Latest / Man in America Podcast / Sold at 6, Anneke Lucas Exposes the Billionaire P*dophile Network | SURVIVOR STORIES EP03

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Sold at 6, Anneke Lucas Exposes the Billionaire P*dophile Network | SURVIVOR STORIES EP03 · Man in America Podcast

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Houlhouse. So this is episode three of the Survivor Stories. If you've watched the previous conversations with Kathy O'Brien and JR Sweet in this series, you've probably seen how far and how deep this rabbit hole goes and how much it costs the people who choose to speak out. Each one of them came from a different world, a different family, a different corner of the system, but their stories overlapped in ways that are very hard to dismiss once you really listen.
• 0:48
  Tonight's guest adds another critical piece to that picture from another country, another network, and another level of so called respectable society. If you're new to this series and this is the first episode you're seeing, I just want to prepare you for what you're about to hear. This isn't entertainment. It's not a thriller script. It's the first hand testimony of a woman who was sold into sex trafficking as a young child used in blackmail operations for the political elites, and then was selected for trauma based mind control to serve the billionaire class.
• 1:22
  Some of what she describes involves children, torture, and ritualized evil, And it's disturbing, and it should be disturbing to you. My guest tonight is Anneke Lucas. As a little girl growing up in Belgium, she was sold by her own mother into a trafficking network run by top level politicians and nobility, a network that was connected directly into the same circles that are behind the infamous Bilderberg Meetings and what she calls the global elite. By age nine, she was being groomed as an elite sex slave entertainer, subjected to systematic mind control in Germany and then trafficked internationally, including here in The United States, for the benefit of a very, very powerful billionaire owner. If you've been following the release of the Epstein files and you're wondering how this all really works behind the scenes, how children from nowhere end up in the hands of men who run countries and corporations, how blackmail is built, how these systems stay hidden in plain sight, Anneke has lived inside those answers.
• 2:26
  She explains how children are used as gifts, as leverage, as currency, and how trauma, dissociation, and even psychic gifts are weaponized to control both the victims and the powerful people they're deployed against. I also wanna speak directly to a few different groups of people who might be watching. If you're someone who still isn't quite sure what to make of all this, if part of you is watching to find out whether you believe it or not or even look for reasons to not believe it, I understand. No sane person wants this to be real, and you're allowed to be skeptical. It's a good thing.
• 2:59
  All that I ask is that you just listen. Just notice the level of detail. See how it fits in with what we already know from the declassified programs like MK Ultra or from cases like Epstein, and that you let your own intuition, not the media, nothing else. Just let your own intuition tell you what rings true to you. And if you're a survivor of abuse, trafficking, mind control, or if you have fragments of memories or missing time or nightmares that you can't explain, just be careful with this episode.
• 3:30
  Anneke's story goes into torture, coerce perpetration, and the spiritual mechanics of how these systems break a child's conscience and sense of self. So it could trigger flashbacks or those deeply buried memories that you might have. So just take it seriously. Maybe you want to watch with someone that you trust. Just stop.
• 3:50
  If you feel yourself being pulled somewhere you're not ready to go. And if you're a parent or a grandparent, understand this. This episode is not for children, so please don't have little ones in the room while you're watching or listening. Now, as dark as this conversation gets, it's not where it ends. Anneke has spent almost forty years in deep healing and spiritual work.
• 4:09
  She's developed a method that she calls unconditional, which is helping people to understand power dynamics projection and how our own unresolved trauma makes us vulnerable to manipulation from above. She speaks very clearly about hope, about the reality of God, and about the way that personal healing can dismantle the larger pyramid of pain that our world currently runs on. For those of you who are familiar with Kathy O'Brien's work or who walked with us through JR Sweet's testimony, I think you'll recognize the same pattern again tonight. Unimaginable darkness, yes, but also a level of clarity, compassion, and spiritual strength that you don't get by accident. Survivors like Anneke embody a kind of hope that it can't be fake because they've had to claw their way to it through everything the enemy could throw at them since childhood.
• 4:57
  I'm also not asking you to just accept everything, you know, every claim at face value. I'm just asking you to be willing to look, to question, to feel, and to consider that what we've been told is normal or respectable in our societies rests on foundations that most people never see. But once you see those foundations, it changes how you understand politics, entertainment, religion, and even your own life. So this is heavy. It will weigh on you.
• 5:25
  It still weighs on me. But I believe, and I think that you do too, that the only way out of this is through truth, however painful that process might be. So if you're ready, take a deep breath, make sure you're in a safe mental place, and let's step into this together. This is my interview with Anneke Lucas. Anneke, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 5:54
  I'm really looking forward to this discussion with you. So thank you for being here.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Seth. Inviting me.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Absolutely. And I think it was, if I remember correctly, think it was Kathy O'Brien that helped us connect up. So a thank you as well to Kathy, who was my most recent guest on the Survivor Stories series that I'm doing. And so let's just, I guess, just start with you, and I'll let you tell as much or as little as your story as you want to, to kind of introduce your background. But from my understanding, you were someone that from a very young age was, you know, as a child was basically kind of sold into sex trafficking networks with very powerful people.
• 6:34
  But why don't you just walk us through whatever you'd like to about the origins of your story?
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: Okay. Sure. Yes. So, I was born in Belgium, and my mother was, you could say, mentally unwell. I was not born into a trafficking situation, but I was sold into it at age- just around my sixth birthday.
• 6:56
  And immediately it was extreme, extreme situations, in my case, in Kassel. So, it was in the Belgian elite at the time. The network was run by a man who was a politician, was Minister of National Defense at the time. He was also Prime Minister twice. And then, you know, it went up to the royals and many of the nobility, but also anyone who was basically climbing their way and through this secret club, which people came from secret societies, but they came through other venues as well.
• 7:42
  And then mostly what I experienced in the first years was the blackmail operation, the men that were supposedly new at being with a very young child. And then I had been taught to position them. I had been taught to make them feel comfortable about what they were about to do. And that mixed with whatever their predilections were already. And the fact that they probably had been tested quite a bit before they were put in that situation and that then with a lot of drugs and alcohol, then there was not a single man who ever, you know, did what they were set up for.
• 8:27
  And then at age nine, also through that same Belgian network of VIPs, as then they were connecting more powerful people internationally through what was the Bilderberg meeting at that time in 1972 in Belgium. And that's how I came in the hands of, you know, what I call the global elite. And then I was picked to be an elite sex slave and then put through mind control training and also trafficked to various countries. And then there was a plan for me to give me a platform so that I could better attract the more powerful men as a sex slave and then also be sold, of course, and also spy. And this was all at age nine.
• 9:18
  And then at age 10, I didn't obey 100% and was kicked out, you could say, and sort of thrown back to the Belgian network. And at age 10, my book begins there after I was already kicked out from the global elite. But, no, thank you. But then I was in Belgium. There was an interest from a young gangster who then protected me for a while.
