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What I Wish I Knew at 18 · AccessCo Leaders Career Conversations

• speaker-3: Welcome back to the Access Co-Leaders Summer Leadership Series. Throughout this series, we're sitting down with executives, entrepreneurs, and leaders for conversations we wish every student could hear before graduating high school or college. Today's topic is one I think every young person wrestles with. How do you know what to do next? Should you go to college, take the job, follow your passion, choose stability, or take the risk? Today we're exploring what Successful people wish they had known when they were 18. As always, this conversation is designed for students and young adults who are building careers, finding purpose, and discovering that there isn't one perfect path. We're gonna jump in, but before we do, I want to introduce our director of operations, our producer and co-host, Vanessa. Good morning. All right, all right. And then our two guests. We have Scott Goldman. We're gonna start off with you. He is the director of organizational training and strategic support at DSM for Minich. Scott, can you tell everyone in in just a few sentences, what do you do at DSM for Miniche? who do you serve? And what what gets you excited about your workday? speaker-1: sure. So thanks for having me on. And first of all, a little bit about DSM Ferminish. And I do work for the biomedical division of DSM Ferminish, where we do focus on biomaterials that are used in implantable medical devices. And so very exciting field and area. I've been there for now over 30 years. And and in my role today, I've had a lot of different roles in my career at DSM Ferminish. My current role is a bit of a hybrid role. I'm in charge of onboarding, learning and development, also internal communications, and finally I do serve as chief of staff for our senior management team, really helping us stay organized at the top. So that's a little bit about me. speaker-3: That is a lot of things. And I don't think I realized, you know, we've known each other for a few years now that it's been 30 years with the company. That is amazing. Amazing. All right. Another loyal guest here is Marcella DeSantis. She serves as a national sponsorship director of Titan CEO. Marcella, it's so great to have you on the show. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're doing, who you serve, and again, what gets you excited about your workday? speaker-2: thank you so much for having me, Eileen. It's good to see everyone. So, as the national sponsorship director of Titan CEO, I serve the CEO community, obviously. And I fell into that industry over two decades ago and learning about CEOs and their stories, whether that's their their vision, their grit, their accountability, their leadership. That's probably what gets me going every day. I'm so inspired by those stories. and I have been here just under a year, but I have worked in the CEO capacity for quite some time. I have a team of seven who I help with our national expansion. Titan is now in 13 markets across the country. and we're in our seventh year. And so the founder and I actually met in our previous CEO. space. and I am here to help with that expansion. So thanks for having me. speaker-3: Look at that. this is a neat comparison hearing that Scott has been with the same company with a variety of jobs within that company for 30 years, where Marcella, you've always kind of been in that business space, but doing different things. So it's gonna be really interesting to hear as we set the stage here, how you guys were at 18 and where you are today, when you think Scott, when you think back to yourself at eighteen, who was that person? Can you tell us a little bit about what you were like? Where were you? Were you did you grow up in the Pennsylvania area? speaker-1: I actually grew up in New Jersey, so not too far away. I was your I'd say your kind of stereotypical overachiever in high school, trying to do just you know, taking as many classes as possible in sports. I was a tennis player, I was in a marching band, I was in clubs, I was in student council, and and really I was just trying to get as much experience as absolutely possible in high school. of course, in high school you're not. you don't exactly know what the future holds, but I had always thought, well, you know, med school sounds like an interesting area for me to pursue. I really like biology. I really liked helping people. And so I I set out, that was what I I had intended was I would try for a path that would bring me to med school and eventually become a doctor. speaker-3: neat. And you are still in that space and not working at a hospital, but still doing those kinds of things. That's great to hear. And what about you, Marcella? Tell us a little bit. Where did you grow up and what was the eighteen year old Marcella like? speaker-2: So I grew up in Maryland, just outside of Annapolis. And during high school, I worked a lot. I always enjoyed making my own money. so I didn't do a lot of varsity sports. I did participate in cheerleading. but and I was a good student. but my parents, both being blue collar, they weren't really forming me to go off to university, which ideally I would have. you know, appreciate it and I'm now a parent and my daughter is at university. So it's interesting how that leap has transpired from my parents to myself. but I was always probably born to do sales and didn't know that about myself. And when I fell into that arena, college kind of fell by the wayside for me because the earnings were so attractive compared to some of the degreed people that I knew. I was actually placing them. I was working in recruiting as an accounting and finance headhunter at a very young age. so I shied away from that, although I understood the value of a university education and I'm currently in college at this point in time. So my 18-year-old self was learning a lot of things about herself, but knew somewhere in there that making money was probably my biggest priority. speaker-3: Awesome. Well, I could see those both of you at 18, like, Scott, you're doing the medical stuff, all the science-y things. Marcella's like, we're gonna go get that money and stack the cash. And here you are. So it's great to see that. Let's camp out here a little bit in this topic that nobody has it figured out. And we'll go ahead and start off with you, Marcella, because you kind of already touched on this, that you knew that, like, hmm, I can make money right away. And