Latest / Pharmacy Podcast Network / LIVE at RBC 2026 Episode One | Cardinal Health™ CounterTalk™ Podcast

Transcript

LIVE at RBC 2026 Episode One | Cardinal Health™ CounterTalk™ Podcast · Pharmacy Podcast Network

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the global network of podcasters dedicated
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: to the pharmacy profession. Welcome to the Pharmacy Podcast Network.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: The testimonials appearing in this podcast reflect individual experiences and
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: individual results may vary. Cardinal Health does not claim nor
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: should the listener assume that any individual experience recounted in
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: this podcast is representative of what another consumer may experience.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: The Cardinal Health Counter Talk podcast in collaboration with Pharmacy
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Podcast Network is for independent pharmacists to learn about the
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: state of the industry, innovative services and solutions, and the
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: future of pharmacy. Join me, your host, Jason Calori, for
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: conversations with pharmacists, Cardinal Health leaders, and industry experts sharing
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: best practices, discussing industry trends, and showcasing Cardinal Health products
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and services.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: You can subscribe to the Cardinal Health Counter Talk podcast
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you listen to your
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: favorite podcasts. Hey, everybody.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: My name is Corey Huckabee. We're here at CounterTalk Podcast
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Live here in Florida, RBC 2026. I'm here with Saeed Abul-Zahab. Saeed,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I work with you all the time. It's an honor
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to be here with you today.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Likewise, buddy.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Appreciate it, bro. You know, Saeed, you are an accomplished
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: business and healthcare operation executive. You have 20 years of experience,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: leadership across both retail pharmacy and hospitals. As a director
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: of consumer health, today we're going to talk about how
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: pharmacies can maximize MAOTC benefits. You're an expert in this.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and why
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: this is important to you.
• 1:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I appreciate it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: I've had the opportunity to be in healthcare for over
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: 20 years, both on the retail side and then coming
• 2:01
  Speaker 5: over to Cardinal, but keeping the patient at the center
• 2:05
  Speaker 5: of everything we do and ensuring that we're able to
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: deliver the best outcomes for them And then as I've
• 2:10
  Speaker 5: come over to Cardinal, especially with our retail independent space
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: and a lot of our customers, it's how do we
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: enable them to do that as well for their patients.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: So on a personal level, there's a lot there for
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: me as well. And then on a professional level, definitely
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: taking care of our customers to enable them to take
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: care of their patients.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, you yourself have an amazing story to tell
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: around why health care is so important. I appreciate you.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, you shared that last year. Let's talk a
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: little bit about the what and why. So what are
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Medicare Advantage OTC benefits and why is it important to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: our customers and their patients?
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: So Medicare Advantage OTC benefits are benefits that patients do
• 2:52
  Speaker 5: receive as part of their health care plans.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Why is it important is, first and foremost, is awareness.
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: A lot of patients don't know that they have these benefits,
• 3:03
  Speaker 5: but it does unlock a lot of funds that they
• 3:06
  Speaker 5: can use to help overcome some day-to-day challenges and pay
• 3:10
  Speaker 5: for their OTC items. The Medicare Part C plan as
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: a whole provides a lot of other resources as well
• 3:17
  Speaker 5: to overcome challenges each and every day. But also, I
• 3:21
  Speaker 5: believe it helps customers in the long run become more
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: adherent as we overcome.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: Some of those challenges.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: So talk a little bit more about the benefits that
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: are included in this. When you think about how does
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: it increase loyalty for pharmacies, like driving key customers, what
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: does that do for pharmacies?
• 3:38
  Speaker 5: When we think about it, Medicare Part C has a
• 3:42
  Speaker 5: $ 5 billion OTC allowance that goes unused every year out
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: of the roughly $ 7 billion.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: That is available out there. So that's a staggering number.
• 3:52
  Speaker 5: Where the opportunity really lies is how do we help
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: our customers, our retail independent pharmacies and other community pharmacies,
• 4:00
  Speaker 5: get access to accepting those cards so they can better
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: pass those benefits and value of those dollars off to
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: their patients along the way. Access is definitely one of
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: the biggest pain points or opportunities, and we've done a
• 4:12
  Speaker 5: really nice job partnering with a lot of fintech companies
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: to support that and giving our.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Customers access to that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Talk about reimbursement for pharmacies a little bit.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 4:22
  Speaker 5: So pharmacies today, as we all know, are strapped for
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: cash each and every day. Reimbursement is never-ending shrinking. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 5: pharmacies are looking for alternative revenue streams to help grow
• 4:33
  Speaker 5: their revenue as well as their margin along the way.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: And when you think about it, you don't make.
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: A 20% to 40% gross margin on a script anymore.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 4:45
  Speaker 5: So this is a great opportunity to really unlock these dollars.
• 4:48
  Speaker 5: And what's really, really cool about it is they don't
• 4:52
  Speaker 5: have to truly acquire customers.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: They're already in their pharmacy. They just need to unlock
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: that potential.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: So unpack a little bit for us how retail independents
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: are best situated to help their patients, or parents for
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: that matter, optimize these types of benefits.
