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What We Think, We Become: How traffic safety knowledge influences driver behavior. · Thinking Transportation: Engaging Conversations about Transportation Innovations

• 0:15
  Bernie Fette (host): Welcome to Thinking Transportation-- conversations about how we get ourselves and our stuff from one place to another, and what it takes to make that happen.
• 0:26
  Bernie Fette (host): I'm Bernie Fette with the Texas A&M Transportation Institute.
• 0:32
  Bernie Fette: How we drive depends a lot on how we think.
• 0:36
  Bernie Fette: How well we understand traffic laws, what we consider to be safe or risky, and just the routine matters that occupy our daily mental activity.
• 0:44
  Bernie Fette: Altogether, these influence our every move when we get behind the wheel.
• 0:50
  Bernie Fette: It helps to understand all we can about those thoughts and actions and how they might change over time.
• 0:58
  Bernie Fette: That's one focus of the work that Katie Womack does for TTI.
• 1:02
  Bernie Fette: She's our guest for this episode, and she's here to help us make sense of what Texas drivers are thinking and how that might affect what they're doing.
• 1:12
  Bernie Fette: Thanks for sharing your time with us, Katie.
• 1:14
  Katie Womack (guest): You're welcome.
• 1:15
  Bernie Fette: I know that you've been studying human driver behavior for quite a few years, and doing this study now for 10 years.
• 1:29
  Bernie Fette: So can you just start by telling us briefly what you're doing with this particular survey and why?
• 1:39
  Katie Womack: We have a focus in Texas, as well as other states do, on behaviors that put passengers and drivers in motor vehicles at risk and especially during heavy travel periods, like during the summer or during holiday periods.
• 1:57
  Katie Womack: And so, even though there are traffic safety programs that go on throughout the year, we sometimes ratchet up those programs to get people's attention.
• 2:07
  Katie Womack: And so this is the case where things like Click It or Ticket and Distracted Driving Awareness Month and Child Passenger Safety Month.
• 2:17
  Katie Womack: And so what this study is doing is taking a cross-sectional look across time, a repeated cross-sectional survey, and it's funded by the Texas Department of Transportation, to get a snapshot in time and compare that from year to year.
• 2:35
  Katie Womack: So this is the Traffic Safety Attitudes and Awareness Survey.
• 2:39
  Katie Womack: We began it in 2010 and we repeat it annually.
• 2:44
  Katie Womack: And with this survey, we've been able to measure changes over time for a few variables that are of interest to, us and TxDOT.
• 2:54
  Bernie Fette: So it sounds like there's a couple of ways to look at the findings here.
• 2:58
  Bernie Fette: One is to look at how our year of the pandemic compared with the year before and another is to examine more broadly across the entire 10 years.
• 3:07
  Bernie Fette: And I'm hoping we can do both, starting with you can talk about that COVID effect on our driving environment and behaviors and such?
• 3:15
  Katie Womack: Yes, of course.
• 3:16
  Katie Womack: This year was particularly interesting because of the dramatic changes in the traffic environment.
• 3:23
  Katie Womack: These changes were associated with the pandemic, that there were so many elements that were affected, not just the traffic on the roadways, but also the enforcement focus, the priorities, the way enforcement occurred, and then not to mention the safety outreach and the program efforts that were affected or curtailed in fact, by the pandemic.
• 3:46
  Bernie Fette: And when you say programs, you're talking a lot of that is, is the advertising we see on billboards and radio and TV messages?
• 3:54
  Katie Womack: I am talking about that, but I'm also talking about the many outreach efforts that have to do with education and, you know, the spread of the safety messages in person.
• 4:05
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 4:05
  Katie Womack: That, of course, also had to be curtailed.
• 4:09
  Katie Womack: Many of the traffic safety program efforts are in person with groups, educational activities, teaching moments, all of those kinds of outreach activities.
• 4:21
  Katie Womack: So we had 10 years of prior data from 2010 to 2019, and then we have this exceptional 2020 to look at.
