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Enes Kanter Freedom Won't Stay Silent · Sports In America with David Greene

• DAVID GREENE, HOST: Okay, cool. Here we go. We're just going to start nice and easy. "Politics and sports have gone together for as long as one or the other has existed." Kevin Blackistone, why did you write those words? KEVIN BLACKISTONE: Because I traffic in facts and not fictions. DG: (Laughs) it's a good reason. KB: And sports and politics have been bedfellows since the first person challenged another person to a run to the nearest tree, you know, the Olympics, were set up to celebrate the gods. You know, maybe the most iconic sporting event, certainly in the Olympics, the marathon is based on a tale of a messenger soldier running 25, actually it was 25 miles I think at that time, to announce a victory of war. You know, the reason that athletes can use the national anthem and the American flag as a mixtape for their protest is because the government put the national anthem, at that time the Star Spangled Banner, Woodrow Wilson in World War I, into sports in the first place. And so there's just so many other, it's a very long thread that has drawn together sports and politics. DG: Well, I'm glad we have you on our show this week. This is Kevin Blackistone. He's a sports journalist, columnist, teaches journalism at the University of Maryland and thinks a lot about this. And on Sports in America today, we're kind of digging into this question. We're going to interview Enes Kanter Freedom, who's a former NBA player, who has mixed politics and sports, I would say. KB: Yes he has. DG: But wanted to start broad with you, especially because we're coming into this World Cup now. You know, maybe the biggest sporting event in the world, it's going to be on U.S. soil at interesting political times. Like, I just wonder like, what's your advice to athletes who are going to be playing in this World Cup and thinking about representing their countries and how much to let politics get into the sport? KB: I don't have a problem with it. You know, sports is the biggest platform on the planet. Has been for a long time, right? And you just mentioned the World Cup being the biggest global sporting event that there is. DG: Yeah. KB: And it's nationalistic, right? There are countries that come into this with questionable human rights records. There is a country this time which is hosting the World Cup, which has turned into a villain on the world stage, which is actually in violation of the Olympic Charter. But it seems that everyone has just let that pass by. DG: What do you mean is in violation of the Olympic Charter? KB: Well, the Olympic Charter has language in it that talks about sport as a peaceful endeavor and how those who don't uphold that should not be allowed to participate. But the United States of America, which has waged, which is committed extrajudicial killings in the Caribbean, with the Trump administration; has invaded and bombed, I don't know what, half a dozen countries; kdnapped the president of one country; waging war in Iran, is going to host this World Cup. And so this is the most political World Cup, I think, that the world has ever seen, given all that's going on and given how much the United States government has been involved in all that's going on. So if athletes want to bring their politics to this, I think they absolutely should. And I don't think that there's, you know, interesting thing about this is we don't ask this question. We don't wonder about this with any other actors, right? We don't wonder whether or not lawyers should have to sequester themselves from politics, right, or the people who still bag groceries at your groceries. We don't ask this of anyone else, but for some reason we do of those who participate in sports. DG: But isn't that because there's this tendency to think of sports as the escape? KB: Right! DG: And it's especially when the world feels hot and especially when you have questions about your country and what your country's doing and all this stuff that like, here's this thing that can bring us all together and we don't have to think about all the problems and tensions in the world. KB: But that is to ignore the fact that we always have with sports. I mean, the most celebrated sports story, probably in the United States, is Jackie Robinson. And that was an extremely political event, and we don't have a problem with that. Baseball loves to celebrate that. And if you go back in time... DG: You're saying a political event because it was it was breaking the race barrier? I mean that... KB: Because it was breaking the race barrier. Because it reminded people, although we easily forget, that for 60 years, Major League Baseball, which somehow grew into what we like to call America's pastime, had walled itself off from allowing the participation of the progeny of enslaved Africans. That in fact, at one time, it was integrated, but it followed Jim Crow, it didn't attack Jim Crow. And so I think that's one of the, you know, to me, as I've written about sports and really gotten involved in academia and really studied sports, you know that's one of things that I always like to talk about. Because we give sports this— we treat it as some sort of imprimatur to social justice. But, in fact, sports has been as much a part of social injustice as anything. It has always followed the trends. It has never really forged its own path. DG: I wonder, like this whole escape thing, is there kind of a danger in us assuming that or thinking that, like you wrote a piece recently about how you wish the NFL would throw a flag on the Pentagon, but they probably won't, because we've seen these images of the U.S. military and the war in Iran using images of games from the NFL. Very few players have complained about this. Like what— why does that bother you? And what do you see is at stake if the NFL doesn't stand up and