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Shielding the Space Race (with Adam Rossi) | ReForge 008 · The ReForge Podcast

0:00
Adam Rossi: I mean, it's, it's so exciting to just see like new customer inquiries every week from well-funded space startups that I've never heard of, and I'm kind of pretty plugged into this industry, and it's like,"Who are you guys?
0:14
Adam Rossi: You have$250 million?
0:16
Adam Rossi: Okay, what are you doing?
0:17
Adam Rossi: You're making a nuclear battery for a, a moon, you know, settlement or..." I mean, it just, it's like there, there's so much going on right now.
0:25
Adam Rossi: It's so cool.
0:31
Welcome to the Reforge Podcast.
0:34
I'm Matthew Chang, and we're here to explore all things AI automation and the American worker proving that the American reindustrialization is possible.
0:44
Pivotal pressing.
0:45
Thanks for joining us today.
0:47
Let's get into the episode.
1:03
Adam Rossi: was-- Wow,
1:03
Colin Russ: three years running, a business owner and investor right out of Virginia Tech, so he's a Hokie.
1:10
Colin Russ: Uh, he co-founded Platinum Solutions with his wife.
1:13
Colin Russ: They scaled from a two-person startup into a 250-person company that delivered mission-critical software to law enforcement and intelligence agencies, competing with the big boys like Lockheed Martin on major contracts before a successful exit in 2010.
1:30
Colin Russ: But instead of retiring, Adam doubled down on building in America.
1:35
Colin Russ: Today, he's CEO of Total Shield, manufacturing high-performance ballistic and blast-resistant shielding for aerospace and ind- industrial customers.
1:44
Colin Russ: And he's doing so right here in the good old US of A, making critical equipment that protects facilities and people that keep the country running.
1:51
Colin Russ: He brings a hard-earned, real-world perspective on what it actually takes to re-industrialize America.
1:57
Colin Russ: Adam, welcome to the show.
1:58
Colin Russ: It's great to have us with you today.
2:00
Adam Rossi: to pat myself up
2:06
Colin Russ: Yeah, you know, I, I had to have Grok thread the needle on it a bit to make me sound a little bit better.
2:11
Matthew Chang: Dude, Adam, structural engineer.
2:14
Matthew Chang: You made your first move in software at the perfect time, and now you're back to hardcore engineering.
2:21
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean, I-- it was, uh, you know, it was crazy at Virginia Tech.
2:27
Adam Rossi: We made national news.
2:29
Adam Rossi: W- my freshman year, the requirement was all engineers had to own their own personal computer, which doesn't sound...
2:36
Adam Rossi: It sounds obvious now, but, but at that-- that was the year where it was in like USA Today, like,"College requires student to have own computer," you know?
2:47
Adam Rossi: And so I just got so into software, I started writing computer programs for, um, other engineers, stuff like designing concrete, uh, steel-reinforced retaining walls.
2:58
Adam Rossi: And it just kinda took a, a totally different direction into areas like code breaking.
3:03
Adam Rossi: But, you know, I, I was sitting in front of the computer, and you always dream about, like, making a tangible product.
3:09
Adam Rossi: And for a decade, I just thought, you know,"I wanna build something." And so when we sold the software company, um I was just like, I, I need to acquire a manufacturing company.
3:20
Adam Rossi: I mean, I, I did acquire one, divested it, acquired Total Shield five years ago, and this is the one I'm really passionate about.
3:29
Colin Russ: So, so what took you to Total Shield?
3:31
Colin Russ: Or I guess you said was not your first foray into, you know, the, the atoms, not bits world.
3:36
Colin Russ: Um, what was it that, uh, made you kind of shift?
3:40
Colin Russ: Not you, you weren't all in or weren't interested or didn't love the first thing.
3:44
Colin Russ: What made you love this?
3:45
Colin Russ: Or what, what was that like?
3:46
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll say that, um, it, it was really, uh, opportunistic in that, you know, I, I found a company for sale from a founder that had developed a bunch of material science technology out of Sandia National Lab.
4:01
Adam Rossi: Had decades of testing data, which is, for my business, kind of our crown jewels, this testing database.
4:10
Adam Rossi: And he was a guy who, you know, had, had built this company and wanted to retire.
4:15
Adam Rossi: And I liked the business because it's very, um...
4:23
Adam Rossi: I mean, the, the mode is incredible.
4:25
Adam Rossi: You know, if, if you, if you have 20 years of success in this area, uh, it, it means you're doing a lot right.
4:32
Adam Rossi: It-- never having a, a safety incidence or a failure.
4:35
Adam Rossi: Um, and, and so I liked the, the engineering side of this.
4:39
Adam Rossi: I also liked the fact that he had built an all-American supplier network.
4:43
Adam Rossi: He had, for years, just, you know,"This is my...
4:46
Adam Rossi: This is where I'm getting my extrusions.
4:47
Adam Rossi: This is where I'm get..." You know, just he, he had done all that work and was just a, a very dedicated kind of made in the USA guy.
