Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 56: GLAZERS & INEOS – IT’S GAME OVER | The 1958 Reveal Why Protests Are Happening

Transcript

Ep 56: GLAZERS & INEOS – IT’S GAME OVER | The 1958 Reveal Why Protests Are Happening · Let's Kick It Off!

0:00
Manchester United just won the Derby.
0:03
Our supporters should be buzzing.
0:04
And yet fans are organising protests.
0:09
That tells you this isn't about results, managers or transfers
0:12
anymore. It's about ownership and it's
0:15
about a breaking point. We've been talking on this
0:18
podcast about the Glazers and Ineos, about 20 years of failed
0:22
leadership, about where this club is heading since episode
0:25
254. Episode to go and today, despite
0:30
a Derby win, many supporters are saying enough.
0:34
In this conversation with Steve from the 1958, we explain why
0:38
protests are happening now, what outcome supporters want and why
0:41
short term results on the pitch are no longer enough.
0:44
This isn't reaction, this is the consequence.
1:02
Let's kick it off. I'm Steve and I'm joined by Ash
1:06
and another Steve. We have Steve from the 1958 with
1:09
us. So thank you very much Steve for
1:11
joining us. There's only one place to start
1:13
following the weekend. Manchester United beat
1:16
Manchester City. 2 nil, could have been 5 nil, could have been
1:19
7 nil. Steve, I know you're front row
1:22
of Stretford and Tier 2, so fair to say you had a good a good
1:26
Saturday. It was, yeah.
1:28
I mean there was absolute there was chaos.
1:32
And I mean, I suppose this is part and parcel of I've been
1:35
spending life with Van. I was a live match going fan.
1:38
It was I think I had to pick myself up off the floor twice.
1:43
And then it's like you've got people tucking in on the bike
1:45
lights off side by it's offside. You know, it's I mean what a
1:49
performance it was when you least expect it.
1:52
I mean, I think everybody, if we're totally honest, was
1:55
expecting an absolute drubbing on on Saturday.
1:57
Yeah, I get the the you know, the carrot bones and new manager
2:01
bones, but I think we never never really saw that under
2:05
armouring, did we? It went from or I gradually to
2:09
it got worse, but it was it was just do you know what?
2:13
As for me as a much going fan, watching players give 100% is
2:18
kind of all you ask for. The rest follows, you know what
2:20
I mean? And it's nobody in the, you
2:22
know, there's nobody ever sort of foolish enough to think,
2:28
well, you know, we deserve to win every game because you know,
2:30
we're we're we're not that team anymore, but giving 100% from
2:35
start to finish. And then players that went off
2:37
by the 17th minute assault, they were absolutely they were done.
2:41
They, they had given everything, you know, so it's great to see
2:45
and it's all you want. And the result, I mean, you
2:47
know, we made city look very average.
2:49
It was, it was quite shocking, but a good day, good day.
2:53
Yeah. So look, it was a great result,
2:56
great performance, but there is obviously bigger fish to fry and
2:59
that is why we've got you on his deep fish to talk about the
3:04
issues at the club, the cancer at the club.
3:06
You know, we can say, you know, at the end of the day, real love
3:09
United because of what happens on the pitch.
3:12
But obviously when decisions off the field start to impact things
3:16
happening on the pitch, that's when we start to get concerned.
3:19
And obviously, Steve, you know, you're part of the 1958.
3:23
So would you just talk to us a little bit about your
3:25
background, first of all, when you first started following
3:28
United and kind of how that then developed into form in the 1950?
3:32
8 me personally, but my, my initial games were birthdays and
3:38
Boxing Day as a very, very youngster.
3:40
And you know, they were late 70s and I grew up predominantly
3:47
listening to midweek games on the radio with my dad.
3:50
It was the only time he'd let me stay up late.
3:52
Do you know what I mean? Because I was very, very young
3:54
at the time witnessing the 7779 cup finals, you know, because I
4:00
mean like then and even, you know, even even through the 80s,
4:05
we United were a good cup team. It's kind of all, you know, we,
4:09
we'd, we'd never really never in my wildest dreams, I think the
4:15
season. So I got my season ticket the
4:18
season the Premier League started. 9293.
4:24
A good time in 1893. Amazing.
4:27
That was good. Well, a good timing, but back
4:31
then you collected tokens to get what was called the match ticket
4:35
book so that the the the actual match day ticket, you cut out
4:39
the middle and you had a AA four thing from the club and you
4:43
literally stuck each and you needed every every home game to
4:47
qualify for what was then called the league match ticket book.
4:51
I was going to say, I remember like being a kid, like hearing
4:54
about that, like the book that they called it, right?
4:57
But all he all, all that was was A-Z vouchers and you just got
5:01
told what what like today is voucher DE, you know, whatever.
5:06
It was OK, OK you. Literally went through the
5:08
alphabet, through your vouchers, but it was, you know, going as a
5:15
school kid. I started going on my own
5:17
probably when I was 1415 to Old Trafford, catching the market
5:22
bus, getting the getting there for when the turnstiles open.
5:26
So you get down to the front of the Stratford End and because,
5:29
as daft as it sounds, it was the safest place to be because
5:32
you've got the back then you had the railings still.
5:35
Right. Whenever a goal was scored, it
5:39
was, you know, whoever was behind you as a as a an adult,
5:42
they held on the railings and made sure that all the kids down
5:45
the front. So you, it was the safest place
5:48
to be, right? Yeah.
5:50
And then, as I said, it was, you know, when we the the season
5:57
before the Premier League, when we lost the league to Leeds,
6:01
that was it for me. We, we're never going to win the
6:03
league. We just can't.
6:04
We we're never going to, we're never a football team that are
6:07
ever going to win the league, will enjoy good cup runs some
6:09
days at Wembley and you know, you sort of reside to that.