say, like, Hey, I mean, you made the point, like at the end of every NFL broadcast, it says like, you know, this cannot be rebroadcast without the expressed and written consent of the NFL, but yet they seem to be okay with the, you know, the Trump administration using images from games to promote a policy. KB: Exactly. You know, what my dream would be would be that players would push back and say that this is an affront to us, or this is a misuse of our image, unfortunately that's not going to happen. But they can get away with it. And with the NFL in particular, they've been in bed with the military for I don't know, 60 years. DG: That's what you said, this is not a surprise, this is not a new thing at all. KB: No, they embraced the flyovers and the gigantic flags and military appreciation days. DG: Is there anything wrong with that? I mean, is there, what's not okay with that to you? KB: Well, one of the things that is uncomfortable for me about that is that the military is a very serious endeavor. I mean, they wage war against people and also defend against those who would war against their countries. People get killed. It's a very seriously thing. And I think that when we combine sports with the military in that sense. I think we are desensitizing people to what war is and to what the military actually does. And I think that's dangerous. You know, because you travel the world, and those people who do travel the word know. We've been in war zones before. You know, we're very lucky in this country that a war has not landed at our front steps. But for the rest of the world, that's not the case. DG: It's not a game. KB: It's not a game, Europe, Africa, Asia, take your pick. Yeah, it's not a a game so I think that's dangerous. DG: That kind of sets up the conversation we're about to hear with Enes Kanter Freedom, NBA player. No offense to him, not like a megastar kind of a journeyman going from one team to another, but really tried to embrace his platform. You know, he's from Turkey, spoke out against human rights violations in Turkey, putting his own family at risk. Yeah. I mean, the interesting thing to me is as we listen to this, you know, his critics have more recently said that he's, they sort of see him as a pawn of the right. You know, he's sort of been seen as the anti-LeBron NBA player who is not criticizing, you know, the Trump administration and Republicans for, you know and fighting for social justice in a way that we've heard from a lot of other athletes. He is like, you know, "So proud to be an American" and Tucker Carlson even said like. I wish other NBA players would be as proud to be an American as you are, which carries all sorts of like, I think racist baggage going on there. KB: Right. DG: But like, is it okay? Like, is, you know, if he's, maybe if he is an athlete who's fighting for something that you may or may not believe in, he is fighting for something and owning this platform. KB: Absolutely, I champion people like Enes Kanter Freedom. You know, I wrote a piece when Harrison Butker, the kicker with Kansas City... DG: Mm-hmm KB: Ccaught a lot of grief because of the commencement address that he gave and what he said about women. But, you know, he embraced his ideas, whether you agree or disagree with them. He went so far as to start a political pact to support a candidate who aligned with his viewpoints. He understands the platform, the league lights that are on sports. I'm not mad at Harrison Butker. I'm mad at all the other athletes, though, who won't do what Hurricane Butker did, and that is to embrace whatever political points they have that they may be passionate about and have studied up on and can speak about in an intelligent way and use their platform, as Harrison Butcher did, to make people aware. So, Harrison has done it, Enes has done, others have done it. Maya Moore stepped away from as fabulous a career as you could have in professional sports to look into how the justice system works unfairly and freed a man who became her husband from a wrongful sentence in prison. So those athletes, there are athletes who realize that. And so I champion those who do, whether I agree with their point of view or not. Athletes have done this consistently. [MUSIC\] KB: It's an unusual platform. Most of us do not have that platform. The best that we can do is stand on a corner on a milk crate and yell and scream through a bullhorn, right? Or you can get on social media now, which is essentially the... DG: Different kind of milk crate. Yeah, different kind of milkcrate but still, yeah. Well, I'll jump out there and be on a milk crate and grab a bullhorn with you anytime, Kevin. KB: Good, love that. DG: Kevin Blackstone is a sports journalist, columnist, teaches journalism at the University of Maryland. Kevin, really appreciate it, thank you. KB: Thanks, David. DG: Coming up next, we will hear our conversation with former NBA player Enes Kanter Freedom here on Sports in America. This is Sports in America, I'm David Greene, and here's a question we keep coming back to. Can sports and politics ever be kept separate? [MUSIC] DG: Some people would say, yeah, 100% they can, and that they should be kept separate, that sports are meant to be an escape from real-life worries and anxieties. I mean, I can get behind that; it makes sense, but there are others who don't agree, for whom politics and sports can't be separated at all. ENES KANTER FREEDOM: They're like, well, the athletes should stay away from politics. I'm like, that is not, this is not politics. This is human rights. DG: Even when speaking out means serious consequences for yourself. EKF: They revoked my passport, they put my name on Interpol list. DG: And the people closest to you. EKF: Literally, they put him in jail because of— I was outspoken, that was the reason that he was in jail DG: Enes Kanter Freedom played 11 seasons in the NBA for five different teams, including the Boston