Latest / Low to Grow / Ariel Sit on Turning Down Google, Burnout and Building MindBeauty

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Ariel Sit on Turning Down Google, Burnout and Building MindBeauty · Low to Grow

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It's so important that it doesn't matter if you have like
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paper qualification or not. I think the real experiences are
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the more important things when it comes to preview.
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Today I'm introducing you to Ariel Sit, Founder of Mind
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Beauty, a marketer and business mentor with over 2 decades of
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experience helping entrepreneurs grow online businesses that
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actually work. When I was 27, I was really an
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art director. I didn't like my life at all.
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But then. So I'll try starting a business.
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And then I failed because I didn't have any knowledge at
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all. Why I invited Ariel to join
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Village Growth Podcast is because of the depth and
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spiritual awakening behind her work.
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Ariel comes from a long lineage of healers, and in fact, her
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late grandfather was a psychic and meditation teacher.
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In her own way, Ariel is carrying that family legacy into
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the modern day, guiding women back to themselves.
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Her journey certainly hasn't been linear.
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After a burnout in her early career, Ariel made for bold
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decision to walk away from a six figure corporate career and to
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step into deep healing, self discovery and spiritual
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awakening. It was one of the biggest career
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change in my life and then one of the best moments in my life.
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At the heart of everything that Ariel teaches is this belief
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that reinvention is possible at any stage of life, and the
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moment you stop drinking yourself is the moment when
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everything begins to change. If I wanted to change my life, I
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have to do something different because if nothing changes,
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nothing changes, right? Because I was a very ambitious
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person. And then that set back really
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made me feel like I was a failure.
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We were not taught how to be resilient even.
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We were not taught emotional intelligence.
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We were not taught to believe in your cell or trust the future.
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Arrow has kindly created a really special giveaway just for
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listeners of the Low to Grow podcast.
1:57
You can access this under her episode at LOWTOGRO w.com, so be
2:03
sure to check that out after you listen.
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In a way, if you change the question, you actually change
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the outcome of how people think. I think it's really important
2:12
and it is why I'm like. Quick note before we start, if
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you have enjoyed this podcast and want to support our
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incredible guests, please follow Low to Grow podcast on Instagram
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and TikTok. Welcome to Low to Grow, the
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podcast transforming life's toughest moments into
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opportunity for growth. I'm Annie, a Forbes under 30
2:33
technology founder who's entrepreneurship journey brand
2:36
parallel to a mental health awakening.
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In every episode, I sit down with inspiring individuals and
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delve into how they managed to turn their personal or
2:46
professional challenges into opportunities for growth.
2:50
If you're facing uncertainty in your life, feeling down, or
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simply need a kick of inspiration to keep moving
2:56
forward, this is your space for the honest and uplifting
3:00
conversations that you will want to hear.
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Hit follow so you never miss an episode and let's dive in
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everyone. It's a pleasure to have you on
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the Lowest Row podcast. Who do you want to be listening
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to our conversation today? I.
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Think it would be very beneficial for women in their
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20s, thirties or 40s who are probably facing like a
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transition period of their life or in their career and they are
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feeling stuck at the moment. They don't know what to do at
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the moment, like whether or not they should change career or you
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know, step back from the career for a while and then you know,
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get clear of what kind of direction they want in their
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life. So basically it's people who are
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in a cross junction in their life, especially in a career.
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Thank you, Ariel. And why is that important to you
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personally? Because I've been through this
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kind of cross junction twice in my life.
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Like it's a very low points at 2 low points in my life.
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Once happened in my 20s and then once happened in my 30s.
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And then from these two low points, I found a way to stand
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up again because I always agree to very, very tough moments back
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then. I really, really wish that more
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women listen to some of the stories I have to share to help
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them overcome the struggles so that they have more like methods
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and ways that can help them overcome the similar journeys
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to. Looking forward to dive into
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that with you as well. Ariel, where does your own story
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start? Right, let me think.
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So I want to share about the first low point of my life, if
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you don't mind. I started my career Evama to
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start with my career, I was a web designer in the beginning.
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So I started really hard and then before I became with the
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web designer, I want to become a singer.
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Can you believe it? It's a very interesting journey.
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I even like joined a lot of competition back then and 1:00
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So I know that this is the part that I want to go into.
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But unfortunately my parents couldn't Fort send me to music
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school. So I took graphic design and web
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design instead. And then I graduated and then I
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started working for a couple of years.
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It was going well, but I was exhausted.
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And then until 27 years old, I was looking at a senior at that
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time. She was one of the like most
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successful art director back then that I've worked with.
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And then I looked at her life and then I thought she was like
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never like happy. I didn't see her like showing
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expression of joy at work. Like, it was always very
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stressed out because back then in Malaysia, the advertising
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industry, people were overworked as a batch of honor, which is
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really unhealthy. And I was working at least 10 to
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12 hours every day. And then I was exhausted as
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well. And then I looked at her, looked
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at her life. She's married.
