Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Decker Sisters Deaths - Bags on Heads, Hands Zip tied, Bloody Handprint!

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Decker Sisters Deaths - Bags on Heads, Hands Zip tied, Bloody Handprint! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:01
Speaker 1: Quody bats. But Joseph's gotten more travel recommendation. If you
0:09
Speaker 1: have never seen the Cascades, get it on your list.
0:13
Speaker 1: You gotta go. You just you have to go. The
0:16
Speaker 1: Rockies are fine, but there's something about being in the
0:20
Speaker 1: midst of the Cascade range. You don't have to be
0:22
Speaker 1: in the midst of it. You can be miles and
0:25
Speaker 1: miles and miles and miles away from it and still
0:29
Speaker 1: kind of be in it. You can see them from
0:33
Speaker 1: such a great distance away. I remember the first time
0:37
Speaker 1: that I flew into Seattle and past I guess it's
0:44
Speaker 1: that mount hood, I think, coming in over this thing,
0:47
Speaker 1: and I'd never seen anything like in my life. It's amazing.
0:52
Speaker 1: And essentially they are snowcapped, dormant and volcanoes, but it's
0:56
Speaker 1: all the little hills that surround it as well, and
0:59
Speaker 1: those full, lush evergreen forest that go on like a
1:03
Speaker 1: carpet forever off into the distance. It is certainly a
1:10
Speaker 1: beautiful place, and it has a particular smell about it.
1:14
Speaker 1: When you're there underneath that canopy of evergreens, sometimes you
1:19
Speaker 1: can almost catch a hint of Christmas. Even in the summertime.
1:24
Speaker 1: It's the pine seceedars But today I want to talk
1:32
Speaker 1: about something that has come to my attention in the
1:36
Speaker 1: last three days across my desk, actually the last two days,
1:40
Speaker 1: and it's case that people have been talking about for
1:42
Speaker 1: a while, but there was really nothing there that I
1:45
Speaker 1: could hold forth on from a forensics perspective. Now there is.
1:54
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the murders of three precious little angels,
2:01
Speaker 1: the Decker Sisters. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is
2:08
Speaker 1: body Bags, David. I think the thing that so amazes
2:12
Speaker 1: me about the Cascades, and I know that geography nerds
2:16
Speaker 1: out there and probably people that live adjacent to them,
2:18
Speaker 1: that are friends of ours out there, they're going to
2:22
Speaker 1: nail me on this, But the idea that they run
2:28
Speaker 1: for such a long distance, you know, kind of up
2:30
Speaker 1: the spine on the west coast, if you will, And
2:32
Speaker 1: a lot of people use the Cascade Range to escape.
2:35
Speaker 1: They escape for a number of reasons. You know, we
2:38
Speaker 1: got to uh, well several, not just too We've got
2:41
Speaker 1: major metropolitan centers along there. You know, people you know,
2:46
Speaker 1: trying to earn a buck, they get away, they head
2:49
Speaker 1: head east, head towards the Cascades and go camping. And
2:54
Speaker 1: our subject today relative to the Decker sisters were volves
3:00
Speaker 1: around their little family and dad who was known to
3:06
Speaker 1: camp camp with some frequency. And this is up up
3:11
Speaker 1: in Washington State, up toward the north in the Cascade Range.
3:17
Speaker 1: And Travis went off into the forest and never came
3:22
Speaker 1: back out alive.
3:23
Speaker 2: Well, all right, Travis Decker, first of all, he's a
3:26
Speaker 2: thirty two year old guy who was in the military
3:30
Speaker 2: for an extended period of time. Kind of look at
3:33
Speaker 2: this and think was he really planning on making a
3:35
Speaker 2: life career out of the military, Because he was in
3:38
Speaker 2: it for longer than the first hitch that you do
3:41
Speaker 2: coming out of like high school or college when you
3:43
Speaker 2: don't know what you're going to do. He was in
3:44
Speaker 2: longer than that. He was in it for ten twelve
3:47
Speaker 2: years and then transfers over the National Guard. But he's
3:52
Speaker 2: got these girls, who's got an ex wife, and he
3:56
Speaker 2: has yet defined solid footing for himself. I don't know
3:59
Speaker 2: about it way to say it. As he and his
4:04
Speaker 2: wife ex wife dealt with custodial issues over the girls.
4:09
Speaker 2: She said, it's one thing to go camping as an outing.
4:15
Speaker 2: It's another if when you get the girls for a weekend,
4:18
Speaker 2: you're pitching a tent in the woods because you're homeless,
4:22
Speaker 2: and I think that is a legitimate question that has
4:27
Speaker 2: to be answered. That is not the environment that many
4:30
Speaker 2: of us would consider safe. And that was something that
4:32
Speaker 2: had happened as this was going on. So Travis, he
4:36
Speaker 2: was homeless, he did camp in the woods. He didn't
4:39
Speaker 2: do it because he was an outdoorsy guy. He did
4:41
Speaker 2: it because he had a truck, and that was it.
4:44
Speaker 2: So when he would get the girls, he would maybe
4:47
Speaker 2: sometimes stay in a hotel, sometimes not. And it got
4:51
Speaker 2: to the point where he did not get the kind
4:53
Speaker 2: of visitation that he wanted and it had kind of
4:56
Speaker 2: evolved into that. So when he comes to pick the
4:59
Speaker 2: girls up May thirtieth, was a planned visitation and I
5:07
Speaker 2: don't know, you know, we don't know all the zenos.
5:09
Speaker 2: We don't know everything that happened. We only know what
5:12
Speaker 2: cards he showed. And he did pick up the girls
5:16
Speaker 2: for a planned visitation. They were supposed to go to
5:19
Speaker 2: watch to appeer to five k run. You know a
5:22
Speaker 2: lot of times they'll have a five k run in
5:24
Speaker 2: your community and it's a whole day event where you know,
5:27
Speaker 2: you have cookouts and things like that, and lots of
5:29
Speaker 2: activities and so that's what they were going to do,
5:32
Speaker 2: a nice family fun time. But they never showed up there.
5:36
Speaker 2: And when Travis Decker did not show up with the
5:39
Speaker 2: girls we're talking about Peyton Decker is nine, Evelyn is eight,
5:45
Speaker 2: and Olivia is five. These are some very active ages.
5:51
Speaker 2: A five year old can keep you busy, yeah, a
5:55
Speaker 2: five year old, an eight year old and a nine
5:56
Speaker 2: year old can make you shave your head because of
5:59
Speaker 2: the bald patches you're pulling out. So he has, he
6:04
Speaker 2: has all three of these girls, and he doesn't bring
6:06
Speaker 2: them back when he was supposed to as this had
6:09
Speaker 2: been an ongoing issue. His ex wife did not tolerate it.
