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Defunding Science Due To DEI: What It Means for Canada · How To Protect The Ocean

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  This episode is a rant.
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  And it's a rant about defunding science
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  due to DEI programs.
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  We have a Canadian election going on,
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  a federal Canadian
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  election going on here in Canada.
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  And there's been talk
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  on the conservative side
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  about defunding programs
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  within Canadian context
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  like funding agencies that
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  have to do with DEI programs.
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  This is not good for science.
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  This is not good for
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  elevating communities
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  that need to be elevated
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  and making science better
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  here in Canada.
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  We're going to talk
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  about that on today's episode
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  of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  Let's start the show.
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  Hey everybody, welcome back
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  to another exciting episode
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  of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  I am your host, Andrew Lewin.
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  And this is the podcast where we find out
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  what's happening with the ocean,
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  how you can speak up for the ocean,
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  and what you can do to
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  live for a better ocean
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  by taking action.
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  Now in today's episode, we're going to be
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  talking about politics.
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  Politics and science to be specific,
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  and also looking at DEI programs.
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  This is not going to be
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  like a hugely political post,
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  but there is a Canadian
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  federal election that's going on.
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  And one of the parties, the
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  conservative party leader,
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  Pierre Poliev came out last week
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  talking about defunding science,
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  I guess projects and science grants
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  based on DEI initiatives.
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  This is scary to me because I don't know
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  if it's trying to end
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  quote unquote woke ism,
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  or if it's just trying to use that as an
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  excuse to defund science.
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  Either way, both is bad.
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  And we're going to talk
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  about why that's bad today.
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  And we're going to be talking about also
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  how Canada can separate itself
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  from our neighbors down south in terms of
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  their thought process.
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  I've always felt that Canada as a
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  Canadian growing up here in Canada,
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  we have really changed our tune in terms,
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  especially when it comes to human rights.
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  We voted on the approval and the
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  institution of marriage for LGBTQ plus
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  people a long time ago.
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  Unfortunately, that's come back and we
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  see a lot of hateful things
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  said against LGBTQ community.
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  We're also seeing, we've seen the
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  advancement of DEI
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  initiatives within this country,
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  although it's not perfect by any means,
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  but we've seen that advancement.
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  And now we're starting to see the talk of
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  woke ism and being woke and DEI all being
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  lumped in the middle as a bad thing,
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  you know, where it's which I find really
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  crazy because all it's trying to do is
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  put everybody on the same plane by
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  lifting up communities that haven't been
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  lifted up before or haven't had the
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  chance or the
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  opportunity to be lifted up before.
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  So it's it's putting everybody on a
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  similar plane by a similar plane by like
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  just basically lifting this up.
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  This episode is going
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  to be a bit of a rant.
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  It's not going to be edited.
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  I'm putting this out last minute.
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  I had an episode.
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  Truthfully, I had an episode already
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  planned about the U.S.
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  and their energy policy that's coming out
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  about rolling back, you know, policies
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  and regulations and laws so that they can
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  really put forward on drilling oil and
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  gas and lessening the green energy like
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  wind power offshore.
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  Not fun, but where you'll you'll hear
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  that on Wednesday because today I wanted
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  to talk about this dei initiative and
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  defunding science that have dei policies.
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  It within the federal government that
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  federal government kind of put together,
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  which is a lot of academic and a lot of
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  nonprofit organizations that are working
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  on not only oceans, but just nature in
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  general and wildlife biology and
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  conservation biology in general as law as
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  well as medical and all
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  social science and so forth.
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  There's a lot of science that gets funded
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  through these programs, but we need to
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  talk about today because the party that
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  could be as like the party in power for
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  Canada is the conservative party is
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  putting together this.
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  They've proposed this plan to defund
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  science based on whether that
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  program has a dei initiative.
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  Essentially, that's
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  essentially what they want to do.
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  One of the things that they want to do
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  and it's not the I hate to say it, but
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  it's not the biggest issue that's in the
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  the overall issues like the economy,
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  tariffs, sovereignty of Canada, you know,
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  the fact that we want our independence on
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  oil and gas that we're not
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  just selling it to the US.
