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17. Colton Murray Talks Great Houses · Great Houses

• 0:00
  All right.
• 0:00
  Hello, everybody.
• 0:01
  Thank you so much for joining me on the Great Houses Forum.
• 0:05
  This is a special episode.
• 0:07
  We are here talking with Colton Murray.
• 0:09
  So as, uh, most of you know, the, the Great Houses Forum is, is, uh, sponsored and supported by three wonderful communities, the Exit Group, uh, re- uh, Jethro Sheath's Radical Personal Finance community, and the Classical Society.
• 0:22
  And, uh, Colton Murray comes to us from the Exit Group.
• 0:25
  Uh, he, he spoke on the Exit general call, and if I have my, my calendar schedules correctly identified, then, uh, by the time this episode is publicly released, uh, his, his kind of talk, Colton's talk on the, the Exit general call will be publicly available on the Exit Substack.
• 0:42
  So please feel free to go check that out.
• 0:45
  Um, so today we're gonna talk about, m- you know, not, not just his story, but kind of the, the theory of, of what it means to be a Murray, and how, how Colton thinks about that, and how he, he considers himself a second generation.
• 0:59
  So Colton, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:01
  It's great to have you here.
• 1:03
  Awesome.
• 1:04
  Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 1:05
  Really appreciate it.
• 1:06
  Absolutely.
• 1:08
  So, so go ahead, give, give us, uh, you know, 'cause not all of our listeners will, will have, and certainly the peop- several of the people on the call haven't heard your talk.
• 1:15
  So give us just kind of like a four or five-minute introduction to your family and, and yourself and, you know, the, all the s- the, the, the, the kind of the space you find yourself in, business owner, entrepreneur, you know, uh, acquisition entrepreneurship type of thing that you're doing right now.
• 1:32
  Right.
• 1:32
  Uh, so I, um, I consider myself second generation in the sense that my dad was a founder.
• 1:39
  Um, he had two large business ventures that he went through, um, both in candy actually.
• 1:47
  Um, and we'll, we'll probably talk about it a little bit later, but he- he's getting inducted into the Candy Hall of Fame, um, this year.
• 1:53
  So I mean, he's an OG.
• 1:55
  Wow.
• 1:55
  He worked with all the big chocolate guys, um, through the '80s and '90s.
• 1:59
  Um, so anyway, he, he founded or he bought and then grew one company called Dynamic Confections, was the umbrella, um, that held, uh, a few different chocolate suppliers and wholesalers, manufacturers, um, that became one of the top 10, uh, choc- chocolate manufacturer conglomerates, um, at least in the US.
• 2:21
  But I mean, uh, I don't know.
• 2:23
  There's, there's a Grand Canyon of divide between like Nestle or Mars- Mm-hmm ... and then, you know, someone like our family.
• 2:29
  Yeah.
• 2:29
  Um, but you know, he, he did really well with that.
• 2:33
  If anyone's from Chicago, he also bought Fannie May and saved it, um, from, uh, bankruptcy, and then reopened it, reestablished it, got it back to profitable, and then sold it along with his, the rest of his portfolio, um, in, you know, about 2000, you know, basically up until the, the financial crisis.
• 2:50
  2005 to 2008 he started selling stuff off.
• 2:54
  Um, and then his second venture was Tru Fru, um, which if you haven't heard of, it's in Costco, Target.
• 3:02
  It's going big in the UK right now.
• 3:04
  Um, it's frozen fruit covered in chocolate.
• 3:08
  Um, really fantastic product.
• 3:10
  Truly unbelievable.
• 3:11
  Um, and that was kind of the bigger kickoff because it was a larger brand- Mm-hmm
• 3:15
  which we sold to Mars.
• 3:17
  Um, and I worked there for a while.
• 3:20
  Was really fantastic experience.
• 3:22
  Uh, Taz, my dad- And, and for people who don't know, Mars Corporation- Mm-hmm ... is the corporation behind Which, which chocolates and, and- Like M&M's M&M's Um, I, I'm, I don't wanna get it wrong 'cause I'm trying to remember if they're Kit Kat or Twix.
• 3:35
  I feel like I should know this.
• 3:36
  This is bad.
• 3:37
  Um, but anyway, M&M's- Well, M&M's is big ... is their big flag line.
• 3:40
  Right.
• 3:40
  Yeah.
• 3:40
  Um, and they, I mean, they're, they're private, a family company, just crazy amounts of money.
• 3:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:48
  Um, they, they bought Tru Fru for a lot of money, um, just kind of as an aside.
• 3:55
  Like, it- they truly, they buy companies every year, um, in their investor meeting.
• 4:00
  It's, it's truly incredible what, what family structure they've built.
• 4:04
  Um, so anyway, uh, and kind of what you said, what it means to be a Murray, um, we, we were raised obviously... So we're members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• 4:14
  Um, so it was, you know, church every Sunday, um, very dedicated, and that was a huge part of our lives.
• 4:22
  And part of what the f- the exit call was about was about kind of family history and what that meant, where I was raised surrounded by, like, our bedtime stories very often, besides, like, reading Harry Potter or, like, whatever, you know, our dad reading to us as we'd go to bed, was family stories, ancestor stories.
• 4:39
  Um, there's, you know, the... I, I mentioned on the, on the other call, but there was, like, basically the, the, the great converts of, like, each of my grandparents, their, their, their ancestors that converted to the church and then made the trek across the sea to come to Utah, um, in the, you know, the mid-1800s.
• 4:57
  Um, and that's besides which the ones that converted who were already in the US, 'cause I kind of have both- Both founding stock and, you know, Mormon, Mormon pioneer immigrant stock, um, for my family.
• 5:11
  But like miraculous stories, and so those were like so inspiring.
• 5:15
  And these guys who came, you know, came across the sea literally with nothing, and then built, um, parts of Utah with their bare hands, and just incredible men and women, um, that were so inspiring to me.
• 5:28
  So being surrounded by that and, and incredible miracles of, of faith, of like miraculous healings.
• 5:32
  I, I mentioned, um, my ... So I, I consider myself physically more of m- I look more like my mom's side of the family.
• 5:41
  And my little brother looks almost like a clone copy of my dad's side of the family.
• 5:45
  Awesome.
• 5:45
  So my mom- my maiden name is Brown.
• 5:47
  It's funny.
• 5:47
  Yeah.
• 5:48
  Broader shoulders, shorter neck, whatever.
• 5:50
  My, my brother, he has slender shoulders, really thin.
• 5:53
  Um, I also have my grandpa's dimples.
• 5:56
  Like, so anyway, this, so my mom's ancestor, uh, was Scottish, and he drank a bottle of poison.
• 6:03
  It was furniture cleaner, um, croton oil, and he was dying on the floor.
• 6:09
  They called for a doctor.
• 6:10
  They're like just rural Scotland, um, in a little village, and the doctor comes and said, "He's, he's gone."
• 6:15
  Like, "He's convulsing on the floor." They're like, "There's nothing we can do." And then missionaries show up saying, "We felt, um, we needed to be here." And they said, "Can you please save our son?" And they gave him a blessing in the name of Jesus Christ, and he was healed, um, and saved.
• 6:30
  And so from that point on, they were like, "This is it.
• 6:33
  We, we've gotta go to where this church is." So stuff like that that was like, holy cow.
• 6:38
  Like these people- One, one of the- ... gave up everything.
• 6:40
  Go ahead.
• 6:40
  One of the other things that I, I, I remember thinking about, there, there was a particular story about a relative who lost an arm and then a leg- Mm-hmm ... and then, you know, was, uh, w- what, what was the
• 6:51
  Uh, peg, peg something.
• 6:52
  Peg Leg Sam.
• 6:53
  Yeah.
• 6:53
  Peg Leg Sam.
• 6:54
  A- and what- Samuel Whitney ... what is that like as a kid hearing you're descended from somebody who lost this and lost, and never quit, and was able- Yeah ... to have kids and was able to live a, a full, fulfilling life and kind of, you know, die.
• 7:06
  I mean, my understanding is he, he died with the family gathered around in, in that more or less- Mm-hmm
• 7:11
  you know, traditional the thing, the thing that we all hope for.
• 7:14
  Um- Yeah ... what, like d- were you conscious of that growing up that, that you, your, your family was telling those stories to you to, you know, kind of communicate a certain set of virtues and values?
• 7:25
  Or, or when, when, when did you start to figure that out?
• 7:29
  Really, I figured it out by contrast where- Mm ... um, I didn't realize until I started meeting other people's families.
• 7:35
  That's kind of one of the things where it's like when you're little and you have no idea if your family is wealthy or poor- Right ... um, until you, you get a real contrast.
• 7:42
  Where it was, it wasn't until really getting like
• 7:45
  And 'cause it's not even like, oh, like friends with other families.
