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#1 Buzz · Heavyweight

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Yell from Gimblet Media. This is Jonathan Goldstein, your old pal.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Is that is that was called Gimblet Gimblet Media.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: That's correct. It sounds like giblets the inside of a chicken,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: like all the innerds. Well, everybody loves giblets. You Oh shit,
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: they're my kids.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Hey guys, I'm up here.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Do you know what my new podcast is about. I know,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. Each week I travel
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: into people's pasts to help them repair something that's been
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: troubling them. M hm. I'm sort of like a therapist.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: Like a therapist.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: So yeah, do you find out? Do you find that funny?
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: I just think supportive.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: That's the laughter of support.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I think it's great.
• 0:50
  Speaker 5: I think it's great.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Do you have any questions for me about what my
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: show is and what it's going to be?
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Like, what's the name of your show? What's the name
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: of your show?
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: Yes, we're gonna go now, but Johnson's just about tell
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: me the name of his new show.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: As soon as he tells me, I'm going to bang
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: down on him in five.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: Remember that, yes, to hang.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Up the phone on each other. Okay, ready, Yes, the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: name of the show is Heavyweight Heavyweight, You get It?
• 1:18
  Speaker 6: Two one.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Hello. Hello from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: is Heavyweight Today's episode Buzz.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Hello, Hey Dad, Hi Johnny.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Hey, how you doing good? You good good good? Yum
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: tip SAMEA.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: What's that meaning?
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. This is my father Buzz. I'm calling
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: him at his home in Montreal. And the reason we're
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: talking crazy talk is because it's young Kipper the Jewish
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: day of Atonement, which seems as good a day as
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: any to talk with him about forgiveness. So I wanted to.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you something and I just wanted
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: to gauge your interest. YEA, how would you feel about
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: paying your brother Sheldon a visit?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I have no feelings by I'm not really interested.
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: You're not.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: My father Buzz is eighty and his brother, Sheldon, his
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: only sibling, is eighty five, and for the past forty
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: years they've pretty much been on the outs. My father
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: lives in Montreal and Sheldon lives in Florida, and the
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: last time they saw each other over twenty years ago
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: was at their mother's funeral when they had a fight
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: over the details of the arrangements. Since then, they've hardly spoken.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: It worries me because there's not a lot of time left,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: and I don't want my father to have regrets. When
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the subject of his brother comes up, as it often
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: has over the years, my father feels competing things. He
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: grows angry or defensive, but other times he'll become sad
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: and remorseful. And it's the sorrow and the remorse that
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I like best, because it's these feelings that I believe
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: speak to his better self, the self I want to encourage.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that you're not jumping at the idea,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: but I'm a little surprised that yours against the idea.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, time's passed. He hasn't shown much interest, so I'm
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: respecting that and I leave alone.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: What he did do was he he called you on
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: your eightieth birthday not so long ago, and you.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Felt good about it to him on his eightieth birthday.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: This kind of tit for tat accounting is what always
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: gets in the way. There's been a competition between the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: brothers since I was a kid. I remember how in
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: my grandmother's small New York kitchen, Sheldon and Buzz got
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: into an argument about who could do the most push ups,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: and the next thing I knew, my father was pulling
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: off his shirt and dropping to the kitchen floor in
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: his undershirt. My mother, not used to seeing the side
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: of him, stood over my father, flapping a dishtowel hysterically
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: while begging him to the point of tears to please stop.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Now you go, my father said, rising from the floor
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: when he was done. But Sheldon shook his head with
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: a smile. It was like he didn't even think my
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: father was worth the effort.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: You know what it is at this point with him,
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what it is. I don't think it's
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: even anger. He's past anger, and he's passed any feelings
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: of animosity. He's passed that. He just doesn't care. Yeah,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: you know, that's apathy. I mean, sometimes at least hate
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: or love their emotions. Apathy is nothing. Yeah, you know what.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Johnny as a child, even when I was ten, when
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I was nine, and I was crazy about him. We
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: had a great you know, I loved him. He was
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: the older brother.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: He was hello, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm listening.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know. I just looked up to him, and
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: he had older friends. Sometimes he'd take me along with
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: him and he was good, Hey, somebody trying to somebody