6:11
Speaker 2: She was on the phone with police fairly quickly. They
6:14
Speaker 2: did not come back. So it wasn't where he was
6:18
Speaker 2: supposed to have them for a week and they waited
6:21
Speaker 2: ten days. Okay, it wasn't like that. Joe. He picks
6:24
Speaker 2: them up, made the thirtieth within forty eight hours. There's
6:28
Speaker 2: an all points bulletin. We don't know where he is,
6:31
Speaker 2: we don't know where the girls are. Have you seen
6:34
Speaker 2: this man? Have you seen these girls? All over the
6:37
Speaker 2: Pacific Northwest? So that's kind of the setting that we
6:42
Speaker 2: start with. In this case, they did find a campsite
6:50
Speaker 2: where Travis Decker took his girls. I've seen pictures of
6:57
Speaker 2: his campsite, Joe and full disclosure, Joe was talking to
7:02
Speaker 2: me about this last night because you've done some appearances
7:06
Speaker 2: on networks that you've delved into this and you have
7:09
Speaker 2: some information about what took place. The pictures showed it
7:12
Speaker 2: fairly lived in camping area. It wasn't just a place
7:16
Speaker 2: he pitched a tent overnight with the girls. He'd been
7:19
Speaker 2: living in this area for a good long while. There
7:23
Speaker 2: were signs of trash and things like that that you
7:25
Speaker 2: don't accumulate in a twenty four hour period of time,
7:29
Speaker 2: but over weeks. So they've tracked him to this area
7:35
Speaker 2: that he was camping with the girls is homeless shelter
7:38
Speaker 2: if you want to call it that, and they found
7:42
Speaker 2: bags in like I use Dollar General as an example
7:47
Speaker 2: because if you live in the South, I guess it's
7:49
Speaker 2: a Southern town. I don't know, but we got a
7:51
Speaker 2: Dollar General every quarter mile. I think you have to
7:55
Speaker 2: have one. Is the law next to the Alexander Shannara
7:58
Speaker 2: lawyer signs you know, call me Ala e H So.
8:02
Speaker 1: There's even a postseason college football bowl named the Dollar General.
8:07
Speaker 2: I love it. And so we have these Dollar General bags.
8:12
Speaker 2: They're just general use. And they found bags like that
8:15
Speaker 2: all over this campsite, a lot of them, and twist
8:18
Speaker 2: ties and other things that just didn't seem to have
8:22
Speaker 2: a lot of value in a camping area. And if
8:25
Speaker 2: you were camping, now, if you're living, it's a different
8:28
Speaker 2: manner altogether. You know, when you're camping, you take stuff
8:31
Speaker 2: in you you have a bundle, you have a backpack,
8:33
Speaker 2: you have a bedroll, and you keep these things organized
8:36
Speaker 2: because you're going to take them back home. When you're
8:39
Speaker 2: living in the woods, not so much. It's a much
8:43
Speaker 2: different environment. And that's what this setting was. So when
8:46
Speaker 2: they come looking for the Girls show, or trying to
8:49
Speaker 2: find Travis Decker, they had no idea what they were
8:53
Speaker 2: going to find. They did not think the girls were
8:56
Speaker 2: in danger of life and death. They thought that they
9:00
Speaker 2: were in you know, with a dad who had come
9:04
Speaker 2: a bit unhinged.
9:05
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, he you know, my understanding, Dave is that
9:11
Speaker 1: it had gotten so precarious. I think with his living situation,
9:18
Speaker 1: it's like every other weekend he got them for eight
9:22
Speaker 1: hours unsupervised, and then I think he could come by
9:25
Speaker 1: the house and see them at specific times, you know,
9:30
Speaker 1: attle bit. You know, they had to remain at the house.
9:34
Speaker 1: You know, where else are you going to go? I mean,
9:36
Speaker 1: I guess you could go out to the park and look, man,
9:39
Speaker 1: you know, different circumstances happen. We've got homeless vets all
9:44
Speaker 1: over this country, sad that are, yeah, very sadly, that
9:48
Speaker 1: are suffering from all manner of maladies. Much of it
9:54
Speaker 1: goes right to the feet of the VA where you know,
9:59
Speaker 1: they don't take care of our troops. They're discarded and
10:04
Speaker 1: they don't get them the help they should. But you know,
10:06
Speaker 1: it's two way street too. I know, I've got good
10:09
Speaker 1: friends that have issues that came up, you know, during
10:14
Speaker 1: the you know, the war footing that we were on,
10:18
Speaker 1: and we're you know, in that situation for a long time.
10:21
Speaker 1: They paid price for it, but you know, their effort
10:25
Speaker 1: to get help hinge hinged heartily upon the amount of
10:31
Speaker 1: pressure that they were applying and being present for, you know,
10:34
Speaker 1: all the meetings and you know, getting your meds and
10:38
Speaker 1: all this stuff. And look, from what I understand, Travis
10:41
Speaker 1: Decker did have medication that he was supposed to be
10:45
Speaker 1: on for the psychopathology that he has been diagnosed with,
10:50
Speaker 1: which I think from an overarching standpoint of the diagnosis
10:53
Speaker 1: is actually PTSD and PTSD can manifest itself in a
10:58
Speaker 1: variety of different ways. But there were some underlying things
11:02
Speaker 1: too that had developed, and reports are that he would
11:08
Speaker 1: not take these medications that he had been given. But
11:13
Speaker 1: you know, and that's on him. He has to take
11:15
Speaker 1: those meds if he's seeking the treatment, you know, if
11:17
Speaker 1: you want to go get other treatment outside the VA
11:19
Speaker 1: find but you've got to do something to help yourself
11:22
Speaker 1: or you're not going to be in a position where
11:24
Speaker 1: you can be a daddy, which you know, to me
11:26
Speaker 1: is the most esteemed position in the world. I don't
11:29
Speaker 1: care what it is, you know, I you know, I
11:32
Speaker 1: wouldn't trade anything for being a daddy.
11:34
Speaker 2: So Travis Decker takes off and doesn't come back with
11:36
Speaker 2: the girls Joe, and they find his campsite fairly quickly,
11:40
Speaker 2: didn't take long. Three days in June, actually really two
11:44
Speaker 2: days of looking in on June the second they found
11:47
Speaker 2: his campsite, and what they found was beyond anything anybody
11:54
Speaker 2: thought they were going to find. Worst case scenario showed
11:58
Speaker 2: up in their face.
12:00
Speaker 1: It did. And this is the way that that I
12:04
Speaker 1: would envision this when you are a law enforcement officer
12:09
Speaker 1: and you show up at a remote location like this.
12:13
Speaker 1: The things that they saw upon their arrival and their
12:19
Speaker 1: discovery there, it wasn't just evidence that Travis Decker had
12:24
Speaker 1: endwelled that location. It looked as though Satan itself had
12:31
Speaker 1: paid a business. Where Where That's the biggest question when
12:50
Speaker 1: you've got missing children, Where are they? Where are they? We?
12:55
Speaker 1: You want to you want to see them, You want
12:57
Speaker 1: to be able to examine them. You want to be
13:00
Speaker 1: able to know that they're okay. I've talked about this before,
13:08
Speaker 1: Dave and some of our previous conversations about one of
13:10
Speaker 1: the responses I get from families when they're notified of death.