6:13
And then what followed? Crikey, never in my wildest
6:17
dreams, you know, so it was there's, but you know, it, it,
6:23
there's been ups and downs with it, but that that's part and
6:26
parcel of being a football fan. That's, you know, you don't.
6:28
I've always said to people, football works in cycles and you
6:31
know, you will, you'll be on top and then you won't.
6:34
Some teams are never fortunate to even witness being on top.
6:38
So we are quite fortunate. I, I think as fans of, of, of
6:42
Manchester United. Then as far as the, the 58 are
6:46
concerned. So they, they, they as a group
6:48
were formed after the European Super League, the Liverpool game
6:52
got called off a group of like minded Reds who I instantly got
7:00
behind. You know, it was a voice that
7:02
was seemingly A sensible voice and I got behind everything.
7:07
You attend, every protest you face gets known and seen.
7:10
And I was invited to the to the Richard Arnold pub meeting.
7:14
You were there, the famous. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7:18
Wasn't quite what we was expecting.
7:20
I don't think any of us were. But it was, you know, it was
7:23
certainly a day to remember. And from then I've, I've just
7:27
grown into the group, if you will.
7:29
And you know, I've taken over all the media side of stuff, but
7:33
also being the first face that that, to be honest, I was at a
7:38
point where I didn't give a shit, you know what I mean?
7:40
It was, I don't care who sees my face.
7:42
I don't care about the Flack I'll get on social media because
7:45
that was always a concern, he said.
7:47
Once you are known, you become a target.
7:51
But you know, I'm old enough and daft enough to not like sort of
7:54
hurt your words get to me on on Twitter.
7:57
So I wasn't really bothered. But Infernus in general, it
8:03
went, it went good. It went well from, you know,
8:05
being that first, first name. I think the first thing they did
8:08
was when he first came out was on Stratford Paddock with Joe.
8:12
Yeah, I think it went down a lot better than everybody thought it
8:15
would. As in right.
8:17
OK, well we have got somebody to talk to.
8:19
Can be a bit of a burden at times when you've got a family,
8:23
you've got a full time job, you know, and it's trying to cram
8:26
all that in and especially the run up to because kind of, you
8:31
know, everybody wants a piece of you.
8:33
Then journalist, as I said, you know, I just had Chris literally
8:36
as we starting Chris Wheeler was only got time for a chat.
8:40
So but you know, we'll catch up tomorrow.
8:42
The plus side to that though is, is the mainstream media.
8:46
I mean, you know, I took it on board to try and build
8:50
relationships up with the media initially and it was hard work.
8:54
You know, we, we didn't have a lot of credibility at the time.
8:56
Yes, we'd made some noise. How long was it going to last?
8:59
You know, was it a flash in the pan?
9:01
Is that these lads going to disappear?
9:03
You know, and we've stood the test of time to the point where
9:06
we begged the press to sort of write something up on what we
9:10
was doing. Whereas now it's kind of it's
9:13
gone full circle And that, you know, the press are homely knows
9:17
to protest as as mad as it sounds, you know.
9:21
And so here we are. That's the 1958.
9:24
And, you know, the rest of this is it's history.
9:27
We've organised a lot of lot of protests.
9:30
We've yeah, ourself a lot of traction both follower wise on,
9:34
on social media accounts, but also within, you know, we've got
9:39
our own subscription on the FC Fan Coalition 58.
9:42
And I mean, the last time I looked at that, there was over
9:45
95,000 members on there. So you know, people, people
9:50
appreciate what we do and you know we don't do what we do for
9:54
you know the we're hoping disrespectful to you guys.
9:57
I've got better things to be doing at our past.
9:59
Course, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we love, don't
10:02
you? You know, we're not in it for
10:04
anything else other than we want to see these absolute toss pot
10:09
owners gone, you know, rid from our football club.
10:12
And, you know, sadly, now that I put Radcliffe in the same, in
10:16
the same bracket, I don't see any good coming from this, this
10:19
partnership that is, is set up. And I also don't feel at the
10:25
minute that this partnership is, is going to change.
10:28
I think when we did, we did slacken off from, from what was
10:32
doing protest wise. It's like, you know, there was
10:34
that glimmer of, I suppose, desperate hope that everybody
10:39
had that it might, this might turn out for the better.
10:42
It might be the end of the Glazers.
10:43
And I think it's been quite the opposite, sadly.
10:46
So you know. And just just to ask Steve,
10:48
where, where did you stand on it?
10:49
You know, at the time, like you said, I think there was
10:51
obviously a lot of talk within the fan base, Qatar or any else.
10:55
We won't go down that route, but obviously we didn't have a say
10:57
in what happened there when obviously Jim did the deal with
11:01
the Glazers, kind of, yeah. What was your thinking at the
11:03
time? Did you see a glimmer of hope
11:05
and think this might live somewhere?
11:07
It's quite weird actually, because I was on a space early
11:11
and there was spaces where I don't, I mean, they probably
11:13
still are just on, I don't have time, you know, as much time as
11:16
I did have to, to be able to sit in and listen and and chat on
11:20
things like that. But I do think there are, you
11:23
know, they're a great source of, of people communicating.
11:27
I think they're quite, quite a cool thing.
11:30
But then it was always all everybody wanted to do was nail
11:34
me down to one must or the other.
11:37
And it was all I ever said was a first and foremost it is a full
11:43
sale. What we are looking for is a
11:45
full sale. The Glazers to sell all those
11:48
shares of the football club to somebody else That that that was
11:52
what we was after. And I did say at the time that,
11:56
you know, I think what people are not everybody's gone either
12:00
Qatar or Radcliffe, but what people aren't considering him
12:05
with this, the main fight to was the Glazers and the greed of the
12:08
Glazers. And it, you know, sadly it was
12:10
that greed that kept him at the football club.
