Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Call to Stand & Oddities - Towers of Midnight chapters 27-28 - EP561

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A Call to Stand & Oddities - Towers of Midnight chapters 27-28 - EP561 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Anyway, we have we we've strayed way off topic as
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: we've ended this chapter. Because I think we've ended this chapter.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: You think you think we're done.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I think I think we're done. I think we're done.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: We turn off recording. You know what we've we didn't
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: thank our patrons that we right?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, one one last little thing to put
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: up here at the top of the episode before we
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: close out for the day.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: So we have three people to thank for patreons since
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: the last time we have thanked our patreons. We have
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Russell Hinson, Thank.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: You, Russell. And we also have someone who I saw
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: in the live chat today, Lady Marzipan, Thank you so much.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Hmmm, I do love Marzapan.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Is fantastic, good name, good name choice because I love
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: terramasou right, so who does not love tiramis sorry?
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: And shout out to Ian for upping your donation.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we noticed a undoubtedly not to be sustained
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: level of upgraded donation. We do thank you very much
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: for the brief spike. That's very sweet. Thank you Ian.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: All right, shall we uh okay get into this, so
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: we're doing two chapters today, an A GWayne chapter which
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: is light years ahead of the next chapter after it,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: which is the parent chapter right well, except the Alda
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: pov has got to be later because that's that's in
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Rand's timeline.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Who needs timelines? No one needs to timelines.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: It's ridiculous. Remember when we used to sink timelines up
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to make the plot easier to understand? Nah, this is
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: way too have to sync for us to do that.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: But yeah, today we're doing a call to Stand and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: oddities and I just a call to stand. I was like, huh,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: that feels like a really familiar title, and then I
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: looked at the title list and sure enough, Chapter twenty
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: four was to make a Stand, And now here we
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: are chapter twenty seven a call to Stand. And I'm
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: just really feeling a lot of laziness from the chapter
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: title department at this point.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's also a reference to back when
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: there was a call to stand. It's like any vote
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: in the ambulens or in the hall, there's always going
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: to be that call for the majority to stand, right,
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And so I'm not sure I didn't check to see
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: if that was also a title back when she got
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: her proclamation that she gets to the war on Alita.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I think that might have also been called.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, is this like another leave takings kind of situation?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing't. I haven't done the research.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: It's just like we're gonna use the concept of standing
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: over and over again because it's just so plot relevant.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: I think that one was called called to a sitting
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: or something. Okay, stand, rollover, shake, play dead.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Good Amberlyn Goodmberlin. Yes, do you want to treat? Do
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: you want to tear Ungryelle? Yes? Okay, you're gonna have
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: to go get him from Lane. Okay, go get him.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Go send a couple of accepted good girl. Okay, I've
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: been training Harvey too long.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So she's writing a letter right about Rand to high
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Lord or receiving a letter and then replying to a
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: letter from high Lord Darklin.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the Rand was so clever to piss
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: a GWayne off so that way she would collect all
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: of his allies at the fields of marillor a ligned
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: behind her, so that way, if he can convince her,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: he convinces everyone else. In one films to Hahaha, isn't
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: he clever for using her to be his secretary, right,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: this is her doing his secretarial bidding in a four
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: D Chess kind of way, and yeah, basically saying, bring
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: all your people over after Darling. This letter from Darlin
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: is saying eyah, the Shan though kind of sketch.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Right, everybody's saying, but the sean Chan. She's like, no, no, no, no,
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I promise you gateways if you need to get back,
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: bring your whole army, because if you need to get back,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: I will totally give you gateways to get back immediately.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: So you're not even really gone.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Right, which is I mean, I guess sure, But because
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: her premise of being just against rand on principle is wrong,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: I don't care.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Right, the breaking of the seals is like this thing
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: that of course he needs to do, right.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's what you were saying in the last episode
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: that Sanderson really likes to spend a character's time on
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: something that means nothing at all, Like he likes to
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: set them up to be doing something that's pointless. That's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: really a GWayne. Opposing the breaking of the seals is
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: like it's just wrong, it's just incorrect and doesn't matter
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: and is a really frustrating thing. To spend a Gwin's
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: page time on less frustrating than going. But I would
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: like going to do something cool rather than two things
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: that are very frustrat.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: He likes to put them in a direction, like he
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: gives them this task they need to do, which puts
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: them in the right direction, but the task is ultimately futile,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: only for them to discover they're in the right position
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: to do something else. Right. That's one of his little
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: favorite tropes. And that it's like it's one of his twists.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: You know, everyone's like he's so good at twists. That's
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: one of his like standard twists. Really like, oh, this
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: thing that I thought matter doesn't really matter, and but
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: it does. But it put them in the right position
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: to do this other thing. And I'm not going to
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: throw out too many examples out there, but like they
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: exist in his canon.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, he he has not invented this. This
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: is a thing that other people do for sure, but
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's pretty basic on the
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: twist scale. This is like one oh one for twists,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: and sure, I'm annoyed that it's being used on a
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Gwain like this.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Once she sort of realizes that like she's like, oh,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I'm using Rand's proclamation to gather the monarch. She sort
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: of realizes not this that she's doing it ransmitting, but
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: that she is bringing together. She's using that proclamation to
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: bring together her side and her group of people. After that,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: she gets the news that the invasion in the Borderlands
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: has begun.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Right right, which does synchronize us between a Gwayn and
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: a Tiralda, which you know, again, like you were saying earlier,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: we note that this all has to be very modern
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: because Giralda is really getting pushed down to the wire
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: and Rand is going to need to rescue him pretty soon.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Pretty soon, right, because he's in we find out just
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: doing delaying tactics. Yep. The next thing is Sylviana basically saying, Hey,
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: the meeting of the Hall is happening.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Hall is back to its tricksie ways, and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Agwain has kind of set up a couple of contingencies
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: for this. She wants to be informed right away, She
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: wants her supporters to be informed right away. She has
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: sort of a legislative idea in mind, just waiting for
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the Hall to set her off.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: We get these two accepted Nikola who we all know
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Nikola and Nissan.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Nissa Nissan Nissan Kia.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: What Nissa is one of the fan named characters named
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: for Nissa Reich and bach Oh, So she got.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: To hang out with Nikola and kind of tag along
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: for some relevant careership.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Totally no, And that's where some of these characters, these
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: isaid I get mentioned more than once, who are fan
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: based characters. So and there's and then there's an Aschaman
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: as well, who gets quite quite a number of mentions.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So that's what I think. In the last chapter, I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: was saying, it's kind of lazy that he only mentioned
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: the name once. Like here he does a better job
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: of actually using these characters for a scene or two
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: and using the name several times, as opposed in the
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: last chapters where it was like plugging the names, used
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: pronouns for the rest of the mentions of them and
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: never see them again.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Maybe they were written at different points in his practice
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: of that particular.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Technique, because we have a couple of more Isidi here
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: that have the name fan names, right, So Rachin is
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Rachin Cunreal is named after Rachel O'Connor. Oh cool, I
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: didn't find anybody for Veria who's their sisters. So I
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: only got one name there, so I don't know if
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: the other one was actually named after somebody, but I
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: would assume it was sure, but I didn't wasn't able
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: to find that name. And we get like lists of
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: the sisters who are sitting there.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Right, which are all women that we've had around forever,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and ever none of them are right right. I mean,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: it's the hall, it's the integrated hall. She interacted with
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: both of those halls pretty intensively, and there's.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: A complete list in the Encyclopedia Watt if you want
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: to like figure out exactly who's in that room. They
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: broke it down, so I don't think we need to
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: repeat that information.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: And then Agwain does one of the cool lines of
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: these two chapters where she comes in and Ramand's like,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: so are you gonna say anything? And Gwen says, well,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: you didn't invite me, so I assume you didn't want
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: my words. I'm just here to watch.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I kind of enjoyed that was that was a good
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: little Agwayne SmackDown. I enjoyed that one thing. I don't
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: enjoy most of this, but okay, I liked that there.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Is bones here of what, you know, the manipulation that
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Agwayne is so well known for, or she doesn't manipulate
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: the hall. But again, I feel like it just kind
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of happens in front of her and she goes, sure, yeah, great,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Like she almost doesn't even make anything. She doesn't manipulate
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: anybody here. It just kind of falls into her lap.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Well, you don't have to manipulate people if they're already
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: where you.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Want them, I guess. Yeah.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: The thing is that I think is supposed to be
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: clever about this is that she anticipated all of these moves,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and she's nine steps ahead of them, not by manipulating them,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: but just by knowing what they're still reacting to her,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: and she's acting ahead of them. So essentially, she's, you know,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: sloughing off a bunch of responsibilities onto them so that