• 9:52
  And then when he began to abuse me, that became extremely intense and ended up with what would have been my death, except for that he had a last minute change of heart, then negotiated for my release. And that's what happened at age 11.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And so, if I understand correctly, mother was not what you would call right in the head, especially emotionally. I heard you talk about how she had kind of the emotional, kind of faculties of a five year old. And she also she had abused you from, infancy, right? I mean, you have early memories of that, that before you were sold into a network, it was something that she was also involved with, is that correct?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So, she had me by herself. And so, 1963. So, this was unusual at the time. She was married to my stepfather.
• 10:55
  And yes, she was very sexualized, but like a child. And so, it was a little weird in that way. And then, yes, she was very eager, really, to sell me and then ended up being my pimp for all intents and purposes and taking money and also driving me to places. But it was almost as if she would have rather been the subject. You know, she was envious.
• 11:22
  She would have wanted to be that child that got that kind of attention from these men, if that makes sense.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Was she abused as a child, do you think?
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Well, everything indicates that she was, including some of the things that happened to me in that family because it was an incestuous family. She didn't seem to have a recollection of it. And- But she was certainly acting like that all the time.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: Because that's something that I've, you know, thought about sometimes and even discussed with some different guests is when you think of them, you know, I've got two children. Got two year old and a five year old, both little girls. And I couldn't imagine even pinching them and making them cry, right? It would I'd feel so like I was moving a desk in my garage the other day and bumped my two year old in the head with the desk. Felt so sad, right?
• 12:16
  She fell off her little bike she was riding, and she had a little bump on her head, and I felt horrible. And of course, it was an accident, and I've thought, Gosh, how could someone do this? But I'm someone that has, I would say, a normal, healthy, kind of inner being. I mean, was raised well, loving parents, and I've thought that it's so easy to look at these parents that do that to their children and kind of judge them. Of course, I think that they should be judged for the evil that they do, but for some of them, if they were also from infancy, abused, whether by a grandfather, a father, an uncle, you know, whatever, it's hard to comprehend what's going on in that person's mind when they have that just fractured history within them.
• 13:04
  Again, not to give any of them a hall pass, but it's different. I think it's very different than a normal person doing these things.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. In fact, I think that all the people that abused me, and that were very many, were repeating something from their own childhood. And I think, obviously, there can be exceptions to the rule, as always. And I think in this day and age, there's a new kind of pedophile that has emerged from just from porn and everything, I believe, you know, that it just takes you into that black hole and that sex addiction that will take you ultimately to child abuse materials. But in my childhood, the men that I came across, I always got to see a part that was in the moment of the abuse itself going back to- Of course, it's a moment of revenge, but it's a moment of the part that's been victimized and that, of course, was suppressed and often frozen.
• 14:13
  You know, you can't fight, you can't flee as a child. So, you're frozen in that moment. And so, all the negative reactions have to be frozen as well. And that in that moment there is a release for that person from everything that is not healed. So, the revenge, the anger and everything and all the things that have not been able to, even if they're supposedly loving, it's still repetition from a place of anger.
• 14:47
  Of course, you don't touch a child unless you are actually coming from a place of anger, but you could pretend and couch it like it's all nice and everything to justify it to yourself. But you always, all these people have to believe that in that moment that they commit this crime, that they are in that moment feeling that they're the victim, however they justify it. And then they put themselves in that victim position so that in that moment there is no accountability and they have no responsibility for anything because they are that little child and actually see in the child victim their perpetrators. And they start to project those things onto the child so they don't see the child in the child. Otherwise, you would never do it.
• 15:32
  Like you said, you know, it's a two year old falling off her bike and you feel so bad that, you know, you did it. You absolutely don't want to do it. And they're so cute. You know, you never want to touch them. But people that don't heal and, of course, a lot of survivors don't heal and never touch a child, also, just to be clear.
• 15:53
  But those that do go on to perpetrate, they get themselves into that mind space where they can get their, you know, get the most raw release from the abuse that they themselves have suffered.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Which is kind of the idea that the sins of the father, right? Or the also that it's very common that if a father is an alcoholic, the the, say, older son that was the that bore the brunt of that abuse from the alcoholism very often becomes an alcoholic themselves. Right? That these things repeat. And we also know that a lot of these, these bloodlines, that it's it's multigenerational abuse.
• 16:36
  And so you could see how it would create a cycle that would just keep repeating generation after generation, which I think is what we see happening. Now, one question I wanna ask you about something you had said that I think it was around the age of nine or so that so you were you aware that you were being used as a blackmail operation? Right? Were you kind of set up? Were you told what to do?
• 17:02
  Did you know that there were certain cameras in the room? And were you aware that your job was basically to compromise this person?
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't go that far, but I was aware where the camera was because I had to position them.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I knew that they were being filmed and that they shouldn't know it. But the truth is, I didn't even recognize anyone in my childhood. I didn't know who anyone was. I knew that these were powerful people. I didn't really know.
• 17:31
  I mean, I had heard that the leader, let's say, of the Belgian network was a politician, but it's not like I would have known anyone. So, yeah, no, I think children's ability to know exactly was very limited. But I found out later.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: And so, was this- because I know that there's a variety of different kind of stories that we talked to, you know, victims of this kind of abuse. And some are they were just trafficked, used for sexual purposes, you know, blackmail. Others were put through, you know, what you know, here within, like, the CIA program, it's MK Ultra, but it's I know that in different areas, like, you know, Germany, I think you also had some experience with Germany, there's kind of similar programming there, that there's also this more systematic it's not just about blackmailing and, you know, kind of the selling of a child for for money, which is very common, obviously, in the child sex trafficking industry. But there's this other part of it, is the intentional fracturing, the intentional, torture and abuse, and being able to then take that pro that child and use them as a tool to be reprogrammed with, say, you know, there's, like, the sex kitten kind of persona. There's the the spy, you know, passing you know, even getting into passing messages to, you know, elites or even assassins.
• 18:59
  Right? And so were you more limited to just the kind of blackmail operations, or were you also pulled into some of the more systematic kind of trauma based, mind control programming as well?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Well, in Belgium, was sort of a rudimentary mind control training happening in barns and whatever. But it was already happening, and it already involved awful things. And I was also already given to extreme sadists. So, the degree of evil, let's say, would be similar, although I wasn't exposed to anything religious at that time. But once I got into, you know, the sort of global cult, I guess, it was all so professional.
• 19:53
  So, I was basically- While I thought I had found a sort of a father and was getting attention from a fatherly figure, I was actually being triaged just to see what I would be good at. Meanwhile, they clearly found out about my bloodline, which I myself had no idea because I didn't know my father. I didn't know my biological father. So, they knew. And then based on my blood especially and my father's blood especially, there was a persona that was going to be created.
• 20:33
  And for that, I was sent to mind control training in Germany. And that definitely includes everything that you just mentioned. So, I was there for a whole month. And that training is basically torture to create dissociation and then to create different parts indeed. And I was being molded into a specific persona.
• 21:02
  And even as I was going through this torture program, I was noticing myself change.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And what age were you at that point when you went to that program? Nine. Nine. And what was that month like? I mean, kind of facility was it?
• 21:25
  What did a day look like? Just see, if there's anything that you'd read, if you'd say, Oh, I don't want go there, that's fine. I don't want to push you into places you don't want to talk about. But I'll ask, though, and you can tell me if you want to answer.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: Okay. Well, Heidelberg is the town where I was taken. And it was a villa, really a beautiful villa from the outside that was close to the castle, the ruins of the castle in Heidelberg. I was also taken to that castle for something else. But the month that I spent there, the month of August 1972, so there were about three handlers that were taking care of me.
