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RTC36: What's the best way to share finances when in a relationship · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Curve Podcast, a conversation for women who want to learn more about money,
• 0:07
  their money for the future they want to have. We're all busy in the pursuit for financial
• 0:12
  confidence and increasing your wealth should be a simple one. This podcast is for women
• 0:17
  to learn about investing in a non-scary or intimidating way. With short episodes, you'll
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  have time to learn, digest and understand everything to do with the world of investing. So thank
• 0:28
  you for being here and for listening, because together we really can raise the curve.
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  So for anyone listening who doesn't follow us on Instagram, we recently opened up the
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  conversation around money and finances, what that looks like when you're in a relationship,
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  and a lot of people were surprisingly, I mean firstly passionate, there's a lot of people who've
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  obviously been and not particularly nice separations and maybe didn't have anything set up at the
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  start and therefore kind of in a bit of a situation and new heaps about it and then there was a lot
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  of people who had never even considered the idea of not merging finances with their partner on,
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  which I thought was super interesting but anyway the conversation kind of unraveled and got to
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  the point where a lot of people not what asking advice but all kind of wanting some clarity in
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  the space. How does it work when you're in a relationship? Do you have to divide assets? What does
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  it mean to be defective, et cetera, et cetera? And Lauren, who's in the studio with us right now,
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  reached out and just time follower, first time caller? Well it's a real pleasure to have you on
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  studio mainly because Vic is currently in London and couldn't be here so it's it feels weird doing
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  a podcast without her but it's very nice to have you here so thank you because there was a lot of
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  people confused about how it works when you're in a relationship. What does that mean? And you work
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  in the space so you see a lot of different situations. It would be awesome if you could just give
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  an overview as to what your job is and the kind of work that you do. So I'm a lawyer, I predominantly
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  practice in the area of family law and within that in relationship property so people would typically
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  think of that when you're getting divorced but also it is people wanting to arrange their
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  finances or probably more protecting assets at the start of a relationship rather than what they
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  have to do at the end. And when you say relationship property law, it's not necessarily housing
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  property, it's the things that you own is that right? Yeah so property in that so the Lauren New Zealand
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  is called the Property Relationships Act or as lawyers like to shorten it to the PRA.
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  Oh I'm so glad you're about to explain this because so many people messaged about it and I was
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  pretending to know what they're talking about. Yeah so the PRA governs New Zealand's relationship
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  property law and properties defined really broadly so yes it's a house but it also includes things
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  like bank accounts, kiwi savers, cars, household Chettles, pees, household Chettles by the way.
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  Wow that's a great question. Not like cattle. No and so all your furniture, artwork,
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  cars will under household Chettles. Okay so it's stuff. Yes it's stuff. It's like assets that aren't
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  giant, you know, like maybe a $3,000 couch. Yeah and some people also really typically think their
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  household Chettles are worth a lot more than that. Yeah but some people also do have some very
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  expensive art I imagine would be quite a valuable one and tea pieces of furniture. Yeah but art
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  is probably kind of a more substantial. Okay cool and so your role is essentially figuring out
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  what happens to that by the after-relationship or how is it arranged going into a relationship?
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  Yeah so deal with both so people who are separating and they come and say we've separated what do we
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  do next which can sometimes be emicable and sometimes can be so you're dealing with both of them
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  or yeah. I'm also a marriage celebrant just to really like spice things up from circle economy
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  or you're releasing you must see some interesting relationships. Yes. Yeah because I think you know
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  you go into relationships really not assuming the worst of course you're not going to get married
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  to someone or be in a relationship with some for 10 years that you all or something is going to
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  drain your bank account but what I have noticed from our DMs is the amount of people who have been
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  like blindsided. So I think people they love. People just in a separation act badly. It's not a
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  business thing at that point or it's not commercial it's all emotionally driven and I know I have
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  that conversation with clients a lot of well you know they're not making rational decisions
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  they're emotionally motivated now and for whatever reason what's gone wrong how they feel
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  aggraved and that plays out into how they then try and divide the property and it can be an idea.
