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Shocking Valentine's Love Crimes · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one thirty two. Happy Valentine's everybody, This is Crime Stories.
0:16
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, Thank you for being with us. And
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Speaker 1: what would Valentine's Day be without murder? I don't know
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Speaker 1: what it would be in my world. The two are
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Speaker 1: very very connected with me right now. Dr Brian Russell, lawyer,
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Speaker 1: psychologist and host of Investigation Discoveries, Fatal Vows, Cheryl McCollum,
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Speaker 1: Director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Ashley Wilcot, lawyer
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Speaker 1: and advocate, and investigative journalist alexis Terress Chuck with Radar
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Speaker 1: Online dot Com first to Dr Brian Russell, host of
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Speaker 1: Fatal Vows on Investigation Discovery. Dr Brian Russell, I've got
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Speaker 1: a question for you, and please Dr Russell, all know
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Speaker 1: you're brilliant. Would you please try to talk regular people
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Speaker 1: talk for me? Explain to me what you mean in
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Speaker 1: your love lessons, shoot for stability and mental help. I mean,
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Speaker 1: isn't that pretty much a given? Dr Russell? You don't
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Speaker 1: want some psycho, right, you certainly would think. So? What
1:21
Speaker 1: better day than Valentine's Day to talk about how not
1:24
Speaker 1: to end up on Fatal Vows not to end up
1:27
Speaker 1: on my show. And one of the things that we've
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Speaker 1: seen over the five seasons we've been on the air
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Speaker 1: is that many times when you look back at the
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Speaker 1: end of the episode, there were signs readily available in
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Speaker 1: the murderer from the beginning that they were at least
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Speaker 1: going to be nothing but trouble for the victim, and
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Speaker 1: potentially nothing but trouble, Sheryl McCollum. Why do we gravitate
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Speaker 1: towards bad boys nothing but trouble? Why is that because
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Speaker 1: you want somebody that kind of goes against the grain.
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Speaker 1: He's gonna do some things that's always been kind of forbidden.
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Speaker 1: It's a last Well. I don't know what kind of
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Speaker 1: life you're living, Sheryl McCollum, but I want some money
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Speaker 1: to get out of bed with me at five o'clock
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Speaker 1: in the morning, you get to work, helping me get
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Speaker 1: the children to school and paying the house. Note that's
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Speaker 1: what I want. Okay, I know that's not very sexy.
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Speaker 1: But Dr Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist and host of the
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Speaker 1: hit show Fatal Vows on Investigation Discovery, let me ask
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Speaker 1: you this, Uh, do you remember Jodi Aris. Listen, dear
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Speaker 1: friend of Travis Alexander overheard Travis arguing with Arius on
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Speaker 1: the telephone. Mike, thank you for being with us, Thank
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Speaker 1: you for having me. Mike. I'm kind of knocked out
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Speaker 1: by Travis explaining to you how he was so distressed
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Speaker 1: when Arius decided to move back to Mesa that he
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Speaker 1: did not want her to move back. He told her
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Speaker 1: not to move back. She moved back anyway. She would
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Speaker 1: actually get into his home by coming through the doggie door. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: there were lots of stories about times when she was
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Speaker 1: sneaking around his house, you know, and even sneaking into it,
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Speaker 1: and uh, he would find her. They're you know, late
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Speaker 1: at night. Um, you know, I heard one person talk
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Speaker 1: about a story that he related to them of she
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Speaker 1: she was vacuuming his house in the middle of the night.
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Speaker 1: So just really really creepy behavior all the way around.
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Speaker 1: That was me interviewing a principle in the Arias murder
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Speaker 1: of Travis Alexander on Headline News. The moment somebody tries
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Speaker 1: to get in your doggie door, Dr Brian Russell, don't
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Speaker 1: you think that's kind of a tip off there's something
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Speaker 1: way wrong. Well, exactly. And you know, one of the
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Speaker 1: aspects of this that that we're talking about is the
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Speaker 1: bad boy bad girl phenomenon, where somebody's exciting and people
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Speaker 1: go for the excitement and sort of tune out all
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Speaker 1: of the other red flags. But the other aspect of
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Speaker 1: this is the rescuing aspect. There are many people in
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Speaker 1: this affects men and women both who are drawn to
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Speaker 1: somebody that they feel is in distress and that they
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Speaker 1: can rescue. And a lot of times they think it's
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Speaker 1: about them wanting to do such wonderful thing for somebody else,
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Speaker 1: but a lot of times it's actually about themselves feeling
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Speaker 1: good and powerful and useful and all of that. And
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Speaker 1: one of the things that I've said for five years
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Speaker 1: on Fatal Vows is a relationship that starts with a
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Speaker 1: rescue is almost never a good idea because white, white,
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Speaker 1: white don't mess with my head. Brian Russell, are you
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Speaker 1: telling me the whole pretty woman thing with Julia Roberts
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Speaker 1: is that's not true? Right? Okay? Hold on, listen to this,
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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell with me Murder plus Valentine's Day? What
4:47
Speaker 1: could be better? Listen in three or four hours with
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Speaker 1: him in a truck in August, and during that time
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Speaker 1: he and Arias were going at it on the phone
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Speaker 1: and on text. What were they arguing about? Um, Travis
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Speaker 1: was just arguing with her and she was arguing back
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Speaker 1: about her moving to Mesa after they had broken up.
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Speaker 1: It was the first time that I had actually learned
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Speaker 1: about this. And yeah, we were in the truck for
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Speaker 1: a few hours and it was text messages and phone
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Speaker 1: calls and a lot of what I heard, you know,
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Speaker 1: on on Travis's end was just you know, why did
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Speaker 1: you move there. We're not together, We're not going to
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Speaker 1: be together anymore. You have no reason to be there
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Speaker 1: that you know. There's no other reason for you to
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Speaker 1: move to Mesa but for me, So stop making those
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Speaker 1: excuses and you know, just tell me why you did it.
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Speaker 1: And it went on that way from Mike. One of
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Speaker 1: the photos that you showed us, you met up with
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Speaker 1: Travis at one of the conventions and you thought, as
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Speaker 1: you said, it was an areas free weekend. Liz, do
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Speaker 1: you have that shot? And then you look at photos
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Speaker 1: taken of you with with him or just him and
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Speaker 1: selling there's areas kind of like filing at the camera
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Speaker 1: in the background and only then did you realize she
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Speaker 1: was there? That's from h l N. Wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: so she was actually showing up at work events, out
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Speaker 1: of town, work events where she wasn't supposed to be.