• 7:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:48
  Oh, this, you know, this friend, their family doesn't have family dinner every night, whatever.
• 7:52
  Like, those kind of different things.
• 7:54
  But it was more of like when I was like dating and like dating to marry a family- Right ... that I realized.
• 7:58
  I was like, "Oh my gosh, this like- This is a rare thing ... this was, this was a rare thing." Um- Yeah ... and yeah.
• 8:04
  And so I mean, Peg Leg Sam was also a cool example and, and I feel like I got the polyglot from him 'cause he learned like basically every Scandinavian language.
• 8:13
  He learned Welsh.
• 8:14
  Okay.
• 8:14
  He learned English.
• 8:15
  He knew German.
• 8:16
  Um, so he, he knew all these languages 'cause he wanted to greet pioneer.
• 8:19
  And then he also learned Shoshone was the big one that he learned when he was growing up.
• 8:22
  Yeah.
• 8:23
  Um, and so like my parents always told me when I went on my mission, I was the first one in our family to serve a mission foreign language speaking, so I served in Samoa.
• 8:32
  So I learned, I learned Samoan and Tongan, and then I came back and started right into French.
• 8:37
  Um, which my French is just okay.
• 8:39
  But I went on study abroad and, and lived there and, and got into it.
• 8:42
  Um, I wish I would've pursued it down further, but it's, it's okay.
• 8:46
  So anyway, I, I feel like I got that from, from him, which is so cool to be able to connect pieces of me with my ancestors, if that makes sense.
• 8:55
  It absolutely does.
• 8:56
  A- a- I mean, you know, one of, one of the things that I, I ... It is my pleasure to, to, you know, communicate to people is is that there, the, there is a great deal of similarity in the way that, that, that legacy families operate, you know?
• 9:08
  And, you know, one of the things, um, just if I can i- inject this parenthetically.
• 9:13
  Yeah.
• 9:14
  The, the, a lot of people, they will look at legacy families and they'll say, "Well, you know, I couldn't do this. Maybe I couldn't send my kid to Oxford. Maybe I couldn't do, you know, cer- certain things they seem like high dollar, high ticket items or, or stuff that just requires you to be in the tippity-top, you know, percentiles."
• 9:30
  We could all tell stories to our kids about our ancestors, right?
• 9:34
  Like, we could all- Yeah ... and, and, and the great thing about ancestor stories is, you know, the, the, the Most people, as they go through an 80-year life, have at least a couple points in times where, boy, their survival could've gone a different way, right?
• 9:49
  Right.
• 9:49
  You know, boy, there, there, there, there could've been some really incredible things.
• 9:53
  I mean, I mean, especially for, for the families, you know, that, the, the greatest generation, the silent generation.
• 9:58
  They, they lived through all of these world-shaking events.
• 10:02
  They all had war stories.
• 10:03
  Mm. They all came within inches of death.
• 10:05
  Many of them have the... You know, so, you know, my, my great-grandfather, um, was, was, uh, he, he, he... There were so many points in time where the only way, reason he survived was because, you know, he met the right person or he was just able to physically... So one of the great stories about my grandfather is that, uh, for a while there, he, he made double money by turning...
• 10:29
  This was back in the days when you had hand-crank cement mixers, right?
• 10:33
  So the- Oh, wow.
• 10:34
  Yeah ... hand cement mixers that are about the same size as kinda like your, your motorized cement mixer.
• 10:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:37
  Mm. And, and that, that style, that size is because people used to hand-crank them.
• 10:42
  And he worked out a deal where he hand-cranked two at a time, all right?
• 10:46
  And he did that for like two years.
• 10:47
  It almost killed him, right?
• 10:48
  'Cause it was so- I bet, yeah ... physically demanding.
• 10:51
  To do that for eight to 10 hours a day for two machines- Holy cow ... is like a crazy, like just the, the physical feat.
• 10:57
  But you know, I, I grew up with that story, and one of the things that that story taught me was, hey, your family's strong, right?
• 11:03
  Like, your family is, I- you know, strong, strong, strong.
• 11:07
  And so I have, you know, never n- never worried about something like that.
• 11:11
  You know, there, there are, there are families, um- You know, there are families where language is a big deal.
• 11:16
  There are families where, uh, being able to, to, to get married is a big deal.
• 11:21
  And, and, and then there are other families, "Well, of course we stay married," right?
• 11:25
  And we have a bunch of stories about... Is, and, and 'cause, and again, like, like in every life, there's probably a couple of points where each marriage finds itself, you know, but for, but for the grace of God- Mm-hmm ... there go I.
• 11:35
  Yeah.
• 11:36
  And if you can tell those, you find those stories and then tell them to your children, and then tell them, "And they won, and they succeeded, and they kept the faith, and they, you know, were able to do all these amazing things." So stories are really important.
• 11:49
  So, um, yeah, and, and, and so as we're, as we're moving on, uh, let- let's, let's talk about the Murray family mission.
• 11:56
  So how, how, how do you- Yeah ... see that?
• 11:58
  I mean, that, again, that, that's one of my core, core things is people's family mission or maybe even a, a family covenants.
• 12:04
  And, you know, uh, one of the, one of the things that I... For the audience, um, you know, Colton said he was a second generation.
• 12:10
  So the, the, uh, family covenant in the second and third generations is, is more of a, a private understanding.
• 12:17
  It's a sense.
• 12:19
  Uh, that's actually- Mm-hmm ... one of the distinction markers when you have... You know, there's this old famous phrase that says, "Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations," right?
• 12:26
  Um, and one of the key things that makes that difference between a third generation and a fourth generation is the ability to articulate their covenant with God, um, and then to sort of put that out there for outsiders, people that are not family members, and maybe are not even marrying in, to sort of pledge loyalty to it.
• 12:42
  There, there's a, there's usually a kind of a political ascension that, that, that occurs with these sorts of things.
• 12:48
  Um, so- Right ... w- I, I'm not asking, nor q- should Colton- ... probably have a, a, "Here is my family covenant written out in 12-point font." But- But every family that's pursuing legacy goals tends to have a sense, and that sense is we as a family represent something.
• 13:04
  We represent a promise.
• 13:05
  We represent- Mm ... there's something that we do in the world or that we bring about or that we create, and we do that a- as part of a, an, an exchange, a, a, a deal with God or the universe or whatever we believe in in terms of a higher power.
• 13:18
  Very, very, um... I'm not aware of any legacy families that are atheistic in, in, in like a hard-line sense.
• 13:25
  They, they all believe in something bigger than themselves, and they believe that their family has a specific knowable, articulable calling that's like we, we should be able to say, "Well, see, we got a bunch of options," right?
• 13:37
  You know, that, that's the modern world, right?
• 13:39
  You got a bunch of options.
• 13:39
  There's...
• 13:40
  You got money.
• 13:40
  You could spend your money on huge amounts of things.
• 13:44
  Well, you know, let's, let's, um- W- certain options are gonna be more in line with what the family calling is, and certain options are gonna be less align- not that the things that are less aligned are bad, right?
• 13:57
  Someone should do many of these things, but not us.
• 14:00
  We are supposed to guard this particular gate.
• 14:03
  We are supposed to stand on this particular wall.
• 14:05
  We are supposed to make sure that there is food in the storehouse.
• 14:08
  Like, these are, these are categorical distinctions that we can make.
• 14:13
  And so Colton, I'd love for you to kind of talk about your, your family mission with, so with, with that caveat of I'm not- Yeah
• 14:18
  I'm not expecting you or wanting you to- ... to, to pull out some, some hardcore document.
• 14:23
  What, what do you- Mm ... what is your family's sense of their family mission, and how are you articulating that, you know, as, as you move forward?
• 14:31
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  And, and transparently, like when, when you asked about family mission as part of like this call, the first time I ever put it into like just straight up words was I texted it to my parents, 'cause like I wanna represent our family well.
• 14:44
  Um, so just based off of my own like, I don't know, vibes is a, is such a modern word.
• 14:51
  But, um, based off of just what I've been able to distill from you guys' raising me, this what, this is what feels like our family mission.
• 14:58
  And then I wrote it out and sent it to them, and they said, "Yes, well put." Um, and, and my dad, his quote was, "We aren't sure if our plan is working yet or not, but we're definitely conscious of it."
• 15:08
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:08
  So with those disclaimers, um, yeah, it- ultimately the, the, the biggest pillar and some of the like w- when all of my family history stories that I shared in the exit call had to do with God, is that we're trying to become faithful disciples of Jesus Christ.
• 15:24
  That like every family meeting we have, every holiday, uh, my parents share their testimonies of Christ.
• 15:30
  They say, "We believe in, in God." Like this, this is something that is foundational to us and to our successes.
