Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / One Leg Up With CEO Jocelyne Morin-Nurse 11-16-23

Transcript

One Leg Up With CEO Jocelyne Morin-Nurse 11-16-23 · OneLegUpAlex Media

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Well, two very busy people that have found a moment to talk. I
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am so glad to have Jocelyn morin nurse and oh my gosh, I find
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you on pod match. I love your story and I love that you are
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a CEO, and I love telling the CEOs on my podcast One leg Up.
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And so thanks for joining my show. Of course, thank you so
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much for inviting me. I'm really excited to be talking with you. Your
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story stuck out to me because you've really risen through the ranks and whatnot.
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But tell us about lux Just tell us about your story. Yeah, well,
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it's kind of interesting. I don't have one of those linear stories.
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You know. Some people they know exactly what they're going to do. They
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study business, they end up working for a company and then rising through the
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ranks, and that's how they end up where they end up. I was
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not that at all. So I actually have a agreen translation. And then
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I studied screenwriting, and for a while I was an actor and I was
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doing all these things. But I always had a passion for leadership. I
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just didn't recognize it as such. And what I also didn't understand that I
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understand today is through everything that I was doing. I was seeking to have
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impact. I wanted to somehow positively impact the lives of others. And it's
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only when I joined the software company. I was actually growing my writing business
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and I joined them essentially and as an executive assistant. But then I discovered
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just how much I could impact and just how much I understood about business.
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I had been a manager before, I had been in various positions before,
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so it's not like I was brand new to business. But this was not
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what I was intending to do. And then eventually I became director of Accounts
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and content, and then they asked me to be their COO, and eventually
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they asked me to become their CEO. And it was in working with various
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professionals like CFOs and senior accountants that I really found this love and said,
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yes, this is my place. And then I was like, I need
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to expand. And then I created my own business, which is now WB
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certified so Women Business Enterprise Certified. Very proud of that. And it was
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in founding my own company and saying, you know what, I want to
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teach leaders how to be more positively impactful, and that's my true passion and
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that's how I ended up where I ended up. Well, obviously you are
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called the architect of success, and I'm kind of wondering how. I mean,
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how are you able to oh, how do you build success within your
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company and others as well? I think it comes with being true to your
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own values, and I'm going to say there are various ways of doing it,
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and success is relative, right, for one person's success is owning three
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houses and ten cars and all these things. For me, success and why
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I was given that, who I was called that it was to make a
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business profitable, helping it grow while still being respectful of individuals. So it's
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building a business that is all about profits and people because if we focus too
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much in my opinion, and again you know that's that's it varies from one
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person to the other. But just for me, it's about how do we
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ensure that we have a business that is financially successful so that we can create
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an environment that is going to empower individuals and lead them to be like the
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next generation of leaders, positive leaders. I know you're very excited to be
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women business owned service fight as well, but what's it mean to be a
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CEO? I mean, is there is there a special feeling that comes with
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the tilight. I get to ask that. It's interesting because some people,
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really, I'm gonna say, build their identity around those three letters. For
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me, it's a sense of accomplishment. For sure, I've worked very very
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hard. I've given a lot of myself and it reflects the level of responsibility
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that I have, and that does come with a lot of stressors, and
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it does come with a lot of sleepless nights, And at the same time,
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it's the level of impact that I'm able to have. So I'm very,
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very proud, of course, of everything that I've achieved and how I
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got myself there. But I'm particularly proud that I didn't get myself there by
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stepping on other people. I didn't get myself there by backstabbing or manipulating or
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doing all these things. No, I got there by being true to my
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own values, which is be myself, so be authentic, genuinely care about
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people, and find that balance between the organizational needs and the people needs,
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because there are people who focus too much on the people needs and then the
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business just falls apart. So if you don't have a revenue generating business that
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you are sustaining, then you can't do anything for the people. So it's
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really understanding that it's not about greed. Well that's the and you sound like
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you're a people person in your everyday life and it shows. And then you
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have this other whole thing with the coaching. So how do you combine the
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software with the coaching? Is there a combination? Do you keep them separate
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or what? I keep them separate? Got I have to, But it's
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really breaking out the calendar and saying, Okay, these are my core CEO
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hours at the software company, and this is when I do the coaching and
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leadership and team training and all those things. But they do feed into each
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other in the sense that the experience that I gain bleed into what I teach.