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She didn't have any children, but then she looked exhausted
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all the time. So I thought maybe this is not
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the way I want to go into like in the future, like maybe three
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or five years. I don't want to become someone
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like her, you know, still exhausted, even though on paper
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it may look really, really well, you have a successful career.
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So and then I wanted to take a leap of faith, like to try
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something else because like the the salary back then wasn't,
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wasn't good, wasn't lucrative, even though I was.
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Yeah, when I was 27, I was already an art director, got
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formulated. And then I didn't like my life
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at all back then. So I'll try starting a business.
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And then I failed because I didn't have any knowledge at
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all. I was just listening to, you
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know, how other people did it. And then I save up some money,
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but I failed because I didn't have the resources like
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especially knowledge in how to handle a business on how to
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handle sales. I didn't have any sales
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experience. I was really upset and sad back
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then. I was terrified because I owe
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the bad money. And for a couple of months I
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went back to my parents place and stayed with them and then I
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couldn't function for a couple of months.
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What business did you try to start?
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It was selling a house perfume. It's originally from France,
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very luxury kind of product. But then, yeah, I just couldn't
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see myself doing it because I just didn't know that selling a
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physical product requires so much of my time and energy.
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And then I didn't how to handle clients.
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So yeah, I didn't have a little knowledge at all.
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I took a few months to really reflect on my life and then also
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did a lot of unhealthy stuff like watching drama series just
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to get over the feeling of a fear of what's going to come
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next, because I was a very ambitious person.
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And then that set back really made me feel like I was a
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failure. But inside me I was also reading
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a lot, reading a lot self improvement books because I know
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that the only way to get out of that rut was to change.
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I gave myself a keyword I still remember very immediately, like
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in my wanted to change my life, I have to do something
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different. Because if nothing changes,
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nothing changes, right? I started to apply for jobs that
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were like, not my expertise at all, but it's slightly similar
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in my industry. So I graduated from
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communication art design school. So communication was something
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that I can go into. So I started applying for like
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client facing role in the advertising industry as well.
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And then I slowly learned how to manage clients, everything about
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client management, sales. And even though that time like I
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think I took maybe two to three years to get back up on track
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again financially and that was 29 years old that two years in.
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So it's OK. When I was 30 years old, I got a
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really, really huge opportunity. And because of those
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uncomfortable jobs that I took after my failure, the business
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failure and learned so much that even though on paper I wasn't,
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you know, I didn't have a degree in sales for business management
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and marketing and so on so forth.
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But one of the top Malaysia's entertainment media company,
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they reached out to me. They were hiring for sales
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manager and managing like world class brands like Citibank, All
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Tags, AirAsia. I was like OK, this is very
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interesting. I didn't have any experience but
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I went for it anyway. I applied and then went for the
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interview and I got in. But I was in this job for like 5
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years. It was one of the biggest career
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change in my life and then one of the best moments in my life
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also happened there. It's Astro.
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So it's like the Netflix of Malaysia.
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It's one of the top entertainment media here in
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Malaysia is a huge company. They have TV divisions, they
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have radio division and then they have magazine, they have
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digital. It's like a very, very huge
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conglomerate. And then I was in radio division
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and also the digital division. I wanted to share why they hired
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me in the 1st place. So they said that one of the
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reasons was that because my background, even though I was in
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communication design, but they saw that I had experiences in
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sales in two of the jobs that I had after my business failure
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because of the experiences that I showed that, you know, I
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didn't mind doing, you know, things that outside of my
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expertise and then learning from it.
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So it goes to show that it's so important that it doesn't matter
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if you have like paper qualification or not.
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I think the real experiences are the more important things when
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it comes to preview because it happened so many times in my
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life. I'm going to share again later
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on, like there's a couple of milestones as well.
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It's just show that it can happen to a lot of people.
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If someone are listening to this and then you're thinking that,
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oh, I don't have this qualification, how can I change
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my career that easy? I would say that during a
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transition, probably it's hard. You may think that it's
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impossible, but when it happens, when you kind of like, OK, I'm
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going to transition to this career path, what do I need to
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have the skills? What do I need to have?
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Like not the paper, not the degree, what exactly do I need
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to learn? The knowledge?
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When you learn that and then you apply for jobs that you may
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think that you're not qualified for, it may surprise you because
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like nowadays it's very different.
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So that was the reason that they told me.
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And then I went on and worked with them for three years 1st
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and then they created a new division, a digital division.
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They needed someone to lead a sales department.
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Can you imagine that from a person who had no sales
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experience at all, no marketing experience, no like had even had
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a business failure before to being offered a promotion to
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handle the sales of a whole digital division.
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It was such an amazing feeling that that I was really grateful
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for. Then when I thought to myself, I
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was so lucky that I didn't give up.
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And then I believed in myself that you know, if I wanted to do
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something different in my life, I just learned on my own, even
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if I don't have the qualification on paper.
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The 4th year was the first year that I started managing the
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whole digital division. I was working alongside with the
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CEO of that new division. Both of us were handling over
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100 clients at the same time. It was very, very hectic because
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it just functioned like a startup back then.
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How big was the core team of that new division?
