Latest / Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections / Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Grace Gavin and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker

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Networking Unleashed: An Interview with Grace Gavin and Michael A Forman, Professional Speaker · Networking Unleashed: Building Profitable Connections

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Do you ever notice how the smallest conversation
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can change the shape of your life if you know
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what to listen for? Welcome to Networking Unleashed,
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building profitable connections. I'm Michael
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Foreman. On this show, we don't collect business
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cards. We learn to start conversations that matter,
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create trust that lasts, and turn human moments
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into measurable value. Today's episode peels
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back the mechanics of real connection. Not tricks,
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not scripts, but the mindset that moves you and
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lets you influence, serve and grow without sounding
0:54
like a salesperson. If you want fewer awkward
0:58
small talk sessions and more conversations that
1:01
open doors, you're in the right place. Stay curious,
1:05
take one idea, use it today and watch what happens
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tomorrow. I'd like to welcome to the podcast
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Grace Gavin. She has a remarkable background,
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but I'll let her tell you her background. Grace,
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welcome to the podcast. Michael, thanks so much
1:23
for having me. I'm excited for whatever conversation
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we get into today. Good. So give us a little
1:30
bit about your background. Yeah, so I am the
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co -founder and co -author of a book and company
1:37
by the same name, No Honesty. And for those who
1:40
are listening, that's K -N -O -W, not N -O, but
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a little bit of play on words there. And what
1:45
we really focus on as an organization is changing
1:48
how the world communicates one conversation at
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a time. And I think that really plays into what
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we're going to talk about here today, especially
1:55
when it comes to networking and having those
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conversations. helping people master communication.
2:03
And how I got into that is I got a business education
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very young in my life. I grew up in a family
2:09
business. Half our kitchen table was the accounting
2:12
department. The door you walked into in the house
2:15
was also the office. So I would walk in and my
2:17
dad would be having business conversations with
2:20
our insurance broker or our seed salesman, things
2:23
like that, or with employees. We had a family
2:25
-owned dairy farm. Got an education very young
2:28
in the importance of business and networking
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and all of those pieces. And then from there,
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years later in my professional life, I partnered
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with a gentleman who's now co -author with me
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on the book, founder of the business. His name
2:41
is Ken Bogard, but we were helping teams at the
2:44
time implement EOS. And what we found, if anybody's
2:48
familiar with EOS, it's the entrepreneur operating
2:50
system. And it's this proven system for running
2:53
your business on. But what we kept finding over
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and over again is that teams would work to implement
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this proven system, thousands upon tens of thousands
3:01
of businesses running on it. But they would still
3:04
really struggle and it would be difficult to
3:07
implement this system. Things wouldn't move nearly
3:09
as quickly. And we just were like, OK, what's
3:12
going on here? What's happening? And what really
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it came down to, what we found, it was the team's
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ability or in this case, inability to communicate.
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And that was the foundation of every issue. And
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so looking at that, we said, all right, we got
3:26
to help leaders develop the skill. communication.
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Because a lot of times we think that because
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we as human beings can talk, we have words that
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we use, that we can communicate. But it's really
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a skill to be developed, especially if you want
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to be a high performing individual or high performing
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team. Which leads us into the work that I do
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today, working with teams to master communication.
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And we do that through simple, tangible, and
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implementable practices. Maybe we'll get into
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that a little bit here today, but that's the
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long and short of my background, Michael. It
4:02
sounds very apropos to what we're talking about
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today. I do workshops, I do conferences, I go
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into big businesses, and I teach networking and
4:14
communication, but... I coach the C -suite executives
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about the communication because everything rolls
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downhill. So if I teach just the people who are
4:25
doing the job one thing, but I leave the C -suite
4:28
executives alone, then they're just going to
4:31
do the same thing they've always done and they're
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not going to go anywhere. So that's just what
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I do also. Okay, so let's jump into the first
4:39
question. What first taught you that connection?