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Speaker 1: You take a shot of Travis Alexander and who is
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Speaker 1: now dead, by the way, Jodiarius murdered him, and there
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Speaker 1: in the background photo bom, there's Jody Arius. I'm looking
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Speaker 1: at it right now. She's smiling in the distance. Dr
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Speaker 1: Brian Russell, the first thing you say is shoot from
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Speaker 1: Mental Health and Stability Alexis terres Chuck Radar online dot
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Speaker 1: Com joining us Alexis. There were so many signs and
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Speaker 1: we're just using Jody Aris and Travis Alexander, her lover
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Speaker 1: now deceased, as an example of when you start getting
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Speaker 1: that hinky feeling you you come in and there in
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Speaker 1: your home, vacuuming your home at night. That's wrong. When
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Speaker 1: you find out they go through the doggie door, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: get away, run, run for the hills, as if you
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Speaker 1: had seen a monster. What more can you tell me
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Speaker 1: about this example? Jodi Arius and Dr Brian Russell's list
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Speaker 1: number one sheet from Mental Health Instability are examples that
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Speaker 1: Jodi Arias did everybody was over at Travis's house for
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Speaker 1: Christmas having a party. All of a sudden people noticed
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Speaker 1: Jody had snuck in the house and she was hiding
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Speaker 1: behind the Christmas tree. Okay, well what well, let me
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Speaker 1: just let that sink in a moment. Don't don't say
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Speaker 1: another word. Hold on, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold
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Speaker 1: Case Institute. Cheryl, you and I have prosecuted a lot
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Speaker 1: of cases together. But if I come in and my
7:46
Speaker 1: boyfriend is hiding behind the Christmas tree, he's getting a
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Speaker 1: butt full of butt shot. Okay, oh yeah, that's a
7:52
Speaker 1: good way to get shot. There ain't no doubt about it.
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Speaker 1: And anything. The main thing that I can't hear and
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Speaker 1: over and over if people explaining away behavior, well she
8:02
Speaker 1: loves you, well she couldn't be away from me. Well
8:04
Speaker 1: if they were a perfect couple, stop explaining away a stalker,
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Speaker 1: a criminal, a con artist. Stop it. She's crazy. Ashley Willcott,
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Speaker 1: lawyer and advocate Ashley Shoot for Mental Health and Stability.
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Speaker 1: Help me out, Ashley, run, don't walk. And here's the thing.
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Speaker 1: If you ever heard this expression, and I'm saying it
8:28
Speaker 1: can be true for women as well. But you know
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Speaker 1: I've always heard, Hey, crazy women, they're great and in
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Speaker 1: the sack, and so I do think that comes into play.
8:37
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes it's like, oh, there are a
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Speaker 1: lot of fun it's okay if they're a little crazy. No, no, no,
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Speaker 1: there's no such thing as a little crazy. Okay, Ashley,
8:45
Speaker 1: I've never really heard that. Okay, I guess we're running
8:49
Speaker 1: in different circles, all right, Dr Brian Russell, I think
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Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott could use your help right now. So what
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Speaker 1: we're hearing, what we're talking about right now are signs
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Speaker 1: of crazy that come out during the course of the relationship,
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Speaker 1: things that that Travis, for example, observed in his relationship
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Speaker 1: with Jody. One of the things I want to mention though,
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Speaker 1: is when you're first getting to know somebody, if you
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Speaker 1: hear them talking about, you know, a really really chaotic,
9:20
Speaker 1: crazy childhood that they had, or a struggle a history
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Speaker 1: of struggle they've had with mental illness or addiction or
9:27
Speaker 1: something like that, sometimes people are inclined to hear those
9:30
Speaker 1: stories and think, oh my gosh, I feel so sorry
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Speaker 1: for this person. I really want to, you know, try
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Speaker 1: to be there for this person. I really want to
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Speaker 1: try to help this person have a good life now
9:39
Speaker 1: by being in their life and being a good relationship
9:42
Speaker 1: partner for them. And one of the things I often
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Speaker 1: point out on fatal vows is just because you somebody
9:48
Speaker 1: went through something horrific or they've struggled with something and
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Speaker 1: you feel sorry for them, does not mean that they
9:54
Speaker 1: and it might be through no fault of their own,
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Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that they are going to be
9:58
Speaker 1: equipped to be a good relationship partner for you. It
10:01
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they've had a good example of what healthy
10:04
Speaker 1: relationships look like. Doesn't mean that they are not, you know,
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Speaker 1: unfortunately plagued with all kinds of struggles of their own
10:12
Speaker 1: that are gonna be big trouble for you. And so
10:14
Speaker 1: just because you feel sorry for somebody doesn't mean you
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Speaker 1: have to sacrifice yourself to them. Okay, Dr Brian Russell,
10:19
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this in regular people speak because um,
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Speaker 1: I learned that really from hearing parables when I couldn't
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Speaker 1: understand the concept, and then I transferred it to juries.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl Ashley Alexis, we've all been in I guess we
10:37
Speaker 1: have been in bad relationships before we find our prints. Okay,
10:41
Speaker 1: And you know, as my husband David Lynch says, hey, look,
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm not perfect, and oh true words were
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Speaker 1: never spoken. But you know what, I always say back
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Speaker 1: if I'm not seething at the moment. You know what,
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Speaker 1: you may not be perfect, but you're perfect for me. Okay,
10:59
Speaker 1: let me let you just go to Alexis to Red Chuck. Certainly, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: you had your share of frogs. Okay, let me just
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Speaker 1: give a couple of examples. Not your frog's mine. Okay,
11:10
Speaker 1: there was um, let me just say my my first love,
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Speaker 1: all right, his dad was an alcoholic that I later
11:18
Speaker 1: learned beat the mom. I guess I learned it at
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Speaker 1: the time, actually, and the sun was so nervous. Ah,
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Speaker 1: beautiful blue eyes, fun personality, but so nervous. And you know, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: you and I have learned from all the cases we've covered.
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Speaker 1: If your parents had an abusive relationship, you're likely to
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Speaker 1: abuse or be abused in your relationships. That's one frog.
11:48
Speaker 1: Let's say that there was another frog that I just
11:52
Speaker 1: happened to look on his computer and find out he
11:55
Speaker 1: was contacting meal order brides from Russia. Whoopsie. Oh kay.
12:00
Speaker 1: Then let's say who's another frog? Oh yeah, there's another
12:02
Speaker 1: frog that always wanted to pick out my clothes and
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Speaker 1: jewelry and tell me how much better I would look
12:07
Speaker 1: in that than my typical black pants and boots. I mean,
12:10
Speaker 1: what's wrong with that? So alexis having somebody that wants
12:14
Speaker 1: to dress you up like a Barbie doll. That's a
12:16
Speaker 1: little weird, right. It's following you up and down the
12:19
Speaker 1: stairs with a string of fake pearls to put around
12:22
Speaker 1: your neck. You don't, that's not bothering you. Alexis well
12:25
Speaker 1: kind of your really shift, yes, But to me it
12:27
Speaker 1: sounds like an episode of The Bachelor. Now these people
12:29
Speaker 1: are normalizing though, you know the on the very first
12:31
Speaker 1: episode of The Bachelor this season, he took her out
12:34
Speaker 1: and boughter clothes and butter jewelry and everything like that. Okay,
12:37
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm working. I don't have time to watch
12:39
Speaker 1: The Bachelor. Although didn't sub Bachelor just run down somebody
12:43
Speaker 1: on a tractor then that I was interested in. Cheryl McCollum,
12:47
Speaker 1: help me out. It seems innocent, but then all of
12:50
Speaker 1: a sudden you're running through the house and they're chasing
12:53
Speaker 1: you with a knife. Exactly, Nancy. I cannot stress this enough.
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Speaker 1: The first time you get a feelings this is odd
13:02
Speaker 1: or this doesn't make me feel good, or this is weird,
13:05
Speaker 1: you need to listen to that and take action because
13:09
Speaker 1: of it. It ain't gonna get any better, did I'll
13:12
Speaker 1: tell you we all know dating is when they put
13:15
Speaker 1: their best foot forward. So this is the best it's
13:19
Speaker 1: ever gonna be. Right, Well, does she have a point?
