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28 - Bloodmoon & Tribunal Chat: Solstheim, Werewolves, Mournhold · Mythic Mind Games

• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Tyler, since you were here last time, whyn't you tell
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: us a little bit about yourself and what brings it here.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm Tyler, So I'm mental health counselor in
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the state of Iowa. So I guess what brought me
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: here was, Well, I love the older scrolls. My introduction
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: to the game was Oblivion. I played that at a
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: friend's house in the middle of the night in two
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: thousand and six, thousand and seven and kind of fell
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: in love with that at that point, and then you know,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: from there probably played a lot more Skyrim. So marlow
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Wind is a much newer to me because I'm kind
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: of just started playing it this year or so, but
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I was really you know, it's been on the thing
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: to do for a long time. But yeah, it's it's.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Nice excuse to get in it. So that's interesting. A
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: lot of people have a hard time jumping into morrowind
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: and twenty twenty five, So what's that been like for you?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Was your experience getting to this game after starting with
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the others.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Well, it's a nice change of pace, so I always
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: it's always kind of sometimes disappointing with like the Skyrims
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: and the Oblivions. Is how just you're kind of one track.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: You're just kind of going to the marker, you know,
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: and doing the thing. And it was nice to be
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: able to read stuff and kind of do more exploring
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and kind of taking your time. It's the it's the
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: it's the adult in you that kind of gets that
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: a little more, you know, percolated by that.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, Marowin is the sophisticated man's game, right, the intellectuals game.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's true. We talk about this lot time
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: that once you get to Oblivion and Skyrim, I mean,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: you don't even have to read anything. You just follow
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a little quest markers, you fast travel everywhere. Well, yeah, Morlan,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: you have to be intentional. You have to read about
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: where it is that you're going. Even if you want
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: to cheat in like up a walkthrough, you shall at
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: least read stuff. So not everything just handed to you.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think that there's something genuinely wholesome
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: about that. It is something like reading a book, not
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: necessarily the same, but something like it. And I think
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: that that that is something that we're missing from our
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: modern game experience, which is all just flash and go
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and don't pay attention to anything. So that's good. So
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: how have you adapted to just like the somewhat dated mechanics.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Constant commands, because I was trying to get through the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: game to be because I just started playing like a
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, and so I'm trying to at
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: least get going a little bit. But I've got sais.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: I got stuck and you know, doing like the major
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: skilled prest line, and I was like, I'm never going
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: to get to anything because the way I play these
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: games is I get stuck on one thing and then
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: I'm just like I have to finish this now until
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I move on to the next thing. And so I
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: just ended up, especially for the Tribunal and blood Moon,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: it was watching walkthroughs of it because that was the
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: only way I'm going to be able to get through
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: this at this point. But I'm really excited to actually
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: play it once I get to it, because it was
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: a very enjoyable few few hours of not flying through it.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: Click hit till the mouse, click on chest, type, unlock,
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: press enter, yeah, TGM right.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those console commands. It's a dangerous game. Once you
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: get started, everything becomes so easy. It's a pretty slope. Cool. Well,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: so today we're focusing in on blood Moon and Tribunal.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Let's see which ones we'll get to first. I guess ye,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: maybe blood Moon first, since Tribunal kind of takes place
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I think after the main story, or you can do
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: it whenever, but I've from my understanding this sort of one.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: It's supposed to happen now. I am, as I mentioned,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I've fallen a little bit behind here in my prep work,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: and I'm featuring eight classes institutionally right now, so I'm
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: just kind of overloaded. But my plan is to get
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: caught up in time for Oblivion. So right now, I'm
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: kind of relying on memory at this point, which is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: a little little foggy. But you know, with with blood Moon,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: this is one of my favorite Elder Scrolls expansions altogether.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: My favorite Elder Scrolls expansion goes to Shippering Aisles obviously,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: but this is definitely up there. Yeah, this was definitely
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: up there. I don't know. I like the northern vibe.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I like the the which I mean obviously get all
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: that in Skyrim, but it's kind of different when it
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: is alien to the alien world that is Vardenfeld, that
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: that that is more wind, and so it kind of
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: stands out for that reason that contrast, and then you know,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: like the Werewolves. You know, I like a good werewolf story.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: You got the interplay between the Imperials and the Skull
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: the Native Nords. I just I don't know a lot
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: of things to hear that that really interests me. But
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I want to hear some of your thoughts where you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: played the game or watch the video or whatever. I
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: don't know, what are some some of your initial thoughts
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: kind of wherever you want to go with this on
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Blood Moon.
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: I'll be honest, I I think I remember Blood Moon
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: lot more than I remember Tribunal, But like I got
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: the expansions, but also was starting college about the same time,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: so I don't remember a whole lot because I went
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: from you know, playing more single player games to like
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: playing a lot of agent employers too with my roommates.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't until after I got at out of
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: undergrad and was kind of living on my own again
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: that I sort of got back into the Elder Scrolls.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate the intensity of it. When
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you get to the shore of the Soul sigme, you
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: have this understanding that things are kind of going wrong. There.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: That's why you go there, and immediately the captain of
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the guard, the captain of the fort, you know, has
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: everything is going to ruin here. You know, the empire's
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: losing his foothold. We've got descent among my own ranks.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: There's smugglers, there's werewolves, There's all sorts of stuff just
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: going wrong here. And so you're just entering into the
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: chaos trying to bring about order. And then that order
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: chaos dialectic feeds directly into the specific issue with with
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: were wolves, right, I mean a wolf. The idea of
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: a were wolf is it's a disordered soul. I mean
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: kind of going back to classical philosophy, I mean Plato,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: especially Aristotle. You know, the other idea that when to
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: be human, it is to have the beastly nature as
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: well as our intellectual nature. Aristotle says that man is
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the rational animal, and so we have this animalistic nature
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: in common with the beast, but we also have this
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: higher intellectual nature. And when our rationality guides are beastly nature,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: well that's when we're in proper order. And so we
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: aren't going to just give way to instincts, to the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: kind of animalistic desires that the actual beasts have because
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: they're ordered in accordance to the rationality. But a disordered
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: soul prioritizes the beastly unless that lead the rationality. And
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: so now we might still have reason, but it's going
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: to be at service of our base or more beastly instincts.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: And this idea really continues into the medieval period, which
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: is where we start to get more of this werewolf
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: floor starting to pop up, although I would say it
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: kind of matures even after that, But where with this
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: idea of the influences of the heavens like the moon,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: in articular, that the moon is this transition point between
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the order of the heavens and the chaos of Earth.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: And so the moon kind of has this double purpose
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: here of being this balance being order and chaos. And
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: when we are kind of have a misrelation with this
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: lunar influence, we in turn are given over to chaos
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: and that beastly nature takes over. But what's really interesting
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: is that just as they believed that the moon can
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: instill lunacy, right, lunar lunacy, it comes from this misrelation
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: with the lunar influence. It's what lunacy is, and so
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: even as the moon can cause lunacy, also it's the
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: moon that produces silver in the earth, according to the
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: medieval understanding, and so it's like the very source of
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: our lunacy is also the cure. And so there's this
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: a lot of really interesting philosophical stuff wrapped up in
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the myth of werewolves, and I think that a lot
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: of that comes out in the specific werewolf story of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Blood Moon, as well as the broader idea of the
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: expansion of we're going to enter into chaos and bring
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a fourth order. In fact, even you that the main character,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: you know, you you contract lecanthropy and so you kind
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: of have to descend into the beastly in order to
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: rise back up. So that there's a lot of stuff
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: going in here. I can probably monologue too long, but.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think I heard that about silver, that
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: the moon was supposed to have put silver into the ground.