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  Because if someone's cheated or if there's any kind of you know resentment it would just yeah
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  it would be I think it would be difficult even if there was none of that you know like separating
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  in general is hard enough. Yeah I mean I think separating it's a loss of an identity too and so
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  people go through that and I mean there's the the stages of grief cycle and people move through
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  that at different stages so you might have one partner and often the partner who's lead like
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  initiated separation that I've done some of the grieving in the relationship. Oh I've been there
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  so you know when you thought about right here was someone for like a year and then you finally
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  do it yeah and then you're like what and you're free and they're like I'm so sad yeah yeah so
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  that happens within like long term relationship or a marriage and then you've got to translate out
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  what the hell happens with all the assets and so you know free partners going like yeah cool
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  I'll give you this I'll take this and the other one's like I can't even accept it we're not together
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  anymore okay yeah it's also so I mean I'm not relating separation to death or funerals but you know
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  when someone dies a last thing you want to be thinking about is putting together a funeral or a
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  wake or organizing anything you're just broken I imagine it's reasonably similar in a way when
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  it comes to separating I mean you're right that loss by entity that feeling of who and I
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  and stuff also represents or we cling to it as if it's an identity so that in itself would be
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  emotional yeah and I think it can be like a death for some people for most people it's some of the
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  hardest things they've gone through in their lives okay so can we talk about because the question
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  that we put out on Instagram in regards to this conversation was around joining finances when
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  you're in a relationship or keeping them separate and obviously this podcast is not about giving
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  advice it's all education but just opening up the conversation so people can think about the way
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  that their finances are set up and if they want to rethink them or if they need legal advice they
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  can do that but for your perspective what is there a better way to do it is it I mean yeah
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  would love to kind of just hear your experience and general information around this space yeah so
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  I think it's a really personal decision but I think understanding how relationship property law
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  works and what what is relationship property what might not be how to structure this if it's
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  something that you want to keep is what we call separate property that can help guide a conversation
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  with your partner um different people have different opinions but I think when I was reading
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  the questions what struck me was that it was like oh you all just don't know if you're right
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  for what you're having to and because we don't talk about it it's totally you know it's not
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  something we don't school we learn trigonometry but parallelograms yeah if it's so useful I've
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  used high pot in the hypotenuse theories the name is like hypotenuse that was it hypotenuse I
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  don't know but I mean either way it feels very relevant now doesn't it yeah and so where's a
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  good place to start in terms of explaining the way that property can be because obviously this
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  is at the two-year defect oh how does that work oh so it's um so in New Zealand we have the
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  property relationships act which lawyers or people like to shorten to be called the PRA PRA
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  yes um and that says that all relationship property law in New Zealand is divided
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  fifth not law all relationship property is divided 50-50 so that is key we say the homes
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  belongings cash every asset you own gene relief yes it's a little bit more nuance than that um so
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  for example the family home under our currently legislation that is power that is relationship
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  property doesn't matter if we were to give that and you owned your home and I'm moving
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  you're kidding I can take you for that 50% when you leave me for London oh my god yeah so people
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  are very resentful about that just for anyone that doesn't know I've I'm currently in the middle
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  of packing my life up to go and spend a couple of months in London and even just I would like to
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  apologise if any of my chat is terrible or makes no sense I am very strong out right now you know
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  when you're packing your head's just everywhere and you're like I can't forget this can't forget that
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  just anything exactly I've made lists and it's helping so okay so in terms of um save for
