Latest / Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers / 59: The Mental Toll of Constantly Trying to Please Others with Kellyn Legath

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59: The Mental Toll of Constantly Trying to Please Others with Kellyn Legath · Inner Work With MaryAnn Walker: Life Coach for People Pleasers

• 0:20
  MaryAnn: Well, hello and welcome back.
• 0:21
  MaryAnn: So I am so excited for today's guest.
• 0:24
  MaryAnn: I have Kellen Leggett on the show.
• 0:26
  MaryAnn: Hello, Kellen.
• 0:28
  MaryAnn: Hi, I'm so happy to be here.
• 0:30
  MaryAnn: Oh, I'm so glad you're here.
• 0:31
  MaryAnn: So I have had the honor and privilege of coaching with Kellen back and forth.
• 0:35
  MaryAnn: We've kind of coached each other and I can tell you that she is both compassionate and insightful and I just love her.
• 0:41
  MaryAnn: So yeah, she and I certified together.
• 0:44
  MaryAnn: And so we go way back to the.
• 0:46
  MaryAnn: baby days of coaching, right?
• 0:49
  Kellyn: It feels like we've been on this journey together for like 10 years, although it's been like two.
• 0:55
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 0:55
  MaryAnn: So it's just been super fun to kind of just see the evolution of both of our practices and personal development and.
• 1:01
  MaryAnn: It's just fun to have other people along for the ride.
• 1:03
  MaryAnn: So I love it.
• 1:04
  MaryAnn: It's kind of just fun to have a friend to chat with and workshop different things with.
• 1:08
  MaryAnn: And so I am excited to have her on and share her with the rest of you.
• 1:12
  MaryAnn: So Kellen is a coach that she works with helping humans to overcome their anxious thoughts and build self worth so they can live life with more clarity.
• 1:21
  MaryAnn: And purpose.
• 1:21
  MaryAnn: And so, yeah, I'm really excited to explore some ideas with her today.
• 1:25
  MaryAnn: So today we're going to kind of be talking about the correlation between anxiety and people pleasing, and I'm kind of excited about this.
• 1:32
  MaryAnn: So yeah, let's hear it.
• 1:34
  MaryAnn: Kellen, what is the correlation between anxiety and people pleasing?
• 1:38
  Kellyn: Yes.
• 1:39
  Kellyn: You know, it's so great, especially, you know, to talk to you because the people that you've been serving are people pleasers and so much of.
• 1:47
  Kellyn: The types of people that I've been working with are anxious and there's a lot of crossover.
• 1:51
  Kellyn: I think as we started our journey, we both were like, I think we sort of have a lot of the same people that we're talking to.
• 1:58
  Kellyn: And it's because of this correlation that, you know, essentially what happens is people attempt to please others.
• 2:06
  Kellyn: Because they feel anxious about upsetting them or fitting in.
• 2:10
  Kellyn: It's very much like a social anxiety that comes up.
• 2:14
  Kellyn: Um, but in, in general, I think the, the best way to explain it is that like people pleasing is an anxiety response.
• 2:21
  Kellyn: Right.
• 2:22
  Kellyn: Hmm.
• 2:22
  Kellyn: Is that, what you've been seeing as you've been, been coaching with people that they're responding to things and, and Yeah.
• 2:29
  MaryAnn: And I love that you kind of'cause it, it's, makes it easier when you put the words around it.
• 2:33
  MaryAnn: Right?
• 2:33
  MaryAnn: So it is interesting to think about people pleasing through that lens of it being an anxiety response.
• 2:38
  MaryAnn: 'cause I think you're spot on that so often people are feeling anxious.
• 2:43
  MaryAnn: And because they feel like they have to do these things for other people, they must make everybody else happy.
• 2:48
  MaryAnn: And yeah, it's kind of a wild ride.
• 2:51
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 2:51
  MaryAnn: But I don't think that people oftentimes make that correlation that there is a correlation between the two.
• 2:56
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 2:56
  Kellyn: Right.
• 2:56
  Kellyn: And think about your mind.
• 2:58
  Kellyn: You're like, Oh my gosh, I want this person to be happy with, with me.
• 3:01
  Kellyn: Right.
• 3:02
  Kellyn: And right away, that thought just creates anxiety within you.
• 3:06
  Kellyn: Oh my gosh.
• 3:07
  Kellyn: Like I want.
• 3:08
  Kellyn: I want this to happen, right?
• 3:09
  Kellyn: It's very, it's very much like a, you want to control the outcome, right?
• 3:13
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Kellyn: And then think about what you do in response to that.
• 3:17
  Kellyn: You're like, Oh, I'm just going to invite them because I know that they want to come, or I'm just going to tell them this thing that I know will make them happy.
• 3:23
  Kellyn: Um, and it's very well meaning, right?
• 3:26
  Kellyn: Um, but then where, what's the result, but.
• 3:30
  Kellyn: That's creating.
• 3:31
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 3:31
  Kellyn: So
• 3:32
  MaryAnn: what is the result that's creating what happens?
• 3:34
  MaryAnn: Cause it sounds like such a good thing, right?
• 3:36
  MaryAnn: To be like, Hey, I'm going to invite them to this thing.
• 3:38
  MaryAnn: They're going to be so happy, but then what does it create when it's coming through that lens?
• 3:43
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 3:44
  Kellyn: Many things.
• 3:45
  Kellyn: I think, I think the biggest thing is, You have been, you end up abandoning yourself in so many ways.
• 3:51
  Kellyn: Um, I say that from my own experience.
• 3:54
  Kellyn: I was so other focused for my entire life.
• 3:57
  Kellyn: Um, and still, until I started to get these tools that you and I both teach and coaching.
• 4:01
  Kellyn: And I was so, it was just so easy.
• 4:04
  Kellyn: And it was, again, it was like such a beautiful thing.
• 4:07
  Kellyn: I was like, Oh, this is so great.
• 4:08
  Kellyn: I just, you know, want to make these other people happy and I'm doing it.
• 4:11
  Kellyn: And then it was like, well, what about me?
• 4:14
  Kellyn: I sort of left myself in the dust in doing that.
• 4:17
  Kellyn: Um, I think the other result that I always see is that it just pulls you away from your true authenticity, like, who are you at your core?
• 4:25
  Kellyn: It's like, How can you even think or identify who you are at your core, you're constantly thinking of others and then it's hard to build that back, um, or I hate to use the term hard sometimes because it, it has this like impossible undertone, but, um, I think building that takes time and, and you have to really look at, at so many things and it's like starting from scratch.
• 4:52
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 4:53
  MaryAnn: Yeah, well, I kind of like how you explain that because to me, it almost sounded like there's a little bit of the self deception in there, right?