• 15:38
  Um, and that ... And again, you hit it right on the head where they said like w- our reason for being here, um, is to build the kingdom of God, like why we've been blessed with, with this great success.
• 15:49
  Um, and especially on my mom's side, her, her big pull is to help, um...
• 15:54
  So besides us, us become be- like we become better disciples of Jesus Christ, and then externally help other people, both in that regard and then in education.
• 16:05
  Um, so my mom loves with... So she's in charge of the giving trust for our family.
• 16:09
  She loves anything to do with education, scholarships, um, like underprivileged, various different like people who are just, you know.
• 16:17
  Where she firmly believes it's like there, there are so many people out there, like our ancestors, who like had the potential, and it just required one, one lift, um, for them to, to make it.
• 16:27
  And so she's so firm on that 'cause her dad was a PhD and master- Like, he was a chemist and a lawyer.
• 16:34
  He became a patent lawyer for Shell.
• 16:36
  Um, and that was his life, and he was a bishop, and he was an academic and an engineer.
• 16:42
  He was a chemical engineer for the Army Air Corps in World War II, um, in North Africa.
• 16:49
  And like, again, just so many stories that, that we get told all the time that ... And he was a fantastic man.
• 16:55
  So that, that is so important to us- Yeah
• 16:57
  is like our, our first pillar is becoming disciples of Jesus Christ and raising our children.
• 17:03
  So first, I mean, that assumes get married- Mm-hmm ... have kids- Yep ... um, to strive to become such.
• 17:08
  So that's, that's kind of like the how do we keep our family together, what is our common goal is that.
• 17:14
  Um, and then besides that, I don't know if you had anything, Jack.
• 17:19
  But besides that then it was like really just stewardship over what- Mm-hmm ... we've been given.
• 17:25
  Um, like the entitlement or, um, these, these are big things that they've touched on.
• 17:30
  So we have a, a ... One of the awesome Christmas gifts, I'm so grateful for it, um, that one of my siblings gave to my parents was StoryWorth.
• 17:37
  I don't know if anyone's- Mm. .. ever heard of that.
• 17:38
  Yes.
• 17:39
  Oh, yeah.
• 17:39
  It emails a question to your parents or whoever, and then they respond with a story, and it emails back to you, and then it creates like a journal of them.
• 17:46
  So they've been going through that, and a big thing that they've touched on just through their childhood was like they were raised by Great Depression parents.
• 17:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:52
  And so everything matters.
• 17:54
  Like every gift was the best thing ever.
• 17:56
  Like, oh, I got a new dress one time from my dad.
• 17:59
  That was a huge deal.
• 18:00
  He saved up for a year.
• 18:02
  Yeah.
• 18:02
  This was like so important.
• 18:04
  And so they were trying to communicate of like when we give you blank.
• 18:07
  Like it might be like an up ... So for me it's like, oh, they paid for my tuition for Oxford.
• 18:13
  That is a gift.
• 18:14
  Yeah.
• 18:14
  That was huge.
• 18:15
  That was incredible.
• 18:16
  They, they paid for my life to live there with my wife and two kids while she was pregnant with our third.
• 18:20
  Right.
• 18:20
  Like that, that's a big lift, um, for, you know, something that they weren't necessarily expecting but hoped that I would do.
• 18:28
  Um, so that, that was, that was huge.
• 18:30
  So it's becoming, you know, being stewards over what we have.
• 18:34
  We're like, you know, not wasting it away.
• 18:37
  Um, and then the final one is probably like making the world a better place for our kids, which is inherent in the first, I think.
• 18:44
  But, um- But it's there for a reason ... especially with like having kids.
• 18:48
  Yeah.
• 18:48
  Yeah.
• 18:48
  There is repeating of like, but specifically our community locally.
• 18:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:53
  Right.
• 18:53
  Um, and, and part of what I've pushed forward to kind of get inserted into that third pillar is not only just making it better, but making it more beautiful.
• 19:01
  Um, my mom is on board with it of like she's, she has been a great, uh, patron of arts.
• 19:08
  Um, I'd- we- so one of the, I, I might have mentioned earlier, but some of the more publicly available arts that we've, like patroned was like, there's the Tree of Life exhibit at, uh, Thanksgiving Point, um, where we, we financed a lot of statues, including Christ on the cross.
• 19:24
  And, and, and where, where is our community, right, for, for context?
• 19:27
  Oh, sorry.
• 19:27
  We're in, we're in Provo.
• 19:29
  So Utah County especially.
• 19:31
  Um, s- my s- two of my sisters live in Salt Lake- Yeah ... so that, that's kind of included, but largely, especially like Provo area, Utah County.
• 19:40
  Um, so that's sometimes like, so they go on, you know, just two months ago, they, uh, everyone except for me 'cause I, I had work, I have my business, um, went on this big extravagant trip to go see the gorillas in Uganda.
• 19:54
  Um, and it was this great safari and they- Yeah ... met a woman who was like so incredible.
• 20:00
  Um, and we've had family meetings about like, where, where do we want our charity focus?
• 20:03
  Where do we want- Yeah ... to, to give?
• 20:05
  Um, and so it was largely me and I was actually surprised 'cause this is kind of like one of those turning things where over the, you know, over the late 20th century and early 2000s, everyone was like, "We gotta give money to not here.
• 20:19
  Like it's gotta get outta the country.
• 20:21
  I don't wanna help, you know, people near me." But so I was actually pleasantly surprised, um, that a lot of my siblings were on board of like, we've gotta help like the people down our street, like- Yeah ... Utah- Our people ... like our people.
• 20:33
  Yeah.
• 20:33
  Um, and, and so that was so great to hear.
• 20:35
  But, and, but there's always exceptions where it's like it's people that we know.
• 20:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:39
  And so it's like they went on this trip, they found this awesome woman who was like, she was a single mom- Making ends meet, really smart, um, and they're like, "We want to pay for her," 'cause she was trying to go to law school and she was working like eight different jobs, like this whole different thing.
• 20:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:53
  And they're like, "We want, we want her to succeed." And so that was one thing that in our last meeting they're like, "Yeah, let's, let's figure out how to do that." Yeah.
• 20:59
  Um, so s- but it's largely community focused of like we, we wanna help those we know.
• 21:05
  Right.
• 21:05
  Um, so those- So you want the- ... those are kind of the, the biggest pillars
• 21:07
  I, I mean, I think that, that, that statement of we want, we want people to succeed.
• 21:11
  Yeah.
• 21:12
  Like, that's such a ... You know, I, I remember, um, I was talking with a farmer one time and, uh, I think I mentioned this on, on the, the Great Houses calls before.
• 21:20
  But, uh, he, he was talking about people go through these life progressions, right?
• 21:25
  And you can look at a community and, you know, certain number of people, they get to, they, they, they don't graduate from high school.
• 21:31
  Most people graduate from high school.
• 21:32
  Certain number of people make it through college, right?
• 21:35
  And then, and then you start having, you know, life events of, well, a bunch of people don't get married when they wanted to.
• 21:41
  A bunch of people don't, you know, get, have children when they want.
• 21:44
  A bunch of people don't have housing happen the way that they expect it to, you know, especially since the early '90s, um, you know, or the, uh, the mid '90s when, when, when wages started declining as a, as a percentage- Mm ... of the prior generation, and then that drove housing ownership.
• 21:58
  And then that, uh, led to the small government program, uh, you know, the subprime lo- uh, mortgages program- ... which, uh, had a, had a small impact on the r- on the, uh, the pers- the, the next decade.
• 22:07
  Anyway, um- So y- you know, when you look at the populations, the people, you know, that we're supposed to be part of, that we're supposed to take care of, that we're supposed to feel some sort of sense of loyalty and responsibility towards, um, they're not, a lot of them are not succeeding, right?
• 22:27
  And, and- Mm ... there is a sense of, well, it's not my re- it's not my responsibility.
• 22:32
  It's not my fault.
• 22:33
  It's not this, right?
• 22:34
  It's, you know- Mm-hmm ... uh, people are, are wanting to say, "Well, I've checked the box and I've given some money," but nobody is asking the question, you know, uh, who, what would it take to actually have someone be successful?
• 22:45
  And I, and I think about your, you know, you going to Oxford, right?
• 22:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:49
  There's, there's a lot of families where, hey, you got married too quick.
• 22:52
  You had a kid or two, and that means, uh, you, you know, we, you, we'll, we'll help you pay- Game's over ... for college, but you've gotta- Yeah ... you know, you've just gotta solve the problem, and if there's no space in Oxford, if there's no program, if somebody else isn't gonna solve that problem for you, well, that's not our, our problem.
• 23:07
  And your family, I think this is- Mm ... this is one of the- The things where we, we ha- you know, it, we communicate a lot of times to young people, you have to take responsibility.
• 23:15
  And they absolutely, if they're gonna be successful, you gotta take responsibility.
