Latest / Drawn of History / Retired Las Vegas Police Sgt. _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _584(M4A_128K)

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Retired Las Vegas Police Sgt. _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _584(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We want to let you know that today's conversation may
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: be a bit graphic for some or gruesome. It's containing
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: law enforcement and some of their involvement just with society.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: So if you don't like that sort of thing, you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: may not want to listen. Today's guest is a retired
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: sergeant from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and a
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  Speaker 1: former crisis negotiator. He was born and raised in Queens,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: New York, before spending 20 years on the force in
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas, where he pretty much saw it all. Today's
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: guest is LVPD's finest, Christopher Curtis. Okay, sitting here today,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: retired police officer.
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  Speaker 2: Sergeant.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Sorry.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: That's a thing with police, yeah.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: That's a faux pas.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: A little bit, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: First, yes, sir. Sir, yes, sir. Retired police sergeant from
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the Las Vegas... Metropolitan Police Department. Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: You did 25 years of service.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I did 21 plus, and then I bought some
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: of the time. A guy actually bought my time out
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: to go work for him afterwards. In Nevada, you can
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  Speaker 2: do that.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: So you can... so if you're a police officer and
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: you have, you still have so many years left on your, um,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: lease or what is it?
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  Speaker 2: To collect your retirement. Okay.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. So you want to get your, your pension, right?
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  Speaker 2: So you can buy it yourself. But what happened was
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  Speaker 2: I was one of the first people, cause there was
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: a guy in the private sector. You ever heard of
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: the company Zappos?
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Zappos, the shoes?
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the shoes. So the guy, Tony Hsieh, who passed
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: away some time ago, he was a billionaire.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he had one foot in the grave. That's an
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  Speaker 1: old Zappos guy.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: I won't tell you anymore.
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  Speaker 2: He, um, He was revitalizing downtown Las Vegas, and he
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  Speaker 2: was investing 350 million into it. And he heard about
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: me doing some innovative things down there. And through a friend,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: he asked to meet me at a bar. And so
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  Speaker 2: we meet at this bar, and I'm like, Tony Hsieh?
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  Speaker 2: And he says, he told me about the project, and
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  Speaker 2: he's like, would you like to come work for me?
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  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not old enough to retire, and
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  Speaker 2: I don't have the time. And he said, can you buy?
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  Speaker 2: How much does it cost? And I said, I have
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: to get back to you. But I knew it was
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  Speaker 2: a significant six-figure number. And I got back to him
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  Speaker 2: with the number, and he wrote the check. And so
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  Speaker 2: at like 21 years on April Fool's Day of 2013,
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  Speaker 2: I retired.
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  Speaker 1: So he paid your– He bought it.
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  Speaker 2: So if you want to collect a retirement, you have
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: to do at least a certain amount of time. You
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  Speaker 2: get vested in the state system. Got it. So to
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  Speaker 2: make it worthwhile, to make it a significant amount of money,
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  Speaker 2: you want to do at least 25 years. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: 20 years, you could do it. But at 25 years
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  Speaker 2: and 30 years, the money's pretty nice.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And so to get to 25, at the time he
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  Speaker 2: wanted me to retire, he needed to buy it, and
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  Speaker 2: it was six figures, and he wrote the check.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 1: And so within like a couple days, you were done?
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  Speaker 2: No. I kind of was strategic about it, and I
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: planned it out, and I wanted to see exactly what
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  Speaker 2: his process was. And he was a very, very smart
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: guy and a very forward-thinking guy, so we kind of
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  Speaker 2: planned behind the scenes how to work it out. And
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  Speaker 2: so I had enough time to set everything up, and
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  Speaker 2: then April Fool's Day, I retired. Wow.
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  Speaker 1: And he paid off. How many years did he pay off?
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  Speaker 2: So it turned out to be like maybe like three
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  Speaker 2: and a half, almost four years, basically four years. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And at that point you started working for him? At
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  Speaker 1: that point I started working for him. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So I had my full police retirement and then I
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  Speaker 2: had a significant salary from him. So that was nice.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Living in Vegas still at that time.
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  Speaker 2: I was still living in Vegas. I had to because
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  Speaker 2: I had to be kind of working in that project downtown.
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  Speaker 2: Can I give you something? Actually, I brought something for you.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure.
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  Speaker 2: I think so. You know, I'm a fan, man. I
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: really like what you do and I think you're awesome.
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  Speaker 2: And I figured I could give you something, a Vegas souvenir.
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  Speaker 2: So- Open that up. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Scoot up a coaster. Oh, this is a beverage coaster.
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  Speaker 1: Police Managers Supervisors Association Las Vegas Metro badge, huh?
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  Speaker 2: Now open it up. Okay. And look at the back.
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  Speaker 3: Ooh.
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  Speaker 1: Gang, boy. Okay. Commemorative only, thank God.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't go out and start jacking people.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, dude.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wanted you to have a badge, man. And
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: so then you can just put it on this little thing. Oh, thanks, bro.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: And then you can just put it in one of
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  Speaker 2: your places, man. You do a lot of really cool stuff, man.
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  Speaker 2: When I came into town, man, and the people I
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  Speaker 2: talked to, you know, a small group of people, everyone
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  Speaker 2: really thinks very, very highly of you, man. I watched
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  Speaker 2: your stuff. You're a good dude, man.
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  Speaker 1: Well, thanks, Chris, man. I appreciate you saying that. Dude,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: that's awesome. Yeah, because we need some nice— You've.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Got to put it back in the thing in order
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: to hold it in there.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, that's fair.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. God. I should.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I worked in zoning for a little bit,
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  Speaker 1: so sorry. That should have made sense. Dude, that's awesome, man.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: We have a nice little collection of some neat stuff
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  Speaker 1: that people have given us. Good.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Well, now you've got a badge. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: That's very, very thoughtful of you. Thank you, man. Yeah.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: And thank you for your service too.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Right on.
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  Speaker 1: Dude, I'll tell you a story. So one time I'm
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: at the University of Tennessee football game and some guy,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: and he was like a drunk guy and he was like,
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  Speaker 1: you know, and he just kept making sounds like that
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  Speaker 1: and just like, And he could breathe, but he wasn't
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  Speaker 1: great at it, you know. He put on some weight
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  Speaker 1: or whatever. And he was a sheriff or something, you know.
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  Speaker 1: And I was like, I need to get downstairs and
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: use the restroom. He's like, oh, well, if anybody gives
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: you any problems, just show them this. He gave me
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  Speaker 1: his sheriff's badge, right, in a little fan foot. It
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: comes in like a little wallet. So I'm downstairs, dude, right.
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  Speaker 1: Things start kind of like people start getting weird down there.
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  Speaker 1: Like there's some stuff kind of popping off in a tunnel.
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  Speaker 1: And so I pull this thing out, dude, and I
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  Speaker 1: show it up in the air, right. And now there's
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  Speaker 1: other police officers come up. And they're looking at each
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  Speaker 1: other and they're looking at me, right?
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  Speaker 2: And, uh. How old were you?
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  Speaker 1: Oh, this was probably eight months ago. And then, uh, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And then the lady pushed me up against the wall
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  Speaker 1: for having a fake identification, being a fake police officer.
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  Speaker 2: But they didn't know they recognize you?
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: She did that. She didn't want any bullshit. I guess
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  Speaker 1: she recognized I was not an officiant of the law.
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  Speaker 2: You were just the old lawn with a badge.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. And she's like, this kind of shit is too much.
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  Speaker 1: So anyway, just be careful where you use, um, where
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: you use, uh, badgery, you know? Um, so, so what
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  Speaker 1: did you do for Tony?
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  Speaker 2: Tony Shea.
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  Speaker 1: Tony Shea.
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  Speaker 2: So for Tony, he's, he was revitalizing downtown and he
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  Speaker 2: wanted to create like an ambassador, you know, those ambassadors
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  Speaker 2: that kind of give out directions or eyes for the
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  Speaker 2: police and, He wanted someone that knew the area. So
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  Speaker 2: I like hired like 60 people and they just walked
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  Speaker 2: around the air because it was pretty high crime rate
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  Speaker 2: back then. In fact, what's interesting is I had worked
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  Speaker 2: a double homicide on Fremont like maybe about six months
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  Speaker 2: before he approached me. It was pretty bad down there
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  Speaker 2: at one point for a long time. When I first
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  Speaker 2: hired on in 92, it was like if you wanted
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  Speaker 2: a cop to learn how to be a really good
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  Speaker 2: street cop, you would want to work downtown on Fremont.
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  Speaker 2: So basically, to answer your question, it was to have
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  Speaker 2: these ambassador people who wore like yellow shirts and very
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  Speaker 2: welcoming to people who were looking for directions because there
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  Speaker 2: was an infrastructure of people that were working and living
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  Speaker 2: down there and he was trying to build that because
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  Speaker 2: he had residential businesses and all kinds of stuff. And
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  Speaker 2: in not having the police, he wanted to have a
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  Speaker 2: civilian group of people that could interact with people and
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  Speaker 2: make them feel safe.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's like a business person and a
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  Speaker 1: connector like him. You think of those types of things
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  Speaker 1: and you start to see the value in them. How
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  Speaker 1: did Tony Hsieh die?
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  Speaker 2: So, you know, I'm not very comfortable speaking about specifically
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  Speaker 2: how he died. I know there was an incident where
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  Speaker 2: there was a fire and he was inside the fire.
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  Speaker 2: And I believe it was related to something about being
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: inside the building with the fire. Because I wasn't with
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: the company when that happened. That was sometime after the company. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, it got to a point where after I
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  Speaker 2: retired and I had throughout the years of dealing with
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  Speaker 2: so much death and all the craziness on the police department,
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  Speaker 2: I just tuned everything out. I really didn't engage with
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  Speaker 2: people if it wasn't a positive experience. And then it
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  Speaker 2: became a point where I was just like a solitary person.
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  Speaker 2: So I wasn't really very intimately involved in the details
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  Speaker 2: to how he died. But that's kind of like the
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  Speaker 2: gist of it.
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  Speaker 1: Got it. So we see how you finished the force.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Then how did it start? Like, how did it first
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  Speaker 1: start that you decided to become join the force in
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  Speaker 1: Las Vegas?
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  Speaker 2: I was a Marine. So when I was 17, I
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: joined the Marine Corps. And this was 1987 that I
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: went into the Marine Corps. Paris Island, 3rd Battalion, I Company,
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  Speaker 2: super hardcore. And my dad was in law enforcement too.
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  Speaker 2: And I cannot overstate the importance of having a strong
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: male role model in your life. My father, I genuflect
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: to that man. He died in 2017. And what I
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: can say is that my dad, I wanted to do
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: everything like my dad. So my dad was in the military.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: My dad was in the army, but I wanted to
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: be a Marine. And my dad was in law enforcement.
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  Speaker 2: So while I was in the Marine Corps, uh, you know,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: there was, I was on embassy duty. I ended up
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: going to embassy duty, which is like one of the best,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: most challenging duties in the Marine Corps. If you go
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: to the right countries. And, uh, I was in Belgrade.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It was actually, it was when I was in Caracas,
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: when I was in Caracas, there was a, and that's Venezuela, Caracas, Venezuela.
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  Speaker 2: There was a, um, economics officer who took a liking
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: to me and he knew I wanted to go into
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: law enforcement. He said to me, he said, in the nineties,
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: the economy in Vegas is going to explode. I got
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: on a plane and within like a couple of weeks
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: flew and took the test. And then I ended up
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: in the academy in 92. Wow. Yeah, dude.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I bet the streets were hot in 92. Were they crazy?
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: It was the wild, wild West. Vegas was the wild,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: wild West. If you're You know, everyone says that their
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: department is the best. I'm going to say that Las
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Vegas policing, especially in the 90s, I call it the
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: golden era of policing, was just phenomenal. I mean, you
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: really got to understand the psyche of the human being
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: because so many people come to Vegas to do whatever
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: crazy thing they want to do. And and you got
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: to interact with people on that level. And it teaches
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: you a lot about people.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Is it, is that a more fun place to be
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: in law enforcement? Do you feel like, like, I know
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: that's a strange word probably to use with policing, but
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: is that a more entertaining place?
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: It is.
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  Speaker 2: It is because you, you deal with everything they deal
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: with in LA, everything they deal with in New York,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and then Vegas is just, you know they say New
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: York is a city that never sleeps. It kind of does.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I'm a New Yorker. It kind of does. Vegas never sleeps.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Vegas can't sleep because it's coked up.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, for sure. Or meth.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Coke or meth. Was meth a little bit popping?
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: It is because you know the area command that you
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: work would kind of define what drug you would deal
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: with primarily. And so there was a time where I
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: was working in the Northeast and they used to call them,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: it was called Frank area now. They used to be
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: David area. They call them Frankites or Davidites because they'd
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: be up just tweaking out, doing stuff on trailers and everything.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: And there was a transition for me in my life
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: because I was a straight edge guy and I'd look
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: down on drugs and I didn't have a lot of,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: I guess, empathy for people who were using drugs. And
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: now I've completely learned the opposite, you know?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I bet you, because you're firsthand right in
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: front of those people all the time.
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  Speaker 2: I got to see, like, I would go to a
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: single wide trailer at 3 a.m., lady's completely tweaked out
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: of her mind. And her kids are awake, all nasty,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: you know, crying. The neighbors have called spaghetti sauce on
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: the walls. And I'd be pissed at the mother. and
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: what happened throughout my career is I ended up seeing
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: that little girl that I was trying to protect becoming
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: the parent of a kid in the same type of situation.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: It's just cyclical, you know? And then for the police
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: to be judgmental, I found that to be incredibly disheartening
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: for me. And in fact, if there's anything I think
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: back in my life, it is if ever I treated
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: another human being improperly, or if I didn't spend time
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: with my children, when I could have spent time with
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: my children, you know, it, it, it makes me get
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: emotional sometimes when I can think of specific situations. I'll
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: tell you a story, man. There was one time where
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I took a little girl from her mom.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: And this is in Vegas?
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: This is in Vegas.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: All my police stuff is in Vegas. There was one
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: time that she was, the mom was completely took off.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: She was slamming speed and she was just up and
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: just doing all kinds of stuff. And the neighbors was
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: at some point called. Yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: And you slamming speed is injecting it.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's injecting it.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And, and so I go there and I remember I
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: had to take the little girl from her mom and,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: This girl was crying in such a way, I recorded this,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: that it was almost as if someone was literally, though
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: I wasn't, pulling her heart out of her body. Now
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: mind you, that's a kid who loves their mom no
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: matter what. You love your parent in spite of, right?
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: And I'll always remember in my mind that I have
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: to learn to look at other people not only the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: way that I'd want to be treated, but through the
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: experiences that I've had, that's how I look at people now.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: You know, once you get older, you can start to
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: get emotional about just the simplest of things.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. Jesus. Most of this podcast is
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: like that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: The little things that will trigger things that you didn't
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: have or things you admire so much or even a
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: word sometimes that a phrase somebody will use and it'll
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: just like well you up with emotion. Um, well, I
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: do think it's interesting for, for people in police, fire departments,
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: those types of jobs where, yes, you, I'm sure you
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: develop a lot of empathy, but then also you are
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: put under an unrealistic amount of stress. A lot of
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: officers are, I would assume it seems like to me
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: from the discussions I've had that a lot of people
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: get put under, um, stress that they're not really even
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: as a human equipped to deal with. So then at
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: that point, it's probably tough for you to engage your
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: best feelings and your best empathy at moments. When you're
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: under stress and then you also have to look out
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: for your own survival. I'm not debating you with it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm sure it's quite a juxtaposition, you know.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: When you first started out in Vegas, what are some
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: things that you saw? Anything that stands out, you know?
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: So from a crime perspective or from just a culture
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: of policing perspective?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Let's start with the crime perspective.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: So from the crime perspective, drugs are— One of the most,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, drugs and alcohol, okay? Because drugs and alcohol
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: kind of run hand in hand when it comes to
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: the challenges that I would run into. The drug scene
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: in Vegas was, either it was crack or it was speed.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: And like I said before, depending on the area command
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: that you went. And I would go on Fremont, because
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I worked Fremont primarily the first part of my career,
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: and I'd see these young girls hooked on crack, prostituting
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: on Fremont Street. Then you would see guys who came
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: into town to party in Vegas. gamble at the casinos downtown,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and then they want to come and pick up these girls.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: They get trick rolled. I mean, it's just this incredible
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: web of vice that occurred, and it was like Gotham City.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: And what's trick rolled? Is that that thing where somebody
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: sends you that video or whatever?
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: No, so trick rolled is when a girl, a prostitute,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: ends up getting you in a hotel room either drugs
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: you or steals your money and rolls you. So the
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: guy's the trick and they roll him for his money.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, like a finesse kind of.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's a finesse, sometimes it's with drugs. I mean,
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: there are a lot of different ways that that could
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: potentially happen.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: The act of a person commercially exchanging sex, robbing or
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: stealing from their sex-buying client known as a trick. Got it.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I got it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was something at a sushi joint, too.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, damn, I don't like it.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just make sure you cook it first. Like, would
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: you bust into some, like, wild parties? Like, would you
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: bust in and people have been up for days? Would
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you bust in and people were so bummed that you
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: were ruining the party? That ever happen?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: You know, the thing was not so necessarily bummed. It
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: was that the people felt like it was in Vegas, like...
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: come on cop, we should be able to do this.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Why are you bothering us right now? They wouldn't even
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: be mad. It was almost like a joke or people
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: who wouldn't want to try to pay you off or
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. But the funny thing is that when
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I was talking about the girls doing the trick roles
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and stuff like, and everything, these people were a lot
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: of times close to my age. So I would see these,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: do you know this, the guy's name is, he was
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: a famous poker player. I can't remember his name. I
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: pulled him over one time, and he was completely cracked out.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: He's dead now, so it's not me.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: He was driving?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: No, he was in the passenger seat.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Stu Unger?
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Stu Unger, yeah. Stu Unger. I pulled Stu Unger over.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: He was in the passenger side of a car. The
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: driver was this dude who I knew was a dealer,
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: completely cracked out of his mind. And Stu tried to
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: play me as I was standing at the passenger side
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: of the car to try to get me to let
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: him go, knowing that the car was full of all
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. Now, in Vegas, I can tell you
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: that without telling you that on both hands, I've run
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: into easily five to 10 BA-less people involved in very,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: very compromising situations. And I know that happens in LA,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: but the Vegas stuff is really supersedy. It's almost always
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: some kind of sex, prostitute, drug type thing. And I,
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: and you know, I was like 21, 22 years old
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: and I was interacting with people who I had no
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: idea that I would be interacting with them on that
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: type of level.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Like were there times you get called to hotel rooms? Like,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to think of like, take me on
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: like a specific call if you can. Um, so you don't,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying name celebrities and I don't need that,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: but I'm just saying like, yeah, take me on like
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: a call where things are like, you know, I'm just
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: kind of curious as to the level of, um, Like
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: just the things you would see because it's Vegas. You know,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: it's the craziest place on earth.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So here's a story and it's a sad story.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Do I sound demanding about that?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's kind of why I came, right?