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  example now where we are at the moment this is Vex home and she so say she you know falls in love
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  he moves in and they live together for two years so it's not it's not we should go back a step
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  who does the PRA apply to so if you're married in a civil union or a qualifying de facto
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  relationship it applies to you then is what's a qualifying de facto relationship so it's three
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  years but determining if your inner de facto relationship is normally like a factual analysis
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  and it's living together as a couple but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to be
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  living together but it's not from like the day you start swiping right on Tinder and sending
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  to a m up to 10 right so it's more of like a yeah okay so it's like make your commitment to a shared
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  life got it so generally we would say like if you've lived together for three years you're going to be
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  you're pretty likely to be in a qualifying de facto relationship I feel like that's no time at all
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  like if I think about three years if I say I was 45 and I've spent my life sort of single I hope
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  I'm not 45 and single but say that is the case and yeah you don't oh god I can just see it now
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  let's not miss this and then a fierce guy can't talk probably sorry so yeah so say I'm 45
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  single meet somebody we're in a relationship for three years all of a sudden they're entitled
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  to kind of everything that I've that I own no okay um but your property starts to become
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  risk if you own your home and they moved into that then yes they're entitled to half the equity in
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  your home upon the de facto starting so say yes so from the de facto stand so you know you wouldn't
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  start a de facto relationship the day you meet them yeah yeah yeah you know you might have been
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  dating or thing going steadies I'm I would say oh my god um for like is it a special friend
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  so if I'm like can we just call or what it is like this is my very good friend I'm sleeping with him
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  okay they're not my friend gross but you might be sleeping with them and not being a de facto
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  relationship with them so it's when things get serious so it's probably reasonably um you could
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  argue both ways right so it's it's not a hard and fast rule you're together for three years
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  you're de facto but around that time period a serious relationship it's what's your financial
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  interdependence about or dependence between each other have you got a mutual commitment to her
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  shared life how do other people see you you know do we see oh that's just so its current flame
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  of the month flame of the month I love that it's a little bit special who's been around for a while
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  now okay yeah generally if you moved in together you'd say that's reasonably serious okay
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  oh not just the two I am up to so so this is who it applies to the PRA yeah so obviously
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  if you got married in that time it applies to you or if you had a civil union in that time it
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  applies to you but once you've been in a qualifying de facto relationship for three years the PRA
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  applies and so any property you acquire in the time of the de facto relationship is relationship
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  property your incomes relationship property so that means like increase in value of your kiwi
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  saver this relationship property um if you had both put your kiwi saver into buying a house together
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  in six months into your de facto relationship the house would be relationship property
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  but the entire increase of your kiwi saver when you start re putting money into it would be
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  relationship property um any shares you acquire it is this only during the three years that you're
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  together or is this from before and then also during that three years no so generally property
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  acquired before a de facto relationship or a marriage is separate property where it starts to
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  get murky is if you apply relationship property to that so say you just have a shares is account
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  and you regularly put $20 a week into it that becomes murky because in the time of the de facto
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  relationship you've been putting your income which is relationship property into that share portfolio
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  so it increases and those increases could be relationship property but if you just had
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  $10,000 shares in Tesla and didn't add any more money didn't apply anything to that and it just sat
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  there during your three years yep that still remains yours yes so it's any kind of interaction
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  with any of your assets throughout the time that you're together become potentially a part of that