4:56
Adam Rossi: So I, I was able to acquire that, that, um, supply chain as well.
5:01
Adam Rossi: And then this stuff is just really highly engineered.
5:04
Adam Rossi: It's big.
5:05
Adam Rossi: It's not something that you would generally think is gonna be kind of pressured by imports.
5:10
Adam Rossi: And so there's just a bunch of things I liked about it, but those are kind of the high level ones.
5:14
Colin Russ: the experience been like since you, you know, took over Total Shield?
5:19
Colin Russ: Obviously, you know, when you're coming in with a founder, takeover from a founder who has that deep background, you know, you talk Sandia, I mean, that's huge.
5:28
Colin Russ: Not like you said, giant moat.
5:30
Colin Russ: What has that been like over the last five years?
5:33
Colin Russ: You know, the learning curve, you know, helping to kind of shift to your priorities and what you wanna see from it.
5:39
Adam Rossi: than I thought, just like everything is.
5:41
Adam Rossi: I mean, it took, uh...
5:43
Adam Rossi: We, we thought it would take a year to transition kind of all the knowledge and, and specialized, you know, calculations and things that, uh, Keith had developed.
5:52
Adam Rossi: It actually took everybody two years, and luckily we really liked working with each other, and he stayed on, um, as a consultant, uh, right up until, unfortunately, he just passed away, um, at the end of last year.
6:06
Adam Rossi: So we, we had the, you know, a good working relationship, but, you know, transitioning that stuff just takes so much time, and there's so many special cases and You know, we'll have like a SpaceX or someone come to us and they'll say, you know, we, we have this concern about acoustic and overpressure and, and, you know, you've, you've, you've worked with Keith on one or the other, but combining them all, he's like,"Oh yeah, you know, we did that 15 years ago for so and so.
6:31
Adam Rossi: You need to look at these files." And so it was just...
6:34
Adam Rossi: it was really, really hard.
6:36
Adam Rossi: The other thing that, um, you know, it's, it's taken more investment than I thought in terms of plant and equipment.
6:42
Adam Rossi: I mean, I feel like every time we make some money, we're just buying another, you know, piece of automation or something, uh, and, and moving it in here in, in Gainesville, Virginia.
6:54
Adam Rossi: And so even just...
6:56
Adam Rossi: Matt, you and I have talked offline about this, the lead times on some of this stuff can be like eight months, nine months for like a, a piece of like a robotic Kevlar sew we're, we're buying.
7:05
Adam Rossi: So it's-- I would also say it's just, it's been generally slower than I like.
7:09
Adam Rossi: You know, you're just kinda like,"I wanna d- I wanna get this now.
7:12
Adam Rossi: Like, get it." It's like,"Well, we're, we've got you on the list, and we'll deliver that in nine months."
7:16
Matthew Chang: The good news for you, Adam, is that, uh, Colin and I are going all in on this ten-year bull run prediction.
7:23
Matthew Chang: So these five years of slogging it with the knowledge transfer, the old files, I mean, that's up your mind.
7:29
Matthew Chang: Our company's old enough now that we have old files,
7:31
Adam Rossi: Yeah.
7:32
Matthew Chang: "How do we find those?" Does anybody remember?
7:36
Matthew Chang: And, uh, and then also these, these lead time issues, it sounds to me, following Total Shield, like you're tooled up for the next stage of growth.
7:46
Adam Rossi: Yeah, no, I mean, I, I'm also in complete agreement on this, this kind of bull run.
7:52
Adam Rossi: I think, um, that this is durable.
7:55
Adam Rossi: I'm glad that we've made the investments that we have.
7:58
Adam Rossi: I also feel like the good thing about our business is it is very oriented towards space right now, which I'm, I'm obviously thrilled to be, you know, watching Artemis land.
8:11
Adam Rossi: And I mean, just, you know, like I-I...
8:13
Adam Rossi: we, we're just very fortunate.
8:15
Adam Rossi: When Keith first started the business, a lot of his customers were energy, oil and gas, um, traditional aerospace, but not really space.
8:22
Adam Rossi: This was something that he never really could anticipate.
8:26
Adam Rossi: Who would've?
8:27
Adam Rossi: You know, back 20 years ago, space was just a dead end, right?
8:30
Adam Rossi: And so I feel really good about being positioned i-in that industry as well, because we are seeing...
8:37
Adam Rossi: I mean, it's, it's so exciting to just see like new customer inquiries every week from well-funded space startups that I've never heard of, and I'm kind of pretty plugged into this industry, and it's like,"Who are you guys?
8:51
Adam Rossi: You have$250 million?
8:53
Adam Rossi: Okay, what are you doing?
8:54
Adam Rossi: You're making a nuclear battery for a, a moon, you know, settlement or..." I mean, it just, it's like there, there's so much going on right now.
9:02
Adam Rossi: It's so cool.
9:04
Colin Russ: So, I mean, that's awesome.
9:07
Colin Russ: Obviously, just perspective you have, you're kind of on that bleeding edge of it where you're seeing the things that here's what they're gonna build, here's what they're, they're gonna work on before everyone else sees those big press releases.
