Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Frazer Gregory & Simon Hart about their choice of The Seeds of Death (2/6)

Transcript

Talks to Frazer Gregory & Simon Hart about their choice of The Seeds of Death (2/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:42
  I'm still the blunt penknife. The Doctor Who commentaries
• 0:45
  podcast. Podcast, that doesn't have a
• 0:49
  very good intro for this episode because my co-host this evening
• 0:53
  did exactly what I was going to do for episode 1.
• 0:57
  So if you haven't listened to it, that's why I went for
• 0:59
  episode 1. You haven't listened to episode
• 1:02
  11, why not? It's really good.
• 1:05
  I had fun doing it ago. Back in the snow with no one
• 1:08
  listened to it and just imagine that I've done the exact same
• 1:11
  guy. Ugh.
• 1:12
  Now the episode 2 was might it was my idea first, not sighs.
• 1:16
  So well. back everybody to episode 2 of the seeds of Death.
• 1:24
  F, I'm freezer and I'm joined this evening by the lovely size.
• 1:30
  Yellow. Love me so-oh-oh joined by the
• 1:35
  even lovely. I chose yellow even Lovelier.
• 1:37
  Joe, death and doom, a pretty sooner actually are.
• 1:40
  Neither one of them are very appealing, both picture of great
• 1:45
  big pulse also, was that supposed to be an impression on
• 1:48
  me at the beginning of this episode.
• 1:51
  No, I think it was you do plus with a little bit of Pete,
• 1:54
  Lambert thrown in as well. I noticed it's the done thing.
• 1:57
  No, it's the commentaries podcasters.
• 2:00
  We're gonna make it happen. The wind not, we are going to
• 2:04
  happen. That's key thing, actual thing.
• 2:07
  And so we had a great time talking about episode 1.
• 2:12
  We talked in depth about everything that was happening on
• 2:15
  screen. Didn't work.
• 2:16
  You did. Yes, we have left.
• 2:18
  Nothing really left to talk about for the next five
• 2:20
  episodes. I've got loads to talk about
• 2:23
  yet, tons tons, what I wanted on your agenda to talk about Drew.
• 2:28
  Well, I've got one massive reason why I love the story so
• 2:32
  much so I want to talk about and what about?
• 2:34
  Take a whole episode. So I might wait for episode free
• 2:37
  to do that because I think this is where it all started to
• 2:39
  happen. I want talk about the music.
• 2:42
  I certainly want to talk about more about the direction.
• 2:44
  I want to talk about fuchsia misskelley that we didn't even
• 2:47
  touch on at all. When episode, well, I mean, we
• 2:49
  got noodles to talk about Out absolutely.
• 2:52
  And that is without having even the chance to talk about Alan
• 2:56
  bennion as slow. Our land comes in.
• 3:00
  Who is whose brilliant? Absolutely brilliant.
• 3:05
  Well, that's great because we'll cover those off now.
• 3:07
  Salt and just or go home, you got five days yet mate.
• 3:13
  All right, absolutely. We've got some questions from
• 3:16
  from lovely people on Twitter to keep us.
• 3:18
  We have line when we run out of things to say, We have didn't
• 3:22
  understand, you went out. Didn't you say, you went out and
• 3:24
  asked for cried? It's this time.
• 3:26
  Yes. And we had an amazing response
• 3:30
  because this is this is one that's been quite popular for us
• 3:32
  to do, wasn't it? People have been on about doing
• 3:35
  this one for a long time. Everyone likes this story a lot
• 3:39
  Fraser. Yeah, everyone.
• 3:42
  Well, you got to remember. I remember rated.
• 3:46
  So got after we did was it which one was it was it?
• 3:51
  Morton on that or was it the same place?
• 3:53
  We put the pole out that poor note which had this in Genesis
• 3:59
  of the Daleks and Boomtown Boomtown and we all expect a
• 4:05
  Genesis to win and it didn't see no death did.
• 4:09
  So obviously we did what we do with any Twitter port and we
• 4:11
  completely ignore the result and just development and it's been
• 4:15
  completely different in size is our form.
• 4:17
  Yes. Is our form?
• 4:19
  Yes. So it's there any questions to
• 4:22
  lead us into episode 2? Sorry.
• 4:24
  Well, let's me have a look. Hang on.
