Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster - Season 21 (featuring David Gillespie-Pratt, Paul Cresser & Steven B)

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Strictly Come Hamster - Season 21 (featuring David Gillespie-Pratt, Paul Cresser & Steven B) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:04
  Doctor, unlock this door. What are you doing there?
• 0:09
  Are you been on this door or not?
• 0:11
  Ah, Stutzy, have you had a good rest?
• 0:13
  Have. You dozed it.
• 0:14
  Open this door. Sorry, it seems to be locked.
• 0:17
  Come, I gotta get that cut of gear.
• 0:20
  Now. Listen doctor, be reasonable.
• 0:22
  This won't do you any good. Stotzi, we'll be touching down
• 0:25
  in a couple of minutes, or more likely crashing down.
• 0:28
  You see, I'm a bit out of practice with manual landing, so
• 0:31
  if I were you, I'd find something firm to hang on to.
• 0:34
  I'll murder you when I get in there, Doctor.
• 1:01
  Nice slip hands in the end over here.
• 1:02
  Why it kind of kill you if you don't?
• 1:04
  Not a very frustrative argument, actually stops because I'm going
• 1:07
  to die soon anyway. Unless, of course.
• 1:09
  I give it to a count of three. Unless, of course, I can find
• 1:11
  the antidote. I owe it to my friend to try
• 1:13
  because I got her into this. Take a seat.
• 1:15
  I'm not going to it just. Stop me now.
• 1:52
  Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster, the Doctor Who
• 1:54
  Championship podcast. Today we're taking a trip back
• 1:57
  to 1984 when we joined the Doctor, Tegan and Tullow and
• 2:00
  enjoy the hangover from the 20th anniversary celebrations.
• 2:04
  It's Peter Davidson's final season, it's Janet Fielding's
• 2:07
  final season, it's Mark Strickson's final season.
• 2:11
  So there's a bit of a theme of change kind of throughout this
• 2:14
  year. We also have Nicola Bryant
• 2:16
  joining. And then right at the end, in
• 2:18
  particular this run of six stories, we have the whirlwind
• 2:21
  of colour that is Colin Baker taking over.
• 2:23
  The week. Oh yes, finally.
• 2:26
  This is a journey that's taking us from the bottom of the sea to
• 2:28
  the edge of the universe, and then we're popping off to
• 2:30
  Lanzarote because somebody fancied a holiday.
• 2:33
  As always on this quest back to the 80s, we're joined by the
• 2:37
  leader, the commander, the person who brought this all
• 2:39
  together. Go forward.
• 2:42
  Leader Commander, That means your suggestion there's some
• 2:46
  kind of fucking structure to this podcast?
• 2:49
  There's a. Structure.
• 2:50
  There is a structure. It's loose, but it's a
• 2:52
  structure. Yeah, the structure is drafting
• 2:54
  other people to host and just kick back and enjoy yourself.
• 2:58
  Hello there. Yes, I'm delighted.
• 3:00
  I've been watching season 21 episodes over the last week and
• 3:05
  I have to say I have reached some conclusions about it, which
• 3:09
  I don't think any of my guests are going to agree with.
• 3:12
  But anyway, we will get there. Well.
• 3:13
  That that is why we're all here, because if we all agreed,
• 3:16
  wouldn't the world be boring? And of course, we are joined by
• 3:20
  two very special guests and I'm going to hand over and let them
• 3:22
  introduce themselves. So, Paul, do you want to
• 3:25
  introduce yourself? Well, I wasn't expecting that.
• 3:28
  OK, yes, my name is Paul Cresser.
• 3:31
  I've been a Doctor Who fan for quite some time now.
• 3:35
  Well, at some time. How long have you been a Doctor
• 3:37
  Who fan for? Since 1980, since the repeat
• 3:42
  showing of Destiny of the Daleks.
• 3:45
  Do you know what? So many people came in on
• 3:47
  Destiny of the Daleks. I think Cycle came in on Destiny
• 3:51
  of the Daleks as well. And your your world was changed
• 3:53
  ever since. Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:56
  Now, look, you're an adult now. You know, you're a grown man.
• 3:59
  And why are you still watching Doctor Who?
• 4:00
  Now tell me. Because I still love it.
• 4:04
  It's never gone away. I don't know.
• 4:07
  I honestly don't know. Sometimes I wonder when I watch
• 4:09
  some of the episodes lately, but overall, it's still there.
• 4:14
  There's still that something that Do you know what it is?
• 4:16
  I'll tell you what. It is.
• 4:17
  I think we're all just big kids at heart, you know?
• 4:20
  Well, there is that too. Or we like we like, do you know,
• 4:23
  sorry, side note, immediately before we even go into this
• 4:26
  episode, I mean, last night I came home.
• 4:28
  Yeah. Marv Raft watching 1995 episodes
• 4:31
  of Live and Kicking on YouTube and then followed that up with
• 4:35
  the Blue Peter Christmas special from 1997.
• 4:37
  He's still living in 1995. I'm telling you now, nostalgia
• 4:41
  is real. It's very Sometimes I'll come
• 4:45
  home and I'll find my husband watching clips with a Big
• 4:46
  Breakfast and sometimes. It's a little bad episode with a
• 4:51
  Big Breakfast. Because it's like this is how
• 4:52
  bad it got. Excuse me, Zika's like oh God,
• 4:56
  we will talk about season 21 at one point, I promise.
• 4:58
  Do you know Zika and Zag? Once Upon a time they met the
• 5:02
  Sontaran from Shakedown Return of the Sontarans.
• 5:04
  When that came out, they were advertising that on the Big
• 5:06
  Breakfast. Yeah, that's the crossover I was
• 5:09
  not anticipating. Oh.
• 5:10
  There we go. Sorry, I'll shut up now.
• 5:14
  And welcome to Stephen. Thank you.
• 5:17
  Coming back for season 21 after doing season 22 of Strictly Come
• 5:22
  Hamster. Last time I came to bury season
• 5:25
  22 and and gave a well Valiardian persecution against
• 5:29
  the excesses of Sabre Orian violence.
• 5:33
  This time, I have to be honest, I'm coming to season 22 not to
• 5:36
  bury, but to praise the 5th Doctor.
• 5:37
  So that might set the tone for the rest of the day for us, I
• 5:41
  think. But delighted to be back and
• 5:43
  delighted also to be talking for the first time with David and
• 5:46
  Paul. Yeah, we're looking forward to
• 5:49
  this. I'm absolutely going to take you
• 5:51
  to task on this. You know there are many
• 5:53
  similarities between 21 and 22. Which is better?
• 5:58
  That's the question. Can.
• 5:59
  One man? Can one man literally change the
• 6:02
  tone of an entire season? Let's find out.
• 6:06
  Which man, that's the question. Well, as always, we are going to
• 6:11
  look at the comments from our listeners.
• 6:13
  But first, what do we think of season 21?
• 6:16
  So I'm going to go to Joe first. OK, I'm.
• 6:20
  Perfectly convinced this is the season that Eric Saywood's
• 6:23
  award, however you choose to say his name, is at his most
• 6:27
  comfortable. I think the 20th has gone down
• 6:30
  really well. I think we're not in 22 where he
• 6:34
  suddenly hates the acts of playing the doctor.
• 6:37
  And he's got an almost reliable sable of writers and the tone
• 6:43
  massacres are in. Charm and humor have been shown
• 6:46
  the door and he's very comfortable indeed.
• 6:50
  I think it's a as confident a season as perhaps you're going
• 6:55
  to get mid 80s, but there's a lot of problems and I think the
• 6:59
  biggest problem is production value wise, it's about as
• 7:03
  inconsistent as the 80s come. You get some of the very best
• 7:06
  productions and some of the very worst in season 21, regardless
• 7:11
  of whether the script's good or not.
• 7:13
  And I think the money on the screen can tank or make a a
• 7:20
  story a success. So it's a really interesting one
• 7:22
  to talk about, but I think it's probably say was best probably,
• 7:28
  probably. Paul season 21 Love it or lose
• 7:31
  it. I love it.
• 7:35
  I knew it. When I was in 1984, when I was
• 7:39
  13, this was everything I wanted Doctor Who to be.
• 7:44
  You know, I'd been a fan for, I say about four years, and I
• 7:48
  loved Doctor Who, but there was this received and wisdom that it
• 7:52
  wasn't as good as it was. It used to be darker.
• 7:55
  It used to be more violent. And then along comes season 21.
• 7:59
  I'm like, yes, this is what it's supposed to be.
• 8:01
  And I lapped. It up.
• 8:04
  You like a massacre then, do you?
• 8:06
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, in my opinions have
• 8:10
  slightly changed over the years. Obviously I'm a bit older now
• 8:14
  and I look at things with a different, different viewpoint
• 8:17
  and I'm watching it for this. I've tried to be objective
• 8:20
  because I could quite easily have looked at it very
• 8:22
  subjectively and gone. They're all brilliant.
• 8:23
  I love them all, they're all going through.
• 8:25
  But I've tried to be subjective, sorry, objective.
• 8:31
  And I also have a letter that I sent to John Nathan Turner in
• 8:36
  1984 in which I give him a one line review of each story and a
• 8:45
  mark out of 10 you. Sent a review to John Nathan
• 8:50
  Turner of his own work. Oh, I love you, I love you.
• 8:55
  I can't imagine what, well, I can.
• 8:57
  I can imagine what he would have said had he actually ever seen
• 9:00
  it. But I've actually had this
• 9:02
  letter back because as part of it, I asked a series of inane
• 9:05
  questions which some poor sod in the production officers
• 9:08
  scribbled little answers to and said the whole letter came back
• 9:10
  to me, which is the only reason I still have this evidence of
• 9:13
  what I did back then. So I'll I'll tell you those once
• 9:18
  we get to each individual story. But my overall comment at the
• 9:21
  end was I think that the 21st season is your best so far.
• 9:25
  Oh, wonderful. That's where we're starting
• 9:28
  from. So we're going to get your one
• 9:29
  line reviews though, yeah, as we go through.
• 9:31
  This. Oh yeah.
• 9:32
  Oh yeah, yeah. We'll we'll determine whether
• 9:35
  you know your opinion back in the day or now is better or not,
• 9:37
  OK? I have I have a feeling where
• 9:40
  this might go with Stephen. Your Season 21 views.
• 9:44
  Well, I, I said I'd come to to praise the 5th Doctor and I
• 9:48
  think this is perhaps objectively the best of the
• 9:51
  three 5th Doctor series, but it's not my favorite.
• 9:54
  And I definitely can see the flaws in this.
• 9:57
  I think there are, as you say, Joe, some amazing highs, but
• 9:59
  also some incredible lows here. And there's precedents that are
• 10:02
  set for what will come later on in in what is now the history of
• 10:06
  Doctor Who. And we all know how those things
• 10:08
  turned out. And the seeds of that are
• 10:10
  largely so in here, I think. So I have, I have mixed feelings
• 10:13
  about season 21. It was the a season that when I
• 10:18
  first saw it, I guess I was still in love with Doctor Who.
• 10:22
  I didn't have that critical faculty that I was able to sort
• 10:24
  of create and develop for myself when I was watching season 22 a
• 10:28
  little bit later. So I still think there's a Sheen
• 10:31
  of that nostalgia and childhood innocence attached to my viewing
• 10:34
  of it. But there's also a much more
• 10:37
  critical view, as, as Paul mentioned earlier as well, about
• 10:41
  not necessarily entire stories but moments perhaps throughout
• 10:45
  the season where you can sort of start to see why Season 22 and
• 10:50
  Season 23 in parts went the way that they did.
• 10:53
  What a shame that we developed those critical faculties and we
• 10:57
  can't just love it all. Mind you, we wouldn't be here
• 10:59
  talking about it now otherwise, would we?
• 11:02
  We'd be sitting here being really positive and saying how
• 11:04
  much we loved everything, which is great, but sometimes it can
• 11:06
  get. Tedious, yeah.
• 11:08
  No one wants to listen to that. No.
• 11:11
  For me, if this is not a top season, but I I enjoyed watching
• 11:16
  it this time around, it's definitely, I think Peter
• 11:20
  Davison's best in terms of it's giving him some proper meaty
• 11:24
  parts to get into. I think he's really passive and
• 11:26
  a lot of 20 and I think he he's much, much more active.
• 11:31
  But the unsung hero for me was Mark Strickson, I think when
• 11:35
  they bothered to write him some stuff to do.
• 11:37
  And there's he does get quite a lot to do in some of these
• 11:40
  stories, not all of them. And he gives some really good
• 11:44
  performances. Jax Fielding's also there.
• 11:48
  Because he just gets his knickers out in one episode that
• 11:51
  that's. Why you're And that is
• 11:53
  definitely not a reason why I'm saying that because he's
• 11:55
  absolutely not my type. I don't say that my other arms
• 11:59
  are redhead. But is it, you know, of these,
• 12:05
  the six that we're looking at, apart from one really obvious
• 12:08
  one, these are really some really solid productions.
• 12:11
  I think they all hold up quite well, issues with scripting and
• 12:15
  tone and all that. But you've got some good
• 12:17
  production, some really good guest casts.
• 12:18
  You've got a really consistent run of guest casts.
• 12:22
  It's just not a lot of room for fun.
• 12:24
  It's quite grim. But I think, Joe, you said this
• 12:27
  is Saywood's year. This is the year where it kind
• 12:29
  of feels like his vision for Doctor Who and it's very macho
• 12:35
  in places and it's it can be quite grim, but it's not without
• 12:39
  its merits. And actually of this is Bunley
• 12:42
  third time on a strictly and I did season 12 Jodie second
• 12:47
  season and season 13 Tom second season.
• 12:50
  This has probably been the toughest to call in terms of
• 12:53
  deciding what to keep and what to be.
• 12:55
  There's a few where I'm on the fence because there's a lot to
• 12:58
  like, but there's also things that I don't like.
• 13:01
  So this I could go either way with some of these stories, do
• 13:04
  you know? Right I think you can you know
• 13:06
  you know we've all sort of said say was quite comfortable here.
• 13:09
  You can pinpoint it down to a single line in a single story of
• 13:14
  like that's Eric's say was approach to Doctor Who you ready
• 13:17
  It's when Tom Adams looks at the screen and goes you'll get no
• 13:20
  help from me sign Louie and that's it that tone is that's
• 13:25
  that's Eric's say was right there.
• 13:26
  Can I very quickly address the elephant in the room before we
• 13:30
  go any further because I have been taken to task by about four
• 13:34
  people this week when I said we're discussing season 21 and
• 13:38
  obviously we are not talking about the twin dilemma, I'm.
• 13:41
  Disgusted about that just. So I can, you know, go to sleep
• 13:45
  tonight and my rather be in my ear going, oh, it's all wrong.
• 13:49
  It's all wrong. Would everybody please just give
• 13:52
  a one line review of the Twin Dilemma?
• 13:56
  I know, Stephen, you've already given a meteoric rant about that
• 13:59
  particular story. Oh, get me?
• 14:01
  Started but. I'm going to throw it over to
• 14:04
  Paul first. What's your one line review of
• 14:05
  between? Oh, I went well. 13 year old me,
• 14:09
  his one line review is sorry this wasn't as good as it could
• 14:15
  have been. The Jaconda, Actually it's a two
• 14:19
  line. This is a 2 line.
• 14:19
  I go into a whole 2 lines. The Jaconda's costumes weren't
• 14:22
  too bad, except the paper mustache scathing I.
• 14:32
  Still. Can.
• 14:34
  I like it, but I can still remember that jolt of losing my
• 14:40
  Doctor and having this new bloke basically trashing him on the
• 14:45
  screen within the in the next few episodes, saying how shitty
• 14:47
  was. And I'm like, but that's who
• 14:50
  I've been loving for these last couple of these years.
• 14:53
  So it was a shock and it still, I still can't shake that, that
• 14:57
  feeling, even watching it. I haven't watched it for quite a
• 14:59
  few years. I was going to watch it as part
• 15:00
  of this and then I never got around to it.
• 15:02
  But I realized you didn't. Have to wait.
• 15:03
  Thank God, Steven. No, no, please refer to the
• 15:10
  season 22 strictly come hamster and my meteoric rant.
• 15:13
  As you say, Joe, it's quite rightly, you know, voted as the
• 15:17
  worst Doctor Who's story of all time.
• 15:19
  That's what I'm saying, you know.
• 15:20
  He actually went to the point where he was sort of in his
• 15:23
  microphone going, how dare you, how dare you put this on the TV,
• 15:28
  you know? David Well, when?
• 15:32
  We finished the Davis that we watched Twin Dilemma just to be
• 15:35
  completionist. And I always try to go in, go
• 15:39
  in, It's as bad, you know, come on, look for the positive.
• 15:42
  And I think Part 1 is possibly one of the worst opening
• 15:47
  episodes of any story. It's just a litany of poor
• 15:50
  decisions, you know, everything making the doctor and Michael,
• 15:53
  the strangling coming out of Andrew Zahni in that big ending.
• 15:57
  And then the opening scene, Twin dilemma is the twins and their
• 16:00
  father kind of blandly talking about equations.
• 16:03
  It's like, and it's just really like, it gets better in the
• 16:09
  second-half. There are the bit, there are
• 16:10
  some decent moments in the second-half and Colin when he
• 16:14
  tones it down, specially with the death scene of as meal,
• 16:18
  that's really good but there is just so much wrong with it.
• 16:22
  And I'll just say Colin Baker, Nicola Bryant, Kevin McNally,
• 16:27
  Maurice Denham, 8 out of 10 and leave it right there.
• 16:35
  It also. Does have one of the most ugly
• 16:36
  expressions any actor's ever given on Doctor Who.
• 16:39
  And that's the end of Part 2, when Perry thinks the Doctor's
• 16:41
  been blown up and she just just crutches her face up in kind of
• 16:44
  what what, what was the direction there?
• 16:46
  What's the emotion that you're showing here?
• 16:48
  It is embarrassing. It's.
• 16:51
  Also got the ultimate line, you can say when a grinder date
• 16:57
  comes round, I'll say date. They're not really dates, are
• 16:59
  they? It's when someone unsheats and
• 17:02
  you can go oh wow, craggy knob, you know, wonderful.
• 17:07
  Oh, are you? Joe, you're low in the tone.
• 17:10
  Yeah, that's not. What people come here for?
• 17:12
  Oh, no, sorry. No it.
• 17:16
  Isn't it is He's right. Right before we crack on with
• 17:20
  the six stories, we've had quite a lot of comments from
• 17:23
  listeners. You could literally say this
• 17:25
  podcast is crawling with comments.
• 17:27
  Getting the same with isms in there.
• 17:28
  Well done. So we're going to throw that
• 17:31
  over to Paul and Stephen to go through the 1st batch of
• 17:34
  listener comments, OK. Luke Sims Jenkins says.
• 17:38
  I love season 21 and this TARDIS team.
• 17:40
  The end of my favorite era of Who.
• 17:43
  I get that. They Flint not as unremittingly
• 17:46
  bleak as its reputation, but still its lack of humor can be a
• 17:50
  slog. Davison is at his best though,
• 17:53
  and the change in tone from the ethereal Season 19 is more to my
• 17:56
  taste. However, the say word of it all
• 17:59
  is starting to show and the seeds of cancellation are shown
• 18:02
  are sown here rather. Oh, the Saywood of it all.
• 18:07
  I think there's a lot of mention of Saywood in these comments.
• 18:10
  Can. We just is that how you say it?
• 18:12
  Just so I I get it right, I'm sure.
• 18:13
  It's a ward. Pretty sure.
• 18:16
  Yeah, say would. OK, I.
• 18:18
  Think so. Michael.
• 18:20
  Storm season 21 should have been the culmination of the Saywood
• 18:25
  era ethos, A gritty, violent universe full of clunky macho
• 18:28
  dialogue being faced off by the far too nice 5th Doctor
• 18:32
  sacrificing himself for a single person.
• 18:35
  But what it does instead is leave a nasty after taste going
• 18:38
  forward. Mackie is at MAQUIS if we're
• 18:43
  being French. Thank God for Robert Holmes
• 18:45
  ripping off June because this pig style of the season will
• 18:48
  drop by a couple letter grades if Andresani weren't in it.
• 18:51
  Next toy, right, Kieran? Evans A A transitional season
• 18:56
  with three changes of leads in three stories.
• 18:59
  Quite dark in places with probably the strongest writing
• 19:01
  for the 5th Doctor. But is it too grim?
• 19:05
  Maybe a sign of things to come. I'm wondering whether this is
• 19:09
  you in disguise, Paul, but there's a Stephen with Aph who
• 19:12
  writes. When I was 13 I thought this was
• 19:14
  a perfect season. Nods to the past Daleks,
• 19:17
  regeneration, overseas location work.
• 19:18
  Bob Holmes returning to a now the awakening in Frontier still
• 19:23
  impress, as does Caves, but it's template casts a long shadow
• 19:26
  over season 22. See if.
• 19:28
  You were 13 in 1984. This was.
• 19:30
  Perfect, Jeff. Goddard As a child of the 80s, I
• 19:36
  have a huge love for this season.
• 19:39
  People talk about the tone of Tom's final season, but this one
• 19:42
  just gets bleaker and bleaker. Every story scared me witless as
• 19:45
  a kid, especially the Awakening and Frontios.
• 19:48
  I could go into endless detail, but I'll listen to you guys
• 19:51
  instead. Oh.
• 19:52
  Lovely. He's so lovely.
• 19:54
  Brilliant Jeff is lovely. Daniel Knight.
• 19:57
  This is Pete who nostalgia for me.
• 19:59
  I absolutely love this as a kid. Now I find Eric Seyward's
• 20:02
  penchant for mindless macho violence lacking in fun and
• 20:05
  humour. Peter Davidson is terrific
• 20:07
  though, a more proactive Dr. than the previous season, firing
• 20:10
  on all cylinders and making the part his own.
• 20:13
  It's definitely. Pro Davis's performance in these
• 20:16
  comments isn't it. Oh.
• 20:17
  Yeah, Yeah, I think that's reasonable to say as well.
• 20:22
  Let's. Move on to our first story.
• 20:23
  And being that this is your first time around, Paul, that's
• 20:28
  so. Mean.
• 20:30
  I just, I knew you were going to do that.
• 20:33
  I would have eased you. In gently, but here we are.
• 20:36
  Why? Thank you.
• 20:39
  Right? What should I go for?
• 20:42
  I want to. Be positive I I did try the
• 20:45
  choose three to put through three to bin approach but I'm
• 20:50
  wavering on the 4th and I still don't know which way to go.
• 20:53
  So there's three I definitely want to put through and I've
• 20:56
  what I've listened to this podcast before, so I'm not going
• 20:58
  to go for my favorite because I want my vote to count.
• 21:00
  Oh well done. So, people.
• 21:03
  Are learning how to play this game.
• 21:07
  So I'll. Probably go for my second
• 21:08
  favorite frontios. So what did I say?
• 21:12
  Let's start with what did I say in 1983?
• 21:14
  What did 13 year old me say? Another good story, much better
• 21:19
  than chapter bid meets others Lagopolis and Castro Valva
• 21:22
  because obviously JNT wouldn't have known that the tractators
• 21:25
  were very original. 9 out of 10/9. 9.
• 21:31
  Young Paul Cresser sounds like he's a very smart lad, you know.
• 21:34
  Did you know the names of Lagopolis and Casseraba?
• 21:36
  Or were you like referring to the program guide when writing
• 21:39
  your letter? Oh.
• 21:40
  I would have known that by then. Oh yeah, I knew everything by
• 21:45
  then. Yes, Frontios is my second
• 21:48
  favorite story of the season. It does.
• 21:51
  Have its flaws, I think they're mostly in the realization of the
• 21:56
  ideas of a script. There are some nice shots but
• 21:59
  Ron Jones direction is pretty flat and it's very much a shame
• 22:05
  that it's all in studio. I think even if they'd used like
• 22:08
  film for the ex exterior scenes as such, that might have helped
• 22:13
  sell it better. The same criticism I say for the
• 22:15
  kinder jungle. Basically that that kinder
• 22:18
  jungle would have probably looked quite good if it had been
• 22:19
  done on film. And you know what's really sad
• 22:22
  is Ron Jones is actually getting better.
• 22:23
  You know this isn't a better attempt than Timefly, I'd say.
• 22:29
  Oh God, you know, yeah. I mean, there is some, there is
• 22:31
  some nice stuff in it. There are some nice shots, but
• 22:34
  they're all very static. There's very little movement of
• 22:37
  the camera, which there's another director in the season I
• 22:40
  can say the same about like I. Wonder.
• 22:43
  If you know, if we knew that the cameras moved until Kate's
• 22:46
  evangelist only came. Oh, they do move OK.
• 22:51
  Then there's things like the the white studio sky when they're on
• 22:54
  the top of the ship, which is at variance with everything else
• 22:58
  we've seen from down below, from up above, this reddish hue range
• 23:02
  referring to a darkening of the sky.
• 23:04
  And then we cut to this bright white.
• 23:09
  But that said, I think the sets are generally good.
• 23:12
  I like how they avoid having a flat studio floor in places.
• 23:15
  Places like the medical centre. Flat smooth floors in caves is
• 23:19
  something I might come back to later.
• 23:21
  The tractators, I mean, they should be ridiculous, but I love
• 23:25
  them. Should be.
• 23:26
  Did you say should? They are, I know, but I love
• 23:31
  them and I think they look really imposing, even if they do
• 23:34
  have some mobility issues. They're probably better when
• 23:36
  they're stood still and don't try to use their hands.
• 23:39
  But what can you do? And that there's a first shot
• 23:42
  where one of them turns and it's actually in a bit of slow motion
• 23:45
  and it looks quite menacing. And see, Ron Jones can do
• 23:49
  something sometimes. And I love that.
• 23:52
  I love the characterisation of the Gravis, who's a bit of a
• 23:55
  fussy old woman really. It's like, oh, you're getting
• 23:59
  ahead of yourself, Doctor. And a waste.
• 24:04
  We've had the best of him. It's all very God if big.
• 24:07
  Finish. I'm looking for a gravis.
• 24:09
  They should call you immediately, but then.
• 24:11
  He's it can also be very sinister.
• 24:13
  You know the you. Will see.
• 24:16
  You will see it. It's really.
• 24:19
  It's very. Serious and I feel.
• 24:21
  Sorry for him when he calls flat on his face twice.
• 24:24
  The biggest? Issue I have with it.
• 24:27
  This is silly. But it's something I noticed on
• 24:29
  this watch is there is a line from Mr. Range in the first
• 24:32
  episode. This planet is without wood or
• 24:35
  any combustible materials, so where the hell do all the apples
• 24:38
  come from? There are ankles in so many
• 24:42
  scenes. And a.
• 24:44
  Pineapple at one point. That's such a doctor.
• 24:47
  Who fan rating? You're looking at the prompts?
• 24:49
  I'm just I. Was like, let's put scenes where
• 24:52
  people are picking up and I'm like, where'd they come from
• 24:55
  then if they've got no wood and. A.
• 24:56
  Pineapple, but that could have come from the TARDIS I guess.
• 24:59
  Imported. No, I don't think that's that's
• 25:02
  the case at the tail end of time and the.
• 25:04
  And the rats, Oh, love the rats. They look like they've just
• 25:07
  wandered out of a gay bar, don't they?
• 25:08
  With their moustaches and their leather caps.
• 25:10
  But what's not to love about that?
• 25:13
  But in trying. To keep with the the format, I
• 25:16
  have got three reasons why I want to keep it.
• 25:19
  I mean. The rats would have been enough
• 25:21
  for me. Well.
• 25:23
  I did think about doing the whole of defence based on that,
• 25:25
  but dress them. Up as like YMCA.
• 25:27
  You know my 3. Reasons for keeping it are the
• 25:29
  regulars. Christopher H Bidme writes them
• 25:32
  all three brilliantly. He knows the characters of the
• 25:34
  5th Doctor and Tegan, and he remembers that Turlo is actually
• 25:38
  an alien, something that I think only Peter Grimrade remembers as
• 25:43
  well, that the other writers seem to completely forget that
• 25:45
  part of him. Davison.
• 25:47
  Is actually sparkling from the off.
• 25:49
  The TARDIS stuff at the start really good.
• 25:52
  Turlo with his relish, reading about humanity's fate, and Tegan
• 25:57
  comes across so much more naturally than she sometimes
• 25:59
  does. When they get there, the doctor,
• 26:01
  he's right into the action, tending the wounded, throwing
• 26:05
  his coat to arrange Turlo shaking, the lamp being a bit
• 26:07
  disruptive, Tegan being cooperative.
• 26:11
  And this is what she's like at her best.
• 26:12
  She is feisty, but she's not bickering.
• 26:16
  So she is cooperating, but she's still holding her own against
• 26:19
  the other characters. Tegan and Turlo both get their
• 26:22
  own stuff to do. Both use their intelligence.
• 26:25
  They're curious about what's going on.
• 26:28
  Turlo's. Trauma I think is really well
• 26:30
  played. David already mentioned this and
• 26:32
  I will come back to it several times.
• 26:33
  Mark Strickson is one of the best things about this season.
• 26:37
  I think he is probably the most underrated actor to have played
• 26:41
  a companion in the whole of a classic series.
• 26:45
  I mean, Turlo's never. Well, Turlo might be someone's
• 26:47
  favorite companion, but generally speaking, he's not
• 26:50
  going to be because of the character.
• 26:52
  But Mark Strickson never gives less than 100% playing him, you
• 26:57
  know? In resurrection of the guard for
• 26:59
  that but. He's.
• 27:00
  Got nothing to do at all, and in every scene he's sort of
• 27:02
  shifting and looking over his shoulder, stealing the limelight
• 27:06
  from everyone that's talking Davidson.
• 27:07
  Looks great in his glasses. Oh, Oh yeah.
• 27:11
  And Turner, despite his breakdown, he gets that great
• 27:13
  character stuff. He knows what he's like, he
• 27:15
  knows he's the coward, yet he also knows he's the only one who
• 27:18
  can go down into the tunnels and sort this out.
• 27:21
  And I think it's brilliant. I just love it.
• 27:25
  The Doctor Tegan relationship is great and works so well in this
• 27:28
  series, if you ask me. Nobody did Tegan so shush.
• 27:32
  And the bit where he's pretending she's an Android and
• 27:35
  says the walk's not quite right. And then there's the accent and
• 27:38
  that look she gives him. It's just, it's brilliant stuff.
• 27:42
  Reason 2 is the atmosphere of it.
• 27:45
  There's a. Very season 18 feel to this
• 27:47
  story and well, it's not a coincidence, I guess that's it's
• 27:51
  written by Christopher HBD me the music by Paddy Kingsland.
• 27:55
  It's about a small community living around a crash spaceship
• 27:58
  and it's a sense of doom rather than nastiness, which is what
• 28:02
  pervades into some of the other stories of this season.
• 28:05
  So it's atmosphere rather than just bleak, nasty people saying
• 28:11
  nasty things, which I think is great.
• 28:13
  And Oh yeah, Paddy Kingston's music, I've already mentioned.
• 28:17
  I love that panpipe bit. And the other thing, the
• 28:37
  characterization of the Doctor is it's almost like you can
• 28:40
  imagine Tom Baker saying a lot of the lines that Peter Davidson
• 28:43
  is saying here. And I think that's important for
• 28:45
  Doctor. It doesn't, it shouldn't matter
• 28:47
  who's playing it. I know there are differences,
• 28:50
  but you should be able to think this is still the Doctor.
• 28:52
  And I can still hear, I can hear Tom Baker say, I can hear John,
• 28:55
  whoever it might be. So that comes through in some of
• 28:59
  the things that Davidson said, like no, I think you've been
• 29:03
  keeping us unnecessarily in the dark, Mr. Range.
• 29:05
  Absolutely hear Tom doing that bit.
• 29:09
  So I think it's got a great atmosphere and Season 18 was my
• 29:12
  first full season, so something that harks back to that.
• 29:16
  Really. Works for me.
• 29:18
  And thirdly, and I'll stop talking soon, sorry.
• 29:22
  No. Please don't.
• 29:23
  There's so many talking points here.
• 29:24
  I mean, I'll just keep wanting to jump in.
• 29:26
  I'm physically restraining myself right now, OK?
• 29:30
  My third bit. My 3rd.
• 29:32
  Bit Third Point is the TARDIS. Now, Christa H Bean loves doing
• 29:37
  things to the TARDIS. It started out as a little bit
• 29:40
  of jettisoning in Ligopolis before he's built up to its
• 29:44
  total destruction here. It may not come across these
• 29:47
  days, but back in 1984 JNT had ceded in the press.
• 29:51
  That. The idea of getting rid of the
• 29:53
  TARDIS, there were stories in the paper saying they're getting
• 29:56
  rid of the TARDIS. It's they're going to, it's
• 29:58
  going to have something else. It was actually possible at the
• 30:00
  time, yes. The reaction of the isn't.
• 30:07
  Perhaps. As devastated as you might
• 30:08
  think. But then they had other things
• 30:10
  on their mind at the time, so you can be forgiven, and they
• 30:12
  do. They do.
• 30:14
  Remember it Tegan has to stop herself when you know, if we can
• 30:20
  just get to that. And then it's Oh yes.
• 30:22
  But then we go on to that image, the images of the Tardis
• 30:25
  Brandals in the rocks is one of those images from my childhood
• 30:29
  that sticks with me to today. It, it was, it was amazing when,
• 30:34
  you know, when she stumbled in and there's those round and it's
• 30:36
  like, yes. There it is.
• 30:37
  And then you go into the console room and it's all, all the rocks
• 30:40
  are there and the gravis comes in.
• 30:42
  Those images are the ones that have stuck with me ever since.
• 30:47
  And I love the bit where the Doctor manipulates the gravis
• 30:50
  into into doing what he wants to pull the TARDIS together.
• 30:54
  Love it. Keep it please.
• 30:56
  Well, I'm salt. Joe, do you want to kick off the
• 31:01
  listener comments? Yes.
• 31:02
  Kieran Evans says dark and atmospheric with great writing
• 31:06
  for Davison's Doctor. Some limitations due to monster
• 31:09
  costumes, but the lighting is wonderful.
• 31:12
  Timarcha. Says Peter Davidson is at his
• 31:14
  best here. Bidmead really understands his
• 31:16
  characters. Bidmead really understands his
• 31:19
  character. The guest cast are all brilliant
• 31:21
  too. Mark Strickson choose the
• 31:22
  scenery, but at least he got something to do for once.
• 31:25
  Garrett Boundley. This feels like a timeless
• 31:27
  classic. The sets and lighting are great.