9:17
Colin Russ: So I mean, that's...
9:18
Colin Russ: Obviously, I'm jealous in that respect because I geek out over the space stuff.
9:21
Colin Russ: I mean, when I watched, was it SpaceX actually catch Starship with the chopsticks, uh, my-- I audibly said a couple holy, you know, words after that just in awe.
9:34
Colin Russ: So I mean, I, I can't imagine some of the things that, you know, you've gotten to hear about and probably can't talk about.
9:40
Colin Russ: But obviously, you know, you mentioned space is a big growing spot for you guys, big, big sector.
9:46
Colin Russ: Um, what is it that y- I mean, in addition to all these startups, what, what does that mean to you?
9:52
Colin Russ: I mean, s- being able to really contribute to kind of that next era, the Artemis era, as Isaacman said.
9:59
Adam Rossi: I, I mean, I think the United States is well-positioned and will dominate space.
10:05
Adam Rossi: And it's something that I think people don't appreciate because we had such a drought for so long.
10:11
Adam Rossi: But, you know, if-- I, I mean, we were just...
10:14
Adam Rossi: I was talking to, uh, uh, a couple friends over the weekend, you know, just what Starlink, for example, is, is doing potentially to disrupt, like, every cell tower, you know, that you see, uh, planted along the side of the road as you're driving down the road.
10:31
Adam Rossi: I mean, space is so important for defense, communication, you know, potentially manufacturing and compute in the future.
10:40
Adam Rossi: And wh-whichever country dominates space, I think is positioning itself for the next, you know, 100 years.
10:49
Adam Rossi: And I feel really good about what the United States is doing.
10:51
Adam Rossi: I mean, you know, we, uh...
10:56
Adam Rossi: I-- When Artemis was, was taking off, uh, my son and his friend happened to be, like, walking through the kitchen.
11:02
Adam Rossi: I said,"Guys, get over here and watch this." And I said,"Do you know how many countries have sent a man to orbit the moon before?" And they said,"Uh, two, three, you know, United States, Russia." I was like,"No, one, and we're about to do it again." Like, we dominate space, and, you know, luckily we're back on track to, I think, thoroughly dominating space.
11:22
Adam Rossi: If we have a manned, uh, base on the moon, for example, um, I think that would be an awesome next bet- step for us as a country.
11:31
Matthew Chang: Yeah.
11:32
Matthew Chang: I, I couldn't agree more.
11:34
Matthew Chang: Can we get the share screen up?
11:35
Matthew Chang: 'Cause I wanna look at the product.
11:38
Matthew Chang: And Adam, if you could give us a voiceover.
11:40
Matthew Chang: So we, we saw Artemis, we saw, we saw SpaceX catch the Starship with the chopsticks, like those are the breakthroughs.
11:47
Matthew Chang: There's obviously lots of lesser space activity that's not headline grabbing.
11:51
Matthew Chang: How does Total Shield work with that industry?
11:54
Adam Rossi: So one of the things...
11:56
Adam Rossi: You know, the, the largest selling products for us are, are what you see that, in that shielding room right there.
12:02
Adam Rossi: Um, every Um, every satellite, for example, um, that has to maintain an orbit has a high-pressure tank of fuel on it.
12:16
Adam Rossi: And so, uh, typically they're made of a, um, a, a composite, and they're pumping up these tanks to a giant amount of pressure, essentially creating a, a pneumatic bomb.
12:29
Adam Rossi: And the, um, testing those, proof testing them is exceedingly dangerous.
12:36
Adam Rossi: So for example, we have a customer that has a kind of city bus-sized satellite with three of these fuel tanks, um, kind of inserted into this thing.
12:49
Adam Rossi: They're putting that into one of our shielding rooms and proof testing it, so bringing it up to a certain PSI and bringing it back down and getting it ready, and they're, they're gonna be sending a ton of these into orbit.
13:01
Adam Rossi: And so the, the tempo of this is they're-- You know, imagine a thirty-five-foot room square, giant tall ceiling, huge door that opens up.
13:11
Adam Rossi: This thing goes in, the doors close, pressure test, take it back down.
13:17
Adam Rossi: Um, you know, that's something where to contain the TNT equivalent of if all the, all three of those tanks failed, we had to develop a primary containment of a specialized kind of Kevlar mini room, if you will, uh, with all these layers of Kevlar sewn in a strategic way with venting for overpressure, with bolts, bolt downs.
13:42
Adam Rossi: That goes around the thing, and then this giant room made out of, uh, uh, aluminum, steel, polycarbonate, uh, AR500 armor.
13:53
Adam Rossi: I, I mean, the, this, this giant room is kind of the secondary containment for that.
13:58
Adam Rossi: And so that's kind of an extreme example of what we do, but a lot of it involves either the testing of a tank, a motor, um, high-speed centrifuge that might fly off, uh, or putting like a, a satellite on a spin disk to find the center of gravity and make sure that stuff doesn't fly off when it's sent up into space.