• 5:09
  Speaker 5: What's really, really cool, I used to always tell back
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: when I was at Walgreens, my pharmacist, we have to
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: out-local the locals. And these are the local independent pharmacies
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: when I was back there, right? Today, I am supporting
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: the local independent pharmacies and they are the backbone of pharmacy.
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: They are in their community. They know their patients.
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: They're well positioned for this because they have that trust
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: with the patient and that relationship. More so, lots of
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: great opportunities legislatively-wise, et cetera, funding from a Medicaid standpoint
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: that is starting to put a lot more dollars and
• 5:45
  Speaker 5: more focus on the Medicare Part C program as Medicaid
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: continues to decline.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Now, Medicare is always confusing to people, right? So let's
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the plans and benefits. Can
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: you give us a breakdown of the four Medicare plans,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: both A, B, C, and D?
• 6:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I call it the alphabet soup of Medicare, right?
• 6:04
  Speaker 5: So if you think about it just at a high level,
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: Part A and B are usually what Medicare patients get.
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: These cover their hospital visits with Part A, their medical
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: visits with Part B. Also, what we're very familiar with
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: on the pharmacy side is Part D, to be able
• 6:22
  Speaker 5: to fill their prescriptions each and every day. But there's
• 6:25
  Speaker 5: also an easy button called Medicare Part C. This covers
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: additional benefits like eye, ear, as well as OTC benefits,
• 6:33
  Speaker 5: including even grocery. So it's a catch-all that I think,
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: hit the easy button, you're capturing your prescription, you're capturing
• 6:42
  Speaker 5: the eye, ear, and OTC as well.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: So, Saeed, is there an average allowance for Medicare Advantage plans,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: and what is the average percent of patients with Medicare
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Advantage Part C plans?
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: Great question.
• 6:55
  Speaker 5: So, on average, customers will receive around $ 400 a year
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: when we look at it statistically.
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Across the U.S.
• 7:02
  Speaker 5: When we think about it today, we have millions of
• 7:05
  Speaker 5: patients on Medicare in general. Out of those patients, 54%
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: of it, so 33 million people roughly on Medicare, 54%
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: of them are enrolled in a Medicare Advantage plan today.
• 7:20
  Speaker 5: A lot of PBMs are hoping this number continues to
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: grow because what we're also finding is it drives loyalty
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: as some of these benefits continue to get used back
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: to the PBM. But we also see that value translate
• 7:31
  Speaker 5: into patient care and pharmacy in.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: The long run. What does calculating your potential mean?
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: So when we think about it, taking a look at
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: your current existing scripts that you fill each and every day,
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: recognizing that on average 35% to 40% of those scripts
• 7:46
  Speaker 5: are Medicare patients, and then capturing 54% of those at
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: $ 400 on average per customer. The reality is that's just
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: the average. That number can substantially grow anywhere to $ 3, 000
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: a year as well.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Wow. So I'm pretty sure you have some really good
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: customer examples that you might want to share with us today.
• 8:07
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: We've had the opportunity to work with so many of
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: our fantastic independents out there. And one customer I had
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: the opportunity to visit, a little bit north of Florida here,
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: they've been doing this program for about five years. But
• 8:21
  Speaker 5: it took them some time as well to evolve. At
• 8:24
  Speaker 5: the beginning, they were roughly doing about maybe $ 2, 000 in
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: OTC benefits across several locations. As they started to focus
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: on some of the framework that we've seen be successful
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: and been an enabler, identifying the patient, cleaning up their
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: PMS system, that's translated to understanding every unique patient's opportunity,
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: the allowance amount, growing their total revenue to roughly $ 20, 000
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: a month across all their locations.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: And they're not done.
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: That's the cool thing. They have a lot more opportunity
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: to go.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. So talk a little bit about the implementation process.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: How does Cardinal Health support a pharmacy implementing this type
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: of program?
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: Well, let me back it up a little bit to
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: how Cardinal Health listens to customers first. So as I
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: joined Cardinal one of the first weeks, during my first
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: week here, we heard feedback from customers saying, hey, we
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: want support to get access to Medicare Advantage OTC benefits,
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: and what's Cardinal Health doing about it?
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: At the time, there wasn't much.
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: So we made it our mission and our purpose to
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: truly be healthcare's trusted partner. And we went out and
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: we built the right relationships. So we've done this in
• 9:39
  Speaker 5: a few different ways. First is we've provided our customers
• 9:42
  Speaker 5: access to accepting the cards by establishing relationships with Cardinal
• 9:47
  Speaker 5: and the FinTech customers. The big players in the market
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: out there today is the ProHealth Network, the Income Group,
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: Nations Benefits, and ever more.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: There's a lot of other.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Ones as well, but these are some of the larger
• 10:00
  Speaker 5: ones that carry the bigger PBMs in the country. And
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: as a result of that, we've also provided easy access
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: for customers to be able to go online with them,
• 10:09
  Speaker 5: get signed up, and that way we can even track
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: them and support them down the road. We've also built
• 10:15
  Speaker 5: out a playbook that they can help train their staff,
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: enable this program within their store, implement it, because execution
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: is always the key to a successful program. So they
• 10:26
  Speaker 5: have every step along the way, not only from just
• 10:29
  Speaker 5: setting it up, but how to even inspire and incentivize
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: their staff to truly get behind the program as well.