• 23:18
  But we as groups, we as, as communities, we have to take responsibility, and I wanna highlight that example of that's a great example of your parents taking responsibility.
• 23:29
  And, and Oxford was not your fir- your family's first choice, right?
• 23:32
  As I recall- No ... we talked about that.
• 23:34
  Um, yeah.
• 23:35
  So my dad was a Harvard guy, and, um, he went there with all three of, so, uh, three of his brothers.
• 23:41
  His two brothers and him.
• 23:42
  So they were all there at the same time.
• 23:44
  Him and his little brother were getting their MBAs, and his older brother was at Harvard Medical.
• 23:49
  Um, and obviously their dad, so my grandpa, Papa Bob, um, was, you know, overjoyed.
• 23:57
  He was a, he was a business academic himself.
• 24:00
  Um, he was also a Korean, uh, Korean War pilot, um, flew fighters And, I don't know, again, a q- an incredible man, truly great.
• 24:13
  Um, so anyway, he- they were all at Harvard.
• 24:16
  My dad was all about Harvard.
• 24:16
  He met fantastic people.
• 24:18
  Um, his business partner, long time, Dave Tackett, um, he-- my dad always said that Dave was a better Catholic than he was a Mormon.
• 24:26
  Um, just a great guy that they, they partnered, they were great friends, and they, they built their businesses together.
• 24:33
  Um, and I still talk with Da- like, Dave just gave me a, a recommendation for my business.
• 24:38
  Like, and that's- Yeah ... that's my dad's business partner, which is, like, so cool, these family connections.
• 24:42
  So a- anyway, you know, from when I was little, I was like, "I have to get to Harvard. That is something that I have to do." Um, it-- 'cause, you know, competitiveness with your parents, whatever.
• 24:53
  Like, in my mind growing up, I was like, "I gotta be more successful than my dad.
• 24:56
  I have to be taller than him." Um, which it, it's funny, I ended up the exact same height as him.
• 25:02
  We, we measured.
• 25:03
  Me, my brother, and him are the exact same height.
• 25:06
  Yeah.
• 25:06
  So funny that that worked out.
• 25:08
  Um, so anyway, I, I worked my butt off.
• 25:11
  Um, and I took the GMAT, um, got 99th percentile.
• 25:17
  I was o- across the board with extracurricular, curriculars work experience.
• 25:22
  I was a, I was, I was a guy.
• 25:25
  I was gonna be a candidate for Harvard according to their own metrics.
• 25:28
  I was top of the line.
• 25:29
  Um, but they didn't even give me an interview, and my dad, he still has friends who are professors there, contacted them and was like, "What is going on?" And they were like, "Th- it is a different place.
• 25:40
  Um, you don't want your son here." Yeah. "And, uh, honestly, the professors wouldn't want him here.
• 25:45
  Um, so he wouldn't feel welcome, and it would be sad." And this happened, I was talking with Greg right before the call, but, um, it, that happened with one of his friends.
• 25:56
  So l- again, he met incredible people.
• 25:58
  Uh, one of his friends that actually ended up getting married, too, they were both up there at Harvard at the same time, um, as him.
• 26:06
  So two of his classmates, they had a, a daughter who, kind of similar exact vibe, like we're basically the same age.
• 26:12
  She was like, "I have to get to Harvard" And their family was extremely wealthy, extremely giving, great family.
• 26:18
  Um, her mom was actually on the board of admissions, and she went through all, she jumped through all the hoops.
• 26:23
  She was pulling all the back strings, doing everything that you would expect, and similarly, they snubbed her.
• 26:28
  Um- Mm-hmm ... and she even, she did the one, the, what was it?
• 26:31
  I think it was two plus two program at Harvard where you- Yeah ... get an MBA and then another.
• 26:35
  She applied to that, and that's the only application they give you feedback on, and they said, "You're a shoo-in.
• 26:40
  Just apply again next year.
• 26:41
  Like, you've got it." Um, and she applied again the next year, and again, zero.
• 26:46
  No interview, nothing.
• 26:48
  Wow.
• 26:48
  Um, and so the family was like, "Whoa. We are never donating another, you know, dirty cent to this place." Um, and so she got into Oxford.
• 26:56
  Yeah.
• 26:57
  Went there.
• 26:57
  We, we ended up going at the same time, so it was just cool coincidence that, like, I think it was 30-something years later Um, me and this family friend were going to Oxford at the same time, um, similarly to our parents having gone to Harvard together at the same time.
• 27:12
  So it was, it was a cool coincidence, and it, it worked out how it was supposed to.
• 27:15
  Well, and, and the thing that I want to just highlight there is your family, your father contended for you.
• 27:20
  He reached out and w- and, and when- Yeah ... he was told no, he took the position, "My son was a good kid, he was a good candidate.
• 27:27
  He did everything I asked for, and you're punishing him for..." I mean, we all know the reasons, right?
• 27:32
  Yeah.
• 27:32
  Um, but, but, but, but I, I think this is one of those key differentiators, right?
• 27:38
  There, there's a lot of families where the parents at some level said, "Well, the problem must be with my kid," or it's just- Yeah
• 27:45
  not our time, or, or what, you know, that we, we, you know, maybe some kind of weird twisted reparations type of thing.
• 27:50
  "Well, we, you know, we had our time and now somebody else's time in the limelight and, and therefore it's okay- Yeah ... that my kid gets punished for the- Gets destroyed, yeah ... you know, the sins of, of, of, of ancestors that aren't even his," et cetera, et cetera.
• 28:03
  And so, um, you know, I think there, there's such a powerful just attitudinal frame of saying, "No, my kid was great." He, I mean, you said he was a lifelong fan of, of Harvard, and when they- Yeah ... treated you that way, he has changed his mindset because he was loyal- Yeah ... to you.
• 28:18
  And, and, and, and, you know, these are, these are basic things.
• 28:21
  These are things we would hope we would all do, but they bear repeating because unfortunately- Mm ... they're, they're not common.
• 28:28
  They, they, this is, this is not what every family does.
• 28:31
  But, and I, and I'm gonna say this again- You don't need a, a, a bajillion dollars to- Mm ... to take that response.
• 28:39
  You don't need- Yeah
• 28:40
  a huge financial resources to be on the, your kid's side to say, "You know what?
• 28:44
  I was there, he sweated, he worked, he did everything he could, and, and he's getting walled out, and that's not on him.
• 28:52
  And so I'm on his side.
• 28:53
  And so yeah, we're gonna send him to Oxford, and yeah, we're gonna figure out a way to help pay for his, you know, for his wife to be there and his kids to be there, 'cause family is important to us, and we're gonna live consistently with our values."
• 29:03
  All right, so, uh, uh, enough of my soapbox.
• 29:05
  Yeah.
• 29:06
  So, you know, I mean, and it's really interesting you talking about your friend.
• 29:09
  You know, in many ways the, the Ivy League, as we understand it, happens- Mm ... because a bunch of family trusts get created around the time that the income tax is, is introduced- Mm ... in this country for obvious reasons.
• 29:21
  Um, you can go, you can go Google that.
• 29:23
  We, we won't get into that here.
• 29:24
  Um, uh, but, but a bunch of family trusts are created around that time, and the way that those trusts worked is they had a vetting process, right?
• 29:32
  You said, "We want to, we want our kids to go through some kind of moral qualification, uh, to, to be, to gi- be given access to the family resources.
• 29:41
  And instead of having that more clearly defined, we're just gonna outsource it to, you know, Harvard or Yale or, you know, this list of, of colleges.
• 29:50
  What, you know... And, and, and- When you kind of add up, you get a access to se- several of those, those big family trusts and you sort of l- you know, concatenate the list, it's like, oh, this is the Ivy League.
• 30:01
  And so they had access to... So when, when a kid successfully graduated from one of these legacy families, the school got paid, the trustee got paid, and the kid got paid.
• 30:10
  And so everyone ha- desired this to happen.
• 30:13
  And, and, and, you know, there, there's a lot of, you know, people talk about trust fund babies and, and there's, there's certainly some problems there.
• 30:19
  Um, but you know, that system worked really well.
• 30:22
  Uh, fr- frankly, I, I think, you know, o- one of the questions that I have is wh- what allowed the colleges to suddenly move away from those sources?
• 30:31
  Like, they must have access to some other source of funding because they're pissing off all of these long-term donors.
• 30:37
  And, and there- Mm-hmm ... there has to be, like something has to be creating the optionality that allows them to do that.
• 30:43
  Um, so you know, thi- things we will probably never know.
• 30:45
  But, but- ... but it's interesting.
• 30:46
  So, so, you know, I mean, what was your, you know, kind of experience at, at, you, you, you mentioned as we were kind of going through for this that- Mm-hmm
• 30:53
  you, you were almost raised on some horror stories about, about, uh, family trusts.