Celtics and New York Knicks. He built a reputation, not just as a dominant rebounder and post-scorer, but also as an advocate who put human rights at the forefront of every conversation. Last year, he came out with an autobiography about his activism called "In the Name of Freedom: A Political Dissident's Fight for Human Rights in the NBA and Around the World." He grew up in Turkey, where he says human rights violations were an everyday phenomenon. Arbitrary arrests, restrictions on journalism and free speech, police using excessive force, these were all part of life in Turkey. And throughout his career, he just refused to let that go. EKF: I feel like basketball was a god gift, but I wanted to use it not for any political reasons, but literally for human rights reasons. DG: But his activism has not come without controversy. Enes says he's politically neutral, that he just cares about human rights, but he's come under fire for seeming to align himself with President Donald Trump and other right-wing media personalities. We're gonna get into all of this today on Sports in America, as we have a conversation with Enes Kanter Freedom. Emes, so nice to meet you. EKF: Of course, man. No, thank you for having me, man, nice to meet you on here. DG: Yeah, no, I really appreciate it. I covered the White House for years. I was based in Moscow for three years. I've been to Turkey. EKF: Beautiful place, man. Politically, it's pretty crazy, but it's a beautiful place. DG: Yeah, it's so beautiful. The politics. I really, it sounds like your life has been intertwined. So I really want to, I want to hear all about that. Do you mind starting with, I wanna hear a little bit about your childhood. I know you were born in Switzerland and then moved to Turkey and grew up a lot of your life there, but what do you remember about Turkey and those early childhood days? EKF: Of course, you know, so I was born in Switzerland. My dad is a scientist, and because of his job, we, you know, my mom and dad moved to Switzerland from Turkey, and they lived there a while. That's where I was born, Zurich, Switzerland. I lived there for one year, came back to Turkey, and I lived in east side of Turkey, the city called Van, V-A-N, and pretty much you know, grew up there. It was a very difficult childhood. It's because of the reason was when I was, you know, growing up, there was this huge propaganda, you know, against America and the West. And I remember one day I went downstairs to play with my friends and my little friends who were not even teenagers. They were burning American flags, and they were breaking... DG: Oh man. wow. EKF: They were breaking crosses, right? And I'm like, "Guys, what are you doing?" They said, "Well, we should hate America. They're evil. They're terrible people." And then I remember they gave me a flag to burn it. They gave me a flag, they gave me a lighter, they said, "Burn it," and I looked down. I'm like, this is not the right thing to do. I threw the flag down, I threw the lighter on the ground, and I ran upstairs to my mom. I was like, "Mom, my friends are telling me they hate America, hate Christian people, Jewish people, what do I do?" My mom said, "I am not gonna tell you what to do, but do not hate anyone before you meet them." So that day, I gave a promise to my mom. I was like, "Mom, I promise I'm not going to hate anyone before I meet them." DG: It's an incredible story, and what a beautiful kind of way to live your life. Because I feel like in our society, in our world today, one of the biggest ills that we have is jumping into feeling, having feelings about someone before you actually understand why they believe what they do. EKF: Exactly, but no, I'm glad that my family was very well educated. And I remember like throughout my whole life, they were trying to educate me as much as they could, and they did, I think, a really good job. And I remember after I moved to Istanbul, obviously, things were a little better, but it was still so toxic. So the environment that I was growing up in was getting toxic and more toxic every day. I remember one day my dad told me like, "Hey, you're going to America to get your education." DG: While his dad wanted him to go to the U.S. to earn an education, Enes just wanted to play sports. He was a teenager when he first started playing basketball and was quickly offered a spot on a professional team in his home country. But he chose to turn them down and follow his father's dream. He would play basketball and go to school in the United States. Okay, so you had the chance to play basketball elsewhere, but it sounds like you were just determined to get to the United States. EKF: Yeah. I mean, so it was a big decision for me because, like when I was, you know, 16 years old— So in Europe, they literally like start paying you when you are 14, 15 years old. DG: That's amazing. EKF: And it's huge, you know. DG: Must be enticing, I mean, to be a teenager and to have the chance to... EKF: And not like small money too, like big money, right? Obviously, it depends on how good you are or whatever. So when I told my team, Fenerbahçe, I don't know if you know the team or not, the biggest club team in Turkey. When I told them I'm going to America, they literally offer me millions of dollars. And I was like, if I take this money, like me and my family set for life. But then, before I started to play basketball, my dad was like, "I need you to give me a promise. Promises that I needed to be a good student before becoming a basketball player." So that's why I literally turned down millions of dollars at the age of 17. DG: A history of conflict between the United States and countries in the Middle East meant that Enes didn't have a great impression of Americans, but he promised his mom he would give strangers a shot, that he wouldn't hate anyone before he got to know them. At his first basketball practice in the U.S., that promise was put