• 22:09
  Most of the things that I went through happened in the basement. I had a little room when I was tied to the bed at night or, you know, I wasn't really tied with ropes, but with irons. So, I was chained up at night on the bed when I did get to sleep in a little room that wasn't in the basement. But a lot of the training happened in the basement. There were three young handlers, young men in their early 20s, that were doing most of the training.
• 22:44
  And sometimes the doctor who was in charge was coming to do, you know, specific things. All the basic training of mind control was there. That's, you know, alpha, beta, delta, theta trainings were there. So, the alpha training would be the rudimentary mind control training, but it is, you know, splitting off and using well. So one thing I sometimes mention is because I was going to be an elite sex slave, a spy, I was forced to watch movies.
• 23:23
  So, I got these things put on my eyes. I mean, I was completely paralyzed through irons and everything, so I couldn't move my head. And then I had these things opening my- keeping my eyes open to watch films. So, you would see on the screen the face of a man and then you would see that man engage in some really horrific sexual acts. And then another and another and another, different sexual acts, different faces, different men engaging in these acts- in various horrific sexual acts.
• 24:03
  And then I would be shown a face and I would be told that I would have to guess what that man's sexual predilection was. And if I guessed wrong, then that's what the doctor was there for, to either strangle me or drown me. And then in the time that I would be unconscious from the strangling or the drowning, and in that unconsciousness, I would actually have parts that would leave the body. And so, even though it was punishment for not guessing the right answer, it was also part of the training to become more intuitive. And so, I did notice that after a while, I could tell what men, just from looking at their face, what men liked sexually.
• 24:56
  That was one part of the training, for example, as a sex lawyer.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Interesting. So, because I know that if you look at, I'm someone that believes that the human body, has abilities far beyond what we kind of, our normal five senses. I think that, I think it's been intentionally engineered in our society to think that we're not these very, very divinely created, you know, beings with a soul that has these abilities beyond just the flesh. But I'd also, I know that even if you read stories of say, for instance, the mother that say a car kind of is on their child, and a mother can lift up a car, right? So you know, superhuman things come out within these situations that become life or death where your adrenaline and everything is just, is so strong.
• 25:46
  And so, is that part of why they're, is that part of the training that, because when I hear you say that, it's like, Oh, so maybe they're, with that training of watching the videos and those faces, that they're training you to develop this almost a super sensory ability to not look at a person and just read their face and everything, but actually to sense, to develop some sort of sixth sense about someone that when you see them, it's like you know where the levers are to control them, right, through their desires. Right?
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And yes, so they create- The trauma is a fear of death. So, they create a life and death situation so that you indeed go into these states in the fight, flight, freeze mode when your instinctual self is present, your animal self is now present, and it's a basic survival mode, then you do develop these, indeed, these special gifts. Of course, in the network, these are all used for occult purposes.
• 26:48
  And while the network will poo poo any kind of psychic gifts usually that are used for good, they themselves heavily rely on the occult. And so much of the training is about that because that's the sex slave training, but there is the theta training specifically to open the psyche and to create psychic parts so that indeed it's always to bypass. See, a mind control slave has to not know what they're doing. They have to do it automatically. So, I was deployed in that following year.
• 27:25
  When I was with a man, I was taken to Germany to spend time with a former chancellor. And while I was with him, had to be completely believing in the moment that I was in love with him, that he was the best man on Earth. I had to see- I saw the best in him. And that made him feel super happy, especially, you know, he was also a pedophile. But I had to be able to connect with him from that part in me that does that and nothing else.
• 27:57
  Because if there were anything else present there, he would also feel that and then it wouldn't work. But then I would be meeting my owner, who was the billionaire that had sort of taken charge of all of this, and then I would report. I would report on the man's weaknesses. I would report on whatever needed to be told. And I think that was just the beginning.
• 28:22
  Now I was nine years old. That was the beginning. You know, that would have gone much farther. I was already deployed with powerful men and powerful pedophiles, but that was meant to go on. I was supposed to continue to do that in more complex ways.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And some of these abilities that you tapped into during that process, are they still with you? Like, you go to a restaurant, do you say you're going to go to the restaurant to have a meal and you see that there's the manager at the booth taking your name down? In situations as common as that, do you get senses of these things? Do you have an ability to kind of pick up on people and who they really are?
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Well, when I lived in New York City and I moved out of the city, But when I was taking the subway, for example, it would be a little difficult sometimes because, you know, everybody's there and you just see too much on people's faces. And I don't know if that's my special ability or if you just get, you know- just sometimes you just know. And I never focus on it, so it doesn't actually happen that much.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: I see. I guess it's like most things. If you stop exercising a certain muscle, it naturally will atrophy and weaken if it's not being used. That makes sense. And so you mentioned that you were at, Germany.
• 29:50
  And this is this the castle, right? This is the Heidelberg Castle?
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Is it now? It's part of it, probably, because it's partly in ruins. It's from the thirteenth century. Yeah. Heidelberg Castle.
• 30:02
  Yes.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: It says it's midway up the Konigstuhl Mountain. I probably mispronounced that. Yeah.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: So, the house where I was actually programmed is very close by it, but you see how hilly it is. So, in fact, I couldn't even- even though I was physically there, I couldn't reach- you can't really get to the house at all. But I could see it. I saw it. And what I don't see in this picture is the tower, the Herbal Tower or something it's called, which is a ruin of a tower that's where I was taken.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let me see. Maybe I can- You say it's called the Herbal Tower?
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Erbil Tower, I believe. Yeah. The Erbil Tower.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, here it is. Yeah. Okay. I think this is Is that
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: It's a thirteenth Yeah. It's a thirteenth century. There you go. It's There you go. It's a thirteenth century castle, really.
• 31:02
  And then, of course, with other things built later on. But this Herb Tower is close to the public. But I was taken there for
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: yeah. And so, you said that you were there for about a month. And was it easy because that was just, it was a short training or what stopped that? What caused you to leave after that?
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I had the basic training there. And the first month, the month of July, I spent in The United States with this person who was my owner. And so, he was done doing the triage, and he was already training me to be comfortable in that world and everything. I was in his houses. You know, I was in several of his houses.
• 31:50
  And I was also parked in a family for a week near DC. I was in New York. I was in Maine. I was in Westchester. And so, basically spending quite a bit of time with him, but also a lot of time, like, for example, just in his bedroom, for example, all day while he was doing, you know, in meetings and so forth because he had a big public role.
• 32:16
  And so, that was the month of July. And then the month of August was the training. And then I went back to Belgium to my family, and then I went back to school.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Just back to grade school, like a regular kid?
