Latest / Rooted Conversations with Mitch Webb / How He Healed Chronic Illness by Letting Go & Healing His Nervous System

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How He Healed Chronic Illness by Letting Go & Healing His Nervous System · Rooted Conversations with Mitch Webb

• 0:01
  All right guys, welcome back to the rooted conversations
• 0:04
  podcast. I am your host Mitch Webb and today
• 0:08
  we got a very special guest. We got Joe Cusamano
• 0:12
  He is is it heel dot heel flip? Yeah, it's heel
• 0:15
  flip, but it's here. Yeah. Yeah, it's heel flip
• 0:17
  It's all just one thing but well, tell us about
• 0:21
  it because since I've already botched it Yeah,
• 0:23
  no, it's you know, it kind of comes from my love
• 0:26
  of skateboarding. Honestly, I've been a skateboarder
• 0:29
  my entire life, but I also. Everything that I
• 0:33
  thought was going to help me heal was the exact
• 0:36
  opposite and it was like flipped So so it just
• 0:39
  kind of naturally kind of fit You know, I don't
• 0:43
  know if you you were we were connected when I
• 0:46
  had my other business called the healing dudes
• 0:48
  with my my friend Josh He kind of left and split
• 0:52
  and then when when he left I needed a new name
• 0:55
  for the the company that I run and you know the
• 0:58
  coaching and support that I do and You know,
• 1:01
  I just kind of it just kind of came to me, honestly,
• 1:03
  and it just it made sense with everything being
• 1:07
  flipped on its head and like flipping the script
• 1:09
  on your healing journey to to be empowered on
• 1:12
  your healing journey versus in that victim mode
• 1:13
  and and so many different ways of going about
• 1:16
  healing that are completely opposite of what
• 1:19
  I thought and what a lot of people think, you
• 1:22
  know, is actually going to lead to healing. So
• 1:23
  that's that's where the name comes from. the
• 1:27
  people listening along cannot see the cheese
• 1:30
  out on my face. When you said it's the exact
• 1:34
  opposite, because that's been my experience too.
• 1:37
  Me and Joe have so much in common from our healing
• 1:40
  journeys. It's kind of crazy as I've been diving
• 1:42
  in them. And that's where I want to start. We're
• 1:45
  going to go back. We're going to talk about the
• 1:46
  things that helped and worked. We're going to
• 1:48
  see what it's like to flip it on its head and
• 1:50
  give you guys some takeaway action items. But
• 1:53
  I feel like we got to kind of start from the
• 1:55
  beginning. And what led to this to the symptoms?
• 2:00
  What was that like? What were you dealing with?
• 2:01
  So I originally got sick back in 2005 when I
• 2:06
  was dealing with hundreds of symptoms. I was
• 2:09
  in college. I'm 42 years old now. So I've been
• 2:12
  dealing with this for like 20 years, 20 plus
• 2:15
  years, ups and downs of chronic illness and symptoms.
• 2:19
  And at that time, I didn't know what was going
• 2:22
  on. I was seeing doctor after doctor and getting
• 2:26
  nowhere. At first, I tried to ignore everything
• 2:28
  that was going on. I came up, obviously, as a
• 2:33
  skater, as someone who was into sports a ton.
• 2:36
  So injuries, illness was never an issue. I'd
• 2:40
  never thought about it. If I got injured, I would
• 2:42
  like... You know skate or play sports hurt or
• 2:45
  if I got like a cold or a virus It was just like
• 2:47
  nothing but when I started getting like all of
• 2:50
  these uncomfortable scary symptoms like heart
• 2:52
  issues and you know terrible dpdr depersonalization
• 2:57
  Vertigo uh gut health issues I was getting like
• 3:02
  panic attacks and and all of these things and
• 3:06
  i'm like what is going on along with like crazy
• 3:08
  headaches and chronic fatigue and pain and all
• 3:11
  of this stuff I kept trying to ignore it and
• 3:14
  then it got to the point where I couldn't ignore
• 3:15
  it. And then I was like worried that I was dying,
• 3:18
  you know? I had to basically... Stop going to
• 3:23
  school like drop out of college and I started
• 3:25
  seeing all these doctors and just kept getting
• 3:27
  the run around You know the run around like I'm
• 3:30
  not really sure Nothing's really wrong Trying
• 3:34
  in at a Preston it this might be just psychosomatic
• 3:37
  all in your head blah blah blah and then You
• 3:40
  know eventually I started seeing other doctors
• 3:42
  are like alright I can kind of see something's
• 3:44
  going on wrong with you neurologists and things
• 3:47
  like that and even heart doctors cuz like my
• 3:49
  heart was like great it would be like resting
• 3:52
  heart rate at like 120 and like, you know, my
• 3:55
  blood pressure would be like 160 over 120. And
• 3:58
  they'd be like, what, like, I don't know what's
• 4:00
  in it. So there was like a lot of signs where
• 4:03
  doctors are like, okay, there's some stuff going
• 4:05
  wrong, but I don't know. It could just be weird.
• 4:08
  And then eventually after like six, eight months
• 4:13
  of just like laying in bed, You know trying to
• 4:16
  feel better barely eating barely doing anything
• 4:19
  I eventually saw like a neurologist was like
• 4:22
  alright She ran the right lime tests and stuff
• 4:24
  like that and I got a positive Diagnosis, but
• 4:28
  she was just like I don't I don't know how to
• 4:29
  treat that. So good luck. Yeah and And that's
• 4:35
  when I started seeing Lyme specialists. And I
• 4:37
  was like, oh, OK, I'm going to get better in
• 4:39
  like a few months now and I'll just go back to
• 4:41
  school. Eureka, we found the magic bullet here.
• 4:45
  Yeah, exactly. That was like just the beginning
• 4:48
  of it, though. You know, so I like started antibiotics
• 4:50
  and I do remember like maybe within like the
• 4:54
  first month, I actually started feeling a little
• 4:56
  bit better. Like I actually started getting some
• 4:58
  energy and some symptoms started getting a little
• 5:00
  bit better. And I was like, oh, shit, maybe this
• 5:02
  is working. um and uh that just progress just
• 5:07
  halted and then do you think do you think like
• 5:09
  i know from my journey much later on i can observe
• 5:13
  this where if i had something that i thought
• 5:15
  would work it must be like a placebo type thing
• 5:17
  yeah i'd get really excited i'd benefit for like
• 5:21
  a week or two and then i the symptoms would come
• 5:23
  back and there'd be all this shame yeah i got
• 5:26
  excited about it do you think the the antibiotics
• 5:30
  were helping or do you think it was more of like
• 5:32
  a placebo type? It could be just a placebo with
• 5:35
  what I know now I think it probably was part
• 5:38
  of it like you know I thought doctors were like
• 5:40
  hey take these it's gonna help you you know that's
• 5:42
  the thing it's it's a placebo it's like okay
• 5:44
  yeah it is gonna help you it shifts your energy
• 5:46
  you stop focusing I stopped focusing on how bad
• 5:49
  I felt I stopped focusing on my symptoms and
• 5:51
  I was more optimistic and that possibly just
• 5:54
  led to a reduction of symptoms. And what I know
• 5:58
  now, it most likely was the case, but then, you
• 6:02
  know, yeah. Think about it, dude. You took the
• 6:04
  pressure off of yourself. Maybe you quit scanning
• 6:07
  so much. You started to be excited. Maybe you're
• 6:12
  great and have some gratitude. Like all those
• 6:14
  things, that's what we know does make us feel
• 6:17
  better. Exactly. medical and we've been trained
• 6:21
  to trust the authorities and the doctors not
• 6:24
  trust our bodies. Yeah, exactly. And that's that
• 6:28
  is truthfully. I think really what happened is
• 6:32
  is that I just yeah, I kind of let go a little
• 6:35
  bit and I trusted what was yeah. But then, you
• 6:38
  know, obviously that didn't last. And then I
• 6:43
  went down the rabbit holes like everyone does
• 6:45
  you know like you did like I did Like pretty
• 6:49
  much everyone with chronic illness you start
• 6:51
  going down the rabbit holes. It's like, okay
• 6:53
  Well, I'm not getting better anymore. Maybe there's
• 6:56
  something else or maybe I need to do a different
• 6:58
  combination of treatments and You know at that
• 7:01
  time, you know, the only answers were found Through
• 7:04
  like forums and like on the internet and then
• 7:07
  I'm only listening to people that are sick You
• 7:10
  know, I'm only talking to people that are sick.
• 7:12
  I'm only listening to people that are sick and
• 7:15
  and even doctors like, you know, they're they're
• 7:18
  not really giving me the best answers, even though
• 7:21
  I'm seeing some of the best like Lyme specialists
• 7:23
  in the world. They're they're just like throwing
• 7:26
  darts at a wall. And when things don't, you know,
• 7:29
  resolve, they're like, maybe it's this and then
• 7:31
  maybe it's that. And then you start going down.
• 7:33
  Oh, is it retroviruses? Is it mold? Is it do
• 7:36
  you have those, you know, the M .T .H .F .R.
• 7:39
  gene or do you have? Let's look at let's sync
• 7:41
  with your DNA and figure out what polymorphisms
• 7:43
  you have. Yeah. You know, just for that. Yeah,
• 7:47
  exactly. So then it was just I was getting the
• 7:49
  runaround then it was like Eastern medicine doctors
• 7:52
  and it was holistic practitioners and it was
• 7:54
  like, okay Let me try like, you know, these weird
• 7:57
  shamanic thing, you know, whatever was stuff
• 8:00
  up your butt. Take Yeah, exactly. Like yeah Lots
• 8:03
  of suppository stuff. Yeah I used to do coffee
• 8:07
  animals big time. Yeah, did you do crazy detoxes?
• 8:11
  Yeah, I did all these crazy detox protocols.
• 8:14
  I went to these wellness centers to do these
• 8:17
  IV drips of these detox protocols and spent thousands
• 8:21
  of dollars. They didn't help one bit. Eventually,
• 8:26
  I wasn't getting anywhere and I felt defeated.
• 8:31
  This was years into my journey of these ups and
• 8:35
  downs of where I would start feeling maybe a
• 8:38
  little bit better and then it would just go nowhere.
• 8:41
  try something else and then it would just go
• 8:42
  nowhere. And yeah, then it was, I stumbled upon
• 8:48
  Joe Dispenza's work, maybe around 2008, because
• 8:52
  he was in The Secret. I don't know if you ever
• 8:55
  seen The Secret? Oh, yeah, man. So that was like
• 9:00
  opened my eyes just a little bit to maybe there's
• 9:04
  something that I'm not doing that I don't even
• 9:07
  understand. And maybe there's things that I'm
• 9:11
  doing that are keeping me sick. And that's where
• 9:13
  I started with the mindset piece. I was like,
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  holy shit, this opened my eyes. Maybe my mindset's
• 9:20
  just been so negative. And it has been like it
• 9:24
  had been. I was sick for years. All I focused
• 9:26
  on was getting better and trying to heal and,
• 9:29
  you know, woe is me and victim mentality. And,
• 9:32
  you know, I became a hypochondriac and stressed
• 9:34
  and worried about my symptoms all day and everything
• 9:37
  like that. And that was like the first thing
• 9:39
  that like made me awake to this type of feeling.
• 9:42
  I was like, there's something here. It makes
• 9:44
  sense to me. I'm going to I'm going to dive into
• 9:47
  this a little bit more. And so that's when I
• 9:50
  shifted my focus a little bit. I was still trying
• 9:52
  to treat Lyme. I was still seeing doctors. But
• 9:55
  I was kind of like half the time, all right,
• 9:58
  I'm going to do my journaling. I'm going to do
• 10:00
  my affirmations. Maybe I'm going to do some EFT.
• 10:03
  I'm going to do some visualization. I'm going
• 10:05
  to shift my mindset. And then the other half
• 10:07
  of time was like, I'm sick person. I need to
• 10:09
  go see this doctor. So it was like this wrestling
• 10:11
  in this tug of war. That was going on. It's like
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  I see in my head like these two identities. You
• 10:18
  know, you're looking for answers. You want somebody,
• 10:21
  it almost, I wanted somebody to believe me that
• 10:23
  I was sick and understand how much pain I was
• 10:26
  in because before that, I just felt like shit
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  and nobody believed me. And then now, so now
• 10:31
  I've got this identity and this diagnosis that
• 10:33
  I am attached to. And I've got this other part
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  of me that's like, hey, let go, you can heal
• 10:39
  your body, trust me. Um, and it feels like a
• 10:44
  kind of a tug of war. It is it's a really tug
• 10:46
  of war and it's something that I I struggle with
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  I think everyone struggles with it until they
• 10:51
  finally There's a point where you finally let
• 10:54
  go and break free and that was that was something
• 10:56
  that I had to go through It came, you know, maybe
• 10:59
  a year or so into doing some of this type of
• 11:03
  work I was spending all this time, you know,
• 11:05
  I was spending time like, you know meditating
• 11:07
  visualizing like but sitting at home doing this
• 11:10
  like I was I was living in my mom's house. I
• 11:13
  dropped out of college. I wasn't really doing
• 11:15
  anything. I wasn't working. I was trying to heal.
• 11:17
  I was focusing on healing in multiple ways. I
• 11:19
  was seeing the doctors. I was going to the wellness
• 11:22
  centers, yet I was doing this mindset, mind -body
• 11:25
  work. I didn't even know necessarily what I was
• 11:27
  doing at the time because... You know, it was
• 11:30
  like law of attraction manifestation stuff at
• 11:32
  that point. It wasn't like there wasn't like,
• 11:35
  hey, this is neuroplasticity. This is nervous
• 11:37
  system stuff. It was just like, hey, I know this
• 11:40
  is like energy. You know, I started diving into
• 11:42
  like the energy aspect of like your thoughts
• 11:45
  and your beliefs and all that. And it made sense,
• 11:47
  but I wasn't really quite getting anywhere. It
• 11:51
  was like, it shifted my focus a bit and it helped
• 11:55
  me to feel better in ways about feeling sick.
