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Re-Release: Bill Hillhouse · From the Coach's Mouth

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I really worry about the kids because eventually they're going
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to run into an umpire who does know the difference and is going
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to call those pitchers illegal. And will that kid be able to
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adjust? Will that kid be able to make an
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in game adjustment to to pitch quote UN quote legally as
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opposed to the crow hopping that they're doing?
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Whether you live northeast, West or South, the best fast pitch
0:26
info comes from the coach's mouth.
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Welcome to the From the Coach's Mouth podcast with your host Jay
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Bolden and Ken Krause. All right, hello, welcome back
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to the From the Coaches Mouth podcast.
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Jay, I have to say, you're looking good over there, buddy.
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He's rocking the new headphones. Yes, it's actually it's great to
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hear myself and I didn't know I sounded this good Ken, So I have
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to really thank you so much because now I can really hear
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what I sound like. So I think I'm going to start
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recording, maybe put out an album or something, I'm not
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sure, but I really appreciate the the new headphones.
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They're they're amazing so. Yeah, Yeah, I knew you would.
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I've been good. I mean, I knew you would like
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those. It's it's really helpful when
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you can just hear yourself coming through and imagine now
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you're going to want to take over the the announcements, the
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opens, the closes and all that. And now that you know you sound
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that good. No, actually, but I will tell
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you I do like wearing these at home too, especially when my
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kids are loud. So this, these are, they're
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paying off really well. Two youth, 22 forms of use for
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these things. This is great.
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That's good. Yeah.
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Otherwise, you know, this is mid January here in the Chicago and
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Northwest Indiana area and we're just trying to stay warm.
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Are you are you doing lessons this weekend?
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Yeah, I'll get out there a little bit.
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I'll tell you what can I think, you know, when this when we get
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going here, like we're going to be, I think days away from the
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the kickoff of of softball and you know, we're going to see it
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on TVA lot. I just I can't wait.
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I got a lot of kids this year that they're in their senior
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year, senior season in college. It's exciting.
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So yeah, I'll do some lessons this weekend, but I I just can't
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wait to start watching stuff and for our team at Saint Xavier,
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start playing. I'm I'm just ready to go.
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I love the practices, but man, I really want to just the
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competition is what it's all about, so.
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Yeah, excited. How about you?
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Yeah, yeah, I'll be doing lessons this weekend.
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It's going to be cold, but luckily the facilities I'm in,
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I'll be, you know, they're usually pretty warm.
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You know, worst case, I'll have to wear a hoodie instead of just
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the T-shirt. But yeah, looking forward to it
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and getting back in there. With high school tryouts coming
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up, I got a lot of kids that are really starting to get focused
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and getting themselves ready. Yeah, as we get ready for the
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season, Ken, did you happen to see the pitch calling Zoom?
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I did with Rick Paulie. Yeah, I did.
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I thought it was great. You know, you guys shared a lot
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of knowledge there. It was awesome.
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You know, anytime someone like that, like a legend like Rick
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Paul in the pitching community asks you to do something, you
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just you jump in with both feet. But you know, enough of enough
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of me rambling, you rambling. We have another legend in my
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opinion in the pitching community, fast pitch pitching
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community that's that's here today.
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Do you want to let people know about who are awesome guesses
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today? Yes, I certainly do.
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All right. Today's guest has accomplished
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more in one softball lifetime than most people would
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accomplish in three. As a player, he was a star
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pitcher in international men's softball, playing all over the
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world, including eight seasons competing in New Zealand.
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He was not only a two time member of the USA Men's National
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Team, but was the youngest pitcher ever to play for that
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team when he joined it in 1993. Among his accomplishments are
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being named the Pan American Games MVP, winning the Men's
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Major National Championship three times, earning a gold
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medal at the US Olympic Festival, and being inducted
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into the USA Softball Pennsylvania Hall of Fame in
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2022. His coaching career is equally
4:24
stellar. After stints as a pitching
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coach, consultant for Division One Drexel University and the
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University of Georgia, in 2013 he joined the staff at
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Providence College in Rhode Island.
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A strong advocate of men's fast pitch, he also served the sport
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as a commissioner for the International Softball Congress
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from 1997 to 2013. He is probably best known though
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as a private coach. He broke onto the scene as a
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controversial figure, speaking out against what was commonly
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being taught in the women's game while railing against the
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so-called pitching coach mafia, local coaches who were more
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interested in defending their turf than seeing reality.
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He offered private lessons and held pitching clinics all over
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the US, developing many top level students.
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Perhaps his best known student right now is Tegan Kavan, who
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led the Texas Longhorns to the 2025 Women's College World
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Series Championship while playing for our guests, close
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friend and former teammate Mike White.
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In addition to his personal instruction, he also created a
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series of popular videos to help coaches and parents learn the
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fundamentals of pitching as well as more advanced techniques.
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In July of 2025, he was diagnosed with stage 4
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pancreatic cancer and given a diagnosis of a short time to
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live. But he's still with us and
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fighting like he always has. Of course, we could only be
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talking about one man. Ladies and gentlemen, please
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give a warm from the Coach's Mouth podcast.
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Welcome to the creator and driving force of the House of
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Pitching, the incredible Bill Hill House.
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Hello guys. Hello, Bill.
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That's quite an introduction to getting there.
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We went from, from from some. Really good stuff all the way
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down, right right down to the the cancer there.
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The the intro fell off at the end.
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Ken. Well, we, we figured, you know,
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we want to talk to you about a whole bunch of different things.
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So, you know, we include it all. In fact, I want to ask how you
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feeling these days? You know.
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I never understood what people go through with when they say I
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have good days and I have bad days with, with stuff like this
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and, and this has been a real eye opener for that.
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It it truly is. There's good days and there's
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bad days and there's, there's no rhyme or reason to to why I feel
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bad or why I feel good on any particular day.
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I haven't noticed any kind of a pattern with foods or anything
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like that so far this morning I feel OK.
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So, you know, last night was a bit rough, but but this morning
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I feel better. So it's just kind of comes and.
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Goes well, I'm good I'm glad you're feeling better,
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especially because we're going to be taking up an hour of your
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time this morning so. Well, that's good do.
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You think your experience as a high level athlete has helped
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you to kind of deal with what's going on right now?
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I I don't kind of one pitch at a time approach.
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I, I don't really think so because I don't think anything
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prepares you for being told you have a terminal illness and you
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know, you basically they, you basically have nine months to
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live. And that's an opponent that
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pancreatic cancer is an opponent that nobody's beaten.
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There's no cure. There's no it's inoperable.
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There I I've. I've gone against a lot of
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stacked lineups in my pitching career pitching against them,
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but but this is the toughest 1. So, you know, I'm pretty
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realistic about it. I understand what my chances are
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and and you know what kind of time I have left and I'm just
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trying to make the most of that as much as I can.
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So Bill, I was going to ask, you know, knowing that that
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prognosis, have you, are you trying to, to fill some bucket
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list things or are you just like staying kind of in the norm?
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Like what's, you know, what's kind of like the thing that
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that's going on? I know a lot of people say they
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want to get out there and do the things they haven't done.
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Or are you just more of like, hey, we're going to, I'm going
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to stay the norm and, and, and work through this?
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Well, quite honestly, Jay, there, there really hasn't been
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any bucket list things. I, I, I'm, I'm kind of, it's, I
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kind of treat life kind of like Christmas.
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You know, I'm a hard guy to shop for for Christmas because when I
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want something, I go get it and. If there's ever.
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Been something I wanted to do or a place I wanted to go, I went.
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So I don't really have a lot of bucket list items, except I
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tried to spend as much time with my son as I possibly can, which
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which isn't easy considering he lives in Europe.
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And that's, that's a whole other subject.
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But you know, I'm, I'm, I'm doing what I can.
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I mean, I'm certainly not sitting at home, you know, poor
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me glum, you know, doing nothing.
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I, I actually started to try to do some lessons again on, on
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weekends just to kind of get out of the house and, and kind of
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exercise that part of my brain again.
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That's, that was not easy to do. I, I took a good, probably 5
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months off or I wasn't doing any lessons And, and boy, the
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atrophy of my brain and pitching lessons was, was pretty severe
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and, and, and you know, get getting back into it just on a
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very, you know, I can't do 10-12 hour days like I used to, but
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you know, just doing 5 lessons a day, maybe, you know, maybe 6 or
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for three hours, 6 lessons, 30 minutes each.