• 4:26
  What have we got? Some are are seen specific.
• 4:32
  So okay. So What have we got here?
• 4:40
  Okay, this one is from my lovely friend, Tom Newsome.
• 4:44
  And this is, how do you think this one would be remembered if
• 4:47
  it was absent from the archives. I'll man, can you imagine listen
• 4:53
  to the soundtrack of this, that fabulous music?
• 4:57
  That's what I was thinking. I think that would would carry
• 5:00
  it. I think this one, sounds
• 5:02
  brilliant. I think this one looks better.
• 5:05
  So, I think this would be very poorly, thought of all we had
• 5:10
  was the soundtrack, I'll tell you, why is because we've talked
• 5:16
  about, in episode 1 about all the action sequences, You know,
• 5:21
  that would not come across an audio whatsoever.
• 5:23
  I saw you would have, that's a good point.
• 5:26
  You would have sort of an episode 3.
• 5:28
  We're trapping is running up and down the corridor and proper
• 5:31
  Scooby-Doo style. You'd that is just going to be a
• 5:34
  couple of minutes of Music Fallen flapping around in form
• 5:40
  or that's going to be as music. So if you're listening to that
• 5:42
  on ordeal, you just kind of sitting there going, well this
• 5:45
  is a lovely tune, she has Dudley bought that's it.
• 5:49
  So I'm going, I'm going to connect it to you again.
• 5:51
  I'm afraid because I think I can listen to some of those 60
• 5:54
  stories and one of my go-to things is the music started.
• 6:00
  The scoring the Savages is amazingly good.
• 6:03
  And I always answer, I love listen to it just for them very
• 6:06
  much. And on that story.
• 6:07
  But yeah but that's you jr. A little bit strange like that
• 6:12
  and I will you choose to hang out with me.
• 6:13
  What's that say about you? Hmm.
• 6:16
  You know I think we all listen to episode 4 of evil of the
• 6:22
  Daleks which is a lot of beautiful music and a lot of
• 6:25
  determine a lot of fight scenes and a lot of Jamie and kemmel
• 6:32
  doing stuff that you can't see. And we got through that.
• 6:35
  Absolutely. And so I don't think that's a
• 6:39
  great argument. I've been with a bit of Fraser
• 6:41
  Hines narration that it goes very fast and then suddenly very
• 6:43
  slow because he's filling out the time and then proposed again
• 6:46
  it would be absolutely far at the same time.
• 6:49
  Daddy Simpson going to do sorry. Frasier.
• 6:59
  No I think it would be on a par with Celestial toymaker and the
• 7:05
  space pirates. Wow.
• 7:08
  Do you think? Oh, it's not you.
• 7:09
  It's nowhere near that bad. It's so much as in the in the
• 7:15
  performance though. It's I've said this a few times,
• 7:18
  another comment was another podcast that troughton stories
• 7:21
  or, and troughton is such a visual actor than I think the
• 7:25
  word is a way. Inclusive inclusive.
• 7:28
  That is right? Yes, although, there are a
• 7:29
  couple of stories and I think the eyes for is one of them and
• 7:33
  I think enemy the world is another that are particularly
• 7:36
  Well, characterized fear from the deep, probably scores pretty
• 7:39
  well and that you can listen to as like an audio drama and they
• 7:43
  come across really well, but I think you're right, as a whole,
• 7:46
  it's sort of the set pieces in this area, isn't it?
• 7:48
  And and what you're seeing, but that sequence in web of fear,
• 7:52
  episode 4, in the warehouse, you'd have that yet the soldiers
• 7:59
  shot and yeah, you know, it it loses a lot by not being able to
• 8:03
  see it. Well, I'm glad we can see it so
• 8:11
  we should probably start part two.
• 8:13
  Yes yeah. Should I count you in?
• 8:18
  Oh please God. No.
• 8:19
  No it's me. I'm doing this.
• 8:20
  Some of these Kono. So I'll cancel sin.
• 8:22
  Okay. In five, four.
• 8:25
  Three, two, one. Let's go.
• 8:30
  Go go move on. Go.
• 8:32
  Go mirror long ago. Right?
• 8:36
  Finally, the doctors got something to do episode 2 or
• 8:40
  yes. We do have one of the greatest
• 8:42
  scenes in order Who coming up on this episode of thing.