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  apart from the family home the family home is the really key tenant of our legislation that
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  that's always relationship property regardless of if they were there before or after yeah I just
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  find that so weird the law commission had recently reviewed the law and there are proposals that
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  that could change um I think the intention behind it was to protect non owning spouses um so say
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  you mean like say you're with someone for 25 years and you didn't buy the house and you've lived in
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  it and contributed to your life together you're not left homeless at the end of it yeah so our
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  law does it feel recently recognizes financial and non financial contributions as being equal
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  right because this is a question that came in so this is in regards to if you have babies if you
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  have a family and you're not earning anymore that full-time care is equated to being a full-time job
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  so like for example I'm going on maternity leave soon and we have a mortgage I won't be paying
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  the mortgage while we're on while I'm on maternity leave but I don't I'm still entitled to half the
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  within the house even if we break up at the end of next year and my partner can't turn around and say
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  oh no well I paid the mortgage of $20,000 while you're on maternity leave so that money should come
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  to me is there a time when they could do that though like if you haven't got something in place legally
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  that or is that just the law and it's blanket across for anyone um where contributions are relevant
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  as if you're in a marriage of short duration so you're married for less than three years that could
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  change depending on how long you're in a defective relationship prior to the marriage or the you're
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  in a defective relationship of less than three years and the PRA doesn't apply because a friend of
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  mine was recently talking to me about a situation tourism and she said something about the fact that
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  if they were to separate based on the contract she was about to sign in 20 years time when they
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  if they were to split that he would essentially be able to say no because you didn't pay the mortgage
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  fixed amount of time therefore I can take this much more okay yeah so they've been obviously
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  about to enter into a contracting out agreement or what a lot of people know as a prenup
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  right okay can we talk about prenup yes because I think this is really involved and quite like a
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  lot of the questions that came in I think are relating to pre-absitutions probably two people our
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  age it's probably a lot more relevant than the super-atting dividing assets like if I thought about
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  my clients that I saw at different age levels our age it's more entering into a contracting
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  out agreement so we don't actually call them prenups but that's what I mean so contracting
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  out agreement is essentially a prenup yeah and so okay could you give me an overview
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  yeah so so we have this whole relationship property law scheme and then there's a section called
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  section 21 someone messaged about this they're like I can talk to you about number 21
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  I was like what's number she obviously had been in a horrible situation and knew it inside out
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  okay really excellent yeah so contracting out was section 21 agreements are saying we don't
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  want the PRA to apply to us and they can be really prescriptive or they can be very specific
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  to certain assets or yeah they can they can range a whole lot so there is some formal requirements
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  to it so it must be in writing and probably the most important one is that you have independent
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  legal advice and so that's like each person in that relationship has their own lawyer yes
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  and that is so important because the whole relationship property scheme and how it works is
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  complicated and it's nuanced and like your friend was saying you know I've had countless times
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  that people probably didn't really females come and they're like oh yeah we're just entering
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  into this because we've put unequal deposits into the house we're about to buy and we're just
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  protecting that and you're like yeah but you're also doing this and you're doing this
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  and you're doing this and so they're just basically they're unaware of what they're signing
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  because they think that it's simply you're putting 70k into a house and I'm only putting 30
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  and therefore this is representing that but it's a much bigger yeah and then the agreement might
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  say oh but you're all your income separate property and all your bank counts are separate property
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  and where that could become really unfair is when you do have that 25-year relationship and you've