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: trying to call here, binging me here.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Don't you see, Buzz? It's father time? Who is bringing
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: you here? And Buzz loses track of time. Air Conditioners
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: remain boxed all through July, and expired coupons from the
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: mid nineties make plump his wallet, so I worry he'll
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: put off reaching out to Sheldon until it's too late.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: The most complicated question, the one I keep coming back to,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: is how did the bad blood begin? And there are
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: many versions. An ill fated trip to Montreal where Sheldon
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: felt slighted about having to stay in my father's basement,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: an ill fated trip to New York where my father
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: felt slighted about having to stay in Sheldon's attic, rude
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: words spoken to each other's wives. In one version of
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the story, Sheldon's refusal to bring a table to my
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: brists almost resulted in my being circumcised on an ironing board.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: But in the version being told today, my father was
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: asked by Sheldon to pay more than his fair share
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: for their mother's funeral, and.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: I said, you always working some kind of an angle,
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: So he got furious. He got furious, He started screaming
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: into the phone, go to hell, drop dead, bye ba by,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And that was how that ended. But I feel he's
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: the kind of guy that the gun he has angles
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: like that, you know he has angles. I always felt
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I was on the up and up with him and
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: he wasn't with me.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: If you've got a stronger sense that he was interested
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: in seeing you, then would you yes, yes, you would
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: be my granting.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't play the house though, that's out of the question.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, quick sidebar. Anytime I've ever raised the prospect of
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: visiting Sheldon, no matter how hypothetical the scenario, my father
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: always makes a point of insisting, how no matter what,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: he would not stay in Sheldon's house, even if he
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: was invited to which I should point out he never is.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't stay at his house. How come you I
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: wouldn't stay there, I mean, not my thing?
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: How come you always bring that up? I mean, normally,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: when someone goes to visit someone that they haven't seen
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in decades, don't stay at a hotel.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: I would stay at a motel or somewhere near hetel.
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: No, we'd get a place, you know with an ice machine,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know why you want to.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: You're interested in making a trip.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm interested. Do you think that there's anything
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: to be gained in seeing him?
• 7:44
  Speaker 7: Hm?
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I guess there's something then, you know, you share your
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: common experience and talk about the old days, and there
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: are things that only he and I can remember. You know, yeah,
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: you know you What you could do is you could
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: call him and see what what what what his attitude is?
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: You know, it depends on you, know how how how
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: how you feel, what kind of receptions you get.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would. I would be happy to
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: do that.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I like your initial suggestion that you call him, feel
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: him out, and see what he's like.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, I didn't suggest that, but you you suggested that.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: I like that just because you'll give me an honest
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: you'll give me an honest reaction.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I'm happy to do it. But I mean, what what
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: what are you looking for from from? What do you
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: want to hear from him?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: I missed my brother. I would like to see him. Okay,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: that's all.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, you understand, and you come back.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: On me with an honest evaluation.
• 8:59
  Speaker 8: Hello, Sheldon, Yeah, speaking hi that it was quite a
• 9:04
  Speaker 8: shock getting your phone call. You said, Johnath. Yeah, my
• 9:11
  Speaker 8: hearing is not that great, okay, And when I heard
• 9:14
  Speaker 8: the first message, I'm saying, who the heck is that?
• 9:18
  Speaker 8: I don't know anybody by that name.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Sheldon now lives outside of Fort Lauderdale, but my few
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: memories of him are from when he lived in upstate
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: New York. I remember he lived in a trailer. I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: remember that he worked at a local prison, that he
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: smoked cigars, that he looked a little like my father,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: but was hunched, like the world was weighing down on him.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: And he always wore this expression on his face that
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: seemed to say, you gotta be kidding me. You're keeping okay,
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: you're keeping occupied.
• 9:46
  Speaker 8: Yeah, I read a lot. I going to gym. I
• 9:51
  Speaker 8: go shopping. Hi, you know, here and there, little things
• 9:55
  Speaker 8: here and there.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: And so you still go. How often you go to.
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: The gym three times a week?
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And what kind of stuff do you do there?
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: Well?
• 10:05
  Speaker 8: I do about twenty minutes of aerobics, uh huh, and
• 10:11
  Speaker 8: then I do a little weight training. I try to
• 10:15
  Speaker 8: flirt a little with the women there.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. My father also goes to the gym. That's
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a part of his routine. Also, he was he was
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: happy to hear from you on his eightieth birthday.
• 10:32
  Speaker 8: Yeah, well he didn't call me on my eighty.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Fifth though, tit meet tat Yeah, like, so, you know,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: maybe we could go out for dinner. I don't know
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing.