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not selling or strategy, is the real -time engine
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behind your success, and can you share one moment
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that the idea changed everything for you? Yeah,
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one moment. I think when I first started years
5:05
ago, Michael, in my professional career, I started
5:08
out going to networking events, and it was part
5:11
of my job. And I had never really been to networking
5:17
events prior to that. I was new in the professional
5:19
world. And so I showed up to these events and
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what I saw and what I thought I had to be was
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this perfect version of a business person. And
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I say that in quotes. There wasn't any. I certainly
5:32
didn't talk to you before I was there. And so
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I just thought, okay, I guess this is what we
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do. We wear the uncomfortable blazers and the
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uncomfortable shoes and we have the boring conversation
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that you know how it goes. How are you? Good.
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How are you? Good. What do you do? It was terrible.
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And I just, I didn't love them and I didn't look
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forward to them, but I had to go to them as part
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of my job. And so what I noticed was happening
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is that I would see a networking event on my
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calendar and I would get this feeling of dread.
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Oh, I do not want to go to this. And I would
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show up just in time for it starting. Some events
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have like pre -event networking. I was not there,
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not interested in that by any means. And then
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I was out of there as soon as it was done, because
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what I found is that it was exhausting for me.
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It was exhausting my energy. And I never really
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made any great business connections coming out
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of that. And so I was like, okay, I identify
6:34
as a problem solver. And I thought, this is a
6:36
problem. This is something that I know I'm going
6:38
to continue to do in my career, most likely.
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This isn't working. It's draining my energy.
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I'm not making any good business or any kind
6:47
of connections coming out of it. So what's going
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on here? And this is actually one of the practices
6:52
that I talk about and teach with my leaders.
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But what was happening for me in these networking
6:56
events is I was showing up as fake you. So fake
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you is one of our practices. And that's what
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was happening that whole time. I'm not a perfect
7:06
version of a business person. I can tell you
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that for certain, but I can also tell you that
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because it doesn't exist. There's no such thing
7:12
as perfection. But I wasn't in conversations
7:15
that I was interested in. I wasn't making genuine
7:18
connections with people. And so, of course, there
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wasn't that trust. There wasn't the connection
7:23
that needed to happen for people to really trust
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me and to do business with me. So I was like,
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okay. That was the aha. That's what was going
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on. And so I started to shift in the way that
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I showed up still in my professional attire,
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but I showed up in clothing that was comfortable,
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that I felt like I didn't have to think about
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what I was wearing. I started to ask questions
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about, okay, how did you get into this industry?
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Or what is it that drives you to do this work?
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Let them ask questions of me back in that way.
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And in that way, I could tell a full story. of
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the business that I was doing and not just a,
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here's what I do in a robot type of sense. And
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that, Michael, changed everything. Because not
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only was I making those real connections, but
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I was also enjoying myself. I was showing up
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with a much, I feel, lighter air. And people
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are more attracted to that. And they want to
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have conversations with individuals like that.
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Not the same tired, how are you? Good, good.
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What do you do? Nobody wants to do that, but
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we all default to it for some reason. That's...
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in a nutshell, what I would say to that. What
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you finally got to is your authenticity, your
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authentic self. And the way that you handle networking
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events or networking as a whole, you don't go
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in there with business in mind. It's contrary
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to popular belief. But you go in there with a
8:45
servant's heart. You go in there speaking to
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the other people about how you can solve. their
8:51
problem. Without you even saying what you are
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doing there, what your business is, you have,
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and I use something called FORM, family, occupation,
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recreation, and a message. And you pick any one
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of the above because everybody loves to talk
9:09
about themselves. And when you get the other
9:13
person to talk about themselves, you're taking
9:15
all the pressure off yourself. You can be your
9:18
authentic self and you listen to them. The father,
9:22
mother, sister, brother, aunt, uncle, son, daughter,
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whatever. Or what do you like to do? You like
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to go skiing? Oh, so do I. Like to go boating?
9:30
Oh, that's great. Like to play baseball? So do
9:32
I. Football? Yeah, so do I. Get somewhere on
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the same playing field and then talk about it.