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: My hearing is kind of sensitive today too. Yeah, I
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: don't know why. I think I'm just tired, but.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So working downtown, I got a call once.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So you guys walk to beat down there? What do
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you guys do?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: That's one of the things. You don't really walk as
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: much in Vegas. Everyone really drives a car. And I
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: could talk about that a little bit later because I
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: think foot patrol is kind of important. But I remember
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: one time going to, there was this movie theater called
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: the Flick Movie Theater. It was right on Fremont Street.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: And I remember going in and going to a hotel
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: and getting, they would comp us our dinner. So we'd
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: get a comp and go eat dinner at one of
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: the hotels. I remember meeting the security guard He gave
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: me a comp. I went, ate dinner. And then I
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: got out. You're talking about foot patrol. I got out
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: to walk my food off about an hour or so later.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: And I go in the Flick Motel. And it was
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: one of those kind of triple X kind of movie theater.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And the same security guard that gave me the comp
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: was getting a blowjob from a young guy in one
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: of the back seats in his uniform.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: Wow. Comp and dinner, huh? Yeah. So he's just sitting
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: in the back getting a butt job? And what do
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: you do? Do you go in there? Are you wearing
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: like a shades? Are you hiding in the distance? What
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: are you doing? No, no.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: So I hated having to do that because I was
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: a rookie at the time. And like you walk in
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: there and your boots are like sticky because, you know,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: all the kind of disgusting.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: It's just kind of gross. I don't clean the place up.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: There it is right there.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, the flick? You can still see the flick? Yep,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: that flick. Yeah.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: And were there live sex shows in there?
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: No, there weren't. There was a movie theater, but they
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: would want the rookies to walk through it so that
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: stuff like that wouldn't happen.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: But what was weird was that this guy felt he
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: was comfortable enough to go in in his uniform and
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: get a blowjob, you know, in a movie theater. Yeah.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Like not even take his uniform off and go inside.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And that was like that Wild West mentality. Vegas, on
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: that same street, maybe a couple of weeks later, and
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: this would happen frequently, I got a call of a
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: person not answering their door at their hotel room. go
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: up to the hotel room, security with the pass key. Wow,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: it's scary. Opened the door. They opened the door. This
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: dude was butt naked on the bed, completely bloated. He was,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: we say, 419. which is the code for a dead
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: body completely dead he I think rigor had he might
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: have started turning purple if I recall but he was
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: definitely dead and he had a picture of his family
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: on the nightstand so fast forward to the end of
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: what happened was this guy came to Vegas on a
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: like a conference or something like that. He has a
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: beautiful family, picks up a hooker, tries to have sex
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: with her. Heart pops and he dies. She leaves him
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: and she leaves with all of his stuff. And then
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: that's the legacy that he leaves for his family. And
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: it was almost like it was movie-like because on the nightstand,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the guy carried a picture of his family and put
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: it on the nightstand. And then I can see his
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: dead fat body with his little * * * *
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: sticking out. And his kids with his wife's picture is
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: right there. And you think about that kind of stuff. Like, see,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: when we talk about this police thing, I think that
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: death is the recurring theme and it gets scary. Like you,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: cause you see so much, like I would look at
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: a dead body and I'd be like, did that guy
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: realize that that was the last time he was going
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: to put on those underwear?
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: That's the last time that he realized that he was
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: going to do that.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Brush his teeth, put lotion on his limbs or whatever.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, dude.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: That's yeah. Sometimes I think like, like, um, I have
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: like a moment each day kind of where it's like,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: sometimes it is kind of putting on your socks. You're like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: what if this is the last day? You know, I
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: think because that's one of the moments you're kind of
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: suiting up for the day. I'll have moments like that. Yeah,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: what is that kind of, I guess if you see
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of death, how does that change your perspective
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: or do you think it does for officers or even
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: just you personally?
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: One time I was on a call where a guy
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: hung himself and I was second to arrive and there
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: was another cop in there and the guy was there.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: He had cut him down but left the ligature around
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: his neck because they didn't want to make sure that
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: it was actually a And the guy was just dead.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And the cop was there playing with the guys. Because
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: a lot of people in Vegas have those video poker,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: little handheld video poker things. I mean, because this was
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: a repeat. They don't do it on their phone. And
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the cop was just sitting there. He was just talking
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: to me like, yeah. And the guy was dead there.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about stuff from the beginning of my career
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: more so. Because I think that that really kind of
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: formulated how my mind looked at death. And it's evolved some,
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: but those things stand on my mind. And I was like,
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: how's this cop? sitting here playing this video game. And
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: I was like, that's why he's playing the video game. Right.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: That's why he's playing the video game because he's got
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: to sit up here with this guy.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: He needs an escape.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: What do you want to sit here and look and
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: keep taking the guy's pulse? Or yeah, it would be hard.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It would be crazy if he's sitting there.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, anything else besides trying to occupy his brain.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: You know, that same time period in my career, it
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: also taught me a lot about what we do with
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: our loved ones. At the last moment, there was a
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: recall on domestics. You get a lot of recalls. There
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: was this lady, Okay, and on domestics you mean by...
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Domestic violence, yes. Domestic violence, and there was a recall,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: you said. It's a recall. A lot of times you
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: end up having to go back to the same address
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: multiple times.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a recall. So we got a recall
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: back out to so-and-so.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: And I remember it was really, really pretty, kind of,
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing, because I was maybe in my early 20s,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going to guess this lady was about 30-something, really,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: really pretty, light-skinned black lady, and she had some kids,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: and she had recently been divorced. And so she got
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: the two... She was a son and a daughter. Daughter
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: was about 14 and the son was about maybe nine.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I'm just guessing these ages. And I remember these kids
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: would like be so mean to their mom because the
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: divorce caused them to pick sides because the mom ended
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: up with the custody of the kids. And the dad
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: was a pretty violent guy and she would always call
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: if he was coming through. And I remember going and
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: the kids were just so mean to their mom. After
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: maybe a third recall, There was a call to the residence.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I was just about to get off on graveyard of gunfire.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: And I showed up and the mom was laying on
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: the sidewalk, shot in the face by the dad. And
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: the kids were screaming, my mom, what am I going
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: to do without my mom? I mean, just screaming. You
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: can feel that go through your whole body. But you
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: have to remain professional. In my mind, I'm saying, but
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: you never said that to her when she was alive.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you know? Why didn't you? I didn't say
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: that to them because these kids are going through trauma.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Why didn't you say that to them, to her when
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: she was alive? So, you know, when I when I
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: talk to people about policing, you know, it's nice to
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: tell stories. But is there a lesson that I can
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: learn from this? If someone watches, that's why I really
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: like you, man, because people relate to you, dude. And
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: like there's some kid or someone watching this that's like
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: maybe going through something. And if they can take that
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: away that, you know what, I'm going to say I
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: love you or I'm going to hold back. yelling and
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: being rude to you just because I'm having a bad day,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: then this, you know, to me is a win. Yeah.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's hard for children to learn that. I
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: think one of the things that I think, I don't
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: have any children. I've been a child, but I don't
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: have any children. But I think one of the things is,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: nobody teaches you kind of how, you know, a lot
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of times to interact, you know, how to express your feelings. Like,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: and I think a kid, they, you kind of feel
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: like they just are going to know those things naturally,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: you know, how to talk to their, I mean, I
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: think parents probably talk about how to speak to your mother,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: how to speak to your father. But I think sometimes
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: there is this missing element sometimes of like how to
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: feel what a feeling is, you know, like, kids may
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: be confused. They may think something's anxiety for a lot.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: And it's really just a feeling, you know, it's like,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I think some of that, I think there's a missing
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: piece of education there and I'm not even blaming it
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: on parents or anything. I think it's just a part
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: of our, maybe our culture, um, that could be more
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: expanded upon and maybe even a classes in school. I
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: know it sounds crazy.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't. It sounds real. Yeah.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: But if somebody would have taught me in school how
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: to recognize if one of my friends might be struggling, right.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Or how to like, you know, approach an issue. If
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: there's some, you know, some type of thing goes on
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: or if somebody's, um, you know, uh, like how I'm
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: feeling about shit. I think that could have been super helpful.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I agree 100%. And as we get older, I think
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that we learn how to do it better, but there's
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: so many young people suffering. And, you know, I hate
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: to use the word term bullying cause it sounds kind
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: of corny, but like, I don't like bullying in any way,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: shape or form. There's someone going through something so difficult.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: We have no idea how, you know, that saying that says,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a very
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: hard battle. You know, I don't go to Vegas as much.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: You know, I go to Vegas a couple of times
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: out of the year for just different things. Cause obviously
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: I still have some roots there, but even being a
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: New Yorker, I spent so many years there. The last
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: time I came to, went to Vegas or maybe it
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: was last time, my daughter picked me up, right? My
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: oldest daughter picked me up. She's amazing. All my kids
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: are amazing, but my oldest daughter picked me up and
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: she says, we're coming back from the airport and we
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: drive by this apartment community. And without even thinking- By
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: an apartment community? Yeah, by apartment community. And without even thinking,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, because when you're a cop, you're like, okay,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: that happened there, that happened there, that's all you think about.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: And I remember I said, I said, I'm going to tell,
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: I told her the story that there was this pizza
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: delivery guy. His girlfriend- went to pick him up from
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: work and she rode on him on his last delivery.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And these guys come out from the bushes and rob
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and shoot and kill him. I was the first to arrive.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I get there and this girl grabs my arm and
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: she's saying, wake him up, wake him up. And you don't,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: this is in the Bible. There's a story where this
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: woman walks by and I'm not saying that I'm Jesus
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: by any shape, but with a woman touched Jesus and
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: he said he felt, you know, he instantly turned and
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: knew that he was touched. There's power that goes through
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: people when they're going through things. And like, that's why
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: I feel like being a cop, For that long, I
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: don't know that the human psyche is meant to be
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: able to deal with going through that. It's like you
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: go to work, you're like, okay, give me a conflict. Okay,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I'm done with that one. Give me another conflict. All right,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: I'm ready. Give me another conflict. I go to lunch,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: then I go home and got to deal with my
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: own conflict. You know what I'm saying?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: And you have to go to lunch, dude. What kind
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: of lunch goes with a homicide?
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Burning you know like yeah oh yeah i'll have nuggets
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: after a burning like but then you still have to
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: eat right but it's like yeah you see fucking ronnie's
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: having you know eight pack of nuggets and i was
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: like dude calm down you fucking had four drownings this
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: morning and you're out here just nuggeting up yeah i
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: can't even imagine i would be so it'd be crazy
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to see a pairing menu for crimes and then different
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: you know i think if there's a couple b and
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: e's or whatever you know yeah i'll have a fucking
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: appetizer you feel.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Me b and e you mean breaking and entering yeah
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to work back with you, dude. I got you.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I got you. Here's a dirty little secret that the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: insurance industry may want to keep under wraps. Insurance companies
• 28:39
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• 28:44
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• 29:01
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• 29:05
  Speaker 1: recent client in Pennsylvania just received $ 29 million. Insure's best
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• 29:17
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  Speaker 1: slash Theo or dial pound L-A-W. That's pound 529. That's
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• 29:52
  Speaker 1: a paid advertisement. No, well, we had a detective on
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: one time, and we talked a lot ad nauseum about
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: the stress that a lot of officers feel. He told
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: this amazing story about he got called to a scene,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and the mother's in the yard saying, I think my
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: son is thinking of committing suicide. They look in the doorway.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: The guy takes his own life with a shotgun, shoots
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: himself in the head. Now he has to go back.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Now he's standing there talking to the mother when it happens.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: He's saying, now this happened. So he has this thing
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: with the mother. He still has to go inside and
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: make sure everything's okay. Like, is that exactly what happened?
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Who knows if somebody's still in there with a weapon?
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: You just don't know. He can't get the door open
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: because the body's right there. He finally is able to
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: get it open, maneuver, and part of the matter from
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the guy's head falls down the back of his shirt.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Disgusting.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: So now he still has to deal with the other.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: He has to fill out reports. It's four hours before
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: he even gets to think about And the whole time
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: he has like, you know, but yeah, I just, you
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: guys are like the drain of society. You guys have
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: to be this catch all in this. You have so
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: many responsibilities.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: It's tough. It really is. You know, and there's a
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: story that, that story that you just told me reminded
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: me of. And again, it's a nexus to about how
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: we treat humans.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: What's a nexus mean?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Nexus is like a connection to. So, so when one
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: thing connects to another thing. Okay. So the, Because the
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: story that you told me reminded me of this story
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: where I negotiated this guy. So I get a call.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I was a sergeant, actually, at the time. So I
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: ended up negotiating because I was part of this crisis
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: intervention team. So I go from Southeast Area Command all
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: the way to downtown. It was Valentine's Day, February 14th.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: A lot of people end up attempting or committing, we'll say, 405.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Our term for that, unlivening themselves, is 405. They 405.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: on these holidays or at cemeteries sometimes. But this guy's
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: on Fremont Street, about 14th and Fremont, walking up and down.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: And he's got a gun in his hand. And so
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: they pull me into the scene. They put me in
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: a car and I'm like, the guy, I mean, the
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: guy was like about maybe about 12 or 13 feet
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: that way. When we first drove by, I'm like, dang on, bro.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You're going to drive me so close. He was so close,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: but they, they ended up pulling behind this because it
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: was really kind of a haphazard thing. Cause the patrol
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: officers pulled up on him. He had no one call.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: I think the guy just, the patrol officer pulls up something.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: The perimeter was set up kind of weird. So they,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: we pull up and I, you know, I get to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: a safe distance behind. And so I start, on the PA,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: talking to the guy.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: So you're the negotiator.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm talking to the guy. You're the responsible one.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I'm the responsible one, right?
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: And so I'm saying to him, and then I look
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: at the guy, he looks kind of Latino, so then
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I start saying, I said, maybe I'll say it in Spanish.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: So then in Spanish, I start giving, you know, saying
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: to him, listen, you know, giving him the whole thing, right?
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: And he keeps starting to raise the fire. And I
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: keep going like this because all, you know, these guys,
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: you know, officers with their rifles on him, and I'm like,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: this guy's going to get, and I can see him
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: talking to him. And then one time he lifts, they
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: light him up. So we all just run across the street.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: And these weird things happen when you're in a very
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: critical situation like that. I remember one of the first
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: things I noticed was that his pinky was shot off
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: when I first got up to him. So we get
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: the scene, calm down. And then I see also in
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: his boot he had a Derringer, a little small. 22 Derringer.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: The gun that he had was not real. It was
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: a replica firearm, if I recall. It was a pellet,
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: something like that. This is what's called side-by-cop. I don't
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: know if you're familiar with that term.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Now I am. Now I totally understand it. They trick
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: you into shooting them.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Right, because they don't want to do it themselves. What? Yes. Well,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: some people, because for religious reasons, they feel like if
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: they kill themselves, that's the last act that they committed.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Or some people just don't have, I guess, I don't
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: want to say courage.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: It's ballsy to unalive yourself.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, it is. So 405 is a serious thing. So
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: those are some replica firearms. It was legit. I shot
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: a guy with one of those, by the way.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: That's a six-hour, right? I have a six-hour. I kind
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of prefer a Glock.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a personal preference. I have a few different guns.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: My favorite gun is my AR pistol, though. I mean,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not a big gun person, but I strongly believe
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: in protecting mine.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, for sure. That's why I like living in
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: a state where you can have a weapon, too. It's nice. Yes.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: So in that instance, say you're talking to somebody, it's
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: a hostage negotiation situation, right?
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, but let me just tell you one other part
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: of that story that I meant to tell you. Forgive me.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, go on.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: So what happened was we had to go to coroner
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: inquest for that. And we all go and we tell-
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: You had to go to what? It's called a coroner's
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: inquest where everyone gives testimony.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Okay, is that the same day? No, no, no, it's.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Sometime after because homicide has to collect their information and everything.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: And mind you, this is some weeks later. So this lady,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: after all the officers and everyone testify- This lady walks in.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: No one knows who she is. And she's in like
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: this kind of like plain Jane kind of outfit. And
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: she walks up to the front and it's almost like
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: a movie scene because it's so quiet because I didn't
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: know who she was. And she gets up. They swear
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: in or whatever. And she says, I just want you
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: to know that while you guys were on the police side,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: this person was my brother. I'm not here to try
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: to defend his behavior. I just came so officially you
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: know that someone loved him. And then she got up
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: and she left. And so to me, it's like you
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: never know what someone's going through in life. When you
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: go with the whole road rage thing or whatever, maybe
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: that person, let me cut them a little bit of slack.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Let me cut them a little bit of slack. And me,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I'm raising my hand. I'm very, very guilty.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure. All of us are. It doesn't sound
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: like you're trying to exclude yourself. It's just like, yeah,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: it's funny. You get so active. And so animated, it's
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: hard to sometimes have that control, you know?
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: And self-control is such a huge thing. But God, that's
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: a powerful moment. I just wanted you to know that
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: somebody loved this person.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was deep, man.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because otherwise you just see this person. A lot
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: of times you don't even get a story. You don't
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: even know their story. You just pull up somebody's deceased.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Somebody's killed someone. Somebody's tried to take their own life.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: What's that moment when you're negotiating, right? And you were,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: so do you have a weapon on the person or
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you don't have a weapon on them? You're kind of.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: No, so negotiation happens in a lot of different ways.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: That's not, that's atypical way. Because from the negotiation team,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: they set up a command center, the whole nine yards.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: You're very far back. I mean, sometimes you don't get
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: on the phone for maybe an hour, you could be
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: two hours later. That situation was a very critical situation
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: where they needed someone who had training on the scene.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: So what's kind of fun that I've been able to
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: deal with those kinds is, and also the kind where
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: you're in the tactical operation center. So, you know, another
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: one of those kind of dynamic situations was a guy
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: who was inside, had a gun, his neighbor called, and
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I was negotiating, and it's called a face-to-face, but we
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: weren't really face-to-face because we don't do face-to-face. It's like,
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: it's incredibly dangerous, but I was actually in patrol at
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: the time, and I was the first to arrive, and
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I ended up getting a rapport with this guy, and
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I talked to him and talked to him, and we,
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: I developed, you know, I, I'm going to say liking
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: the guy, you know, and understanding what he was going through.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: He's going through, and you know, it's usually like three things,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: you know, it's a health issue, loneliness, you know, family
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: loss and a financial issue or a medical issue. It's
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: any one of the various things. And he was going
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: through like maybe all of those things. And I remember
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: talking to him and I'm like, and he says, you
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: know what? We got to a point where he said,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to come out, but I want
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: to come out and I want, I want to talk
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: to you. Will you walk me to the ambulance? Cause
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I told him he was going to go to the
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: ambulance and get transported. And I did that. And I
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: stayed with him at the ambulance. The ambulance people come
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: out to me and they say, hey, officer, you might
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: want to come see this. I go inside and inside
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: of his drawer, stacks of kiddie porn. Stacks of it. Now,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: mind you, I would talk this guy out of 405ing.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Right. You're talking out of unaliving himself. And then now
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you're like, look what I've done. Is that the thing
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: that's like, I kept this person alive?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: It's like you have this really kind of duality. I'm sure.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: If I had my choice, if I was able to
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: walk up on somebody and they were the Wild West,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I would probably.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: It's a very difficult, difficult situation to be in. And
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: you know, when you talk to a person for extended
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: periods of time, it's called Stockholm. Have you ever heard
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: of Stockholm Syndrome?