13:24
Speaker 1: I mean, does she have a point? Dr Brian Russell, Yes,
13:26
Speaker 1: she does, she does. That's right. When the person is
13:29
Speaker 1: trying to impress you as usually when they're gonna be
13:33
Speaker 1: concealing as best they can, those aspects of themselves that
13:37
Speaker 1: they know are gonna be red flags potentially. And so
13:41
Speaker 1: this is another thing you have to give yourself plenty
13:44
Speaker 1: of time to get to know somebody, because these things
13:49
Speaker 1: take time sometimes to to show themselves, especially when somebody's
13:53
Speaker 1: actively trying to conceal them. Okay, hold on just a moment,
13:56
Speaker 1: take a listen to this with her also friends with
13:59
Speaker 1: Travis alex Ander Patrick Henry is with us um. Mr Henry,
14:04
Speaker 1: you described a scenario that occurred about two months prior
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Speaker 1: to Travis's murder where a group of people were talking
14:15
Speaker 1: together um about the breakup of Travis and Jodie Alexander.
14:20
Speaker 1: What happened. Well, in in that conversation, we were all
14:25
Speaker 1: discussing and someone had brought up I wonder what happened
14:28
Speaker 1: all of JODI's ex boyfriends, and one of one young
14:32
Speaker 1: young lady said, they're probably buried in the desert somewhere. Okay.
14:37
Speaker 1: You know what when people are standing around talking about
14:40
Speaker 1: if your previous boyfriends and girlfriends all right, uh, dead
14:45
Speaker 1: and buried in the desert, that's a problem. Listening a
14:48
Speaker 1: longtime friend Travis Alexander's Jacob Mefford. He actually went on
14:53
Speaker 1: that cancoon trip, the one that Alexander didn't make because
14:57
Speaker 1: it was dead. Jacob, thanks for being with us. Thank you, Jacob.
15:03
Speaker 1: You went on the camcoon trip. You had socialized with
15:07
Speaker 1: Arius in the past. Take it from the beginning. When
15:10
Speaker 1: did you first meet her and what was your impression? Well, um,
15:15
Speaker 1: back into MySpace days before Facebook, my wife had was
15:19
Speaker 1: friends with Travis and was kind of searching through some
15:21
Speaker 1: comments and saw a comment by Jody and immediately pulled
15:25
Speaker 1: up her profile on MySpace and was completely creeped out
15:29
Speaker 1: about what she saw. There was a lot of like
15:30
Speaker 1: witchcraft things and just really creepy stuff that just wait, wait, WHOA,
15:37
Speaker 1: I didn't know this. You're gonna have to run that
15:41
Speaker 1: by me again. Witchcraft. What was this when she was
15:45
Speaker 1: already eating Travis Um. Yeah, apparently I didn't know at
15:49
Speaker 1: the time that she had. They had just met in
15:52
Speaker 1: Vegas maybe a month or a couple of weeks before,
15:54
Speaker 1: but she had Witchcraft listed on her my Space. She
15:57
Speaker 1: had a bunch of different, you know, freaky things on
16:01
Speaker 1: her MySpace page. That is from my previous show on
16:04
Speaker 1: hl in Headline News. Okay, I would say what new
16:08
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell that you should look on the when
16:12
Speaker 1: you're looking at a potential mate, you should look them
16:15
Speaker 1: up on the internet, and if they've got Witchcraft is
16:18
Speaker 1: an interest, probably cancel the next day. Absolutely. And let
16:23
Speaker 1: me point something else out everybody on this show here
16:25
Speaker 1: today with us is even though we're all young people,
16:30
Speaker 1: we've got enough life experience that something like that jumps
16:34
Speaker 1: out at us immediately. And and another one of my
16:37
Speaker 1: lessons that I often tell people, you know, when you
16:40
Speaker 1: are twenty or twenty one or twenty two, sometimes these
16:45
Speaker 1: kinds of things you think, Oh, isn't the person so
16:49
Speaker 1: interesting or aren't they. Isn't that so exciting that they're
16:52
Speaker 1: interested in some bizarre, weird stuff like that? You have
16:55
Speaker 1: to get wait, you ought to wait before you commit
16:57
Speaker 1: somebody to somebody in life into you're old enough to
17:01
Speaker 1: have enough life experience under your own belt to know
17:04
Speaker 1: what it is that you want, what kind of background
17:07
Speaker 1: a person would have that would that would be a
17:09
Speaker 1: good partner for you. Uh, you really are probably not
17:13
Speaker 1: well equipped at twenty Dr Brian Russell. Your your desires
17:19
Speaker 1: and what you're looking for changes. Like in high school
17:24
Speaker 1: you're just looking for somebody to go to the prom,
17:26
Speaker 1: I guess, and college you're looking for somebody to hang
17:30
Speaker 1: out with and have fun with. Uh. When you're first working,
17:35
Speaker 1: I mean, just speaking for myself, you're probably looking for
17:39
Speaker 1: someone to enjoy interests like hiking or whatever it is
17:43
Speaker 1: you like. Then suddenly, in my mind, at least with
17:46
Speaker 1: me Ashley Willcought, it all shifted and what I was
17:49
Speaker 1: looking for when I wanted to start a family. It
17:51
Speaker 1: does shift, and that's natural. That's the natural progression as
17:55
Speaker 1: you get older and get wiser. But you have to
17:58
Speaker 1: know it doesn't mean if your and you meet someone
18:02
Speaker 1: that's fun and exciting and different. That doesn't mean jump
18:06
Speaker 1: into a relationship with him. It doesn't mean let's have
18:09
Speaker 1: this big relationship where she has an opportunity to get
18:12
Speaker 1: crazy in in this particular case and actually murder me.
18:15
Speaker 1: It means go to something else, go to some other
18:19
Speaker 1: kind of fun, stay away from crazy with me. Dr
18:23
Speaker 1: Brian Russell, lawyer, psychologist, host of the hit show Fatal
18:27
Speaker 1: Vows on investigation Discovery. Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold
18:31
Speaker 1: Case Institute, Ashley Willcott, lawyer, an advocate, and Alexis terress
18:35
Speaker 1: Chuck Radar online dot Com filling us in when all
18:39
Speaker 1: the facts, I want to pause and thank my partner
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Speaker 1: Case Institute, Ashley Wilcott, lawyer and advocate, an investigative reporter,
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Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chut. Dr Brian Russell, host of Fatal Vows.
20:21
Speaker 1: You claim one of the major rules and finding a
20:25
Speaker 1: sweetheart or husband, never ever have an affair with a
20:30
Speaker 1: married person. Explain, I say, never get anywhere near an affair.
20:35
Speaker 1: Don't have an affair with a married person. Don't be
20:37
Speaker 1: a married person having an affair. Don't be married to
20:40
Speaker 1: a person who has affairs. And the reason is simple
20:42
Speaker 1: that they're there. Examples are legion. Anytime there's cheating in
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Speaker 1: Cheats killed cheaters to get vengeance. Cheaters killed cheat ees
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Speaker 1: to get freedom without having to give up assets or
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Speaker 1: parenting time. Paramore's killed cheats to free the chie Sorry,
21:01
Speaker 1: all I can think of is cheetos. Okay, I'm sorry.