• 11:59
  but I wasn't really seeing all of this amazing
• 12:03
  improvement. And then eventually a couple things
• 12:08
  happened. Did the spinal fluid come up your spine
• 12:12
  and hit your brain? Oh no. Maybe I did. I don't
• 12:17
  know. The Kundalini awakening type of deal that
• 12:19
  people talk about. I don't know. I don't think
• 12:23
  that was the case, but I turned it into that.
• 12:27
  And for the audience, Joe Dispenza teaches a
• 12:30
  breathing technique where you're bringing spinal
• 12:32
  fluid from the base of your spine into your brain.
• 12:35
  They're supposed to be this big white light.
• 12:37
  You can call it Kundalini rising from, I think,
• 12:40
  yoga or something like that. And I think there's
• 12:42
  a lot of good things from Joe where my OCD got
• 12:47
  into it is trying to create this massive event
• 12:51
  that I was waiting for this spontaneous healing,
• 12:54
  which kind of sounds like you're very as I'm
• 12:56
  thinking about it and knowing a little bit about
• 12:58
  you is like you waiting for a cure for Lyme.
• 13:02
  Yeah, exactly. And the same thing that happens.
• 13:05
  It happens with people in this world, too, you
• 13:08
  know, whether it's brain retraining, nervous
• 13:11
  system practices, everyone's looking, you know,
• 13:14
  people shift from, OK, I'm not looking for that
• 13:19
  cure anymore in the form of a pill or a doctor,
• 13:22
  but I am looking for that magic program or that
• 13:27
  like you said that event that happens where it's
• 13:30
  just like spontaneous remission or healing or
• 13:33
  maybe something that only takes a month or two
• 13:35
  or things like that and You know, a lot of people
• 13:39
  will lead you down down those that path to and
• 13:42
  even you know There's some not well -meaning
• 13:47
  people in this space that that's what they do
• 13:49
  to sell a program. It's like, oh, I have the
• 13:51
  answers, you know, whatever. And for the listeners,
• 13:54
  it takes fucking time. Yeah, it takes time. Nobody
• 13:56
  wants to hear that. Yeah. I love, I hear Helmut
• 14:00
  talking about three years and I get people coming
• 14:03
  to me going, hey, I heard Helmut and he said
• 14:04
  three years, like, tell me something different.
• 14:07
  And part of that, what I tell people to kind
• 14:09
  of talk them off the ledge is a little bit. It's
• 14:11
  like, hey, it's not a death ride. Yeah, for three
• 14:14
  years and then you're just magically well, yeah.
• 14:16
  Yeah, it's like there's little moments along
• 14:20
  the way, glimmers, whatever you want to call
• 14:22
  them, that let you know like, oh shit, I'm healing.
• 14:26
  And that's where it's so good to have someone
• 14:28
  that's been there. And you don't know if you
• 14:30
  hadn't been there. But back to your story with
• 14:33
  like the whole identity thing. That seems like
• 14:38
  it's like we find that identity. And then we're
• 14:41
  like, oh, I got it. And we find our people. We
• 14:44
  got the doctors and the visits. And we're really
• 14:47
  kind of cementing ourselves into stuckness. It's
• 14:53
  like, because this is confirming my diagnosis.
• 14:55
  This is who I am. These are my people. This is
• 14:57
  how I'm going to get better. I heard you say
• 14:58
  one thing that I didn't realize I had done as
• 15:02
  well, but like attaching ourselves to the Lyme
• 15:06
  group. Yeah. And then saying like, no, I used
• 15:10
  to go on a bunch of podcasts with Lime. I used
• 15:12
  to follow them on social media. I started unfollowing
• 15:16
  them. Talk about how the diagnosis can become
• 15:20
  our identity and how letting go of that. Yeah.
• 15:24
  That yeah ties into exactly why I wanted to kind
• 15:27
  of go with this too because there was like there
• 15:29
  were some big shifts on my journey that finally
• 15:31
  led me to heal and You know a big part of it
• 15:34
  was letting go Surrendering attachments to these
• 15:38
  labels and these diagnosis like I forget where
• 15:41
  I where i learned this but i started reading
• 15:44
  a lot of like more spiritual texts because i
• 15:47
  just my mind was awake to this so i started reading
• 15:50
  like you know the the power of now and like Eckhart
• 15:53
  Tolle you know books and you know those type
• 15:56
  of things and um i started recognizing that my
• 16:01
  i was still attached to the chronic illness Lyme
• 16:05
  disease and I was still holding on to it and
• 16:07
  there were still some behaviors that I was doing
• 16:09
  like again I was talking to my my sick friends
• 16:12
  my lime ease I was googling I was still searching
• 16:16
  on forums I was still identified and I would
• 16:19
  still like on my my social media feed at the
• 16:21
  time it was like Facebook and like my space or
• 16:24
  whatever just lime lime lime lime and uh you
• 16:27
  know that was unintentionally keeping me chained
• 16:31
  to the chronic illness. And I had this like this
• 16:33
  bubble that we live in. And that's all we see
• 16:35
  and know. And so what would your body, your brain,
• 16:38
  your nervous system want to change if that's
• 16:41
  all it is? Yeah, exactly. And I had this realization.
• 16:45
  I don't know exactly. I mean, again, this was
• 16:47
  2008, 2000. It's probably 2009. At this point,
• 16:51
  I recognized I got to make some changes and divert
• 16:56
  my attention away from I'm a Lyme. I'm a sick
• 16:59
  person. I need to heal this to living better
• 17:03
  with the chronic illness and and focusing on
• 17:08
  more like healthy things that were going to lead
• 17:13
  me in the direction of health. I came across
• 17:15
  some texts on like psychology textbooks on like
• 17:19
  things like acceptance and commitment therapy,
• 17:22
  which is what I really subscribe to because back
• 17:25
  then there was nothing about the nervous system,
• 17:29
  brain retraining. It was psychology. It was,
• 17:31
  you know, how to overcome anxiety and depersonalization
• 17:34
  and these things. And I just use it for chronic
• 17:37
  illness as well. And it helped. But I But I realized,
• 17:40
  like you asked, like I realized that I was still
• 17:44
  identifying as a chronic illness person. And
• 17:47
  there was there was a huge shift that happened.
• 17:50
  It was like maybe a year, year and a half into
• 17:54
  kind of coexisting with trying to heal using
• 17:57
  pills, treatments, and then also diving into
• 18:00
  this type of mind, mind, body mindset work. You
• 18:04
  know, this Joe Dispenza type stuff. And I realized.
• 18:08
  That I needed to I needed to to just let go and
• 18:12
  start living It was like kind of like this this
• 18:15
  mentality of like I'm tired of waiting around
• 18:19
  to live my life I'm tired of I was like I became
• 18:25
  fed up with myself with the chronic illness letting
• 18:28
  it control my daily actions and I made kind of
• 18:32
  like a vow to myself I was like I'm letting go
• 18:35
  of all of this. I'm getting out of all of the
• 18:37
  forums. I am Detaching i'm stopping i'm going
• 18:41
  to stop looking about it at this stuff and i'm
• 18:44
  going to start moving forward in life regardless
• 18:46
  Regardless if I heal if I don't wherever i'm
• 18:50
  at with my life. I've realized these symptoms
• 18:53
  Are not going to kill me It was like three plus
• 18:56
  years at that point three four years at that
• 18:58
  point If they were going to kill me, they were
• 19:00
  going to kill me. They weren't going to kill
• 19:02
  me. You know, so I might as well just get on
• 19:05
  with it, get on with life and redirect my attention
• 19:08
  and focus towards life and living again better
• 19:11
  with the chronic illness and symptoms. And that
• 19:14
  was the shift that ultimately led me to a full
• 19:18
  recovery. And that's sort of the premise of like
• 19:21
  ACT acceptance commitment therapy is like, except
• 19:25
  where you're at. Accept the situation as it is
• 19:28
  not that it's gonna be this forever. But like
• 19:31
  this is you can't control it like you You can't
• 19:35
  you know, no matter how hard you try to get rid
• 19:37
  of it focus on it, you know kill treat whatever
• 19:40
  it's like it's there like you got to make peace
• 19:42
  with it and then Move forward just start living
• 19:46
  acting on values acting on life do the right
• 19:48
  things and just let go like letting go is such
• 19:51
  a big part of it and Ultimately, that's yeah
• 19:54
  about a year or two after that. I began to well
• 19:57
  I started making shifts early like right after
• 20:00
  that but about a year or two later I was like
• 20:03
  completely free of symptoms chronic illness back
• 20:08
  to living a full healthy life working uh getting
• 20:12
  my degree in college again and it was it was
• 20:15
  like the the chronic illness and lime was like
• 20:17
  a distant memory so for the listeners i want
• 20:21
  to pause right here because this is such a a
• 20:25
  big piece you know he calls it the shift that
• 20:28
  got him out of illness and he talks about how
• 20:31
  focusing on the illness uh like focusing on symptoms
• 20:35
  making healing all that we do That's what's keeping
• 20:40
  us stuck. It feels productive. It feels like,
• 20:43
  yeah man, I'm going to do the perfect diet. I'm
• 20:45
  going to take the perfect supplements. I'm going
• 20:47
  to have the perfect doctor. Somebody's going
• 20:49
  to create a cure. I'm going to work my ass off.
• 20:52
  I'm going to push through. It's funny how that
• 20:54
  kind of tracks back to sports as well. We kind
• 20:58
  of learned that early. Rub some dirt on it and
• 21:00
  keep going. But really the thing that allows
• 21:03
  us to heal... is going inside, instead of looking
• 21:07
  for something out here to heal me, you're the
• 21:09
  medicine. It comes from inside. Everybody that
• 21:12
  I've interviewed on this podcast, and even myself,
• 21:15
  a year goes when this happened for me. I did
• 21:17
  the exact same thing. When I started, I was telling
• 21:19
  Joe before we hopped on, when I started this
• 21:21
  podcast, my deal with my business coach was to
• 21:24
  do 10 minutes of work a day. I started getting
• 21:27
  clear on what I wanted to do and got on with
• 21:31
  it. with the symptoms, crying, walking around
• 21:33
  the block for 10 minutes in the morning. Uh,
• 21:36
  you know, and then slowly, but surely the body
• 21:40
  starts getting better. But one thing I wanted
• 21:42
  to ask you about the letting go process. Um,
• 21:47
  what did that look like? Was it like, I've heard
• 21:50
  you say that you used your values and chose interest
• 21:54
  that you have, but was it like one thing at a
• 21:57
  time or did you just like white knuckle and let
• 21:59
  it let go all at once type of thing? It was one
• 22:02
  thing at a time what to let go up to yeah, it
• 22:04
  was one thing at a time and uh, it was White
• 22:07
  knuckling is not how it works This is where a
• 22:09
  lot of people get caught up to is is they think
• 22:12
  I am doing the i'm doing the right things and
• 22:14
  i'm moving forward in life, but they're white
• 22:17
  knuckling Through it and so it really letting
• 22:20
  go surrender acceptance and all that stuff are
• 22:23
  are the key and the foundation of of moving forward
• 22:27
  as well, so um What that looked like for me was...
• 22:33
  redirecting my focus and attention, like I said,
• 22:35
  towards my values. So I created kind of like
• 22:38
  a routine for myself that would shift me out
• 22:42
  of that negative victim mindset mentality that
• 22:45
  I used to wake up. And, you know, as soon as
• 22:47
  I would wake up, body scanning, checking for
• 22:50
  symptoms, all of that, I was just like, I'm done
• 22:52
  with that. I'm done with that. When I started
• 22:54
  going in that direction, it was like, no, thanks.
• 22:57
  I'm going to focus my attention towards Whatever
• 23:01
  else the what the present moment? gratitude Just
• 23:06
  thinking about hobbies and activities that I
• 23:09
  want to do while I'm trying to heal so for me
• 23:13
  It was like a slow process over time. So At first
• 23:17
  I was I was like, let me just start living. Let
• 23:20
  me start redirecting my focus Let me start, you
• 23:23
  know, I was doing the right some of the right
• 23:24
  things now I was just like let me let go so I
• 23:27
  started The first thing I did, I was like, I
• 23:29
  got a part -time job delivering pizzas like eight
• 23:32
  hours a week just to see if I could do it. I
• 23:35
  was still dealing with all of the symptoms, but
• 23:37
  I was like, let me just see it. I got to start
• 23:38
  moving forward in life. Cool, I was able to do
• 23:41
  it. It sucked sometimes. I didn't feel good sometimes,
• 23:44
  but I was able to do it. And then every time
• 23:47
  I did something like that, It was like my body
• 23:51
  would reward me as well. It was like I would
• 23:55
  show myself that I was capable of doing more
• 23:58
  than I realized and my body was like, oh yeah,
• 24:01
  you're capable. And then it was just like these
• 24:02
  little steps forward where it was like, okay,
• 24:05
  let me take one college course at a community
• 24:09
  college now while working. Cool, I can do that
• 24:12
  too. Now let me take two and work at the same
• 24:15
  time. all right cool and all the while i'm kind
• 24:18
  of like reintegrating back into life seeing friends
• 24:21
  um engaging in hobbies again getting back into
• 24:25
  like little things that bring me joy all while
• 24:28
  you know i still have my my healing my healthy
• 24:31
  routine that is not it's not focused on healing
• 24:33
  it's just like all right i'm gonna do the right
• 24:35
  things for my body and i'm gonna let go and then
• 24:38
  it was just like all right wow this is all working
• 24:41
  i feel my body getting better yes i still have
• 24:44
  symptoms But the symptoms are more manageable.
• 24:49
  And honestly, I've learned to live with them
• 24:51
  better. Like they're not keeping me chained to
• 24:55
  my bed or my couch anymore. And then I just started
• 24:58
  like, there was like these little leaps of faith,
• 25:02
  you know, where I was like, okay, I'm capable
• 25:04
  of doing what I'm doing. And that's when I like
• 25:06
  signed back up for college full time. And then,
• 25:10
  you know, the first semester of college full
• 25:12
  time, I would have symptoms here and there. And
• 25:16
  some days it was a little bit more challenging.