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  There's a lot of stuff that's happening
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  in Canada and this as well as the
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  environment unfortunately does not get
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  the attention that it deserves.
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  It may not be what everybody wants to
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  talk about or vote on when
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  we're looking at this election.
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  However, this is important to me is
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  important to the people who are in Canada
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  who listen to this podcast and I want to
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  make it clear about what they want to do
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  what the conservative party have proposed
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  to do because I feel like today is the
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  day, you know, where
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  it's the last day to vote.
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  You know, you got to put in your vote.
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  Everybody go vote doesn't matter who you
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  vote for, but everybody go vote.
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  But understand what this party wants to
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  do to our scientific grant and funding
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  agencies and what it's going to limit and
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  how bad that's going to be.
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  So first off, you know, Pierre Poliev,
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  who's the leader of the Canadian
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  Conservative Party, has led, has pledged
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  to eliminate what he terms as woke
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  ideology from the federal research
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  funding, particularly targeting policies
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  related to equity, diversity and
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  inclusion, EDI or DEI as many people
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  refer to in science and academia.
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  So this stance has raised concerns among
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  academic institutions and researchers who
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  emphasize the importance of DEI in
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  fostering inclusion and innovative
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  research environments.
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  So this is what's essentially happened in
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  the past before the initiatives happen.
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  There is a big push and a lot of demand
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  for making sure that granting agencies
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  and funding agencies from the federal
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  government would disperse the money
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  equally through like a DEI initiatives,
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  essentially making sure that the money
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  went to a diverse, make sure that it was
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  equal and there was equity in the
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  distribution of the funds as well as it
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  makes sure it's inclusive to everybody.
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  So it's not just people who look like me
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  who are getting these funds, which was
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  happening, whether we like it or not,
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  that was happening back in the 70s, 80s,
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  probably even before that 70, 90s, 2000s.
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  It's still probably happening today.
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  And so what the federal government did
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  was put in these DEI initiatives so that
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  programs that were applying this, so
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  whether it be academic or whether it be
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  nonprofit or any kind of non governmental
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  organizations, if they wanted to get
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  access to this funding, they had to prove
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  that they're following DEI policies.
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  So that they had DEI policies that they
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  would follow and they had to prove that
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  they were doing this.
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  Now, this doesn't mean that only grants
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  went to minorities or people of color or
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  people in sort of marginalized
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  communities, whether it be gender
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  communities or whether it be cultural
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  communities or race communities.
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  It didn't it didn't matter is everybody
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  was on the same playing field, right?
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  And even though, you know, the science
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  was still great and everything was great.
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  They wanted to make sure that it was
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  still on the same playing field.
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  And that's great. It
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  really worked out great.
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  So essentially what happened is the
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  federal grants incorporating DEI
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  policies, they had several major funding
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  programs administered by Canada's
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  tri-agency, which is comprising of NSERC,
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  SHRC, which is social sciences and NSERC
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  is natural sciences.
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  And then there's CIHR, which to be
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  honest, I'm not too sure what it was, but
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  I think it has to do more with health, I
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  think is more where it comes from.
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  But then they had to have integrated DEI
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  considerations into their frameworks.
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  They had to have equity, diversity and
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  inclusion, institutional
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  capacity building grant.
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  So that was one of the grants.
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  They aims to identify and eliminate
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  systemic barriers that impede the career
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  advancement of
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  underrepresented groups in academia.
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  New Frontiers Research Fund and FRF
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  requires applicants to demonstrate a
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  commitment to DEI in their research
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  practice and team compositions.
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  Canada's excellence research here.
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  So these are research chairs that are
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  like heads of departments, essentially
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  looking at in academia.
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  And this is NSERC and I think two more,
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  two more different ones.
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  I can't remember now, but mandates
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  institutions to maintain up to date
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  equity plans and promote diversity in
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  research leadership.
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  And then the Vanier Canada Graduate
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  Scholarships and Banting Postdoctoral
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  Fellowships include DEI considerations in
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  their selection criteria
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  to attract diverse talent.
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  So these programs reflect a broader
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  governmental commitment to fostering
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  inclusive research environments that
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  leverage diverse perspectives to enhance
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  scientific inquiry and innovation.