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Stockholm Syndrome. Let's bring it up. Let me read the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: definition of it because I always hear it and I
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: even say it. And I thought of, originally it was
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: people from Norway that got lost or whatever, I think.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: But let me think.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: It was a banker.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome is, what did you say?
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: It's a bank robbery thing.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's a bank robbery thing. Stockholm syndrome is a
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: psychological response where a hostage or victim develops positive feelings
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: or emotional attachment to their captor or abuser, often as
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: a coping mechanism during prolonged captivity or abusive situations. So
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like marriage or whatever, but it's like
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: very severe. And that's just a joke. But yeah, so psychologically,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: so that's interesting. Speaking of like that kind of thing,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: you hear a lot about child trafficking. You hear a
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: lot about trafficking. That is a buzzword right now for sure.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Did you see a ton of that kind of stuff
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: or is some of that– because I'm not saying it's–
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen. I know that there's a lot of things
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: like that, but is there a lot, is some of
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: that just heightened? Because we hear about it every single
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: day now. Did you see a lot of that sort
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: of thing or what do you see?
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: So, okay. Define child from your definition of child.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: That's a great question. So I guess you would think of, Right.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Did you see a lot of pedophilia or did you see,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: did you see like more like people just trafficking, like
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: prostitution type of that being run by pimps? Like what
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: did you see kind of like, what kind of.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Those things were separate, kind of separate, right? The pedophilia,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: you'd see like familial stuff like that, or you would
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: see like that guy that had the pictures inside the room.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a person running, you know, females. One time
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: I was, I was actually with the cops TV show
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: for this. In this episode, they couldn't air because of,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: We drove into the desert because a vagrant had found
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: a campsite and there was a person who was living
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: there and this guy, and I'm gonna assume it was
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: a guy because we never caught him, bought all of
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: these pornographic magazines. This is scary, man. He cut little
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: kids' faces out of other regular magazines and pasted the
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: little kids' faces on all these explicit magazines. So this
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: is the type of person you think would be like
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: a serial, like kidnapper, rape, like whatever. And the cops
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: didn't end up airing it. And I'm sure why, because
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: it was incredibly graphic and creatively weird and disgusting at
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: the same time. And we never, ever caught the guy.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Never caught him.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: What was the campsite like?
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: It was just a disgusting campsite in the desert area.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Because Vegas has a lot of desert areas. So especially
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: if you go like to the north, Northwest area and
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: vagrants kind of hang out there, kind of a little
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: near Nellis Air Force Base.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Like jugs of pee-pee, stuff like that? Like just like stuff,
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: like food stuff sitting around? It's like somebody just.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Exactly like that. You know, old cans, beer bottles, soda bottles.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: There was like a sleeping bag and stuff like that.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: That's so bizarre.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of like as far as like a
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: perverted type of thing you see. And it's kind of crazy,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: like it's crazy what happens mentally to people that they
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: that that becomes something for them, you know, like what
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: sickness happens inside of them, you know? And a lot
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: of that you hear too is cyclical, I think, right?
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. And you know, that's one of the
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: things that I saw. Yeah. So that the one that
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: was molested ends up molesting.
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Is that true? Let's look up what percentage of people
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: that get molested end up becoming molesters. And I don't
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: know if that's the right terminology, but you always hear that.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: So let me see if I can get a little
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: bit of information with that right now. Trevin, if you
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: have something. I just wonder if that's fact or fiction.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I think it would probably be significant.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: There is widespread belief in a cycle of child sexual abuse,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: but little empirical evidence for this belief. The aims were
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: to identify perpetrators of such abuse who had been victims
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: of pedophilia and or incest in order to ascertain whether
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: subjects who had been victims become perpetrators. The results among
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: 747 males, the risk of becoming a perpetrator was positively
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: correlated with reported sexual abuse victim experiences. The overall rate
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: of having been a victim was 35% for perpetrators and
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: 11% for non-perpetrators. Of the 96 females, 43% had been victims,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: but only one was a perpetrator. A high percentage of
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: male subjects abused in childhood by a female relative became perpetrators.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: That's interesting. Having been a victim was a strong predictor
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: of becoming a perpetrator, as was an index of parental
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: loss in childhood. Wow. The data supports the notion of
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: a victim-to-victim cycle in a minority of male perpetrators. but
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: not among the female victims studied. That's interesting that some
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: of them also, having become a victim of a strong
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: index of parental loss, that sometimes you do that if
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: you lost a parent.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. I don't even know why that would happen.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Huh.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Just kind of interesting, because you always hear that, you know,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: that it happens a lot in males, and then you
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: see that it happens a lot in males, but not
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: as much in females. In Vegas, yeah, you run across...
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: you know, everybody's there to have the craziest time, right?
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Everybody's there to have, you know, bonkers times. And I'm sure,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and there's tons of like prostitution, sex work, girls who
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: were just partying for money. I mean, there's everything there.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: The prostitution on Vegas is just off the meter. Is it?
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: A lot of people think that it's legal in Vegas.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: It's not legal in Vegas. It's legal a little bit
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: north in Nye County. You can go to the, there's
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: a chicken ranch and there's other places that people can go.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: But in Vegas, it's illegal. It's a misdemeanor, but it's
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: still illegal. But inside the clubs, inside the casinos, I mean,
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: there's tons of girls who are working. And most of them,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: not most of them, a lot of them work for pimps.
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: Oh, they do?
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: A lot of them do.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: What's that kind of connection? Would you see that sometimes? Like,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: does the pimp come and drop them off? Does the
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: pimp put them, does he, like, Uber pool them or whatever? Like,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: how do they get the hook, the women down to
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: the strip or whatever? Is the pimp down there?
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: So- There's a thing, well, pimps a lot of times,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: from a pimp perspective, they have a stable of women
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: and they'll go from place to place to place. Like
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: they'll go to Miami and bring their girls to Miami
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: to work. They'll bring their girls to New York or
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Vegas or whatever. And these girls are called, I don't
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: like the terminology, but they're called carpet holes or holes
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: that actually work inside of casinos. And they'll walk inside
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: the casino on the carpet and they'll go make their money,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: come back and give it to the pimp. Then you
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: have the lower level prostitutes, which are the ones that
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: work the tracks. And a track is a place where
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: it's known for prostitution, and Vegas and every other major
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: city has tracks. And lower level pimps will drop their
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: girls off on the tracks, and then they'll walk the
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: track and make their money. Then you have the ones
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: that are the call girls who work out of the books,
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: and they're the most high level females that a person
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: can interact with.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: The people who drop them off at the tracks, what
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: kind of vehicles do pimps drive? Do they still drive like,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: these crazy classy cars where they drive a van.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I'm still, I'm retired. So now it
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: may have changed, but I can tell you that in
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: the time when I was working, those, their cars stood out.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: It wasn't like the 1970s pimp mobile type vehicles, but
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: you would see the nicer, you know, escalades or whatever
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: types of vehicles, but you could, we would know because
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're on a Boulder highway, which is
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: a really, really kind of seedy area, especially where the
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: track is by five points, Boulder highway, it's called, it's
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: called Boulder highway, five points.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Because five points of the city intersect at that location.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: And that's a track. It's still a track.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's see that. Boulder Highway, five points.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because sometimes if I go, I'll drive just to
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: see what places are still popping.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, brother. A lot of the pimps, are they,
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: what types of guys are they? Black men? Are they
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Asian men?
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Black men. It is. Black males are mostly pimps.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: So that's more, it's a black culture.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: Yes. Right.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: It's a black culture thing.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: You didn't know that?
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: I've seen, I've thought that. because the pimps that I've met,
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I've only maybe met three pimps, but Two and a
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: half of them, or one of them was mixed, but
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: two of them were full or potentially full black.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: But even in rap culture, you can hear people talk
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: about pimp culture. Oh, yeah. So it's like very, it's
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: very clear that that's a subculture of.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: I just didn't know if it was also Chinese or
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Russian type of thing, you know. Do you see a
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: lot of that Vietnamese stuff?
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: No, not in my career. I didn't see that. But
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: in New York, I know that, you know, the Russians
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: have a lock on a lot of different vices in
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: New York. That didn't really translate into Vegas as much.
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: At a certain point, do you let the women trick?
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Do you let them do whatever they got to do
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: out there? Like, I mean, what do you kind of,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: you just want to make sure they're safe at a
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: certain point? If you know the crime is going to
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: go on, right? If it's a kind of a fluid
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: crime that happens regularly, is there more of a idea like, okay,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: we just want this to happen safely? Or is it
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: more of an idea of like, we want to stop this?
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: So it's a very good question. So there's only so
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: much you could do, right? So the primary responsibility for
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: a patrol officer is to respond to calls for service.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: So I'm gonna speak to when I was a patrol officer.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: And I'm talking about prostitution.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: Right, for prostitution. So, I mean, you see two or
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: three prostitutes walking up and down the street. I mean,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: you can only stop one. But most of the time,
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: they would if they sort of patrol car, they would
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: just keep walking. And if I hung out in the
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: area long enough, they would realize that no trick is
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: going to stop and pick them up. So you could
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: affect it like that, but then you get a call
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: for service and then you got to leave. And then
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: they're going to be back doing exactly what they want
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: to do. Is it, was it a crime that I
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: was really super concerned about? No, it wasn't, but it
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: looks bad when I'm part of the responsible party of
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: keeping that area safe. And you know, if you have
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: a prostitution situation going on either, something else is going
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: to occur connected to that. Either she's going to get
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: beat up or she's going to steal his money. A
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: lot of times they would do that to guys. If
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: they felt like they could take their money because the
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: guy wouldn't report it to the police, that would happen
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: for low level, for people who wanted to buy drugs too.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: You would get these kids from the Midwest to come there. Oh,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: they're in Vegas. Okay, we go down on Fremont. Let's
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: go buy some whatever they want to buy. I'm going
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: to fill in the blank of whatever drug it could be.
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: They would just rob them. They would give them whatever
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: and they'd say go. Call the police. And then what
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: are they going to do? They're not going to call
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: the police. And then you got all of this crap
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: going on and it looks bad. It's like, why? Why
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: are tax dollars paying for the police if we're not
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: going to keep the area clear? So I think to
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: answer your question, what I would do mostly is I
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: would leave the prostitutes alone with the exception of interacting
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: with them to say, hey, it's time to clear out.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Do officers respond to in-casino activities or do in-casino security
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: respond to those so that it's not a public thing? Right.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: So the casino security are pretty high level. They're pretty
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: well trained. They handle what they can, but they can't
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: arrest anyone. So if it's a felony, we have to
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: come and take care of it. For most misdemeanors, a
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: lot of times they would give a person a warning
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: or I got called to casinos a lot of times
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: for a lot of different things. I mean, because people
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: get drunk high. I told you if we have dead bodies,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: obviously the police have to respond to dead bodies.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: That's crazy.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. And a lot of times people die in
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: these casinos.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: What do they die? Overdoses probably?
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: A lot of times it's overdoses.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: And is it a lot of times just people doing
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: cocaine by themselves? What is it you think?
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: So let me speak to the things I can specifically remember.
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: So Sometimes it's been just over partying, overexertion of their heart.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And it could be a combination of using drugs, trying
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: to have some sex that they weren't capable of doing.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: But a lot of times it's an overexertion and trying
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: to put too much in a weekend and thinking that
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Vegas is going to be the panacea to whatever they
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: had going on in their life back in Minnesota. And
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: it wasn't. Yeah.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Was there ever like a murder in a casino? No.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: A murder in a casino. No, I don't. I've never
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: ever responded to a murder in a casino. I've responded
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: to a lot of different murders. But in the Patroka's Pasadena,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of times those murders were either a robbery.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: The really sad ones were obviously the domestic violence ones.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: But the casinos, they did a pretty decent job of.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: the ones that casinos that I dealt with of kind
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: of monitoring their clientele. They've done the Vegas because you don't,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: you get issues like that. And then people are not
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: going to come back to your casino. Vegas is run
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: by money. And most of the directors of these casinos
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: are people who were prior who were cops before.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's true.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: It's just like, um, yeah. People that lobby and people
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: that work in Congress, like you're only so far from
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: the other side. It's like, once you know so much
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: about being an officer at a certain point, the criminals
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: might hire you because you know so much about being
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: an officer. It's like, So many things are kind of
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: simpatico like that. What about, did prostitutes offer cop stuff
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: a lot? Does that happen or no?
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there were some cops that have gotten in trouble
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: for getting some of the prostitution stuff on the side.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: And that's another thing is that, do you ever heard
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: the term badge bunnies? So it's not just prostitutes. It's
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: just a lot of times women in general would offer
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: police stuff. you know, sexual activities. Yeah. Activities.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. A lot, a lot of the chicks over by,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: we had a footlocker boss. A lot of chicks over
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: there was always trying to slurp on the cops or whatever.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: My, my, one of my tack officers, the guys who
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: teach you when you're in academy said, um, this badge
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: will get you a whole bunch of coochie, but one
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: coochie will take that badge away. Damn. And it's true.
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: And what a lot of, a lot of officers still like, whatever,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: this is part of my.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: I had a cop on time. This dude was super
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: squared away. I mean, Tall, good looking. I mean, straight
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: out of Central Casting. And I'm definitely not going to
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: say his name. I had a ton of respect for
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: this guy. For sure. In fact, I think he was
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: good enough to almost play professional baseball, if I recall.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: I was his boss at the time. And he goes
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: on a call. And this girl, he was supposed to take,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: I think, a burglary report, if I recall. And he
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: ends up hooking up with the girl. And realizes... that
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: he screwed up. And so, and the girls, I guess,
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: having feelings for him. And so like how he ends
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: up going and putting like a hoodie on and going
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: and trying to buy the morning after pill at a
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: convenience store or whatever, or CVS, wherever you can buy
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: the morning after pill. And he had called me and said, Hey,
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I'm not feeling well. Can I get off early? And
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: I just, this guy was so sharp. I was like, yeah,
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: go ahead. Go, go home. And so he tells the
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: girl he wants her to take the morning after pill.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: And then she ends up- Calling the police. Calling the police.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: And then it turns out- No. And he lost his
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: job over it. And then there's a video of him.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: This is like a married guy with a hoodie on
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: going in buying a morning after pill. And it was
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: that temptation. Story involving me. I went on a call.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: It was a loud music call. And it was all
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: these girls that came in drunk from a party. All
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: really- Hi, girls. And it was like three of us
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: on the call. And we told them to turn the
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: music down. And this beautiful girl looks at me and
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: she says, and they're like, oh, she got her navel pierced.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: She got her navel pierced. And I was like, oh, cool.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: And she goes like this. She goes, look, and pulled
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: a dress up, no panties on, and showed me her
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: navel piercing. Yeah. That kind of stuff happens.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: And what do you do?
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just kidding.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Can you look or not?
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Of course. I mean, she was standing right there. I
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: just said, no, we're going to leave. You know, you
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: got to be professional and you got to go. But
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: you're going to get that kind of stuff all the time.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, there was a time, I mean, you write
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: people tickets, they track you down and you want to,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: you know, meet up or connect or whatever. There are
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: people who just have a thing for police.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: Is it hard to say no to that type of
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: thing now at some points?
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: No, because you get off shift. I mean, you get
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: off shift and you can, you know, meet the person
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: after you don't have to try to do it on duty.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: Oh so you could still do it at off duty.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: It depends on what kind of situation right there were
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: guys now there are cops who have banged the the
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: white they will this happens stories happen more than once
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: where a guy a cop arrests a guy the husband
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: for domestic violence and hooks up with the wife that's
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: happened more than once.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: What's that called Is there a felony?
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, a bad business? I mean, it's just, it's
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: really bad business.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was wondering if there's a term for that.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's bad. It's a very, very bad thing.
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: What are some of the, I heard you talk about
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: earlier with the guy, or maybe it was drug use
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: where it was Valentine's Day, I guess. The Valentine's Day guy, yeah.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Is that a scary time? Like, what's like one of
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the most dangerous holidays?
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: New Year's Eve. Really? I didn't like working New Year's
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: Eve because so many people shoot guns in the air
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: and all kinds of stuff like that. And I remember
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: I went on a call one time.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: A lot of it's Mexican people, I think.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying any. And whites. Well, the story that
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I went to is a lady, what goes up must
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: come down. Someone shot a gun up and a bullet
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: came down and was right in her boob. Yeah. So
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: that's a cautionary tale to people who go out and
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: shoot on Valentine's Day. Of course, we didn't catch the guy,
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: but yeah. So I didn't, and New Year's Eve is
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: just people getting wild and drunk and fighting. The one time,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: A person spit in my face was on New Year's Eve.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: A woman.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: What do you do then?
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: It was tough. I was about to retire, man. And
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: this girl was just incredibly drunk. You know, she couldn't
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: go into the casino. We end up getting her into custody.
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: My officers got her into custody. And I'm trying to
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: calm her down face to face. And she just spit
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: right in my face, man. I'm telling you, it took everything.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: You know, I saw my whole career passing through my.
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: And it was just... And she ended up getting booked
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: on that because, you know, that's a crime, obviously. And
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: we went to court and she was dressed up completely nice.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: And they offered her a deal if I would agree
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: to her getting the deal. And I gave her the deal, man.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Gave her the deal. People get drunk and do stupid things, man.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: It sucked. You know, not only does the smell and
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: all that other stuff suck, but what sucks is being
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: humiliated on Fremont Street. on New Year's Eve in front
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: of thousands of people and seeing people laughing at you
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: for being spit upon. It sucked, man. It really did.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: But you got to, you know, for me, you got
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: to learn to forgive, man.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're out there, though, in moments. Like, yes,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: you do. It's really, it's interesting because I feel like
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: we're at this juxtaposition sometimes in society where it's like,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: you know, yes, you want to treat people with respect. Yes,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: you want people to, you know, you want to believe
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: that all people are good. But then it also, it
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: starts to be like, it feels like the bad stuff
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: is winning sometimes.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: But I don't think that all people are good. I
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: think that we are human that are capable of doing
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: things that we don't even know that we're capable of doing.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: I have this thought that if placed in the right
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: or wrong circumstance, a person that you would think would
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: not do a certain thing would do that certain thing.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: That's the thing about being human. That's the beauty of
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: free will, to some degree, in my opinion, right?