• 4:59
  MaryAnn: Because I know that for me, like when I'm going out and making people happy, I initially feel so good about it and I don't even realize until after the fact that I was going into it.
• 5:09
  MaryAnn: Trying to make them happy in an effort to fulfill something in me, right?
• 5:12
  MaryAnn: So maybe it's in the back of our mind, we're hoping for the reciprocation or hoping that they're going to like praise us.
• 5:19
  MaryAnn: Or it's, it's funny because we're doing it to make somebody else happy, but ultimately it's that self deception that, well, no, I'm doing it to make other people happy, but really it's because we're seeking a feeling.
• 5:28
  MaryAnn: Like we're lacking something and we're trying to get it fulfilled, but we don't know how to fulfill it.
• 5:33
  MaryAnn: So we're trying to create it and other people hoping it will be mirrored back, but it's kind of a strange thing of not actually recognizing like what's going on for us.
• 5:41
  MaryAnn: And it's interesting because in the most recent episodes here on the podcast, we've been talking a lot about identifying those needs.
• 5:46
  MaryAnn: And I think that once you're able to identify those needs, you can kind of let go a little bit of that anxiety and recognize, okay, well, this can come from within.
• 5:55
  MaryAnn: It's bringing it into your conscious awareness first and like acknowledging the self deception that no, it's up to me to fulfill that for myself.
• 6:03
  Kellyn: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 6:04
  Kellyn: I think that the ownership of like what you're creating is huge.
• 6:09
  Kellyn: Right.
• 6:09
  Kellyn: Also, I think a big thing is, is tuning into like, what's your intention.
• 6:14
  Kellyn: It's like, we're both thinking about like, it feels so great.
• 6:16
  Kellyn: And it feels so loving when you're like, sure.
• 6:19
  Kellyn: You're just like.
• 6:21
  Kellyn: You know, sure, you can come with me, even though you don't want them to come with you or help you, even though you don't want to help, like, it feels so great, then, at the end of the day, when you, when you really dial it back and you can, you're in a place to take that ownership, you're like, I'm being dishonest, being dishonest with myself.
• 6:37
  Kellyn: And I think people pleasers are like, Oh my gosh, I don't identify with being liar, a dishonest person that like shook things up.
• 6:47
  Kellyn: I was like, Whoa, I'm lying to people around me and I'm lying to myself.
• 6:51
  Kellyn: And now this is way worse.
• 6:53
  Kellyn: This is terrible,
• 6:54
  MaryAnn: right?
• 6:55
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 6:55
  MaryAnn: Cause it's not only dishonest, but it's also kind of manipulative because you're expecting them to fulfill something for you.
• 7:01
  MaryAnn: And that does kind of flip it on its head, right?
• 7:02
  MaryAnn: Cause it's like, no, but the point was to make everybody happy.
• 7:06
  Kellyn: Right.
• 7:06
  Kellyn: And now you're in that spiral again.
• 7:08
  Kellyn: It is like a vicious cycle, right?
• 7:10
  Kellyn: You're in that spiral again.
• 7:11
  Kellyn: Cause now you're like, no, I'm anxious.
• 7:13
  Kellyn: It's not only about the way I acted or the thing I said, but I'm anxious about who I am.
• 7:19
  Kellyn: And that is, that brings up a lot of shame and regret and disappointment and you know, all those types of emotions.
• 7:27
  Kellyn: And it's just like, Oh my gosh, now what do I do?
• 7:30
  Kellyn: I'm in this spiral.
• 7:32
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 7:32
  MaryAnn: Well, you've already said a few of these things, but I'm wondering if you can kind of condense it down a little bit.
• 7:36
  MaryAnn: Like how does believing that we're responsible for other people's emotions, how does that impact us?
• 7:42
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 7:42
  MaryAnn: Like mentally and emotionally.
• 7:44
  Kellyn: Yeah, emotionally, I think I feel like You're at least for me and you know for a lot of the people I coach you're always on guard You're always in panic mode Like, you know, I think there's especially in the world of anxiety people are talking a lot about nervous system regulation Kind of tuning into yourself and it's just like we're always in fight or flight Right, and that's it's not a healthy place to be Mentally or physically, right?
• 8:14
  Kellyn: Um, mentally or emotionally.
• 8:16
  Kellyn: And I think the other places, you're always like, go, go, go, go, go.
• 8:21
  Kellyn: It's so easy to like, push the emotions away.
• 8:24
  Kellyn: I think that, emotional stuffing is a huge, thing that happens with people because they're like, I hate this feeling, it feels terrible, let me numb.
• 8:35
  Kellyn: With social media, let me numb by calling a friend and complaining to her or gossiping or doing all these things.
• 8:42
  Kellyn: Um.
• 8:43
  Kellyn: Let me, avoid, right?
• 8:45
  Kellyn: Shutting, shutting people out and avoiding.
• 8:48
  Kellyn: So, um, that emotional stuffing is huge, right?
• 8:52
  Kellyn: And think about how that affects you.
• 8:54
  Kellyn: You're carrying all that emotion.
• 8:57
  Kellyn: We, we talk about how, I know you've talked about it on your podcast and on your Instagram about how to process emotions.
• 9:04
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 9:04
  Kellyn: If you're not processing them, they're just...
• 9:07
  Kellyn: in you.
• 9:07
  Kellyn: They're just like stuck there and you're carrying, I always think of it like a backpack.
• 9:10
  Kellyn: You're just like carrying all these emotions, unprocessed emotions, and the backpack gets really heavy.
• 9:16
  Kellyn: And, you know, that becomes exhausting.
• 9:19
  Kellyn: It becomes exhausting to live that way.
• 9:21
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 9:22
  MaryAnn: Boy, the way you worded that, it was real, almost giving me like emotional flashbacks, kind of remembering who I was before coaching.
• 9:27
  MaryAnn: I mean, honestly, one of the most beneficial things that I've personally experienced through coaching is learning how to self regulate those emotions.
• 9:35
  MaryAnn: Cause I think a lot of that anxiety comes from, we are trying to control other people's emotional reactions, but we can't control the other people, right?
• 9:43
  MaryAnn: So then we're even more anxious because no, but you're supposed to do things in the way I want you to do them.
• 9:47
  MaryAnn: And, and I remember.
• 9:49
  MaryAnn: Personal story.
• 9:50
  MaryAnn: But yeah, so I remember one day when I was in conversation with somebody and it wasn't going how I thought it should have been going, right.
• 9:57
  MaryAnn: I couldn't control the other person.