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  So here's the thing.
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  When you look at science, when you look
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  at nature, and I've said this a number of
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  times, diversity matters, right?
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  The fact that if you have a diverse
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  environment, I'd say a marine habitat, if
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  it was diverse, if it had coral reefs, it
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  had seagrasses, if it had mangroves, it
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  made it a stronger environment because
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  all those habitats contribute to not only
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  diversity of species by having a habitat
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  that can house all these types of diverse
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  species, but it also like if one of those
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  species is gone of the
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  same like functional group.
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  So say they're like reef builders, then
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  you know that there's if there's multiple
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  species within that same functional
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  group, you know, if one species is
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  extirpated, so is gone from that area for
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  whatever reason, there are others that
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  can do still the same function.
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  Right. But if you only had one species in
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  that functional group, and that species
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  disappears from that habitat, then that
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  function is gone. And that could affect
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  the entire dynamic of the marine habitat.
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  So diversity in nature is important,
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  you're looking even from genetic
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  diversity, if you have a species that's
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  in that's endangered, and you have you
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  preserve a number of the different
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  genetics of the diversity of genetics, so
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  a number of different genetic makeup, you
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  know that if you ever have to repopulate
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  that population, you know that if you
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  have a diverse set of genes in each
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  species or each population, then that
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  diversity will will survive longer
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  because just the process of natural science,
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  just the process of natural selection,
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  one particular set of genes could survive
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  better than another particular set of
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  genes. And so having those sets of genes
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  work together and be able to say which of
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  the populations are going to survive
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  based on a genetic diversity, that's
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  really important. So we have proof that
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  genetic diversity, just diversity in
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  general, from a species, from a genetic
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  level, from a species level, from a
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  habitat level, from an ecosystem level,
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  makes the environment stronger.
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  It makes it stronger. So remember that.
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  Now when you're talking about a team, a
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  team makes it stronger, like if diversity
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  makes and inclusion, making sure
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  everybody's included, make sure that
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  everything is stronger. Take football, I
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  love football, draft is on as I'm
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  recording this, it's great to see all
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  these different positions really matter.
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  If you have a strong O line, an offensive
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  line, your offense is going to be great.
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  If you have great receivers, your offense
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  is going to be great. If you and your
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  quarterback is going to be great because
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  you have a great offensive line. They
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  allow for the quarterback to have the
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  time to decide which
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  receiver to throw to.
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  If you don't have a good offensive line,
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  defensive lines comes in, they sack the
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  quarterback, you can't throw, you don't
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  have, you basically have a crappy
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  offense. You don't want a crappy offense.
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  But having each or one of those groups be
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  good or be solid, right? And having a
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  diverse set of good, strong positions and
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  positional groups, you are
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  going to have a better team.
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  But if you don't have those strong
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  positional groups or you're missing a
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  positional group, you're not very good.
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  Case in point, a couple years ago, my San
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  Francisco 49ers were in the NFC
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  Championship playing the Philadelphia
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  Eagles. The winner goes on to play Kansas
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  City Chiefs for the second time in a row
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  for the Niners. Niners had
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  just gotten to the Super Bowl.
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  Okay, so now they're going against a
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  great team. They're a great team. They
• 1:12:08
  lose their quarterback in the first
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  quarter, second quarter. Lose him. He
• 1:12:13
  can't throw anymore. He can only run. And
• 1:12:17
  even then, he's hurting. His arm is UCL
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  is basically torn. Can't throw far, can't
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  throw it all. They don't have another
• 1:12:23
  quarterback because all their
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  quarterback's got to do.
• 1:12:25
  One more quarterback, he goes in, he gets
• 1:12:26
  a concussion, he's out of the game. They
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  don't have any more quarterbacks. They
• 1:12:29
  have to use their running back as a
• 1:12:30
  quarterback. And all they do is run the
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  ball. They can't run and throw because
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  they don't have the quarterback. They're
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  losing that diversity.
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  Right? They lost that positional group
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  that actually makes it matter. I'm taking
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  this analogy way too far. Draft is on
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  really hot in my head. But you get the
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  point. The point is that diversity,
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  making sure that everybody's included,
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  making sure that everything
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  is like the equity is there.