• 31:30
  The conceit of being beyond Time Lord Reach and TARDIS
• 31:33
  destruction. No, no massive story art crack
• 31:37
  here. Give the situation a good feel
• 31:39
  of jeopardy. Edward.
• 31:41
  Cook, Reese. OK story enjoyable enough but
• 31:44
  the score is annoying. Edward No no, there's not enough
• 31:49
  pan pipes in Doctor Who, Luke Sims Jenkins says.
• 31:53
  A fucking classic. This has been one of my go to
• 31:56
  stories since I was 10. Smart with amazing ideas, beat
• 32:00
  mid road 3 bangers and this was his best.
• 32:03
  James HB says part of me likes it, but it's got too many bad
• 32:07
  choices and bits that just don't fit.
• 32:09
  Leslie Dunlop should have replaced Tegan and the
• 32:11
  tunnelling machine is a big disappointment.
• 32:14
  Bin the keep the novel. Daniel Knight The best story of
• 32:18
  the season. A good traditional monster tale
• 32:20
  if you overlook the Tractator's flappy arms and some less
• 32:23
  effective design elements. Big meets take on the Doctor is
• 32:26
  superb. Davidson gives his best
• 32:28
  performance making you wish. Making.
• 32:31
  You wish both stayed on longer than each did the.
• 32:35
  Flappy. Arms.
• 32:36
  Strange grammar going on in that sentence there, Daniel.
• 32:39
  When the Gravis is pulling back the TARDIS together, which is a
• 32:42
  really great scene, is let down by the Gravis's tiny little arms
• 32:46
  waving around. It kind of just ruins the moment
• 32:48
  a little bit. Michael Storm.
• 32:51
  Highlight of the season for me. Bidme proves he is one of the
• 32:53
  few writers to really understand the 5th Doctor.
• 32:56
  Strickson gives a great performance as his race memory
• 32:58
  emerges. The Tractators are an
• 33:00
  interesting idea. The episode 3 cliffhanger is
• 33:03
  Ghoulish Keep. Paul Dunn says Bidmead's
• 33:07
  greatest contribute Huge love for Frontiers here.
• 33:10
  Dark, bleak, superbly cast. Doesn't suffer from being in the
• 33:13
  studio, only some great moments like Rivera being attached to
• 33:17
  the digging machine, the earth swallowing people.
• 33:20
  I absolutely love it. There's a lot of Frontiers love,
• 33:25
  Jay Shari says. Frontiers succeeds despite its
• 33:28
  Studio Brown nature, and there's a genuine sense of desperation
• 33:31
  in this failing colony. Crisp bid means welcome return
• 33:34
  means better characters. Crisp bid means welcome return
• 33:37
  means better characterization for the Doctor, which Davison
• 33:39
  eagerly responds to, as well as actual things for Teigen and
• 33:42
  Tyler to do. For once, the Tractators are an
• 33:45
  EV threat, Hanford by their two stiff costumes, and the
• 33:48
  novelization shows us what the excavation machine was meant to
• 33:51
  be, an assembly of rotten colonist corpses, easily
• 33:55
  overlooked. Frontios deserves more love.
• 33:57
  Keep it. Gorgeous Lucy McCall says
• 34:01
  Frontiers has, in my opinion, good world building, good
• 34:05
  supporting characters and creepy effects.
• 34:07
  The getting pulled into the ground is really disturbing.
• 34:10
  The track latest may not be very mobile but they are still yucky
• 34:14
  and the Gravis is defeated with guile rather than force.
• 34:17
  Keep it. Melvin Pena Frontiers is one of
• 34:21
  my very favorite classic stories.
• 34:23
  Only those who have been isolated for a millennia can
• 34:26
  truly appreciate the power of mobility.
• 34:28
  You can't hit on the Gravis for yearning to breathe.
• 34:30
  Three and one of Mark Strickson's best performances
• 34:33
  frothing at the mouth with Ferrell rage.
• 34:35
  It's just going to. Be one of those rarest of things
• 34:37
  where all of the listener comments are positive.
• 34:40
  It's very, very rare, Gareth says.
• 34:43
  Frontier says. Marvellous, atmospheric, creepy.
• 34:46
  Davidson's great in it, a highlight.
• 34:48
  I'm so sorry you got the next one.
• 34:50
  David or Jack Koya. He always sends me an essay.
• 34:54
  Jack Coyer says starting really strong.
• 34:57
  Then I think it starts to tail off a little towards the end
• 34:59
  there. We go.
• 35:00
  There we go. Most performances in this are
• 35:02
  great, and the guest characters populated in this world are well
• 35:04
  drawn and richly characterized. Norner and Range are
• 35:07
  sympathetic, normal people. Brazen has great moments of
• 35:10
  cruelty, yet his redemption feels somewhat burned.
• 35:12
  Plantagenet is an excellent character out of his depth and
• 35:15
  feels like a parody of the typical Saywood character, with
• 35:18
  deliberately pretentious Shakespearean monologues.
• 35:20
  Maybe Strixon and Davidson's best performances at least.
• 35:24
  At the very least, this is how I want the 5th Doctor internal to
• 35:27
  be. Where it falls down is largely
• 35:29
  with the Tractators and the Gravis.
• 35:31
  The costumes look nice when stationary but lose a lot when
• 35:34
  they're moving or speaking and their plan confuses me.
• 35:37
  But also a comment here. Dave Flint's The Target book
• 35:40
  cover terrified me as a little, and the story can't achieve its
• 35:43
  level of horror, but it's still one of Davidson's best.
• 35:46
  Turlo gets well used and some actual horror in there at
• 35:49
  Tegan's Express. Oh sorry, some actual humor in
• 35:52
  there at Tegan's experience. Maybe it should have been
• 35:54
  horror. Best of Bid meets by far.
• 35:57
  Keep it and cherish it. And finally, Jason Thompson.
• 36:00
  And here it is, a little bit different.
• 36:02
  Here it is. Frontier just never worked for
• 36:05
  me. I read the target novelization
• 36:07
  and found it decent enough, but the story as seen fails every
• 36:10
  time I watch it. Primarily this is because the
• 36:12
  resolution comes from Taylor remembering the secret of the
• 36:15
  Tractators, rather than anyone actually figuring out how to
• 36:18
  defeat them through any kind of deduction of their weakness.
• 36:21
  Every time the Gravis falls on his face it's unintendedly
• 36:24
  hilarious and I can't help laughing.
• 36:27
  Davison is absolutely 100% on fire though.
• 36:30
  His best performance bar none. Don't you love a bit where it
• 36:33
  just conks on the console? That's just wonderful.
• 36:37
  It's one of those ways, like if you had a bit more time, just
• 36:39
  another goal. Just try it one more time.
• 36:41
  All right, Stephen fronting us well.
• 36:46
  It has to be key, and for a number of reasons.
• 36:49
  I think my great question around the what ifs of 80s who is what
• 36:53
  if Christopher HB had stayed on a script editor of Doctor Who
• 36:58
  and in in particular for the entirety of of Davidson's reign.
• 37:02
  We have evidence in season 18 how he would construct a season
• 37:07
  and you know, quite innovatively for the time in terms of
• 37:10
  storylines that sort of tie up together in an arc or a theme
• 37:14
  that recurs through it. Obviously that's entropy.
• 37:17
  In season 19, we have the very sort of glimpse of the beginning
• 37:21
  of what the 5th Doctor could have been under bid made and
• 37:24
  there's this sort of sense of renewal and resurgence for
• 37:27
  Renaissance. And I think perhaps that's how
• 37:29
  season 19 could have sort of moved up in terms of trajectory.
• 37:33
  Steve. What we have?
• 37:35
  Didn't bid me. Book Bailey for Kinder.
• 37:37
  I think he did I. Think he did so it would have
• 37:40
  been. Stories like that, yeah.
• 37:43
  Absolutely. The more lyrical kind, I think,
• 37:45
  which you know, we definitely do get throughout the Davison era,
• 37:48
  but they're obviously counterpointed by the the much
• 37:51
  more grim, dark and and gum kind of stories.
• 37:53
  And we'll talk about that later, I'm sure.
• 37:56
  But here we have that sort of rarity of a showrunner writing
• 38:00
  for Doctor Who that isn't a landmark story.
• 38:03
  It's not the regeneration story, it's not bringing back the
• 38:07
  Daleks or anything like that. It's almost as though, you know,
• 38:09
  Moffat doing the beast below, for instance, which I love, by
• 38:12
  the way. It's a story in media stress
• 38:14
  like in throughout the Doctors run, we get an example of what
• 38:18
  this showrunner could have done with it.
• 38:20
  And it is wonderful. I, I was just noddling along
• 38:23
  with what everything that Paul was saying and what so many of
• 38:26
  of the the, the contributors were just saying then over
• 38:29
  Twitter as well. And I can't disagree with any of
• 38:32
  it if I, if we look into, you know, the character of the
• 38:39
  Doctor. And people have said this as
• 38:41
  well, so I don't want to sort of go through it line by line
• 38:43
  again, but this is probably Davison's best performance as
• 38:47
  the Doctor. He's proactive, driving the
• 38:50
  narrative to its conclusion. He tricks the villain by
• 38:52
  exploiting his own failings. But moreover, he acts like the
• 38:56
  Doctor. He's funny and he's caring, and
• 38:57
  he's actually a total smart ass as well.
• 38:59
  He doesn't shrink from Plantagenet and from Brazen.
• 39:02
  He works collaboratively with Mr. Range and Nordam.
• 39:05
  He holds court with the Gravis and then at the end downplays
• 39:09
  his involvement, not through false modesty, but by quietly
• 39:12
  but defiantly thumbing his nose against the Time Lords.
• 39:15
  This is the Doctor and and Davison rises to all of it.
• 39:20
  It is absolutely just further evidence of, you know, the
• 39:24
  greatness of the actor and particularly, I guess, in terms
• 39:28
  of classic, who could well be the best actor to have played
• 39:31
  the Doctor during, you know, that that classic run of 63 to
• 39:33
  to 89. And and that's that's sort of
• 39:38
  set against that sort of big median science, I think, which
• 39:42
  is really interesting here. Science isn't boring.
• 39:44
  I think the sort of provides the basis for the threat twice over.
• 39:49
  First instance, there's the aerial bombardment from the
• 39:51
  medios and you're thinking, oh, there's aliens out there that
• 39:53
  are looking to invade frontiers. But aha, trick you.
• 39:56
  The actual threat comes from underneath and the ground is the
• 39:59
  gravitational, you know, giant wood louse.
• 40:02
  I think that's just a great narrative subversion or or
• 40:05
  twist, I think, and again, just sort of further evidence of the
• 40:08
  kind of craft that that bid me could have brought to to the
• 40:12
  series if he was if he was the script editor.
• 40:14
  I also think that there's a, there's a sort of more developed
• 40:19
  social commentary around what maybe the politics and maybe
• 40:22
  even the misery of life would look like on a failing human
• 40:24
  colony in the future. Especially when it's leaders try
• 40:28
  to control the population by trying to control the narrative
• 40:31
  and leading, you know, it's away from them, away from the truth
• 40:35
  out of fear of losing their control.
• 40:36
  I think that's super interesting and maybe even timely.
• 40:39
  It's almost. A shame there has to be a Doctor
• 40:41
  Who story because that side of it's so interesting, but really
• 40:45
  there's only space for about 10-15 minutes of explanation.
• 40:48
  Exploration, yeah. Yeah, of the.
• 40:50
  Colony failing of you, right? How they're sort sort of using
• 40:54
  propaganda to keep people in mind on all of that.
• 40:58
  It is actually more in the book. There's a there's a lot more of
• 41:01
  that in the book and there's a time to explore it.
• 41:03
  But unfortunately we've got to get the TARDIS back.
• 41:05
  There's got to be an alien threat.
• 41:07
  We've got to solve all of that. So we just have to push the
• 41:10
  colony to one side, no? No, this is true.
• 41:13
  Yeah, but it is there and that commentary is there, which is
• 41:15
  super interesting because I think if we're talking about the
• 41:18
  three planets trilogy of the Christopher HPD mid cycle, you
• 41:21
  know, we go from physics and mathematics in the first one
• 41:25
  with obviously Lagopolis. There's an examination of
• 41:28
  philosophy and existentialism in Castrovalva and here it's almost
• 41:32
  like a sociological, you know, examination of progress and, and
• 41:36
  what that might mean in the far future.
• 41:39
  And I think that's super interesting that bid made sort
• 41:41
  of has that breadth and depth of of of interest, I guess that he
• 41:45
  brings to his Doctor Who stories.
• 41:47
  And obviously, you know, I've said in the past, I'm a massive
• 41:49
  Christopher H Bid made fan. I even got to interview him a
• 41:52
  few years back for the new to who podcast that we used to do
• 41:55
  with Dan and Cole. So no, of course this is going
• 41:59
  through this is this is one of the triumphs and the high points
• 42:01
  of Season 21 for me. Great, Joe.
• 42:06
  It's almost a bit of a shame actually that he's as good as he
• 42:08
  is bid made because he's a total prick really.
• 42:11
  And he like you listen to him. What an arrogant man.
• 42:14
  Did you ever hear him on that commentary where at the end of
• 42:16
  the commentary he goes, you know, well, well done to Tom,
• 42:19
  Well done to the script writers. And yeah, well done to me as
• 42:23
  well. Well done me.
• 42:24
  You know, I'm like, good God, will you get over your
• 42:27
  unfortunately write scripts like this?
• 42:29
  And it's really bloody good. Yeah.
• 42:34
  But here we are. I just want to talk about the
• 42:37
  production quickly because I think some of the lighting in
• 42:41
  this Ron Jones is learning how to make Doctor Who slow.
• 42:44
  But sure, he started off with a like a madly ambitious script in
• 42:48
  Time Flight, and I think this plays more to his strengths.
• 42:52
  There's a wonderful bit where they're all going down this
• 42:55
  ladder down underground and shot from where the ladder is.
• 43:01
  The lighting is really harsh and really atmospheric and unlike
• 43:06
  anything else really in 80s Doctor Who I So I think he's
• 43:10
  he's doing something really interesting with the lighting,
• 43:11
  but he puts in those really gorgeous glass shots as well.
• 43:15
  The one of the ship with all the girders showing all the damage
• 43:18
  is amazingly good. And you know, they're just
• 43:22
  there, aren't they, in the corner of the screen?
• 43:23
  That's where the studio sort of blended in really clever a
• 43:27
  camera like Paul said, that looks up and looks down.
• 43:30
  There's many stories where we don't even do that and that's
• 43:34
  quite refreshing. We see the ceiling, we see the
• 43:36
  floor, detailed and imaginative sets.
• 43:39
  I think the sets for the quarry outside are really interesting,
• 43:45
  but just all of the sets I think are great, especially the TARDIS
• 43:49
  with all the all the stone put into it.
• 43:52
  That could be so pony that idea. And yet I'm totally sold on it.
• 43:57
  I'm really sold that the TARDIS has somehow embedded itself into
• 44:00
  this planet, and it is a unique and unusual score as well.
• 44:05
  So I think on a production level there are issues.
• 44:08
  The Tractators look absurd and the Gravis has a nose.
• 44:11
  I mean, it's just ridiculous. But I think as a whole, they're
• 44:15
  really pushing it. You know, they're pushing what
• 44:17
  they can do. And I think Ron Jones is
• 44:19
  absolutely getting better. I don't think it's his best.
• 44:22
  I think his best is Mind Warp when he gets there, but he's on
• 44:25
  his way. You guys have all talked about
• 44:29
  the world building here, so I won't go into too much detail
• 44:31
  there. But yeah, the fact that you get
• 44:33
  to see behind the scenes with the colony, I love the deaths.
• 44:36
  Unaccountable and that little subplot that goes on that
• 44:39
  Teegan's investigating. That's really interesting.
• 44:44
  Nona and her dad, that's a really interesting subplot as
• 44:47
  well, that we're actually seeing a family in this colony and how
• 44:50
  they're affected. There's just lots he he adds
• 44:53
  loads of it. He didn't look obvious.
• 44:54
  He does it in Castro Velva, but I think this is his best example
• 44:59
  of creating a setting and adding lots of substance to it.
• 45:03
  I totally buy into the setting that we're seeing here.
• 45:08
  And fuck me, where was this Teigen throughout the entire
• 45:11
  run? I mean, I'm not the biggest
• 45:12
  Teigen Jojanka fan, but Tegan Jojanka has written by
• 45:15
  Christopher H bid me. She was amazingly good in Castro
• 45:18
  Balva. She's terrific in this.
• 45:20
  I think you say Paul. She's she's just really
• 45:23
  competent and getting involved and doing the right thing
• 45:26
  instead of pushing against everything all the time.
• 45:29
  How can I think of it? What can I do, you know?
• 45:32
  So great. And yeah, and also hilarious as
• 45:34
  well. One of the things Big Finish get
• 45:36
  right with Heegan is they just make her funny all the time.
• 45:39
  Janet Fielding is a natural comedian, and you give her funny
• 45:42
  things to do. So when she's standing there
• 45:43
  blazing eyed and the doctor's giving a review of her as an
• 45:47
  Android, it's absolutely hilarious.
• 45:49
  And we could have had more of that as well.
• 45:52
  And Mark Striction, fuck me, he's so happy to have something
• 45:55
  to do. He's just gone through the
• 45:56
  indignity of being banged up in in the Awakening and just
• 45:59
  running around that setting. Boris of the Deep, it's like,
• 46:02
  bloody hell, they've remembered me.
• 46:03
  Hurrah spits flying everywhere. His eyes are crazy.
• 46:07
  You know, he's having the best time in the world.
• 46:09
  But the reason why this is go for, I think this is Peter
• 46:12
  Davison's best performance of his entire run.
• 46:15
  I think he's very comfortable with this script.
• 46:17
  He's sort of got hold of this and got, my God, I'm commanding,
• 46:20
  I'm passionate, I'm clever. And he just throws himself into
• 46:24
  it. The bit that all I always
• 46:26
  remember is the when he runs in and goes, yeah, RIP those wires
• 46:30
  down and Tegan goes, I've just put them up.
• 46:32
  He goes, well, jolly good, now you can take them down again.
• 46:35
  You know, it's very different to how he was written in 19.
• 46:39
  In 19, he, he had this sort of squeaky voice, petulance.
• 46:43
  Whereas here he's he is as rude as at times, but sort of
• 46:48
  commanding and a bit witty with it as well.
• 46:52
  I think he's wonderful in this. If this is how Davidson had
• 46:55
  begun under Bidme's hand, I think we would have had a truly
• 47:01
  incredible doctor. I think he's a bit of a swing
• 47:03
  and Miss Davisons Dr. for because of say we're devil
• 47:07
  honest, but I think he'd been made, had taken hold of him.
• 47:10
  It would have been incredible. Please can we put Frontiers
• 47:13
  through? I think it's the best story of
• 47:15
  the season well with. Two votes.
• 47:17
  It's definitely going through. Yay.
• 47:20
  This. Was one of the ones I was on the
• 47:22
  fence with because there's a lot that I like, but there's just
• 47:26
  certain bits that I wasn't so sure about.
• 47:30
  I think it's really atmospheric. It is what probably 1 of Ron
• 47:33
  Jones's best at times. There's some great direction.
• 47:37
  There's also some really bad direction.
• 47:39
  I think there's the scene where they attack the tractators in
• 47:43
  Part 4 is done in long shot. And then there's a whole
• 47:46
  business with the excavation machine where Mr. Brazen gets
• 47:50
  trapped in it. And it's like you could have
• 47:52
  easily pulled him away. But the script tells that you
• 47:54
  don't have to. And it's, it's all done in a
• 47:55
  single shot and a single take. And it's like.
• 47:57
  It's so funny, isn't it? They're trying to pull him off,
• 47:59
  but really he's trying to get in it like it's quick, get those
• 48:02
  things on me. But I I can't disagree with what
• 48:07
  you've all said and what everybody else has been saying.
• 48:09
  This is Davidson's best performance.
• 48:12
  He's clearly read the script and he's like, this is something I
• 48:14
  can get my teeth into. This isn't just passive or wet
• 48:17
  or naive. Not going on, not knowing what's
• 48:20
  going on with Turlo, he's spent most of season 20 doing.
• 48:23
  This is something where he gets to being dignity, he gets to be
• 48:26
  funny, and he's clearly running with it.
• 48:30
  There is a bit of this odd padding.
• 48:32
  There's a whole extended sequence in Part 1 about
• 48:35
  retrieving a battery and I was watching that going OK, so it so
• 48:40
  they can notice the block and tackle and they can, but it's
• 48:42
  like there's this really long sequence about finding a
• 48:45
  battery. It's like you're not meant to
• 48:46
  have your padding in Part 1. You're meant to have that around
• 48:49
  Part 3, which is the most Part 3 episode I've ever seen where
• 48:53
  you've got a lot of the Doctrine Teiga just wandering around
• 48:55
  tunnels and hiding, wandering around some more tunnels and
• 48:58
  hiding. It all kind of comes together in
• 49:01
  Part 4 though, where they actually start doing stuff with
• 49:03
  the plot, the story, the TARDIS and the rocks is a great image
• 49:07
  and it's just, and some really unsettling moments as well when
• 49:10
  the bodies are getting dragged through the Earth.
• 49:12
  That's really nicely done. There's lots to be positive
• 49:14
  about. I think Bid Me does.
• 49:17
  It's a great script from Bid Me. Except it's not as I think he's
• 49:21
  thought of some jokes that he's sitting there with his word
• 49:23
  processor congratulating himself on how funny he is.
• 49:26
  The TARDIS is, is it as an offensive weapon?
• 49:29
  It's about as effective as a chicken volleyball.
• 49:31
  And you're going, you're, you're really pleased with that line,
• 49:33
  aren't you? You're well done.
• 49:34
  Well done there. But, and there's a couple of
• 49:39
  other points where clearly he's written something that he thinks
• 49:41
  is hilarious and it's like, not so sure.
• 49:45
  But on the whole, as I said, this is where I was on the
• 49:47
  fence, but listening to the comments and all the positive
• 49:52
  stuff on it doesn't matter. My vote doesn't count anywhere
• 49:54
  because it's going through, but it's a keep for me as well.
• 49:56
  This is definitely going through.
• 49:58
  So Frontier. Frontier.
• 50:00
  Goes through. Not a.
• 50:02
  Word to the Time Lords, folks, Not a word.
• 50:05
  To the Time Lords. I still can't believe they gave
• 50:08
  him a nose though. Every time I see it, I laugh.
• 50:12
  How do we differentiate this tractator from all the others?
• 50:15
  He's I don't. We'll give him a little nose.
• 50:19
  Just don't. Look at the don't look at the
• 50:20
  feet, don't look at it when they move, because just aim the
• 50:23
  camera on. Just aim the camera a little bit
• 50:25
  higher. It would have been fine.
• 50:26
  You know I've. Seen a conceptual design that
• 50:29
  somebody did of the tractators, just as a picture of how they
• 50:34
  could have looked if, you know, they were being put together.
• 50:36
  My God, as it looked enticing, you know.
• 50:41
  Oh well, we'll take flappy risks, that was.
• 50:43
  That was the idea of them, wasn't it, that they should be
• 50:44
  able to curl around their victims and but then they got in
• 50:47
  the costume and they were as rigid as.
• 50:51
  As that they. Couldn't even move all right.
• 50:54
  Let's move on. Second story, Stephen, your
• 50:56
  choice, OK. Well, just to prove that I am
• 50:59
  not entirely sycophantic to the 5th Doctor era, I would like to
• 51:03
  condemn Warriors of the Deep, please.
• 51:06
  Stephen. Please don't throw your whole
• 51:08
  career away. Gosh, so this is around about
• 51:14
  the time that Davidson announces to J&T that he will leave the
• 51:17
  show, and can you blame him? This is also the serial that
• 51:21
  supposedly Michael Grade saw and decided, Yep, I'm definitely
• 51:25
  going to cancel Doctor Who. And I think this is also the
• 51:28
  story that I think for me really sort of is, is a real nadir of
• 51:35
  not just the entire season, but the entire Davidson Reign era.
• 51:40
  I think where to start? Goodness me.
• 51:45
  Well, if we're going to start, if we're going to go for three
• 51:48
  reasons, I think fundamentally you've got to look at the
• 51:50
  script. It's an absolute nightmare.
• 51:53
  It, it takes the Silurians and the Sea Devils, which
• 51:58
  particularly Silurians, I think has a great deal to say that is
• 52:02
  of merit and is of interest and has a human heart to it.
• 52:06
  And sort of humanizers, if you like, you know, monsters in
• 52:10
  Doctor Who, giving them a back story and a rationale for, for
• 52:16
  what they're doing. That is entirely defensible.
• 52:18
  And, and even some may say, right, they were there first.
• 52:21
  But I think what it does is to sort of take the iconography of,
• 52:24
  of that story and skip straight through to the end, which is
• 52:27
  when the Brigadier blows them all up.
• 52:28
  And that's kind of what this story is looking to do here.
• 52:31
  It brings them back, reanimates their corpses, brings in the sea
• 52:35
  devils, just a good measure. And then at the end of it has
• 52:37
  the Doctor gassed them as and and basically commits genocide.
• 52:42
  And I just don't know how this fits into the ethos of Doctor
• 52:46
  Who, how this fits into a story that is meant to have the doctor
• 52:50
  acting as a hero. You know, he sees it says says
• 52:53
  at the end, there should have been another way.
• 52:55
  Well, OK then yes, I agree there should have been another way,
• 52:58
  but. Yeah.
• 53:00
  Find it because ultimately the Doctor works to kill this the
• 53:04
  the Silurians and it's maybe topped.
• 53:08
  Only. By Turlo shooting another Siluru
• 53:11
  and I think it is the lead is it I forget the names honestly,
• 53:14
  they're so forgettable, but through the chest and it's just
• 53:18
  one of the most pointless and needless deaths in all of Doctor
• 53:22
  Who. I think certainly in this
• 53:23
  season. Just watching it through, I
• 53:25
  thought, Oh, my goodness, I was shocked how much it angered me.
• 53:30
  I think because, you know, in a season where there's lots of
• 53:33
  massacres and lots of sort of deaths that are sort of driven
• 53:36
  by Saywood's bloodlust, that one's probably the most needless
• 53:40
  of them all, I think. But yeah, I, I just don't think
• 53:43
  the Doctor acts like the doctor. And instead, I think Saywoods
• 53:48
  have got a lot to blame for this.
• 53:50
  He, he wants to have his cake and eat it, too.
• 53:52
  He has the doctor ultimately be ineffectual and a lost part in
• 53:58
  this narrative. And then at the end of it, it
• 54:01
  gives him that terrible line of there should have been another
• 54:03
  way. Well, yeah, there should have
• 54:04
  been Eric. There should have been a job.
• 54:05
  That job was on you, you know. Steve when when the
• 54:10
  discontinuity card came out and they they were praising this
• 54:13
  story for when Davison hands over the gun, yeah.
• 54:17
  And saying, Oh my God, the pacifist Dr. you know, hands
• 54:20
  over a gun. But literally the first person
• 54:23
  he meets in this story, he's in a punch up with that person in
• 54:26
  about 5 seconds. Yeah, yeah, exactly my ass.
• 54:34
  And I know that a lot of it is driven by the context, right?
• 54:37
  So this is January 1984. Later on that year, we have Two
• 54:44
  Tribes by Frankie Goes to Hollywood, which is, you know,
• 54:46
  one of the sort of great pop songs of the year, but sort of
• 54:49
  points to an almost pervasive obsession with mutually assured
• 54:53
  destruction under the threat of nuclear Armageddon.
• 54:56
  And I think that sort of is very much at play here in the story
• 54:59
  as well. About the time that this would
• 55:03
  have been in production in the summer of 1983, War Games
• 55:07
  starring Matthew Broderick comes out.
• 55:10
  And the sort of moral of the story there, if you can remember
• 55:14
  the the final sort of scene is that the computer sort of
• 55:18
  realises that the win there is no winner.
• 55:20
  The only winning move is not to play.
• 55:23
  And I think all of that sort of super interesting, but none of
• 55:25
  it actually comes out, you know, is meaningfully examined.
• 55:29
  It's just a bit of a backdrop in which we sort of bring back, as
• 55:32
  I say, the reanimated corpse of Silurians and sea devils and
• 55:35
  blow them, blow them up, but gas them at the end of it for no
• 55:38
  real good reason. I think also I mean it's it's a
• 55:44
  really sort of low hanging fruit here, but this is probably the
• 55:47
  worst production certainly of the season, possibly the worst
• 55:51
  production since time flight just in terms of how it looks on
• 55:54
  the screen so dilemma. Oh well that's coming up later,
• 55:59
  isn't it but yeah, it's it's that's a good point.
• 56:02
  No, it's probably not quite as bad as that yeah on par.
• 56:06
  I would say it it look, the set doesn't look too bad, but I
• 56:10
  think the problem is that when you start bringing in, I think
• 56:14
  it's halfway through episode 2, the Merka and the and the sea
• 56:16
  Devils. That's kind of where you've got
• 56:18
  to kill the lights and bring on some, you know, red atmospheric
• 56:21
  emergency lighting just to bloody hide the things.
• 56:24
  Because the sea devils from the Silurians don't look too bad
• 56:27
  when they're in their own ship because it's, you know, that
• 56:29
  sort of dark greenish tinge to the lighting.
• 56:32
  But as soon as you have them exposed in that bright light,
• 56:36
  you know, sterile corridors of of the of sea base four, it
• 56:40
  really does look shoddy. And I think that was, you know,
• 56:43
  just a really simple trick that they could have pulled at the
• 56:46
  time. And I'm not even going to speak
• 56:49
  about the mocha because it's just so terrible.
• 56:51
  It's just so self evidently awful.
• 56:55
  Yeah. So I I.
• 56:56
  I just don't see how this works as a competent piece of
• 56:59
  television. We we can't put this one through
• 57:03
  gents. I think this is this is the
• 57:04
  worst of the the season and I think in terms of what it
• 57:08
  represents as a the beginning of the death knell, I guess for
• 57:13
  Doctor Who in the in the 80s, it's probably rightly reviled by
• 57:18
  fans and non fans alike. You have.
• 57:22
  Said you've heard strictly come hamster before, right?
• 57:25
  Can't put this through you say if.
• 57:28
  This. Wins.
• 57:34
  Should we see what our. Listeners had to say do.
• 57:37
  You want me to stop, you can stop.
• 57:39
  Gareth says Warriors of the Deep is a bad production, top to
• 57:43
  bottom. Maybe it would be better if they
• 57:45
  started over, but ultimately saloon stories tend to be the
• 57:48
  same thing again anyway. But at least it gave us
• 57:51
  excellence. Give us.
• 57:54
  Daniel Knight says better than its reputation thanks to a good
• 57:57
  strip. Better than its reputation
• 57:59
  thanks to a good script. But Pennant Roberts direction is
• 58:01
  as slow as the Silurian and Sea Devil, and the redesigns aren't
• 58:05
  a patch on the originals. Let's ignore the Merka.
• 58:08
  The regulars are on good form, but some of the guests aren't.
• 58:10
  Cough Ingrid Pitt cough. Oh.
• 58:13
  She is one of the best things about this.
• 58:15
  What are you talking about, Daniel?
• 58:17
  Honestly the the most obvious villain we've ever had.
• 58:21
  James Hadwin Bennett the most 80s Doctor Who.
• 58:24
  Oh, I knew he was going to like this.
• 58:25
  He's so he's so contrary. The most 80s Doctor Who story,
• 58:29
  East versus West, China pulling the strings to go to war and a
• 58:33
  killer that's lethal to touch. People who complain about the
• 58:36
  bright sets missed the point. It predilects, sorry.
• 58:39
  It predicts Neuralink and presumably a leader who insists
• 58:44
  on bad makeup keep. Dave Flint says obviously the
• 58:48
  over lighting is an issue but it's problems room deeper.
• 58:50
  Swap in some other shock troop style threat like Sontarans and
• 58:54
  it could work as the Silurians and Sea Devils are mishandled
• 58:56
  more than in the modern era. 3 bins out of three for Johnny
• 59:00
  Bird for me. Paul Dunn has nothing wrong with
• 59:03
  it that turning the lights down and the better production
• 59:05
  wouldn't solve. Story itself isn't bad.
• 59:08
  Suffers from Pennant Roberts usual half assed uninspired
• 59:11
  direction. That said, it's good fun.
• 59:14
  Jay Shaury says Warriors of the Deep, an all right script hangs
• 59:17
  strung by being rushed into production with little to no
• 59:20
  preparation rehearsal, and it really shows in the monsters
• 59:23
  untucked Silurians with visible zips, sea devils with lopsided
• 59:27
  heads, and Oh dear, the merka. The lighting isn't always as
• 59:31
  supermarket bright as I remembered, and Pennant Roberts
• 59:34
  direction of an action story turns out as naff as you'd
• 59:37
  expect it to be. Like the doctor says after
• 59:40
  unleashing Chekhov's hexachromite gas, that should
• 59:43
  have been another way bin it. This is as smart as I'm going to
• 59:47
  sound today, all right? Jack, Koya says.
• 59:49
  Anything that can be gained from this script and concept gets
• 59:53
  drowned out by lacklustre direction and grungy say, with
• 59:56
  dialogue. Some war dialogue.
• 59:58
  Nevermind. The Doctor in particular gets
• 1:00:00
  some. The Doctor in particular gets
• 1:00:03
  some hard man, Bond quips that don't quite gel with his
• 1:00:05
  character stuff. And the character sorry.
• 1:00:08
  And the character stuff with Maddox gets forgotten about
• 1:00:10
  pretty quickly. The scene where the mercury
• 1:00:13
  invades the bass is infamously embarrassing, and I think we
• 1:00:16
  have an atmospheric submarine lighting without brightly lit
• 1:00:19
  studio blandness. You could say there should have
• 1:00:22
  been another way, Melvin. Pena says people hate on
• 1:00:26
  Warriors of the Deep, but imagining a season opening story
• 1:00:28
  in the modern era with a dark with an ending as dark as there
• 1:00:32
  should have been another way that final line in Davison's
• 1:00:35
  exasperated grief in the delivery is worth all the bad
• 1:00:38
  lighting and questionable drowning cliffhanger.
• 1:00:41
  No it's not. One line does not excuse the
• 1:00:44
  previous 90 minutes, Kieran Evans says.
• 1:00:48
  I find it dull, slow and not in an engaging way and the shout
• 1:00:52
  out seems are as boring as anything.