to the test. [MUSIC] EKF: So when I came here for the first time, I remember my first high school practice, two of my teammates who were really Christians, they were like, "Well, we know that you just got here. We would like to take you out to a mosque and go get some halal food." And that little offer just put a question mark in my head. I'm like, wow, that's not what I've been taught back home. I remember I walked out of the locker room, and I was like, I remember the promise. I came back, I was like, you know what? I'm coming. I was like what do I have to lose. They took me to a mosque. They actually waited for me to pray. They took their shoes off. They were very respectful, and then we went to go get some Turkish food, Turkish restaurants. And that little approach put a question mark in my head. That question mark was like, hmm, for the last 17 years, my whole life, my whole childhood, right, I thought that every American is evil. Or my teammates put a little question mark in my head. DG: So, Enes, help me understand, like you're 17 years old, you're having these kind of like very mind-opening experiences being in an entirely new country and culture, kind of dealing with some of the assumptions that you grew up with. Like that's a lot on its own. And oh, by the way, you're trying to play basketball at like the highest level possible with all of these expectations. Like what, how did you balance, you know, sports and the basketball court and having these life experiences at the same time? EKF: You know, basketball was so easy for me because, like, think about, like when I was 14, 15 years old back in Turkey, I was playing against guys that were 30, 35. I was played against grown men, you know. So, like, because of— obviously, if you're in Europe, if you're playing like a club team, you are same time you're playing like a senior team. So, like, I was already like, better than pretty much like everyone else in high school in America. So, basketball was never a problem. Everything else was just, was too much. The language, the culture difference, the food, the people, and so, to me it was just a very, everything was just shock, cultural shock, the food shock, it was, it's just very difficult. DG: So basketball was almost, I don't want to go too far, but like almost like an afterthought. EKF: Oh yeah, I know I was gonna play in NBA one day. I know, because when I came to America for the first time, I literally played EuroLeague against 30, 35-year-old men, and I was just literally like, I was really good there. So when I came to America, I was already had a grown man's body and mentality, so basketball was never an issue. DG: When it came to immigrating across the world, playing basketball was supposed to be the easy part for Enes, but there was one big problem. He had already played professionally in Turkey and earned a salary, which disqualified him from most high school and college programs. EKF: So I had a really tough two years because so when you play, well now the NCAA changed the rules now, but when you play professional in overseas, you're not really allowed to play high school basketball or college basketball in America. So I couldn't play high-school basketball in America. I was just practicing. DG: You weren't on a team in high school? You were just practicing on your own? EKF: I no— I signed with a prep school team. So with the prep school teams, like the rules are different. So I had to play a prep-school team because I couldn't play high school team because of the all the rules the NBA have. And then after that, I was like, you know what? High school, just whatever. I'm just gonna play college basketball. And I know that I'm good enough to dominate everyone. And I will show everyone that I am good enough. So I signed with Kentucky, Coach Calipari. I had amazing teammates. And then NCAA came back and said, "Enes Kanter is permanently ineligible from playing college basketball." And I'm like thinking, I just turned down millions of dollars in overseas to just to come here and play high school and college basketball, so these people are telling me that I'm not even allowed to practice. Forget about playing basketball. At one point, NCAA came and said, "Enes, you're not even allow to practice." So the Kentucky and Coach Cal made me an assistant coach so I could practice with the team. He was like, he was still part of our family. You're a coach now, so just get better at practice. Every practice is your game. So, and then after that, you just get ready for the draft. So I was getting ready for the draft. So no high school, no college basketball. I was like you know what, forget about it, focus on NBA. [MUSIC] DG: Despite the obstacles he faced getting into college basketball, the draft went really well for Enes. In 2011, he went third overall to the Utah Jazz. When you get drafted so high up by the Utah Jazz, just listening to how you were going into this, what were the emotions? Was it kind of like, oh, yes, this is what I expected? Was it excitement? What were you feeling? EKF: I got drafted, third pick overall by Utah Jazz 2011, and I'm like, my God, finally. I shook David Stern's hand, and finally have a team. It was an amazing team for me because no outside distraction. Mormons, amazing people, peaceful, no nightlife. You know, you can't even find coffee or tea to drink because I mean, they're very strict, very, very kind people. So I was just like literally focused on basketball for a while, and then I was back to playing games, you know. DG: That's an interesting window into NBA life, because I assume that wherever you're playing, I mean, there are some things that are just all the same, but you're saying, because of the Mormon influence in Salt Lake City, like, playing for the Jazz is a very different experience than for other teams. EKF: It was actually a very positive experience because, like, I had many teammates that I played