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So at first, first, first six months, it was just me and COO
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and the CTO. So three of us for maybe like 3
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months and then six months we had like maybe 10 people.
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And then after a year, maybe 20 people in that small team.
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Wow. So you were really building up a
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new division from the very beginning and growing at and
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growing in numbers and no SO responsibilities as well.
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Yeah. And then for the first six
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months I didn't have enough sleep.
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I was just sleeping 5 hours a day, every day for six months
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because I had to like train the new people that coming in, the
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new colleagues. I was traveling the whole
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Malaysia with my CEO to train all the colleagues of the new
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products because it's all new digital products back then.
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So it's, it's very hectic, but it was very rewarding as well
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because I got to see myself, I grow so much from not having a
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sales background, no knowledge at all in how to manage a
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business. So it was as if I was giving, I
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was given an opportunity to run my own business in a way.
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But of course, it's not my business, but it felt like that
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way. Could you walk me through those
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few years from when your first business failed to when you were
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offered this amazing opportunity?
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What were the kind of like middle steps that you took to
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get you there? The middle step was that I
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started applying for sales role like from very small companies.
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I thought. I was just thinking if one
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company was to trust me to help them, that was my stepping
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stone. That will be my stepping stone
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because I was willing to learn. I was willing to start from zero
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again and just learn from zero. And that took me maybe two to
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three years, two to three years until I got this big
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opportunities. I wanted to dive a bit into that
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middle step because I feel like that's when a lot of people
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have. I've always probability of
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giving up and I was really curious to see what happened to
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you and I said what your mindset was.
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I thought you didn't give up and you actually persevered until
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you were noticed and given that opportunity.
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I can share more on that because I understand where you're coming
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from too. It was very challenging starting
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from zero. Again, the very important thing
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that I told myself was to believe in myself because I know
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that all I had was the belief that I could stand up again from
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the failure. As long as I'm alive, I have,
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you know, all the knowledge in the world from to learn the
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first year was very tough because you know, the salary
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wise, it was like starting from like a junior salary level
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again, because it's a very different industry.
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I didn't mind. I was just like adjust my
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spending and the whole mindset was to be OK.
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I can't be frugal, I can go through hardships.
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The whole thing about it, it's the mentality, how you look at
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it. Because if you believe in
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yourself strong enough that things will get better if you
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try, if you move, if you just take action to change your
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current situation, no matter how small the step is, you just take
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it like one step at a time, things will get better because
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things don't get better overnight.
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That was, that was the first year what I what I realized.
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So it's like after the first shot, I learned something new
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and then I changed another, also a small company, also a
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marketing role. So I learned a little bit
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different skills from before, like sales and marketing and
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that was yeah. And then after that small
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marketing role, that was the time that I bought offered this
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opportunity. Wow.
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And how were they able to find you?
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Were you in the right networks? Or was it a mental maybe that
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you had to pick your name forward?
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I think that that's one very important piece as well.
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Thank you for this question because I think that putting
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yourself out there is equally as important because I realized
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because I journal a lot, I journal the the important points
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of how I actually got those opportunities is actually by
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word of mouth, by people knowing me, like see more people, talk
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to more people. Even that time you may not think
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that this person will be able to help me, but like few years down
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the road, there may be a very relevant opportunities that
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reach that person. And then because of that small
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conversation you had with that person and that person remembers
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you, that was that. That's what it takes.
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So I remember it was a good friend of mine.
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He was already in the music industry, entertainment
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industry. He was a singer back then.
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And then we kept in touch, not really close, but then he
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remembered that I was suffering in my career.
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And then he told me that, hey, why not you try this company
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they're hiring, even though probably on paper you're not
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100% qualified, but I do want to have a go.
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And then I got hired. Yeah, yeah.
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So, so networking is equally as important as trying hard
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yourself, jobs yourself. So I think it's one of the most
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rewarding thing, even though if you don't get any opportunities,
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you know, at first you may have good friendships, you know.
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That's so true. I know.
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So it's long term relationship building.
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And I'm sure that there were many opportunities afterwards
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where you also remembered other people in your network when
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suitable opportunities came up for them.
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And I'm really curious because I think this is an area where you
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excel out specifically on which I think our audience would find
19:45
interesting as well. So, for example, if you see like
19:48
a job spec and it's a really interesting job, but you
19:53
possibly felt that it's a bit out of your comfort zone, but
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much, you know, maybe you only match 70% or 60% of the
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requirements. How would you position yourself
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when you're applying for that job or when you're writing your
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new CD for that job? Yeah.
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So at first, first of all, I would see what that job actually
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requires. For example, if they say that on
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paper, oh, you need to have this qualification in this subject
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and this subject and then you have to have like 2 to three
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years experiences in this and that.
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I think the most important thing is to find out whether you have
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transferable skills in yourself first.
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So if let's say kind of example, can I take instead of hiring for
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a manager role, right? And then this person you, you're
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thinking I'm not a manager yet. I'm a junior, but probably I
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have three years experience in the same industry, like maybe my
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CV, it's like 70% match with that job description.