• 9:59
  MaryAnn: And I found myself, like you said, in that fight or flight response where I was like, no, but it was supposed to happen this way and, and kind of panicking and, and almost hyperventilating.
• 10:09
  MaryAnn: And I was like, wow, I am so dysregulated what is happening for me, but I had been so disassociated from my own emotions.
• 10:16
  MaryAnn: And so.
• 10:17
  MaryAnn: In that realm of self deception as to what was it that I was actually wanting to create?
• 10:23
  MaryAnn: Because it wasn't what I was actually creating.
• 10:24
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 10:25
  MaryAnn: So instead I'd like in an effort to essentially create, love and acceptance and being seen and heard and validated and understood and all those amazing things.
• 10:33
  MaryAnn: But the way that I was going about it, you know, my subconscious kind of took over where it's like, Oh, we're going to get to that place in this roundabout way.
• 10:42
  MaryAnn: And it's like, Whoa.
• 10:43
  MaryAnn: But then, we try to manage other people's emotions, but really, I think part of it is, and this might be a leap, you tell me what you think, but I kind of wonder if people really struggle to self regulate with their own emotions, if they maybe even try harder to manage other people's emotions, because it seems more doable when it's something outside of them.
• 11:02
  MaryAnn: And if they really struggle with their own, what do you think?
• 11:05
  Kellyn: When you're in that situation, like you're so focused outward, right?
• 11:09
  Kellyn: So, the second that you have to focus inward, that's uncomfortable.
• 11:14
  Kellyn: It's so, so uncomfortable.
• 11:15
  Kellyn: I, was the queen of avoiding my emotions, and I still am.
• 11:19
  Kellyn: It's still a constant practice that I have to be like, Oh, you're intellectualizing this.
• 11:25
  Kellyn: You have to actually feel what's going on, um, and feel your emotions because even in those like flight or fight or flight moments with exactly what you were describing, I feel like I've had a hard time and then I'd get a text from a friend and they'd be like, do you have time to talk?
• 11:43
  Kellyn: I'm really going through it.
• 11:44
  Kellyn: I'd be like, yep, absolutely.
• 11:46
  Kellyn: Like, great.
• 11:46
  Kellyn: Let me focus on you.
• 11:48
  Kellyn: You know, let me, let me avoid me and focus on you.
• 11:52
  Kellyn: That's, Great.
• 11:53
  Kellyn: Like, I would love to extend myself to you, as long as it meant I don't have to deal with what's going on with me.
• 11:59
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 12:00
  MaryAnn: Well, and it also kind of made that a feminine virtue almost, I think, especially as women were taught that, no, you need to go take care of everybody else where that we're supposed to be nurturing.
• 12:10
  MaryAnn: We're supposed to be caregiving.
• 12:11
  MaryAnn: We're supposed to be holding space for everybody else.
• 12:14
  MaryAnn: And then when we're left with their own emotions, it's like, I don't know what to do.
• 12:18
  MaryAnn: Like I know how to help other people.
• 12:20
  MaryAnn: I know how to make them feel better.
• 12:21
  MaryAnn: I don't know what I need.
• 12:23
  Kellyn: Right, right.
• 12:24
  Kellyn: And, that starts the whole path of self discovery, right?
• 12:28
  Kellyn: That goes back to what we were saying before.
• 12:29
  Kellyn: It's like, it, it's sort of like starting from the beginning when you finally break through and break free from it.
• 12:35
  Kellyn: You're like, now what are my values?
• 12:38
  Kellyn: What do I want to do?
• 12:40
  Kellyn: I think a lot of people, um, actually, speaking of personal story, I remember, coaching through Monday Hour 1 with a coach that I worked through and we were talking about time management and she's like, okay, first put in all the things that you, like, want to do with your week.
• 12:56
  Kellyn: And I was like, what?
• 12:58
  Kellyn: Like, she was like, put in the fun stuff.
• 12:59
  Kellyn: And I was like, I don't, I could not put in fun things.
• 13:04
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 13:04
  Kellyn: She was like, what do you mean?
• 13:06
  Kellyn: She was sweet, but she was like, what do you mean?
• 13:08
  Kellyn: And I was at a point where I was like, I have to do work and I have to do laundry.
• 13:13
  Kellyn: And it was very, um, regimented things and focusing on other things I needed to do.
• 13:20
  Kellyn: But when she said, put in the things you want to do, I'm like, I guess I like to go hiking sometimes.
• 13:28
  Kellyn: But I was like, how do I do this?
• 13:31
  Kellyn: How do I kind of show up for myself and do the things that I want to do?
• 13:34
  Kellyn: And that was such an aha moment for me too, to be like, whoa, I get to choose.
• 13:39
  Kellyn: I get to choose when I want to have like the fun things I want to do and not just kind of follow everyone else's lead in
• 13:47
  MaryAnn: a lot of ways.
• 13:48
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 13:48
  MaryAnn: And I love that.
• 13:49
  MaryAnn: I've actually prioritizing what you would like to do.
• 13:52
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 13:53
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 13:53
  MaryAnn: Cause I know it's so easy to fall into the trap of, well, I'll go see the movie that they want to see.
• 13:57
  MaryAnn: I'll go out to eat where they want to go out to eat.
• 13:59
  MaryAnn: I'll, I'll go do the things that they want to do, but we never even make a request for something that we might like.
• 14:05
  MaryAnn: And I know it's taken me some practice to be like, this is the thing I wanted to go do.
• 14:10
  MaryAnn: And if you'd like to join me, you're more than welcome.
• 14:12
  MaryAnn: And if you don't, that's okay.
• 14:13
  MaryAnn: But I'm going to prioritize that this is something that I want to do and I'm going to treat it as something that I want to do.
• 14:19
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 14:20
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 14:21
  Kellyn: And I, you know, I think having that mindset of being like, this is something I'm going to do and I'm, honoring myself by doing it.
• 14:28
  Kellyn: Right.
• 14:29
  Kellyn: In doing that practice, I think you start to build that muscle of worth, right?
• 14:34
  Kellyn: Self worth and you're like, I deserve to do the things that I want to do.
• 14:37
  Kellyn: And I think that's so important.
• 14:40
  Kellyn: I, I also think jumping to sort of the other side of it, as far as people pleasing goes, like I'm going to use hiking as an example, cause I do it often.
• 14:49
  Kellyn: And I just think being in nature is so healing.
• 14:51
  Kellyn: So, you know, I think there, this is just a random example, but say you want to go on a hike and You're like, I want to be by myself.
• 15:00
  Kellyn: I just want to go at my own pace.
• 15:02
  Kellyn: I just want to, you know, go to this very specific hike and you tell a friend, Oh, Saturday, I'm going hiking.