in, you know, in college, whether I played against in practice or whatever, that like they got drafted by LA, the Lakers, the Heat, Miami Heat, or some other like New York Knicks, some really big places. But then there was so much outside distraction. So, for me, playing for Utah Jazz, it was just so amazing because there was no clubbing. No going to bars, everyone shut down, everything shut down by like what? Like 9 p.m., whatever. There was one Cheesecake Factory that was open like till like 10, 11, and every player. DG: Thank goodness! EKF: Yeah. Every player was going there after the games. For me, as a rookie coming to the league for the first time, it was a very nice experience. My mom was very happy. DG: Enes' career in the NBA has been marked by just constant movement from one team to another. The longest time he spent on any NBA team was his four years with the Utah Jazz. From there, he moved around a lot, and his choices began to be motivated by his growing desire to become an activist. So you did not stay in Utah forever, though. We should say, like, I hope this isn't a negative word, tell me if it is, but like you were kind of a journeyman in the NBA. I mean Utah, Celtics, Portland, Oklahoma City, the Knicks. Yeah. Well, I mean, like what is the experience of journeymen in a professional league like the NBA feel like constantly moving from one team to another? EKF: Yeah, I liked it a lot because, you know, I really wanted to, especially after I started to speak out about some of the human rights violations around the world. I really wanted, like all the fans and everyone else, to get to understand my life story. You know, I remember there was one point, like I was about to sign between Portland and Celtics, and Portland just offered me like what? Whatever like the Southeast was offering me, Portland offered me plus $10 million. And I remember my agent called me, he's like, "I think we know who we're picking." I was like, "Listen, I understand to you, money is so important, whatever, but I think I'm gonna go with Boston." He's like, "What are you talking about?" I was like, "Listen, Boston, one of the biggest market, right? And there's so many important people that comes out from universities like Harvard, MIT, Boston College, or whatever, Boston University. So I want those people, those students, to know about my story too." And I turned down so much money with Portland and signed with Boston. But God has blessed me definitely with so many amazing players with amazing teams. Like after Utah, I signed with Oklahoma. I get to play with players like Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Steven Adams, Serge Ibaka. And we made it to conference finals. And then after that, you know, I signed with, I got traded to New York Knicks with Melo, you know, and every person in New York heard about that trade. When I started to play for, with the Knicks and my story was everywhere. DG: In a weird way, the NBA served as a kind of training ground for Enes starting to speak out. What's the on-the-court moment that stands out in your career, like the one moment that really sticks with you? EKF: The craziest moment was when I was playing with the Knicks, my second year, Coach Fizdale called me up in his room and said, listen, you know, that was the year that Porziņģis didn't play because he tore his ACL. DG: All right, let's back up for just a minute. Enes is talking there about Kristaps Porziņģis, who went fourth overall to the Knicks in 2015 with really high expectations and promise, but he only got to play in New York for a few years. He tore his ACL in 2018, and then the following year, the Knicks traded him to Dallas, hoping to attract even bigger talent to their team, like star Kevin Durant or brand new power forward at the time, Zion Williamson. Neither of those hopes panned out for the Knicks. EKF: So he was like, "Listen, man, this is what happens when you're a good player playing in a bad team. From now on, we're gonna try to get the best draft pick. We're gonna try to lose. You know, you can get mad at me, you can take my frustration out of me, but from now on we're going to sit you." And that's my contract year, and I'm like, these people literally telling me that they're gonna lose on purpose. So that was the year that they missed out on Zion. And so they really wanted to get Zion Williamson. So... DG: All of us fans like wonder like it was a specifically like we're going to we're going to tank the season because we want to get the highest draft pick. EKF: So many conversations with Scott Perry, he was the GM, Coach Fizdale, he was the head coach, and I'm like, "Listen, man, I understand, I'm a player, I'm not getting paid to lose." Yeah, Ima go out there and do my- DG: And you're in a year where you're expecting a bigger contract afterwards. Like, so it's critical that you look good on the court. [MUSIC] EKF: Exactly. So that was the year that like just it was just very frustrating. So they started to— I started to sit. I did not play eight games in a row, and I, if you know who I am, I'm just not gonna just sit there and be quiet, so I was just like going to New York media every day, and I'm like the reason I'm not playing because they're trying to lose on purpose. They're trying tank. ENES KANTER FREEDOM IN AN INTERVIEW: I'm pretty messed up because they just told me this morning that I'm starting coming to the game. Didn't even play. EKF: So you know that the New York media is trying to literally burn the Knicks in every situation possible. So it was everywhere. And many times Scott Perry and Coach Fizdale told me to shut up, do not talk about this, it's going to affect your contract. I was like, listen, I don't care because I'm a competitor and I want those fans to know that you guys trying to lose on purpose. I said that to Coach Fizdale. And so there are still actual videos out there, so the whole crowd started the chant, "We want