• 1:00:54
  Making the third eye on the Siluras act like an indicator
• 1:00:57
  light sums up this era for me. Edward Cook Reese It's greatest
• 1:01:02
  woe is that it's not it's greatest woe is that it's not as
• 1:01:06
  exciting as it could be. Slow direction and overlit my.
• 1:01:10
  Nemesis Michael Storm. It has all the elements to be a
• 1:01:13
  good story with the East West conflict being a parallel to the
• 1:01:16
  Silurian conflict. However, something goes wrong en
• 1:01:19
  route, probably say with RE Whites, meaning that we get a
• 1:01:22
  clunky script reducing the Silurus to generic monsters.
• 1:01:26
  The hell is going on with the performances?
• 1:01:28
  Even the usually reliable Tom Adams seems off.
• 1:01:32
  Oh God, do I have to say this? Kudos to Pennant for increasing
• 1:01:36
  the female quota. Oh OK, fair, but that guy cannot
• 1:01:40
  direct actions to save his life. And Oh dear, the Merka being
• 1:01:44
  there. I keep saying.
• 1:01:45
  Oh dear, the Merka. John Arnold says worries the
• 1:01:48
  Deep just about works thanks to what's probably the finest lead
• 1:01:51
  performance in the show's history.
• 1:01:53
  Davison delivers a master class, selling a ropey script and
• 1:01:56
  giving his fellow actors something to bounce off while
• 1:01:59
  production totally fails totally falls to bits around him and.
• 1:02:03
  Fails Lucy Mccool. I like Warriors of the Deep.
• 1:02:07
  I like you Lucy. The human bodies are nasty.
• 1:02:11
  The doctor gets angry with humans for still using forbidden
• 1:02:14
  substances, which he is then forced to use himself.
• 1:02:17
  Forced and makes it worse. I even like the Murka.
• 1:02:23
  Oh, I love you, Lucy. Also, props are due to Pennant
• 1:02:26
  Roberts for insisting that more women be cast.
• 1:02:30
  Jason Thompson says worries the Deep is a topical idea.
• 1:02:33
  Mutual assured destruction at the height of Cold War.
• 1:02:36
  Badly executed. Episode one sets things up
• 1:02:39
  nicely, but the rest is badly made.
• 1:02:41
  Monsters walking very slowly up corridors.
• 1:02:43
  I love the Doctor handing over his gun to break the stalemate.
• 1:02:46
  As always, I will defend Hexachromite Chekhov's gun.
• 1:02:49
  The whole point of the Doctor is increasingly desperate to find
• 1:02:52
  ways to not use it, and even when he finally does, it's only
• 1:02:56
  to try and convince the Soilerians to negotiate.
• 1:02:59
  Should have been better than it is.
• 1:03:01
  I don't. Buy that argument either, I just
• 1:03:04
  think there's about 15 other things he could have done at the
• 1:03:07
  end of this story. Anyway Tim, sorry last comment
• 1:03:09
  here. Tim Carter.
• 1:03:10
  I think this is good fun. Great comfort.
• 1:03:12
  Doctor Who comfort. It's a massacre.
• 1:03:15
  Yes the Merka is rubbish but but when has that spoiled an
• 1:03:19
  episode? Hi there Magma beast.
• 1:03:22
  As a kid growing up, the threat of nuclear attack, this was
• 1:03:24
  quite scary. Excellent.
• 1:03:28
  Right, Joe, we're going to stick with you.
• 1:03:29
  Keep or been. Oh, been good growth.
• 1:03:33
  I think Stephen is right. I think this is entirely this is
• 1:03:37
  the this is the story responsible for the death of
• 1:03:42
  Doctor Who. And I went on for 3 1/2 hours on
• 1:03:45
  the police box explaining why when we discuss this story.
• 1:03:48
  But I absolutely think Grey took one look at this and that was
• 1:03:52
  it. We were dumb.
• 1:03:53
  He saw them. Do you know what?
• 1:03:56
  I may not be giving them the budget for Star Wars whilst
• 1:03:59
  complaining that the production values are quite like Star Wars.
• 1:04:02
  But that's really quite bad given the money they have got.
• 1:04:06
  And just said that was enough. We've got wobbly walls, creaking
• 1:04:10
  mattresses pretending to be airlocks, pantomime horses
• 1:04:13
  lumbering around sets, and even worse is the lumbering
• 1:04:17
  fibreglass of the Silurians and the Sea Devils.
• 1:04:20
  I mean, that poor Silurian man who's in the back of the scene
• 1:04:25
  in the big control room. He can't even keep his head up.
• 1:04:28
  He looks like he's asleep. Look at him in the back of the
• 1:04:30
  shot. He's like his head's got hurt.
• 1:04:32
  Bless his heart. Fuck me.
• 1:04:35
  So dismally serious, isn't it, I?
• 1:04:38
  Trusted you, Nelson. Don't take it so hard,
• 1:04:40
  Commander. Like you, we were only doing our
• 1:04:43
  duties the Mercury. Is dead commander.
• 1:04:49
  That's far. Enough, Doctor.
• 1:04:50
  It seems Nielsen is an enemy agent for the Silurians.
• 1:04:53
  No, our human enemies. The power block opposed to this
• 1:04:57
  sea base. There isn't time for your petty
• 1:04:59
  feud. It's.
• 1:05:00
  So serious this What has happened to the joy of this
• 1:05:03
  show, no? There is a joke in it.
• 1:05:06
  No, it's. A bad joke if you're talking
• 1:05:07
  about that. What?
• 1:05:08
  What's that dreadful smell? But they.
• 1:05:10
  They do it twice because it's funny.
• 1:05:13
  It's awful. What have you been?
• 1:05:14
  Eating OH. God, it's terrible.
• 1:05:17
  Oh OK, I did put in a rude metaphor.
• 1:05:20
  I'm so sorry. I put here that the acting is
• 1:05:22
  stiffer than a post mathematory clean up cloth.
• 1:05:26
  I mean, it's just terrible. Everyone's awful in this, aren't
• 1:05:30
  they? Even Mark Stricktion and Janet
• 1:05:32
  Fielding are awful in this. Nobody knows how to play this
• 1:05:35
  story. Davison just about gets away
• 1:05:37
  with it because he's given a lot to do but oh God.
• 1:05:42
  And the worst scene is between, I can't remember their names,
• 1:05:46
  the Asian lady and the ginger kid.
• 1:05:50
  You know where she's literally going.
• 1:05:52
  Oh, that's. Karina.
• 1:05:54
  Thank you. Very much.
• 1:05:54
  Karina, don't throw your career away.
• 1:05:57
  He's going, I can't do it, Karina.
• 1:05:59
  I can't. I'm going, oh good God, are we
• 1:06:02
  doing sort of soap opera in the middle of this madness?
• 1:06:05
  But really bad soap. Ingrid Pitt, on the other hand,
• 1:06:08
  you know, she's smart enough to she, she knows the script's
• 1:06:12
  terrible, so she ain't going to try too hard on that.
• 1:06:14
  But you know that bit where she walks straight up to the camera
• 1:06:17
  and goes, I'm evil, You know, like she's having a great time.
• 1:06:22
  I swear to God that that karate kick was not in the script.
• 1:06:25
  She just goes, I'm going to have some fun.
• 1:06:29
  It's the first massacre of the season.
• 1:06:31
  There should have been enough away.
• 1:06:32
  You're right. Because it's the slowest, most
• 1:06:35
  ponderous massacre you're ever going to see when those two
• 1:06:38
  armies are just slowly working their way along those corridors.
• 1:06:42
  No one's hiding behind anything at all.
• 1:06:45
  They're just all in a line. Like, I know that's how we used
• 1:06:48
  to do it back in the day, but you think we would have learned
• 1:06:50
  by now, right? And, you know, people are
• 1:06:52
  literally getting on the floor. They're not dying in traumatic
• 1:06:55
  ways. They're sort of going.
• 1:06:57
  I'm not being paid enough to hurt myself.
• 1:07:00
  It's just very badly directed. The Hexachromite gas is dropped
• 1:07:06
  in episode 1 very obviously. And you, everyone can see it.
• 1:07:09
  Jason, I see what you're saying, that he is trying to find ways
• 1:07:13
  of ending the story without a massacre, but the story still
• 1:07:18
  ends on a massacre. And it's the doctor's fault.
• 1:07:20
  And I don't think we should ever really be there, that that is
• 1:07:24
  what we take from this into 22, is the doctor murdering people
• 1:07:28
  at the end of the story. And it's really unfortunate.
• 1:07:32
  Yeah, just. Sort of on every.
• 1:07:33
  Single level, I think. I think there's a movie in this
• 1:07:35
  script somewhere. I think you take out the
• 1:07:38
  dreadful dialogue and you keep the structure of the story and
• 1:07:42
  you give it £15,000,000 or something like that, you know,
• 1:07:47
  and actors that can actually act and, you know, a director that
• 1:07:51
  can bring action to life. And you've got lizards going
• 1:07:54
  into an underwater base, a terrifying Bahir moth monster
• 1:07:59
  tearing through it, murdering people and, you know, a Cold War
• 1:08:04
  story taking a place alongside it.
• 1:08:07
  That's all great stuff, but it's just all lost in a quagmire of
• 1:08:13
  ineptitude. Been it.
• 1:08:16
  So you would have been it. Yes, please.
• 1:08:18
  OK. I'll go next because when I was
• 1:08:22
  planet preparing for this, I genuinely wanted to find reasons
• 1:08:27
  to keep this in one because I always like to champion an
• 1:08:31
  underdog. I also don't want things to go
• 1:08:34
  to obvious, you know, the obvious potential winners from
• 1:08:36
  these things. Isn't it more interesting than
• 1:08:38
  something else? And there are some interesting
• 1:08:41
  bits to it that, you know, this is probably the most 1984 story.
• 1:08:45
  Stephen, you said it's, you know, this is an era about, you
• 1:08:48
  know, this obsession with nuclear war and mutually sure
• 1:08:50
  destruction. It's the 1984 the the they gave
• 1:08:53
  us threats, you know, the, the, the threat of nuclear this.
• 1:08:56
  Is not threats all right? No, not.
• 1:08:59
  Even close, you know, and you know it, it has the basis for
• 1:09:03
  being a really interesting story.
• 1:09:05
  And it I'm going to, I don't want to say there should have
• 1:09:08
  been another way because everybody said it, but it needed
• 1:09:12
  another draft. It needed a bit more thought,
• 1:09:15
  the idea of the Silurians being involved, it could have been
• 1:09:19
  interesting, but one of my problems watching it was the
• 1:09:22
  doctor continually goes on about how awful the humans are.
• 1:09:25
  Oh, you're humans are all murdering.
• 1:09:26
  You're terrible as the Silurians are basically massacring
• 1:09:30
  everybody in the sea base your. Trigger the war this base was
• 1:09:33
  designed to fight? Yes.
• 1:09:36
  And these human beings will die as they have lived.
• 1:09:41
  In a. Sea of their own.
• 1:09:43
  Blood. And he keeps talking how
• 1:09:45
  terrible the humans are and it's like, but the Silurians aren't
• 1:09:48
  exactly painting themselves to be pacifists or anything like
• 1:09:52
  that. It just doesn't work.
• 1:09:54
  It jars really badly, doesn't even.
• 1:09:56
  Say at one point these great noble people, you know, noble.
• 1:09:59
  Excuse me? And it's and and honourable to
• 1:10:03
  start a nuclear war. And they are.
• 1:10:05
  They've sent their sea monster in to basically just butcher
• 1:10:08
  everybody in its path. So why he's so keen to fight on
• 1:10:11
  their side doesn't come across. And yes, if you hop back to what
• 1:10:15
  happened in the 70s, if you remember that there there might
• 1:10:17
  be an element of it, but the story should work on its own.
• 1:10:19
  It should stand alone. It's kind of half hopes you to
• 1:10:23
  expect what happened in the 1970s story that hadn't been
• 1:10:25
  repeated in the UKI will give props Pennant Roberts for
• 1:10:31
  shaking up the gender balance of the cast is something he always
• 1:10:33
  does. And I mentioned on Blue Sky a
• 1:10:36
  couple of weeks ago, the one thing I think Pennant Roberts
• 1:10:38
  does better than Graham Harper in that he is the the balls to
• 1:10:42
  maybe not the balls to actually mix the gender of the cast and
• 1:10:46
  not just in the speaking roles. There are there are women guards
• 1:10:50
  as well, which are the. Balls to reduce the number of
• 1:10:53
  balls, yeah. I mean, they're all useless
• 1:10:55
  because they all get richer and murdered in the slowest gun
• 1:10:58
  battle ever, but she gets strangled.
• 1:11:01
  David, when that woman gets a Corona, it's horrible.
• 1:11:04
  Isn't it but the other bit? It contains possibly one of the
• 1:11:09
  most innet bits of direction we have ever seen in Doctor Who.
• 1:11:15
  And it's a scene in part three. We're in the Silurian battle
• 1:11:18
  cruiser because they've got battle cruisers now and I can't
• 1:11:20
  remember which of the three it is.
• 1:11:22
  He walks, the Silurian walks across the set incredibly slowly
• 1:11:28
  and takes the lid off the manipulator.
• 1:11:31
  And that is the 15 seconds of very slowly walking across the
• 1:11:36
  set, slowly going to pick up the lid and then very slowly taking
• 1:11:40
  it off. And it's like, what the hell is
• 1:11:43
  going on here? It's like I I literally did have
• 1:11:45
  to rewind and count how long that that one shot was going.
• 1:11:48
  What this? What is this?
• 1:11:50
  What mutation? Bay with the.
• 1:11:52
  Drama in this sequence. It's really bad.
• 1:11:56
  The the sets are good. You know, for once the sets
• 1:11:58
  actually look pretty solid, except for maybe the doors.
• 1:12:01
  It is overlit though. You know, if I'm basically
• 1:12:04
  saying the sets are well built, that's really grasping at straws
• 1:12:08
  here. The Murka is why they all kept
• 1:12:12
  thinking, let's do a giant creature.
• 1:12:16
  Let's do you know, surely somebody there should have said,
• 1:12:20
  well, we tried the garm didn't quite look right.
• 1:12:23
  We tried the giant pink snake didn't quite work.
• 1:12:26
  Why do they keep thinking giant beasts is something that we can
• 1:12:30
  pull off? I I just wonder whether or not
• 1:12:32
  somebody comes in a designer or somebody comes in going no, no,
• 1:12:35
  no, no, we can do it this time. But both Sayward and JNT should
• 1:12:39
  have just looked at the idea of the merka and gone, no, we
• 1:12:43
  cannot do this. We cannot effectively realise
• 1:12:45
  this. We're not touching it.
• 1:12:47
  But now let's just give it a go and it's a disaster.
• 1:12:50
  And then the rubber doors. I cannot.
• 1:12:54
  Believe that the designer, the producer, the director looked at
• 1:12:59
  those mattressy doors which then land on Tegan and she even makes
• 1:13:04
  a comment of how would you feel if a doors landed on you.
• 1:13:07
  I was like, well, it's just what would be?
• 1:13:09
  Rushed by that door that would. Have killed her that would have
• 1:13:12
  cut her in two, but she's sitting there making quips.
• 1:13:15
  Oh and Tegan's got absolutely sod all to do really in this
• 1:13:18
  story as well. She kind of runs around at least
• 1:13:20
  turn off has a little bit of urgency sometimes he he's
• 1:13:23
  helping to defend the base and everything but Tegan is
• 1:13:26
  completely a spare part in this. So as much as my contrary nature
• 1:13:31
  wanted to keep this, I, I can't. I can't.
• 1:13:37
  I like. I do like.
• 1:13:38
  I do find it a fun watch, but it is objectively bad, so you know
• 1:13:44
  that. Green paint that you can see on
• 1:13:46
  Janet Fielding at the end of Part 3.
• 1:13:48
  It's so rare for you to actually see the production struggles as
• 1:13:53
  part of the story, isn't it? That that bloody monster has
• 1:13:58
  just been painted and she's fallen on it and they haven't
• 1:14:02
  got time to clean her up, go for a retake or do anything?
• 1:14:06
  So she just has to try and pretend she hasn't got green
• 1:14:08
  paint all over her arm while she's acting the same.
• 1:14:10
  It's just terrible. But it did give us that line of
• 1:14:14
  you'll get no cooperation from me, Sailor Ian, which no actor
• 1:14:18
  really would be able to deliver. Well, I mean.
• 1:14:21
  Secretly, David, I'm hoping that Paul is going to now mount a
• 1:14:24
  huge defence of can you? Defend it.
• 1:14:27
  Are you going to defend it? And also, what did your younger
• 1:14:29
  self make of it? Well.
• 1:14:33
  What can I say, I start with my 13 year old self who said a good
• 1:14:37
  plot but some bits rackets like the merka didn't come off too
• 1:14:42
  well. 6 out of 10. I think he's some kind young
• 1:14:47
  self. He's very kind.
• 1:14:48
  He's quite. Generous, actually.
• 1:14:49
  Really, isn't it? Not so good, yeah.
• 1:14:54
  Obviously this is one of the ones I I possibly have come up
• 1:14:58
  with some sort of defence. I do, I do like it.
• 1:15:01
  Despite all its flaws, I do still like it.
• 1:15:03
  It has some good sets. The model work, it's brilliant.
• 1:15:07
  The Silurian craft and this, the outside shot, the sea base is
• 1:15:10
  brilliant. The idea of the return of the
• 1:15:12
  Silurians and Sea Devils was exciting.
• 1:15:16
  I like the music. I think it's got that underwater
• 1:15:19
  Y feel to it. It's not very dynamic, not very
• 1:15:22
  dramatic, but it's got that. That.
• 1:15:26
  Sound to it, which I think worked and we've everyone's
• 1:15:30
  touched on it, but in 1984 as a teenager in 1984, the idea of
• 1:15:37
  nuclear Armageddon was every it's hard to describe these days
• 1:15:42
  quite how it was in everything and it worried you as a kid sort
• 1:15:48
  of things you shouldn't be worrying about but you did
• 1:15:50
  because it was everywhere. You mentioned 2 tribes, but they
• 1:15:53
  were Queen Kate Bush. They all that's just two that
• 1:15:56
  came off the top of my head straight away.
• 1:15:58
  They've all got these nuclear destruction, you know, songs
• 1:16:03
  that are influenced by it. So this idea, this was so
• 1:16:07
  topical at the time, but there should have been another way.
• 1:16:10
  I know, everyone said. Yeah, what can?
• 1:16:14
  You say. I've tried to summarise it into
• 1:16:17
  three reasons for the sake of the format.
• 1:16:22
  Firstly, the direction. Yeah, he Pennant Roberts does
• 1:16:25
  some lovely two shots, some lovely three shots that frame
• 1:16:29
  characters really well and gives them a sort of power there or a
• 1:16:34
  foregrounding of characters. Ingrid Pitt sat at the front
• 1:16:37
  while Maddox is doing her bidding somewhere in the
• 1:16:39
  background, things like that. He does really well.
• 1:16:42
  Anything that's got any sort of action is as flat as it comes.
• 1:16:50
  You could say that the slow advance of the Sea Devils is,
• 1:16:55
  you know, dramatic because they're an unstoppable force.
• 1:16:57
  They don't need to rush. They're.
• 1:16:58
  Confident, Yeah. But.
• 1:17:01
  No. And, and basically it's been,
• 1:17:04
  it's been written as the Silurians and Sea Devils do
• 1:17:08
  earth shock, but it's earth shock on tranquillizers
• 1:17:12
  basically. And it's not it is more like a
• 1:17:19
  60s based under siege story. It's it's that there's a slow
• 1:17:23
  creeping menace coming along. But obviously television's moved
• 1:17:27
  on a lot by 1984 and. Yeah, not.
• 1:17:32
  Good. The lighting again generally too
• 1:17:34
  bright, but there's there are some shots where it's quite nice
• 1:17:37
  and in some of the corridors they bring it down a bit and
• 1:17:40
  when they put it on the missile run that's probably the level it
• 1:17:43
  should have all the time because that is quite good like a.
• 1:17:47
  Sub, you know, it's like a sub, isn't it?
• 1:17:49
  It's that sort of red light in a submarine, yeah.
• 1:17:52
  Yeah. So yeah, it's not pulled
• 1:17:54
  together very well. The second reason is the cast
• 1:17:57
  and, and in particular the supporting artists.
• 1:18:01
  I mean, the cast is competent. They're OK, They deliver lines
• 1:18:04
  and they're OK. But no one shines.
• 1:18:08
  No one steps up and even pouring repair.
• 1:18:11
  I mean, she doesn't get a chance to do what she she's good at
• 1:18:13
  those sheets. She just has to sit there.
• 1:18:16
  Doing, as you say, the I'm evil. You're a hard man, Nielsen, but
• 1:18:22
  you forget I'm a doctor. Murder.
• 1:18:25
  Does not come easily to a person.
• 1:18:26
  Of my training, don't. Bleed Salah She.
• 1:18:29
  Didn't. Even get her tits.
• 1:18:31
  Out like she didn't. Exactly, for God's sakes.
• 1:18:35
  Honestly, if you've got. You've got the assets, you need
• 1:18:37
  to put them on this exactly. You'd think J&T would be aware
• 1:18:41
  of that, absolutely. Is it some sort of joke that the
• 1:18:45
  doctor doesn't actually see her? Because the only time they're in
• 1:18:49
  the scene together, he ducks down behind the the big light,
• 1:18:54
  the UV light thing and then jumps up again afterwards after
• 1:18:57
  she's gone? And as if is that some sort of
• 1:19:00
  in joke? I don't know a great.
• 1:19:02
  Meeting between Peter Davidson and Ingrid Pitt, but.
• 1:19:05
  Commander Vorshak. Tom Adams isn't it.
• 1:19:08
  He's wandering around that base. His.
• 1:19:10
  Nuclear base that he's the commander of, which is under
• 1:19:13
  attack from an alien and he's wandering around like it's a a
• 1:19:16
  Sunday afternoon stroll. It pops along to the door to see
• 1:19:19
  the troops who were defended. Then he wanders along to have a
• 1:19:21
  chat with the dog. It's like.
• 1:19:24
  There is. No, no sense that it has any
• 1:19:28
  threat going on to him and the sporting art.
• 1:19:32
  I've no, I've been a supporting artist, I do this work and so I
• 1:19:36
  feel sorry for them sometimes. But you've got that guard
• 1:19:39
  banging limply on the door. I don't know what he's been
• 1:19:43
  told. He's been told bang that door
• 1:19:46
  but don't make any sound because that will fuck up the sound
• 1:19:48
  recording. Don't destroy the set actually.
• 1:19:52
  Really hard to do something like that and not make the contact
• 1:19:56
  that's going to make the set. So I feel sorry for him, but it
• 1:19:59
  looks shit. And Joe, you mentioned it.
• 1:20:01
  The, the one, it's a particular woman.
• 1:20:05
  Four of them are electrocuted. And the woman on the far left.
• 1:20:08
  She lowers herself gently to the floor, putting her hand out
• 1:20:12
  first, getting herself into a comfortable position as she
• 1:20:15
  drops. She's thinking, thank God I'm
• 1:20:17
  out of this shit now. She's absolutely she she's there
• 1:20:21
  thinking what the going on. I'm not.
• 1:20:24
  I'm not engaged with this. Yeah, I do still think the
• 1:20:30
  regulars are great with what they're given.
• 1:20:31
  And I still think Mark Strickson is.
• 1:20:34
  I think he's the only one who gives any sense of urgency in
• 1:20:36
  those. I say I put the quotes up battle
• 1:20:39
  scenes. He's the only one who's moving
• 1:20:41
  with any speed and any urgency, and it it makes him look manic
• 1:20:47
  against everyone else who's just sort of stood there going, oh.
• 1:20:50
  Do you remember the shooting? At me he runs.
• 1:20:52
  Into a room, right? And he's, he's clocked, yeah,
• 1:20:55
  he's clocked onto the fact that everyone's a bit sort of
• 1:20:57
  mandalistic around him. So he's like, right.
• 1:21:00
  And he goes the control to the thing.
• 1:21:03
  Where is it? He's gone like he's you're
• 1:21:06
  right. He's bloody bonkers, but it's
• 1:21:09
  only. Because everyone, he's acting
• 1:21:11
  exactly like you or I would in that situation, but everyone
• 1:21:15
  else is just so laid back. I mean, even when he puts a
• 1:21:19
  chair to the wall to climb into the ventilation, he puts far
• 1:21:22
  more energy into that than any of the other cats do in any of
• 1:21:25
  their scenes. So yeah, none of them shine.
• 1:21:30
  And obviously the monsters, you've said it all.
• 1:21:33
  The costumes are quite good. And at the start in their ships,
• 1:21:36
  you said it as well. They look really good in their
• 1:21:38
  ship. Then they come out and they're
• 1:21:41
  in the brightly lit sea base. You can see the RIP up the back
• 1:21:45
  of the Silurian's ass excuse. Me the.
• 1:21:53
  The Silurian's eye suddenly flashes to tell you which one's
• 1:21:57
  talking, and the sea Devil doesn't have that luxury, so he
• 1:22:00
  has to wobble his head, which is very unfortunate because it's
• 1:22:04
  already very wobbly, so as soon as he's talking, his head's.
• 1:22:07
  Bobbing. About like Christ knows what.
• 1:22:10
  A balloon on a stick, I think. Why are they?
• 1:22:13
  All smiling as well. I figure they're so sadistic
• 1:22:16
  though Silurians because they all look as if they're having
• 1:22:19
  the best day ever and there's. A scene which is is
• 1:22:21
  unintentionally hilarious, I don't know if you all noticed
• 1:22:24
  it, where the the Silurians carried their bulbous headed
• 1:22:27
  cutting device into the shot at groin level, which I can't I
• 1:22:31
  just can't take seriously. It's available from Anne
• 1:22:35
  Summers. I'll get you the catalogue and.
• 1:22:37
  Yeah, the merka. Now I will say something.
• 1:22:42
  Obviously back at the end of the day, I was videoing I, I had
• 1:22:46
  AVCR by this time and I videoed Doctor Who and for some reason
• 1:22:49
  something went wrong with my recording of episode 3 and it
• 1:22:53
  came out in black and white. So for years I could only see
• 1:22:56
  episode 3 in black and white. I'm not saying.
• 1:22:59
  It makes the merka look good, but it's a hell of a lot better
• 1:23:04
  than it was when I then saw it in colour again and thought, OK,
• 1:23:08
  I see what everyone's getting at.
• 1:23:09
  If the lightning brought down, the colour had been brought
• 1:23:12
  down, it may have worked. Just imagine some respect a pair
• 1:23:17
  of. Lights, yeah.
• 1:23:18
  And the silhouette. Just that.
• 1:23:20
  Yeah, I think it could have worked, yeah.
• 1:23:25
  And yeah, I, I assume it was supposed to be able to lash out
• 1:23:28
  at people because all the guards who get killed by it literally
• 1:23:32
  walk up to it to get electrocuted by it.
• 1:23:35
  So it just stands there and waits for everything to come to
• 1:23:38
  it. So it's, yeah, it's dreadful.
• 1:23:41
  Yeah, you've mentioned it again. The Doctor keeps on defending
• 1:23:43
  the Silurians and Sea Devils are being honourable despite the
• 1:23:47
  fact that they are literally there trying to create a
• 1:23:49
  genocide. You know, Donald Trump, he's
• 1:23:52
  such an honourable man, isn't he?
• 1:23:54
  Exactly. Yeah, and the the point of the
• 1:23:57
  Silurians in Doctor Who and the Silurians was that they were
• 1:24:01
  individuals. They weren't all honourable.
• 1:24:04
  One of them did want to wipe out the humans, one of them didn't.
• 1:24:09
  They're individuals. But now it's basically this one
• 1:24:12
  character trait of one of those characters has been put onto the
• 1:24:16
  whole race basically and it so it doesn't work.
• 1:24:20
  So no, sorry, I am going to have to bin it.
• 1:24:25
  We did all. At one point, say there should
• 1:24:27
  have been another way, didn't we?
• 1:24:28
  I think we did, yeah. I I mean that was that should
• 1:24:31
  have been my one Rd. review really, but.
• 1:24:36
  There should. Have been another way.
• 1:24:42
  I wasn't that clever back then watching.
• 1:24:44
  This one right watching this one for for this as they're doing
• 1:24:47
  the research for this every time I put it on I have the same
• 1:24:50
  fault Why have I wasted my life on this nonsense like every time
• 1:24:56
  I I watch this story I. Think the thing that when you
• 1:24:59
  watch them like the Sea Devils and you look at how dynamic they
• 1:25:02
  are even just to the guns, you know the the the flame effect on
• 1:25:05
  the guns in this, they've got the slowest visual effect going
• 1:25:09
  and sometimes they'll hit and sometimes they'll miss even
• 1:25:11
  though they're percent about that's.
• 1:25:12
  Very Pennant Roberts, you know, go watch the pirate planet.
• 1:25:16
  It's very you hit on this just. The thing that 82 sometimes does
• 1:25:20
  is let's do laser guns, let's do effects, and it's like, it
• 1:25:23
  almost never works. But when, as we'll see possibly
• 1:25:25
  in a later story, when you put real weapons in, it feels a bit
• 1:25:28
  more dynamic and more dangerous. But I think it's fair to say
• 1:25:33
  we've just had a four. Way.
• 1:25:34
  Keep and a four way bin. Yes, that's.
• 1:25:36
  Quite. Rare as well.
• 1:25:38
  So worries that the deep is out, I don't think that's going to
• 1:25:41
  come to much of a surprise to anyone that that's kind of going
• 1:25:45
  to go. But Joe, what's your choice?
• 1:25:49
  I. Would like to keep Planet of
• 1:25:54
  Fire, if I may, which I think is a bit underrated.
• 1:26:00
  Is this the most beautiful production that JNT brought to
• 1:26:05
  the screen in his entire era? I think in terms of the money
• 1:26:09
  being on the screen, in terms of the sets, in terms of the
• 1:26:12
  location work. And I know because Jason
• 1:26:14
  Thompson reminded me in the week about the song Lanzarotti, you
• 1:26:18
  know, double up. But who cares?
• 1:26:21
  It looks visually sumptuous. It's gorgeous.
• 1:26:25
  Those scenes of them walking across the volcanic ash.
• 1:26:28
  It's the best alien planet we have in Classic Who on location.
• 1:26:32
  It's just, it's not just another boring quarry, but also just
• 1:26:36
  simple effects like the mountain and the flame, the the visual
• 1:26:41
  effects of the master being shrunk down inside that box.
• 1:26:45
  Very clever. Yeah.
• 1:26:47
  I just think on on every level, the the money is on the screen
• 1:26:50
  and he didn't have a lot of money.
• 1:26:52
  So the fact that he can produce something that looks this good
• 1:26:55
  is a near miracle. I think Timonov is a really
• 1:27:02
  interesting character. It's Peter Wingard.
• 1:27:05
  So of course he's interesting like Jesus Christ, But you know,
• 1:27:09
  he's a religious figure who's exploitative, he's
• 1:27:13
  untrustworthy, he's political, he's reactionary, he's all of
• 1:27:18
  those things. He's easily duped by the Master
• 1:27:21
  and yet throughout the entire story, he utterly believes in
• 1:27:26
  his God throughout this entire story, right up until the end of
• 1:27:30
  the story where he steps into the and you know, they throw it
• 1:27:33
  away because they can't really show religious suicide at the
• 1:27:37
  end of the story. But that's the idea, right?
• 1:27:39
  He's gone off to kill himself at the end.
• 1:27:43
  So he is, he's a nasty bit of work, but thoughtful with it,
• 1:27:48
  not always a terrible person and true to himself.
• 1:27:53
  That's what I really like about him.
• 1:27:55
  He's always true to himself and what he believes.
• 1:27:58
  And I think Wingard plays it with a lot of charm.
• 1:28:01
  All of that sort of 90s, what you want to call it, sorry, 70s
• 1:28:06
  sleeves or you know, the porn star that he was playing
• 1:28:09
  throughout most of the 70s is gone.
• 1:28:11
  Blessing. And the behind the scenes
• 1:28:12
  stories about him as well are wonderful.
• 1:28:15
  Did you hear the stories about him wanting to play it like an
• 1:28:17
  old man? And he was sort of playing it
• 1:28:20
  all like this and he wanted a white wig and he was absolutely
• 1:28:23
  convinced. He did all the rehearsals like
• 1:28:25
  that and Fiona coming in and how do we convince him just to play
• 1:28:30
  it as himself? And then on the plane he goes,
• 1:28:33
  do you know what he goes? I don't think I will play it as
• 1:28:36
  an old man. I'll do it.
• 1:28:37
  And they're all good. Fake.
• 1:28:39
  Because that's what we would have got otherwise.
• 1:28:42
  It's a great score as well. Is this Peter Howe?
• 1:28:45
  I think Peter Howe and Paddy King and between them deliver
• 1:28:48
  amazing scores, but I always think Howe is just an inch
• 1:28:51
  above. Yeah, I think it's a silly,
• 1:28:55
  understated and at times lyrical score that really underscores
• 1:29:00
  the the fact that thoughtful things are happening and being
• 1:29:03
  discussed in this. It's one of the best scores of
• 1:29:05
  the 80s. Perry gets a great introduction
• 1:29:09
  in this. Like, she's not lost.
• 1:29:11
  There's a whole weight of elements or shopping list of
• 1:29:14
  elements in this story, and yet she's never lost in all the
• 1:29:17
  millions of things that are going on.
• 1:29:19
  She's sort of, she sort of weaved into every plot.
• 1:29:22
  She has a confrontation with the Master, which is probably the
• 1:29:25
  best scene in her entire run where she stands up to him.
• 1:29:29
  Or is it comedian is the Master? Actually it's a.
• 1:29:31
  Median at that point, but yeah. She has a terrific rapport with.
• 1:29:35
  Both. Pete Davidson and Mark
• 1:29:38
  Strickson. And I've sort of was watching
• 1:29:40
  this going, yeah, I could have done with a season of these
• 1:29:43
  three, You know, I think they would have been quite
• 1:29:45
  interesting. Yeah, I always think that this
• 1:29:50
  is like the forgettable one of the season and then every time I
• 1:29:53
  watch it I'll come away quite impressed with what I've seen
• 1:29:57
  and I know next week I'll think this is the forgettable one of
• 1:30:00
  the season again. But whilst I'm watching it, I
• 1:30:03
  think from episode there's lots of ideas in there, there's lots
• 1:30:06
  of great lines. I think he's a really
• 1:30:09
  interesting writer. Peter Brimwade, he likes
• 1:30:13
  tackling big ideas. Unfortunately, he's right.