• 4:30
  Bernie Fette: What, if anything, in that one-year comparison surprised you?
• 4:34
  Bernie Fette: Did you have any moments of, wow, I didn't see that coming?
• 4:38
  Katie Womack: You know what, I need to preface this by talking about how the survey itself changed.
• 4:44
  Katie Womack: Because one big thing that changed for us was also impacted by the pandemic, which was how we did the survey.
• 4:52
  Katie Womack: In those 10 years prior, we were doing that survey in a person-to-person setting.
• 4:59
  Katie Womack: So we would ask folks who were waiting for service at the driver license office, if they would take a few moments to do a pen and paper survey.
• 5:06
  Katie Womack: It's a short survey.
• 5:09
  Katie Womack: And most of the time people were very willing to do it for us.
• 5:13
  Katie Womack: And this happened all across the state.
• 5:15
  Katie Womack: Well, of course, with the pandemic, we weren't able to take that approach.
• 5:21
  Katie Womack: First, because the DL offices were not even open to the public.
• 5:25
  Katie Womack: And secondly, we weren't able to hand people paper or anything and get close to them and ask them to do a survey for us.
• 5:34
  Bernie Fette: Right.
• 5:34
  Katie Womack: So the long and the short of it was that we ended up converting to an online survey.
• 5:39
  Katie Womack: And so our sample, the way we got our sample, is completely different from walking up to people and asking them.
• 5:46
  Katie Womack: So these folks who answered in 2020 self-selected in.
• 5:50
  Katie Womack: They were a panel of folks from across the state throughout all the regions of the state.
• 5:57
  Katie Womack: We did survey the same number of respondents, but it's a bit of a different cross-section.
• 6:04
  Katie Womack: And so that was one thing that changed for us was this broader representativeness.
• 6:10
  Bernie Fette: Give us a sense of what sort of major distinctions, major changes that are highlights that you saw from that 2019 to 2020 comparison, in terms of the awareness and behaviors that you were measuring.
• 6:23
  Katie Womack: You had asked me earlier, if I was surprised by anything.
• 6:27
  Katie Womack: One of the things that was somewhat reassuring was that the changes weren't as dramatic as we might have been fearful of.
• 6:36
  Katie Womack: You know, if we saw some really odd changes in what people were reporting, we would be asking ourselves if the sample was completely different from our past 10 years of samples, that we see some similar trends, some consistency, and some comparability.
• 6:53
  Katie Womack: The things that we did notice that changed, we'll have to have another year of doing it in this online way to see, you know, how consistent those patterns stay, using this method.
• 7:08
  Bernie Fette: I understand what you said about the lack of significant change is giving you some reassurance that the change in methodology did not throw your findings off.
• 7:18
  Bernie Fette: But what I'm wondering is, is there anything noteworthy in terms of awareness changes, behavior changes from 2019 to 2020, that could have been pandemic related?
• 7:31
  Katie Womack: One thing that was not surprising at all was the awareness of enforcement.
• 7:37
  Katie Womack: So, as I mentioned earlier, we tend to do these surveys around periods of increased activity, whether that's media messaging, or enforcement or outreach.
• 7:50
  Katie Womack: And so what we like to do is get a measurement of how successful those are in reaching the public.
• 7:57
  Katie Womack: Well, in 2020, we found a dip in the percentage of people who said that they were aware of some increased enforcement, and that is not surprising at all because in fact campaigns like Click It or Ticket were not conducted at the usual time in 2020.
• 8:16
  Katie Womack: That May mobilization that usually occurs around Memorial Day was shifted to the fall.
• 8:23
  Katie Womack: So when people said,"No, I haven't really heard about any Click It or Ticket or increased enforcement in the last few months," they were right on target.
• 8:34
  Bernie Fette: There was a good reason for that because it wasn't happening.
• 8:38
  Katie Womack: Yeah.