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You shouldn't, whatever meeting you have, you
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shouldn't talk business for the first 10 minutes.
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It should be completely different. And that just
9:49
takes all the pressure off your shoulders. You
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enjoy the networking events. When I go, I'm the
9:55
first one there and I'm the last one to leave
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because I'm enjoying myself so much that I'm
10:00
talking to everybody. And we'll get into that
10:03
later on. Okay, so you often say real connection.
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How do you define it? And how can someone tell
10:13
if they're creating it? Or faking it. Yeah. So
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real, right? What we talk about is that connection,
10:21
the communication, really how we create connections
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through communication as human beings. And so
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what I emphasize with clients is it's not just
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communication for communication's sake. Because
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if a leader thinks about their... We know that
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they spend about 88 % of their weeks communicating.
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And so it's not just let's add more communication
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for communication's sake, but we want it to be
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real. We want it to be the conversations that
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change, that move the needle, that make a difference.
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And so, Michael, what we really found in our
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research when we were looking at, all right,
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communication is a skill that leaders need. This
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is how do we help them develop that? What we
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really found within there was it's two foundational
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skills of communication. And keeping it real
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simple, the two skills are open and honest. Now,
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a lot of times those two words get squished together
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and we take it to just be about ourselves. But
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they are two very different words, two very different
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skills. And so to get to that real connection,
11:20
that real communication, we need both. But we
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need to think about them completely separate
11:25
of each other. And so honesty as we define it
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is being truly and freely yourself, speaking
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into what you want and how you feel. So that's
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the authenticity piece that we already talked
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about, right? People can pick up on that pretty
11:37
quickly if you're not being authentic. It's just
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something that we can sense as human beings.
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But then on the other side of it, the question
11:44
becomes, I think it's pretty clear we all want
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to be authentic. That's the most ideal state.
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We all want to be honest. We all want to say
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what we think, how we feel, be truly and freely
11:55
ourselves. So then the question for us became,
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why doesn't that happen? What is it that holds
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us back? Why do we have to talk about? being
12:03
honest or being authentic as being the brave
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thing or being courageous when it should just,
12:08
when it should ideally just be our default. And
12:11
so what we really found in the research and what
12:14
we were looking at this is that there was a lack
12:17
of openness or at least a perceived lack of openness.
12:23
And now openness is something that we take and
12:25
we we flip what we mean by that. So a lot of
12:29
times people will take openness as being an open
12:31
book or being transparent. To me, that's still
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wrapped up in the honesty side of things. It's
12:35
still about me, myself, and I. But if we're going
12:37
to have real connection, real communication going
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back and forth, what we need on the other side
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is the openness as we define it, which is listening
12:45
without reservation, putting your needs and wants
12:48
on pause for someone else. So we think about
12:51
in that networking example that you're talking
12:52
about, your need or your want is to have business
12:56
come out of it right some type of revenue generation
12:59
but how do we really be in service of another
13:04
person how do we help them we pause that need
13:06
that want for a moment and we really hear what
13:08
the other person is saying we're looking for
13:10
what do they really need how do i help them how
13:12
do i understand them best and in that way when
13:16
you have that exchange going on where i'm able
13:18
to be 100 honest with you michael you're 100
13:20
open to it and i trust that And then back, you're
13:24
100 % honest with me because I'm 100 % honest
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to it. Man, can we really get some stuff done?