• 10:36
  Speaker 5: And then the last step that we definitely took is
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: how do we activate the patient? At the end, we
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: can build everything up, but if we can't get the
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: patient coming in through the door, that's where the magic happens.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, 100%. I appreciate the insight there. So how does
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Cardinal help? pharmacies operationalize this? What type of support do
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: we get just kind of past even what you just
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: talked about?
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so we actually have launched a Mantis page today
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: that has all the resources that are available to them.
• 11:07
  Speaker 5: It has information about the program for any customer that
• 11:10
  Speaker 5: is just looking to figure out what is it all
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: about and what's the opportunity. We've given them direct sign-up
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: access to all the FinTech customers, plus documentation on how
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: to choose the right FinTech customer to to support them
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: within their store based on their insurance plan. The playbook,
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: as I mentioned, with very specific details. We've even taken
• 11:30
  Speaker 5: it a step further to identify these, develop a repository
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: that has the specific bin number that they use to
• 11:41
  Speaker 5: fill prescriptions each and every day. and align it to
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: the contract and the plan IDs that are used on
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: the Medicare side to identify the plan with the dollar
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: amount and the.
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: Frequency that's available.
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: So in reality, a pharmacy can actually go through their
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: PMS system and find every unique patient and how much
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: money they have available to better educate them.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. So we talked about the what and why.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: We talked about why you're passionate about this, right? We
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: talked about the plans and the benefits and some customer examples.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: If a listener is interested in Medicare Advantage OTC, whether
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to enroll or learn more, what do they do next?
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: Well, we're here at RBC today, right?
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: Stop by the Medicare Advantage booth. We've brought in our
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: fintech partners. These guys have been phenomenal, great partners with us.
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: They're going to help our customers get signed up today.
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: We've also brought in all the right resources to help
• 12:43
  Speaker 5: educate them. We've not only provided the Ventus page, but
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: we've also even, our suppliers are here today as well.
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: And these guys have been foundational to the success of
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: this program. I would be remiss if I didn't share this.
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: But these guys have put a lot of funding behind
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: this program to truly activate the patient through marketing resources.
• 13:02
  Speaker 5: And our marketing teams work very well with them to
• 13:05
  Speaker 5: develop great resources at every touchpoint that the patient interacts with.
• 13:10
  Speaker 5: if it's in the drive-thru, if it's at the counter,
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: if it's still right at the front of the door,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: or they're driving by, we can catch them, right? So
• 13:18
  Speaker 5: we're going to help you along the way in every phase,
• 13:21
  Speaker 5: but definitely check out our booth, visit our Ventus page.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: There's more information. Our sales teams are there to support
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: and consult.
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: Along the way and be able to tailor it to
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: every unique story.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about it from just your perspective. Why
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: is this so important to you? And why is it
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: important to the pharmacies? What drives your passion behind supporting
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: this type of venture?
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: Well, think of it this way. Every senior is somebody's
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: parent or relative. And everyone goes through unique challenges. Taking
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: care of them, making sure they have access to the resources,
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: information about the resources. As you mentioned earlier, Medicare is
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: very confusing. That's why I call it the alphabet soup, right?
• 14:05
  Speaker 5: So you don't know what's in it sometimes until you
• 14:07
  Speaker 5: try to taste it. But the reality is we need
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: to help them get educated about what their benefits are.
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: It's not as easy as you and I picking our
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: commercial plans each and every year.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: We only have limited options. They have a wide opportunity.
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: And sometimes those plans are not the right plans for
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: their unique situations. So working with the pharmacies, working with
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: different brokers, et cetera, will help them along the way.
• 14:33
  Speaker 5: But also from a pharmacy standpoint, they are also challenged
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: with helping that patient become adherence. So if we think
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: of it from the clinical side of it, when we
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: look at adherence and the challenges that are faced with adherence,
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: there's three main barriers that tend to show up. Forgetfulness, transportation,
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: or cost. Let's help them take care of one of those.
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: Instead of making the trade-off between paying for their copay
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: or paying for grocery or OTC that they need, They
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: don't have to do that when they have these funds available. Awesome.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So thank you for being here today. Appreciate your time.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Thanks to all the listeners. Thanks for everybody for being here.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: And we will see you soon.