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: There's that famous case where someone was giving someone an order,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: like through a wall or something.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Can you find it really quick? Oh, and they were
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: asking to shock. Yeah, I think I know which case
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: you're talking about. Yeah, the Milgram experience.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: There it is. In 1961, a series of social psychology
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: experiments were conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, who
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: intended to measure the willingness of study participants to obey
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: with their personal conscience. Participants were led to believe that
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: they were assisting a fictitious experiment in which they had
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: to administer electric shocks to a learner, which was another person.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: have been fatal had they been real.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: What about the McDonald's one? Are you familiar with the
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: McDonald's case, the police case where the guy?
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Craziest thing I've ever heard.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: And just because he thought it was a cop, they
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: were willing to go to that degree.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: This is the craziest thing that ever happened. The strip
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: search phone call scam was a series of incidents mostly
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: occurring in rural areas of the U.S. that extended over
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: a period of at least 10 years, starting in 1994.
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: The incidents involved a man calling a restaurant or grocery store,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: and oftentimes it was a McDonald's, claiming to be a
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: police officer, and then convincing managers to conduct strip searches
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: of employees and to perform other bizarre and humiliating acts
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: on behalf of the police. I'm sorry to laugh, but
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: this shit is unreal.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: With every hoax, a male caller who identified himself as
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: a police officer would contact a manager or supervisor and
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: would solicit their help in detaining an employee or customer
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: who was suspected of a crime such as a theft.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: or drug possession. He would then provide a generic description
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: of the suspect, like, oh, it's a female employee, et cetera,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: which the manager would recognize. And then he would ask
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: the manager to search the suspected person. So basically, he's
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: had a guy calling up McDonald's. Eventually, the caller would
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: have groomed the manager to the point where they would
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: do almost anything asked by the caller, such as spanking, kissing,
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: inappropriate touching, oral sex, and even sexual assault. Many of
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: the incidents would last hours. I'm sorry, man. This is
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: not funny. I don't know what I think. There's something
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: about it that. Many of this is fucking crazy. It's like, okay, good.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: Many of the incidents would last hours before either of
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: the participants of the strip search realized the call is
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: a hoax or by the intervention of a bystander.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Do we don't even came is even crazier. This became
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: a form of porn that became super popular.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Yes. Where they were having it would look, it would
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: just feel me exactly like that. God. Yeah. I did
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: a deep dive on this whole thing. Yeah.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: This thing is fascinating. Um, Yeah. Basically they would call,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: they would have the manager, get the manager on the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: phone and they'd be like, uh, yeah, I'm calling with
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: the police. Um, we have security camera footage that one
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: of your employees has been stealing. They would give a
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: description of the employee. Then the manager would bring the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: employee into the back room with the police, alleged police
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: officer still on the phone and be like, okay, yeah,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I need you to have the employee take off their shirt. Right.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And a lot of times the person might have access
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: to the cameras in the in the McDonald's or in
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: the restaurant so they can actually watch this somewhere afar, right?
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they'd be like, yeah, now have the person
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: lift up their arms, have them take off their bra
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: or their pants or whatever, spread their leg. And you
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: have this– this is fucking crazy. You have a manager
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: at McDonald's and an employee at McDonald's. Now they're both
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: looking at each other's private parts for something they didn't
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: even say what they stole a lot of times.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Like, what are they going to, like, you know. And
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: one of them was a husband and wife. The male
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: manager and the female was a wife.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: That's the best. Yeah. The lady was like, oh, my God.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Because she was the manager. She's like, it's busy today.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: I have to get back to work. She's like, let
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: me call my husband.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Who I trust.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Yes. And let them do it.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: To come down here and finish this examination of this
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: female employee. So now you have the husband of the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: McDonald's manager sitting there strip searching a female employee who's
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: done nothing. The whole time there's a cop on the phone.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: It's been a couple hours now. And at one point
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: they told the woman, I believe, to blow job the man.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: So now you have somebody who allegedly stole from McDonald's.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: blowing the boyfriend of a man. I just, sorry, this
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: is crazy.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: I don't understand how they could go that far.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: And then at a certain point, the janitor literally gets
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: on the phone. Yeah, this is a part right here.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: On February 2003, a phone call was made to a
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: McDonald's in, I'm sorry, man, this shit. In Hinesville, Georgia,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: the female manager who believed she was speaking to a
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: police officer who was with the director of operations for
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: the restaurant's upper management, that she believed she was speaking to,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: took a female employee into the women's bathroom and strip
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: searched her. She also brought in a 55 year old
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: male janitor who conducted a body cavity search of the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: woman to uncover hidden drugs.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: It's just crazy. And then the J and I think
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: it was a different instance, but the janitor got on
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: the phone one time. It's like, Oh, this guy's just
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: screwing around.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: So then people are just standing there naked and like,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: what the fuck just happened? God, this is crazy that
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: this was just such a huge thing that happened. Can
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: you imagine that?
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: And it started, I couldn't believe it was true. I
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: could not believe it was true. And it started when
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: you were saying about the authority, right? Like just authoritative
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: voice or thinking that it's a police officer, that these
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: people will be willing to do that. It's unbelievable to me.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Is pornography causing a problem in your life? Do you
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: find yourself watching porno for longer periods of time and
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: having trouble stopping? Is porn affecting your relationship or dating life? Well,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: you're certainly not alone. Watching pornography has become so commonplace today,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: and oftentimes men use porn to numb the pain of loneliness, boredom, anxiety,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: and depression. Shame and stigma prevent men from talking about
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: these issues and getting help for them. I want to
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: introduce you to my friend Steve. Steve is the founder
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: of Valor Recovery, a program to help men overcome porn
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: abuse and sexual compulsivity. Steve is a long-term sexual recovery
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: member and has personally overcame the emotional and spiritual despair
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: of abusing pornography and has dedicated his life to empowering
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: men to do the same. Steve is an amazing person
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: and he is a close friend of mine.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: I mean that.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: Valor Recovery helps men to develop the tools necessary to
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: have a healthier sex life. Their coaches are in long-term
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: recovery and will be your partner, mentor, and spiritual guide
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: to transcend these problematic behaviors. To learn more about Valor Recovery,
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: please visit them at www.valorrecoverycoaching.com or email them at admin
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: at valorrecoverycoaching.com. Thank you. Yeah, can you take me on
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: a call that kind of baffled you or still sticks
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: with you?
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: This one is tough, man. So the call comes out,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: and this was a swing shift call. So it's usually
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: right before, you know, after 3 p.m. Swing shift is
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: 3 p.m. until about 1 a.m. So the night hour
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: is about 9 to 11 are the hours that things
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: really pop off. So this call comes out where these
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: guys are screaming on the phone, my brother's been shot,
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: my brother's been shot, my brother's been shot. It happened
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: at the Circle K. So I drive up to the
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: address of where it is, and these two guys are
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: on the sidewalk just wailing, like freaked out. I know
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: that's true. That's why it's hard for me to watch
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: TV shows, but these guys are truly in trauma, and
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: they're wailing. And I could see the car where they're
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: talking about. They're like, my brother, my brother, my brother.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: And I go to the car, and I get to
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: the window, and I see this guy had a lot
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: of hair. it was all matted and mush. And you
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: can tell that he wasn't moving. And, and I opened
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: and his face was just, cause he had been shot
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: in the head. His face was just mush. And it
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: was just all this nasty purple blood and everything. So
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: I closed the door and I go and I talked
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: to the brothers and he told me that they were
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: driving by the circle K and that someone shot at them.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: And I was like, it just didn't make a lot
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: of sense to me that, you know, the entry wound
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: was in the back of the head and, there's no
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: entry in the window of the car. What turns out
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: is it was three brothers in the car and the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: brother in the backseat was playing with the gun and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: he put it to his brother's head, joking around, and
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 2: he pulled the trigger and shot and killed his brother.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And so in that short period of time, the two
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: alive brothers have to figure out a story because this
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: happened very, very quickly. And I remember when I, because
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: the brothers ended up confessing to this, is The trauma
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: of killing your brother and then having to make up
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: a story about it and having to deal with that grief.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: One of the most wild, crazy things, because you do have,
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 2: it was an accident, but it's negligence. Right.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: But the biggest crime is that he has to almost
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: deal with this burden of killing his own brother. It
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: almost sounds Shakespearean or something.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: It is. It is. And you know, playing with guns
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: is another thing because one of the first calls I
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: ever had to translate on was, because we have AAA, well,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: I don't say we because I don't live there anymore,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: but in Vegas they have AAA baseball and they have
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: this AAA team. This guy had Tommy John surgery and
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: a Dominican guy had Tommy John and so he was
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: partying with his friends and they brought some girls over
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: and he was playing with a gun and shot this
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: young girl in the head. She was probably like 19
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: years old, killed her. And I walk into the, I
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: walk into the, I walk upstairs, I walk into the
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: apartment and the girl, her eyes were open and she
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: was just to the side like this. And the guy
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: is just like, he's completely freaked out and he's thinking
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: about his career.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: And so he didn't speak English. So I'm, you know,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: translating to him in Spanish. And I'm like, The stupidity, again,
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: of playing with a freaking gun. Life is done. I mean,
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: you're done. Your career is what you're thinking about right now.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: How do you live with that? Don't even think about
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: the legal stuff that you have to go through. Living
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: with the fact that you took this 18 or 19-year-old
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: girl's life because you wanted to show off and play
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: with a gun. There's another lesson. It's like, do not
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: play with freaking guns. They're not toys. They're really not toys.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: And so many people do. So many people do.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: It's ridiculous, dude.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: I would not.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a kid in high school, and there was,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: I guess, kids playing poker together, and he was messing
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: with a gun and shot himself. There were two brothers
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: in our town, and one of them, they were playing
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: Russian roulette together, and they were idiots. I'll be honest.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: They were dumb, not smart guys, and one of them
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: shot himself. I mean, what a weird moment. Then you're sitting...
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: You're the brother. You're like, what even... We could have
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: played hoops or something. You know, just like, it's heartbreaking, man.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Responsible gun ownership is good, but you know, when when
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: it comes to playing with guns or showing off with
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: guns yeah i mean it's it's just one of the
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: stupidest things that.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: You can possibly have you ever been involved in a
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: shooting yes.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: I have and in fact i was mentioning earlier yeah
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: if it's involved in two and i was a sergeant
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: on nine You were a sergeant on nine shootings? On
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: nine different shootings, yeah.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: So I've intimately- And a shooting means somebody shot somebody
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: or it means somebody shot an officer or it.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: Means an officer shot someone? It can mean any of those.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: But the ones I was involved in, and the one
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 2: that I specifically would reference is this interesting story. It
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: was a cop buddy of mine. This mom was taking
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: her kids out and having one of the kids make
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: a commotion and then the rest of the kids would
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: steal stuff and run out. So my buddy had a
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: warrant for- At a grocery store? More like those Target
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: type places.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: My buddy had a warrant for one of the people
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: in the family and he asked me to go with
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: him to serve it. And it was an arrest warrant.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: So we get to the apartment community and he thinks
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: he sees one of the guys involved in this thing.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: And the guy I remember, he had on these red
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: cargo shorts, a white t-shirt, wife beater. And he goes,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: that's the guy. So there's a thing that we do
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: is called contact cover where One officer does all the
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: talking and the other one covers to make sure that
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: the person's not doing anything.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay. So the guy up front can feel comfortable
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: knowing that the guy behind him, his sole purpose is
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: just to see if this dude tries to make a
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: single move.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: Yep. It's called contact cover. And so I'm with the
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: cover officer. And as I'm looking at the guy, I
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: see in his cargo pocket the outline of a gun.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: And so our code for gun is 413.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: So I made the fourth, I give 413 to him.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: So my guy sees it and he's like, oh, shoot.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: So the guy was being a no, so the reason, yes, people,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: no people, maybe people. And the guy was being a maybe,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: maybe person, like maybe I'll comply and maybe people, we
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: want to get them in custody. So I made the
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: choice that I knew I could tell it was the gun.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: So I made the choice that I went and I
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: grabbed it. And this guy yanked away from me and
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: he got away. And so the foot pursuit starts and
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: he reaches in to, his cargo pocket, and I'm running
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: after him, gun drawn. And this was around 4.35 o'clock
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: in Vegas, so it's still very light outside. And I'm
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: running after him, and he keeps turning around and looking
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: at me, and I keep saying, if you pull that
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: gun out of your pocket, I'm screaming, if you pull
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: that gun out of your pocket, and then he pulled
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: the gun, and I lit him up. I remember after
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: I shot that, you know, he does the somersaults, and
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: everyone in this place is screaming. At the target? At
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: the apartment complex. At the apartment complex. Everyone's screaming. And
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: this place was kind of anti-police. They're like, oh, he
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: shot that guy. He shot that guy. And the guy's
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: mom came out. She was one of the first people
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: to come out. He lived. It turned out that it
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: was a replica gun.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: It wasn't even a real gun.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: Replica. It was a replica that looked like a firearm.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: It was not even a real weapon.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: It was not a fireable weapon. It was a replica.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: It was a replica.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: That is even dumber than anything. But actually, it's a
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: blessing then.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: It makes sense. It makes sense.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: It makes sense to you.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: Why? Sorry. Because a lot of those guys, they'll rob
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: people with them.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: Or someone, you know, and he's a gang member. And
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: so a lot of times they'll flash those. Or if
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: they have the inability to get something, that's better than nothing.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: But it was just incredibly, and it became a race thing,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: which was really weird because I'm not white. you know,
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: but the media portrays things a certain way and it flips.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Was it a black perpetrator? Yes. Okay.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 2: Yes. He was, he is, he's still alive. Wow.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: And do you choose at that point? Are you trying
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: to maim someone? Are you trying to just slow them down?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: We shoot to incapacitate. We are taught to shoot center mass.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: But again, do you, are you, do you train running
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: at full speed through an apartment? There's a whole bunch
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: of different dynamic that come into play.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's gotta be kind of fascinating with a lot
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: of rate, Yeah, there's so much racial stuff surrounding police
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: and policing.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: What does that look like from the inside? What's that?
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: Because if it was a black group and you got
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: accused and you're Dominican?
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: No, I'm half black, half white. Oh, you are?
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. So you're black and white.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: Well, actually, both of my parents are kind of mixed.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: So I guess I'm, but I'm considering myself black. Yeah.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: But I speak Spanish because I learned to speak Spanish
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: as an adult. That was an intent of mine. I
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: respect cultures. I think that. and I lived in another
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: country that spoke Spanish, so I felt that if you
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: go into another country, you learn their language.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: I think that makes good sense. It just helps you probably, too.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, 100%.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and probably help you so much in your service,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, because immediately you can relate with somebody else.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: On a level that a lot of people wouldn't be
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: able to. Yeah, what is that profile? What is that, like,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: there's so much racial stuff that revolves around the police
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: all the time. Does that get uncomfortable out there in
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: the streets? What is it like?
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: It's really interesting because, you know, a lot of people...
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Being a white cop is really, really difficult. A white
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: male cop. Because so often the default is that you
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: did it because I'm this race and you're white. And
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: I was around cops for 20 plus years.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: And I.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Can only think of one instance, one instance where there
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: was an overtly racial thing that occurred. And it was
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: a comment that was made in a briefing room. And,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: but as far as the treating of a person because
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: they were a certain race, I've never seen that. And
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: I'm hypersensitive to that kind of stuff. Like I study that.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: In fact, I taught it for a while.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: And- What is that called?
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: So some people call it diversity. I call, my class
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: was called human and I called it the sole search warrant.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: And I think that we all have biases. All of
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: us have biases.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, for sure.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: And- I think that you as a comedian know that
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: part of those biases is what makes a lot of
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: comedy funny. And most black comedians, the first thing that
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: they talk about is how black people are a certain
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: way and white people are a certain way. I mean,
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: that's just kind of how we are. But we get
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: along and it works. But in policing to default that
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: because one person is one color and another person is
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: another color is the wrong way to look at it.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, this whole thing that happened with George Floyd.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking... billions of dollars and people who were,
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: the cities were destroyed and all that stuff. I have
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: yet to see a piece of evidence that Derek Chauvin
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: did that because George Floyd is black. I haven't seen that. Now,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: can I speak to the tactics? I can, of course,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: speak to the tactics. Right.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: But, right, was race involved or was it just a
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: guy maybe who didn't use the best tactics in the moment?
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: who was probably also scared, who knows what was going on.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what he testified.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: I studied that case.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: You did?
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: What did Chauvin say? I never looked at that.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: So I can tell you that, so here were the factors,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: and this is a big can of worms for us
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: to open up, but I'll speak to some specifics. Because
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: now there's a push that he should be released, right?
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: I've seen that recently.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: But you're a police officer. You've been a sergeant.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. So I'll tell you my thoughts on it. Do
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: you want to talk about that?
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: For sure. And you're black and white.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: So we can help.
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: All right. So I'll tell you. Here's my take on it.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: Because I have cops who say, oh, yeah, he was
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: wrongly convicted. He was wrongly convicted. I say, OK, let's
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: just set that aside for a second. You roll up
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: on that scene. And Chauvin has his knee on Floyd's neck.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: Tell me what you're going to do at that point.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: And he's not moving. What are you going to do?
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: And every one of them says, of course, I'm going
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: to tell him to get off. So I said, then
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: we need to start from that point about the sanctity
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: of a person's life. Let's forget about the fact that
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: George Floyd was likely on a very high levels of fentanyl,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: which was proven and all that other stuff. But we're
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: the professionals, right? We're the professionals.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Right, like at what point do you not, does the
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: governor inside of you not activate or trigger that it's like, okay,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: I have to go here from policing to being human,
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: Why can't policing be human, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: I'll give you an example, Theo. Check this out, right?
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Judge me on this really quickly, okay? This is a
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: typical car stop. I pull you over, Sergeant Curtis, Vaughn
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: Police Department, reason I pulled you over is because you
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: were speeding license registration and proof of insurance, please. Grade
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: me on that. A, B, C, D?
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: I would say B.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, you give me a B on that. A to B.
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: A to B, A to B, okay. So now you
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: go to a restaurant. I come up to your table.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hello, Mr.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: Vaughn.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: My name's Christopher. I'd like to tell you about our
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: specials today. We got a chicken, we have a fish,
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: and we have a new— Tiramisu. Grade me on that
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: as your server.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: A to B.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: So I'll tell you, I would not give that server
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: an A to B. And most servers are going to
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: come to you and be a lot more congenial than
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: I was to you. Yeah, probably.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: A little more energetic.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: A little more energetic, a little more congenial. Shouldn't policing
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: be even better? How about this? How you doing, sir?