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: But that's interesting, that's an interesting uh.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. In the medieval in the medieval cosmology, they
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: believe they each of the planets, that the wanderers that
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: you know, they have some kind of influence on Earth,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: and and that includes on a very physical level that
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: each of them is associated with producing some kind of
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: metal in the earth, and so there's some connections to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: alchemy involved here. And so uh yeah, the moon I mean,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: which naturally enough, I mean it's it's silver colored, it
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: produces silver in the earth. Yes, yeah, I do you
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: find that really interesting? That that really just struck me
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: when I first discovered that that the very source of
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: leacanthropy is also the cure is that interplay between order
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and chaos, which which we even talked about last time
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: in relation to the story of Morowind.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: So does Mars produce iron?
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: Then?
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, so a lot of this it's kind of
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: common sense.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Which is interesting too because it's red and probably a
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: lot of iron oxide on the surface.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Right, And so yeah, the Mars produces iron, which is
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: also of course a weapon of warfare. Yeah, I for
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: a time, and I still find it super interesting. But
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I got really into this medieval cosmology by means of
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: teaching C. S.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Lewis. H I gotta find that book.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I definitely recommend picking up The Discarded Image by by C. S. Lewis.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: It's uh, it's it's a remarkable text on the medieval
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: as well as early Renaissance worldview.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Isn't even like it wasn't there's someone who wrote a
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: book that kind of look back over the chronicles of
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Narnia and like period each one up to a planet.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, the there's planet Narnia or sometimes that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the Narnia Code. That's like one's a dissertation level once
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: more popular level. But yeah, and so he in Planet Narnia.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: He goes through and connects each book of the Narniad,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: as he calls it, to a planetary influence in the
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: medieval cosmology. And you know, I know this is taking
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: us a little bit a far of Elder Scrolls, but no,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: it's fine. Once you start talking Lewis, it's very easy
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: for me to get off track.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Just very good about Rabbit Trails as my high school
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Sunday school teacher.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the well, maybe maybe I should cut
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: off there. I'm going to go too long on Narnia now,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: So we pulled back to Elder Scrolls.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: I was thinking about. So you were kind of talking
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: about how like you have like the the the duality
• 12:00
  Speaker 4: of like the moon gives us lunacy, but the moon
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: also gives us like silver, and like these other things,
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: and it kind of I guess the first thing that
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: came to mind. It's not even though it's not like
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: immediately pertinent to blood Moon, like like only tangentially. So
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: it makes me think of the duality of Acotash kind
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: of where like so like so like in so like
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: in the so pertinent to this, you know, for the
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: nord So in the Nordic pantheon, Acotash is aldouin you
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: know who is you know, who is the world eater.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: So so it kind of it kind of makes there's
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: a kind of sense in kind of like these two
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: faces where like you know, where Akatosh is kind of
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: like this ordered god of time, but as kind of
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: like the god of time, like he would also probably
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: be like the end of time as well.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's a a good point, and that also
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: very much connects with this medieval cosmology talking about that
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: each of the planetary influences kind of has a duality
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to it, in that the influence themselves it is good,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: but it can be received positively or negatively, or it
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: can manifest itself in this earth positively or negatively. Because
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: we live in a world that is inherently given over
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: to chaos, the earth is given over to chaos. And
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: so as these influences manifest themselves in our sub lunar sphere.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: To use the medieval language, that can manifest itself positively
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: or negatively. And so Saturn, for example, is associated with
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: decay and sickness and age, but is also associated with
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the kind of wisdom that the kind of like penitential
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: wisdom is the kind of wisdom that you get from
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: this momento moray idea of because of my relationship with death,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to let that consume me, but I'm
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: actually going to let it propel me toward genuine life.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: And so all of these things can manifest themselves in
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: one way or the other. So too, God of Time
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: can manifest himself as well, that which allows for movement
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: as well as that which ends movement, and so that
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: that is an interesting connection that I am fully considered.
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: There's like there's like a whole thing there. I think
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: we're better We're better off saving it for like you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: more appropriate Skyrim discussions. But there's like there's like a whole.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: There's like a whole like Tirae. You could go on
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: with Akatoash and Allowin and all that stuff. What's probably
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: more pertinent to blood Moon is and the order and
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: chaos thing is you have the the so uh, whoever
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: whoever recommended the Bard channel for like the blood Moon
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Let's play, thank you so much. That really helped me out.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: This was that was really it was really crazy. It's
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: been a really crazy week. Sorry, can't get the words out.
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: So that that really really helped me out. And the
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: thing that really the thing that really struck me as
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: kind of like the perfect little microcosm of blood Moon
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: was the story of of our Stone Singer and you
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: with the you have like the all Maker and and
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: the Greedy Man as kind of like these two as
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: kind of like the these order and chaos forces that
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: are kind of like you know, they're they're kind of
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: like you know, they're they're they're kind of like uh,
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: warring for like control of the land and the people,
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: you know. Uh. And how like I saw some I
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: saw like some I've been trying to read up a
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: little bit on that, so I've seen like some some
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: Annu and Padame parallels with all Maker and Greedy Man,
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: also sometimes called the adversary, the adversary, what a what
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: an interesting name, right, guys, and uh, so ani would padame.
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: But also there's kind of there, there's somebody made a
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: really interesting analogy to like in the case in the
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: context of the Blood Moons Mansion, that maybe the you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: the Empire could be interpreted as the greedy man. I
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. I can't comment on it because I haven't
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: watched it yet, but it sounds very interesting.
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: And the the the a and uh kind of like
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: you know, A bar Stone Singer is kind of like
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: a could also be interpreted as a stand in for
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: the players he as he goes to help the people
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: to the skulls. Cool.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds cool. I'm gonna have to check that
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: out for anyone else listening. What was that channel?
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: What was it was that barred? I can't remember. I
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: recommended it and I can't remember the Bard's Ballad is the.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: Cool? I'll have to I'm gonna send I'm gonna send
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: you a direct link to the A bar Stone Singer story.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Perfect. Yeah, I'll make sure I include that all right now? Yeah,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess kind of what else I said,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I'm drawing on a memory here, I don't I'm not
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: quite sure what else we're missing. I know that basically
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: your your character. After you start to kind of put
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: some things in order in the fort, you find out
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: that the soldiers are getting restless because this other guy
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: who is basically trying to get the operation closed down
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: so you can leave soul Sime that he's been taking
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: all the alcohol and making it a dry for it,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: which is making the people a little restless discontent, you know,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: you deal with there's some smugglers going on, like and
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: so basically once you start to do some things, then
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the fort gets attacked by were wolves, and so then
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: you have to go seek out the Skull to get
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: some more information about what's going on here. You know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: maybe they're responsible, but of course you find out there
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: they're not. Well, their leader is he's a little suspect.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: There's some involvement, right, There's some involvement. But yeah, so
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and then you you have to go and do all
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: these different quests at the different ritual stones as a
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: way of and I'll bring bounce to the force or something.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, I don't know what what am
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: I missing here?
