Latest / Locatora Radio [A Radiophonic Novela] / The Evolution of the "Spicy Latina" With Maria Garcia

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The Evolution of the "Spicy Latina" With Maria Garcia · Locatora Radio [A Radiophonic Novela]

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Spicy Latina has to be a little bossy, a little jealous,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: a little toxica. Yeah. You know, people want a toxica
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: until they really want it, until they really get a toxica. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And then physically, the Spicy Latina trope has to be
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: legible to the white gaze. Right. So there has to
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: be markers of that, you know, like markers of the
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: sort of very visible ethnicity. So it's like performing Latinidad.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: So cold jewelry, a bold lip, long, flowy, full hair,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: dark eyes, curvy. So Latinas are curvy, probably short. Yeah. Yeah.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Under 5'5. So, yeah, to me, that's what Spicy Latina
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Trope gives. Hola, hola, Locamores.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: I'm Diosa, and you're listening to Locatora Radio, a radiophonic novela,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: which is just an extra way of saying a podcast.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Mala is not in the studio today, but I have
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the pleasure of being joined by Maria Garcia, the host
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: of a new podcast called Muy Excited with Maria Garcia.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You might also know her as the host of critically
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: acclaimed podcast Anything for Selena and My Divo.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Maria, to Locatora Radio. Diosa, I'm so excited to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: be here. I'm also a fan of your work and Mala's,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and so truly it's Such a pleasure to be here
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: with you. Thank you. I'm so glad that you're in studio.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: The last time we had you on the show, I
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: think it was season 10 and it was virtual. So
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: it's such a treat to have you here in beautiful LA.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I love LA. Yes. I love LA. It has this
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: like a very special place in my heart, LA. I mean,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I think I've told you the story of the only
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: reason I don't move to LA. You have. You have.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: You have. It's my lore.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you want to share it or is it private?
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: I think I can share it. I think I can
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: share it. So one time I was in Salem, Massachusetts,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and a medium told me... So some context here. I
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: was in Salem, Massachusetts with my partner, Cristela, and I
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: was visiting Salem. I was living in El Paso. I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: still am. But I was considering moving to LA. And...
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: You know, I've lived in the East Coast in Boston,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: New York, but I've never lived in the West Coast.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And I have such beautiful community here. I love Los Angeles.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Like it feels very familiar to me. And I was
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: seriously considering moving. And I had sort of like put
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: some plans in place to potentially move here. And this
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: this psychic medium told me that if I ever moved
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: to L.A., somebody in my family would die. Just straight
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: up like that. Straight up like that. And I didn't
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: give her a hint that I was considering it. And
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: she was like, you're considering moving to California. I can
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: see it. I know it. You're seriously considering moving there.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: The universe is telling me to tell you not to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: do it. Wow. And warning you that if you move,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: somebody in your immediate family will die. And I was like, well, shit.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not going to. Test that. But all
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: my friends here are like, you know what? Because it
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: was a white woman named Sunshine with blue hair in Salem, which,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: you know, we love. We love Sunshine. We love Sunshine.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: But a bunch of my friends are like, girl, you
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: got to go to a bruja, okay? And you got
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: to get this confirmed. Fair enough. You can't make life decisions.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: But I was like, why do I test it? Why
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: test it? I think that that would deter any believer,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: you know? Yes, yeah. Why test it?
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: And before we dive into today's topic, I feel like
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: because I have the privilege of having you in studio
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: and you're talking about brujas and getting your cards read
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: or whatever situation that was, you are like an astro queen.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: You know a lot about astrology. Oh, well, thank you.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: And I want to just take a moment to talk
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: about that briefly. Can you tell us your big three
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: or your four, depending?