• 15:07
  Kellyn: And they're like, Oh, I want to come.
• 15:10
  Kellyn: Can I come with you?
• 15:11
  Kellyn: And I think your gut instinct is to be like, I don't want you to come.
• 15:15
  Kellyn: But then.
• 15:15
  Kellyn: What does your mouth say?
• 15:19
  Kellyn: You should definitely come, right?
• 15:21
  Kellyn: And you have this, this gut instinct, or this inner knowing, right?
• 15:26
  Kellyn: I don't want them to come, and it's not because you're mad at them, or annoyed at them, or anything, it's just like, you want to have this alone time.
• 15:36
  Kellyn: You're like, it's going to upset them, right?
• 15:39
  Kellyn: And this is where the anxiety comes in a little bit.
• 15:42
  Kellyn: If I don't, if I have to have this like weird comfort, take confrontation, or if I have to explain myself, that's a terrible feeling.
• 15:49
  Kellyn: So let me just say yes and give them what they want instead.
• 15:54
  Kellyn: saying, actually, I really want to do this alone.
• 15:58
  Kellyn: Um, I would love to go hiking with you, you know, next week.
• 16:02
  Kellyn: And the really, really important thing I think to remember about that is what happens then when you invite them and say, yeah, sure, you can come.
• 16:09
  Kellyn: It's no big deal.
• 16:10
  Kellyn: And then you start the hike two hours later than you want to, or you don't go as far as you want to, because that's what the friend wants to do.
• 16:17
  Kellyn: What happens then is you have resentment.
• 16:20
  Kellyn: Yeah, you're creating all this resentment between you and that other person and you're like I hate when Sarah comes with me, you know, and then there's a, there's a, a lot of, um, unspoken anger between,
• 16:37
  MaryAnn: right.
• 16:38
  MaryAnn: And it's so interesting to think about because first of all, I think, yeah, sometimes it is the compassionate thing to do to tell them no.
• 16:44
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 16:44
  MaryAnn: And also how interesting too, that we oftentimes say yes in an effort to avoid discomfort.
• 16:51
  MaryAnn: But then in that example, but then you're like out in the woods for hours, feeling really uncomfortable.
• 16:56
  MaryAnn: And so like choosing that, okay, either way, I'm going to be a little uncomfortable.
• 17:01
  MaryAnn: Short term discomfort or the long term discomfort, but I get to choose.
• 17:05
  MaryAnn: And it's a bit more empowering when you recognize, okay, it is a choice.
• 17:08
  MaryAnn: I'm not avoiding discomfort.
• 17:09
  MaryAnn: That's another self deception, right?
• 17:12
  MaryAnn: That we can avoid discomfort.
• 17:13
  MaryAnn: And how many times do we say yes?
• 17:14
  MaryAnn: trying to avoid that.
• 17:16
  MaryAnn: So that was, that was a great example.
• 17:18
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 17:18
  Kellyn: And I think too, like that inner going back to that, like inner knowing I even, I feel like in situations when I've been like this, I'm already uncomfortable saying yes.
• 17:29
  Kellyn: Like I'm now I'm like, they're not uncomfortable, but I take ownership of all the discomfort.
• 17:34
  Kellyn: You know, I'm uncomfortable knowing that I'm not being honest.
• 17:37
  Kellyn: Like my authenticity alarm was going off being like, you're not being truthful to yourself.
• 17:43
  Kellyn: And I'm like, I said, yes, I should have, I really don't want them to come.
• 17:47
  Kellyn: And then I'm putting on this fake smile.
• 17:49
  Kellyn: And then again, like now I'm being this fake person and now, you know, this isn't how I want to show up in the world.
• 17:55
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 17:55
  MaryAnn: And Kellen, I just have to repeat what you just said, because that was such a huge statement where you said, now we're taking ownership of all of the discomfort.
• 18:05
  MaryAnn: Like, let's just sit with that for a minute, right?
• 18:08
  MaryAnn: Because we're trying to save someone else from being uncomfortable, but what's the worst thing that's going to happen?
• 18:13
  MaryAnn: Somebody's going to be uncomfortable.
• 18:15
  MaryAnn: Okay.
• 18:15
  MaryAnn: Well, we just volunteered as tribute.
• 18:17
  MaryAnn: Right?
• 18:18
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 18:19
  MaryAnn: And to just be okay with learning that, you know what, they're probably going to be a little disappointed that they didn't get to go on this hike.
• 18:25
  MaryAnn: We can go on a different hike together sometime.
• 18:28
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 18:28
  MaryAnn: But how interesting what we tried to create and how much that actually self sabotages.
• 18:33
  MaryAnn: But wow, that was powerful for me.
• 18:35
  MaryAnn: Like, Oh yeah, I just chose to take on all of the discomfort.
• 18:39
  MaryAnn: Wow.
• 18:40
  Kellyn: Right, right.
• 18:41
  Kellyn: Yes.
• 18:42
  Kellyn: I mean, think of so many situations where that that happened.
• 18:46
  Kellyn: We're like, you know, I don't want to be uncomfortable.
• 18:49
  Kellyn: And then we're, we're dealing with the discomfort and not even acknowledging it.
• 18:53
  Kellyn: Right?
• 18:54
  Kellyn: Most of us aren't even tuned into our emotions enough to be like, Oh, I'm uncomfortable.
• 18:57
  Kellyn: We're just like, Ooh, I feel terrible.
• 19:00
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 19:00
  MaryAnn: Well, and then it's so interesting too, to think about how it's actually doing a disservice, not only to ourselves, because now we're taking on all the discomfort, but we're doing them a disservice as well, because they're never learning how to navigate.
• 19:12
  MaryAnn: Being turned down or having disappointment we are coddling so then they never develop that muscle of learning how to navigate that negative emotion is so interesting.
• 19:24
  MaryAnn: It really doesn't benefit either party,
• 19:26
  Kellyn: right?
• 19:27
  Kellyn: Right.
• 19:27
  Kellyn: And, what's the saying, um, you teach people how to treat you.
• 19:31
  Kellyn: Right.
• 19:31
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 19:32
  Kellyn: Um, and I think just as humans, whether you're highly sensitive person and anxious.
• 19:37
  Kellyn: person, whatever, I do think as humans we are in tune to each other.
• 19:40
  Kellyn: So in those situations, if you're the person that's always saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, you can come.
• 19:45
  Kellyn: Yes, I'll do that thing.
• 19:46
  Kellyn: And then suddenly you hit the brakes and you're like, actually, I want to go alone.
• 19:51
  Kellyn: The other person's like, something's wrong.
• 19:53
  Kellyn: Something's wrong with Kellen.
• 19:55
  Kellyn: Yes.