what does that look like? when did you realize that? Most people are still trying to figure it out as they go. What when did that realization come to you? speaker-2: Well, when I got when I started working in recruiting, I worked for a government defense contractor in accounting and finance, which drove me into college and I was like, Well, I'm gonna need to have a degree and companies were paying for you to go to school at that point in time, and some still do today. And so I was willing to go and learn, but I just realized that academically I wasn't passionate about it. I had done high school and I was glad to be out of there, so to speak. So when I got into recruiting accounting and finance professionals, I got to Work in a sales capacity with an industry, I knew I could speak the language. I knew what the controller. I knew what the CFO. I knew what the accounting manager was looking for. And in meeting those individuals with a formal education, I realized that they were being placed at salaries that were one third of what I was earning. So I became very intrigued by that and didn't realize that the sales path would give me maybe this opportunity. But I again, I still understood that. And you know, education is important and I d I definitely don't want that to get lost on anyone when they watch this call. Because if you're in a position to take advantage of that, that's the advice I probably would have told my eighteen year old self was go finish your degree as quickly as possible. speaker-3: Knock it out. That's good. That's good. You know, you you touched on this without quite saying the words, but there was a little bit of comparison there, right? Like seeing what you were already doing and making compared to these, you know, other your your by the age counterparts. now, Scott, you went directly from schools, you know, and and and continued your education. Was there ever a time that you felt like there's some comparison there or you may may have felt behind? Tell us a little bit about that. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: Well, I would say, I mean, first of all, I always like to stay busy, right? So for me, it was never I I didn't give myself a lot of time to do the comparison thing. I mean, I I looked for role models. I looked for people out there who were doing things that I wanted to do. And if I saw it and I could emulate it, that's what I would do. I would go after that. So yeah, not a lot of really time for that. Here I am and here's where I'm going. It was more let's keep as busy as possible. And as long as I'm moving in a positive direction, I'm gonna get to somewhere. and so yeah, I mean, when I I I got to school, again, even when I got to college, I joined like as many different things as possible to keep driving me towards you know, just driving me forward, learning new things. So yeah, I I mean I I think that the the key there was just learning as absolutely much as possible. and that's gonna keep all of your options open as you move forward. speaker-3: As we sit here in this the nobody has it figured out section of our conversation, something I was thinking about is, you know, obviously our conversation is about career and your professional journey, but I also like to talk about the per personal stuff. Like, did you guys ever when you started in your career? So at 18, did you think, okay, I do want to have a family, I want to have kids, but I also want to go to school and I also want to make money. were there any of those like tangled tangled thoughts or what do I What do I start to prioritize? Maybe not 18 for me personally, but for you, Scott, like when did you start realizing, okay, and you shared with us in the green room or before the show that you have kids, one's already graduated from college and one in college. Like when did you start to realize, okay, I've got my my career started? Let me let me figure out the family stuff. speaker-1: Well, I mean, I think a story that sort of like highlights that a bit is my decision eventually not to go to medical school. right. So I was in college, I had decided to study bioengineering because that was there was no pre-med program in my college. And I also really liked math. So I was advancing, I was sometime in my early junior year, and I had a decision to make. If I really wanted to do the med school route, I had to take a couple different types of classes. And and really commit to it at that time. And I said to myself, you know what? I want a slightly different balanced life at this point. I want to explore what the real world has for me. I want to start, you know, as Marcella said, making some money on my own a little bit. and not just enough money to pay for college, but you know, making some money and having something to go out there and do. And so that was a it was a tough decision. but I honestly I I mean I could tell this story real quick now or I could tell it later in the program, but speaker-3: Go ahead and hear it now. speaker-1: yeah, when I did get into my first job, my first, you know, significant job after college, which is essentially where I work today, I got to work on a medical device that's been in used in more than 40 million patients today. And and I just thought to myself, like I've had an impact on more than 40 million people by working on this one product and one device. And had I decided to go to medical school. I would have had to go to school for a bunch more years. And even the number of people I would impact would be so much less, right? Like if you if you helped, you know, 10 people a day, 50 people a week over the course of an entire career, I mean, you wouldn't even get to 100,000 people, right? Your your your ability, you're gonna help a lot of people, but you could do so much more when you work in a group. And in addition, going down that pathway, right? I did have more time to, I I met my wife, I could get married. kids, I could sort of balance all of the rest of that as well. So speaker-3: Thank you for sharing that, Scott. And there were and hearing those motivations. You didn't mention anything about you read a book, self-help book, were a mentor or anything. That was just kind of you had you had that personal thought and that motivation. Let's hear from Marcella. What about you? Were there any moments at that young age at 18, starting your career or figuring that out? that you had to decide, mm, you know, finding that balance between work and personal life. speaker-2: Yes, I would say because I was married at 19 for