12:13
I think the Qataris, if what were read to believe is, is
12:18
factual, that the Qataris were very, very close valuation wise.
12:23
But you know, why that didn't get over the line, I do not
12:25
know. But you know, we are where we
12:28
are now. And but to score 1, I think if
12:31
if anything, I feel like we've gone backwards.
12:34
Steve, like on that point of like almost like you're either
12:37
Qatar or or Jim, like how polarising was that for like
12:41
you're like group like in terms of whether it is like the play,
12:45
you know, the fans that you go with like match day, like you go
12:48
to the pub because like for us it was really heated.
12:52
Our podcast great. Ashley, you might as well expose
12:55
yourself that you were on the part any us, Yeah.
12:58
I'm absolutely happy to say when it was a case of like, you got
13:01
to put, you know, your flag to either Qatar or any us.
13:04
I said any us for all sorts of reasons, you know, mainly, you
13:08
know, to do with the fact that, you know, Jim is from
13:11
Manchester. Like I know there's a whole
13:13
Chelsea side, but you know, he he lived in London.
13:16
He also said like, and I guess this is what you're going to
13:19
probably talk about. Steve is like the PR that he was
13:21
coming with even before he actually looked to invest money.
13:26
Seems sensible to me. You know, he he questioned the
13:29
way the Glazers operated, the way they were just like spending
13:33
ridiculous money on transfers, but like with no plan, you know,
13:38
and this is the thing, right? You know, talk is cheap.
13:40
So once he's had the hot seat, we've seen his actions
13:44
completely change, right? Because if I had known, for
13:46
example, he's going to race ticket prices, you know, cut,
13:51
you know, free lunches and like, you know, cut the Christmas
13:55
gifts that they were given out, I wouldn't have charity funding.
13:58
Yeah. Charity funding for the, you
14:00
know, former players Association, 40 grand.
14:03
You know, absolutely no way would I would I have signed up
14:06
for that. I think, I think what's been bad
14:09
is we had all, we had all the flannel, which I think is where
14:14
we're at with it. We were sold down the road with
14:16
what come out of his mouth. But again, I think a lot of that
14:19
was desperation for something good to happen.
14:22
You know, everybody was just so, so pissed off with it that, you
14:26
know, it's just for Christ's sakes, you know, let's just
14:29
let's start a fresh year. And he, you know, he used all
14:31
the the keywords that got people giddy and, you know, I fell for
14:35
it. And I think we all did at that
14:37
time. Yet it was, I think after we'd
14:41
done the last protest we did I think was Arsenal.
14:44
Arsenal, yeah, he did the interview the next day, didn't
14:46
he? I remember.
14:47
After. The overload.
14:48
Together an interview with Gary Neville and then the day after
14:51
that he announced his new. Stadium.
14:53
New stadium, he's like, OK. I like how you did air quotes.
14:57
I think the, the, the interview we did with Gary Neville, I
15:00
think his true colours came out then a little bit more and I
15:02
think it was rushed. You know, that was a panic
15:06
interview for me personally. I mean, he was the same stuff he
15:09
did with Andy Mitten when, Yeah, now he's talking about why, why
15:13
should Man United fans be paying less than Fallen?
15:16
It's ridiculous. Comment Absolutely ridiculous.
15:19
What planet do you live on? And it, you know, it's and I
15:22
think the penny started dropping a little bit with people
15:25
certainly much going funds because I believe, well, staff,
15:29
OK, there may be money squandered.
15:32
The Glazers probably weren't keeping a tight ship.
15:35
But then, you know, you look at the £66, I did some rough
15:40
calculations and the damage that did for the back end of that
15:45
season and bear in mind they couldn't give those tickets
15:47
away. 66 quid. I know we've gone up a little
15:50
bit more. No, but they struggled selling
15:52
them. Then all of a sudden the prices
15:54
went back down because the away fund, the away allocation and
15:57
some of it had been sent back. So there's some extra tickets
16:00
like, come on, man, you know, you're not bloody idiots.
16:04
And you think, OK, over the space, I think there was 12 or
16:07
13 games minus season ticket holders, minus away funds
16:11
because these are the ticket. And it might have sort of
16:15
recouped a couple of Andre Grand over then games.
16:18
And, you know, you just think, really the optics are what
16:21
you're doing. Exactly, Yeah.
16:24
I work in sales and marketing, and what you don't do is take a
16:27
ship product, give it a premium prize with a promise that, well,
16:33
if you start paying this premium prize, what I'll do with the
16:36
money you're giving me is I'll make it better.
16:39
It's laughable, but that's exactly what he was trying to
16:41
do, and it's fixed. Fix what's happening on the
16:43
field first. You know, one of the worst
16:46
comments from that interview with Gary Neville and like, like
16:49
big red flag started going in my head was he was saying to
16:53
Neville about like whether it's free cost cutting or increasing
16:56
ticket prices, this is all going to go back into transfer fees.
16:59
And I'm thinking to your point, a few 100 grand that's going to
17:03
that's not going to touch the surface.
17:05
And also, like, like you said, optically, it was horrendous
17:10
time to be doing all this because the team were performing
17:13
utterly. But you know, the there's no
17:16
words, right? Like you've been a supporter
17:19
longer than me. Like that's some of the worst
17:22
stats that the club has ever had, right, in terms of where we
17:26
finished and, you know, league seasons.
17:29
So like to do it at that particular point in time, it's
17:32
like they just, well, they don't know how to read the room even
17:36
now, but like. It was a rush.
17:37
It was a rush job, like you said, Steve, because if we if
17:40
we, if we rewind the clock to that point, obviously last
17:44
season was an absolute disaster, right?
17:46
10 hard got set. October, November, obviously
17:48
Reuben came in, results didn't really pick up.
17:50
Then I remember that Arsenal protest.
17:52
I was there. Beautiful day, massive numbers,
17:56
absolutely huge numbers, really good momentum, it felt like.