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: Sergeant Curtis, Vaughn Police Department. I know this is probably
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: not what you want to be doing right now, but
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: I just want to explain something to you. We had
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: a little kid almost get hit the other day. and
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: we're pulling people over just to warn them to slow
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: down a bit. If you give me your license, registration,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: proof of insurance, I'll try to get you out here
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: as quickly as possible. I'm sure that you probably have
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: something else more important to do. I just want to
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: let you know that I'm here to help. That was maybe, what,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: 30 more seconds of words? Yeah.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: I'm on a date now. But it changes the whole,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: it changes the energy.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: It changes the whole thing. But this mechanics has changed.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: So what happened with this, let's go back to what
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: we were talking about with Chauvin and George Floyd, right?
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: When I watched the video, you definitely can see that
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: George Floyd was having some issue with being claustrophobic and
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: getting inside the vehicle, okay? Now, we're not saying that
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: it's made for comfort, and if you get arrested, it's
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: not gonna be a fun experience. But can we be
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: a little bit different? One cop said, I'll put the
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: window down. I'll put the window down. And you can
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: even see Floyd saying, I'll do the countdown. Let me
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: let me count down before I get inside the car.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Is it possible? Is it possible for us, especially if
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: the person's handcuffed, to reach down into a degree of
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: humanity to another human being and say, you know what?
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: Take a deep breath. I'll count with you. Can we
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: get you in the car then? Let me tell you
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: my name. My name is Sergeant Curtis. I don't want
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: to hurt you. Look at me in my face. Look
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: at me. Take a deep breath, my man. Okay, I
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: see you're breathing a little bit better now. You're going
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: to be going to jail and you got to get
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: in the car, but you got to work with me. Now, granted,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: I'm talking in an air conditioned place. I slept in
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 2: a great hotel last night and it's a lot easier
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: than being in the field, but I've been in the field.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I've been in the field and I've made mistakes,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: but we got to be better than kneeling on a
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: person's neck for that period of time. So the specifics
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: of what he was convicted for, I know that we
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: could pull it up and look at it. One of
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: the charges I believe he was convicted for was involuntary
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: second-degree murder, right? I don't believe he was trying to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: kill George Floyd. I don't believe he was trying to
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: kill him. But could his behavior have contributed to it?
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: Possibly.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: You're kneeling on a person's neck for that period of time.
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. And then you're like thinking of
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: what all is going around, around the environment at that moment.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: If people are, are you, do you get caught in a,
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: almost in, cause you're a human, you're still a human, right?
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: And if you're, do you get caught in some weird, um,
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: Flight or freeze thing?
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: 100%.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: You're 100% right. Because if you listen to the tape,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: there's a guy on the side that's yelling at Chauvin.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: He's saying, look what you're doing. Get off that man's thing.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: And then what happens is then it becomes a battle
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: between the officer and this other person. I'm standing my
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: ground and you're yelling at me and I'm the officer here.
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: And nine minutes or six minutes or whatever minutes it
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: was is really a mere second because I'm locked into
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: this as opposed to focusing on this person. That's why
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: bystanders to me, if you want to be a bystander,
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: stand back, record. But don't be yelling. You're not helping
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: the situation.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: That ruins a lot of things, I think.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: But then also it's like you wouldn't have, you know,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: it's just, it's so, it's fascinating. All the things that
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: go on in that moment and how equipped our police officers,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: how equipped our human beings to deal with all of
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: that at once. So now you're being recorded. You're in control.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: You're scared for your own safety. You should be scared
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: for the safety of your perpetrator or the person that
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: you're putting under arrest, you know, it just, it's, I
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: don't know how a human system even figures all that out.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you don't. And we see what happens when you don't.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: That's why mental health awareness is so important for police. It's, it's,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: it's so, so important and not to be stuck in that, that,
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: that just police ecosystem and have other things to do.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Cause that's what happened with that. In my opinion, that's
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: what happened with that Chauvin thing. Is what? That he
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: got locked into, I'm the officer, because police have this
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: thing called ask, tell, make. Ask, tell, make. You ask
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: them to do it, they don't do it. You tell
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: them to do it, then you make them do it.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: Got it. But that model only works sometimes. There is
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: a model. So the father of modern day policing is
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: a guy named Sir Robert Peel. Back in the 1800s,
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: he created the first modern policing in England.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: So Robert Peel, known as the father of modern policing
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: for establishing the first modern police force in London.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: That's why they call police Bobbies, because of after him.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, Robert. Yeah, Bobby Peel. Known as Bobby's Repealers. How
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: did Peel perform policing? Go ahead.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: So what he did was really interesting. He created this
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: thing where it was the principles of policing that really
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: the policing should be modeled after. I think that you
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 2: could probably pull those up, the nine principles of policing.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: But one of them that I find interesting and that
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I've always had, he talks about persuasion, advice, and warning.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: I remember because of PAW, persuasion, advice, and warning. So
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: while modern day police have asked, tell, make, Peel talked
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: of this thing called persuasion, advice, and warning. So, Is
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: it possible I could persuade this person? Obviously, if it's
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: a dynamic situation and I got to take care of business,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: then I have ask, tell, make always in my pocket, right?
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: I got a big tool belt. But is persuasion, advice,
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: warning something else I can put in my belt? Can
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: I potentially persuade this person? Because time is often on
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: the police officer's side. Persuasion, can I give them some advice?
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: Listen to me. Sir, listen, if you don't, the other
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: officers are going to come here and they're going to
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: make it more difficult. Don't you see that I'm working
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: with you? And we can work together and get this
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: thing done. We can do this together. warning. If the
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: other officers come and I step back, then they're going
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: to be a lot different than I am. This is
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 2: just another tool that the police can put in their
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 2: belt so that we don't have to get into the situation.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: I bet you, if Derek was to be able to
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: go back and think back, I bet you he would
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: have done things differently in my opinion.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure you kind of, what did he say
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: that he, what was his testimony? What were the key
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: points from his testimony from Derek Chauvin's? Did he have,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: did he take the stand? He decided not to testify
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: in his own defense, exercising his Fifth Amendment right.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: Wonder why they made that choice. Because you would think, oh,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: But he's got the federal case, the federal case, and
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: he's got the state stuff. And I think he has
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: another case running concurrently for tax evasion as well. So
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: he had a whole bunch of different things going. And
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that he was guilty of any of
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: all those things.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: No, I think you're just looking at what happened. But
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: it is fascinating how that turned into a racial thing, though,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 2: And I say that all the time.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: Is it true?
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Which which which case had that? Can we definitely
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: say that it was race? Which one is there? Very
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: difficult to find that case.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: And just because if you call, well, what percentage of officers?
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: I thought this. I thought that, well, each police department
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: should have five different races at it. And you call
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: and then that you get that race to come. Right.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: then that way nobody could ever say that again. I mean,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: that would be absolutely ridiculous, but it's like, is that
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: what we should, is that, you know?
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: I think it's that, I don't agree with that model
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: because I think that that separates us more and more.
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: But you go to any bar in downtown Nashville and
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: you're going to find people of all different races sitting
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: around and you might engage with a person. It takes
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: us back away from the content of one's character. I don't,
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: you know, what people call racism, I think that it's
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: more bias because- I agree. It's much more biased than
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: it is racism. I'll give you an example. I was
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: in the Vegas airport. This guy's walking in front of me.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: His pants are like sagging down and you could see
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: his underwear. What was really interesting was it was like
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: this really interesting floral print and socks matched his underwear.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: And I had a beer or two, so I was
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: messing with the guy. I was walking by, I said,
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: oh man, I said, dang, them underwear, nice. They look
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 2: good with it. And he turned around and he was like,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: who are you talking to? I mean, going off. And
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: then a TSA agent comes up and is like, what's
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: the matter? And he said, he's talking about my, and
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: this is me in civilian clothes. He said, he's talking
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: about my underwear. And the agent, the TSA agent says, well,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: they do match your socks. And the guy gets pissed
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: off and walks away. Now, you can picture this situation happening, right? Now,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: when you picture the situation happening, did you think it
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: was a black guy?
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. At first when you said pants sagging,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: But then when you said matching with the, and black
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: people like to match, so I thought that as well.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: Floral print, then I started to think maybe it was
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: like a white guy from maybe Milwaukee or something or
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Toledo or something trying to celebrate.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: But the point in the story, and it was a
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: black dude, but the point in the story is that
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: we have biases to behavior it wasn't because of the
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: person's skin color. And then what happens is if we
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: create a squad of police, this is just because you're black,
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: that means you're going to respond to black people. What
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: if that doesn't necessarily, what if you don't?
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think it'll work. I'm just trying to think,
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: how do you get the racial issues out of it?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Because yeah, at a certain point you do get to like,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't see as much racism. Like
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: I grew up in the South, you know, when you'd
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: hear some people's, Dad, they would just sit there and
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: just say the N-word and call people f * *
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: ks or whatever. They would say a lot of racist jokes.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: That was it. That was a lot of what you'd hear.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 1: But I don't even hear that shit anymore, dude. I'm
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: not saying it doesn't exist.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: It's because people are scared to say it. It's because
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: they're scared they're.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: Going to hear it. That could be true. But I
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: think more people now, I don't think that there's more
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: racism than there used to be. I think sometimes there
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: is a fear of some black cultures and areas because—
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: I think people probably want to be safe and they
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: fear that some of those areas don't have a lot
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: of safety. But I don't know that that's true. And
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: I also don't know. It kind of that that kind
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: of bums me out sometimes because it's like, well, I
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: would like to go support probably more like black owned
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: businesses and see them in certain areas, probably. But I
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: think there's sometimes where. I'm just probably afraid. It's like,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: I don't want to risk my safety today to do that.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: In a predominantly black neighborhood. Right. Yes.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: And that may sound racist saying that.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 2: That doesn't sound right. Well, I don't know. Why would
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: that sound racist?
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: Why would that sound racist? Okay. Name me three major
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: cities where you think there's a lot of crime. Three
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: major cities. Oh, yeah.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Memphis.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: New Orleans, probably.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: Los Angeles. Okay.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: Cities have more crime.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. They do have more crime. Okay. How about Chicago?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: Chicago.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: Chicago. Now, when you think about that crime, do you
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: think of it as black crime?
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: I think maybe in some areas. So you probably do,
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: because you hear a lot about Chicago black crime. You
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: hear that term a lot.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: I'll show you something. Can you pull up heyjackass.com? Have
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: you heard of this? Heyjackass.com. This is a guy who
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 2: tracks every single shooting that occurs in Chicago by the minute,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: where it occurs, by race, and time.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: How does he do it? He's like the Santa of
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: bullets or whatever. How does he get it all done?
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: She said Santa of both.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: Or like, how's he doing it all in one night?
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 2: Hold on, before you look, before you look, before you look.
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: How many people do you think have been shot? Just shot.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Shot in Chicago? I'm going to get this right, I bet.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: I would say 41 people.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: 41 people shot in Chicago until March, right?
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: Deceased or just shot?
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: Just shot.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, just shot? I would say 71.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: 71.
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: All right, take a look. This is cool. Oh, total shot, 87.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: So for year total, look at year total.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: Year to date, 80, 330 total shots.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: So that means 330 people have been shot and we're
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 2: not even, how does a mayor have a job if
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: that many people get shot? Now, look at it by race.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: 75% black, 18.8% Hispanic, 6.4% white or other. So there's
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: more shooting between with blacks and Hispanics. than whites, or
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: of the three, black leads, 75%. And this is only Chicago.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: But do you, so why do you think this is, right?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 1: Because you've seen, you've been on the streets. I mean,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: this was Las Vegas, which probably has more of a
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: Latino population as well, huh?
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: It does.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: Why do you think this is? Is it just a
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: financial thing? Is it a culture thing? Is it, because
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: you start to think that so, like, The weird thing
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: about crime is it starts to become part of a culture.
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: So you're saying a lot of very, very interesting things.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: And I'll speak to the first one first. Why do
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: I think it is? I think it's because, okay, let
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: me speak to the specific question. Why is it that
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: it happens in black culture?
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think about it. Is that the question? Well,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 1: it starts to seem like, well, that's become part of
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: the culture. And so it's just too risky. It's like,
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: I want to.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think it's part of the subculture.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's a better term.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: I think it's part of the subculture.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. That's a better term, yeah.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I don't know all the words.
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: It's part of the subculture.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: It's part of the subculture. And so I'll tell you
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: why it happens is because not enough people call it out.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: It's okay for rappers to come and be in places
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: and celebrate it when rap culture has become so openly
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 2: violent not only towards each other in gangs, for gang
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: versus gang, but towards women. And that is not called out.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 2: That's where people who have a voice need to stand
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: up and say, no, young man, that's not appropriate. That
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't work. When I spoke to you in the beginning,
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: I said I cannot overstate the importance of my father
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: being in my life. But for that fact, I was
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: able to reach the degree of just basic, you know,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: and I'm not going to say success. I'm content with
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: what I have. But for me, having both of my
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: parents in my life for such a significant amount of time,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of these kids don't. A lot of them
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: do not. And the fact that that's not called out
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: and that, you know, and I don't want to turn
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: this into a political conversation, but I have very strong
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: feelings about the fact that there's so many people in
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: one in a certain group that don't say that is
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: not acceptable behavior. We're not going to condone that. You
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: must act and behave differently, otherwise we can't hang here.
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: And until that happens, that's gonna just be a continuous cycle.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the media, I mean, you couldn't say that there's
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: a black crime problem. You know, it's like the media is.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: Very- There is a black crime problem. There is.
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: But you can't, yeah, the media seems like they never
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: would say that, you know? And the media is kind
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: of what people absorb, you know? But I think now
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: you're able to have people who have come out of
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: black culture and are, I think there's, I think there
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: are good leaders out there who are saying it, you know?
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: I think that hopefully it's going to change too, you know,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: because the shitty part is it's like, yeah, I had
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: a friend and she had the, she had like a
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: hat store and she wanted me to come by. And
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: I was like, I, it's just, that's too, I don't
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: want to be in that area. I don't want to
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: be in there.
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: Don't blame you.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: But to be like, I don't want to shot, you know,
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: it just kind of sucks, you know, like shit like
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: that kind of sucks.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: So preservation is a thing, right?
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: That's the first thing. And it's the best thing. It's like,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to fucking risk my life to get
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: a fucking fitted, you know?
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: At the same time, it would be nice to, you know,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: it's like, and that's not everywhere. And that's, but it's like, yeah,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: that kind of shit sucks, dude. You wish that shit
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: would go away because it fucking sucks. And it makes
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: cities bad, man. Like, um, New Orleans has a lot
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: of that murder over there, a lot of black on
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: black murder. And it makes you not want to be
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: around certain, like, it makes you just not be able
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: to relax and enjoy yourself.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 2: We're at 300 and some people have been shot and
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 2: there's a mayor who still has a job.
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: So being an officer and, um, Being a sergeant, what
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: effect can the mayor really have on the crime in
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: an area?
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: So we didn't have a unique situation in Las Vegas
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: where we didn't report to the mayor. Our sheriff was
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: an elected official. So the police in Las Vegas didn't
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 2: have to worry about politics with the mayor. The sheriff
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: was almost every single time a police officer before. And
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: in fact, the former sheriff who was the governor now
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: was one of my sergeants. He understood policing. So the
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 2: top ranking law enforcement person understood policing. And I think
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: that that became in a very effective model where you
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: don't have to report to a mayor. That mayor is
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: dealing with politics and the police chief has to report
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: to that mayor. So how do we affect this situation
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: to happen? It's not the police that are going to fix.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, in immediate, they can put a bandaid on
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 2: it and put cops on dots and corners and do
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 2: stuff like that. But we have to say. Fathers have
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: to be in households. They have to raise their kids.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 2: I can tell you in the beginning when we started speaking,
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: I said, if I was, one of the other things
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: I said that affected me is times that I didn't
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 2: spend with my children when I could have, where I
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: was either working or being selfish and doing something on
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: my own, whatever. Fathers have to be involved in those lives. Otherwise,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: those young men are gonna continue to do the same
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: exact thing in New Orleans, in Memphis, in Chicago, every
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: one of those cities, we should be screaming at the
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: top of our lungs when we see that 300-something people
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: were shot in one city. And that's okay. How is
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: that okay? It's not. But then you'll see people protesting
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: about this or protesting about that and claim to really
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: care about humanity. But before we're done with this podcast,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: there is going to be at least two or three
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: and maybe 10 people that are going to shot across
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: all these different cities. But you know what? We don't,
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a saying that says all men are hypocrites.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 2: Most deny it. I myself admit it. And I do.
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 2: I admit I'm a hypocrite. My life is good, Theo.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: If I really, really cared, if I really, really cared,
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 2: and this is an honest admission, then maybe I would,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: as a retiree with all the time I have, maybe
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: find one of these Chicago kids and spend time with
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: them and do something. And maybe at some point in
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: my life, I will. But I think that we have
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: to call out our own hypocrisy in life and say
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: that we as Americans love our lives the way they are.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: These people protesting all these places, they're getting a latte
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: at Starbucks right afterwards, getting on TikTok and sending out
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: videos and claiming that they're revolutionaries. They're not revolutionaries. There
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 2: are no real revolutionaries right now.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: And thanks for sharing, dude. I know that, you know,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing.
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: Forgive me for preaching, man.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: No, I don't know if we sound preachy, you know,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: I think it's okay. You know, like, like two of
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: my black friends got killed in drive-by shootings in New Orleans,
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: like in the past eight years. Um, And they didn't
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: catch the guys that did it. Um, actually one of
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: the guys that did, one of them, they did catch
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: the guy that did it. Um, but just like, it
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: was like, uh, just bullshit in the city, just fucking shooting,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: you know? And it starts to get sad. It starts
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: to get like, I don't know. Like people ask me now,
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: what should I do when I'm in new Orleans? And I,
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: you know, I say, you know, these are places to go,
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: but don't go in these areas. You know, it's kind
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: of fucking sucks. It's like, but what I was thinking was, um,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: We had a guy named Richard Reeves on, and he said, well,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: one of the problems these days is there's not a
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: lot of young male role models, right? There's not a
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: lot of young male role models. And he said a
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: lot of men used to be teachers. I don't have
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of male teachers anymore. He said a lot
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: of men were Boy Scout and Cub Scout leaders, troop leaders.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: There was more, I guess, more young men used to
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: be involved in the church, right? So you had, and
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: obviously some of this shit got haywire and some of
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: those people got molested or whatever. But outside of that,
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: there's just not a lot of male role models. And
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: so it's like, how do we start to become male
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: role models in our community, right?
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 2: Did you mean just male role models or did you
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: mean black male role models?