• 10:48
  Speaker 9: Uh huh.
• 10:51
  Speaker 8: Well, what kind of time frame are we talking about here?
• 11:05
  Speaker 9: I don't know. Our lives have been much different. I
• 11:10
  Speaker 9: don't know how much we have to have in common anymore.
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't have.
• 11:18
  Speaker 9: We don't have much in common anymore except the fact
• 11:22
  Speaker 9: that we're elderly and retired.
• 11:26
  Speaker 7: Other than that, I don't.
• 11:27
  Speaker 9: Know what we have in common.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: You have your past in common?
• 11:33
  Speaker 10: Yes, I'll tell you honestly. I'm not a very sentimental person,
• 11:40
  Speaker 10: and I think, and I being a pragmatist, I take
• 11:45
  Speaker 10: things the way they are. I try not to dwell
• 11:50
  Speaker 10: upon the past, and I try not to take people
• 11:56
  Speaker 10: the way I remember them, but as they are.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Do you think that makes things easier.
• 12:06
  Speaker 7: Makes things easier for me?
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Do other people around you? Sometimes? Doesn't make it
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: harder for other people around you ever.
• 12:20
  Speaker 9: To be honest with you, I've been in the last
• 12:25
  Speaker 9: few years. I've been a loner.
• 12:29
  Speaker 7: You would basically almost call me a recluse. I don't
• 12:34
  Speaker 7: socialize with many people, and I really don't give a
• 12:40
  Speaker 7: damn what anybody thinks.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
• 12:47
  Speaker 9: Contrary to popular believe, I like.
• 12:51
  Speaker 7: Being alone by myself. I get along with myself very well.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 12:58
  Speaker 9: Look, I don't want to be rude. Yeah, yeah, but
• 13:02
  Speaker 9: I want to go have my lunch.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's fine, Sheldon. I
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: appreciate your talking to me, and you would be amenable
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: to spending some time.
• 13:16
  Speaker 9: Why not. We are brothers. I mean, we're not closer
• 13:20
  Speaker 9: or anything, but you know we're not going to have.
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: A chance to see each other much in the future.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is that anything that you think about?
• 13:37
  Speaker 9: Not much now?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And so I call my father back and let him
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: know that Sheldon is amenable. And because I know that
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: for my father the days tend to pile up like
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: unboxed air conditioners, I have my mother get on the
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: phone to help nail down a firm travel date.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: And Daddy wants to go.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: If Dad wants to go, if he wants.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: To go next weekend.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: We don't have to go on the weekend. We can
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: go during the week.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Comes, as you know, you caught me off. God,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: how about it. I'll call you Wednesday or Thursday.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: How's that today's Monday or yeah, or even if you
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: feel like calling tomorrow, you can call me.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'll probably I'll call you at the latest Thursday.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: To get the Thursday at the latest. That's three days
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: from today. Okay, all right, you do what you want
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to do. You call me, but I'll call you a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Thursday coming up after the break Thursday, and so on Thursday,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: possibly with a little nudging for my mother, Buzz agrees.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: And then my father and I are off to Florida
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: to the at my uncle Sheldon too, and then you
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: have an address, Yeah I do, Okay. My dad and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I meet up at the Fort Lauderdale Airport. I flew
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: from New York and my dad from Montreal. My father's
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: all dressed up, wearing a faux Swaede sports jacket that
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I've never seen him in. We grab our airport rental
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: and prepare for the two hour drive to Sheldon in
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the ninety degree heat. It's immediately made clear that faux
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: swayed might not have been the best fashioned choice.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It's like we're on a safari.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: On the road to Sheldon's. My father will experience a
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: spectrum of feelings. As we first set out, there's excitement.
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: You know, my brother was funny in a lot of ways.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I could laugh.
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: We're gonna have laughed with him, you know what I mean.
• 15:44
  Speaker 5: He's a very funny man.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: A half an hour in and there's bitterness.
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: We invited him to your Moments and he returned a
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: very cold card. Sorry we will not be attending. It
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: was you know, so mean, you know what I mean?
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: Even the writing.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: An hour in and how is buzz feeling.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: I'm relaxed.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: I'm kind of old to get anxious, you know what
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: I'm meaning.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Half an hour to Sheldon's.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: A little bit apprehensive now.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ten minutes to Sheldon's and buzzes feeling all right, Yeah,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: he's feeling a little.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 16:24
  Speaker 5: It's gonna be strange. Yeah, it's gonna be very strange.