13:30
Can we really make a real genuine connection
13:32
there? That's the two pieces of it. So simple,
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yet so sometimes difficult to do and not talked
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about nearly enough, which is why I do what I
13:43
do. I think that people try to do it so hard
13:48
that they wound up faking it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
13:53
I think we're told to listen, but we're not really
14:00
taught how to listen. And so that can look like
14:04
we're performing the ways of listening, like
14:06
doing a lot of head nodding and doing that. Actually,
14:09
it's just interrupting somebody and that's performing
14:12
the listening versus. actually listening to them,
14:15
making that genuine eye contact? Are you really
14:18
hearing what they have to say? Are you just waiting
14:20
for your next opportunity to speak? Even if that
14:23
next opportunity is a question you're going to
14:25
ask, that still means that you're thinking about
14:29
that question rather than listening to what they're
14:31
actually saying. True. And that's actually called
14:34
active listening because you need to listen to
14:38
the person you're speaking with 100%. nothing
14:42
else, and you need to, after they say it, you
14:46
recite some of it back to them to say, okay,
14:49
so I understand it that you were saying this,
14:52
you're in need of that, or whatever the case
14:54
may be, to show them that you were listening
14:57
by 100%, right? So you can have a true interactive
15:01
conversation about whatever the conversation
15:05
was, right? So that is active listening. Okay.
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So what are the three daily habits or micro routines
15:15
you practice that keeps your communication sharp
15:18
and authentic? The first one is one of the practices
15:21
we teach to clients, which is the agreement.
15:24
So it's a simple proven script to start any conversation
15:28
that's going to get you to real communication
15:30
so much faster. For the audience listening, I
15:33
highly recommend you write this next. phrase
15:38
down because it's the agreement and it's gold.
15:40
I'm going to give it to you in full. So here,
15:42
Michael, we're going to do it together. Okay.
15:43
You don't have to do anything, but here we go.
15:47
Will you agree with me on how we're going to
15:49
communicate? I want you to be a hundred percent
15:51
honest, meaning I want you to be truly and freely
15:54
yourself. speaking into what you want and how
15:56
you feel. I promise I'll be 100 % open to it.
16:00
I will listen without reservation. I'll put my
16:02
needs and wants on pause for you. And in return,
16:05
I'll be honest with you and I ask that you be
16:07
completely open to it. Sound good? Sounds good.
16:12
That's the entire agreement. You use that every
16:14
single day, man. your relationships will transform.
16:18
I use it with my team. I teach it to all of my
16:20
clients. I have them use it. We use it with all
16:22
of our third -party vendors within our business
16:24
and it has transformed the level of conversation
16:28
that we get to have because we get past all the
16:31
fluff so much faster and we get down to the root
16:34
of the real issue happening. So that's number
16:36
one. Number two and number three tie together
16:40
a little bit, but I think about these are two
16:42
other practices that we teach clients. And I
16:45
think about what gets in the way of communication.
16:48
And there's a whole list of things that I could
16:51
give you, but it's really these two things. And
16:54
it is fake you that we already talked about.
16:56
When you're projecting that facade, it is getting
16:59
in the way of real genuine connection and people
17:01
can sense that. And then the other thing is the
17:04
wall. And so the wall is the divide we put between
17:06
ourselves and others rather than being 100 %
17:09
open. So think about when you are not listening
17:12
to somebody, what essentially you are doing to
17:16
them is you are putting up a giant brick wall
17:20
between you and them. And what is going to happen
17:23
to your conversation there? So those are two
17:25
things that I look out for on a daily basis in
17:28
this conversation. Am I being a fake version
17:30
of myself? And why is that? What's going on there?
17:34
In this conversation, am I putting up the wall?
17:36
Do I really not want to hear what this person
17:38
has to say? Am I not engaged? Am I not interested?
17:41
What's going on there? Why is that happening?
17:44
And we're digging into that every single day.
17:47
And so those are the three. The agreement, start
17:50
your conversation off on the right foot. And
17:52
then, which inevitably will happen if we fall
17:55
short of 100 % honest or 100 % open. We got to
17:58
look at what's going on there. Where's fake you
18:00
popping up? Where's the wall popping up? And
18:03
so those are the ways that I think about it to
18:04
keep it so simple, but in front of me still.
18:09
It goes right along with the networking that
18:13
you're trying to get everybody to wrap their
18:15
head around. And it's very simple. It's the old
18:17
saying, know you like you trust you. They'll
18:20
do business with you. Everybody will know you.
18:23
You're a nice person. Not everybody's going to
18:26
like you. That kind of narrows the field down.