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It's it, it really is done wonders to help me kind of and I
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just stay active and and give me something to look forward to
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each week. Yeah.
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I mean, I know what you mean about that with the atrophy and
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all that. You know, I take a week off and
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I come back and I have to kind of reorient myself and try to
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get back into the rhythm of it. Yeah, it's it's amazing how
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quickly it seems to disappear. Yep, but fortunately usually
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bounces back. For people that don't know your
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full story, how, how did you get started in softball?
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I mean, we know kind of your your accomplishments and the
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high level stuff, but where, where did it all begin for a
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Bill Hill House? Erie, PA.
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That's where I was born and raised.
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My my father played fast pitch softball.
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He was not a pitcher. He played first base in right
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field. He batted 9th only because there
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wasn't a tenth spot. Was.
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Not not a very good player. My brother and I were the bad
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boys for his team. And you know, that was back in
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the day when men's fast pitch softball was everywhere.
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In fact, in Erie, PA, there was so much men's fast pitch
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softball that they actually had a morning league for guys who
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work second, third shift and couldn't play in the in the rec
10:43
league at night on Tuesday, Thursday.
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So guys that worked overnights, they could they get off work and
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they'd go play their softball game at 10 AM.
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And there was leagues that did that.
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And nowadays there's it's just, it's the exact opposite.
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Everything you see today in the women's game was opposite of
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what the men's game had. I mean, it was the men's game
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had it was everywhere. And the women's game was
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basically non existent. And, and the roles really
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reverse themselves here and now the the women's game is all over
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and the men's game is hard to be found.
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So that's kind of where I got started was was in Erie, PA and
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I just. Imitated the pitchers on my
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dad's team and I never quit I. Mean, is that how you learned to
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pitch overall or did you have somebody that was working with
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you or teaching you? I, I imitated the pitchers and I
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asked a ton of questions. I was, I was one of these
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annoying, annoying park rats that was just constantly asking
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questions of the guys and and I started.
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To notice a lot of similarities, you know, the, these guys, they,
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they, they do a lot of the same things similarly, but with, you
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know, Doug Gillis, I, well, I'm sure we'll talk about him in a
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little bit, but Doug Gillis has a, has a, had a program where he
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called it absolutes and styles. And the absolutes are the things
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that every elite pitcher in the world does, male, female, they
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all do the same things mechanically, but they have a
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different style in which they did them.
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And I started to notice that even as a young pitcher, I
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noticed that there was a difference between the styles
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that people were using, but they were still getting themselves
12:29
into the same positions mechanically in their pitch.
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So I noticed that early on. And it it really, you know, I
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guess I was just pretty observant.
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What are some of those, the absolutes that you saw well?
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Things like making sure that you're not pitching around your
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hips, basically anything that's hello elbow is out.
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You know, it's funny. It's funny how that in in the in
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the East Coast and and up into Wisconsin too, There's a game
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called modified pitch softball. I don't know if you guys have
13:05
ever heard of modified pitch, but there's but there's.
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Two kinds of modified. There's nine man modified and
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there's ten man modified. Nine man modified is basically
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slingshot where the guys are allowed to just rear back and
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throw it as hard as they can. Slingshot and you can throw rise
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drop. You can.
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You can throw anything you want. Slingshot.
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But ten man modified is the exact opposite.
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You're not allowed to bend your elbow.
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You can't whip your arm. You have to go around your hips
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when you pitch and you got to step straightforward.
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You can't turn your body. So it, it's always, it always
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makes me laugh that that the people who advocate for hello
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elbow pitching mechanics, they don't realize that that's
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actually mechanics that are. Those are the rules.
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For nine man or excuse me, for 10 man modified pitch, which is
13:53
designed to restrict the pitcher so so it's it's.
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It's crazy that. That that that's still being
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taught as though that is the way to pitch from some people.
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Because like I said, you know, if you play 10 man modified, the
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exact same things that a Hello elbow coach is teaching someone
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are the things that a 10 man modified pitcher has to do, and
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they're very restrictive. Locking the elbow, locking the
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wrist. Do you feel that the modified
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kind of took away from the normal that the real the real
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men's fast pitch? Do you think you kind of just
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drew it like spread it out too much?
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For a while it did for a while it it definitely did it.
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It diversified and and, and took a lot of great players and and,
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you know, they guys that wanted to not necessarily it.
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Basically it's a. Game that you don't want to play
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fast pitch, but I also don't want to say I'm playing slow
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pitch. So it's kind of that happy
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medium that a guy that people like try to talk themselves into
14:51
saying, Oh, I'm not playing slow pitch, but then they're they
14:55
don't want the challenge of playing fast pitch either.
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So it did. But I think even even today,
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modified pitches is really the all all sports are really losing
15:05
numbers and participation, you know, and rec league stuff.
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I mean, you drive by any park it in the summertime, you don't see
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kids outside playing and, you know, using fields and things
15:15
like that. So you know, it's it's it
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definitely took away from it, but did it.
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It's not the the only thing that killed men's fast pitch, that's
15:22
for sure. What else do you think
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contributed to it? Well, I think there's a lot of
15:26
things that contributed to it. And you know, even when I was a
15:30
kid and I'm 53 years old, but when I was a kid, there was one
15:33
game a week of baseball on TV. It was the the game of the week
15:37
on NBC or whatever on Saturday afternoons and now you don't
15:42
have to leave your house to be entertained.
15:43
You can watch the Yankees seven nights a week if you want.
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You don't have to leave home. So people aren't going out to
15:49
the ball fields anymore. People aren't participating by
15:52
going out and bringing their kids and and people getting to
15:55
see it that that really is taken away from a lot of things too.
15:59
Is is just people just aren't going out for their
16:01
entertainment anymore. They don't have to.
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Well then, what about at the upper levels?
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I mean, you've been pretty outspoken about men's fast pitch
16:07
getting the short end of the stick from USA Softball.
16:11
Is that is that still a problem? Unbelievable.
16:15
The the in in further for the first time and forever the USA
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has they have a really good chance to win it both at at the
16:24
18 U level and the 23 and under level.
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And the men's team is is ranked two for the first time a long
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time. So USA men's softball has never
16:34
been in a better spot for the males.
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But they, they just, they won't put the money into it or they
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say they don't have it and but you know, they have the money to
16:44
send the 15 year old girls to wherever they want to go, you
16:47
know, for a Pan Am tournament. But the USA boys team didn't
16:51
even get to go to the Pan Am championship because USA
16:54
Softball couldn't fund it. Yeah, that's that's bad.
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I want to go back to a little bit with your pitching.
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Who are some of the influences or the the people that you know
17:03
really helped you to get to that next level?
17:07
When I was young, I, I and growing up in Erie, PA, we, we
17:11
had the, the men's league was good.
17:14
It wasn't great, but it was good.
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And, and I didn't know any better.
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I didn't know that that what I was seeing was basically a Class
17:23
B level, maybe Class A, a low level Class A.
17:27
So you have 4, you have 4 levels, you have the major, the
17:30
A, the B, the C. And I thought what I was seeing
17:34
was some of the best pictures in the country in, in Erie, PA
17:37
watching these guys pitch because they, I was a kid and
17:39
they were throwing hard and I was amazed at what I was seeing.
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And then I would get to go see a tournament and I would see
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someone who's better than the guys in Erie and I'd go, wow,
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that guy's even better. And then I could see another
17:51
picture and go, wow, that guy's even better.
17:54
And so I started to realize that there was levels above what I
17:57
was seeing at home. And so every time I ventured out
18:01
to a different place, I would come home with a, with a new
18:04
idol. And that's when I started to
18:07
discover, you know, New Zealand softball and, and the growth, or
18:11
I shouldn't say the growth, but the, the popularity of softball
18:14
in New Zealand and, and how they bring in pitchers, teams would
18:19
be bringing in pitchers from New Zealand over here.
18:21
And they, you know, they, they that became kind of The thing
18:25
is, is all the top teams were bringing these guys over from
18:28
New Zealand and then later Australia and different parts of
18:30
the world. And so, yeah, I mean, Mike White
18:34
in particular was one that I looked up to.