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: I just meant male, I think male role models. His
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: work is just looking at, it's the founding president of
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: the American Institute for Boys and Men. He's the author
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: of several books, including a boys and men, why the
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: modern male is struggling, why it matters and what to
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: do about it. His was just saying that, yeah, it
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: used to be like, so to become, if you have
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: spare time to become a baseball coach, to do the
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: big brother program, if you can commit the time to it, like,
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: cause it takes like a lot of real time to
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: do those things. Um, and it really kind of just
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: put me on notice. Like, yeah, how do I create
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: something that's, or just give back to like, you know,
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: since I don't have any children yet, how do you
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 1: be a part of that? You know? Cause I think
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: some of our men too, this is something that I
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: believe is happening is our men are still being really young. Mm-hmm.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: It's like we don't have to grow up.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: It's true. It's very true.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: And look, I'm still trying to not be grown up,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: but I got to fucking grow up, dude, because they're
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: coming after me or whatever. Who's coming after you? Nobody is,
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: but my mom's like, what are we doing? Are you
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: going to get a family or what's going to go on?
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: Do you want a family?
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: I think so, dude, because I think I would miss
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: out on it. I'd like to have a son, be
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: a good dad, make my wife happy or whatever until
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: she gets fucking all pissed off.
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: What's stopping you?
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: Huh?
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: What's stopping you?
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: Dude, I haven't even met my wife yet, first of all.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to be fucking, I got some shit
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: to tell her when I do meet her. I'll tell
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: you that.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 2: Do you pray for her?
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: Huh? Yeah, I do pray about it. Do you pray
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: for her specifically? No, I haven't prayed for her specifically,
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: but I do pray. It's a good point.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: She's alive. So if she's alive, maybe a good prayer
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: would be, you know what? Because just think she's doing
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 2: something right this second. Just think if you started to
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: fervently pray for that specific person, you'd be building her
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: before she even gets to you, bro.
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: Wow. Wow. Yeah, it's like creating when you get to
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: make your own person on NBA 2K or whatever. You
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about?
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: The spiritual side, though.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I got you. Yeah, I got you.
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I made a list of things I would like,
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: but then it's like, I don't want to get too
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: locked in, but that's a good call, man.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: And just pray that God, you know, I have been
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: praying that God gives me just the ability to lean
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: more into becoming who I need to be to be
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: in that situation, you know?
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: May I ask you a semi-personal question? Yeah. Is the
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 2: reason why... Maybe holding you back a little bit, the
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: fact that you still like dating multiple women or like being,
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: you don't want to be in lockdown. You kind of
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: really want to experience more.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, I've thought about that. I like,
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's been hard with work. It's like
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: work is my biggest relationship. I mean, when I have
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: a free moment, I'm working. I just, I like it.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: you know, where I'm planning or I'm thinking, what could
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: I do? And not even just work, but like, how
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: could I start to do like work that is more, um,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: giving back to the community? Like, you know, but you
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: start to think of like, okay, well, what, like, what
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: can I create now that could really be part of
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: something cool or help people? Um, and I think we
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: all think like that, but, but yeah, so just any
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: facet of like, what can I create while I'm still
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: have some creativity in me, you know? And then as
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: far as dating, like I try to put myself out there,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm not on the apps, but I'll meet girls,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: go on dates. You know, I'm pretty brave to be like, oh,
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: let's meet up for a coffee or let's grab a
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: dinner or something like that. I feel like I'm kind
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: of tired of running around, to be honest. I think
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: it kind of leaves out of your system a little bit.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: It does. Yeah.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of where I feel like I'm at.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: Cool.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: And then it's like you get into an age range
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: where you're like, okay, well, you know, it's kind of tough.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: Sometimes some people have children, but then you just, But
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: once you realize that, you're like, okay, well, I never
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: thought about it if I would date somebody with children,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: you know? So then you start to think about that
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: and learn different little things and stuff.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: With sleeping in the same bed with a person, does
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: that bother you?
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that bothers me. A lot of times I don't
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: like it that much, but.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: So maybe that's something that you could find in common
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: with a person and maybe your intimacy comes together at
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: a certain space and you still have enough space to
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: be apart from each other. And if they have, if
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: on the, at the jump, if they're cool with that,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: maybe that's something that you can start off from that point.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: Cause some people don't like to sleep together. You heard
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: of a sleep divorce? You never heard of sleep divorce?
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: No, but I would love if my wife had her
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: own room.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sleep divorce is where people, um, don't sleep in
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: the same bed, but they maintain an intimate relationship. And then, um,
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: their relationships actually flourish. And I don't like to call
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 2: it sleep divorce. I like to call it like solitary intimacy,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 2: like where you're cool being by yourself and you're cool
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: being by yourself when we come together, whenever. Just some
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: stuff to throw out there.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's neat. I think there's stuff like that.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: Relationships are kind of evolving and stuff too, I think.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: People are figuring out kind of what works for them.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes I've been afraid to maybe even say
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: what I feel like. Yeah, if I would be like, hey,
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: I'd love it if I could have a separate bedroom
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: than my wife, you know? And if we wanted, you know,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: like then we could have our own rooms.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: I think that that's the most awesome thing possible.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: And that would be fine.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: So, but I think for years you get caught in
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: this idea like, oh, that's going to be crazy to
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: say to somebody, you know? But then- I think as
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: time goes on, you're like, nothing's really that crazy. You
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: just have to say it and see if somebody else
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: is okay with it. You've talked a lot about policing
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: and how to police. That seems like to be something
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: that you care about. Has policing changed a lot over
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: the years, do you feel like?
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: Yes. Because of technology and the advent of cameras and everyone.
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: When I came on the police department, people defaulted to
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: the police being right. Now people default a lot of
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: times to the police being having questions about the police behavior.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: And it's, it's fair because a lot of things have
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: occurred that would make people question that. So it's changed
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 2: in the sense that people always have the cameras out.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: Obviously police now all have body cams. So things are
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: documented and memorialized in a digital format that we didn't
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: necessarily have before. And I think it's essential when a
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 2: person can take away a person's freedom or take away
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 2: a person's life that it's documented. I got a ticket
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: that I, you know, I got a ticket, first ticket
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: in my life. I got it in, um, in July. Oh, really?
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: It was the trippiest story and it made me realize
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 2: what people have to go through and so check this out.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 2: So in Florida, I have a house in Florida and
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: I was riding my e-bike on the beach just pedaling.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 2: There was a plastic cup. I pick up the plastic
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: cup and I ride my e-bike over to throw it
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 2: away and I turn around and I use my throttle
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 2: to go back. All of a sudden, this buggy with
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: lights and siren comes screeching up on me on the
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 2: beach and this cop jumps out First thing he says
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: to me is, I need you to get off the
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: bike and I need to see your license. Those are
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: his words as soon as he stops me. And I
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: don't know if he was intimidated by me or what.
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, you're not going to get
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 2: any problems out of me? I said, listen, I said,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: I'm a retired cop. I'm cool. I'm not going to
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 2: do anything to you.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, there you guys are right there. That's... That's the cop.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: Is that Sean Kingston?
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: He does look like Sean. An older version of Sean Kingston. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: He was sweating. I mean, he was, looked like, I
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: just can't even explain how stressed out he was over
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: me riding my electric bike on the beach. And he
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 2: wrote me a ticket. And so I was like, you
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: know what? I'm going to ride this whole thing out
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 2: because I want to see what it feels like from
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: the side of, because I gave out a lot of tickets.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: I want to see what it, I went to court
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 2: and everything. I had to go before a judge. There
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: were people in there for like felonies and everything else.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: And I went through the whole process and paid my ticket.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: And it was disappointing to me that at this day
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: and age that there are still police that don't, that
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: the first thing they say to you out of their
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 2: mouth is, get off the bike. I need to see
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: your license. It goes back to what I was saying
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: to you before about when I just, you know, told
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 2: you how I interact, I prefer a person to interact.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 2: Why not do that?
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: Well, I think, but now in some instances, things are
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: manic and the situation has escalated already, right? Like sometimes
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: it's already, things are insane. Like if a guy's shooting
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: Sure. I mean, you're going to be, yeah.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: But you're saying just walking up person to person. What
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: is the daily interaction like?
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: Every single interaction from the police should be something that
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 2: should be. friendly and almost as I'm the servant of,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 2: cause we are, we're supposed to be serving. Even if
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: a person makes a mistake, come on, bro.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, I look, I, I love that idea. I love
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: the idea that that's what keeps it, what keeps that
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: from happening then? Because then you would almost want to
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: be able to check each day. Okay. How is this
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: officer doing today? are they going to be able to
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: manage to be out there in this field or do,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: are they getting paid enough to be able to take
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: care of themselves to get, um, massages or ice packs,
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: things that people need though, that to de-stress them, dude,
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: I go get a massage. I'll, it'll change the way
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: I talk to my mother on the phone. It's like,
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: I love that concept, you know, but it's like, well, yeah,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: it seems like we would be able to take care
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: of these people more who are the, really the sieves
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: of our society that are like drain, you know, they're
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: the capture. They're the catch at the drain, you know,
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: I like that analogy.
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 2: You know, to me, I think it would actually make
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 2: policing less stressful if, the police interaction from the police
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 2: side is that entree into being so kind and polite
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 2: from the very beginning of the stop. Because you're not
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: going to get into that many arguments with people, because
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 2: most people are like, dang on it. I've written tickets
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: to people that are like, thank you. And I'm not
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 2: saying that I was great at doing it. There were
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of cops who know how to talk and
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 2: act that way. And it's usually when you get older.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 2: It's just that if everything looks like a nail, if
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 2: you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail or whatever,
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: if the hammer's your only tool, then everything looks like
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: a nail. And that's the only way that you deal
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 2: with things, is hammering it in. As opposed to trying
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 2: other methods. Make that tool belt bigger.
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I've learned that in my own life, man.
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: I've really showed up with a hammer a lot of times.
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to have less of it. And it's been
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: getting better, oddly. I just find little moments where I'm like,
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: I've tried that so many times, waiting for somebody to
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: act a certain way towards me instead of just acting
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: that way.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: That's a fucking... I've spent a lot of my life waiting. Oh,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to wait for you to act this
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: way towards me because I deserve that. That's the way
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be or something. And not in like
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: a way of like praise or anything like that, but
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: just even something simple like a relationship. work relationship, or
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: even with family, I'm going to wait. You know, instead
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: of like, I'm going to wait for you to hold
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: my hand instead of me just holding your hand type shit,
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 2: And that's deep, man. You know, the way that you adjust, evolve,
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: and treat people, and I learned this very interesting story
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 2: when I first hired on the police tour, and it's race.
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 2: Incident here. I was coming on graveyard. This is downtown.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: There's a foot pursuit, swing shift, gets the guy in custody.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: The sergeant, I was an officer at the time, the
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: sergeant calls me over and asks me to transport the guy.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 2: I get there and the guy's leaking. And a black dude,
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: he's pissed. And two officers that took him into custody, white.
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 2: One of the officers was a guy who was a
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: senior field training officer and he was about to go
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: to SWAT. And I'm this rookie, rookie. I come over
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: and the black dude, his eye is leaking. And they
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: call medical. And medical comes while I'm sitting there and
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: the sergeant says, hey, you take him because he figured
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 2: the guy would feel more comfortable with me. Because the
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 2: guy was saying, oh, they just roughed me up. So
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 2: I get the guy. So this is the important part.
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 2: The FTO has his handcuffs on the suspect. What you're
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: supposed to do is conduct a pat-down, go through the
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: whole process, put your handcuffs on the person, and then
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: transfer him to the car. I didn't want to offend
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 2: the FTO by making it seem like I didn't trust
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: his pat-down. So I put my cuffs on the guy.
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 2: I take the guy, and I'm getting ready to put
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: him in my car, and the ambulance lady says, he
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: can't go straight to jail. You got to take him
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: over to UMC, which is the hospital, because they got
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 2: to sew that up. Take him over to UMC. We
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: go there. The doctor says, I got to uncuff his hand,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: cuff him to the gurney. And I'm talking to this
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: dude and I'm just like vibing with him. And like,
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 2: I just, I felt kind of bad for him. I like,
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: he just was like, you know, you look at a
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: person that just dejected, like their life sucked and he
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: was being booked for running. You know, they were trying
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 2: to stop him. He was running. Right.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: And he's, he's leaking. He's like, just do just like
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 2: his life was sucked. So we get down to the hospital.
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: They sew him up. I recuff him, bring him to the,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: to the jail, CCDC, the detention center, county detention center.
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 2: I get him inside before we, before we get there,
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: the guy said he was John Doe at that point.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: So if the person doesn't tell us their name, we
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: book them as John Doe. The dude says to me,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 2: he goes, you know what, man, you've been cool to me.
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you my name. He tells me
• 1:50:40
  Speaker 2: his name. I put it into the computer. My computer
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 2: starts going crazy. All this information pops up in his warrant,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: pops up. The dispatcher says, ask me if I'm clear
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: for the information. And he says, He's wanted by the
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: FBI murder by burning. I get him down to the jail.
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, chef. That's crazy.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 2: The CO is one of my boys, and he goes screaming.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: He's like, Chris, what the F? He's yelling. He comes back,
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: this big, huge knife the guy had on him the
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: whole time. Big, big knife.
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: You didn't check him?
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: I didn't check him because I didn't want to offend
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 2: the FTO. And the dude says to me, as he
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: walks by when they brought him out, because he got
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: booked on additional charge, he says- He said, you know,
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 2: if you weren't kind to me the way that you were,
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 2: I could have done you in the hospital and I
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 2: would have done you. Me being kind and polite to
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 2: that guy saved my life from that stupid rookie mistake
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: that I made.
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, yeah. I mean, I I don't know
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: what it's like. I don't know what it's like. How
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: do you make sure that an officer when they leave
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: out for the day each day is in the best
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: state that they can be in? to be these liaisons
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: between right and wrong in the world, you know? And
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: that's what, it's like, how best can we take care
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: of these people? These, you know, I feel like if
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: we can afford to give money to other places, we
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: should give it, pour it into these people. It should
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: be expensive. It should be a well-paid job. And I'm
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: not saying that it isn't, but it should be, you know,
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like these are the fucking, a lot of
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: other shit's easy, dude.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: You should also incentivize officers with more than 10 years
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: to go back to patrol. One of the challenges that
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: happens is you get cops, they want to go through
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: the ranks, they get work, go work in specialized units
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: and then never go back to patrol and then patrol.
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, so they get disconnected.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: They get disconnected from patrol. And then you have young
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: guys teaching young guys. And it's usually the older wisdom
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 2: that is what helps policing. Cause I remember I was
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: in the knucklehead when I was young. I know I
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 2: made a lot of mistakes.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. Oh God.
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, dude.
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 1: So how do you get it to become a hostage negotiator?
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: Cause that's what you're, You became. Right.
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: So that's a specialized unit, specialized training. You can keep
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: your primary responsibility because what happens is you end up
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: being on call. And that sucked because you would be
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: in the middle of something and you'd get a call out.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: And you have to go.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: And you have to go.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: Because there's not many of you.
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: No. And you need a team to assemble. On rare occasions,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: you can call out. So they'll put out an opening.
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 2: And every department is different, but they'll put out an
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: opening and then you interview for it. And then, uh, you,
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: how well you're doing the interview, you get selected. And
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: I was the young, at the time I was the
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: youngest ever to be selected on the team. And, um,
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: that was a phenomenal experience. And so once you're on
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 2: the team, you know, you get your, you know, your phones,
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: but then you had pagers too, and, uh, you get
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: your gear, your jacket and everything. And you just start
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: responding to calls, you know, obviously, obviously after training, you
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: start responding to call outs. And, um, it's if anything
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: on the department weighs on you, it's talking to a
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: person for a significant amount of time or listening to
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 2: a person talk to for a significant amount of time,
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: being part of the team. And then the person does
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: themselves because hostage negotiation isn't really a good term for it.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: It's more of a crisis negotiator because most of the
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: time that we do it, it would be from a
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: person in crisis, a person at once to four or five, as.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: We said earlier, that was considered an unaligned themselves.
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: Take me through a scenario like that.
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: Okay. So an actual situation or, okay. So, Um, this is, uh,
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: this one is w was deep and I wasn't the
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: primary on this one. And this is a story that
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 2: resonates and they even tell us in the class. Now, uh,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 2: a guy who just life was horrific. He had a
• 1:54:26
  Speaker 2: terminal illness. He had a, and I wasn't re when
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 2: I was younger, I didn't realize how many people have
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 2: back issues and their back pain is just suffering and
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: they don't want to live anymore. And so I think
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: what he had was cancer. He had a back issue
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 2: that was just causing them severe, severe pain. And his
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: wife left him because it was a whole bunch of issues.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: And he had financial issues for all these things that
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 2: he was going through. So what happens is you assemble
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: a team. There's a primary. There's a secondary. The primary
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: is a person that talks to the person. And they're
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: on the phone. Their sole focus is to talk to
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 2: the person.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: Talk to the person that's in crisis.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: That's in crisis. The secondary is the person that is
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: monitoring the primary and getting information from the rest of
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: the team. And the team can vary. But two positions
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: that are really important is the Intel liaison, which is
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: the person that tells the background of the person. The
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: person's this age. They were married this amount of time.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 2: All the intel that you can possibly get on the person, right?
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 2: Then you have the tactical liaison person because you have
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: a SWAT team that's assembled as well because you may
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: have to potentially breach or go inside of the residence.
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: So tactically, you have to know, has this place been evacuated?
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: Are there weapons inside? Has this person done this before?
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: So the TAC and the intel person feed this information
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 2: to the secondary. The secondary can write notes and feed it.
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: Then you have a scribe who scribes all this information.
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 2: So the case that I was talking to you about
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 2: was this person who had gone through this thing. He
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: was going through this thing. And it was a newer
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 2: negotiator that was on as the primary. And after all
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 2: this time of talking this guy and getting to know him,
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: the guy says, I know exactly what you're doing. And
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: you really suck at it. And then shot himself in
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: the head. He said, you really suck at it. That
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: was the last thing that he said.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: It would kind of suck though. If that you're considering
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: unaliving yourself, you get on with the negotiator and he's
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: just horrible at it. You're like, Oh God. Like, yeah, dude,
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: that's crazy. That's a mic drop, bro.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: It is. And that's, that person had to live with that.
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: You know, that they're, that's their, their record on the
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: department is that they.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: Were they really good at it though? And the person
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: just didn't know. And that, because anybody could say that,
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: that could be an asshole move.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: It can be. And part of it was that, because
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, how is it and what is good, right?
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: How is it and what is good? Because I mean,
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: I actually brought a scenario that I was going to
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 2: work through with you if you wanted to try to
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: be a negotiating. And so, so basically this is pretty cool, man.