• 8:38
  Katie Womack: And that's not to say that enforcement wasn't happening and that, you know, some messages, but as far as the statewide and the national mobilization.
• 8:47
  Bernie Fette: Yeah, the emphasis wasn't there, or it was lessened in comparison.
• 8:51
  Katie Womack: Yeah.
• 8:51
  Katie Womack: And one thing that was interesting, that kind of again, was reassuring, was a part of that question.
• 8:57
  Katie Womack: A follow- up is, have you heard about enforcement within the past year?
• 9:02
  Katie Womack: And that percentage was really consistent from 2019 to 2020.
• 9:08
  Katie Womack: So the message was still there.
• 9:10
  Katie Womack: The people in Texas had heard it in the past and recalled it.
• 9:16
  Bernie Fette: Other states do this kind of survey too, don't they?
• 9:19
  Katie Womack: Yes.
• 9:19
  Katie Womack: There are many other states who do attitude and awareness surveys from year to year.
• 9:24
  Bernie Fette: And because of the guidelines that you're given by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, there is some consistency from one state to another in terms of how those surveys are put together, right?
• 9:36
  Katie Womack: Yes.
• 9:37
  Katie Womack: There are some core questions that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration likes to keep consistent from state to state, so that there is the ability to put those together and also make comparisons.
• 9:50
  Bernie Fette: You said comparisons, which is exactly where I was going.
• 9:52
  Bernie Fette: I was wondering if we have any idea of how Texas compares with other states, especially in these four areas that are common in the survey from one state to another.
• 10:03
  Katie Womack: Well, I can't really drill down and to, you know, our data versus other states' data in this kind of this format, exactly.
• 10:12
  Katie Womack: I sound like Texas bragging here, but we're fortunate to have a very high seatbelt use rate.
• 10:17
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 10:17
  Katie Womack: And a high awareness of the seatbelt mandate and pretty high perception of enforcement.
• 10:28
  Katie Womack: And I think that compares favorably with other states, particularly where the rates are lower.
• 10:33
  Katie Womack: You can see that it tracks pretty well between what people perceive as enforcement and the likelihood of getting a citation if you're not wearing a seatbelt, or if you drive impaired or if you're speeding.
• 10:45
  Katie Womack: Those kinds of things show up in a state where, you know, the behaviors are on the high side or the compliance side compared to states where they have a little more work to do.
• 10:58
  Bernie Fette: I'm glad that you brought up the seatbelt thing because you mentioned bragging about Texas, but it's really not bragging if it's true.
• 11:05
  Bernie Fette: And I say that because the seatbelt use level is at what, 98 percent?
• 11:11
  Katie Womack: Oh, that's the self-reported on this survey.
• 11:14
  Katie Womack: Now, when you ask people to tell how often they either always, or almost always wear their seatbelt, that's where we get the 98 percent.
• 11:24
  Katie Womack: And that has been relatively constant over the 10, now 11 years, that we've been doing the survey.
• 11:32
  Bernie Fette: How does that number compare with your observational studies?
• 11:37
  Katie Womack: Our observational surveys indicate that the use rate in Texas is closer to 90 percent.
• 11:44
  Bernie Fette: Ah, okay.
• 11:44
  Katie Womack: So those who say almost always must be the ones that we're seeing out there that maybe not to be wearing their belt when we see them.
• 11:56
  Bernie Fette: And I think there's an interesting question there, is why the disparity between the 98 percent plus who say that they always or almost always wear it, but in reality, the number is closer to 90 percent.
• 12:09
  Katie Womack: Well, a couple of things can contribute to that.
• 12:11
  Katie Womack: One is, we're looking at the driver and the front seat passenger when we do our surveys where we get the 90 percent.
• 12:22
  Katie Womack: And so not all of them are over 18, which are all of our survey respondents had to be adults.
• 12:28
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 12:28
  Katie Womack: So we get some passengers that kind of contribute to the overall rate.