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Oh, sure. Girl, let me pull up my whole chart.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Let's do it. Yeah, I mean, I love astrology. It's
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: been a big guiding force for me. And yeah, I
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: just feel very connected to the practice. And we actually,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: we did a podcast called Stars and Stars with Isa,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: where Isa Nakasawa, who's an amazing astrologer, would have notable
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: guests and read them their birth chart while she interviewed them.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: And executive produced that. And like, I feel so passionately
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: that astrology as an art form can be such a
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: help in, in helping you find your purpose and guide
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: you towards your purpose. You know, I don't believe in like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: predictive astrology, like this will happen. But I do believe
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: that astrology helps you understand sort of like the energetic
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: temperature of the time and like helps you watch out for,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: you know, some of your, I wouldn't say weaknesses, but
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: some of the challenges and then and then helps you
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: with your strengths. So with that said, I'm a Gemini son.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: We are marginalized. My mom's a Gemini. I know. I'm
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: part of the Gemini slander. I have to admit. Are
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: you really? I am only because.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: I describe, and I've told you this, I describe my mother,
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: who's a Gemini, as a sour patch kid. You never
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: know which version you're going to get, sweet or sour. Now,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I don't attribute that or apply that to all Geminis.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I just have the privilege of having a Gemini mom.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: No, it tracks. It tracks. It tracks. We are, you know,
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: we are mercurial. We are ruled by Mercury. Yes. I
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: saw a meme that was like, you think you can
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: hurt me? I was raised by a Gemini mom. And
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I was like, why the internet got to bully me
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: like that? But I'm a Gemini sun. I'm an Aquarius moon.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: And I'm a Leo rising. And I'm a Taurus Venus. Yes.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: And I'm actually a Gemini and an Aquarius stellium, which
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: means I have multiple planets, three or more planets in
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: those signs. So I'm all air and fire. Very little water. Yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: And I find like astrology so poetic because my son,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: for example, is a cancer son. And my partner is
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a Pisces stellium. So it's like water, water, water, water.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: And I have no water in my chart except for
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: my 12th house is in cancer. And so your 12th
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: house is sort of like the grand learning of your lifetime,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: what you are supposed to like aspire to uncover in
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: your lifetime. And so the fact that It's in cancer,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: which is the sun sign of my son. Like, I
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: just feel so privileged because I do feel like I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: learned so much from him and from water signs in general.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, wow, y'all really know how to feel
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: your feelings, you know? Absolutely.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I love that you explained that you have like multiple
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: planets in your stellium.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Is that what you... That's how you described it, right? Yeah.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: So I have... So the stellium means that I have, yeah,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: multiple planets in one sign.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: And it makes sense because, Maria, if I may, when
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: I think of you and I look at you, I
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: just think like ethereal and like cosmos. Honestly, I'm like, wow,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: what an ethereal beauty. Not only is she beautiful, she's
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: so brilliant. And so I just had to give you
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: this time to talk about the horoscopes or the zodiac.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: And again, before we dive into today's topic, because I'm
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: so excited to discuss more, I want to ask you
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: just some advice you would give to someone who's like
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: barely tapping in to their birth chart. their zodiac sign
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: and like really uncovering that meaning for themselves.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: your kind words. That means so much to me because,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you know, I have so much respect and admiration for
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: you and a lot of cariño for you. You and
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I are working on something, but we can't talk about
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: it yet. I know. We can't talk about it yet.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: But so that means a lot to me. Thank you.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I guess the advice for somebody who was just starting
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: with astrology is, um, check out houses. A lot of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: people forget houses. So they just look up placements, which
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: is like, Oh, your sun sign, which is, you know,
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  Speaker 1: the main sign and in Gemini. Um, but also every
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: planet placement has a house sign. And so the house
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: sign sort of gives you like the flavor, right? So
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: for example, I'm a Gemini sun, but that, um, that
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  Speaker 1: placement is in the 10th house for me. The 10th
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: house rules career and public roles. So for me, that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: gives me a signal to what my purpose is, which
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: is I'm meant to be conveying ideas in a public way.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: That's part of my purpose here on this planet. I
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: do believe that. And that's Where I find my passion
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: is like making meaning of stories like storytelling is like
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  Speaker 1: one of my like the great love of my life,
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: you know, truly. Yeah. And so I would give that advice.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: I love I love that and that I have a
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: follow-up question to that so you said that in your
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  Speaker 2: house in your 10th house this is where you find
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  Speaker 2: your purpose now did you come across this meaning and
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: interpretation and then did that take you down this path
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  Speaker 2: or were you already on this path and of convening,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: of meeting making, of storytelling, and that just affirmed what
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  Speaker 2: you were already doing?
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  Speaker 1: It was definitely the latter. Like I was already on
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the path and then I saw my birth chart and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, that makes so much sense. And
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: another big example of that is, so, you know, my
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: two podcasts before this, and I think for Selena and
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: My Devo, they were big healing journeys for me. Like
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: I do feel like I was working out some internal
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: emotional baggage around just like healing my inner child in
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: anything for Selena, my inner immigrant child. And with My Devo,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: it was a healing journey around being queer and Mexican
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: at the same time and what that meant. And I
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: found myself just like always writing about these things that
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I needed to heal and, like, working them out through
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: my work, you know, through my professional work. And I
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: was always like, why do I tend to do that?
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: And then I looked at my chart and, like, my
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: chyron is in my 10th house. The chyron is supposed
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to be, like, sort of like your— it' s called the wounded healer.