• 19:55
  Kellyn: Something's wrong with Marianne.
• 19:57
  Kellyn: We must be fighting.
• 19:58
  Kellyn: Or, you know, because we're all storytellers.
• 20:00
  Kellyn: We're all making up these stories in our mind to keep us safe.
• 20:03
  Kellyn: I think especially, if you look at it from a social stance, this is really, like I said at the beginning, this is like a type of social anxiety, right?
• 20:12
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 20:13
  Kellyn: And what do we know about our primal brain?
• 20:17
  Kellyn: Is that back when we were Cape men and Cape women, being kicked out of the tribe meant death.
• 20:24
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 20:25
  Kellyn: We are wired for connection in that way.
• 20:27
  Kellyn: We want to be around people and it's, it's our, our instinct to be like, Oh gosh, if, if I don't make this relationship perfect, if I don't please this person, they're going to reject me.
• 20:39
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 20:40
  Kellyn: And that rejection is so scary.
• 20:42
  Kellyn: So just for anyone who's dealing with it, like just, you know, don't gaslight your own emotions and say, Oh, I shouldn't be feeling this way, or I shouldn't be doing this.
• 20:50
  Kellyn: You know, it's a practice and it's an unlearning.
• 20:54
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 20:54
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 20:54
  MaryAnn: It does take practice and, like you said, it's not only practicing, like how to be okay with everybody having their own feelings, but, but also practicing, when people do experience that whiplash, right.
• 21:05
  MaryAnn: Where they're like, no, but you've always done exactly what I wanted to do.
• 21:07
  MaryAnn: Like we were supposed to be the same.
• 21:09
  MaryAnn: And now you're telling me you're different.
• 21:10
  MaryAnn: You're differentiating yourself.
• 21:12
  MaryAnn: And I don't know what to do.
• 21:13
  MaryAnn: And it's interesting.
• 21:14
  MaryAnn: I don't know what your experience has been, but I know from my personal experience, yeah.
• 21:18
  MaryAnn: I'm having to learn how to navigate that and having to learn to give either, you know, a wholehearted, yes.
• 21:22
  MaryAnn: Wait until I can give a wholehearted yes before committing to something.
• 21:25
  MaryAnn: And people did experience that whiplash.
• 21:27
  MaryAnn: And it was interesting to, first of all, notice how I felt when somebody was having a reaction.
• 21:32
  MaryAnn: But then also the other practice that's kind of like the subcategory was like just practicing being like, okay, I understand and I can have compassion towards that, that yeah, of course they're going to be experiencing whiplash, but then also like leaning into that discomfort and just being like, no, like.
• 21:46
  MaryAnn: We're good.
• 21:48
  MaryAnn: I promise you, we're good.
• 21:49
  MaryAnn: Like the reassuring of other people along the journey was really interesting.
• 21:53
  MaryAnn: And that one kind of surprised me too.
• 21:54
  MaryAnn: How much I had to reassure other people when I was starting to find myself was pretty fascinating.
• 22:00
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 22:01
  Kellyn: Right.
• 22:01
  Kellyn: And, you know, I think it's amazing that you have that capacity.
• 22:05
  Kellyn: I think most people.
• 22:06
  Kellyn: Even that brings up anxiety.
• 22:09
  Kellyn: Having that conversation, being honest about, you know, think of how many conversations bring up anxiety.
• 22:14
  Kellyn: Oh gosh, they're going to judge me or whatever, but being in a place where you're like, you know what, I'm going to be like, we're good.
• 22:20
  Kellyn: You don't need to worry.
• 22:21
  Kellyn: Um, you know, that's such a powerful place to be in.
• 22:24
  Kellyn: I think it took me some time to get there in the beginning.
• 22:27
  Kellyn: You know, I was sort of like, gosh, um, you know, I, I want to tell them, but then I don't want them to.
• 22:33
  Kellyn: Think that I'm a loser or that I'm, you know, whatever, whatever the story is that we tell ourselves.
• 22:42
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 22:42
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 22:43
  MaryAnn: So what practical tips do you have that people could apply today?
• 22:46
  MaryAnn: Cause sometimes it's really hard to just break free of that.
• 22:48
  MaryAnn: So what tips do you have to help people to make it through that transition?
• 22:54
  MaryAnn: Yeah,
• 22:54
  Kellyn: I think the first thing is building the awareness.
• 22:57
  Kellyn: I think any kind of mindfulness practice is so important.
• 23:00
  Kellyn: It was so important for me, to understand what the stories were that I was telling myself exactly to, you know, the conversation we just had.
• 23:09
  Kellyn: What are the stories that I'm telling myself when I tell somebody no.
• 23:14
  Kellyn: Oh my gosh, they're going to hate me.
• 23:16
  Kellyn: Oh my gosh, they think I'm selfish, whatever it is.
• 23:19
  Kellyn: You have to build.
• 23:21
  Kellyn: That understanding of what's going on in your brain to really break through and be able to do something with the information, right?
• 23:28
  Kellyn: So I think building awareness, whether it's journaling, I suggest to all my clients journaling.
• 23:33
  Kellyn: It's part of the 12 week program that we go to.
• 23:36
  Kellyn: Like, you have to journal every day for five minutes, just to get all your thoughts out and to kind of take a look at what's going on in there.
• 23:42
  Kellyn: So that is the first thing.
• 23:45
  Kellyn: The second thing I would say is learning to not only process your emotions, but identify your emotions.
• 23:52
  Kellyn: The biggest change in my life, as far as anxiety goes, happened when I started to tune into my body and go, Okay, anxiety feels like this.
• 24:05
  Kellyn: I feel it in my throat, my heart's beating a little bit.
• 24:09
  Kellyn: Um, and I, and then.
• 24:12
  Kellyn: So actually this, this came up when I was dating somebody, probably, uh, over a year or two ago now.
• 24:18
  Kellyn: And I was bucketing everything as anxiety.
• 24:20
  Kellyn: I was like, I'm so anxious.
• 24:22
  Kellyn: I'm anxious about this.
• 24:22
  Kellyn: I'm anxious about this.
• 24:23
  Kellyn: I'm anxious about this.
• 24:24
  Kellyn: And then when I started to understand and kind of make a map of my emotions, I was like, Oh, I'm using anxiety as a scapegoat.
• 24:33
  Kellyn: Wow.
• 24:34
  Kellyn: This isn't anxiety.
• 24:34
  Kellyn: This is disappointment or.
• 24:37
  Kellyn: This is fear, or this is sadness.
• 24:40
  Kellyn: I was totally misdiagnosing my own emotional well being.
• 24:45
  Kellyn: And once I started to really tune into myself, it changed my life completely.