• 25:18
  But when that happened, I didn't freak out like
• 25:21
  I did in the past. It was like I stopped that
• 25:23
  freaking out process that we all do when we're
• 25:27
  struggling with chronic illnesses. It's like
• 25:29
  we just want to get rid of the symptoms. And
• 25:31
  it's just like, all right, this is what it is.
• 25:34
  I've made this plan to just accept my situation
• 25:38
  as it is, as it comes. And that's where I think
• 25:41
  a lot of people also struggle with the Acceptance
• 25:45
  piece or the allowing piece. It's not a one -time
• 25:48
  thing It's something you continually do and you
• 25:51
  just like you're like, okay when you find yourself
• 25:53
  kind of Getting caught up and in stress and worry.
• 25:56
  It's like okay come back to the present moment.
• 25:58
  This is okay This is okay as it is allow yourself
• 26:03
  to truly feel like shit like that's what I would
• 26:06
  do but not let the feeling like shit control
• 26:10
  and dominate my focus and my thoughts and still
• 26:13
  move forward gently. Not white knuckle, just
• 26:17
  like, all right, okay, my body's asking for a
• 26:20
  little bit more rest, but I'm still going to,
• 26:23
  you know, do some of the right things for me.
• 26:25
  I'm still going to live. I'm still going to coexist
• 26:27
  with my symptoms. I might rest a bit more. But
• 26:30
  it wasn't like now I just, now I give myself
• 26:32
  a chance to just lay in bed and mope and commiserate.
• 26:35
  No, no, no, no. Like that wasn't it. You know,
• 26:38
  that wasn't the way either. It was like that
• 26:40
  balance, learning that balance of accept, surrender.
• 26:45
  and then still take little bits of action on
• 26:48
  those things. Do life with those symptoms. When
• 26:52
  we're in that collapsed, sensitized, dysregulated,
• 26:56
  whatever you want to call it state, our capacity
• 26:59
  is just razor thin. I know we both get a lot
• 27:03
  of questions about how do I increase my capacity
• 27:06
  and what you just outlined is the medicine. It's
• 27:09
  not like some special exercise, right? It's we
• 27:13
  heal through new experiences. Exactly. Not through
• 27:17
  force and hacking. You know, what I see in my
• 27:20
  mind as you're describing this is almost like
• 27:22
  putting a penny in a jar. Right. Every day you
• 27:25
  get to vote for who you want to be. Right. And
• 27:27
  you got to do that with the symptoms and you
• 27:30
  want to get clear on what do I really care about?
• 27:33
  What's what's important to me? Exercise, being
• 27:36
  healthy, spending time with friends and family,
• 27:39
  being present. having fun today. How can I do
• 27:43
  those things with the symptoms? And it's funny
• 27:46
  how all the biohacking and the quick fixes lead
• 27:52
  to fragility. They lead to a system that has
• 27:56
  no capacity. And the way you update the system
• 28:00
  and create capacity is doing new stuff and seeing
• 28:04
  Did you die? I think that's an old CrossFit thing
• 28:07
  that we would say. It's like, hey, the workout
• 28:09
  sucks today, but did you die? Like, no, I didn't
• 28:12
  die. And every time the brain sees that, the
• 28:14
  brain's used to you laying in bed and getting
• 28:16
  worse and worse and waiting for the, you know,
• 28:19
  you're anticipating and you're catastrophizing
• 28:22
  and you're waking up and your whole body's on
• 28:25
  fire. And so it's interesting too, because I
• 28:28
  was thinking this as you're talking, it's like
• 28:31
  we use What we do when we're in chronic illness
• 28:36
  is we learn how to scan our body and track really
• 28:39
  well. And we almost, that becomes kind of a superpower,
• 28:43
  but we have to, here comes your thing, flip it
• 28:46
  on its head because we can't use it to fix ourselves
• 28:49
  anymore, but we can use our higher brain to observe
• 28:51
  our patterns and get really clear on how am I
• 28:55
  fixing? How am I forcing? How am I fighting?
• 28:57
  How am I fearing all these, you know, the John
• 28:59
  Sonno uh seven F's or whatever because that awareness
• 29:02
  is a big part of the journey so is education
• 29:05
  and we have to build up enough education and
• 29:08
  awareness and do it enough that we get fucking
• 29:11
  sick and tired of it and we go all right i'm
• 29:15
  gonna do something different i'm gonna i'm gonna
• 29:17
  go live some waste today i'm gonna go for a walk
• 29:19
  i'm gonna get a part -time job and deliver some
• 29:21
  pizzas and every time you come home and don't
• 29:24
  die that's capacity exactly You show your body
• 29:28
  safety through action. You show your nervous
• 29:30
  system safety and healing through new experiences,
• 29:35
  through showing yourself. And there's not a right
• 29:39
  formula for it, and there's not a right or wrong
• 29:42
  way. And often sometimes it's like little things
• 29:45
  at first. Like again, there were times when my
• 29:47
  nervous system was so shot, like going to the
• 29:52
  gym and doing a full workout routine was not
• 29:54
  possible, or going and putting myself like, at
• 29:57
  a concert or traveling, just like my nervous
• 30:00
  system was so fried I could barely watch TV.
• 30:02
  But it was like, OK, I'm going to show myself
• 30:04
  safety. I'm going to go on this walk. I'm going
• 30:06
  to go in the park, go to the park. I'm going
• 30:07
  to go talk to a friend or something like that.
• 30:10
  And it's just like these little things like add
• 30:13
  up. You know, this is where a lot of people get
• 30:15
  caught up to. It's like if I can't be perfect
• 30:17
  with it, if I can't do what I used to do right
• 30:20
  now, it's not enough. So I'm just going to lay
• 30:23
  here. It's like, no, you can always show your
• 30:25
  body. Safety and your nervous system safety through
• 30:28
  action in multiple ways Even if it is like you
• 30:31
  do want to start exercising, but you maybe you
• 30:33
  can't do a full exercise routine Well, you can
• 30:36
  do a minute, you know, you can pick up a couple
• 30:38
  weights You can stretch you can do some like
• 30:41
  yoga or whatever or if like you're scared to
• 30:44
  like leave your house I don't you know, a lot
• 30:46
  of people become agoraphobic because of their
• 30:48
  symptoms You know, it's like, oh, I can't go
• 30:50
  see my friend. It's like, but can you go take
• 30:52
  a walk down the street, you know, down the block
• 30:56
  and show your body a new experience and your
• 30:59
  nervous system and your brain a new experience
• 31:01
  that will then register that new experience as
• 31:04
  safety. And it goes hand in hand. It's like that,
• 31:08
  you know, it's you kind of the action comes first.
• 31:13
  healing comes second. You know, a lot of people
• 31:15
  want the other way around where it's like, you
• 31:17
  know, I'll do once my nervous system feels safe.
• 31:22
  And it's like, your nervous system will start
• 31:24
  to feel safe after you start doing nervous system
• 31:27
  has never felt safe in your life. You think you're
• 31:30
  going to click your fingers and yeah, exactly.
• 31:36
  My first capacity increase happened by accident.
• 31:41
  I had a buddy over. We were splitting wood. It
• 31:43
  was a Sunday football and I was cooking on the
• 31:45
  grill. And I said, Hey, you want to come over
• 31:47
  and hang out? And he said, yeah. I said, you
• 31:48
  want to get a workout in? And he said, yeah.
• 31:50
  I said, so when he got there, I said, cool, we're
• 31:52
  going to be busting wood today. Now, what a good
• 31:56
  friend, right? Put him to work. But, uh, I set
• 31:58
  a timer for 15 minutes and we started busting
• 32:01
  wood and we're having a good time. I had just
• 32:03
  started, uh, my mentor, Irene Lyons, uh, smart
• 32:07
  body, smart mind program. And I was building
• 32:09
  capacity through you know, orienting and present
• 32:12
  moment type stuff. And that I'd probably been
• 32:14
  doing that for about a month. And, uh, I didn't
• 32:18
  actually set the timer. I thought I did, but
• 32:20
  we, I looked down and I'd been 45 minutes and
• 32:22
  I froze and I was waiting for like a wave of
• 32:26
  panic or like fatigue that would usually hit
• 32:29
  me and it didn't. And it's like, Oh, so I created
• 32:33
  a new experience by accident. And I think that
• 32:35
  was kind of cool. Yeah and that's usually what
• 32:38
  happens too with people is it's you know you
• 32:41
  get those those experiences where you have to
• 32:46
  do something or um you try something and then
• 32:50
  your your body shows you like oh you were capable
• 32:54
  of it and it's almost like this weird holy shit
• 32:57
  i didn't think i was able to do this and i was
• 33:01
  able to do it just fine and Now I actually kind
• 33:04
  of feel better afterwards. It's like You know
• 33:08
  your body rewards you with like these it's like
• 33:10
  whether it's endorphins or you know serotonin
• 33:13
  or real dopamine or whatever you kind of get
• 33:16
  that and I've had that experience so much in
• 33:19
  my journey where it was just like I don't know
• 33:21
  if I'm capable of doing this at all. It feels
• 33:24
  kind of crazy that I'm even going to try this.
• 33:27
  And I would even give myself an out. If I can't,
• 33:30
  I'll turn around. I'll just do it. I'll leave
• 33:33
  or whatever. And then I would do some of these
• 33:36
  things, whether it was going and seeing friends
• 33:38
  or trying engaging in some physical activity,
• 33:42
  whether it was skateboarding, whether it was
• 33:43
  lifting weights again and just trying these things.
• 33:47
  And then I would do it, and I would start feeling
• 33:50
  better. And I'm like, this is weird. Like, I
• 33:53
  didn't even know. It's ass backwards than the
• 33:57
  effort and force that we learned. Yeah. Hacking
• 33:59
  and stuff like that. Exactly. And it wasn't,
• 34:02
  and this is where, like, you know, we talked
• 34:04
  about it earlier. It's like, it wasn't white
• 34:07
  knuckling. It was like, looking at this is just
• 34:09
  like... I'm going to just try it as an experiment.
• 34:12
  That takes that white knuckling out of it versus
• 34:15
  I have to do this. It's just I'm going to try.
• 34:19
  I'm going to see what it's like. I'm going to
• 34:22
  see if I'm capable. And if I'm not, it's OK to
• 34:25
  stop or it's OK to not do it. But I'm just going
• 34:28
  to try. And when you shift the energy from I
• 34:32
  have to do this, it has to be perfect to just
• 34:34
  let me just see, let me just try. It takes that
• 34:38
  pressure off and then now it's your body rewards
• 34:41
  you. You know, and this is where I think a lot
• 34:43
  of people also miss that, that sort of nuance
• 34:47
  of, of sort of incremental training is like,
• 34:51
  how do I know I'm white knuckling? It's like,
• 34:53
  are you pressuring yourself to have to have an
• 34:56
  expectation or have it be a certain way? Or are
• 34:59
  you just giving yourself some grace to just try
• 35:02
  and attempt and some of healing, I'm sure you
• 35:05
  experience this too, is failing. It's like, you
• 35:09
  know, trying and you're just like, it's not today.
• 35:13
  But you don't just give up there. You know, you're
• 35:14
  just like, all right, I'll go up in another tent
• 35:17
  another day. But the old way I used to do it
• 35:21
  was like putting a lot of pressure and force
• 35:24
  on myself, putting a lot of expectation, anticipation
• 35:27
  on it, getting very worked up. And then what
• 35:30
  didn't happen, I would shame myself. And then
• 35:32
  also going on like scavenger hunt or and going
• 35:36
  down all these rabbit holes and very intellectual
• 35:39
  intellectualization like staying in my head about
• 35:42
  what's going on thinking that felt productive
• 35:44
  and that was a lot of effort and that's a lot
• 35:47
  of energy if you think about it right and what
• 35:49
  I tell people and this is something I had to
• 35:51
  learn the hard way you know first I got into
• 35:54
  trauma work big time and I thought oh I got a
• 35:57
  list of traumas brother like I got I got a hundred
• 36:00
  of them. Which one do you want to go at first?
• 36:02
  Let's go at the hardest and the heaviest one.
• 36:05
  Really, that can kick your ass because you don't
• 36:10
  have the capacity to sit in that type of stuff.
• 36:13
  That's where a lot of therapy and modalities
• 36:16
  and people don't understand sensitization, I
• 36:20
  would say. then now you're just kind of throwing
• 36:23
  the kitchen sink at the nervous system and you're
• 36:25
  reinforcing the OCD and you're going way outside
• 36:28
  of capacity. And the thing that really helped
• 36:31
  me is like, dude, you don't have to go looking
• 36:34
  for this stuff. The nervous system is the map.
• 36:37
  It gives you layups. There is no, I don't come
• 36:41
  in with a list. That's going back into the old
• 36:43
  pattern. That's how you fix it. But if I can
• 36:47
  just learn, to just be with my body, not scan
• 36:51
  my body, be with it. The pattern will come up.
• 36:54
  Like for me, I had, my fatigue is so much better
• 36:58
  than it was. I don't, I think the last time I
• 37:02
  experienced fatigue was maybe a month ago. And
• 37:05
  now that that has resolved, hopefully, I don't
• 37:08
  know, it could come back. It really doesn't matter
• 37:10
  to me anymore. Now I've got some gut stuff coming
• 37:13
  up and it's like, I went into therapy yesterday
• 37:15
  and I said, you know what? I said it, you know,
• 37:18
  it swims like a fish. It looks like a fish. This
• 37:21
  is the same thing. And it's so interesting because
• 37:23
  it's like, I don't know if symptoms continue
• 37:27
  to change as we heal, but it's like the next
• 37:31
  priority comes up. And I like Helmet talks about
• 37:34
  this. I'm going to have him on the podcast saying
• 37:35
  about like all these apps are open and we got
• 37:38
  to close the app. So it's almost like these alarms
• 37:41
  were going off in the background the whole time
• 37:44
  and we're trying to fix them all at once. And
• 37:47
  now, can I slow down and just meet the moment?