• 15:18
  Speaker 5: Awesome.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: You're listening to Cardinal Health's Live at RBC 2026 Recap Show.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Stay tuned for the next interview starting now.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: We're here at Cameratalk Podcast Live. here in RBC Orlando 2026.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: My name is Corey. I'm your host today. We're here
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: with Rita Shula. We're going to talk about what independent
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: pharmacists need to know in regards to caregiver support. Rita,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you're a nationally recognized leader in caregiver policy, research, and practice.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: You're dedicated your life to ensuring that the voices of
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: family caregivers shape the system designed to support them. Your
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: work spans large-scale initiatives, including a multimillion-dollar grant to integrate
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: caregiver support into health systems and the development of practical
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: tools that help healthcare professionals better engage with family caregivers. Rita,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about yourself and what do
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: you want the listeners to know about you?
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, Corey, thanks for having me. Really
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: great to be here among something that feels like home
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: to me, actually. I'll flip my experience starting with my
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: childhood memories. I was growing up in the summers. My
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: grandmother was a pharmacist. worked in an independent pharmacy, and
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: it was in Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. It was
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: in a row home that upstairs were the physicians and
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: downstairs was the pharmacy. And, you know, I look back
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: and I think about, I knew what a caregiver was
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: before I even knew what a caregiver was based on
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: my experience watching my grandmother interact with her customers. And
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: so I think that's really important that we talked about
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: our lived experiences and how that really fuels what we do.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: And that's my story. As that child growing up, watching
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: my grandmother interact with her customers, asking them questions, helping
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: them really understand what the doctor said and what that
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: pharmacy said experience should be really defined a lot. Fast
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: forward to many, many years later when I became the
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: caregiver for her. And then shortly after she passed away,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I became the caregiver for my mother, which really defined
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: my caregiving experience. I cared for my mother who lived
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: with frontal temporal dementia for 15 years. And I was
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: a sandwiched caregiver. I had two small children who were
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: born into that experience. And that journey really helped me
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: understand what caregivers today are really dealing with, from managing
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: medications to managing a misdiagnosis of Alzheimer's when it was
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: actually three years later, recognizing it was something different. And
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: really trying to figure out how to do it all
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: at one time, You know, caring for two small children
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: and then caring for an adult who was fully dependent
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: on me and really helping to navigate that journey.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: Rita, how did all this lead you to the role
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you have at AARP now?
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: It was experiencing the broken systems. within community, within health care,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: within long-term care, really recognizing that I didn't know what
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I was doing. The one thing that I knew was
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: that I was my mother's daughter. I was the granddaughter
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: to my grandmother who cared for me for so many years.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: And it was now my responsibility to care for them.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: But I kept getting tripped up by the brokenness of
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: the systems that I had to navigate. And so once I,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever fully figured out how
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: to navigate them, but once my grandmother and my mom transitioned,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: I realized that I had to do more to really
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: try to ensure wherever I could, even if it's one individual,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: hopefully more, didn't have to experience some of those same things.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a quote in here that says, we
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: often talk about patients in health care But your research
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: suggests pharmacists may be interacting with caregivers just as often
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: as patients. Talk a little bit about when a pharmacy
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: looks across the counter today, what are the chances they're
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: actually serving a caregiver instead of a patient?
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. And, I have to say,
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: I think pharmacists do a magnificent job of this. I
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: think the very nature of being a pharmacist in community,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: you're interacting with individuals. And I want to say, I
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: don't know if it's something that's taught or just something
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: that's natural, but you're engaging in these conversations and you're
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: getting to know folks as they come through, right? As
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: they come to your counter. We know that approximately half
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: of all prescriptions at the community pharmacy counter are picked
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: up by a family caregiver. And so it's really that conversation.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: It's talking to that individual and saying, Are you here
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: for yourself or are you picking this up for mom
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: or dad or husband or whomever that might be? And
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I think that's an understanding of the interaction and the
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: different types of individuals, namely family caregivers, that you're interacting with.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Rita, what do you think the pharmacy owners should understand
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: about the economic impact that caregivers have on their business?
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, when you look at the role of
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: a family caregiver and all of the things that they're managing,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: there are a couple of facts here I want to share.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: So we know that family caregivers spend approximately $ 7, 200 out
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: of pocket every year. Now, all of that is not
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: necessarily on medications, but it may be on durable goods
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: and other things that a pharmacy may sell. I know
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: myself as a family caregiver, especially sandwiched, and I know
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: we'll talk a little bit about that. I was in
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: there buying all the things for all of the people, right?
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And I really needed support in helping to navigate that.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: So caregivers are coming out of pocket on a daily basis,
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: really looking for ways to support and ensure that the
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: people that they're caring for have what they need. And
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I think it's important to understand that because sometimes when
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: we talk about family caregivers, especially if you're coming at
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: it from a clinical or clinician perspective, is that you're
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: thinking they're this niche group, right? They're not a niche group.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: They're in front of you all the time. They're getting
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: medications for themselves and they're picking up prescriptions and other
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: things for the people around them too.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it just, I mean, highlights why caregivers are
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: such a valuable and loyal customer segment, right?