18:28
But that wall that you were talking about, that
18:31
wall is always right in front of the trust. And
18:35
as you're speaking with them authentically and
18:38
you're having them tell you what they like and
18:41
everything else, talking about themselves, that
18:43
wall is coming down and that trust factor is
18:47
going up. And then you can begin to do business.
18:51
and not before. Some people try to put the cart
18:54
before the horse, and they walk into a networking
18:56
event. Hi, I'm Mike Forman. I do this. I really
19:00
don't care. I'm not here for that. And you move
19:03
on. But okay. So let's go with listening versus
19:07
talking. Most people, listening matters. What
19:12
specific listening skill separates average networkers
19:17
from exceptional ones? That is a fantastic question.
19:23
I think I'm going to go with a personal example
19:27
for me, but it goes back to what we were talking
19:31
about before. What I find is I get so excited
19:33
when I talk to somebody and I ask them so many
19:35
questions and they'll say something and I'm like,
19:39
oh, I got a question about that, but they're
19:40
not done speaking yet. And so now I'm thinking
19:42
I got to ask him this question because I'm really
19:44
interested in this. And I miss the second half
19:46
of everything that they say. And so really exercising
19:51
that muscle. I really believe it's a muscle of
19:55
pausing that voice in your brain that's constantly
19:58
coming up with questions or comments or things
20:00
that you could say to really hear what the individual
20:04
is saying all the way through. I think the most
20:08
powerful thing is a pause. At the end of when
20:12
somebody speaks, it doesn't have to be a long
20:14
one, like half a second long, but what that really
20:17
is your brain fully processing what they had
20:19
to say. And then you'll have a great question
20:21
after that or a comment or something like that.
20:23
Your brain will come up with it, I promise you.
20:26
But practicing that skill is something that I
20:29
work on actively because otherwise I feel like
20:34
I end up brushing them through whatever they
20:36
were going to say and they don't actually feel
20:37
heard, but I'm trying to help them feel heard.
20:40
By asking another question. That's so on point.
20:44
This all goes back to the active listening. And
20:48
the most important part about the listening is
20:51
the pause. And nobody evaluates that pause like
20:56
it's something important. But it's probably the
20:59
most important part of listening. So you're right
21:03
on point with that. Okay. How do you balance
21:07
being open? I'm sorry. How do you balance being
21:11
open enough to build trust while protecting your
21:14
time and energy? The time and energy, man, that
21:20
is, I think that is an ongoing evaluation that
21:24
I do. And so I think about, for me, it's important
21:28
where I show up consistently. So consistency
21:32
is an important part of trust for what I do and
21:34
what I build with people. But that also means
21:37
that sometimes I can show up in spaces multiple
21:43
times that aren't a place where I'm adding value
21:47
or that is adding value for what I'm looking
21:49
for as well. And so I think that's a consistent
21:52
practice that I have asking, am I adding value
21:55
here? Is the value on the other side making sense?
21:59
So I think that is a key part of it. That is
22:04
a key part of it. And when you said adding value
22:07
to the conversation, to what you're doing, is
22:11
whenever somebody perceives you giving value
22:15
to the conversation or to what you're doing,
22:18
then they'll listen. If they don't perceive you
22:21
giving value to it, they turn you off. They'll
22:24
say, okay, who's next? So that's very much on
22:27
point. I don't keep saying on point. I shouldn't
22:30
keep saying on point, but it's on point. The
22:33
other thing too, Michael, that I had here, when
22:35
we look at, we have an assessment that measures
22:38
people's ability to be honest and to be open.
22:40
And then we break it down further into your personal
22:43
life and your work life. Because sometimes I've
22:45
been in networking events where we just got an
22:46
overshare, which I think there's a place for
22:50
all of it. I think about what hat am I wearing?
22:54
Am I wearing my personal hat or am I wearing
22:56
my professional hat? And when it comes to that,
22:59
what I mean by that is, am I sharing something
23:01
that helps going back to value, give value to
23:05
the conversation? So for example, if somebody's
23:08
sharing that they're going through a difficult
23:11
time with an employee because of... XYZ example.