• 12:34
  Katie Womack: And we're asking them when they drive, how often they wear their seatbelt.
• 12:39
  Katie Womack: Another thing is that people tend to kind of over self-report and that's true for almost any kind of behavior that's socially acceptable or unacceptable.
• 12:52
  Katie Womack: And so what you do is you kind of account for that by looking at it from year to year and, and recognizing that you're going to have a little bit of, I would say, padding in there for the over-reporting.
• 13:04
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 13:05
  Bernie Fette: Let's step back if we can, and take a little bit more expansive look at things at that 10-year period.
• 13:11
  Bernie Fette: In what areas have you noticed the biggest changes over the past decade?
• 13:17
  Katie Womack: Well, you know, the shifts have been subtle.
• 13:20
  Katie Womack: But generally a healthy majority do hear and recognize the don't drink and drive messages.
• 13:29
  Katie Womack: So, at least three-quarters of the sample every year say they're aware of the stepped-up efforts, especially during the summer to curb impaired driving.
• 13:41
  Katie Womack: And they do believe that there's a likelihood that if they drink and drive, that they could get pulled over.
• 13:47
  Katie Womack: So, we did see this past year though, a little bit of a dip in that.
• 13:54
  Katie Womack: There was this shift in the perception of the DWI enforcement in 2020.
• 14:02
  Katie Womack: Let me just say that in 2019, 11 percent of our survey sample said that they had not heard of any kind of increased enforcement of DWI, but in 2020, the percent who said they hadn't heard of it was 21 percent and that's a pretty dramatic shift.
• 14:21
  Bernie Fette: What does that tell you?
• 14:23
  Katie Womack: I think that it goes back to across those three major traffic safety concerns-- the speeding, seatbelt, and impaired driving-- that there was a decreased level of awareness of enforcement.
• 14:38
  Katie Womack: And that's because partly those major campaigns that the shift, the shift in the emphasis.
• 14:46
  Katie Womack: I'm not saying that they didn't still enforce the traffic laws, but there were other things that were competing for the attention of the Texas public at the time, in terms of what was happening on the roadways.
• 15:01
  Katie Womack: And with regard to enforcement of the usual traffic safety campaigns that are going on in the summer.
• 15:08
  Katie Womack: And we remember people were staying at home, there was the stay-at-home mandate about the time that t his survey was going on.
• 15:18
  Katie Womack: So when they said they weren't sure, or they weren't aware, there were c ompeting things going on.
• 15:25
  Bernie Fette: And that goes back to some of those distinctions you mentioned about the shift from 2019 to the pandemic year.
• 15:31
  Bernie Fette: What are some of the other areas where things stood out for you in looking at a 10-year trend?
• 15:38
  Katie Womack: Well, I want to point out that a common practice in Texas and elsewhere is speeding.
• 15:46
  Katie Womack: And in our survey, this is phrased as you know, how often do you go over 15 miles an hour over the speed limit?
• 15:55
  Katie Womack: And this is admitted to, by almost half of the respondents each year.
• 16:01
  Katie Womack: In other words, less than half say they never speed by more than 15 miles an hour over the speed limit.
• 16:08
  Katie Womack: So we have other questions that put it a little bit more focused.
• 16:12
  Katie Womack: For example, on a local road that's 30 miles an hour speed limit, how often do you go 35 on it?
• 16:20
  Katie Womack: And this one has been around 9 percent from year to year throughout the 11-year period.
• 16:29
  Katie Womack: So on a higher-speed road, one that's 70 miles an hour, the question would be, how often do you go 75?
• 16:37
  Katie Womack: And most of the time, well, starting in 2010, that percentage was 7 percent who said that they regularly go over 75.
• 16:46
  Katie Womack: Now that has crept up over the years, starting in 2010, like I said, it started at 7 percent.
• 16:53
  Katie Womack: In 2018 it was 10 percent.
• 16:54
  Katie Womack: In 2020, it was 11 percent.