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: So when people hear the word caregiver, many pictures, people
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: kind of just probably have this mental picture of an
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: older spouse caring for an aging partner. How different is
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: that reality today? Yeah.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: You know, I'll say it's not just different. It's inclusive of, right?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: There still is that older adult that's caring for a
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: spouse or partner. But of those 63 million people, so
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: 63 million people are providing care to individuals 18 and up.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: and who are dealing with medically complex care and needs.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I would say that you have to also recognize that
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: these individuals are sometimes younger, right? We know that one
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: in three is under 50. So too often, and if
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: you're this person that is looking out and saying, oh,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: you're not a caregiver when you see a younger person,
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: that's a myth. You know, when we're looking at individuals
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: under the age of 50, we're talking about individuals in
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: their 40s, 30s, 20s. And think about where you were
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: at those different life stages, right, and what you were doing.
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: And so now, in addition to that life that you're managing,
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: you're managing the care of an older adult or a
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: child that has medically complex needs. We also know that
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: three in five are women. So the majority of family
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: caregivers are women. But I say that because it is fact,
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: but I also want folks to recognize that many caregivers
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: are men and that there's a different way sometimes that
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: male caregivers need to be recognized. There's a different way
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: that they may provide that care and different needs that
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: they have. There's a saying everyone in the field says
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: is that for every caregiver you've seen, you've seen one caregiver.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: So it's really important as that retail leader to recognize
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: the diversity of in the care and also opportunity for
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: yourself in meeting those various needs.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that. So Rita, you mentioned
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: this a couple of times, the sandwich generation, right? And
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I had never heard of that, right? Until now. Now,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: when I think of sandwich, I think of, you know,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I'm hungry, right? One statistic really stood out is nearly
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a third of caregivers are simultaneously caring for children and
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: aging parents, right? So help us understand what life looks
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: like for that particular person.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: It's a lot. If you think about it, I'll use
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: my own experience. I mean, I was caring for a
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: mom in her early 60s. And I was at one
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: point pregnant and then had a child while I was
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: caring and then pregnant again and had a child. So
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: at any given moment, I had a newborn and a
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: two year old. while I was also navigating and paying
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: for that elder care, right? I also, when you think
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: about it from a consumer perspective, the reality is that
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: if you looked in my cart, you would see a
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: myriad of things. I think I have a picture that
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: just stands out to me, and it was a box
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: of adult incontinence supplies and a box of diapers for
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: my child. And so when you look at that from
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: an affordability mindset, but you also look at that from
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: an emotional mindset, because I was in my 30s and
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: the thought that I would be carrying at both ends,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: it was really challenging for me. Right. And so you
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: have these individuals who are managing things at both ends
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: while also trying to live their own life. grow in
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: their careers and they're sacrificing so much, you have to
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: imagine the complexity that comes with that and the important
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: role that clinicians, pharmacists, and retailers play in supporting those individuals.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting that you mentioned that, Pedro. What a stark contrast, right,
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: between those two different diapers. You mentioned just now the complexity.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Caregiving isn't just becoming more common, right? It's not something
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: that just popped up. It's always kind of been there.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: but is becoming more intense. So what are you seeing
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: in terms of complexity of care that people are providing
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: now at home compared to even five, 10 years ago?
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really great question. And I think it
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: can provide another visual as well. I think as a
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: pharmacist or as a retailer, you see that individual in
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: a snapshot, right? They're coming into your store. They're coming
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: into your pharmacy for a purchase. What you don't see
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: is what they're doing at home. And we know that
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: caregivers on average now are providing 27 hours a week
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: of care. That's a lot of time. That's more than
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: a part-time job, right? We know that 45% are engaged
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: in high-intensity care. So they're doing more and they're doing
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: it over a longer period of time. And much of
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: that is complex care. And so again, oftentimes when we
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: think of caregivers, you see them in that moment. So
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: you may see them at a doctor's visit, or you
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: may see them in your pharmacy after that visit. What
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: you're not seeing them at home is that being at
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: home and doing things such as insulin, such as really
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: challenging wound care, specialty diets, even things such as changing catheters.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: I remember I was doing some care for my uncle,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: and we had to learn about changing catheters.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: What?
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Like, I never would have thought of that ever. But increasingly,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: we see that caregivers are doing this each and every day.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: And 50% of those caregivers are saying, we don't know
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: how to do this. I might have been shown in
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: the hospital, but guess what? That was like 10 minutes.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I'm home now.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And it's uncomfortable too, right?
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: You're doing something for a family member that you thought
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: you would never do.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean, we talked to, speaking of male caregivers,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: we've talked to male caregivers that say, I love my mom,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: but there was nothing more humbling for them than than
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: to have to give their mom a bath and nothing
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: more humbling for that mother who was now reliant on
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: her child, on her son to do that. And it
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: could be flipped the other way.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: And so, again, it's the these caregivers are managing all
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: of this complexity of care. They're navigating challenging systems and
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: they're dealing with the emotional strain that comes with all
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: of that.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny that you, not funny that you mentioned that,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: but I had to deal with that about two years
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: ago with my mom before she passed away for cancer.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And I never thought I would have to do that,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: but I could tell my mom was embarrassed, right? You
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: don't see that aspect sometimes. So this leads me to
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: a really important question. If caregivers are taking on more
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: clinical responsibilities, what would pharmacists need to be doing differently
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: to support that?