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And I have a podcast and so on YouTube. I put out videos
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every other week and we're on leadership and training. And I'm gonna say,
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I was gonna say sometimes, okay, no, a lot of the times
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it's inspired by my own frustrations, you know, things that I'm like,
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I don't even know what to do right now. You know what, this
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would be a good episode because I'm struggling with this right now. So let's
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do an episode on what could I do to deal with these things. You
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know. I love about that is I sort of use this as the same
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tool. It's like, if I have things on my mind, I just
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dumped on the podcast. I call it emptying the cranial because this helps you
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know what I mean exactly. Well, let me ask you this because with
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the coaching group, I feel like and as a leader yourself, I feel
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like you can impart a lot of that wisdom in your coaching world. So
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when we switch to the coaching side of things, right, tell me about
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that part and giving your expertise as a CEO to those you coach. Over
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time, it evolved and I think it has to do a lot with the
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I'm going to say recent ish events, right, the last few years and
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everything that's happened in terms of recession. Well, first of all, let's
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start with the great resignation, and then the quiet quitting, and then recession
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like conditions and then what's been happening in the markets. So navigating all that
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has made me realize that as leaders, a lot of us are were burning
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out. And so I was like, Okay, how do we prevent that?
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And so I kind of shifted a little bit my coach Originally was more
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about how do you build a business and how do you understand your financials?
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And now I'm doing a lot more coaching on resilience, and it's resilience and
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agility in the sense that how can you, as a leader become more resilient
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yourself so that you can navigate all these challenges with a lot more ease.
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It's never easy. I mean if you have to lay someone off, and
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I know I've read on LinkedIn or wherever people posting like, oh, CEOs
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don't care. Maybe if it's a mega giant, enterprise size company maybe,
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but at our size, I definitely care. And when I have to lay
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someone off, it is painful, and it's like, how do I teach
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others to do that with more consideration, with more heart I'm going to say,
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because some will want to protect themselves and kind of build this thing and
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make it seem to the person that's being laid off that oh, you don't
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care, but no, we do. But how do you find again that
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middle ground? How do you support them afterwards? So there's just a lot
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there, and just in part of what I do now with the resiliency coaching,
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it's also building agility in the business itself, and how do you do
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that as well? So that's the more what I do Now. I got
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to ask you about the patience of a CEO because I feel like this,
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this moment of working from home has totally tried to overrun the actual be in
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the office space. And so how do you, as a CEO, not
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only in your own world, deal with this, but tell others, Hey,
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if an employee wants to work from home, is there a gentle way
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to say come back to the office, or is that a necessary thing in
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the people you deal with, or how does that fare well for myself?
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I've been working fully remotely for what twelve years now, so the in person
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thing I find is less necessary. What I do understand that there are some
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positions that absolutely if you're offering a service directly to the public, then yeah,
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you need somebody there to welcome that person. So for sure there will
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be times when it is necessary. I just want to I would caution a
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leader to really examine why they want someone in the workplace because, like I
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said, like the example I just gave, if you're actually physically providing a
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service to the public, you need someone there physically so that's non negotiable.
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But if you offer, let's say you have I'm going to say, a
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writer, project coordinator on the team. Okay, why is it that you
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want that person always in the office. Is it because as a leader you
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haven't quite figured out how to lead a remote team, or is it that
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you don't trust your team member. If you don't trust them, then that's
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another issue because if you're like, well, if I can't see them work,
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then I'm worried that they're not working. Then you've got a different kind
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of problem there that you need to investigate. That very very interesting thought process
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on that. I just see in the headlines today, like everybody's saying,
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well, so and so is being laid off, laying off these workers because
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they're not coming back. But it sounds like in what you're dealing with,
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that's not that layoff. There's not a we're worry about layoff in that kind
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of way. I guess no, not really that I haven't. I haven't
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experienced that. I haven't needed to speak to anyone about that late, but
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yeah, I recognize that it's there, and for those who are dealing with
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that situation, that would be the advice that I would give to really examine
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why they're asking for people to be in person and if there is like a
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significant amount of collaboration, I mean, there are online collaboration tools, and
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again it comes back to the leader and how are you training individuals to work
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in this new environment and if and again, if there is really a necessity
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for an in person okay, can you reduce the frequency of it. So
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I think there are so many options to explore in your journey to become CEO.
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Have you noticed a change in leadership style over the years and have you
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adapted from each leadership style that sort of was your boss or your CEO if
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you will, that was directing you. That's interesting. I'm going to say
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that I don't believe that there necessarily has been a big shift in leadership.