21:05
Speaker 1: You can tell I'm all white watchers right now, I'm
21:07
Speaker 1: living off those little bitty tiny oranges with no seeds
21:12
Speaker 1: in them. Okay, back to cheat ease. Get what what
21:14
Speaker 1: did you say, Dr Russell? Well, people who are cheated
21:17
Speaker 1: on cheat eas killed cheaters when they find out. Cheaters
21:21
Speaker 1: sometimes kill the cheat ees to to try to free
21:24
Speaker 1: themselves from the marriage without having to pay anything or
21:27
Speaker 1: and or lose parenting time and a divorce. Paramore's killed
21:31
Speaker 1: kill spouses of their their affair partners, sometimes to free
21:35
Speaker 1: up the affair partner from the marriage. There are just
21:38
Speaker 1: way too many dangers involved for you to get anywhere
21:42
Speaker 1: near an extra marital affair in any one of those rules. Well,
21:46
Speaker 1: alesis Tourez Chuck, investigative reporter with Radar online dot Com,
21:51
Speaker 1: a cheat t and cheat tour who end up in
21:55
Speaker 1: a murder scenario. I have to think of Scott Peterson.
22:00
Speaker 1: What happened to Scott Peterson, alexis to rest Chuck, Well,
22:03
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson was married to this beautiful woman, lazy, and
22:06
Speaker 1: she was pregnant with their baby. He started having an affair.
22:09
Speaker 1: He cheated on her with a woman called Amber Fry,
22:12
Speaker 1: and he lied to Amber. He told her he was
22:15
Speaker 1: not married I to his girlfriend. Wait a minute, what
22:18
Speaker 1: about lying to his wife. Well, he never told her
22:21
Speaker 1: that he was having an affair, so he was lying
22:23
Speaker 1: to his wife. Now back to his lines with Amber Fry,
22:26
Speaker 1: and believe me, she was not the first Alexis Okay,
22:30
Speaker 1: go ahead. He started dating Amber. She lived about an
22:33
Speaker 1: hour away from him. They were so he was so
22:38
Speaker 1: full of it with her that she put him on
22:40
Speaker 1: her Christmas card. They started dating in November. They were
22:43
Speaker 1: so he had convinced her that they were so serious
22:45
Speaker 1: about the relationship that she put him on her Christmas Oh,
22:47
Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven, trying to refrain from that until
22:50
Speaker 1: after at least the first child, before putting the guy
22:53
Speaker 1: on your Christmas card. But wait a minute, Wait a minute.
22:55
Speaker 1: When you say he was so full of it, he
22:57
Speaker 1: was a fertilizer salesman by Trey aid, you know what
23:00
Speaker 1: that is. Okay, he was selling manure, and boy was
23:04
Speaker 1: he good at it. So let's take a listen, Cheryl McCollum,
23:09
Speaker 1: I really cannot hear these secretly recorded audio tapes enough.
23:13
Speaker 1: Do you remember when they cracked wide open? Cheryl Nancy?
23:17
Speaker 1: I remember it. I loved it because he was so
23:20
Speaker 1: full of it. It was unbelievable. But you know, keep
23:23
Speaker 1: in mind he was such a con artist that there
23:26
Speaker 1: were things that she missed or just chose to ignore.
23:29
Speaker 1: She had never been to his house, she had never
23:32
Speaker 1: met his family, she had never hung out with his friends.
23:35
Speaker 1: So there were signs that this perfect person you know,
23:40
Speaker 1: probably was not being completely open and honest with her.
23:43
Speaker 1: And keep in mind, this is what I tell people
23:45
Speaker 1: all the time, having an affair equals motive. You're putting
23:50
Speaker 1: your self agriff well, Ashley Wilcott. One of the first
23:53
Speaker 1: things I asked when somebody is telling me about their
23:55
Speaker 1: new boyfriend or prospective husband. I'm like, have you been
23:58
Speaker 1: to his place? Number one question? Have you been to
24:02
Speaker 1: his place? That's exactly because if he doesn't take you home,
24:05
Speaker 1: there's a reason why all those signs exactly. You have
24:09
Speaker 1: to know you that's somebody who truly cares about you
24:13
Speaker 1: and is appropriate not having an extramarital affair, is absolutely
24:18
Speaker 1: going to include you in their life. They want you
24:20
Speaker 1: to come over, they want you to meet friends, they
24:22
Speaker 1: want to meet out for dinner with friends and family.
24:24
Speaker 1: If they're not doing that, I'm sorry. Your guts should say, oh,
24:28
Speaker 1: red flag, red flag. So Dr Brian Russell, I know
24:31
Speaker 1: you're the lawyer and you're the psychologist, and you're the
24:34
Speaker 1: host of the hit show Investigation Discoveries Fatal Vows, but
24:37
Speaker 1: can you please listen to us. You need to put
24:40
Speaker 1: that on your list. If the person doesn't take you
24:43
Speaker 1: home to their apartment, no matter how humble, there is
24:47
Speaker 1: no place like home and they don't want you part
24:50
Speaker 1: of their life. To me, that's a big red flag,
24:53
Speaker 1: Dr Brian. But Dr Brian, hold on, hold on, let's
24:57
Speaker 1: listen to the real deal. We're all just apothesizing. Take
25:01
Speaker 1: a listen to Scott Peterson who's being secretly recorded as
25:07
Speaker 1: he convinces his lady love that the reason he can't
25:11
Speaker 1: be with her on New Year's Eve is because he's
25:15
Speaker 1: in Paris with his family and he's hooked up with
25:19
Speaker 1: some French friends, Juck and Pierre. I mean, what a load.
25:24
Speaker 1: Listen Amber, Amber, Yes, I can hear you. Yes, okay, okay,
25:38
Speaker 1: I'm like, stay stiller something. How's your how is union here?
25:46
Speaker 1: How is your New Year? That's good art? Now if
25:51
Speaker 1: they came out of hour that night? Yeah, it is
25:57
Speaker 1: very good. Firearch there for the evil power than people
26:04
Speaker 1: playing songs. That's very funny. Well, that's good. I'm glad
26:10
Speaker 1: you guys said to go out. Definitely. I can never
26:13
Speaker 1: remember your friend's name. I know, Jeff, but you always
26:16
Speaker 1: say a bomb swans and then we have a touch
26:22
Speaker 1: caw frond of our h oh he said, oh yeah, resolution,
26:35
Speaker 1: what with that should it be? What should I hear
26:40
Speaker 1: you guyslution be Oh, I don't know that was my question.