• 1:12:53
  Everybody's on the same page. You get a
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  stronger team. You get a stronger science
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  team. You get a stronger lab. You get
• 1:13:02
  stronger policies and journal articles
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  and everything. You're getting people,
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  especially when you look at culture and
• 1:13:08
  you look at gender, you're getting people
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  from looking at different sides.
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  And especially when you're looking at
• 1:13:13
  conservation and science, you have to
• 1:13:15
  have people with different perspectives.
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  It challenges the sciences more. And
• 1:13:19
  having those different perspectives,
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  those diverse perspectives, you end up
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  having better science because of it.
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  It's not just from one culture, one
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  gender. It's from everything. So having
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  that different group, yes, you may get
• 1:13:32
  challenged at certain times, but having
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  all those different groups, the
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  challenging makes it better. Science
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  criticisms are what makes things better
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  in science. It's what
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  science is rooted on.
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  And so if you have a team, right, from
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  different cultures, different
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  backgrounds, working together, the
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  science becomes better. It's just how it
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  happens. So taking away DEI initiatives
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  just because of the word DEI or quote
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  unquote woke ideologies takes away the
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  strength of the science.
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  And it goes back 10, 20, 30, 40 years to
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  a time where people who give out the
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  grants can show their biases towards
• 1:14:11
  people who look like me because they
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  think that, you know, people like me only
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  have the education, only have the ability
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  to go forth, which is not true.
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  There are so many other people. If you
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  look at any university, especially now in
• 1:14:23
  Canada, it is so diverse. There are so
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  many people who are brilliant, who are
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  intelligent, who are hardworking, who are
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  ready to do conservation, whether it be
• 1:14:32
  in the marine realm
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  or the wildlife realm.
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  And they are great scientists and they're
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  going to be great scientists, but they
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  can't be great scientists if they don't
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  get the same opportunity
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  as people who look like me.
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  That's really what it comes down to. So
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  having a platform, a political platform
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  where the conservative party who have a
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  chance of getting into power, all the
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  polls say suggests
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  otherwise, but you never know.
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  It's going to be a close race. Say that,
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  hey, you know what? Like, we're just
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  going to take this DEI initiative away.
• 1:15:00
  We're going to go back to what we were
• 1:15:01
  doing before because we
• 1:15:02
  did it better. Now we didn't.
• 1:15:04
  There's no suggestion that we did things
• 1:15:06
  better back then when
• 1:15:07
  we didn't have the ideas.
• 1:15:09
  But making sure that funding is canceled
• 1:15:12
  for any DNI initiatives could also cancel
• 1:15:14
  funding for science in general. We know
• 1:15:16
  the conservatives are anti climate
• 1:15:18
  change. We know that they tend
• 1:15:20
  to be anti environment anyway.
• 1:15:23
  So it's not going to go towards like
• 1:15:25
  encircles those natural science types of
• 1:15:27
  of funding programs or social science
• 1:15:31
  where you have to include a lot of
• 1:15:33
  different groups, local groups,
• 1:15:34
  indigenous groups in this
• 1:15:36
  process for conservation.
• 1:15:39
  Who knows better than to take care of
• 1:15:41
  North America than
• 1:15:42
  Canada than indigenous people.
• 1:15:45
  Right. And so, but if we take it away
• 1:15:47
  where we're not making sure that each
• 1:15:49
  team in each institution or each
• 1:15:51
  nonprofit organization or whoever's
• 1:15:52
  getting that recipient of
• 1:15:54
  that of that money that funding.
• 1:15:56
  Now we have nothing, right? We start to
• 1:15:59
  lose those groups. They're not included
• 1:16:01
  in those groups. And we start getting
• 1:16:02
  back into parachute science. We start
• 1:16:04
  getting back into more
• 1:16:05
  selfish science and it's not good.
• 1:16:07
  Collaboration is key. DIs part of that.
• 1:16:10
  Whether you want to call it D I or not,
• 1:16:11
  you still have to do it. And there's
• 1:16:12
  still an opportunity to do that for every
• 1:16:14
  institution. Right. To say, you know
• 1:16:16
  what, we're just going to continue our
• 1:16:18
  programs. We just may
• 1:16:18
  name it something different.