23:16
Do I have something that I can share with that
23:18
is maybe a little bit deeper than what I would
23:20
have shared in the conversation previously, but
23:22
it's going to help them through that. And so
23:24
I think about how do I continue to add value,
23:27
add that trust and share in that professional
23:30
setting with what makes sense and helps us advance
23:33
forward and helps them in their life too. Yeah.
23:37
When you look to give value to something and
23:41
don't expect anything in return. That's the key.
23:44
You're just giving them an answer to their question.
23:48
And you've answered it. You've helped them through
23:51
it. They're undoubtedly going to ask you again
23:54
or then become a client or something in between.
23:59
But that's always the first step is giving value
24:02
to what you're doing. Yeah. All right. Walk us
24:07
through the first five minutes, the high value
24:10
networking encounter. And what do you say? What
24:13
do you ask? And what do you avoid? Oh, the first.
24:20
Yeah. Yeah, I like these. Okay. I think about.
24:29
So I get to know them a little bit. And typically
24:33
what people want to jump into immediately, because
24:36
we're trained on this when we go to networking
24:38
events, I think, is the back to the what do you
24:40
do question. And so they just jump into immediately,
24:44
I'm whatever title from whatever company. Okay,
24:49
fantastic. But what I want to do is I want to
24:52
get a level deeper with them. For me, that's
24:56
just, that's purely how I'm built is I want to
24:58
know a little bit more about the person. And
25:01
so I'll ask them a question around, okay, what
25:02
got you into that? Or why are you passionate
25:04
about it? Or a question like that, where we get
25:08
to get deeper very quickly. And then from there,
25:12
we follow the conversation wherever that goes.
25:15
And then inevitably what I'm asking is I'm asking
25:19
about what's coming next for them. And that is
25:23
purely from a, how do I help them? So if there's
25:26
a big project that they're thinking about, or
25:29
sometimes within meeting somebody, they tell
25:31
them within five minutes, they're like, yeah,
25:32
I'm looking actually for a new job. I'm like,
25:34
oh, okay. Good to know. And let me keep an eye
25:39
out for you. Something like that. But just trying
25:41
to get that level deeper so we're not in that
25:43
routine conversation and I get your spiel and
25:47
you get my spiel. Absolutely. And you want to
25:51
stay away from those awkward conversations and
25:54
stay away from those stale conversations. So
25:57
it's you being you have to you can say whatever
26:00
you want to say, ask any question you want, as
26:04
long as it's not a default way that you are always.
26:09
Being when you're in a networking group, a networking
26:11
environment, you have to be the person. They're
26:14
going to feel your energy. Right. You have to
26:17
be up and always with a smile and saying, OK,
26:20
look, you know, in your head that this person
26:22
isn't going to work for you. I'm going to move
26:25
on. But how are you going to move on? Are you
26:27
going to politely bow out and move on to the
26:30
next person? Yes. OK, but let's say that this
26:36
was a failed connection. When a connection goes
26:40
cold or you say the wrong thing, what's a straightforward
26:44
step to repair it? I think just owning it. That
26:50
came out wrong. No, it had to have been perfect.
26:55
Because listen, nobody's perfect. And I've made
26:59
10 ,000 mistakes in my lifetime. But one thing
27:04
I've learned is you own it. You own the mistake.
27:08
And so that's exactly what you do. It's up to
27:12
you, but you own the mistake. Yeah. Okay. So
27:18
how do you change your communication style between
27:22
a boardroom and a gym class and a one -on -one
27:27
coffee without losing authenticity? A boardroom,
27:31
gym, coffee shop. I think about... For me, what
27:37
is consistency in that? And one of the important
27:41
things in my background, like I shared, was growing
27:44
up in a family business. And so that translates
27:46
from the boardroom when I'm talking with executives,
27:49
like, yes, I've seen your struggle. I'm also
27:52
in your struggle. But I've also seen it for a
27:55
long historical perspective and all the problems
27:57
that leaderships deal with. For me, it's an important
27:59
part of my story. It's probably going to show
28:02
up if I'm in the gym having a conversation and
28:04
if I'm in a coffee shop having a conversation.