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 2: Cause this is, this is a, this is a, I
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 2: put this together, which is a composite of a few different,
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: negotiated things, and I'm gonna be, I'm gonna tell you,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: you're gonna be the primary. And so here's the situation.
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: I can read it or you can read it on
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 2: what the situation is. Actually, I'll read it to you
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: as if you just showed up at the scene that
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 2: you just rolled up, all right?
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, great.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 2: All right. Theo, you're gonna be the primary on this one, okay?
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: You got it.
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 2: The subject's name is Michael Brady. He goes by Mike.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 2: The background intel we have is he's a middle school
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 2: biology teacher for the last 14 years.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: Hmm.
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: He's a youth pastor at a local Christian church for
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: the last seven years. He's 47 years old and he's
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: a white male. He's been married for 18 years. His
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 2: wife's name is Carol Brady. She's 46 years old. They
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: have one son. His name is Bobby Brady. He's nine
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 2: years old. Today, Michael was put on administrative leave for
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: school when sexual assault detectives came to the school on
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: an anonymous tip. He allegedly impregnated a 14 year old student.
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 2: Her name is Pamela Phillips. Mike Brady is currently barricaded
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: inside the residence. We got the call because Mike came home,
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: told his wife to get out of the house as
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: he entered an upstairs bedroom and shut the door. He
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 2: appeared to be holding a firearm. He is currently barricaded
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: inside the residence. Your personal observation, Theo, is that as
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: you pulled up to the scene, you see a young
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: boy in a baseball uniform talking to detectives, and he's
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: crying hysterically. Presumably, this is the son, Bobby. Okay? Tactical intel.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: There are two known firearms. There's a shotgun inside,. 45
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 2: caliber automatic pistol. SWAT has arrived, and they set up
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 2: the inner perimeter. Neighboring houses have been evacuated. You can
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: ask me three questions, and then I'm going to begin
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: as though I'm Mike, and you're going to talk to me.
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, I asked you three questions.
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 2: You can ask me three questions to get some information
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: to get started.
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: About the case.
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 2: Yep. Okay.
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: Is it based on the Brady Bunch at all.
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: A little bit? I used that because I knew I'd
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: remember those names. Oh, fair, fair.
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: Okay. Damn, that's one of my questions. Let me think.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: That one you can throw us out. You can ask
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 2: me three questions that pertain to it because you're going
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: to go online, and when you go online, it's going
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 2: to be pretty intense. Okay, so I'm going to go online.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 2: You're going to be talking to me, and I'm Mike Brady.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 2: You're the primary.
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: Has Mike ever committed any priors?
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: Prior crimes with young women?
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: Prior, like, assault charges?
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: Nope. His record is completely clean. Okay.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: How tall is he?
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: Interesting question. He's six foot even. Okay.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: And is he on any medication?
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 2: Very good question. He takes a sleeping pill to sleep.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: He has a sleeping issue.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, sir.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 2: Hello?
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: Hey, Mike. Yeah.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 2: Who's this?
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, this is Theo.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 2: Actually.
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: I'm the, I'm working. I'm here today, man. Just, um,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: I really screwed up.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: Didn't I, man?
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: I think it seems like you've had a tough day.
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: I have had a tough day, but I mean, I
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 2: screwed up this time. Didn't I?
• 2:00:16
  Speaker 1: I think you're probably gonna have to answer some questions,
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: you know, but I think everything's gonna be okay, man.
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 2: How's it gonna be okay? This girl's pregnant, man. I mean,
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: how am I gonna face anyone after this?
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you're gonna have to... Her dad's gonna
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: be pissed, yeah. I mean, yeah, people are gonna be upset.
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not thinking about her dad. I'm thinking about my family.
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, people are gonna... Yeah, it's gonna be... Yeah, man,
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: it sucks.
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: It does suck.
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: It sucks. But here we are.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, how am I gonna face my son?
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: Your son's pretty upset right now.
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he is. Of course he is. I knocked up
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: a 14-year-old girl. I'm a youth pastor in a church.
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 2: I teach at a school. My life is over. Give
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: me a good reason why I shouldn't just put this
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 2: thing to my head and blow my brains out.
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: Because your son's life is still around, and that's not
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: what he needs right now. You're probably right about that.
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: But, you know, how can I face him, man?
• 2:01:20
  Speaker 1: I think you call him first.
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: Call him and say what? What would you say in
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 2: that situation?
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. I would say, I
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: would tell him the truth. I would say I messed up.
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 2: And you think that's the answer? To tell him I
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: messed up? I know I messed up.
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's part of it. I know you know
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: you did, but he probably doesn't know what's going on.
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: He doesn't. Is he out there right now?
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You want me to put him on?
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: Would you? Yeah. Okay. How do you feel? How do
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: you think you did? Was that intense?
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: It is intense.
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 2: It is intense.
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: Fuck, it's intense. Because you're like, even if you get
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: to that part, is he just going to tell the
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: son goodbye?
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: Exactly. See, Theo, you are super wise, brother. That's exactly
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 2: why we wouldn't put the son on the phone. Because
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what he would likely do. He would likely.
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: And so this is why we train. This is why
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: we train. So a couple of other things, right? When
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: we said son, that was a good opportunity for you
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 2: to do what? Identify his son by name. Because isn't
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 2: Bobby different than saying son? It's different, right? My wife,
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 2: that was opportunity. And I knew that. No, no, no.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: Look, use it as instructional. Use it as instructional. It's
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: very interesting.
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 2: But that's when you say Carol, right? Yeah, Carol, yeah.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: But what I like is that you humanize the situation, right?
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: Like you... That's the thing, again, it's where you get
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: the feel, where he's talking to a person that he
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: could potentially relate to, and you create that air about
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 2: the situation where you would get out of the costume
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 2: and be just completely freaked out or completely militaristic, you know?
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: And I like that you kind of humanize the whole situation,
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: and this is obviously super condensed.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: No, well, the fascinating thing to me is, yeah, when
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: you realize the gravitas of this, like you think it's easy.
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: And then even this, this is a placebo, even in
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: that you're like, I don't have the answer right now.
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: And if I don't get this right, what happens? And
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: then I'm starting to learn as I think about it too.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, it's not about you anymore. It's about
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: your son. And then that kind of makes me sad.
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: Then it's like, now suddenly I feel more feelings. So
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, well, shit, now I'm doing this really for
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: the son. And I didn't even realize that until that moment,
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: you know, even though like You could be trained for that.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: It's like until that's said and it's a real moment
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: and you can picture the sun and you, God, dude,
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: it's like, it's just scary. And then at some point,
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: you might agree that the guy, it might be best
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: if he lets God just, I don't know. Is that
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: crazy to say that? I don't know. I don't think
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: it is crazy. I think it's normal.
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: So there are a lot of people who, And obviously
• 2:04:04
  Speaker 2: not from official police, but there were people, even in
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: their own mind, would say, I wouldn't want to live
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: if that was the case. So I'll tell you a
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 2: situation that I dealt with. I sent some audio for it.
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: It was a guy named Michael Chevalier. This was a
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: big case in Vegas. So here's what happened. So the
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 2: call comes out. I'm a sergeant at the time, right?
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: Swing shift. So it's still light outside. The call comes
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: out that a lady is talking on the phone to
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 2: her friend, and The friend hears the struggle and then
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden the blind goes dead. She calls
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 2: 911 and Obviously, we get dispatch. And sergeants, when we
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: hear certain calls, we're like, that's something I should roll to.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 2: We don't have to, but that's a call I should
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: roll to. I happen to be close enough to where
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 2: the two officers, so it's one of those apartment communities
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: where it's one floor, two floors, and then there's a
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 2: top floor, and then there's an apartment all the way
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: down here. So the officers, I pull in the parking
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 2: lot and I see my officers walking to the door.
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, I see the door open
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 2: and the officers pull out their gun and fall back.
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 2: like to try to get away from whatever was going
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: on at the door, and I hear them on the radio, 413,
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: subject has a 413. So the subject came to the
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: door with his arm around the female and the firearm
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 2: to the female. I have my car in the parking lot,
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 2: and then obviously code red, that means only emergency traffic,
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: all the officers come. We get into the front of
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 2: my car, and I have a dry erase, and I'm
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 2: on the hood of my car pointing out where I
• 2:05:31
  Speaker 2: want my officers to go and how we're going to
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: deal with the situation. One of my officers at the time,
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 2: really sharp guy, he says, hey, Sarge, I got my rifle.
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 2: In case he comes out, let me go over to
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: this pizzeria right here and I can engage him if
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: he comes out with the gun. Great lesson. If one
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 2: of your subordinates has a great idea, be very quick
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 2: to listen and learn from them because it was a
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 2: great idea because the second that he gets over there,
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: Chevalier comes out and starts shooting at us. We all
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 2: go down. My guy engages Chevalier at the door and
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 2: he hits the doorframe and all this wood and everything
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 2: hits Chevalier. And Chevalier goes back inside the house. I'm like,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 2: I got to call in. There was no time. No
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 2: negotiators had not been around, nothing. So I said, if
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 2: I call him, he's not going to be shooting. He's
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 2: not going to be hurting anyone. So I get in
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 2: and I start having a conversation with Chevalier and we
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 2: develop a rapport. Interestingly, I was able to record a
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 2: segment of this conversation. We'll play the conversation and then
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: I will tell you the nuances of the conversation that occurred.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 2: the aftermath of it, and how deep negotiations can be. Okay, cool.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, tee that up there, Trev.
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 2: I like to keep my word. And I know you do,
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 2: and I remember that you said that once you get
• 2:06:40
  Speaker 2: back on the phone with me that you and I
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 2: can work this out. Can we, if we can work.
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: This out, we can come to some type of agreement. Oh,
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: and I'm a man of my word.
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: I think the agreement.
• 2:06:52
  Speaker 2: They will come to will be released of us imperfectly.
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 2: She will be unharmed. I like what you're talking about.
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: And that peaceful agreement is the route that we got
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 2: to go, man. Oh, SWAT team is here.
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: Christopher, I want you to tell the SWAT team to
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: move away.
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: From the front of the door. What did you tell them?
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: Move them now.
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: What did you tell them to move them now? Michael,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 2: can I tell you what's happening? What did you tell
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: them to move away from the door?
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, Michael, can I tell you something?
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 3: What did you tell them that?
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: All right, listen.
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 2: I've seen them. Give me a second. I've seen the letters.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 3: I've seen them.
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, Michael. That's absolutely fine. Listen to me. Let me
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: just tell you what's going on.
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: Remember before I.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 3: Remember what?
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 2: Remember before I explained to you what was going on? Michael, Michael,
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: remember before I explained.
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 1: To you what was going on? Okay. So let me,
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: let me.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: Give you some background on this. Okay. I still get
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 2: like really amped when you're just listening to that again,
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 2: cause it takes me right back there. So Michael and
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 2: I had been speaking for a while and situation seemed
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: like it was pretty much calm. Negotiators were arriving, SWAT
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: team had arrived and they were setting up in their position.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: At that point, Michael freaked out when he saw the
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: SWAT team because they you see the SWAT team and
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 2: their greens and their rifles and you know that at
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: some point if you have a hostage that something's likely
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 2: gonna happen and it's not gonna be good for you.
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 2: Ultimately the decision was made to go to condition two.
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: Condition two is when my job is to talk Michael
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 2: in front of a window so they can shoot and
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: kill him. So there is this interesting element to talking
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 2: to a person that you are talking into their own demise.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 2: talking to a dead person, essentially. That ended up not happening.
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 2: What happened was, through electronic means, we were able to
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: find out that Michael was doing things to the female.
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 2: The decision was made to do an explosive breach into
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 2: the apartment and then take Michael out because Michael had
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 2: been raping her. Now, I'm condensing this because this is
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 2: a very long, drawn-out process.
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: Got it. And he kidnapped the woman?
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. She had her door open. She was
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 2: out talking to her friend and he grabbed her and
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: pulled her inside.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 3: Got it.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: Pulled her inside.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: Lady's just out there talking. Unreal. So ultimately after Swat
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 2: goes in and kills him, she's laying right there. Talk
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: about PTSD or what a person has to go through.
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: It's absolutely horrific. But let me talk about the nuance
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 2: of language. If you watched what Michael was saying, mind you,
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: The team is listening and watching every single word that
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 2: a person says. There's one very, very interesting part of
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 2: his conversation where he says, the hostage. Now, again, we
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 2: would always want to change that to back to saying
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 2: the person's name, but I didn't get a chance to
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: do that. And I did it, other points in it.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 2: But what he says is, she will be relieved and perfectly,
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 2: and he stops at perfectly, and she will be released unharmed.
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 2: So why did he stop at perfectly? He stopped that
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: perfectly because he knew that he was doing things that
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 2: she was not perfect. Our minds and our language are
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: so intimately connected. And when you get to understand, see
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: where he says, release of the hostage, he says, play
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: that again. That part is back it up a second
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 2: or two. You see, he stopped and he flipped it
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 2: because he, He knew that she wasn't perfect. He knew
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: he was doing horrific things to her. And we listen
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 2: to these types of things because we have to make
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: a decision. How long do we wait before we go inside? Like,
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: is he just sitting there or is he actually doing
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: that horrific thing?
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, could she lose her life? Yeah, you have to
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: make choices.
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: And in becoming a negotiator, even in your own life,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 2: you're very, very careful with your own word choice. And
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: often I'll find myself when I speak to people, there
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: are certain words that I don't use. I just have
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 2: excised them from my vocabulary. And it's about, and positivity
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: is also, like when I said sleep divorce, like I've
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 2: caught myself because I don't like to attribute divorce to
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 2: something that could potentially be positive. I almost, I don't almost,
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: I commit myself to utilizing the positive form of speech
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 2: whenever I possibly can. And it's incredibly important. It changes
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: a lot of things. Really?
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: Give me an example of that.
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 2: So I don't use the word problem. Like I say challenge.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: Because then you look at things as a problem. Like
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: who wants to see a problem? I'd like to see
• 2:11:46
  Speaker 2: a challenge because if you overcome it, then it's just
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 2: a challenge. You can almost always, if there's a negative
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 2: connotation to something, even when you go out with your
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: mom to dinner, if you think about it and listen
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: to the words that you speak, there's almost always a
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 2: positive way that you could flip it. Back in the day,
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 2: it really is. It's fun, too, when you think about
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: taking that much.
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does seem fun because then it kind of
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: adds a little bit of a challenge to your own,
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: how you're communicating. And the crazy thing is, you know
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: who hears us the most? Us.
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. And it means you care about what comes
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 2: out of your mouth. You know, back in the day,
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: I wrote a dating book called Mac Tactics.
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 2: I did. It was called Mac Tactics. The science of
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 2: seduction meets the art of hostage negotiation. In 2005, I
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 2: wrote this book, and it was about utilizing the language. Yeah,
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 2: there it is. It's about utilizing language in the dating. Yeah.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: Is it helpful?
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: How would a, how's a negotiator? What do you tell
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: me if I'm talking to a lady?
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: So it's interesting because it was more about, so Mac,
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 2: I changed Mac from, from what most people think Mac is.
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: And I changed it to method, action, confidence, and knowledge.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 2: I co-wrote it with my boy, Rob Weiser. Rob is
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: like really the, I mean, Rob is the NYU dude,
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 2: super smart. He's my boy. Like I was the, the
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 2: content guy.
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: And so method, action, confidence, knowledge, and all of those
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 2: were what we call the pillars of power. And conversation
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: was incredibly important as far as method was concerned. And
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 2: minimal encouragers, like, so you know what a minimal encourager is?
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 2: So minimal encourager and paraphrasing are two things that negotiators
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: learn to master. So a minimal encourager, like when I'm
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: looking at you, like how you're like minimally, like shaking
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: your head like that, you're naturally encouraging me to continue
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 2: on with my speech. We have verbal minimal encouragers as well.
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 2: Like when a person's speaking, you're like, okay, yeah. So
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 2: when you learn to, naturally incorporate those things into your speech,
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 2: it really encourages a person to open up. And if
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 2: you're a good listener, you can hear everything that a
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 2: person wants to say to you. And paraphrasing is when
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: you listen to what a person says and then you
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 2: say it back to them in a slightly different format,
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: adding positives if necessary, which really shows them that you're listening.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: And in dating, that's an incredibly effective method of building
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 2: a bond between two people. 100%. Let's try it. Okay.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 1: So if you, so.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: How do we do it? So here's how we do it. Like, uh,
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: tell me about your, what your day was like yesterday,
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 2: a small segment of your day.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yesterday I went to, um, yeah, I went to
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 1: watch some music and, uh, I was pretty tired, probably
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: stayed up a little later than I should have, but
• 2:14:20
  Speaker 1: I had a pretty good time, you know?
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: So, so when you were on out yesterday, did, um,
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: is it retired because you were having fun or was
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 2: it because you, um, just didn't have enough rest?
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I see what you're doing. So you're saying the
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: same thing?
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: I'm saying back to you, it shows that I'm listening
• 2:14:35
  Speaker 2: and that I care about what the outcome was. Usually
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: men will encourage it.
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: Right, because then I feel a little bit more, okay,
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: this is nice, this is fun, this is worth our time.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it gives you time to just kind of
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: build a person's trust in sharing with you. Conversation and
• 2:14:52
  Speaker 2: listening are two very, very important things, not to be
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: overbearing in your conversation and listening to the other person
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: and showing that you're listening. Negotiators are very good listeners.
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 2: So me and me doing that exercise with you, I
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: had an idea that you were going to be kind
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 2: of good at it. Most people don't even get, first
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: of all, they don't have the confidence to even try it.
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: I was very pleased that you were willing to try it.
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: But I had this thing about it because you're like very,
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: very relatable. I have a thing that I think that
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: you would be a good negotiator. I think that you
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: have at your core the ability to be a really
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 2: good negotiator. I thought about this movie where they call
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: you Mr. Relatable, the primary. Where like, it was not
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: even really you. It's like a person who was like
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: a younger you that was like a person who was
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 2: a stand-up comic. And the guy goes to the show
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 2: and decides he wants the 405 because he's just done
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 2: with life. But you, he just related with you and
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 2: that you negotiate him out of doing it. And the
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 2: police see you doing it. And then your arc is
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: that you realize that in negotiating with people that how
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 2: much it relates to things that you've been through in
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: your own life.
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: Do they have That almost sounds like a movie that
• 2:15:58
  Speaker 1: I bet somebody would, not exactly, but I bet, yeah,
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 1: a negotiator and they're really channeling things that are going
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: on in their own lives.
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: It happens to us. It does? It 100% happens to us.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: But most of us don't have the natural relatability that
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: you have. Like, I mean, no, I don't have any
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: need to blow smoke, right? Like, I really like you.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 2: I think you're dope.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, thanks, man. Yeah, look, I appreciate it.