• 1:30:15
  And Doctor Who, so he's got to marry that with sort of the
• 1:30:19
  action adventure and keeping things moving and things like
• 1:30:21
  that. But he does, he does like
• 1:30:23
  talking about big weighty issues.
• 1:30:25
  He did it in Morden Undead with those, with the suicide of the
• 1:30:30
  aliens in that even that little bit in time flight, maybe not
• 1:30:34
  that much. Yeah, I think this is, I think
• 1:30:37
  this is a much underrated story. It's beautiful to look at, it
• 1:30:42
  has great characters in it. I love the religious aspect
• 1:30:46
  aspect to it. I don't think it's short
• 1:30:47
  changed. Please can we keep Planet of
• 1:30:50
  Fire? Although I know someone here
• 1:30:53
  isn't going to like it because people mostly think it's very
• 1:30:55
  boring indeed. Well, before we find out, should
• 1:30:59
  we go and see what the listeners have to say?
• 1:31:02
  Oh. Let's do it.
• 1:31:03
  I'll kick off this time. So Daniel Rosley says pretty to
• 1:31:06
  look at both places and people. It's equal opportunity pretty
• 1:31:10
  too. Bikini Perry, Speedo Strixon and
• 1:31:12
  waistcoat Davo. Those shots of the Doctor and
• 1:31:14
  Turlo trudging through the volcanic waste are great and
• 1:31:17
  also indescribably funny. Prefer the Master stuff to the
• 1:31:20
  Timonov stuff. How did?
• 1:31:22
  I not mention all the flesh on display in this story.
• 1:31:26
  I've been. Waiting for that, what is?
• 1:31:27
  Wrong with me. Can I just say that?
• 1:31:30
  That bit, Yeah. Imagine if your mother walked in
• 1:31:33
  during that scene where Turlo in his briefs in his underpants,
• 1:31:37
  froze Nicola Bryan on the bed in a bikini.
• 1:31:40
  I mean, what the hell would you think you were watching?
• 1:31:43
  Jack Coir says. 2. Completely unrelated plot Freds
• 1:31:47
  that we cut back and forth between, but at least one has
• 1:31:50
  Anthony Ainley and the other has Peter Wingard.
• 1:31:53
  Davison is already starting to look checked out.
• 1:31:55
  I don't agree with that in this. I don't agree with that.
• 1:31:58
  His reaction to the death of the Master at the end is pretty
• 1:32:02
  good, and we're seeing the 6th Doctor emerging as he allows the
• 1:32:05
  Master to seemingly die and then does a bit of euthanasia on
• 1:32:08
  Chameleon. There's some interesting stuff
• 1:32:10
  with the Turlo back story, but why is it crammed into this
• 1:32:13
  story by the numbers? Doctor Who fluff that
• 1:32:16
  occasionally looks pretty and let's our new companion show off
• 1:32:20
  her talents. I don't know what he's possibly
• 1:32:24
  alluding to there, James HB. I know, James says.
• 1:32:30
  Thank goodness for the four part version as a special edition is
• 1:32:33
  a catastrophe. No, it's not the strongest, but
• 1:32:36
  I want to keep it as a tribute to Peter Wingard, a reminder of
• 1:32:39
  what damn talent was lost due to puritanicalism in the 70s and
• 1:32:43
  Turlo in Speedos. Oh, do you love how he went from
• 1:32:46
  sorry so smart to utterly facetious there?
• 1:32:49
  Gareth says. Never made much of an impression
• 1:32:52
  on me beyond finally giving Chameleon something to do Die.
• 1:32:56
  I like the master Chameleon suit better than the Penguin suit.
• 1:32:59
  I like Perry Turlo leaves it should have been memorable
• 1:33:03
  somehow. It's not.
• 1:33:05
  Dave. Flint, I never know what to make
• 1:33:07
  of Planet of Fire. The show starts early with its
• 1:33:09
  object objectification of Perry and that scuppers Nicola
• 1:33:13
  Bryant's tenure as they never let it go.
• 1:33:15
  Great departure for Turlo, clever use of the Master and a
• 1:33:17
  great Part 2 cliffhanger, but the Mystic stuff is a bit dull.
• 1:33:21
  Undecided. Jay, Shall We?
• 1:33:24
  Says Planet of Fire is one of those shopping list stories that
• 1:33:27
  Robert Holmes famously loathed, but Peter Grimroy's script
• 1:33:30
  largely succeeds in delivering everything else of it.
• 1:33:33
  Turlo's origins are finally explored and Mark Strickson
• 1:33:36
  rises to the occasion. Perry bursts on to Doctor Who
• 1:33:40
  here, causing the country's dads and lads to stand up and pay
• 1:33:44
  attention. I beg your pardon, Jay shall re.
• 1:33:47
  It's a memorable debut for the character, but she's never again
• 1:33:50
  written as strongly as she is here.
• 1:33:52
  Strong performances from a strong guest cast, although
• 1:33:55
  Barbara Shelley is wasted. Candy J Planet of Fire is an
• 1:34:00
  underrated gem and is unfairly overshadowed by being bookended
• 1:34:04
  by two epic adventures. Lots, lots to appreciate in it.
• 1:34:08
  Edward Cook Reese While it does OK with the shopping list
• 1:34:11
  premise, it does feel cumbersome.
• 1:34:13
  Lucy. McCall although I struggle to
• 1:34:15
  make the timelines make sense and it suffers from small planet
• 1:34:17
  syndrome, I do like Planet of Fire for giving Perry a good
• 1:34:20
  introduction and giving redemption to Turlow, and for
• 1:34:23
  showing that this Doctor can be ruthless.
• 1:34:26
  Small planet syndrome, Paul Dunn.
• 1:34:29
  Planet of Fire is a total mess. Oh, Paul, I guess the filming is
• 1:34:32
  nice, but filming at the sun and Lazarotti makes it hard work,
• 1:34:36
  hard to work out where you are. It's OK.
• 1:34:39
  It's the kindest thing you can say.
• 1:34:40
  And it's not a shit. It's a special edition.
• 1:34:42
  Special is in inverted commas. The poor.
• 1:34:46
  Special Edition There's nobody. No, it's pretty terrible.
• 1:34:50
  Michael Storm. I really like this story.
• 1:34:52
  It's got a bit of an old school feel about it.
• 1:34:54
  Turno again gets a good back story.
• 1:34:56
  Perry gets a solid debut as a character, though the bikini
• 1:34:59
  scene does cast a negative shadow over her character.
• 1:35:01
  From then on, keep. Tim Carter, Bit of a dull plot.
• 1:35:05
  Nicola Bryant gets a great introduction.
• 1:35:07
  She's brave and capable when she's really good with the 5th
• 1:35:10
  Doctor. The Lanzarote location work is
• 1:35:12
  stunning. Mark restriction in Speedos.
• 1:35:16
  It was a revelation to me as a young man.
• 1:35:19
  It's a definite theme. A revelation, Tim?
• 1:35:22
  Really. Daniel Knight pilot looks great
• 1:35:25
  thanks to stunning film work and Nicola Bright is stunning in her
• 1:35:28
  debut although she never gets to be as strong as she is here.
• 1:35:31
  Again. The long list of things to
• 1:35:33
  include means the plot is a bit slow, but Mark Strickson gets a
• 1:35:36
  good send off and the master twist is masterful.
• 1:35:41
  When Perry runs around after him with her shoe, it's just
• 1:35:44
  wonderful isn't it? Kieran Evans.
• 1:35:47
  A strong start for Perry and Turlo gets a much needed back
• 1:35:50
  story. His character has changed quite
• 1:35:52
  a lot since his introduction. Amy is great and we can see what
• 1:35:55
  they could have been doing with Chameleon all the time.
• 1:35:58
  Good music. Luke Sims Jenkins Planet of Fire
• 1:36:01
  is great. I do wish we learned more about
• 1:36:03
  where Turlo came came from before his last story.
• 1:36:06
  Plus one of the best companion intros ever, and that's got a
• 1:36:11
  number of OS in there as well. Luke, as soon as Jenkins, you
• 1:36:16
  dirty buddy. That is a bit of a problem with
• 1:36:18
  the the Giants here, isn't it? You can't get your companion
• 1:36:21
  back story either at the start of your tenure or the end.
• 1:36:24
  That's it. And in the middle, it's just a
• 1:36:26
  lot of running around. Jason Thompson finishes our
• 1:36:29
  comments here. Planet of.
• 1:36:31
  Fire, I love it feels inconsequential, and yet it's at
• 1:36:35
  once a great showing for Amy as the chameleon master, an
• 1:36:38
  excellent introduction of Perry, and a decent leaving story for
• 1:36:42
  Turlo, even if it does cram in all of his back story at once.
• 1:36:45
  One thing here it is, here it is everybody.
• 1:36:47
  One thing I can't forgive it for is using Lanzarote as a location
• 1:36:51
  for an alien world and setting the Earthbound action on
• 1:36:54
  Lanzarote, meaning we'd lose any sense of the TARDIS actually
• 1:36:59
  travelling between worlds. Thank you Jason, I knew you
• 1:37:01
  wouldn't disappoint me with the details.
• 1:37:04
  Right. I will go first here because I
• 1:37:08
  want to keep Planet of Fire and I are of these six, this is my
• 1:37:14
  favorite and I'm glad somebody else picked it because I get the
• 1:37:18
  chance to vote to keep it in your.
• 1:37:21
  Favorite I think. It's my favorite.
• 1:37:23
  I think it's of the especially this time around watching it, I
• 1:37:25
  enjoyed this one the most, I think because it's not a
• 1:37:28
  bloodbath, it's not grim, it's not miserable.
• 1:37:31
  It's actually it feels quite traditional.
• 1:37:34
  There's another one that's quite traditional as well, but it's
• 1:37:37
  all the better for it. Yes, it is a shopping list of
• 1:37:40
  ideas and it's kind of what we see a lot in the 80s of it must
• 1:37:43
  include Perry's introduction, Turtle's departure, the return
• 1:37:46
  of the master firm one Lanzarote.
• 1:37:48
  But I think Peter Grimm it makes it work it on the whole I think
• 1:37:52
  it's a really good and it's a good production as well.
• 1:37:56
  I think Fiona coming directs it well.
• 1:37:58
  Lanzarote really works as an alien landscape.
• 1:38:01
  I I'm with you. I don't care the fact that you
• 1:38:03
  have some bits on Lanzarote and some bits later you know Doctor
• 1:38:07
  Who's doubled up locations on how many different stories in
• 1:38:10
  the past and it doesn't matter. So I genuinely don't care, but
• 1:38:15
  I've never been to Lanzarote, but I have been to Tenerife, up
• 1:38:17
  the mountains, and those landscapes are like another
• 1:38:22
  world. They are really eerie and
• 1:38:24
  ethereal and I think it was a really good decision to go and
• 1:38:28
  use that location as an alien world.
• 1:38:30
  It is really effective, really evocative, it looks great.
• 1:38:35
  It's a good story for Turlo. It's again another example of
• 1:38:39
  what Mark Strickson can do. When you actually writer
• 1:38:42
  performance. He's not just being histrionic.
• 1:38:44
  He's not just being having his race memory like in front of us.
• 1:38:47
  He's worried. He's obviously when the single
• 1:38:50
  from Tryon comes in and he's trying to hide it from the
• 1:38:52
  doctor and you're kind of is he up to no good?
• 1:38:54
  Again, he's a bit. He's very honest in that scene.
• 1:38:56
  David, you're finished. Chameleon A.
• 1:39:01
  Little bit, little bit. He's just trying to, you know,
• 1:39:03
  bring up his game against the prop that he has to act against.
• 1:39:09
  But he's really good. And it it it's a good exit.
• 1:39:12
  It's one where it's seeded throughout.
• 1:39:13
  It's not just something they've bolted on at the end because
• 1:39:16
  they've the the contracts run out.
• 1:39:17
  So we have to write them out in the last scene.
• 1:39:19
  It feels like it builds to his departure and it feels logical.
• 1:39:23
  It feels earned. Perry echoing a lot of things
• 1:39:27
  people said in the comments. Perry gets off to a strong
• 1:39:29
  start. I think that where she faces off
• 1:39:31
  against Chameleon on the mountain top, and then when
• 1:39:33
  she's chasing the Master round the miniaturized Master around
• 1:39:37
  the TARDIS with her shoe is brilliant.
• 1:39:40
  And I think she's a bit whiny, but it's understandable when
• 1:39:44
  you've been marooned on an alien planet and your your
• 1:39:46
  stepfather's turned into a silver robot and then into, she
• 1:39:49
  calls him a gangster. I don't know why she thinks the
• 1:39:51
  Master's a gangster. I don't know where that came
• 1:39:52
  from, but you know, she's really good.
• 1:39:56
  It's not. Showy.
• 1:39:57
  I felt it's like it's not trying to show off at times.
• 1:40:00
  It's got this good location, it's making the most of it, but
• 1:40:02
  it's not trying to do anything big or grand.
• 1:40:04
  It's just trying to tell the story.
• 1:40:07
  Peter Wanggaard is excellent and mainly as the chameleon master I
• 1:40:12
  think gives some of his best performances.
• 1:40:14
  Although isn't there that story where he gave quite a sinister
• 1:40:18
  performance and then some direction came down from JNT
• 1:40:21
  that he had to camp it up and make it bigger?
• 1:40:24
  But it's still, I think one of his better moments and.
• 1:40:28
  It's not a Lystosh's finest moment though, is it?
• 1:40:32
  So. His beard and mustache is not
• 1:40:35
  their finest moment, no. It's you can sometimes see
• 1:40:39
  things to me starting to come away slightly in in the breeze.
• 1:40:43
  But what I also really like about it is the doctors quite
• 1:40:46
  central to the story as well, because I think there are a
• 1:40:48
  couple of other stories in this season where the doctors there,
• 1:40:52
  but what is the what's the doctor actually doing to drive
• 1:40:55
  the story? Anything?
• 1:40:56
  The the doctor is central to the story and the resolution and all
• 1:40:59
  the companions play a part in that as well.
• 1:41:01
  So it uses the regulars really well, so.
• 1:41:05
  Yeah. I, I want to keep Planet of
• 1:41:07
  Fire, which I'm glad that we've got this far with it because I,
• 1:41:13
  you know, I, it is that story that I think sometimes people
• 1:41:16
  forget about or don't talk about.
• 1:41:18
  Anyway, that's enough for me. Paul Platifier.
• 1:41:22
  Right, start off with 13 year old me.
• 1:41:26
  This is the shortest review of them all.
• 1:41:29
  A good story with brilliant sets. 8 out of 10.
• 1:41:33
  I'm thinking spice sets, I mean locations.
• 1:41:36
  I probably didn't know the difference at 13.
• 1:41:38
  So that was my review. My point viewpoint then my
• 1:41:43
  viewpoint now is that this is my absolute favorite of the season.
• 1:41:50
  Oh. Wow, this.
• 1:41:52
  Is actually one of my favorite stories.
• 1:41:55
  Ever of Doctor. Who I can't entirely put my
• 1:41:59
  finger on why, but it is I, it's one I've watched so many times
• 1:42:05
  over the I just enjoy so much about it.
• 1:42:08
  I, I, I've got, I've got reams and notes here, Joe, some of the
• 1:42:11
  things you said, a lot of the things you said, I thought, have
• 1:42:14
  you been reading my notes? Yes, I was in your.
• 1:42:17
  House this morning, yes, looking over your eyes that's.
• 1:42:19
  Who it was, I think it stands out as being something a little
• 1:42:22
  bit different to everything around it and I could put it
• 1:42:25
  through on the basis of the amount of male flesh on display
• 1:42:28
  on its own. And I almost came up with a
• 1:42:29
  spirited defence based solely on how Amy and fills his shorts in
• 1:42:35
  the studio scenes. Once you spot that, you can't
• 1:42:37
  take your eyes off it. Also, Howard gets his gear off
• 1:42:42
  in episode 1. Oh.
• 1:42:44
  And Howard's chest. Yes.
• 1:42:45
  Yes. Very nice, yes.
• 1:42:47
  I don't know why you're shaking your head, Stephen B You've got
• 1:42:50
  plenty of flesh on display for you in this story as well.
• 1:42:52
  I. Didn't say anything.
• 1:42:55
  He's he's. Looking very disapprovingly
• 1:42:57
  ours. Yeah, I think it.
• 1:43:00
  I think it's satisfactory. Yeah, you've meant everyone
• 1:43:03
  mentioned it. So it's a shop list, shopping
• 1:43:04
  list. But I think it satisfactorily
• 1:43:07
  achieves everything it sets out to do.
• 1:43:09
  It doesn't show. It hangs together well.
• 1:43:11
  I think Perry gets a really good instruction.
• 1:43:13
  We've all said this, the resolutions.
• 1:43:15
  Turner's arc is well done. Chameleon works well here and
• 1:43:20
  the Masters motives are clear. I mean, he's not after universal
• 1:43:23
  domination. He's made a massive cock up and
• 1:43:25
  he needs to sort it out. So this is the master is most
• 1:43:29
  real almost. Yeah, it's probably the most
• 1:43:30
  character driven script of the season.
• 1:43:32
  Everyone's actions impact on the other characters and the
• 1:43:36
  situations and drive it forward. So but you want 3 reasons.
• 1:43:40
  So my three reasons I decided were and the first one was
• 1:43:45
  Timonov, which again, Joe, you've practically said most of
• 1:43:49
  it, but it would have been so easy to play Timonov as your
• 1:43:53
  typical religious zealot, your sci-fi cypher, your Brian
• 1:43:58
  blessed from Blake 7 or even bless her Jacqueline Hill from
• 1:44:02
  Meg loss, although she's great in it.
• 1:44:05
  You know, he he could have been doing that it.
• 1:44:07
  Descended from the heavens. Acting, but he's not, he brings
• 1:44:11
  it all in. He reigns everything in to make
• 1:44:14
  a real character and he's not a obviously he, you know, there
• 1:44:18
  are parts about him, things he he does which aren't rape, but
• 1:44:22
  it gives him a dignity. That.
• 1:44:24
  Doctor Who doesn't really give to its religious characters that
• 1:44:27
  I think he is a man of faith. It really stands.
• 1:44:31
  Out, doesn't it? It really stands out because
• 1:44:33
  he's a man of faith. He could have, sorry, he could
• 1:44:35
  have been just just that obvious villain that.
• 1:44:38
  That one note, yeah, proclaiming death to the heretics all the
• 1:44:43
  time, that sort of thing. He's a man of faith, and that
• 1:44:46
  faith is being continuously tested.
• 1:44:48
  And yet. He.
• 1:44:48
  Still maintains it and there's some lines.
• 1:44:51
  He unbelievers are such such unhappy souls.
• 1:44:56
  In his heart, he believes that what he's doing is for the best.
• 1:45:00
  Even. When it you know, it could have
• 1:45:01
  been over the top, sees the enemies of Logar arrest all
• 1:45:05
  unbelievers. But for when he sees what's
• 1:45:06
  going on and it's so matter of fact it's not over the top.
• 1:45:11
  And then he accepts Turlo because his faith demands it.
• 1:45:14
  And I love the lying in the opening scene where it says
• 1:45:17
  accept. Accept what you see and hear and
• 1:45:20
  feel all around you, and the faith will come.
• 1:45:24
  It's. It's just does it so it's so
• 1:45:26
  sincere, that beautiful way, you know?
• 1:45:29
  That bit where he goes that logar is everywhere he cares
• 1:45:34
  I'm. Coming to that and he.
• 1:45:37
  Just Wingard absolutely believes it, doesn't he?
• 1:45:41
  He's like that in the final scene as well, where he's
• 1:45:44
  obviously going to go off and they're all going to stay and
• 1:45:46
  die with the planet that he does that so understated.
• 1:45:50
  And. You know he talks about, you
• 1:45:52
  know you'll never understand faith.
• 1:45:54
  Yeah, this was literally and actually.
• 1:45:55
  In the writing I thought that was quite a nice approach to it
• 1:45:58
  as well, considering doctors usually when it comes to faith
• 1:46:00
  is usually a bit more scathing. It's nicely done.
• 1:46:03
  I mean, the scene with him remembering the moment he saw
• 1:46:06
  Logo in the TARDIS, I think that's really well done.
• 1:46:09
  And there's a sort of music musical sting behind it which
• 1:46:12
  really underscores it and sells it, I find.
• 1:46:27
  And then there's the irony that which Tim of himself picks up
• 1:46:31
  that it's Amiant who gets to play play Logar at the end.
• 1:46:36
  And he says leave us in peace. We wish to die with our city.
• 1:46:39
  A deception, another deception and from a heritage.
• 1:46:43
  So it's he's been caught. He's had this has happened to
• 1:46:46
  him before. You know, people tried to
• 1:46:47
  deceive him and his faith has stuck through it.
• 1:46:50
  And then he says that line, yeah, you'll never understand.
• 1:46:52
  Amiant Logar is everywhere. He cares for the faithful.
• 1:46:56
  And then there's the other point.
• 1:46:58
  It at that point, it had been so easy for the character of Amyond
• 1:47:01
  to ridicule him, demean him, you know, for everything he's done.
• 1:47:06
  But he uses Timonos faith to try and save him, And perhaps that's
• 1:47:09
  why he sent the trip from the ship from Tryon.
• 1:47:12
  Perhaps he wants you to live and that forgiveness and it's
• 1:47:17
  something you never, I don't think you ever see a scene like
• 1:47:20
  that in anything else in Doctor Who.
• 1:47:23
  It really, it gives me, it actually gives me goosebumps
• 1:47:26
  some of some of that bit. So yeah, that it's the last.
• 1:47:30
  Thing you expect to see in the middle of season 21 isn't.
• 1:47:33
  It. Absolutely.
• 1:47:35
  And considering what I said about season 21 and why I loved
• 1:47:38
  it. The fact.
• 1:47:39
  That this is the one which has risen to the top is quite it's
• 1:47:43
  quite something, I think. But anyway, moving on to my
• 1:47:46
  second reason, which is the regulars, particularly Turlo.
• 1:47:50
  They're all shy. I love Davidson in his
• 1:47:52
  waistcoat. That look is just so much better
• 1:47:56
  than his normal look. Conflict between the doctor and
• 1:47:58
  Turlo. You don't.
• 1:48:00
  Get this this sort of thing. Normally, if you're holding back
• 1:48:03
  anything that will aid the master, our friendship is at an
• 1:48:05
  end. It's it's.
• 1:48:08
  Proper character stuff. And the doctor's glasses.
• 1:48:10
  The back is always better when he's got his glasses.
• 1:48:12
  Davison, have you noticed that every story he wears the
• 1:48:14
  glasses, he's better? Yeah.
• 1:48:16
  Pete Davidson looking paralysed as the master burns at the end.
• 1:48:20
  He could see it in his face. You could see the reaction.
• 1:48:24
  That he. Can't move, he just.
• 1:48:26
  You can see that he literally can't do anything to stop it.
• 1:48:29
  But he doesn't look away. Doesn't he?
• 1:48:31
  He No. He, he, he, he's there, but he
• 1:48:34
  can't move away, but he also can't stop it.
• 1:48:36
  And then it's the stunned reaction afterwards as he, you
• 1:48:39
  know, walks into the TARDIS. He really sells that.
• 1:48:41
  This is something that's affected the character.
• 1:48:45
  Moving on to Ainley, he looks great in the suit and tie.
• 1:48:47
  And yeah, we've said it before, Ainley playing chameleon,
• 1:48:51
  playing the master, I think is his best performance ever.
• 1:48:56
  I think the suit sells it. It gives him that Delgado look.
• 1:49:00
  Which? Really, really helps and and
• 1:49:02
  he's enjoying it, isn't he the oh, but I do believe you see.
• 1:49:06
  That this doctor burns slowly, it's just.
• 1:49:11
  You know what's? The most men a dramatic line is
• 1:49:13
  you will be cremated alive. I love a bit of HAMP.
• 1:49:21
  Absolutely, yeah, we've said it, Perry, such a strong start and
• 1:49:26
  it's a real shame that we don't get this version of her again.
• 1:49:28
  I think we do at the start Caves of Androsani come on to caves.
• 1:49:32
  But obviously she's I'll through that and then I think the the
• 1:49:36
  character we see of her afterwards is informed by what
• 1:49:40
  we see in caves in Andrew Zani, But we'll get to that.
• 1:49:42
  She's feisty, she's strong, She faces down the master or it's
• 1:49:45
  chameleon being the matter with her slot perfect Gillian Brown
• 1:49:49
  and Amy is brilliant in that scene, reacting against her that
• 1:49:52
  his facial expressions brilliant.
• 1:49:54
  She's she's a very much a real person and she shows a lot of
• 1:49:59
  intelligence. She realises that the box is
• 1:50:01
  chameleons control. She doesn't obviously know in
• 1:50:04
  what way, but she she realises significance.
• 1:50:07
  The sneeze is a little embarrassing, but rookie about
• 1:50:10
  that one. And yeah, Turlo, it really, I
• 1:50:12
  think it really, really works that his final story is written
• 1:50:16
  by his creator, You know, Peter Grimm.
• 1:50:18
  Peter Grimm way, isn't it? Yeah, it's a nice mystery.
• 1:50:22
  It's seeded from the start. Something spooked Turlo.
• 1:50:25
  What is it? Not sure why he has his Nisa
• 1:50:27
  moment and drops his shorts but why not?
• 1:50:32
  Yeah, that's. That's one for the.
• 1:50:35
  Mums one for the. Mums, yeah, but yeah, I've
• 1:50:39
  actually said this to Mark Strickson himself.
• 1:50:41
  But if you're running. Into the sea to save someone and
• 1:50:45
  you've got too many clothes on. You'd pull your top off.
• 1:50:47
  You wouldn't drop your tiny skimpy shorts.
• 1:50:50
  But. Hey, never mind, I think he's
• 1:50:52
  only. Got sort of a little chicken
• 1:50:53
  chest. He doesn't want to show that
• 1:50:54
  off, but he got lovely legs. Yeah, he has actually, and that
• 1:50:57
  drowning scene is really well filmed.
• 1:50:59
  I think that is again, a very real bit.
• 1:51:02
  He's so. Convincing that that that fella
• 1:51:06
  came in, didn't he, and tried to rescue her?
• 1:51:08
  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, the end of his arc
• 1:51:12
  is done. Well, it's a little bit Star
• 1:51:13
  Wars. The whole family connections are
• 1:51:16
  here, there and everywhere. But it's good.
• 1:51:19
  I love how he makes the most of having the triangle and he's
• 1:51:22
  he's found somewhere where having his misos triangle gives
• 1:51:24
  him a bit of status and he like he plays into it and it's like.
• 1:51:28
  Look at me, I've got a. Triangle, you have to do what I
• 1:51:30
  say, which is so in character. Yeah, the conflict he's actually
• 1:51:35
  very protective is a when he learns it's his brother.
• 1:51:38
  You see this? Different side to the character.
• 1:51:39
  He really is protective of Malcolm and his good.
• 1:51:42
  His goodbye. It's a good goodbye and the
• 1:51:46
  emotion is nicely underplayed by Strixon.
• 1:51:49
  For someone who can be accused of going over the top, that is
• 1:51:52
  so underplayed. It makes it quite an emotional
• 1:51:55
  goodbye. The obvious, the location
• 1:51:57
  filming, it's beautiful. It sets it out of something
• 1:52:02
  completely different from the start.
• 1:52:04
  The scenes in Tim and I've been to all these locations, a lot of
• 1:52:06
  these locations I've been, I have been to Lanzarote and they
• 1:52:08
  are amazing, amazing places. But they they do look so alien,
• 1:52:13
  so different. So the scenes in Tim and Off's
• 1:52:15
  house shots through a heat haze. There's that lovely shot of
• 1:52:20
  Perry and Howard against the waves.
• 1:52:22
  Yeah, that just. Looks watching Home and Away for
• 1:52:24
  a second, isn't it? And it's.
• 1:52:26
  Just so film it, you know, it's like from something from a film,
• 1:52:31
  not just because Howard's got his top off, but it just looks
• 1:52:35
  brilliant. The the one thing I've also said
• 1:52:37
  and it's been commented on that using Lanzarote and as the
• 1:52:40
  location on Earth, that is the one mistake.
• 1:52:42
  And it's only mentioned once that there that it is Lanzarote
• 1:52:45
  and that's in the TARDIS, which is a shame because Lanzarote
• 1:52:48
  doesn't actually look like the other Canarians.
• 1:52:51
  It could easily be a Greek island.
• 1:52:52
  They could have said any island. And it is a shame that San,
• 1:52:57
  which looks so alien, the Earth setting is the only place on
• 1:53:00
  Earth that looks like San. So it is a little bit like just
• 1:53:05
  so happy this story. As well, Yeah.
• 1:53:08
  Basically and, and the music and the soundscape that is added to
• 1:53:11
  that location. Filming really sells it as
• 1:53:13
  something alien. The the rattles the.
• 1:53:18
  That that. Really makes it.
• 1:53:23
  Sorry, I don't know where that came from.
• 1:53:26
  It's very nice to have someone else hum the sound effects for a
• 1:53:29
  change. Yeah, it just sells it as
• 1:53:31
  something so much more alien than we've seen.
• 1:53:34
  Whatever before, really so. And I just simply love and I
• 1:53:37
  haven't even gone into all the the men in shorts apart from
• 1:53:40
  Ambience, but. I'm perfectly convinced at this
• 1:53:44
  point this is the best Doctor Who story of all time.
• 1:53:47
  Absolutely, Steve was. Going to tell us otherwise 2.
• 1:53:50
  Votes to keep it, Steven, what you're going to do?
• 1:53:54
  Well. It's relevant, but what I will
• 1:53:56
  do is to say that this is a hat trick of four votes.
• 1:54:00
  No. Yeah, of course.
• 1:54:04
  I'm putting this one through. My goodness.
• 1:54:07
  It's the only story, interestingly, in the entire
• 1:54:09
  season that doesn't rely on some kind of militaristic theme or
• 1:54:13
  setting around. It's it's it's it's story.
• 1:54:19
  And it is, I think it is saddled with a lot of ingredients that
• 1:54:23
  it's got to sort of pull together.
• 1:54:26
  But I do think it just about manages to do so.
• 1:54:29
  There isn't anything left hanging, I don't think.
• 1:54:32
  There isn't anything that's sort of unnecessarily explored but
• 1:54:38
  not resolved by the end. Everything really does come
• 1:54:41
  together and that says a lot because obviously this story has
• 1:54:44
  to do so much heavy lifting. It's going to obviously, you
• 1:54:48
  know, see our Tulo bring in, bring in Perry.
• 1:54:53
  We've got the chameleon thread that sort of gets tied up at the
• 1:54:56
  end. I want to talk about that a
• 1:54:57
  little bit later as well. And even the Master sort of
• 1:55:00
  seems to have a bit of a wrap up at the end of the Davison era.
• 1:55:03
  And of course, Master has a has a big part to play over the last
• 1:55:06
  three years. So it's all all kind of like
• 1:55:08
  putting things back together and away in a box ahead of, you
• 1:55:12
  know, Caves of Andrasani and then the 6th Doctor as a bit of
• 1:55:14
  a blank slate, I guess, while introducing a new companion.
• 1:55:18
  And I think it does do all of those things really quite well.
• 1:55:22
  What this does, though, particularly well in terms of
• 1:55:24
  its script is its willingness, willingness rather to be
• 1:55:28
  ambitious and tackle that thing of religion that I think you've
• 1:55:31
  also spoken about so far. And it it does so in a more
• 1:55:35
  nuanced way than something like, say, Meg loss, for instance,
• 1:55:38
  which really does sort of present, you know, religion bad,
• 1:55:41
  science good. And that's kind of the extent of
• 1:55:43
  the the nuance that's that's examined there.
• 1:55:47
  And, you know, all of those examples and quotes and lines,
• 1:55:50
  particularly from Timonov, I think sort of demonstrate that
• 1:55:54
  it's it's beautiful and lyrical. And obviously it's production
• 1:55:58
  we've mentioned and praise to the hill.
• 1:56:01
  There are just some superb and memorable visuals that come out
• 1:56:05
  of this story. You know, I'll close my eyes and
• 1:56:07
  think about, you know, the heat haze of Lanzarote and how that
• 1:56:10
  sort of double s up the sun. I just have this incredible
• 1:56:14
  image of Anthony Amy in that black and white suit with a
• 1:56:17
  silver face paint on. And I mean, it's just so full of
• 1:56:21
  those memorable, iconic images. I guess.
• 1:56:26
  Peter Wingard is incredible, superbly stoic and forlornly
• 1:56:32
  fatalistic as Timonov. Paul, you mentioned the word,
• 1:56:36
  which I think is absolutely, you know, the word sums up that
• 1:56:41
  entire performance. It's a perfect way to describe
• 1:56:44
  him. And yes, it's tied up, I guess
• 1:56:48
  in terms of the way that religion is, is examined from
• 1:56:52
  both sides, from both perspectives.
• 1:56:54
  Not a particularly religious person myself, but I I really
• 1:56:57
  appreciated how it was willing to examine both of those
• 1:57:00
  viewpoints of the the atheist and the and the just leaded
• 1:57:06
  there. Mark Strickson though, is in
• 1:57:09
  that primary role amongst all of the targets protagonists and I
• 1:57:12
  think this is brilliant sending off of a of a companion note, a
• 1:57:17
  rare high note for the classic companion.
• 1:57:20
  I think we have his redemption entirely complete under the
• 1:57:24
  tutelage of the Doctor when he calls for the very people who
• 1:57:28
  imprisoned him to come and rescue not him 'cause he can
• 1:57:31
  just go off and start as a doctor, but his brother and the
• 1:57:35
  other poor people on Son. I think that is incredibly
• 1:57:38
  selfless and shows the extent which the character has two
• 1:57:41
  developed and moved beyond that sort of selfishness that I think
• 1:57:44
  we see certainly in season 20. But also, again, unfortunately,
• 1:57:48
  in rare instances, but in instances nonetheless, in for
• 1:57:52
  instance, the the last seconds of Part 1 of Warriors of the
• 1:57:58
  Deep where the dock has just fallen into the water and oh,
• 1:58:01
  leave it, you know, face it, he's drowned.
• 1:58:02
  Like where does that come from? And he's acting very sort of,
• 1:58:05
  you know, cowardly throughout. But no, here he is absolutely
• 1:58:10
  wonderfully sort of fleshed out. And it kind of kind of reminded
• 1:58:17
  me of the way that the doctor calls in the time was at the end
• 1:58:21
  of the war games, You know, again, knowing that he's going
• 1:58:24
  to, you know, potentially be imprisoned.