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: The fourth grade. Yeah.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: My goodness. And so one thing that I'd love to get your perspective on is that when you start looking into this type of information, right, you know, look at SRA victims, victims of this kind of abuse, it seems like it almost always starts to involve these more elite bloodlines, powerful politicians, things like, you know, Bilderberg meetings, know, Bohemian Grove, these very elite gatherings that are closed off from the public. And when you also then take that and you pair it with the what you mentioned already, the blackmail operation, right, whereas now, obviously, everyone this year has been talking about Epstein and what's been come out in the Epstein files. And I think Epstein is just a tiny node in a much larger network of these kinds of people. But when you start getting to that level of society of the the billionaire class, the politician like, the high level politician class, how how prevalent is this?
• 33:35
  Because it seems, again, from my own research and everything, that the higher up you go, the more common it becomes and almost as if it becomes part of how the system works at those very, very high, more secretive levels of our entire society. But what's your what's your kind of perception of that?
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. I think that's true, that it's normalized, that child abuse is just actually normalized in those circles. A lot of it is normalized. And so, amongst them, it's normal. You can also see that in the higher echelons of the art world, for example, that child abuse is clearly normalized and, you know, the satanic is also being normalized.
• 34:22
  But the network has branches everywhere. And so, how it is used is that people from the small towns and then, you know, Belgium being a small country, a smaller network, tries to branch up through the children. So, the children are the leverage. So, I was given as a gift to this billionaire. And then that was how the Belgians then got to do business with this billionaire.
• 34:53
  So, this is how the children are used. And yes, indeed, once you are in the higher echelons of the society on the whole, I felt that it's true. The higher you go, the more normalized child abuse is. And, of course, we know that in Hollywood, for example, it's all about- usually it's always about being- You know, people are dissociated, so they don't even realize what's going on. But then if they wake up to it, it's about being quiet, being silent about it.
• 35:27
  And that's what you get. So, it's not that everybody participates. It's just that everybody's silent about it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: And it is also correct to say that a lot of the people that rise up to extreme levels of fame. You know, a list actors, musicians, powerful politicians. But even let's look at, say, Hollywood as an example, say Hollywood, the music industry, what you see is that for one, there's a very kind of strange, it's too common to be a coincidence, number of people that get into their late 20s and early 30s, and they end up dying. They have drug overdoses, they have you look at what, you know, Britney Spears, what she's been going through, what she's you can see something that's kind of broken in her. And so, also, think that some of my other guests have talked about this, that, you know, these are people that they were alongside in these MK Ultra programming systems, that they were alongside the children of these elite families, the people that end up becoming the the, you know, a list actors worth a $100,000,000.
• 36:31
  And so do you think that part of what's happening is that as they get to a certain point in some of these memories that may have been hidden or kind of tucked away, they start emerging. And this person who I mean, I can imagine if you're, say, an A list actor and you have all this success, yet you have all these memories that are still there. If they start coming out, it's no wonder a lot of them end up being heavy drug users, alcoholics. They really struggle. Is that do you see a correlation between all that?
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, for sure. Well, I was supposed to be a star in France. So, I was supposed to be a singer actress in France. And so, I was being trained at age nine to be a singer. And I was trained even in a setting where I had an entourage.
• 37:19
  And this was in the basement of a French castle where I spent, I think it was the Christmas holiday of 1972. So, two weeks. And I had an entourage, but I was naked. And I was getting singing classes, everything naked. They were dressed adults, but they were- because of the role that I was going to get, I was being treated as a star.
• 37:51
  And the nakedness was, well, I had to understand that my body was not mine, that my body was going to be an object of worship. And, of course, I was going to be naked on the screen a whole ton. So, I had these people that were sort of worshiping around me. They were doing facials and hair and everything just to help me get used to being a star. I wasn't getting acting.
• 38:15
  I was getting singing lessons because I was being prepared for my first performance, which I had inside the network. So, I was prepped at age nine. When you look at a lot of actresses, for example, they were already doing something when they were that age. They were already mind control slaves when they were that young. And so, the only reason that I was getting this platform, though, is that I would then be able, obviously, to attract more powerful men.
• 38:51
  And then also, if I was going to be sold as a star, then, of course, I would be making them so much more money. So, the sex trafficking is always still part of it as well. And I don't know if those people who commit suicide- First of all, if they commit suicide, or if they're killed, or if they remember things or if they just don't want to go along anymore. Because, see, this happened to me, thankfully, at age 10. And I was reprogrammed in the worst way.
• 39:27
  Speak of torture. Most of my adult life I was under the weight of that reprogramming that I got after I disobeyed. So, in a way, was lucky that I disobeyed before I was public because obviously it would have been a lot more complicated had I already been presented to the large public. So, yeah, I think whether it's memories coming back or whether it's not wanting to go along anymore, because when you're a creative person and they need your creativity, generally, those people are not the same as the political psychopaths or the people that control them that are completely psychopathic. There's still an artist in you.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: So You've got leverage, right?
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: You have to follow. You get completely programmed so that you will only be a mouthpiece for their agenda. And I was definitely, and I know this, I was being prepared to promote the pedophile agenda by being a sexualized child first. That was my performance. Everything was sexualized about the performance.
• 40:49
  Double entendre everywhere. Wink, wink. And then as woman, of course, the same thing. You present as a sexy French blah, blah, blah. And then the idea is to also invite everybody into this idea that it's really okay for that woman to be sexual with boys.
• 41:11
  And as a child, it's really okay for men to be desiring me. You know, that's an agenda. But whatever I was going to say as adult actress or singer, it would have definitely been on point as far as their agenda. And if you start to want to say some things of your own, I see that sometimes. I see it happening.
• 41:34
  I see somebody saying something and then the other person immediately controlling them. Like, I can't say that.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. And so, you mentioned, I think it was around age 10, that you rebelled, right? You kind of disobeyed, and then they had to reprogram you. So, two parts to this. What did you do to rebel, and what did the reprogramming look like?
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Yes. Well, what I did to rebel was very small when you think of a natural way of being because it's tyrannical. So, it's 100%. You have to go along with everything. And so, happened is that I was kidnapped and abused and humiliated by an adult singer and her husband, director husband, and they kind of broke my program.
• 42:37
  They weren't supposed to do that. Something had happened.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: How'd they break your program?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I wasn't supposed to be humiliated. When I was being abused, first of all, I was only supposed to be abused, you know, have sex with men. And they were supposedly lucky to be with me. So, that's what I had- You know, so I thought I was now having sex with men. I didn't believe anymore.
• 43:07
  Like before, when I was a little girl in Belgium, I definitely, you know, knew that I was being abused and I didn't want it. But now I thought I wanted it after the mind control training. And I wasn't supposed to be humiliated and I wasn't supposed to be abused by women. And this woman was vicious because I had accidentally stepped on her toes. And she probably thought that I did it on purpose.
• 43:34
  And so, this was her revenge, and I wasn't supposed to be going through that. So, it kind of broke my program because it made me think, well, if I can't even prevent- If this is going to happen, then I don't think so. So, then what happened then is that for the role that I was going to have internally, I needed to be an active perpetrator because coerced perpetration is everywhere in the network. Children, one of the first things, are made to do harm. So, coerced perpetration is everywhere.
• 44:14
  But as an active, as somebody who's going to be a mouthpiece for the network, you have to be an active perpetrator, not coerced. That's what I was tested on. Because after that, I was coerced. I was not willing anymore. And that's what they found out.