• 8:44
  Oh, I can't wait to hear all that.
• 8:45
  Is not a bit where they're all got the g-forces it and it will
• 8:48
  have all got the G4. I thought I was the better
• 8:53
  approach. Remember when pause Elisabeth
• 8:55
  sladen has got that massive close up in the Android
• 8:57
  invasion? I would phrase it remember of
• 9:00
  Jon Pertwee at that time to hit in the head with the industrial
• 9:03
  vacuum cleaner. Well, this is the thing, this is
• 9:06
  the thing with Michael Ferguson. He obviously learns from this
• 9:08
  story and when he goes into his next ones like all I've got to
• 9:11
  do G-Force again. But you know actually John do
• 9:14
  you mind if what actually turned the Dyson on your full blast and
• 9:17
  he said as long as industrial one of the things I love about
• 9:20
  this story is this intro scene that you get each and so Joe you
• 9:24
  were about to say is Well, because it absolutely tells you
• 9:29
  where you are, whether you're on the exact date on the earth and
• 9:32
  not a lot of Doctor Who stories. And that was something that
• 9:34
  Michael Ferguson came up with, that wasn't in the script so
• 9:38
  that he could start each episode in a really unique way.
• 9:42
  And with a plinky plinky, Douglas Douglas Dudley Simpson
• 9:46
  score as well. Yeah.
• 9:49
  Now where do I reckon that? That Feller Phipps.
• 9:52
  I know him from something else. Yes, he is in Doctor Who and the
• 9:55
  mutants Oh, it's sub Z its tub. See ya.
• 10:04
  Oh, can I say one thing, right? I think one area where Michael
• 10:08
  Ferguson's Direction falls down, and I think it's probably the
• 10:12
  only area in this is when he has to shoot and excluding the
• 10:16
  sequences on location when he has to shoot the ice Warriors.
• 10:21
  Because I think they just Lumber about there's a bit where one of
• 10:23
  them comes out of the Timur and he does a little dance.
• 10:27
  It's all true. Look, again, this, it this is
• 10:31
  partly because the studio is so small and there isn't room to
• 10:35
  maneuver and they don't move when you're stuck in all that
• 10:39
  fiberglass and wet suit and everything else, it's gonna be a
• 10:43
  hell of a job to move in any way convincingly at all, other than
• 10:48
  slowly. And yeah, the ice warrior
• 10:52
  costume. The designers.
• 10:53
  It's a bit. I am large around the hips.
• 10:57
  Yeah, it's true. But you do and so time.
• 11:01
  Yeah, it's almost like they've got big Pockets.
• 11:04
  You know, what did I actually keep in there?
• 11:06
  Do you think it's an effective design?
• 11:08
  The pair of you? Whether yeah, I think it looks
• 11:10
  brilliant until it has to move. It's a bit unwieldy and I think
• 11:15
  that they realize this and have the ice Lord, who is more
• 11:19
  maneuverable and is slightly more flexible.
• 11:25
  To sort of combat that interestingly, I think the
• 11:30
  silhouette is better than the detail as exemplified.
• 11:34
  In those sequences where he silhouetted by the sun, it looks
• 11:37
  terrific. When he comes towards the
• 11:38
  camera, I think they just look a bit like phrases that a bit
• 11:42
  fiberglass e. And a bit when you actually see
• 11:44
  sort of going close, you can see they're a bit Tatty.
• 11:46
  Well, it's either. I don't know if it's Kevin
• 11:49
  sticks on Michael Ferguson on the commentary, says it looks
• 11:51
  like the weapon and happy. Well, it's just Jordan.
• 11:55
  Rest of the characters like to be honest, everyone has got
• 11:57
  their underwear outside. Yeah, I'm going with saddlebags,
• 12:00
  it's not unhappy at the saddlebags have got things in
• 12:02
  there. They've got like a gnat's spare
• 12:04
  bulb for the torch on the wrist. They've got, you know, new set
• 12:06
  of gloves, can I ask you spout? It keeps him going.
• 12:10
  What is it about these futuristic jumpsuits?
• 12:13
  That they always put people in our one thing.