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  Speaker 1: And it's, like, the things in your life that you
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: are supposed to be sort of, like, healing through and
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: working through. Yeah. And it's in my 10th house of
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: like career and public roles, you know? So it's like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I meant to sort of work these things out through
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: my writing. Publicly in some ways. Yeah. Which is kind
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: of scary. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: But you do it with such grace and connects so
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: many people, I think, to their own stories and their
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: own journey, whether that be through identity, family, you know, origin.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: All of that I think is very present in your work.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you. That's been the most affirming and rewarding thing
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: is to hear people be like, hearing your work helped
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: me on my own healing journey. It's just so affirming
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to hear that. And, you know, that's not to say
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that all of my work is just about me healing.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: I think I was telling Marlon, my collaborator recently that like,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: I'm in my heel girl, heeled girl era. Girl, I've
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: done some shadow work, let me tell you. You know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: I've been in the dark and I do feel like
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Muy Excited, my new show, has so much joy and
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: effervescence and anything Vercelina and my divo did too. But
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: I was also just wrestling with some really deep inner
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: stuff and this show is just so joyous and fun,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: you know? And we talk about things that at first
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: seem kind of just like fun and frivolous, you know,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: like Ricky Martin's evolution, like the history of the Chihuahuas,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: like Luis Miguel and Mariah Carey, like Shakira's black hair,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: like Kate Moss even. But at the end of the day,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it's like, I want to say something profound about these things.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: You know, I want to make meaning like I want
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to tell you like I don't want to just tell
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you a good story. I want to tell you like
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: what that good story is telling us about ourselves, you know,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: and it's been like so wonderful to do that in
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: a way that where I feel. Yeah, where I feel
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: just like really connected to the storytelling and to the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: meaning making. That's so beautiful and so fitting as to
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: why you're joining me here today, because we're going to
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: do a deep dive into, I think, Latina tropes, but
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: more specifically, the spicy Latina and its evolution and even
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: its pushback and how that's morphed into different types of
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: roles that we now can see Latinas in. And one
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: thing we love to do on Locatora is..
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Take these cultural moments, take these cultural figures, take film, TV, music,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: pop culture, and think about what it's reflecting back to us.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And I want us to get into that today. That's
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: so fun. Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm so down. Yes. Okay.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: So I want to start by just defining the spicy Latina,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: the quote spicy Latina. It's first image, first representation goes
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: back decades. as far as the 1920s. But I want
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: to know how you see the spicy Latina trope and how,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: what's your understanding of it?
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, my understanding of it is that it comes from,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously the white gaze, right? And that it's
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: an exaggeration of, I think, a self-empowered Latina, but in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: this sort of like really reductive, stereotypical way. So a
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: spicy Latina to me has to be a few things. Hot.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You know, there's this expectation that spicy Latinas are sexy
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: and beautiful and confident and know it and they're fierce.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: To a spicy Latina has to be a little bitchy.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: You know? And I think my theory is that it
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: comes from like white men who kind of want to
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: be bossed around by a latina you know what i
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: mean like it's like their little fantasy you know don't
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: go anywhere loca mores we'll be right back so yeah
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: has to be a little a little bossy um a
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: little jealous. We're a little toxica. People want a toxica
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: until they really want it, until they really get a toxica. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: And then physically, the spicy Latina trope has to be
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: legible to the white gaze as Latina. So there has
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: to be markers of that, like markers of the sort
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: of very visible ethnicity. So it's like performing Latinidad. So
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: cold jewelry, a bold lip, long, flowy, full hair, dark eyes,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: you know, a come-hither gaze, curvy. Spicy Latinas are curvy.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Probably short. You know what I mean? Yeah. Under 5'5. So, yeah,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: to me, that's what spicy Latina trope gives. Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I agree with all of those examples.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And especially I think in addition to what you said
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: is also like having an accent. You know, an exaggerated
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: accent at that.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Yes. So let's dive into that specifically. So when prepping for.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: This episode, learned about this actress named Lupe Velez. She
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: rose up to fame during the golden age of Hollywood cinema.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: And she starred in this film called The Girl from Mexico.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And then. OK. The Mexican Spitfire. OK. Yes.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: And so most people think of Carmen Miranda as the originator.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of this trope or this trope was placed on her,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: on Carmen Miranda. But before Carmen Miranda, there was Lupe Velez.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And she was, it seems like she identified as a Chicana,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: was born in San Luis Potosi, but went to school
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: in Texas.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: And made her way in Hollywood and.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Was not necessarily given the shine the way the other
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: actresses were at that time. The actresses from Mexico, like
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: we think of Dolores del Rio, we think of Maria Felix. She,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: for some reason or another, did not reach that caliber,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: maybe because she took on more, quote, comedic roles. But
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: That is when I learned that she starred in these
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: films that came out in the 1930s, the late 1930s
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: and early 1940s. And she had this storied career, but
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: she represented this, quote, spitfire, this spicy Latina before Carmen
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Miranda did.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's fascinating. Lupe Velez.
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: What did she look like?
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: She was beautiful, you know, of course, like petite, brown hair,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: you know, um... I mean, she's made up in, like,
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: this 1940s makeup, you know?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And in the.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: Posters for the film, they're very bright, they're very colorful.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: She's very luscious in them.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, you know, my thing about the
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: fiery Latina is I never want to judge the women
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: who have had to play these roles for a couple
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: of reasons. One is... You know, we know that these industries,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: especially the filmmaking industry, I mean, has been historically and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: even on a contemporary level, like, you know, engineered mostly
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: by white folks, by white men in particular. And for example,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I think of somebody like Meryl Streep, who is arguably
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: the best actor in the world, right? Has the most...