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  stayed home and had the kids and haven't been working and therefore yeah and he's had a separate bank
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  account that he's put all his income into and not only do you get your $10,000 back from
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  the south of the family home that you put in you can't have any of that joint bank account if
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  the income separate property you're not entitled to keep us over sure so are there a lot of
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  people that end up in that situation well not hopefully they've had good interviewing with that
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  oh my god I really hope anyone listening to this send send it to anyone you know who might
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  need to hear this because imagine you just would trust your partner at the time you'd sign it
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  and you wouldn't even think twice yeah and look they might not even know either because they said
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  or lawyer I just want it to like you know we're just doing this unequally and I yeah nah keep my
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  income I want to keep my key we save it and don't realise and it is crystal ball gazing because
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  the relationship might last three years and there's no issues but it could last 25 and then it is
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  you get into a whole ball game there whereas is it seriously unjust and can you apply to the court
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  to set it aside that we can do that is that is that basically like I entered into this without
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  you know false pretenses or I didn't realise what I was signing or surely you can see that I
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  deserve more is that kind of thing yeah look we could this that's quite a confetti at the law
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  we could do a whole okay forecast on that I'll come down um but yes those kind of general
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  so it's not just as hard and vast or black and white as like if you've signed it you're going to
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  end up in this situation no but theoretically you are signing it and why you haven't been legal
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  advices so that you have the certainty so that the both the contracting parties have the certainty
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  to saying this is the arrangement we've entered into and this is what it means but actually understanding
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  what that arrangement is so important and like it's totally fine to go and say we want to protect
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  our unequal contributions to our house deposit but just make sure it's not everything else included
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  yeah or if it is everything else included making sure you understand that you know I think for
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  me I think it's the knowledge is power piece so you know or another part of the PRA that gives
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  people relationship property rights is contributions so you decide that you are going to share the family
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  home that's all good but your partner has property on white heke and that's his separate property
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  and they say yeah great that's fine but then there might be a clause in the contracting
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  agreement that says no contributions by you financial otherwise we'll give you an interest in
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  this property so that's fine but don't go on spend six months of your life helping renovate the
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  property right oh my god or don't say oh I just got I've got ten thousand dollars in my shares
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  I'd love a new bathroom at white heke I see so it's just the idea of being really really aware of
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  what your setup is so part of the piece of independent legal advice when you're getting a
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  contracting out agreement is there's a liner that says I've had the um a fix and implications of
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  the agreement explain to me and I always preface when I'm going into one of these like it's not
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  just a one-off meeting you don't just rock up to all of you and say oh I just want to sign this
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  normally they'll be back and forward and we'll give you advice but when we get to the signing part
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  I do say oh I'm going to sound like a broken record because I'm going to go through your recourse
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  and tell you what it means oh but yeah gosh I would so much rather know my contract off by heart
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  than have no idea and yeah and because it is a crystal ballgazing thing so it could apply in 25
• 22:49
  years time it is important to know that if um you hit the jackpot in a lot of one but all property
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  in one part is names this yet but property so the power newy house is in my name and you've got no
• 23:03
  rights to it you that you're not going to lift a thumb and do any painting yeah so
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  this is a really ugly colored wall but I'm not fucking painting it yeah I don't know in this so
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  I'm not touching it yeah but yeah that's the thing yeah because I think there is like quite a um
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  you know I mean you're in a relationship your own love you you're you're idealistic you want to
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  be in a beautiful home or you want to have nice things you want to share a life together but it's
• 23:31
  just being aware of what what do you actually own what do they own and and what's depreciating
• 23:38