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: she can focus on other things. And it just so
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: happens that that is what they think they want. I
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: don't know if I believe that tea women with two
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: thousand years of collective experience between them, didn't anticipate what
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: an eighteen year old could think of. Sure, but that's
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: what the cleverness is.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: But we ignore that, right, because we ignore that Agwaine
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: and Rand don't have the experience that they don't have, right,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: we just give them the experience. Rand, now, I guess,
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: has the memories of four hundred year old man, right,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: but just one though, yeah, just one.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: I mean she's going up against you know, literally like
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: two thousand years of a king that lived experience, right, right, right.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: But so what happens, right, to summarize, is they take
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: away the powers of war away from her, which she's like, great,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: I don't have to do that administrative duty anymore, because, like,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: the war with the Shadow is going to be this big, giant,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: sprawling thing, not just this fight against the White Tower.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: So the paperwork is very hard for one person to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: do for this entire, big, sprawling war, right.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Right, This is something that Congress should be in charge of,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: not the president personally. That just makes logistical sense.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: And if you look at the American like political system,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: that's the way it's supposed to be, right. Congress is
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: supposed to run wars. The president is not supposed to
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: be declaring war, right.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: The president is supposed to be talking to other heads
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: of state who have their own congresses. We're actually prosecuting
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: the war. Like that's how the layer cake is taught
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: to us in school, So that's how it works. Correct.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, we're going to ignore what's going on in the
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: real world right now for that. We don't need to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: talk about who's doing war. But she does say and
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I think the thing that gets me is Leanne is
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: the one who suggests she should deal with kings. I
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: think if she had suggested it and they had approved it,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I would have been happier Llaane. But yeah, Llaane. Sorry.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: The fact that Lelaane is the one who suggested it,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: it kind of feels almost just like because she didn't
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: influence Lelaine in any way. She didn't like plant this,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: she didn't like reach out to her. You know. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: feel like if there have been some other backdoor manipulation
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: to get her to say that, I would have been
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: happier with that.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If we had had some passing comment in the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: hall where a GWayne planted a seed like a week ago. Yeah,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like this is a thing that we didn't
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: get to see as much of on the page as
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: we should have. I feel like we're being told what
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: happened rather than shown what happened. And I personally would
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: have preferred a hallway walk and talk sniping session between
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Agwayne and Lelane to Paren reiterating how he doesn't understand
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the difference between what axes and war acxes. This feels
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: like we skipped an important little bit of interaction in
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: favor for an ompteenth iteration of something we already knew.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Oh and the other thing I really hate when doas
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: scene in your Ukiri walk in and say what motion
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: are we standing for? And Saren answers an important one
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: and they go, oh, okay, we'll stand with no context,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: no idea what's going on, no idea what they're actually
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: voting for, and they make the balance like they that
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: ends the vote. It's like, what, like, what taveran bullshit?
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Is she pulling here? Right? Like? This to me very coincidental,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: very lucky.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: No, they came in because they were summoned by Nicola
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: and the other chick. That's the whole point is that
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: they were summoned. You gotta go and stand with the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Omelin right now.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Okay, So they're told to stand okay, okay.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: This was the contingency that Agwayin had planned for us,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Like at some point I'm going to summon you, and
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: you need to walk in and just stand for whatever
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the hell is happening.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: I missed that. I missed that well because it's.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Not obvious because we were not given nearly as much
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: page time to put that together as we could have been,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: because again, paren doesn't understand that it's book thirteen anymore.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm really just stuck on parent being stuck
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: on his own shit, and I just like I can
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: put this together like what I mean, did hear? But
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: it needed a few pages of her being clever with
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: some eyes to die to really make this feel what's
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the term you used the other day? Earned? This does
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: not feel earned. This cleverness feels like tevere and twisting
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: rather than her actually being clever. But if you read
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: really careful, you can see she did the work. She
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: just didn't get the page time to like show us.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: She's just telling us at the end, Aha, look at me,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I am clever because now I've reunited the tower. We
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: don't need to examine my actions. We need to navel
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: gaze with Parin.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: And so in that sort of interaction when they realize, hey,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: we fucked up or you fucked up because you gave
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: her the powers to deal with the dragon, and now
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: we're dealing with all the administrative crap Agwayne basically says, listen,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: this is stupid. This meeting in secret is stupid. Let's
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: stop doing it, and let's vote to stop meeting in
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: secret because it just leads to all the backbiting. It
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: led to the weird deposition of Suan where not everybody
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: was present. Let's make sure that everybody gets notified before
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: we have these meetings, right, And it's a pretty simple
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: procedural but significant procedural change that everybody just agrees with
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: her on.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which okay, cool.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Which I mean And it feels like doing undoing one
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: of those you know how we always talk about people
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: like why is the tower so dominant? We're like, well,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the Black ADJA has put in institutional things that are
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: just stupid and make things work badly, and I think
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: this is one of them, the meetings in secret. Yeah,
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and so it's undoing some of those Black AJA institutional badnesses.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unnecessary bureaucratic red tape that's meant to slow
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: and concentrate processes and flows of power.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: And make it easier to influence a vote with a
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: minority of people, so you can get together your black
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Adja buddies and like push to have something past. Yeah
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: with that with a minority in secret, like the overthrowing
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: of Suan.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the White Tower needs to be way more transparent
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: than it has been, and this is a necessary rectification
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: of what has Yeat been built to obscure.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Let's see, I don't know if Agwain says they could
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: have pulled the command away from me at any time.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I'm like, could they because I thought they needed your
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: approval to do that at least that way. But I
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: guess there's other ways that they thought of that they
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: could have pulled the power away from her, So I'm
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: not going to nitpick too much over that point. So
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: then she sends away the accepted to go get the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: town real from Elaine.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Because she is trying to catch what she thinks is
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Massana and the Blood Knives. At the same time, she's
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: really only going to catch Massana. The Blood Knives are
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: not going to be in the dream. But either way,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the assassinations have tapered off and there's been no further
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: attacks on her infrastructure, so she's trying to up the
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: odds of Massana wanting to interact with her by doing
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: a whole dream thing, which somehow Elaine had managed to
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: make several dream terran grill at some point, but has
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: not sent them over to the tower yet. I'm a
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: little confused about how Elaine suddenly has a bunch of
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: dream to ungreel because I thought she wasn't making them currently.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's making Wolfhead tranngreoll, she's pumping those or
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Foxhead tarangreol, she's pumping those out.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but no one asked her to make more dream
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to ungrill and she hasn't talked about doing an engineering
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: work session at all. So again I'm I'm confused why
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I had to hear and will continue to have to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: hear so much about parents naval gazing when there's all
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: this cool stuff that the girls are doing. The women
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: are doing.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Right, that's just in the sort of backgrounded and barely mentioned.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think it's kind of weird.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: But so, I mean, Gollin has killed the blood knives.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: I don't remember if there's any blood knives left.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why he almost dies in her arms.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Okay, fighting the other so he hasn't.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Because I think there was six. It got sent in.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Brinn killed one. He's currently scared off two at a time,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: and I believe he takes down three in that final fight. Okay,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: he didn't, he didn't kill any in this other interaction,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: but I'm pretty sure it's three in the final fight
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that he takes down.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's three in the final fight. Yeah.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: So I don't quite know what happened to all of
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: the blood knives. We know that one died two in
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: the initial incursion, and then he kills three, but so
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: that leaves two unaccounted for.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: We also don't know, you know, they say wearing the
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: blood knife ring is deadly, but they we have no
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: idea how long it's going to because right days pass
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: here without a murder, Like is there are they putting
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: on rings in turn? So that the you know, is
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: the first three put their rings on, and then the
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: next three wait till they're dead to put on their rings.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Like what's going on there? Like how long does it
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: take someone to die from the blood ring because Gowin
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: just you know, goes up against it's killed pretty quick.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: We know that if you take the ring off, it
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: slows the process. It doesn't stop it, but it does
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: slow the process if you remove the ring. So if
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: you only put the ring on for your actual incursions,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you can stretch it out for quite a while. Whereas Gawain,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: you know, puts all three on at the same time
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: and just keeps them on. And yeah, also he gets stabbed.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I think that the I think that they
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: all activate their rings, but they just slip them on
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: and off pretty frequently, so that way they can stretch
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I think they find little hiding spots and like take