a hot minute, right? I and then I quickly realized what an enormous responsibility and undertaking that was. and quickly became unmarried. I it gave me clarity, right? So I thought, okay, well I'm out here working, I have my job, I know what I like to do. now I'm in a relationship. Okay, we should get married. and then I was like, no, no, no, no, no, that's a whole nother level of responsibility that at this age I didn't really feel prepared for. so that was unfortunate. And I would not go on to get married and have my daughter until almost 14 years later. because I really felt like that gave me perspective about making sure I was sure, making sure I had done all the things I wanted to do before I had to start giving up things or making sacrifices because. Because as Scott would know, when you get married, you're taking on a lot of responsibility and that will require some changes to your life, to your lifestyle, to the decisions that you make. so that's kind of where I was at eighteen. speaker-3: Thank you for sharing so transparently. You know, like nobody has it figured out then. I mean, again, there's something to be said as far as starting a career, realizing there's some relationships out there, whether it's your your partner and then having to make those decisions. Am I making those decisions for myself and my direction in that career? Or am I going to be sharing that, like you said, Marcella, that responsibility and decision? Or in Scott's case. making the space to have those relationships while continuing to pursue your career. That's really awesome. Again, we don't have it figured out and everybody's so different, right? So and speaking of that, let's move on to choosing a direction. Students are always asking, how do I know what career to choose? You know, this is one of our favorite topics is why we, you know, partly why we exist as access co-leaders, is to show on the students that just because you work at the hospital doesn't mean that you have to be a doctor or a nurse. Or in Scott's case, just because you have that desire to help people and serve people medically doesn't mean you have to work at a hospital. I love that there's a little twist in your story, Scott. and same with you, Marcella, with business. It doesn't have to look like you're building, you know, a brick and mortar business. It is about building up a person and bringing in that money, as you have said. so let me ask the both of you, have you followed your interests or your opportunities? Let's start off with you, Scott. I mean, I I know you've gone in the medical direction. but tell us a little bit. Is it more about the interests or the opportunities or even the passion? What do you think was driving you? speaker-1: I mean, it's really a combination of all three. I do think it should start with interest though. right. And that that's really what started for me is the interest was around A, helping people and B, I knew kind of the things I like to do, which was math and science. But it's also taking those interests and looking where there's opportunities to really do some good things and and really be able to succeed, right? So it's sort of a balance of the two. You don't just pursue something just because you make a lot of money. Right. But there's ways to make a lot of money in all sorts of things that you could do. So you know, use that to sort of guide. That would be my advice. speaker-3: Right. Okay. speaker-1: And and and the one other thing, and I'm sure I'll repeat this throughout, but you know, making one decision doesn't necessarily try to make decisions that don't close the doors on other directions that you can move in. Right. So You know, just keep all of those options open because you're going to change your mind probably dozens and dozens of times throughout your career. especially now with the mobility that people have. So just don't tie yourself into one thing. Just don't think that a decision is going to tie yourself into just one thing. speaker-3: That's so awesome, Scott. what about you, Marcella? I I I have a couple of questions here that I feel like you may have some thoughts on. speaker-2: well, I just wanted to kind of recap that, you know, like I feel like no matter your path, right? Fail failure isn't the opposite of success, right? It's part of your success. So I have always thought or heard in my mind the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. So if you ever watch the Winter Olympics with, you know, I think that was Howard Cosell or whoever did that, did that running PA, you know, the thrill of victory is fun, right? Winning is fun, but the growth happens when you're losing. When you're maybe not reaching the outcome that you thought you would. and so I think having numerous interests and figuring out which one of those fit me best was really helpful to me as I navigated sales. So from recruiting, I went to advertising and publishing. And then that's how I kind of fell into the CEO space. so you know, that whole when one door closes, another door opens. You know, everyone's really kind of figuring it out as they go. some people seldom, you know, my husband and I talk about this all the time. Nobody knows at 18 what they want to be when they grow up. But sometimes, you know, some people are very fortunate. I envy him. He very much knew what his path was going to be and he went down that path. but for most young people, they do not. And I think that's a really heavy expectation. but I feel like I'm also surrounded by my own daughter who really seems to know her path. And her path is similar to Scott's. And I commend her for that because she kind of knows where she's going. but I think that there's like a a balance between the earning money piece. I did love that when I was young. Of course, you know, having money meant you could have a nicer car, you could buy clothes, or you could go on vacation. now I really find that what I'm doing isn't so much about the money, but it's just the greater good. It's a sense of community, it's kind of being around servant leadership. So that whole shift of why I do it is very different than what my motivations were back then. speaker-3: Absolutely. But one of the questions I wanted to ask you, Marcella, in this this discussion about choosing a direction, has there ever been a time that saying yes or saying no has changed your life? So you mentioned one job led to another, you know, this door opened, you know, that opportunity. Can you share a little story speaker-2: So yeah, I when I first was