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I think very, very important is that if you have worked with
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clients before or in your own industry, in your current job,
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one of the most rewarding thing is you start to document works
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from people that you worked with.
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Like, especially like successes, no matter how small you think at
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the moment. Because essentially you're
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building your personal brand when you work, even if it's it's
21:20
just a career, you're working for other people.
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You're not a business entity, but it doesn't matter.
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I think personal brand, it's so important for every one of us,
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like you know, regardless you are business owner or not, how
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people feel working with you. I think this is the human touch
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that lacks in ACV because most people don't talk about that.
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Like most people just think that CV is like a machine and you
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just load all your good things, good qualification and skills
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like universities you went to. But a lot of times when people
21:56
are hiring, because I know I came from that side as well.
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Because when I was managing the small digital division that I
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mentioned earlier, I start to see that even though this person
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may be like 60 to 70% OK match on paper, but I would like to
22:12
see how that person is when it comes to a face to face.
22:16
Is this person willing to learn? Is this person like a good
22:21
person to work with? Is it comfortable to work with?
22:24
Is is this person willing to be collaborating in instead of
22:29
saying no to every challenge? Is the attitude as well?
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And CV wise, I would think that my sales skill, if you have
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sales skill, it's a very, very rewarding skill.
22:43
Even when it comes to your CV, when you write about your CV,
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the summary is not to say I've worked with this company for how
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many years I've done this and this project it's completed.
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I think the most important thing is to very clearly elaborate the
23:00
results, the impact that you help bring from your work, no
23:04
matter how small you think your work function is, even for, for
23:08
let's just say a graphic designer.
23:09
Mainly you think that I, I just make things pretty, right?
23:14
Which is not essentially because when you say, let's take web
23:18
designer as an example, web design is basically you design
23:23
the layout, the structure of a website, and then you organize
23:27
the copywriting in a coherent way so that when people read it,
23:31
people understand that what's the main point 1st And then
23:34
people get sold to the idea of your website, right?
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So it's very important. That means your design is
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directly impacting the revenue of the company.
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Your work directly impacted maybe like in three months, the
23:50
company, company's revenue grew from this A-Z.
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So you can put that kind of statement because when people
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want to hire you, they're looking for, yes, qualification
24:03
on paper is one thing, but they also want to see how you can
24:08
elaborate like your impact in the business as well.
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Because everyone, I believe that everyone has their own role in a
24:17
company that contributes to the revenue, even even though it may
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not seem like, you know, you're not in finance, but in a way you
24:24
are still hoping to contribute the revenue side of the company.
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It's really nice how you framed the approach that you would have
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taken and maybe like you have taken yourself.
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And I actually think this also reflects how you would have been
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as a manager as well, because it's been, it's placing the same
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amount of emphasis on someone's attitude and how they would be
24:46
as a team member to work with and how they're actually able to
24:49
deliver results rather than just looking at on paper
24:53
qualifications and more like knowledge based things.
24:55
So I think that's very reflective of the kind of person
24:58
that you are as well, both as an employee and I saw that as
25:01
someone who who manages people. Thank you very much for sharing
25:04
that. Ariel, I think earlier you
25:06
hinted about something that happened maybe four or five
25:09
years into this role at this company.
25:11
That sounds like it was a dream for you to work in.
25:14
So what happened then? What happened after five years?
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So it felt like I had my dream job already.
25:20
It was the peak of my career. I thought it was until the 5th
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year I started to feel burnt out because I was, I didn't stop
25:31
working to be honest. When I look back in my 30s, like
25:36
3435 years old. So when I looked back, thought
25:41
to myself, Oh my God, I think I didn't really rest for five
25:46
years then rest back then was just traveling after traveling.
25:50
It wasn't escape, not not exactly rest.
25:54
It was escape to not feel the stress.
25:58
I truly believe that the stress stays in your body until we
26:02
properly regulate it through a very proper way, which I will.
26:06
I will share as well in that year.
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I still remember it was 2015. Oh my God, it's 11 years ago.
26:14
They promoted me the second time, but I was already
26:17
exhausted. I turned them down.
26:19
Everyone was so shocked, like, Oh my God, what happened to you?
26:22
Do you just want to throw your career away?
26:25
What role would they have promoted you into?
26:28
Senior manager of the team, just next next to the CEO.
26:33
I was quite happy with the salary and everything.
26:36
From the outside people thought that I had the best time of my
26:40
life because I was traveling either for work or just for fun.
26:44
Even for work it looked really glamorous from the outside
26:48
because my job were to was to manage the clients advertising
26:54
campaign, for example, Mercedes. So they hired me to manage their
27:00
whole campaign for like one to three months and then I had to
27:04
travel to every state with the team.
27:08
So it was exhausting because I was always traveling.
27:12
But from the outside, people thought I was having fun, but it
27:15
was for work. I just couldn't think clearly
27:20
for the last three months of my of my tendency there.
27:24
So I quit and I was really, really lost.