26:46
Speaker 1: I didn't think of that. I'll tell sound good. Yeah, yeah,
26:55
Speaker 1: So where you headed? Um? Well, I don't did you
27:00
Speaker 1: get my message? Let me just happen to point out
27:04
Speaker 1: Alexis Terres Chuck. As he was making this call, trying
27:08
Speaker 1: to convince his mistress that he was out of town
27:12
Speaker 1: on New Year's Eve and couldn't be with her. He
27:14
Speaker 1: was actually prepared to go to the vigil for his
27:18
Speaker 1: then missing wife, Lacy Peterson and his unborn child, baby Connor,
27:24
Speaker 1: who he had killed seven days earlier on Christmas Eve
27:28
Speaker 1: and dumped her body in the San Francis Kobe. Let's
27:31
Speaker 1: take another Listen to one of the masters of the
27:35
Speaker 1: the con Scott Peterson. Okay, I don't want in person
28:00
Speaker 1: telling you this, but I'm called you what I'm sure
28:06
Speaker 1: it's why Cockey called me. Why Why was that? What
28:10
Speaker 1: are you talking about? If you were staying that? I
28:14
Speaker 1: am um, I'll just I'll just tell you you have
28:19
Speaker 1: been watching the news how vifly? Yeah, I have not
28:25
Speaker 1: been traveling during that couples I have. I've vied to
28:31
Speaker 1: you what I've been traveling. M Girl, then dor and
28:41
Speaker 1: GLUSI mhm. She disappeared just before Christmas m hm. Contact
28:49
Speaker 1: two weeks has been in modeskto with her family mind
28:54
Speaker 1: searching for her. Okay, she just disappeared and no one knows. Okay,
29:04
Speaker 1: now she's been there Scott, and I can't tell you
29:08
Speaker 1: more because I needed to be protected from the media
29:16
Speaker 1: and I okay, they are amazing, Scott. Are you listening?
29:24
Speaker 1: Do you came to me in December and told me
29:27
Speaker 1: that you lost your wife? What was that about? She?
29:34
Speaker 1: She's alive? What she's alive? Where she's alive? Where? And now?
29:46
Speaker 1: I know this is the hardest I I wanted to
29:51
Speaker 1: tell you her side. You need to protect yourself from
29:55
Speaker 1: the media, Okay, okay, if you watch the news, well
29:59
Speaker 1: you have yeah, um, the media. I've been telling everyone
30:07
Speaker 1: that I had something to do with her disappearance to
30:11
Speaker 1: the past too many times and hunted by the media,
30:16
Speaker 1: and I just I don't want you to be involved.
30:19
Speaker 1: And then to protect yourself. I know that I you know,
30:26
Speaker 1: I'm destroyed, and I god, I hope, I hope so
30:30
Speaker 1: much that it doesn't hurt you. How could it not
30:35
Speaker 1: affect me? It does? Yeah? I like, how can you
30:41
Speaker 1: possibly think that this would not affect me? And I
30:44
Speaker 1: know it does, but I know I had I've just
30:53
Speaker 1: been tone up about two weeks wanting to tell you,
30:58
Speaker 1: and I'm the week that I have been just I
31:05
Speaker 1: had to call me to tell you that you never,
31:09
Speaker 1: you never asked my questions. I can't. I can't anymore.
31:16
Speaker 1: I think I deserve so much better. There's no question,
31:22
Speaker 1: so much better. Third lesson, First of all, look for
31:28
Speaker 1: mental health and stability. Number two, don't get involved in
31:34
Speaker 1: an affair or relationship with a married person, and don't
31:37
Speaker 1: be that married person. But Dr Brian Russell, your number
31:40
Speaker 1: three is be wary when your partner's first spouse or
31:47
Speaker 1: boyfriend or girlfriend died mysteriously. Doesn't it seem like the
31:51
Speaker 1: most obvious fatal vas lesson in the world, Nancy. If
31:53
Speaker 1: somebody's got a previous partner who is missing from the
31:57
Speaker 1: planet under bizarre circumti dances, wanting to get to the
32:02
Speaker 1: bottom of that before you move an inch in the
32:06
Speaker 1: direction of a relationship with that person ought to be
32:10
Speaker 1: priority number one, if you even want to explore the
32:14
Speaker 1: relationship possibility at all, which would be questionable for me. Yeah,
32:18
Speaker 1: of course there are people like me, Cheryl. When I
32:22
Speaker 1: met David, my fiancee had just been murdered and I had,
32:28
Speaker 1: as you know, dropped out of college. I couldn't go forward.
32:31
Speaker 1: I couldn't even take shower or eat or anything. And
32:36
Speaker 1: when I finally did go back to college. It was
32:39
Speaker 1: with the intent to finish up and go to law school,
32:43
Speaker 1: to put the bad guys behind bars. And I literally,
32:47
Speaker 1: you know, collided with David Lynch. And for the longest time, Cheryl,
32:52
Speaker 1: as I told you, you know, many years ago, I
32:55
Speaker 1: just could not be in love. I don't know. I
32:59
Speaker 1: guess that'd be something for you Dr Russell to figure out.
33:02
Speaker 1: But you know he stuck with me. But long story short,
33:07
Speaker 1: my prior love was dead, had been killed, had been murdered,
33:13
Speaker 1: and I was absolutely damaged goods, There's no doubt about that.
33:18
Speaker 1: So it comes with a mixed bag. If this mysterious circumstances,
33:22
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell is saying stay away, but you know
33:25
Speaker 1: it also comes even if it wasn't mysterious. That person
33:29
Speaker 1: has got a lot of problems. You know I did
33:33
Speaker 1: and do as a result of that crime, Cheryl. Remember
33:36
Speaker 1: that the thing is a little different when you talk
33:41
Speaker 1: about somebody like Threw Peterson or you talk about somebody
33:44
Speaker 1: like men Turner. The difference is they're the only ones
33:49
Speaker 1: telling the narrative of their story. So the people that
33:52
Speaker 1: they need only here their version of what happened to
33:56
Speaker 1: their former loved one. Your story was very like everybody knew.
34:01
Speaker 1: There a record in the court house, everybody in town. Yeah,
34:06
Speaker 1: you know what, You're right, Cheryl McCollum. And you know what,
34:09
Speaker 1: it's not just limited to men. I remember covering a
34:12
Speaker 1: case in my own backyard of Lynn Turner. Okay, she
34:17
Speaker 1: was born Julia Lynn Womack, and she's an American icon
34:22
Speaker 1: in a bad way. She had not one, but two
34:26
Speaker 1: men kill over. First her husband, Glenn Turner, he died
34:30
Speaker 1: after being sick with the flu. And then after that
34:35
Speaker 1: it didn't end There two men that ended up dead.
34:42
Speaker 1: Found out they both died from ethleene glycol e anti freeze.
34:50
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. Prosecutors say defendant Lynn Turner
34:57
Speaker 1: laced jello with anti freeze and fet to her husband.
35:01
Speaker 1: Six years later, they say she put anna freeze in
35:04
Speaker 1: iced tea and gave it to her boyfriend, Randy Thompson.
35:09
Speaker 1: I want me to convict a woman of murder? Can
35:14
Speaker 1: you not at least tell me these things, show me
35:17
Speaker 1: some evidence, so, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case
35:20
Speaker 1: Research Institute. The second man knew the first man had
35:25
Speaker 1: died of an illness, but he didn't know what so
35:29
Speaker 1: I would term that mysterious, Oh, no doubt. And you
35:32
Speaker 1: know one of the husbands was a firefighter, one was
35:35
Speaker 1: a police officer. She had this thing about heroes, and
35:38
Speaker 1: you know she cooked for him all the time and
35:40
Speaker 1: supposedly cared for them when they got ill um but
35:43
Speaker 1: again she didn't want people around. It was only her narrative.