18:00
And then you kind of get home and you're thinking, all right,
18:02
we can start to build something and then you bang, you know,
18:05
overlap into view with Nevil and Ratcliffe and obviously the new
18:09
stadium plan. So it was definitely they put
18:11
that out to try and squash, squash the momentum, right
18:14
isn't. That how they wanted to, they
18:15
wanted to put the fire out that we'd started.
18:17
It was, it was, you know, it was, it was panic stations and
18:22
you know, there's the stuff like if we hadn't made these changes
18:26
the club would have run out of money at Chris.
18:27
Absolute rubbish, yeah. Do you know what I mean?
18:30
Come on, you know we're not bloody idiots.
18:31
I mean, I'm, I'm not financial guru, but when you're going to
18:35
spend a billion and a half quid on something, you do your due
18:38
diligence and you know whether what you're putting your money
18:41
into is going to run out of you know, he's going to stop season
18:44
trading. It sounds, it sounds farcical,
18:47
but you know, you're right. It was all just a big, big push.
18:51
But the problem is, is you know, that they, I think, and I think
18:55
we've, we've certainly come across this, is that we, we do
19:00
battle as far as protesting is concerned, we battle our own fan
19:03
base half the time. I just want to touch on earlier
19:08
in this current season, so I can't remember exactly.
19:10
You have to like remind me, but I know you 1958 were kind of
19:14
like, you know, planning to get the protest going for this
19:16
season. And then I believe you sent out
19:18
the survey before the season started to get a feeling of, you
19:22
know, where do people stand on the current ownership.
19:24
Obviously this is post 3 pretty good signings in M, BMO, Kunya
19:29
and Chesco. So obviously we know what social
19:32
media is like is as well especially yeah, talk to us
19:35
about that in terms of like how you try to kind of get things
19:37
going and then almost the reaction to the survey, I think
19:40
you kind of put things on hold. Is that fair?
19:43
Yeah, yeah, 100%. I mean, the we did the survey
19:48
because of the bike lash we got for during to question Radcliffe
19:56
sort of intent to motives and we've quite taken a bite with it
20:00
to be fair. It was like, OK, so as I said,
20:04
you know, we've got over 90 odd thousand members.
20:06
So we put a survey out and it it was quite split bought it.
20:10
It did tip towards we've got to give them time, you know,
20:15
domestic Blazers like blah, blah, blah.
20:18
And I kind of I do and don't understand it, but you've got
20:23
to. You know, we represent these
20:26
people, like it or not, they didn't, you know, and I don't
20:29
mean that in a, in a derogatory way, but you know, the, these
20:33
are the people we represent and you've got to listen.
20:37
And it was hard for me because, you know, for me it was the
20:42
right thing to do. But we held off.
20:45
Things gradually went from bad to worse and then even worse.
20:51
And he just kept going down and down.
20:53
Every game you come away and you think, right, you can't get any
20:55
worse. But yeah, Radcliffe seems to
20:58
seems to have found a way to make it worse.
21:01
And that and that's more, you know, predominantly the people
21:06
that we represent are much going fans predominantly.
21:09
And, you know, away fans getting sanctioned spot cheques on away
21:14
games. No.
21:15
Yeah, it just, you know, it all feels and then little are
21:18
getting tickets that we was told it was Adidas and believe you
21:22
me, wasn't they weren't Adidas tickets at all.
21:25
You know, and it's just it seems that the football's been dire.
21:31
But then every little Ave or every turning they could take,
21:36
it was a kick in the teeth to match going fans, whether it was
21:40
season ticket holders or members, you know that they
21:42
tiered prices for members. You've got your AB and C tier,
21:46
TC being the cheapest and there was 2 They they put two teams in
21:50
that tier. So there's only two games out
21:52
this season that they deemed, you know, that that were that
21:55
were sort of a category three, if you will, or however you want
21:59
to turn it, you know, and it was not being able for me to.
22:03
I mean, I've got we've got two season tickets, myself and my
22:07
wife and, you know, not just being to just transfer my ticket
22:12
to my lad, because if I can't make a game and then, you know,
22:16
everything's just, you know, we've gone from 16 to 17 to 18
22:21
games. You must attend or, you know,
22:23
get that kind of understand. No, nobody wants an empty seat.
22:27
But then who was a season ticket holders like, Oh, I can't get
22:30
there this week. Do you know what?
22:31
I'll just leave it empty. Do you know what, Steve, though,
22:34
on things like that, if the sentiments that have been coming
22:38
from any us and Jim Radcliffe over the last two years was
22:41
about fan culture and about the club, I would half accept it,
22:46
right? You're kind of saying it
22:47
yourself, right? Because you want a bum on the
22:49
sea, ideally a proper United fan, right?
22:52
But that's the problem. And they've just sucked the life
22:56
and the goodwill and the atmosphere, not just out of like
23:00
the fans, but also, you know, within staff.
23:03
You know, you've heard all sorts of stories about what they've
23:06
what they've been doing over the last two years and that and
23:08
that's the issue, right? Like we know that all these
23:11
rules about the season tickets, whether it's home or away, it's
23:16
all to just suck more money out of us, even though they're the
23:19
ones who are like, you know, haemorrhaging the money with
23:22
like the sacking and the compensation of 10 hog.
23:25
You know, Reubens cost like probably what, 20 odd million
23:28
because, you know, we paid a fee to get him and his staff.
23:32
Now we're paying compensation after that.
23:34
So all these little savings that they've made, yeah.
23:36
Dan Ashworth yeah, all these savings that they've made like
23:40
these, like couple 100 grand, it's all gone out of the water
23:43
anyway. It's gone, it's gone and more on
23:46
top. More.
23:46
Yeah, yeah. So we've theoretically we should
23:50
know of run. If what Jim was saying was
23:51
correct about the running out of money malarkey, then we should
23:55
have run out of money quite a few weeks ago.