• 30:57
  So, so talk a little bit about that.
• 30:58
  Oh, yeah Um, so part of that where I've, I've especially when the trust first got created after- Yeah ... selling True Fru, and it was kind of like my dad was successful before, but it kind of got to the point where it was like there, there's a serious amount of money that should be forever.
• 31:15
  Um, and, uh, I knew of some stories because of either our family friends, which obviously my dad would know, but then also through my marriage, so kind of distant relatives on my wife's side, um, that ran into some of these problems that I also was like, "I don't know if I want my son to hear these stories," because it might scare him into, you know, um, being a little bit more tight or giving all the money away, something.
• 31:39
  I don't know.
• 31:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:40
  Just r- 'cause it, there is a serious risk.
• 31:43
  Um, and like you mentioned, there's, there's a great propensity for families to, uh, to run out of money third generation.
• 31:50
  Um, so like how, how do you get to that fourth generation?
• 31:52
  How do you, how do you make it really a forever family that doesn't ruin the kids?
• 31:56
  'Cause their first priority- Right ... was that we were good.
• 31:59
  Right.
• 32:00
  Um, that we, we become good people.
• 32:03
  Um, 'cause in their mind they're like, "Then what else matters?" Like, if all this, we have all this money in the world, but you, the siblings all hate each other, we're suing each other.
• 32:10
  Right.
• 32:11
  He's like, "Then, then what's the point?"
• 32:12
  Right.
• 32:13
  So some of those, like one of them was a Salt Lake family, um, that incredibly successful billionaires.
• 32:20
  Um, and one of the sons got access to money pretty quickly, um, 'cause they didn't really have a very structured trust.
• 32:27
  Um, and he got into alcohol and drugs, um, and just kind of lived in the fast lane that way until he overdosed.
• 32:34
  Right.
• 32:34
  Um, and it, and he had kids.
• 32:37
  Yeah.
• 32:37
  And it messed up their whole... And so they had to write a ton of rules on the trust of like- Right ... different verifications and it's, it's had cascading effects now down to the third generation where it's like, and also inequality between these families because, because he died, part of the trust was, oh, once that, once each child, the second generation dies, their entire set of assets gets transferred to the third generation.
• 32:59
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:59
  Because they just kind of expected, oh, you will live a long time, save some kind of tra- like, tragedy like cancer or whatever.
• 33:05
  But like- The, it wasn't really a, a, a foresight because it was like they believed they had raised their kids well.
• 33:11
  Um, but I mean, even the first generation had some marriage problems, so it was, it was a different story, but still.
• 33:18
  So that was, like, a horror story that my, my parents were familiar with, and so th- they're trying to figure out, like, how do we safeguard against that?
• 33:24
  And then there was ... So on my wife's side, there's a family down in Arizona, similarly also oil, um, and they, uh, one of the sons, second generation, worked really hard.
• 33:36
  He was one of the ones that was like, "I'm a builder." Like, "I see this.
• 33:38
  We have a, a s- a smallish trust," small, you know, whatever- Mm-hmm ... relatively.
• 33:43
  Relative.
• 33:43
  Um, yeah, that, that ... 'Cause it was multi-million, and he was like, "We can make this billions." Mm-hmm.
• 33:48
  Um, took advantage.
• 33:50
  This is, like, you know, similar, again, golden age America, like '80s.
• 33:52
  He's like, "I'm, I'm grabbing hold of this thing and we're riding." Um, and so he, he builds this empire.
• 33:58
  Right.
• 34:00
  And makes so much money, and then his wife and kids all just, like ... Oh, it was so sad.
• 34:08
  It, his wife was terrible.
• 34:10
  She wanted, I'm trying to remember what the number was.
• 34:13
  She wanted, like, $20 million or something, um, and wanted, decided to turn the kids against him, and she just- Yeah
• 34:20
  wanted to basically walk away.
• 34:21
  She just wanted the money and was like, "I want it to be mine. Not ours, mine." Mm. Um, and she wanted to take it from the family trust.
• 34:28
  There was th- there was this whole ordeal where he was like, "I can't just write you a check for this money." Like, the, we have structures that have set up, like, this is for, you know, to make it forever.
• 34:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:37
  Um, and so it turned to lawsuits, and the kids, you know, followed the mom, which was so sad 'cause the guy was great.
• 34:43
  Um, and he was a great dad.
• 34:45
  Yeah.
• 34:46
  But again, it's like, it's, it's powerful when you d- when you don't spend all day with your kids and your wife does.
• 34:50
  Like- Yeah ... she has direct access.
• 34:52
  Um, so it's, it's one of those horror stories.
• 34:54
  Like, I don't, I'm not trying to demoralize anyone, but, um- Yeah ... just really sad- Well, I, I- ... 'cause it, it's rare ... I mean, I think these are, the, the, these are the things that we have to contend with, right?
• 35:01
  This is- Yeah ... this is the reality of our, of our world and, and, and, and the time that we live in.
• 35:06
  And, and I think a lot of it is, you know, you, you, you
• 35:10
  We have to adopt a wartime footing.
• 35:12
  Like, I think what, what happened- Yeah ... to a lot of these families is, you know, in the '80s and '90s is they, it, y- you know, they left thinking, "Well, the community will help my wife, and, and, and the- there, there will be some positive influ- there will be some, some co- core of people that are gonna, that are gonna encourage her to stay with me or, or help her," and it's like, no.
• 35:33
  No, there isn't, right?
• 35:34
  And, uh- Yeah ... unless you as the guy curate- Mm ... that, create that, create some kind of bubble or container, right, uh, that, that allows that to happen, uh, there isn't anything.
• 35:46
  Um, and- Yeah ... so you're, you're, you're ... One of, one of the, one of the things, you know, I, I talk a lot about covenant, is we, we, we have to, we have to start asking, okay, what, what are the co- what are the promises that people have made us, right?
• 35:59
  Right.
• 36:00
  If you leave your, your family in an environment where all of the media and all of the- Mm ... you know, everything at the grocery store and all the magazines and all the friend groups and all the, you know, the women's Bible studies.
• 36:10
  I don't know if that's really a, a, as much of a problem- ... in the LDS Church as it is in the, in the general evangelical world, but women's Bible studies- Mm
• 36:17
  man.
• 36:17
  Oh, gosh.
• 36:18
  Um, y- you leave your wife alone with those, those groups- You need to understand that you are leaving them alone with, with n- not just people that have not made any promises to you, people that have made public affirmations of promises to people that hate you, right?
• 36:33
  They have, they- Yeah ... they have declared loyalty in a civilizational struggle, and you have to take that seriously, right?
• 36:39
  And, and, and one of the... I mean, the good news, the hopeful news is once you take it seriously, if you say, "Okay, I'm going to think about this.
• 36:46
  I'm going to behave rationally.
• 36:48
  I'm going to devote resources to this," there's actually a lot of things you can do, especially when you, you know, get... I mean, if, if you're a small family, you know, $5 million and under, y- you basically just gotta pick a really good church and hope for the best.
• 36:59
  Uh, but- ... but once you start to accumulate significant resources, these are all very solvable problems if you- Mm ... put some thought into it, if you, you know, kind of say, "Hey, I'm, uh, this, this is a priority for me." So that's- Yeah ... but, but, but we, but what we can't do is, is just say, "Oh, no, it's, you know, it, it, the, the, the world is basically good and the country is basically good, and if I...
• 37:23
  You know, I just, I don't have to, I don't have to think about this," right?
• 37:26
  Uh, you know, that, one of the great things about high-IQ people is once you start thinking about it, a lot of it is very solvable, right?
• 37:33
  Um- Yeah ... and, and so that, again, that's, that's my message of hope.
• 37:36
  If you're high IQ and you have resources-
• 37:38
  these are very solvable problems.
• 37:40
  Most of the guys on the internet have no resources and are not that smart, and so they are running into insurmountable problems.
• 37:46
  Now, as I often say, there- Mm ... for those of us that, that have a community mindset, maybe there's an opportunity there to solve problems for these guys that they cannot solve for themselves.
• 37:55
  That, that, that, that might be an interesting thing to explore at some point.
• 37:58
  But, but g- Yeah ... coming back to your family, um- Yeah ... you know, I, I'd, I'd love to hear you talk, you talked a little bit about your mom being a patron in, patron of the arts.
• 38:07
  What, what- Mm ... what does that look like for you and, and, and especially have you seen relationships, like, yous- you talk about sponsoring a tree, sponsor...
• 38:15
  W- who are the people that your mother is maintaining relationships with in that, in that frame?
• 38:22
  Um, yeah, it's a great question.
• 38:23
  So part of it is just a lot of the, I don't know, I'm trying to think of the right word.