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Oscar nominations from anyone in the world. We have an
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: episode and we excited about her. But she said a
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: quote that stuck with me, which is that women actors
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: are essentially like at the mercy of the roles that
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: are offered to them. Yeah. who are building their own
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: film studios who are able to do that more. Yes.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: And thank you. They're doing the Lord's work. We love them. Trailblazers.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: But historically, like women actors have really been at the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: whim of like the roles that are offered to them,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, we can't put today's context and lens on
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: the actresses of that time period.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: 1940s, consider what roles were available to them. This was
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: a time when Latino actors were pressured to change their
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: names so that they didn't have a quote Spanish sounding
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: last name. So all of that context is important, but
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: also shows us how a trope that has lasted all
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: these years was created, why the possibility and the framework
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: was there because of all these All these different reasons,
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the historical context.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And we see that it's lasting, right? That it
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: like lasted over the decades. I think of, for example,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: some of Salma Hayek's movies, which I love Salma. This
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: is truly not a dig like. But, you know, Fool's Russian, right?
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: The movie she did with Matthew Perry. Yes. She's a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: total spicy Latina in that film, right?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: She's just, like, chopping vegetables, cooking, and listening to salsa.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, same. Yeah, truly. I mean, we love you
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: for it, girl. I mean, truly, like, you'll catch me
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: in my kitchen doing that once in a while, right? Yes, yes.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: And I actually, like, love that movie. Same. It's so good.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: You know? But, yeah, I think..
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: To your point, like, I think that was, what did
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: that come out in the early 2000s, the early.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Aughts, more or less? Was it or was it the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: late 90s? I don't know. We would have to double
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: check that. But around that era. Around that time. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And we can see that film as the classic now.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: But, you know, one that we can also look at
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: that context like, OK, this is what was happening here.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: Of course. And, you know, two things can exist at once. Yes.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: You know, like... You can love Salma in that movie
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and you can enjoy that movie. And you can also
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: recognize that it's like acting out a trope. Right. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that like we don't enjoy it or
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: that that we can't recognize Salma so good in that
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: movie and that it's a classic. But it definitely is
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: like quintessential spicy Latina from dusk till dawn, you know,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: where she comes out. Honestly, like iconic scene. So good.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Iconic scene where Salma comes out. With the big snake
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and she's dancing and she puts like her toe in
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: the guy's mouth, I think. So good. Honestly, hot. Like
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: she's so, it's her at her prime. She's so beautiful.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously body is tea, like just incredibly gorgeous.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: And also, you know, playing out, you know, This this
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: idea that Latinas must be just sizzling hot. Yeah.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: You know, always wanting to have sex like that's one
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: of the things the one of the messages that we get.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Right. Is that there's.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: When thinking about this idea of like both things can
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: be true. It's like, yes, we are all sexual beings.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of us do enjoy, right, having sex. But
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: I think the hyper-sexualization of these characters, right, then create this,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: feed into that trope, create this dehumanizing aspect as well
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: of these characters.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, we just ran an episode
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: about Ricky Martin, right? And that was... The central tension
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: to me of his narrative arc and his career is that,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: you know, he's like the quintessential example of the so-called
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Latin boom in the late 90s. And, you know, that
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Grammys performance where he sang the Cup of Life and
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: issued in Ricky Mania. You know, I mean, he really
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: was he was on the cover of every single magazine ever.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: He was the first Latino to release a song that
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: went number one on the Billboard 200 chart. He drew
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: in like the biggest crowd in the history of the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Today Show up until that point. I mean, he really
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: was like a mainstream American success. Right. Not just like
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: a American Latino, but mainstream white American success. And, you know,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: he had to sort of like fit a mold and
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: he's written about it. You know, he he was expected
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: to be a hot Latin lover. And the expectation was
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that he had to be seductive to women and seduce
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: women specifically. And here he was like gay. Right. And
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: unable to come out and deeply internally conflicted. Because his
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: dreams came with a cost, which was fit into this box,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: be legible to this audience. And if you stray from that,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: then your success is not guaranteed in this country. And
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: there's so many Latinos who have navigated that. Absolutely.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: And I think there's, when thinking about even a more...
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: contemporary i don't know is it 2015 2010s is that
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: even contemporary anymore but like thinking of a character like
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: gloria from modern family yeah who's played by sofia vergara
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: beautiful iconic such a hilarious character in so many ways
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: but i i think at that time the way she
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: her character was written it so much of the joke
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: was about no one being able to understand her because
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: her accent was so thick Yeah. Or in English, she
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: was kind of, quote, dumb.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Right. That was like how she was portrayed. Yeah.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: But then there were these moments where her character would
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: say things like, do you even know how funny I
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: am in Spanish?