working in this kind of cozy government defense contractor environment where everybody stayed for 30 years and had big retirement accounts and it was very stable, I had this kind of sales personality. So that was one of the yesnos. What do I do? And what kind of sales am I gonna do? All my friends and support system were like, you belong in sales. And I'm like, well, am I toting vacuum cleaners? Like down the block, or am I selling encyclopedias? or boats? and I, you know, and ideally I ended up in recruiting. And I really didn't know much about recruiting, but my accounting and finance experience and having worked in that that government defense contractor and taking classes in accounting and finance really matched those two together. And then I made a very big leap out of recruiting because of the folks that I surrounded myself with. So speaker-3: Absolutely. speaker-2: that's a really important lesson you need to learn. speaker-3: we'll save that, Marcella. We're gonna have to save some of those tidbits at right at the very end that we want our students to really hang on to. We're gonna tease them a little bit. But I wanna hop up back over to Scott because you talked a little bit about 30 years with the same company, but you've had different jobs and you shared that you were passionate about, you know, the medical space and you made those decisions to instead of going to be going to medical school and becoming a doctor that way, you are impacting thousands and thousands of lives with DSM from NH Biomedical. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, and actually I'd like to kind of extend it to some of the things that you're seeing now because I know you work with a lot of young engineers. So you've gone from doing more of the technical things to actually like managing people. Tell us a little bit about that and what you see in this next generation coming up. Can passion actually develop over time? Do you see the engineers coming already fired up? Like tell us a little bit about that. speaker-1: yeah, no, I mean it's when it comes to young people today, it's very different than my experience. and I think a big part of that was COVID. so our young people today did have to live through that and all of the telecommuting and and of course now there's so much better capabilities around video. and and so I do think that one of the challenges That young people have today is that with so much video connectedness, I think sometimes it's hard to get as passionate about when you're literally surrounded by people in the office who are all working towards a common goal. And so I I do recommend that if you have the opportunity to be in the office, I highly recommend pushing, and you know, I I don't recommend your first job be something remote because those those connections are are just critical. I mean. as I think Marcella said, you know, the people you surround yourself with are gonna have a great impact on your life. everybody has passion about something. And it's about finding your passion. And if you're working on a project that you're not passionate about, that's probably in the it'd be indication that maybe it's time to start looking for the next project. So for me, although I've been at the same company for 30 years, I've probably had close to 15 different jobs. and I started in innovation and I moved into the commercial side of things and got into marketing and now I'm I'm doing much more on the leadership side and other things. Right. So it constantly keeping your eyes open for things that you will be passionate about. And and if you're not, that's the sign. Keep looking, move move to the next thing. So speaker-3: Now I have to ask Scott, did you ever have a job within your 30 years then at DSM that that you didn't really love? And how long did you have to kind of stick it out? And what was like what was your, okay, I need to move on to this next job? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean of course. I I and I'm pretty I'm fairly patient. So I could give something a a good solid year to two years before I start to to really push it because one or two bad experiences hopefully won't be enough to if it if it's a good project, hopefully you'll be able to recover from it and you could turn something negative into a positive. But at some point, if the work starts to be kind of just repetitive, and or you're not moving towards growing, right? So we should always be thinking about growing and learning new things. That to me, when there's no more left to learn, that to me is the the sign that if there's no passion there, there's nothing left to learn, then I'll move forward. But it's got two years. speaker-3: Or dropping some great nuggets here. I I love that that highlight that if there's nothing left to learn, it's probably late time to move on. But usually when a company is that as that big, there usually is are are some opportunities or there's somebody to talk to to say, hey, like I really love what I do, just not this thing. So I think that's really important. it's important to be around people, not just remote. And I know this. You know, this new generation, this is all we know, right? Especially like you said during COVID. Students like the students that were in school on screen, they're starting to go to college, they're starting to make those decisions now on on their first job. So that is really important. And I I do personally agree, you might not have to be in a job all the time, like your whole career that requires you to be in the office Monday through Friday, because there's some there's a great bl blessing in the flexibility of remote work. However, that discipline of actually waking up, getting yourself decent. Going to the office, you know, setting up those priorities and timing and seeing people and managing those distractions, right? When you're actually in the office. I think it's so important. And what about you, Marcella? Have you ever been in a job where you were like, hmm, I don't actually kind of love this? And how long did you camp out there? And what was your next step? How did you make those decisions? speaker-2: I feel like at each one of those sales, you know, so the recruiting, I enjoyed it. And then of course I was surrounded by someone who was running a she was managing trade association publications across the country. And I thought, well, this is a really interesting learning opportunity. And ironically, the trade association that I managed was the American Industrial Hygiene Association. So