14:20
Adam Rossi: So it's stuff like that, that a lot of it is kind of in a production facility and test related that's our bread and butter.
14:28
Adam Rossi: I mean, we also do stuff that's actually on the vehicle.
14:31
Adam Rossi: Um, a lot of it's defense-oriented, where it's, you know, has to do with kind of the nozzle cone and, and that stuff.
14:37
Adam Rossi: But without even getting into all that,'cause it's a smaller portion of our work, um, what you're seeing there is
14:44
Matthew Chang: this then, Adam.
14:44
Matthew Chang: So, so if I look at this, this is a, a mini version of the big thirty-five foot square you described, right?
14:51
Matthew Chang: So you've got-- We, we looked at the Kevlar earlier, so you've got some Kevlar jacketing in here that's like your, your initial containment.
14:59
Matthew Chang: Uh, you build this blast-proof, it's called ballistic room that can-- that has an engineered pressure rating, right?
15:06
Matthew Chang: Does it also have a missile rating in case a part shoots off or is it just pressure?
15:11
Adam Rossi: It does.
15:11
Adam Rossi: Um, usually, uh, we have the c-combination, and if you think about, like, a COBV tank rupturing, fragments of that are flying out.
15:20
Adam Rossi: There's probably, like, pressure gauges and things that get shot out, and those are absolutely, uh, concerns as well.
15:27
Adam Rossi: There's also the acoustic I mentioned, where people are working around this in a certain decibel, you know, c- it'll blast their eardrums out if it's too loud, so we have to kinda sound deaden those rooms as well.
15:38
Matthew Chang: So you can go into a client site.
15:40
Matthew Chang: Does this install directly on the concrete floor?
15:43
Matthew Chang: I see a bunch
15:43
Adam Rossi: does.
15:44
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean, it, it bolts into the floor and, um, you and I were talking offline about that seismic stuff.
15:50
Adam Rossi: Um, you know, we also have to...
15:54
Adam Rossi: We, we just went through that process with a, a structural engineer in
15:57
Matthew Chang: Yeah, so you are part of the building then.
15:59
Matthew Chang: And
15:59
Adam Rossi: part of the building.
16:00
Matthew Chang: then on top, it looks like you've got your own air supply.
16:03
Matthew Chang: Is that what's happening up here?
16:06
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean, they'll...
16:07
Adam Rossi: A lot of times we'll tie into existing kind of, uh, uh, venting that will allow, like, uh, noxious gases and things to, to, to quickly vent out of the room.
16:17
Adam Rossi: Um, or just sometimes it's just for fresh air for people that are working in there or whatever.
16:23
Matthew Chang: Yeah.
16:24
Matthew Chang: So that's what the customers are buying, and you build it to spec.
16:28
Matthew Chang: They tell you the size of the operation.
16:30
Matthew Chang: They say,"Hey, we might blow up a tank," or,"We're gonna do something high heat or with a, a gas emission, um, some sort of volatile compound." You come back with an engineered recommendation using this twenty-plus years of Total Shield development.
16:44
Matthew Chang: And the supply chain is, is it all American or is it mostly American?
16:49
Adam Rossi: It's all American, and, you know, the reason, um, uh, we can't-- Not that we can't.
16:55
Adam Rossi: The reason we won't use foreign suppliers is the threat of material substitution for us is something that we just can't tolerate.
17:02
Adam Rossi: And so, you know, if we had a, a, a grade of steel that was mismarked and, and not, you know, to the strength that we're buying, if we had, for example...
17:13
Adam Rossi: I mean, we get all the time.
17:14
Adam Rossi: Y-the, the major suppliers of, uh, uh, polycarbonate, for example, armor-grade polycarbonate, um, there are two in the United States, and they both are very trustworthy, right?
17:25
Adam Rossi: They're not gonna substitute a resin or a, a coating.
17:29
Adam Rossi: I mean, y-you know what you're getting.
17:31
Adam Rossi: Um, we get pitched all the time from foreign suppliers, and it's like, look, the, the, the sample they're giving us is okay, but if, if there's a defect in that stuff, you know, and we have a failure, we just saved, you know, 25% on it, it wasn't worth it.
17:45
Adam Rossi: I mean, reputationally, Total Field Care-
17:49
Colin Russ: traceability
17:49
Adam Rossi: Correct.
17:50
Adam Rossi: So every-- I mean, we're, we're buying from, uh, all the Kevlar, polycarbonate, steel, aluminum.
17:57
Adam Rossi: You know, we have relationships with, uh, uh, metal mills up in, um, New Jersey, Philadelphia, uh, our, uh, polycarbonate manufacturers in Ohio.
18:09
Adam Rossi: Um, you know, our supply chain is 100% American down to, you know, even the bolts that we're using.
18:14
Adam Rossi: So a lot of companies will say like,"This is American-made," but, you know, w- there is no part of our...
18:22
Adam Rossi: I mean, even like the rubber gasketing we're, we're having, you know, extruded for us.
18:26
Adam Rossi: I mean, just everything we do is a US supplier.