18:37
Getting to play with him was, was just a dream come true.
18:41
And, you know, I, I really and genuinely got to play with all
18:45
of my heroes that I was that I looked up to as a kid.
18:49
Not many people can say that. Yeah, yeah, that's for sure.
18:53
And then you mentioned Doug Gillis as well.
18:56
Yeah, Doug, a big influence on you.
18:58
Doug was a big influence in getting me started into
19:00
coaching. He and I aren't that far apart
19:03
and age, but he's, he's got a few years on me.
19:07
But you know, he, he was one of the originals that, that I knew
19:10
that got that started to do his coaching and doing lessons.
19:14
And I remember asking him about it and telling him that I was,
19:17
yeah, maybe I should get into that.
19:18
And he encouraged me to do it. Eventually I I decided to do it
19:22
about 2526 years ago. I started giving lessons and,
19:26
and Doug was always somebody that I could call if I had a
19:28
question or, you know, how do I teach this or how do you
19:31
approach that? And, and you know, he, he never,
19:34
ever, ever refused me any help. So he was a big influence on my
19:40
coaching, that's for sure. So what were some of the early
19:42
lessons or mistakes that from your experience that kind of
19:46
influenced your coaching later on as well?
19:49
Well. Trying to make sure that I
19:52
understood that I wanted people to understand the difference
19:55
between the absolutes and the styles, to use Doug's phrases.
19:59
Because where I think coaches go wrong is they teach their style
20:04
as though it's an absolute. Like I wind up this way.
20:07
So you have to wind up this way. I hold the rise ball this way.
20:10
You have to hold the rise ball this way.
20:12
And you know that that is a big, big component of something that
20:17
that. It, it took me a while to, to
20:21
come to grips with making sure that, that people understood
20:24
that, you know, listen, you can keep pitching.
20:26
The one of the things that's an advantage for me is, is, is
20:29
obviously the background I have where I, I can demonstrate the
20:32
pitching anything I'm telling them, you want to see backspin
20:35
on a rise ball, I'll demonstrate it for you.
20:37
And then and then the girls would say, Oh my gosh, that's
20:40
amazing. Look at that.
20:41
Oh, that's amazing. I said, oh, you like that?
20:42
Well, doing it the way you're doing it, you're not going to be
20:46
able to do what I just did. And I say that unapologetically
20:49
because it's not my rule. I didn't invent how to pitch in
20:52
any way, shape or form. I didn't create this.
20:55
I don't own a patent on anything.
20:57
I, I didn't reinvent the wheel. But you cannot get backspin per
21:03
SE. Let's just use a rise ball.
21:04
You cannot get backspin if you're using hello elbow
21:06
mechanics. It can't be done right.
21:08
So you have to make a decision somewhere.
21:12
Do I want to pitch with these these hello elbow antiquated
21:15
mechanics, or do I want to do what the best pitchers in the
21:20
world are actually doing? Yeah.
21:22
And I think that when you, when you're talking about that, I
21:24
mean there's just certain bio mechanics they have to go into
21:27
it. You can't throw a rise ball and
21:29
get backspin if your hand is facing forward.
21:31
If you're pushing the ball through through release it just.
21:34
It's impossible. Right, and, and, and saying that
21:38
makes you come across as arrogant.
21:40
And they say, oh, though there's, there's all these
21:42
different ways to the top. And, and these are the people
21:45
that, that think that, that, that they can get there, they
21:49
can get to that top of the mountain because even using
21:53
hello elbow mechanics, but you know, some of the best pitchers,
21:56
you know, a, a good example is Jenny Finch.
21:59
Jenny Finch grew up as a hello elbow style pitcher, but you
22:03
watch Jenny Finch pitch and she does not pitch with hello elbow
22:05
mechanics. She does in her clinics and her
22:08
demonstrations and stuff like that when she's going super slow
22:11
motion, but you watch her pitch, she doesn't pitch like that.
22:15
And I, to my knowledge, I don't know anybody that's ever called
22:18
her out on it and said, wait a minute, that's not what you're
22:20
doing. And and so unfortunately, I've
22:24
never been invited to one of her camps because I would probably
22:26
call her out. So unlike you Bill, I do since
22:34
we're on the rise ball, Bill, I want, I want to talk to you a
22:36
little bit. I use a cue that I believe I
22:39
actually took and stole from you and that is talking about the
22:42
back shoulder, right? Where that back shoulder has to
22:45
be on that rise ball. Can you elaborate a little bit
22:48
for some of the the pitching dads and moms about where that
22:52
back shoulder should be on a rise ball and how the hand can
22:55
get under better? Well, yeah, I mean, the thing
22:59
about the rise ball is, is that that's the one pitch that's
23:02
unforgiving. You can cheat but mechanically
23:05
and have a drop ball, you can cheat mechanically and have a
23:08
change up. You can even cheat to a degree
23:10
and have a curveball. But there's no such thing as
23:12
cheating to get backspin on a rise ball.
23:14
It can't be done. And so the, the one thing that I
23:18
always make sure that I'm really reinforcing is that that pitcher
23:22
hides the back shoulder from the target that allows the arm to
23:26
make to make sure it goes through the hips and not around
23:29
the hips. And that that's not a small
23:32
difference. That's a major difference in, in
23:34
mechanics is making sure that the hand goes through the hips,
23:38
not around the hips. And so there's little cues that
23:42
I'll use to make sure that that happens.
23:44
And one of them is making sure that they hide the back
23:46
shoulder. One of the other ones is trying
23:48
to make sure that the back of my forearm is brushing against my
23:51
stomach to ensure that my hand is under the ball.
23:54
Tip of my thumb stays pointed to third base as long as possible.
23:58
And this, you know, some of this stuff, Jay, is where, where a
24:03
problem lies is the way some of the girls are warming up.
24:06
The way you warm up has a, has a direct correlation to the way
24:09
that you pitch. And when you see like the wrist
24:10
snaps, when pitchers are taught to do wrist snaps, they're
24:14
teaching themselves to use the wrist.
24:15
And the wrist is not your friend on the rise ball.
24:17
The wrist is what creates the bullet spin when you're turning
24:20
your wrist. That's why I really dislike the
24:22
the phrase turning a doorknob on the rise because that that that
24:27
implies that you're turning the wrist and when you turn the
24:29
wrist that automatically is going to make the ball go into
24:31
bullets bin. I think I've heard you say
24:34
hundreds of times, Bill and I, I use it all the times with the
24:37
girls that the wrist is the rise ball killer.
24:40
Yeah, it is because and, and it, and it goes back to the warmups
24:44
when, when you see girls warming up, that's what they do is they
24:47
do the wrist snaps. And, and I, and I don't know if
24:50
you've ever seen it before, but I always one thing that I that I
24:53
tell when I do a speaking engagement to, to coaches, you
24:58
know, I, I always ask how many usually the males in the
25:02
audience, how many here grew up playing baseball and, and
25:05
usually a heavy percentage raise their hands, say I grew up
25:08
playing baseball. And I'd say, but, but have you
25:10
ever in your life seen a baseball pitcher warm up with
25:13
his arm straight up over his head and just using his wrist
25:15
and snapping his wrist like nobody's ever seen that before?
25:19
Because that's not how you throw.
25:21
And an underhand, that's not how you throw.
25:23
You don't want your elbow locked so that you're on.
25:25
The only thing that can move is your wrist.
25:27
Because the the wrist when, when that happens, that's what's
25:30
going to when you're, when you're locked out your elbow,
25:33
you locked out your wrist. Your, your wrist is going to
25:36
well, I shouldn't say locked out your wrist because your wrist is
25:38
going to move if you locked out your elbow.
25:40
So, but that's what kills it is is these wrist snap drills that
25:44
comes back to bite them in the butt.
25:46
How's your understanding of mechanics changed over the years
25:50
or, or has it, I mean, have you kind of adjusted as you've gone
25:53
along as you work with more kids and, and seen more different, I
25:58
guess body types and, and movement patterns and all that?
26:02
I, I don't think, I, I don't think I've changed too much.
26:06
If I have, it's been so long that I've been doing it, that
26:09
it's happened so gradually that I haven't noticed.