27:28
I was very scared as well because I thought to myself I
27:33
was ready to do something else. I didn't even know like what
27:38
kind of work would be available for me that would be that would
27:42
align with my mindset back then because I was looking for
27:46
something that is less stressful, but something about
27:50
personal growth. But I didn't know what it was
27:54
Well. So I took a few months off.
27:58
It's like a sabbatical lease to just travel really slowly.
28:04
And I'm learning meditation. That was the first time I
28:07
discovered meditation. At first, I wanted to use
28:11
meditation as a way to train my brain to make better decision.
28:16
I was focusing on a functional side of things.
28:18
I was hoping that it could help me get even better in my career.
28:22
But I think that was not the right way to look at meditation.
28:27
Of course it's a very good thing to use meditation to improve
28:32
your brain function because when your mind is clear, you make
28:35
better decision. But upon the other side of it, I
28:39
think I needed that because I stored so much stress in my body
28:44
the first time I joined a silent retreat.
28:48
It was like a one day discovery kind of meditation.
28:51
They teach you different types of meditation standing like The
28:55
Walking meditation, even food meditation.
28:59
I just cried so much for no reason.
29:03
I. Realized that it was the stress
29:05
that's stored in my body for so long that it got released during
29:10
those meditation sessions. So it was so powerful to me that
29:15
I I thought to myself, meditation isn't nothing to do
29:20
with like religion, even though I'm a Buddhist.
29:22
But he says no like teaching or correlation with Buddhism at
29:26
all. It's just like very objective
29:28
way of meditation. So I also only discovered yoga,
29:32
meditation and a more slower forms of exercise after a few
29:36
years of working. And I would always say
29:37
meditation is kind of like a form of exercise.
29:40
It's like a muscle that you have to retrain and the more that you
29:43
do it for more beneficial effects that it has for your
29:45
body and also your mindset. Yes, So I discovered that.
29:50
And then although it was just one day, it was enough for me to
29:53
realize that, wow, imagine if I do this every day, what would
29:57
happen to me? Like I get to release at first.
30:00
Like that's the first step, to release all the stress that was
30:02
stored in my body. I didn't even know how to
30:05
regulate. And then also I got a lot of
30:09
clarity out of those sessions. They're only like maybe at most
30:13
10 sessions in two days. Oh, yeah, I missed this.
30:16
Really important point as well. After I quit that jaw and then I
30:21
went on a couple of months to travel to rest and then I
30:25
encountered this meditation retreat and I also broke up with
30:29
my ex-boyfriend, which back then our relationship was OK, there
30:34
was no problem. So it felt like everything fell
30:38
apart. So it contributed to the fear
30:43
of, Oh my gosh, like what's happening to me right now.
30:47
It felt like everything happened at the same time.
30:49
So first was that I was rent out.
30:51
I didn't know what to do next and I was traveling basically.
30:55
I was really lost. But luckily I had a bit of money
31:00
saved Outback then because after a few years of working and then
31:05
meditation retreat and then I broke up with my export friend
31:10
back then. So it was a very huge thing for
31:13
me because I thought it was the only good thing in my life back
31:17
then. And at first I didn't know why
31:22
it had to happen to me. I blamed myself for probably not
31:26
being a good enough girlfriend or and probably there's
31:29
something that I didn't do enough in the relationship.
31:32
I started blaming myself until I started meditating and then I
31:40
got a lot of clarity on, oh, actually it was an alignment in
31:45
a relationship. It's the same thing like what
31:48
happened to my job. So when there's an alignment
31:51
that you feel in view and your external world, regardless of
31:55
what it is, your career, your relationship, your friendship,
31:59
something has to break so that can build again after.
32:05
So it has to happen. Even though it was very
32:07
uncomfortable at that time, I was so hopeless.
32:12
I thought to myself, Oh my God, like I didn't do anything wrong.
32:18
But it still didn't work. How?
32:21
Did your friends and family react to it when you were going
32:24
through a breakup and also quitting your?
32:27
Job because I was always in control of my life.
32:31
It's like the business failure moment.
32:33
Of course, I always look like someone very collected, always
32:38
knew what to do. Like I always solve my own
32:42
problems. I never asked for help.
32:45
And they saw me. I was like, just stayed in my
32:50
room for two weeks after the breakout and then didn't if I
32:53
wanted eating, want to talk to anyone, was crying for two
32:57
weeks. Yeah, there was shock.
32:59
And then after that, I remember, I vividly remember what happened
33:02
after two weeks. I said enough is enough, OK?
33:06
I spent two weeks basically releasing or releasing.
33:10
I think it's important as well for you to cry, to let it out.
33:14
And I put myself together again and reflect again.
33:19
It's journaling. And then I sign up for a course,
33:22
which is the next chapter I want to talk about.
33:25
It's a course from Mine Valley. That's the next company I joined
33:29
after that. So what happened was that
33:31
remember I mentioned I went to the meditation retreat, so.
33:36
Was that in Malaysia? Yeah, it is in Malaysia and
33:39
Mindvalley, the main office back then was in Malaysia as well.
33:43
There HQ was in Malaysia, now is in Estonia.