• 16:59
  Katie Womack: Now that may not sound like very much, but if you look at over a 11-year period going from 7 percent to 11 percent who say that they regularly speed, that's something to pay attention to, I believe.
• 17:14
  Bernie Fette: And that was for the higher-speed roadways.
• 17:17
  Bernie Fette: Was the same thing true for neighborhood streets where speed limits are typically around 30 miles an hour?
• 17:22
  Bernie Fette: I mean, did the high- speed speeders and the lower-speed speeders both increase over that period?
• 17:28
  Katie Womack: No, not to the same extent.
• 17:29
  Katie Womack: On, on the lower-speed roadways, it's remained fairly constant at around 9 percent.
• 17:36
  Katie Womack: Another thing that I really wanted to talk about was the common practice reported every year is cell phone use.
• 17:43
  Katie Womack: And this is something that we've been tracking, both the self-reported use and the awareness of the laws regarding cell phone use.
• 17:54
  Katie Womack: This is the most common traffic safety risk behavior that people say they do relative to the others that we survey about.
• 18:02
  Bernie Fette: Has that behavior increased over that 10-year period then?
• 18:06
  Katie Womack: Well, it's been consistently higher than all the others, but what I want to point out is that both cell phone use for talking, using your cell phone and self-reported texting were down in 2020.
• 18:18
  Katie Womack: This was a pretty dramatic, and I would say surprising, finding.
• 18:24
  Katie Womack: So this may mark the beginning of the change in this behavior.
• 18:28
  Katie Womack: Again, we'll need to see what happens in 2021 to know if it was sample-related, pandemic-related, or if maybe, you know, there's a shift in the cell phone use and texting behavior.
• 18:43
  Bernie Fette: I know that this wasn't part of the study that we're talking about, but you also measure compliance with laws concerning seatbelts.
• 18:49
  Bernie Fette: We mentioned that briefly a little while ago, and the use of child safety seats, your observational studies.
• 18:55
  Bernie Fette: Do you plan to look at the pandemic impacts or the year-to-year comparison on those things as well?
• 19:03
  Katie Womack: So, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration did waive the requirement to do a statewide seatbelt survey in 2020 because of the pandemic.
• 19:15
  Katie Womack: And so, Texas did accept that waiver and we didn't do one in 2020.
• 19:19
  Bernie Fette: Uh-huh.
• 19:19
  Katie Womack: We were able to go out at various points to do some curbside traffic observational surveys of seatbelt use and passenger seat use.
• 19:33
  Katie Womack: And so we do have some data on that for last year and this year.
• 19:38
  Katie Womack: We're still analyzing it.
• 19:39
  Katie Womack: Again, I'm not so sure that I would point to this is a pandemic impact.
• 19:46
  Katie Womack: In some of our surveys, we did notice a decrease in seatbelt use in our surveys this year that were done earlier in the year.
• 19:56
  Katie Womack: Now these are early indications that maybe a different population was out are, you know, that we were observing different folks from what is typical.
• 20:07
  Katie Womack: So we just finished in June, the statewide survey and that's being analyzed now.
• 20:14
  Katie Womack: And so we'll get a better picture of how that survey compares with the 2019 survey.
• 20:21
  Katie Womack: And I think that'll show us really where we are.
• 20:24
  Bernie Fette: And so even if there were changes from 2019 to 2020, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were pandemic influenced or pandemic related.
• 20:33
  Katie Womack: We like to say, when we noticed that the behavior was different, we would tend to say is because everything is different.
• 20:38
  Bernie Fette: Right.
• 20:38
  Katie Womack: Because people out there are different.
• 20:42
  Katie Womack: It's hard to know if people's behavior changed, or if the people changed that we were observing.
• 20:49
  Bernie Fette: You work in a field that seems like it's frequently fascinating, but also occasionally might be kind of disheartening.
• 20:58
  Bernie Fette: I mean, after all, human driver behavior often turns out in ways that are tragic.