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: You know, as pharmacists are able to recognize what that
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: looks like, It's ensuring that that caregiver has everything that
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: they may need in order to provide that care. And
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: part of that might even be recognizing, letting that person
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: know that you recognize the complexities. of this. And so
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: what would be great, and I have to say, maybe
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: I'm biased, but I have to say that my interactions
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: with pharmacists have always been good. They are the one
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: group of individuals that even in their rush state. I mean,
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: we have to be honest that depending on where you go,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: pharmacists do not have a lot of time to do this.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: So I'm saying all of this with that recognition, but
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: it's that eye contact and it's that recognition from them
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: that I know you're doing a lot. These five medications,
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: this is a lot. Let me take a moment. Let's
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: walk through this. Do you have any questions on X, right?
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: Because I... I'm not the pharmacist, so I don't necessarily
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: know about that interaction, but you know about that interaction.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: So is there something that you can do to give
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: me a heads up about something I need to be
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: looking for? And also, this is a lot for you
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: to manage. Are you doing okay? Have you taken your
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: blood pressure legally, right? Are you taking care of yourself too?
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: And so these are things that I think when educated
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: can become part of of a natural flow of conversation.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: So it's not like I'm saying you need to spend
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: 10 minutes with this family member over here taking care
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: of them. It's a natural flow in things that pharmacists
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: are doing every day. You're engaging with these individuals on
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: these various medications.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Rita, how does a pharmacist get more information on how
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: to address this?
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: So AARP has a number of resources for pharmacists and
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: others that are really looking to either learn more about
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: caregivers themselves or to give information to caregivers. So we
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: have a number of free pamphlets and other resources that
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: can go on your shelves. that when I'm that caregiver
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: and I'm coming up to get the prescription, guess what?
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I know this is a shameless plug, but you have
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: ARPV sources right there. And some of those include things
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: like a HomeFit guide. We know, again, that many family
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: caregivers are either going into a parent or other person's
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: home to care for them, Or bringing them into their
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: own home. How do we make the home safer? The
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: other thing that we do or that we have are
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: state-based guides. So we talk about resources, but where can
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I find these resources? And so at aarp.org forward slash caregiving,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: you can find resources according to your state. Another thing
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: that we have is a financial workbook. And we highly
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: recommend this to our family caregivers because, as I mentioned,
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: caregiving comes at a cost, a financial cost, among others,
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: among other things. And so being able to navigate what
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: that looks like and try to predict. And then the
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: other one that we have is a caregiving guide. Many
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: people don't call themselves caregivers. I never did. And so
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: this guide really helps you to think about the things
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: that are going to come up on this caregiving journey
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: and how you can be better prepared, build a team,
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: talk better, have a better conversation with clinicians, pharmacists, and
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: others that you come into contact with. So we do
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: have a plethora of resources.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. You know,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: as someone who has been both a caregiver and a
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: policy leader, What do you wish a pharmacist would have
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: said to you early on in your career or in your,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: I guess, your care journey?
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: Again, I have to say I've really always had very
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: good interactions with pharmacists. I think that what's really important, again,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: is having that. that natural conversation to ask an individual
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: how they're doing or what their needs may be. So
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: when you walk into a pharmacy, there may be, you know,
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: a section of the counter that says, if you have questions,
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: go over here. I'm probably not going to do that, right?
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: I don't want everybody looking at me while I'm, oh,
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: she has the question. She doesn't know what she's doing.
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: How can you engage and interact with that individual, especially
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: when you see things pop up? I go back to
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: a memory of my grandmother, and now that I know
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: what it is, I knew what she was doing. But
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: more often than not, I would hear her say, Did Dr. So-and-so,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: actually his name was Dr. John, did Dr. John talk
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: to you about some side effects of these two medications?
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: And more often than not, the individual would say no. Now,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: maybe he did and they forgot. But my grandmother took
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: it upon herself to say, this is something that you
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: need to look out for. And so it's those small
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: things that really could impact somebody greatly. And it helps
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: caregivers to feel seen and loyal. Right. You want that
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: individual to keep coming back to you.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: And that caregiving pharmacy pharmacist relationship. I think, is one
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: based on loyalty. If I know you have my back,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: if I know you're going to be there to care
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: for me, if I know that you have the products
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: in your store that I need, I'm going to keep
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: coming back to you.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: You know, that leads into a really good question. When
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: you think about the hidden caregiver, you have so many
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: people that are caring for family members at this time
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: that will never identify themselves as such. How can pharmacists
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: recognize that and start a conversation like, The question is,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: is this for you or someone you're caring for? Why
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: is that so powerful?