you sit down and you think, what what is that? What what is America? I don't even know what kind of product is that like it was such a learning experience, but when you get when you dive into it, it was it taught me so much. so I like that I said yes to that opportunity, even though it felt a little outside of my comfort zone. and it did shape my career path. And so I really enjoyed that. I was still doing sales, I was still meeting with people. we were now. getting into the internet we were selling banner ads if you remember banner ads i feel like i'm a hundred years old on the stone call talking about encyclopedias and banner ads but i really just enjoyed that and she was a mentor and so i really preferred working you know with people i respected and i regarded and knew that was going to teach me more about sales because sales just like medical sales is a vast world You know, not every medical person needs to go work in a hospital, just like you said, you know, and I talk with my my own daughter about that. but I learned so much from just mentors. I really found that when I found a mentor, that's when I felt compelled to go to a new job. And then I of course, you know, have always enjoyed just having, you know, CEOs as mentors. And I still to this day have quite a few. That are very important to me. So again, I think surrounding yourself with those people, I think nothing can beat synergy from being in office, being in a meeting. I think there's so much to be said for synergy in addition to, like you said, the discipline of getting up and going to and making that level of commitment. But I think that collaboration and synergy is really key also to your self-esteem, to your work, to your growth, to your ability to learn. I definitely echo what Scott was saying on that. speaker-3: Yeah. I mean, we can sit here and talk about, you know, there's a lot of discussion about going back to the office or staying, you know, being a company that's only remote or hybrid and all of those things. I think there's great benefits to either way, but I'm an agreement and encouraging young people when you start your career off, like there's some disciplines there or find those opportunities that show you you gotta you gotta get out of your house. You have to get in the car or whatever mode of transportation and and figure that out and plan it, plan out your day. you mentioned something, Marcella, about mentors, that you had a mentor that helped you make some of those decisions. We let's shift over a little bit about taking risks. did your mentor play a part in helping you navigate some bigger decisions? And then also I'd love to hear how you connected with your mentor. Was there formal conversation or was it just the vibes? Like, hey, we get along, you're you've you're a little bit more advanced. Tell us a little bit about that relationship. speaker-2: Well, I'll keep it short. my mentors were just, yes, we were very similar in some ways, right? Like birds of a feather flock together. And I felt a draw and a pull. but I also knew that they knew more than I did, right? And I knew that learning from them was going to be important for my own success and my own development, and communicating with them. And I did on a regular basis and even became somewhat, you know, social with some of my mentors. we enjoyed the same things outside of work, right? So we bought PSL tickets and we went to Ravens games and we did those kinds of things as well. We really just had some very similar interests, but I felt like learning to communicate with a mentor was really important because it became kind of more valuable than any technical expertise alone. speaker-3: Right, right. And then there's that relationship of reaching out to the mentor, but also the mentor having that also taking that initiative. But there is like, you know, the word I use is stewarding, right? You gotta steward that relationship on both sides. Now, Scott, you've shared that you also have had some mentors and currently mentors. Tell us a little bit about about that relationship, how you select people that you you invest in and how you chose the mentors that you've had throughout your career. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I I'll I'll be honest. I've had I haven't had too many really one, really strong, strong mentors. I've had a lot of different people as I'll partial, I've sort of created my own network that way, where I I've just gotten to work with a lot of different people over the years. And so I think there are things you can learn from everybody's experiences. We all have different experiences as we've sort of navigated to where we're we we eventually are. And so you gotta put yourself out there. it and it goes kind of both ways, both up and down. you can't be too you can't be too intimidated by people above you and you shouldn't feel yourself too high for anybody. I I don't even want to say below you, because there's nobody below you or above you per se, but in roles that may be higher or lower than you. I I I just, you know, I I make it my practice to try to meet with as many of these people have lunch me you know, grab a quick lunch or a quick cup of coffee and just have chats about how our jobs and our careers have progressed and just take some of those learnings. and I I think that you don't have to go at it with a true sense of I'll say you don't have to have a motive when you go have these conversations. speaker-3: That's good. speaker-1: You have to just have the conversation and and learn as much as you can. I I think that that's critical and key. So and it goes both ways because as we develop, as you develop over the years your own knowledge, you know, I'm at a point in my career where I'm thinking about how do I pass this down to the next generation as much as possible, and to make their lives easier, keeping in mind that their experiences are going to be different, right? So just because it worked for me doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna work for you, but I could just share some of those experiences and it's something that you could take from that. So yeah, I I do think those connections are are critical both ways. speaker-3: Love hearing that that just having a conversation doesn't mean that there needs to be a motive, like, another connection on my LinkedIn or a potential opportunity. It could just be a conversation. So I love hearing, Scott, that they don't actually have to be formal by title mentors. It's just a good conversation. And you know, we