23:57
You would have thought certainly when Ruben got his pay off.
24:01
But you know, again, with that it's it's questionable.
24:04
You know, you've got Barada as Aceo who's never been a CEO and
24:09
I've got friends. I've got like real die hard city
24:11
from mates and they've, you know, at the time I think a lot
24:16
of United funds were like, you know, Oh my God, we took the
24:20
best from. Society, yeah.
24:22
Yeah, and he said you know what, you are more than welcome to.
24:26
Honestly, he does not toss about much going funds.
24:31
It's all about the commercial side.
24:33
Which is proven in his in his actions.
24:35
I heard at Man City that's what he did.
24:37
Like the ticket prices have continuously gone up and you
24:41
know, that's why some of the songs even that we have right,
24:44
empty hat, etcetera, is to do with the fact that actually for
24:47
the match day going fan, like if you want to take, you know, a
24:50
couple of kids and yourself, it actually cost quite a bit and
24:54
like not everyone can afford it. So yeah, those murmurings and
24:57
like rumours were like they're Free City fans and like, yeah,
25:00
he's he's been treated as we had and done it, our old traffic, no
25:04
doubt with the help of Jim, right.
25:05
Because whatever Jim says, Omar just nods and does it.
25:09
I call him a puppet. Don't know.
25:10
As in, he'll do whatever Jim tells.
25:12
And that's what that's what Jim's surrounding himself with,
25:16
you know, Jason Wilcox, whoever's decision.
25:18
And apparently the falling out with Don Ashworth was because he
25:22
didn't see Reuben as the right fit.
25:25
Presto, a man who knows his job. Yeah, because he's 2 that don't.
25:29
And he was right and got sighted.
25:31
And these two clones, him and Wilcox are still in a job.
25:34
And he's just like, OK, so what's to say that the next
25:38
one's not going to be nobody's got any confidence in in
25:41
anything they do. And you know, you, you bring in
25:44
Amory and who plays a system that we've got absolutely never
25:49
done before. Granted, players can learn and
25:51
duh, duh, duh. But then we haven't got the
25:54
players in the right positions. Then you've got the likes.
25:57
I mean for me two of our probably when you use the word
26:02
best but better players it would have been in Bruno and Ahmad in
26:06
the ball playing out position to accommodate this egomaniac who
26:10
won't change or do anything. Great guide, lovely guide.
26:13
Lovely in front of a camera. You know, it's being nice to the
26:17
press, doesn't doesn't have a nice smile, doesn't win football
26:21
games, does it? And again, on the point of Jim
26:24
Ratcliffe, like that interview, I think it was the Gary Neville
26:28
one, when obviously the question of like, how do you think
26:30
Reuben's doing? He has the audacity to be like,
26:34
he's doing a superb job or whatever word he used, right?
26:36
It was like he was doing a great job.
26:38
It's like at the time I think we were mid table and like we just
26:41
scraped through in the Europe and it's like, who are you
26:44
kidding? Like he's taking the fans for a
26:46
ride. This podcast is sponsored by Go
26:50
Play Sports, the brand new mobile app changing the Game for
26:53
grassroots. Whether it's Sunday league or
26:56
five aside, Go Play Sports makes it easy to track attendance,
27:00
manage teams and cut out the manual admin.
27:02
No more analyst group chats, no more chasing payments.
27:05
Just turn up and play Go Play Sports.
27:09
Download now from your App Store.
27:12
Steve, I just wanted to quickly ask a question about the survey
27:17
that, you know, when you decided to hold back for a bit, did you
27:20
have to be a member to respond to that survey or could anyone
27:23
respond to that survey? Not without being a member.
27:25
And we also know the the split of our members as in how many a
27:31
season ticket holders much Because you know, again, why do
27:37
a survey? It's like like the club doing a
27:40
survey on the stadium and sending it out to anybody.
27:45
Any Tom dickenary, you know, it's you know, the much going
27:48
fans, great to watch on TV, you know, and I've got no issue.
27:52
I mean, I I was with guys from from India on Saturday.
27:57
I've got some good friends from India.
27:59
But yeah, I was very fortunate myself.
28:01
I'm a lad. We went over to India with only
28:03
gun to soul shy when he went for the three nights over though.
28:07
Wow. And we were kind of all his
28:09
opening up. Dad and Lad and I were, you
28:11
know, we did AQ and a with Andy mate and a fantastic time.
28:15
We've stayed, you know, there's some lads from Poon, they was
28:18
over and you know, and I'll just get what's up.
28:22
Steve. We're here.
28:23
We're here for City, same place, same time.
28:25
Do you know what I mean? And it's.
28:26
Yeah, the worldwide fund base is is fantastic.
28:30
Do you, do you have a gauge of how many you know, season ticket
28:34
holders you have within your membership?
28:36
And you just answered that question.
28:37
I think you do right. Which providing the information,
28:40
it's volunteered information, so provided we don't ask for
28:43
membership numbers or nothing like that.
28:44
Yes, yeah, yeah. So providing the information we
28:47
got is accurate and I, I can't see from it, you know, why it
28:51
wouldn't be then you know, with a rough idea what the split is.
28:55
Nobody's ever submitted any information.
28:56
It's just a yes, no Q&A and you know where'd you sit?
29:01
Well, you know, worry you as a fun type of things.
29:03
OK, that's good. Yeah.
29:04
And what's the rough number like?
29:06
How many do you have in terms of season ticket holders?
29:08
I think there is. I'll find out.
29:12
I don't actually know what the exact figure is.
29:15
I'll definitely find out for you.
29:17
Now that's interesting to me because obviously we want to
29:20
understand, you know, what your plans are, what your aims are.
29:23
But I've always thought like I'll be great obviously to know
29:26
who actually is a season ticket holder because you know, we'll
29:30
touch on it in terms of in stadium protest.