13:15
Speaker 1: Contrary to what people think, they don't ask what happened.
13:20
Speaker 1: Most of the time, most of the people that particularly
13:23
Speaker 1: their intimates, the first question out of their mouth is
13:26
Speaker 1: where are they? Where are they? Even though you've told
13:29
Speaker 1: them that they're deceased, most people cannot accept the fact
13:34
Speaker 1: that someone is deceased. Their brain goes to this idea
13:38
Speaker 1: of where, because where gives them an indication of the
13:42
Speaker 1: location they need to go to in order to verify
13:44
Speaker 1: it for themselves. There's part of us in our core
13:50
Speaker 1: that are all all from Missouri. You got to show me, Oh,
13:56
Speaker 1: you've got to show me. You've got to show me.
13:58
Speaker 1: You have to demonstrate to me because you've never known
14:02
Speaker 1: most people have never known life without those that they love,
14:05
Speaker 1: and then when it happens, they want to be able
14:08
Speaker 1: to verify, verify it with their eyes. And so therefore,
14:13
Speaker 1: you know, what happened is kind of down the list
14:18
Speaker 1: from that because they're not believe Even if you tell
14:20
Speaker 1: them what happened, they're not going to believe you because
14:23
Speaker 1: you're a total stranger. Now, some people might just sit
14:25
Speaker 1: there and say, oh, okay, well that happened. The line's
14:28
Speaker 1: chair people are not going to do that. They want
14:30
Speaker 1: to verify everything for themselves. And look, I understand, I
14:34
Speaker 1: understand completely. I know. As a matter of fact, families
14:36
Speaker 1: want to touch the bodies. Isn't that something It's almost
14:40
Speaker 1: like if you've ever seen a mama a dog where
14:46
Speaker 1: she loses a pup out of the litter in order,
14:49
Speaker 1: and other animals do this too. They'll nuzzle, they'll nuzzle
14:52
Speaker 1: the ceased animal that cease pup or calf or whatever,
14:57
Speaker 1: just to verify. It's a tactile thing where they're verified
15:00
Speaker 1: behind that this child is no more and the same
15:05
Speaker 1: as here, you know, for David. You know we're talking
15:08
Speaker 1: about back in May is when they're last seen. As
15:11
Speaker 1: of this taping, we're into August of twenty twenty five,
15:15
Speaker 1: now like significantly into August. Okay, this search had gone
15:20
Speaker 1: on for a bit, and then there's been lingering questions
15:23
Speaker 1: ever since, ever since this horrible discovery out there.
15:28
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned the mountains, Joe and this guy he embedded,
15:31
Speaker 2: you know, he was living in it. He was living
15:34
Speaker 2: in the woods, using a truck for cover at times,
15:37
Speaker 2: you know, but he has been There have been a
15:41
Speaker 2: lot of spottings of him possibly being seen here or there.
15:44
Speaker 2: But you know, it's a big forest. It's a lot
15:47
Speaker 2: of area to cover. And boy, I do not want
15:50
Speaker 2: this to come off wrong. Joe. Yeah, but they were
15:54
Speaker 2: looking for the three girls. I mean, granted, they care
15:57
Speaker 2: about Travis Decker, you know, but when they were in
16:00
Speaker 2: searching for their searching for the girls, they give me
16:02
Speaker 2: the girls. Do what you're you're a grown man. When
16:05
Speaker 2: on June second, they go to the campsite, they find
16:07
Speaker 2: where they knew where he had been, and they find
16:10
Speaker 2: the girls Joe. They don't find Travis Decker, and that's
16:14
Speaker 2: when the search changes. They're not looking for a man
16:17
Speaker 2: trying to disguise three girls and set up shop somewhere
16:20
Speaker 2: else in the country. He has murdered his daughters in
16:25
Speaker 2: the woods. And we haven't been given the details of
16:30
Speaker 2: what was found at the campsite other than Decker's not
16:34
Speaker 2: here and the girls are gone. The girls are dead.
16:37
Speaker 2: So tell me. Because the search is still ongoing, we
16:42
Speaker 2: still don't have travel I mean this, you're thinking about
16:45
Speaker 2: a country that you know. To be honest with you,
16:47
Speaker 2: the government is probably listening to us right now. If
16:50
Speaker 2: you and I start talking about axe handles while we
16:52
Speaker 2: record this on our Facebook feed, we're going to see
16:55
Speaker 2: commercials today for ax handles. So how does a person,
16:59
Speaker 2: a third year old man who is having mental issues,
17:04
Speaker 2: how does he stay gone like this? How does he
17:06
Speaker 2: stay hidden.
17:06
Speaker 1: Walks away from everything? Uh? You know, his vehicle was
17:10
Speaker 1: found and him and his vehicle were essentially married together.
17:14
Speaker 1: You know, let's face it. You know I don't know
17:15
Speaker 1: about you. I spent the night in my car before
17:18
Speaker 1: now I can't. I can't imagine what it would be
17:22
Speaker 1: like to live in a car for a protracted period
17:24
Speaker 1: of time. Uh, there are people that do it, and
17:26
Speaker 1: they do it all the time. All you gotta do
17:27
Speaker 1: is go to l A and drive them down the road.
17:29
Speaker 1: You'll see them parked up on pull up on sidewalk,
17:31
Speaker 1: on the sadds things you've ever seen, you know, But people
17:35
Speaker 1: do it. They survive that way. We think about that
17:39
Speaker 1: little precious baby up there and where was it in
17:41
Speaker 1: New Hampshire that that monster had her? Yeah, Harmony had
17:46
Speaker 1: that monster had her, and uh the other sibling and
17:50
Speaker 1: the girlfriend I think the three siblings or two, I
17:53
Speaker 1: can't remember, But that little baby was living in a
17:58
Speaker 1: Chrysler seabreing, which are converts up in the Northeast. People
18:02
Speaker 1: will live in these environments. So the fact, I think,
18:06
Speaker 1: from an investigative standpoint, Dave, is very significant that that
18:11
Speaker 1: this vehicle has been left behind. And my understanding is
18:15
Speaker 1: there was a wallet found in the vehicle. So if
18:19
Speaker 1: you leave your wallet behind, you don't know. If he
18:24
Speaker 1: doesn't have the means to have a home, so how
18:26
Speaker 1: much cash could he have on him? He walks out
18:28
Speaker 1: of this place leaving the car behind and leaving three murdered,
18:35
Speaker 1: angelic little darlings. You know they're in that forest. You
18:39
Speaker 1: know what what else was left behind? Dave, you talk
18:42
Speaker 1: about a dichotomy. His dog was left and the dog
18:47
Speaker 1: is alive. Now you compete if we were to put
18:51
Speaker 1: that on scales, Okay, the lives of your children that
18:58
Speaker 1: you couldn't have on the basis you see, you probably think,
19:03
Speaker 1: you know where I'm going here, and you got the
19:05
Speaker 1: dog that has been living with him, and that dog
19:09
Speaker 1: is still alive. But yet you snuff out these three
19:11
Speaker 1: precious lives of your children. That's you know, that's a
19:17
Speaker 1: that's a Karen was see comment there. You know, Karen Stark,
19:22
Speaker 1: our friend of forensic psychologists. I don't even know how
19:27
Speaker 1: to begin to kind of unpack that. You know, how
19:30
Speaker 1: you can dehumanize these precious souls and and you spare
19:36
Speaker 1: the dog. I don't I don't really get that. I
19:39
Speaker 1: don't understand it. I think that probably one of the
19:44
Speaker 1: most significant pieces that's very puzzling to me about this
19:50
Speaker 1: triple homicide of the Decker sisters is the idea that
19:54
Speaker 1: you're trying to find evidence of maybe just maybe what
19:58
Speaker 1: had actually happened there, and this is kind of significant.