26:11
I think I'm just a little more aware of some limitations that
26:15
some girls have. You know, it's, it's it, I'm
26:18
sure you guys have this too, where some of the most dedicated
26:23
passionate pitchers are the ones that have the least amount of
26:26
talent. And the ones that just can roll
26:28
out of bed and throw 65 miles an hour are the ones that just go,
26:31
hey, you know, yeah, you know, it just drives you insane that
26:35
because that's 65 mile an hour picture.
26:37
Just imagine how good you'd be if you actually put 100% into
26:41
it, you know? But I, I, I don't know that I've
26:47
made any, any changes necessarily to what I teach.
26:50
I, I, I genuinely dislike the term IR that whole IR debate and
26:55
internal rotation. It's it, it drives me insane
26:58
because people think that that is like a style of pitching as
27:02
opposed to what it actually is. And just describing what your
27:05
body's doing, even Hello elbow is, is really just describing
27:09
what you're you're kind of doing.
27:11
But I don't think I've, I've changed too much.
27:15
I've, I've pretty much stayed the course all the way through
27:18
and I think just more people have kind of caught up with what
27:21
pitchers are actually doing. I'll tell you guys a funny
27:23
story. I spoke at a coach's clinic in
27:26
Seattle a number of years ago and the the headline speaker was
27:30
Sue Enquist, former UCLA head coach, winner of all the
27:34
national championships, everything like that.
27:37
And there was 300 people in the crowd.
27:39
And, and she said her first thing she said when she got up
27:42
on, on the dais was how many here have my hitting videos from
27:47
9:50 years ago on my VHS tapes and everybody wanting to be a
27:50
good student raise their hand. I, I have all your stuff, Sue, I
27:53
have all your stuff. And she said, throw them away.
27:56
And I, I thought, boy, from a marketing standpoint, that's
27:59
outstanding, man. She's going to be resell
28:01
everything. But, but she said, you know,
28:04
everything that a lot of things that we thought we were doing,
28:08
we weren't actually doing, like squish the bug.
28:11
That's not what the hitters are actually doing.
28:13
And, and pitching, you could relate that to pitching as well.
28:17
I think the Hello Elbow started off from a good place.
28:20
It started off where people thought that that's what they
28:23
were actually doing. But now we have software
28:25
programs and we have high speed cameras and we have all these
28:29
tools and rap sodos and gadgets and, and, and we're finding out
28:33
what the body is actually doing, not what we think it's doing.
28:37
And, and that's made a difference.
28:39
Yeah, some people. Some people saw the light and
28:42
others or just going to die on this hill.
28:44
Yeah, that's the thing that I get a student in sometimes and
28:47
she'll say my high school coach or my travel coach told me that
28:51
I should do this or I should do that.
28:53
Then, you know, it goes totally against what good mechanics are.
28:55
And I say tell your coach to throw out the VHS tapes and
28:59
maybe at least buy a DVD. Yeah, yeah.
29:03
It, it's, it's madding, isn't it?
29:05
When, when somebody is coming to you for for, for this, for this,
29:11
this coaching and then the high school coach who has no business
29:14
teaching pitching tries to get you to because they saw a video,
29:18
you know, somewhere. In in.
29:19
Sometimes there's no business teaching geometry, but that's
29:22
another step. I also want to talk to you.
29:26
Have you used the pitch logic ball at all?
29:28
Have you? Do you have that out at all or
29:30
no? Some, one of my students got one
29:33
and started using it and it's, it's just amazing to me how that
29:38
ball does what, what they say it does.
29:41
You know, the dad's got his, his phone and he's, after every
29:44
pitch can tell you the, the spin raid and everything.
29:47
It's, it's, it's just amazing how every day there's something
29:50
new that comes out that it's a new gadget and it's, it seems
29:54
like it's a pretty good tool. I, I, I think it's probably good
29:58
just for the sake of measuring, just to see if you're picking up
30:01
your spins and stuff. The, the problem with some of
30:04
that stuff, though, is it doesn't help correct the spins.
30:06
It just shut tells you where you're wrong or, or what what's
30:09
happening with it. So I, I don't really use all
30:12
that stuff myself. I'm not a big gadget guy.
30:15
There's very few gadgets that I recommend and endorse, but that
30:18
one seems kind of interesting to me.
30:21
It seems like it's kind of a, a modified version of rap Soto in
30:25
a way. Is that what we're talking
30:27
about? The the the ball that you throw
30:29
and you just get the the results on your iPhone and.
30:32
Yeah, you know. Yeah.
30:33
So yeah, that's something, I mean, I've been using it and
30:37
actually I think it's helped a lot with the kids.
30:40
It's not something I think you can use by yourself.
30:43
A lot of times, you know, that's the kid can't do it.
30:45
But for me, what I found is when we're using it, getting that
30:49
feedback and seeing it that way, it has helped the kids to
30:52
understand better how they need to change or what they need to
30:56
do to make an adjustment. So I, yeah, I, you know, I
31:01
think, you know, for me, it's had some value that way.
31:03
I think it just helps the kids with some understanding.
31:06
Yeah, and, and I think I, you know, anything that that helps
31:10
the kids is, is a good thing. And there's, you know, kids are,
31:14
are a lot more tech savvy than than probably the three of us
31:17
are. So they, they understand the
31:19
gadgets and the, and the tools and all that stuff.
31:22
I, like I said, I, I catch for every one of my students when
31:26
I'm doing lessons. So I'm, I'm seeing it all first
31:29
hand and that's based that, that's basically how I will
31:34
construct the lesson or whatever it is that we're working on at
31:37
that point is from catching thing, the rotation on the ball
31:41
from the rotation. I can tell immediately what
31:43
they're doing right, what they're doing wrong, what what
31:46
they have to alter and how. And that's pretty much the first
31:50
thing I do with a brand new student to begin with is make
31:53
sure they understand why does the ball go where it goes?
31:55
If they don't understand why the ball is going to the left or to
31:58
the right, they're not going to know how to fix it.
32:00
And you can yell all day long, Susie throw strikes, throw
32:02
strikes. But if she doesn't understand
32:04
why she's not throwing strikes, would you know, how is she going
32:07
to be able to make corrections? I think, I think my, my
32:10
catching, I, I'm just not a big gadget guy and, and maybe maybe
32:16
that's to my detriment a little bit, maybe I should be a little
32:19
bit better, but at this point in my life, I'm, I'm probably not
32:22
going to change. Yeah, yeah, You know, I mean,
32:25
it's like I'm, I'm so old now. I told people I don't even buy
32:28
green bananas so. What I used to do all night now
32:34
takes me all night to do it. Hey Jay, on a scale of 1 to 10,
32:41
how important do you think brush contact is for pitchers?
32:45
It's pretty high up there Ken, probably a 10 since it's hard to
32:49
get maximum speed and or accuracy without it.
32:51
Yeah I agree, but have you ever had a student who struggled to
32:55
get good light brush contact? Sure, all the time, in fact.
33:00
Especially when they've been taught hello elbow and are
33:02
trying to throw around their hips or they're sliding their
33:05
hips out of the way doing that crazy ninja move.
33:08
So what do you do when you run into this situation?
33:11
Keep railing on them until they get it right.
33:13
I used to do that a lot, but then I learned about a product
33:17
called Pitch Squeak. Ken, Pitch, Squeak.
33:19
What's that? It's a cool little armband with
33:22
a squeaker inside of it. Like a dog toy.
33:26
Yeah, kinda. So how does it work?
33:28
Well, you slip the armband onto the pitcher's forearm and you
33:32
set it so the squeaker is where the brush contact should happen.
33:36
Then when the pitcher goes into release, she tries to get it to
33:39
squeak like this. If she makes it happen, she got
33:43
brush. If there's no sound, she knows
33:46
immediately and can make a correction.
33:48
Wow cool, so she gets immediate audible as well as tactile
33:53
feedback. Oh, there you go again, showing
33:55
off with those big and technical words again.
33:58
But yeah, she can feel it and hear it.
34:01
Does it really work? You bet it does.
34:04
I use it with my students all the time and it helps them learn
34:07
how to get brush contact pretty quickly if they practice with it
34:11
sounds. Neat.
34:12
Where can I get one? Oh, it's easy, Ken.