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know like again, like so like I'm one
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: of those people who's kind of like guilty of uh
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: not playing blood moon, but I I have. But what
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: was interesting to me was like with with the story
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: of Avar Stone Singer, which is I guess just to
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: give it, just to give like a super quick rundown.
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: The greedy man basically steals like everything from the people
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: you get from the people of the land. Like he
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: takes like you know, he he takes like you know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: the uh he takes the sea, he takes you know,
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: he takes the sea, he takes the light, he takes
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: the end. I don't remember exactly, but he basically takes
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: like all of the element right that are needed for
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: people to live. And so you have all of the
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: villagers gathering around saying who will go, like who will go?
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: And like save us and you know, bring bring back
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: all the things that we need to live, you know,
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: from the greedy man, like the you know, all of
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: these things which are the all makers gifts, and you
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: have kind of you know and you have you know,
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: the elder says, I cannot go for I must stay
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: to lead the skull, you know, and tell our people
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: of the law. I cannot go, says the warrior. I
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: must protect the skull. My sword will be needed in
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: case the greedy man reappears. I cannot go, says a shaman,
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: for the people need my wisdom, and I must read
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: the portents and offer my knowledge. It was then that
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: a young man called Avar lifted up his voice. He
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: was strong of arm and fleet of foot, and though
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: he was not yet a warrior or a skull, he said,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: I will go. I am not a warrior, you know,
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: I'm not a shaman. I'm not a leader, you know,
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: like I will you know, if anything happens to me,
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: I will not be missed. So he sacrifices himself basically
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: to and he goes on a series of trials which
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: involve like kind of like all of these stones, very
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: similar to what the player does to get all to
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: get all of these you know, the the land, the animals,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: the sea, you know just what everything you know back
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: from back from the greedy man. And there seems to
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: be an interesting little parallel going on between Abor and
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: the player there. M.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: It's kind of interesting that you know, you said that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: there could be an on new potome dynamic play here.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: But potentially the I mean, could could the empire be
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: the greedy man because and there's something about the imperial
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: influence here is what is kind of bringing chaos to
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: the land.
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: There seems to be some speculation there, like in the
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: community that's that's that's definitely like an interpretation, and I
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: think like a very valid one, and it it almost
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: seems kind of like on the nose too, like it's
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: it seems it seems like it seems very like it
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: seems very intentional that for those who are like carefully
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: reading this, they kind of want you to think, you know,
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: is the empire, Like is the empire the greedy man here?
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: That's not what empires are known for.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: Definitely not greedy colonizers or anything coming Yeah, you know,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: peaceful people.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's definitely some anti talking about Sorry, they're
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: definitely sorry, no you could. There's definitely some anti colonialism
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: at play here. But at the same time, I appreciate
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: they don't really treat the empire as purely evil, especially
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: they don't treat all the individuals as evil and Sue
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: I can appreciate the balance that they're trying to make here.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: It's more sophisticated point than all of one group is good,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: all the other group is bad.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Right, you can really call the Dunmer that's the dark helves, right, Yeah,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: I like they're exactly the good guys and more Wind.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about that last time. Like the entire people,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the entire island, it's all cloaked in darkness, Like there's
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: just a dread that kind of hangs over the whole peo.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so I I appreciate what they're trying to
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: do there in that relationship between the Empire and the Skull.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: It's not all or nothing situation, which I mean, I
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: think that's pretty realistic, right, it's not all or nothing.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like that if that story we're being told today,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it might be told it a little bit differently. But yeah,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I appreciate what they what they did with that.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: There are some writers today like like like and and
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: I'm speaking and I'm speaking especially like you know, to
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: games because that's you know, I'm I'm a gamer. But
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: there are some writers that are still tackling those topics
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: with that degree of nuance. But I agree, like it's
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: becoming very like I would say, broadly speaking, it's becoming
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: a little it's becoming a little lopsided in a in
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: a clumsy way, especially in a clumsy way as opposed
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: to like a more you know, in a more like
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: you know nuance. Oh, you know, people and organizations are
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: actually pretty complicated.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: M right, Yeah, I mean I don't I can't think
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: of much else someone for Bloodmoon. Do any of you
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: have anything to mention?
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say kind of the main
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: thing that I pulled from it was kind of similar
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: things I've already been kind of discussed, was ordering chaos,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: you know, because the Skull and the all Maker really
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: really present that kind of order, because you know, the
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Skull very much like our stewards of the land. They
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: will work in unison with the land and then pretty
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: much any adversary. And you know, I really enjoyed it
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: because you can see the adversarias like in here seeing
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and Hermanus more like these reports, these dagra representations of
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: chaos trying to steal and take from them specifically, and
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: it I find it interesting, like the one kind of
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: more like monotheistic culture has a lot of adversaries specific
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: for it in this in the Elder Scrolls, because you know,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: most of these cultures are very diverse and they're pantheons,
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: whereas they all are very specific, and it's it's interesting
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: to see all the adversaries that are coming at them
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: specifically try and disrupt their harmony they have. It's like
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: it's like they have something more than the rest of
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: these others do. And I I just kind of then
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: and then you go into this, you know, Skull deep dive,
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: which is very limited because there's not really much going
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: on with that, but it was Adam's. Is really interesting
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: seeing that kind of play.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Now. I haven't yet really dug into the Skull religion
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: other than knowing that they serve that the all Maker.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Now does this All Maker? Does it map onto the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: other kind of broader Elder Scrolls mythology, like who is
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: their all Maker analogous to?
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: At least I was looking that up, trying to answer
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: that question for myself, and I actually had at least
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: and I didn't have I didn't have a lot of
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: time to do it tonight. But there's that there doesn't
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: seem to be there doesn't seem to be a very
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: straightforward answer to that, like the so like the closest
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: analogy that I could find in my brief So I've
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: got like I've got like twelve tabs open now, by
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: the way, and like just just trying to pull up
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: the right thing that's pertinent to right now is just
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: making me like my eyes are crossing slightly. But my
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: initial findings show that the All Maker doesn't really seem
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: to be like he's not Acatash. He's not like you know,
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: he's not acatash, he's not all to win, He's not
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: like you know, this isn't this isn't uh Zenithar, I'm trying.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: I'm trying to remember the names of or Kinterrath ket
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: the one. I'm sorry, Kennterrath I was thinking of. It's
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: not Kennterret. It's like it seems to be like it's
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: it's a very interesting case where you have a god
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: that seems to map specifically to Anu, which like is
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: like which I which you in your you talk to
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: like in your cosmology video. Anu is kind of like
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: more of like a like a like a semi sentient
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: concept like almost uh, but here we kind of have uh,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: it seems to be, you know, initially anyway that the
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: All Maker kind of seems to map on to Anu
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: like a god. That's what I've pulled up so far.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: Who did the the nerds of like Skyrim proper.