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Do you even know how smart I am? Yeah.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: And I feel like that character held a lot of
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: that tension. of playing this really sexy, beautiful Latina, but
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: also there was some complexity in how she was being
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: read and how this character was being read in this
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: family in particular. I think it complicates that a little bit.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I think that character does show an
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: evolution in the way that society is one, is more
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: aware of the trope and maybe still engages with the trope,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: but in a way that wrestles with it, right? We
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: see that in the show. It's very meta, that it
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: knows that this character is a trope, but that it, yeah,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: navigates it differently. And I do think that that is
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: an example of maybe art reflecting life in some way,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: because I have always felt that Sofia Vergara, I don't
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: think she gets the respect she deserves. And I have
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: seen interviews with her when she's been on late night
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: shows with other celebrity guests. And there is a mirroring
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: of the way people treat Gloria and they treat her.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Like the one and the same. Yeah, like there is...
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: There is some similarity there, because Sofia does naturally have
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: an accent. Yeah, I see it. I see it. And
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I've always wondered what that's like for her. I think
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: something that's really popular right now online is... People cutting, well,
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: people going back to these late night talk shows and
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: clipping these really uncomfortable moments, specifically for women who are
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: being interviewed.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And in this case, Sofia Vergara. And where the host,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: typically a white man, is obtuse to maybe how uncomfortable
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: she is or doesn't care.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Because it's part of the bit, part of the quote
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: joke scene. But I've seen a couple of Sophia in
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: particular where folks have gone back and really highlighted these
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: different moments where she is being hypersexualized during an interview.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: And you can see like kind of that wrestling of
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: do I play into this because this is a part
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: of my job and this is I'm here to perform
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: in a way. But also, you know, like slow your
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: roll like. I'm, I'm an actor, like this is my job,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you know? And I see that tension, I think with
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: her in particular.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And I agree.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: I don't think she's always given that respect or her
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: flowers for like how much she's endured. And in some,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I think in some ways it's, I don't know if
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: we recognize her as a trailblazer.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Like she was doing comedy. You know, she's played comedic roles. Yeah. Yeah.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: She's treated as a punchline for sure. Like put some
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: respect on her name. Yeah. You know, for sure. Yeah.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm so glad that we're at an age
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: where we have this rich archive of people being horrible.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: yeah yeah like 10 20 years ago um and i
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: have to tell you for me excited a lot you
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: know it's culture moments of the past and present so
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: we use a lot of archival sound you know to
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: to demonstrate someone's story and these interviews so i've spent
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: so much time looking at old vintage interview i mean
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: vintage like the year 2000 vintage it's retro now um
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: i i know you talked about one in particular in
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: episode one of your show with ricky martin and barbara
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: walters i also want to know don't go anywhere we'll
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: be right back If there's any that stand out to you. Absolutely.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Diane Sawyer and Britney Spears.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, girl. Yes. I watched that and my blood boils.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And look, like I think you know me more on
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: a personal level. And like I'm not one. I'm just
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: not like a big shit talker. And I'm not a
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: person who calls someone out. I believe in calling people in.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But this is one where I was just like, you
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: know what? Like these people, they mistreated Britney. They abused
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: her psychologically. So many people in the media. And I
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: do call them out in the episode because it's shameful
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: what they did to her. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: And I think then there's this desire to then look away.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Right. We can look.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Back on the treatment that Brittany endured by the media,
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: by late night talk show host, also someone who became
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: a punchline.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: And we can see looking back then like, oh, that
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: was wrong. She shouldn't have been treated that way. Take
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: it to present day when she's posting stuff on social
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: media and making people uncomfortable. People want to look away.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: There's like this cognitive dissonance that.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Happens, I feel like, in particular with Brittany, where we
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: can look back on the past and say that was wrong,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: but then can't see what's happening right in front of
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: us and recognize like, well, this.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Person still has this. perhaps mental health problems is clearly
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: recovering from decades of being abused and healing can be uncomfortable.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: And when it's in your face that way online, I
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: think people panic or they get really uncomfortable and they
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: don't know what to do with it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and healing is nonlinear, you know, like what's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: really bothered me about the Brittany conversation is like, you know,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: any little thing she does and people are like, well,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: that's why the conservatorship. And it's like, No, no, you can't. Like,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: like our girl has been through the ringer. Like, give
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: her some grace. You know, she's she's coming out on
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: the other side and sometimes it's going to look a
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: little messy. And yeah, I have a huge soft spot
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: for Britney for sure. I agree. Yeah.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: If there's anyone that deserves like all the grace and
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: all the love from the world, from the universe.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: It's Britney. Yeah. Justice for Britney all the way. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: OK, so I now want to talk about some of
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: the Latinas, either past or present, who have pushed back
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: on this spicy Latina trope, either in.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: There like as as real people.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking of like Aubrey Plaza.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: She's like the deadpan Latina or Latina actresses who have
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: taken on roles or characters who also push back on
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: this trope.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: You know who I think is one that doesn't get
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: enough credit for something like this? Is J-Lo. Yes. I
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: do think she doesn't get enough credit because, you know,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: think about all the rom-coms she's done. I mean, she's
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: one of the queens of rom-com. Maybe arguably the queen
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: of rom-com of our era. And, you know, for example, Monster-in-Law.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: She's not a spicy Latina there. She's not. She's not
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: at all. She's a temp worker, you know? She walks
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: dogs and she's an artist. Yes. Like, she did roles
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: that really upended this idea that Latinas had to be, like,
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: you know, fiery, super sexualized in every role, you know?