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: the ring off right exactly.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: If you find a broom closet that clearly no one's using,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you don't have to wear the ring while you're sleeping
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: in there for eight hours. Oh yeah, al, I might
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: have been four only yeah, I honestly don't remember. I
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: feel like when we saw them take off, we did
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: get a number. I just don't remember what the number was.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Let me see if I can find anything, because.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Two one like kisses them on the head and is like,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: may your sacrifice bring honor to the empire or whatever.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Ah okay with the wikie says five blood knives were
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: sent five one of them attacks Susan and Gareth Brandon
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: is killed. So there's four left notices. One near Gwayn's room,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: but is unable to kill him, retains his knife. He
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: enters Agwayne's chamber, finds two blood knives, a third one
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: entering shortly thereafter. So yeah, there's one. There's like, yeah,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: one unaccounted for, right because five enter, four killed and
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: one is totally unaccounted for.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: We just lose a whole blood knife, an entire assassin
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: dedicated to causing chaos and mischief for the good guys,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: and we just lose him between the couch cushions.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah oooooo, I mean as far as I can tell, Like,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: someone correct me, please, but that's four definitely killed. But
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: the fifth unless you want to count the one that
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: like threw his knife at him and ran away as
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: the fifth one. And somehow he like just you know,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: curled up in a corner and died after that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of different headcams we can apply
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: either he or she died without making another kill, you know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: the blood knife time or thing, and a Jiggy ran
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: out while they were you know, still stuck in a
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: broom closet trying to figure out what they were going
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to do next. Or they defected to the good guy's
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: side and decided to use their assassin powers on the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: side of the good guys without ever announcing their presence.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Or they ran off to make mischief and chaos elsewhere
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: to return to the shan Chan to make their way
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to the front lines. Maybe one of them was a
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: dark friend and just bounced immediately to go try to
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: assassinate too on. There's a lot of things that that
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: fifth missing one could be doing. Bring us your fanfic.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be actually a pretty good fanfic. Is just
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: like that one Blood Knife who like sees goll And
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: take out three of the other Bloodknives, is like peace,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: like just I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put this
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: ring back on. I'm just gonna out of here and
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: I go live my life as a farmer or something
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: like that, you know, and carrying around the secret you know,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: secret in his pocket that will kill him if he
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: ever puts it back on. But at some point when
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: he's an old man has to save a family that
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: he created and puts the ring back on to take
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: down some of the final trollks roaming the countryside and.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: His name was Pilbo Pagans, right exactly?
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Would it be kind of be like your grandpa pulling
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: out a gun to like shoot something, and you're like, oh,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: where'd you get that gun? You see like a Nazi
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: symbol on it, and he's like, I've had it for
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: a while.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's kind of like if a monster busted
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: in your door one night and your dad pulled out
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: a Heron mark sword from under the bed and it
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: was like, actually I fought for teer that one time.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Were they part of the good guys or the Axis
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: of powers? Though?
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I did learn a pretty interesting thing a while back
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: that immediately after World War Two, a lot of the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: motorcycle gangs that went around with Nazi icons on their
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: stuff it was all war trophies. It was not allegiance
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: to the Nazi party. It was I ripped this off
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: of a Nazis corpse.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Sure, yeah face.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: That was a period of the photographs and the stereotype
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: where it's like no, no, no, those are war trophies.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: It's different.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: It's not the same as like now when you're just like, oh,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: that means that they like Nazis, Like no, no, no,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: they liked killing Nazis. That was actually what that meant.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: For a hot minute.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I grew up with a Japanese a flag of from
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: World War two, the Japanese Empire on my wall that
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: my grandfather, who fought in World War Two, captured and
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: brought home and framed and passed down to my mother,
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: right like, So that was something that was in my house,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: was a war trophy from World War two, right like,
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I remember that. So I have no idea where it
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: is now. I think it ended up in my sister.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: With my sister, I think no idea.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: There's a whole display of those at the Astoria Marine Museum.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: I think they had a whole wing of that space
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: that was dedicated to captured flags and it was a
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: very moving exhibit. Really just trippy seeing those, like just yeah,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: these are like the actual like picked up off of
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: a battlefield flags. Very trippy. Oh Sama, Nassai has come
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: forth through us in chat The fifth blood Knife was
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: found during a subsequent search of the tower. The individual
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: killed two or three guard slash warders before being put
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: down by other tower personnel.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Oh thank you, wow.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Nice, thank you very much. You have earned that brown
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: color on your name. Love that, Okay, So yeah, they
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: effectively died ineffectively. They were hiding at a broom closet
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out what to do next. Is everything
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: unrappled and then ultimately got cornered and killed like a rat?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Right? I mean they took down some of these like
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: a bunch of these deaths were from the Blood Knives, right, true?
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: And I mean taking down two or three more good
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: fighters on the way out is not bad, but okay, cool.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: So I guess don't bring us your fan fick for
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: what happened to the fifth Blood Knife. We know what
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: happened to canonically stand Out turn Down.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I can dream though, right, I mean it's fiction.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: You can do what you want. It's just a wave.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: So she's yes, she's starting her plan, right. She's spreading
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: these rumors that she's going to have a meeting until
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Iron Riod at night, and so she's spreading rumors to
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: that effect so that people that this will get back
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: to Messana and she'll show up in the dream world,
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and that she's using the girls for that. That's part
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: of why she's sending them to fetch the Tarangreoll and
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: telling them that they're going to be trained and using
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the tearrang grell so that they're going to be there
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: for this important.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Meeting right right, And this is mainly so she can
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: spread rumors like, yes, she does need the tarrank grell,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: but she's very free with that information and doesn't swear
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: them to secrecy because she needs the rumors to not
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: take too long to fly.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: So they found out that Gowain has you know, through
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: gateways of course is in and or oh yeah.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: He did not just go off to sulk in the city.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: He ran all the way away to his sister. And
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: then Agwaine says the most true thing ever that man
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: will be the death of me unfortunately. Yes, yes he will.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah he will. Fuck that's rough.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And yeah, she orders him to come back so that
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: way he can you know, save her life before he
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: is the death of her.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: And does that order like piss him off because it
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: said in the most harsh way of like you are
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: commanded to return or something like that.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's in Sylviana's voice, not.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Agreeen ya, not that, but like if you look at
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Agwain's like I order him to return, like there's no
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: fucking like nuance to it, right, Yeah, yeah.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Even though you completely suck. I need you to come
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: back right now. And he's like, bitch please, which honestly
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: fair reaction. It's super rude, but having it run through
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: the Sylviana filter does not help. That just adds more.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I don't get the relationship, yeah.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Vinegar to the whole situation. I don't get their relationship either.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You really don't.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: At no point I think is one bettered by the other, right,
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I think that's why it's so they insist on being together,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: but it's like you don't improve her and she doesn't
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: prove you.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. They never make each other better,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and so why would I in the audience root for that,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: right at least as a person who's you know, been
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: married for a while and knows what a healthy relationship
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: can look like.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: But you look like Land and Ninive and they have
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: they make each like she really gets him to break
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: his shell. He is there to support her and save
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: her life multiple times, and just you know, sort of
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: be the rock that she needs when she when her
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: emotions and her get her in over her head, right Like,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: he pulls her literally out of the river multiple times.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: And that's such a good relationship on both sides where
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: they both really are getting something out of that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rand and all of his partners, he gets something
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: from all of them. They all force themselves to level
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: up in order to you know, meet him where he
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: needs to be met at paren and Fayel have They
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: make each other worse and then better, but they do
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: get there eventually, right.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: Right, there's part that they definitely have a more balanced
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: relationship where they struggle to meet each other on certain levels.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: But he certainly needs her on one level and she
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: needs him on many other levels, right, Like he needs
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: her administrative abilities, He needs her like sort of public
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: facing persona to get done what he needs to get
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: to do. He needs her to manage their.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Pr But the one thing that Agwayne needs from Gwan,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: which is a loving and supportive partner, is the one
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: thing he's incapable of being.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: Right, right, and honestly, his his effort should be back
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: in and or with Elaine.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's doing what we want him to do now,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: He's just still managing to not even do that correctly anyway.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Moving on to chapter twenty eight Oddities Odities and the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: last chapter logo was the flame for obvious reasons. This
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: one is the Tralic stuff because oh, because of the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Maradon attack, because they punched through the wall in Maredon.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: It is also slayer stuff, right, so oh yeah, it's