• 1:58:27
  And of course that's not quite what happens because there's
• 1:58:29
  been a regime change. But he doesn't know that.
• 1:58:31
  He doesn't know that. And he calls for the people that
• 1:58:34
  he, you know, who have effectively, you know, destroyed
• 1:58:37
  his family. I think that's that's incredibly
• 1:58:40
  touching as well. In the same way that that
• 1:58:42
  Timonov has that dignity about him, so too I think Turlo does
• 1:58:46
  here as well. Steven.
• 1:58:48
  You know, he's he's very thoughtful as you say, but he's
• 1:58:51
  still Turlo, so his last line is pure snark.
• 1:58:56
  Take care of him. He gets you into the most
• 1:58:58
  terrible trouble. It's brilliant.
• 1:59:04
  But but it's unquestionably Nicola Bryant who steals the
• 1:59:07
  show for me and my heart as the new companion, Perry Brown.
• 1:59:11
  I think she's full of charm and wit and compassion and fire and
• 1:59:14
  intelligence. I just mourn for the character
• 1:59:17
  that Perry could have been on this evidence, even if Nicola
• 1:59:22
  herself is always great and doesn't matter what dross they
• 1:59:25
  give her, she delivers, you know, an absolutely wonderful
• 1:59:28
  performance. But what the character becomes
• 1:59:31
  is just such a travesty compared to the promise that we see
• 1:59:35
  particularly in this story. And I do.
• 1:59:39
  I do wonder if we didn't have the kind of Victoria esque
• 1:59:43
  damsel in distress, which has that further encumbrance, I
• 1:59:46
  guess, of the unconsenting sex object, what kind of character
• 1:59:50
  we could have got instead. Yeah, if only they gave her more
• 1:59:53
  like this. Do you know if you if?
• 1:59:54
  You listen to her, her Big Finish stories with Colin.
• 1:59:59
  Yeah. And that offers an alternative
• 2:00:01
  peek into what they what they could have had with her being
• 2:00:07
  just hugely proactive and smart and more than a match for the
• 2:00:12
  sick Doctor. They just ignore 22 and just do
• 2:00:16
  their. Own thing.
• 2:00:17
  And it's really refreshing to see it.
• 2:00:19
  It's nice to know it was possible.
• 2:00:21
  Yeah, OK, well, I'll have to check some of those out.
• 2:00:25
  But yeah, I, I think she's the highlight for me for Planet of
• 2:00:28
  Fire. I do have a question though, and
• 2:00:30
  it concerns the Doctor's action or rather inaction at the end
• 2:00:36
  there with the Master. And I my question is, does the
• 2:00:39
  Doctor kill the Master? And what are the ethical
• 2:00:42
  implications of that? And I just want to sort of pose
• 2:00:44
  that we don't necessarily need to answer it tonight, but that
• 2:00:48
  was something that really sort of stuck out for me, not least
• 2:00:51
  because we just also see, you know, previously to that I think
• 2:00:54
  it is where the doctor effectively euthanizes
• 2:00:57
  chameleon. And it was just really
• 2:00:59
  interesting to see that followed up by effectively.
• 2:01:04
  Well, I mean it could be read that way with the Doctor through
• 2:01:07
  his inaction, which is a criticism that is levelled to
• 2:01:11
  against Davison's Doctor on by some that through his inaction
• 2:01:16
  he does actually kill the Master.
• 2:01:17
  I just wondered, OK, what do we think about that?
• 2:01:21
  I think he's. Not sure.
• 2:01:22
  I think the story's not sure. And I think he's not sure, and
• 2:01:26
  that's why he's silent in that last hardest scene.
• 2:01:29
  Like he's really what the hell have I done?
• 2:01:32
  Am I responsible for that? You know?
• 2:01:34
  But oh, sorry, there's another adventure, right?
• 2:01:36
  Well, let's go. I I see it as him being torn.
• 2:01:41
  That's why he stood there and he can't look away.
• 2:01:43
  But he also can't do anything because he's torn between the
• 2:01:46
  fact that this will actually get rid of the Master.
• 2:01:48
  He's nasty, he's done horrible things, he's destroyed half the
• 2:01:50
  universe, but he's also torn with that.
• 2:01:53
  He wants to save him in some respect, but he can't and he
• 2:01:57
  can't and he can't because of that conflict in him.
• 2:02:00
  He can't do either and he's frozen to the spot.
• 2:02:03
  That's my kind of reading of it especially.
• 2:02:05
  After that line of Would you do this to your own I?
• 2:02:09
  Bet. You do, I think what's?
• 2:02:14
  Quite nice about it is that it doesn't dwell on it.
• 2:02:17
  It is a kind of moment in action.
• 2:02:18
  What's he doing is it's a case of if I try to save him, if I
• 2:02:21
  save him, he's probably going to go off and cause more chaos and
• 2:02:24
  misery, death and destruction. But if I leave him, then that's
• 2:02:27
  murder. But instead of having long
• 2:02:30
  protracted conversations and everything, they just play it,
• 2:02:33
  and they play it really subtly as well.
• 2:02:36
  So I think it's a case of it's the greater good that the
• 2:02:40
  master. But the problem is, of course,
• 2:02:41
  that I think very quickly it was announced or revealed that he
• 2:02:45
  wasn't going to be burnt in fire and he wasn't dead and he was
• 2:02:48
  going to be back. In the next.
• 2:02:48
  Season. And you know, as always, they
• 2:02:51
  don't bother. You know, what's the explanation
• 2:02:53
  of Mark of the Rani? It's like I'm indestructible.
• 2:02:55
  That's it. That.
• 2:02:57
  But now, yes, that that is utterly like a hand wave.
• 2:03:02
  But I love him. Mark of the Rani that he turns
• 2:03:04
  on Perry and goes you could have saved me and you didn't and then
• 2:03:08
  holds a gun to her. Interesting.
• 2:03:11
  He got, you know. He burned to death, but it got
• 2:03:13
  better. Well.
• 2:03:16
  He's done it once before, hasn't he?
• 2:03:18
  I, I think what's really interesting there, and thank you
• 2:03:21
  for that. But each of us have sort of
• 2:03:23
  highlighted that there is an ambivalence in the script around
• 2:03:25
  that point. Just like by the way, there's an
• 2:03:28
  ambivalence towards this question of religion in the
• 2:03:32
  script as well, that it does allow for multiple readings.
• 2:03:34
  And I think that's really clever and subtle.
• 2:03:37
  And again, I really think Peter Grimwade is an underrated writer
• 2:03:43
  for for Peter Davison's Doctor, I don't know.
• 2:03:46
  If Davidson always responds as well as he could, so the
• 2:03:50
  interesting things he's being given are referred to, it could
• 2:03:54
  be in the end of me as a Time Lord at the end of Moldrin.
• 2:03:57
  I'm doing Episode 3 delivered with as much passion as Oh dear,
• 2:04:01
  I've got to go and do the shopping.
• 2:04:05
  Yeah, he's certainly given him interesting things to do or
• 2:04:08
  interesting things to react to. I think that's what Grimwade
• 2:04:12
  gets is that you've got 3 regulars.
• 2:04:14
  They need to be given interesting things to do in the
• 2:04:17
  script because other writers of this season seem more interested
• 2:04:22
  in the characters that they've created, and your regulars tend
• 2:04:25
  to end up on the sidelines. Grimwade is exactly.
• 2:04:28
  Turbo. Gets a lot to do.
• 2:04:30
  Perry gets a lot to do. The doctor gets a lot to do.
• 2:04:32
  They are driving the story. I think that's something
• 2:04:36
  Greenway gets. This is Doctor Who.
• 2:04:38
  The Doctor should be the star but all.
• 2:04:39
  Those words that everybody's used in this.
• 2:04:42
  I think Paul said subtle, Stephen, you said the sort of
• 2:04:46
  the ambivalence, you know, the thoughtfulness, all of that.
• 2:04:49
  That's what really makes Planet of Fire stand out this season.
• 2:04:53
  There's nothing subtle about Resurrection of the Daleks or
• 2:04:56
  Case Van Fossani or Warriors in the Deep, But I, I think it's
• 2:05:01
  the gentle nature of this and how you're right, you can sort
• 2:05:06
  of look at it from lots of different angles.
• 2:05:07
  That's what really makes it. It would have been so easy to
• 2:05:10
  just say religion is bad. The new series is doing it all
• 2:05:14
  the time at the moment. You know, it's so easy to do
• 2:05:16
  that. And yeah, he goes down a a more
• 2:05:19
  interesting path. Oh my God I hope Planet Fire
• 2:05:22
  wins this. Well, you never know what's
• 2:05:26
  going to happen. What?
• 2:05:27
  No, because we've all agreed on everything so far.
• 2:05:31
  Oh, David is yours. It's.
• 2:05:33
  It's my turn and I'm really glad I got a chance to put, not put
• 2:05:37
  the case for this one, but kind of put this one out there
• 2:05:39
  because I am so on the fence with this one.
• 2:05:43
  I've been, I've been on the fence with a lot of things, but
• 2:05:44
  this is a story that I think has a lot going for it.
• 2:05:49
  But there's also part of me that doesn't want it to win because
• 2:05:53
  it always bloody wins. And the contrary, part of May
• 2:05:58
  does not want the blow holes of Andrazani because they establish
• 2:06:02
  in the 1st 5 minutes that they're not caves, but they call
• 2:06:05
  it the Caves of Andrazani. So what do I like about it?
• 2:06:10
  What don't I like about it? And why I'm going to basically
• 2:06:12
  leave the decision of whether or not we keep a bit to you 3
• 2:06:15
  because I'm essentially a coward.
• 2:06:18
  It gets so much right. It is really well directed.
• 2:06:24
  It is, you know, the the the style of direction is just such
• 2:06:29
  a step up from and we've got some really good direction this
• 2:06:34
  season. Fiona coming does planet fire
• 2:06:36
  well, I think we'll come to resurrection of the dialects.
• 2:06:39
  But I I will say, not giving too much away that I think the
• 2:06:41
  direction on that is generally really strong.
• 2:06:43
  Peter. Moffett in The Twin Dilemma.
• 2:06:46
  That's where all the wheels kind of come off a little bit.
• 2:06:48
  And, you know, by comparison, Androzoni's elevated much higher
• 2:06:53
  because what comes afterwards is so terrible.
• 2:06:57
  It's tight. You've got almost everybody's
• 2:07:00
  giving a really good performance.
• 2:07:02
  You know, Christopher Gable is electric as sheriff's Jack.
• 2:07:06
  The scenes where he and the doctor are facing off with each
• 2:07:08
  other are so well acted and so well directed.
• 2:07:12
  When they've got that just that close up of their eyes, just
• 2:07:15
  facing off against each other, it's absolutely superb.
• 2:07:18
  Robert Holmes is clearly having fun with the script.
• 2:07:22
  It's really quite darkly comic. But it's also, again, we're
• 2:07:29
  talking, you know, there was that atmosphere in front of us,
• 2:07:31
  that sort of grim atmosphere, but there was also a little bit
• 2:07:34
  of hope towards the end. This story is just grim and
• 2:07:38
  nobody's likable at all. There is no character that
• 2:07:43
  you're rooting for. Possibly with Timon, but she
• 2:07:46
  spends a lot of time being a secretary and then only gets a
• 2:07:50
  bit sassy on a screen at the end.
• 2:07:53
  So there's it. It's quite an unlikeable cast.
• 2:07:55
  And then it leads to our third massacre of the season, and it's
• 2:08:01
  by that point watching the season through.
• 2:08:03
  It's like, oh, good, everybody's dead again.
• 2:08:06
  And there's a point because you don't really care for the
• 2:08:08
  characters because yes, they're quite darkly funny, whatever,
• 2:08:12
  but you genuinely, when starts gets killed or when Salatin gets
• 2:08:16
  kicked, you're not that bothered.
• 2:08:18
  It doesn't really have any sort of impact on you.
• 2:08:20
  Oh, David. But they are killed with such
• 2:08:23
  style. It and it's done with style and
• 2:08:27
  and the the balls they have to you know Salatin who's quite a
• 2:08:30
  major character gets killed in long shot as kind of without a
• 2:08:34
  much fanfare he's just wiped out very quickly.
• 2:08:39
  But yeah, it's a home script, so you're lucky that you've
• 2:08:44
  actually got a guest star who's a woman who's got lines, not.
• 2:08:48
  Many lines, not many. Lines and Perry's got hardly
• 2:08:51
  anything to do in the second-half apart from be scared
• 2:08:56
  and I think Nicola Bryant plays that fear really well, but
• 2:08:59
  probably maybe a little too well.
• 2:09:01
  It's that that genuine terror that she has in the 3rd and 4th
• 2:09:06
  episodes is maybe just a little bit too much.
• 2:09:08
  It's it's really grim. It's quite horrible.
• 2:09:13
  Perry is a sex object. It starts here and they run with
• 2:09:20
  it as well. So the the the beginning of the
• 2:09:22
  things that clearly they see in Andrew Zani and they go, we like
• 2:09:24
  that. Let's keep doing those things
• 2:09:26
  over and over again. Wouldn't it?
• 2:09:28
  But it's so much more. Interesting if Sharis Jacks had
• 2:09:30
  a thing for the Doctor instead, which sort of played out quite
• 2:09:33
  differently, wouldn't it? Because he's I would do pretty
• 2:09:35
  as well. And there was also something and
• 2:09:38
  I'd, I'd, I'd never picked up on it really massively until this
• 2:09:43
  time round. There are, there's a massive,
• 2:09:46
  massive couple of plot holes in the second-half, which mainly
• 2:09:50
  low holes question kind of. So it's established in the first
• 2:09:53
  couple of episodes that Sharaz Jack has got the whole of the
• 2:09:55
  military base wired for sound. He's got cameras everywhere.
• 2:09:58
  He can listen in to everything. He's also got a secret
• 2:10:02
  passageway that allows him to kind of come and go as he
• 2:10:04
  pleases because he does so twice.
• 2:10:06
  He does it at the end of Part 1. He does it again, kidnapping
• 2:10:08
  Perry in Part 3. But then the fake, the real
• 2:10:14
  salatine comes back and it's like, but Jack can see all of
• 2:10:18
  this because he's got he's got cameras all over the thing.
• 2:10:22
  So they're kind of going, Oh yes, good, hide in that room.
• 2:10:24
  But he's got cameras in the compound.
• 2:10:26
  He's got cameras in all the different rooms.
• 2:10:29
  He he's got total coverage. And also that's kind of
• 2:10:31
  forgotten. And it's like, oh, yes, we
• 2:10:33
  better keep quiet because Jack won't know.
• 2:10:35
  It was like, only if he doesn't by chance not turn on his
• 2:10:37
  camera. And so it's just one of those
• 2:10:40
  things when you go, oh, yeah, that doesn't that doesn't make
• 2:10:42
  sense. Now, why all of a sudden?
• 2:10:45
  And also Salatin would know the real one that Jack has a secret
• 2:10:50
  passage into the base. Surely he must know that.
• 2:10:53
  So in fact, he doesn't he doesn't do anything about it.
• 2:10:55
  I say, oh, by the way, Jack's got a door at the back of
• 2:10:58
  probably Celac's room. Maybe we should lock that.
• 2:11:02
  Maybe we should. So it's just once I realized
• 2:11:04
  that, I thought, oh, that that doesn't that doesn't quite work
• 2:11:08
  A. Home script with a plot hole.
• 2:11:11
  A Doctor Who. Script with a plot hole, but
• 2:11:14
  it's just one of those ones where it was just like Oh no I
• 2:11:17
  know I've seen it, I can't not see it.
• 2:11:21
  Somebody insisted on putting a giant monster into it, which
• 2:11:24
  adds absolutely nothing. I I know Graham Harper tries to
• 2:11:29
  shoot around it, but you cannot make that terrible magnet
• 2:11:34
  creature work. So I'm, I'm really, I really
• 2:11:38
  struggle with this one now. It's like, I can see why it's
• 2:11:41
  great, but there's just a part of me that just doesn't, it
• 2:11:47
  doesn't work for me. It's it the doctor is quite,
• 2:11:52
  he's not passive, but what's he doing to the story?
• 2:11:54
  The story's happening around him and kind of it's all about just
• 2:11:57
  whether he can escape and I think.
• 2:12:00
  That is the point, though. I think that absolutely is.
• 2:12:02
  The point is that he is impotent I.
• 2:12:06
  Just don't know whether or not that is that what you want from
• 2:12:08
  a doctor's finale. Probably not.
• 2:12:12
  It is, and there's an interesting notion, but maybe
• 2:12:14
  there's something that we've put onto it.
• 2:12:15
  Is the Doctor sacrificing himself to save someone he
• 2:12:18
  barely knows? Although if you go off, what big
• 2:12:19
  finish you've done? They've known each other for
• 2:12:21
  years sometime now. So I am I'm very much not sure
• 2:12:26
  what to make of it. It it is good, I can see why
• 2:12:29
  people like it, but it is nasty. It is probably a bit too nasty.
• 2:12:35
  Is Jack actually the villain of the piece?
• 2:12:39
  It is quite complex. It's actually because Morgus is
• 2:12:41
  definitely the villain. Jack is certainly in the final
• 2:12:44
  episode is a little bit more. Stotts is the villain as well.
• 2:12:48
  I suppose Timmin is the villain as well.
• 2:12:51
  And actually, they're all villains.
• 2:12:52
  They're all. Villains, I think only the
• 2:12:54
  president, the only really the president is probably, although
• 2:12:57
  he was talking about that, you know, Doctor and Perry should
• 2:12:59
  have been shot in the back, you know, so there, there is nobody
• 2:13:02
  nice in this. They're only nice people, the
• 2:13:04
  doctor and Perry. And Perry spends most of the
• 2:13:06
  story unconscious. And the president?
• 2:13:09
  Knows how corrupt Morgas is because when he spells it out Oh
• 2:13:12
  well we where you're closing down those plants where you're
• 2:13:15
  paying people in that part of the town and you're opening up
• 2:13:18
  the labour camps in that part of the town and he goes yeah, yeah,
• 2:13:21
  yeah, what I hadn't thought of that and he goes yeah, of course
• 2:13:23
  not but he still walks off and lets him get away with it so.
• 2:13:27
  It's it's a hugely corrupt society and it's one obviously
• 2:13:31
  Doctors never really returned to.
• 2:13:33
  I know that we there's something to do with Andrazani and one of
• 2:13:35
  the Moffat Christmas specials. There are looks of pain around
• 2:13:42
  the room, mention of a Moffat Christmas special.
• 2:13:45
  So I, I just don't know what to make of it.
• 2:13:47
  I just they say I'm a contrary person sometimes.
• 2:13:50
  So when the Was It, Heaven Sent and Hell Bent do really well in
• 2:13:54
  the polls, I'm like, Oh no, no, no, I don't want them to do
• 2:13:57
  well. I don't like seeing those ones
• 2:13:58
  do well. I'd rather sit and watch
• 2:13:59
  Warriors of the Deep than those. That's because I'm contrary.
• 2:14:03
  When we did Season 13, I was kind of coming in going I'm
• 2:14:05
  going to be a bit critical on this season because everybody
• 2:14:08
  else is loving it so much and I'm going I want to be a bit
• 2:14:12
  more critical on it. That's where I am with Andrew
• 2:14:14
  Zani. It's like.
• 2:14:16
  Is. It the best Doctor Who story of
• 2:14:18
  all time, as I think it was voted in one of the polls.
• 2:14:21
  It came out top. It's not for me.
• 2:14:24
  So like I said, I'm a coward. So there's there's why I
• 2:14:29
  struggle with it to try and decide.
• 2:14:31
  So I'm going to basically be neutral on the fence and I'm
• 2:14:34
  going to throw it out to the three of you.
• 2:14:38
  But first, because this is quite surprising when Joe, you sent me
• 2:14:41
  the comments for this, the comments are really interesting
• 2:14:45
  for this. They're a.
• 2:14:46
  Contrary bunch though these strictly come hamsters.
• 2:14:48
  Oh, absolutely. That's why we love them.
• 2:14:49
  Do you want to kick? Us off?
• 2:14:51
  Yes, of course. I mean, I can imagine it's going
• 2:14:53
  to be full of praise. Here we go, Jay Showery says.
• 2:14:55
  My dislike for the Keith of Andrazani wouldn't be as
• 2:14:59
  pronounced if Saywood hadn't taken all the wrong lessons and
• 2:15:02
  made this story the default template for Season 22.
• 2:15:05
  Still, it's great to have Robert Holmes back delivering the
• 2:15:07
  goods. Do I think Caves is a worthy
• 2:15:09
  story? Yes.
• 2:15:11
  But in my opinion, it doesn't deserve the mantle of best story
• 2:15:13
  ever as so many fans laud it. Graham Harper's direction is
• 2:15:17
  phenomenal. Davison turns in his best
• 2:15:19
  performance as the Doctor. Too bad it took this long for
• 2:15:23
  Five to grow a pair if somebody. 'S certainly coming from the
• 2:15:26
  same direction. There was a part of me that
• 2:15:28
  wanted to go and check dates of production paperwork when things
• 2:15:31
  were commissioned because I'm I, I'm, there's a little part of me
• 2:15:33
  going. How influential was Andrazoni in
• 2:15:35
  22? Because surely some of 22 would
• 2:15:37
  have already been at the Commission during the pipeline
• 2:15:40
  at this well. But I mean, it's not Andrazoni
• 2:15:43
  that there's three massacres this season that I think there's
• 2:15:46
  a trend where this this season is going.
• 2:15:48
  I think this is, it's more say we're trying to recreate Earth
• 2:15:52
  shock. It's just.
• 2:15:53
  Because this is the one that kind of works.
• 2:15:55
  That's why the people blame this one.
• 2:15:58
  OK, Edward Cook Reese clearly, clearly the winner of the season
• 2:16:01
  with excellent direction, but again, not a fun watch.
• 2:16:04
  Davison really shines here. There's a lot of love for
• 2:16:07
  Davidson, Tim. Carter says it's one of the best
• 2:16:10
  Who stories ever. Christopher Gable is completely
• 2:16:13
  convincing us. Jack John Normanton is also
• 2:16:16
  perfect in this. The 5th Doctor sacrifice for
• 2:16:18
  Perry makes this one of the best regenerations.
• 2:16:21
  Unfortunately, here we go. It becomes a template for season
• 2:16:24
  22 and cancellation. No one.
• 2:16:29
  Ever said that about warriors? Sort of deep, do they?
• 2:16:32
  And. Yet weirdly, that's exactly the
• 2:16:33
  same thing that's happening there.
• 2:16:36
  I'd argue it's earth shock. That's the very sort of start of
• 2:16:39
  that cycle. But yeah.
• 2:16:41
  But this is yeah. There's a Doctor Who magazine
• 2:16:45
  article years ago where they actually did the death count
• 2:16:47
  number of on screen deaths in Earth Shock and Resurrection of
• 2:16:50
  the Dialects. And they said it's more than
• 2:16:52
  things like Natural Born Killers and Terminator 2 in terms of the
• 2:16:54
  number of characters killed on screen.
• 2:16:57
  So clearly, like that's the path we want to go down.
• 2:16:59
  It's. Absurd, isn't it?
• 2:17:02
  Michael Storm. In itself, it's great.
• 2:17:06
  This should have been the end of this particular epoch of who
• 2:17:08
  though it is. Similarly, it has similarly
• 2:17:11
  nasty elements that populate the season, but in the hands of Bob
• 2:17:14
  Holmes, they work. Sharaz Jek is a tragic villain,
• 2:17:17
  albeit one in the rather ableistic Victorian Edwardian
• 2:17:20
  idea that being disfigured or visually different makes you
• 2:17:23
  bad. Elise Holmes gives him some
• 2:17:25
  solid back story, but this is where this tone should have
• 2:17:29
  ended. There was far too much pale
• 2:17:31
  limitation from here on, and for that reason, it's going in the
• 2:17:34
  bin. See.
• 2:17:35
  Again, someone else pinpointing this story as as the the
• 2:17:40
  template for the next season. Gareth says deserves the hype
• 2:17:43
  dynamic with a director who's clearly going places and a
• 2:17:46
  fierce last performance from Peter.
• 2:17:49
  Truly a classic. And what an exit.
• 2:17:51
  Ignore the lava monster. You can't ignore the lava
• 2:17:55
  monster, it's bloody huge. Jason Thompson is kays a
• 2:17:59
  classic. I'm not convinced.
• 2:18:01
  It is brilliant in many ways, but the weakness of it doesn't
• 2:18:03
  leave a very satisfied feeling behind.
• 2:18:05
  At the end, the Doctor is a passive catalyst for more mutual
• 2:18:09
  destruction of opposing factions, and at the end all he
• 2:18:11
  can do is run away. There are literally no good guys
• 2:18:15
  here. I like the contrast that this
• 2:18:16
  Doctor Who came into being because his previous incarnation
• 2:18:19
  was saving the universe, dies saving just one person.
• 2:18:22
  But I don't imagine for an instant that this was a
• 2:18:25
  deliberate choice. I think I've been this Luke's
• 2:18:29
  miss. Jenkins is very succinct.
• 2:18:31
  Kate of Andresani is the greatest final story for a
• 2:18:34
  doctor ever, hands down. Full stop.
• 2:18:38
  I'm giving a contrary point of view.
• 2:18:40
  James HB. God awful macho alpha bollocks.
• 2:18:45
  This whole myth of the 5th doctor giving up his life for
• 2:18:47
  someone he's only just met would make sense if Penny if Perry
• 2:18:51
  showed any kind of real awe or newness to time travel.
• 2:18:55
  The bat, the bats shit. It's ablest the TV remote is
• 2:19:00
  embarrassing and major plot holes.
• 2:19:02
  Bin it and bury it. Write.
• 2:19:05
  Poetry there. The batshit, the batshit.
• 2:19:09
  It's ablest. Oh, good grief, James, thank you
• 2:19:12
  very much. So Darko 24 says definite
• 2:19:15
  highlight of the era. Strong direction and atmosphere.
• 2:19:18
  Poignant end for Davison who deserve material this good.
• 2:19:21
  Far more of them. Only slight.
• 2:19:24
  I can't believe I've got to say this.
• 2:19:26
  Only slight snag is Colin's first words.
• 2:19:30
  Or a bit of a mood killer. Controversial Dave Flint Andrew
• 2:19:36
  Zani does make my top three who's unrelenting, gritty and
• 2:19:40
  travels A and travels at the pace of Stotts crashing
• 2:19:44
  spaceship to the best regeneration.
• 2:19:46
  Who wouldn't want who to be like this every time?
• 2:19:49
  And season 22 proves that it shouldn't be.
• 2:19:52
  But at this point in the show, this is outstanding.
• 2:19:54
  Keep, keep, keep. Kieran Evans Does this live up
• 2:19:58
  to legendary status? Maybe, maybe not.
• 2:20:01
  But it is a quality. But sorry, but it is quality no
• 2:20:04
  matter two of the all time best cliffhangers.
• 2:20:07
  And yes, you can believe there's nothing that's going to stop the
• 2:20:10
  this stop the Doctor this time from saving his friend.
• 2:20:14
  Oh, sorry, you got Jack Koya. This time I've got Jack.
• 2:20:16
  This time strap. In everyone, if you want to go
• 2:20:18
  make a cup of tea now, this may take a while.
• 2:20:21
  Jack Koya writes. It turns out that the I'm going
• 2:20:25
  to start that again because I've got to pace myself here.
• 2:20:27
  It turns out the writer and director of a Doctor Who's story
• 2:20:29
  can actually have an impact on whether it's good or not.
• 2:20:32
  Deservedly one of the greats, Harper and Holmes inspect their
• 2:20:36
  Saywood house style and elevate it, crafting interesting
• 2:20:39
  characters who are still as scummy as what's come before,
• 2:20:42
  but are performed and shot in an interesting fashion.
• 2:20:45
  A lot of Saywood seems like a pale Holmes invitation, so you
• 2:20:48
  might as well let the main man draw these grotesques himself.
• 2:20:52
  Credit to Nicola Bryant and Peter Davison.
• 2:20:54
  Finally, a doctrine companion that actually get on this
• 2:20:57
  friendship makes the climax much more compelling.
• 2:20:59
  This feels like a natural end point for the 5th Doctor, who
• 2:21:02
  often finds himself frustrated against intolerance and
• 2:21:05
  disbelief. Here he becomes defiant as the
• 2:21:07
  carnage unfolds. I mean, he just writes gold
• 2:21:10
  every time, doesn't he? That's why I can't take anything
• 2:21:13
  out. Daniel rules me.
• 2:21:15
  Davidson's got no fucks left to give.
• 2:21:17
  A great final story for his doctor, Marvellously directed by
• 2:21:21
  Graham. And this is all in block
• 2:21:23
  capitals here. Lots of lovely energy, Harper.
• 2:21:26
  You can't help but get swept along by the despairing
• 2:21:29
  hopelessness of it all. But also the definition of a
• 2:21:32
  classic everyone learned the wrong lessons from.
• 2:21:36
  Daniel Knight Caves is superb, but it's dark tone and Violet
• 2:21:39
  should have been a one off. What?
• 2:21:42
  This is like the third one this season.
• 2:21:45
  Unfortunately, success means it's the template for next year,
• 2:21:48
  showing Saywood really doesn't understand the program.
• 2:21:51
  Harper's excellent direction and the great performances deflect
• 2:21:53
  us from noticing the cheap design work.
• 2:21:56
  Making the Doctor a victim of circumstance would only work
• 2:21:59
  with Davidson's more human Doctor, and he works hard to
• 2:22:01
  avoid the Doctor looking weak. Holmes gives him some excellent
• 2:22:05
  scenes of Sharis Jack in Part 2, while the last episode expertly
• 2:22:09
  racks up the tension to that fantastic regeneration.
• 2:22:12
  And finally. And we'll start, sorry, we'll
• 2:22:16
  end as we started, with negative comment from Gareth Bailey.
• 2:22:21
  And he says it's a little dull, not very interesting in story or
• 2:22:26
  world, and rarely revisited by me.
• 2:22:30
  Wow. Mixed.
• 2:22:31
  To positive, I'd say mostly positive, mostly.
• 2:22:34
  Positive, but much more mixed and probably one of the more
• 2:22:37
  mixed batch of the ones we've done so far.
• 2:22:40
  Not going to give anything away for some of the other stories
• 2:22:42
  that we've got coming up. So, Keizo Andrazani, Stephen,
• 2:22:47
  which side of the fence are you coming down on?
• 2:22:51
  It's not even the best Davidson story, let alone the best ever
• 2:22:54
  Doctor Who story. I'll start with that.
• 2:22:57
  But it is great television. I would say that it is great
• 2:23:02
  television for the time, but I also think that if you look at
• 2:23:06
  the script, it's actually great television.
• 2:23:08
  If it was made today with, you know, updated special effects
• 2:23:11
  and all the rest of it. It is uncomfortable.
• 2:23:15
  Doctor Who, Terror of the Autons, this is not.
• 2:23:19
  And it's interesting that Bob Holmes writes both of those.
• 2:23:23
  But ultimately, it is rightly befitting a regeneration story
• 2:23:28
  for a Doctor Who's. And I think Steven Moffat
• 2:23:31
  mentioned has sort of said this in the past.
• 2:23:33
  I'm trying to remember the quote, but it was something
• 2:23:35
  along the lines of he's too kind for this universe and so had to
• 2:23:38
  die and ultimately did. And I think you can only do this
• 2:23:45
  as a regeneration story. The problem, as everyone says,
• 2:23:48
  is that it becomes a bit of a template.
• 2:23:50
  And I don't think it is the, uh, text for what season 22
• 2:23:54
  eventually becomes. I think there's a lot of
• 2:23:56
  influence there from Saywood's earth shock and his, you know,
• 2:24:02
  annual rewritings of it. But this does have a big part to
• 2:24:06
  play in propelling say we're down that track because
• 2:24:09
  ultimately he's he's using it as evidence to say, well, this is
• 2:24:13
  the right track to go down. But it can't be this every week.
• 2:24:18
  This is a special story. This is not ice cream for
• 2:24:21
  dinner. This has to be, you know, ice
• 2:24:23
  cream as a as a treat every now and then, particularly awful
• 2:24:28
  tasting ice cream, I admit. But nonetheless, it's a special
• 2:24:31
  occasion tree. I'm mixing my metaphors.
• 2:24:34
  Terrible. I think it does.
• 2:24:37
  Incredibly well. Awful, but it's still indulgent.
• 2:24:43
  Well, yeah, exactly. I, I think watching at this time
• 2:24:46
  around what really sort of came through to me.
• 2:24:50
  And maybe this is just again, the the time in which we're
• 2:24:54
  living in, but it's a critique of immensely powerful
• 2:25:00
  oligarchical figures and and you know, their corruption, I guess,
• 2:25:06
  and also the instruments of state that that protect those
• 2:25:10
  figures and those people and their wealth at the expense of
• 2:25:14
  literally everything and everyone else.
• 2:25:17
  It is such a stark and dark and horrible representation of the
• 2:25:22
  society, but it actually kind of seems to be a critique of our
• 2:25:27
  own. Spectrox is a believable most
• 2:25:30
  valuable substance in the universe.
• 2:25:32
  This time around the third time around that Hogans uses this
• 2:25:36
  pretense, but also storing and it's it's perfect because Holmes
• 2:25:41
  finds inspect trucks as opposed to methane or what was the other
• 2:25:46
  substance in space pirates? Remind me, Joe, what was that
• 2:25:49
  called? Argonite something.
• 2:25:52
  Argonite something stupid and and arbitrarily valuable, but
• 2:25:56
  it's valuable here because it prolongs the life of these
• 2:26:00
  incredibly decadent politicians and, you know, high society
• 2:26:04
  people that are obviously having a great time back on on on
• 2:26:07
  major. What we see instead of that high
• 2:26:09
  society is the brutalities and the realities of a horrible
• 2:26:14
  society that has built its wealth and, you know, it's it's
• 2:26:22
  great high society on, you know, a terrible situation.
• 2:26:29
  The exploitation of of, you know, the labour that we see,
• 2:26:32
  you know, for instance, in the way that he moves people from
• 2:26:35
  paid, paid work in the West W camps to the East for as slaves
• 2:26:42
  because they're unemployed is an example of that.
• 2:26:45
  But yeah, there's just this kind of incredibly 80s greedy is good
• 2:26:48
  kind of aspect to the society that is that Holmes is
• 2:26:52
  absolutely critiquing here, I think.