• 12:16
  I love about what Rusty Davis is vision of the future is
• 12:19
  everyone's just wearing bloody clothes, you know, I think it's
• 12:25
  a very particularly the 60s. I think it's a very 60s view of
• 12:30
  how the future was going to be. That everyone will be in
• 12:32
  jumpsuits because it's going to be and they're all going to be
• 12:35
  made of plastic and they're not thinking about how much everyone
• 12:38
  is going to sweat within them and these poor actors.
• 12:42
  They must have been really bloody or in those costumes.
• 12:46
  Hey, times Outta ten. Everyone looks so awkward and
• 12:49
  because because it's not like I've ever Elizabeth sladen
• 12:52
  saying once like She would have a costume and she would find the
• 12:56
  character sometimes in the costume.
• 12:58
  Well how can you find a character in that thing with
• 13:02
  difficulty? And I think if you're an older
• 13:06
  gentleman as well, it doesn't do you any favors I'm getting that
• 13:11
  way. You know what boy well I think
• 13:15
  You got the character because why the ice Warriors want them
• 13:18
  to invade Earth and kill everyone in uniform them in a
• 13:22
  death and everything. Well it's because Eldred is
• 13:24
  clearly, wearing an ice Warrior as a waistcoat.
• 13:30
  It's like a snake skin yet likes light-skinned Susan.
• 13:33
  Its yes that's why it's me. What?
• 13:38
  You know what? You've got to think is you know,
• 13:41
  as a costume designer you're given a task to her.
• 13:43
  So this story is set in. Yeah.
• 13:46
  Year 5,000 are you know during the next ice age or on the moon
• 13:50
  or whatever, you know, you've got a cell that you can be kind
• 13:54
  of going are. Well, actually you with that
• 13:56
  looks. It's got the look futuristic.
• 13:58
  So you've got to do something to make it stand out from what
• 14:01
  people were aiming at the time. I accept and that.
• 14:04
  But I do not accept that they thought world, you know what, in
• 14:07
  the future, everyone's gonna look like they're wearing their
• 14:09
  pants on the outside their trousers.
• 14:11
  Why not? Why would we not wear with pants
• 14:13
  outside? But right.
• 14:14
  Well, obviously, Reached all the repression, and we're all a bit
• 14:18
  bold now, let it all hang out, Doctor Who in the Victorian era,
• 14:23
  you know, I'd be like, well certainly people are never going
• 14:25
  to be showing their ankles in the, in the future could
• 14:28
  discussion. Yeah.
• 14:30
  What what I was watching the making of documentary last night
• 14:35
  in preparation for this and Bobby Bartlett, who is the
• 14:38
  costume designer was on there and what she'd really thought
• 14:42
  about other than the design. Sign and she I think she
• 14:46
  apologizes a bit for putting everyone in a jumpsuit but she
• 14:49
  said what I was most interested in was all these new Fabrics
• 14:53
  that we were suddenly getting that wet that you could do
• 14:57
  things with and looked really different to what you would find
• 15:01
  on the High Street. So you could certainly do these
• 15:04
  kind of costumes for the first time because you weren't
• 15:07
  constrained by the materials that you had before.
• 15:09
  So she thought about what she was doing and how it would look
• 15:15
  on screen. Yeah, yet, it's a shorthand
• 15:20
  really feel like this is the future.
• 15:22
  Yes, you need to be able to look at someone and you know,
• 15:26
  immediately tell this is this is not historical.
• 15:30
  This is not set on the present. Did this is the future.
• 15:34
  I think there are ways of doing that and not making people look
• 15:37
  ridiculous. Yeah, yes.
• 15:39
  I don't think that's lessons that they learn as they go
• 15:42
  along. So, I've got a question for you,
• 15:44
  then, which costume is the most Nicholas, it son in the future.
• 15:48
  Is it the pants outside on the seeds of death?
• 15:51
  Or is it the curtains of the Dawson's in the dominators Alice
• 15:55
  the pants for sure? I've got now well into shower,
• 16:02
  curtain Chic. You know, my wardrobe is full of
• 16:04
  them. That's one for the Dominator.
• 16:08
  So, mmm, I don't know. I mean, I'd rather wear the
• 16:13
  jumpsuit than the curtains I think.
• 16:16
  Well, I At one or and I get the deciding vote.