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There has been a big shift in expectations. So I'm going to go,
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like way back, I think employees were much more willing to put up and
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it's literally put up with negative let's say negative leadership leaders who were more controlling,
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leaders who have had more difficult with managing their emotions, maybe they yelled
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more and so people were more willing to put up with that. So it's
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not that they agreed with it or oh it was fine. It's like almost
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like, oh, well, I guess this's the way it is. But
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this idea of leadership, I've always had a people centric leadership. I just
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didn't have a word for it. And it's not until I came across Robert
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Greenleaf's Servant Leadership book that it just came to him. I'm like, whoa,
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this is my type of leadership. I didn't know that there was a
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word for it, and so for me, it was My style of leadership
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has always been leaning into my own personal values of balancing again organization and people
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and the necessity to elevate individuals so that they can do their best work.
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And I'm just going to give you an example. Sure, So, I
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remember being coming on board a new team and the outgoing manager started telling me
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about all the various individuals on the team that would be on my team.
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This person came to a very specific individual and said, Ugh, this person,
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you know, just just get them on the fast track to firing.
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They're terrible, they're useless, just don't even bother. I was like,
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okay, interesting, But I was always of the mindset, look, I'm
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going to make up my own mind. I got to know the individual.
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I could see, yeah, productivity wise, there were some issues. I
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was like, okay, what could be what could be at the root cause
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of this? So started talking to the person. But at the beginning that
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person was very closed off, I think just from the previous manager behaving in
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a way that you need to change, you need to do this, you
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need to do that. I was like, hey, talk to me,
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like what's going on? So I built some trust. The person opened up
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to me, and it turns out this individual was dealing with something personal that
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was over a number of months. It was so significant that I don't even
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know how this person was able to function at work. And I went and
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I said, okay, you like I can't. Of course, recognizing the
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limits of what I am capable of doing, is you need to speak with
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a professional, like a licensed therapist of a psychiatrist, somebody can who has
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the ability to help you navigate through this incredibly difficult time in your life.
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And in doing so, that person's productivity changed because now it wasn't like you
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can't bring this insanely difficult thing that you're dealing with, you have to shut
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it off. When you get to work, It's like, you can't do
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that. You're a human being dealing with this. I don't even know how
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you're doing this. And the whole thing changed, the person changed, the
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relationship change, and she became an amazing individual. I was working through my
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father's passing actually in April, and that was not easy. But because I
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was trying to balance work and keep the traditions of my dad and I had
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for many years, it was it was quite a more deal. But I
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on that vein. I feel like, and I talk about this in the
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message I sent you to book you for this, that's when you knew you
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were a leader in your own right right, because I know that statements stood
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out to you. But I feel like that's a moment where you knew,
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hey, I could be a leader, I could do this at the CEO
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level. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, And first of all, my condolenstance.
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Sorry that you had to go through that. And and I'm assuming that
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you got the support that you needed at the time as well. I'm hoping.
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Yeah, they were. They were supportive of it. I mean,
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we were, just it felt like I had a few days to agree.
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Even then I had to go back to work, but I worked through it
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as much as I could, and you know, he was very involved with
16:56
the radio place at work at so it's just it was just a whole big
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loss for everybody. Actually, yeah, oh wow, But yeah, I've
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been I've been working through it. Even today. They're just every day,
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I guess you'd say, so I keep pushing through. And I see where
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you're coming from, too, is because how do we function is as employees
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while going through this really catastrophic moment outside of work. Absolutely, and that's
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exactly it. And that's why I think, in coming back to the original
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question about the evolution of leadership, I think that this whole pandemic thing really
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got individuals to revaluate their lives, revaluate what matters, and coming back into
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the work world, it was like, you know what, I want to
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show up as my authentic self. I don't want to have to hide who
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I am or how I'm feeling and how things are going. And it pushed
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leaders to have to reevaluate their own leadership styles and so like for me,
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because it's always been in my philosophy, it fit right in. But do
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you ever go through leadership burnout or do you coach people through that. That
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is very real. Leadership burnout is an absolute fact. And I actually frequently
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talk about the emotional journey of the leader, because if you want to be
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a true leader, you have to give a lot of energy, a lot
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of support, a lot of understanding self reflection. So you have to be
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able to manage the people's side and also the organizational side, which requires a
18:37
lot of strategic thinking. And there are a lot of different stressors, like
18:41
with the recession right now, impacting revenue, impacting clients, impacting all those
18:48
other things. So how do you manage those two things? And depending on
18:52
what you're dealing with, if you have let's say, a board that's pushing
18:56
for more profits and then team members who are like, hey, everybody else
19:00
is getting more flexibility, we need more flexibility too, and you can feel
19:03
genuinely feel the squeeze. And so as leaders we need absolutely need to be
19:08
able to resource ourselves. And so either that comes in the form of taking
19:15
some time off, truly off, and that is really hard to do.