35:46
Speaker 1: All they knew is what she told that. Joining me
35:49
Speaker 1: now is Dr Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst out of Los Angeles,
35:54
Speaker 1: Dr bethany way In. When you are looking at a
35:57
Speaker 1: perspective mate and you find out there's a dead body
36:00
Speaker 1: in the background, well, well, definitely you should find out
36:04
Speaker 1: if they have a criminal record before you date them, right.
36:08
Speaker 1: I would look at everything, especially with all these dating
36:10
Speaker 1: sites out there, see if they have a criminal record,
36:12
Speaker 1: try to get a sense of their financial history. But
36:16
Speaker 1: but a dead body in their background, I think is
36:20
Speaker 1: something one should think about, because seriously, most people who
36:25
Speaker 1: are okay, I love the way you put I think
36:28
Speaker 1: it's definitely something you should think about. Dr Brian Russell
36:32
Speaker 1: hold on, it's not all that romantic to be running
36:36
Speaker 1: your boyfriend's rap sheet. Well, it's true, It's true. Unfortunately, though,
36:42
Speaker 1: what we know is that in the United States of America,
36:45
Speaker 1: people generally gather more information about others when they're thinking
36:50
Speaker 1: about going into some kind of a business deal with
36:52
Speaker 1: them than when they're thinking about getting married. Even though
36:55
Speaker 1: the consequences of marriage and parenting long term are so
36:59
Speaker 1: much more profound than the consequences of getting into a
37:03
Speaker 1: bad business relationship where you might just lose some money.
37:07
Speaker 1: Somebody who has a literal skeleton in their closet is
37:10
Speaker 1: somebody that you really cannot afford to get yourself involved
37:14
Speaker 1: with for for for reasons much greater than financial ladies.
37:17
Speaker 1: Has come to my attention that Dr Brian Russell is
37:20
Speaker 1: currently dating someone. Is that true? Dr Brussel, You're not
37:24
Speaker 1: yet married, not yet, which I have grilled you over
37:28
Speaker 1: in the past. But Dr Russell, could you just be honest.
37:32
Speaker 1: Have you run a rap sheet? I'm taking I have
37:37
Speaker 1: not run a rap sheet. But the reason why is
37:40
Speaker 1: because I've given myself plenty of time to get to
37:45
Speaker 1: know this person and look for you know, if they're
37:48
Speaker 1: R Russell. Just stop right there. Okay, this isn't direct,
37:51
Speaker 1: this is cross exam. I can cut you off. Dr Russell.
37:54
Speaker 1: You need to take your own medicine. Okay, after we
37:58
Speaker 1: get off the air, you can just give a name
38:00
Speaker 1: I dab to Cheryl McCollum and she can run that immediately. Cheryl,
38:03
Speaker 1: how hard is it to get somebody's wrap sheep in? It?
38:05
Speaker 1: Like probably about across the country. It's real quick and
38:10
Speaker 1: there's a lot of fights you can go to and
38:12
Speaker 1: do it online. You don't even have to leave your
38:14
Speaker 1: app see see and and alexis Ashley Dr Bethany. Feel
38:20
Speaker 1: free to give me those dabs and I can still
38:22
Speaker 1: run your husband's wrap sheets for you, just in case
38:25
Speaker 1: you were wondering. Okay, you think, yeah, this is Ashley
38:30
Speaker 1: I did. I gotta just true confession. And my husband
38:33
Speaker 1: little loves you and listen to the show. He's gonna
38:35
Speaker 1: know it all now. I did not only do a
38:37
Speaker 1: background check. Just do a Google search and you can
38:41
Speaker 1: find out things. If there's anything bad, there wasn't, thank god.
38:44
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying it does not take a rocket
38:48
Speaker 1: scientist to look online and figure out if there's any
38:51
Speaker 1: kind of information that should again be a red flag.
38:55
Speaker 1: I even did a medical test on my husband, like
38:57
Speaker 1: I had him to a test. I want to make
38:59
Speaker 1: sure I'd at all of that thinking good thinking. Hey,
39:03
Speaker 1: if they'll love you, they'll let you, They'll let you
39:06
Speaker 1: have a blood test taken. That's exactly let me tell you,
39:09
Speaker 1: that's where you're right. People, Listen to us. We know
39:12
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. We've learned from other people's mistakes.
39:15
Speaker 1: Listen to this special guest, Joe Lopez, defense attorney for
39:18
Speaker 1: Drew Peterson. He delivered the closing argument. The fact that
39:23
Speaker 1: you guys claimed throughout that everybody else was lying, and
39:27
Speaker 1: I'm referring to Kathleen Savio and Stacy Peterson. Why do
39:33
Speaker 1: you say those two ladies were lying? What's in it
39:36
Speaker 1: for them to lie? Well, we have to remember one
39:40
Speaker 1: thing that Kathy was saying whatever she could about Drew
39:44
Speaker 1: to people besides her best friend and the man that
39:48
Speaker 1: she was in love. Was she told things to all
39:50
Speaker 1: these other people. Would never mention anything to the man
39:53
Speaker 1: that you just about lived with and to our next
39:55
Speaker 1: door neighborho talked to do every day. That's absolutely not true,
39:59
Speaker 1: kath Lean Savio, And of course I'm talking about the
40:02
Speaker 1: ultimate don't get involved with someone when there's a dead
40:06
Speaker 1: body in the background. Drew Peterson, his third wife Kathleen
40:10
Speaker 1: Savio told many, many people, including her sister, that she
40:16
Speaker 1: was afraid she ended up dead and drowned dead in
40:20
Speaker 1: a bone dry bathtub covered with bruises. It was only
40:24
Speaker 1: after her body was exhumed years later when the fourth wife, Stacy,
40:29
Speaker 1: goes missing, that her death was determined to be a homicide.