• 38:29
  There's, there's kind of like a, a class of artists who have done art for the church.
• 38:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:34
  For example, in Utah, because it's such a dominating force and- Right ... has a high need for art kind of constantly.
• 38:40
  Um, so there's, there's a lot of really fantastic artists here and sculptors.
• 38:44
  Um, so the Tree of Life thing, that was like a, a statue exhibit of like, it's like a park full of statues.
• 38:51
  Right.
• 38:51
  Um, and so I, I'm trying to remember exactly how she got, uh, involved with that.
• 38:56
  That was actually, I think, through church.
• 38:58
  There was ... She heard, she had a friend who knew that there was this sculptor who was basically doing a display exhibit all in clay.
• 39:06
  So it was miniature.
• 39:07
  I think it was like a one to maybe 200 something.
• 39:09
  Oh, okay.
• 39:10
  Um, uh, 'cause it's huge.
• 39:12
  It's, it's a huge ... It, it's a whole park of, of statues.
• 39:15
  Right.
• 39:15
  Um, and so you could go in and see her vision for this thing.
• 39:19
  And so she went and took the young woman, um, in our congregation, 'cause she was a leader for them.
• 39:24
  Um, and they went and it was this beautiful experience, and she said, "How do I get involved? Like, how, how do I help? How do I make this reality?"
• 39:31
  Um, and the, the sculptor, you know, came and was like, "Actually, yeah, we're looking for funding and this is how much we need." Um, and my mom was like, "Is, has Christ on the cross already been paid for?" And she's like, "No, that's one of our big-ticket items." Um, and so she donated to get that done.
• 39:47
  And, and in my
• 39:49
  They then came to our family and said, "Hey, we want to help fund this-" this project, what does, what does each of you wanna do?
• 39:56
  And I said, "Are they doing a soundtrack?" I love music.
• 39:58
  It- that's always touched my soul.
• 40:00
  Mm. From when I was a little kid, I was a, a, a weirdo, um, that listened to classical music only, um, until I was, like, 18.
• 40:07
  Nice.
• 40:08
  Um, classical music and whatever.
• 40:10
  And, like, I, my junior year of high school, I, I listened to Handel's Messiah year-round.
• 40:14
  Like, again, it was, I was a weirdo.
• 40:17
  But I was playing football, so it was like I got socially normalized, which was awesome.
• 40:20
  Really appreciated it.
• 40:22
  And then also I still had this weird, like, side to me.
• 40:24
  I don't know.
• 40:25
  We all played piano.
• 40:26
  We all grew- Mm-hmm ... up playing piano, so that was another part of just kind of our education as kids.
• 40:30
  Um, had to until we were at least 16.
• 40:33
  Um, anyway, so I got to fund the soundtrack.
• 40:36
  Uh, so I got to work with a composer who was local.
• 40:39
  Um, he was really fantastic.
• 40:41
  Uh, he, he's done a few movie scores.
• 40:44
  Um, and then we went to Prague to record the, uh, the live orchestration of it with the Prague Philharmonic.
• 40:51
  So it was a really cool experience.
• 40:53
  And kind of what you said of, like, those circles where, like, for example, the education one.
• 40:57
  So the current president of our church, President Oaks, um, he's very involved in education.
• 41:01
  I think ... I'm trying to remember if it's his sister or- Mm-hmm ... if it's his wife's sister.
• 41:05
  Anyway, there's a relative that, last name Oaks similarly, um, so it's gotta be w- his, um ... Anyway, it's, I think it's his daughter.
• 41:12
  His family.
• 41:13
  Some- in some way.
• 41:13
  Yeah, his family.
• 41:14
  Um, and who's really involved with BYU and UVU, both the, uh, universities here, like, in Provo-Orem.
• 41:22
  Yeah.
• 41:22
  Um, and so they're going to meetings with them over scholarships and, and different dinners and banquets, and so there's ... I don't know.
• 41:28
  There, there is a, a real Utah community of these kinda high-powered people, and I was part of ... Actually, I, I was the one who connected us with, there's one called Monument of the Americas up in- Mm-hmm
• 41:40
  Heber.
• 41:41
  Um, really fantastic project, um, by these great sculptors who, um, classically trained in Italy, like, fantastic, um, who are making the sculptures of both the founding of America, so, like, Washington- Yeah ... Jefferson, like, really cool projects, as well as with our belief, the Book of Mormon, Christ in the Americas.
• 41:58
  Um- Yeah ... and so we funded the Behold Your Little Ones fountain.
• 42:03
  So it's, like, a brass three-tiered fountain.
• 42:05
  Um, classical, beautiful angels walking around with children.
• 42:08
  Um, and so our, our children and my nieces from my sister all get sculpted into this fountain.
• 42:14
  And then the, the selling point, to go back to Kind of the Covenant, was that they, my parents get to write their testimonies of Christ and have them immortalized- there.
• 42:24
  So like there- Yeah ... will be plaques around the foun- 'cause, 'cause we funded it ourselves.
• 42:28
  So the, the fountain is 100% our family.
• 42:30
  Um, and it features like Moses and Abraham kind of like ... It's, it's really cool.
• 42:34
  I can't wait until it's ... Uh, I think it's two or three years.
• 42:37
  Um, but I don't know.
• 42:38
  That- that'll be so cool.
• 42:40
  Anyway, they get to have just however long they want a plaque- Yeah ... right o- either on the fountain or next to it that says, you know, "This is who we are, and we believe in Christ." Um, and for me to bring my kids- Mm-hmm ... in 10 years- Right ... to that fountain and say, "Your amazing grandparents funded this, and here's you as a three-year-old sculpted- Right
• 43:05
  you know, immortalized in bronze, and here is their testimony of their belief in God." Um, so I like that word covenant that you ... 'Cause I mean, that's a very big, I don't wanna say like trigger word, like 'cause in a positive way.
• 43:18
  Like that's a huge- Yeah.
• 43:19
  Yeah ... hot button for, for members of our church- Yeah ... of making covenants with God.
• 43:23
  And I think part of it is my parents ... My dad talked to me, uh, once or twice about promise, like giving, basically promising God different things of like, "I'm gonna do the best I possibly can." Same with my mom, of like, "I will do everything I possibly can to be, you know, to be better, to be a good disciple of Jesus Christ."
• 43:43
  Um- Yeah ... and so whatever you bless me with, like or like for example, with my dad's businesses, there was a, been a few times where I think he kind of had that negotiate where God is a vending machine and, you know, different whatever beliefs.
• 43:56
  But like he, he said like, you know, "Please help me with this," and he did.
• 44:00
  And, and- Yeah ... my dad made promises to God of like, "I will do this if, if this." And similarly with me.
• 44:06
  Like I, it was crazy.
• 44:07
  Just, just like a month ago, I was hitting a wall at my work with sales where I was just like, I was so demotivated.
• 44:13
  I'm like, "I'm making these cold calls.
• 44:14
  I'm traveling trying to get the
• 44:16
  Like I'm trying to grow this business where I'm like I've staked my house.
• 44:19
  Right.
• 44:19
  I've staked ... Like I, I basically took out a loan with my dad, like with guarantor a- against- I mean, it- ... where basically if I lose out on it- It's sort of against your inheritance, right?
• 44:27
  Yes.
• 44:28
  Yeah.
• 44:29
  Um, so it's, it's still technically my money, whatever, but like it, and it's l- loan money, so it's like it wasn't like, "Oh, here's a bunch of money into your account."
• 44:36
  It was like, "This is against my..." whatever.
• 44:38
  So anyway- Um, took out this loan, and so I'm like, "I, I gotta be successful. I gotta, I gotta make it. I gotta make it happen." Right.
• 44:46
  Um, and I, I remember just pleading with God that night.
• 44:48
  I was like, "Please help me find something.
• 44:51
  Like, I, I need to be better.
• 44:53
  I need to be a better husband.
• 44:54
  I need to be a better, uh, father, um, and, but better disciple.
• 44:58
  Like, so first help me do that- Mm-hmm ... and then help me with my business, please." And the next day floodgates opened, where it was just like- Yeah ... and, a- and it was a spiritual experience where I was like, "Wow, God really cares about me and my business."
• 45:13
  Like, you know, these are worldly, secular things, but it's like a part of our, what we've grown up to know is, like, God cares about us and our mission, where, like, He wants us to be successful, um, for whatever reason.
• 45:25
  For part of it, I think, is to hopefully, you know, help Utah, beautify it, do all these awesome things.
• 45:31
  And, and we're not even, like, anywhere close to the, some of the biggest men- we're not b- billionaires.
• 45:37
  Right.
• 45:37
  Um, and but there are some of the... There's quite a few of those in Utah, and I don't know.
• 45:43
  So it's just fascinating.
• 45:44
  I love that we are able to make those covenants with God.