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: true that could be part of that. And it's dark
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: frienderie oddities, oddities? Uh do you want to read? Should
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I read this in we've we've kind of been skipping
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: the readings a little bit because I feel like the chapters.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Don't deserve it, they haven't earned it. Yeah, we're starting
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: out with Paren and Fayel talking about the trial, about Megden,
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: about doing dream stuff. Fayel is, you know, working through
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: her feelings of butt hurt about Magdan slashmore Gaze, which
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: you know is fine. It's a big chunk of information
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: to take in. She's still processing. Paren is not interested
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: in that. He has focused on the air smells weird.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: The wolves are gone. I need to go to the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: wolf stream and figure out what is actually happening because
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: something is wrong. And sure enough, the second he shows up,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the dome is in place and things are wrong.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, he's some of the Dome is affecting
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: the real world and he's sensing that. I do like
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: the line where you know, bel War is probably having
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: a fit for not having to figured out the more
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: gay he did figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, No,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: he's known the whole time. He's known them all along,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: so that was a fun little exchange.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: And he's so good at his job. They don't realize
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: how deep he is in it.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm. We get this line that Domondred smells better
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: than the rest, right, that parent thinks he can bargain
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: with him because he doesn't smell as corrupted as the
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: rest of the white Cloaks. He seems to have some
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: nobility about him.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. And can we just back up to
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: this other really annoying line between parent and Fayel.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Please please please back me up all the.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: Way when Paren tells Fayel stop having an emotional reaction
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: about what Morgaze did. Let it go, and Fayil's thought is, oh,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: I love that he stands up for himself. Now what
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: he just told you how to feel, And you're feeling
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: proud of him for looking out for himself. That is
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: not having healthy boundaries. That is not healthy emotional regulation.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: That is not any of the growth that you claim
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to be having over these past few chapters like telling
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you how to feel has nothing to do with him
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: standing up for himself. Him controlling you is not him
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: having a healthy respect for himself. That is gross and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: I don't like it. I just don't like it. Like
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: it would be fine if she had been like, I'm
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: glad that he's expressing an opinion, but just oh standing
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: up for himself. Why why can't he just be like
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: she had her reasons, maybe ask her about it and
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: then she goes like, oh, yeah, that's the thoughtful thing
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: instead of just let it go. No, I will let
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: shit go when I'm gonna let it go. Not never
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: in the history being told to calm down has someone
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: being told to calm down. Calmed down.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: I think you could adapt it for her to be
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: asking him to do something about it and then saying, no,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do something about it because I
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: don't like him saying I'm not doing something as different
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: from you need to calm down.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you let go harassing me about it would be fine.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: That would be fine. If he's like, I'm not doing
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: anything about it. I don't want to hear more about
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: it because I'm not doing anything about it. Totally fine,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: but Yeah, it's just it doesn't quite hit for me.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: It hits as her being like, oh yes, I love
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: being emotionally dominated. I just maybe she does, But I
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: need that to be a different scene than what's happening
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: right here.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: You know, writing the parent fail relationship well is always
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: a difficult thing to do, and I think Sanderson is
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: giving it a shot here and just falling a little
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: bit flat.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's supposed to be healthy, is
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: the way he wrote it, but I don't think it
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: actually is, is with my critical thinking skills.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's supposed to be this very confrontational stand
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: up for yourself relationship, right where like they both hold
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: their ground when they think they're right. But that's different
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: than what's happening here.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, if I yel is happy that Berylne got
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: all goga for Domindred and so we're going to use.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: That and she happened to notice, right Like there's just yeah,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: yeah Paren couldn't notice, but okay, parent didn't have I'm
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: sure there's no smell associated with the arousal that Paren
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: would be able to smell.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I'm literally in the middle of editing that section of
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: our episodes from last week right now, and yeah, we
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: hashed that out last week.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: So that comes to the Wolf Dream yep.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Paren pops into the Wolf Dream and oh yeah,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: he starts at the Tower of Genji because Matt is
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: thinking about it so much, so that's his entry point
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: for the night.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, weirdly non canon thing that got added there. What
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Like I that's the first and only time that has
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: ever happened and will ever happen.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: It feels like an eye of the worldism. If you
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: heal someone, you can feel where they are forever and
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: every right. It feels like that, except that it is
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: book thirteen and I thought we were past I have
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the worldisms.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: But we have sandersonisms now right, things that like.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: We're past his first book. He has no excuse.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I would just say it's things that he writes in
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: there that just don't necessarily fit in with the rest
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: of the canon for me, or expand it in a
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: way that I don't think. I don't agree with, and.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I don't see why it needs to be here I have.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: It never matters that Paren knows that Matt is dealing
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: with the Terra of Genjar. That never comes up.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: No, it never comes up again, Like it's very pointless
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: to put him here only for him to walk away
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: from it yet know this place is evil, but like
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: he knows that, yeah whatever. There are no swirls in
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: the world Wolf's dream, which makes sense because the swirls
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: seem to be you know, it's like you're seeing the
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: tell Runriod version of them somehow, you're seeing them like that.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: It feels like the swirls use Telerondriod to show you
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: the pattern. So if you're intel a round riod, of
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: course you don't see the swirls.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that totally makes sense to me. You're too
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: deep into swirly land for the swirls to propagate for something.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So you know, they're sort of having their little oh hey, yeah,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: this this place is evil. And then Hopper sort of goes,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: oh shit, something's going on, right because he senses the
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: attack happening. He senses the wolves crying for help being attacked,
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and so he teleports to the glass to the dome,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: to the Violot Dome. Right. Yeah.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: He identifies it as a thing that wolves have seen before,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: but not in a long time. But the more relevant
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: issue is that wolves are trapped in there right now.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: We're not going to dwell on the three thousand years
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: ago world building. We are going to focus on the
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: wolves being hunted right here, right now.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we get a few like Age of Legends
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: slashes from the wolves, right, because wolves have genetic memory.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: And so he talks about flying glowing discs which are
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: just you know, I think show wings, Yeah, and possibly
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: tall structures of steel which are just you know, skyscrapers
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: that we've seen, and yeah, things from the Age of Legends. Yes,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: that's what it seems to be. And that's when these
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: terran real are from. Right, you have we know these
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: were all Age of Legends versions, and it's like privacy,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: it's like having a lock on your door is having
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: one of these in the house, right, so that no
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: one can gateway in and that you have control of
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: who's coming and going inside your home. And so I
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: can imagine they were pretty popular back in the day, right.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Because you can set their radius diameter thing like, yeah,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: it's a security measure. It's a magic force field that
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: allows you to control because like it's a gateway blocker,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: and it totally makes sense for people to not be
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: able to gateway into your house like that just seems
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: like basic security. These are probably really normal for at
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: least you know, upper middle class people back in that
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: classless utopia that definitely didn't need zolof to tree is
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: just wafting over everyone.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Or maybe you have like a downtown with no gateway
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: policy right because people are just moving around too much.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, like no cars in downtown because it's yeah, totally, totally, yeah,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: it makes sense.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: You have to you have to get way to the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: outside and walk in or take a you know, a
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: joe cart or a show cart or whatever they call yeah,
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: you know whatever, their little version of little two wheel
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: bicycles that people ride without a.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Helmet one wheels. Yeah, yeah, my brother's really into those.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Our helmet those things are dangerous.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: That's fine. You're only going twenty five miles an hour.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: There's nothing that's ever happened bad to someone's skull at
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: twenty five miles an hour on pavement. Not once, nobody
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: from anywhere in the medical field come for me.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure a skull pretty much goes like crack
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: against pavement that twenty five miles an hour.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, skulls go crack against the pavement if
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: you just fall over too fast.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Right right, like trip and fall right like like literally, yeah,
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: all right, so that's yeah, psa, the more you.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, dumb way to die, right, yeah, don't wear
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: help wear helmet, Like if you get out of bed,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: just wrap yourself in bubble wrap and wear a helmet.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: So yeah, the dome is a thing that parent has
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: to work out because of course Hopper can't tell him
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the rules, so we spend a little time figuring out
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: how the rules of the domework, which is basically that
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: you can fast travel inside or outside of it, but
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: not through it, and getting through it at all is
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: a struggle. You can do it, but it requires mental
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: fortitude or momentum depending on.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: That is kind of a funny like uh like Hoppers like,
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: if you use the strength of your will, you can
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: easily pass through the pressure and just resist, and parents.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Like eat, it's so too reversive. Can't stop me.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: If it's physics, I'm just gonna use my mass of