40:34
Speaker 1: Alexis Terres Chuck Radar online dot Com Drew Peterson was
40:38
Speaker 1: in fact a police officer to boot. Stacy Peterson was
40:43
Speaker 1: just a teen when she falls from married Drew Peterson
40:49
Speaker 1: and they begin a relationship while he's still married to
40:52
Speaker 1: Kathleen Savio until whoop, see Kathleen ends up dead and
40:56
Speaker 1: he completely eyed to her. So this was even from
41:01
Speaker 1: the very first thing. Don't dat a married guy, but
41:03
Speaker 1: they the police didn't eat I guess because he was
41:05
Speaker 1: a police officer. When his first third wife, first one
41:09
Speaker 1: that was dead, was found, they said she drowned. She
41:11
Speaker 1: was found in an empty bathtub with bruises all over
41:14
Speaker 1: her body. Yet they called it accidental, accidental drowning. Everybody
41:19
Speaker 1: was protecting this man, and these women did speak out
41:22
Speaker 1: though they told so many people, and because her husband
41:25
Speaker 1: was a respected member law enforcement, they believed him. They
41:28
Speaker 1: were believing his defense attorney who was saying all of
41:30
Speaker 1: this too. Listen to this, joining me right now from
41:33
Speaker 1: Chicago is Joel Brodsky. This is the lawyer for accused
41:38
Speaker 1: wife killer Drew Peterson, former cop Joel Brodsky. Is it
41:44
Speaker 1: true that you put Stacy Peterson on the witness list
41:48
Speaker 1: for trial? Well, the witness list has to contain anybody
41:53
Speaker 1: that's a potential witness. If you don't have them on
41:55
Speaker 1: the list and later on they show up, you can't
41:57
Speaker 1: call them. So there's over We have a lot of
42:01
Speaker 1: people on our witness list. The state has over twift
42:03
Speaker 1: people on their witness list, a lot of people that
42:06
Speaker 1: they maybe want to call but probably won't. So witness
42:10
Speaker 1: lists included Rod cap Plays Brodsky. Uh, you're just giving
42:15
Speaker 1: me a round about about why you put Stacy Peterson
42:20
Speaker 1: on the witness list, because just in case she happens
42:24
Speaker 1: to suddenly appear, you're gonna call her to testify to what. Well,
42:32
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole thing, this whole thing started when
42:34
Speaker 1: she disappeared. Everybody presumed that something untoward happened if she
42:39
Speaker 1: just ran off. All these other presumptions about Drew Peterson
42:43
Speaker 1: kind of disappear into thin air. Really, like all those
42:46
Speaker 1: cuts and bruises on Kathleen Sovia's body, they just disappear
42:49
Speaker 1: in the thin air. Absolutely. Well, you know, we're looking
42:53
Speaker 1: at those the cuts and bruises, for example, the one
42:55
Speaker 1: in the back of the head, that's what she got
42:57
Speaker 1: when she fell in the bathtub. But the other matters,
43:00
Speaker 1: the other bruises that the state talks about are were
43:05
Speaker 1: either older bruises. We've had three pathologists, three prominent pathologists
43:09
Speaker 1: examined uh bruises. So what he beat her before he
43:14
Speaker 1: killed her? Is that what you're saying? No, because no,
43:17
Speaker 1: because those bruises were taken in the regular course of
43:19
Speaker 1: of living and working out and just you know, rolling
43:22
Speaker 1: around and playing with your kids. Because i don't have
43:24
Speaker 1: any bruises on me, and I've got two four year
43:26
Speaker 1: olds and I attempted to work out. I'm not covered
43:30
Speaker 1: in bruises. About if there's an examination, we find there
43:33
Speaker 1: are bruises. Everybody has something right now, and she's absolutely
43:37
Speaker 1: covered head to toe with bruises. That's from h l N.
43:43
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. It really didn't end there. Dr Brian
43:47
Speaker 1: Russell host Fatal Vows on investigation discovery. So on the
43:52
Speaker 1: fourth wife, there's wife one, wife to wife three, Kathleen
43:56
Speaker 1: Savio who ends up dead wife for States Peterson whose
44:00
Speaker 1: body has never been found. But even after that, Brian,
44:04
Speaker 1: he was trying to give other women Stacy Peterson's lingerie
44:10
Speaker 1: and fur coats. I mean, who would he? Who would
44:13
Speaker 1: want use the lingerie that goes without saying but from
44:16
Speaker 1: your missing wife. Yeah, And while I completely agree with you,
44:21
Speaker 1: I completely think it's a good idea to do a
44:23
Speaker 1: background check. Look look at do a Google search, look
44:25
Speaker 1: at people's Sometimes just what you can see on social
44:28
Speaker 1: media says a lot about the person. But I have
44:31
Speaker 1: to also add that not always is there a record.
44:36
Speaker 1: That people can do lots of sociopathic things that don't
44:39
Speaker 1: result in a criminal record. So that's why I'm always saying,
44:42
Speaker 1: you have to spend a good long time with the
44:45
Speaker 1: person and look at things like there. You gotta give
44:49
Speaker 1: yourself time to see their their level of compassion, their ethics,
44:53
Speaker 1: their morals, their work ethic, their integrity, uh their reliability,
44:58
Speaker 1: and and so you have to give yourself time to
45:00
Speaker 1: see them in lots of different situations. How did they
45:03
Speaker 1: treat you when you are sick and you need some help.
45:06
Speaker 1: Do they disappear or do they show up? Are they honest?
45:10
Speaker 1: How do they treat waiters and waitresses and restaurants? Are
45:13
Speaker 1: they jerks? Are they? Are they kind even if the
45:16
Speaker 1: waitress or waiter screws up. I recently was at a
45:19
Speaker 1: party where I talked to somebody who was a waitress
45:23
Speaker 1: who told me asked me if I was still in
45:25
Speaker 1: contact with a woman that I had dated several years ago,
45:29
Speaker 1: and I said, no, not really, and she said, well,
45:30
Speaker 1: that's too bad, because that woman is coming into my
45:33
Speaker 1: restaurant with a new guy who flashes cash around. But
45:38
Speaker 1: then when it's time to pay, credit card number one
45:41
Speaker 1: sometimes doesn't go through and we have to use credit
45:43
Speaker 1: card number two and he's a jerk to us. So
45:46
Speaker 1: he's a jerk, he's a poser, And I'm kind of
45:49
Speaker 1: concerned about her. And I said, well, I am too,
45:52
Speaker 1: And if I were still in contact with her, I'd
45:54
Speaker 1: tell her to be aware of this guy. So he
45:56
Speaker 1: may not have a criminal record, but those kinds of things.
46:00
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, so it's a red flag if your
46:02
Speaker 1: card your credit cards rejected, Because I'm in big, big trouble.
46:05
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, Cheryl McCollum at Christmas time, and I
46:09
Speaker 1: don't want to give away any secrets in case my
46:12
Speaker 1: twins are listening right now. But I kept having my
46:16
Speaker 1: I tried to get the Best Buy credit card and
46:18
Speaker 1: I was totally rejecting. There was a huge, big, long line. Okay.
46:23
Speaker 1: Then I try to get a Target credit card to
46:25
Speaker 1: get the you know discount. If you buy X amount
46:27
Speaker 1: you get a ten percent discount on the spot. I
46:30
Speaker 1: was totally rejected. Okay, I'm starting to wonder why, because
46:34
Speaker 1: I work happen late my bills. Turns out, Cheryl McCollum,
46:39
Speaker 1: about a year ago, my passport got stolen in the
46:44
Speaker 1: post office, okay, and never made it out of the
46:48
Speaker 1: post office because they found the envelope that it had
46:51
Speaker 1: been in on the post office floor. Okay. So anyway,
46:55
Speaker 1: at that moment, you know, when your passport stolen, that
47:00
Speaker 1: that's bad. So there was a freeze put on all
47:03
Speaker 1: my my dear I almost said, Julie departed, whoopsie um.
47:07
Speaker 1: My dear husband followed the advice of whoever he's talking to,
47:12
Speaker 1: and he froze all my accounts so nobody could take
47:15
Speaker 1: out a credit card or anything like that. And I
47:18
Speaker 1: guess he told me at the time, but I wasn't
47:20
Speaker 1: thinking about it this Christmas until I got turned down
47:24
Speaker 1: for two credit cards. Can I tell you the looks
47:26
Speaker 1: on people's faces behind me when I get turned There's
47:29
Speaker 1: a huge long line and everybody's piste off. They're ny
47:34
Speaker 1: go home, and I'm trying to get a credit card.