• 24:52
  Kellyn: I sort of stopped, identifying so much as anxious, you know?
• 24:57
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Kellyn: Just started identifying as a person that has emotions, you know, I love
• 25:01
  MaryAnn: that so much.
• 25:02
  MaryAnn: And that is so powerful, right?
• 25:04
  MaryAnn: Because if you can separate out, okay.
• 25:06
  MaryAnn: Cause you treat anxiety versus sadness.
• 25:08
  MaryAnn: So different.
• 25:10
  MaryAnn: Like it's a totally, it's giving us completely different information, but we're mislabeling it.
• 25:15
  MaryAnn: We're giving ourselves false information around what the need is.
• 25:18
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 25:18
  Kellyn: I mean, I can't even express enough how much that changed my life.
• 25:23
  Kellyn: I mean, imagine if you go to the doctor for 33 years and they're like, Oh, you have a heart problem.
• 25:28
  Kellyn: You have a heart problem.
• 25:29
  Kellyn: And then one time you go and they're like, actually, that's a lung.
• 25:33
  Kellyn: issue.
• 25:35
  Kellyn: You'd be like, what?
• 25:35
  Kellyn: What do you mean?
• 25:37
  Kellyn: You've been telling me wrong information the whole time.
• 25:39
  Kellyn: That's sort of how I felt.
• 25:40
  Kellyn: I was like, I've been telling myself I'm anxious, I'm anxious, I'm anxious.
• 25:43
  Kellyn: And that's because I didn't have the tools.
• 25:46
  Kellyn: And you're absolutely right.
• 25:48
  Kellyn: The way that I process sadness.
• 25:50
  Kellyn: It's very different than how I would process anxiety.
• 25:54
  Kellyn: You know?
• 25:54
  Kellyn: Oh, I'm anxious in this relationship, and it's just like, actually I'm disappointed because they're not meeting my need, which of course I would never know as a past people pleaser.
• 26:03
  Kellyn: You know?
• 26:04
  Kellyn: But people pleasers
• 26:05
  MaryAnn: don't have needs, right?
• 26:09
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 26:10
  MaryAnn: That's hilarious.
• 26:11
  MaryAnn: We'd love to think so.
• 26:15
  MaryAnn: When I loved your example to have like a misdiagnosis, like if you went to the doctors, because it's also similar where it's like, okay, could you use the example of, I have a heart problem.
• 26:23
  MaryAnn: But maybe we're over labeling where it's like, do you have a heart problem or do you occasionally experience heartburn?
• 26:29
  MaryAnn: Like, how are you going to approach this?
• 26:31
  MaryAnn: Right?
• 26:31
  MaryAnn: Like being more specific as to what it is.
• 26:33
  MaryAnn: Cause we do over generalize and, and that had so much more weight to it, right?
• 26:38
  MaryAnn: Because if I'm going through life thinking I have a heart problem, think about all the things I would be limiting.
• 26:43
  MaryAnn: I'm not going to be going on those hikes.
• 26:44
  MaryAnn: I'm not going to be going on high adventures.
• 26:46
  MaryAnn: I'm going to be doing everything to, Oh, I can't do that.
• 26:48
  MaryAnn: I need to watch my heart.
• 26:50
  MaryAnn: When really if the problem is just heartburn.
• 26:53
  MaryAnn: And I can pop a tum.
• 26:55
  MaryAnn: Right, right.
• 26:56
  Kellyn: It's not so scary, right?
• 26:57
  Kellyn: It's not like a heart problem is so severe.
• 27:00
  Kellyn: I love that, I love that you brought that up.
• 27:02
  Kellyn: I think that's, that's so true.
• 27:04
  Kellyn: When you're like, wait a second.
• 27:06
  Kellyn: Let's take a step back and look at what, what this really is.
• 27:09
  Kellyn: Um, you know, I think in our society too, especially with how quickly the internet moves, things catch on.
• 27:16
  Kellyn: You know, we want mental health to be talked about and understood.
• 27:22
  Kellyn: And anxiety is one of those things that people caught onto and then made a joke of in a lot of ways.
• 27:28
  Kellyn: And it's just like, Oh my God, I'm so anxious.
• 27:31
  Kellyn: you know, whatever.
• 27:33
  Kellyn: but then it sort of becomes part of your identity.
• 27:35
  Kellyn: It makes people laugh.
• 27:37
  Kellyn: It, it, and you, you grab onto it.
• 27:39
  Kellyn: That's what I did.
• 27:40
  Kellyn: I certainly did that.
• 27:41
  Kellyn: I'm like, oh yeah, I'm so anxious.
• 27:43
  Kellyn: Yep.
• 27:43
  Kellyn: I'm anxious person.
• 27:44
  Kellyn: I'm anxious.
• 27:45
  Kellyn: It's like, no, I'm not anxious.
• 27:46
  Kellyn: I've had an anxious thought, you know, I was making it my whole.
• 27:51
  Kellyn: Identity,
• 27:51
  MaryAnn: right?
• 27:52
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 27:53
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 27:53
  MaryAnn: Acknowledging that.
• 27:54
  MaryAnn: Okay.
• 27:54
  MaryAnn: I'm a human.
• 27:54
  MaryAnn: Like you said earlier, I'm a human who experiences emotion, right?
• 27:58
  MaryAnn: That doesn't mean I am anxiety.
• 28:00
  MaryAnn: It doesn't mean I am depression.
• 28:02
  MaryAnn: It doesn't mean I am these things.
• 28:04
  MaryAnn: Like that's a part of my current human experience, but that's not.
• 28:09
  MaryAnn: Of me that's oversimplified me, right?
• 28:12
  MaryAnn: Totally.
• 28:13
  Kellyn: Right.
• 28:13
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Kellyn: Like let's just give the Spark Notes version of who I am.
• 28:17
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 28:17
  Kellyn: that ends up being a whole chapter I think the other, the one last thing that I'll add to kind of tools to, to navigate mm-hmm.
• 28:25
  Kellyn: anxiety and people pleasing, is really practicing being honest, being vulnerable in a really safe space.
• 28:34
  Kellyn: I feel so lucky that I have a community of people that I can be honest with and say like, Hey, I'm feeling really weird right now about this.
• 28:45
  Kellyn: I don't want to do this thing and I want to be there for you, but I just can't right now.
• 28:50
  Kellyn: and then, having those relationships where they're, they're so loving and caring and they're like, of course, thank you.
• 28:56
  Kellyn: Thank you for telling me, you know, thanks for letting me know because there are.
• 29:02
  Kellyn: Course with people pleasers, you know, they say that people pleaser start as parent pleasers.