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: Worship then, yeah, so so the Nords. Uh so the
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Nords worship uh the Nords worshiped Shore, which was their
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: word for uh Shazar, you know, Czar Lorcan and then
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: lore Con you know, so then and then Shore died.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Shore died, But because it's the Nordic pantheon, like there's
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: like a fragment of Shore that's like still alive and
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: sob and guards. So he's like the god of the dead,
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: but like he's not really worshiped anymore because he's dead,
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Like he's he's acknowledged, he's sworn by, but he's not
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: really like but he but he's he's not really worshiped
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: because he's like he's dead. So the the the the
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: Nordic pantheon seems to be kind of interesting at this
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: point in that it doesn't really seem to have like
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: a a chief god because of Shore's death. But like
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: I also saw references to Kine, which is Kinnereth, which
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: in their in their pantheon. Uh Heine was I believe
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: the wife of Shore, so she's kind of sort of
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: the head. But they're also they're very they are like
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: especially like you know, in the third and fourth era
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: they are very very big on tallos. Uh So, like
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: I guess to I hope that answers your question.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: It's it's interesting that one hand, the Skull in particular
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: are I mean, there's obviously a lot of influence of
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: like Nordic like real world and Nordic mythology at play here.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, all the all Maker. I mean,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: you know, that's potentially a way of referring to to
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: the all Father, you know, to to Odin who It's
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: very interesting to me at least that even in the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: polytheistic pagan pantheons, that things tend to gravitate in the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: direction of monotheism, even if they're not monotheistic, in the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: direction in that they all have somebody at the top
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: that ultimately everything is directed toward right. And so even
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: though they may have many fathers so to speak, I
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: mean Odin is chiefly he is the father of all.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: He has given attribution for creation, and so I mean
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: the I don't know if there's something like that going
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: on here where the skull. They never correct me if
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong, but do they ever like explicitly say, like
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: we don't worship other gods. I mean, obviously their worship
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: is oriented toward the All Maker, and so maybe there's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: something like this going on here. It'd be a little
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: bit surprising to me if we get just kind of
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: randomly in Tambriel this firm monotheism, Like I mean, I
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: would love to see it, I don't get me wrong,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: but I wouldn't expect that. And so I wonder if
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: that's sort of where we're going, where you know, they
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: kind of worship the one who is at the top,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: and maybe we don't even have a designation for exactly
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: who that is, because like with you know, Onu, at
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: that point, we're going beyond the realm of differentiation, where
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: it's almost like we can't say even this god exist.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: It's almost like this god is existence, and so we
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: don't have terms beyond the one who made stuff.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I would have to go back to Skyrim, the Dragon
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Boord DLC, because part of me kind of thinks that
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: they reference how the difference between like, you know, the
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Nords of Skyrim versus the nerds of you know, the Skull.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So I wonder if there will be a deeper reference
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: to that specifically.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: But I know that.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Also in Skyrim too, there was a there was a
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: a Scholler at the Skull village that was writing a
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: book about the the And I'm pretty sure that was
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: very explicit. That's all Maker adversary, Like that's pretty much
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: the breadth of their you know, yeah.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wish I could find a school to talk to.
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: I was looking. I'm trying. I'm digging through. I'm digging through.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: I'm digging through my stuff right now, Like I thought
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: I found somewhere. I found an interesting little tidbit that like,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: like the the whole all Maker religion is kind of
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: like it is pretty is pretty niche to the Skulls themselves,
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: like it may have been larger at one point but
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: then it kind of shrank, but that they also like
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Skulls have actually jour journeyed out beyond soul Stein to
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: proselytize the all Maker. But I'm trying, but I'm trying
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: to find I'm I'm I'm trying to find that I
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: thought I read that somewhere. I'm trying to find the
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: source for you. Somebody else says something, don'try. I can
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: always cut out silence. That is true the power of
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: editing yes, yes, very nice.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't know that I have much else
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: to say about blood Moon, and so yeah, so I
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: guess we can start to shift gears toward tribunal, which
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: I probably have less to safe that honestly, simply because
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: again I just have and had time to do a proper review.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: I'll get there before I do some videos on it.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: But so this one is interesting. It provides some some
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: good free armor to to sell off to that scamp
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: in Caldera right when the assassins keep attacking you. So
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that's fun. You get your introduction to the Dark Brotherhood,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: and so then you you follow them back to Mornhold,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: the capital of Morowind, where you, as you would expect
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: from the name of the expansion, you deal with some
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: more of the tribunal stuff, where you know, there's this
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: new king who you know, this fraught with problems that
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: you can potentially fix for them, but also at one eventually,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: as you move toward the end, al Molexiam sends you
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: to defeat Sotha sil, the mad god who you know
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: supposedly kind of went crazy, and so you're sent to
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: deal with that. But I know that Sif the Sill
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: was already killed by the very you know, mortal God
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: who sent you to kill him, and so then you
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: have to kill her. And so now by the end
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: of the expansion, now you leave the VEC alone of
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the Tribunal, and so that's kind of fun, unless, of course,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: you take the back door and you killed the VEC
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: as well. Right, that's an option, which we didn't talk
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: about that last time, but I do appreciate that you
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: have that option, that you can kill the VEC and
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: kind of go about things another way. But maybe that's
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: beside the point and any thoughts on Tribunal.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: I don't think I made it out of the building honestly,
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: like the first wherever you spawn into, like I had
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: no idea what was going on, and I didn't have
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: a map even to look at. I kind of wander
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: around for a little bit and then like went back
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: tomorrow Wind and kind of called it a day.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I've only actually beaten this storyline, this
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: gone through this expansion once or maybe twice, so I've
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: not had a lot of personal experience with it, and
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: that's been a while.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I would just say like from an over like over
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: arching lens, you know, being a mental health counselor I'll
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: see things through a psychological view at times here where
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: it's it's interesting looking at you know, because the destruction
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: of the heart of Lorcan is like a big you know,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: catalyst to where the tribunal starts to lose their power.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And it's really interesting to see, you know, Almilexia, who's
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: you know, the mother of Marrowwind, like you know, the
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: love mercy, you know, God take that fall and it
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: just kind of opens the door of like, okay, hold on,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: where was this love rooted? Where was this And it
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: just shows kind of from just like the Hubris standpoint of,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: you know, of the human beings, we kind of get
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: confronted with our mortality in some ways that you know,
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: it's like life shattering at times. And so the more
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: power you have, it's like the more power you can
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: the more destruction you can do. And it's you know,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: I I said, I see it in my practice at
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: times where it's like you've got these you know, paternal figures.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: There's loss in the family, they lose their wife or something,
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: and you could see this complete destruction of the entire
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: family because they're not rooted in anything, and so it
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: was just really interesting to kind of see this played
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: out in a much obviously more cosmic scale with a
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: with a god lower cheek god in this instance, what
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: that wasn't even as what is what is Almo?
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: What what is the tribunal?
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: Then?