28:07
And so figuring it out from there and always
28:10
thinking about how do I tell that story and how
28:16
do I keep it consistent and not cherry picking
28:20
pieces out of it, but just this is who I am.
28:24
It's probably cherry picking pieces depending
28:28
on where you are. whether it's a boardroom or
28:31
coffee shop or something like that. But I think
28:34
you were right when you said cherry pick part
28:37
of your story because you're telling the same
28:39
story because that's how you got here and how
28:43
you're going to help them. But you are who you
28:48
are and you're going to cherry pick the certain
28:50
sections that you feel is the right move for
28:54
the venue. And I think the other part too, Michael,
28:58
for me is. Where I think it's important and where
29:02
I lose people, maybe people get confused in the
29:06
cherry picking, is I'm not telling the perfectly
29:09
polished stories. I'm telling you about how we
29:14
didn't communicate well. in the business. Or
29:16
I'm telling you about how another client of mine,
29:19
protecting their anonymity a little bit, but
29:21
telling them another story of where they didn't
29:23
do so well when it came to communication. I'm
29:26
not just giving the glossy versions of things.
29:29
And for me and my leadership, that's really important
29:31
because I need leaders to know that, especially
29:34
as I'm helping them develop these skills, that
29:36
they're going to get it wrong and it's going
29:39
to be messy. And that's part of leadership. And
29:41
that's really part of being a human being. When
29:45
we get into leadership, we get this weird idea
29:47
that we have to show up perfectly. And that's
29:49
not the case. And so whatever story I'm telling,
29:52
wherever I'm telling it, there's going to be
29:55
a point where you see that I failed. Or that
29:57
another person in the story example that I'm
29:59
sharing failed. Things like that. And so that
30:01
is where, to me, the consistency comes through.
30:04
Okay, good. How do you track whether your relationships
30:09
are actually paying off professionally or personally
30:13
without sounding transactional? Yeah, the transactional
30:18
piece, that's difficult. I think it comes back
30:22
to the value side of things. And just as a person
30:27
of faith, really trusting that there's a reason
30:29
this relationship exists. And so whether it's
30:33
because I am giving more. or because they are
30:36
giving more for this time or this season, that
30:40
it will come back. And so there's a reason that
30:44
this relationship is happening. Now, if it becomes
30:49
one where it's just a take -take, that's a real
30:51
conversation that we have to have, that I have
30:54
to have with that individual to say, hey, I love
30:56
helping you, and I feel as though I'm just giving
31:01
in this relationship. And then we talk about
31:04
it. And it's as simple as having that conversation
31:06
or being really clear with people to say, hey,
31:09
here's where, you know, if you're going to, for
31:12
example, refer me. We're talking about networking.
31:15
Referrals happen and can be the best source of
31:17
business. Here's what's really helpful. And getting
31:22
really clear with people on that. And in that
31:24
way, it's not, it can feel transactional, but
31:28
I don't think it is because it's actually. Clarity
31:31
is a gift to that individual. And it's a gift
31:34
to anybody that they might refer to you. Because
31:37
if somebody refers to me and they're looking
31:39
for, I don't know, disc or Enneagram work or
31:43
for any kind of example like that, certainly
31:46
I can help them. There are great facilitators
31:48
and facilitators around those that I know, but
31:51
that's not going to be me. And so giving that
31:54
clarity to them helps them also be a better connector
31:58
of individuals too. So how do you help everybody
32:02
shine in the best way possible? I think it's
32:05
got to be clear. And sometimes that comes across
32:07
as transactional, but I don't think it is. No,
32:10
I agree. I agree. Communication is key. And the
32:14
more open everybody is, the closer we are to
32:19
getting to the transaction, the business part
32:22
of it. But that comes way, way over here. All
32:26
this has to happen first. Okay, so let's bring
32:29
this podcast full circle and do a little 30 -day
32:34
challenge for my listeners. Give our audience
32:37
one simple 30 -day practice that will make them
32:42
measurably better at creating real create connections
32:45
and what it is and how they should measure progress.