• 16:19
  Oh well, that camera was. Then in that shot, I don't know
• 16:29
  why. Like yeah, the hell would he
• 16:32
  have? Got that camera that hi there?
• 16:33
  Matt their massive lumpy things back then.
• 16:35
  Well they're not quite so lumpy at this point because we've
• 16:38
  moved to 625-line cameras. I think there's slightly less
• 16:42
  clunky. Maybe I'll so I keep talking
• 16:44
  technical, you're turning me on. Okay, well I want to ask about a
• 16:54
  particular character now because I feel it's obscene.
• 16:57
  But we haven't mentioned Miss Kelly in any great dish.
• 17:00
  Really, because I think it's very, I think there are some
• 17:05
  great, strong female characters in trout.
• 17:08
  And who certainly, there are more than there are in something
• 17:11
  like Hinchcliffe. Oh, but I think she's one of the
• 17:14
  best. I think she's fantastic.
• 17:20
  Isn't she Louise page? O is beautiful and she carries
• 17:25
  off the jumpsuit made of quilted material beautifully and she is
• 17:31
  absolutely in control and she cuts through all all this shit
• 17:37
  from that these men are giving her and she is, but she's also
• 17:42
  because you think they're quite often what they're doing at this
• 17:46
  point in the Is, if you got a woman who's in control, then
• 17:50
  she's going to be icy and cold and she starts off like that.
• 17:54
  But as you get to know her, there's a lot of warmth in her
• 17:58
  and there's a lot of times where she is.
• 18:00
  She's having a joke and but she's very efficient at her job.
• 18:03
  So I think she's absolutely brilliant.
• 18:09
  Yeah, and you're right, that it's a true business at that,
• 18:11
  you know, a strong female character, has to be a battle
• 18:13
  axe, you know, in very much softens as we go along.
• 18:20
  You know, obviously the comparison is Miss Garrett in.
• 18:24
  At least Warriors whose another really strong female character.
• 18:28
  But Miss Kelly is it's just that step above.
• 18:32
  I think this Gary, do, you know, like in there, as well as I was
• 18:35
  feel like they're like a massive coal venerating this computer,
• 18:39
  and she seems like the, you know, the the one who's in
• 18:42
  deepest, Miss Garrett, going. Yo, the great computer that we
• 18:45
  dare not, whereas I think Miss Kelly is a bit more in good
• 18:50
  season, six gave us some great women, didn't it?
• 18:53
  What about maybe? Jennifer from the war games or
• 18:56
  even smell like Rapunzel from the mine drawbar and can over
• 19:01
  the nominators, yeah, while ago, and phonograms everyone loves
• 19:06
  bologna gone. And if we could see her, I think
• 19:08
  Madeline is sikri from the seed from the space pirates would be
• 19:12
  brilliant and Isabel Watkins Isabel.
• 19:15
  Yes hey you stinking rich? And what sitting facing in the
• 19:22
  dominators. You know, there's that woman in
• 19:26
  the dominators as well. Fabulous can't.
• 19:29
  And oh she's gonna write that down in your notebook but it is,
• 19:39
  it is I think is a strength of the trout and era.
• 19:43
  They do Megan Jones. They give us these Korea, these
• 19:46
  real much Jack Gemma. Kirwan.
• 19:48
  Yeah, mmm. Is this, the Advent of the
• 19:50
  Avengers? Do you think?
• 19:52
  Yeah, this is all going on at the same time.
• 19:54
  So the We're sort of concurrent with the last series of the
• 19:57
  Avengers with Tara King. At this point, I will see for
• 20:01
  interesting is you've got Zoey and you've got misskelley in the
• 20:05
  story and the effectively sort of the same sort of character, a
• 20:08
  little bit cold, very clever, you know, very efficient, very
• 20:13
  blunt. But I think Wendy probably plays
• 20:16
  her character with so much more warmth.
• 20:19
  There is a contrast yet but again, that's been a gradual
• 20:24
  process. SS from the Willing space
• 20:26
  because if you watch the wheel in space, Zoe is a very cold
• 20:30
  character. She doesn't warm up till she's
• 20:34
  traveled with the doctor and Jamie for a little while until
• 20:37
  he decides she's a companion. Yes.
• 20:40
  I've just thought of more, you know, caftan.
• 20:43
  Yeah. What's her name?
• 20:44
  Tanya, from Tanya. Learn of my nose.