• 44:33
  And then I was and then I was reprogrammed.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: I see. So, basically, active versus programmed, they want you to be an aggressor of your own will. They want you to be the one that if they're watching you through a camera or something that without being told you're the aggressor. But that
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: No, not so much that. It's that I would have to- If there's a ritual, then I would really want to participate and want to do this. And then whatever violence I'm asked to do, that I would willingly do it. And then I would also become potentially a sexual perpetrator. They don't care, you know, but that's the idea that you just indulge as much as you like.
• 45:21
  That's what I mean. It's not that you're You're just not a random perpetrator. You're a perpetrator for them. You have to want the power so bad, but you have to so much want to run from your stuff, from yourself, that you're going to do anything. And anything means do harm.
• 45:46
  And if you are forced to do that, you will do it because you know what's going to happen if you don't. And it's not only that it's going to happen to you. In my case, was like what's going to happen to the victim if you don't. So, you do it, but you don't want to do it. And that's the difference.
• 46:04
  They tested me on just seeing how much I really wanted it. And the truth was I didn't want it at all anymore.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: I see. And so, how did they reprogram you? What did that look like?
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: That's quite extreme. I was basically Well, first, I was drugged and thrown in a cage. This was in Germany and Berlin. I actually found out the building. It was the former Kaiser Wilhelm Institute Society that is now part of the Free University of Berlin.
• 46:40
  I was there, ostensibly, I was there. I was receiving shots in my eyes to change the color. I had to have very light colored eyes, very light blue eyes. And because of my mother's Scandinavian blood, they knew that they would turn blue. And I'd received shots already.
• 46:59
  And so, there are some parts of my eyes that are blue, but it wasn't complete yet. So, I was there to receive these shots in my eyes. And that's where the last test happened that I failed. And then I was put into a cage. I was drugged.
• 47:15
  I was naked in a cage that was hanging up in a basement. And from there, was taken to a dungeon and I was chained on the wall. And that reprogramming involved the doctor that had been programming me, coming to reprogram me. And basically, and also my owner, if we could quote owner, that American billionaire was also there yelling that basically I did not deserve to live, that I didn't deserve anything good. And that was the main message.
• 47:55
  But I was there for days. And then I was made to feel. So, before I was made to do harm and made to kill as part of the basic program for any mind control slave. And at first, in the beginning of this torture of the three days that I was there, long I was there, it seemed like days. In the beginning, it felt like, well, I know that I've only done this for you.
• 48:24
  So, I know that, you know, you can't make me feel like I'm bad and evil now because I do this when before I was being praised for it and I was just doing it for you anyway. But then, Well, it's very gross and graphic. What did it is I was there was a bucket of blood. And with human remains that was thrown over my head. And I was told that these were the remains of my victims.
• 49:11
  And then I was left alone for a very, very long time with the rotting meat. And then I then it the message, you know, sort of then entered that I felt that I'm not deserving of anything good because I'm so bad and I'm so evil.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Gosh. It's it's so hard just to comprehend this. I mean, mean, especially thinking about it's one say you're if you're a prisoner of war and you're 30 years old, and that happens as part of war, it's like, you can maybe classify that as something that might make a little bit of sense, but you're what, 10, 11 years old at this time. And yeah. So, as part of so they made you kill other people, right, as part of this training, as part of this programming?
• 50:12
  I'm assuming other children and
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Yes. In the first years, I was always at risk of being killed because I was a throwaway child because my parents are not, you know, my mother, you know, we didn't know my father. But the Belgians didn't care who my father was. It was only when that American billionaire, when I was nine years old, took an interest that they went and found out who my father was, and then found out that there's a bloodline, a little one, whatever, but it was good enough. But in the first years, was, you know, through my mother who just was eager to sell me, and I could have been killed at any time.
• 50:52
  And then one of the doctors of the network would have, you know, come up with a death certificate and a story, and it would have been in the whatever, you know, it would have been covered well enough. And then when you're part of it, so then, okay, you are a bloodline. So, now you're part of it. That's the first threshold. So, now you are part of it.
• 51:13
  And so then, you know, the main thing is that none of these children are ever treated as children. I think that's very hard to understand for anyone who has a heart, that the mind control slaves, because it's like at the end who isn't a slave in that system, they're all dissociated, but mostly they're completely cut off from their own heart and feelings. And so, they just pass on, you know, blindly. And two, three year olds are trained in this way and treated hard. And, you know, it's all about complete obedience.
• 52:05
  And so, I failed that. And then I was being trained in this way and not killed because I could be useful in some other way, potentially, which then didn't happen because a year later I ended up being rescued.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: And so do you think that I'm trying to understand the, like, the mechanisms and maybe some of the, I guess, the principles that they follow. But do you think a big part of this is that, they want you to believe that you are evil, right? That they want you to actually believe that you're Yes, it's like
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: bad this. Of
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: your own
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: bad. It's like this. When you're forced to kill and different children get different types of training, depending on your own innate disposition. So, for me, what was used is if I don't do it, then I'm going to be witness to horrendous torture of this intended victim so that I will regret not doing it because now it's all my fault, whatever happens next. So, I have to do it quicker, more merciful.
• 53:28
  That was how I was trained. And by doing that, either- Because children, even though we are all innocent, there are still children that have a connection to spirit and other children that don't really, that are just going to completely fall into this. And that's, of course, the perpetrators. So, as a child, if you have a heart and you're made to kill- So, I have spent thirty nine years in therapy. Okay.
• 54:10
  And the largest part of that was about this healing from the fact that I've taken lives. Because when you take a life, you don't really want to be alive. When you have a heart and you take a life, you don't really want to be alive anymore. You want that person to live instead of you. You don't really want to live anymore.
• 54:34
  So, this is the breaking point. Either you become a perpetrator and you follow and you become an aggressor and you follow into this aggressive pattern, which is sort of the power paradigm that we live in, or you feel so bad and guilty that you could never function.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I see. I've also heard stories that, you know, that they might take two children and basically say, Okay, if you don't kill one of them, we'll kill both of them. So, do these things where even if you have a conscience, that it's they don't really give you a way out of feeling guilt for some level of whether it's the death of one or the death of both, or whether it's the immediate death of one or witnessing the slow death of one.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. There's all different ways that they make children, you know, obey. But it goes to that still, that the first time it's always going to be very, very difficult, even for a two or a three year old. They don't want to do that. But ultimately, it's about sort of that's where people leave, you know, that's where children also leave.
• 55:57
  And then because there's a power high. Because in the network you're being tortured, and so you're frustrated in every possible way. And so your fight instinct that would normally go to the perpetrators is completely suppressed. And then you're being given one channel to have that release. And so, violence is just as much of an addiction as power.
• 56:35
  Power addiction includes violence addiction, and it includes sex addiction.
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Sex and violence oftentimes are intertwined.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: They may be intertwined because the fear element, you know, like a psychopath is running from their fear so much that they don't feel it at all anymore. But, in fact, everything comes from their fear. And so, when you mix fear and sex and so forth, then it creates that addictive cycle. Sex often becomes like the escape in the midst of the very thing that is at the root of the abuse itself, you know, that sex addicts find. They go back to the sexual act because in the sex act, when they were the children, they were being victimized and they were being suppressed and oppressed.