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Because it helps that individual feel seen. And I think
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: it also helps that individual just think about things. You know,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: so often as a caregiver, you're managing so many things
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: at one time that you don't necessarily take or have
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: the time to stop and think through things. But if
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: someone in a position, not of authority, but someone in
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: a position that can help you and support you, ask
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: you these types of questions, you're going to stop for
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: a second. And I'll tell you, if somebody asked me
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: that question, I would likely say, I actually don't know
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: what I need, you know? But you asking me is
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: making me think about that. I think so often, and
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate this question from you, So often we hear, well,
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: caregivers need to ask. They need to tell people what
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: they need. They don't know what they need, right? And
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: the more that we can help pull it out, draw
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: it out of an individual, you may bring up something
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: that they hadn't even thought about that will make a
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: huge difference in their life.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Talk a little bit about the sandwich generation
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: caregiver need. Let's talk about that. If you're serving a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: sandwich generation type caregiver, What specific needs should pharmacies be
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: prepared to address with those people?
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love this question because I think it really
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: gets to looking at the individual that is caring for
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: a multi-generational household. And so if you think about the
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: different conditions that people are living with within different generations
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: or age groups, you could, as a caregiver, if you're
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: helping a caregiver, you could potentially be helping that individual
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: with medications for COPD for their older adult, ADHD for
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: their younger child. You, that caregiver, may be needing something
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: because you might be experiencing perimenopause or menopause. So think
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: about all of the conditions if you're caring for someone
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: under 18 all the way through 80s or more. And
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: so as that individual, you're not only maybe managing five
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: prescriptions for your mother, you're also managing potentially two or
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: three for yourself and maybe a few for your children. Okay.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: And we know how difficult it can be to make
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: sure everybody is staying on schedule. And so you, as
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: that pharmacist, you play a really important role in helping
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: them navigate that. I think the other thing is that
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: family caregivers are busy. They don't have time to go
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: into multiple stores all the time. So if you have
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: a retail business, How can you make it easier for
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: that caregiver, in addition to medications, to get as many
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: of the things that they need in one place?
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Rita, this place is filled with retail independent
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: pharmacists right now. So there's a tremendous amount of pressure
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: right now on caregivers and independent pharmacists. So why should
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: a retail independent pharmacist view caregiver support not only as
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: the right thing to do, but as a smart business strategy?
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, a couple of points on that. I
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: really go back to the point of this caregiver who's
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: probably going to be loyal to you is bringing a
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: multi-generational household. So you're not going to have this customer
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: for just a day or a week or a month
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: or a year. You're going to have them for multiple
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: years if you are ensuring that they're getting their needs met.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: I think the other thing is that they're coming in
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: a lot, right? You're not going to just see them
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: once a month. You're seeing these individuals weekly, monthly. So
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: you're building a relationship with them and they're looking to you.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: you to be there for what they need, to tell
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: them what they need. So think about the opportunities that
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: come with that and being able to grow your business
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: for them. I think the other thing that's really important,
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: AARP recently put out a longevity economy outlook this summer.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: And Again, it's something that people don't think about when
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: they think about 50 and up, right? When they think
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: about individuals who are 50 and older. One or two
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: points from that. The first is healthcare is the leading
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: driver of long-term economic growth among adults 50 and older.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: And who sits in the middle of healthcare? Pharmacists, right?
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: I think the other piece is that we know that
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: pharmacists-led follow-ups after hospital discharge, they actually reduce 30-day readmissions
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: from 22% to 16%. So think about the power that
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: comes with what you're being able to offer these individuals
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: to be able to prevent someone from having to go
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: back into the hospital to be able to support that
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: caregiver and the care of that individual at home is
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: a tremendous opportunity, but it's a tremendous responsibility as well. Yeah.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Rita. So as I was reading through this earlier,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: I saw this statement, Monday morning actions. So if you're
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: speaking directly to an independent pharmacy, say an owner or
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: someone that works in one, they're listening today. What's the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: simplest thing they can start doing on Monday morning? And
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: what does that mean?
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what it means is that you can
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: ask simple questions. So, again, someone comes to your counter,
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: is this for you or is this for someone you're
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: caring for? Help that be a conversation starter because nine
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: times out of ten, I would say that that individual
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: may say it's for my brother who is living with
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: such and such. And, oh, then I'm having to manage
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: this and I'm really challenged. So it just becomes a
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: natural conversation. And you begin to build loyalty with that
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: individual because you showed that you cared with one question.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: We don't need 20 minutes. It's just one question that
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: you can ask somebody. I think the other thing that's
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: really important, family caregivers struggle with the synchronization of medication.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: And as I talked about in a number of different examples,
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: those individuals, those caregivers really need help. So are there
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: systems that you can suggest? Are there insights that you
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: can give them on how to better manage? Can you
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: even ask them, are they struggling with that, so you
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: can get an idea of how you can be better
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: supportive of them?
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: How do you train the staff?