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I'm going to admit as CEO, things are always on my mind and it's
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one of the hardest things to turn off. Like the three am wake ups
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going Okay, okay, I need to look at this situation with this client
19:32
because that's going to impact everyone. Okay, I need to look at the
19:34
numbers from the last quarter and figure out what are we're going to do here?
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Okay, I need to and those things like for some reason, three
19:41
m's the time for me anyway where my brain goes, now's the time you
19:45
need to think about these things. So I and so I know that I
19:48
work a lot on doing meditation and all that stuff to try to calm the
19:52
mind. And so it's important for leaders to find first of all, how
19:57
do you turn off that brain? How do you relax your body? Because
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we carry the stress in our bodies, and I know that for myself it's
20:07
frequently like the jar or something gets really tight. So it's how do you
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care it in your body and release that? And the emotional support. Leaders
20:18
need to have someone to talk to, even if it's a best friend that
20:21
they can vent you, but hopefully another group of leaders that they can just
20:26
say, hey, I'm dealing with this thing and this is what's going going
20:30
on, and just even hearing oh wow, that sounds really tough or I
20:37
know I'm going through the same thing, but the thing about the group,
20:41
or try to find maybe some trusted friends that are at the same level or
20:45
something like that, because what happens in a lot of groups, like a
20:48
lot on social everything's fine, everything is rosy. Oh you're dealing with problems,
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not me. Everything's perfect in my world. So try to find some
20:57
people that you really trust, that you can open up to so that they
21:00
can truly honestly support you, because leaders need that support. You know,
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what about the for the employee, because sometimes the employees, you say,
21:11
view the CEO is sort of like hone depth and everything like that. So
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how do you connect with your employees? What do you do? You have
21:18
a one on one sit down with them weekly? And what is your advice
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to other CEOs to sit down with their employees and actually get to know them
21:23
more. It depends on the size. If it's small, I would say
21:30
up to maybe fourteen employees, then I would say, yeah, do the
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one on ones. I'm not big on weekly one on ones. I'm more
21:41
of a quarterly one on one. The reason being I don't feel that we
21:44
can accomplish enough from week tweak, but it is important to have some kind
21:48
of touch point, whether it's a team meeting, whether it's conversation in a
21:53
slack channel, but some kind of touch point, and keep an eye on
22:00
unusual behaviors, like if you see someone who normally is very chatty, who
22:06
all of a sudden isn't hey, okay, let's go and check in on
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that person. If you have larger teams, then at that point you start
22:15
delegating a lot of those things. Then you have supervisors, managers, directors,
22:23
vps, and then use if there's a lot your direct sphere is going
22:29
of influence is going to be smaller. But at the same time, I
22:33
would say the same principles apply. So that quarterly one on one where I'd
22:37
like to review, Hey, we had these goals over the last quarter,
22:41
and I always make sure to have professional goals and personal goals. And so
22:47
people are like, why personal goals. It's like, well, because if
22:51
the person is healthier physically mentally, they're going to be better at work,
22:56
They're going to be more involved, more engaged, So it matters. Great
23:02
point. Great point, Tolan. Justlyn Moore nurse of Luxander's Coaching, and
23:07
she's a great CEO. We just met today. I feel like I've known
23:10
you for a little while now actually because we're we've been chatting up with it.
23:12
Now. Let me ask you this, because I feel like the podcast
23:18
base could be doing more for CEOs. This is why I created the podcast,
23:21
and I want to bring more on, more CEOs on because I feel
23:25
like there are there is good coming out of the top of any business,
23:29
and we got to highlight that because it could inspire others that want to be
23:33
CEOs as well and follow that kind of track. I mean, could could
23:37
the podcast base be doing better for the CEOs out there? That's such a
23:41
good point that you just brought up. Because I was not chasing this because
23:48
I thought that this was not for me in terms of personality. I'm a
23:52
very authentic person. I have never chased titles. It was like, I
23:59
don't define myself on that basis, and so I thought that, no,
24:06
what's the point. That's not me. I'm going to do other things.