29:32
But obviously being able to coordinate in it is difficult.
29:35
And obviously social media, there's so much noise out there.
29:38
And as much as we value fans from all over, I'm sorry, but
29:41
the match game fans, we spend the £1000 on the season ticket,
29:44
we spend the money on the travel.
29:46
We, we, we buy every home cup game so we can apply for a ways.
29:50
So I do feel like, you know, that much go in fan base almost.
29:54
If we could coordinate them somehow, it would be really
29:57
powerful. You know, even if it is 20,000
29:59
out of 70,000, if we if we, for example, decided that we want to
30:04
make a show in the stadium and say that 20,000, we're going to
30:07
turn up 10 minutes late. I know it happens anyway because
30:10
the pubs get busy and this turnstiles get busy, but is that
30:13
something that's ever been thought about discussed within
30:15
the 58? Yeah, we did.
30:19
We did a sitting protest a couple of years ago.
30:22
But I mean that that took some coordination.
30:25
It was the I think it was the second game of the season, might
30:28
have been Forest. Was it not?
30:30
Yeah, I was going to say forest, I think.
30:32
Yeah. Yeah, and the first game of the
30:33
season was Wolves and then we had Spurs away we had.
30:38
Saturday wasn't it? I think, yeah.
30:40
We'd had something like 50,000 leaflets printed with an army of
30:45
fans at the Wolves game handing leaflets.
30:49
So but it it can get quite, I mean, I've always said 10% of
30:55
the much going fan base will protest and how you convert the
31:00
other 90% I do not know. You know, that's kind of a
31:05
Miller. I don't know how bad he's got to
31:07
be before others were, you know, we always get between say 33 and
31:16
7000 wards of protest. The last one we did GMP, they
31:20
estimated that at about 5000 people.
31:24
It obviously gets more as the you get nearer the stadium
31:27
because there's just a that, that natural backlog of people
31:30
behind you. Optically it's, it's a bigger,
31:34
it's a bigger head of numbers, but you know, trying to get
31:37
through to that. So the rest is is I don't know
31:43
sometimes you. It's a challenge you're trying
31:45
to solve, isn't it? I guess you know.
31:47
When we've done protest and gone round the ground, there are
31:50
people generally bewildered what you're doing honestly.
31:55
And you know we did. I don't know if you saw when we
31:57
did, it was only a small protest for the kit launch again a year
32:01
or so ago. Think I vaguely remember this.
32:05
And there was about 20-30. It was there, but it went
32:08
absolutely crazy media wise, right?
32:12
It was all over the world. I was, you know, the, the, the
32:15
news picked up. It's quite funny because I think
32:17
it was deadline day and Sky Sports were due to be filming
32:20
outside, but the, the club dragged them inside and there
32:24
was ended up they ended up filmed filming behind a pretend
32:28
Old Trafford on a green screen. It was quite chronicle.
32:32
So, Steve, on that point, actually in terms of like we
32:35
don't know what the best solution is, like what ideas
32:39
have been discussed, just out of interest, just to get an insight
32:42
of like, you know, what happens within the group, like what kind
32:45
of things were suggested. Crikey, Also everything.
32:49
Whatever you can come. Anything and everything, yeah.
32:52
Can I make a suggestion in terms of the 10% number that are
32:55
willing to protest? Like, you know, we all know
32:59
United seasons are cold as people that go to the games and
33:02
it's fair to say that vast majority of them surely aren't
33:06
happy with the Glazer ownership. I'm not talking process.
33:09
I'm just talking generally in terms of, you know, what we've
33:12
seen over the last 20. You would think, right?
33:13
I'd like to think it's more 7590%, but let's just be
33:17
conservative and say it's 50%. So if we, if we assume that that
33:21
the majority of the fan base aren't happy with the with the
33:24
ownership, yeah, if there was some way to coordinate and I, I
33:28
take your point about having to do it with Flyers and word of
33:30
mouth, like that's just who's got time for that on top of a
33:33
job and family like you said, Steve.
33:35
But if we could through technology bring together season
33:39
ticket holders, whether, you know, like you said, it's 1958
33:42
memberships and you know, you can tick whether you're a season
33:45
ticket holder. If we can then through digital
33:47
means collect season ticket holders together.
33:50
Like I said, if it's 20,000, great, even if it's 10,000.
33:54
And then if we decide collectively we want to protest
33:57
in the stadium, you know, doing that digitally surely is more
34:00
feasible than, you know, trying to do it physically.
34:03
I guess like, where'd you stand on that?
34:05
It'd definitely be easier and more cost effective.
34:08
I mean, we got a bit held with the beliefless we had done.
34:12
As an example, a mate of mine owns his own printing company.
34:15
So, you know, we, we paid costs for that.
34:17
It would save a whole heap on manpower.
34:20
Yeah, but it still also needs money and coordination and
34:25
monitoring and, you know, somebody.
34:28
There's an amount of technology needed, though that ain't my
34:31
fault. I.
34:32
Just to let you know, Steve, we, we, we work in technology.
34:34
So this is where I would actually love to help like.
34:38
Because I don't. No, no, but like, yeah, if we
34:41
can bring a decent number of us together, then doing this
34:45
through digital means and look like social media, like we've
34:48
said, we value all United fans. This is not about tearing us in
34:52
some, you know, elite category. But we, like I said, we spend
34:56
our hard earned money. We go week in, week out.
34:59
We were there. I was there at the shit game
35:00
against Brighton. Wasted 4 hours of my Sunday to
35:04
watch that shit. But like, this is where I get
35:06
frustrated because, you know, social media, those 3 signings
35:10
in the summer probably kept half of our global fan base quiet
35:14
because they're excited about the new signings.
35:17
But any red who's worth their salt knows this ownership is
35:22
cancerous, right? And we wouldn't get swayed.