  and what's appreciating and and do are you involved in that because having no idea and just assuming
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  that it's all equal would be pretty horrifying if you got 20 years into a relationship and
• 23:51
  realise that wasn't okay it just could be terrible so what if we were to circle back to the idea
• 23:58
  of joint finances so say for example just like having a bank account that you both put money in
• 24:02
  for bills or you have your own separate accounts or you completely merge your finances a lot of
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  people DM does saying that all of their earnings are going into the same account it's just easier
• 24:12
  because they've got kids blah blah blah um what's the I mean I know again it's like it totally
• 24:18
  depends on your situation what your assets are blah blah blah but is there I don't know I guess
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  like what's the right one so like from a basic legal stand view you don't have a contracting
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  out agreement you're just bothering along it doesn't matter your income that goes into a personal
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  bank account or if it goes into a joint bank account is all relationship property right so if unless
• 24:42
  you have a contracting out or pre-napped whatever it's called essentially it's all 50-50 unless
• 24:47
  you've got something else yeah so in place cool put it all together if that's what works for you
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  or keep it separate put something together but if you are keeping money separate which you're
• 24:58
  totally entitled to do if you separate your partners entitled to know what the balance of your bank
• 25:05
  accounts are at separation and you're entitled to know what the balance of their bank accounts are
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  at separation and we would normally we often talk about like adjustments that will be divided
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  basically really yep you you actually do need a contracting out agreement to protect those assets
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  if you don't want to share it at the end of a relationship and it's the same with your key
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  we say like people really commonly think oh it's but it's in my name so it's not ours
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  the value that increases over the time of your relationship because obviously you're putting
• 25:36
  your income into it the government puts money into it it's essentially shares so it goes up
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  and value that's relationship property what about if someone has shares that they someone sent us
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  a message saying what about if I've got to put folio that I have before we enter into a relationship
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  is that what you said before around if they just don't touch it for the direction of your
• 25:58
  relationship then it's there so as long so that's what we would call your separate property
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  because you held it prior to the de facto relationship but what if you're contributing throughout
• 26:07
  the relationship that's where it gets murky because not many people would just have ten thousand
• 26:11
  dollars of shares and then as soon as they're in a relationship and they ever contribute more you know
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  exactly so you probably have to do like a bit of what we call tracing and looking at what's
• 26:20
  increasing value or what you know with whenever you got to a hundred dollars you bought a new share
• 26:27
  in this and so those ones are definitely relationship property or those are still separate
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  property it gets murky right so essentially if you're in a situation where you do want complete
• 26:39
  control over your assets and then have complete control over theirs you need a contracting out
• 26:45
  or a prenup yeah what about how does that then work if you do take time out to have a family
• 26:51
  I mean it's really hard to answer non-specifically um these would be things I would discuss with
• 26:57
  your lawyer um you may wish to put in like a sum set clause that says oh that sounds fun what's
• 27:04
  a sum set clause so it means the agreement comes to an end so you might have that um some that I've
• 27:11
  drafted a like when we've been together for five years if we get married or if we have a child
• 27:16
  together those things dissipate yeah doesn't mean you can't at that point then say oh well we'd
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  still really like to keep out key we save us separately but we're happy to share all our bank
• 27:28
  accounts now and you can enter into a new agreement um because what I'm thinking is say for
• 27:34
  example I get to the stage of wanting to have kids amazing someone wants to have a child with me
• 27:40
  also amazing smart man so then say I have a contracting out agreement because I want to protect
• 27:47
  my own assets and I want them to be able to protect theirs but then we come to a place of
• 27:52
  wanting to have children and I'm obviously not earning and therefore from that time I'm
• 27:57
  quite reliant on them financially is there a can you just basically set up to whatever suits you
• 28:03
  so say it was like up until that point we keep things separate and then you could have a new one
• 28:07
  that's like is it just look the beauty of a contracting out agreement it can be what either you
• 28:12
  want it to be I prefer to say to people look let's not try and have this super prescriptive crystal
• 28:17
  ballgazing that all these different assets come into play keep it current keep it relevant
• 28:24
  what works out at that current time yeah in having those conversations what what even are the
• 28:29
  different ways of setting things up though if you have kids like because you're obviously about
• 28:32
  to go on maternity leave and you totally don't have to say what your personal setup is but I mean
• 28:37
  what are different ways that people who have kids can have well like we don't have a contracting
• 28:42
  out agreement where at the mercy of the lawyers I like to remind Richie all the time I'm tired of
• 28:48
  everything baby um we've we've gone from having separate bank accounts and accounts we put bills
• 28:55
  into to now having income gone to one account because we're trying to save some money
• 29:00
  and it's better to combine that so it works for you guys in that way yeah also that I can
• 29:04