• 37:51
  Meet what's here. Trust my nervous system. Build
• 37:55
  safety through trust and meeting what is here
• 37:57
  instead of chasing some rabbit again. Exactly.
• 38:01
  And it also, like you said, it's changing the
• 38:05
  meaning of what these symptoms are. Because a
• 38:08
  lot of people, and myself included, for years,
• 38:12
  is you assign a meeting unintentionally to the
• 38:15
  symptoms. oh for in the case of like Lyme disease
• 38:18
  and so I talk oh these my I have you know Lyme
• 38:22
  bacteria in my brain oh I have this going on
• 38:25
  or maybe it's This is active or maybe my bartonella
• 38:29
  is flaring or whatever these are labels and meaning
• 38:32
  that you're assigning to the symptoms and then
• 38:35
  even in the case of You know nervous system stuff
• 38:38
  people will sign a meaning to it. Oh now, you
• 38:41
  know I've talked about this before like dysregulation
• 38:45
  and sensitization can also You can also assign
• 38:50
  a meaning and that can be another label and another
• 38:55
  crutch that keeps you stuck versus like, look,
• 38:58
  this is my body healing. This is my nervous system
• 39:01
  healing. And this is where a lot of people unintentionally
• 39:05
  assign these meanings to their symptoms. Oh,
• 39:09
  my nervous system sensitized or dysregulated.
• 39:12
  And this is why I have these symptoms. And now
• 39:16
  I need to tread lightly. I need to. It's like
• 39:19
  we almost load the gun with information and then
• 39:22
  pointed at ourselves. Oh, I'm I'm in freeze.
• 39:25
  You know, I'm in I'm in dorsal right now. I'm
• 39:27
  in, you know, I'm in sensitization. I'm dysregulated.
• 39:31
  And it's all saying I'm a victim and something's
• 39:33
  wrong with me. Exactly. It's a trap. I heard
• 39:36
  you do that post yesterday. It was really good.
• 39:39
  Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it can all
• 39:41
  be a trap. There's nothing wrong with having
• 39:43
  the awareness. I think sometimes it's good to
• 39:45
  have the awareness. But I didn't heal with the
• 39:49
  awareness of the nervous system the first time
• 39:51
  that I healed. Now I have tons more of awareness,
• 39:55
  and that's great and all, but it doesn't make
• 39:57
  a difference one iota if you're gonna heal, if
• 40:02
  you have the awareness of like, I'm in freeze,
• 40:05
  or I'm in fight or flight, or I'm in fawn, or
• 40:07
  like you said. it all becomes something, another
• 40:12
  thing to blame. Oh, this is why I'm here. This
• 40:15
  is where I'm at. This is why my symptoms are
• 40:17
  this. And instead of... You know, doing that,
• 40:20
  it's like, OK, this is where I'm at. What is
• 40:23
  my body asking? What is my body needing right
• 40:25
  now? Not as what in my nervous system telling
• 40:27
  me to do, because the nervous system can tell
• 40:30
  you to do a certain thing. And this is where
• 40:32
  it will be loud and it can be urgent if the system
• 40:36
  telling you. And that's how you can start to
• 40:39
  notice these patterns. But the but the wisdom
• 40:41
  that comes through, it's soft into exactly. Exactly
• 40:45
  like your nervous system when you're stuck in
• 40:48
  fight -or -flight is telling you, you know Fight
• 40:51
  flight so it's gonna have all of these things
• 40:54
  and then you're gonna get caught up in your head
• 40:55
  and and and want to do all the you know, what
• 40:58
  a what a piece and what a scan and body body
• 41:02
  scan and symptom check and Stress and worry and
• 41:05
  it's like, okay. Well, this is what you actually
• 41:08
  need to do is calm yourself and recognize that
• 41:12
  your body just needs safety. And so I always
• 41:16
  like tell people, it's like, you got to stop
• 41:18
  listening to your nervous system state and letting
• 41:21
  that drive your actions. You actually have to
• 41:24
  do the opposite truthfully, you know? So is it
• 41:30
  intuition? Or is it hypervigilance that's talking?
• 41:34
  Yeah, yeah. It's easy to get those two confused
• 41:38
  and then you get all this information out on
• 41:40
  the Social media and stuff like that that's reinforcing.
• 41:44
  Oh, you could just if you that's all your feed
• 41:47
  is you pick your flavor of the day and you diagnose
• 41:49
  yourself a different way. Yeah, exactly Exactly.
• 41:53
  It's information overload information overload
• 41:56
  and it actually is not what you need part of
• 42:01
  Healing is getting out of this brain You know
• 42:05
  that the thing is like I talk a lot of lot more
• 42:08
  about the spiritual and the more psychology aspects
• 42:12
  of healing, because I think that's what I learned
• 42:15
  and what ultimately helped me. I didn't learn
• 42:17
  from DNRS or these programs. I learned from psychology
• 42:21
  textbooks and these like spiritual textbooks.
• 42:24
  But like learning to get out of my brain and
• 42:27
  just back into my body, back into the present
• 42:29
  moment was... Some of the biggest things that
• 42:32
  I learned to heal and like a lot of people don't
• 42:35
  want to hear that Do you mean like when you say
• 42:37
  out of your out of your head into your body?
• 42:39
  Were you having like relentless ruminating thoughts
• 42:42
  telling you to do something to tell like what
• 42:44
  it what was something that was super helpful
• 42:46
  for you? Yeah, so listening and their thoughts
• 42:49
  are on repeat. Yeah drop into the body. So this
• 42:53
  is where you recognize that you're not your thoughts.
• 42:57
  This goes into the spiritual aspect and the psychology
• 43:00
  aspect of it, whether it's, you know, you want
• 43:03
  to hear from someone like, you know, Buddha or
• 43:05
  whatever. This is like where I learned that,
• 43:07
  like, you're not your thoughts, you know, they're
• 43:10
  automatic thoughts. Now I know why they're automatic
• 43:13
  they're also often driven by your nervous system
• 43:16
  state, you know trying to protect you, right?
• 43:19
  So you're not your thoughts you need to recognize
• 43:20
  that and from like a psychology lens This makes
• 43:25
  sense as well. Like you know your your brain
• 43:28
  thinks 50 ,000 thoughts a day and a lot of them
• 43:32
  are automatic based on your past programming
• 43:36
  and all these things So it's not you can't control
• 43:39
  your thoughts. So it's just recognizing that
• 43:42
  these thoughts are Are there and they're gonna
• 43:45
  pass they're gonna come up It's do you believe
• 43:49
  those thoughts and do you follow them down into
• 43:52
  a story about what it means? This is where like
• 43:55
  a lot of what I learned psychology wise really
• 43:59
  helped me. I mean, it's even within like the
• 44:02
  ACT stuff that I talk about is, you know, you
• 44:06
  got to kind of step back and be that that sort
• 44:09
  of awareness. Like these thoughts are here and
• 44:12
  then not follow them, not follow them, because
• 44:15
  this is where a lot of people get caught up.
• 44:17
  These thoughts mean something. And then unconsciously
• 44:21
  follow them into this story about their symptoms,
• 44:25
  about what it means, and then they're lost. In
• 44:29
  the thoughts, in the state, the thoughts are
• 44:31
  driving the state, the stage is driving the thoughts,
• 44:34
  and the only thing that you can do in that moment
• 44:38
  is detach from the thoughts. Not stop thinking.
• 44:41
  You cannot stop thinking. Stopping them is like
• 44:44
  making a river stop. Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 44:47
  Yeah, this is where I don't like... You know
• 44:48
  some of the brain retraining programs that tell
• 44:50
  you to like stop your thoughts like good luck
• 44:52
  with that They're not that's not going to happen.
• 44:54
  That feels like a ton of energy and resistance
• 44:58
  And so what's the shift then if someone's like
• 45:03
  struggling with that and they're trying to stop
• 45:04
  the river with their hands Yep, how can they?
• 45:08
  Not stop them, but not follow them Presence man
• 45:12
  practices and presence honestly, and this is
• 45:15
  presence and acceptance go hand in hand This
• 45:18
  is where you know, you can do things to get you
• 45:21
  back into your body and there's multiple Multiple
• 45:24
  ways to get back in your body. It can be physical
• 45:26
  things like you can do something physical Just
• 45:29
  think about you know, whenever you're you're
• 45:31
  playing sports You're not stuck in your head
• 45:34
  man you are focused on the present moment you
• 45:36
  know and same with me like you're focused on
• 45:38
  the task at hand obviously when you're sick you
• 45:41
  can't just go play a sport but you can do something
• 45:44
  a little bit physical whether that's walking
• 45:46
  whether that's stretching whether that's yoga
• 45:48
  whether that's she gone any of those things or
• 45:51
  you could go. be outside, sit in your yard, and
• 45:55
  do some orienting practices and breathing practices
• 45:58
  that pull you into the present moment. Out of
• 46:01
  your head, just focus on your external surroundings.
• 46:04
  You know, kind of label the external surroundings,
• 46:07
  like what you're seeing, what you're noticing.
• 46:10
  You're orienting to safety by being present in
• 46:14
  the moment. You know, I can be here on this podcast.
• 46:18
  I could be nervous. I can have symptoms flaring.
• 46:21
  And if I look around, I'm safe and everything's
• 46:26
  cool. Exactly. It's like you're pendulating between
• 46:29
  what's uncomfortable and what feels safe, and
• 46:32
  then titrating that a little bit. And it's like,
• 46:34
  not to make it go away, but to just, that's a
• 46:37
  drop of safety. Exactly. When you're present,
• 46:41
  You're you're you're showing your body safety
• 46:43
  and it doesn't mean you have to do it all the
• 46:45
  time. It's hard This is a practice like anything
• 46:47
  else It's your your brain is gonna want to pull
• 46:50
  you out of the present moment and let you try
• 46:52
  to get you to follow a story and Part of the
• 46:55
  practice of presence is like do I follow that
• 46:57
  or do I just say no? Thanks. I'm gonna come back
• 47:00
  to here and I'm gonna focus on what I'm doing
• 47:03
  This is like mindfulness, you know again like
• 47:07
  a lot of these programs like dnrs and all these
• 47:11
  things there's so many other like whether it's
• 47:14
  psychology teachers you know john kabat zinn
• 47:18
  Okay, he's another one like og like John Sarno
• 47:21
  or all these people that talk about mindfulness
• 47:24
  for you know for overcoming Like chronic pain
• 47:29
  and chronic anxiety You know mental health issues
• 47:33
  and stuff like that And there's a bunch of other
• 47:35
  people that talked about this for years decades
• 47:38
  before, you know DNRS ever existed or anything
• 47:41
  like that. So that's where I you know, I I read
• 47:45
  a lot of that type of stuff and it really applied
• 47:48
  and it really helped me Come back and understand
• 47:53
  like oh this is this is actually what I need
• 47:56
  to do Not some crazy magical formula and trying
• 47:59
  to figure all out healing. It's it's it's some
• 48:02
  of the most simple practices. It's hard like
• 48:06
  we talked about because your brain and your body
• 48:10
  are in that heightened state, the alarms are
• 48:13
  going off, the symptoms are flying and everything
• 48:16
  is uncomfortable. But when you do something simple
• 48:19
  like coming back to the present moment and letting
• 48:22
  your thoughts just kind of go off on their own
• 48:24
  and just being the conscious observer, the witness
• 48:26
  of like, okay, these thoughts are going. Thanks
• 48:29
  brain, you know, that's where you can kind of
• 48:31
  use like a, you know, a thing that I learned
• 48:35
  even from like ACT teachings is like, hey, thanks
• 48:38
  brain. I'm not, I'm not going to follow you down
• 48:40
  that path. I appreciate you trying to protect
• 48:43
  me, get me to follow this story. And then you
• 48:46
  just come back to focusing on the present moment,
• 48:48
  mindfulness activities, and these practices ultimately
• 48:52
  what build or what building safety. And like,
• 48:55
  like I said, there's so many ways to do it, whether
• 48:57
  it's physical. You know or whether it's just
• 48:59
  simply doing these orienting practices. You can
• 49:02
  like sit there and just feel your body sitting
• 49:05
  where you are um focus on Being out in nature
• 49:10
  like I always tell people too I don't know about
• 49:12
  you like It is so hard to heal in the four walls
• 49:15
  of your house because this is where you can get
• 49:16
  caught more up in in your brain And everything
• 49:19
  is so familiar That you know you need to be out
• 49:23
  Even if it's in your front yard backyard I used
• 49:26
  to I used to lay in the front yard. Uh, when
• 49:30
  I, when I got really in, I still love trauma
• 49:32
  work. When I was in trauma work, but I was so
• 49:35
  sensitized that, um, that's not what my system
• 49:38
  needed. I'm going to go back and talk a little
• 49:40
  bit about dysregulated sensitize in a minute,
• 49:42
  but I was getting blown out of my socks doing
• 49:46
  shock trauma work and early developmental trauma
• 49:49
  work when my system just needed to accept and
• 49:52
  allow. And I would just, that's what I would
• 49:54
  do the whole world around me. Got dark. I don't
• 49:58
  mean that metaphorically. I mean that literally,
• 50:02
  like the lights turned off and my system was
• 50:04
  so in collapse that all I could do, and that's
• 50:08
  where if you've done too much trauma work, if
• 50:10
  you're in this state, you're just learning, maybe
• 50:13
  you don't have a routine yet, going to the lane
• 50:15
  in the yard, grounding, earthing, drinking clean
• 50:18
  water, electrolytes, good food, watching funny
• 50:22
  movies, letting go of the healing process. It's
• 50:25
  not doing more. Exactly. Honestly, dude, one
• 50:29
  of the best things that I did for my healing
• 50:32
  when I was in that collapsed nervous system state,
• 50:36
  I would just go to a park. I didn't care if it
• 50:39
  was middle of winter, 30, 40 degrees out or it
• 50:42
  was hot out. I would just go there and I would
• 50:45
  sit at a park. in the grass for hours. Yeah,
• 50:49
  it was like one of the only things where I just
• 50:51
  shut out all technology or I would listen to
• 50:54
  like relaxing stuff or I would just be be present
• 50:57
  at the park. And that was like all I could do.