• 1:16:20
  But we're going to continue our programs,
• 1:16:21
  but it takes away from people who may
• 1:16:23
  have some opportunity. And that's what I
• 1:16:25
  want to talk about today. So here's
• 1:16:27
  what's going to happen. Essentially, the
• 1:16:28
  implications of this proposal is that
• 1:16:30
  peer poly has proposal to eliminate
• 1:16:31
  funding tied to any kind of quote unquote
• 1:16:33
  woke policies has sparked debate within the academic community.
• 1:16:37
  Critics are quit critics argue that such
• 1:16:40
  a move could undermine efforts to address
• 1:16:42
  historical inequities in academia and
• 1:16:45
  diminish the quality of and relevant of
• 1:16:47
  Canadian research at the global stage.
• 1:16:50
  Supporters, however, contend that
• 1:16:51
  research funding should be allocated
• 1:16:53
  based solely on scientific merit without
• 1:16:55
  considerations of identity politics.
• 1:16:57
  Here's the problem with that. We tried to
• 1:16:59
  do that before and it didn't work.
• 1:17:01
  We tried to do that before and we saw
• 1:17:03
  biases. Hence why we put in these D I
• 1:17:05
  policies. That's why we're putting it in.
• 1:17:08
  It wasn't working like that before.
• 1:17:10
  Everybody's like, well, should be on
• 1:17:11
  scientific merit. Yes, it should be.
• 1:17:14
  But when you look at the recipients back
• 1:17:16
  in the day, we're starting to, we started
• 1:17:18
  to see the biases. It was all white
• 1:17:20
  people, white men. We know this is a
• 1:17:22
  problem. We knew this is a problem. We
• 1:17:24
  did studies on this. And now you're just
• 1:17:25
  taking it away because people are sick of
• 1:17:27
  hearing about welcome D.
• 1:17:28
  I guess who's sick about it. Yes, guess
• 1:17:31
  the people who are sick about it. It
• 1:17:32
  drives me nuts to see this. And yes, I
• 1:17:35
  agree that some policies go way too far
• 1:17:38
  to the other extreme. We need to find in
• 1:17:41
  the middle, but it's should still be on
• 1:17:43
  scientific merit, but making sure that
• 1:17:44
  everybody's included.
• 1:17:47
  Part of the D.I. Make sure it's diverse.
• 1:17:49
  Make sure it works. Make sure you're
• 1:17:50
  getting different perspectives. Make sure
• 1:17:52
  that teams are built based on diversity,
• 1:17:55
  equity and inclusion.
• 1:17:58
  That's all I have to say today. And so
• 1:18:00
  take that in mind if that's something
• 1:18:02
  that's important to you when you actually
• 1:18:04
  go and vote today for my
• 1:18:06
  Canadian audience here.
• 1:18:07
  Because I think it's important. I'd love
• 1:18:09
  to hear your thoughts. Let me know in the
• 1:18:11
  comments below if you're watching this on
• 1:18:12
  YouTube or hit me up on Instagram at how
• 1:18:15
  to protect the ocean. That's
• 1:18:16
  at how to protect the ocean.
• 1:18:18
  Just DM me or if you want to email me, go
• 1:18:19
  to speak up for blue dot com. Hit the
• 1:18:21
  contact page that goes right to fill out
• 1:18:23
  the form that goes right into my inbox.
• 1:18:26
  Good luck with the voting. I hope a
• 1:18:29
  certain party wins. I'm not going to tell
• 1:18:30
  you who you can kind of tell.
• 1:18:31
  But regardless, you know, go vote
• 1:18:34
  exercise your vote to win and let's just
• 1:18:36
  keep making sure that science is funded
• 1:18:38
  for everybody, not just for one
• 1:18:40
  particular person or identity.
• 1:18:43
  Thank you so much for joining me on
• 1:18:44
  today's episode of the how to protect the
• 1:18:45
  ocean podcast. I'm your host, Angelou and
• 1:18:47
  have a great day. We'll talk to you next
• 1:18:48
  time and happy conservation.