• 57:33
  And then they go back in the role of power and they feel the release and the supposed freedom that power gives you. And then, you know, when you get into the elite class, it's all about getting away with it, which we can sort of see now with the Epstein files. It's about, oh, well, we know it now, but they're still getting away with it. And then that's the- it's not only to do it, but it's also just to get away with it. That's the freedom then.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's- especially this recent release and the recent publicity surrounding the Epstein files, my concern was that it was actually exactly what we've talked about, that what it was was a process of putting it out there, but actually having no consequence, right? It's like it's one thing to be evil behind hidden doors, and people will do that, and they'll gain a lot of power through that. But I think the ultimate power is when you don't have to hide your evil anymore. When you have a society that's so distracted and so fearful and so dumbed down that you can show them this information, and they'll look at it, and they'll go back to the Super Bowl, or
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: That I don't know. I don't think it's like that. I think rather that the purpose has also been to create hopelessness and helplessness in the society. So that, see, we are the authorities. We're gonna do what we want anyway, no matter what you think or feel, because people do.
• 59:14
  I always thought this is going to make the difference once people realize that the people that we're voting for are, in fact, pedophiles, are, in fact, these criminals. You know, it goes way beyond corruption, you know, because the corruption is just a symptom really of this, of the satanism really that's behind it. So, I thought once people realize it, then it'll change. And I think it will, though. I do believe that it will because the consciousness is now there.
• 59:47
  But there's different stages of it. You know?
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: And so when you we we throw in satanism, as you start getting deeper into these control networks, obviously, you could look at it from a purely atheistic view and say that blackmail networks and these taboo things like pedophilia are very effective tools for control manipulating, whether it's, you know, controlling how wars are being fought to controlling what companies are doing what, etcetera. That's one thing. But if you start to look at it from a spiritual perspective, and look at satanism satanism as a spiritual thing, it's a it's a not it's a nonmaterial thing. It's a belief in something outside just the physical body, whether it's good or evil. And so would you say how does satanism cross over into these networks at a very high level?
• 1:00:47
  Because it's easy to mock somebody and say, Oh, yeah, you think the world's being run by satanic pedophiles. Right? So it's kind the new You think the chemtrails and the, you know, the the all these things. It's easy to mock that perspective, but is that as you get high up into it, how integrated is satanism into these power structures?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, it is spiritual. It is a belief, for sure. But in a way, it is still the extension of the blackmail outs. Because it's still about having power, gaining more power and engaging in things that give you more power.
• 1:01:34
  So, it's ultimately still in the same realms, except that it's a bit hokey because, you know, you would hope that, you know, when- And I work with other survivors- You would hope that sometimes it would get a little bit more creative. But now it's always like survivors going like, I wish it was, No, it's black robes. No, it's this sign, this sign. And you know, you don't want it to be that hokey. Yeah, it really is.
• 1:02:05
  But ultimately, the belief- I see everything through the psychological lens because I've spent forty years healing from this. And so, I've had to go so deep inside myself that, you know, yes, I understand it. They don't understand it, but I do because I've been through it and then I've healed from it. I So, have the consciousness that they miss. I have the love aspect that they miss.
• 1:02:29
  And I see satanism as a huge justification to indulge in their power addiction. And so the belief system itself, in the end, it just comes down to that, that it's about allowing them to give themselves over. Now, you do- I mean, I have observed things that are very unusual. Let's say, when someone consciously gives their body over to a demon and, you know, they do transform and you do feel that very dark energy entering and you feel that, you know, that person's not human anymore. You do feel you see it.
• 1:03:21
  I mean, you see the physical contortion of the face and everything and you see horrific things. I haven't seen anything more than that, you know. But, yeah, there's dark forces, of course. And that's also part of the whole occult, you know, opening the psyche and then connecting to darker entities, darker vibrations that are all concerned with power. And to a certain degree, I see that this little child that was abused and that is too afraid to ever see the abuser as anything but good.
• 1:04:08
  So, then they have to stay in that paradigm where the abuser was right. They don't deserve love. Then they feel they don't deserve love, but they actually don't even believe that real love exists. And then when you're not in contact with your innate spirit self that gives you everything. Everything comes from there.
• 1:04:33
  So, when you're not in contact with that spiritual self, then you don't even believe that you have it or that it even exists in other people either. And that's where that belief comes from. And I think a lot of people have great intellect to cover over their lack of emotional intelligence. They understand psychology amazingly well. And they understand the psychology of torture and splitting and dissociation.
• 1:05:02
  Meanwhile, they have the false memory syndrome movement on the other side in the mainstream to try to even create doubt about dissociation. But they're expert at dissociating and about what happens. They don't know anything about healing. They don't know anything about real love. They don't know anything about true spirit.
• 1:05:26
  So, they believe they're fighting Christ a lot, you know, mocking, always having to mock that which is real and which is their own essential core, they're they're not in touch with it. So, they're sort of banned from themselves and relegated in a way to this darkness and trying to make things, you know, and then if you have no self esteem, well, then power comes and tells you you have esteem. But then you have to also prove it, you know, when you're in the world and you have power, you then have to prove that you're somebody, whereas somebody with just actual self esteem doesn't have anything to prove and doesn't need the power to give them that platform.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. That makes sense. And I'm curious I've spent a good part of my adult life trying to understand the power structures of the world, whether it's, you know, communism, secret societies, global, you know, new world order type plans. And you can get a lot actually, there's lot of really good books and and researchers that have put together volumes of information that will help with this. But I've also found that it's actually the interviews I've either watched or conducted my myself with people like yourself that have been inside that system, that that's more revealing than almost any book you can go read written by some sort of expert who's researched these things.
• 1:07:12
  And so when you're when you look at just society as a whole, and, you know, because I think that a lot of the, you know, the world's a stage, I think that so much of what we believe to be real is, you know, that we're it's the allegory of the cave. These are shadows that are projected that are being controlled by people that want to make us believe that we came, you know, we evolved from monkeys that, you know, all the different things that they've convinced us to make sure that the large population of people remains very just dumb and limited and has no access to the spiritual strength that's in all of us. And you can see, so when you're looking at just watching society and you're seeing whether it's people arguing about politics and how my politician's gonna fix everything and you're wrong, or you're watching the Hollywood trends, what's happening at the Grammys, or any of these things that you're watching. Do you almost feel like in a sense that you're just this kind of quiet observer, just kind of watching, and and you see through so much of it, and that you're just it's almost like you're at I'm not gonna say a zoo because it kind of really kind of puts people down.
• 1:08:24
  Almost like you're just kind of watching through a glass and seeing this play being orchestrated and controlled. I mean, is that- what's it like for you as you watch the trends happening in society, but knowing what you do about the inner workings of these power systems?
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I do teach, I do teach. So, I work with survivors, but I also have developed a model, the unconditional model, which really looks at the power system from the outside. But most importantly, I think, goes in how do we get out of this paradigm? And that, I say, is everybody has personal healing to do. And the personal healing, not only in the psychological, but the psychological spiritual sense, is ultimately about becoming empowered from within.