• 29:06
  Kellyn: So especially when it's in like a family environment, the volume is turned up.
• 29:12
  Kellyn: It can be so much more stressful, but if you can find those small pockets, whether it's with a coach or with a close friend or a teacher, whatever it is, where you can practice being honest and get that, that beautiful response back.
• 29:28
  Kellyn: That's like, I'm.
• 29:29
  Kellyn: Thank you for telling me.
• 29:30
  Kellyn: I would never want you to do anything you don't want to do.
• 29:32
  Kellyn: And then you're like, really, but that's very healing.
• 29:37
  Kellyn: It's very healing.
• 29:38
  Kellyn: It retrains your nervous system to be like, it's okay.
• 29:41
  Kellyn: It's okay to set this boundary.
• 29:42
  Kellyn: It's okay to be honest.
• 29:43
  Kellyn: It's okay to put my needs first.
• 29:46
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 29:47
  MaryAnn: Well, that's beautiful.
• 29:48
  MaryAnn: Yes.
• 29:48
  MaryAnn: Retraining the nervous system.
• 29:51
  MaryAnn: I love that.
• 29:51
  MaryAnn: Cause yeah.
• 29:52
  MaryAnn: Cause when you are in that constant fight or flight mode, and then as you talked about in your first tip, you know, building that awareness around what's my story when somebody tells me now can be so eyeopening because really when you really think about it and when you, you know, as you talk about your third tip, practicing being honest and vulnerable in a safe space, it is uncomfortable when you're trying to test those relationships to see if it's a safe space.
• 30:12
  MaryAnn: But ultimately, if somebody is always telling, you know, and you never get your own cup filled, do you really want to invest in that relationship?
• 30:19
  MaryAnn: And it can be scary because we don't want to admit that we've been investing into a relationship that isn't giving us a balanced return.
• 30:26
  MaryAnn: But also that's the only way that you can figure that out sometimes is okay, well, now I have more information about how they're going to show up, how I've been showing up.
• 30:35
  MaryAnn: I've tested it.
• 30:36
  MaryAnn: I've been honest and vulnerable, and I can see that this is an unsafe space.
• 30:40
  MaryAnn: And make those changes or to see, Oh, look, now I have like, I know two people now that can be that safe space for me.
• 30:47
  MaryAnn: And then slowly growing from there.
• 30:49
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 30:50
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 30:50
  Kellyn: Then knowing that it's, it's okay.
• 30:52
  Kellyn: Like you're going to be okay.
• 30:53
  Kellyn: And, um, yeah, I think that's, that's so important.
• 30:59
  MaryAnn: I'm just going to review your tips.
• 31:00
  MaryAnn: So build awareness around our stories.
• 31:01
  MaryAnn: When somebody tells us no and identify or learning to identify and process emotions, separating them out, not oversimplifying.
• 31:08
  MaryAnn: Right.
• 31:08
  MaryAnn: Cause so often we want to say sad, mad, glad, but there are hundreds of different emotions.
• 31:13
  MaryAnn: Oh,
• 31:13
  Kellyn: I love that.
• 31:14
  Kellyn: It's just like, here are the basics.
• 31:16
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 31:17
  MaryAnn: It's like, I'm sad.
• 31:18
  MaryAnn: It's like, are you sad?
• 31:18
  MaryAnn: Or are you feeling lonely?
• 31:20
  MaryAnn: Are you feeling left out?
• 31:21
  MaryAnn: Are you feeling
• 31:23
  Kellyn: right?
• 31:23
  Kellyn: Let's take it a step further.
• 31:24
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 31:25
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 31:26
  MaryAnn: And then practicing being honest and vulnerable to find those safe spaces.
• 31:30
  MaryAnn: I love that.
• 31:31
  MaryAnn: Um, so just one last question for you here.
• 31:33
  MaryAnn: So how does, um, you know, when we're taking on these other people's emotions, like I just kind of want to drive home the point, like, how does that actually, how is that self limiting?
• 31:40
  MaryAnn: How does that prevent people from achieving their dreams?
• 31:43
  MaryAnn: I know you work with, you know, all of the dreamers, how does that limit them?
• 31:47
  Kellyn: Totally.
• 31:48
  Kellyn: I, I think it's a little bit what I touched on earlier that, you know, when you're so focused on everyone else, it's, it's really easy to abandon yourself and your own.
• 31:58
  Kellyn: And not only abandon yourself, but even identify what your own needs and desires are, right?
• 32:04
  Kellyn: Because you've been led, by other people.
• 32:06
  Kellyn: You, you kind of play the role of follower.
• 32:10
  Kellyn: And that doesn't mean that you don't have ideas or things that you want to do.
• 32:13
  Kellyn: It's just that you, you mold into this perfect person that just shows up for people and does all these things.
• 32:19
  Kellyn: And then It's like, okay, but what do you want to do?
• 32:22
  Kellyn: So, you know, I, I often say like you can't daydream when you're crawling through the mud.
• 32:27
  Kellyn: And I, I think people pleasing a lot of times feels like crawling through the mud to kind of get back to yourself, right.
• 32:35
  Kellyn: To get back to your true self.
• 32:38
  Kellyn: Your true desires and and who you want to be, you know, so, um, I think that's the biggest thing is is understanding that like you are so worthy of the things that you want and the things that you desire and so is everybody else, but it's also not your responsibility to create that experience for them.
• 32:56
  Kellyn: It's your responsibility to create it for yourself.
• 32:59
  MaryAnn: That was beautiful.
• 33:00
  MaryAnn: Yeah, that we can't daydream while crawling through the mud.
• 33:02
  MaryAnn: And sometimes we're so worried about being abandoned that we self abandoned.
• 33:08
  MaryAnn: powerful.
• 33:09
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 33:09
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 33:09
  Kellyn: It's the cycle, right?
• 33:11
  Kellyn: So much of, of our conversation, I feel like goes back to, you get stuck in this washing machine, you get stuck in the cycle of, um, you know, not wanting to be rude to someone and then.
• 33:22
  Kellyn: You're being rude to yourself and not wanting someone to feel neglected and then neglecting yourself and, uh, you know, it, it really is about clearing that out so you can honor yourself.
• 33:34
  Kellyn: That's
• 33:35
  MaryAnn: beautiful.
• 33:36
  MaryAnn: All right.
• 33:36
  MaryAnn: So I have a few rapid fire questions for you.
• 33:38
  MaryAnn: Ready?
• 33:41
  MaryAnn: So we're at the end of summer.
• 33:42
  MaryAnn: What's your favorite summer activity?
• 33:45
  MaryAnn: Ooh,
• 33:45
  Kellyn: um, hiking for sure.