• 2:26:56
  And that's kind of relevant, I think, because what is this 1983
• 2:26:59
  going to 1984 when it's screened when not long have had you know
• 2:27:06
  those those figures in Reagan and Thatcher and act those
• 2:27:10
  policies. I guess that sort of lead to the
• 2:27:12
  greedy good kind of realities. And yeah, there's I don't know.
• 2:27:18
  I think that's a it's again just all there for me.
• 2:27:23
  And I think also, when you look at what the Doctor does in this,
• 2:27:28
  I think it's a valid criticism to say he can't affect any
• 2:27:32
  change. And in fact, there's three
• 2:27:34
  things that the Doctor can does, I think.
• 2:27:37
  The first is that he can't affect any change.
• 2:27:39
  The second he's just just able to escape from it, and the third
• 2:27:43
  is he dies. None of these are particularly
• 2:27:46
  heroic Doctorly things, but again, if set in the context of
• 2:27:52
  regeneration story. Then they work.
• 2:27:56
  But if they don't, then they become monstrous.
• 2:27:59
  But as a regeneration story, and I think a regeneration story
• 2:28:02
  that you know brings to a close one of my favourite doctors, I
• 2:28:06
  find it achingly, beautifully and cruelly sublime.
• 2:28:09
  I think The Caves of Andrazani is dramatically perfect because
• 2:28:14
  it breaks your heart. We've come from the sunlit
• 2:28:18
  uplands of Castro Valver, and we've found ourselves in the
• 2:28:21
  deepest, darkest caves of the madman, and this is how the 5th
• 2:28:25
  Doctor falls. I just find that so poetic and
• 2:28:29
  beautiful and stark and horrible all of the once.
• 2:28:33
  And Holmes's script is, I think, the best thing he's ever written
• 2:28:37
  for the show. This is a keep for me, Joe.
• 2:28:42
  It's. Almost not a Doctor Who story,
• 2:28:45
  right? He does so little.
• 2:28:46
  It's almost not. It's almost like poor, the poor
• 2:28:49
  5th Doctor stumbles into a place where Doctor Who cannot exist,
• 2:28:55
  where everybody is corrupt and evil and violent and unpleasant,
• 2:29:02
  and this is just not somewhere where Doctor Who typically
• 2:29:05
  exists. Last week, Planet a fire,
• 2:29:08
  Absolutely. Robots and doppelgangers and
• 2:29:11
  melodramatic masters and all of this.
• 2:29:13
  But that is kind of what gives this its power, right?
• 2:29:17
  You said there one thing he can do is survive, and within this
• 2:29:22
  awful, awful setting, the fact that he survives at all, I mean,
• 2:29:26
  that is his hero moment, right? The fact that he gets out alive
• 2:29:31
  almost. And it's only the fact that that
• 2:29:34
  what, he sort of stumbles into that nest at the start, doesn't
• 2:29:37
  it? It's not even the system itself.
• 2:29:39
  It's just an accident that takes him out.
• 2:29:41
  It's wonderful. This is truly, truly grey
• 2:29:46
  television. Yeah, I'm baffled as swiverer is
• 2:29:49
  Doctor Who or not, I think that Peter Davidson and Nicola Bryan
• 2:29:53
  are absolutely made for each other.
• 2:29:57
  But writing of this impotent is a really unusual choice, you
• 2:30:02
  know, to to make them sort of caught up in the works of a
• 2:30:04
  story like this and unable to affect any change around them.
• 2:30:08
  But the one thing that beams out is their chemistry especially.
• 2:30:13
  I love them sort of just walking towards the caves in the start
• 2:30:16
  and the witty banter that's flying back and forth.
• 2:30:18
  I love the way he steps in to protect her when Sheriff's Jacks
• 2:30:23
  is being menacing to her, how he's almost not comforting her
• 2:30:28
  as they're about to be shot to death.
• 2:30:30
  You know, like it's a really, really great dynamic.
• 2:30:33
  We should have had more of it. It's, it's one of those great
• 2:30:37
  what ifs, isn't it? What if we just had another
• 2:30:39
  season with Davison and Brian? But hey, ho, we never did.
• 2:30:45
  Graham Harper gets a lot of praise for his direction and it
• 2:30:47
  is very good. But someone said on here about
• 2:30:50
  the, the set design or the design being cheap.
• 2:30:52
  And it is. If you look at this story, it is
• 2:30:56
  what he does is he takes risks with his direction and I think
• 2:30:59
  that's what pays off here. So he does POV shots, he shoots
• 2:31:04
  in the near dark. It's that wonderful scene in the
• 2:31:05
  lift between Morgas and Timmin. And it's just that dark, that
• 2:31:09
  sort of light flashing and their faces are right close to each
• 2:31:12
  other. Like that is the cheapest set on
• 2:31:14
  the planet. He's like, how the fuck am I
• 2:31:16
  going to make this visually dynamic?
• 2:31:18
  And he does by turning the lights off.
• 2:31:20
  It's it's great. He has Morgas talking directly
• 2:31:23
  to the audience. That wonderful hologram that
• 2:31:26
  somebody walks around. Just lots of unusual things.
• 2:31:29
  The bit where, God, somebody help me out.
• 2:31:33
  What's the military man's name in this Chelac?
• 2:31:36
  The. Bit where Chelac dies.
• 2:31:39
  And he? Screams directly to camera and
• 2:31:41
  then you just cut to the mud coming along the corridor and
• 2:31:46
  then it just throws a bit of mud over a rock.
• 2:31:49
  It shouldn't work. It is the most awful, it's
• 2:31:53
  horrible. It is the most hysterical,
• 2:31:56
  horrible death you're ever going to see in Doctor Who.
• 2:31:58
  I'll never forget it. I think it's the the panic in
• 2:32:03
  Celac's performance. It really gets to me.
• 2:32:05
  This man knows he's going to die and he's going to die horribly
• 2:32:08
  and there's nothing he can do to stop it.
• 2:32:11
  And that that desperation, I think very few stories managed
• 2:32:17
  to capture the desperation that you feel in part 4 of case of
• 2:32:22
  Androsani as everything is coming to a head.
• 2:32:25
  Everybody is dying. Bullets are flying, spaceships
• 2:32:29
  are crashing. You know, Perry is dying.
• 2:32:32
  The Doctor desperately needs to get the bats milk, but it's very
• 2:32:36
  rare in Doctor Who that you have a director that can come in and
• 2:32:39
  sell that and put it on the screen as as desperate as it
• 2:32:43
  needs to be. Weber fear for I think does it
• 2:32:46
  with the Yeti attack. Inferno 6 does it as the world's
• 2:32:50
  going to hell. But you look across Doctor Who,
• 2:32:53
  there are very few times where this sort of stuff is is cursor.
• 2:32:57
  Fenrick 4, I think does it as well.
• 2:32:59
  Really, really well. Yeah.
• 2:33:02
  So that that last episode, I think it's one of the single
• 2:33:04
  best episodes of Doctor Who because of the pace of it,
• 2:33:07
  because of the momentum of it, because the fact it builds and
• 2:33:10
  builds and builds and then you get a regeneration at the end.
• 2:33:14
  So it's like, forgive me, It's like the best wank you've ever
• 2:33:19
  had in your life, topped off by the best orgasm ever.
• 2:33:22
  You know? My God.
• 2:33:24
  Amazing. No, I I really love this.
• 2:33:27
  I certainly wouldn't want Doctor Who to be like this all the
• 2:33:30
  time. Weirdly, you do, you sleep.
• 2:33:31
  And you said about the Doctor being heroic or not being heroic
• 2:33:36
  because the story doesn't let him.
• 2:33:37
  And yet he's written with more hero lines and jokes and things
• 2:33:43
  than he ever has been before. He's lied to his.
• 2:33:46
  Well done, Sir. I suppose you started an unrest.
• 2:33:49
  You know, he's really well written in this.
• 2:33:53
  Like in. Front of you we we glimpse
• 2:33:55
  Davison. Yeah, and there's David Davidson
• 2:33:58
  going, my God, there's a director that's actually making
• 2:34:00
  me move and actually do my do my job for once.
• 2:34:03
  If it had been like this all the time, you know, look what we
• 2:34:06
  could have gone. It does deserve its accolades.
• 2:34:09
  It is stylish as hell. It's really dramatic.
• 2:34:13
  It's quite, quite horrible to watch.
• 2:34:15
  I'm never really in the mood to watch Case of Antrosani because
• 2:34:19
  this ain't going to cheer you up.
• 2:34:20
  But every time I watch it, I'm convinced it's one of the best
• 2:34:23
  bits of Doctor Whoever. So yeah, I would definitely put
• 2:34:25
  it through Paul are. We going to be another 3 for
• 2:34:27
  three well. Suspense for a moment longer
• 2:34:30
  while I look at what 13 year old Paul said.
• 2:34:35
  Case of Antrosani. Another very good story.
• 2:34:38
  I'm glad to see Robert Holmes back.
• 2:34:41
  I hope he writes more soon. I liked Shara's Jack space 9 out
• 2:34:45
  of 10, did you? Write capture reviews for season
• 2:34:48
  22 as well, no. Well, if I did, I never got them
• 2:34:52
  back. Never know.
• 2:34:53
  What you thought of the two doctors and when he came back
• 2:34:55
  again, Well. No, yes, So maybe maybe J&T did
• 2:34:59
  read my comment. You know young 13 year old Paul
• 2:35:01
  from Torquay, you said he likes all these things, so let's make
• 2:35:04
  season 22 based on that. Or maybe not.
• 2:35:07
  What do I think now? I came to this today with every
• 2:35:13
  intention of doing exactly what David just did.
• 2:35:17
  Being the one. Being the one to put it forward
• 2:35:19
  and let everyone else decide and you're.
• 2:35:22
  Not sure I'm no. I would have said.
• 2:35:27
  Absolutely. It's brilliant and I watched it
• 2:35:30
  this time and I couldn't decide it.
• 2:35:33
  You've said it all, it is very, very good.
• 2:35:39
  Is it Doctor Who? That's what I was struggling
• 2:35:42
  with watching it this time. Does it have that element of fun
• 2:35:48
  that I want in my Doctor Who? And no, it doesn't.
• 2:35:51
  It's relentlessly grim, relentlessly.
• 2:35:54
  But then I thought that, and I thought, that's kind of true.
• 2:35:57
  It's a kind of true of all the the Doctor Who stories that held
• 2:36:00
  up as the classics. Definitely.
• 2:36:03
  Are so. Untypical of Doctor Who, Genesis
• 2:36:06
  of the Daleks is the same. It's.
• 2:36:08
  Miserable. Oh, that's as miserable as fuck.
• 2:36:10
  I know. I at least I enjoy in Genesis,
• 2:36:14
  but it is grim Inferno. Even you know they've all got
• 2:36:19
  that. You know why?
• 2:36:20
  It is Paul if, if. Doctor Who was like this every
• 2:36:22
  time. I wouldn't be watching it.
• 2:36:24
  He's. Fans of Doctor Who, and I don't
• 2:36:26
  mean everybody, but I do mean probably more than half the
• 2:36:30
  majority, don't want to be embarrassed by Doctor Who.
• 2:36:33
  Exactly and. Silly.
• 2:36:35
  They want it to be something that you can show your mates or
• 2:36:37
  your mother, you know? Then that's exactly I remember.
• 2:36:42
  You say that I remember watching.
• 2:36:44
  I can clearly remember watching this first time it went out as a
• 2:36:47
  kid, especially the part three and four, probably mostly four,
• 2:36:51
  and watching Doctor Who in my house, if my mum, my dad
• 2:36:56
  watching it, Mum would sit quietly, my dad would guffle all
• 2:36:59
  the way through. Oh, look at that.
• 2:37:02
  Oh, that's ridiculous. He.
• 2:37:04
  Sat silently through the latter parts of cave Spandrazzani
• 2:37:08
  engrossed. And I.
• 2:37:11
  Always remember that thinking. Oh my God, he's he's not said a
• 2:37:15
  word. So it is damn good television,
• 2:37:20
  is it not? Who?
• 2:37:22
  I'm still flipping backwards and forwards.
• 2:37:26
  I've made several notes to try and decide.
• 2:37:29
  I think the performances and direction are overcoming a cheap
• 2:37:33
  production. We've said this some of those
• 2:37:35
  sets, wouldn't they? Some.
• 2:37:38
  Of the sets are pretty much exactly the same as you get in
• 2:37:39
  Twin Dilemma. That.
• 2:37:41
  President's no, Sorry, Morgan's office and the the city skyline
• 2:37:45
  behind it is equally as bad as anything in Twin Dilemma.
• 2:37:49
  But you don't You forgive it because of what's going on and
• 2:37:51
  because of the performances that they're being given.
• 2:37:54
  Nicola Bryan is brilliant in it. She plays the ill bit so well.
• 2:37:58
  And I think Peter Davidson worked really well with just one
• 2:38:00
  companion. It's something it's always, you
• 2:38:02
  know, only. Time, right?
• 2:38:04
  The only time. We've sort almost got it in Arc
• 2:38:08
  of Infinity when TV was so sad. But that's the one thing I like
• 2:38:15
  about Arc of Infinity was the pairing of just the Doctor and
• 2:38:18
  Nyssa for the better part of the story.
• 2:38:20
  That's what worked. So yeah, we get that dynamic in
• 2:38:23
  and I think it really works. I think the episode 1
• 2:38:26
  cliffhanger is nasty and equally on par with what was it, part 3A
• 2:38:32
  Deadly Assassin that everyone sites.
• 2:38:34
  The drowning scene. I think the machine gun, I think
• 2:38:38
  that's I think that's where I think, and I think the use of
• 2:38:41
  real guns in this is one of those steps.
• 2:38:45
  Is it a step too far? Does it make it too real?
• 2:38:51
  You know. Bullets rather than lasers.
• 2:38:55
  They will go onto the. Rest of today.
• 2:38:56
  Well. All the all the knives or any of
• 2:38:59
  it. Oh yeah.
• 2:39:00
  Yeah, as well it is. Too real.
• 2:39:01
  With that cliffhanger, yeah, I do agree with you.
• 2:39:03
  It is really unpleasant. But the.
• 2:39:07
  First time I watched it, you remember they did the Androsini
• 2:39:10
  repeat. The first time I watched it I
• 2:39:12
  was just gripped with the question, how the hell are they
• 2:39:16
  going to get out of this one? And so few Doctor Who
• 2:39:19
  cliffhangers did that to me. I couldn't figure it out.
• 2:39:23
  No, I, I mean, I, yeah, I remember seeing it as a kid and
• 2:39:26
  it, yeah, obviously it was. Oh my.
• 2:39:27
  God, Oh my God, it's not going to.
• 2:39:29
  Regenerate now is it? Yeah, but and then you've you've
• 2:39:33
  you've also touched on the other problem I have with it is that
• 2:39:35
  the Doctor is the victim all the way through this.
• 2:39:39
  He's impotent. He does nothing to affect.
• 2:39:43
  The. Actions of the of the OR the
• 2:39:45
  situations around him. In fact, the only effect he
• 2:39:49
  really has. Is just by.
• 2:39:51
  Virtue of being an alien, he can he can escape from Sharis Jack's
• 2:39:55
  base and therefore release Salatin and get that bit of plot
• 2:39:58
  moving by him, his presence spooking Morgus into coming to
• 2:40:04
  Anderson. So that's the only way he
• 2:40:05
  affects the story. Everything else is reacting and
• 2:40:09
  impotent is the word he used. And that's exactly the word I
• 2:40:12
  used. He's so good.
• 2:40:14
  And it's exciting and it's going through anyway, isn't it?
• 2:40:17
  So it doesn't really matter. Imagine Colin in this one.
• 2:40:21
  I just can't imagine Colin being this impotent.
• 2:40:24
  He'd be going around beating them all up, wouldn't he?
• 2:40:26
  Well. Yes, yes, the other, the other
• 2:40:28
  thing. And yeah, the other thing is
• 2:40:31
  what everyone said that it's the template for season 22.
• 2:40:34
  The but it's like someone's watched this and taken all the
• 2:40:37
  wrong lessons from it, if you know what I mean.
• 2:40:41
  They feel, Oh, Perry's a weak character.
• 2:40:43
  No, she's not. She's she's a strong character
• 2:40:46
  who is ill. She's reacting naturally.
• 2:40:49
  Sharajek is lusting after Perry. She's he's not lusting after
• 2:40:52
  her. He is admiring her beauty.
• 2:40:55
  Yes, that's still creepy for her, but he's admiring a some a
• 2:41:00
  creature, but he's not it's not sexual with him.
• 2:41:02
  I don't think like it becomes in season 22.
• 2:41:07
  I mean, if he's based on the Phantom of the Opera, that
• 2:41:10
  character was not a sexual cat. He he he was in love with
• 2:41:16
  Christine because of the beauty of her voice and cherish Jack
• 2:41:20
  with Perry, it's her natural beauty that he like it.
• 2:41:23
  It's not that he wants to jump her or anything like that, but
• 2:41:26
  that's a lesson that seems to get taken from it.
• 2:41:28
  And the real bullets is a lesson that seems to get taken from it.
• 2:41:31
  And the disfigured faces. Is a lesson.
• 2:41:34
  That gets taken from it, but each time we've diminishing
• 2:41:38
  returns, obviously. But we can't blame this story
• 2:41:41
  for what? For what comes after it and what
• 2:41:43
  it does. Yeah, I'm going to agree.
• 2:41:44
  It has to go through. But I do.
• 2:41:47
  Have reservations, strong reservations about it.
• 2:41:51
  Another unanimous verdict, and this is are.
• 2:41:54
  We going to be 6 for six here. Can I just?
• 2:41:57
  Take. You all.
• 2:41:57
  To task for a second please, and everyone in the comments as well
• 2:42:01
  because it does seem to be. Well, this is great, but season
• 2:42:05
  22 is shit. I really like season 22, all
• 2:42:10
  right. And I think it's a way more
• 2:42:12
  accomplished than people give it credit for.
• 2:42:15
  And I think some of the lessons, some of the lessons they took
• 2:42:19
  from here, they did better in 22 at times.
• 2:42:22
  I think the massacre in the revelation of the Daleks is
• 2:42:26
  absolutely phenomenal. So there.
• 2:42:31
  I just I just. Wanted to say that it is anti
• 2:42:34
  season 22 propaganda that's going out today.
• 2:42:37
  I absolutely. Love season 22 as well when I
• 2:42:39
  was a kid, not quite as much because by that time I've got
• 2:42:43
  started reading fanzines and had all the fan wisdom coming at me
• 2:42:47
  all the time so telling me how I should feel about stuff.
• 2:42:49
  But I still enjoyed it. You look like.
• 2:42:51
  I'm out of intelligence and distinction, you know, Paul.
• 2:42:54
  Oh, thank you. I'm a big fan of 22.
• 2:42:57
  I think 22 has got a lot going for it as well.
• 2:43:02
  I think there are some of the things that it does start here
• 2:43:04
  and started before this season as well.
• 2:43:07
  It's not let's take what from Andrew Zani, what works.
• 2:43:10
  It's Saywood going this is what I want Doctor Who to be and I
• 2:43:14
  think the ultimate expression of that is revelation of the
• 2:43:16
  dialects where the doctors not bloody in it half the time.
• 2:43:20
  I just. Can't write off a season as
• 2:43:21
  Scott, Jacqueline Pearce, Eleanor Bron and oh, come on.
• 2:43:26
  OK, Omara. I mean, Jesus Christ, come on
• 2:43:28
  now. Oh, Darrow.
• 2:43:30
  Yeah. Anyway.
• 2:43:32
  Sorry. About that, right?
• 2:43:33
  We are now past the halfway point, so I think it's time that
• 2:43:37
  we hear the second batch of listener comments.
• 2:43:39
  So I'm going to hand that over to Paul and Stephen, OK?
• 2:43:44
  We've got Jack Koya. Hello, Jack.
• 2:43:46
  If you look closely, you may begin to see the growing
• 2:43:49
  influence of Eric Saywood. Earth Shock is one of the most
• 2:43:52
  influential influential Doctor Who stories.
• 2:43:55
  We see successes and failures mutate across Warriors
• 2:43:58
  Resurrection and Caves of Andrazani.
• 2:44:01
  Future is nice. Strap yourselves in, Miss.
• 2:44:03
  Hogben, my favorite 5th Doctor series by a country mile.
• 2:44:08
  It's Peter. Sorry, my favorite 5th Doctor
• 2:44:09
  series. By country mile.
• 2:44:11
  It's Peter's strongest season. Daleks, Planet of Fire and Caves
• 2:44:15
  are such a strong run of stories.
• 2:44:16
  What's not to love? Make me.
• 2:44:18
  An offer says one of the reasons this gets away with being so
• 2:44:22
  dire is that it's a Davison season and not a column one.
• 2:44:28
  Melvin Pena. One of the best and bleakest
• 2:44:31
  seasons. A classic who those darker hues
• 2:44:34
  suit. Davison, who's challenged in
• 2:44:36
  every story, nearly loses Turlo to madness in Frontios.
• 2:44:40
  Tegan flees in despair and resurrection, and he only barely
• 2:44:43
  gets Perry out of Andrazani. Nothing beige about that roller
• 2:44:47
  coaster, The wonderful. Brendan Jones Hello Brendan.
• 2:44:49
  Between a dodgy start and end, we have 5 terrific stories with
• 2:44:53
  mature writing, great SF themes and memorable exits that take
• 2:44:57
  advantage of the actor's talents.
• 2:44:59
  Frontios is possibly the best use of this TARDIS team.
• 2:45:03
  Warriors is a pretty great script, let down by design and
• 2:45:06
  direction. I'll have words with you later,
• 2:45:08
  Brendan. Is he suggesting, oh Brendan,
• 2:45:13
  that Resurrection of the Daleks is maturely written?
• 2:45:18
  We'll. Get into that.
• 2:45:19
  We'll get into that with. You later.
• 2:45:21
  Brendan Edward Cook. Reese season 21, the first thing
• 2:45:25
  that comes to mind is that it's bleak as hell, topped and tailed
• 2:45:29
  by clunkers. You can really see the struggles
• 2:45:31
  there. Here the lovely.
• 2:45:33
  Lucy McCall says I love this season.
• 2:45:35
  I would. It has my favorite doctor in it.
• 2:45:37
  He sounds like a very wise woman.
• 2:45:39
  You know, do. You know if you.
• 2:45:40
  Notice every time somebody mentions her name, it's the
• 2:45:42
  lovely, the gorgeous, the wonderful.
• 2:45:44
  I wish people did that with my name.
• 2:45:48
  Spider Man 72 starts poorly but ends on a high with Andrazani
• 2:45:53
  awakening in frontier semi 2 highlights from the season.
• 2:45:56
  Both tegan and turlo get effective exits, and Perry is
• 2:45:59
  written at her best in her opening two stories.
• 2:46:02
  Matt Lee. Newby, I'm fairly sure I've left
• 2:46:05
  comments on each story previously, if not in shrug
• 2:46:08
  emoji, but I'll say. But I'll just say that each of
• 2:46:12
  Davidson's stories from Season 21 has the same preoccupation
• 2:46:15
  with war, unsurprising for a series made in 1983 when Reagan
• 2:46:19
  was pushing his Star Wars agenda and the Cold War seemed to be at
• 2:46:22
  a tipping point when Israel was bombing Lebanon and the IRA were
• 2:46:25
  at the height of their attacks on British soil.
• 2:46:28
  I'm going to get into that with one of the stories coming up,
• 2:46:30
  actually. Matt, thank you, Jason.
• 2:46:32
  Thompson, the last comment is Sayward brings his vision of
• 2:46:36
  Doctor Who to the fore and makes it abundantly clear he sees the
• 2:46:39
  show very differently to anyone else who's making it.
• 2:46:42
  But feels like. It's being made by people taking
• 2:46:44
  it all far too seriously, forgetting the show should be
• 2:46:47
  fun. Well, we have two stories left.
• 2:46:53
  Stephen, what's your second choice?
• 2:46:56
  See, I didn't. Want to offer this one.
• 2:46:59
  I wanted to be voting on this one, but I I have no choice I
• 2:47:02
  feel because I do want to champion the Awakening.
• 2:47:06
  We spoke earlier about the Planet of Fire being a bit of a
• 2:47:09
  neglected gem, and I think that's true.
• 2:47:12
  But I think the neglected gem of season 21 is The Awakening.
• 2:47:16
  I think it finally gets the two parters right.
• 2:47:20
  It borrows heavily from the demons, which is no bad thing,
• 2:47:23
  and I think it tells a story that is far more interesting
• 2:47:29
  than perhaps a literal reading of the text may suggest.
• 2:47:35
  I want to go to the Black Archive on this.
• 2:47:40
  I forget who wrote who wrote it actually sort of suggest that
• 2:47:44
  it's a cross between 1970s folk horror.
• 2:47:46
  So things like The Wicker Man, Children of the Stone, The Stone
• 2:47:50
  Tape and also absolutely The Demons.
• 2:47:53
  And also the 1980s and also into the 90s, I guess, genre of
• 2:47:57
  heritage drama, particularly films like Brideshead Revisited,
• 2:48:01
  Howard's End and also the BB CS own wildly successful adaptation
• 2:48:06
  of Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.
• 2:48:10
  And all of this sort of traded on a vision of Britain's past
• 2:48:13
  and a nostalgia, I think for a golden age that obviously never
• 2:48:16
  was. And it's actually a very
• 2:48:19
  powerful conservativism, I think that sort of presents a British
• 2:48:25
  culture or an English culture from from the past.
• 2:48:29
  And it, it doesn't doesn't look at itself in any real
• 2:48:32
  criticality instead of sort of trades on that theme park
• 2:48:36
  history of it of, of, of England, I think.
• 2:48:39
  And I think this goes hand in hand with a kind of resurgence
• 2:48:43
  at the time in British nationalism off the back of
• 2:48:45
  particularly the Falklands wall, Although I would suggest it's
• 2:48:48
  probably building before that time.
• 2:48:50
  There's a headline in the sun that screams the empire will
• 2:48:53
  strike back. It's like Britain is looking for
• 2:48:56
  a fight and it's going to it's going to find it and it finds it
• 2:48:59
  in in the Falklands War. And it is a massive turning
• 2:49:02
  point for Thatcher and her government.
• 2:49:05
  They do. They're not doing well in the
• 2:49:07
  polls up to that point. But obviously as a result of the
• 2:49:12
  Falklands, there's an enormous Russian wave of patriotism.
• 2:49:17
  And he casts a long shadow, I think, culturally speaking, at
• 2:49:20
  least over the rest of the 1980s in the UK, we see things like
• 2:49:25
  the England Argentina match of 1986 in in the Mexico World Cup
• 2:49:30
  is played against that that backdrop.
• 2:49:33
  But it's also, I think I'll go, I'll go into, I think most of
• 2:49:38
  this when Joe, you and I with the supremely smart Jack Coyer,
• 2:49:43
  look at this story for a hamster commentary.
• 2:49:45
  But I want you to consider this parallel.
• 2:49:49
  A charismatic yet heartless leader brings their people into
• 2:49:54
  a bloodlust that feeds on itself until it explodes in the
• 2:49:58
  violence of war and conflict. So for Sir George Hutchinson,
• 2:50:02
  Margaret Thatcher, for the otherwise good people of Little
• 2:50:05
  Hodcum, refer to the general populace of the United Kingdom.
• 2:50:10
  For the malice, read the tabloid Red Red Tops of Fleet Street.
• 2:50:15
  There's an. Incredible.
• 2:50:17
  Excuse me, there's an. Incredible.
• 2:50:19
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 2:50:20
  That's what the Malice is doing, and that's what the Fleet St.
• 2:50:23
  tabloids were doing. I think.
• 2:50:26
  I can't say that Pringle intends this, and I don't think that's a
• 2:50:30
  genuine, genuine, genuinely interesting enough question.
• 2:50:33
  I think what you're looking at is sort of confluence of context
• 2:50:37
  at play here and whether there's an intent on the part of
• 2:50:42
  Pringle. I just, I just don't think is
• 2:50:43
  relevant. Instead, it's that these two
• 2:50:46
  events, fictional and real, coincide.
• 2:50:50
  And that's what makes The Awakening truly interesting for
• 2:50:54
  me as an absolute microcosm for what's happening in the UK in
• 2:50:59
  the early 80s and that rise of militarism, which we actually
• 2:51:02
  see of course, throughout. I think it's four of these
• 2:51:06
  stories, four or five of these, five of these stories actually,
• 2:51:09
  which is super interesting. So this I think, is far more
• 2:51:16
  intelligent and has something more to say than just the sort
• 2:51:19
  of rather, you know, abrupt to part of that many people take it
• 2:51:24
  to be. There's a bit of a nothing.
• 2:51:26
  We stop off and little hot can have some tea and then we're off
• 2:51:28
  on our way. In the meantime, a church blows
• 2:51:30
  up and people do cosplay. It's it's a bit more than thou,
• 2:51:34
  I would suggest. And what I would like to do is
• 2:51:37
  hopefully change your minds if you are of that persuasion, the
• 2:51:40
  three of you, so we can push this through because I really do
• 2:51:43
  think this is a smart, clever and really well produced story
• 2:51:48
  as well. We've talked about the context
• 2:51:50
  and perhaps a little bit about the script, but if we have a
• 2:51:53
  look at Mark Owen Morris's direction, it's particularly the
• 2:51:58
  the locations. It's not film work, is it?
• 2:52:01
  It's on videotape, I believe. Or is it?
• 2:52:04
  On film, no. It's.
• 2:52:05
  Film it's. Film.
• 2:52:06
  OK. I can never tell the difference.
• 2:52:09
  It looks gorgeous. It looks beautiful.
• 2:52:12
  I think we have, you know, it's so much of, of what Doctor Who
• 2:52:17
  is in my imagination. I guess growing up in Australia,
• 2:52:20
  we've seen those English countryside locations in the
• 2:52:24
  height of summer and thinking England is like that every day
• 2:52:26
  because that's what Australia is like every day.
• 2:52:28
  But there's some, you know, the great deal of charm about that.
• 2:52:32
  And it looks like people, you know, all of the actors in the
• 2:52:36
  production team are enjoying what they're making.
• 2:52:38
  And I think that comes across in the screen.
• 2:52:42
  And the performances are wonderful.
• 2:52:45
  I'm sorry, I've forgotten his name, but Sir George Hudson,
• 2:52:48
  otherwise known as Doctor Fendelman.
• 2:52:52
  Dennis Dennis Lil. Of course it is Dennis Lil.
• 2:52:55
  I just think he's a hurt. And yeah, I I just, I think this
• 2:53:00
  is a lovely, lovely, lovely little piece of Davison that we
• 2:53:05
  Davison's doctor that we need to put through.
• 2:53:08
  Please, gentlemen, please consider.
• 2:53:10
  Let's go. To the comments.
• 2:53:12
  Jason Thompson says The Awakening is decent enough, even
• 2:53:16
  if the BBC micro CGI blobs around a vomiting Malice
• 2:53:20
  clinging to the TARDIS wall is hardly the height of visual
• 2:53:24
  excellence, thematically following nicely from the
• 2:53:28
  previous story with war simulations bleeding into the
• 2:53:31
  real thing with horrific results.
• 2:53:36
  Gareth says the awakening is a treat if a bit diet demons well
• 2:53:40
  is a charming pseudo companion. Polly James and Denis L are
• 2:53:44
  great. The gem diet.
• 2:53:46
  Demons Jack Queer you prepared everybody a really engaging
• 2:53:51
  story. The best Davison 2 parter by a
• 2:53:53
  mile. I think there's a danger of the
• 2:53:56
  small C conversation sneaking in with the 5th Doctor,
• 2:53:59
  particularly in the other historicals.
• 2:54:02
  However, here he's on blistering form, cutting through the Wicker
• 2:54:05
  Man eeriness of little Hogcomb and his flippant improvisational
• 2:54:09
  nature works well matched with Jane and Will.
• 2:54:12
  The location filming is gorgeous and we are thrown from the
• 2:54:15
  beginning by the pseudo pseudo historical challenging viewer
• 2:54:19
  expectations of these story structures.
• 2:54:22
  Do you shall breathe. Brilliant.
• 2:54:26
  Pause. Breathe.
• 2:54:28
  Jay Shahree wrote to say I wish The Awakening had me given a
• 2:54:31
  third episode because it deserves more room to breathe
• 2:54:33
  and develop. Once again, we meet another
• 2:54:35
  member of Tegan's seemingly cursed family, this time her
• 2:54:38
  grandfather, who spends most of his time locked up with Taylor.
• 2:54:41
  Yet again, the regular companions are sidelined, while
• 2:54:44
  the doctor instead meets teams up with Jane Hampton and Will
• 2:54:47
  Chandler. Why does Saywood keep doing
• 2:54:49
  this? The malice is impressive in both
• 2:54:51
  forms, and Barry Newbury's swan song is triumphant.
• 2:54:54
  Keep it. James Hadwin Bennett says a
• 2:54:57
  story that contains scenes that I still find disturbing.
• 2:55:01
  The malice is amazing in all of its form.
• 2:55:03
  We have the possibility of missing stories with 5th and
• 2:55:06
  Will and a bunch of rich white guys want to have another Civil
• 2:55:10
  War keep. Paul Dunn says The Awakening is
• 2:55:13
  the little gem this season. Short and concise and doesn't
• 2:55:16
  overstay it's welcome. Great production, sets and
• 2:55:19
  costumes are superb, Direction great with lovely film and model
• 2:55:22
  work. Porotelo suffers from little to
• 2:55:25
  do, though, again. Well done for jumping over Dave
• 2:55:28
  Flint's Warriors. That a deep comment that I put
• 2:55:31
  in there. Sorry about that.
• 2:55:34
  Luke Sims Jenkins says. The Awakening is a nice little
• 2:55:36
  two passer where the crew meet a bunch of nerds who take laughing
• 2:55:40
  a little too seriously. The best of the two-part
• 2:55:43
  stories. That's not much competition when
• 2:55:46
  the other two-part stories of Black Orchid and King's Demons.
• 2:55:50
  I love. Black orchid somebody.
• 2:55:52
  Had to, Tim Carter wrote to say. Great setting that's completely
• 2:55:56
  different to the usual 5th Doctor stories.
• 2:55:58
  Polly James and Peter Davidson are great together.
• 2:56:00
  Another liver bird who should have been a companion.
• 2:56:02
  Visually beautiful and the two parts doesn't outstay it's
• 2:56:05
  welcome. She's so fucking annoying.
• 2:56:08
  Polly shames in this how anyone wants her to stay along.
• 2:56:12
  I said the Potter guys. Oh, she's.
• 2:56:14
  So. Hysterical, Michael Storm says.