• 51:00
  You know, and that was some of the best things
• 51:02
  that I did for my nervous system early on was
• 51:04
  just that your nervous system likes boring. Yeah.
• 51:09
  Petitive shit. Not. But here's the thing, too.
• 51:14
  This is the ultimate red pill this work is. Because
• 51:17
  you're gonna wake up and see why you're so damn
• 51:20
  dysregulated, sensitized. Well, it's society
• 51:23
  and it's created to control you, to put you in
• 51:26
  constant stress through stimulation, through
• 51:28
  lack, through victim mentality, poison food,
• 51:31
  poison water, over lights, fake lights, fake
• 51:34
  environments, bullshit, you gotta make money,
• 51:36
  you gotta be productive, social media, pharmaceuticals
• 51:40
  to... shut the symptoms up like it's a it's a
• 51:43
  motherfucker to see it all right and like that
• 51:46
  is why a big part of why your nervous system
• 51:48
  is dysregulated on top of whatever circumstances
• 51:52
  and conditioning that you have from childhood
• 51:54
  that's telling you that you got to work harder
• 51:57
  and effort and put a lot of pressure on yourself
• 52:00
  um to heal and it's like yeah dude sitting going
• 52:04
  to nature like our ancestors They didn't work
• 52:07
  hard. They didn't even exercise. You know, they
• 52:11
  had to go hunt food when they wanted to. They
• 52:13
  grew some food and they, you know, hopefully
• 52:16
  didn't have to go to war, right? Like it was
• 52:18
  so much simpler. And now we have all this stimulation
• 52:22
  and I love, I just keep going back to that. It
• 52:25
  makes so much sense. The heel flip thing, because
• 52:28
  it's like, yeah, flip it on its head, dude. Killing
• 52:30
  is not what you think it is. It actually is causing
• 52:33
  more dysregulation and sitting in the park is
• 52:35
  probably one of the best things you can do. Exactly.
• 52:38
  I tell all of like my clients and the people
• 52:40
  I work with, I'm like, dude, you need to get
• 52:41
  the hell outside like every day. Every day, you
• 52:45
  know, it's going to be so healthy for you. It's
• 52:48
  going to be some of the best things that you
• 52:50
  can do for your nervous system. Just being outside
• 52:53
  in nature. And I sound like a hippie, you know
• 52:56
  what I mean? Be a hippie, man. Be a hippie. Whatever
• 52:58
  that means. Going out in nature, so be it. You
• 53:02
  know what I mean? Like that's one of the best
• 53:03
  things you can do. Exactly. Exactly. And yeah,
• 53:06
  I just, you know, it's everyone wants to make
• 53:09
  healing complicated. It's it really doesn't.
• 53:12
  And I want to go back to what you were saying,
• 53:14
  too, because when you get these chronic illnesses
• 53:17
  and these symptoms, eventually you're going to
• 53:21
  wake up. You know it's gonna it forces you to
• 53:24
  wake the hell up to everything in life that is
• 53:27
  contributing to keeping you stuck in sick and
• 53:30
  you get a choice. Eventually to choose differently
• 53:35
  and that's part of healing like instead of you
• 53:39
  know clicking on the news and watching all the
• 53:41
  things that are going wrong in the world it's
• 53:43
  like you turn that off and you you know. talk
• 53:45
  to your neighbor, you know, because it actually
• 53:48
  makes your nervous system feel better. Like...
• 53:51
  Ventral vagal, baby, social engagement. That's
• 53:53
  one of the best things that I can do for my nervous
• 53:55
  system. Being on the podcast and just talking
• 53:57
  about things I'm interested in, I thought I was
• 54:00
  like trying to get more information on how to
• 54:02
  heal and it ended up being just connecting with
• 54:04
  people that are like yourself that have been
• 54:06
  through what I've been through. And then realizing
• 54:08
  I just want to help people and ultimately let
• 54:12
  go of healing. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so when
• 54:17
  your nervous system is so dysregulated, it's
• 54:20
  like, you know, before you get sick, your nervous
• 54:24
  system is always kind of telling you, like giving
• 54:27
  you hints and clues through stress, through stress
• 54:29
  hormones and stuff like that. But we just kind
• 54:32
  of ignore the clues. But when you're so sensitized,
• 54:35
  dysregulated, when all of your symptoms are in
• 54:38
  your face, you get like Window into like these
• 54:41
  little micro changes based off of what you what
• 54:44
  you think what you what? Actions you you know
• 54:48
  you do your beliefs your behaviors that give
• 54:51
  you clues is like not here or like yes go go
• 54:55
  in this direction so like you know, it's people
• 55:00
  people don't really pay attention to this, but
• 55:02
  it's like you may be Working a job that is just
• 55:07
  draining Draining your energy and you'll feel
• 55:10
  it when you're working your job and like that
• 55:12
  could be part of like your healing as well as
• 55:15
  like All right. Well, this is like draining my
• 55:19
  nervous system energy and like making me feel
• 55:21
  worse Maybe it's part of me exploring Something
• 55:26
  new it doesn't mean you have to like quit your
• 55:28
  job and just go live in the woods But exploring
• 55:31
  something new and understand asking yourself
• 55:33
  like why is this draining me? Maybe it's maybe
• 55:35
  I need to also set a boundary with my what my
• 55:38
  work, you know that I haven't done You know and
• 55:41
  ask for help, you know, it might not just be
• 55:43
  leaving the job It might be like things like
• 55:45
  that. That's what I've had to had to do is I've
• 55:48
  healed multiple times You know healed and relapsed
• 55:51
  multiple times. It's like it's it, you know requires
• 55:55
  some looking at all right This is making me feel
• 55:58
  like shit. You know, why not? Why is this making
• 56:01
  me feel like shit from a uh, is it lime or is
• 56:05
  it mold or whatever but like This is making me
• 56:07
  feel like shit because i'm engaging with some
• 56:09
  like maybe some toxicity or not setting boundaries
• 56:13
  or maybe i'm having people pleasing or Maybe
• 56:15
  i'm just living out of alignment or maybe i'm
• 56:17
  putting like you said bad shit in my body. This
• 56:20
  is where I also, you know, I don't just tell
• 56:24
  people to do a few silly practices and go back
• 56:27
  to their old life. I'm like, dude, you're, you're
• 56:29
  going to heal and create a new life that is going
• 56:31
  to support health for the rest of your life.
• 56:34
  And that does include nutrition. That does include
• 56:37
  movement. Like I don't see people healing that
• 56:40
  just like do some brain retraining practices
• 56:43
  and go back to their old life. And if they do,
• 56:45
  they often end up relapsing. And that's what
• 56:47
  I did. You know, I, I, I healed. Then I started
• 56:51
  going back to unhealthy lifestyle stress, not
• 56:54
  doing the right things for my body. And then
• 56:56
  obviously COVID four years ago is what caused
• 57:00
  me to relapse. And that's where, um, it was like,
• 57:04
  Oh, okay. Like I have to start practicing a lot
• 57:07
  of the things that I preached. and did years
• 57:10
  prior that I forgot and shift my lifestyle again.
• 57:14
  You know, it's not about going back. It's about
• 57:16
  going forward in a healthier way and doing some
• 57:21
  of the right things, letting go of a lot of the
• 57:23
  wrong things. And that includes lifestyle practices
• 57:27
  and habits. Yeah, because and I totally agree.
• 57:31
  And when I echo you on. trauma and this type
• 57:35
  of nervous system dysregulation happens when
• 57:38
  we're not congruent with ourself. And then all
• 57:41
  these survival responses get in. So we're perfect,
• 57:44
  people pleasing, intellectualization, all or
• 57:47
  nothing, blah, blah, blah. And I agree with you
• 57:50
  too, that healing is about checking the boxes,
• 57:55
  if you will. Love a movement practice, love clean
• 57:58
  eating, love social engagement and friends and
• 58:02
  following um you know getting clear on values
• 58:06
  and doing things that you love and I get what
• 58:09
  I've even noticed in myself this is probably
• 58:11
  more a personal question um is like I was I had
• 58:16
  this story I think the first time I had anxiety,
• 58:20
  I worked with a coach and he brought me this
• 58:23
  thing that said I was gluten intolerant. He brought
• 58:26
  me a six pack of gluten -free beer. I used to
• 58:28
  grow hops and brew my own beer. Love beer. Love
• 58:31
  having beer with boys, right? Same, same. I like
• 58:33
  that more than getting drunk. I think I liked
• 58:37
  getting drunk in college. And now it's like,
• 58:40
  I just want to have a couple beers with the guys.
• 58:42
  I love me a Guinness. And so he came to me and
• 58:45
  he said, hey, here's your gluten -free beer.
• 58:47
  And I connected that with, this is why you have
• 58:49
  anxiety. And now I need to be perfect. So I went
• 58:52
  into perfect diet, perfect food, perfect routine,
• 58:56
  control, and then change. So I'd keep myself
• 59:00
  in this loop. And as I'm healing and coming out
• 59:06
  of that, I'm doing life again. And I'm having
• 59:08
  pizza, I'm having beer. It's really more of like
• 59:11
  a... 80 -20 thing for me. I'm super dialed in
• 59:14
  and then I fuck off 20 % of the time and those
• 59:18
  beliefs that I gotta be perfect, they come up
• 59:22
  and I've learned that this last couple weeks,
• 59:25
  my system would just go into this construction
• 59:28
  because I'm not being perfect. Am I really hurting
• 59:30
  my body if I'm having a couple beers and then
• 59:32
  some pizza? And so the question is, how do we
• 59:36
  do these healthy routines without going back
• 59:40
  into the survival response of all or nothing,
• 59:42
  black or white, is that something you've experienced
• 59:44
  or dealt with? Yeah, yeah, I've experienced it
• 59:46
  a lot too. I've experienced it a lot too. It's
• 59:49
  a balance. And I think for me, it's a shift out
• 59:53
  of fear into self love. So, you know, I was just
• 59:59
  like you. I love. Alcohol, you know, I love beer
• 1:00:03
  specifically and loves like whiskey not just
• 1:00:05
  to like get drunk But it was a it was a pleasure
• 1:00:07
  thing that I had and now you know it went overboard
• 1:00:11
  though as well when I when I kind of Wish was
• 1:00:15
  getting sick again, you know I was kind of engaging
• 1:00:18
  in behaviors that I knew were not loving to myself
• 1:00:24
  For me was when I was working back as like an
• 1:00:28
  art director and I was using like alcohol as
• 1:00:31
  like A distraction as a coping mechanism as something
• 1:00:38
  to do that I knew was not supporting my health
• 1:00:41
  overall So I don't necessarily think like having
• 1:00:44
  a beer or anything like that is not is gonna
• 1:00:46
  make anyone sick But it's also the energy and
• 1:00:50
  what you you come about it, you know, so You
• 1:00:54
  because because here's the deal you can do things
• 1:00:57
  that are bringing you joy, but also Harming your
• 1:01:00
  body at the same time like I said like bringing
• 1:01:02
  out drinking alcohol. I was having fun I was
• 1:01:05
  drinking and having fun with my friends it was
• 1:01:07
  also harming my body at the same time because
• 1:01:09
  alcohol is a toxin and you know, I was Filling
• 1:01:15
  my body with poison, but I also I was also engaging
• 1:01:19
  in a lot of stressful behaviors. So it's a kind
• 1:01:22
  of combination effect that happens with a lot
• 1:01:25
  of people. It's not like, A, because you ate
• 1:01:29
  that pizza, it's gonna make you sick, or you
• 1:01:32
  drink that alcohol, it's gonna make you sick.
• 1:01:34
  It's like, because you're engaging in people
• 1:01:36
  -pleasing behaviors, plus you're in that stressful
• 1:01:39
  environment. Plus you're doing all of these,
• 1:01:43
  or you're staying sedentary or you're doing these
• 1:01:46
  toxic behaviors. Now you're eating pizza plus
• 1:01:49
  drinking. It's just like your cup finally overflows.
• 1:01:53
  And that's the thing. It's almost like you're
• 1:01:54
  mashing. You're using it as a tool to numb out
• 1:01:59
  and feel comfortable in an uncomfortable situation
• 1:02:02
  versus like meeting your body and expressing
• 1:02:06
  that. working with that energy sounds like it's
• 1:02:10
  the intention behind it. It's the intention behind
• 1:02:13
  it. Yeah. And understanding what actually fuels
• 1:02:19
  fuels health and healing. Like again, occasionally
• 1:02:23
  I have like a glass of wine. I was just in New
• 1:02:25
  York last week with my friend and we were at
• 1:02:28
  a wedding. I had a glass of wine then, but I
• 1:02:31
  didn't have a glass of wine to get drunk. You
• 1:02:33
  know, a glass of wine because I'm like, hey,
• 1:02:36
  you know what? It's my friend's wedding. It's
• 1:02:37
  not that big of a deal. There was no panic or
• 1:02:41
  stress over drinking a little bit. And like I
• 1:02:47
  said, it's that energy of fear versus love. What
• 1:02:52
  I will say is, for a lot of people that are struggling
• 1:02:56
  with complete nervous system shutdown, I do tell
• 1:03:01
  people, you gotta cut the shit out for a while.