• 1:09:15
  And I use power dynamics, the way in which we give our power to others, which then become stand in authority figures, which are then stand in figures for our original authority figures, which is what these people that are being presented to us on the world stage are presented as these authority figures. But that's parents. They're parents and we're then children in relation to them. Or the ways in which we take power and then project down on others. That's, of course, the division is you have power.
• 1:09:53
  You could judge somebody else for a whole group, a whole faceless group, you know, preferably. You know, you don't even know. You're not even talking to a person. But, you know, and how the whole pyramid of the power structure really is trauma based so that the people who are with the most privilege and the most power are really just very successfully running from their own trauma and then dumping that on everybody under them, which is all of us. But then it goes all the way down to the lowest classes where the most pain is actually lived out and felt and experienced.
• 1:10:39
  So, it's like pyramid of pain, I call it, and that's the outside. So, with awareness of the outside structure and then becoming empowered from within, going through this lens of our own projections of power, that we can then find that balance within. And then, you know, when you heal from your personal trauma, that's what fits you into the paradigm in one way or another. You get plugged in somewhere based on your personal trauma. I was taught as a spy to find the weak spot of someone.
• 1:11:23
  The weak spot is someone's blind spot that is based on their trauma. That's to say the space in which they, as children, were never loved, accepted, seen for who they truly are. I was trained to find that and then to pretend to love that person in that one place where they felt unseen so that they would fall in love with me. But that is what is happening to everybody, that your unresolved trauma is being- your blind spots are being used for the network to access you with their programs. And that's what keeps you in the vision.
• 1:12:04
  It's what keeps you in some way not looking at what we need to really be focusing on. And so, healing modality, the unconditional model is, you know, and I've been teaching it for years, and I work with a lot of providers, of course, but also a lot of survivors. A lot of survivors are providers also. And there's a lot of survivors of this extreme abuse that have awakened. And I think, in general, the attempts to keep people dumb are just really not working.
• 1:12:38
  And what I'm also noticing is a lot of you know, screeching nails on the blackboard, just trying to hold on to that power when, in fact, people are becoming brighter and brighter. And I feel that the turbulence that we're experiencing is the shifting of that old paradigm going towards something different.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: I'm glad that you mentioned that because I wanted you kind of answered the question I was leading up to in some of these other questions, which is good, is that more so that do you see that there is this awakening happening? Because if, you know, you've been healing from, and I think, you know, also speaking out against these things for quite some time. And I'm sure that, you know, say twenty years ago, that this probably was a very, very small, kind of quiet part of society. And this is even though with the Epstein files, even though a lot of people kind of saw it and turned away, a lot of people didn't. I think for a lot of people, it broke a spell that had made them not even wanna look at these things and not acknowledge them.
• 1:13:50
  And so, it was a spell that I think transcended political class and religion. I think you could see that, and I was amazed by it, especially during the recent Epstein files, that you'd see these videos on TikTok of these, you know, young women that would have you would have defined them as being very liberal and probably the the last people to kind of play into or think about these more kind of right wing conspiracies of, you know, the the new world order, etcetera. But now they're going through this experience where they're crying and they're saying, these people are doing this, and and these are our rulers. And so there there has been this this big shift, I think, in the overall human consciousness to understand what's happening in our society. And I think that's probably one of the first steps in healing our society is actually seeing that there's these things happening.
• 1:14:38
  And so are you seeing that as well, that there is a big shift that's happening as more people are becoming aware of this? And do you also think that you mentioned the kind of nails on the chalkboard or kind of they're holding on. Do you think that the these elite are at a place where that they're losing control? Do you think that's happening?
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I have seen improvement from the seventies, you know. I was, I was out by 1974 at 11 years old.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: Decade before I was even born.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: Yep. There you go. And at that time, in the seventies, it was a weird age, it was a weird time, it was just completely unimaginable to speak to anyone. Like, it would be so beyond, beyond, beyond. It was also a time where there was a push to normalize pedophilia.
• 1:15:31
  It's quite effective. You know, it's quite- No way would it have ever, you know- There was just not a hair on my head that would have thought to actually say anything to anyone. Like, I'm talking one person, and that's also what the network at the time, what they were figuring when they were programming me to never speak, you know, or else, that was very much based on the idea that I dare to speak to one person, let alone, you know, publicly. So, I've only seen improvement since then. Know, in the 1980s, when I went to therapy, the therapists were not able to handle it.
• 1:16:13
  I was getting flashbacks, but I couldn't bring them to my therapist. That took ten years for me to actively seek a therapist that could handle that. That was someone then in 1997, someone who didn't know about this but was open minded. You see, it's a slow- it was very difficult. It was very unknown, even though, you know, they call- they talk about the satanic panic and everything, but I didn't really- I wasn't aware of anything.
• 1:16:46
  I was with my therapists trying to, you know, talk about these flashbacks that made no sense. This is before the internet also, you have to understand. It was not, you know, I wasn't watching. I never watched the news or anything. So, when I finally felt ready to go public because I was pressured in the YouTube case in 1996.
• 1:17:09
  And then in nineteen ninety eight to two thousand, I was kind of pressured from the Belgian side to go public, but I didn't feel ready. Then I waited fifteen more years before I did feel ready. And I had just expected that I would be attacked across the board because that's what I had to be ready for. Don't expect that anybody would ever want to know this. And I understand that, you know, you would want to believe that this isn't true, obviously, because it's so hard.
• 1:17:40
  And because it puts people's worldview at risk, I think it is particularly difficult. It asks for courage to even consider that this is true. So, I understand the projections and I understand that people are going to attack me. So, no, it's been amazing. People were very open from the beginning.
• 1:18:02
  And, of course, I have been heavily attacked as well, but much more so from people that I suspect are either part of the network or, you know, the attacks more come from that side. And then I just see that increasingly, increasingly. You know, where I get blocked now is more from the platforms. You know, I got one very big interview, one very big podcast, and then afterwards complete radio silence. No invites after that.
• 1:18:33
  And that's what I'm noticing. Somebody just told me that I don't have that many followers anyway, but I know that they're messing with the numbers or that they're removing people that are following my channel and they're removing them. Things like that a lot are happening, but people are totally fine.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've experienced it as well. YouTube, I find that YouTube especially is YouTube, Facebook. I think I'm now to my sixth TikTok account that just keeps getting taken down. Oh, X.
• 1:19:10
  Yeah. I put a video out recently about Epstein. I made a little kind of almost like a music video type thing. And it was so heavily censored. It still got, you know, maybe 300,000 views, but it was being shared by accounts with 5,000,000 followers.
• 1:19:29
  People saying, watch this video, and it would get 30,000 views. I mean, it was so obvious that it was being, censored. But there's still you know, Rumble, I've found, has been fantastic. You know, my recent interview with Kathy O'Brien, just from this past less than a week ago, it's up to almost 800,000 views. That's amazing.
• 1:19:51
  Which is which is so that this information is getting out there. And even Facebook, interestingly enough, I had I penned a couple of articles, actually did some long form content on Facebook where I thought, there's no way, you know, like a, you know, a twenty minute read article is gonna go anywhere on Facebook. I wrote a couple articles about the Epstein and and about, you know, the satanic stuff. And I think between two different articles, they got six or 7,000,000 impressions on Facebook.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: And Yes. But I'm lucky if I get 5,000 impressions. Yeah. Or on X, I usually get about between three hundred and five hundred. And I really try to work it by the rules, so to speak, to have more exposure.