are talking a little bit about risks, just having a conversation about like, hey, how how would you make this decision or what are some resources, right? that I can look into. What's a risk young people should take while they're still in early in their career? Is there any either of you can hop in, Marcella or Scott? Are there any risks that young people should take? speaker-1: I mean, I'll throw one out there that I I think it is probably and it's not just about career or anything like that, but try for an opportunity that you don't feel quite qualified for. Try for something that's a little bit above and beyond where you think that you're capable for it and see what happens, right? I mean, when's the worst thing that happens? It doesn't work out. Great. But if you get it, I I mean, think of how amazing that is. And when you first get into that role, you might feel a little unprepared for it. That's okay. I mean, you'll learn from it. And and look at that. That's how we grow. So constantly take that risk and push yourself a little bit. speaker-3: That's a healthy risk, Scott. Thank you for sharing that. What about you, Marcella? Are there any any risks, healthy risks that young people should take in the beginning of their career? speaker-2: I agree with Scott, right? You just because you may not think on paper you look like you qualify for this opportunity, you should reach out and really explore that further and be willing to take that risk and understand, you know, and celebrate if you do it, do do secure that opportunity or understand maybe why you didn't make the make the cut. And then I wanted to kind of piggyback on what Scott was saying about you know the mentors and passing down your leadership and above and below. You know, I met a CEO. His name is Paul Reed Smith. He owns a company called PRS Guitars. So if you think about every musician you've ever met, he's probably holding one of these PRS guitars. And this gentleman is here in Maryland. And when we met him for the cover of Smart CEO magazine, which is the publication that I went to work for as a sales professional and became the publisher. So the talk about learning to grow and moving into, you know, I never thought I was going there to be the publisher. I just thought there was going there to to sell. but that mentor also saw, you know, potential in me and guided me and taught me those things. But a PRS guitar, just to quickly wrap that up, he brings his employees in, whether you're the chief financial officer or the HR director. or you're working on the assembly line, everyone sweeps sawdust saw dust off the floor first where they make the guitars, right? Is a very interesting thought process to how he brings on his staff. And nobody is above or below, you know, sweeping up the sawdust before you actually become an engineer who makes the guitars or if you're in the accounting department or if you're in the HR department. So That's where I think the CEO stories and community that I fell into twenty six years ago is what kind of sucked me in because hearing those stories, you you you just don't forget forget them. You just don't forget them and it's like having mentors all over everywhere. Right. speaker-3: Actually, I've been to PRS guitars. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-3: Yeah. I've been to PRS guitars in in Maryland to the facility there. Yeah. I mean the culture there just seems really, really amazing. so thank you for sharing about a local company that manufacturing near you. one more question in the the the discussion about risks. have you Marcella, we'll talk to you first. Have you ever chosen security? When maybe you wish you would have chosen courage. speaker-2: Mm, no. I don't think I really have in a nutshell. as an only child, I I was a risk taker. when it came pro to my professional career. I wanted to get out there and figure out what it was. I wasn't gonna be held in a box because I didn't have education. no, I think that and I'm still very much I think a high risk person today when it comes to professional career. the way I invest my retirement account. that's just where that's just my comfort zone, but I do have an appreciation for for safe and secure as well. I think there needs to be a balance. speaker-3: Right. Right. And I think that's super important. I I even personally, I look at myself and like, I would think that I'm the company, you I want to stay in my box. I want my security. But I have taken those those opportunities to like lean into courage and make those decisions, which I I I think you you hit the point there as far as it's personality based. Where is your where it's not just the comfort, it's also the people that you're surrounded with. Who's gonna encourage you? Are they gonna say do it? You should do it. You have all this other stuff that you can fall back onto, right? So whether it's something personally or professionally, it is it is about who's around you to support, encourage, and hold you accountable in those and in those decisions when it when it requ when it comes to taking risks. What about you, Scott? Have you ever chosen security over over courage and and and taking risks? speaker-1: well, I I think there's a couple ways of looking at that, right? Because as you know, at your different points in your career, you you wind up with different responsibilities as well. So there's certainly all the responsibilities around work that you could be talking about taking risks or playing it safe. And then there's also family to deal with as well. So certainly at points in my career I made the decisions for what was best for my family rather than necessarily just my career. I mean, it could have been opportunities to move or move to different countries or move to different places and completely different jobs where I didn't want to uproot my family. so I don't regret any of those decisions, but there there's more than one factor sometimes when it comes to taking risks, right? It's not just you know, if it were in a vacuum and it was just me, I may have done might have done it a little differently, but But it's not because I like the other side of my life as well, right? So I'm making the overall balanced decision for myself. speaker-3: Know Arcella brought it up. We we sometimes feel like we're a hundred years old because we're talking about encyclopedias and and you know banner ads and those kinds of things. But I I think about you're right. I love that you brought this up, Scott, as far as like your timeline in your career. I