• 1:03:06
  Because I know for me, when I tried to drink,
• 1:03:10
  when my nervous system was like in collapse,
• 1:03:12
  it would just make me so much sicker. I feel
• 1:03:15
  you on that too, yeah. And that wasn't loving
• 1:03:18
  to my body at that time. That was actually almost
• 1:03:21
  like, again, a coping mechanism, a way to escape
• 1:03:24
  or check out. I want to escape these feelings,
• 1:03:27
  make them go away, even if it's just for a little
• 1:03:30
  bit of time. And then for me, what would happen
• 1:03:32
  back then, because I quit drinking for many years.
• 1:03:36
  Like you said, it's great to have a Guinness
• 1:03:37
  now, but I'd wake up at two o 'clock in the morning,
• 1:03:40
  you know my I mean I would say neuroplastic symptoms
• 1:03:44
  too like I was afraid of this thing and I would
• 1:03:47
  Try to feel comfortable in like a social situation
• 1:03:50
  Maybe I felt like I didn't belong because of
• 1:03:52
  my symptoms and so now I kind of goes into your
• 1:03:55
  example of stacking all of these stressors into
• 1:04:00
  making the glass of wine very stressful versus
• 1:04:02
  like It's like unless I'm trying to disconnect
• 1:04:05
  versus I'm trying to connect. Yeah. Yeah Exactly.
• 1:04:08
  What's my intention here? Am I trying to like
• 1:04:09
  we went on vacation last week. My family's wife,
• 1:04:13
  my wife's family loves to drink and we got after
• 1:04:16
  it a couple nights. It was like so different
• 1:04:19
  because I connected with everybody individually.
• 1:04:22
  We had a good time. We laughed. We got along.
• 1:04:24
  Where is in the past years ago, I would be drinking
• 1:04:28
  to feel more comfortable for them not to get
• 1:04:30
  on my nerves or whatever I felt about cover up
• 1:04:33
  how I was feeling. And it is very different than
• 1:04:37
  what it used to be. Exactly. And that's the difference.
• 1:04:40
  It's the energy behind it. With everything healing
• 1:04:44
  wise, it's the energy behind it. Are you healing
• 1:04:47
  from a lens of fear? Or are you doing it from
• 1:04:51
  a lens of love? And that's the thing, even with
• 1:04:55
  diet, nutrition. I'm big on nutrition. I'm big
• 1:04:58
  on fueling the body in the right way. But you
• 1:05:02
  can have, and even Joe Dispenser said this, You
• 1:05:04
  can eat the perfect diet and still be just as
• 1:05:08
  sick, have all the gut issues, because a lot
• 1:05:11
  of people will do the perfect diet from a lens
• 1:05:14
  of fear. I have to do this to heal. If I don't
• 1:05:17
  eat all of this perfect diet, I'm not going to
• 1:05:22
  heal. That energy will never help you heal. But
• 1:05:27
  the way I look at diet and the way I look at
• 1:05:30
  nutrition is like, I'm going to fuel my body
• 1:05:34
  with the right stuff so that I live a long, healthy
• 1:05:38
  life because I enjoy feeling good in my body.
• 1:05:42
  And I actually, yeah. After 20 years of feeling
• 1:05:45
  like shit, you damn right. And I enjoy, when
• 1:05:49
  I eat something, it making me feel good versus
• 1:05:52
  making me feel bad. And this is what I was saying
• 1:05:55
  with nervous system dysregulation, chronic illness.
• 1:05:58
  Your body will tell you if this is supporting
• 1:06:01
  your healing or not. If I were to go eat some
• 1:06:05
  shitty fast food like I did in the past, I would
• 1:06:11
  be okay. It wouldn't necessarily... derail my
• 1:06:15
  healing or whatever but I'm probably pretty sure
• 1:06:19
  it would make me feel like shit and yeah you'd
• 1:06:22
  get that quick dopamine hit from like all of
• 1:06:24
  the you know that they make their food chemically
• 1:06:27
  addictive so it's gonna make you feel good while
• 1:06:30
  you're while you're eating it but then afterwards
• 1:06:32
  I probably feel sluggish I probably feel awful
• 1:06:35
  I probably feel a little bit worse it's not like
• 1:06:37
  it would make me have a full -blown relapse and
• 1:06:39
  my body would probably be able to handle But
• 1:06:41
  I'm like, no, I would rather eat something that
• 1:06:45
  makes me feel good, that is going to support
• 1:06:47
  my health and healing. And not only that, you
• 1:06:52
  know, you know all this stuff, too. Like nutrition
• 1:06:55
  here in the US is just the worst, man. Like they
• 1:06:59
  poison the food to get people addicted, to make
• 1:07:03
  people sick and all of that. You know, I I don't
• 1:07:08
  I don't even come at it from a lens of fear,
• 1:07:10
  but there is just like look man There's with
• 1:07:14
  everything that i've learned with my own health
• 1:07:16
  journey how how healing and health is so fragile
• 1:07:21
  and even which is what I learned getting my masters
• 1:07:24
  in nutrition just like how much lifestyle shifts
• 1:07:28
  diet nutrition really contribute to Poor lifestyle
• 1:07:32
  factors whether it's like diabetes heart disease
• 1:07:35
  hypertension and cancers all of this stuff That's
• 1:07:38
  stuff that I learned and it's like truth in fact
• 1:07:40
  that I'm like It's not just fear. It's like look
• 1:07:44
  dude. I'm not I'm gonna I'm gonna put the right
• 1:07:46
  shit in my body to help my body heal and Occasional
• 1:07:50
  thing is like not a big deal. You know, it's
• 1:07:52
  not a big deal It's about being conscious and
• 1:07:54
  aware like of what is beneficial and then choosing
• 1:07:57
  more of that more of that. Absolutely. Yeah,
• 1:08:01
  I agree 100%. I mean, the perfection and control
• 1:08:06
  and then shaming, if I didn't do that, was a
• 1:08:10
  big part of mine. And I think at either, I saw
• 1:08:13
  this really good post yesterday, it's talking,
• 1:08:15
  Brian Johnson's getting lit up right now on social
• 1:08:18
  media. I don't know if you're seeing it. You
• 1:08:19
  know what I'm talking about, Brian? No, I don't
• 1:08:21
  know who Brian Johnson is. Tip of the spear.
• 1:08:24
  biohacker guy he looks like a damn vampire and
• 1:08:28
  thinks the Sun is bad and he got his biomarkers
• 1:08:32
  and all perfect and Go search for it when you
• 1:08:37
  go. Okay. I'll look basically on one side is
• 1:08:40
  this crazy restriction and perfection on the
• 1:08:44
  other side is like gluttony and, you know, being
• 1:08:48
  drunk all the time and smoking weed all day long
• 1:08:52
  or, you know, eating fast food and all that.
• 1:08:54
  And I think it's somewhere in the middle. And
• 1:08:57
  I think still middle is probably 80, 20 for me.
• 1:09:00
  I don't remember the last time I had fast food,
• 1:09:05
  but I love a cold beer. I love I don't know,
• 1:09:10
  what would be unhealthy? Maybe ice cream. Ice
• 1:09:12
  cream can be pretty gross in some ways, but it's
• 1:09:16
  like, it all goes back to your values and your
• 1:09:18
  intention and what feels good. I think for me,
• 1:09:21
  it's somewhere in the middle of balance, of enjoying
• 1:09:25
  your life and then using your values to reinforce
• 1:09:28
  that. I mean, using what we've learned over the
• 1:09:32
  years about nature. I mean, if you're eating
• 1:09:34
  food on the outside of the grocery store or eating
• 1:09:36
  in a local farm, if you can grow it, you can
• 1:09:38
  kill it. Yep. That's it. Drink some clean water,
• 1:09:42
  put some electrolytes in there, sleep, social
• 1:09:45
  engagement. I mean, it's not that hard. It's
• 1:09:48
  so simple. We become so disconnected from what
• 1:09:52
  we need. And I think, too, when we use our awareness
• 1:09:58
  of our nervous system to our advantage and we
• 1:10:01
  can really follow our impulse on what feels good
• 1:10:04
  and move away from what doesn't and limit what
• 1:10:07
  doesn't feel good, That's the magic sauce. It's
• 1:10:10
  like our superpower of scanning our body, of
• 1:10:13
  being so damn aware. It can be used as a good
• 1:10:17
  thing and letting go of that. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:10:23
  I agree. It's letting go of the fear. Letting
• 1:10:27
  go of the fear and letting go of the hypervigilance
• 1:10:31
  around... you know symptom checking body scanning
• 1:10:34
  everyone does that it becomes an ingrained behavior
• 1:10:36
  especially when you're chronically ill you have
• 1:10:38
  to let go of that but that doesn't mean then
• 1:10:40
  now just you know uh live in the clouds and don't
• 1:10:44
  pay attention to your body it's you know it's
• 1:10:46
  also your body's giving you clues as to what
• 1:10:48
  what changes need to be made in life um and and
• 1:10:53
  listening to those and just doing the right things
• 1:10:55
  and it's all the combination of that and then
• 1:10:58
  again letting go Letting go, you know, your body,
• 1:11:03
  your body. That's one of the first things I talk
• 1:11:05
  about my clients about is like eating healthy,
• 1:11:07
  not some. Well, I guess we can have more of a
• 1:11:09
  specialized diet for somebody that's really in
• 1:11:11
  symptoms. Yeah, it's like, dude, I mean, eat
• 1:11:16
  good food, move your body, you know, hang out
• 1:11:19
  with friends. And but we're just so disconnected
• 1:11:22
  from it. We don't even know what to eat. And
• 1:11:24
  yeah, we have is. You know, it's horrible, man.
• 1:11:29
  Exactly. Yeah, it is You know in some ways you
• 1:11:33
  can be grateful for and I'm grateful for the
• 1:11:37
  chronic illness and everything that happened
• 1:11:39
  because I I think like it stepped in in a way
• 1:11:43
  for me to make Yeah, it steps in a way for you
• 1:11:50
  to make some changes in your life like again
• 1:11:52
  before I got sick When I was 21, I smoked cigarettes,
• 1:11:55
  I drank four to five nights a week, like, you
• 1:11:57
  know, like, you know, drank a lot like to drunk
• 1:12:01
  blackout. I didn't care about things in life.
• 1:12:04
  I engaged in so many toxic behaviors to myself
• 1:12:08
  and just like all of that stuff that, you know,
• 1:12:11
  the chronic illness comes and slaps you in the
• 1:12:13
  face and all the symptoms and it's like, holy
• 1:12:15
  shit, I need to make some changes. And then you
• 1:12:17
  you make changes that are beneficial for yourself.
• 1:12:20
  And now Like I said, I'm more mindful. I care
• 1:12:23
  about things that I took for granted before I
• 1:12:26
  stopped, you know, doing the poor lifestyle things
• 1:12:31
  like drinking and smoking cigarettes, you know,
• 1:12:34
  obsessively and all of that stuff. And I stopped,
• 1:12:36
  you know, engaging all of those toxic traits
• 1:12:40
  and whatever. And it's been a journey, but it's
• 1:12:43
  been ultimately a journey that has led me to
• 1:12:46
  better health than I even thought I could get
• 1:12:48
  after all of these chronic symptoms. Like I'm
• 1:12:51
  42 years old now and I feel no different than
• 1:12:54
  I did before I got sick, you know, and I'm like.
• 1:12:58
  I thought that when I was 42, especially after
• 1:13:01
  having all of these chronic symptoms and this
• 1:13:04
  chronic illness, that my body would break down
• 1:13:07
  in all of these ways, especially when I was in
• 1:13:09
  the midst of the chronic illness and I felt like
• 1:13:11
  I was 80 years old. Having all of these symptoms,
• 1:13:15
  I was like, I don't know how I'm ever going to
• 1:13:17
  get back to that. That was a big fear that I
• 1:13:19
  had all the time. What's it going to be like
• 1:13:20
  when I get older if it sucks? If I'm at 25 years
• 1:13:24
  old and our timelines are pretty closely together.
• 1:13:28
  If I'm 40, if I feel like this much shit at 20,
• 1:13:34
  25 years old, what is 40, 50, 60, 70? Am I gonna
• 1:13:37
  even make it? Yeah, exactly. Thought the same
• 1:13:41
  thing I like I'm you know I'm like out here going
• 1:13:44
  to the skate park at 42 after 20 years of dealing
• 1:13:47
  with Chronic illness still being able skateboard
• 1:13:50
  like I'm in my you know 20s and I'm like I didn't
• 1:13:52
  even think I was possible like so the human body
• 1:13:56
  really is a Miraculous healing machine incapable
• 1:13:59
  of healing from all of these things I've seen
• 1:14:01
  so many people go from like being bed down on
• 1:14:05
  their deathbed to like living better than they
• 1:14:09
  did before they got sick. I was in the bed five
• 1:14:13
  days a week a year ago. Yeah. You know, it's
• 1:14:16
  insane. And I was trying so hard and I let that
• 1:14:18
  stuff go. Here's a question before we go into
• 1:14:22
  talking about your community and how you help
• 1:14:24
  people. I have one last kind of question. Kind
• 1:14:28
  of like an unpack thing. And it's going back
• 1:14:31
  to it's something I've been thinking about a
• 1:14:33
  lot as I have gotten more into I mean, dude,
• 1:14:36
  I've been in all the spaces, right? Lately I've
• 1:14:39
  found more of the brain retraining stuff and
• 1:14:42
  I've blended that into what I do. I like you,
• 1:14:45
  I don't love all of it, but the accepting and
• 1:14:48
  the allowing, that's it. Do what you love, follow,
• 1:14:50
  get your, the things that you believe in what
• 1:14:54
  I'm trying to say, get your values and start
• 1:14:57
  doing life again, right? And accept and allow
• 1:14:59
  symptoms. But going back to the conversation
• 1:15:03
  about dysregulation and sensitization, I see
• 1:15:07
  the way that we approach in different ways and
• 1:15:11
  then it changes in season is what I'm thinking.