33:47
So what happened was that it just spot a very big curiosity
33:52
in me. So I started looking like
33:54
Googling more about meditation and probably because of the
33:57
keywords, I saw an article from Ink magazine.
34:01
It says top most beautiful offices in the world, right.
34:05
So I clicked on it. And so 9 Valley was the first
34:09
office. What's it so, so interesting.
34:12
OK, very, very beautiful office out of the Yeah, 10 offices in
34:17
article. And then I saw, Oh my God, he's
34:20
in Malaysia. How come I never heard of this?
34:23
Because they never advertised in Malaysia back then.
34:26
Their main target audience was the US.
34:29
So yeah, I'm really curious. When I signed up for a course
34:32
and then that course was basically tells you, you know,
34:37
to gain a lot of clarity in your life.
34:39
It's meditation plus a lot of like life design work.
34:43
So I went through it and then I thought really clear out of that
34:47
course. And then I started become more
34:50
curious and then I researched what that company is all about.
34:54
And then are they even hiring something that I could, you
34:58
know, do? No, they didn't.
35:00
So there's no role for me. Like nothing was a match, but I
35:05
applied for it anyway. That's the second time.
35:09
I don't want to stress on like taking the opportunity even
35:12
though you think that you're not qualified.
35:14
So I applied for it. What role did you apply for at
35:18
mine? So they're looking for media
35:20
buyer, media buyer advertising. Yeah.
35:23
So I was, I was not an expertise in media buying, although I have
35:28
a little bit of background in advertising and I also had a lot
35:30
of background, a lot of experiences in managing clients,
35:34
closing, you know, big business deals.
35:37
I got interviewed by 4 people and then the last person it was
35:45
the partnerships team. So partnerships team because the
35:48
essential job function is to manage clients as well their
35:52
partners transferable skill from my side that I'm able to do it.
35:56
So they put me in that division. So that's, that's the beginning
36:00
of it. I was so lucky after I think 3
36:05
months in the partnerships team, they dissolved the team and then
36:10
they put me in the course development team.
36:13
OK. So it's very interesting.
36:15
So course development team, back then it was called the author
36:19
relations team because they need someone to the authors directly
36:23
who can manage client relations and also oversee the online
36:28
course development processes. I was really, really fortunate
36:33
to go into that team and work directly with all the authors in
36:38
personal growth and spirituality and learn directly from them.
36:43
All kinds of meditation teachers, spiritual teachers,
36:46
energy healers. I felt like another dream came
36:49
true as well. It was so bizarre because I was
36:52
just thinking I wanted to go into personal growth kind of
36:55
career and somehow I got into it because I just believed myself
36:59
enough to apply. And that's how I began.
37:03
Like I didn't even think that I would be qualified.
37:09
That's such an aspiring story, I know.
37:11
So another example of how well I I think it completely validates
37:15
what you were saying earlier about you know you don't need to
37:18
fit everything in the role description, but as long as you
37:22
and position and be self aware enough of what your transferable
37:26
skills are and show the right attitude, then the right
37:29
positions will find their way to you almost.
37:32
Yeah, so of course I tried my best during the interview
37:36
sessions, try my best to explain to them, share with them all my
37:41
transparent skills and experiences.
37:43
The vivid thing I remember about interview was that before I
37:46
applied for a job there, I was also approached by Google.
37:52
People also thought that, wow, it's a biggest opportunity of
37:55
your life. And then I actually turned it
37:58
down after a couple of interviews.
38:00
What role would it have been at Google?
38:02
So it was a really, really good role.
38:05
They were expanding. Do you want this app called
38:07
Waste? Like yes, it's a car, car
38:11
hiring. Yeah, like a traffic navigation
38:14
app. Yes, yeah, it's really big in
38:17
Europe. Yeah.
38:18
So it was acquired by Google. I don't remember when they only
38:23
had one regional director or manager kind of more back than
38:29
one person handling the advertising media as well.
38:32
It's also selling advertising media for the whole Southeast
38:36
Asia. So they needed someone with
38:39
existing client base with sales experiences who can expand the
38:44
sales beat basically. I was really fortunate to be
38:49
approached. Is interesting because the
38:52
person who looked for this candidate was a person that went
38:56
to the same school as I was in high school.
38:59
We weren't friends but I know that he's from my same school.
39:05
That time of my life. During the Google interview
39:08
time, I thought I wanted that role but after like 4 interviews
39:15
they almost hired me by then and then I told them another job
39:21
offer which was from Mon Valley and then I took it instead of
39:25
Google. Everyone was shocked as well.
39:27
My friends were like are you crazy?
39:29
Decline Google. I said, I think maybe to people
39:37
who don't know me, they must think that you are giving up a
39:41
really, really good opportunity in your life by rejecting or by
39:44
declining Google. But to me, I think that is a
39:48
really aligned timing to let go of such a good opportunity
39:55
because I think it wouldn't align with what I wanted back
39:59
then because my and was I no longer want to sell something
40:05
just for the sake of selling it. Because I media advertising
40:09
space, I've done enough of that for five years.