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: my inertia, right, even if it paralyzes me. As long
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: as my body's moving fast enough, I'll get through the
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: other side. So I'm not touching it and that'll get
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: me through so that was fun. That was fun.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I enjoyed the physical comedy of that moment. And so, yeah,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: they basically rescue Sparks, right, Sparks has been injured and
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: can be rescued, and so all of the wolves who
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: don't have arms and opposable thumbs distract Slayer while Paren
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: operates as a wolf ambulance.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I did sort of. I liked the parents saying
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: his mental image was more powerful than the substance of
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: the world itself. Right, So there's this idea that you
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: can pass through the dome. This is more of it's
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: just a weave, right, Like, if you really are there, well,
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: the dome it's just a terran greal it's just literally
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: just another manifestation of the One power. It is just
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: a weave. You should be able to pass through it,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: you know, no problem just imagining. It's not touching you
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: if you have that mental fortitude.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Right, which is going to be hard because it is
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a real, constructed, magical object with actual properties. You're gonna
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: have to really really own your place in reality to
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: conflict with this thing. But it can be done.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: That's true. It was brought in through a gateway.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: Or was it just dimension swapped, right, because he just
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: taps it and it vanishes, and then he says you
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: know where to find it, which I always assumed it
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: meant it got put into the dream world and that's
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: where it exists. And also parent has to destroy it
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: using the dream Right, So that suggests that it maybe
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: is more real in the dream world than in regular reality.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you die in the dream, you
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: try and die in the real world, right, there's no
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: yeah allowance for that, right, Yeah.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Either way, it takes a very strong mind to overcome
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: something with as much reality as an engineered object.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: This isn't just someone else's imaginary ropes being thrown at
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: your imaginary knives, right, this is a real object. You're
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: gonna have to put up a bigger fight.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: And because he's the just in the dream, he's not
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: doing his transfer thing yet.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: Correct. Also that which Slayer is and maybe that has
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: relevance to the dream spike. Also, speaking of Sanderson isms,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: what's up with this evil arrow that is in Sparks.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: It's like smells evil and then the far through away
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: they get from it, the more Sparks like comes back
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: to life or whatever like that seems like a mechanic
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: that Slayer has never used before or since either.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, that that that's what's up with that. I just
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: it's a Slayer thing, right, I'm assuming he's just using
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: an evil arrow. I don't have it. I don't have
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: a reason for it.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: It's just weird that he never uses that again. You'd
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: think that that would be like his standard arrow from
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: now one, like as a you know, boss level up.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: But alas, I honestly, I've got nothing. I've got nothing
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: on that. I have no idea why this particular arrow.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, does does Parent ever pull an arrow out
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: of another wolf? Is? Or is they're just killed by
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: the arrows, you know? And so he never actually gets
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: a chance to smell the arrow.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: Maybe when Hopper dies he might be impaled with an arrow, Yeah,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: because he is, because the arrow goes through Hopper and
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: hits Parent in the leg m. But I don't recall
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: the arrow being mentioned as like having special evil properties.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: It's just standard issue screwing with your blood flow arrow.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Just Anderson saying slayers evil. Probably, I don't think there's
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: anything more to it than that less sad and any
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: arrows he invented in the world of dreams, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: have that evil smell to them because he is evil,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: and so anything he creates is going to have that
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: evil miasma. Okay, that's all I got. I'm sorry, I
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: don't I don't have a better reason for you.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Boo hisss.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: So there's this moment where like he's carrying sparks and
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: he couldn't leap directly to the edge of the dome
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: because he didn't know where it was. And then like
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: two paragraphs later he goes to where he came in
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's where the edge of
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: edge was. Like, what do you mean, like you don't
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: know who the edge was? You came in at the edge,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: and then like he does, uh that. I wanted to
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: throw the book computer across the room when I read
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: that much not high every time, I was like, what
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: do you mean? What do you mean? Yeah, because I
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: highlighted it. I was like, you need you can just
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: go back to the beginning. And then two paragraphs later
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: I can go to the beginning. Yeah, okay, okay, Baron,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: you're a slow thinker. Sometimes you did admit that. So
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: he fly, you know, he uses momentum to get back
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: through the other side, gets to the other side, realizes
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: that Slayer's right behind him, and jumps to Dragonmount, where
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: all the other wolves are gathering for Rand's big moment.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, we're continuing to reiterate that the slopes of
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Dragon Mount and the wolves are going to be relevant
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: to a scene later.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: But that's safety, right, because there's so many wolves there,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Slayer would have a hard time attacking. He'd be taken
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: down pretty quick. Yeah.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I was kind of wondering what the choice of that
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: area would be, but yeah, maybe safety in numbers and
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: with a herd of wolves, now.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: What a right? Yeah, come at me. So Whisper is
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: dead like they did these one more right, slayre's a
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: real jerk, right, He's killing them forever. That's why he's Slayer, right,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: because he's destroying these wolves souls. He's not just killing
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: them and putting them in the afterlife.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he went after a mated pair of wolves
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: and killed one and injured the other. And you know
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: that's when Paren and Hopper and the rest of the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: gang were able to affect a rescue. And this really
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: is cementing Paren and Hopper's willingness to train together to
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: take down Slayer. I think Hopper is getting more and
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: more on board with the idea that the young foolish
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: cub can and should be leveled up. And yeah, parent says,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: I want to scout the white cloaks and do more
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: scouty things, and we're going to practice more. And then
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: we POV switch, POV switch up to Maradon and Iceeralda
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: and the ultimately pointless but nonetheless epic seeming battle that
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: is this city.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a cool battle. A lot more names,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: right of these characters.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Well, this is one of those plots where we didn't
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: have a lot of named characters and now we're putting
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of page time in so we're just heaving
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: donor names in here by the barrel load. And uh yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: So they're basically in a siege, big massive siege. They're
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: doing the drums, they're setting up their siege equipment. He's
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: trying to sleep and it's hot.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: It's too hot to sleep, so he comes out and
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: he's summoned by one of the ashaman deep hat Ar. Yeah,
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: and this is also named after.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: A fan, And this guy gets a lot of page time.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: He's pretty cool and.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: He gets a lot of page time and many mentioned.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: So Deep Batar is named after for named for Deep Bandharai,
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: a fan of the Wheel of Time.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Well, this guy either made a really big donation or
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: made more contributions than just financial because he gets a
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: lot of plot importance and page time and really operates
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: as a lieutenant basically under I Giralda for this. He's
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: really critical to how this whole siege goes down.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: And he comes back. He rides with Land in the
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: last battle again, so like he's not just mentioned in
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: this scene either, he gets a whole nother scene. Yeah,
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: way to go Deep.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, and he's I was just looking through.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: He's in Dorin. So he rides with Land not because
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: he's a Borderlander, but because he's a badass. Him and
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Yurly and Deep are up on the wall looking at
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: stuff because the Channelers are feeling that the dread Lords
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: are doing something. This is why he's been summoned. Is
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: that something is happening out there. I don't know what,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: but you should be informed. And then as they are
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: talking through what they're going to do about it, the
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: something unleashes. But that's why he's summoned.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, we don't have much time, and then
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: a short while later.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Big Boom is like something sideine based is gonna smack y'all.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And one would assume then that this tires out the
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: Dreadlords or whoever was gathering the power enough that they
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: have nothing left because they never come back to fight again.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would make sense that the Dark Friends
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: would be more willing to burn their chandelers out to
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: a crisp rather than trying to hold them in any
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: kind of reserve. Which, speaking of holding them in reserve,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: right Toalda here is saying, hey, Ashamon, y'all need to bounce.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: You need to leave because you are a more important
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: asset than this city. You need to abandon us and
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: let us die here without you, because you need to
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: go fight another day, which the Dark Side would never do. Right.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: The Evil Side is never going to do that. That's
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: not how they operate. That's only a good guy sort
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: of maneuver.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. I mean, it could be that
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: they have these these Dreadlords, make the wall attack, never
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: put themselves in danger, and then retreat to go fight
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: somewhere else.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: But we don't see them show up again. So I'm
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: assuming that means they're like burning themselves out to hurl
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: these attacks. I mean, I don't know, we don't have
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: no idea how many channelers they even have to work with, right,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Like how valuable of a resource are they compared to
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: the good guys.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we do never really get any sort of numbers
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: or scale on the Dark friends, not least until much
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: later in a Memory of Light.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Right, And even then it's mostly in terms of the
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Red Veiled Ieeal, not all of the dread Lords as
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: a unit. It's yeah, it's very uncertain. It's just lots.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: There's lots, But how does that stuck up against our guys?