18:30
Colin Russ: And I mean, y-you hear far too often, in my view, people saying that it can't be done.
18:37
Colin Russ: You know, that they can't for this, however.
18:38
Colin Russ: Obviously, this is a higher price item, more specialized, but the fact of the matter is you just went through, you know, a list of suppliers, different pieces, core components for how many different, you know, industries making stuff.
18:52
Colin Russ: I mean, it-- fundamentally, it is possible.
18:54
Colin Russ: It comes down to, you know, a will and desire to make sure you've got that American supplier, you have that confidence in, in the supply chain.
19:02
Colin Russ: I mean, it-- you are proof that it is possible today to build a hundred percent American-made.
19:10
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean, I, I, I will say this, there are...
19:14
Adam Rossi: It-- I, I've, I've got a lot of friends who have said,"Hey, I tried it, but I have like a specialty fastener and no one in America makes it." And I get that, right?
19:25
Adam Rossi: I mean, it's hard for a small kind of manufacturing concern to say,"Well, we can't get it.
19:30
Adam Rossi: Um, let's, let's, let's make our own fastener," for example.
19:33
Adam Rossi: I mean, that'd be a big investment of equipment.
19:36
Adam Rossi: So I don't wanna kind of get on a, a high horse and say anyone should be able to do this.
19:42
Adam Rossi: There are some things that are very challenging to get.
19:46
Adam Rossi: But what I will say is, if you are willing to travel and meet with suppliers who make something similar to what you need, but not exactly, I, I found that that opens up a lot of doors.
19:58
Adam Rossi: I, I, I've talked to folks and they've said like,"We can't make that for you.
20:01
Adam Rossi: What y- what you need is too weird or different, or the, the size is different than what we do." And I'll fly out and just meet with the owner, and it's like,"You know what?
20:10
Adam Rossi: Okay, we can do this.
20:11
Adam Rossi: Like, let's, let's figure this out.
20:13
Adam Rossi: Like, let's, uh, let's both invest in the die, whatever, um, and let's, let's, let's do this."'Cause I, I think what, what they get is a lot of BS, like RFPs and inquiries that don't result in anything, and so I think they're hesitant to say like,"Yeah, I can do that.
20:30
Adam Rossi: That's kinda weird, but I can do it for you,"'cause they get burned all the time.
20:33
Matthew Chang: Right.
20:35
Adam Rossi: man.
20:35
Adam Rossi: Like, absolutely, it's possible.
20:37
Adam Rossi: And I think when we talk about our supplier network, people are like Oh, you can still get, like, custom aluminum extrusions in Amer- It's like, of course you can.
20:47
Adam Rossi: Yeah, definitely, you know?
20:50
Matthew Chang: Yeah, we had-- we went through that on our, uh, big electric vehicle for airports, the Kodiak Tech.
20:57
Matthew Chang: We, we had a federal regulation that called out 60% made in USA, and then we wanted to be higher than that.
21:07
Matthew Chang: With automotive, you know you're not getting to 100%.
21:10
Matthew Chang: Right.
21:10
Matthew Chang: Because you, you automatically know the F150s park if Taiwan's not shipping chips, right?
21:15
Matthew Chang: So we-- Like, logically, you get like a hundred percent we're not there as a country yet.
21:21
Matthew Chang: So we just-- It was a fun experiment.
21:22
Matthew Chang: How American-made can we get?
21:25
Matthew Chang: Contrary to everybody's opinion, we sourced our battery packs in America.
21:28
Matthew Chang: We sourced all the steelwork, you know, the, the chassis, the fabrication.
21:32
Matthew Chang: Final shakeout on the bill of materials was seventy-four percent sourced from American companies.
21:38
Matthew Chang: And the biggest surprise to me that we could not source is in our hybrid model, we have a seventeen-liter, uh, diesel gen set.
21:47
Matthew Chang: Can't buy that size engine in America.
21:50
Matthew Chang: The nearest country that supplies a seventeen-liter is Mexico.
21:53
Matthew Chang: And it was heartbreaking'cause it's sold by Am-- two American companies, which you could guess the names, offer that, but they have, years ago, shipped those large format diesel plants overseas.
22:04
Matthew Chang: So you can't get-- Even though it's an American company, it's not made in the USA, and you can't get the stamp on that.
22:10
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean, that, that is the-- That, that happened with like, for example, you know, Tecumseh with their compressors.
22:18
Adam Rossi: You know, they, they, they shipped it all to either Mexico or some other country, I can't remember.
22:22
Adam Rossi: But, you know, that's the reality.
22:26
Adam Rossi: That's why when people say like,"You should be able to do 100%," I'm like,"Well, look, I mean, I think the effort needs to be there," and you clearly showed the effort to get up, you know, to, to 74% is awesome.
22:37
Adam Rossi: I mean, I...
22:37
Adam Rossi: If, if every product we were making had, you know, 10% American components, like we'd be rolling, right?
22:44
Adam Rossi: I mean...
22:47
Colin Russ: It would be...