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, the man is a stranger to me now,
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: and yet he's my brother.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: You understand.
• 16:32
  Speaker 5: It's a very strange feeling.
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I wonder if he's getting nervous, maybe because he's
• 16:41
  Speaker 6: waiting for us, right, Yeah.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: You all set?
• 16:49
  Speaker 11: Yeah, Oh it's hot, it's really hot.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sheldon lives in the corner house. On a quiet
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: suburban street.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: I guess.
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: Is this his door?
• 17:07
  Speaker 11: I'll double check, maybe, because there is.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you.
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: I smelled the good smell of cigar.
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: They had become a monk.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And after all the years and the worry and the dread,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: things seem to be going swimmingly. We sit down at
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Sheldon's kitchen table and my father gets right into it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: Now, there's things I want to know. You said that
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: Rainy died.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: The dead are a good place to begin as a subject.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: They're easily agreed upon and not likely to spark a fight.
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: The uncle died. The uncle died. He was the youngest brother. Oh,
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: he died long ago.
• 17:58
  Speaker 5: He died.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: Who died? Real prick.
• 18:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I didn't know him that well, he didn't know Yeah, yeah, shocking.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he was fat. He was fat, red head.
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: Red head right, yeah, yeah, remember Johnny. Johnny was a
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: sax man.
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: John He would fuck a dog on the street if
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: you sort of dog and try to fuck the dog.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: Can I get your guys a cold beer? I'd like
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: a beer, olive beer.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Even though they're in their eighties, Sheldon and Buzz still
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: possessed voices and temperaments suited to shouting out Brooklyn tenement windows. Well,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: my voice olive beer is best suited to asking a
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: waitress if there will be a sharing charge. I forgot
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: Sorry.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Case in point this is Sheldon accidentally swiping a portable
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: mike her phone receiver off the kitchen table and me
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: trying to smooth things over.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: This off. Well, it's annoying.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: No, he just put it in the in your pocket there.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: Just take it off please.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Over the next couple of days, my testes will flee
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: like frightened cockroaches upward, ascending to heights not seen since
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: the bar Mitzvah that Sheldon was not attending. And while
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: we're on the subject of testes, here's Sheldon reminiscing about
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the time he was examined for a rupture by their
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: family doctor.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Me and Walie Rosen were joining the weightlifting Yeah, say,
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: how to be tested for a rupture? Hey, I'm being
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: put his hand onto my balls. I started left and
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: so hot, I pissed right in his hand.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Hey.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Over the years, I've seen my father in the role
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of husband, uncle, and grandfather, but I've never really seen
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: him in the role of younger brother. How odd to
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: see it now? At eighty, he sits beside Sheldon with
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: this expression I've never seen on his face. It's wide eyed,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: sweet and deferential. But as the day wears on, Sheldon
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: and Buzz began to squabble over their memories, fighting over
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: every little detail.
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: Remember the hallabaloo we had with the diet haaddyet that
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: heavy set.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Girl a manicurist. She was a head dying manicurist. No,
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: she was a head dying. Here's what happened. She went
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: over to Earth.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: They even argue over the death of their grandmother.
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: I found her body.
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: My mother was across the street a Greenborough, I remember,
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: and I knew she was dead. I never saw a
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: dead body in my life, but I knew she was dead.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Sure, so wait till you found her, or you found her.
• 20:49
  Speaker 5: I remember looking in on the room and see how
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: I said, it was awfully whet.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: I found her, but let him no, I'm not some credit.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: The whole afternoon is like this. Every subject, even their
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: dead grandmother, somehow becomes fodder for another pissing match. They're
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: burning up all this time with small talk when what
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: they need is some big talk. In particular, they need
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: to address a story that I know who. It's a
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: great deal of meaning for my father. It took place
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty nine, on the day their mother left them.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I've only ever heard the story from my father, never
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: from Sheldon. I wanted to ask what you remember, what
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: your perspective?
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: Well, I remember that time was when Pop was smacking
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: Iran and she ran out in the hole and her.
• 21:39
  Speaker 5: Slip fighting in the hole, he was smacking around.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: She ran out. Yeah, So what happened the next morning?
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: The next morning, Yeah, they look in a closet, her
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: clothes were gone. She left.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Oh what happened after this? And my father's telling is
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: that his mother returned soon after she left with a
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: policeman in tow.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: And they came back to try to get you.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: They wanted you to come back with them, and where
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: were you? I was there, but they were trying to
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: drink you out of the house. You weren't trying to No.