• 1:15:14
  I'm just curious what your thoughts. You don't
• 1:15:16
  have to agree with me, obviously. Yeah. But I
• 1:15:19
  think they're very similar, sensitization and
• 1:15:22
  dysregulation. I think sensitization needs to
• 1:15:26
  be treated a little bit differently, in the beginning
• 1:15:29
  especially, because if we try to go do trauma
• 1:15:32
  work, to regulate our nervous system. That's
• 1:15:35
  going to reinforce all the OCD and it's going
• 1:15:38
  to be outside of capacity. It's going to blow
• 1:15:40
  you out of your socks. And what I ended up doing
• 1:15:42
  was shaming myself of why am I not getting better.
• 1:15:46
  Okay. And so at that time, what really, which
• 1:15:50
  I've heard your routine of some of it. And I
• 1:15:53
  certainly had a routine as well. When I was sensitized,
• 1:15:56
  I let go trying to heal trauma. And I went into
• 1:15:58
  my routine. What am I? I'll go walk in the morning.
• 1:16:01
  I would do now practices. I would learn to take
• 1:16:05
  my somatic background and I'd express what's
• 1:16:07
  in my body. And that built safety. I started
• 1:16:12
  to trust what's going on. And now I've got to
• 1:16:15
  this place. And this is only six months, a year
• 1:16:17
  later where I feel like routines. Before I say
• 1:16:23
  this, when we're sensitized, routine is pivotal.
• 1:16:28
  When we move, maybe I would say I'm 80 % out
• 1:16:31
  of sensitization right now. 75, something like
• 1:16:34
  that. It almost becomes the routine becomes the
• 1:16:37
  OCD thing. To me, it feels like I'm giving a
• 1:16:40
  lot of time to sensations. I'm still trying to
• 1:16:45
  fix myself. And I think the final boss is to
• 1:16:49
  let go. And what I teach my clients is, yeah,
• 1:16:51
  when symptoms come back and they're tough, maybe
• 1:16:54
  we do do a little bit of symptom stuff. Maybe
• 1:16:56
  I do work with a client in a session and we do
• 1:16:59
  brain stuff. We work with the beliefs. We work
• 1:17:01
  with the sensations. We go into the body and
• 1:17:04
  that's a process. But it feels like the more
• 1:17:06
  I do that, the more I focus on a symptom instead
• 1:17:10
  of just letting it be there and doing my life,
• 1:17:12
  it reinforces it. How do you feel about routines
• 1:17:16
  and letting go as you process? Made more progress
• 1:17:19
  with this. Yeah. Well, I want to go back to the
• 1:17:22
  first thing about the dysregulation and sensitization.
• 1:17:26
  You know, I'm friends with some of the people
• 1:17:28
  that really kind of that really talk about sensitization.
• 1:17:31
  I honestly, it logically all makes sense and
• 1:17:34
  everything like that. But we don't heal through
• 1:17:38
  logic. So you can know all the things that you
• 1:17:42
  want to know and and feel like this is what you
• 1:17:45
  do to heal. I don't think there's there's truthfully
• 1:17:48
  a difference with either of them. And I don't
• 1:17:51
  think that there's a difference in healing with,
• 1:17:55
  you know, going through the lens of either of
• 1:17:58
  them. I don't think I don't. I don't look at
• 1:18:02
  trauma in the same way that people do. And again,
• 1:18:06
  I'm not a therapist. I'm not a psychologist.
• 1:18:08
  I've worked with a lot of therapists. I actually
• 1:18:10
  have someone that's in my group that is a very
• 1:18:13
  well -known therapist. But I look at trauma from
• 1:18:18
  a different lens. And I don't know if you know
• 1:18:21
  of like Dr. Gabor Mate. You know him? Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:25
  Yeah, so trauma is not there to be figured out.
• 1:18:28
  It's there to be felt. So, um, regardless of
• 1:18:31
  where you say, did you say not figured out to
• 1:18:33
  be felt? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, a lot
• 1:18:36
  of people think, and this is why I don't agree
• 1:18:38
  with a lot of like the brain retraining practices
• 1:18:40
  and programs is because they, there's a layer
• 1:18:43
  of like, you know, trauma work that they want
• 1:18:45
  to want to do. And it's, they, they want to come
• 1:18:48
  at it from a, the lens of being in your head.
• 1:18:50
  Whereas someone like Dr. Gabor Maté and a lot
• 1:18:53
  of people, um struggle with is feeling feeling
• 1:18:56
  the sensations of you know in your body and processing
• 1:19:01
  them and letting them naturally release over
• 1:19:04
  time and when you're highly in that dysregulated
• 1:19:07
  state what you're what is usually i think coming
• 1:19:10
  to the surface is a lot of that repressed Trauma
• 1:19:14
  now is finally but it's so freaking loud and
• 1:19:18
  it's already all what it's doing is just asking
• 1:19:20
  you Can you just allow this to be there feel
• 1:19:22
  it release it and move forward and that's what
• 1:19:25
  I that's truly what I believe in I don't think
• 1:19:28
  it's there to be figured out of like going into
• 1:19:32
  the past and like, this is what's going, this
• 1:19:35
  is what happens. Yeah, re -traumatizing yourself.
• 1:19:38
  I don't agree with that. What I needed to do
• 1:19:42
  is I needed to allow myself to feel. Just allow
• 1:19:46
  myself to feel. When I would, you know, when
• 1:19:49
  I would feel anger, anxiety. Depression when
• 1:19:53
  I was very young I wouldn't allow myself to feel
• 1:19:55
  that you know I would suppress it and what I
• 1:19:58
  needed to do was when it came up is Allow myself
• 1:20:01
  to feel it and not judge it or shame myself or
• 1:20:05
  thinking that needs to be gone and feel it from
• 1:20:10
  like a Somatic sense and this is different than
• 1:20:13
  body scanning for symptoms and fearing symptoms,
• 1:20:16
  but like when anxiety arises, you know sometimes
• 1:20:20
  Not always, but sometimes you need to just feel
• 1:20:24
  the sensations, whether it's the knots in the
• 1:20:27
  stomach and just let them be there. This is where
• 1:20:29
  accept and allow and all of that stuff works.
• 1:20:32
  And that's the same thing, whether it's... dysregulation
• 1:20:35
  or sensitization, I think that's been a big part
• 1:20:39
  of my journey in actually healing and getting
• 1:20:41
  past it. And that's when I talk about accepting
• 1:20:44
  and allowing and all that stuff. That's part
• 1:20:46
  of it. It's like going into the body, out of
• 1:20:49
  the brain, into the body, feeling what needs
• 1:20:52
  to be felt and trusting that the body has the
• 1:20:55
  wisdom to release it over time and it does on
• 1:20:59
  its own. It's hard work, though. It's not comfortable.
• 1:21:05
  It is hard. It takes capacity. It takes capacity.
• 1:21:06
  It takes capacity, and it takes just allowing
• 1:21:13
  yourself to give yourself some space to feel
• 1:21:17
  this stuff. When we can trust the wave of activation
• 1:21:21
  as it comes up, and we find out that it's like
• 1:21:25
  a two -minute ride, if I can just be with my
• 1:21:27
  body, I think what I did for a long time, so
• 1:21:30
  I love what you're saying, is that activation
• 1:21:32
  would start to come up and all this knowledge
• 1:21:35
  would kick in and go, what do I do with this?
• 1:21:38
  It would feel really scary. And I heard stories
• 1:21:41
  about horrible shit happening when trauma started
• 1:21:44
  moving, right? And it's almost like I would resist.
• 1:21:49
  that natural movement, and it would go back into
• 1:21:53
  the system, which I think feels worse than, well,
• 1:21:55
  way worse than letting it go, but almost worse
• 1:21:57
  than the symptom where we started. And I learned
• 1:21:59
  that if I can just, I learned this from Simona.
• 1:22:03
  Do you know Simona? Yeah, yeah. She helped me
• 1:22:06
  like, yeah, just be with it. Like, it's almost
• 1:22:08
  like you just go into some inner child work type
• 1:22:11
  stuff. And like, you're like, hey, I know this
• 1:22:13
  sucks. I'm right here with you, brother. Yeah.
• 1:22:15
  I'm not going anywhere. And when I did that,
• 1:22:17
  it's like the first time I hit that peak and
• 1:22:19
  move through the other side. And it's like, oh
• 1:22:22
  my God, I got to come back in to a window of
• 1:22:25
  tolerance. I got to deactivate whatever was moving.
• 1:22:28
  I don't need to figure it out. I don't need to
• 1:22:30
  do it perfect. I don't need to know what to do.
• 1:22:33
  But if I can just follow my body and my impulse
• 1:22:36
  and let it express itself, let the tears come.
• 1:22:41
  Let the shaking come. Let the good and fucking
• 1:22:43
  piss come. Yeah. That's what it wants. It's not
• 1:22:47
  we don't need I love what you're saying because
• 1:22:49
  so easy to go big. Let me go to page 35 where
• 1:22:53
  it says what happens when my body starts shaking.
• 1:22:56
  Well, yeah, that's what happened for Lisa. Right.
• 1:22:59
  But like this is mentioned his body and this
• 1:23:01
  is part of accepting allowing leads to self -trust.
• 1:23:06
  Exactly. Let the body complete whatever shit
• 1:23:08
  it wants to bring up. Exactly. And that's the
• 1:23:12
  healing journey in a nutshell. This is where
• 1:23:15
  you don't have to go into inner child healing.
• 1:23:18
  The body's gonna express, especially as your
• 1:23:21
  capacity builds and as you do all these things,
• 1:23:25
  the body's gonna express trauma through the body.
• 1:23:28
  And this is where you're gonna get triggered.
• 1:23:32
  Stress is gonna come up and you're gonna get
• 1:23:34
  triggered. And now it's just like, all right,
• 1:23:36
  now I understand that this is... this is what's
• 1:23:39
  going on and that's it. I don't need to figure
• 1:23:41
  it out. I just need to feel it, allow it to be
• 1:23:44
  here, move through it in a better way versus
• 1:23:47
  judge, shame, suppress, all of these things.
• 1:23:51
  And that's what I think like part of the thing
• 1:23:52
  that I've learned more actually this so part
• 1:23:57
  of like, you know, getting that relapse after
• 1:24:01
  after COVID was that was this layer of healing
• 1:24:03
  that although I did, it was part of my healing.
• 1:24:07
  when I was sick the first time with chronic Lyme
• 1:24:10
  I and I allowed myself to feel somatically and
• 1:24:14
  all of this stuff. I didn't really quite understand
• 1:24:19
  it and I didn't I think I still would occasionally
• 1:24:23
  like suppress and all of that stuff or just ignore
• 1:24:25
  just ignore and now this time around I'm like
• 1:24:30
  okay this is what still kind of going in my own
• 1:24:33
  in my body these triggers are coming up, you
• 1:24:36
  know for a reason it's not because I did something
• 1:24:39
  wrong or there's something wrong with my body.
• 1:24:41
  It's just like these things come up because there's,
• 1:24:44
  there is trauma stored in the body, in the nervous
• 1:24:47
  system. And, um, it's just about now handling
• 1:24:50
  it in a, in a different way when it comes up,
• 1:24:53
  not shaming myself being terrified of it. Yeah.
• 1:24:58
  And that's the difference. You know, that's what
• 1:25:00
  I, that's sort of what I feel. But going back
• 1:25:04
  to your original question, I kind of forget what
• 1:25:07
  we were talking about. There's something about
• 1:25:10
  letting go or whatever. Oh no, routines. And
• 1:25:13
  towards the end, do we maintain a routine that
• 1:25:16
  we do every day? Do we do it when they come up?
• 1:25:20
  Is there a period, is there a time to let go
• 1:25:22
  of healing? I feel like that's the final boss.
• 1:25:26
  This is a question that I don't really kind of
• 1:25:31
  know the correct answer to, and what I will say
• 1:25:34
  is I still do a routine every single day that
• 1:25:38
  is beneficial for me, but I don't do it to try
• 1:25:42
  to heal myself. I do it because it's, like I
• 1:25:45
  said, it's acting through self -love. So every
• 1:25:50
  day, and I've done this for years, You know,
• 1:25:53
  I meditate every day. I do things like heart
• 1:25:56
  -brain coherence meditations every day. I do
• 1:25:58
  visualization. I do movement practices. I have
• 1:26:02
  my journal that I write in every day, gratitude
• 1:26:05
  and affirmations and all that stuff. But if I
• 1:26:08
  miss it, it's not like, hey, I beat myself up
• 1:26:12
  or anything like that. And I just think it's
• 1:26:15
  something that is beneficial for me every day.
• 1:26:18
  Because here's what I will say. Don't need to
• 1:26:22
  do these routines really. I mean honestly, I
• 1:26:25
  live a normal life but life happens and and things
• 1:26:32
  happen in life and We can always go back into
• 1:26:37
  that automatic default program that is hardwired
• 1:26:41
  and pretty much all humans and it's that stress
• 1:26:45
  fear loop that can can always happen if something
• 1:26:49
  Tread tragic, you know trauma happens in your
• 1:26:52
  life. You can get caught up in depression You
• 1:26:56
  know anxiety fear worry panic and all of these
• 1:26:59
  things and in that negativity bias in your brain,
• 1:27:02
  which is like Again, why is this happening? What
• 1:27:05
  is going wrong with me all of this stuff? So
• 1:27:08
  i'm not saying that I do this so so that if things
• 1:27:11
  come up, you know i'm prepared for it, but I
• 1:27:14
  do it because you know It's an act of self -love.
• 1:27:19
  It's giving myself time every day where I do
• 1:27:22
  things that are beneficial for my mental health,
• 1:27:26
  my physical health, my spiritual health, and
• 1:27:28
  my overall emotional well -being. And I do it
• 1:27:33
  because I care about myself. I want to support
• 1:27:37
  my body, and I don't want to... Again, we can
• 1:27:40
  get caught up into that negativity all throughout
• 1:27:42
  the day if we're sometimes not careful. And so
• 1:27:47
  that's why I do it. I don't ever tell anyone
• 1:27:50
  that there's like, oh my god, you got to do this
• 1:27:51
  for the rest of your life or you're going to
• 1:27:53
  relapse or whatever. I don't know. I wish I had
• 1:27:56
  an answer for you. I don't think anyone knows.