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's yeah, and that that is an
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: interesting point, and in my reckoning it's could this potentially
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: be interpret at least as a kind of anti Nietzschean
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: standpoint right right where what the tribunal did is they
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: sought to well, to become the uber men's right, become
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: the over man, to to create their own values, to
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: basically assert their own deity, which is exactly what Nietzsche
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: encourage us to do in you know, the likes of
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: you know, thus spoke Zarathustra, or in this mad Man parable.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: It's this idea that basically there is no God. You know,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: he says we killed God. Of course, what he means
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: is we've killed the idea of God's like he believed
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: God ever actually existed. And so he says that the
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: throne of heaven is empty. And so now basically, the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: the ubermens, those who are able to rise up in
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: this new form of humanity, are going to take the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: empty seat and establish themselves as their own god. They're
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: going to determine their own values. Right, this is the
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: idea of his beyond good and evil, where now we
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: are going to rise above those distinctions, which I mean
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: even in the Elder Scrolls world, if they do have
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: good and evil as we understand them, only exists within
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the temporal sphere, whereas once you get to the trans
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: temporal sphere, to the original spirits and whatnot, you know
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: at that point, like they don't have good and evil
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: in the sense that we experience it, because they are
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: above that distinction in the Elder Scroll's lore, and so
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: too that this is where Nietzsche encourages us to go,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: if we're going to have the strength to go there,
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: beyond good and evil, establish yourself and your own transcendence.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: But what we see here in the moral an account
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: of the Tribunal is that ultimately it doesn't work, that
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: you can't become a god. You can role play for
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: a little while, but in the end it's going to
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: come crashing down. You're going to fall into insanity because
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: again you're not rightly ordered, right, you're not placing yourself
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: in the right location within the hierarchy, and when you
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: put yourself in the wrong place, you're not actually stepping
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: into divinity. You're stepping into the void. You're stepping into chaos.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: And so as you're reaching up to grasp that order,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: you end up being subsumed into the chaos of the void.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: And sue Almluxia, this agent of lover or whatever it
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: is not that ultimately, once what she is grasping onto
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: slips away, well she slips away as well, or perhaps
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: better yet, she had slipped away a long time ago,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: just hadn't yet realized it, you know, until the it
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: was presented to her in the mirror of mortality.
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: M Hm.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this scheme's a lot more anti postmodern than I remember.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I kind of like it.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: They try, they try really hard, and it just doesn't work.
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: But I guess what's interesting too, you know, looking at
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the need she and it's you see that both ends
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: of like you know, of becoming and then the death.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: But it just says the dunmer in general, like the
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: dark elves. Like it's it's interesting thinking of about like
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: you're watching your religion die in front of you, you know,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: just like what.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Does that do?
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Like where does that take you as a people, which
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: to them it reverted them back to you know, the
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: good dadra. Their reclamation is what happened at that.
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: The good deedra. I like, honestly, of the three good deadra,
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: I would say, the only one of them that is
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: good is a Zurra, right, And that's being and that's
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: being generous to a Zurra because somebody actually made like
• 39:33
  Speaker 4: a really good like somebody kind of made like a
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: really good kind of a like recontextualized analogy to like
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: what is who a zura is and what she is like?
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: And she's she's basically like the elder Squirrel's version of
• 39:48
  Speaker 4: of like an e girl, Like she's like you know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: and she's very like you know, she's she's like she's
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: like this big. She's like this big like diva influencer,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: and she's she's weird because she like, like you know,
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: she she will love you and she will be good
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: to you, but only if you love her the way
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: she should. She thinks she she should be loved and
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: adored and admired and basically like she wants to be simped.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: She wants to be simped for like to use, like
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: to use like modern like internet modern internet slang and
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: which is dating this video terribly also, but like you know,
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: but uh and what's what's interesting is like and when
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: so when she when she gets mad, she gets really mad,
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: like when the when the Tribunal betrayed her champion Narravar
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: and they and they murdered him. Uh, like when she
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: cursed the Dune, when she cursed the Dunmrk. So one
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: of the things about Azira is that she hates the undead.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: So she like, so she curses the Kimer, who were
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: fit these fair, gold skinned people to look like like
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: you know, ash and gray and blood red eyes, like
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: she like she describes them as ghouls. Like you know
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: you okay, you look like a ghoul. Now you look
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: like you're dead, Like this is this is this is
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: kind of like this this is kind of like in
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: some ways, this is it. It was kind of like
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: an ultimate punishment almost like you know, kind of like
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: where her like she was kind of like, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: she was kind of making herself anathema from her own people.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: And like, so the the the Dunmer have got a
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: really fascinating relationship with death and that they're cursed to
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: look like the dead and you know, at least at
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: least that's what it was initially. Yeah. And then also
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: they've got their whole stuff, you know that they've got
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: all of their stuff with death. They've got you know there,
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: they've got their ancestor worship, which can which you you
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: can there's there's like other layers that you could like
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: take that and interpret it. But and it's just really
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: this is a tangent like you know, I'm sorry, Andrew,
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: but but like it's uh, uh, I don't know that
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: that's that's just a really interesting aspect of uh and
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: kind of like really sad aspect of just kind of
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: doune married culture.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: No, no, no apology necessary. I appreciate these lord dives here. Yeah.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: So it is interesting that as the tribunal grasp bad
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: divine life, that their people became cursed with this air
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: of mortality, of this kind of death that is woven
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: into the very appearance right that that death just pervades
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: their culture, It pervades the island of Arnfel, which of
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: course ends in disaster, and so just death looms over
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: them even as they're grasping for life. Now, it's kind
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: of interesting that the tribunal themselves. They they aren't subject
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: to this curse. Correct.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: It's really weird. It's like so like and there there's
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: kind of like that they're like the three of them
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: are kind of playing like or they they are they
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: are presenting themselves kind of in different roles. So it's
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: like all Alexia. So she's still gold because she it's
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: like she is like openly. It's like she's openly and
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: they're they're like there's there's like there's like all there's
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: like all sorts of stuff that can be said on this,
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: you know, so like I'm kind of I'm kind of
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: giving you guys kind of what I remember, you know,
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: reading and stuff like that, and to anybody who may
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: be listening, you know and wringing their hands at me,
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: like I apologize I'm doing you know who knows more
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: than me. I apologize I'm doing my best. But uh,
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: it's like she's gold. All Alexia is gold because she
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: it's like she's kind of like she's in denial kind
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: of like almost and she's like she know she she
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: she's the one who's kind of like, you know, she's
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: actively putting on an act. And then you have Sofa
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: cil Sofacill basically embraces who he is. He embraces who
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: his becomes. So he's like, you know, he's got the
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: you know, he's got like the the the grayskin and
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: you know, everything, and he he has he he has accepted,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: uh uh what he is. And one of the things
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: about one of the interesting things that the Older Skulls
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: Online did for Sofa Sil when they expanded on him,
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: was that they actually made him a kind of person
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: who has become like hyper obsessed with He's basically basically
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: become like hyper obsessed with like fate and basically basically predestination,
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: like you know, kind of like to an extreme, all
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: he can see like he's he's he's not. He's not
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: just somebody who's gone like you know, mad with despair
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: or anything. Like they've they've they've they've i mean, he
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: has done that, but like they've they've done more with it.