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: But your relatability level is off the meter, right? With
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: all races of people, with all genders of people, I
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 2: don't know if you relate it to yourself as well
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 2: as you relate to other people, which might be an
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: interesting element.
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting.
• 2:16:35
  Speaker 2: That might be even part of the element of Mr. Relatable,
• 2:16:37
  Speaker 2: the primary. But there's something there, and I think that
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 2: you could definitely be a negotiator.
• 2:16:41
  Speaker 1: The primary.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: The primary.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: That's a cool name for something.
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 2: The primary. There you go, man. Imagine that. You talk
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: the guy out. Someone gets it on video that you
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 2: did it, and the police are reaching out to you
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: to handle these high-level negotiations, and he's trying to make
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: your career work.
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: Could do it man thanks man that's some nice thoughts
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: and just so so so that's a nice thing you
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: can do if you're talking with a woman pay attention
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 1: and share stuff that they said back to them to
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: create comfortability.
• 2:17:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah because a lot of times these guys we don't
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 2: necessarily list like sometimes them no in the.
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: Beginning especially you're just doing your best it's like you're
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: trying to survive it's almost like you're treading water it's
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: like i know i'm swimming but i'm really just you
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 1: know trying to stay alive at this moment.
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: And open-ended questions you know this is an excellent open-ended
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: question And how did that make you feel? That's an
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: excellent question. And be sincere about it. Like this, the
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 2: stuff that I'm selling is not, I'm not trying to
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: sell it. This is the stuff that I'm sharing that
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: really matters. Asking a person like, how did that make
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 2: you feel? Like if the girl that you go on
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: a date with, she's like, oh my goodness, it took
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 2: me forever to get here. The Uber driver kept looking
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: at me. It looked like my boob was popping up.
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 2: I get it. But how did that make you feel? Yeah.
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about it? Yeah. You feel like,
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: I'm okay with it actually. Just kind of a tactic.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 1: Because sometimes need somebody to put you, you get all soiled.
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: You need somebody to put you back in the pot,
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 1: you know? Yeah. Like sometimes I'll be frantic, but everything's fine.
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, everything's fine. It's like fucking, you know,
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 1: I'll get caught down to, you know, I'll get caught
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: going upstream when I don't really don't need to, you know? Um,
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: what else was I thinking about? Oh, There's that famous
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: case in Las Vegas of the shooter, right?
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of conspiracy theories about that. Was that
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: a real thing?
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it was real. I know some of the
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 2: cops that entered. One of my cop buddies pulled a
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 2: guy off the street and drove him to the hospital
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 2: and dropped him off. I mean, one of my closest
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: cop buddies did that. And I actually even got a
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 2: recording of him telling me about that because I used
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 2: it in a training class that I had. But that situation,
• 2:18:31
  Speaker 2: that 100% happened.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was real. Yeah.
• 2:18:36
  Speaker 1: That's unbelievable, huh?
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was, that was wild, man. And just to
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: show you, you know, I wear this thing, it says
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 2: momento mori, which means you remember you will die because
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 2: you don't know when you're going to die. Can happen
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: at any time, man. And that's the messed up thing
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 2: about cop work is that it's always at either the
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 2: forefront or the back of your mind that, you know,
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 2: you think about it. Like when I, you know what's crazy?
• 2:18:55
  Speaker 2: When the driver picked me up today in the black
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 2: vehicle and it's just, cops think like this. I was like,
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: is this really, this guy not setting me up, right?
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 2: This is legit. Like, you know, you have this like
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: a paranoia thing that goes on. in your mind about like,
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: if a person walks into a restaurant, we always sit
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 2: with our back to the door. It becomes uncomfortable sometimes.
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: We're not with our back to the door, facing the door.
• 2:19:15
  Speaker 1: So, but yeah, because I guess you develop, it's not
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 1: really a paranoia as much as it is a preservation, really.
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 2: It is, self-preservation, because seeing death on those levels, it's
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 2: a trip.
• 2:19:28
  Speaker 1: Does doing police work, sergeant work, negotiation work, Does it
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: wear down your compassion or does it build it over time,
• 2:19:39
  Speaker 1: do you think?
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's such a good question. For me, in the immediate,
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 2: you kind of build up this thick skin where you don't.
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 2: Like for me, showing emotion is still a challenge for
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 2: me in life. I get emotional and you sometimes will
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 2: see that there'll be tears that come well up in
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 2: my eye, but I don't want to let them fall down. Oh, yeah.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 2: So it's tough. But to answer your question, I think
• 2:20:07
  Speaker 2: that in the, while you're doing it, thick skin, as
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 2: you get older, you become more like that, you know,
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 2: I really feel what you're going through. You know, I
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 2: wish that I could, and I don't like to say
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 2: I wish, there's a way that I could help you.
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 2: My goal is to figure out how I can do that.
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 2: One of my lieutenants, I think you guys have the
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 2: audio on this. One of my lieutenants, 405, and there's
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 2: audio of it Um, this is horrific, horrific story.
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas cop shot wife and five-year-old son before taking
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: his own, before unaliving himself.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 2: Yes. He, uh, so this guy was my, my, my Lieutenant. And, uh,
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 2: you can play the audio if you want. And he's
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 2: kind of, he tells everything right here. And I'll give
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 2: you a little background afterwards.
• 2:20:52
  Speaker 1: Okay. 911.
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 2: What's the address of your emergency?
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: Hi.
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 3: And what's the problem? Tell me exactly what happened. My
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 3: name is Hans Walters. Uh, I work for Las Vegas
• 2:21:04
  Speaker 3: Metropolitan Police Department. I just shot and killed my son, Max,
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 3: and my wife, Michelle. And I killed her because she's
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 3: in such chronic pain from her neck and back and
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: on more medicines, and she's not going to survive. And
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 3: we were both seeing a therapist and a psychologist in
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 3: Boulder City. His name is. I feel terrible for doing it. Okay,
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 3: and you... Please don't interrupt me, please. Okay. I've also
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 3: set the house on fire, and if the fire department
• 2:21:47
  Speaker 3: comes to my house, because there's a fire hydrant right
• 2:21:50
  Speaker 3: in front of my house, I'm going to open fire
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 3: on them. So I have to wait until the house
• 2:21:54
  Speaker 3: is burning, and then I'm going to shoot myself, okay? Okay, sir.
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 3: I don't ask me any questions. This is real. This
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 3: isn't a joke. The fire alarm's in the background because
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 3: I set the garage and the bedroom on fire. My
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 3: wife's in the bedroom. I shot her in the head.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 3: My son, unfortunately, is in the living room watching Oswald,
• 2:22:13
  Speaker 3: and I shot him in the head, too.
• 2:22:15
  Speaker 1: And.
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, forgive me for my sins. Please don't call back.
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 2:22:23
  Speaker 2: So, Hans was my lieutenant. Really? For a period of time, yeah.
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 2: He was my lieutenant for a period of time. And
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 2: he was... One of the most soft-spoken, polite, every time
• 2:22:36
  Speaker 2: he would talk to you, he would say please and
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 2: thank you. Total family man. Wasn't a go-out-after-work drinker type guy.
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 2: Everything in the time that I knew him was about
• 2:22:48
  Speaker 2: his wife and his son Max. I remember there was
• 2:22:50
  Speaker 2: a time, that's him right there, and that's his wife.
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 2: She was a cop at one time. And I remember
• 2:22:54
  Speaker 2: when he was my lieutenant, he would go take time
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 2: off to go take care of her. And he would
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 2: put me to take care of the lieutenant paperwork. And
• 2:23:02
  Speaker 2: he was always just very please and thank you. And
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 2: he was just, I mean, it's so weird for me
• 2:23:08
  Speaker 2: to be able to say that one of the most kind,
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 2: soft-spoken people to me and to the other people that
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 2: he interacted with, which was so wild. So his wife
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 2: had some significant medical challenges there. And when I was younger,
• 2:23:23
  Speaker 2: as I said before, I didn't understand how suffering from
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 2: pain can be so debilitating for a person. Now, this
• 2:23:31
  Speaker 2: is what's really interesting. In this situation, Hans walked outside
• 2:23:37
  Speaker 2: after he shot his wife and his son. And he
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 2: didn't get shot. The police didn't shoot him. And I
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: believe that he wanted it to be a suicide by cop.
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 2: And that's the only reason I can remember. you know,
• 2:23:51
  Speaker 2: muster as to why he would walk outside. But they
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 2: didn't shoot him and he went inside and then he 405'd.
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 2: What's interesting is I told you as I listened to
• 2:23:59
  Speaker 2: the conversation, I listened to the language, what he says
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 2: is he says, please forgive me. What would a person
• 2:24:08
  Speaker 2: normally say? Would you just say, please forgive me? Or
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 2: would you say, God, forgive me? But in my mind,
• 2:24:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like potentially, Theo, you're a negotiator now. Why
• 2:24:19
  Speaker 2: did he not use the word God?
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 1: Because he'd done some things that were bad that God
• 2:24:25
  Speaker 1: wouldn't forgive him for.
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 2: There you go, brother. See, you get this stuff, man.
• 2:24:28
  Speaker 2: You really get this stuff. And that's why that word
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 2: did not come out of his mouth. What a horrific situation.
• 2:24:33
  Speaker 2: But let me tell you something, man. There are some
• 2:24:35
  Speaker 2: people under those circumstances who don't want anyone else to
• 2:24:39
  Speaker 2: raise their kid. Can I speak to why he did that?
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But I can tell you that I
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 2: do have experience with a person who's done something like that.
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 2: And I sent you And there's no audio of this,
• 2:24:51
  Speaker 2: but I did send a file of this case, well,
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 2: Timothy Blackburn. I was a negotiator on the team at
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 2: this time, and my team got the call out for Blackburn.
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 2: I did not negotiate on an FBI agent who was
• 2:25:05
  Speaker 2: connected with Blackburn, negotiated. Quick story of what Blackburn did.
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 2: Blackburn committed a robbery of a vault in Vegas, a
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 2: million plus dollars. A million plus dollars he got away with,
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 2: but he got caught. So Blackburn, that's Blackburn right there.
• 2:25:19
  Speaker 1: Ooh, he's Asian.
• 2:25:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Blackburn got caught. Yeah, Blackburn got caught. What'd you
• 2:25:24
  Speaker 2: think he was?
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: Blackburn?
• 2:25:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:25:27
  Speaker 1: Probably white or black.
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:25:29
  Speaker 2: Well, so he got caught. He's in the North Las Vegas,
• 2:25:32
  Speaker 2: one of the North Las Vegas detention, whatever, because it
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 2: was a federal crime. And his wife breaks him out
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: of the jail. He escapes. She put a screwdriver in
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 2: her hair. He escapes.
• 2:25:43
  Speaker 1: Dude, I would love them.
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 2: There's a manhunt for them, okay? Yeah. It was like
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 2: one of the biggest manhunts in Vegas. And they kept
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 2: telling us that we're going to catch him at some point.
• 2:25:51
  Speaker 2: We're going to catch him. There's a reward. They find
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: him barricaded in one of those daily suite hotels. This
• 2:25:58
  Speaker 2: story's trippy. He doesn't want to talk to anyone on
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 2: my negotiation team. He wants to talk to the FBI
• 2:26:04
  Speaker 2: agent who arrested him. This FBI agent said, Blackburn said,
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: am I looking at much time? He said, your probation
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 2: officer hasn't been born yet. And so Blackburn is in
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: there and they're talking, you know, the FBI agent can,
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 2: you know, hear the kids in the background and Blackburn,
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 2: it's like, it was with his family. You know, he was,
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 2: he was a family guy. So SWAT is set up
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 2: on the house and they're figuring out, you know, whether
• 2:26:36
  Speaker 2: or when to breach, you know, time is on our
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 2: side But here's what happens. A cop I know is
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 2: on the outer perimeter, patrol officer. He's got his shotgun.
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 2: He's moved from one position to the other, slinging his shotgun.
• 2:26:52
  Speaker 2: His shotgun goes off. Blackburn thinks that SWAT is making
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 2: an entry. It was just the guy had a negligent discharge.
• 2:27:00
  Speaker 2: Blackburn then summarily shoots his wife, kid, and himself. SWAT
• 2:27:05
  Speaker 2: goes in just as he's doing that. and shoot Blackburn
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 2: as he's falling to the ground. And even in the
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 2: testimony was that the SWAT officer says, you know, I
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 2: shot a dead man because he killed him. Because Blackburn
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 2: was saying stuff like, I don't want to visit my
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 2: kid through a plexiglass. And he was of the mindset
• 2:27:23
  Speaker 2: that no one else is going to raise my kid
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 2: or be with my woman. And knowing that there are
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 2: people like that. And that is a very, I have
• 2:27:31
  Speaker 2: to walk very carefully when I say these things because
• 2:27:33
  Speaker 2: this is very sensitive information. I'm only speaking from my
• 2:27:36
  Speaker 2: perspective and the information that I have in hopes that
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 2: it could help someone else in the future that if
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 2: you find yourself in a situation god forbid where there's
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 2: a degree of you feel like you can't go on
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 2: without a person you can and everyone has a sanctity
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 2: life and should be able to go on it's just
• 2:27:58
  Speaker 2: in my opinion not the way to go.
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's crazy to think of all the
• 2:28:03
  Speaker 1: little pieces of– all the little avenues of things you
• 2:28:09
  Speaker 1: would never think need to be information or that you
• 2:28:13
  Speaker 1: would glean from an officer, a sergeant, a detective, a
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: hostage negotiator. But the simple fact that you're saying based
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 1: on my information– if you are unaliving yourself, you shouldn't
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 1: unalive other people with you because it's not, that's not
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 1: the way to go. It's just, I don't even know
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: who else even, yeah, I mean, that's an easy thing
• 2:28:36
  Speaker 1: just to say, but you're saying it based on information
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: that you've seen, you know?
• 2:28:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we talked, man, thank you so much today, Chris,
• 2:28:44
  Speaker 1: for joining me, man. I think a lot, it's like,
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 1: it's just interesting. You start to get even more of
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: a scope of like, just what fills up the minds of,
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 1: and the histories and the timelines of officers, of people
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 1: that are there to serve, people that are there to protect,
• 2:29:04
  Speaker 1: and how do they manage all that?
• 2:29:07
  Speaker 2: Cut people slack, too. Cut people slack. When you're driving
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 2: on the road, when you're in a restaurant, cut people slack.
• 2:29:13
  Speaker 2: You could just really avoid so much stuff by taking
• 2:29:17
  Speaker 2: a deep breath and making a different decision. And not
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 2: bullying people, man. All of that stuff can lead to
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 2: a person Doing some bull crap like some of the
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 2: stuff that we see when people barricade and want to
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 2: 405 them.
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because once somebody goes over the edge, they're over
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 1: the edge.
• 2:29:34
  Speaker 2: They're over the edge.
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 1: At that point, the original plateau doesn't matter to them anymore.
• 2:29:40
  Speaker 1: The original gradient of things doesn't matter.
• 2:29:42
  Speaker 2: You know, when I drive, I carry something in my
• 2:29:46
  Speaker 2: center console that will address a road rage situation. And
• 2:29:50
  Speaker 2: it's not what you think. I carry a clown nose,
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 2: a red clown nose. And if I see a person
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 2: driving crazy, I really do this deal. I really do this.
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 2: I put the clown nose on myself. And my only
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 2: rule is I cannot take the clown nose off because
• 2:30:05
  Speaker 2: I know that I'm not going to yell and scream
• 2:30:07
  Speaker 2: at a person while I have the clown nose on.
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 2: And if I take the clown nose off, I'm being
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: a clown. You will not believe how many times that
• 2:30:12
  Speaker 2: has stopped me from acting like an idiot. And it's
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 2: just such a stupid, basic, simple way to avoid road rage.
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 2: Because I'll tell you, The thing that will get the
• 2:30:21
  Speaker 2: average citizen in trouble, two things. One is a domestic
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 2: violence situation, and the number two thing is something that
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 2: they do driving, drinking, or acting like an idiot in
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 2: a road rage. Those are the two things. Those are
• 2:30:31
  Speaker 2: the top two? Say them one more time. So domestic,
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 2: get into a situation, because domestic is brother to brother.
• 2:30:37
  Speaker 2: I've been to so many calls. One time I went
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 2: to a call, a brother got out of the military.
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 2: He was on leave from the military. They got drunk.
• 2:30:42
  Speaker 2: They got into a fight. That's domestic. It's a mandatory arrest.
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 2: So that's an average citizen. And you know that you
• 2:30:50
  Speaker 2: lose your right to carry a firearm then. And it's
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 2: a misdemeanor. And then the other thing is some kind
• 2:30:54
  Speaker 2: of driving, road rage, battery situation that a person gets
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 2: to or drinking and driving.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 1: Those are the top.
• 2:31:00
  Speaker 2: So you call it three because if you want to
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 2: say drinking and driving or road raging and getting into
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 2: a situation where you end up, you know, getting into
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: a fight with someone. Those three things are the civilian
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 2: things that happen all the time. If you can control
• 2:31:12
  Speaker 2: those things, plummet.
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 1: It's already going to be super safe.
• 2:31:16
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Man, Christopher Curtis, thanks so much for hanging out, dude.
• 2:31:21
  Speaker 1: I got to take my mom to eat or I
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 1: would chat a little more.
• 2:31:24
  Speaker 2: No, I'm down, brother. I mean, I really appreciate it.
• 2:31:26
  Speaker 2: It was an awesome experience. Great hotel. Your team is phenomenal, brother.
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 2: You got a really cool team, man.
• 2:31:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, dude. Yeah, I feel really lucky, you know.
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: I think we did a good job today of like
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 1: kind of learning about some stuff. And also some of
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 1: it is just like getting into the psyche of seeing
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 1: what it's like to go through the minds of someone
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: who's gone through your life. And then... Yeah, how do
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 1: you best try to manage it? And then what can
• 2:31:48
  Speaker 1: we even expect out of people who aren't able to
• 2:31:52
  Speaker 1: manage their emotions and mental fatigue? And they're not able
• 2:31:59
  Speaker 1: to manage it, but they're still required to be at work.
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 1: It's a huge asking. It's a huge fucking undertaking.
• 2:32:05
  Speaker 2: It is. But this is good stuff, and I hope
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 2: that it helps officers and civilians alike.
• 2:32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just great to have this conversation, man,
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 1: and we learn more as we go. Christopher Curtis, thank
• 2:32:15
  Speaker 1: you so much, dude.
• 2:32:16
  Speaker 2: You're welcome.
• 2:32:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it. I love that hat, dude. Mi cerote.
• 2:32:21
  Speaker 1: Mi gente, papa. Ahí.
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 2: En la lucha.
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 3: En la lucha.
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you. cornerstone oh but
• 2:32:38
  Speaker 1: When I reach that ground I'll share this peace of
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 1: mind I found I can feel it in my bones