20:05
Speaker 1: There was actually blood, bloody handprints that were found on
20:09
Speaker 1: I think it was the tailgate of that trunk.
20:11
Speaker 2: Well, that's what you know. You mentioned he left his
20:14
Speaker 2: vehicle behind this pickup truck which had been they said
20:18
Speaker 2: it wasn't operational, whatever was going on with it. The
20:21
Speaker 2: truck had died and he left it there. You know,
20:23
Speaker 2: he didn't get it repaired. And again he's homeless for
20:26
Speaker 2: crying out loud, but when they get there, he's gone.
20:29
Speaker 2: You mentioned the dog is there. I was thinking, in
20:31
Speaker 2: my weird way of thinking, I thought that the dog,
20:36
Speaker 2: when he saw what was going on with the girls,
20:37
Speaker 2: the dog. Dogs are not stupid, and that maybe the
20:40
Speaker 2: dog was problematic for it. Maybe the dog was not
20:43
Speaker 2: allowing him to do what he was trying to do,
20:46
Speaker 2: and maybe he did something scared the dog away where
20:49
Speaker 2: he ran away, and then when Decker left, he came
20:52
Speaker 2: back like maybe to protect the girls. That sounds crazy,
20:55
Speaker 2: but that was one of the many thoughts in my head.
20:58
Speaker 1: All manner of things. I've got a I've got a
21:02
Speaker 1: newly acquired part shihaha. Kim and I we Kim and
21:08
Speaker 1: I rescue dogs that's that's our thing. We and we
21:11
Speaker 1: go to kill shelters to get them. And we've got
21:13
Speaker 1: three right now. And the latest one that we have
21:16
Speaker 1: is her name's Frenchy and she's part Shihuahua. And every
21:23
Speaker 1: time I come up to the door, if she could
21:26
Speaker 1: rip my head off, she would. But once I get
21:28
Speaker 1: in there, she's wagging her tail, you know, she alerts
21:30
Speaker 1: the things, she sees things and uh, you know, and
21:33
Speaker 1: she'll crawl back up in Kim's lap. Meanwhile, I've got,
21:37
Speaker 1: you know, a forty pounds lab that crawls up into
21:39
Speaker 1: my lap and I sat there and pet her.
21:41
Speaker 2: Wow.
21:41
Speaker 1: But dogs, dogs are interesting that way, and they they're
21:45
Speaker 1: part of you know, dogs are part of families. And
21:48
Speaker 1: that's an interesting idea that you put forward there. They
21:52
Speaker 1: you know, did the dog, you know, did the dog
21:54
Speaker 1: run away? Did he show the dog off? You know
21:57
Speaker 1: what exactly happened? Why would you abandon the dog? And
22:01
Speaker 1: there was also food left behind in the vehicle. But
22:05
Speaker 1: the blood on his hands or the bloody hand prints,
22:09
Speaker 1: which by the bye DNA testing turned out that this
22:14
Speaker 1: is his blood and typing in DNA.
22:17
Speaker 2: Well wait, wait a minute, it was Travis Decker's blood.
22:19
Speaker 1: I think it was.
22:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, okay, we've got we know we have three children, five, eight,
22:24
Speaker 2: and nine who are dead, and we know there's twist
22:27
Speaker 2: ties and zip ties and bags all over the place.
22:31
Speaker 2: Now we've got bloody handprints. Yeah, I'm curious as to
22:35
Speaker 2: what how did he how did he kill the girls?
22:39
Speaker 2: Did he do we know that? Do we know how
22:41
Speaker 2: he killed?
22:43
Speaker 1: We do?
22:43
Speaker 2: Oh wait a minute, allegedly killed the girls. He's a suspect.
22:45
Speaker 2: He's not convicted, he hasn't gone at right.
22:47
Speaker 1: He is a suspect at this point in tom And
22:49
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, the police are actually stating
22:54
Speaker 1: he is the soul suspect. They're not looking at anybody
22:58
Speaker 1: else at this point, and kind of let me break
23:01
Speaker 1: this down for you and let you know what I
23:03
Speaker 1: think or what I know at least at this point
23:08
Speaker 1: in time. These babies were found and at first they
23:13
Speaker 1: said it was one, but apparently now it's all of them.
23:17
Speaker 1: Dave had their little wrist bound with zip ties. Just
23:22
Speaker 1: let that sink in just for a second. You know,
23:24
Speaker 1: we see we see these you know, police officers and
23:28
Speaker 1: people in the military that are you know, doing dynamic
23:31
Speaker 1: entries and all that sort of thing, and they don't
23:33
Speaker 1: have cuffs with them. They'll use zip tie cuffs, and
23:35
Speaker 1: you can fashion a zip tie cuff kind of a
23:38
Speaker 1: simple one, you know, just out of a couple of
23:40
Speaker 1: zip ties. So their hands are bound. That means that
23:44
Speaker 1: you can't use them. I know, that's GM Morgan. That's
23:47
Speaker 1: kind of obvious. Thanks for the insight. No, that's important
23:52
Speaker 1: when you begin to think about the causal effects of
23:54
Speaker 1: these babies deaths, because Dave, They're death have been ruled
24:02
Speaker 1: as a suffocation deaths. And you we've got to go
24:06
Speaker 1: back to the Dollar General bags that you mentioned, not
24:09
Speaker 1: that these are Dollar General bags, but some fact simile
24:13
Speaker 1: thereof if you're talking about, you know, some bag that
24:17
Speaker 1: they got at routs or whatever the local you know,
24:20
Speaker 1: grocery store is or wherever they came from. You've got
24:24
Speaker 1: these bags that have been utilized as a weapon. So
24:28
Speaker 1: these weaponized plastic bags. What do they always tell us
24:32
Speaker 1: as we're young parents about plastic bags and babies keep
24:36
Speaker 1: them away? Well, that's there's a lot of stuff I
24:40
Speaker 1: don't agree with that comes out comes out from various
24:42
Speaker 1: medical journals and all. That's what I happened to agree with.
24:46
Speaker 1: You don't. You don't leave a plastic bag and say
24:49
Speaker 1: a crib with a baby. You don't let older you know,
24:52
Speaker 1: you don't. You don't let kids play with plastic bags.