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: We don't really know, right, right.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's definitely people who have gone through and said, like,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: when you look at the numbers that have been set
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: up for the size of these armies, the people we
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: have gathered, the different groups that come together, you really
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: are missing an awful lot of people. In the last battle,
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: there's huge groups, huge armies that like only portions of
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: them made it into actually the actual fight. And you
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: could argue that maybe that was just limitation of gateways,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: but like, it really does feel like you're setting up
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: most of the population of Randland to fight in this
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: last battle, and then you have relatively normal sized armies.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: You don't have, you know, the millions of people that
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: really are getting prepared to fight these battles.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: In my mind, right, it's like there's a maybe half
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: a million combatants kind of accounted for, and yeah, there
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: should be several million people with pitchforks who are ready
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: to do something to save the world. It's a little awkward.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: It's at awkward, and just like groups where you know,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: the ideal seem to be a smaller group than they
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: really should be if you count for like how big
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: the Shidow even though the shadow was the biggest plan,
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Like how big the relative the other clans are relative
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: to them, and they had one hundreds of thousands of people.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: So anyway, that's one of those things that like, I
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: think it's just hard to really keep track of so
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: many people in the scope of it, and like he
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: did a pretty good job with the scope, but I
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: do think in some ways it still didn't feel big enough.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree. So, yeah, while they're talking about
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: whether or not they should retreat or flee or whatever,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: the wall gets blown up and completely changes the calculus
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: of what you could do with a siege right there.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Right then Etereralda gets essentially concussed. He can't really hear
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: or think properly, deep gets one of his legs basically
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: blown off.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, I assume as ear drums are blown out.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: It's bad. And then he gets given the uh supercharged
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: dangerous weave to pep him back up.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: It's the one Moraine did to the horses and the
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: guys back in Eye the World when they were fleeing
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: the Drakar. The one where she makes takes away their tiredness.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except that it's taking away like injury tiredness on
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: top of just general weariness. Like it's it's digging deeper
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: into your permanent life energy reserves what Moriane did. But yeah,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: it does seem like it's in the similar kind of
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: refreshment category.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: And he specifically says this is more dangerous than the
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: female's version of it, right, and so like this is
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: the male version of that weave.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: I would also suspect that there might be an element
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: of quick and dirty battlefield roughness to it that like
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have to be inherent to the male version,
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: but because of when and how it was developed.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: That's what we get, kind of like the battle ready
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: healing that we have from the Isida before Ninieve comes
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: in and teaches them her way exactly. Oh and Tale,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: I didn't look that name up. Antell is named after
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Stephen Antell Nice, as with many of the names. Oh
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: and here here it's got the note, as with many
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: of the names Brandon Sanderson created, was taken from the
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: fans who donated to the Wheel of Time charity raising
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: money for research into amyloidosis. Right. I think I've mentioned
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: that a few others one other time, but I just
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: wanted to always bring that up that a lot of
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: these fan names are from that charity fundraiser.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, Deep got healed through that, Right, he
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: got one of his legs blown off, but battlefield healing
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: being what it is, he could get healed up Toeralda
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: runs out to see how bad it is, and it's
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: about as bad as it could be in terms of
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: his battlefield situation.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: Although what man I think yearly surviving would actually have
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: been a good, really good opportunity to have a channeler
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: and mask of Mirrors come out and be like, yeah,
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I survived when his dead and then like his dead
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: body's lying over in the corner.
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: That would have been good, That would have been really good.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we get to this. This is look I
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: like yearly because of the part where he chose to
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: disobey orders and save I Toeralda and the good guys. However,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: this part where he's like, look, my sister has spotted
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: help coming. You can tell because of the smoke rising
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: from the towers. Surely we should hold on for another
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: few hours. That's definitely not a trick of my imagination
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: or a trick of the bad guys just burning down
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: the place where my sister was. Surely this means that
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: the watch fire system is working. And I'm just like, urly, dude,
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: absolutely not. There's no scenario in which the watch fire
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: system is working and you're gonna get given normal relief,
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: like everything is going to hell. Odds are your sister
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: is in that column of smoke, Like, please be realistic.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: But no.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: He convinces I Toalda to continue defending this city for
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: no reason, so that way Rand can feel extra bad
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: when he shows up and see piles sees piles of
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: corpses everywhere.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, they do hold until Rand gets there pretty much.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: They're basically on the last leg, I think when he
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: shows up.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: Though, and for what for what?
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: The city is a completely burned out ruin full of
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: bodies that they retreat from. Anyway, all Rand does is
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: save the soldiers. It's just you could have saved more
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: if you had left now. But no, Urly has to
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: make a big, puppy dog eyed appeal to I Teralda's egos, saying, oh,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: showed me what it really means to be a great captain.
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: And the sister's name is Sigroll. By the way, we
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: do not get an answer on her fate as far
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: as I can tell.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Well, we never get any kind of reinforcements from that watchtower,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to assume that they're all dead.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Sometimes later, Ida does send a scout by a gateway
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: to the ridge where she was said to have been waiting.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: All the scout found was an empty camp, the fire
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: burning undattended, and Sigrell is named for Sigirl Anderson, a
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: fan of the Wheel of Time.
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah they did they so did.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah you did did so. Basically, he's commenced to hold
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: the line, so he safely says to the Ashtaman, give
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: me everything you got, hold them, kill as many as
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: you can, but basically hold them off for like at
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: least half an hour, and they hold up for an hour.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's so he can prepare an ambush with
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: the city. As now we're getting really into like Final
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Hunger Games confrontation. Right, He's turning the city into a
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: block by block combat zone.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of reasons, Like it's set up pretty
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: well to have a combat zone. It's got these you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: ceilings that are perfect for archery, and long broad roadways
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: that are good for cavalry charges.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: And right, it's the borderland, so the city is built
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: to be a fortress in the last defense. Like down
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: to each building, it's like the Stone of Tier, but
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: at civic, regular people scale rather than a magically constructed fortress.
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: And it's a really cool, like it's a cool battle. Right.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I really enjoy reading the mechanics of how he uses
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: the buildings and uses and I feel like it is
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: based in history and the way people actually built fortresses
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: to set up like this, because it's like you knew
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: you would get invaded, so you know, you set up
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: your buildings to be fortresses. And places to shoot down
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: from that, only you can get up too easily.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and much like every other action sequence in military engagement,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: I had a lot easier time imagining this kind of
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: scene after having Sanderson write it out. Now I can
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: even other contexts where I'm having battles describes me fictional
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: or real. It's easier for me to have that mental
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: visual picture because of how Sanderson wrote these things. It's
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: good battle visuals.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: And they take down a bunch of fades, they take
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: down thousands of trolks, but there's enough of them that
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: eventually they have to retreat, right, and so they're doing
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: this game of you know, instead of they're retreating, ambushing, retreating, ambushing, retreating,
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: ambushing right, rather than fighting them head on right.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: So we see the first iteration of that, and then
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: when we come back to this POV, it's happened many
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: many more times and it has become a bit of
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: a grind. But this is the first version of them
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: where the Trulucks and the fans are like, yeah, we win,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: and then they go in there's like, oh no, no,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: you didn't win. You've moved the battlefield, but now you
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: have to clear the city block by block, and that's
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: going to be hard.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: And what we see is Iyteralda having slaughtered huge, huge
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: numbers of trolucs in our drawal, but having a lot,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I think two thirds of his men or something like that,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: you know, so the cost of doing this is.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Very high, right, and I Heeralda displays the whole being
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: a great general thing by saying, here's one of the
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: lessons of being a general. If you ever have an
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: impression that you're doing what your enemy wants you to do,
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: do something else. That's quintessential art of war.