Kanter." \[FANS CHANTING "WE WANT KANTER"\] ANNOUNCER 1: Kanter sitting at the end of the Knicks bench, not playing in the last four games. ANNOUNCER 2: The previous game, Kennedy were right behind us with the Kanter chants. EKF: And I knew as soon as that they're gonna, there was gonna be so much pressure on them, they're going to have to put me in a game. And I would just wanted to make sure that it happened with the Knicks because that was going to be my last game forever with the Knicks. So the Coach Fizdale put me in a game, and I'm like, this is my last game ever. I want to just thank the fans. ANNOUNCER: Kanter about to get kissed to the Knicks logo at center court. Crowd cheering everything that he does. EKF: So I literally get on my knees and kiss the Knicks logo, and then the whole crowd just went crazy, and that was the I think the last game that I ever played, because the next day— well, I think like a couple of days later was the trade deadline. That's when they released me, and they even said, "Listen, we're gonna try to trade you, but if not, we're just gonna release you." I was like, "Perfect," and that's when they released me. That's when I signed with Portland Trailblazers, we made the conference finals, and one of the reporter was like, "Well, you had a tough journey coming here. What do you think?" I was like, "Well, I just want to start with thanking the Knicks for allowing me to just..." DG: (Laughs) For giving me the chance to go to the playoffs this year. EKF: I had to troll, man, but that's actually what happens. But no players will talk about it, because the reason is if they talk about it, they know that they're not going to get a good contract, because they're going to— the other GM is going to think like, well, you know, he's sharing... DG: He's gonna do this here too, so. EKF: Exactly, what's happened in the locker room, but like I have to share it because these people literally they were telling me we're gonna sit you because we want to get Zion Williamson. I was like, oh, that's disgusting, I'm gonna expose you. DG: We’ll be right back with more from former NBA player and human rights activist Enes Kanter Freedom, here on Sports in America. Stay with us. This is Sports in America, and we’re back with former NBA player and human rights activist Enes Kanter Freedom. While Enes was learning to stand up to Knicks management, he had his sights set a lot higher. In his home country of Turkey, then Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his administration were embroiled in a corruption scandal, facing allegations of bribery and a massive money laundering scheme across the country's federal government. When journalists, police officers, and judges started to investigate and prosecute these crimes, the federal government ordered their arrest. Enes decided to speak out against the Turkish president, a move that would have powerful and personal consequences for Enes. So the leader of Turkey, President Erdoğan, has been a target of a lot of your activism and complaints. For people who don't follow Turkish politics and world politics that closely, what is it about Erdoğan that you want the world to know and that you have a problem with? EKF: So, there was a big corruption scandal happening in Turkey back in 2013. That's when they caught Erdoğan, some of his family members, and some of the people in the Turkish parliament. BROADCASTER: The sprawling corruption scandal in Turkey is unraveling fast as part of a probe into allegations of illegal money transfers to Iran and bribery for construction projects. Under fire, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is battening down the hatches, replacing half... EKF: And after that, he started to go around and putting innocent people in jail. He put, you know, journalists, prosecutors. He started to shut down media outlets. And I was like, I don't care who you are, but if you are fighting against free media, I'm going to say something. So that was the first time I put a tweet out there, right? Because of the NBA platform, it became a conversation in America, in Turkey and Middle East, and also Europe. So I'm like, even one simple, one simple tweet can affect this much from now, and I'm gonna stop paying attention about what's going on in Turkey. So I remember after that, my teammates used to go out, and I used to go back to my hotel, I started to study the relationship between America and Turkey, the things that are happening in Middle East, Europe, NATO. So the more I studied, the more I realized I was like, I gotta speak up, man. I started to speak up. The big platform started to give me a voice. And the more I speak up, the more that really pissed off the Turkish government. [MUSIC] EKF: They sent so much like warnings, you know, they, my dad, we were just talking about him. He was one of the biggest scientists in Turkey. They fired him. My sister, she went to medical school for six years, and she still cannot find a job. I think the saddest one was my little brother because he was, he wanted to be like his big brother playing NBA. He was playing basketball, but he was getting kicked out of every team because of the same last name. So they were getting affected so much they had to put a statement out there and said we are disowning Enes. The letter actually still out there on Google. DG: This is the letter that your father... EKF: Disown me. DG: Wrote disowning you. Do you believe that he wanted to disown you, or do you think he was pressured by the Turkish government? EKF: No, he pressured a lot by the Turkish government, and then after that, the Turkish government didn't believe that. They sent police to my house in Turkey, and they raided the whole house, and they took every electronics away. Phones, computers, laptops, iPads, because... DG: Because your father disowning you wasn't enough for them. I mean, they wanted to punish him even more. EKF: Well, because