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: And I don't think she gets enough credit for her
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: rom-com roles. I love that.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Because when I was prepping for this episode with you,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I went back and listened to the episode that we
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: had last season with you, and we were talking about J-Lo.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: And so I just love that this is coming full.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Circle because I am a J-Lo stan, and people always
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: want me to say something bad about her, like be
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: honest about her. And I'm like, I don't know her
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: as a person. I know her as a cultural icon,
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: and that's how I'm going to read her and talk
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: about her.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: And I agree. I think that— The pendulum swings. She
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: was beloved. Right now she's.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Not the favorite. There's been a lot of hatred. But
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I have a feeling it's going to swing back.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, the thing about J-Lo is it's
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: okay to wrestle with her legacy and trajectory a little bit,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: you know, for it to be, like, a little messy. Yeah, messy.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: All of our faves have messy trajectories. For sure. For sure.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: All of them do. All of them do. For me,
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the thing that's been really hard for me with JLo
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: is that she didn't give Ashanti credit for the singing.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: And I just feel like, girl. And also, I'm a
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Mariah Carey stan. Yeah, same. You know, I'm a believer
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: that you can be both. Why choose? Why choose? I
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: don't know. I feel like Mimi would make us choose. Oh,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Mimi would 1,000% make us choose. Yes, yes. But me,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I am not going to choose. Yeah, and I think,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: you know, I think she's someone who..
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Also deserves like to be looked at through a context
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: of the time she came up in.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: You know, and when Ashanti's voice was being sampled, I
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: don't think she was at the caliber that we would
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: say she is now.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I think she was still beholden to record labels and producers.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And I agree that there should have been credits given,
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: that there should be recognition that If there's any royalties
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: that were not given, should be given. But I also
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: think that she becomes a scapegoat for like everything wrong
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: in the music industry when it's.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: There's so many. I mean, Tommy Mottola. Oh, my God.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Was at the at the. You know, he was totally there.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: That was that was. Yeah, that was his move. Totally.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: And we know why. Yes. Yes. She was the foil
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: to Mariah Carey.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: And so I for me, it's like I want all
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: that context to be shared when we're talking about JLo
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: and that time period in particular.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And ultimately, like I, I
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: also think JLo, look, nobody works as hard as JLo. Nobody.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Nobody works as hard as JLo. I just,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I believe that with my whole heart. Um, and you know,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: she says something like, it's okay to be misunderstood. Like
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: she said that multiple times that you have to be
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: comfortable with being misunderstood. And the thing I love about JLo,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: let me tell you is girlfriend is okay with being seen.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: And I know that sounds very basic. Like You have
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: to be if you're a movie star. But no, truly, like,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: you know, this last, like, movie album she did for
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Ben Affleck before they broke up with the steampunk thing.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I loved it because it was so earnest. It was so, like, cringe.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Cringe doesn't know her. Yes. She does not know that feeling. Yeah,
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: cringe hates to see her coming, you know. And I
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: love somebody who lives that way. I love somebody who says, like,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: I'm in love right now and I want to scream
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: it from the rooftops and I want to do it
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: my way. And I don't care if people think it's corny.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I don't care if people think it's confusing. I don't
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: care if people think it's cringy. Like I didn't think
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it was cringy. I loved it. I loved it, too.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved it. I was like immediately. Yes. Yeah.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: That was like a turning point for me with JLo.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I was like, I, I really. Yeah. I feel like
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I get her more. And I saw her in an
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: interview where she talked about how. When she has a partner,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: like for a long time, she wanted to share her
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: public life with the partner. Like she wanted a partner
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: who was there in the red carpet with her. she
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: wanted somebody she could thank in awards like and to
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: me I think it's really gutsy to say something like
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: that because you hear all these celebrities being like My
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: private life. My private life. It's all private. It's all private.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: You know? And J-Lo's like, no. I'm a fucking diva. Yeah.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: And whoever is going to be with me has to
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: be in the diva spotlight. Yeah. And girl, I love
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: a diva who owns her divaness. And J-Lo does it
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: better than anyone. And I think, like, she deserves some
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: respect for that. I'm with you. I'm with you. I
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: thought the film, her self-funded film, was campy. It was... creative.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: And I think it just it needed to find the
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: right audience is what I think, you know, and I
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: agree there is. it's bold to put yourself out there
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: in that way.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: And I, and when we talked about this on the show,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: we did like a whole deep dive on the film
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: and why it was so hot to hate JLo at
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: that point. And something that we, we talked about was one,
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: like the, I think ageism of it all, you know,
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: like there's this, she should like, you know, be not
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: in the spotlight anymore. She should like sit at home.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: and not be making anything anymore. And then two, actually,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: it's okay if people make bad art. And that's subjective,
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: of course, but not everything is going to be a masterpiece.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Not everything is going to be Grammy winning or Academy
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Award winning. And we can let art be bad for
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the sake of someone made art. And I think that
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: that is something when I look at that film, even
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: though I liked it, I'm like, let it be bad.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: She wanted to make it. She had the funds to
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: make it and she loves it.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: She stands by it. And what can we learn from
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: bad art?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: You know, I think that was my principled stance behind
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: that film.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm so tired of people wanting to elevate everything
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: like people like. I'm going to do this, but elevated.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, but elevated. And it's like, girl,
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I want to stay down here. Let it be lowbrow
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: if it needs to be lowbrow. Yes, exactly. Like not
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: everything has to be like super elevated. And the thing is, like,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't even think that was bad art. Like I
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: don't look at it and think like this is objectively
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: bad art. I can understand the critiques. I do intellectually
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: like get the criticisms around it. But to me, it
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: was so fun and so imbued by her spirit and
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: her enthusiasm that, like, that inherently makes it good. Because
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: I feel like I was experiencing her, like, her devotion
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: to this love, this decades-long, like, clearly, like, one of
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: the loves of her life. And I just..