47:37
Speaker 1: But well, but wait a minute, why am I not
47:38
Speaker 1: getting a Target or a Best Bike credit card? And
47:42
Speaker 1: I had to deal at the walk of shame and
47:45
Speaker 1: leave the store. So you know, hold on there about
47:49
Speaker 1: the credit cards getting rejected, Cheryl, Well, the point he made, too,
47:54
Speaker 1: was that he would flash all of this cash as
47:56
Speaker 1: though he was well off. And that's where the posing
48:00
Speaker 1: in with Drew Peterson. He was forty seven years old
48:05
Speaker 1: when he shows up to date a nineteen year old safety. Now,
48:09
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tay, I have a teenage daughter in my
48:12
Speaker 1: house and if a forty seven year old mate knocked
48:16
Speaker 1: on my door to pick her up for a day,
48:20
Speaker 1: as my father used to say, he'd get off that
48:23
Speaker 1: porch a whole lot quicker and he got on it.
48:28
Speaker 1: Oh oh my stars, Okay, wait a minute, wait minute,
48:31
Speaker 1: Hold on, Hold on, Hold, hold your horses. We have
48:35
Speaker 1: time for just one more lesson from Dr Brian Russell,
48:39
Speaker 1: host a fatal vows on investigation discovery. Go ahead and
48:42
Speaker 1: rub it in. You're not only a psychologist, you're a
48:44
Speaker 1: lawyer to Okay, hold on, let's go with You've got
48:48
Speaker 1: so many lessons and they're all good. But I think
48:51
Speaker 1: you're right, Dr Brian. I think that addiction is abusive
48:56
Speaker 1: is a really good one and you know, no offense.
49:01
Speaker 1: But let's start with my whole buddy, Charlie Shane, Dr
49:05
Speaker 1: Brian Russell. I mean he his longtime wife stuck with him,
49:10
Speaker 1: had two children, has adopted the third. They got divorced,
49:14
Speaker 1: and there's been one string. There's been a long string
49:18
Speaker 1: of one woman after the next. But according to him,
49:22
Speaker 1: Charlie Shane, he has an addiction. And you're absolutely right, Nancy,
49:26
Speaker 1: you absolutely do not want to be in a relationship
49:30
Speaker 1: with an addict. In my opinion, it's not a disease
49:33
Speaker 1: and it isn't a please get help situation. It is
49:36
Speaker 1: a you're out of here and you're not coming back,
49:40
Speaker 1: at least until you've gotten help and established a sustained
49:44
Speaker 1: I'm talking long term pattern of clean, sober saying safe
49:49
Speaker 1: responsible living. People ask me sometimes, well, I'm thinking about
49:53
Speaker 1: dating somebody that's got history of addiction in their past.
49:57
Speaker 1: How long should they be clean and sober before I
49:59
Speaker 1: think about in relationship. I tell him ten years, ten
50:02
Speaker 1: years of clean and sober living, and never ever ever
50:05
Speaker 1: start a relationship with somebody while they or you are
50:11
Speaker 1: in rehab. That is one of the worst time You're
50:14
Speaker 1: You're gonna make some of the worst decisions, and they're
50:17
Speaker 1: gonna make some of the worst decisions during that time.
50:20
Speaker 1: Remind me of circle back. I've got a question for you,
50:22
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell Um, you know to Dr Bethany Marshall
50:27
Speaker 1: joining US psychoanalyst Oude of l A. Dr Bethany, When
50:30
Speaker 1: I think about Denise Richards, she you know that was
50:33
Speaker 1: Charlie Sheen's wife. I think he's been married twice. She
50:36
Speaker 1: never trashes him. She you know, stands I wouldn't say
50:40
Speaker 1: stands by, and but she's doing her best. I think
50:42
Speaker 1: to raise those three children two by Sheen, you know,
50:47
Speaker 1: this shows it's not all about looks. Denise Richards was
50:50
Speaker 1: a bond girl for Pete's sake, Yet the husband cheats
50:56
Speaker 1: and is with hookers. And and all sorts of bad behavior.
51:03
Speaker 1: So it's not when somebody says, oh, my stars, his
51:07
Speaker 1: wife is beautiful, why would he cheat? That has really
51:10
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, right, It has absolutely nothing
51:13
Speaker 1: to do with it. And you know, Dr Brian Russell
51:15
Speaker 1: went through such a nice list of things to look
51:18
Speaker 1: for when you're dating. I liked the credit card example
51:21
Speaker 1: I had that happened many years ago. I dated someone
51:24
Speaker 1: briefly who we went to dinner and one credit card
51:28
Speaker 1: after the other was declined. And I dated him very briefly,
51:31
Speaker 1: but I found out that he had all these businesses
51:35
Speaker 1: that were fake businesses, like he pretended to be this
51:38
Speaker 1: big entrepreneur but nothing in his life. I was just
51:40
Speaker 1: about to say, when the man says I'm an entrepreneur,
51:43
Speaker 1: at run Run, they can tell you exactly what it
51:46
Speaker 1: is they do. Run Run. You don't want to be
51:50
Speaker 1: supporting some man. Hey, Dr Russell, let me circle back.
51:53
Speaker 1: If you find out the guy has ever ever use prostitutes,
51:58
Speaker 1: do you think that that's kind of a bad thing. Absolutely,
52:01
Speaker 1: because it says something about the person's character that does
52:05
Speaker 1: not go a wet character. That's why I always say,
52:08
Speaker 1: you know, even if somebody tells you things that make
52:12
Speaker 1: you sad about things they did in their childhood or whatever.
52:15
Speaker 1: If they're things like stealing, if they're things like intentionally
52:19
Speaker 1: destroying things, the things that suggest bad character. That usually
52:24
Speaker 1: does not change character pretty much. Stage about online cheating,
52:29
Speaker 1: do you think that's a bad It doesn't matter if
52:32
Speaker 1: it's online or in real life. Cheating is cheating is cheating.
52:35
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell. I really hate to go because I'm
52:39
Speaker 1: having so much fun talking about bad guys. That's why
52:41
Speaker 1: I threw some bad women in there. I don't want
52:43
Speaker 1: the men to feel left out? So where can I
52:45
Speaker 1: find your list? God help me? Please don't put me
52:48
Speaker 1: back on the market and nobody would be interested in me,
52:50
Speaker 1: but Dr Brian Russell, where can I find your list?
52:54
Speaker 1: I will put the complete list of all the lessons
52:56
Speaker 1: learned from five seasons of Fatal Vows on my social
52:59
Speaker 1: media today Valentine's Day. That's Dr Brian Russell on Facebook
53:03
Speaker 1: and Twitter. Dr Brian Russell. I'm just just looking at
53:06
Speaker 1: your picture right now. One quick question. Are those your
53:08
Speaker 1: real teeth? They're awesome? I made They're perfect? Is that
53:12
Speaker 1: real than you? They are real? Thank you? I wonder
53:18
Speaker 1: if we should add that to the list. Stay away
53:20
Speaker 1: from men that are too good looking. You certainly don't
53:23
Speaker 1: want a man that's prettier than you, Okay, because that's
53:25
Speaker 1: just bad for yourself image. Okay. Alexis to rash Chuck,
53:28
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott, Sheryl McCollum, Dr Bethany Marshall and Dr Brian
53:33
Speaker 1: Russell from Fatal Vows. Happy Valentine's Day, Nancy Nancy Grace
53:40
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, signing off, and Lord, thank you for me
53:44
Speaker 1: not having to date right now. Goodbye friend,