  go up for my latte is free yes so was your reason essentially okay well I know that I'm
• 29:09
  not going to be earning money and I'm the one that's going to be at a loss unless we combine
• 29:14
  so now this is our plan yeah we also refinanced our mortgage that kind of was like convenient
• 29:19
  that they were like oh should we change how we're doing things but that's all just been by a
• 29:24
  conversation and so there's kind of no real right way you've got to do what works for you I guess
• 29:31
  but I think understanding what your rights are or aren't is important I mean I don't know
• 29:38
  how it's going to be not actually having a weekly paycheck I mean I guess we've kind of got that
• 29:42
  at the moment because we're sharing a joint bank account that reaches income has been paid into
• 29:49
  and we're trying to save mine um like you say we'll still have access too many um it's so
• 29:58
  harder because every situation is so different but it's just really hard for me to grasp the
• 30:02
  concept of not having I'm not working and therefore give me an allowance or like you know like
• 30:07
  that's sorry the whole giving an allowance people controlling finances that can be I know
• 30:13
  there was something come Instagram about like read flags that just you know on who didn't see
• 30:19
  that basically someone messaged in saying and actually she did message me afterwards saying I
• 30:23
  feel like you kind of took that out of context I was like also sorry if you feel personally attacked
• 30:27
  it was not the intention but basically she said I would feel like it was a read flag if someone
• 30:32
  didn't want to combine finances and we did a poll and there was like over a thousand votes and
• 30:37
  interestingly 600 people or more said I would think it's a read flag if someone didn't want to
• 30:41
  combine finances and there was about four five hundred that said oh no I think it's dependent to
• 30:46
  your circumstance but where it's hardest when there's kids involved because how earth is a
• 30:50
  mommy you meant to be independent when you're not earning money exactly yeah and there's issues around
• 30:56
  our law the family violence actually changed a few years ago to include financial abuse as a form
• 31:03
  of family violence it changed from domestic violence to family violence and that's where
• 31:09
  you might have someone who says you've got ten dollars a week for petrol and that's the financial
• 31:15
  controlling thing and so I think people also see that as a concern of like well we've got shared
• 31:19
  finances but as someone controlling that again whole other area yeah we could have a whole
• 31:26
  other it's a huge huge one because there is like one in three women and abusive relationships
• 31:31
  in New Zealand even so that in itself there would be like financial control would be a huge part
• 31:37
  of that yeah and I know I remember one of the answers being something like you know you have to
• 31:43
  have a joint bank account a separate bank account because otherwise you can't leave for emotions
• 31:47
  situations it differently changes how things work and hopefully you're in a healthy relationship
• 31:54
  and you can have those conversations about like well I'm not going to be earning during this time
• 31:59
  how do we arrange our finances how does that work for us um it's not really so much a legal
• 32:07
  thing apart from knowing shit yeah but I guess for you it for on a legal perspective knowing that
• 32:14
  you are entitled to share in their income legally and it's such a weird concept yeah
• 32:20
  I guess because I don't have kids it's really hard to imagine I mean maybe you need to follow up
• 32:24
  people started with me in a year when I'm like I'm headed home now don't do it I wish I could
• 32:31
  have a personal bank account but you wouldn't surely there would be your own I mean ideally you have
• 32:37
  some of your own in a separate account yeah unless you have a contract down agreement they can still
• 32:42
  have access to that yeah and so I think that's important to know and if that's an important piece
• 32:48
  for you that you're Kiwi Sava you know that you always have the next gig of your Kiwi Sava and go
• 32:53
  and see a lawyer and get a contracting out agreement you can have a contracting out agreement that
• 32:57
  just critiques your Kiwi Sava it doesn't have to have anything else the rest you can say oh look I'm
• 33:02
  happy we share the fruits of our relationship however that works or you can have a contracting
• 33:08
  out agreement that's just about your share portfolio or the family home it doesn't have to be
• 33:14
  every piece of property under the sun it's what works for you okay or what's important to you
• 33:24
  one other thing that came up a lot was what what about inheritance so inheritance by nature
• 33:30
  is separate property but if you mix it in or what we call intermingle it with relationship property
• 33:36
  to mingle sounds like a dating apple so when you start intermingling with the opposite sex or the
• 33:46
  same sex or is this bank account chat I'm confused well it came me so say you get $100,000 in
• 33:56
  inheritance sorry I shouldn't imagine knock it out so if it's not happening if that gets paid
• 34:05
  into a separate bank account in your name that remains your separate property but say you have
• 34:12
  paid into a joint bank account and you just leave use it for your every day living expenses
• 34:18
  it's intermingled it's intermingled shit man and it loses its status as a separate property
• 34:23
  so at the end of the relationship you can't turn around and say oh you know that trip for Europe
• 34:28
  I paid to it for I want half the money back what about the difference between having a trust
• 34:34
  versus having just into a different bank account is this a whole other no have a contracting out
• 34:41
  agreement okay trust used to be seen as like the kind of fortress with the moat up the tower
• 34:49
  Rapunzel didn't have very long here she wasn't using any collagen yeah but now we know about things
• 34:55
  that marine collagen and we've got lunch here and we're all good at day I'm now so strong so we can
• 35:01
  pull the nails out of the water get across the moat and into the castle um give me the money yeah trust
• 35:10
  aren't the kind of iron clad fortress they used to be and normally if someone was coming to me
• 35:16
  and saying oh I owe my home or I'm buying this property I've also got a relationship I want to put
• 35:22
  the poem into a trust we would question them about why they needed a trust because you don't
• 35:28
  actually need a trust unless you well this is very general specific circumstances yeah
• 35:33
  for your lawyer um normally you need you would want dual purposes for it so like credit or
• 35:39
  protection so if you were someone that could be sued it's good to have your property in a trust