22:48
Colin Russ: I mean, it's the goal.
22:49
Colin Russ: I think we're-- we'll get, you know, hopefully, knock on wood, we, we get there closer, you know, in the next decade as we get into this bull run.
22:56
Colin Russ: You know, obviously, you got those niche pieces that kind of The, the weird ones that you talk about, but, you know, you hit on it, I think, where a lot of it comes down to relationships.
23:04
Colin Russ: You gotta put the effort forward if you want somebody to kind of share in that risk and opportunity upside.
23:11
Colin Russ: You know, it's, it's a two-way street.
23:13
Colin Russ: Um, we're, we're gonna, we're gonna shift gears here for a second to our fun little, uh, segment, uh, where we like to ask: what was the last thing you asked AI, and what is your AI model of choice?
23:28
Adam Rossi: Uh, boy, I should just rather than try to remember.
23:32
Adam Rossi: Um, uh, my model of choice right now is Claude.
23:35
Adam Rossi: Um- Sonnet 46.
23:38
Adam Rossi: Uh, the last thing I asked it was about the OpenAI nonprofit lawsuit.
23:43
Adam Rossi: I wanted to understand that better.
23:45
Adam Rossi: I'm looking at my recents.
23:47
Adam Rossi: Um...
23:49
Matthew Chang: Giving Claude the opportunity to ne-negative sell a little bit, huh?
23:52
Adam Rossi: Exactly.
23:53
Adam Rossi: Yeah.
23:53
Adam Rossi: And it was, it was very respectful, but, you know, I, I just, I heard about the lawsuit and I wanted to know, like, what it was about and what the-- how to handicap it.
24:00
Adam Rossi: And, you know, the, the one before that was on, uh, self-heating lithium-ion batteries.
24:07
Adam Rossi: Um,
24:08
Matthew Chang: Nice.
24:09
Adam Rossi: so I'm just...
24:11
Adam Rossi: Yes.
24:12
Matthew Chang: Yeah.
24:13
Matthew Chang: You going liquid cooled or are we doing an electric cool-- electric heated?
24:17
Adam Rossi: Uh, so that was, uh, you know, I've got like an off-grid place, and I've got batteries, uh, in an underground concrete vault that don't need any temperature conditioning.
24:28
Adam Rossi: They're okay in, you know, kinda constant 55, 60-degree weather.
24:33
Adam Rossi: But I have a battery system in a tree house that I have that sits up there in the cold, and the-- I had two big lithium-ion batteries that kinda power...
24:43
Adam Rossi: I mean, this is like a luxury tree house.
24:44
Adam Rossi: It's not like a kids tree house.
24:46
Adam Rossi: And they were dying in the winter because they were
24:48
Matthew Chang: It's a turtle shield treehouse, Colin.
24:51
Colin Russ: Oh, oh yeah.
24:52
Colin Russ: Oh yeah.
24:53
Adam Rossi: And so this is a replacement for that, where I was like,"Okay, uh, let me get a battery that can maintain its own temperature." So it's, it's using some of the, the power storage for electric heating of itself, which is kinda cool.
25:07
Matthew Chang: Nice.
25:07
Colin Russ: cool.
25:08
Colin Russ: See, the, the things you can ask AI, it's, you know, uh, it's a force multiplier if you will.
25:13
Colin Russ: Makes, makes Googling much more effective'cause you don't have to do it.
25:17
Adam Rossi: Oh, absolutely.
25:19
Colin Russ: All right.
25:19
Colin Russ: So one of the things you said earlier was, um, that the previous owner f- of Total Shield had stayed on, you know, longer than you expected.
25:28
Colin Russ: You know, that knowledge transfer, it obviously very important.
25:33
Colin Russ: Also, one of the huge topics that we hear everyone say is you've got this massive retirement wave.
25:38
Colin Russ: How do we kind of retain that institutional knowledge?
25:42
Colin Russ: Took twice as long as you expected.
25:44
Colin Russ: You know, what, what was, I guess, the big-- If you were to kind of capture it as a theme of how you could more effectively or most effectively, um, you know, help kind of capture that knowledge from former owners.
25:56
Colin Russ: If you've got somebody stepping into a shop, even if it isn't quite as unique as what y'all are doing, you know, what, what was your big takeaway there that ha-- what we need to be mindful of?
26:07
Adam Rossi: I think the issue is when you have a, an, an owner that's at retirement age, a lot of times they've waited too long to document or kind of coach up the next level under them in their own organization.
26:28
Adam Rossi: Um, and they are then kind of saying,"Look, I wanna, I wanna sell the company.
26:34
Adam Rossi: I, I, I don't wanna work here for a certain number of years." Like I, I, you know, generally kind of it's a one year, you know, um, you know, retention type thing, and then, and then they're gone.
26:45
Adam Rossi: And I just think that the problem with that is if they haven't thought about, um, documenting this stuff or, or, or developing the next level of management, uh, one year maybe, but it's probable that it, you just don't know what you don't know until it comes up.