24:55
Speaker 1: The worst, the worst ones for years and years, believe
24:58
Speaker 1: it or not, Dave were dry because kid could put
25:02
Speaker 1: their whole body in these things, all right, oh wow,
25:06
Speaker 1: And they're not most of the time. They're not permeable.
25:09
Speaker 1: That means that they don't they don't breathe, It's what
25:13
Speaker 1: I'm saying. So you're not gonna it's not like not
25:16
Speaker 1: that this would be great, but it's not like it's
25:18
Speaker 1: a burlap sack over your head, right, you know where
25:21
Speaker 1: you've got little spaces where you might be able to
25:23
Speaker 1: uptake a bit more oxygen. No, no, no, this is
25:26
Speaker 1: sealed and day it wasn't. Here. Here's the other piece
25:31
Speaker 1: that we have found out two and they haven't said
25:37
Speaker 1: which ones yet. Two of these babies had been double
25:44
Speaker 1: backed over their heads. A third one was triple backed.
25:49
Speaker 1: What yeah, triple backed. So if if you guys know
25:54
Speaker 1: what Dave and I are talking about with, you know,
25:56
Speaker 1: if you go to any grocery store and they give
25:58
Speaker 1: you plastic bags, good for about one from moving your
26:02
Speaker 1: groceries from the trunk of your car, from the beat
26:04
Speaker 1: of your truck into the house. And after that, the
26:07
Speaker 1: structural continuity of these things breaks down really quick. So
26:11
Speaker 1: you know, and I was given us some thought, you know,
26:13
Speaker 1: before before you and I were going to chat today, brother,
26:16
Speaker 1: and I was thinking he was he was kind of
26:20
Speaker 1: if he if he is the one that did this,
26:22
Speaker 1: he's kind of triple checking everything, checking the boxes. This
26:27
Speaker 1: goes to intent, right, he's got these things he's doing.
26:31
Speaker 1: He knows that the bags will break, so he's got
26:33
Speaker 1: to get more than one there. And the way this
26:37
Speaker 1: happens is this becomes you know, i'd said suffocation. This
26:42
Speaker 1: is truly what's referred to as an oxygen deporavant event.
26:47
Speaker 1: So when you you enclose anybody into a small space
26:53
Speaker 1: like that and it's sealed, and yeah, a bag is
26:57
Speaker 1: a small space. There's very little room in there for
27:01
Speaker 1: uh for for oxygen at all. As a matter of fact,
27:05
Speaker 1: you'll have more before you stick your or have your
27:07
Speaker 1: head stuck in it because your head, the mass of
27:10
Speaker 1: your head displaces the oxygen that's in there, so it
27:13
Speaker 1: kind of runs it out. Then you hold that bag
27:16
Speaker 1: in place, and at some point in time, and it's
27:20
Speaker 1: pretty quickly you begin rebreathing your own expelled air, which
27:25
Speaker 1: course is carbon dioxide, and it's lethal. We can't it's
27:29
Speaker 1: not it's not that, it's not merely the fact that
27:32
Speaker 1: you're absent oxygen. It's now you're uptaking carbon dioxide. And
27:37
Speaker 1: it makes people very, very very sleepy, and that sort
27:40
Speaker 1: of thing. However, one of the problems is is that
27:44
Speaker 1: unless these girls were drugged in some way day, they
27:49
Speaker 1: would have an awareness because the primal brain kicks in
27:52
Speaker 1: and you begin struggling, you begin fighting, and let's just
27:57
Speaker 1: let's just talk about this just for a second. Is uncomfortable.
28:00
Speaker 1: This makes people feel. Just think anytime you've ever had
28:05
Speaker 1: something on your face, all right, the one reaction is
28:10
Speaker 1: not to walk over to a wall and rub rub
28:14
Speaker 1: the item off of your face. All right. You get
28:16
Speaker 1: I don't know, you get jelly on your beard, you're
28:20
Speaker 1: eating toast, or you know, you get a fly on
28:24
Speaker 1: your forehead, you walk through a cobweb, which unfortunately I
28:29
Speaker 1: seem to do more than any other human on the
28:31
Speaker 1: face of the planet. Your reaction is to draw your
28:34
Speaker 1: hands up and pull it away. Well, guess what was
28:38
Speaker 1: done to them. They couldn't fight. Those little wrists and
28:43
Speaker 1: very tiny wrists, by the way, were essentially cuffed with
28:50
Speaker 1: these zip ties and they are restrained at this point.
28:58
Speaker 1: That would indicate that this was not done post mortem. Okay,
29:02
Speaker 1: why are you going to zip tie the hands of
29:04
Speaker 1: the deceased? Well, you don't, you restrain them? What type
29:09
Speaker 1: of person, Dave, What type of person looks into the
29:12
Speaker 1: eyes of their child and says, give me your wrist,
29:18
Speaker 1: put your hands behind your back, and you hear that
29:22
Speaker 1: very distinctive sound of that zip tie being clicked click click,
29:28
Speaker 1: click click as it becomes more and more tight around
29:32
Speaker 1: the circumference of both of the wrist. And did he say, hey, girls,
29:38
Speaker 1: let's play a game. Is that how he enticed them
29:42
Speaker 1: to do it? I don't know, but I do know
29:45
Speaker 1: this based upon the information the police have just released,
29:49
Speaker 1: it seems that more and more the evidence is pointing
29:54
Speaker 1: toward Daddy. Most of the time, when we think about homicides,
30:11
Speaker 1: at least for me, even me at this stage in
30:13
Speaker 1: my career, you automatically think of a level of violence
30:20
Speaker 1: that's observable. You know, someone beaten to death, someone shot
30:25
Speaker 1: to death, someone stabbed to death, someone stomped to death,
30:29
Speaker 1: someone run over intentionally by a car, someone thrown off
30:32
Speaker 1: of a house. But you know, many times homicides can
30:36
Speaker 1: occur in very passive ways. You know, recently, Dave, you
30:41
Speaker 1: and I covered the mushroom level, you know, down in Australia,
30:46
Speaker 1: and that's kind of a passive homicides of poisoning. We've
30:49
Speaker 1: had other poisonings that we've covered, but Dave, I submit
30:53
Speaker 1: to you that this is it's a very passive form
30:59
Speaker 1: with a little bit of violence kicked in at the
31:01
Speaker 1: end because you have to if you're there while this
31:06
Speaker 1: is going on, and the perpetrator would have had to
31:08
Speaker 1: have been there, you're going to bear witness to struggle,
31:13
Speaker 1: struggles that most of us can't even begin to imagine.
31:16
Speaker 1: And these three little angels experience that experience that at
31:20
Speaker 1: this very young age job.