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm down for it. Yeah. She's a lover girl.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I see it. I don't think her and Ben Affleck
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: are done. I think. Oh, no, I don't think that's
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: not done. No, absolutely not.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it'll be less public next time. But also,
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: if it's not, I'm here for it.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: OK, so another Latina actress that I wanted to bring
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: up today.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Is Jenna Ortega. Yes. I think she's like giving us
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: like light goth. At least on the red carpet. Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I think she brings like a different energy to, I think,
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: the tropes that we've seen in.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: How she performs, you know, in her roles.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: And also, you know, when she's doing interviews, when she's
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: doing press, I think she gives us something a little different.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: I agree. I agree. And I do think that, you know.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I don't think we could have gone straight into the
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: era of like Jenna Ortega and, you know, the awkward
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: Latina Aubrey Plaza, you know, and I mean that lovingly.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I think that the OGs had to break some of
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: those stereotypes for us to get here. Yeah. You know,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: and that's why I do think like I love paying
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: homage to. to like the artists who came before, because
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I do think like, you know, evolution, cultural evolution is iterative.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: It happens over generations, you know? And so I do
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: believe that the, the Shakira's and the Ricky Martin's of
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: the world, like did pave a way, you know, for
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Jenna Ortega, right. To be as like goth and ridiculous,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: ejecting of the of the fiery Latina trope for young
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Miko you know to be a sort of like openly
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: queer and fabulous on stage um like and so I'm
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: so glad we're living in an age where we're where
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: we're dismantling those tropes I think it's it's happening slowly
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: but I do think it is happening yeah do you.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Think the pendulum will ever swing back to the spicy
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Latina or do you think.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: Or do you think it'll come back? I think it'll
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: come back. Yeah, I think it'll come back. But I think,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: you know, even if it does, you know, I think
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: in the long arc of history, you know, I do
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: think that we will live in a society and we're
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: starting to see it right where people can exist more
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: in their complexity and their contradictions and we can hold
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: all of those things. And, you know, so I think
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: like the spicy Latina thing will always exist. And honestly,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: if it wasn't so reductive, I would be into it.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: I was about to say that, Maria. I was about
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: to say, I don't hate it.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I don't hate it because I know it's an elevated
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: idea or representation of women, and in this case, Latinas.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, do I see myself in it?
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Sort of like, is it all that I am? No.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: Is it me entirely? Also, no. But I also don't
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: hate it because, yeah, we are hot and we are
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: funny and we can be a little, quote, bitchy. Really,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: it's just mood because people have moods. Yeah. Right.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: So I don't see I don't hate it, but I
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: do think exactly what you're saying, because it's reductive and
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: because for so long it's all that was available to us.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I think that's why there's. We can have this conversation now.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: We can push back on this idea of this is
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: all that we are. because we recognize that it's been reductive.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: But I think we can also, you know, see some
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: of the fun in it.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Of course. You know, and there's characters that we like,
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: that we love, that we're like, that was fun.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Like Salma Hayek. Yes.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Like Eva Longoria as Gabby Solis. You know, I love
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: that character.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's an iconic character. Oh my gosh. For sure.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: They need to have a reunion. I feel like it
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: needs to come back. Yeah, I agree. And, look like
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: these tropes are a stereotype. So what are they? They're
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: exaggerations of a truth, you know? And so like, is
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: there a seedling of truth in the high, in the
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: fiery Latina for many of us? Yes. You know, like, um,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: you know, like my partner will tell you, like, I,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I can embody some of those like stereotypical characteristics some,
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: some of the time, you know what I mean? Like,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: I can get like, you know, a little demanding, a
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: little jealous. That's new for me. That's new for me.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like I feel safe enough to be jealous.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: You know? Oh, that's so interesting that there's. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I want to unpack that later.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Like the idea of being safe enough to be jealous.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. I was in prior relationships where they were like,
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: why are you never jealous? And I realized like, I
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: just never felt like emotionally safe enough to express that.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: And now that I do, I'm like, interesting. I'm the opposite.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I like, I think in my early twenties, those relationships,
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: there was a lot of jealousy, reciprocal jealousy.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: And now I'm like, No, I don't. I don't feel
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: jealous at all. There's moments, but I would definitely.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: That's like one of the least emotions that I feel
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: in my current relationship.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful. That's wonderful to hear. I think mine is
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: like a playful jealous. You know, I don't think it's
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: like a for real jealous. But yeah, I think it's