27:05
Adam Rossi: And so it, it's one of those touchy things where, you know, if it comes to buying a company, I get why the, the, the seller's kinda like,"Look, I don't know if I'm gonna like the buyer," right?
27:18
Adam Rossi: "So I'm not gonna commit to misery," right?
27:20
Adam Rossi: "I got, you know, why, why should I do it?" I, I think that's fair, and I think the way, you know, that I would handle it the next time is,"Hey, one year, you know, we should be able to, to transition this amount of stuff.
27:32
Adam Rossi: Um, and then if you like, if we like each other, it's just a, you know, year by year kinda contract going forward." But if it's highly technical and the, the owner has the ca-ca-capacity to give like a two-year transition, I think that's more realistic.
27:49
Adam Rossi: I also feel like there...
27:55
Adam Rossi: The, the promise of AI to go through a person's, you know, work files and emails and, and, and come up with, you know, written, uh, standard operating procedures and, and, and, and help them kind of...
28:10
Adam Rossi: I, I think were I to do this again, I would take a young person who is smart with AI, pair them with the exiting founder who generally does not know anything about AI, that younger person, you know, go through kind of an interview documentation cycle using AI and, and with the goal of, you know,"Hey, every week I want you guys to be working two days out of the week on, on this model that we're gonna train up with your knowledge." And I think that might be a, a way to get this down below, you know, kinda that one year magic mark.
28:46
Adam Rossi: Um, so with the
28:49
Colin Russ: I love that.
28:49
Colin Russ: That is a great, great approach to kind of incorporating AI into manufacturing.
28:55
Colin Russ: You know, I'm, I'm a skeptic of actual AI in production scenarios.
28:59
Colin Russ: I see it as a background, you know, great enabler for back office, kind of those operational pieces, but I hadn't even thought about that transition piece.
29:06
Colin Russ: I mean, that's huge opportunity there.
29:09
Adam Rossi: Yeah, I mean s-
29:10
Matthew Chang: I think part of it too is, you know, uh, Keith is your former partner, right?
29:16
Matthew Chang: Um, Keith was lucky to have Adam...
29:20
Matthew Chang: That they found each other.
29:21
Matthew Chang: We, we didn't get the story on how that match occurred, but that was lucky because you guys did work well together.
29:27
Matthew Chang: Keith did stay on for extra time, and he was probably...
29:30
Matthew Chang: Most founders of companies like that are really interested in legacy, right?
29:35
Matthew Chang: So he, his baby, he wanted to see that you had it and could take it on.
29:40
Matthew Chang: Um, I'd say, Colin, one of the challenges we-we're seeing in the, the types of companies would be all the other Keiths that don't find Adam, what do they do?
29:49
Matthew Chang: Because with so many company categories out there, especially in the private equity space, you got, you know, the HVAC, pool companies, like all accounting law firms, whatever they're rolling up.
30:00
Matthew Chang: There's kind of a playbook And after a couple years, word of mouth between founders spreads.
30:05
Matthew Chang: You know, if you own a dental office, you understand what the metrics are to get the s- the same type of exit your buddy has that sold his dental office, right?
30:13
Matthew Chang: With these manufacturing companies, Total Shield's probably prime example, there's No, marketplace.
30:19
Matthew Chang: You-- I mean, you gotta have Adam Rossi, the guy that scaled the company to two fifty, exited, did a first run at manufacturing, has the background in structural engineering so he can actually understand the words, and then wants to invest, right?
30:31
Adam Rossi: I would, I would say respectfully, Total Shield was almost untransactable, right?
30:37
Adam Rossi: I mean, a lot of people had looked at it because it had really attractive margins, and then they would start getting into it and they were like,"Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa." Like,"We're out of here, man." Like they're...
30:47
Adam Rossi: You know, bombs are going off.
30:49
Adam Rossi: There's TNT.
30:50
Adam Rossi: Like I-- we don't...
30:51
Adam Rossi: you.
30:51
Adam Rossi: know?
30:51
Adam Rossi: Like just forget it.
30:53
Adam Rossi: Yeah.
30:54
Adam Rossi: And so, you know, when I talked to, to Keith and, and his wife Marcy, you know, they had talked to a bunch of people before then, and you could tell they were just kinda like,"Ah, I don't know if this is even gonna happen.
31:06
Adam Rossi: Okay, let's have this conversation." And so, Matt, I think you're right.
31:10
Adam Rossi: I mean, I think that's, that's a concern that I have is, you know, there's so much specialized knowledge that's just about to disappear, and if they can't...
31:23
Adam Rossi: A lot of those people that are the best are also the worst at, at developing new talent.
31:30
Adam Rossi: They just haven't done it internally, and the clock is ticking.
31:33
Adam Rossi: And, uh, you know, I mean, Keith, a, you know, a lot of his stuff was, was written on paper and, you know, just, you know...
31:42
Adam Rossi: A-and,
31:42
Matthew Chang: he knew where it
31:45
Adam Rossi: knew where it was.