34:15
Just e-mail support@pitchsqueak.com and
34:19
Jason, the inventor of it and a Poly Girl certified pitching
34:23
coach himself, will ask you how many you want and send them
34:26
right out. I'll do that today.
34:28
Thanks, Jay. What's that address again?
34:31
Oh you bet, Ken. It's support at pitch.
34:35
Squeak dot com one more time for those of you who are listening,
34:39
support@pitchsqueak.com and don't forget to mention in the
34:44
e-mail that you heard about it right here on From the Coach's
34:47
Mouth podcast and you'll receive 10% off.
34:54
So what makes a drill actually valuable versus just social
34:58
media filler? Oh boy, if it incorporates the
35:04
actual pitching motion, I mean, the, you know, like, again,
35:08
going back to the wrist flips drills, I mean, the, that's,
35:12
that's going to come back to bite them in the butt.
35:14
And so I, I want to make sure that whatever drill they're
35:18
using is something that, that, that is going to be beneficial
35:23
when they actually pitch. Now that, that sounds like, of
35:26
course, that's simple logic, but when you see how many drills are
35:30
out there that don't make any sense at all, it's a statement
35:34
that still has to be made. I don't understand a lot of
35:37
drills. I see.
35:37
I do not understand pitching from my knees and like I'm Eddie
35:42
Fainer King in his core, pitching from my knees through
35:45
my legs and all that stuff. And I, there's, there's, there's
35:51
a lot more bad drills than there are good drills.
35:53
And I, I think you said it right that that a lot of them are just
35:57
fillers for their lessons. Yeah, or even just trying to get
36:00
social media clicks. Jay and I talk about that all
36:02
the time that, you know, social media, you got to be constantly
36:07
putting stuff out there. And I think sometimes they, you
36:10
know, people just sit there and they try to come up with
36:12
something so they have something to post that day, but it isn't
36:15
necessarily valuable. Yeah, that's that's kind of the
36:19
that's the rub, isn't it? Is trying to trying to, to to
36:24
make your post have have some meaning behind it and and logic
36:28
behind it and and actually helpful to to to a pitcher and
36:34
and you know, not everybody's itching at the same place.
36:38
So what what a fix for one thing may for one person may not be
36:43
the fix for the for the next person in line in the in the
36:46
clinic. So what it's like, for example,
36:51
saying hide your back shoulder on the rise ball.
36:53
Well, Sally might understand what I mean, but Jane next to
36:56
her doesn't understand that. So then I'm going to have to
36:58
come up with another way to explain it to Jane.
37:00
And I I try to keep all that stuff as simple as I possibly
37:04
can. That's why I don't really spend
37:06
a lot of time with drills because I think drills come back
37:09
to bite people in the butt, especially when they start doing
37:11
them wrong. And, and, and not the not the
37:15
least of which is some of these drills for the whole IR thing
37:18
when you got people forcing the IR, which is what is I see a lot
37:24
of times I see people forcing like just rolling their hand
37:27
over as they're releasing their, they're, they're teaching
37:30
themselves some another bad habit.
37:31
I mean, you're just trading one bad habit for another.
37:35
And it, but oh, I'm doing IR, I'm doing IR.
37:38
Well, that's great. But you're you're just trading
37:41
one. I mean, I think that's one of
37:42
the most misunderstood parts of pitching, you know, in the whole
37:46
IR idea is I see so many kids that come in that say, yeah, she
37:50
was taught, you know, the parents said she was taught IR.
37:53
But I can see that she's just pushing the ball out and then
37:55
rolling her wrist over after the ball is gone.
37:58
It's like this is not, this is not to make it happen.
38:00
This isn't let it happen. Yeah, it's it's very similar to
38:05
what people who throw a turnover drop.
38:08
You people who who do the turnover drop or the rollover
38:11
drop the ball, if you watch them put it in slow motion, 99.9% of
38:16
the time the ball is out of their hand.
38:18
By the time they roll their wrist over and they do that
38:21
goofy turnover where they finished down with their hand.
38:25
What is the point of it? What is the point of doing that
38:27
added motion at the end of rolling the wrist over when the
38:30
ball's already been released? What What made the ball drop is
38:34
not the turnover motion. It's that you did everything
38:36
else probably pretty well. You probably rolled it off your
38:39
fingertips good. You probably had a shorter step
38:42
so that you didn't over stride and and hang the ball high, but
38:46
it didn't have anything to do with that turnover part.
38:49
And you know, that's drives me nuts when people say they throw
38:52
a turnover drop and you watch them and they're not actually
38:54
throwing a turnover drop. So you know, the hardest thing
38:58
about the drop ball is the simplicity of it.
39:01
So Bill, I want to ask you, what do you think about this current
39:06
trend of people teaching the leaps?
39:09
You think it's good or bad for pitchers and for the game?
39:13
I think something had to be done because the hot bats and the hot
39:17
ball, I mean you're when you're infield has to wear face masks
39:21
because of how hot the bats and the balls are.
39:25
Something had to change for the pitcher because it's everything
39:29
has been geared towards the hitter in recent years, I think.
39:33
I think strike zones have shrunk or so.
39:35
Maybe I'm a little biased on that, but.
39:38
Not according to all the parents I talked to after a tournament
39:40
over the weekend. Yeah, yeah, it's been on which
39:44
side one it, it was the next phase in the evolution of
39:47
pitching Jay. It it was, it was bound to
39:49
happen. I think.
39:52
I think though that people are taking it to the extreme though
39:56
and, and just just, there's, there's too many people that do
40:00
not understand the difference between a leap and a crow hop.
40:03
And the majority of what I see being taught is blatant crow
40:06
hopping. And I don't understand how
40:10
they're not being called illegal.
40:12
I think that that the, the governing bodies, if you will,
40:16
the, the, the rule makers, they did this just for the sake of,
40:20
of taking this off the umpires back.
40:24
And so the umpires just say, I think it's a leap and that's all
40:27
there is to it. It's a leap.
40:28
It's not a crow up, it's a leap. And so gives gives the umpire
40:32
some deniability is to, they don't have to look anymore
40:34
because now leaping is legal and they don't really have to pay
40:37
attention to whether it's a crow hop or a leap because it all
40:40
comes down to discretion. It's the umpire's discretion
40:43
whether or not it's a leap or a crow hop.
40:45
And so I think that's why it started to really catch on is,
40:49
is that umpires just they, they were, they don't want to get
40:53
accosted in the, in the parking lot after games because, you
40:57
know, Sally's dad costed them for calling illegal pitches and
41:02
now they don't have to. But mechanically speaking, if
41:06
it's done safely, I don't think it's going to be a problem.
41:09
But there are some issues that happen when pitchers grow up
41:12
And, and it, you know, a lot of pitchers that have low back
41:16
pain. It's, it's from the, the
41:20
pounding that taking from, from crow hopping and landing on that
41:23
back foot. But it's it's pretty common
41:25
thing to get some low back pain. So there's there's trade-offs to
41:29
it, that's for sure. Yeah, but you know, if you win
41:33
the the the Winter Breeze tournament indoors, isn't that
41:38
worth sacrificing a kids back for it?
41:41
Sure, sure. Of course it is.
41:44
Yeah. It, it's, I, I, I don't know
41:47
where it's going to go at this point because I think they've
41:49
painted themselves in a corner with not this not having clear
41:53
cut definitions between a crow hop and a leap that they're just
41:57
letting umpires have the discretion.
41:59
And I guess it's always going to be that way to a degree.
42:02
But I mean, what I'm seeing, particularly from, from a couple
42:07
social media pitching coach pitching coaches is they're just
42:11
blatant crow hops. And, and I, I, I really worry
42:15
about the kids because eventually they're going to run
42:17
into an umpire who does know the difference and is going to call
42:20
those pitchers illegal. And will that kid be able to
42:23
adjust? Will that kid be able to make an
42:25
in game adjustment to, to pitch quote UN quote legally as
42:31
opposed to, you know, the crow hopping that they're doing?
42:35
And I can tell you from first hand experience, it is not easy
42:38
to, to flip flop from one to the other.