• 1:27:59
  I think everyone's made up in a different way.
• 1:28:04
  Some people, you know, need these type of things.
• 1:28:10
  And it's almost like how they're hardwired. You
• 1:28:13
  know, again, like some people almost structure
• 1:28:15
  to their structure is good for them. I don't
• 1:28:17
  like structure for me is is good. But I also
• 1:28:20
  need like flexibility within that structure.
• 1:28:23
  Spontaneous. I can't say it's spontaneous. Exactly.
• 1:28:27
  So like every day my routine is just a little
• 1:28:30
  bit different. You know, I do some of the same
• 1:28:32
  things. But I give myself flexibility within
• 1:28:35
  it to change. And if I go on vacation or if I,
• 1:28:39
  you know, I'm doing something or I'm busy and
• 1:28:42
  if I miss, you know, a day or I'm really loose
• 1:28:45
  with it for a week or two, it's it's whatever.
• 1:28:48
  I just come I just I've built this foundation
• 1:28:50
  that I always come back to the things that are
• 1:28:52
  beneficial for me. And so that's what I try to
• 1:28:55
  get people to do. But what I will say is, you
• 1:28:59
  know, especially early on. You know, people really
• 1:29:02
  struggle with this because it's it's these routines,
• 1:29:05
  you know, you have to build up that habit. And
• 1:29:08
  now, like now that I've built up that habit because
• 1:29:11
  I've been doing it for years and it didn't take
• 1:29:13
  years to do. It didn't take me doing it for years
• 1:29:16
  to have built up that habit. Like within a few
• 1:29:18
  months, I've built up that habit that it's just
• 1:29:21
  like it's like brushing my teeth. You know, it's
• 1:29:23
  like taking a shower where I don't ever feel
• 1:29:25
  resistance to doing it. Sometimes early on, you
• 1:29:28
  feel resistance to doing it. But it's not because
• 1:29:30
  it's not It's you don't it's not good for you
• 1:29:33
  or anything. It's because it's foreign. So it's
• 1:29:36
  like doing anything new, you know, until you
• 1:29:39
  build that like routine, it's going to feel uncomfortable
• 1:29:43
  and you're there is going to be resistance. But
• 1:29:45
  once you kind of. work through that resistance
• 1:29:48
  and build up new habits, then you don't have
• 1:29:51
  it anymore. There's never a time where I'm just
• 1:29:53
  like, oh, I don't want to do this meditation.
• 1:29:57
  And if you did, you could give yourself permission
• 1:29:59
  to pick it up, put it down, to change it. There's
• 1:30:01
  something different. I think that's what I hear
• 1:30:03
  is like, you've found things that are supportive
• 1:30:07
  to you, that aren't fixing, that aren't dependent
• 1:30:09
  on your well -being. But things that give you
• 1:30:12
  energy, give you life. I have things that I do
• 1:30:14
  like that as well. And it's like, instead of
• 1:30:17
  holding ourselves hostage, pointing a gun to
• 1:30:19
  our head and saying you do this or die. It's
• 1:30:22
  like, I like this shit. Yeah, I like it too.
• 1:30:24
  Like after this, you know, it's sunny out here.
• 1:30:26
  I'm going to go probably to the beach. I'm gonna
• 1:30:29
  do probably like a quick little heart, brain,
• 1:30:32
  and coherence meditation, read a book, listen
• 1:30:34
  to some music, and it's all because I like to
• 1:30:37
  do it. It's not because I don't, or it's because
• 1:30:41
  I feel like if I don't do it, I'm gonna be sick
• 1:30:43
  again. It's just like I like to do it. It's energy
• 1:30:46
  giving, so. It's helpful to say that as someone
• 1:30:49
  like, I feel like I'm a little bit behind you
• 1:30:51
  and looking up and going like, hey man, like.
• 1:30:53
  Not that I'm behind you, that sounds negative,
• 1:30:55
  but you're looking forward to someone who's made
• 1:30:58
  a lot of progress and I've seen what's possible
• 1:31:00
  with this work in a year and somebody that's
• 1:31:02
  been doing it. How long have you been doing it?
• 1:31:05
  I know you've been doing it for 20 years, but
• 1:31:07
  I'm saying this more... Yes, so... I did it for
• 1:31:12
  years when I first got better and then I let
• 1:31:16
  it go, all go, and I was healthy for many years.
• 1:31:20
  When I relapsed with long COVID, so that was
• 1:31:23
  beginning of 2021. It probably took me like six
• 1:31:27
  months or whatever to get back into this work.
• 1:31:29
  So I guess I've been doing it for like three,
• 1:31:31
  three and a half years now. But I will say, the
• 1:31:38
  first The first year, like from when I started
• 1:31:43
  to a year after that, my life was completely
• 1:31:48
  changed. And I always tell people that I work
• 1:31:53
  with or that join my class or whatever to not
• 1:31:56
  look like a month from now when they start or
• 1:31:59
  even three months, but look a year. Because that's
• 1:32:04
  real hard. Yeah, I call it the Amazon Prime of
• 1:32:07
  healing like we won't Yeah, but a year is Realistic
• 1:32:12
  it's realistic like kind of I don't know if you
• 1:32:15
  were saying helmet said like three years but
• 1:32:17
  like Maybe but I will say if but I will say in
• 1:32:22
  a year if you start And this time next year,
• 1:32:28
  if you started something today when you listen
• 1:32:30
  to this and you're consistent for a year, not
• 1:32:32
  through force and fear and fixing like, again,
• 1:32:35
  some of these other programs will get you to
• 1:32:37
  do, but through the lens of acceptance, surrender
• 1:32:40
  and all that, and shifting your lifestyle, a
• 1:32:43
  year from today, you could be in a completely
• 1:32:45
  different state. When I relapsed with long COVID,
• 1:32:50
  And I was bettering and sick, couldn't work,
• 1:32:52
  you know, and was struggling just to get through
• 1:32:54
  a day. A year from that time when I started,
• 1:32:59
  I was back to working full -time. I was back
• 1:33:01
  at the gym three to four times a week. I was
• 1:33:04
  again, engaging in all the hobbies that I wanted
• 1:33:07
  to do, skateboarding, going and seeing friends,
• 1:33:09
  concerts. I still had symptoms. Didn't mean all
• 1:33:12
  of my symptoms were completely gone. Symptoms
• 1:33:14
  were way more manageable and it wasn't... Um
• 1:33:20
  just pushing through I actually had joy again.
• 1:33:22
  I had happiness I was able to live life now I
• 1:33:25
  still had went through the ups and downs and
• 1:33:27
  there were times where I was like, oh this is
• 1:33:30
  This is a rough week, you know But it wasn't
• 1:33:33
  like I wasn't capable of handling it or it made
• 1:33:36
  me had to like lay in bed It was just like I
• 1:33:39
  just had to manage the symptoms of manage my
• 1:33:42
  response to the symptoms Yeah, yeah, that's how
• 1:33:46
  we judge healing guys. Yeah Not necessarily the
• 1:33:49
  symptoms getting better, but how am I responding
• 1:33:51
  to it when I play? Yeah, exactly. Yep, yep. This
• 1:33:56
  has been incredible chatting to you. Kind of
• 1:33:58
  funny thing for you to know is I had this kind
• 1:34:01
  of similar thing. It was lime, mold, heavy metals,
• 1:34:05
  metabolic issues, some improvement, starting
• 1:34:09
  to come out of the woods, and then a car accident,
• 1:34:14
  long haul COVID three years in a row. Geez. And
• 1:34:17
  so I would get like my, I could not eat after
• 1:34:21
  the front went down to 140 pounds. My gut was
• 1:34:24
  just like, I think long haul COVID to me feels
• 1:34:27
  more like, kind of like we were talking about
• 1:34:31
  lime. I think it just added a lot to my stress
• 1:34:34
  bucket and put me into a collapsed state. And
• 1:34:36
  every time I would heal for that for three years,
• 1:34:38
  it would be something else. Um, and our timelines
• 1:34:41
  are so close. It's hilarious. So it's always
• 1:34:45
  great connecting with another dude, especially
• 1:34:47
  doing this work and who's overcome so much and
• 1:34:51
  now helping other people. Um, before we hop off,
• 1:34:54
  tell us, tell us about your community, your program
• 1:34:57
  and how people can find you. Yeah, so Heelflip,
• 1:35:00
  like I said, is my program. It's sort of my passion
• 1:35:05
  for doing what I do. So I have my main program,
• 1:35:11
  which is called Heal Club, and I work with people
• 1:35:14
  all over the world. We have between 30 and 40
• 1:35:17
  people in the class right now. And it's a true
• 1:35:21
  community and group program. So for people that
• 1:35:25
  are trying to heal, doing this work, you're often
• 1:35:28
  left on your own. You might have a community,
• 1:35:30
  but it's not really a community. The one thing
• 1:35:33
  that I wanted to create was an actual community
• 1:35:36
  where people get to know one another, where I'm
• 1:35:39
  actively involved in helping people and getting
• 1:35:42
  people to the other side of chronic illness and
• 1:35:45
  where people aren't alone. And I teach all of
• 1:35:48
  these principles of things that we talk about,
• 1:35:51
  ACT, acceptance, surrender, and then lifestyle
• 1:35:54
  shifts. And it's all within the lens of nervous
• 1:35:58
  system practices and all that. So I teach people
• 1:36:01
  that have done over, I don't even know, 500 Zoom
• 1:36:04
  calls over the last three plus years. And it's
• 1:36:09
  not like the other Zoom group coaching things
• 1:36:14
  where it's like Q &A. That's not how I run it.
• 1:36:18
  Every Zoom call that I do is completely different.
• 1:36:21
  We do interactive practices and activities. People
• 1:36:25
  are able to ask questions and I will answer I
• 1:36:28
  talk on a specific topic every call that is different
• 1:36:31
  I kind of take pulse of where the group is at
• 1:36:34
  Sometimes I'm talking specifically like on acceptance
• 1:36:37
  practices and acceptance. Sometimes it's on overcoming
• 1:36:40
  fear Sometimes it's like on visualization or
• 1:36:44
  diet or movement or whatever and every call has
• 1:36:47
  been different It has we also have, you know
• 1:36:50
  private whatsapp chat where people engage talk
• 1:36:53
  every day, accountability partners, all of that.
• 1:36:55
  So that's my main thing. And then I work with
• 1:36:58
  people one -on -one within the community and
• 1:37:01
  then select a few. people that are outside of
• 1:37:04
  the community. I'll do one -on -ones with. And
• 1:37:08
  then I have free support. I have my free nervous
• 1:37:11
  system guide, which you can get on my website,
• 1:37:14
  heal -flip. It's H -E -A -L -flip .com. Again,
• 1:37:19
  it's just a quick little guide that can get you
• 1:37:21
  started on nervous system healing that gives
• 1:37:24
  you a simple routine. that you can start today.
• 1:37:28
  And then I have more in depth guides, my heel
• 1:37:32
  flip manual, which is a more in depth guide surrounded
• 1:37:35
  around. ACT and lifestyle changes, and then I
• 1:37:39
  have my gut health guide for people that are
• 1:37:41
  really struggling with gut health that does talk
• 1:37:45
  about more in depth about nutrition, diet, recipes,
• 1:37:48
  and all of that stuff that can help you. So I
• 1:37:51
  have multi levels of support. I make it all really
• 1:37:54
  cost effective and affordable, man. I don't know
• 1:37:56
  about you. The one thing that really pisses me
• 1:37:59
  off is there are like millionaires in this space,
• 1:38:02
  bro, that are making so much money off of people
• 1:38:08
  and charging a fortune and really not providing
• 1:38:14
  much healing. It's just they just they got a
• 1:38:17
  marketing team and a marketing. Yeah, it's they
• 1:38:21
  just they just sold a sold a dream and had a
• 1:38:24
  good marketing team and business coach. And,
• 1:38:29
  you know, that really bothers me. So I want to
• 1:38:31
  see people see people heal, you know, with having
• 1:38:36
  multi layers of affordable, you know, programs
• 1:38:39
  and support. So Um, that's about it, man. Uh,
• 1:38:42
  I uh, if you guys have any questions, you know,
• 1:38:44
  i'm active on instagram tiktok youtube all heel
• 1:38:49
  flip, um Different on most platforms. I think
• 1:38:53
  it's underscore heel flip on youtube heel dash
• 1:38:56
  flip on uh Or it's heel dash flip on youtube
• 1:39:01
  underscore heel flip on instagram and then heel
• 1:39:05
  dash flip on on tiktok Those are probably the
• 1:39:08
  three places I'm most active. Right on, brother.
• 1:39:12
  Well, dude, thank you so much. It's been fun
• 1:39:14
  chatting with you, sharing your journey of pain
• 1:39:17
  to purpose and getting that out there, trying
• 1:39:19
  to help people. I love that. We will definitely
• 1:39:23
  put your information, links to your website and
• 1:39:26
  program, social media links in the show notes.
• 1:39:31
  And people have made it this far. Thank you so
• 1:39:33
  much. Please give us a follow, a like. Leave
• 1:39:35
  us questions and comments below. Me and Joe will
• 1:39:38
  pop in. He'll be tagged on here. Joe, thanks
• 1:39:41
  so much for coming on, brother. It's been quite
• 1:39:44
  a pleasure to talk to my brother from another
• 1:39:46
  mother, it feels like. Yeah. Appreciate you having
• 1:39:49
  me, man. I feel like we could have talked for
• 1:39:51
  10 more hours on this stuff. Oh, dude. I had
• 1:39:53
  to cut it off. We'll definitely do a round two
• 1:39:57
  and three and keep supporting each other in any
• 1:40:00
  way we can, man. Thanks so much for coming on.
• 1:40:02
  Bye bye to everybody else. Peace everyone. Thanks.