35:25
Yes, we all get excited like we're buzzing off the win on the
35:27
weekend. But long term, we know this is,
35:30
you know, we might do all right. We might get in the top 4 but
35:33
you know, we want to be up there competing and not having cash
35:37
drained from our football club, right?
35:39
So This is why I do think there's something to look at in
35:43
terms of how we utilise technology, so I'd love to help.
35:46
Yeah, we'll have a conversation, but I.
35:48
Was going to say to to both Steve's like Saturday was
35:51
incredible and let's hope you know, Carrot can carry on.
35:55
But yeah, that protest at Fulham, just please make sure it
36:00
happens. It always has been the numbers
36:03
that attend a protest is a barometer for what we can do
36:06
next. And if there's 5000 people turn
36:09
up, then you know talk of a boycott is just a waste of
36:12
breath. It's hot.
36:13
Oh what? What difference is 5000 people
36:15
staying out of all traffic going to make?
36:17
Optically? You wouldn't even know they
36:19
weren't done. Yeah, a lot of people criticise
36:21
them and they say, oh, what, what's so March going to do and
36:23
all this. But you can correct me if I'm
36:25
wrong, Steve, for you guys, that's kind of like you're
36:27
building momentum. You want to build on that and
36:30
then, you know, create something further.
36:32
But people are just looking at that on isolation and saying,
36:35
oh, what's that going to do? Is that fair?
36:37
Like your aim is to build, but you keep getting these
36:39
roadblocks, whether it's Ratcliffe's overlap interview or
36:42
these stadium plans. Is that how you see it?
36:46
It was comical because somebody sent to me that when we
36:48
announced our protest, he came up on the you know, the Sky
36:53
News, the ticker news thing as he scrolls up and it was 1958
36:59
announced protest for start of the season.
37:02
Next one Man United put a bigger bidding for Cesco, and it's like
37:06
God you. Know.
37:08
They know what they're doing, don't they?
37:10
You know, and that does it does sway people and you know,
37:13
listen, I get that people have got that.
37:18
There are different levels of, I suppose, emotional attachment to
37:22
any football club. And you know, I, I would never
37:27
criticise somebody for not protesting if they've got, you
37:30
know, if they're here as a one off or whatever the reason or
37:33
it's just, it's not for me to criticise, but it's also not for
37:39
others to criticise what we're doing, I don't believe.
37:43
No, I agree. We we've, we've blocked the
37:46
Munich tunnel when we did the, IT was Villa when we marched
37:51
from town that that was a mistake.
37:54
We're not doing that again. Key.
37:57
Steps, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:00
Is we came all the way from the Nags Head and it was, it was a,
38:04
it was a great turn out. And then we stopped in the
38:08
Munich tunnel and we should have been in the, I think it was at
38:10
the time, 18 minutes for 18 years.
38:14
And we ended up that one of the lads with those who was, who was
38:18
in the tunnel blocking a got punched in the face by another
38:22
United fan because he couldn't get past to get into the ground
38:25
for kick off. That is what you're up against.
38:28
It's tough. There's no magic bullet.
38:29
I think that's why, you know, it's not been solved.
38:31
And This is why I know there's obviously there's multiple
38:34
podcasts, there's multiple channels and you know, we've
38:36
talked about trying to unify the voice, but I just think it's got
38:39
to be the match going fans that if we can unify ourselves a
38:43
little bit more, then, you know, those wider groups, they can
38:48
come together or they don't come together.
38:49
Ultimately, I I think we have more power as much going fans.
38:53
Yeah. I mean we're working, we're
38:56
currently working on sort of a, a unity charter, if you will
39:02
within groups, influential groups to do with much going
39:08
funds. Yeah.
39:09
And that's been, you know, again, a work in progress that
39:13
that's gone on and on and on and on.
39:17
No, we're working in conjunction with the FSA with that.
39:22
So, you know, it's difficult to balance, say, two groups have
39:25
got different views for you to come together.
39:28
There's got to be some give and take.
39:30
Do you know what I mean? And it's, it's deciding who
39:32
gives and which bit you want to give and which bit your take.
39:35
Do you know what I mean? It's the the difficult, the
39:38
quite, quite fragile subject to to sort of navigate Rome.
39:42
But I think I think we're at the end with that and we've we've
39:46
done a lot of work with the FSA and you know, as a result of
39:49
that, we made some very, very good contacts and and no friends
39:53
within just every single Premier League group that the result
39:57
though, you know, whether that's Liverpool, Man City, you know,
40:01
I've I've been out for drinks over Christmas with the lads at
40:04
in the 1890. I was getting mixed up 1894.
40:07
I believe that's the city's equivalent to what we do want to
40:12
you who's. One of the main guys there and
40:15
when you when you speak to like minded much going fans, most
40:19
clubs have got the same issues. Yeah.
40:22
What they've not got is the mounting of debt that's
40:25
crippling us moving forward. That, that, that there's a big
40:28
difference. Yeah.
40:30
But you know, Andy is West Ham, a very influential guy at West
40:33
Ham. They're going through absolute,
40:35
absolute hell down there. And it's, you know, it's it's
40:39
greed. Greed is consuming football and
40:44
if it doesn't stop, there won't be football, there certainly
40:47
won't be football that I'll be interested going to.
40:49
You know the sterile I, I have seen through the club.
40:53
So this is not just something made-up where they they are
40:56
looking at or they've looked into the technology of being
41:00
able to be a virtual fan. Yeah.
41:03
So there'll be fans planted with microphones and you can be that
41:07
fun. Yeah.
41:08
Quieter that I'd work in the Stratford and I don't know.
41:11
We actually had Sakira McGuire. He's the football finance guy.
41:15
You would have seen him Sky Sports and BBC.