24:08
But I think that, yes, what you just said, what podcasts could
24:12
do by highlighting individuals in leadership executive positions who genuinely are caring and responsible,
24:25
because like I said, it's easy to just be like I only care about
24:29
people. And then the whole business side just falls apart. But someone who
24:33
understands both and I know others that also do the same thing their CEOs as
24:41
well, and they create a group ownership type of environment. And so that
24:52
also helps change lives because some CEOs have implemented things like profit sharing or equity
25:03
in the business or things like that that help people who may have let's say,
25:11
less of an education or earn less. Then how can we support them
25:15
with Hey, if they get a little bit of extra money through profit sharing
25:19
or they own a part of the company, then maybe that can be part
25:22
of their retirement plan. So it helps elevate people's situation as well. And
25:29
there are a lot of individuals out there, and I think it'd be great
25:32
if, like you just said, podcasts could feature those types of individuals,
25:37
and that way we can hopefully create a bit of noise and counter the CEOs
25:42
who are all about look at me in my private jet and my new car
25:45
and all those things. I don't I feel like, would you consider YOURLF
25:51
a small business owner only purpose? The next question with that, would you
25:52
consider yourself a small business owner or is the midsize what kind of business exactly?
25:59
Small business? Small business? So another reason why I started this pro
26:03
the podcast because I'm tired of Small Business Saturday being the end of the support
26:07
of small businesses. I mean, it's got to continue past that last Saturday
26:11
in November, wouldn't you agree? Yes, I agree, yes, absolutely,
26:15
and actually I know I'm going to talk about it again. But the
26:18
Women Owned Business Program is so it's not a program certification, but what's so
26:22
great about it is that it encourages just that, and it encourages working with
26:27
other small businesses. And I would say, yeah, let's expand it to
26:33
all small businesses. Like if you're a small business and you see an opportunity
26:37
to collaborate with another small business, do that. And I know that government
26:41
agencies frequently will encourage let's say two or three small businesses getting together to be
26:48
able to provide a service so they want to succeed, they offer all kinds
26:52
of support as well. I know that Small Business Association has like free training
26:59
and all kinds of of things like that to help small businesses as well.
27:03
So yes, that's all together. No, I agree with you, and
27:07
I just this is why I have you on and so would love to keep
27:10
this connection going. And do you talk about this on your podcast as well,
27:12
the whole necessity to keep the small business community sticking together through it all.
27:19
I haven't done an episode on that yet, but maybe that's going to
27:22
be my next one. I like it. So what what what can we
27:26
listen when we listen to your podcast? What's the focus? Like, tell
27:29
us what we can look forward to? Yeah, it's leadership and entrepreneurship tips.
27:34
So I will talk about how to gain more trust with team members.
27:38
I'm going to talk about how to understand your financials. I talk about how
27:47
to I'm trying to remember what are my last ephisodes. I have a bunch
27:51
of them, but basically that's the kind of thing I talk about. And
27:53
I'll drop the YouTube link on my description here in the podcast to you.
27:57
But I gotta to say this. You mentioned a little while ago you don't
28:00
do it for greed. And I had a guy on yesterday, Andre Night.
28:03
He flips businesses, he buys and sells, quite a fascinating thing he
28:07
does, but he's an entrepreneur as well. And how do you, guys,
28:11
how are you able to personally nothing about the money more than the person
28:18
Like, how do's that? Is there a temptation for that or what I'm
28:22
gonna say, it might come down to need. I mean maybe maybe beyond
28:27
that, like what what is your purpose in life and what you feel you're
28:33
here for? And maybe some individuals feel that, hey, if I make
28:40
all this money, I'll be able to create a charity and give back.
28:48
So everybody has their own level of impact. I originally was all about the
28:53
one on one impact, and now I'm growing into give trying to have more
28:59
of a single magnificant impact impact at scale. But I would say it really
29:04
is personality. It's I meet some people who who, yeah, even though
29:10
they don't have big titles or big jobs, they like to have a lot
29:14
of things. In my life, it never was particularly appointed. I like,
29:18
of course, I like comfort, but it wasn't something that I needed.
29:23
My self worth or my value is not attached to what I own.