40:12
If I were to join Google again, yes, the company, it's amazing,
40:16
of course, but the world would be the same.
40:19
Wanted to do something that can actually help people's mental
40:23
health. That's from Wine Valley.
40:25
Yeah, it's so beautiful to hear how you were able to stick to
40:29
what your inner self was calling for in terms of finding this
40:34
next company whose mission aligns with where you were at
40:38
life at that point. And I saw what you wanted to to
40:41
be able to bring. I think it's so interesting how
40:44
you mentioned that one of the reasons why you said no to
40:47
Google was because you didn't want to keep on selling just for
40:50
the sake of selling. Yeah.
40:52
Was that a realization that came to you over the course of the
40:56
time when you were at Astro? I think after Astro I went
41:02
through a few, a few months of traveling, I did a lot of
41:06
reflection and then also after the meditation, the first
41:10
encounter of my red power meditation it and then I did a
41:13
lot of deep self work to understand like for the first
41:17
time in my adulthood to understand my childhood pattern.
41:22
Like what was the the trauma that shaped my belief back then
41:27
were a lot of limiting beliefs that I realized.
41:31
And then I started to reprogram myself through meditation.
41:36
I started to re teach myself. We trained myself to properly
41:41
grow up again. I was saying that in a layman
41:44
term because we were not taught how to be resilient, even we
41:50
were not taught emotional intelligence.
41:53
We were not taught to believe in yourself or trust the future.
41:57
I know a lot of friends in my circle, like very capable women,
42:01
very smart, doubt themselves a lot.
42:04
And I I one of them as well, I doubt myself a lot.
42:09
Well, then because of that period of my life, I learned so
42:13
much about my limiting beliefs. And then I know that there's no
42:16
situation happened when I was younger, I didn't know better.
42:20
I do know how to cope with it. The meditation just gave me so
42:23
much clarity because there are a lot of tools to use, how to
42:28
think when hot things happened so that you can overcome your
42:32
own mind. Because I believe that, I mean,
42:36
at least to me, my biggest mountain is myself.
42:39
Like I my own obstacle time allow me to really, really slow
42:45
down and look at one life in a big picture way.
42:48
Because we were never taught to, you know, slow down to slacken
42:52
your life. I think it was a bizarre thing
42:55
that we were not taught how to set goals at school as well or
43:01
how to design your life. Like what kind of life you want
43:04
to live? Is it in city?
43:06
Is it in the suburb? And that would actually define
43:10
what kind of career me be a good match for you.
43:14
Because right now doing it the other way around, we are asking
43:18
what, what, what do you want to become when you grow up, right?
43:22
And then we never think of the lifestyle that comes with a
43:25
career. Is this something that you've
43:27
seen would be something like for a long term for, for the rest of
43:32
your life, or at least for the 1st 10 or 20 years?
43:37
So I think that contributes to a lot of burnout in a lot of
43:40
people because we were not taught to think of it another
43:43
way round. Like to design your first to
43:46
know what it takes to list this career for at least the 1st 10
43:51
years of your life. If you can't imagine yourself
43:54
living that kind of lifestyle, that comes with a career and
43:58
probably that it's a career for you.
44:00
If you cannot, probably not, no matter how good that career may
44:05
look like. No, that's so true.
44:08
Do you think that it's changing for the students in Malaysia,
44:13
for example, who are currently at secondary school or high
44:16
school? I don't think it's changing just
44:18
yet because because I recently a pretty interesting story.
44:23
I recently talked to a 10 year old and then he just told me he
44:32
doesn't like school. He doesn't know why he goes to
44:36
school and it shocked me because it's like it is.
44:42
It's saddening as well. A young kid doesn't know why
44:46
he's going to school besides going to see friends or learning
44:51
knowledge. It shows that it's a very very
44:56
big gap that we should fill. His education is so important to
45:02
shape the mind and the whole future of the country of world,
45:07
right. If we were not educated that the
45:13
objective of learning whole point of going to school other
45:18
than, you know, get a good job, get a good pay out of the job.
45:23
I think it's something missing because they don't know the
45:26
meaning of learning. And I also think that a lot of a
45:34
lot of education system, they just don't teach important stuff
45:38
like emotion, intelligence, how to manage your personal finance.
45:42
You've hit up on a few points, but it seems it's quite common
45:46
no matter what country it is. I think in the UK and US, In the
45:49
US, there's also a lot of discussion and a desire for
45:53
students, you know, before they leave home to be taught about
45:56
managing personal finances. And also there's higher value,
46:00
especially in the age of AI, on relationship building and also
46:04
emotional intelligence. And I think it's just so
46:07
interesting for me to hear about what your perspective is, given
46:10
that you were kind of like born and raised and also studied and
46:13
worked in Malaysia, which I think culturally is quite
46:16
different to somewhere like the UK.
46:18
So that's super interesting. Yeah, it's still.