• 20:48
  I told you about my nose. Yeah.
• 20:51
  What about and Travers? Okay.
• 20:57
  Freaks. Yeah.
• 20:59
  Molly Dawson. Oh hello sir.
• 21:06
  What if your party you had sir? I think we're gonna celebrate
• 21:09
  older women of the trout in here in this episode but I'm glad we
• 21:12
  did it right. Okay.
• 21:15
  We're still not quite off of here.
• 21:17
  Are we with the Rockets? Not going to, but we're not far
• 21:20
  off. We are what's no, no we're
• 21:23
  getting out. Yes.
• 21:25
  I could possibly be why we're talking about all the women of
• 21:28
  the trout are open to the plot still hasn't kicked in yet, but
• 21:33
  this is sort of what what Fraser was saying earlier on, I think
• 21:36
  it was Fraser about Michael Ferguson superimposing things
• 21:40
  over people's faces. So you're cutting between
• 21:43
  everything quite a long time, and it gives it, a sense of
• 21:47
  movement in scenes, where not a lot is going on.
• 21:51
  Hmm. So it's really stylish Li done.
• 21:55
  And again, we've got this, this shot here, where there in the
• 21:59
  rocket and you think the set is probably only a slightly wider
• 22:02
  than this shot. Yeah, so but it's beautifully
• 22:06
  framed with the doctor in the center, and his two companions
• 22:09
  slightly lower than him and it's wonderful.
• 22:12
  And I love how the the set it up for like what's to come by all?
• 22:15
  Well, I've got to put the hands on the back of the neck.
• 22:19
  Take off. You know, you know how we've
• 22:26
  made sort of comparisons with the ice Warriors, and I think
• 22:30
  it's not worth doing because they're both, you know, the to
• 22:32
  assume that the era. Well, what, the same as raising,
• 22:38
  you know, you've got that fascinating relationship between
• 22:41
  Clinton and penley in the ice Warriors.
• 22:45
  I don't think the one here rad, noren, what's-his-name Elder 8l,
• 22:50
  true. As I must live him.
• 22:52
  It doesn't hold a candle. Handle to that relationship in
• 22:55
  the eyes and it is quickly sort of abandoned.
• 22:58
  Their basically plot functions from about episode 3 onwards,
• 23:01
  they're just there to. Yeah, I know they want those
• 23:03
  down, we got their argument, we know there are points of view,
• 23:07
  and you're just going to get on with the story.
• 23:09
  Phrases is love, and here we go. I'll look at that bottle.
• 23:25
  Rocket. It cute.
• 23:29
  What are we having our cake and eating it then because PSI use
• 23:32
  it and you it was all about Rockets.
• 23:34
  This that was excited for. Yeah, so we are basically we've
• 23:37
  still got Rocket 3 going on. Yeah.
• 23:41
  I do like it though. I do like the fact that it's,
• 23:42
  you know, it's all business but he's got this fusty old.
• 23:47
  What's he been doing is great deal to get in his garden?
• 23:50
  That's brilliant. It's like, it's like an old man.
• 23:53
  Restoring a steam train. Some!
• 23:57
  Look at that shot of the rocket with the Earth behind it.
• 24:00
  Yeah, now that is innovation for the time.
• 24:03
  Yeah, absolutely. I'm Doctor Who's meager budget.
• 24:06
  Mmm. The gravity is after a night
• 24:15
  out, what I love about these seeds is that Zoey, is the one
• 24:27
  who's in control, here you see that she goes returning to
• 24:31
  regular ground to now and it's just leans forward and pressures
• 24:34
  like that under this year. Oh, give me a break.
• 24:40
  I'm not but it's just charming and lovely.
• 24:44
  Look at that wistful. Look on hildreth's face.
• 24:47
  Mmm. They made fault of one of the
• 24:49
  circuits and you put the spaceship you've transferred.
• 24:52
  A child's to clown around a bit on Twisted, the Tardis Jamie's.
• 24:57
  Brilliant by clowning around, we ain't even started yet with
• 25:00
  this, we have not done. If it was on audio you're not
• 25:05
  gonna get any of this. You're not gonna get No, you'd
• 25:08
  have to have a lot of sort of instruction narration, wouldn't
• 25:12
  you? Just can be sitting there going
• 25:13
  yet? So the rust and off.