• 45:47
  Yeah, I mean, it, it, it's really interesting.
• 45:48
  Again, I think, I think so much, there's so much in that early childhood training, that early, those stories that get told and retold, 'cause it, it trains you to think of, "Hey, may- maybe I can, maybe I can pray a prayer. Maybe I can ask for something and receive it." Because I think what a, what happens to a lot of people, you know, Young talked about, uh, wanting to know what, what, what story you're in so that you're not, you know, playing in a tragedy, right?
• 46:12
  Maybe you could, maybe you could- Yeah ... play a different character in a different story, and maybe that would be better for you.
• 46:16
  I think the modern problem is we don't think we are in a story.
• 46:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:20
  I, I, I don't, I don't think... I think our lives are so disconnected, and they're so c- chaotic, and there's so much, you know, weird feedback that we get that most people are not in a story in that sense, uh, which is a really destructive thing.
• 46:32
  And, and one of the, the ways that I notice that is, like, I, I come in and I help people put together their stories.
• 46:37
  That's, that's w- like 90% of my time is spent doing something that could be described that way, um, in terms of my consulting practice.
• 46:45
  And v- so I find those things for people where it's like, "No, no, you asked for this, and then you got this a couple days later.
• 46:52
  Do you see how, how that could be the answer to your prayer?" And, and, and they, they look at it and they think, "Oh, wow.
• 46:59
  You know, maybe, I guess it is," right?
• 47:00
  But they didn't see it innately.
• 47:01
  So, so in our, i- in the next, like, 10 minutes, tell, tell us about your business, and then we'll, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll cover some more, more fun and exciting things after, after- Yeah.
• 47:09
  uh, we, we, we leave our public audience behind.
• 47:11
  So tell, tell us about- Yeah ... your business and, and the, the, the path- Yeah ... that got you there.
• 47:15
  Um, so again, going back where it's like these, I think, were, are gonna be those kind of stories that we tell, um, our kids where it's like I was getting my MBA at Oxford.
• 47:25
  Um, I was considering becoming a consultant, selling my soul.
• 47:28
  Not, no offense to any of the consultants in here.
• 47:31
  Um, but... And one of my best friends who I made during that year in Oxford, um, there was like six group of guys of, um, Latter-day Saints all at the same time getting their MBA, and it was so cool, so we became incredible friends.
• 47:45
  Um, one of them, he's a McKinsey consultant, and he's, he's so funny.
• 47:47
  Um- God bless them.
• 47:49
  Yeah, God bless him.
• 47:51
  He's, yeah, and it was funny, we did the calcula- where he's so smart.
• 47:54
  But it was like when we were talking about, like, different pays and different stuff where he has a crazy good salary.
• 47:58
  And then we're like, "What is your actual hourly?
• 48:00
  Like, you're working beyond 80 hour week, weeks.
• 48:02
  Like, let's break it down." And he was like, "Ah, I'm making like 30 bucks an hour." It's like, oh man.
• 48:08
  Many such cases.
• 48:10
  Yeah, yeah, so many.
• 48:11
  Anyway, um, so I was going down these different roads of like, okay, you know, I have now the credential.
• 48:17
  Like- Mm-hmm ... is, whatever, uh, tradition says I should be able to find this fantastic job, but I know the economy's hard and different.
• 48:24
  I'm, you know, I'm, I know what time it is.
• 48:27
  Um, and so I was just scrambling to find... And at first I was looking in the UK and in Europe, um, and in the Middle East or especially Australia.
• 48:37
  We were like- Yeah ... "Let's go live in Australia." We had our two kids.
• 48:39
  That was it.
• 48:40
  Um, and we're... And not, and we wanted to have more kids in the future, but we're like, "Okay, we'll have two, wait a few years, you know, work a little bit, have two more, wait a bit, have two more."
• 48:49
  Um, just kinda go like that.
• 48:52
  And so I was looking- You're vlogging the low fertility people in here.
• 48:55
  That's okay.
• 48:56
  I, I support this.
• 48:57
  I support this.
• 48:58
  Yeah.
• 48:59
  So yeah.
• 49:00
  And that was our plan.
• 49:02
  Um, and so that's where I was looking for jobs and applying.
• 49:05
  Um, I was going through interviews, and then we found out we were having, um, our third.
• 49:10
  So we, our kids are three, two, and one as of, like, basically last week.
• 49:14
  They're almost Irish twins in a row, Irish triplets, whatever.
• 49:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 49:18
  Um, and so our then about, like, going to be two-year-old, um, whatever, we, we, we found out we were having our third.
• 49:28
  Um, and there's a family joke now on, on both our sides of the family like, "You know how it works, right?"
• 49:33
  Like, 'cause we're having, like, three kids, literally an annual child.
• 49:36
  And they're like- Uh-huh ... "You know how to prevent this?" And we're like, "Yes, we understand," but um- Well, my, well, my wife and I always say when people ask us questions like that, "Well, you know, you gotta keep doing what you're good at." There we go.
• 49:46
  Hey, thank you.
• 49:48
  Stick, stick with me, man.
• 49:49
  I got, I got- Next family party.
• 49:50
  Holy cow ... I got a whole bunch of those.
• 49:51
  I've got a lot now.
• 49:52
  I got a whole bunch of those.
• 49:55
  Uh, yeah, so anyway, we find out we're having our third, and we're like, "Oh my gosh, we need to be by family. Um, we n- we need to go back to Utah." Mm-hmm.
• 50:01
  And I was like, "What on earth kind of job can I get in Utah?" And also it was like, as we kind of figured out, like, what do we want our life to look like, um, all these different things, and we were just praying together- Mm-hmm ... um, as husband and wife, like, "Please help us find something." My dad comes out.
• 50:15
  I was playing football, um, for Oxford, for the Oxford team.
• 50:18
  American football, I should say.
• 50:20
  Um, so it's not that serious, uh, but it was great fun.
• 50:23
  Um- And which also, I mean, I was given a half blue.
• 50:27
  I don't know, that, that'll mean some- something to someone.
• 50:29
  But, um, anyway, so I was there.
• 50:33
  My dad came out for a game.
• 50:34
  He wanted to come see me play, which was really fantastic of him.
• 50:37
  Um, he made the flight, whatever.
• 50:39
  And so, and it was an away game, um, over in Brighton in the UK, and we had a few-hour drive, just me and him, um, 'cause I didn't wanna go on the team bus.
• 50:47
  I just wanted to spend time with my dad.
• 50:48
  Um- Yeah ... and so I was asking him, I was like, "What different entrepreneurs do you know?"
• 50:52
  Like, I, I might just need to start a business.
• 50:54
  And it's funny 'cause I had a call with the ETA guys, um, yesterday, where it was like, I was like, "I'm not a builder.
• 51:01
  I'm not a business builder.
• 51:03
  Um, that's not who I am.
• 51:04
  I'm a buyer." I've realized that now, but at the time I was like, "I gotta figure something out."
• 51:08
  So I was like, "Maybe I build a business." Um, so I just need to talk with some entrepreneurs.
• 51:12
  And he was like, "Oh, you need to talk to these three guys." Um, and I talked with one of them.
• 51:16
  He owns a oil recycling refinery in Utah or in American Fork with a few different LLCs under the umbrella.
• 51:23
  Um, and so I, I just kept talk- 'cause he, he started it.
• 51:26
  He built it over the last 14 years, um, and it was crazy, from, from nothing.
• 51:30
  Um- Right ... and so over the course of that call, it was supposed to be just a 30-minute, like, "Hey, can I pick your brain? I'm just- Right ... interested in entrepreneurship." Um, turned into like a three-hour call, and by the end of it he was like, it kind of started getting to like interview questions about just who I am and what, you know, qualifications and everything.
• 51:46
  And by the end of the call, he was like, "Hey, I want you to buy this business that I want to sell." He's, you know, he's looking to retire in five years.
• 51:54
  Um, and he's like, "I wanna sell this to my brother-in-law. He's worked with me for 10 years, and this is gonna be his setup for the rest of the future. Um, but he cannot afford to buy it on his own."
• 52:03
  Um, which... And I'm like, "Yeah, I understand. He, he needs to retire. He doesn't wanna s- you know, give away money." He also has investors.
• 52:11
  He was like, "I gotta pay off people." Mm-hmm.
• 52:13
  Um, so he wanted to, he needed to sell it for market rate.
• 52:16
  So he, um... But, uh, I mean, and market rate is generous.
• 52:22
  Like, he, he was selling it for definitely below what it was worth given the potential.
• 52:26
  Right.
• 52:26
  Um, and it's this busi- it was concrete form release is what it manufactures.
• 52:30
  It's an oil-based product.
• 52:32
  Um, anyone in- Interesting ... construction would know what that is, but no one else because it's such- Right ... a random material.