46:21
I think that because if I were to say what we should teach kids
46:27
nowadays, it would be one of the most important subjects would be
46:31
emotion intelligence, to truly understand how to manage an
46:34
emotion and also to understand what kind of life they want to
46:40
build in future, what kind of person they want to become, much
46:43
as not just an occupation. You know, like, I still remember
46:47
when I was younger, the standard question would be, what do you
46:53
want to be when you grow up? And then the options would be
46:56
doctors, lawyers, policemen. I think that's it.
47:00
Or nurse. I think it's so outdated already
47:04
that we still expect children to just answer, I want to become
47:09
this because it looks cool, right?
47:11
Like from the uniform of the pictures.
47:14
But I think it's equally important to let them know what
47:17
kind of meaningful life that occupation comes with.
47:21
You know, like, do you like to become this person when you're
47:25
when you grow up? And then what does it mean to
47:28
you when you live this career? How are you going to contribute
47:31
to the society through this community, not just the monies,
47:34
because we were taught that get a good job to get good money.
47:39
We were now we're really taught, OK, become this person so that
47:44
you are able to help more people in a way.
47:47
If you change the question, you actually change the outcome of
47:51
how people think. I think it's really important
47:53
and it is why I like journaling so much, because when you
47:58
journal you just tend to ask a lot of questions you were not
48:01
asked before, see to a very, very different answers and it
48:06
could change your life sometimes like a one small question could
48:09
change your life. For sure.
48:11
I remember one of my previous podcasts guests, he's a real
48:15
estate investor from the US called Ari.
48:17
He actually said that part of what makes people successful is
48:21
actually whether or not they know what questions to ask.
48:25
Because you know, if you're asking about the wrong question
48:27
to yourself or to your colleagues in work or in your
48:29
personal life, then you can waste so much time trying to
48:32
figure out the wrong thing. But it's, you know, how can you
48:35
actually take a step back mentally and really assess if
48:38
you're asking yourself or your team the right questions before
48:41
taking action? But can save a lot of trouble
48:43
when I so just help to steer the ship in that sense, yes, I'm
48:47
really curious because when you were at Mindvalley and you were
48:49
in direct contact with the content creation and with the
48:52
amazing people who were really creating those courses, it's a
48:57
really rare opportunity to be in contact with so many people of
49:01
that caliber. What was one thing that
49:04
surprised you? Or maybe what was 1 surprising
49:06
thing that you learned through working with them?
49:09
They're no more people. I would say that almost all of
49:14
them have been through some kind of big challenges in their life,
49:19
in their course of life. It is so common for us to look
49:22
at someone who looks successful in the outside, like because
49:26
social media, it's a highlight reel.
49:29
You always see good things about that person and you meet that
49:34
she is so successful. Everything in her life must be
49:39
good, must be perfect. But it's so common that every
49:45
author that I worked with, their pivoting point comes through a
49:49
challenging point. It is so important to understand
49:53
this because every one of them had been through really, really
49:57
low point of their life, and then they found their calling
50:00
from that low point. So it's as if the low point was
50:03
the first step of the success. And look at failure as the first
50:08
step is not a separate thing from success.
50:11
It's just part of success. It's the first step of success.
50:13
Because if you are able to look at the failure from a
50:17
perspective that, wow, OK, this is something that doesn't work
50:22
for me, What does it try to tell me?
50:24
What is my calling out of this obstacle?
50:27
Because I looked at all those people's profile, because I had
50:30
to study them is working directly with them, producing
50:33
course with them. That was part of my job to study
50:37
their background. So that was the common thing I
50:40
noticed. So every one of them had a very
50:44
low point. And that low point, the the
50:47
topic of that low point very much related to what they're
50:50
doing right now. If they were suffering from self
50:55
doubt and then right now they're doing something about overcoming
50:59
self doubt and then they're really, really successful at it
51:02
because they've been through it themselves and then they found
51:05
them to overcome it themselves. That was one of the biggest
51:09
observation. If I were to share more, it
51:12
would be probably a long conversation.
51:15
I'm sure about there were many Nuggets of gold that you were
51:18
able to gain everywhere. In your opinion, what is one
51:21
thing that you believe will allow more people to have better
51:24
mental health? Journaling and meditation and
51:29
oh, it's more than one thing already, self-awareness to
51:33
really understand yourself and to go deep into yourself to
51:39
understand what you actually want in their life.
51:41
Because the biggest question to ask yourself is that what kind
51:45
of life do you want? What is your dream life?
51:48
And when I talk about dream life, I'm not talking about what
51:52
kind of material things that you can have, but it's exactly what
51:56
kind of life that you need and how that life can also
52:01
positively impact other people while you are living that life.
52:06
To me, living a meaningful life is not just about doing
52:12
everything yourself and being happy in your own life circle,
52:17
but also at the same time, while you're doing what you're doing
52:21
best, what makes you happy? In that process, you are also
52:26
positively impacting others. That's a really beautiful night
52:30
to end on as well. Arrow.
52:31
It's been such a pleasure to have you on the Load to Grow
52:33
podcast. Thank you for sharing all your
52:35
expertise and also your experiences too.
52:38
Yeah, Thank you. Thank you for having me.
52:41
Thank you for listening you excited for the next episode?
52:44
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52:48
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