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: And that like he sees every he he he he
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: has kind of like this I don't know, this almost
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: eternalist view of time maybe where like every like everything
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: is everything is kind of set in past, present in future,
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: everything is kind of set in stone. So nobody can
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: be uh an you know, anything that they're not like
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: he like he has kind of accepted him this this
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: tragic view of himself, which is like, you know, I
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: was like always doomed to kill my friend Neravar, and
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: I am doomed to just be what I am and
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: do what I do and uh so he so he
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: kind of so he like it's like so so alm
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: Alexia defies the punishment, so Fcil embraces the punishment, and
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: Vivek is like the weird duality where he tries to
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: be everything all at once, like he tries like, he
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: tries to be Kimer, and he tries to be Donemer.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: He tries to be you know, he tries to be God,
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: and he tries to be mortal. He tries to be
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: you know, every hero. He tries to be man and woman.
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: He wants to be all like he wants to be
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: kind of like he wants to be like all things
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: at once. He is pushing his like you know, his
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: false narrative in his thirty six lessons about who he
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: is and his place in the world world, and but
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: at the same time, like.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: You he he you know, he.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Leaves the secret message inside the thirty six sermons you know,
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: foul murder, you know, and uh like there was and
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: there was there was another secret message that I can't
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: remember off the top of my head, where basically like
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: he's denying the murder and he accepts that he's a
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: murderer at the same time. So there, there's it's really
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: I feel like I've made a dog's breakfast of that.
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: But that's that's that's kind of the gist of what's
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: going on there, and I find it really fascinating.
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: That's kind of feeling I got from Vivek Dog's Breakfast.
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: It was just Yeah, I recently read the inscription of
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: his lessons as a sujama fueled fever dream, and I
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: think that's more or less accurate. Uh yeah. And I mean,
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: isn't that this idea that we get in the Elder
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Scroll's lore of like true transcendence and like the ideal
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: of mortality in moving past these limitations to uh the
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: is it like the Chim or Kim Chim idea where
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: we're yeah, Kim and so we're going to basically become
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: one with being right to go back to that kind
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: of sort of language which you know, what we're trying
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: to rise above the limitations placed on us by Lorcan's
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: influence in you know, inciting the creation of this world
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: that is inherently limited. We want to try to move
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: beyond that. And that's something that Avec I think achieves
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: or maybe that's an open question.
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: He kind of does. Yeah, it's it's it's very it's
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: very very confusing. So like like if so, like if
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: you go to the official Elder Scrolls wiki on it's
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: called the Six Walking Ways that they're basically there's like
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: there's basically six different philosophies for how you achieve Kim
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: like kind of like this this enlightenment where you realize
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: you are kind of like in basically like the way
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: it's described by Vivek and others is you are you
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: basically realize that you are inside a dream, like the
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: dream of a god, and you become a lusive a
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: lucid dreamer. So as a lucid dreamer you have like
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: some degree of control over the dream. And like, uh,
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: but if you look at that six Walking Ways page,
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: they're updating it. They're updating it and changing it constantly,
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: like in the in the history notes for the page.
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: Because the the Six Walking Ways, they're so they're so
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: obtuse and they're so confusing, and it's like and it's
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: changing all the time, and uh, but they they give you,
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: they they're each a different way for how basically you
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: how you achieve Kim, how you achieve like this enlightenment,
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: and even Kim itself has got like multiple stages and
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: like so like uh and even has like I think,
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: like two different like two different meanings also as well,
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: it's it's it's it's kind of a hot mess. But
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: like so, yes, in short, Vivek has achieved achieved some
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: form of Kim.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Right, so much so that he is at least in
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: part responsible for his own birth.
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: Correct, that's how Okay? So I know what I know,
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: I know what reference, I know what lesson you're referencing,
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: and if anyone else wants to chip in, feel free please.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: But my understanding, my personal understanding of that lesson was
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: him basically creating a narrative to to to justify, like,
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: you know, to his people, Hey guys, like I'm a god,
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: like for real.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: See, I I don't have a strong theological stance on
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: VEC recording, like what what is true? What what isn't?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. I'm still working through that. I'm
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: still I've been off. I've been off a lot to
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: work on here. When I said together lesson.
• 49:57
  Speaker 4: It's so big, it's so big. It's so big. Like
• 50:00
  Speaker 4: you remember when I told you about that seven and
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: a half hour video. I watched it. It took me,
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: it took me three days. My brain melted. I learned
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: a lot. I learned a lot, and I felt like
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: I learned nothing at all, but my brain melted. But
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: I would say like three. But my takeaway from that,
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: from that simply was three big things to take away
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: from the sermons of the VEC is basically, uh gnosticism,
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: where's my thumb? Gnosticism, Hinduism and uh uh Aleister Crawley's
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: The Book of the Law, which for like uh you
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: know which and and the the The author of this
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: video was very critical of Alistair Crawley. Uh but he
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: but he bas but he basically that there were there
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: were some some lessons are at Some of the Veck's lessons,
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: I apologize UH are in some cases quoted almost word
• 50:57
  Speaker 4: for word from the Book of the Law, which I
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: he any show and and and like Kotho the guy
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: who made the the guy who made made the video.
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: His name is Koto. He put those texts side by side,
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: and that was I don't know, it was very uh
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: it was it was very It was very interesting stuff.
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: That's lessons of the Beck are weird. Man.
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like, based on what you were saying,
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: it did feel kind of like the vec's like one
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: of those kind of cult leaders that just makes it
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: up as he goes along, so that you always have
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: one more thing that you have to do if you
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: want to attain whatever he attained. He's trying to.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: He's trying to do everything.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Stringing you along and keeping you kind of following him,
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: so he's always got one more thing that you know.
• 51:44
  Speaker 4: I don't I don't remember exactly as to the one
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: more thing, one more thing, But what he is trying
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: to do is everything right, Like he's he's trying to
• 51:52
  Speaker 4: tie like all like all of like historical events, like
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: he's trying he's trying he's trying to take credit for everything.
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: Oh hey, like like these these these these monsters that
• 52:04
  Speaker 4: like you know, from like this whole other mythology and
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: this whole other part of the world. Yeah, like I
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: I birthed that like, oh, like, you know, I birthed that,
• 52:12
  Speaker 4: I married. I married uh a guy and we had
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: kids and our kids were monsters. So you're you're you're
• 52:18
  Speaker 4: your your mythology is mine, Like, oh, that that historical event,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: I was there. I did that, like you know, I
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: did he's taking credit for It's so funny. He's taking
• 52:27
  Speaker 4: credit for like everything. It's it's it's it's honestly the
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: fact that this that Yeah, basically, like the fact that
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: the VEC is like.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: That's an indictment in and of itself.
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: Like the the fact that like the VEC is trying
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: to like steal and take credit for everything. I feel
• 52:49
  Speaker 4: like there's I feel like there is an intentional poetic
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: irony in the fact that Kirkbride like just like ripped
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: passages from the Book of the Law. It's kind of like,
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: you know, it's kind of like, you know, Viveca is like, oh,
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: I'm taken. I'm taken your thing and I'm making mine now.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: I'm actually not super familiar what is the Book of
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: the Law.
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: Oh golly, So it seems to be like people who
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: actually know the Book of the Law are going to
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: get so mad at me. What so so one of
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: the so one of the guys in the Mythic Minds.