42:41
I had to learn how to do it both ways, both legally and with crow
42:44
hopping. It's, it's not easy to flip
42:47
flop. Timing gets disrupted,
42:49
everything gets disrupted. So I, I, I think it, I think it
42:54
was an, I think it was inevitable that this is what was
42:56
going to happen. Because it was about the only
42:58
thing that we can really do for, for pitchers is to, to open it
43:03
up a little bit for them. Because these girls have, you
43:06
have 90 LB slappers who can hit a ball 300 feet now because of
43:09
the bats and the ball. So they had to do something to
43:12
open it up for the pitchers a little bit.
43:14
When we look at that and you know, you talk about having to
43:18
make those adjustments and all those kinds of things, that
43:21
reminds me of just general adversity.
43:24
Since you have experience with pitching and being in the game,
43:28
how do you how do you work with your girls to handle adversity
43:32
and challenges and failures and, and all those kinds of things?
43:37
I am one of the biggest proponents of sports psychology
43:41
out there. I have a guy here in town that I
43:44
work a lot with that when I have pitchers the, the kind that are
43:49
serious and the kind that are going to put the time in with it
43:53
and are going to make a difference with it.
43:56
I, I send them to sports psychologists and they're like I
44:00
said, I have a guy here who is a, he's actually a, a softball
44:03
coach as well. And his part time gig is sports
44:07
psych. His full time gig is, is he's
44:10
like truly one of the guys on Criminal Minds and he goes
44:13
around to the prisons and interview serial killers and
44:15
stuff during the daytime and then, yeah, and then, and then
44:19
he his, his passion, his softball and, and sports
44:23
psychology. And so, you know, the, the, the
44:26
good and bad, there's 100,000 pitching coaches out there, good
44:30
and bad. There's 100,000 hitting couches
44:32
out there, but there's very few that really work on the brain
44:37
and, and how to how to teach yourself how to think and how to
44:41
stay cool in the moment. And you know, that's something
44:45
that the US Olympic team spends a lot of time with too.
44:48
Having spent time with the Olympic team, they, they bring
44:51
in the sports psychologist. He does individual meetings with
44:54
them and group meetings with them and, and we had it with the
44:57
men's team too. We had access to the Olympic
44:59
sports psychologists and I, I really wish I would have gotten
45:03
more opportunity with it because it's, it's invaluable,
45:07
invaluable. And I, I tell parents that
45:11
operate clubs or particularly parents, but, but even if it's
45:17
just a club director, find out if any local colleges in your
45:21
area offer sports psych. And if they do contact that
45:26
professor, see if the students in that class will come out and
45:29
do field training with, with the, with the softball teams
45:33
and, and that and put apply what they're learning to, to, to a
45:38
softball team. That's great.
45:41
Yeah. And and that's it's, it's
45:43
something that if they did again, it's, it's just, it's
45:48
hard to put hard to quantify how valuable that is.
45:52
Yeah, it's, although it sounds like that guy that's working
45:55
with the prisoners during the day, maybe instead of working
45:57
with the kids, you ought to be working with some of the
45:59
softball parents. Yeah, check it out as well.
46:02
That's, that's that's a whole other subject too, isn't it?
46:07
Softball. Softball pitching parents.
46:10
Yeah. I don't know.
46:11
Are they as crazy with hitting as they are with pitching?
46:14
Yeah, Yeah, I think so. The only thing I do hitting is
46:18
is just throw live batting. I don't I don't do any.
46:23
I don't do anything outside of pitching, like I don't do any
46:27
kind of hitting lesson or anything like that.
46:29
I throw live batting to them. And then when they get to a
46:33
certain point, then I'll start working with them on how to pick
46:37
pitchers and what to look for from the box and how to see, you
46:41
know, what the pitchers going to throw ahead of time.
46:43
And it's things like that, that, that really if, if they're just
46:48
taught how to, how to look for things just just like catchers
46:52
calling games, it's just ridiculous to me that we're
46:55
getting dugout, they're getting signals from dugouts in Division
46:59
One college softball because they don't, they're trained like
47:02
robots when they're kids are not taught how to call games,
47:05
they're not taught what to look for.
47:07
They're not taught how to react. They're not taught.
47:09
And, and it's, it's, it's just, it's frustrating because it, if,
47:14
if you have somebody that can teach that sort of stuff, it
47:17
cuts out that element of needing to get all the signals from the
47:19
dugouts. And, and, but it's, it's, it's
47:22
also just about getting their softball IQ up by watching,
47:26
paying attention. You're going to get jail fired
47:29
up here. Oh.
47:32
You're not. You are.
47:33
Well, I was just going to say, Bill, when when, when you were
47:36
playing back in the day, I mean, the coach wasn't really a coach.
47:40
You just kind of had to figure it out ourselves, right?
47:41
Like, I mean, you just learned and then you didn't make that
47:44
mistake again. But you learned by doing it, not
47:47
by someone telling you. Right.
47:48
Yeah, there's it's it's, you know, we're in in my world, it
47:53
was more about, you know, the coach made-up line UPS that it
47:56
wasn't, you know, coaching per SE and on, you know, there
48:00
wasn't calls coming in from the dugout for pitch selection and
48:03
things like that. That that doesn't exist in men's
48:06
softball. Probably more out of ego than
48:08
anything, but. Yeah, so you mean they didn't,
48:11
you know, on the 1st and 3rd they didn't, you know, call a
48:13
time out and go talk? To everybody and tell.
48:14
Them what to do? Yeah, that if you haven't
48:18
figured it out already, then yeah, it's amazing how that's
48:22
almost a a guaranteed time out, isn't it?
48:25
First and third, Yeah, almost guaranteed to be a time out.
48:28
All right. So we've been talking about
48:30
parents and you have that experience now with your son.
48:36
He's a championship level swimmer, a sport that you really
48:39
don't know anything about, or at least didn't grow up doing.
48:43
What's it like being on the parent side?
48:45
Well, it's, it's, it's, it's a little, it's a little unfair
48:52
because he does all his stuff. He lives in Europe, so he, I
48:55
don't get to see him swim all that often.
48:58
But when, when they do stream some of his events, I'll, I'll
49:01
get up at 3:00 AM to, to watch his event.
49:05
It's nerve racking. I can see why, why parents?
49:08
I think, I think if I was a softball parent, I would be one
49:11
of those that that takes my lawn chair out to center field and
49:15
sit because I would, I would be too boisterous or at least my
49:21
body language would denote how I'm feeling at that moment and
49:26
with, with the pitch selection or whatever.
49:29
And so, yeah, I would probably just excuse myself out to center
49:34
field and and let the coach do his coaching and or her it.
49:38
It is hard. It is hard because you, you want
49:41
to be there to you want to help him.
49:42
I want to help him with everything I can.
49:45
But I'm also aware of my limitations.
49:47
I'm not a swimmer. I can't teach them anything
49:50
swimming. The only thing I can do is drive
49:52
them to the pool, you know? And I Yeah.
49:54
And I wish that more people knew their limitations when it comes
49:58
to pitching. Makes you wonder why sometimes.
50:00
Why? Why are you paying for these
50:02
lessons when you know better than me?
50:05
Yeah, so I, I've done a thing before where, you know, I'll
50:08
have a parent that's trying to give advice or, or even worse to
50:13
me, is repeating what I just said, you know, you know.
50:17
So I'll tell them, you know, hey, you know, if you want, I'll
50:20
go sit on the bucket and catch and you can do the lesson.
50:23
But I'm going to charge you the same amount no matter which one
50:25
you have me do. Yeah, yeah.
50:28
You know, a mistake that parents make is, is they say something
50:32
to the kid every pitch, every single pitch, good or bad, they
50:36
got something to say and. And you see it like the girl
50:39
will throw a pitch and she'll immediately look the dad for,
50:42
for feedback. And it that's, that's no good.
50:48
You can't, you can't have that because what's going to happen
50:51
if dad isn't there that day and the feedback isn't always going
50:54
to be there for that's why I'm, I'm a big proponent of teaching
50:57
them what they're doing right, what they're doing wrong on
51:00
their own, so they can tell themselves what they did right
51:03
and wrong and how to fix it. But yeah, it's that that's,
51:08
that's where I come from with it is, is I'm making sure that the
51:10
kids know what they done themselves so that they can make
51:15
their own self corrections. Yeah, I think that's important
51:18
to you. It's become your own pitching
51:20
coach. Learn what you're doing wrong.
51:23
That's why I like to what we call the Socratic method.
51:27
I try not to tell them what to do.