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: No, I can say with my father and grandma and mother.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: This is the point of the story. For my father.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: It proves once and for all how his mother loved
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Sheldon more than she loved him. Sheldon didn't move out
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: with her, and after a year their mother returned and together,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Buzz and Sheldon grew up under the same roof in
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the same bedroom, often sleeping under the same blankets, each
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: knowing who the mother had chosen, and each having to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: do their best to carry on and live life with
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the burden of that knowledge. A couple times during the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: day I asked them why they haven't spoken in so long,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and they both insist, maybe out of embarrassment, that they
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: do talk, just not often. But it isn't true. In fact,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: my father learned of Sheldon's wife's death many years after
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the fact, and then only from me. Sheldon's daughter got
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: in touch through Facebook and we made a phone date
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: where she caught me up on her life in Sheldon's
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and a few nights later, while over at my parents
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: for dinner, I told my father of his sister in
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: law's death. There was a terrible look that fell across
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: his face, one of sadness, but something else too, maybe
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: shock over just how far he and Sheldon had drifted.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I found out about Judy, about her death. Who your wife?
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: I didn't know about it either until you told me. Yeah,
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: I didn't I tell you. No, you didn't know about it. No,
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: we didn't know. We didn't know she was sick about
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: two years here, Judy, Well, when she got the diagnosis,
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: she was already stage four. What did I know about cancer?
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: So the surgeon, so he said, So, I said, well, doctor,
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: how did the surgery go? I always show you. I
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: went very well. But the cancers in her liver, now
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: I spread, I said, it's in he'll liver. I said what.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: And on top of that, I'm driving home. I'm all
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: fucked up and I'm spaced out, and my driver windows open,
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: and some kids pull up alongside me and flip a
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: lit cigarette into my car. You know where I usually
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: might commented, buy myself on the ball. They got a
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: waitress there always wait time.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: It takes cook Canada for dinner. Sheldon takes us to
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: a local outback steakhouse. As people walk by, he provides
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: a running commentary of an elderly couple.
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: Don't get like that couple. Whatever you do, it's time
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: for the execution.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Of an overweight couple.
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: O fat, people are fat.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: It's as though he's sharpening his with readying it for
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: the main event. Teasing my dad about Canada.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: I don't know how you could take Canada when your white.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: So you got nice neighbors.
• 25:46
  Speaker 5: It's nice.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: It's okay. Uh. I wasn't gonna say, you're living in
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: the same place for rom.
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: Oh about thirty five, thirty eight years, something like that.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: I'm happy here. Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: For my father, I know this is a touchy subject,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: believing as he always has, that Sheldon looks down on
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: him for the dinkiness of his Canadian life and home.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: It's like a constant reminder of just who is second best. Later,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: my father will repeat Sheldon's words. You're still living in
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: that same place, He'll say, for how many years? But
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: just then I watch my father clench and unclench his
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: jaw as he does when he is brooding. I know
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: he's trying to take the high road, trying not to
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: ruin the evening what two.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: Hundred dollars and thirty cent said.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I pudd Sheldon invites us back to his place for cookies,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: but my father says he isn't up for it.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: As we walk through the restaurant parking lot to the car,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: my father is silent. I find myself feeling protective of him.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: After midnight, lying awake in our hotel, well, my father
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: insisted we stay at one, I lay in bed thinking
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: about that day in nineteen thirty nine when my grandmother
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: came back for Sheldon, not my father. For my father,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: not only did it push him away from Sheldon, making
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: him feel jealous and resentful, but it also cast a
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: shadow over the rest of his life, causing him to
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: always feel passed over. He's mellowed with age, But as
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: a kid, I saw it come out in all kinds
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: of ways, always sensitive to slights, ready for a fight
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: at the smallest perceived defense. I wonder if there's a
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: different way for my father to see things, If there
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: is the only living person in this world who can
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: help is Sheldon. When their mom left, Sheldon was nine,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: my father five. Sheldon would have understood a lot more
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: than my father. Yesterday, Buzz and Sheldon talked like a
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: couple of kids who used to play stickball in the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: old neighborhood. Today, if me and my big fat meddling
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Yap have any sway, they'll have a chance to talk
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: as men, as brothers, ye, because if not. Now when
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: day two, this.