• 1:20:35
  Nothing.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's very strong, the grip on information. So, I guess in kind
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: And coming especially, I'm sorry, but I think especially also on survivors, and especially on a survivor that's completely independent.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Exactly. And that's the thing is that what you also notice is that there's these very large accounts, these, you know, whether they're these large Twitter accounts or YouTube accounts, and they won't touch this. They'll kinda touch on it a little bit, and we'll talk about it just enough to make people feel like they're a real truth teller. But they won't they won't they would never interview an SRA victim.
• 1:21:14
  They would never
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know it.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm sure you do.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: Sure frustrating.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, hopefully, I I there's a lot of people that I know that I that I've come to trust that I think are independent. So hopefully, I can help if if I could, you know, if introducing you to people that can have you on their shows, because I think this information is very important to get out. But I guess in in kind of in in concluding here, when you're looking at the bigger picture of just our overall society and and the fate of humankind, do you see hope? Do you see that that whatever darkness has been ruling us that we're there's a path for us ahead?
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, I think that absolutely. I think that for example first of all, I think I embody hope because I really shouldn't be alive or I really shouldn't be doing well. And I should not make sense if I speak, you know, because of everything that I lived through. And, yes, forty years is a long time to focus on healing. And I've had a very, very difficult life, but so worth it.
• 1:22:14
  But ultimately, everybody has to find spirit again. This is the, I think, the shift is that the religions kind of failed in that the organized religion has failed. And I think that that has caused a lot of this darkness now where, you know, obviously atheism is also a belief. But to go back and experience God firsthand, I think that's the really big shift that we're in. And, of course, that could take a while.
• 1:22:57
  But, yes, I only see hope, really, and I only see improvement. But that's not to say that these people who hog the power and the resources, that they have it all. They do have a lot of it. And so, it really is for each person to find that empowerment from within. And then again, when you're empowered from within, that's to say you're connected to spirit, then that's your strength.
• 1:23:25
  And that's all the strength. And then you can do anything.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: Well, it's also good because I think that if someone like you or Kathy O'Brien or JR Sweet or, you know, a number of these people who have walked a similar path. It's like, if you can find hope, and if you can still if you can wake up and smile and find a reason to keep pushing through, then there's no reason why everyone on Earth can't find hope. Because, like, if you've been through the darkness, if you've walked through the valley of the shadow of death that you've walked through, and you can still come out on the other side and be driven to do good and to help others and to inspire a hope, then I think that that in and of itself, I think, should give all of us hope. Right?
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: I think so. Yes. And again, with the personal healing, which really is a way to expand your consciousness and everything gets better. You know, if you would have known me thirty years ago, I had very And not such a great life and probably wasn't a very nice person either very- Most of the time. But everything improves when you go in and when you have that courage to go and look at your own shadows.
• 1:24:52
  That's what it is. Go look at your own shadows and clear those out. Because every time that you try to go at a shadow, it's because you feel shame or something that's been put on you when you're a child. You put that little child that you were in the light of consciousness, then you see, obviously, that child is innocent. And that's how the integration happens.
• 1:25:20
  That's healing. So, it means that your shadow, which is your shame and your, you know, the negative feelings that are hidden and suppressed, when you bring them out and you connect them to their psychological source, it's like, yes, of course, Of course. And then everything gets better.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's so true. Well, Anneke, I want to pull up your website one more time. I'll make sure the link is in the show description. It's just, Anneke Lucas, just like you see spelled on the screenthere.com.
• 1:25:56
  You have a book here, Quest for Love, which I encourage people to purchase. They can purchase it through your website. You can find it on Amazon. I also wanna highlight on your website, you have a podcast tab, and you've got a podcast. So you're on Rumble.
• 1:26:10
  You're on YouTube, BitShoot, a lot of major platforms. And this is, I think, one of the greatest ways that if anyone's watching this, if you're looking for ways of supporting, support with the podcast. Watch it, download it, share it, help get it to more people. Because that's also the one thing I've seen that the algorithms can't stop, is they can't stop just the human action of sharing something. They'll try to, right?
• 1:26:35
  They can stop you from going viral and finding new people, but they can't stop the one to one sharing. They can't stop the grassroots spreading of information. So I really encourage people to check out your podcast, subscribe to it, whether it's on YouTube or Apple Podcasts, etc. Check out your book. And those are great ways of supporting.
• 1:26:52
  And so, Anneke, as we're wrapping up, do you have any final thoughts or any words you wanna tell us?
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: No, I think it was very nice to end with the hope and
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: I tried to.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 2: So, I think that's a beautiful ending. Thank you.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for everything you're doing. Thank you for still being here with us and just fighting through all of this. And, you radiate hope and encouragement. And so I'm glad that we did that. Know, I try to structure things that way.
• 1:27:24
  I don't want to shy away from the dark and the scary and disturbing things, but I don't want to, I never want to end on that. I always want to kind of walk through it and come out on the other side in a way that you can still feel like, Okay, that was really, really bad and really scary, but I'm still going to keep fighting. And now I've somehow I feel even more hope, even though I just learned this really bad stuff. And so I think that we've that, which is, is good. I think that's also the story arc of your life, right?
• 1:27:50
  Is going through the darkness and coming out on the other side with hope that is stronger than the evil and the suffering that you've been through.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yes. Yes. And the love of God ultimately is so great that if we can tap into that, then, you know, we'd all be extremely happy.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Well, Anneke, thank you so much. I really appreciate you giving us your time today.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: Alright. Thank you.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: What you just heard is not the kind of conversation that our culture makes it easy to find. And that's exactly why I think it's really important to tell these stories. The systems that shape our reality depend on people either never hearing stories or voices like Anneke's, or hearing them and then shrugging it off because it's too dark, too strange, or too much. So I'm not here to tell you exactly what to believe. But if you've watched this far, you probably already know that what we're dealing with in this world runs a lot deeper than partisan politics or headlines.
• 1:28:56
  The question now is how you're gonna live in light of these truths that are coming out more and more. For me, the answer is simple. Even if it isn't easy, stay close to God, protect the innocent, build real strength in your own life. It means getting serious about your own healing, your relationships, your kids, having people around you who know you and will stand with you when things get rough. So no one gets through these hard times alone.
• 1:29:21
  Strong humans, men, women, and strong communities are the real counter to the kind of evil that we heard about tonight. So if you wanna support what we're doing here, share this episode just with one person that you trust and have a real conversation about it. Don't just fire it off in a link to a group or your church email. It's not probably not a good idea. Talk to people about it.
• 1:29:43
  And if you're able to, please go support Anneke directly by going to her website at Anneke Lucas and by getting her book and subscribing to her podcast. All those links are in the description. So I hope that you join me next Saturday night for the next episode of SURVIVOR STORIES. Until then, stay grounded, guard your mind, protect the innocent around you, and don't confuse seeing the darkness with surrendering to it.