31:25
Speaker 2: I'm curious as to the planning that went into this
31:29
Speaker 2: from Decker's standpoint, and the reason is he had been
31:33
Speaker 2: abiding by the restrictions of the visitation, which was eight
31:37
Speaker 2: hours at a time, unsupervised, where he had to stay
31:40
Speaker 2: within the town limits and then he could come over
31:42
Speaker 2: four hours, you know, at a stretch there at the
31:44
Speaker 2: house or what have you. And he had been abiding
31:47
Speaker 2: by that, he had been living by the rules, and
31:49
Speaker 2: his ex wife said everything was fine. He seemed to
31:51
Speaker 2: be doing well with that. But the fact that he
31:55
Speaker 2: got them on the thirtieth and they were expecting a
31:59
Speaker 2: return as normal and it didn't happen. But when they,
32:02
Speaker 2: you know, went to where he had been, where they
32:04
Speaker 2: located his campsite that he had been staying. As we
32:07
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, we're not talking a long period of time.
32:11
Speaker 2: Wasn't like he had a plan to take the girls
32:13
Speaker 2: and leave. He had a plan to kill the girls.
32:15
Speaker 2: Because when they got their June second, they found three
32:18
Speaker 2: dead little girls, ages nine to eight and five. And
32:23
Speaker 2: that means to me that he went out. The whole
32:25
Speaker 2: thing was planned ahead of time. They I don't know
32:27
Speaker 2: how quickly he killed them. Had they been able to
32:29
Speaker 2: determine that, had they determined did he beat them? Did
32:32
Speaker 2: he torture them? What did he do to these girls?
32:35
Speaker 2: I mean suffocating? Okay, that and well, cuffing their hands
32:38
Speaker 2: all right, zip, tying their hands so they can't move.
32:40
Speaker 2: He's binding them. I don't know how you bind three girls.
32:43
Speaker 2: That's I mean, they're they're not easy.
32:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, can I take you back just for a moment,
32:49
Speaker 1: because I know that I know that he is an
32:52
Speaker 1: Army vess and I'm still unclear. I've heard people make
32:59
Speaker 1: comments and I have I have yet to be able
33:01
Speaker 1: to kind of verify it for myself solidly, because people
33:04
Speaker 1: can say any number of things. All you got to
33:06
Speaker 1: do is look at our episode of the Montaque boat
33:12
Speaker 1: death there and all kinds of crazy things get said.
33:16
Speaker 1: But let me just throw this out to you if
33:18
Speaker 1: at any point in time he went through survival, escape
33:22
Speaker 1: and evasion and resistance and evasion training. One of the
33:26
Speaker 1: things they do and they put you in a mock
33:29
Speaker 1: pow situation. They put a bag over your head and
33:32
Speaker 1: they bind you. They bind you with zip ties and
33:36
Speaker 1: that's part of the training. Where and it's and whether
33:40
Speaker 1: or not he went through the training or not. It's
33:43
Speaker 1: in a wilderness setting. I know the Special Operations in
33:49
Speaker 1: the Army they brag they go through Robin Sage, which
33:56
Speaker 1: is part of their training. They have to negotiate and
33:59
Speaker 1: all those sorts of things learning how to do that.
34:01
Speaker 1: And the Special Operators also have to go through seer training,
34:05
Speaker 1: which is it's pretty tough It's some of the toughest
34:08
Speaker 1: training you have to go through because you have to
34:09
Speaker 1: withstand interrogations and all that, and that idea of depriving
34:15
Speaker 1: an individual of movement and also their senses, like you,
34:19
Speaker 1: you don't know where sounds are coming from. You can't
34:22
Speaker 1: see anything. Now. I don't know if that was kind
34:25
Speaker 1: of imprinted in his brain. Maybe he thought that that
34:28
Speaker 1: was an expeditious way to end to end life. But
34:32
Speaker 1: I submit to you that he's at least aware of
34:35
Speaker 1: that and that he chose he chose this and chose allegedly,
34:40
Speaker 1: you know, if he is the perpetrator found, you know,
34:43
Speaker 1: left them out in those woods. I don't know that
34:47
Speaker 1: that's part of it that you know that I was
34:49
Speaker 1: thinking about all along, because I don't know what his
34:52
Speaker 1: level of training.
34:53
Speaker 2: I mean, you understand that then his military training. When
34:57
Speaker 2: you go into social media and you see other people
34:59
Speaker 2: that he was in service with and the commonality that
35:02
Speaker 2: they have. Decker had advanced infantry combat training. He was
35:10
Speaker 2: an airborne paratroop who earned his Elite Ranger tab. That
35:14
Speaker 2: means he has elite wilderness evasion training and survival skills.
35:19
Speaker 2: Those are a couple of the things that let you know.
35:22
Speaker 2: He also had different profiles that he talked about, being
35:28
Speaker 2: a qualified instructor in other issues of warfare, being training
35:35
Speaker 2: out and alone. I guess it's kind of what I'm
35:37
Speaker 2: after here. But we've got a guy who knows the
35:39
Speaker 2: wilderness is living in the wilderness, you know, as a
35:41
Speaker 2: way of life now as a homeless vet, and he
35:44
Speaker 2: has killed his girls obviously allegedly killed his girls with
35:48
Speaker 2: proper planning. It's not like he was trying to get
35:50
Speaker 2: away with them. He took them out of the woods
35:52
Speaker 2: to end their life and then did not take his own.
35:54
Speaker 2: He just took off running. Is it the idea? I mean,
35:57
Speaker 2: this goes back to Karen Stark and Bethany, but you know,
36:00
Speaker 2: was it? Well, if I can't have my girls all
36:02
Speaker 2: the time, nobody can.
36:04
Speaker 1: I mean I don't know the first things and the
36:07
Speaker 1: first things I thought of. You know, it's kind of
36:09
Speaker 1: like the shunned level if you will, you know that
36:13
Speaker 1: comes back, and you know, they just brutalize somebody that
36:17
Speaker 1: they perceive has rejected them or maybe did reject them,
36:20
Speaker 1: and they're going to destroy them. Well that and and
36:23
Speaker 1: why why exactly would he go after the girls and
36:26
Speaker 1: not after the right.
36:27
Speaker 2: Would little girls have ability to suffocate quickly or would
36:32
Speaker 2: it take them longer.
36:33
Speaker 1: To say they've got less less lung capacity? Man? And
36:37
Speaker 1: plus you've got to you've got a grown ass man
36:40
Speaker 1: with military training that probably has probably got significant grip strength.
36:46
Speaker 1: He can And this is another thing I'm curious about.
36:49
Speaker 1: How did how did he secure the bags because this
36:52
Speaker 1: is kind of ghastly. If you put those bags over
36:55
Speaker 1: their their heads, you can secure them on the neck.
37:00
Speaker 1: You can do it with tape, you could do it
37:02
Speaker 1: with another zip tie. You can hold it in place.
37:04
Speaker 1: And if you can't move your hands to remove the bag,
37:09
Speaker 1: situation will take care of itself momentarily. All right, Did
37:15
Speaker 1: he do that? Which they didn't say anything about anything
37:18
Speaker 1: around the neck, They just said bags over the head.