41:17
We had him on the podcast, you know, a month or two ago when
41:21
those tweets came out from by the Saudi guy and he and he
41:24
sparked some rumours about takeover.
41:27
I think he he put a tweet out about the Glazers.
41:29
So it was just coincidental time and that he'd come on the pod.
41:32
And, you know, we obviously spoke to him about what's the
41:35
appetite from the Glazers to sell.
41:37
And he mentioned there's a lot of talk within current Premier
41:40
League owners about the next step up in valuation for
41:43
football clubs is that is when people can start, you know,
41:47
through VR headsets, start attending games virtually and
41:51
obviously the clubs can start charging tickets.
41:54
And that's the big, the next big jump up in valuation.
41:57
So he thinks the Glazers are hanging around for that.
42:00
And obviously that's probably 5 plus years away.
42:04
But I mean, we thought what you're also doing, though, is,
42:07
is you're effectively just building your own TV channel.
42:11
Yeah. And you know that a club with
42:15
the whatever the number is in billions of fans, you know the
42:20
Blazers must be creaming themselves with the thought of
42:22
that is you know every single one of them pays something as
42:26
opposed to the Premier League getting paid.
42:31
Yeah, and be redistributing and. Then being redistributed, well,
42:35
why can't we have that ourselves?
42:37
Because we're the biggest followed football club or one of
42:40
the biggest followed football clubs in the world.
42:41
So it's but for me, my going back to protesting is I think my
42:47
train of thought, no, is to push Radcliffe, he said.
42:52
He will not take the abuse that the Glazers have got.
42:55
And to me that was like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:59
Egg rug to a ball like. I was going to say, especially
43:02
what they did to him at Fulham. I think the Glazers can't
43:05
survive without Radcliffe and unless Radcliffe's got a plan,
43:09
which I just don't see it as in what you're going to find 32,
43:14
not, you know, when you quote £2 billion for a football stadium,
43:18
it's going to cost you 3 billion plus.
43:21
It's never. Too.
43:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Agreed.
43:24
The other thing with Ratcliffe is like his his his core
43:27
business in EOS, they've not had the best year.
43:29
He started to exit other sporting ventures.
43:31
He's trying to sell nice. He's cut the price of nice.
43:34
Yeah, yeah, he's dropped that. So like I think you mentioned it
43:37
on message, Steve, you know, the perfect storm could be coming,
43:40
but it's that's where the fan pressure needs to be applied
43:43
from our side, right as part of that storm.
43:45
And I guess that's where obviously the Fulham protest
43:48
comes into it. So I guess what's your message
43:50
to United fans obviously around that protest?
43:52
If they're going to the game, I'm sure obviously you know, you
43:55
want them to be part of that protest, but how can people get
43:57
behind it? Yeah, I mean, there'll be
44:00
another another press release going out this week at some
44:03
point and then we'll probably leave the actual protest details
44:08
to the week after. So the week run up to the
44:11
protest because people just forget all.
44:14
You know, you do need to be mindful of people do have plans
44:18
and etcetera. So if you leave it a little bit
44:21
later, but again, you know that the media in general is all over
44:26
it, which is great for us. Yeah, you certainly with
44:30
mainstream media and social media.
44:34
I hope somebody can be at Old Trafford and say they didn't
44:36
know there was a protest. Is is quite beyond me whether
44:41
they choose to not be involved again, that's absolutely fine.
44:43
But I think it's the the message is getting out a lot harder.
44:48
You know, there was some big, the guy's name, Sully's name is
44:53
quite a big account on social media.
44:55
And they, they reached out to me about we want to put this
44:59
statement together. And there was quite a big
45:01
collective. And at one point, United is
45:04
Broken was trending at #5 in the UK.
45:07
Well, that's got to be sustained.
45:08
What happens is, is that you do something like that and then we
45:11
win the Manchester Derby. All that's forgotten about.
45:14
Yeah, exactly. You've then got to come back to
45:16
it now. It's like, right, OK, the
45:17
euphoria of that game's gone. Let's get back to what we're
45:20
doing now. We'll probably go and beat
45:22
Arsenal at the weekend, but you know.
45:27
No, that's the big message from like certainly from me, even to
45:30
our listeners and viewers, is that if you're a Manchester
45:32
United supporter and you're going to the game against
45:35
Fulham, like regardless of like the result against Arsenal,
45:39
please attend that protest. And like, yeah, whatever survey
45:43
is done, Steve, about like potentially not having the
45:46
protest from let's kick it off, ignore it and protest.
45:52
Trust me, there's not a survey being done good that can
45:54
warranty. Because that process needs to
45:56
happen. Like it doesn't 100.
45:58
Percent, you know, because The thing is and like, look, we're
46:00
in this cycle of like not winning the league for 13 years
46:03
and like obviously what the Glazers were doing before, even
46:06
when Sir Alex was still there, We have to come together as much
46:10
as we can as a fan group and do these steps like, you know,
46:15
protesting at Fulham. And look, Michael Carrick,
46:17
hopefully he gets the boys unsung and like they go and win
46:21
the next 16 games. But we can still protest and get
46:24
these owners kicked out. And like that is the only way
46:28
that we're going to get our club back because like you said
46:30
earlier, we're haemorrhaged with that.
46:32
They're going to get more lanes out, especially if they get the
46:35
stadium. And yet like we could
46:37
potentially finance it. But why?
46:39
Why should we finance, right? Like, it should be our club, you
46:43
know, we should be the ones who, you know, have a mission to
46:47
like, you know, get this club back from the Glazers.
46:49
It's going to be hard. And that's the thing, right?
46:51
Like, you got to be in it for the long run and that's the
46:54
message to the fans. Yeah, absolutely.
46:56
I think we'll wrap it up there, Steve.
46:57
We will get these owners out. I'm confident.
47:00
Thanks for tuning into this episode, and we'll catch you on
47:03
the next one.