they wanted to see if I'm still in contact with my family or not. They couldn't find no evidence. They still took my dad in jail for a while. But we put so much pressure from with NBA, some of the players, media, politicians. They had to let him go. But then after that, you know, the Turkish government revoke my passport. They put my name on Interpol list. So in their eyes, I'm now an international criminal. I had a conversation with the, you know, some of the people in the State Department here. They gave me a list. I am now only allowed to travel to 29 countries in the world. If anywhere else, I will be deported back to Turkey because of the extradition deal. DG: And have you been able to contact your family at all? I mean, I just think about those early stories of how much your dad and mom meant to you and the advice they gave you. EKF: So I have a brother who plays basketball overseas. So I had a conversation with him, and they— he has conversations with my family. Because if it goes from directly from me to my family in Turkish governments eyes, it's an act of terrorism. So, and they do listen all the phones and all that, whatever. At one point, they even stopped showing the NBA teams that I played for in Turkey. And the fans started to get mad at me. I'm like, I am, what did I do, you know? So, they revoke my passport. They put my name on Interpol list. The death threats at one point was so much when I was playing for Portland, I had to stay in a hotel room. And when I was on a road game, they came to my hotel, the FBI came to my hotel room, they set up this thing called a panic button. They said, whenever you feel uncomfortable, whenever you feel threatened, push that button, and we'll be there in two, three minutes, you know. DG: Oh my god. They were worried that the Erdoğan government was going to somehow find you in the U.S.? EKF: Because there was so much death threats out there. And then just recently, a couple of years ago, I went to Vatican, had an amazing meeting with the Pope. And right after that meeting, it became obviously viral, and the Turkish government put a bounty on my head. This is actually out there on the internet. You can look it up. $500,000 bounty, and the next day FBI called me, they said, "Listen, this will trigger so many bad people." I believe they meant like mafias or some like serial killers, maybe. They said, we need you to come back to U.S. immediately. So literally the next flight, I got on a flight, I came to America. So the things have been definitely challenging, but I know that it's for a good cause. DG: I mean, I will say, I still remember, I interviewed Erdoğan in 2011. I think he was still prime minister then. It was a really interesting period because he and Assad in Syria were just starting to have tensions. He had been just lambasting Israel for a lot of reasons, and I was challenging him in this hotel room on some of his decisions, and like the death stare from him. Like I was like, I am a U.S. citizen. I'm in my own country. I'm in New York City. I am a free independent journalist, but there was something about, I don't know those eyes where I— it is one of the most memorable interviews in my career because I was like, if I make you too mad, like I am, I don't feel safe. And that feels crazy, but... EKF: No, he's a very bad man. [MUSIC] DG: Imagine a conversation with your father if you could have one like, do you think? He would say to you. "I'm glad that you have fought this fight. Even if it meant that I had to serve time in prison." Like what—how do you imagine that conversation going? EKF: I know my mom will be proud. My dad, I'm not sure, because he really wanted me to be like the best basketball player ever that came out of Turkey. He wanted me to be focused on basketball. He cared about, obviously, the things that are bigger than basketball, but my mom was just a bigger activist, I would say. So I don't know how that conversation will go with my dad, but I know with my mom, she would definitely be proud DG: Do you feel some guilt that your dad spent time in prison, and maybe your advocacy played some role? EKF: My advocacy definitely played a very big, one and only role, because they were literally accusing of nothing. Literally, they put him in jail because of I was outspoken, that was the reason that he was in jail, but like I said again, man, I know what I'm doing is right because I don't talk about politics. I talk about human rights and political prisoners. No one can come out and say well don't talk about political prisoners, don't think about human-rights violations. Like, I feel like that's just everyone's duty in life to be the voice of voiceless people out there. So it is 100% yes I played the biggest role, I guess, but I mean, I believe it's bigger than my family. DG: In 2021, Enes officially became a US citizen and officially changed his last name to Freedom to represent his dedication to human rights. The following year, he was traded from the Celtics to the Houston Rockets, always on the move, but subsequently, he was waived. He hasn't been signed by an NBA team since then. And he has said he suspects this is a forced retirement that's related to his activism. Enes has also stirred up some controversy in recent years. That's because he has seemed to be a vocal supporter of President Donald Trump, attending the 2024 Republican National Convention and also expressing support for Trump and interest in working with his administration. You wrote a piece in The Atlantic, and you wrote that "authoritarian strongmen are getting stronger, yet far too many celebrities, athletes and corporations still choose their money over their morals." I want to go there with you. There are a lot of people who see Donald Trump as the classic example of a strongman. I know that you supported him for president in 2024 and have met with him and been seen with him. For people who see that as a total contradiction