51:29
I try to ask them what they did and see if they can figure it
51:33
out. So that and I even will tell
51:36
them why am I asking you this question?
51:38
And they usually know. So when I'm out there pitching,
51:40
I can figure it out. You know, something's going
51:43
wrong, I can do it. And said, yeah, because you
51:45
certainly don't want your coach or your parents or anybody else
51:47
yelling advice to you at that point.
51:50
You just need to be in the zone and focused on what you're
51:53
doing. Well, one of two things happens
51:55
when a parent or even a coach. It doesn't even have to be a
51:57
parent, could be a pitching coach who says something after
52:00
every single pitch. One of two things is going to
52:02
happen. That kid is either going to
52:04
become dependent on that feedback and after every pitch,
52:08
stare, what did I do good? What did I do wrong?
52:10
Or they're going to learn to tune you out because you're
52:13
saying something every single pitch.
52:15
And either way, it's not a good situation.
52:18
So. Hope I hear ambulances.
52:21
That's that's not coming for you, is it?
52:24
No, Sir, I don't hear anything. OK.
52:27
Did you really hear an? Ambulance.
52:28
Yeah, I can hear an ambulance in the background somewhere.
52:31
Maybe that's by me. Might be by one of you guys.
52:34
I'm I'm we're yeah, OK, no ambulances here.
52:38
All righty good. Just want to make sure.
52:40
Yeah, that's, that's The thing is, is there's that balance
52:43
between, you know, the, the coaching, the the coaching and
52:49
the over coaching because there is a such thing as over
52:51
coaching. First thing I do with a new
52:54
student is make sure they understand why does the ball go
52:56
where it goes. If they don't understand that,
52:59
they're not going to know how to make corrections themselves.
53:01
What What is one of the first things that you look at when you
53:04
get a new student in? How do you when you're
53:07
evaluating them? What are you looking for?
53:09
Can tell a lot just by watching her throw overhand.
53:13
The first time she throws the ball overhand, it can tell.
53:15
It tells me a lot. If there's good form or bad form
53:18
in the overhand throw. Is going to tell me a lot about
53:20
what can I can expect in the underhand now, is it?
53:23
It's not a foolproof method. So there are people who aren't
53:26
very good at throwing overhand but can throw underhand pretty
53:29
well, and vice versa. But.
53:31
You know, remember Jolly Selden over at UCLA?
53:36
Yes, you know, that is one of the hardest things to do in
53:41
pitching is to throw overhand after you've been throwing
53:44
underhand like that. And I tell all of my students
53:48
that in between innings, when you get your 3 warm up pitches
53:53
and I throw it down, they throw it around.
53:55
I will stand there and I will throw overhand with my third
53:58
baseman until the batter is on their way into the box and
54:02
they're ready to go and the umpire says play ball.
54:04
I will just sit there and throw overhand.
54:06
Just making sure that I keep those muscles in shape and ready
54:10
to go so that if I do get a comebacker, it's not going to be
54:14
an errant throw. Hopefully, because it it is
54:17
really hard to be to throw a ball overhand, especially if
54:21
there's a fast runner and you got a house, you got a hustle.
54:25
But just take, take two or three throws, throw it over to third
54:27
base and just keep keep that that overhand motion working for
54:32
you because you never know when you're going to need it.
54:35
So Bill, where do you see? The future of softball pitching
54:40
head and. Future of softball pitching.
54:44
Well, I think it's only going to keep getting better there.
54:47
There's a lot of a lot of male coaches, a lot of male fast
54:53
pitch coaches are getting in fast pitch players are getting
54:56
into the the college game and and their daughters are playing.
55:00
And and it's not to say that that men are the end all be all
55:05
to to this, but it's, it's adding another dynamic to the
55:09
game, another style of play, if you will, to the game.
55:12
And so it's it's it's only going to help increase the level and
55:17
make make pitchers better having having more opportunities and
55:22
and having more voices to hear from.
55:25
I think the future of it looks pretty good.
55:27
You look at we were just talking about that ball that has all the
55:30
gadgets attached to it and everything, you know, look at
55:33
all these things that are coming out now that are designed to
55:35
help pitchers. It's it's starting to starting
55:38
to kind of there's a lot of good lot of tools out there now.
55:42
So I just because I'm old fashioned dinosaur, I'm not
55:45
using them doesn't mean that there isn't any value to them.
55:48
But you know, it's it's I think it's it's only going to keep
55:55
getting better. Look at the look at the pictures
55:57
that are out there today, Geordie ball and and Niger E
56:02
candidate and you know, Tegan Kavan and you know, they're
56:07
they, they all they're they're, they're the top of their class.
56:11
You know, they're the top of the top of the game.
56:14
And if you look at them, they all have pretty similar motions
56:17
and so similar mechanics anyway. So you know, I I think it's only
56:24
going to increase. I think the more of the the
56:28
hello elbow coaches. They're they're for the most
56:31
part, I I see them dropping off. I don't think there's as many as
56:34
there used to be. But like I said before, there's
56:36
some that are going to just die on that hill.
56:40
Yeah, absolutely. From your perspective, are there
56:43
things that maybe don't show up on a stat sheet that college
56:47
coaches value? So I guess some of the
56:50
intangibles that kids might bring?
56:53
Body language. Body languages is a huge one.
56:58
There's a famous story, and I don't know how true it is, but a
57:01
famous story that Patrick Murphy recruited Montana Thouts.
57:06
He made her her offer of of Obviously he was going to offer
57:10
her anyway. But one of the things that
57:12
happened was Thouts pitched in a game and she got rocked
57:16
apparently, or didn't pitch very well and she didn't go in the
57:19
dugout and cry or sulk. She was the the biggest
57:22
cheerleader for the pitcher who came in and supported her.
57:25
And that right there showed Murphy that this kid gets it.
57:31
And, you know, some days, some days you got it and some days
57:34
you don't. But she didn't pout and sulk the
57:38
way that a lot of kids will today.
57:40
Didn't have to put up with any crap.
57:43
You know, I didn't worry about the the outcome.
57:47
She just knew that she still is a good pitcher.
57:49
And, and it was. But that was how Murphy made his
57:53
offer to her. Apparently was after that game
57:56
that she did, she didn't do very well.
57:57
And it was because of the way she handled defeat.
58:02
So it's kind of a cool story, even if it's not true.
58:05
Yeah, definitely is. If you could give one message to
58:08
young pitchers chasing big dreams, what would it be?
58:11
One message, ask questions. Or you can make it two or three
58:17
will. Say ask questions but like the
58:19
way I did. Ask how, how you know, Go to
58:26
talk to don't be shy and and afraid to ask for help from, you
58:31
know, if you see somebody that well, I don't think of how I
58:35
want to say it. I just, I just ask people all
58:38
the time. How did you how, how did you do
58:41
that? Why did you do it this way?
58:43
That's how I was learning how to pitch was asking all these
58:46
questions. And I think sometimes girls are
58:48
a little shy to do that because they have a pitching coach.
58:52
They don't want to step on toes of the pitching coach, but if
58:55
I'm seeing the best in the world doing something that might, my
58:58
pitching coach is not teaching me.
59:01
I need to know why that is and and so why why are you teaching
59:07
me to pitch hello elbow when that's not what that girl's
59:09
doing over there who's pitching for Texas?
59:12
So I would ask questions as much as I can.
59:15
That's the biggest thing is find the common denominators in the
59:19
answers because they, they're all going to say I, I hide my
59:23
shoulder, I whip my elbow, I get my legs into it.
59:26
You know, whatever the appropriate thing is that that
59:29
whatever the question is, ask questions.
59:32
You know, I think one other thing that's kind of cool about
59:35
you is that you've been pretty vocal about not really promoting
59:41
that you were the pitching coach for this kid or that kid.
59:44
I didn't know you were Tegan's pitching coach until you happen
59:47
to mention it to me. You know, in another context.
59:50
Why are you that way? What's the what's the reason
59:53
why, you know, so many people want to go out there and make it
59:56
seem like they were the reason that this kid or that kid was
59:58
successful. Why do you kind of step back
1:00:00
from that? For that exact reason, because
1:00:04
I'm not the reason that Tegan could, then every kid I work
1:00:07
with gets the same exact information.