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: Is a damn good cigar, Oh, Dominical Republic.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: They make a damn good cigar in Dominical Republic.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: Despite the difficulties of last night. The coin is flipped
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: back to the good side. Sheldon offers my father a cigar,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: and with a cigar, some cigar talk, some pretty foul
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: cigar talk.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: We're riding on Queen's Boulevard. Johnny's in the back seat
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: with the whole He's got his naked ass up in
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: the air and he's well, the funny thing. We had
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: to stop for a light and there's a trunk driver
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: sitting in the cab bump high. Was funny.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: If you guys missed each other, do you miss each other?
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: You know? He asked the weirdest question, What is he abroad? No?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. That's you know, eager to
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: prove to my uncle Sheldon that in spite of the
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: fact I'm wearing my wife's travel deodorant, I am indeed
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: not abroad. I allow them to return to more pressing matters.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: They're Prostates, that said Jesus.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: He says, your prest feels like the moon craters. And
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: there he said, I said, thank you, doctor complimenting.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: So if I could steer this away from the Prostates.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So my father said that it's significant to him to
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: have come.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: What do you say, I agree with whatever he said?
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: But what about you?
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: I said, I agree with whatever he said? Do you
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: want to written?
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I know, i'my. It feels like I'm getting a taste
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: of what growing up with Sheldon might have been like.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: So again I make my move. So I have some
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: questions just about because the stories that I know from
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: my father. But I'm curious your take is because you
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: were older, do you remember what was going on when
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: your mom when your mother left? Originally like what what?
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And what was going on?
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: Didn't you cover this ground before yesterday?
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: But from my father's perspective, the way I understood it
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: was always you were the favorite. Did you did you
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: feel that way? At this point, Sheldon's face suddenly softens.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: I always felt that I got the short end of
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: the stick.
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but you have you were kind of a favorite
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: with my mom.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Maybe with mom, of course maybe temperamentally we were
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: closer than I was with my father. My father never
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: gave me spit. Did you ever get any money from
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: my father? I can't remember. You never got a line now,
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: I can't remember, yeh never. One time I sprained my
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: ankle so biget that was? That was terrible. I laid
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: in that bed my hand. He was, He says to me,
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: you lazy bum. Yeah, man, he went off on me
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: that time. He took Sheldon.
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: Once Sheldon happened to say the word fuck.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: He came in with that fucking strap, swinging with the.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: Bucket, and you know, I can understand it, leaving a
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: feeling of resentment and dislike.
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: Hey, yeah, that was his way of communicating with us.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: Smack smack, and then what a way? Yeah it was
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: he easier on you. You think, uh, it wasn't that easy.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: But he was tough on Sheldon was.
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: I know you were closer to him than I was.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: A lot of things that went on. You didn't understand
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: really what was going on, So you had a different take.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Why are you surprised by But I was a kid.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: I didn't understand it.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: But you didn't know that Sheldon was getting it so bad.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: In Buzz's telling, their father was always a more or
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: less benign, childish figure, incapable of expressing his feelings and
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: so given to temper tantrums. For Buzz, it was their
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: mother who was the manipulator, the woman who played the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: brothers off each other. But hearing Sheldon's take. It sounds
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: like maybe their mother didn't come to take Sheldon because
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: she loved him best, but simply because he needed more
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: protecting from their father. For the first time during our trip,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I can see my father considering Sheldon's point of view,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: actually taking it in. I know it's intense for him
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: because he can't even meet Sheldon's eyes. Instead, he looks
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: at me, addresses his comments to me.
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: You know, it said that my father's such a negation
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: of impact on him, you know, just awful because he
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: had so much going for me. He was a wonderful son.
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: He worked hard, he was a good boy.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: He went to school talking like I'm a failure in life. No,
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: you weren't a faith That's what I'm saying. You learn
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: a faith.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: But all I'm saying is that emotionally he left an
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: impact on you.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: It took a long time for me to get out
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: of that emotion. And now I'm at peace to myself.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: I can talk about him and laugh about it.
• 33:36
  Speaker 9: Now.
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: I want peace quiet. I'm happy living by myself.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Are you lonely?
• 33:44
  Speaker 4: Sheldon?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: The last time my father saw my grandfather in full health,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: my dad was visiting from Canada, my grandfather asked my
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: father to drive him to the semin Harry to visit
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: his parents' grave, and once there, my grandfather wept inconsolably.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Later that day he would succumb to a stroke, and
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: shortly after we moved to a nursing home, with Sheldon
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: being more local. The burden of my grandfather's care fell
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: mainly to Sheldon. It seems like a lot of the
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: family's burdens fell to Sheldon.