29:27
And I'm not saying that they are. That's not what I'm saying. I'm
29:30
just saying for me that that's what it is. So I would say it's
29:33
just about personality. Well, you are a very down to earth CEO,
29:37
and I think that's a very rare comment to say, because everything's the CEO's
29:40
in there I retire or whatnot. But you are talking me on this podcast,
29:44
and I feel like you're a very down to earth person and CEO as
29:47
well. And do you find when people approach you because you are a CEO,
29:52
do they approach you as a person or a CEO or do you try
29:56
and do you do you urge people when they talk to you to separ both
30:00
of them and say, I'm a person. You know, I'm not just
30:02
the title. I'm a person. That depends on the context. And if
30:08
it's somebody who is part of the organization, I think they're even if I
30:15
want them actually talked about that in one of my latest latest episodes. If
30:21
they need to talk to you, you can be the best, most compassionate,
30:23
most understanding, most human being ever. If there is that positional power,
30:33
it will impact the relationship and there will always be some filter there because
30:41
at the back of their minds, well for most people, the back of
30:45
their minds, they recognize that I could get fired so there, or they
30:51
could give me all the projects that suck, or they could turn down you
30:53
know, And it's not it's not a reflection on the leaderness necessarily. Again,
31:00
even the best, best, best leader who does everything right will still
31:04
see that. And this is just a function, I'm going to say,
31:07
of survival. I mean, you're not going to go up to your boss
31:12
and be like you are ridiculous right now? You know you know that normally
31:18
you're not going to do that. And so depending on how what the situation
31:23
is, the person's going to approach me differently. So I recognize if it's
31:27
business wise, there's always going to be that little bit of filter. But
31:33
if it's just like friends, then yeah, we're just chatting. Well,
31:37
and I feel like this has been a great, great chat. But I
31:40
got to ask you one last thing because what took out to me was the
31:44
fact that you are the chair of the Forbes Business Councils, excelling as a
31:48
leader group. And I sort of back into that because you want to talk
31:52
about your own story, but I'm like, well, let's talk about Forbes
31:53
for real, real quick, because that's not a small title. That is
31:56
a big deal. So tell us about being the chair of the Forum's Business
32:00
councils, excelling as a leader group. Yeah, well, the Forest Business
32:06
Council has groups, and well has the Council for Various Business Leaders, where
32:10
we can talk and meet other business leaders who are doing various things, and
32:19
so it allows us to discuss at a certain level about a number of challenges
32:24
and how they're dealing with it. And so it's a really great opportunity to
32:28
meet people. And it's also given me the opportunity to do some training because
32:37
I also host these events through that as part of the group and invite some
32:44
incredible people. And even I learn from inviting these amazing individuals who compliment my
32:52
knowledge and teach these very accomplished leaders how to elevate their own skill. Do
33:01
you ever do the states in the city? Do you ever do things in
33:04
New York City as well? Or mainly where are they located? Well,
33:07
right now, they're all remotely. I know that the Council is looking at
33:12
doing is experimenting with going back to some in person events, but at this
33:16
time everything I do is remote. Well, thanks for joining me today.
33:21
And I know you wear a lot of hats, but I think your baby
33:24
is this coaching program, and so where can people find out about the coaching
33:29
and just to get to talk to you, Maybe not as much as the
33:31
CEO, but as a coach, I mean in any level. Really,
33:34
where can people find it? I think the easiest way would be my website,
33:39
which is lucentis l o x e n t us dot com. But
33:44
also I'm on LinkedIn Jocen Moriners and my YouTube channel. I would say,
33:49
get to know me a little bit, so watch my videos see if it
33:52
speaks to you. And then if it does and you're finding yourself going,
33:55
you know what, I really could use that support, then reach out and
33:59
let's chat. Because I'm not I'm not one of those people who's like I
34:04
must close the deal in the call. It's like, no, it's like,
34:07
let's talk. Let's see if we I believe in my heart of hearts
34:10
that I can actually support you and help you. And if I can,
34:15
then let's talk. But you know, if not, then I'm just gonna
34:19
be like, hey, you know what, let's let's see. If I
34:22
don't know someone else who could help you, well, I'd love to have
34:24
be back on certainly maybe after small business scattery, see how that fared for
34:30
you, and continue this conversation. That's awesome. Thank you so much for
34:34
having me. This was a really great conversation. I appreciate it so much.
34:37
That was Jocelyn More and nurse of Loocentis Coaching on the Alex Garrett podcast
34:42
Network. Thanks so much, Thank you so much. This was really great
34:47
and actually because you just mentioned