used to always tell people when you're starting your career, do all the things, right? Like take all the risks and set yourself up because when you start growing, and you would you would see it in your 30-year career with the same company looking back. They're gonna see the rapport and the foundation that you built. So if there's like one blip, like, that's not characteristic of Eileen, or that's not something Scott would do. But if you were sloppy in the beginning, right, like that that's gonna be kind of the reputation you have. So manager yeses, but if you're if they're like, hey, move to China, we could really use somebody out there, and you don't have family or a partner to make those decisions with, take those risks early on. Because, like you said, once you start having your family and especially when they start you know, when they're in school and start playing for a sports team that like they're like set up for the Olympics, right? Like you're you probably don't want to uproot your family that way. So I think it you're right. It depends on where you are in your career. What actually makes the measure of a risk. So thank you for bringing that up. Our final section today is advice I wish everyone heard. So this is going to be a fun little section of like, can you guys finish this sentence? We'll start off with you, Scott. I wish more students knew what fill in a blank. speaker-1: I I think I would say I wish more students knew that the decisions you make right now are not permanent. And and and you're not really locking yourself into anything. You're gonna change, you're gonna have a lot of change. And what you think now is going to be the thing is gonna be different in the future. What speaker-3: That's incorrect. speaker-1: you think, what school you think, what and any experience you think you're thinking about in the future, it's not actually gonna be that way. And you can't predict it. So just be flexible and open to change. speaker-3: Scott, that's so encouraging. Thank you. I needed that. I I'm gonna consider myself a young person now. more cell up. What about you? Finish the sentence. I wish more students knew. speaker-2: That choosing a career is kind of a marathon, not a sprint, right? You don't know who you're gonna be when you come out of the gate at 18. I mean, the consequential part of your brain doesn't fully develop until you're 25. So, how are you supposed to really? You know, I think about that all the time being around someone who is a pre med studies student. the first job matters. far less than your willingness to keep learning. So just keep learning, right? Those are the my the things that I would tell young people. And I would say that your confidence is going to come from doing hard things, right? That's the losing over winning. Your confidence comes from doing hard things and overcoming the hard things and not waiting until you you feel ready. So you know Take the three shot in the basketball game. Don't wait. You know, make it happen. Get out there. This one doesn't go in, the next one will. And that will boost your confidence versus sitting on the bench and watching someone else play the game. speaker-3: That's amazing. Vanessa, I don't know about you, but I'm fired up and I'm we still have, you know, a handful more sections to go in this show. I'm like, yes, let's go. Take the shot. I don't even play basketball. all right. Same format, Scott. What's something students worry about that adults almost never think about? speaker-1: well, I'll say that's a little hard because I'm not a student. speaker-3: that's true. well keep filling the blank. What are some of the young thing like young people, like for you, like the the entry level engineers that you're working with? speaker-1: Yeah, what do they worry about? I mean I'll have to think about that for a moment, but I I I guess it would be I I I think if you consider what you're working on at the moment, and this sort of goes back to a little bit what I was saying before, I think as you get older you realize you know once you work on more and more projects, you can see the bigger picture. But I think you get sometimes caught in that small picture view of what you're working on at the time. And you're very worried about the details, details, details of that little thing. which which is fine when you're working on a project, but i if you take a step back from it, I I think the more experience you get, y you think bigger picture a little bit more a and don't focus so much on those little details and worry so much about those little details. I know that's a bit vague of an answer, but speaker-3: No, it's good. Yeah. It's a lot deeper than I would have. I would have said social media. Like, don't worry about social media. Stay focused. All right. So Marcella, what do you think? what's something young people worry about these days that adults just almost never think about? speaker-2: But all My my initial answer was grades, right? So I have this junior in college and she's obsessed with the grades and the perfection of the I mean, I don't know how many times I've talked to her off a ledge. And I'm like, just past the class. Like it's not that serious, which is what they say to me, right? Mom is not that serious. And I'm like, okay, well, it's not that serious. And they're like, No, it's that serious. And I'm like, well, it can't be both. this won't matter in 20 years. I do find it interesting as I'm having those conversations with young people like her. That, you know, when next time you go to the doctor's office and you see the degree up on the wall, I'm I'm glad to be in the doctor's office and the doctor has a degree, but nobody knows what that doctor got on his organic chemistry final. Like, so that's kind of how I try to position it with her that, like, it's great to care about your grades. It's great to be a good student. It's great to want to take pride in your. your education, I appreciate it. but let's really try to put some things into perspective of what, you know, is it gonna matter in 10 minutes, a year, or 10 years from now? Let's kind of dial it back because I think young people, when they do that, they're creating a lot of unnecessary anxiety. speaker-3: Yeah, a lot of pressure. And then you brought it up that mental wellness, that mental health, it really does. It's something that I feel like when we grew up was not really addressed. But now when you start to look back, you're like, ooh, that could have made a difference in some of the decisions and and