1:00:11
It's what they do with it that's different.
1:00:13
Now, some, some kids just have more natural ability than
1:00:17
others. There's no question about that.
1:00:20
But I I just don't take credit where where it's not due.
1:00:24
And, and, and these girls put the time and the work in.
1:00:28
And I don't think it's my place to say, Oh yeah, well, I was I
1:00:32
was her coach. And I just try not to take
1:00:34
credit for their hard work is really what it comes down to.
1:00:40
Yeah, I, I. Yeah.
1:00:42
It's it's like I said, they all get the same training.
1:00:44
It's what they do with it. That's the difference.
1:00:46
Yeah, I love hearing you say that because that's the same
1:00:49
thing that I'll say, you know, when somebody's talking about a,
1:00:51
a kid I have that was having some success is like, you know,
1:00:54
I, I judge my abilities on the kids that are having the most
1:00:59
trouble, not the least trouble. Exactly, exactly that I you get,
1:01:03
I get more, I get more out of seeing somebody with the lesser
1:01:08
ability do well then you know, I do with somebody I know is going
1:01:12
to be good. Somebody I know is going to make
1:01:15
it. And those are the ones that
1:01:17
bring you back after week after week is the those those ones
1:01:20
that you know, man, they just appreciate what you taught them
1:01:24
and and they're going to work at it and you know, it doesn't
1:01:27
matter that they're not the best pitcher in the country.
1:01:29
They're just going to keep working hard.
1:01:31
Those are the ones that it's it's enjoyable and you got to
1:01:35
have the right parent mixture too, right?
1:01:37
You got to have the right parent mixture where you know the kid.
1:01:40
I've we've all had students where the dad is just a nut job.
1:01:45
Let's be honest, There's there's a nut job and I had I had a
1:01:49
student once that that that dad can't take it.
1:01:54
If if she can't, she keep her backspin wasn't there that day.
1:01:58
He can't take it. He'll go out and sit in the car
1:02:00
because he gets so mad and frustrated with his daughter
1:02:03
because she can't she's having an off day.
1:02:06
And it's, it's these are the people that you see on Oprah.
1:02:09
You know that that Doctor Phil. So yeah, I, I am, I'm a big
1:02:17
bullet. I, I just don't, I don't take
1:02:19
the credit for, for somebody because of, I, I don't take the
1:02:23
credit for, for anybody's success.
1:02:26
And the same is true for the speed factor too.
1:02:28
I, I've, I've never held up a picture with somebody with their
1:02:31
speed gun and stuff like that. And I, and I understand why kids
1:02:34
do it. It's a great motivation tool for
1:02:36
them and and they're proud of their achievement and I I get
1:02:40
it. And if if they do it on their
1:02:42
own, that's great, but it's just not something I promote myself.
1:02:45
Yeah, and I will admit I do do that.
1:02:47
And I I do it because I want to reward the kid.
1:02:50
You know, she she worked and she did well.
1:02:53
And I'll usually tell a little story about it, you know, and
1:02:56
usually try doing some little funny things that happened.
1:02:58
Like I had, I had a girl. The last one I wrote up was
1:03:02
yesterday, Tuesday night. I had this girl, Gwen, and she
1:03:05
told me at the beginning of the lesson that her dad told her.
1:03:08
She got back up to her previous high.
1:03:11
He'd give her $100 and then if she got a new high, he'd give
1:03:16
her another $100. She hit both goals.
1:03:20
And I, you know, when she came back after we took the picture,
1:03:22
I said, So what are you going to do with that $200?
1:03:25
And she just looks at me and she goes, that was just a scam.
1:03:28
They're not going to pay me. I think I, I see most of the
1:03:35
girls can that, that you're talking about on your social
1:03:38
media that hold up their radar gun and stuff.
1:03:41
And those girls are just beaming with pride, right?
1:03:44
Beaming with pride. And, and that, that alone would
1:03:47
be worth it to, to, to hold that memory for them, you know, So I,
1:03:52
I don't blame anybody for doing it.
1:03:53
It's just not something I do myself, right?
1:03:56
Yeah, no. And again, I I don't hold it up
1:03:59
as an example of my great teaching.
1:04:00
I hold it up as an example of this kid worked hard, she set a
1:04:04
goal and you know she did better.
1:04:07
Yeah, yeah. That's The thing is, is you
1:04:10
know, it's all about the context that you're not trying to pick
1:04:14
take the credit or you know, you know, blow, take the wind out of
1:04:19
their sail. Awesome.
1:04:21
Well, Bill, we've had you for more than an hour now, so we're
1:04:23
going to let you wrap it up here too.
1:04:25
But before you know, we can't, Ken and I can't thank you
1:04:28
enough. You're a legend in this game.
1:04:30
You've taught and helped me tremendously.
1:04:32
I know you've helped other pitching coaches and we can't
1:04:35
thank you enough for that and what you've given to this game.
1:04:38
Before we let you go though, is there way, is there a way for
1:04:42
our listeners to help you with your medical expenses or?
1:04:45
Yeah, that would, that's, oh, that would be so helpful.
1:04:49
As I said at the outset of talking to you guys, you know, I
1:04:52
used to do 10-12 hour days on Saturdays, Sundays, and then I
1:04:55
had weeknight lessons and now I'm down to doing 6 lessons a
1:04:59
week. So my, my, my, my expenses have
1:05:04
not changed, but my income has certainly changed.
1:05:07
So my girlfriend set up a GoFundMe account.
1:05:10
If you go to gofundme.com and then type in Hill House cancer
1:05:15
or just Google Hill House cancer GoFundMe, you'll find it.
1:05:18
Anything helps. Anything helps.
1:05:21
It's I'll tell you what, it costs more to die in this
1:05:24
country than it does to live. So yeah, isn't that a shame?
1:05:28
Expenses and everything else that goes with it.
1:05:31
But that would be extremely helpful.
1:05:33
I still get emails from people a lot that ask for pitching help
1:05:37
and I always want to say to them, well how about you help
1:05:40
me? Yeah.
1:05:43
But yeah, that would that would that I appreciate you bringing
1:05:46
that up. gofundme.com is is some people have just Venmo directly.
1:05:52
My Venmo is William Dash Hill House Dash 1, 3369 is the last
1:05:57
four of my phone number. Sometimes people need that to
1:06:00
send a Venmo to somebody. They've never been mode before.
1:06:03
Yeah, it's, it would be very helpful.
1:06:06
Take anything I can get. And it sounds I never thought a
1:06:10
day would come where I would be doing that, but here I am.
1:06:13
Never thought the day would come where I told I have a terminal
1:06:16
illness either so. And then is House of
1:06:20
pitching.com. I mean, are you still selling
1:06:23
DVDs and. Well, DVD markets pretty much
1:06:26
gone now. There's nobody, I mean, if
1:06:29
anybody wanted DVDs that would just pretty much give them to
1:06:31
them. OK.
1:06:33
My, my website, I, I, I got hit with a malware attack about
1:06:37
almost 10 years ago now. And I never put it back up
1:06:42
because I was coaching in college at that point.
1:06:44
And so when you're coaching in college, it restricts what you
1:06:47
can do with private lessons. And so I just never put it back
1:06:51
up and got my website going again.
1:06:55
And fortunately I have enough name recognition.
1:06:59
I guess the Hill House is a goofy enough name that people
1:07:02
recognize the name and and I was able to get lessons here in
1:07:05
Nebraska pretty quickly, so it worked itself out.
1:07:10
All right, great. Well, Bill, thank you so much
1:07:13
for joining us today. You know, we know you got a lot
1:07:16
of stuff going on, so we really appreciate all the time and and
1:07:19
everything you've done for the sport.
1:07:22
So we wish you well, hope that thank.
1:07:25
You guys hope that this was my pleasure.
1:07:28
Like I said earlier, you know about stretching those softball
1:07:31
muscles in the head. This this helped with that.
1:07:33
You guys asked me some questions I got to really think about, so
1:07:36
I appreciate that. Oh, great.
1:07:38
Thanks, Bill. All righty.
1:07:40
Well, that's it for us this week.
1:07:42
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1:07:45
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1:07:47
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1:07:57
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1:08:00
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1:08:06
Coaches Mouth podcast, have a great rest of your week and
1:08:09
weekend.