that you are fighting strongmen around the world, but supporting Donald Trump, what would you say to them? EKF: So, I did not actually support anyone. I mean, I met with him. When I met with him, I had a conversation with him about the problems that are happening in Turkey, and I did say that I can't wait to work with you, but that was all about human rights. I met the Clintons. I met with people around Biden. I even sent him a jersey. I met with many people in the Obama administration, but that doesn't mean I support them. Like I said again, I feel like my message is so pure, it's above politics. So I did not support anyone. So no, I did not really support any presidential candidate. I meet with them a lot because I used to live in D.C. for two years, and I literally met with everyone, people on both sides. But like I said, again, just because of Donald Trump, who was out there all the time and for some people is a very extreme name, that one was just, just bullwop, you know. DG: Do you regret some of the things that fed that narrative, if you're saying it's not true? Like, you know, I saw an interview with you at the Republican National Convention and photos with Trump. Like, do you wish that you hadn't fed that narrative ? EKF: But I'm like, I'll take pictures of everyone, like literally, because like if you go on Google right now, and if you put "Enes Kanter Clinton's," you will see my picture with Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton. If you put "Enes Kanter Biden," you would literally see me send my jersey, you know? So, like I literally meet with, I met with Nancy Pelosi, I meet with Gavin Newsom, I met with Kathy Hochul, I met with DeSantis. DG: Well, let's set that aside, like let's— the idea of a strongman like as you watch what's happening right now, do you believe the narrative that a lot of Americans are concerned about, that we are watching sort of a strong man style of politics take hold in our country? EKF: It's definitely a very different than America never seen before, you know, but if you look throughout the world right now, I think dealing with some of the authoritarian regimes, and I guess dictatorships, you kind of have to be that way, you know, because I believe if Trump wasn't in office, China would've invade Taiwan. And Russia will definitely even will go more crazy towards Ukraine. Iran would have just gone nuts on every other country that will go against them, you know? So like, if it's controllable, I do think it's a good thing. Also, like, in America, I don't think there could be a dictatorship because you know, rules and laws, you have the Supreme Court, you have the Congress, and you have the Senate, and then if you don't do well, then you're going to lose the midterm elections. So I don't think that there's going to be a dictatorship in America. But I do think that we do need definitely need a strongman in office to scare other dictatorships out there. [MUSIC] DG: Here's my last question, Enes. We might disagree on so much, but sports are something that we can all show up for together. By taking a stand, by athletes, like fighting for issues, supporting different politicians, there's a world in which that undermines that sports is a place where you don't have to think about politics. You don't think about things that divide you. I don't know. What is your reaction to that? EKF: True. You know, actually, I had so many conversations with Americans, and they even said like, you know, we are going through so many difficulties throughout the day. And when I come home, I just want to have my drink in my hand and just watch the NBA, watch my favorite team to play, you know. I don't want to see the players talking about other than sports. It's kind of understandable, yes, because we are kind of like entertainers out there, and we're just like entertain people, I guess. But at the same time, I do think that like, we need to have a better future and brighter future. And to do that, we have to somehow educate the youth, educate the kids out there. Because if there's no America, if there is no future in America one day, then China is next. And I just don't, I don't wanna think about what China would do to a free world. You know, so I kind of understand it, but at the same time, I do believe that athletes have an amazing role in our society. DG: Enes, it's been a real pleasure. I really appreciate you taking time to chat with me. EKF: Of course, man, thank you for having me. [MUSIC] DG: Next time on Sports in America: before Robert Parish became the silent backbone of the 80’s Celtics dynasty, he was a shy kid from Louisiana trying to learn the basics of basketball ROBERT PARISH: I couldn't etch it. I couldn't hold it. I couldn't dribble it. All I could do was look at it. DG: From brutal 1980s rivalries and championships in Boston… to controversy and the darker moments that complicate his legacy, Parish reflects on a life shaped by toughness — on and off the court. RP: That's the advice I always give all the young players that would join our team…. Stay ready. Be ready. DG: That’s next time on Sports in America. This is Sports in America. I'm your host, David Greene. Our executive producers are Joan Isabella and Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa. Our engineer is Mike Villers. Our talent booker is Britt Kahn. Our tile artwork was created by Bea Walling. Sports in America is a production of WHYY in Philadelphia and is distributed by PRX. Some of our interviews were originally created by Religion of Sports, with special thanks to Adam Schlossman. You can find Sports in America on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeartRadio app, you know, wherever you get your podcasts. And we also want to hear from you. How about you drop us a line? You can write us at sportsinamerica@whyy.org. That's sportsinamerica@whyy.org. Thanks everybody, and we'll see you next time for Sports in America.