the and the risks that I would have taken, right? If I felt more encouraged and less like that pressure and that anxiety. if someone listening on this podcast today feels a little stuck. What's one small step you think that they can take this week? speaker-2: if they feel stuck, I guess, you know, I like brainstorming. You know, I like using the internet for the greater good. And, you know, even if it's chat GPT, which the kids are all using now, and they're like, if you aren't using, you know, I've got people telling me they're putting their dinner recipe together with what's in their refrigerator. I'm like, holy moly, you guys are really taking this to the next level. but I think just brainstorming, really taking kind of a little bit of inventory about the things you like, maybe and it's just as important to know what you don't like, right? I think just taking that time and giving yourself some grace in the process. speaker-3: Some grace, some brainstorming, giving yourself some time. speaker-2: Feel it, feel it out. Don't make, you know, impulse. Don't be impulsive, but give it s give it some thought and see, you know, and try like you know, try things. speaker-3: Good. Get unstuck this week. What about you, Scott? If someone's feeling a little stuck this week, what's one small step that they can probably take? speaker-1: I mean, I do I I love what Marcel said about ChatGPT and all. I do think AI is a fantastic tool for brainstorming on things like that, in addition to to chatting with other people. But I do think that when you're stuck, one of the hardest things is to just take that first step into trying something else. And so sometimes taking that, I mean, it's just about taking that first bite, right? It's it's you might need to start with something easy, but do something just a little bit different. Right. And that can sometimes make all the difference. e even if it's, you know what, this weekend I'm stuck, I keep doing the same thing every single weekend. It's my same plan. I work, I come back, I clean, I go to sleep. Like if you're really feeling that, make a plan to, you know what, today I'm just gonna do it at Starbucks, right? Or do you know, just change the location a little bit, change something, and that starts your mind in a slightly different thinking mode. And just that different location can be the thing that helps kinda get you out of it and get you thinking about different things. So speaker-3: So good. That's when people say walk on grass, you know, feel the sand between your toes. Like touch the room. That's so good. All right. We're gonna start wrapping up here, but we do have a list of rapid fire questions. So I'm gonna ask you between two different things, and then and then just both of you just answer the option A or option B. For example, if you were talking to a young person, right? Somebody in high school or somebody like a young adult. and I said, choose between college or experience. So Scott, what would you say? College or experience? speaker-1: Ooh. speaker-3: Rapid fires. We I know we all want to say it depends on the person, right? But like just rapid fire. speaker-1: I go college still, but speaker-3: Okay. speaker-2: I go. speaker-3: All right. Curious curiosity or confidence? speaker-2: Competence. speaker-1: Yeah, confidence. speaker-3: All right. Dream job or great mentor. speaker-2: Great mentor. speaker-1: Yep, agree. Great mentor. speaker-3: You guys are lined up. All right. We have two more. Perfect plan or first step? I already know Marcella's answer. Perfect plan or first step? speaker-2: First step. speaker-1: Yeah, definitely first step. Better's the enemy a good speaker-2: I wanna say that there's a quote that goes with us. I have to share it because if any young person hears it, I find it to be true every day. It's where the mind goes, the body will follow. So I love that. speaker-3: That Scott he also said better is the enemy of good. So what a highlight. Perfect plan or first step. Better is the enemy of good and where the mind goes, your body flows or speaker-2: Follows. The body will follow. speaker-3: All right. And here's a final rapid fire question. Failure or regret? speaker-2: Failure. speaker-1: yeah, failure. speaker-3: You guys are in alignment. What a perfect match of guests today. That's awesome. Scott and Marcella, thank you so much. I want to finish where we started. If you had 60 seconds and we have enough for both of you, you had 60 seconds and every 18 year old in the country was listening. We would love that, by the way. So pass this on to all your young adults and your young engineers and anyone you come across, Marcella. what would you tell them? I'll start off with you, Marcella. If you have 60 seconds, what would you tell a young person today? speaker-2: Get off your phone. speaker-3: That's so good. That's less than speaker-2: Start living, you know, just get out and start living. Say hello to people in the elevator, hold a door for someone, practice kindness, be humble. go out and enjoy life. But yeah, get off your phone. speaker-3: Okay. Okay. I'm feeling speaker-2: Do that, I'm telling you. The rest the rest will follow as soon as you, you know, create your own path. Don't be looking at someone else's path. That's right. speaker-1: I think I think I need Marcel's advice. I need to get off my phone too all the speaker-2: Get off your phone. speaker-3: I feel a little called out myself. No, but Scott, what about what about you? What's something that you would tell a young person today if you had sixty seconds just to impact them? speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of what I said. Like life is I mean, you'll have many choices. You don't know where things will go, but follow your passions. keep your doors open as much as absolutely possible. Keep learning, and and keep looking for those opportunities and don't freak be afraid to take them when they do show up. So speaker-3: Yep. Amazing. Amazing. All right. Well, Scott Golden, Marcella DeSantis, thank you both so much for sharing your stories today. Such a fun conversation. And for our students, our young adults, those that are listening, remember this: no one has your exact path. You don't need perfect clarity to begin, like our guests have said today. Take that first step. Take you take the risks. you simply just need enough courage to take your next thoughtful step. Thank you for joining us for the Access Co-Leaders Summer Leadership Series. We'll see you next time. speaker-2: Thank you for having us.