• 21:03
  Bernie Fette: People get hurt, people die every day.
• 21:07
  Bernie Fette: So in the face of that reality, what keeps you motivated for the work that you do?
• 21:13
  Katie Womack: In the whole scheme of things in the traffic safety arena and the efforts to make Texas roads safer for everyone, I would say that what I do is very much a supporting role.
• 21:27
  Katie Womack: I would also say that I do think it's a very important role.
• 21:32
  Katie Womack: We're really fortunate in Texas to have this sustaining interest in what people do and what they think, and not just throwing money at the problem or cracking down, but also measuring and evaluating those programs.
• 21:48
  Katie Womack: Being able to study these attitudes and awareness patterns over a long period of time and quantify them is a way to say, hey, this is working or that the people know you're out there.
• 22:01
  Katie Womack: And the data indicates sometimes that there's a need for more attention in this area or that area, or among this population segment.
• 22:10
  Katie Womack: And so, you know, asking people what they think about a serious and worthwhile subject to me is a worthy purpose and getting their participation in the outcome and being part of that feedback loop is gratifying.
• 22:26
  Katie Womack: It's not just a really good thing to do.
• 22:28
  Katie Womack: It's also, as you say, really interesting.
• 22:32
  Katie Womack: For me personally, it's gratifying and it has been gratifying to witness some of the shifts in driver attitudes and awareness of traffic safety over the long term.
• 22:44
  Katie Womack: And I'm just glad to be a part of it in this supporting role.
• 22:51
  Bernie Fette: So after 10 years of doing this particular part of your research, what's the one thing that stands out for you.
• 23:00
  Bernie Fette: And I'm not necessarily talking about a single behavior from the research, but bigger and more broadly, is there a unifying or all-encompassing impression that you take away from a decade of learning what drivers think and what they do?
• 23:19
  Katie Womack: You know, I really don't think there's a single nugget, you know, that I would want to summarize in one sentence what the takeaway is because each element of what we're looking at is so different.
• 23:30
  Katie Womack: You know, a couple of things come to mind.
• 23:33
  Katie Womack: We didn't talk about the recognition of the campaigns, but that's a big part of our survey too, is how often do they recognize them?
• 23:41
  Katie Womack: Do they know what they mean?
• 23:44
  Katie Womack: I think that that's something to walk away with is which ones are successful, which ones are less being heard and where they're positioned and where they might be better positioned.
• 23:55
  Katie Womack: And then, too, we also had the opportunity with these kinds of surveys when the laws are changed or something's added it's, if it's strengthened, for example, the seat belt law in 2009 was extended to the backseat.
• 24:09
  Katie Womack: So we knew at that point, what percentage of people knew about the requirement that drivers and front seat passengers had to buckle up.
• 24:18
  Katie Womack: But how, how do we know over time, that year, and then going forward, how many people knew about the backseat?
• 24:26
  Katie Womack: And so, those kinds of things that really need to be studied, those are some of the takeaways, you know, that we can show that these laws are having an impact and they're important to strengthen.
• 24:39
  Katie Womack: And here's the results when you do strengthen them.
• 24:43
  Bernie Fette: We were talking earlier about whether or not the cell phone use, uh, as a consistently high number of people who admit to engaging in that risk.
• 24:54
  Bernie Fette: And I know you said that you can't really look at one year and say that this could be the turning of a tide.
• 24:59
  Bernie Fette: For a point of comparison, you mentioned how laws can change and be strengthened over time.
• 25:08
  Bernie Fette: I think it was somewhere in the mid'80s when Texas changed the law, making it illegal to have an open container of a alcoholic beverage in the car when you're driving.
• 25:20
  Bernie Fette: Impaired driving, over time, became a socially unacceptable behavior.
• 25:25
  Katie Womack: I would certainly agree with that.
• 25:27
  Katie Womack: Yes.
• 25:28
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 25:29
  Bernie Fette: So I wonder if the same would have to happen for cell phone use and texting while driving.