32:52
Who would measure progress? Okay, that changes
32:55
it a little bit. Because I was going to say,
32:56
go back and listen to the segment on the agreement
32:59
and now use that with any conversation with.
33:02
That was very good. That was very good. And all
33:06
my listeners, they should listen to that segment
33:09
and implement that as the contract. Okay, within
33:13
30 days. But there's the second half of the question.
33:16
How are they going to measure progress? Yeah.
33:21
So when it comes to that, for the agreement,
33:23
the measurement of it, are you using it or you're
33:26
not? And then evaluating post -conversation,
33:29
how did it go? Did you get to a deeper level?
33:33
But if they want to be really measurable, we
33:35
have an assessment that gives them the, that
33:38
I was talking about a little bit earlier, the
33:40
real -time data. So if you go to knowhonesty
33:42
.com slash assessment, so K -N -O -W honesty
33:45
.com slash assessment, there's a About a 10 -minute
33:49
assessment you can take that's going to give
33:51
you your real -time ability to deliver and receive
33:55
real communication. And so we're looking at how
33:57
honest are you? How open are you? And if they
34:01
want the measurable, those are the numbers to
34:02
look at and say, okay, in my conversations, I'm
34:06
60 % honest. Or in my conversations, I'm 50 %
34:09
open. And then you can go take that again. It's
34:13
an assessment you can take over and over. We
34:14
typically recommend every six months or so, but
34:17
certainly can do it within 30 days and starting
34:19
that education piece there. So are we developing
34:22
this? Are we getting better at this? Because
34:24
I will tell you the people who succeed the most,
34:27
the people who get looked to as high trust, engaging.
34:33
Our exceptional leaders are the people who develop
34:36
and display and live out those two skills of
34:39
being open and being honest. So there's your
34:41
measurable thing that they can go do. That was
34:45
fantastic. Grace, I want to thank you so much
34:49
for coming on the podcast. And if somebody wants
34:52
to get hold of you about one of your programs
34:55
or to be coached or just to ask you a question,
34:58
what's the best way for them to get hold of you?
35:01
Yeah, they can. One of two ways. You can shoot
35:03
me a LinkedIn message. I'm on LinkedIn under
35:06
Grace Gavin. Feel free to follow me there. I
35:08
post about this all the time. And the other way,
35:11
a little bit more direct, is you can reach out
35:13
to me via email. My email is grace at no honesty
35:16
dot com. And again, K -N -O -W honesty dot com.
35:21
Important distinction to make there, Michael.
35:22
But shoot me an email and let's have a conversation
35:24
about this because. We've had a short one here
35:27
today, but I could go on and on. And I talk about
35:30
this all day long with my clients and wrestle
35:32
with this ability, this skill. How do we build
35:34
these things and talk through it? Reach out to
35:36
me there. Love to have conversations about this.
35:39
And bring me your challenges. Bring me your questions,
35:41
whatever it might be. Fantastic. Grace, thank
35:44
you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks
35:47
for having me, Michael. Well, hold on, folks.
35:53
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We're out, folks. A huge thank you to our guests
36:49
for sharing such incredible insights today. And
36:53
of course, a big shout out to you, our amazing
36:55
listeners, for tuning in and spending your time
36:58
with us. If you're interested in my digital courses,
37:02
being coached, or having me come and talk to
37:05
your company, just go to Michael and fill out
37:08
the request form. Remember, networking isn't
37:12
about being perfect. It's about being present.
37:15
So take what you've learned today. get out there,
37:18
and make some meaningful connections. If you've
37:21
enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to
37:23
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37:27
someone who could use a little networking inspiration.
37:30
Let's keep the conversation going. You can find
37:33
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37:37
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