31:45
Adam Rossi: But, you know, just genius guy, and, and I think just the fact that I had an engineering background, he, he kinda loosened up and was like,"Okay, maybe this is gonna happen.
31:53
Adam Rossi: Maybe this is the buyer." But you know the PE playbook would, would absolutely hate this, right?
31:59
Adam Rossi: I mean, it's, it has none of the attributes that PE would want.
32:02
Matthew Chang: Custom one-off, the pivot from battery tech to space tech, like they, they hate that.
32:07
Matthew Chang: They wanna, they wanna buy a business that-- where they know the exact model, and they can just increase prices and reduce costs.
32:14
Matthew Chang: That's the PE.
32:15
Adam Rossi: Yeah, like could we outsource this?
32:16
Adam Rossi: Could we...
32:18
Matthew Chang: Yeah, you, you would have some polycarbonate from China.
32:22
Colin Russ: Que-quest-questionable long-term viability.
32:25
Colin Russ: So let's-- as, as we start to get to the end here, what's next for you?
32:30
Colin Russ: What's next for Total Shield?
32:31
Colin Russ: You know, what do you see the next five, 10 years opportunity and growth look like?
32:36
Adam Rossi: You know, I mean, it's boring to say this, but I feel like we, we've been through the transition.
32:42
Adam Rossi: We've been through kind of the, um, the rough couple years, uh, and we're now in just invest, invest, invest mode.
32:50
Adam Rossi: Um, uh, and it's just now kind of taking advantage of, of all the investments that we made over the past few years and just like there's no big difference in terms of what I would say we're going to be doing going forward.
33:06
Adam Rossi: I can say that, you know, our last year, twenty twenty-five, best year ever, we've now done more in revenue in the first quarter of this year than we did in all of twenty twenty-five.
33:15
Adam Rossi: So we're just kind of in that fun kind of like
33:18
Colin Russ: Hockey
33:19
Adam Rossi: it's going, yeah, it's, it's accelerating.
33:21
Adam Rossi: And so, you know, it's just now like just keep executing and, um, and enjoy some of the investments that we've made.
33:30
Matthew Chang: Colin, what he forgot to say was that he needs robots'cause he's gonna have to expand his capacity by, you know, double-digit percentage, so...
33:38
Colin Russ: We, we, we might know a guy for that.
33:41
Adam Rossi: You know, we were just talking about a second or third shift, which I hate.
33:45
Adam Rossi: I, I did shift work as a young person.
33:48
Adam Rossi: I would work from eleven PM till, uh, seven AM in, in a place called Double Envelope Factory in Roanoke, Virginia, where I was tired as hell and I'm, I'm operating this machine that's like chopping through, you know, ten thousand sheets of paper and right at dangerous.
34:05
Adam Rossi: There's fluorescent lights.
34:06
Adam Rossi: I felt like a vampire.
34:07
Adam Rossi: And so when they were-- my guys were like,"Maybe we should have a second shift." I was like,"Guys, we gotta, we gotta autom-- I don't wanna get into like shift work." I, I just, it's, it has such a physical toll on people.
34:19
Matthew Chang: Yeah, it's brutal.
34:22
Colin Russ: All righty.
34:23
Colin Russ: Well, Adam, thank you.
34:24
Colin Russ: This has been awesome.
34:25
Colin Russ: Um, I, I feel like we could keep going for another hour with what I'm sure is a ton of cool other stuff you're doing.
34:31
Colin Russ: But for people who wanna learn more, they wanna get in touch with you or, or wanna follow you, what's the best way for people to catch you on socials and, and online?
34:39
Adam Rossi: Yeah, it's either X, which is what I prefer,@RossiAdam, or LinkedIn.
34:44
Adam Rossi: Just search for Adam Rossi.
34:46
Colin Russ: And what's the, uh, Total Shield website?
34:49
Adam Rossi: totalshield.com.
34:51
Colin Russ: To- nice and clean,
34:52
Matthew Chang: Yeah.
34:53
Matthew Chang: Yeah.
34:53
Matthew Chang: That's worth something by itself.
34:55
Adam Rossi: You did that right for sure.
34:57
Colin Russ: keep it simple.
34:58
Colin Russ: Awesome.
34:59
Colin Russ: Well, Adam, thank you so much.
35:00
Colin Russ: Uh, we didn't even get a e- e- didn't even get a chance to get into the nunchucks, unfortunately.
35:05
Colin Russ: We'll have to have you back and get into some more of that next time.
35:08
Colin Russ: Um, but thank you so much for joining us today.
35:11
Colin Russ: This was fantastic.
35:12
Colin Russ: Um, good luck, you know, with obviously exciting next few years at Total Shield.
35:17
Colin Russ: Uh, we'll definitely have to have you back again sometime in the future.
35:20
Adam Rossi: Thanks so much for having me, guys.
35:22
Adam Rossi: It's been a blast.
35:23
Colin Russ: Thanks.
35:28
Thanks for tuning in to the Reforge Podcast.
35:31
Make sure to like, subscribe and follow us on all of our social media at the Reforge Pod.
35:36
We'll see you next time.