37:22
Speaker 1: That implies to me, Dave, that he held those bags
37:26
Speaker 1: in place one by one. Now, what was going on
37:31
Speaker 1: with the other kids that were still alive? When the
37:33
Speaker 1: first one dies? Did he take her off and kill
37:36
Speaker 1: her separately away from now you girls sit here, I'm
37:39
Speaker 1: going to go off with Sissy over here. Okay, kills
37:43
Speaker 1: her there, then takes the next one so for and
37:46
Speaker 1: so or did he kill them in front of one.
37:49
Speaker 1: I know, your mind can go to all these different places.
37:53
Speaker 1: Another thing that you would have evidence of would be
37:57
Speaker 1: in their own little way, there would be a mind struggle,
38:00
Speaker 1: So you would see evidence on the ground of not
38:03
Speaker 1: just these kind of scuffed footprints where they're resisting. You
38:08
Speaker 1: can see marks on the ground where they would struggle
38:10
Speaker 1: with their entire body kind of rolling. And somebody that's
38:12
Speaker 1: a trained observer of these kinds of things, it certainly
38:16
Speaker 1: wouldn't be me. They I've had them pointed out to me,
38:19
Speaker 1: it seems, but I'm no tracker or anything like that.
38:21
Speaker 1: It's amazing what these people can recreate, you know, and
38:25
Speaker 1: tell you the story by just the marks of the crown.
38:27
Speaker 1: It's amazing that that may have taken place there. And
38:32
Speaker 1: you know that soil, if you've ever been into the
38:35
Speaker 1: Cascade Range, that soil is very lonamy. It's you know,
38:40
Speaker 1: you're shielded from sunlight lots of times. If you're inside
38:43
Speaker 1: that canopy, it almost looks like twilight, you know, beneath
38:47
Speaker 1: that canopy of the trees and the ground's very soft.
38:53
Speaker 1: There might still be evidence of that that they picked up.
38:56
Speaker 1: I'm wondering about his footprints, you know, because they're going
38:58
Speaker 1: to be significantly out larger than these these babies.
39:02
Speaker 2: By the DNA, Joe, where did they find it? Where
39:05
Speaker 2: do they find DNA? From the girls?
39:06
Speaker 1: Here's the other here's the other piece To this day,
39:09
Speaker 1: that's so freaking disturbing. They found the DNA on the
39:15
Speaker 1: zip ties. Okay, so that tells me that he's not
39:20
Speaker 1: wearing gloves because if it's direct contact onto a zip tie,
39:25
Speaker 1: and that's a very Just look at a zip tie
39:27
Speaker 1: if you got one of your drawer or in your
39:29
Speaker 1: toolbox or whatever laying around the house, just look at
39:31
Speaker 1: the surface of it. There's not a lot of surface area,
39:34
Speaker 1: and so intensely manipulating these things, which you would have
39:40
Speaker 1: to do. Because I'm blind as a bat, I have
39:43
Speaker 1: a really difficult time finding a location where you insert
39:46
Speaker 1: it and then zip it. You know, it's kind of
39:48
Speaker 1: like threading a needle many times that requires incredible concentration
39:53
Speaker 1: and you're holding it. You tend to hold things tighter
39:55
Speaker 1: like that, and you're trying to manipulate them. So he
39:59
Speaker 1: would have pulled the TA when he if he's doing
40:01
Speaker 1: this bare handily, he has to anchor with one hand,
40:03
Speaker 1: pull with the other, pull it through and secure it down.
40:07
Speaker 1: Found that and the DNA there. There's also his DNA
40:15
Speaker 1: and this is per the police. His DNA on the
40:18
Speaker 1: bags as well. So this is going to rule out
40:21
Speaker 1: some third party that may have had something. And I
40:24
Speaker 1: don't think that you know, we've talked about touch DNA
40:27
Speaker 1: in the past day, where you know that's the sloughing
40:31
Speaker 1: of the skin cells that falls away. This isn't I
40:33
Speaker 1: don't think this is a passive thing.
40:35
Speaker 2: Okay.
40:36
Speaker 1: I think that there's a probability that well, a couple
40:42
Speaker 1: of things. We know that the bloody hand prints, Okay,
40:45
Speaker 1: did he cut himself doing something that could transfer onto
40:49
Speaker 1: the bag. Also, there's the element of sweat. People don't
40:53
Speaker 1: realize how DNA rich sweat is. And if you're struggling
41:00
Speaker 1: with your own child as they are restrained below you,
41:07
Speaker 1: you're having to hold that bag in place, I would
41:09
Speaker 1: imagine he would begin to sweat somewhat. And here's the
41:13
Speaker 1: other thing. When you grip think about if okay, let's
41:17
Speaker 1: just say you've got something valuable that's on a table.
41:21
Speaker 1: They're approximates the size of a human head. I don't know,
41:23
Speaker 1: like a vase. I'm sorry for all my fancy friends
41:26
Speaker 1: out there, of oz and you're trying to cover this
41:30
Speaker 1: thing in a bag. You're not necessarily just going to
41:33
Speaker 1: take the bag and hold it externally and pull it down.
41:38
Speaker 1: You'll wrap your hands around the inside of it and
41:40
Speaker 1: kind of grab it with a fist and pull it down,
41:42
Speaker 1: and then you'll take it and maybe tie it or
41:46
Speaker 1: put something else around it to secure it. Okay. I
41:49
Speaker 1: think his DNA could potentially be on the xterior and
41:52
Speaker 1: the interior of the back, and a lot of that's
41:55
Speaker 1: going to be coming from the sweat that's stripping off
41:58
Speaker 1: of his body, or maybe the blood they found on
42:01
Speaker 1: the blood thing is still a mystery. You know that
42:04
Speaker 1: we know that they had dogs out there. I don't know,
42:07
Speaker 1: because you know, you're thinking wilderness, you're thinking blood, You're
42:10
Speaker 1: thinking dogs. Did he have blood that trailed off after
42:15
Speaker 1: him as he's wandering off into the forest. I don't
42:19
Speaker 1: know that there's a lot of unanswered questions. I think,
42:23
Speaker 1: and this is kind of even more hopeless if the
42:26
Speaker 1: sin could be any more hopeless. I think that there
42:31
Speaker 1: is a possibility that he may no longer be with us,
42:37
Speaker 1: he may have wandered off and either if he had
42:41
Speaker 1: a weapon with him, and he you know, this guy's
42:44
Speaker 1: highly trained. He doesn't have to have a physical weapon
42:46
Speaker 1: with him to end himself. He could have wandered off
42:52
Speaker 1: and done any number of things out there, and I don't.
42:55
Speaker 1: And this place is so fast. Now, I'm not saying
42:59
Speaker 1: nobody misconstrue what I'm saying. I'm not saying this is
43:01
Speaker 1: the actual location where this happened. But all you got
43:05
Speaker 1: to do is think about DBE Cooper, Right, DBI Cooper
43:07
Speaker 1: came out of that airplane and no one saw hide
43:10
Speaker 1: in her hair of him. And we know that he
43:12
Speaker 1: had parachute. You know, he had all the cash they
43:15
Speaker 1: think they found. They found some of the cash embedded
43:18
Speaker 1: in a riverbed. I don't know if that was a
43:20
Speaker 1: Columbia or whatever it was, but that's you're still talking
43:23
Speaker 1: about the same kind of forested area like this. You know,
43:27
Speaker 1: the earth just swallows things.