• 25:14
  No, that's problem on the spaceship and Yeah, the thing
• 25:19
  is, I think I think you do have to delay them getting there
• 25:23
  because when they're there, it's just a lot of running around
• 25:27
  like this. In five episodes are running
• 25:30
  around rather than, for what. This, this is not this.
• 25:34
  It's because it's too long. You may stop them getting to the
• 25:37
  Moon, you know, you could even start.
• 25:40
  This is this is something that you could say about nearly every
• 25:44
  story in this season that it's too low.
• 25:48
  Long. It's too long.
• 25:49
  It's just the way they were telling stories at this point.
• 25:53
  So you know it's not as long as the invasion.
• 25:58
  No. But you said sire.
• 26:00
  They've got all these sort of heavyweight directors coming in.
• 26:03
  You've got you know Michael Phelps and directing a sixth
• 26:05
  Douglas can feel directing an 8 and then Maloney directing a 10
• 26:10
  and they all keep the pace up. Hey, yeah.
• 26:15
  And that's how you know you don't have time although Lots
• 26:18
  happening. You don't have time to think
• 26:19
  about what's happening because there's another bit of Jeopardy
• 26:22
  coming along any minute. Now, imagine the horror, if, if
• 26:26
  they said right, Richard Martin's coming back to direct
• 26:28
  this 10-part epic at the end of the trial and error.
• 26:32
  Sorry, Frasier, you're trying to say something.
• 26:34
  Go Yeah, just so obviously you know we if we all agree that the
• 26:40
  episodes of this season of a bit too long what makes the other
• 26:45
  ones better paste in this one. You know, what is it about?
• 26:50
  Saw the war games, the way, you know, the 10 parts oh is doesn't
• 26:56
  feel as wouldn't on the spot and stretched out as is this 6 you
• 27:01
  could lose four episodes from the war games, you could lose,
• 27:04
  three, two or three episodes from The Invasion.
• 27:07
  All of them could be sure. And still tell the stories that
• 27:10
  they're tell him. So but what I quite like is that
• 27:18
  you have a little bit of breathing room so that you can
• 27:21
  get to know your characters. And I think there is some superb
• 27:26
  character work in this story that we might lose.
• 27:29
  If we didn't have that that time.
• 27:32
  And I think this is one of the things sort of in the in the
• 27:37
  other stories as well. That you might, you might lose
• 27:41
  the really fantastic. Relationship between Isabel and
• 27:44
  Zoey in The Invasion because those are the seeds you would
• 27:48
  cut straight away. You wouldn't have all that
• 27:51
  fashion shoot stuff at the start of episode 1 because that's just
• 27:55
  padding, you wouldn't have the wonderful scenes of the doctor
• 27:59
  and Zoe clowning around in the Croton spaceship because that's
• 28:04
  all padding, you know? But those are the things that
• 28:07
  make make these stories, something that we want to come
• 28:12
  back to. And again, then in the war
• 28:13
  games, you say, oh yeah, you could lose four episodes, but
• 28:18
  you'd lose some fantastic moments that I've been you would
• 28:22
  lose some of the characters stuff because that's always
• 28:26
  always the stuff that's easy to get rid of Is there anything you
• 28:30
  would want to lose from this story?
• 28:33
  No, I loved it. I think this story is absolutely
• 28:36
  fine and I have no problem as as we will see with some of the,
• 28:41
  some of the more controversial bits that are coming up in the
• 28:44
  next few episodes. I have actually no social.
• 28:46
  But I think people as we, as we've discovered from doing all
• 28:53
  of these people have Have. A problem with moments of
• 29:00
  silliness and fun in a serious in talking to Mark of.
• 29:04
  Yeah, well, yeah, those are bits that I love equally.
• 29:13
  People have problems with the lead character, picking up a
• 29:18
  weapon. Yes.
• 29:20
  Well, we will deal with that. With those up to you.
• 29:22
  There's an interesting one question about that to come in
• 29:25
  and buy things that I think there's you And umm, very
• 29:28
  interesting, parallel with trout and the Matt Smith and with
• 29:32
  Colin Baker, a big Capaldi, a why some doctors get away with
• 29:36
  it and others don't don't think they should but I think they do.