• 33:49
  Kellyn: Also, I'm, I'm in Los Angeles, so I'm close to the beach and doing it.
• 33:54
  Kellyn: Just a beach plunge on a very hot day.
• 33:56
  Kellyn: There's still a few hot days left.
• 33:58
  Kellyn: I just like get that, that high of running into the ocean and.
• 34:02
  Kellyn: It feels like childlike.
• 34:04
  Kellyn: So that's really,
• 34:04
  MaryAnn: yeah.
• 34:05
  MaryAnn: Oh, that is amazing.
• 34:06
  MaryAnn: And I saw a picture of you on Instagram climbing a tree.
• 34:08
  MaryAnn: Are you a tree climber?
• 34:12
  Kellyn: Yes.
• 34:12
  Kellyn: That's one of my favorite hikes.
• 34:14
  Kellyn: It was actually from a few years ago, but yeah.
• 34:16
  Kellyn: Um, yeah, I think summer brings out that beautiful, like childlike energy.
• 34:20
  Kellyn: It's like the chance to kind of like.
• 34:23
  Kellyn: Dance in the rain and play in the sand and climb trees.
• 34:26
  Kellyn: And I, I try to, I'm a summer girl through and through.
• 34:30
  Kellyn: So, um, I try to hold onto that stuff as long as I can.
• 34:34
  Kellyn: That's
• 34:34
  MaryAnn: awesome.
• 34:35
  MaryAnn: I love it.
• 34:35
  MaryAnn: What about you?
• 34:37
  MaryAnn: Oh, totally.
• 34:37
  MaryAnn: I love all of those same things.
• 34:39
  MaryAnn: Yeah.
• 34:39
  MaryAnn: My kids were poking fun.
• 34:40
  MaryAnn: We had a huge rain storm and we're out shopping and they're like, I don't want to go out to the car.
• 34:44
  MaryAnn: I want to wait for it to pass.
• 34:44
  MaryAnn: I'm like, I'll pick you up.
• 34:46
  MaryAnn: I'm like running out through the rain to get to the car was completely drenched.
• 34:49
  MaryAnn: And they told me when they got in the car, they're like, you look like a little kid out there.
• 34:53
  MaryAnn: I'm like, yeah.
• 34:53
  MaryAnn: That was fun.
• 35:03
  MaryAnn: So what is your current favorite form of self care?
• 35:07
  Kellyn: Journaling for sure.
• 35:08
  Kellyn: Yeah, definitely journaling and it took me a really long time.
• 35:12
  Kellyn: I won't ramble on too much, but it took me a really long time to really build that journaling habit.
• 35:17
  Kellyn: Yeah.
• 35:17
  Kellyn: And it's the first thing I do in the morning.
• 35:19
  Kellyn: It's the thing that I do when I'm, I'm feeling scrunchy and I'm just like, Oh, what do I do with all this emotions?
• 35:25
  Kellyn: It's, it's like another limb to me now.
• 35:27
  Kellyn: So yeah, journaling.
• 35:29
  MaryAnn: I love that.
• 35:30
  MaryAnn: And I highly recommend for everything that we've already talked about, like that can be such a great way to identify what your story is, to just write it out and try to look at it objectively.
• 35:38
  MaryAnn: Because sometimes it's not until we write it out and we hear our really sad sob story about how our need wasn't met.
• 35:44
  MaryAnn: It's not until we see it in black and white that we're able to recognize, Oh, this is how I actually want to show up.
• 35:49
  MaryAnn: So journaling, using that as a source of information.
• 35:52
  MaryAnn: I love that.
• 35:53
  MaryAnn: All right.
• 35:54
  MaryAnn: And last question, what is one thing that you really want people to take away from this conversation?
• 35:59
  Kellyn: Oh, um, so much goodness.
• 36:02
  Kellyn: I think the biggest thing is that like your needs matter, you know, putting yourself first is not only is it not is the most beautiful thing you can do, but it's It's so important to your quality of life.
• 36:18
  Kellyn: Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is that I know it's a practice.
• 36:22
  Kellyn: I know it can be hard to undo you know those things that you've probably been doing since childhood people pleasing and um, But your needs they matter and the people that Are meant to be in your life and are worth having in your life.
• 36:36
  Kellyn: We'll respect those, that honesty and that true you.
• 36:40
  Kellyn: I love
• 36:41
  MaryAnn: it.
• 36:41
  MaryAnn: Beautiful.
• 36:42
  MaryAnn: So where can people find you if they want to learn more?
• 36:45
  Kellyn: Yes.
• 36:45
  Kellyn: So, um, my website is daydreamercoaching.
• 36:49
  Kellyn: com.
• 36:50
  Kellyn: Um, and you can also find me on Instagram at daydreamercoaching.
• 36:54
  MaryAnn: Awesome.
• 36:54
  MaryAnn: And I will put all of her, contact information in the show notes.
• 36:57
  MaryAnn: So if you want to reach out to Kellen, she's fantastic.
• 37:00
  MaryAnn: And this was so much fun.
• 37:01
  MaryAnn: Like, I love collaborating with you.
• 37:02
  MaryAnn: I don't have to do this again.
• 37:03
  MaryAnn: I know,
• 37:04
  Kellyn: please.
• 37:04
  Kellyn: I have, we could talk for days.
• 37:06
  Kellyn: I feel like it just feels like
• 37:08
  MaryAnn: a class reunion.
• 37:10
  Kellyn: This was amazing.
• 37:11
  Kellyn: Thank you so much for having me.
• 37:13
  Kellyn: I'm so honored.
• 37:14
  Kellyn: Your podcast is amazing and I love seeing the work you do.
• 37:17
  Kellyn: I'm so inspired by you every day, every day I see something new and I'm like, wow, she's, she's killing it.
• 37:23
  Kellyn: It's amazing.
• 37:24
  Kellyn: So,
• 37:25
  MaryAnn: well, thank you so much.
• 37:26
  MaryAnn: I think the same of you.
• 37:27
  MaryAnn: So this has been a lot of fun.
• 37:28
  MaryAnn: All right.
• 37:29
  MaryAnn: So everybody, your needs are valid.
• 37:31
  MaryAnn: Um, so yeah, focus on just addressing your own needs, acknowledge that it's okay, right?
• 37:36
  MaryAnn: Somebody's going to be feeling a little uncomfortable at either way, but you're only responsible for you.
• 37:40
  MaryAnn: So yeah.
• 37:41
  MaryAnn: Good luck this week, you guys.
• 37:43
  MaryAnn: All right.
• 37:43
  MaryAnn: We'll talk to you soon.
• 37:44
  MaryAnn: Bye now.