43:28
Speaker 2: How long, Joe? I mean, look, you've you actually have
43:32
Speaker 2: mentioned to me we have had a common character in
43:35
Speaker 2: our world. Eric Robert Rudolph, the Olympic Park bomber in Atlanta,
43:41
Speaker 2: who also bombed in aborsing clinic in Birmingham. And you
43:45
Speaker 2: know he stayed gone for a long time. There was
43:48
Speaker 2: thoughts that maybe he had offered himself somewhere and things
43:51
Speaker 2: like that, but he actually was caught while he was
43:55
Speaker 2: in the midst of staying gone. How did how is
43:59
Speaker 2: he caught? How did they track him?
44:02
Speaker 1: I don't know. They had whole teams of people, and
44:04
Speaker 1: you know, I was part of that investigation, the Olympic
44:06
Speaker 1: Park bombing, and not that I had a grand insight
44:11
Speaker 1: into anything. You know, My focus was on the victim,
44:14
Speaker 1: who happened to be a school teacher. That was, you know,
44:16
Speaker 1: there an Olympic Olympic Park that night to hear the
44:20
Speaker 1: concerts Jack mac and the Heart Attack. I'll never forget it.
44:23
Speaker 1: They were performing on the band and on the stage
44:25
Speaker 1: and when you if you go back and look at
44:27
Speaker 1: that video, you see people the classic videos, people see
44:31
Speaker 1: in the stage and all of a sudden they react
44:33
Speaker 1: to the blast. They kind of look back to their
44:36
Speaker 1: right and that's when the blast went off at that tower,
44:39
Speaker 1: and it was constructed kind of like it's hard to
44:43
Speaker 1: describe as you've never been in the military, but an
44:45
Speaker 1: anti personnel mind kind of a clay more that kind
44:48
Speaker 1: of spreads out in a big fan. He'd used in
44:52
Speaker 1: This really shows my age. He used a backpack that
44:56
Speaker 1: the military used to used to carry you back in
44:59
Speaker 1: my day. It's called an Alice pack, and so he
45:02
Speaker 1: had packed it with all manner stuff, you know, bits
45:06
Speaker 1: of concrete, there were roofing nails, metal, metal, screws, everything,
45:12
Speaker 1: and so Alice, Alice Hawthorne was her name. I'll never
45:14
Speaker 1: forget that she caught one of those screws in the
45:18
Speaker 1: corner of her eye and it embedded in her cerebellum, traveled,
45:24
Speaker 1: you know, to the back of her brain, and killed
45:26
Speaker 1: her right there. She also has blast injuries to her arms.
45:31
Speaker 1: And we wanted to know, I remember back then, we
45:34
Speaker 1: wanted to know who had done this. And immediately, you know,
45:38
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of this, unfortunately, one of my favorite
45:44
Speaker 1: law enforcement heroes of all time, Richard Jewel, uh the
45:48
Speaker 1: Feds pointing the finger at him, and one of the
45:51
Speaker 1: most tragic stories in modern America. And I submit to
45:56
Speaker 1: you that he died as a result of having to
45:58
Speaker 1: go through that trauma. Watch that movie, by the way,
46:01
Speaker 1: if anybody's ever the clinics would movie about Richard Jewell.
46:04
Speaker 1: He's a very nice man. I met him a couple
46:07
Speaker 1: occasions before he finally died, and you know, they wanted
46:11
Speaker 1: to point the finger at him. He actually saved lives
46:13
Speaker 1: because he started moving people away from the device. He
46:16
Speaker 1: saw it, Richard saw it. He was doing his job.
46:19
Speaker 1: He was moving people away. Probably would have had more
46:21
Speaker 1: people die and the bag got reoriented and the blast
46:26
Speaker 1: kind of went up instead of out. If that bag
46:29
Speaker 1: had stayed in its original position, I think that we
46:34
Speaker 1: could have had hundreds we had and people forget about
46:37
Speaker 1: all the folks that were damaged that night too. There
46:39
Speaker 1: are people that still are dealing with scars and maladies
46:43
Speaker 1: that arose from that evening. But anyway back to you know,
46:48
Speaker 1: to Eric Rudolf, he was he had headed out for
46:53
Speaker 1: you know, for North Georgia and the North Carolina, the
46:57
Speaker 1: western North Carolina Mountains, made his way up there, and
47:01
Speaker 1: David was I can't remember the exact amount of time,
47:05
Speaker 1: but I know that the US Marshalls poured their resources
47:09
Speaker 1: into it, the FBI. I'd even heard rumors at one
47:12
Speaker 1: point time that certain elements were deployed from the military
47:17
Speaker 1: to aid and search. And these are people that are
47:20
Speaker 1: highly trained and they could never turn anything up. And
47:26
Speaker 1: it just goes to show you you never know how
47:29
Speaker 1: life is going to work out because he was found
47:31
Speaker 1: in the back. I think it was like a seven
47:33
Speaker 1: eleven in the middle of the night in this little
47:38
Speaker 1: town that's just right over the Georgia North Carolina border
47:41
Speaker 1: up into the mountains in North Carolina, dumpster diving, and
47:47
Speaker 1: deputy that night was on patrol. It was I think
47:50
Speaker 1: it was a Sunday night, pitch black, and he sees
47:53
Speaker 1: this guy in the back of the dumpster and I
47:55
Speaker 1: might be getting story all messed up at this point
47:57
Speaker 1: in time, It's been so many years. But he he
48:00
Speaker 1: confronts this guy and the guy looks at him says,
48:04
Speaker 1: I'm Eric Rudolf. You imagined. I mean, everybody, the most
48:09
Speaker 1: skilled people in the world have been looking for this
48:11
Speaker 1: guy coming to the mountains, and this deputy in this
48:14
Speaker 1: little town up there, you know, happens to come across
48:17
Speaker 1: this guy. You never know what's going to happen. You
48:19
Speaker 1: never know what's going to happen with Travis Decker. I
48:22
Speaker 1: don't know that he will ever be found. I know
48:25
Speaker 1: that they have in this sadly, I know that the
48:30
Speaker 1: government has pulled back some of the resources at this point.
48:34
Speaker 1: I don't know what that's an indication of some thought
48:38
Speaker 1: that he was headed over into Idaho and was going
48:41
Speaker 1: to try to cross the border. People have thought that
48:45
Speaker 1: maybe he was going to try to cross the border
48:46
Speaker 1: into Canada through Idaho and that little sliver up there
48:50
Speaker 1: that you know runs that distance on our common border there.
48:54
Speaker 1: I don't know that we will ever find him, but
48:58
Speaker 1: I can tell you this, The world, I can almost
49:04
Speaker 1: assuredly tell you, is a much much darker place absent
49:11
Speaker 1: these three precious little souls. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and
49:18
Speaker 1: this is body Backs.