• 2:56:17
  Ancient folksy horror with a sci-fi twist set in a quaint
• 2:56:20
  English village. This ought to push my buttons,
• 2:56:23
  but for some reason it just doesn't stick the landing for
• 2:56:26
  me. It feels a bit HTV children's
• 2:56:28
  drama at some points. Disappointing, but not terrible.
• 2:56:33
  Kieran Evans says the nostalgia from the VHS double pack is high
• 2:56:36
  for me. But I love the atmosphere of
• 2:56:38
  this not historical tight writing and the location filming
• 2:56:41
  looks wonderful. The houses at my middle school,
• 2:56:43
  my part of the Midlands was three tier, was named after the
• 2:56:46
  battles in the English Civil War. 3 tier, he says.
• 2:56:51
  Daniel Knight an ultimate comment here.
• 2:56:53
  I've always liked the Awakening. It's a tight 2 parter, well
• 2:56:56
  directed with good production values, excellent location work
• 2:57:00
  and strongest performances. Although Polly James off Thank
• 2:57:03
  you. Daniel is a bit shrill.
• 2:57:06
  The malice looks suitably creepy as a face on the wall, but not
• 2:57:09
  so much as a puppet vomiting green slime.
• 2:57:13
  And finally, Edward Cook Reese says.
• 2:57:15
  Nice little 2 parter that doesn't stay it's welcome.
• 2:57:18
  Although what was it all about such?
• 2:57:21
  Praise for the awakening. Praise.
• 2:57:23
  For the welcome praise, for the welcoming, I can't even say
• 2:57:27
  anything now. Doing this right.
• 2:57:30
  OK, Paul, the awakening, are we going to keep our almost clean
• 2:57:35
  sheet? 13 year old me said a very good
• 2:57:39
  story. A pity it was only two episodes.
• 2:57:41
  The malice was great. 9 out of 10 another. 9:00 So this.
• 2:57:46
  So that's scored the same. It's scored the same as Frontios
• 2:57:50
  and Caves van Gazzani and more the planet of fire.
• 2:57:54
  It looks lovely. I, I personally take it's a very
• 2:57:56
  slight story. It's it's only got that single
• 2:57:59
  cliffhanger which is a little bit limp.
• 2:58:01
  Because it's. Which is a shame when you only
• 2:58:03
  have the one, but I find it quite well structured.
• 2:58:08
  Part 1 sets up everything we need to know and then Part 2
• 2:58:11
  delivers all the actions such as it is and the resolution.
• 2:58:14
  But it also does that recurring thing of this era.
• 2:58:16
  We've mentioned this replacing the 5th Doctor's companions with
• 2:58:19
  one story substitutes who then have a better chemistry with
• 2:58:23
  him. I mean, the Doctor literally
• 2:58:25
  sends Tegan and Turlo back to the TARDIS saying he'll take
• 2:58:27
  Will with him within minutes of meeting.
• 2:58:30
  Come on, Will, Quite. We haven't got to take that
• 2:58:33
  there. With us.
• 2:58:35
  Obviously, narratively that's to split them up for their own
• 2:58:37
  strands of plot, but it does smack of not wanting to come
• 2:58:39
  along. But it does give us that lovely
• 2:58:41
  stuff with Jane I, who I do like, and Will, who comes across
• 2:58:45
  as a more likable version of Adric.
• 2:58:47
  Maybe that's why the doctor takes to him, I don't know.
• 2:58:50
  And I have an issue with the character as Sergeant Willow
• 2:58:53
  because it's made clear that Sir George is under the influence of
• 2:58:57
  the malice, but the implication seems to be that the other men
• 2:59:01
  aren't and they're just being whipped up.
• 2:59:03
  Looks like Colonel Woolsey is clearly just going along with it
• 2:59:06
  and he's saying, oh, hang on, calm down, calm down, mate here
• 2:59:09
  and there. But Willow is actually pretty
• 2:59:13
  sadistic and clearly enjoying what he's doing, even
• 2:59:16
  threatening to strip Tegan. Is he a bad one anyway?
• 2:59:21
  Is is he is? I don't know, I just, I have a
• 2:59:24
  bit bit troubled by that, that character and that and then at
• 2:59:28
  the end it's all forgiven. Yeah, it's.
• 2:59:31
  So odd, isn't it? No, no recriminations.
• 2:59:33
  No recriminations. No.
• 2:59:35
  If I was Tegan I'd be saying he wanted to fucking burn me.
• 2:59:37
  All right in a minute. He has to burn me.
• 2:59:39
  He wouldn't strip me then burn me.
• 2:59:42
  However, I do really enjoy this and so there are no
• 2:59:46
  recriminations from me and I would like to keep it.
• 2:59:49
  For three. Reasons which I will keep as
• 2:59:52
  brief as I can because we've touched on most of it.
• 2:59:55
  The location filming. I think Doctor Who always works
• 2:59:57
  well in isolated villages. The demons, Android invasion,
• 3:00:01
  they all, there's that feel of them and it's it's sunny as
• 3:00:04
  well. And Doctor Who's always better
• 3:00:06
  when it's sunny. Look at Delta and the Bannerman.
• 3:00:11
  The horses Oh the image of the. Horsemen in front of the red
• 3:00:14
  phone box. That's such a Doctor Who image.
• 3:00:17
  And. Then the ring hymn.
• 3:00:20
  Oh, we can't, it's against the rules.
• 3:00:21
  I love that. Do.
• 3:00:23
  You think this was a historical when you started?
• 3:00:26
  No, I think the opening shop, the horses hooves.
• 3:00:31
  I saw to wonder, but I think it's quite clear.
• 3:00:34
  Oh. She's wearing modern clothes,
• 3:00:36
  isn't she? Yeah.
• 3:00:37
  Yeah, because she's running along.
• 3:00:38
  Yeah, I think the Queen of the May on the cart sequence in Part
• 3:00:43
  2. I mean, that is so much more
• 3:00:46
  excitingly directed than any of the action scenes in Warriors of
• 3:00:49
  the Deep. It's.
• 3:00:50
  Quite a slight scene really, but it is so much more exciting and
• 3:00:54
  yeah, it's so sunny and it looks gorgeous.
• 3:00:56
  So yeah, the location filming is great.
• 3:00:58
  The cast, and I'm saying particularly Peter Davidson and
• 3:01:01
  Polly James. Sorry, Joe.
• 3:01:03
  I think next, don't worry, I think, I think, I think Polly
• 3:01:07
  James is great as the she's this normal person in amongst all the
• 3:01:11
  Mad Men and that includes the Doctor.
• 3:01:15
  You know, there's all. These people acting crazy and
• 3:01:17
  then this guy comes along who also acts crazy and says all
• 3:01:20
  these bizarre things about pteroleptils and God knows what.
• 3:01:26
  I think she has real chemistry with Peter Davison and as as
• 3:01:29
  does Keith Jane, who I've said comes across a bit more like a
• 3:01:32
  likable Adric. And there's so much business
• 3:01:36
  between them that we just don't get with the companions.
• 3:01:38
  The Doctor pulling Will into the church when he tries to have a
• 3:01:42
  look at who's coming. The bits of business with Jane
• 3:01:46
  and the TARDIS, the TARDIS door control, it's just all fun and
• 3:01:51
  he never does this with Tegan or none of it comes across.
• 3:01:54
  And that the. Dialogue is so much more like
• 3:01:56
  banter rather than bickering. Pains me to say it, but I'm
• 3:01:59
  sorry I ever doubted you. Well, we all learn by our
• 3:02:01
  mistakes and then the what is creating what is creating the
• 3:02:04
  most psychic energy? And Jane looks blankly at the
• 3:02:06
  Doctor and he says don't go. Games.
• 3:02:09
  Games, it's just so much more fun than a lot we get with the
• 3:02:14
  real companions. And James says he goes spam and
• 3:02:19
  Doctor says yes I know. It's.
• 3:02:25
  Just fluently exactly such. A great line so it all lifts.
• 3:02:33
  Davison but I think he's good. He does a good.
• 3:02:35
  We've mentioned his performance in a lot of them, but I think in
• 3:02:37
  this one, again, it's lifted, but it's lifted by Polly, James
• 3:02:41
  and and Will. Sorry.
• 3:02:44
  Yeah. Keith Jane as Jane and Will.
• 3:02:49
  So and the. Third one is the sound and the
• 3:02:52
  music. That you sound.
• 3:02:54
  Of music is really good. The sound of horses, hooves and
• 3:02:57
  distant battles to under under score a scene.
• 3:03:01
  It really helps sell some of those images some.
• 3:03:04
  Then when Will's remembering the soldiers come into little, how
• 3:03:08
  can we get the music turns into the the distant drums sort of
• 3:03:12
  given that military feeling. It's nice and creepy when we
• 3:03:17
  have the psychic projections. And then there's it's all nice
• 3:03:20
  and summary and jaunty when we get the queen of the May.
• 3:03:22
  So it just I just think it suits what we're seeing perfectly.
• 3:03:27
  And that's my three reasons to keep it.
• 3:03:31
  Wow. I'm going to go next because I'm
• 3:03:35
  going to add a bit of tension and drama into this because I'm
• 3:03:38
  going to give Joe a casting vote.
• 3:03:41
  Finally. Three hours recorded.
• 3:03:46
  Made. Really.
• 3:03:48
  Eloquent and really strong cases for this and I don't think the
• 3:03:54
  awakening is bad, it just does not leave an impression on me at
• 3:04:00
  all. I was watching it this time
• 3:04:01
  around. I have watched it on UK Gold,
• 3:04:04
  watched it on VHS, watched it on DVD more than once and I'm
• 3:04:08
  sitting there going, I don't remember some of this at all.
• 3:04:12
  It is one of a handful of stories that things like
• 3:04:14
  Underworld and the Highlanders and everything like that.
• 3:04:16
  And we did a commentary at Underworld and there's still
• 3:04:18
  bits I cannot remember. This is another one.
• 3:04:23
  There's a lot of good stuff in there.
• 3:04:24
  I think it's, as I said before, it's one of a run of really
• 3:04:28
  strong productions. I think it's really well
• 3:04:29
  directed. You've got a really strong guest
• 3:04:33
  cast apart from Polly James doing some cliffhanger acting.
• 3:04:37
  Which how long can you hold the word doctor for?
• 3:04:43
  Just a bit. Much and there's some really,
• 3:04:47
  really interesting ideas, but you know, it's quite a mass in
• 3:04:50
  the pits, done in 50 minutes, done really, really quickly.
• 3:04:53
  And you know they did they have the whole thing.
• 3:04:56
  We've got Tegan's grandfather who only appears in Part 2.
• 3:04:58
  And what does that? What does he bring to the story?
• 3:05:02
  What's the whole point of bringing Tegan's grandfather
• 3:05:04
  into it? He might as well have not been
• 3:05:06
  there. He, he just, if I remember
• 3:05:07
  right, he discovers the malice and you could have had Sir
• 3:05:10
  George finding it and it would have been fine.
• 3:05:12
  It would have made sense. It just feels like what?
• 3:05:15
  Why is he there? Tegan's given.
• 3:05:17
  I am. Sorry, I am confused.
• 3:05:19
  I am confused by Teegan's family because it's always been she's
• 3:05:24
  very Australian and Aunt Vanessa and Colin are very Australian
• 3:05:28
  and then there's her grandfather who's typically like she come.
• 3:05:34
  From is there another? A branch to your family that
• 3:05:38
  you've never mentioned. It's anyone.
• 3:05:40
  Would think they. Were just making it up as they
• 3:05:42
  go along. Paul, you.
• 3:05:43
  Know you might, might, and you. And they have something like,
• 3:05:46
  what do they they have like one line of dialogue between them.
• 3:05:50
  They have one scene where they're together.
• 3:05:52
  So it's just, it's one of those things of was there an earlier
• 3:05:55
  draft, I think wasn't this originally A4 Pastor or a longer
• 3:05:57
  story? And there may have been more to
• 3:05:58
  it. And it's kind of what's left, so
• 3:06:02
  it. Just.
• 3:06:02
  Feels very slight and there's nothing wrong with being slight.
• 3:06:06
  There are plenty of good two parters that are slight.
• 3:06:07
  The Rescue is a very slight story, but it's very
• 3:06:09
  entertaining. But for me it just nothing.
• 3:06:13
  I say things I don't remember about it.
• 3:06:16
  It's it's not bad, it's just a bit.
• 3:06:18
  Dull for me. But I take the point of the the
• 3:06:22
  context of a set and there's some interesting ideas.
• 3:06:24
  Could it have worked as a more interesting four parter where
• 3:06:26
  they were able to add in more themes and elements?
• 3:06:29
  I don't know. It's another story that ends
• 3:06:32
  with let's all dash into the TARDIS and let's all have let's
• 3:06:34
  have all the guests cast and around the console, the
• 3:06:39
  resolutions. Obviously they've got all the
• 3:06:40
  big climax of real pushing Saint George into the malice.
• 3:06:44
  But how does the Doctor get the malice to that point?
• 3:06:46
  Well, he presses a few buttons on the console.
• 3:06:48
  He spouts and technobabble and that the malice is going to
• 3:06:51
  destroy itself. And it's like there's just.
• 3:06:53
  No time is there, they just have to and wave it all.
• 3:06:57
  It's a. Bit of a hand, you know, it's
• 3:06:59
  what the modern series would do was I'm going to with this Onyx
• 3:07:01
  screwdriver at it and the plots going to resolve.
• 3:07:04
  It's very new. Series is very They could do
• 3:07:06
  this in the new series they could.
• 3:07:07
  Do one thing I think it does have, and I think it's it's not
• 3:07:13
  good, but it's really nicely done.
• 3:07:15
  It contains one of the most brutal deaths in Doctor Who,
• 3:07:19
  which is the beheading. And when you think, thinking
• 3:07:23
  about that in your term, this isn't just, this isn't one of
• 3:07:26
  the villainous characters, this isn't alien.
• 3:07:27
  This is somebody who basically stumbles in by accident, ends up
• 3:07:31
  with a head in the circle of swords, and then has his head
• 3:07:34
  cut off and it's like. That's pretty.
• 3:07:37
  Brutal. But anyway, this is a season of
• 3:07:39
  brutal deaths and I think a lot of it is just people getting
• 3:07:42
  shot to keep getting hit by visual effects.
• 3:07:45
  This is that's brutal and I think it was cut as well.
• 3:07:48
  I think there's definitely I'm sure I read somewhere that that
• 3:07:51
  was meant to be longer and this is the edited version.
• 3:07:54
  So I'm not sure what point I'm making with that.
• 3:07:56
  I'm just it just want to kind of acknowledge there is something
• 3:07:58
  really in this genuinely quite light and cheerful story.
• 3:08:01
  There is actually a really gruesome death.
• 3:08:05
  But it just. Doesn't work for me.
• 3:08:07
  I'm glad it works for other people and and I think you've
• 3:08:09
  all made a good case. But and also I want to inject a
• 3:08:12
  bit of tension into this as well because, you know, why not?
• 3:08:16
  So it's a bin for me. So, Joe, it's up to you.
• 3:08:19
  Well, I'm. Going to inject a bit more
• 3:08:21
  attention into this because I'm on the fence for this one.
• 3:08:24
  I really, I'm not entirely sure I do.
• 3:08:29
  I mean, I love the production, as did somebody say it's Barry
• 3:08:32
  Newberry's Last Story. That church set is phenomenally
• 3:08:37
  good and really atmospheric, beautifully dumb.
• 3:08:41
  And I love all the, someone mentioned The Wicker Man.
• 3:08:44
  It does have that feel to it of like horror in the English
• 3:08:48
  sunshine, you know, and that that just has like a tangible
• 3:08:51
  threat to it. I don't know what it is.
• 3:08:53
  And I think Will is a brilliant character, charmingly played and
• 3:08:59
  would have made a great companion, not because he's a
• 3:09:02
  historical companion or anything, but just because his
• 3:09:05
  chemistry. Peter Davidson is so great and I
• 3:09:08
  wish there was a bit more movement with Oh my God, nearest
• 3:09:11
  Hughes and Peter Davidson are great together.
• 3:09:14
  Let's have her come along at the end.
• 3:09:15
  You know, they, they did it with Fraser Hines in the 60s.
• 3:09:18
  There's a few times throughout the run where I really wish they
• 3:09:21
  they would sort of look at this. However go and watch the liver
• 3:09:28
  birds. Yeah, in the 70s and you will
• 3:09:31
  see probably the ultimate example of a show that is where
• 3:09:36
  one actress is doing so much heavy lifting because.
• 3:09:41
  The other one. Is not great.
• 3:09:44
  Paulie Jones is not a great actress, or at least I don't
• 3:09:47
  think she is. And she overplays a lot of this
• 3:09:53
  story, you know, in the way that Keith Jane underplays a lot of
• 3:09:56
  this story. And I can tell you which sort of
• 3:09:58
  side of the thing that I prefer. And it does allow Davison to do
• 3:10:02
  that sort of exasperation with her again, because he's always
• 3:10:06
  sort of trying to keep her under control.
• 3:10:08
  Fuck me, she's annoying. I'm glad she didn't come along.
• 3:10:12
  I, I had him this time. You've been reading my notes,
• 3:10:15
  Paul. I had the the fella, what's his
• 3:10:19
  name? The the camp guy.
• 3:10:21
  Willow. You must be our queen of the
• 3:10:23
  mayor. You know him?
• 3:10:26
  Yeah. Very odd character.
• 3:10:28
  And I just think the the redemption of him at the end.
• 3:10:32
  They just don't have any time to have conversations like and
• 3:10:36
  consequences. So it's just the story ends.
• 3:10:39
  Let's have a joke about tea. Tara, you lot.
• 3:10:42
  Let's go. And it's just so annoying.
• 3:10:44
  I think this genuinely would have worked brilliantly as a
• 3:10:47
  four part story as it was supposed to be.
• 3:10:49
  I would have loved an episode 1 where everything's fine in the
• 3:10:52
  village and this creeping horror is starting to emerge.
• 3:10:56
  The Doctor, Tegan and and Turlo come to the village, goes to the
• 3:11:01
  pub, chill out a bit, we realise bad things are going on.
• 3:11:07
  Just give it some context rather than just throwing us straight
• 3:11:10
  into the horrors already here. Everything's already set up.
• 3:11:13
  All we can do now is find the solution because everything's
• 3:11:16
  already done. The best thing about a Doctor
• 3:11:19
  Who is in episode 1 and this episode just cuts out the
• 3:11:22
  episode 1 and we're straight in episode 3 in episode 1.
• 3:11:26
  It's a very odd state of affairs.
• 3:11:28
  I know why it's there, but I it's not what I would have
• 3:11:31
  preferred. But I'm going to be in this and
• 3:11:36
  the reason I'm going to be in this and there's so many great
• 3:11:39
  things about this story is I really hate all the hand WAVY.
• 3:11:43
  Oh, it's a psychic projection. Oh, it's this.
• 3:11:45
  Oh, it's that. It reminds me so much of Moffit
• 3:11:47
  Who of these hand WAVY explanations for everything
• 3:11:50
  that's going on at the end. But I.
• 3:11:54
  Also don't like the fact that there's so many characters in
• 3:11:57
  this. That's like the worst of Chipnol
• 3:11:59
  who where you have all of these characters in one scene.
• 3:12:02
  The director's like, fuck me, how am I going to get them all
• 3:12:05
  in? And so he has to have them all
• 3:12:06
  with a big line around each other as these psychic
• 3:12:09
  projections are coming towards them.
• 3:12:11
  It's too unwieldy. The cast is too unwieldy for two
• 3:12:14
  episodes. So by the end, everyone's just
• 3:12:17
  standing around, you know, waiting to say they're lying.
• 3:12:21
  Yeah. I, I, I think episode 1 is
• 3:12:23
  pretty good. I think episode 2 takes a
• 3:12:25
  nosedive, doesn't do anything with Tegan or Turlo.
• 3:12:28
  And that's a bit of a fatal flaw in a Doctor Who story.
• 3:12:32
  No, let's, let's, let's stop being so kind to Season 21 and
• 3:12:38
  being the Awakening. Stephen, I'm sorry.
• 3:12:40
  I hate disappointing you. I feel very.
• 3:12:43
  Sad. I feel, I feel bad, I feel
• 3:12:44
  genuinely bad. There's such a good case before
• 3:12:46
  it, but don't worry, I'm absolutely sure that the next
• 3:12:51
  story is going to sail through and no one's going to have any
• 3:12:55
  issues with it and it's absolutely a definite win.
• 3:13:00
  Possibly going to be the champion story of the season.
• 3:13:04
  You are left, I am. Left with no choice, you have
• 3:13:07
  got. No choice.
• 3:13:09
  What do you? Make of Resurrection of the
• 3:13:11
  Daleks resurrection. Of the Daleks?
• 3:13:13
  Well 13 year old me said brilliant.
• 3:13:20
  Another classic from Eric Saywood.
• 3:13:22
  I didn't think he could get better than nerve shock. 10 out
• 3:13:25
  of 10. The best of the season?
• 3:13:29
  Is it still 10 out of 10 ever? Well, no, I yes, In 1984,
• 3:13:41
  Resurrection of Darts was everything I wanted from a
• 3:13:44
  Doctor Who's story. It.
• 3:13:46
  Was. Exciting.
• 3:13:48
  It had Daleks, there were lots of people shooting each other,
• 3:13:53
  Dalek mutant out of its casing, even Daleks starting to
• 3:13:57
  exterminate each other. It was just everything that I
• 3:14:01
  could have possibly hoped for, but.
• 3:14:03
  I look at. It now, it starts off so well.
• 3:14:06
  There's some really good model work.
• 3:14:08
  The spaceship and the prison is all really good.
• 3:14:12
  And from the very start, the donut, the direction is far more
• 3:14:15
  dynamic than anything we've seen so far this season.
• 3:14:18
  Production values are excellent. You can see all the money up
• 3:14:20
  there. They've spent money on this and
• 3:14:22
  you can see it looks great. There's a multi ethnic true,
• 3:14:26
  several female characters and they all speak.
• 3:14:29
  Location. Work looking great and
• 3:14:31
  atmospheric. Lots of extras who who actually
• 3:14:34
  move and run and fall over like they're actually been shot.
• 3:14:37
  And yeah, that's a little bit of lame ad libbing.
• 3:14:41
  Oh no, every man for himself. Like every time it's me.
• 3:14:46
  So terrible. That line isn't it?
• 3:14:50
  Not every man for himself excuse.
• 3:14:52
  Me. It's like the tall French and
• 3:14:53
  Jennifer Saunders. You know that sketch they do
• 3:14:55
  with the extras where they're like, well, you've got my baby,
• 3:14:58
  my baby, you've got to give yourself something to say?
• 3:15:01
  Terry. Malloy's Davros is good.
• 3:15:03
  It's not Michael Wisher good, but he is good, especially in
• 3:15:07
  his quieter moments. I think when he's being calm and
• 3:15:11
  chilling he's he works with. He's not quite so good when he
• 3:15:13
  starts shouting and ranting and gurgling and God knows what else
• 3:15:18
  it is he does. Shots.
• 3:15:20
  Of the Daleks in their ship looks like so traditional Doctor
• 3:15:23
  Who stuff. It's it's it hurts, it's
• 3:15:26
  brilliant. That soldier is hot, so no
• 3:15:28
  wonder the mutant attacks him twice.
• 3:15:31
  The one having a bag. Yeah, he gets the diet mutant
• 3:15:35
  around his neck. I'd suck on his neck, wouldn't
• 3:15:38
  you? The.
• 3:15:40
  Poison out of that too. Right.
• 3:15:42
  But then. It just descends into.
• 3:15:44
  Basically. Everything being exterminated
• 3:15:46
  for the sake of it and loses all cohesion.
• 3:15:51
  It's. Literally gets to a point where
• 3:15:53
  there's people here so they need to be exterminated and it's just
• 3:15:58
  constant. And then the Doctor deciding to
• 3:16:01
  kill Davros is so out of character.
• 3:16:05
  I can I can accept Tegan picking up a gun against the Cybermen in
• 3:16:09
  Earth Shock. I could have accepted Tegan
• 3:16:11
  picking up a gun against Davros, but not the Doctor.
• 3:16:15
  And it doesn't. It just doesn't feel right when
• 3:16:19
  he says I'm going to kill Davros.
• 3:16:21
  It's imagine. Imagine if they'd given Janet
• 3:16:25
  Field in that scene. You know, last story.
• 3:16:27
  However, I do think the Doctor Davros confrontation, although I
• 3:16:30
  don't buy the premise I I think it's a good exchange between
• 3:16:33
  them with Davos. Setting.
• 3:16:35
  Out, you know, they're setting out their opposing views and
• 3:16:38
  that was being kind of reasonable, you know, name but
• 3:16:41
  one planet whose history is not littered with atrocities.
• 3:16:44
  And you know, he he makes a good he is a good exchange.
• 3:16:47
  And despite all of this, I do still really enjoy it.
• 3:16:51
  I it's it's more of a guilty enjoyment these days.
• 3:16:57
  It's. A sort of a mindless enjoyment,
• 3:16:59
  but I do like it. It's and it's pretty better if
• 3:17:04
  you don't think about it. And just.
• 3:17:05
  Let it wash over you. However, I am going to have to
• 3:17:08
  be. In it and there are.
• 3:17:10
  Three reasons. The first one is that it goes
• 3:17:13
  too far. I mean, if I said Warriors of
• 3:17:17
  the Deep was earth shock on tranquilizers, well, this is
• 3:17:21
  earth shock on steroids. It's characters, they're all so
• 3:17:26
  cynical and nasty and snarky. Apart from the bomb disposal
• 3:17:32
  squad or the original ones before they're duplicated, who
• 3:17:34
  were the like, the only nice other nice characters in it.
• 3:17:37
  It's so bleak in a miserable way.
• 3:17:40
  Not not the like the atmosphere of Frontiers.
• 3:17:43
  It's just bleak because it's nasty.
• 3:17:46
  It is just far too much unnecessary killing.
• 3:17:48
  And there's there's a point where the actors are struggling
• 3:17:53
  to move because of the number of bodies on the floor.
• 3:17:57
  They're having to try and pick their way across.
• 3:18:00
  It's just that's too far. And you've talked about the
• 3:18:03
  nastiest killings in the I've there is the one killing in this
• 3:18:07
  story where I think that's that go well.
• 3:18:10
  It's not just the one, but the one, I think Doctor Who goes far
• 3:18:12
  too far and is nastiest, and that is the metal detector man.
• 3:18:18
  The guy with the metal detector who had nothing to do with the
• 3:18:21
  story. He doesn't see anything.
• 3:18:23
  He doesn't witness anything. He doesn't hear anything, and
• 3:18:27
  yet he's shot from a distance for the sake of it.
• 3:18:31
  And that for me is the way it's gone.
• 3:18:33
  That's too far. That's just nasty.
• 3:18:36
  It's sort. Of suggesting isn't it so the
• 3:18:37
  kids watching yeah, you could just be shy at any moment.
• 3:18:40
  Yeah, it doesn't. Matter.
• 3:18:41
  Yeah, it doesn't matter. Could just be.
• 3:18:43
  Short, you could just. Be shot from a distance for.
• 3:18:46
  Just. Yeah, because something else is
• 3:18:48
  going on somewhere else. And then shortly after that,
• 3:18:51
  it's the Chloe Ashcroft who was a play school presenter getting
• 3:18:55
  gunned down in the back. Which she?
• 3:18:58
  Plays quite well, but that's I think it's all a bit too, and
• 3:19:03
  maybe this is what tips Tegan over the edge.
• 3:19:05
  I guess it is. I guess that's what they're
• 3:19:06
  going for, but it's just. And yeah.
• 3:19:11
  And it literally descends into everything being exterminated
• 3:19:14
  for the sake of it. And literally there's some
• 3:19:17
  people around, we've got to exterminate them.
• 3:19:19
  And there are scenes literally just people walking along.
• 3:19:21
  The Dalek walks along, exterminates them, they all fall
• 3:19:23
  down. And that's.
• 3:19:24
  That's all. There is to it.
• 3:19:26
  My second reason, which I kind of overlaps is the plot.
• 3:19:29
  Or what? Plot or which?
• 3:19:33
  Plot just. It's very messy, very quickly.
• 3:19:37
  I mean, it starts out the Daleks wanted Dave Ross to sort out the
• 3:19:40
  Mevellan virus. So why are they preparing
• 3:19:44
  duplicates of the Doctor, talking about assassinating the
• 3:19:47
  High Council, and why are they putting duplicates in positions
• 3:19:49
  of power on Earth? Oh dear.
• 3:19:51
  Yeah, you know, Dave. Davison is Doctor.
• 3:19:56
  The Doctor. Sorry.
• 3:19:57
  Why does he assume Davros must be around the Daleks here?
• 3:20:00
  I assume Davros is here. Why would he think that?
• 3:20:04
  He's. Literally frozen him the last
• 3:20:06
  time he saw him. So why would he be around?
• 3:20:09
  And how does Davros know about the TARDIS?
• 3:20:13
  Because he's literally. Gone straight from Genesis, been
• 3:20:16
  unconscious for how many thousands of years?
• 3:20:18
  He's been awake for a few a few hours in Destiny, then been
• 3:20:21
  frozen, only just been awakened, and suddenly he knows everything
• 3:20:24
  about galactic history that's going on.
• 3:20:27
  Oh, you'd think the novel would make this all very clear, but
• 3:20:30
  actually I'm more confused. After reading that.
• 3:20:33
  I think there's. A big finished box.
• 3:20:35
  There's a big finished. Box that I think explains what
• 3:20:37
  happens to Davros between the two stories.
• 3:20:38
  And well, of course, it's all very time.
• 3:20:42
  Oh, OK, All right. So, and, and the whole point of
• 3:20:46
  the story at the start was that the Daleks needed Davros.
• 3:20:50
  So why do they suddenly decide that they had to kill him?
• 3:20:54
  It's literally why it's it's. Eric's sorry.
• 3:21:02
  That's why then it gets all very confusing.
• 3:21:03
  Whose Daleks are whose? Yeah, and what's the point of
• 3:21:09
  The Supremes Daleks? A bit on the scanner at the end.
• 3:21:11
  There are duplicates in place. And so what's coming of this?
• 3:21:16
  Where's this going? Nowhere.
• 3:21:19
  And my third reason, and this is the most egregious reason of all
• 3:21:23
  in my mind, is that Tegan is sidelined.
• 3:21:27
  In her. Final story This should have
• 3:21:30
  been She should have been central to this story, like
• 3:21:32
  Nessa and Adric before her. The story should have been about
• 3:21:36
  something to do with her and you know, and Turner gets it in the
• 3:21:40
  next one in Planet of fire, but Tegan is literally gets a grace
• 3:21:44
  of the head and spends half the time in bed, half the time
• 3:21:46
  wandering around. They they pop her into the time
• 3:21:50
  corridor without an escort, with no one to meet her at the ever
• 3:21:53
  end, just so that she can be in the right place to see.
• 3:21:56
  I don't know to witness whatever she witnesses, but it's just.
• 3:22:01
  It's a. Crime that she's She is
• 3:22:03
  sidelined like this in her final story.
• 3:22:06
  That said, her departure is emotional.
• 3:22:10
  It's all a bit short, a bit sudden.
• 3:22:12
  The music really sells it. And it's not Dodo Ben or Polly
• 3:22:16
  Bad, but she deserved better. And for that reason and I even.
• 3:22:22
  Didn't even start on the Kummy Daleks, but hey.
• 3:22:24
  Oh. We'll get there.
• 3:22:26
  Don't you want? It's in the bin.
• 3:22:28
  Even though it was my favorite story once.
• 3:22:31
  No. It just has to.
• 3:22:32
  Show, doesn't it, how things can change over time?
• 3:22:35
  What do our? Listeners make of Resurrection
• 3:22:37
  of the Daleks. I'll go first with this one.
• 3:22:39
  Dave Flint says was once my favorite story.
• 3:22:42
  It's dropped from those heights with more adult ties.
• 3:22:45
  Great spectacle. The visuals are a treat,
• 3:22:47
  particularly in the warehouse scenes.
• 3:22:48
  But it's schizophrenic and hollow story.
• 3:22:51
  It never quite works out what it wants to be.
• 3:22:53
  Chuck it out of a second story window.
• 3:22:56
  That's what I just. Said.
• 3:22:57
  Isn't it pretty? Large.
• 3:23:00
  I could. Have done it so much quicker.
• 3:23:02
  With less detail though No the detail was great AKA sorry James
• 3:23:06
  Hapwin Bennett AKA the one with the accidentally good continuity
• 3:23:10
  moment. It doesn't actually explain what
• 3:23:12
  it is. However.
• 3:23:14
  The rest of it is weapons grade crap.
• 3:23:16
  And yes, I know it had a troubled history due to being
• 3:23:19
  planned for season 20, but it should have been scrapped and
• 3:23:22
  completely something new written been.
• 3:23:25
  Tim Carter says Terry Malloy makes a great Davros, but it's
• 3:23:28
  hard to care about any of the characters in a final story.
• 3:23:31
  Tegan is completely wasted with nothing to do, only saved by a
• 3:23:35
  snap decision to leave, which is one of the best companion exits
• 3:23:38
  for me. Nemesis Michael Storm.
• 3:23:41
  This is Saywood on crack. It's relentlessly violent,
• 3:23:44
  unpleasant in tone, character and dialogue.
• 3:23:47
  The crew of the prison ship seem to be dressed in a fast fast
• 3:23:50
  food restaurant uniform. Why cast the crap?
• 3:23:54
  Likely lad. Or could say cast the crap.
• 3:23:57
  Oh no, what's that? No.
• 3:23:58
  What was that program called again?
• 3:24:01
  Thank you. Robinson's does great visuals
• 3:24:06
  but most of the cast are awful been.
• 3:24:09
  Gareth says resurrection is a busy mean is resurrection of the
• 3:24:14
  dialects is busy mean and noisy. Also some of the acting is a bit
• 3:24:17
  roping. I want to like it as a big,
• 3:24:19
  gritty Dalek tale, but it's just too missing.
• 3:24:22
  Still, Terry Malloy's Davros has rightfully stuck with us.
• 3:24:26
  Jay Showery says as a teenager, Resurrection of the Daleks
• 3:24:29
  delivered the goods for me. Well, yeah, that's a lot, aren't
• 3:24:32
  we as a teenager? A grim, relentless battle
• 3:24:35
  against Scaros finalists as they spring Davros from his cryogenic
• 3:24:39
  prism. But what seems so adult to me
• 3:24:41
  back then comes off as juvenile now.