• 35:45
  then that's not available for creditors I think the um where I still have question marks for myself
• 35:50
  if I was in a relationship would be how I would even want them to be set up yeah instruction I think
• 35:55
  that is a totally personal piece and your partner might have really strong feelings about that
• 36:01
  like I know I have one really good friend and she feels like vehemently opposed to contracting
• 36:07
  our agreements which is like your inner committed relationship together you should be sharing things
• 36:12
  I probably feel more relaxed or flex about it but everyone has their own thoughts
• 36:17
  and also what works out on relationship isn't going to work for another year or so I think
• 36:22
  for many of us we watched our parents go through divorces and that can really color 100%
• 36:29
  what do you think yeah and what's important to you yeah but I think from my perspective as a lawyer
• 36:35
  people having the like knowledge is power thing understanding what how relationship
• 36:41
  probably law works and what could be at risk so you can think about those things and so you can
• 36:47
  have those conversations with someone and say oh you know like we've been together for a while now
• 36:52
  or like we're buying a house I'm putting in a bit more money that money came from my family
• 37:00
  I'd like to protect that yeah and if they say to you absolutely not all then that's
• 37:07
  do you want to be buying a house with that yeah you know like if it's really I guess yeah
• 37:12
  you're right it just comes down to open communication which was the number one thing that came
• 37:16
  through yeah and but if you don't know what you are or not and paddle to or what your rights
• 37:21
  are or what is going to be relationship property how can you have full and free and frank open
• 37:26
  communication yeah you've just got to understand it and the other thing I just wanted to ask
• 37:30
  quickly is what if someone can't afford a lawyer and they can't afford to go and get a contracting
• 37:35
  out agreement is there any alternative for someone like that or like could you find something
• 37:39
  on the internet printed out or is no no okay that's that's unfortunately just the barrier yeah
• 37:46
  and I would say that it's really money well spent you know if you are if you do have the money
• 37:52
  to be buying a house or true investing in shares put put money aside another account for
• 37:59
  you contracting out agreement what would something like that cost I know it's a huge range but
• 38:03
  that's really hard because it depends what you're wanting to do how straightforward it is yeah
• 38:10
  and how much different law firms okay different lawyers charge different amounts and I'm sure
• 38:15
  you can investigate look at lots of different options and you can ring people ring lawyers
• 38:18
  and ask and say this is what we want to do they'll probably give you an answer like that and say
• 38:22
  until we start talking about it it's really hard to give you but they can give you a ballpark
• 38:26
  figure and say oh if you're just wanting to protect your any saver yeah your key saver you know
• 38:32
  that's pretty straightforward this is my hourly rate blah blah blah the other thing is ask if
• 38:40
  your partner's really pushing for you to have that contracting out agreement say okay that's fine
• 38:44
  but you've got to pay for my independent legal advice and I'm doing one yeah and I'm choosing
• 38:50
  that this lawyer I can find yeah and that you know that can be the other but it's not a valid agree
• 38:58
  this is actually quite important it's not a valid agreement unless there's there's there's
• 39:02
  within section 21 there's another section 21 F or H that has things that are like the formalities
• 39:10
  um and part of that is like we spoke about before the independent legal advice if you don't
• 39:15
  have that it's not valid it's not binding so if you guys both write on a piece of paper the dog is
• 39:21
  so fierce don't me share got it because no doubt I would want to take the dog yeah I mean peace
• 39:31
  again a whole mother and that's what gets started on the children yeah but if you agree between
• 39:38
  yourselves it doesn't mean anything unless you have a proper contracting out agreement in place and
• 39:44
  sadly I said at the other end when people say oh but he always said that the house is mine
• 39:52
  and then you're a better nut yeah and look probably not to sound
• 39:57
  money yes but if you've got stuff you wanting to protect you can afford to sell
• 40:01
  yeah to get that in place yeah all right fair very fair you know yeah priorities I don't know if
• 40:07
  there's that money yes you know I'm not wanting to sound a privilege just let the
• 40:10
  we're looking for yeah maybe but I know what you mean it's like yeah making it if you're worried
• 40:16
  about your assets spend the money on yeah it's money because you'll spend so much more money
• 40:20
  about the end trying to argue of why you should keep that and if you've just kind of
• 40:27
  been in the bullet earlier on also it's so much easier having those hard conversations while
• 40:33
  you're still in love so true like it is much much easier while you're in love to say this is how
• 40:39
  we want to do things if we separate then when you're separating and you're like fuck you man yeah yeah
• 40:45
  okay cool this has been so helpful that's why you don't need to enter in do you say no yeah true
• 40:51
  everything is mine yeah take back your power this is the law and I'm following the instructions
• 41:03
  okay I would love to do another quip like Q&A we can keep it real snappy um but thank you so much
• 41:08
  laws like absolutely eye opening and really so grateful for you giving your time and knowledge
• 41:14
  because I hope it just helps people to have that kind of basically understanding what the
• 41:18
  hell it is like this is what I do for a job that's why I know it but if I didn't it would be like
• 41:23
  crypto and ENFT so over that it's quite funny because when laws message us on Instagram and was
• 41:28
  like hey like this is what I do for work really happy to help with you even need it I was like I was
• 41:34
  like oh my god I'd love to jump on the phone like do you have five seconds she's like I'm just in
• 41:37
  court at the moment I was like oh my feeling like weirdly embarrassed that you're following the
• 41:42
  curve and you're in court like you're obviously very smart and I'm just like constantly saying
• 41:46
  stupid shit so thank you like yeah hats off to you well we're very grateful so thank you
• 41:58
  thank you so much for joining us for today's episode of Raising the Curve please subscribe and
• 42:03
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• 42:08
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