• 52:37
  Right.
• 52:37
  Um, anytime you're pouring concrete, you have to spray this stuff or else the concrete- Right
• 52:41
  will seal to whatever it's poured against.
• 52:44
  Um- Yeah ... so there's- Whatever it forms ... anytime, and it was pouring concrete, yeah, they, they spray that.
• 52:47
  So it's like, it's- Yeah ... like spraying or putting butter on your pan before you fry an egg.
• 52:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 52:52
  Um, without using Teflon and giving yourself cancer.
• 52:56
  So he, um, so he, he was like, "I want you to buy this bus- business."
• 53:00
  I go through due diligence, um, and it just works out.
• 53:03
  Like, it is- Yeah ... truly incredible.
• 53:04
  It's in American Fork.
• 53:05
  It's 15 minutes away from Provo.
• 53:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 53:07
  Um, I didn't wanna commute over an hour.
• 53:09
  I'd been, I'd done that.
• 53:10
  I'd commuted Provo to Salt Lake for five years working- Mm-hmm ... you know, at these different jobs before my MBA.
• 53:17
  Um, and I was like, "I can't do that." And it was flexibility, it was ownership, huge potential of growth.
• 53:23
  Just across the board I was like, "Wow," like, "God is so good." Truly, it was like I asked for bread, and He did not give me a stone.
• 53:30
  Um, it, it was miraculous.
• 53:32
  And so we found this, went through due diligence.
• 53:34
  I talked with all my friends, and that McKinsey guy, he was like, "You're an idiot if you- If you go
• 53:39
  work for McKinsey instead of, and- Yeah ... instead of doing this." 'Cause I, I was going through both channels at the same time.
• 53:43
  I was in like the second, third round of interviews with McKinsey.
• 53:47
  And, and you wouldn't- Mm ... have been able to keep your hair Yeah.
• 53:50
  I mean- Which part of that is interesting- ... very, very serious things we gotta consider here
• 53:55
  was like, my, my s- son was born, my first child was born.
• 53:58
  Yeah.
• 53:58
  And like I said, I was like, "I can't..." A- and again, where it was like things just kinda worked out, very blessed.
• 54:02
  Um, where I was like, I just, I don't know why, I was just like, "I'm just not gonna cut my hair." Um, and then I don't think I would've, to be quite honest, I don't know if I would've gotten into Oxford without the long hair.
• 54:12
  Um, 'cause I think it gave me that, that air of- That air ... you know, of, of whatever.
• 54:17
  Okay.
• 54:17
  Of that little je ne sais quoi, um- ... that they wanted.
• 54:21
  And so- Very good then.
• 54:23
  Um, so I mean, I'll probably cut it here in the next year, which is, uh, which is sad, but I wanted to have it at some point.
• 54:28
  Yeah.
• 54:28
  Anyway, so it worked out.
• 54:30
  And so that's, that's my business.
• 54:31
  I'm growing it.
• 54:32
  We're trying to, you know, grow it to be... It's, and again, incredibly, and this is not, I, I mean, this is gonna sound biased, but truly it, it's the best formula.
• 54:43
  Like, again, God blessed this, the guy's, the founder's name was Gary.
• 54:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 54:48
  There are, like, there are chemists full-time working at chemical companies who are trying to come up with good formulas for this concrete form release to work the best.
• 54:56
  And it's like, again, it, it'll be a whole spiel about, like, how concrete form release can work, entire sales pitch.
• 55:02
  But, like, there, there are PhDs who are, who are working on this all day, every day, you know, like chemical engineers, and they have not touched the, the, the performance of what Gary just... He was just like, "I'm just gonna try this."
• 55:15
  He, like, researched it for three weeks and then came up with the best formula in the entire industry.
• 55:19
  It's a trade secret.
• 55:21
  You don't patent it 'cause then it gives the secret away.
• 55:22
  Right.
• 55:23
  Um, it's, you know, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Chicken's 11 herbs and spices.
• 55:27
  Um, and so it's, it's crazy where it's like, and he created that, and so now I got to buy it, and it's like it is the easiest product to sell in the entire world.
• 55:34
  Mm-hmm.
• 55:34
  Um, you just have to, you know, convince the people it's like you are living beneath your privileges.
• 55:38
  And so- Right ... it, it worked out, and, and it's a great company.
• 55:41
  It's called Rock Canyon Lubricants.
• 55:42
  If you know anyone in construction or- Yeah ... precasting or distribution, yeah, let me know.
• 55:47
  For sure.
• 55:48
  Well, a- and again, I think the, the, the closing piece that I'll say on the, uh, the, the free portion of the podcast is a lot of people look
• 55:55
  And, and certainly that was a blessing, and it was from God- Mm ... but it came to you through a network that your father had curated for, for a long- Yes ... long time.
• 56:03
  It, it- Yeah ... came because, you know, so when, you know, I think for a lot of us, we, we, we wonder why does it matter?
• 56:09
  Why does it matter?
• 56:09
  Like, w- we'll be faced with challenges.
• 56:11
  We'll be faced with an opportunity in our lives to, you know, m- maybe not conduct ourselves quite as uprightly as we could, right?
• 56:20
  And, and- Mm ... people get very frustrated because, well, why, why does it matter, uh, if I, if I do the right, the, the absolute tip-top right thing and pay this serious price?
• 56:27
  I guarantee that your father- Mm
• 56:29
  paid prices over the years, and that's why his network- Yeah ... was what it was, and that's why you were trusted.
• 56:34
  Mm. Because, you know, and, and another thing, you know, I think- Yeah ... again, given where the country is- Mm ... there's a community element, right, of there, there- Yeah ... is so much real estate- Mm ... that is being bought by foreigners.
• 56:42
  There are so many businesses that are being bought by foreigners and, um, and, and just let, let's call them anti-American elements, right?
• 56:49
  There are people that- Yeah ... that, that they come in and, wow, this is a lot of money, my, my, my profit-maximizing endeavor.
• 56:56
  But if I sell to this person, that means this piece of my community is no longer going to be defended, no longer going to be loved, no longer going to be known, you know?
• 57:07
  There, there- Yeah ... there is something that we could recognizably call our people, and our people would somehow lose if this transaction is consummated.
• 57:14
  But- Yeah ... there's a lot of money, right?
• 57:16
  And you want the money.
• 57:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 57:17
  So, so what, what ... A- and I think one of the, the other thing is every time that somebody that's, that's, that's an American, um, takes one of those opportunities and, and runs it into the ground, then everyone's like, "Well, well, why should I sacrifice for this community that's just producing, you know, ne'er-do-wells and, and, and kids that don't care?"
• 57:35
  And so what makes someone trust?
• 57:37
  What creates these little moments of high trust?
• 57:39
  Well, it's, "Hey, this kid is the son of so-and-so," right?
• 57:42
  Mm-hmm.
• 57:43
  And that matters.
• 57:43
  Which- It matters a great deal.
• 57:46
  Last thing I would say for the, for the free portion is, like, one thing that I am so proud of as I've gotten older, every time I've talked with someone who knew my dad but, like, didn't yet know me, it has been a positive experience.
• 57:57
  Right.
• 57:58
  Every, every single time.
• 57:59
  They have said something complimentary, whereas, like, one time it was like I met this guy who was like, "Oh my gosh, I went golfing with your dad one time." Yeah.
• 58:05
  Um, and he had a, a golf caddy.
• 58:07
  He was like, "He was the most humble, humble man I've ever met, even though I knew that he was the most successful man on the golf course."
• 58:13
  He was like, he had a golf caddy who was disrespecting him.
• 58:16
  Like, I don't, I don't golf much, so I don't know what that looks like.
• 58:18
  But he was just like, it was a serious t- he was like, "I'd never seen..." Like, I was, you know, a resident of this country club, and he was like, "I'd never seen someone so disrespectful," like a caddy, whatever.
• 58:27
  And your dad handled it with grace and, you know, shook his hand at the end and said, "Hey, you know, thanks for, thanks for your help," um, and never said a word.
• 58:33
  Where it's like it wasn't- Mm ... necessarily a thing of like, oh, you've got to be alpha against this guy.
• 58:37
  He was just like, "It was an incredible display of just patience and kindness," which describes my dad.
• 58:42
  And so- Absolutely ... like every, every anecdote I've ever heard, um, of my dad has made me more proud to be his son.
• 58:49
  So, you know, if I can strive to do that for my son, then- Mm-hmm ... we'll be in good shape.
• 58:54
  Awesome.
• 58:55
  Awesome.
• 58:56
  All right, well, again, thanks everybody who, uh, for, who's listening on the, the free version of this podcast.
• 59:00
  If you go to greathouses.forum, you can, uh, you know, uh, pay the fee and, and get into the, uh, the, the full-blown thing.