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: I know there are things such as a lot of professions,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: pharmacists included, use things such as CEUs. I would love
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: to see more opportunities, again, for specific CEU courses that
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: show pharmacists in particular how to better communicate with family caregivers.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: I mean, again, I think it's important for us to
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: recognize the tremendous strength that independent pharmacists and others are
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: under when we're asking them to do more than what
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: their given job may be. But it's not more. I'd
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: love to see education to help them see how it's
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: a part of, right? It's not in addition to. It's
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: a part of what you do. And it's also making
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: things easy, right? So if you have a pamphlet, whether
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: it's an A or B pamphlet, or something that another
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: organization develops, I think it's really important to have something
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: to point somebody to, right? So you're not having to be,
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: you know, the answer to it all. You can point
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: them to a resource. Your role initially is really to
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: engage with them and to help support them.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: So, Rita, you mentioned a little bit ago about AARP resources.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: What are some things that you think that pharmacists should
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: be most aware of as far as those resources are concerned?
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the two things are really important.
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: It's our state-specific guides. So, again, it's really helping family
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: caregivers see that there are things in their local communities.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: at least the pharmacies that I'm familiar with in my
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: community and my interaction, they can oftentimes be the heart
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: of the community, right? And so are there health fairs
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: that you go to? Are you a part of a
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: health system that has different events? Like how do you
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: as a pharmacist show up in that community? These state-by-state
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: guides can be one way that you can offer local resources.
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: I think the other one really is more of a
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: general caregiving guide that helps people see where they are
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: on their journey, whether they haven't started yet. Like maybe
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: this picking up this prescription for mom is the first
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: step of that journey. And that caregiver may not realize
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: you might be in this for five years, right? This
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: isn't just a prescription that you're picking up. And so
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: having a resource there helps. for them to naturally be
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: able to pick up, or you've pointed them to it,
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: that helps them understand and realize where they are on
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: their journey and where they can get supports.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: I love that. And I love the passion that you
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: have for this. So speaking about passion, where do you
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: see this three to five years? What does a truly
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: caregiver-friendly pharmacy look like?
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: A truly caregiver-friendly pharmacy is one which... Myself, I'm going
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: back to Rita of old, where I had incontinent supplies
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: for my mom, diapers for my child. I had supplements
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: for my mom and I had baby food for my kids.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: You know, I had all of that in there. But
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: the thing that I didn't mention is that it took
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: me a long time to figure out how to pull
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: that all together in one way. And so when I
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: think out, first of all, caregiving isn't going anywhere. The
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: adult population is aging very rapidly. And I think that
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: the successful pharmacist, the successful retailer is one that centers care.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: the experience of this caregiver who is likely going to
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: be that sandwich caregiver and ensures that they not only
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: feel supported and have the communication that they need to
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: provide better care, that medical side of care, but they
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: also are in a place where they can get all
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: of these other needs fulfilled. It's ordered in a way
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: that I'm not running all over the store trying to
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: figure out what I'm doing.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: And that's key, right? Because you don't have the time
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: to do that.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: So if listeners could remember one thing that you said
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: today during this conversation, what message would you, like every pharmacist,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: and I'm going to expand this a little bit, every
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: pharmacist and caregiver to take with them?
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: To lean on each other. I think that pharmacists, especially
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: community pharmacists, have such a huge opportunity to and role
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: and really supporting that individual and helping that caregiver feel seen.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: And sometimes that's half the battle.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: You know, Rita, first of all, thank you for joining
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: us today. It's been a pleasure. I love your passion
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: and appreciate your transparency and your vulnerability today. You know,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: one thing that really stood out is that caregivers aren't
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: just a niche audience, right? They're often the person standing
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: at the counter right in front of us. By recognizing them,
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: like you pointed out, supporting them and partnering with them,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: you made it very clear that pharmacies can improve the
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: care and strengthen that loyalty and make a meaningful difference
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: in the communities. I don't want to end just on that.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: In your mind, what drives this passion for you? If
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: you were a pharmacist, how would you do this different?
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Let's end on that.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, what I would do differently, I mean,
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: what drives my passion is the memory of how challenging
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: it was, right? Not because I didn't want to provide
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: the care. Like, I wanted to care for my mom.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: I wanted to care for my grandmother. And I would
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: care for any other family member or friend that needed it.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: But too often, the brokenness of the system, the lack
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: of affordability of services, the confusion that came with trying
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: to figure it all out, got in the way of
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: me being able to sit down and hold my mother's hand.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: And so if we can create an environment that supports
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: that individual, that supports that Rita, who just wanted to
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: take 10 minutes to sit down and hold her mother's
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: hand and be that daughter, then that's what we need
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: to do. And guess what? As that pharmacist, as that
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: retail leader, it can benefit you. There's a return on
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: investment for you from a business perspective to provide that
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: level of support.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Rita, thank you again for being here. It's
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: been a pleasure. talking with you.
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you to our listeners and we'll see you next time.