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: because maybe I wasn't like I didn't feel comfortable to
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: express that before. That makes sense.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: So there's a safety and I can express that I'm
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: feeling jealous about this thing or what was said.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Yes. Okay. But it's also like queer culture, like WLW culture,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: where it's like, girl... You keep in touch with exes
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: from like 20 years ago. Yes. You know, like and and,
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: you know, for for us bisexual baddies, like I that's
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: not always the case. You know, like I don't really
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: keep in touch with my with my man exes. Mm hmm.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: So it's just like a different culture to be like, oh,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: my ex-girlfriend still on dial. That's so funny.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: That's so true because my jealousy was when I was
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: with women.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: That was when I was feeling it girl it's all
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: it's all community but it just means like I'm screaming
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: that's so funny yeah yeah yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: I see that I see that yeah there's levels to
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: it there's levels to it but it's good.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: That you feel safe enough to express that Thank you.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Jealousy is a human emotion. It is, yeah. That is, like,
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: what I always say about jealousy. I'm like, everyone feels jealous.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Everyone has moments of jealousy, whether that's in a relationship,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: a friendship, a job, right?
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: But it's, like, what we do with it. Like, that's
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: what matters. And also getting curious about it, you know? Like,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: I tell my son all the time, like, you know,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: with feelings, we have to get curious about our feelings. Like,
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: what is this feeling trying to tell you? What is
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: it trying to point you towards? Like, What can you
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: excavate and learn from this feeling? And then once you
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: learn it, you feel the feeling, you get curious and
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: then you let it go, you know? And so that's
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: why I think it is about jealousy. Like what, why
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: am I feeling this way? Is it just like, discomfort
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: because I'm not used to this like I'm not used
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: to like the person I'm with like being friends with
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: somebody like like an ex or something you know and
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: I think yeah maybe that's that's that's new for me
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: yeah okay okay I love that curiosity about our emotions
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: exploring it being honest about it I love that. Yeah.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: So maybe there is like a little fiery Latina in
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: all of us, you know? There is. There is. It
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: is part of our birthright. We are passionate people. I
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: think it's good to be expressive.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I agree with what you said a while
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: back now about when there's a stereotype, right, there is
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: some seedling of truth. There's some, yeah, there's just truthfulness
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: behind it. And it's just like the heightened, hidedness of it,
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: you know, especially in media that that's when it becomes reductive. But,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: you know, lots of people are passionate. Lots of people
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: have big emotions, you know, beyond ethnicity and race.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And like you said, like jealousy, sexual desire, even anger,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: like all of those are very like human emotions that
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Latinas happen to feel, too. Yes. Wow. What a concept.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Latinas have feelings. Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Well, Maria, this has been such a treat. Do you
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: have any final words, thoughts about anything that we discussed
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: or anything you want to share with us today?
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for having me, Diosa. And
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: congratulations on 10 years of podcasting. Thank you. What a
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: trailblazer you and Mala have been. I'll say justice for Brittany. Yes. Always.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Always justice for Brittany. Embrace your inner fiery Latina, you know,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: if she's in there. And... And embrace that there's so
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: many other layers in you and it's not just her
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: in there. It's also like your sad girl Latina, you know, it's, it's,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: it's all kinds of people in there, um, where we, uh,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: are made of many, many, many aspects to us. Um,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Which brings us back to astrology and full circle. Yes,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: it does. It really does.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Now, tell us about, before we end, tell us about
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: your show, how folks can find it, when they can listen,
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: and what they can.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Expect this season. Oh, thank you for asking. Yeah, so
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: the show is called Muy Excited with Maria Garcia. And
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: it's very exciting because it's a storytelling show. So every
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: week we go deep and I tell you the story
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: of a big cultural moment of the past or the present.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: And I tell you what it all means. And you
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: can watch us on YouTube. You can look up Muy
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Excited with Maria Garcia or you can listen to us
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you get your podcasts.
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm really thrilled about it because we get into
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: like some really fun topics. But like I said, there's
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: like I think there's like a profound takeaway at the end.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: And that's been really wonderful to like write through these
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: episodes and do some like deep cultural analysis. And then
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: there's also like some personal anecdotes for me.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: It's.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: It's fun and it's deep at the same time. So
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I'm excited. Our favorite type of show. I love that. Well,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: thank you, Maria, for joining us. Thank you, Diosa.
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Locamores, for listening to another capítulo of Locatora Radio.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: We'll catch you next time.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: Besitos.