• 29:41
  Yeah I think there's get there's a, there's a very, I mean, it's
• 29:47
  obvious. Because Matt Smith, did you know
• 29:49
  study the truck mirror? Hmm, yes, there's a parallel
• 29:53
  there. So there is there's going to be
• 29:55
  that bit of overlap but there's a definite.
• 29:59
  Likeness between the 11th and the second doctor in how much
• 30:03
  they cover up. They're talking site as it were
• 30:11
  with with a bit of cloning Clowning Around.
• 30:15
  Yeah, you slap a smile on it and and it's a lot less confronting.
• 30:22
  Yeah. If you've got an asshole doctor,
• 30:25
  behaving in a violent way. Yeah, it's really interesting.
• 30:27
  And we should definitely get there in episode 6.
• 30:31
  Although there is a, there's a school of thought that that I
• 30:36
  heard when I went to the tribute Terrance dicks Day last year,
• 30:42
  while September that the doctor isn't defined as the doctor.
• 30:50
  We all know until Terrance dicks gets his hands on the show and
• 30:54
  redefines it in the early Pertwee years and where he makes
• 30:58
  the doctor, the center stage and he makes Him the moral compass
• 31:02
  of the show and I don't think I think it's it's a really
• 31:06
  convincing argument because I don't think the doctor acts like
• 31:11
  the doctor a lot of the time through the Hartnell and
• 31:14
  troughton stories. I think it's later on that.
• 31:16
  We have those, those ideas of what the doctor is, formed for
• 31:21
  us. This is brilliant Direction here
• 31:24
  with the ice Warrior being destroyed.
• 31:26
  Look at that. I know, they're just cutting
• 31:28
  between the cameras, but it's so fast.
• 31:31
  I so brilliant and the - perfect he does.
• 31:35
  Doesn't he the quickest? It makes you wonder how that
• 31:40
  Bloody of they do that back then.
• 31:43
  I think it was done live. Wasn't it?
• 31:44
  Like it was some of you can switch between the cameras.
• 31:47
  Mmm. Yeah.
• 31:51
  Yeah. Focus on the nature is gone.
• 31:52
  All out and it goes like I know this is y'all took you've seen
• 31:55
  time and again, but I'm gonna make this look as exciting as
• 31:58
  possible. And you know what you said
• 32:01
  earlier about the ratings this year Fraser actually, it wasn't
• 32:05
  until the space pirates that the rate is took a dive because like
• 32:08
  the croutons gets to single one episodes of groans gets nine
• 32:12
  million and that's the highest of the Season.
• 32:14
  You know, anything, you know of the era.
• 32:16
  Nothing gets over 9 million apart from the crow Tom's
• 32:19
  episode 1. So I think Think up until the
• 32:22
  seeds of death, the ratings are actually fairly solid for season
• 32:26
  6 is when the walkouts comes along.
• 32:28
  And everyone just goes, how many more episodes, this are we
• 32:30
  doing? it's It's good to kind of set in
• 32:38
  order than it's like, if you think you're watching the same
• 32:42
  thing over and over and over again, but the episodes finished
• 32:47
  older finish. How's it end?
• 32:49
  Because I wasn't looking. I was looking at your pretty
• 32:50
  face going to plunge, the move plunge, the rocket into the sun,
• 32:54
  someone's unplugged, the Homing Beacon to, to go and flow for
• 33:01
  all. That was a wonderful visual
• 33:03
  effect of destroying the Nice Warrior.
• 33:05
  We have actually turned the Homing Beacon officer now and
• 33:10
  Zoe Jamie in the doctor. Are you not going to plunge onto
• 33:12
  the surface of the Moon and a fireball of Destruction or drift
• 33:16
  aimlessly through space forever. Well call me mad, but I think
• 33:21
  that's going to happen, you know, I think he might just plug
• 33:24
  it back in, it would be rather weird.
• 33:27
  If halfway through this six part story, we lose the regulars.
• 33:30
  Well, we have already discussed how we can have Doctor Who
• 33:36
  without Doctor Who, or we're gonna find out in episode 4?
• 33:41
  Well, boys. Should we skip on into episode
• 33:43
  free? I think we should Harvest Time
• 33:46
  talking about this with you guys, me, too.
• 33:49
  Let's do it. Let's go.