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Never do what your enemy wants you to do or
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: expects you to do, like ever ever.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Unless you can use it against them and scare them.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Right, right, Because these rules are contradictory and meant to
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: be broken because it's instinct.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: A lot of it's instinct, and it's rule of thumbs
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: that like.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Right, it's pattern, our cognition. It's yeah, having really good instincts,
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: good at putting yourself into someone else's shoes.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I kind of think about it with math formulas, you know,
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: where if you look at physics formulas a lot of times,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: there's other terms that come to play under very different
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: physical conditions, and a lot of the physics that we
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: learn are simplified versions. That's basically, you know, moving nowhere
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: close to the speed of light, we can simplify the
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: laws of gravity pretty well, right, But there's all these
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: other terms that come into play when you're moving fast enough,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: or have enough momentum or there's enough mass nearby. And
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: this is very similar in that way where it's like
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: something's coming to play in some circumstances but on others.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so Yearly really wants Ialda to take this one
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: victory and turn it into reholding the wall which has
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: been blown open, and I Torota says, no, no, no,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: we're in a war of attrition. We're not retaking the wall.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: We're not keeping the city. We are simply killing as
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: many of these trollocks over as long a period of
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: time as we can, like your city is now my sandbox.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: And then we get the fun contradiction of like, well
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: but if the enemy knows what we're doing, because then
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: we have to change it. And it's you know, you
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: should have abandoned the city, Yearly. The city is not
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: where a general should be making a final stand.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: No, it's a trap. It's a death trap, right like,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: and if rand hadn't come for him, he would have
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: died there.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, sometimes being in a death trap
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: and holding is victory. That's one of the really weird,
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: screwed up things about mass war.
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: But remember the Alamo.
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I wish people would actually remember the Alamo and not
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: just remember to say remember the Alamo, but whatever, would.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: You want to give us a lesson on the Alamo?
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: We lost. It's not a rousing victory. The losers were
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: pulled out from under desks in their pisted soak trousers
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: going is jolly. It's horrible and stupid. They shouldn't have
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: been fighting that. They were fighting to make the Republic
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: of Texas an independent country that had slavery, and Mexico
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: was like, you cannot steal our land to do slavery.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: Fuck all the way off. And then the quote unquote
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: heroes all either died or were pulled out from under
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: desks in pissed up trousers like cowards. And it's it's
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: really hilarious to have people say remember the Alamo, like
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: it's a victory call. And it's like, if you knew
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: a goddamn thing about the Alamo, you would be embarrassed,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: not proud. I don't know much about it, but I
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: know that much. It's very silly.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: I went to Texas. I lived in Texas when I
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: was in middle school or elementary school, element late elementary school,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: early middle school, and the Alamo was drilled into us
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: as a heroic tale. And that's something I had to
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: unlearn as I got older, because the story they tell
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: you is it's a fairy tale. You know, it's a
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: fairy tale of heroes standing up for what's right.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: They specifically wanted an independent nation where they could do slavery,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: free from even the controls of the US government. Like
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: y'all are not heroes. Y'all are embarrassing.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how much deprogramming I had to do once
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: I got older and grew up. I mean, just spending
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: a fair amount of time in my youth in the South, right,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: like southern Virginia, Texas, Mississippi.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: The historical revisionism in that part of the country is
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: its own thing I've had to learn about because I
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: was raised by people who were trying really hard to
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: get to a true version of history, and learning that
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: there are swaths of the country where myth making is
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: actually held up as a virtue rather than as a
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: thing to avoid. Is that was the whole thing for
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: me to learn unto itself. I mean, not that we
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: don't have our myths out here, but just like my
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: specific experience was very much like, let's pull back the
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: curtain on the myth. I was like, surely this is
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: everyone's experience. No, no, it is not.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: And there's a big difference between simplifying history so that
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: a child can understand it and like maybe you might
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: not be able to get all the nuance in for
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: the younger generations versus just complete myths.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, for sure.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: Fouji's asking me if Virginia counts as the South. Okay,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: complicated question, right, because Virginia definitely has.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: Regions West Virginia, Best Virginia.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, some of those regions counts of the South. Most
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: of them do not. Right, So there's the area near
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: DC that is certainly not part of the South, right,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: That is, that is urban area outside of DC. And
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: there is Hampton Roads, which is coastal Virginia Beach Norfolk,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: that area that is Old Blood south right, that has manors,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: that has plantations, that has dynasties. And then you head
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: west towards West Virginia, and that's Appalachian south, right, because
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: essentially that's the bleedover from the Appalachian Mountains. That's there's
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: the valley right before you get up into the Appalachians
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: into West Virginia, before you go into that transition from
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: valley to mountainous And as you know, geography changes culture,
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: right and so yeah, and that's that's very Bible Belt
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: south right right.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got your the layers of when and where
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: did people initially settle, and when and where did people
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: find their economic fortunes in the agrarian versus urban sectors
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: and the speed at which people could move their goods
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: and move themselves. Really yeah, it's complicated, but yeah, anytime
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: for people who are not in the US, anytime you
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: see two states with the same name, you know, like
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: north and South, East and West. One has a direction,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: one doesn't have a direction. You can blame the Civil War,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: and you know one of those is going to be
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: more the South than the others. In North Dakota. South
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Dakota is a little you know, far away from all that.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: But it's the fact that those divisions exist. Is still
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: a knock on effect of the Civil War slavery debate thing.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Kansas and Arkansas. Yeah, yeah, for sure, Arkansas for those
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: of you.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we we like to pretend that the Civil
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: War was a long time ago, but in fact it
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: is still just looming over every single thing in every
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: single state constantly.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago, and we've passed so many
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: laws since then that kind of keep it going.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: Like we've never really finished the cultural part of the war.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: We signed paperwork, rich guys signed papers to say the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: war was over, but we didn't actually resolve the true issue,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: which is are we a racial caste society and that's
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: good or not.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know, there's a lot of mythmaking in
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: the South about how to interpret that history and its
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: implications on the present. Like one of the most interesting
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: things I learned about all of that in the last
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: you know, ten years, was that all those Confederate monuments
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: that everyone likes to get their panties and a bunch
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: about very very few of them were put up anywhere
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: near to the Civil War. A lot of them were
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: put up like what two and a half three generations later,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: as part of a like revisionist thing that has nothing
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: to do with the immediate aftermath of the.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: War, a closer to the Jim Crow.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Era stuff exactly exactly, And it's that was one of
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: those like these aren't even actual Confederate monuments, like in
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: the sense that they were like from the Confederacy, Like
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: they're not.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: And the other thing, I mean, like there's tons of
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: ignoring the racism that was going on in the North
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: and is still going on in the North, right like
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: the I mean the fact that like I you know,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: Portland was a sundowntown until the nineteen.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Fifties, Oregon was the sundown state.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Down sundown state, right, Like it just crazy shit like
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: that that like there was there was nowhere that was safe.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: Oh no, for sure.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: It's just uh just different levels, different levels of dangerous.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Well, and the different kinds of myths about it, right,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Like the myth in the South is that everyone was
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: fine with slavery. The myth in the North is that
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: everyone was not fine with slavery, right like, right, it's
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: a very different kind of myth. And I consider myself northern,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: even tho obviously I'm Western, which is a whole separate thing.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: But you know, my people have always aligned themselves with
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: the northern casts in this division, so this is actually
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: not true. On the genealogy, I got people on both sides.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: I have not done the genealogy. I do know though,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: that my father's side did come over from Italy, like
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: I think my father's first generation immigrant, right like or
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: a posts like he was the first generation born in
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: the US, if that makes sense.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the firstborn generation. Yeah, that is
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: my father in law. No, that is my husband. My
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: father was born at mcfather and was born in England.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: That was my great grandfather was the first. That was
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: my most recent immigrant. But no, my mom's family in particular,
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: we've done the genealogy, and they were some very poor, poor,
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: poor farmers that have just been trickling on over to
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: the US since before it was the US, and some
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: of them aligned with the Southern cause in all of that,
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: like managed to have one or two enslaved people and
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: took up arms to defend slavery. Like they're there. It's
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: not most of them, but there's definitely a couple of
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: branches that you know, ultimately joined up with them warm
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: in church and ended up doing weirder things than slavery.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: But you can't control who you're related to, unfortunately.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, honestly, I don't mind. It's fascinating to
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: just be like every piece of this story of American history.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: I actually have an ancestor, like playing an on the
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: ground role, and I can like attempt to if I
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: can get into what that person experienced, it sort of
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: helps me build the whole scene around them. So I
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: actually kind of enjoy having a really broad spread of
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: American history in my family tree, even if sometimes it's like, oh,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: I'm descended from slave. I was just like, well, what
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: every white person in the US is descended from people
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: who upheld segregation and slavery and all of that, Like,
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: we're all descended from people who were fine with it.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: At some point, I like putting a date and a
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: place onto that and saying, Okay, let me try to
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: get into this particular town as a microcosm of the state,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: as a microcosm of the country, as a microcosm of
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: the dec But no, you can't control it. You can
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: simply be like, no, those birthdays don't line up. I
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: don't actually think that's my ancestor anyway.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: Whereas I've looked more at my own personal experience, just
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: with living in so many places growing up and even
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: after growing up, Right, Like, the job market has kind
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: of bounced me around quite a bit in my adult life.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: And my father was also had trouble hanging on to
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: work for more than about three years at a time.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: He usually was able to bounce to a better job
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: every time he moved jobs, but it was frequently, you know,
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: every three two to three years. We moved cities, right,
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: And so I've lived in many places all over the
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: United States, and I feel like I have a pretty
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: good grasp of not necessarily everything about cultures, but some
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: of the differences that exist in the different regions. And
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: part of that is time stamped as well, right, because
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: I lived in certain places in the eighties and nineties,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: and certainly they've changed since then. So you know, I'm like,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: i can tell you all about the Houston in the
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: nineties or the suburbs of Houston in the nineties, but
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that it's very not relevant anymore.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: I Mean, the more shit changes, the more it stays
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: the same.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: Right. There is that as well, yes, And and there
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: is a reason why you will never catch me back
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: in Texas. I couldn't stand the heat back then, and
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: that was before twenty years of global warming. Anyway, we have,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: we've strayed way off topic as we've ended this chapter.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Because I think we've ended this chapter.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: Do you think you think we're done?