• 3:24:43
  The script definitely needed more rewrites as it brims with
• 3:24:46
  far too many characters and subplots that go nowhere.
• 3:24:49
  Tegan is criminally underused in her final story.
• 3:24:53
  At least her departure scene is moving rebuke of the violent
• 3:24:56
  term Doctor Who has taken reluctantly.
• 3:24:59
  I say keep it. Jason Thompson says I love
• 3:25:03
  Resurrection, that Alex. Despite it being an objectively
• 3:25:06
  awful story in every way, it's unrelentingly brutal, has a
• 3:25:11
  horrendous bonded count, and barely hangs together as a plot
• 3:25:15
  ruler. Linsker is brilliant.
• 3:25:16
  Rodney Bews. Unless so the best thing about
• 3:25:20
  it is Tegan's departure, which feels earned actually.
• 3:25:22
  She has witnessed not only innocent people getting
• 3:25:24
  murdered, but even the doctor setting off with the intent to
• 3:25:27
  kill someone. The doctor begging her not to
• 3:25:29
  leave like this is heartbreaking.
• 3:25:31
  Kieran Evans My opinion of this has faded over time.
• 3:25:35
  Lots of action is grim. Not one to rewatch often.
• 3:25:38
  Tegan's departure may be rushed but feels for all the right
• 3:25:42
  reasons. Paul Dunn says loved it as a
• 3:25:45
  kid. Recurring theme again but
• 3:25:47
  because of all the action. But now I can see it.
• 3:25:49
  Shortcomings but still a guilty pleasure.
• 3:25:51
  Again, well shot and acted. Malloy nails Davros first time
• 3:25:55
  out, but ultimately not a patch on Revelation.
• 3:25:58
  Edward Cook Reeves, My favorite of the season, but bleak and
• 3:26:01
  clearly trying to do Earth shock for the Daleks unsuccessfully.
• 3:26:06
  Daniel Knight says, well directed by Matthew Robinson.
• 3:26:08
  But the violence leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.
• 3:26:11
  Professor LEDs death is particularly gratuitous.
• 3:26:13
  Saywood's script is messy, although he uses the Daleks
• 3:26:16
  well. Apart from the daft and
• 3:26:17
  assassination plot. Janet Fielding is great in her
• 3:26:20
  leaving scene. Luke.
• 3:26:22
  Seems Jenkins like a big new whose story plot holes out the I
• 3:26:27
  could just hear him saying this plot holes out the wazoo.
• 3:26:31
  But it has great make up, a diverse cast, some great action
• 3:26:35
  and horror, and one of my favorite companion X's.
• 3:26:39
  I mean, yes, it does have a diverse cast Luke, but it just
• 3:26:42
  means Eric Saywood is happy to murder all races.
• 3:26:48
  Our final, our final comment and our final comment of the day
• 3:26:51
  from Jack Coyer. It's a slightly shorter one as
• 3:26:54
  well. So you know, sadly it's just not
• 3:26:57
  what I want to be watching Doctor Who for, so it's probably
• 3:27:01
  goes down as one of my least favourites of all time.
• 3:27:03
  Ubermacho dialogue, minimal characterization.
• 3:27:06
  The Doctor is already becoming as impotent as the excesses of
• 3:27:09
  season 22. I don't like being cramped in
• 3:27:12
  these tiny rooms. The warehouse makes me feel sad
• 3:27:14
  looking at it. The Rodney Bees character has a
• 3:27:16
  stretch for his acting range, but he's fine and terrible.
• 3:27:19
  Terry Malloy makes a great Davros and is in two later
• 3:27:23
  classics. A shocking script from the
• 3:27:25
  script editor, which is all in capitals.
• 3:27:30
  So, Resurrection of the Daleks. Oh, let's go to.
• 3:27:35
  Joe first for this one. Oh, it's ghastly, isn't it?
• 3:27:39
  Just ghastly. Violence is now the order of the
• 3:27:44
  day. Nobody talks with words anymore,
• 3:27:47
  do they? Just talk with guns and fists
• 3:27:49
  and viruses and gas that melts your face off in that one of the
• 3:27:54
  most brutal moments ever. That poor extra man, he
• 3:27:58
  literally faces the screen and in all of his face has just
• 3:28:02
  turned to gunk. It's horrible.
• 3:28:05
  And then what's, what's the woman's name?
• 3:28:08
  Can anyone remember which woman is it?
• 3:28:11
  Karina. No, she.
• 3:28:14
  Got strangled in Warriors of the Deep.
• 3:28:16
  Oh. What's, I can't remember what
• 3:28:17
  you know, his his mate, the ballot's got his face melted
• 3:28:20
  off. And then there's the person of
• 3:28:22
  colour who's smoking a fag on the bridge and they end up
• 3:28:25
  killing each other. She shoots him and then she gets
• 3:28:28
  shot. It's just horrible.
• 3:28:31
  I mean, a lot of it has already been said actually in the
• 3:28:34
  comments and with Paul. Too many plot elements to keep
• 3:28:37
  track of. Embarrassingly, Tegan, like
• 3:28:39
  Davros has lost any sense of nuance he might ever have had.
• 3:28:43
  He's just a ranting villain in this kills off extraneous
• 3:28:48
  characters that have absolutely nothing to do with the plot.
• 3:28:52
  It is like operatically violent. By the end of this, there is a
• 3:28:57
  massacre on a scale we will never see in Doctor Who ever
• 3:29:01
  again. But of course, I'm going to put
• 3:29:05
  this through. Good grief.
• 3:29:07
  And I'll tell you for why, because I'm still 7 and at 7
• 3:29:16
  years old, I just love this. I love the frantic pace of it,
• 3:29:21
  the stylish action of it. I can see everything that
• 3:29:24
  everybody is going to say. Yeah, But I just have a blast
• 3:29:28
  watching the Duplex going around murdering everybody.
• 3:29:32
  It's all I want for them. Steven Moffitt say no.
• 3:29:35
  Daleks kill people. Yes, it is pretty terrible.
• 3:29:40
  But I just always have a blast watching it.
• 3:29:42
  So And Chloe Ashcroft, I mean, she's so terrible.
• 3:29:45
  The bit where she gets murdered, it's hilarious, isn't it?
• 3:29:49
  There's far too much happening in this.
• 3:29:51
  But it does skip from scene to scene, from set piece to set
• 3:29:55
  piece. I really enjoy watching it.
• 3:29:58
  I find it very entertaining. I think it is very stylishly
• 3:30:01
  executed. I certainly wouldn't want Doctor
• 3:30:06
  Who to be like this all the time, but I do remember showing
• 3:30:11
  this to my ex-husband as an in to Doctor Who.
• 3:30:15
  Right. And as a result of watching
• 3:30:18
  this, he then said let's do another Dalek story.
• 3:30:22
  That was great. OK, so it can entice people in
• 3:30:25
  as well. Yes.
• 3:30:29
  It's basically, you know, talk brutal Tory Britain taken to the
• 3:30:32
  stars. But man, I fucking love all
• 3:30:36
  those deaths. I love the old man getting shot.
• 3:30:39
  I love the face melt in a way. I love those Daleks.
• 3:30:43
  Calm, exploding everywhere, roughing from the cases like a
• 3:30:48
  dreadful orgy. Oh my God, it's very
• 3:30:51
  entertaining. I'm going to keep it.
• 3:30:53
  Stephen is looking apoplexic. Maybe he should go next I.
• 3:30:57
  Think he should? I can't believe you've been the
• 3:31:01
  awakening now you decided to see.
• 3:31:04
  The. Mother of Christ, where do I
• 3:31:07
  begin? It's not fun anymore.
• 3:31:10
  We know, Eric, we know. This is the worst example of
• 3:31:17
  Saywood in terms of his, not just his, writing.
• 3:31:21
  And shout out, by the way, to Johnny Spandrel's excellent
• 3:31:23
  Random Humour's entry on this episode, in which he outlines
• 3:31:29
  what Saywood ease is as a type of language.
• 3:31:35
  And of course, you know, there's, I mean, the great
• 3:31:37
  example here is your bio would be better directed against the
• 3:31:40
  enemy doctor, which I just think is like a classic example of.
• 3:31:44
  Say to have a glass of coal springs, mountain water.
• 3:31:50
  That that also, absolutely. But it is an example, this
• 3:31:55
  script of Saywood's total inability to conceive of Doctor
• 3:31:59
  Who as anything other than the BB CS version of basically every
• 3:32:05
  Hollywood sci-fi blockbuster since Star Wars.
• 3:32:08
  And that is such a fundamental misunderstanding of what Doctor
• 3:32:12
  Who is. It is not meant to be aiming for
• 3:32:16
  that. It's meant to be aiming for
• 3:32:18
  everything, I guess, that we we love it for, which is that
• 3:32:21
  strange, eccentric, you know, full of heart kind of show where
• 3:32:26
  it has a, a, a, a character who fundamentally makes things
• 3:32:32
  better. That's what the Doctor does.
• 3:32:34
  And I think it's that failure of imagination that's that's also
• 3:32:37
  wrapped up in this kind of horrible say with ease, cynicism
• 3:32:41
  and pessimism that world Schmitz around, you know, the human
• 3:32:46
  condition and the world in general.
• 3:32:49
  And the the problem with that is unless the script is knocked out
• 3:32:55
  of the park, good. It will always fail because
• 3:32:58
  there's no charm for it to fall back on this.
• 3:33:00
  This is a totally charmless script, and that can work as it
• 3:33:05
  does, I think, in Earth Shock, particularly upon first viewing,
• 3:33:08
  because it's a bit of a magic trip and that magic trick just
• 3:33:11
  about works. It works in Revelation, I think,
• 3:33:13
  not least because it borrows from Evelyn War, but because
• 3:33:16
  also it just unif it tries everything that he tries to do.
• 3:33:22
  It pulls off this. Everything he tries to do it, it
• 3:33:25
  does not pull off. It is an absolute disaster and
• 3:33:28
  because it has hasn't enough, you know, charisma and charm to
• 3:33:31
  it, it actually just feels like a total chore.
• 3:33:34
  I have never seen the fun in it, not even as a 1213 year old
• 3:33:39
  watching it. I look, I'll tell you what.
• 3:33:42
  It is the 1st 2025. Maybe 30 minutes at the outside
• 3:33:46
  is actually really compelling. But as Paul Cornell says, any
• 3:33:50
  fool could write an opening. I think what happens thereafter
• 3:33:54
  is that it the whole script falls apart.
• 3:33:56
  And maybe this is my own bias as well about Doctor Who.
• 3:33:58
  I'd look at it through the prism of the script because largely
• 3:34:02
  I've, you know, came to him through through the
• 3:34:04
  novelisations, although obviously this one was not
• 3:34:06
  novelised until a lot later. And then I wish it hadn't been
• 3:34:09
  at all, because it's probably the worst novelisation of them
• 3:34:12
  of them all. Because it has this.
• 3:34:16
  Absolute lack of lack of charm but because it sort of tries to
• 3:34:21
  trade on particularly direct the direction I feel and the set up
• 3:34:25
  which is really compelling. Like I say, the 1st 2025 minutes
• 3:34:28
  really kicks along. But what do you?
• 3:34:32
  Have in in in the script the way that it sort of pays off.
• 3:34:34
  Well, the doctor picks up a gun and shoots a dialogue mutant
• 3:34:42
  before going to kill Javros, which is I just feel like that
• 3:34:46
  is absolutely what you shouldn't be doing in in Doctor Who when
• 3:34:50
  the doctor picks up a gun. You have failed in your attempt
• 3:34:54
  to tell a Doctor Who story. There's something else that need
• 3:34:57
  to be considering, I guess. And go back to the drawing board
• 3:35:01
  and and and try again. He.
• 3:35:04
  Picks it up, but. He doesn't shoot there.
• 3:35:06
  No, no. No, I understand that.
• 3:35:08
  But the motivation is there. And because the story is so
• 3:35:11
  abysmal, I think the most interesting aspect I think is
• 3:35:16
  funnily enough the replica thing, which is not even part of
• 3:35:20
  the plot. It's it's a word only C plot
• 3:35:24
  that sort of gets dropped right at the end and sort of thing.
• 3:35:26
  Well, hang on a second, hang on a second.
• 3:35:29
  Tell me more. About that because what we've
• 3:35:30
  got in the meantime I. I just.
• 3:35:33
  Can't. I can't believe that this is,
• 3:35:36
  you know, this is the story in its place.
• 3:35:38
  You can't. Even be bothered to finish plots
• 3:35:41
  that you've written for this episode.
• 3:35:43
  You're just murdering everybody and you're already starting new
• 3:35:47
  ones. Yeah.
• 3:35:48
  Exactly. You're right.
• 3:35:51
  And so I, I think because of those reasons, because of the
• 3:35:54
  fact that it is fundamentally an, an abject failure of the of
• 3:35:58
  the story at the script level. It doesn't matter how great
• 3:36:02
  Matthew Robinson's direction is. It doesn't matter how great well
• 3:36:06
  some of the guest cast are. I guess it doesn't really
• 3:36:09
  matter. How?
• 3:36:12
  Exciting the idea of, you know, Daleks and Davros and, you know,
• 3:36:15
  time travel, time corridor technology and, you know, Shad
• 3:36:19
  Thames looking great and Daleks in London again for the first
• 3:36:24
  time since 1964. I think it is like all of these
• 3:36:28
  things just fall apart because ultimately there's nothing upon
• 3:36:32
  which you can base, you know, 90 minutes of television.
• 3:36:35
  This is this is the worst Eric Saywood script with I think by a
• 3:36:41
  country mile, and that says a lot.
• 3:36:43
  But it it's it is because he fundamentally doesn't understand
• 3:36:49
  what Doctor Who is. And maybe that's another reason
• 3:36:52
  why this serves as a bit of a template for Season 22 as well.
• 3:36:57
  I mean, I'll. Do I don't disagree with
• 3:36:59
  anything you just said there really.
• 3:37:02
  But but I think I probably watch telly more as television than as
• 3:37:12
  a script. And I can understand, I can
• 3:37:14
  understand why as a script this would be very lackluster, but as
• 3:37:19
  television, I think it does deliver.
• 3:37:24
  I think the 1st 20 minutes does. I'll go that far, OK.
• 3:37:28
  That's one vote to keep. One for the bid is now this is
• 3:37:37
  how, how long can I string this out for?
• 3:37:41
  I think Matthew Robinson directs this really well.
• 3:37:43
  It is one of the most stylish, particularly on the location
• 3:37:46
  work. I think it's nicely effective.
• 3:37:48
  The score on those scenes is really well done.
• 3:37:51
  Just ignore the extra acting. When you know they come out, you
• 3:37:54
  know, don't pay attention to the acting.
• 3:37:56
  And there's another needless death there with the tramp gets
• 3:37:59
  killed as well. Again, another innocent
• 3:38:01
  bystander just randomly off. It's not much.
• 3:38:03
  Of a life though metal detecting and.
• 3:38:06
  Then we've got several people have mentioned it's really good
• 3:38:10
  that we've got a really good diverse cast.
• 3:38:12
  Not just we've got people of different colour, we've got
• 3:38:14
  people of also good gender mix as well.
• 3:38:17
  So it feels like a properly diverse cast, which is really
• 3:38:19
  good to see. We've been.
• 3:38:21
  As well as people of colour being murdered.
• 3:38:23
  Wow, he's really it's. It's you know, it's equal
• 3:38:27
  opportunities and the space station has and normally when
• 3:38:32
  people say things have an alien vibe and it's like really it has
• 3:38:36
  the space station has that vibe from the first alien film of
• 3:38:39
  being this is not gleaming space station and high tech.
• 3:38:43
  This is the space station that's knackered.
• 3:38:45
  People are grumpy with each other.
• 3:38:47
  These are, you know, it's lived in.
• 3:38:49
  It's kind of got that aesthetic, which is kind of captured quite
• 3:38:51
  nice. Like turtle does spend a lot of
• 3:38:55
  the IT depends which version you watch, if you watch the 45
• 3:38:57
  minute version or the. Turtle does spend the 1st 50% of
• 3:39:02
  this story wandering around various sets.
• 3:39:04
  But once he meets up with Rula, Lensker and the rest of them, he
• 3:39:07
  actually gets quite an interesting bit to do.
• 3:39:10
  He's kind of driving the plot and the stuff with him and
• 3:39:12
  Mercer in terms of being quite pragmatic of you can't save your
• 3:39:15
  friends, but you can let's go kill.
• 3:39:18
  They're going to kill Davros as well.
• 3:39:20
  That's quite, you know, Mark Strickson again, showing that,
• 3:39:22
  you know, he's actually, when you give him some stuff in the
• 3:39:24
  script, he's showing his worth, but it's just horrible.
• 3:39:31
  You knew this was coming. It's.
• 3:39:35
  Horrible. But the thing that it's it
• 3:39:37
  really struck me this time round, similar to revelation,
• 3:39:41
  Eric Saywood has no interest in the doctor until about 2/3 of
• 3:39:46
  the way in. The difference is that the
• 3:39:47
  doctors on screen more in this, but what's he doing around the
• 3:39:52
  warehouse for most of Part 2 is he's hunting a mutant.
• 3:39:55
  He's he's shooting it. He then goes off to the
• 3:39:58
  spaceship where they then time to a bench and they do the clip
• 3:40:01
  show brain drain. But what point does the doctor
• 3:40:04
  actually properly properly enter the plot?
• 3:40:07
  Is not until basically part 4 where this and it's very similar
• 3:40:10
  to Revelation. It's the doctors kept kind of on
• 3:40:12
  the sidelines. What's he actually doing to
• 3:40:14
  drive the story? Not a lot, and it's kind of
• 3:40:17
  showing. Down for episode 3 I was.
• 3:40:19
  Going to say you might as well have been unconscious and got a
• 3:40:22
  body double in but. It's.
• 3:40:24
  That thing of Saywood is not interested really in the
• 3:40:27
  character of the Doctor, and he he'd rather be more interested
• 3:40:30
  in his own character. You've got characters like
• 3:40:33
  Styles who the Doctor doesn't even encounter.
• 3:40:35
  That's a fairly major guest star and they don't even interact.
• 3:40:39
  Too many. Plot lines.
• 3:40:41
  That's really common. Aphrod Davros really annoying as
• 3:40:45
  well. He's just shouted.
• 3:40:46
  You know that part, which I know it's meant to be the cliffhanger
• 3:40:49
  to Part 3, but when you watch the 45 minute version, he
• 3:40:52
  basically just stops off with an episode, turns to camera and
• 3:40:54
  just rants. And it's like it doesn't work in
• 3:40:57
  that in that feature like thing. It's like what's what?
• 3:40:59
  He's just stopping to have a rant.
• 3:41:01
  It all of a sudden Tegan's exit makes sense.
• 3:41:05
  But it's been said Janet Fielding has given him a sod all
• 3:41:09
  to do. It does make sense.
• 3:41:11
  It is quite a brutal departure and I quite like it that that,
• 3:41:15
  but she should have had more to do in her story.
• 3:41:18
  But the major thing for voting this out is not necessarily
• 3:41:22
  Chloe Ashcroft's performance. But she cannot say the word
• 3:41:25
  ambulance because because she keeps calling it ambulance and
• 3:41:32
  then once I started hearing the fact she can't say it.
• 3:41:34
  So she's. Still on play school, she's
• 3:41:36
  trying to talk to the kiddie wings.
• 3:41:37
  So for that reason, when can I try?
• 3:41:41
  And change your mind, though just one thing.
• 3:41:44
  Go. Are you up?
• 3:41:45
  Just one. Thing the campus moment in
• 3:41:47
  Doctor whoever and the only line you could say at a swingers
• 3:41:52
  party when Rodney Booths goes hello boys just in time for the
• 3:41:59
  fun and then pulls the labour and delivers the biggest
• 3:42:03
  explosion in history. I'm not quite sure what he was
• 3:42:07
  going for with that line delivery.
• 3:42:09
  I'm not sure what the direction was or what his choice was.
• 3:42:14
  I know I. Wouldn't sway you, I just wanted
• 3:42:15
  to say I know you. Just want you just wanted to get
• 3:42:17
  that in there, I mean. I beg your pardon?
• 3:42:21
  I'm. Pleasantly surprised that we
• 3:42:23
  haven't dwelled too much on the malevolent virus impact on both
• 3:42:28
  the Daleks and Davros because. I see.
• 3:42:30
  Isn't it squirty? It makes a.
• 3:42:32
  Lot of mess it does, you know. Someone's got to clean that up.
• 3:42:37
  But what? Did the policeman that?
• 3:42:40
  Came in to clear up that. See many.
• 3:42:44
  Mess things that Oh my God, what's been going on in here?
• 3:42:47
  Don't worry. Tegan's probably gone and run
• 3:42:49
  unit, you know, maybe in like some upcoming box set, there'll
• 3:42:52
  be a you know what she did after she ran off?
• 3:42:54
  You know, she rang the unit, got the Brigadier down.
• 3:42:56
  They came and gave it a bit of a scrub, but who knows?
• 3:43:00
  It's it's absolutely it's the only one really that was a solid
• 3:43:06
  bin from from this, this. I tell you a point when I when I
• 3:43:09
  got this on video when I was 11, this was like the most exciting
• 3:43:12
  video ever. I I absolutely loved even though
• 3:43:15
  the couple was pink. You know which just isn't.
• 3:43:18
  Don't be a. Boring adult David, be a child
• 3:43:21
  again. Oh no, I'm quite happy.
• 3:43:22
  Being a boring adult boom boom boom, I get to be mean about
• 3:43:26
  resurrection of the dialects, which is great fun.
• 3:43:29
  I shall. Have to admit defeat and have a
• 3:43:31
  sip of my cold spring mountain water.
• 3:43:33
  Excuse me. Thank you.
• 3:43:35
  And after about four hours we have we have reached the end of
• 3:43:42
  round one and we have knocked out three stories.
• 3:43:45
  We have seen Resurrection of the Daleks, The Awakening and
• 3:43:49
  Warriors of the Deep knocked out.
• 3:43:50
  So going into round two, we only have three stories to choose
• 3:43:54
  from. We were fairly unanimous in
• 3:43:58
  those stories, so. This this could be interesting.
• 3:44:01
  So I've got my randomizer which is just a bowl with some names
• 3:44:05
  in it. So.
• 3:44:09
  I'll I'll cue your. Whatever music.
• 3:44:13
  Camp. Music.
• 3:44:14
  That's it. Do we hear, do we hear the camp
• 3:44:18
  music? Because I put it on in post, you
• 3:44:19
  know, I'm just Oh no. I always put it on afterwards.
• 3:44:21
  No, no, no, no, don't play it now.
• 3:44:23
  I don't know how. It works.
• 3:44:23
  I shouldn't know how it works by then, so those.
• 3:44:27
  Things that. We have about the fire against
• 3:44:35
  frontiers. Oh.
• 3:44:36
  Bugger, let's. Go to Steve, please.
• 3:44:41
  Oh, this is difficult. Frontiers.
• 3:44:47
  I'll go Frontiers. Paul, it's a by.
• 3:44:55
  Turn it's Planet of fire. I'm going Planet of Fire.
• 3:45:02
  Joe, did you look conflicted? I'm making you go last.
• 3:45:07
  These are. Probably about two favourites.
• 3:45:09
  Oh no. Andrew Zani is.
• 3:45:10
  Fantastic bro. Fuck it, it don't get any love.
• 3:45:19
  Planet Fire. So it is Planet of Fire now?
• 3:45:25
  Before, before the Strictly Come Hamster audience takes to
• 3:45:28
  Twitter or whatever they do horror that certain things are
• 3:45:33
  knocked out. Please go back and listen to our
• 3:45:37
  defence of Planet of Fire earlier, right, We gave some
• 3:45:40
  good defences. So we have in the final for
• 3:45:44
  season 21, we have Planet of Fire versus the caves around
• 3:45:49
  Rosani. I'm, I'm going to go first
• 3:45:53
  because mine's really over. I'm going to go for Planet of
• 3:45:55
  Fire. Oh.
• 3:45:59
  I'm going. For Planet of Fire.
• 3:46:03
  Stephen and. Rosani.
• 3:46:08
  Oh no, you did that on purpose guys.
• 3:46:12
  Sorry. Will you just give me one second
• 3:46:13
  because it's telling me I literally had 30 gigs of space
• 3:46:17
  and now it's telling me I'm almost out.
• 3:46:19
  This call has not been that long, has it?
• 3:46:22
  Just very quickly out of memory. Just as we decide the winner.
• 3:46:26
  No, no. No, it's sending some across
• 3:46:27
  that I'll just, I'll just kick some things onto an external
• 3:46:30
  memory drive. So what?
• 3:46:31
  Where are we to you? Plant a fire.
• 3:46:33
  Plant a fire. Yeah, but then that'll go to
• 3:46:37
  Deadlock and that we both put all of those through, didn't we?
• 3:46:42
  Yes, no, I, I didn't with Andrew Zani, I was on the fence, but
• 3:46:45
  you will put these were very fairly unanimous.
• 3:46:50
  Oh, so if. I hang on a minute.
• 3:46:54
  No, no, no, wait, hang on a minute.
• 3:46:56
  If I choose, if I choose planet Fire, it wins.
• 3:47:00
  If I choose Kate of Andrazani, it goes to deadlock.
• 3:47:04
  And because there was one dissenter on Andrazani, Planet
• 3:47:07
  of Fire wins, right? If.
• 3:47:09
  Those are the rules. Those are the rules.
• 3:47:14
  We've got a winner, folks. My work here is.
• 3:47:21
  Done. That is now 2 for two where I've
• 3:47:25
  gone into a strictly with an idea of what I want to win.
• 3:47:27
  The last time it was Reign of Morbius if I.
• 3:47:30
  Was going to go to the shelf right now and you said to me,
• 3:47:32
  choose one of those two stories I would put on Planet of Fire.
• 3:47:35
  I'll go somewhere sunny over somewhere bleak.
• 3:47:39
  Exactly. It's the.
• 3:47:40
  More traditional, the two. It's got a little bit of
• 3:47:42
  optimism at the ending. You know, Turner gets a properly
• 3:47:45
  happy ending and Perry's really happy to be in the TARDIS.
• 3:47:48
  It doesn't last very long. Yeah, what I.
• 3:47:51
  Would say what what I think really has come out of
• 3:47:54
  everybody's arguments for these stories is possibly Resurrection
• 3:48:00
  of the Daleks aside, there's some smarts in this year,
• 3:48:05
  there's some big ideas being played about with, there's some
• 3:48:09
  interesting characterisation going on.
• 3:48:12
  Yeah, but there's more substance here I think than people would
• 3:48:15
  give this credit for. But I think so because this is
• 3:48:19
  the one I want to champion. We have a very worthy winner
• 3:48:21
  this time round. I can't wait to see what people
• 3:48:24
  people's reactions to. This one.
• 3:48:27
  Well. I mean, the form would be
• 3:48:28
  warriors that are deep to win, wouldn't it?
• 3:48:30
  You know well. I think I.
• 3:48:32
  Think that's what we need to tease with people.
• 3:48:33
  We need to warn people that we need to make the warriors of the
• 3:48:36
  deepest. Justice for the marker.
• 3:48:38
  Yeah, something like that. We'll start a new.
• 3:48:40
  Hashtag. Oh, I think that that is that
• 3:48:46
  has been bring fun. I think the fact that we were up
• 3:48:49
  until the awakening, we were fairly on the same page for
• 3:48:52
  almost all of that. That's but even even then, the
• 3:48:57
  awakening, it was borderline. I think there's still a lot to
• 3:48:59
  like in it, but I had to bring in a little bit of drama.
• 3:49:02
  I think we were. Far too kind we were being.
• 3:49:04
  Far too nice. Before we wrap up, Paul and
• 3:49:09
  Stephen, is there any, anything you'd like to plug or anywhere
• 3:49:12
  people can find you online? Paul.
• 3:49:16
  I don't have anything to plug unless you're looking to employ
• 3:49:20
  an actor. This is the first podcast I've
• 3:49:24
  ever done, so there's nowhere else to point you in that
• 3:49:27
  direction but. I just can.
• 3:49:29
  You have been wonderful, thank. You.
• 3:49:32
  You're too kind, but you can find me on all the usual
• 3:49:38
  Instagram blue sky. Still on X.
• 3:49:41
  For the moment, my username is always at Paul Cresser.
• 3:49:46
  It's. Really cryptic if you really
• 3:49:48
  want to thank. You, Stephen.
• 3:49:54
  By the time this goes out I'll probably have left to Twitter so
• 3:49:57
  find them Blue Sky at Steve Stylin, all one word and it's
• 3:50:00
  out the G. In terms of what I would like to
• 3:50:03
  plug the Three Handed Game and Australian Avengers podcast with
• 3:50:08
  my friends Brenton Jones and Richard Stone from Flight from
• 3:50:11
  the Flight through entirely fame.
• 3:50:14
  I've also got a blog, it's called Re
• 3:50:16
  imaginingdoctorwho.com. It's an absolute folly of a
• 3:50:21
  mission to basically rewrite Doctor Who right from the very
• 3:50:24
  beginning for a 21st century Netflix style audience.
• 3:50:29
  And I'm currently in between the 1st and 2nd Doctors.
• 3:50:32
  There will be some more content coming out soon, but yes, if you
• 3:50:36
  are wishing to have a look at what I am reimagining in terms
• 3:50:41
  of classic Doctor Who for a modern audience, that's
• 3:50:43
  reimagining reimagining doctorwho.com I'll.
• 3:50:48
  Just say, right? Yeah, You might think that the
• 3:50:51
  horror of trying to reimagine Doctor Who, right?
• 3:50:55
  How could this possibly be anything but grand folly?
• 3:50:58
  But then Stephen came to England and we spent a delightful week
• 3:51:02
  where he took me through. Not all the stories was it, but
• 3:51:05
  it was a lot of them. And my God, his version of
• 3:51:08
  Doctor Who's way better than the shit we've been watching.
• 3:51:10
  I'll tell you what, it's absolutely amazing.
• 3:51:16
  Joe, are you? On social media, Do you want to
• 3:51:18
  plug anything? This is your podcast, but you
• 3:51:21
  know. Oh, people know where I am,
• 3:51:23
  don't you worry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:51:25
  On all the usual places and just being loud everywhere.
• 3:51:29
  And I'm on all the usual places as well.
• 3:51:32
  I'm probably quite easy to find because I have quite a unique
• 3:51:34
  name as well. That's one of the downsides to
• 3:51:36
  double barrelling your name is you become like the only one in
• 3:51:39
  the world. But I've seen you.
• 3:51:41
  In in. Not just in the hamster.
• 3:51:43
  First I've heard you on Dylan Reece's Too Hot for TV.
• 3:51:48
  Did I hear you on Jim Allenby's as well?
• 3:51:49
  I've done. I have been on What's in the box
• 3:51:51
  with Jim? I've been on SO how It's a
• 3:51:54
  library, Impossible things. I did the Blake 7 special with
• 3:51:59
  Dylan on to offer TV and got another one of those coming up
• 3:52:02
  soon. And I might as well, you know,
• 3:52:04
  tout. If anybody's looking for someone
• 3:52:05
  to appear on a podcast, I'm more than happy to turn up because
• 3:52:08
  why not Fabulous? Book clubs as well we've got.
• 3:52:11
  A wonderful book club. We've just recorded on Eater of
• 3:52:14
  Wasps and we're doing bath therapy next, and I've also got
• 3:52:18
  my YouTube channel, which I've kind of paused for a little bit,
• 3:52:20
  but I'm starting up again as that has been looking at the
• 3:52:24
  world missing episodes of Doctor Who and random stuff from camera
• 3:52:27
  scripts. But I'm going to be branching
• 3:52:29
  out into looking at some Avengers behind the scenes stuff
• 3:52:33
  coming up. Look at Steven's face this way.
• 3:52:37
  If you think finding information on Doctor Who at times is a bit
• 3:52:40
  complicated, Avengers is. There's less out there to find
• 3:52:44
  and there's a lot more conjecture that makes it more
• 3:52:46
  interesting, but it's a lot harder to tell the story about
• 3:52:49
  because lots of sources contradict each other.
• 3:52:53
  But pay attention to my channel. We'll be more coming on there.
• 3:52:55
  It's all about the blonde Tara King episodes.
• 3:53:00
  I have. One question to ask before we
• 3:53:02
  out the episode, so all three of you on this, you're all been
• 3:53:05
  marvellous today is that obviously I'm coming to the end
• 3:53:10
  of the Strictly come Hamster seasons, but can I entice you
• 3:53:14
  all back, whether it's all together or on the other
• 3:53:17
  episodes with other people? For the once the all the seasons
• 3:53:20
  are done, then all the winners from the respective doctors will
• 3:53:24
  be going up against each other. So all the Tom Baker season
• 3:53:27
  winners will go up against each other a bit like we did with
• 3:53:29
  Colin. Can I entice you all back to to
• 3:53:33
  take on an individual doctor? Horse.
• 3:53:38
  I mean if you said no right now I would cry on camera it.
• 3:53:42
  Was tempting to joke me saying no.
• 3:53:44
  Then I thought, no, hang on, he'll just take that as my first
• 3:53:45
  answer and I'll love get asked. Is it available?
• 3:53:50
  For any future assignments, Yep, I've really enjoyed.
• 3:53:53
  This so I'd love to. Then of.
• 3:53:55
  Course, once all of the the overall winner for each Doctor
• 3:53:59
  has been decided, then there will be a grand finale of the
• 3:54:05
  single story from every Doctor going up against each other as
• 3:54:08
  we declare the strictly come hamster best Doctor Who story of
• 3:54:11
  all time. I mean, if it's the time Monster
• 3:54:14
  Joe Short will be absolutely delighted if.
• 3:54:17
  It's Planet of Fire. I'll be delighted.
• 3:54:19
  So will. I.
• 3:54:21
  And I'll have everyone on that one.
• 3:54:24
  Oh dear. How do we end this sort of thing
• 3:54:25
  then? David I.
• 3:54:27
  Think we, we, we do the usual. We thank people for listening.
• 3:54:29
  We hope they will join you again for whatever season that you're
• 3:54:31
  planning to do next season. Series 4.
• 3:54:34
  The new series. And I think you usually end with
• 3:54:38
  the usual bit. I try and.
• 3:54:42
  Entice everyone to do it, but it always fails.
• 3:54:46
  We say keep dancing in a very dramatic way in 321.
• 3:54:53
  Listen, that's one of the better attempts, if I'm honest.
• 3:54:58
  Goodnight, everyone. Goodnight.
• 3:55:40
  The. The.