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: Discord basically said that Aleister Crawley was one of those
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: guys like early twentieth century, one of those you know,
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: one of those really weird early twentieth century thinkers, and
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: he basically dabbled in a lot of basically like free
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: or proto Satanism basically, and so the Book of the
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: Law is the Book of the Law seems to be
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: like his weird mishmash of like Egyptian mysticism and like
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: like Egyptian mysticism in Greek mysticism, and maybe and like
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: like like you know, Gnostic and Christian influences, and like
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: he's got like and he'll like he'll he's got like
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: his own like incantations that he's crafted where it's like, oh,
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: to like summon an Egyptian God, you have to do
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: this mystic Christian ritual and like kind of strange stuff
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: like that. But like the the the gist of the
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: book seems to be like this is my this is
• 54:27
  Speaker 4: my philosophical treatise for me justifying that that justifies me
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: doing whatever I want to do with my life. And
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: he was like he was a very he was a
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: very very heatedistic person.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it's still this attempt to grasp a divinity, right, yeah,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: and so this takes its form in the form of
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: the you know, the nineteenth and twentieth century occultism that
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: really spurred up, as well as the more secular Nietzschean
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: wild the power Ore. Like they're connected. It's the same
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: basic idea of we're going to steal fire from the gods, right,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: we are going to grasp at divinity. But it is
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: interesting that you know, we talked about how that manifests
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: itself in al Molexium, and obviously he didn't do very
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: much good for Sofasil and then for Avec that he
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: is this he's manipulative, that he we I don't have
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: reason to think that he's a good guy on a
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: number of different levels here and so again it continues
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: his commentary that like, you know, I I don't know
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: exactly what's what we would say is at the root
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: of who who's the who's the guy who actually wrote
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: the Lessons of a Bak the Michael Kirkbride, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: and so you know, regardless of what his intentions may
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: have been, or may not have been. I think we
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: still get a pretty strong indictment against this grasping at
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: divinity that seems to be pretty consistent across the tribunal.
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: I think he just wanted So if you know anything
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: about Michael Kirkbride, like, I'm not going to get into it.
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: He's a very weird dude. I think his his his
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: his his. I'm I'm gonna like, I'm gonna dare to
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: go on a limb here. My impression of the guy
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: is that, first and foremost, he's just trying to tell
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: what he thinks are weird and interesting stories, just based
• 56:19
  Speaker 4: on his own like education that he you know, that
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: he enjoys and finds fascinating and interesting, and so I
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: think that's I think, like, first and foremost, that's what
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: he's trying to do. Like before anything, I don't think
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: he's I don't. I don't think he's trying to necessarily
• 56:33
  Speaker 4: like make a statement or anything. He's just trying to
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: make something weird. He's just trying to make something weird
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: and cool. But he but he is, But he is
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: a very he is a very strange person. And if
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: you're in the Elder scrolls, low community for any length
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: of time, his name comes up almost an obnoxious amount,
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: like because he is like even though he doesn't work
• 56:54
  Speaker 4: at Bethesda anymore, and he hasn't done so in like
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: like ten or fifteen years. He uh, he is one
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: of the He he is considered like one of the
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: fathers of Elder Scrolls lore. He's considered one of like
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: the main writers of Morowind that made Morowind what it is. Uh,
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: And so a lot of people consider Michael Kirkbride to
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: be like the true Elder Scrolls you know writer, which
• 57:19
  Speaker 4: is not entirely fair because there are other like really
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: intelligent guys that worked on it as well. Uh, But
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: Kirkbride is also the guy where he's interest. One of
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: the reasons why he comes up so much is he's
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: interacted the most with the community, like you know, in
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: in like in forum posts, and he's written he's written
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: like additional like apocryphal lore coda or you know, he's
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: actually got a code. He's got a coda story called
• 57:45
  Speaker 4: coda where and even if his stuff isn't like strictly canon,
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: it is used a lot basically to kind of like
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: help inform literary analysis. Even even if it's not necessarily canonical,
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: it helps form literary analysis of the work that is
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: within official Elder Scrolls canon.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: It's interesting how, uh, within the Elder Scrolls community you
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: have cults and cannon and Deutero canon. There's so much
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: that goes into this.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: They so much deeper than you think it is. It's
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: kind of nuts.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I'm just the And then you get
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: the people who pull up all the things that are
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: out of bounds of the normal, like environments that you
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: can explore, like to just go beyond like what a
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: particular I don't know if you ever watch those videos
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: where like they kind of like use like the no
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: clipping like command to like move past a wall or
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: something just to see what else is in the level
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: and then kind of flesh out part of the story
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: that wasn't told because they never finished it, you know,
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: and then kind of trying to bring that into to
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: like the cannon to kind of further explain what was
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: left unsaid about a particular quest or whatever.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: Right, because there's not enough they're already. Yeah. I did
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: see Kirkbriden in one of those forums. I think it
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: might have been even like a Reddit forum or something
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: when somebody asked them, you know, I said, I like,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I heard that the lesson for Beck were written when
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: you were on LSD. And he said no, but yeah,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: there was a lot of bourbon involved or something like that.
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a it's a very popular it's a very
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: popular uh uh, it's a very popular myth. Uh like
• 59:34
  Speaker 4: but part like I know, like we we we hear
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: a mythic mind. We treat the word myth, you know,
• 59:39
  Speaker 4: in a very sacred Tolkienian and Lewis sense. So pardon
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: my use of the words for for for one of
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: a better term. It's a very popular myth. And it
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: started it started as a meme. Actually it was just
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: like it, and then like as the years went on,
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: people started thinking it was true to the point where
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: like you know, yeah, like you know, Kirkbride had to
• 59:59
  Speaker 4: I think more than and wants say no, Like I
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: was not inviting LSD, like you know, I mean, I like,
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: you know, I you know, I love me whiskey and cigarettes,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 4: right you know, but but like I was not. I
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: was not high when I did when I wrote this,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: like you know, this is this is this is this
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: is Mike, this this is my like comparative religion and
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: philosophy classes leaking out of my head.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: All right, I mean it's the understandable assumption, I suppose.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: But but yes, as far as we know, this was
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: not written on assets. That's good. That's good to know. Yeah, so,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: I I mean, I've been compiling some notes here, you know,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: I think that as far as what I'm gonna do
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: with lessons of a back is more sort of general framing,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: focusing on certain key lessons, and I'm not doing a
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: seven hour analysis. That's not gonna happen. But yeah, it's
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: it's it's interesting, interesting stuff to deal with. But again,
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: I think that my main takeaway from Marwind as well
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: as from the DLCs, is that, like we we need,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: that the path of virtue, the path of being a
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: good person, comes down to finding your right place in
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: the hierarchy, and that when you step outside of that,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: you're inviting in disaster, both for yourself as well as
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: for the community around you. That you, as a mortal,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: are not meant to be God, and that yeah, you know,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: you may be able to live for a time in
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: this realm of determining your own values and really setting
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: yourself apart from the hierarchy that's intrinsic in existence, but
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: at best, as I said before, that you're only going
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: to be a role playing that identity for a while,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: but eventually it's going to come crashing down because we
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: mirror mortals with all the limitations that that involves. We
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: aren't made for transcendence, and you're never going to be
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: able to attain that which is not yours by nature.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: And so I think that there is some at least
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: implicit classical philosophy built into this by means of the
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: warning of you don't get to yourself, despite what might
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: say about that in a very literal.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: Sense, sounds kind of romans one mm hmmm.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: I think that's definitely. I think that's definitely. I think
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: that thematic idea that you're talking about is definitely true
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 4: in like in like like a in like a morowind
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: sense kind of it. I don't I don't know about
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: like I don't know about like say, Typerceptim so much
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: like who, like you know, who is kind of like
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: one of those people who like achieves Kim and he
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: become and he like he does he does become a
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: new god. Now uh, his good his role is Uh.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: His role is really interesting in that, like and there's
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: like there's a lot there's a lot of debate and
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: interpretation going on with regards to tallos, like you know,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: the the you know, the elves who are very anuick.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: They despise typer Sceptim for achieving kim as you know,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 4: as you know, as they see that, you know, they
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: see they see themselves as like you know, the children
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: of the gods. Uh. And you know they're you know,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: they're trying, they're trying to get themselves back to that
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: kind of like that almost kind of like that perfect
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: gnostic ideal. And it's it's kind of like and it's like,
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: you know, this this typer Septum has kind of seems
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: to have kind of beaten them to the punch and
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: they're they're they're they're seething at that. But tiber Septum himself,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: it's not entirely clear what he's doing with his dividity either,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: like he used it to like form and solidify the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 4: empire with an amidium. Uh. But like it's it's I
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: feel like it's gonna take a lot more. I feel
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 4: like it's gonna take a lot more. Like study of
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: of tyber Septim. Once you get into Kim in the
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: Six Walking Ways, that's actually where things become a lot
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: more muddy and elder scrolls and a lot less crystological.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they're all kinds of different things happening
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: in older scrolls. So it's definitely not monolithic by any means. Now,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: how I know it's may take us a little bit
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: of field. But uh, I don't even know if this question
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: makes sense or not. But how how exactly did Tiper
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: symptom achieve Kim? Like what what did what did he do?