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: I think I think we're done. I think we're done.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: So we turn off recording.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you everyone for listening.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: Recording is on, This recording is on. Yeah, please no,
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: don't burn it. I want to do this chapter. I
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: just want to do it.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: I know, just get it. We just need to get
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: it over with. RiPP it off like a band aid.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: Oh thanks to all the live folks for wishing me
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: a happy birthday. I appreciate that.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the recorded folks, wish is that the happy birthday?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: Because apparently that's the only way I'll remember that it's
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: his birthdays. I would think it a whole thing on
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: the podcast because I forgot that it was your birthday.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: But you know, I also forget when my anniversary is
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: so like. It's not like I'm specially hating on you.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: I'm just bad with calendars.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: Dude. Never too, she keeps getting our anniversary wrong and
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, I've had to correct her so many times. Okay,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: So this is a funny story. Shortly after we were together,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: we together for like two years or something like this,
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: one of her friends wanted to get us like an
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: anniversary gift. I forget and got us one of these
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: little light up things and it has the night sky
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: printed on it from the night that you do Okay,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: printed off right. So she goes to every and says,
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: so when did you and Seth meet? And she was
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: off by a year, And so we had this plact
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: that has the starry night from a year after we met.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: You know, we'll call it a year and a day
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: to really cement it.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: You know, Well, because we met on Thanksgiving right on
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: a specific year, but Thanksgiving change dates, so our anniversary
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: is a certain date because Thanksgiving moves. She always thinks
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: it's on Thanksgiving, but it's technically not most years.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: Sure, Oh that's funny.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: And so I'm always like, no, remember it's the twenty sixth,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: it's not Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving was the twenty seventh or whatever. Yeah,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: this year, so that's cute. She forgets. Anyway, we joke
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: sometimes that I am very much that she's the man
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: of the relationship because I have to do the cooking
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: and the cleaning and the longer and I remember all
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: the dates and no one has ever black. I see
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: those like videos of women being like, oh my god,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: I can't believe my husband left out the shoe or
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: left clothes on the floor, left this mess for me,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, well, well my wife does that.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: It's almost like gender roles are dumb. Yeah, stereotypes are
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: only kind of grounded in true.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: I'm certainly the uh the yang yinta her yang. If
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: you want to go into the wheel of time statements
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: in terms of the clean you know, someone has to
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: clean and someone has to create chaos, right, Because if
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I've lived with someone where we both clean and we
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: just live in this sterile place that neither one of
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: us would touch, right, and it didn't feel like we
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: lived there, and it was kind of awful. And if
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: you're both messy, the mess just piles up. But if
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: one person's creating the chaos and the other one's cleaning
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: it up, it's like these two opposing forces that actually
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: bounce each other out and then frustrate the fuck out
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: of you. But it's more effective, I feel like in
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: that way.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Brandon and I have really split up which
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: messes we make or creating We like really even figure
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: it out, Like witch chores. I'm like, look, I will
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: clean the kitchen so that you can destroy it and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: can absolute mess at it, like that is what we
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: are doing for sure. But then when it comes to
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: stuff that has to do with like more harsh chemicals
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: or being really tall or whatever, I'm just like, yeah,
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna just sort of defer that chore until you
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: get tired of it being dirty and deal with it. Yeah,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I and I. You know, I'm terrible at managing money,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: which translates and I'm also terrible at managing all the
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: pantry stuff. Right. That man has to have the whole
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: map of what food we are bringing into the house
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: and like how we are affording it and managing it.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: Like I will help you keep the kitchen clean, but
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: you are in charge of making the mess. The mess
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: is your business. I just clean it.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's sort of my thing. Never buys the food, right,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: because she has very specific a lot of things where
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: she's like, I can't eat that because of its ingredients,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: and so she sort of does the heavy lifting on
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: knowing what she can bring into the house. But then
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: for me it's it's like, Okay, whatever's in the house
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: I can cook with, right, and that's safe for me.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: And so that's sort of how we divide up that
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: that level of labor is she buys safe ingredients, and
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: then I create things that we enjoy. Although she's done
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: far more cooking than when we first started dating, mostly
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: just because it's like she sees me do something and
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: she's like, oh, I can do that, you know, and
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: then right.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Nothing like an encouraging example, Yeah, parallel play, Hey, how
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: can you remind me how you did that? Can you
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: stand up by elbow and like tell me how the
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: smell needs to translate to that?
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah no. And she's become a very very
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: good cook, right, that's one of those skills that I
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: was very happy to help her learn.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. No, Brandon's helped me learn to cook a
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: lot in that way. I could never cook before. But
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: like just yeah, if he's there and I'm watching enough times,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: like yeah, I mean I could take over one little step,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: I could take over two little steps, and pretty soon
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: I'm doing half the cooking at least, you know, until
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: that hyper focus runs out right.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: Well, and the other thing that she's done is she's
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: become a much better baker than I ever was, right,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: because she's become being gluten free. It's very difficult to
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: get big goods, and if you do get them, they're
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: not always that good, right, And so being capable of
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: making them herself has become like one of her big
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: passions and something she's become very very very very good at.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when you can't find the product you want
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: at the store. The sense of god powers that comes
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: from being able to manifest it the way you want
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: it at home consistently, and oh look at that. It's
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: a lot cheaper and creates a lot less packaging, et cetera,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: et cetera. It's a feeling of power, it's a feeling
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: of real creative power to be able to do that.
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: However, it does lead lead to an excess of baked
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: goods in my house, which does lead to an excess
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: of belly fat. You know, well, I use so many
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: tasty goodies. Have a separate problem. I can't stop myself.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: The food's too good. The amount it's so funny because
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: the weight that I gain because my week is split
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: where I work long days. So the amount of weight
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: that I lose when I'm working because I'm not sitting
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: around the house eating sweet treats versus the amount that
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: I gain every weekend because they balance out, it's pretty good.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: But I can say I wait myself daily so I
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: can see it go up during the weekend and down
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: during the week and I blame I blame never one
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: hundred percent and her bake goods. Yeah.
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: I do think that blaming women is the correct move.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's how I get away with my life,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: right like any otherthing anything wrong with a podcast, like,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: I definitely blame you right percent. Yeah, that's that's why
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: I brought you onto the podcast, because you know, how
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: else could I blame a woman?
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, totally makes sense. I'm glad I
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: could operate an escapegoat for you so you could feel
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: slightly better about yourself in this world where everything's already
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: been handed to you.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you get it, you get it.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: See, No, I understand my place in this world.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: Can we shut the hell up before I get myself
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: in deeper trouble? Cancel Seth, you's a misogynists.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: Well, if you didn't know that by now, I know,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: I know right, No, it's uh, I'm glad. I don't
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: know hardly anyone who could manage to fix their face
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: to say that unironically. Thank you for listening to the
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast. Please rate and review us
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: on your podcast app, and consider supporting us on Patreon
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: for ad free episodes. Watt Spoilers is a production of
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Fox and Raven Media. For more podcasts from Fox and
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: Draven Media, visit our website at Foxendravenmedia dot com.