• 25:37
  Bernie Fette: If we have to get to a point where it is just increasingly socially unacceptable before we start to see the same decrease in incidents in the same way that we have seen a decrease in incidents of drunk driving over the years.
• 25:51
  Bernie Fette: Is that a reasonable expectation-- or a reasonable hope?
• 25:57
  Katie Womack: It's a reasonable hope.
• 25:58
  Katie Womack: It's a reasonable question but it's also quite complex.
• 26:02
  Katie Womack: And I say that our survey shows as well as many other surveys show that as you say, drinking and driving is socially unacceptable.
• 26:11
  Katie Womack: The risks are known and appreciated, or at least recognized by most people.
• 26:18
  Katie Womack: And the same is true, maybe not to the same extent, but to a large extent, we find that people do recognize that texting is dangerous and even are aware that there are, is a ban in Texas on texting and driving.
• 26:35
  Katie Womack: But what we find, and this is true not just in Texas, but elsewhere, is that people do believe that despite that, that they can text and drive.
• 26:45
  Katie Womack: They know it's not safe.
• 26:48
  Katie Womack: They know it's not socially acceptable.
• 26:49
  Katie Womack: But they still continue to do it.
• 26:52
  Katie Womack: And that's kind of a whole other topic.
• 26:55
  Bernie Fette: Right.
• 26:55
  Bernie Fette: I guess we could have a full episode just on that question.
• 26:57
  Katie Womack: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Katie Womack: Yeah.
• 26:59
  Katie Womack: That goes into the safety culture.
• 27:02
  Katie Womack: You know, what's acceptable, what's unacceptable.
• 27:04
  Katie Womack: And what do you do?
• 27:06
  Katie Womack: And this is one of those quandaries that we find in this survey over and over is there's a high unacceptability rating for texting and driving, but then there's also a kind of an unacceptable level of folks who still say that they do it.
• 27:20
  Bernie Fette: Maybe some of it is, it's dangerous for everybody else, but I'm a better driver so I can handle it.
• 27:27
  Katie Womack: Well, that's what I've seen in the literature.
• 27:29
  Katie Womack: That that's a possible explanation.
• 27:32
  Bernie Fette: So, there's a certain amount of"Do as I say, not as I do."
• 27:34
  Katie Womack: Yes.
• 27:34
  Bernie Fette: Thank you for doing this, Katie.
• 27:39
  Katie Womack: Well, thank you, Bernie, for inviting me.
• 27:41
  Katie Womack: It was certainly a pleasure.
• 27:45
  Bernie Fette: Everything about how we drive is a product of what we know.
• 27:49
  Bernie Fette: From the moment that we settle into the driver's seat, our thoughts dictate decisions that hold bona fide life-and-death consequences for ourselves, our passengers, and everyone else with whom we share the roads.
• 28:04
  Bernie Fette: Engineering, enforcement, and education can go a long way in making those roads safer.
• 28:09
  Bernie Fette: But ultimately it's often the consciousness and culture of the driving population that can bring about the most meaningful and lasting safety improvements.
• 28:19
  Bernie Fette: That's why it's so important to measure and more thoroughly understand how that traffic safety culture can evolve over time.
• 28:30
  Bernie Fette: Thanks for listening.
• 28:31
  Bernie Fette: We hope you'll be back for the next episode, when we visit with Beverly Kuhn.
• 28:37
  Bernie Fette: Beverly is an expert in connected transportation, and also in the connections that are necessary to developing and growing the next generation of transportation professionals.
• 28:48
  Bernie Fette: Thinking Transportation is a production of the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, a member of the Texas A&M University System.
• 28:57
  Bernie Fette: The show is edited and produced by Chris Pourteau.
• 28:59
  Bernie Fette: I'm your writer and host, Bernie Fette.
• 29:03
  Bernie Fette: Thanks again for listening.
• 29:05
  Bernie Fette: We'll see you next time.