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Do we know that question? That makes sense? E?
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 4: So like I it's it's all it's all really fuzzy
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: in my head. So there are gonna be people who
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: will watch or listen to this and they will probably
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 4: scream at me again like.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: He studied the writings of Chuck.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 4: Norris that that that's it. We like just lessons over.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 4: We could go home, We could go home. I don't
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 4: have like, I don't have a prepared answer for you.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 4: I wish I did. I know it involved using the
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: new medium, which was powered by either the Heart of
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: lore Con or it was like a proxy copy of
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: the Heart of Lorecan and and like the the if
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: you if you if you know or remember what the
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: new media the Numidium is, which was like the it's
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: it's the the uh the dwimmer God, uh, the dwimmer
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: God machine kind of like the the the dwimmer Gundam
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: that uh that uh is like it's so it's so
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: powerful it causes like a dragon break, which is kind
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 4: of like where time breaks and you know drag you
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: know Acintosh dragon god of time. So like you know,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 4: like the you know, time breaks and everything kind of
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: gets all uh loopy and crazy. And he he got
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: he got the new He got the Nomidium from the Tribunal,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: I believe from you know, from vi Vec and all
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: those guys who basically they they were the Timelineman is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 4: really really fuzzy. I'm not sure when Day got there,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: comes into the picture and starts taking their power. But
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: the Empire is encroaching on Morowind and the Real and
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 4: the and the Tribunal realize that even they cannot keep
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 4: Triperceptim out forever. So they kind of deal with him
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 4: and they give him they hey, you know, keep keep
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 4: varden Fell largely autonomous for us, and we'll give you
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 4: the nomidium and we don't care what you do with it.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: And boyle boyd hyperceptim do you think uh with it?
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 4: Including like in addition to like solidifying almost the entire
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 4: continent into the empire, he conquered the sumrset Aisles, which
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: you know the elves were pretty salty about, and that
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: leads to like the foum more and the skyrm stuff
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: like event you know, you know, centuries later. But I know,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: I know the new I know the all I know
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 4: the New medium is at least involved I I I
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: don't I don't know if he committed. I don't remember
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: if he committed to one of the walking ways to
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: achieve Kim or not. But like it is a great
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: like I do know that he achieved Kim, it's just
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: not U the details are fuzzy. So I I apologize
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: for that rambling. Professor.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: No that that was a good answer, but at least
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: it was much better the answer than I could give
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: to this. Yeah, as I said, I'm not by nature
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: deep into the law itself, but that's actually very helpful.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: I do now need to do a deep dive into
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: tyberceptum and kind of in contrast, with his means of
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: achieving divinity as well as his character what he did
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: with it with the Tribunal, because it would be interesting
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: to see what kind of lessons we can draw through
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: those analogies or through that relationship as far as like
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: what it means to achieve to divinity and you know
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: why it worked for him in a way that didn't
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: necessarily work for the Tribunal.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 4: There are some there, there is an interpretation. There are
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: some people that speculate that Tyberceptum is himself a reincarnation
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: of Lorcan, right, like you know, he's so like he
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: like he like you know, there is there there there
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: is speculation, so you know, he is a he is
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: a chazarine, you know, you know, which is to say
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: like kind of like an aspect or like a reincarnation
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: almost of Lorcan. There's also apparently, I don't know if
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 4: you remember, it's from the last lesson, the funny old
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: man at the Ghostgate who's talking about how the empire
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: is dying and maybe it's time for a change. Uh.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 4: He that apparently was maybe kind of like an avatar
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: of tyber Septum, you know, and he's kind of talking
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: about you know, the Empires had a good run, but
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: it's time for a change.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: So Septim was the four more Wind.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 4: Uh, yes, yes, he was kind of like, you know,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 4: kind of into the second era beginning of the third
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 4: col Well.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: I like where this conversation from the expansions has gone
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: to kind of the connections to the broader lore, and
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: so I'm very pleased with that. Is there anything else
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: about this conversation about Expansions about more Wind in general?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: We'll continue to talk about this as each of these
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: these games and all the lore builds on itself, and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: so we're not going to leave more Win behind necessarily.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: But is there anything else that anyone want to mention
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: for this more Wind proper unit?
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 4: I guess Dark Dark Brotherhood Siti, Tribunal Chaos, more more
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: chaos in order.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, more more chaos in order.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 4: That's all I didn't get. I didn't get to Tribunal.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I think that in this connection with
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: the Tribunal itself talking about the effect, I mean, it's
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: all related, and so it worked even if we didn't
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: get into like the details of the quest line. I
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: feel like this is the most important stuff that comes
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: out of the expansion is the broader inner workings of
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: the tribunal itself. So I think we hit that pretty
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: sufficiently for this conversation, at least, I mean, as we've
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: alluded to any point of anything Elder scrolls lower and
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: perhaps especially more and lower. I mean, you could easily
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: spend I don't know, countless amount of time delving into
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: this stuff. But I'm pretty content with this conversation. So
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: next time I'll try to get more up to speed,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: to my preparedness as we move into oblivion. But that
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: will be what we do next week. But I guess
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: we'll go ahead and wrap it here for now, all right,
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: see you then have a good one.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: Thank you, professor.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you,