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: They put a lot of a lot of the responsibility
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: on him. That my dad should have been taking that responsibility, and.
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: He shouldered that. Well, who was going to take car
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: of you? Who is going to take you to school? Meet? Yea,
• 34:34
  Speaker 4: I remember one time I was later or something. You
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: stood outside that right, I said, mousy, I'm here, I'm here.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: He was good to meet a lot of times me.
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: You know, you were.
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: My older brother used to knock the shit out of
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: me sometimes, But you know that's the way it is
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: with brothers.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I was good in some way some way
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: that I was mean? Who was not?
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: Who is not?
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: Who is not?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: So if you feel like you were compelled to see
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: each other now because you knew that, you know, it's
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: an hour and never kind of thing. Then it means
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: that it was important to you both right to see
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: each other.
• 35:20
  Speaker 5: You want to take that sure yes, easy answer, Yes, yes,
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: because we're not getting any younger. I mean, what's down
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: the road. I'm eighty he's eighty five. I mean because
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: there was a lot of water under the bridge and
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: we want to close that bridge.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 35:38
  Speaker 5: I want to feel easy. Now, I want to say,
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: now he's going to be eighty six. I want to
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: call him on his birthday and say happy birthday to him. Now,
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: I'm not going to stand any fucking ceremonies anymore.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: As my father speaks, as per his brother's example, dropping
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: f bombs like he's in a Guy Ritchie film, Sheldon
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: keeps his arms crossed and his eyes shut tight. He's
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: quiet for several seconds, and then he reaches out to
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: pet his cat.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: Should I leave you at a cat in my will?
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: If anything happened.
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: If anything out, I'll take care of the cat. I'll
• 36:08
  Speaker 5: take care of the cat. I'm happy I can't to
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: see you.
• 36:12
  Speaker 4: That I am. I'm happy it can't here. That's good,
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: very good. Wherever I want to.
• 36:21
  Speaker 9: Buy a house.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: When it's time to leave, Sheldon walks us outside, but
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: before we get into the rental, he points across the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: lawn to his neighbor's house. He tells my father that
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: it's for sale, and then he tells him the asking price,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: and my father says that doesn't sound bad at all.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And Sheldon says that, what with Canada being so bloody cold,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: my father should consider moving to Florida, and my father
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: says maybe he will. They don't get too emotional, they
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: don't even hug it by, They just shake hands. And
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: with that, it feels like Buzz has forgiven Sheldon, and
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Sheldon has forgiven Buzz.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: All right, you take care of under the bridge. Safe
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: trip both, thank you, Yeah, thank you. We'll speak. M'll speak.
• 37:18
  Speaker 11: Turn right on Northwest drawn.
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, it feels so different now, you know.
• 37:25
  Speaker 5: This has taken a lot off my shoulders idea.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: As we ride to the airport, my father says that
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: the thought of Sheldon all alone in that house with
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: just a cat makes him sad. Do you really think
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: he isn't lonely, my father asks. I assure him that
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Sheldon seems okay with being alone, but my father doesn't
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: seem so sure. After all these years, the burden of
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: having lost his brother has been replaced by a new burden,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: one that might be heavier to bear.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Now that the fern ures returned into its goodwill home,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: now that the last month's rent is skating with.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: The damage to pos take this moment to dissolve.
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: If we mentage, if we tried felt around for fuck
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: to from the bank said accident.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Lee Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: This episode was also produced by Wendy Dore, Chris Neary,
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: and Khalila Holt, editing by Alex Bloomberg and Peter Clowney.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Special thanks to Caitlin Kenny, Starley Kine and Rachel Ward.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The show was mixed by Hailey Shaw. Music in this
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: episode by Christine Fellows, with additional music and ad music
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: by Hailey Shaw. Our theme song is by The Weaker Bands,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: courtesy of Epitaph Records. A version of the story appeared
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: on This American Life, and we had a lot of
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: help from the folks there, Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Jonathan
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: men Heavar, Sean Cole and Robin Semeon a very special
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: thanks to Emily Condon. Follow us on Twitter at heavyweight.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: We'll have a new episode next week.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: We used to call him Mitchy, little bitchy, Remember the
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: older brother, the oldest one. He was kind of hey,
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: well lucky we turned out as good as we did.