Latest / FINE is a 4-Letter Word / 90. (S3E16) Rising Above Addiction, Trauma, and Shame with Kevin White

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90. (S3E16) Rising Above Addiction, Trauma, and Shame with Kevin White · FINE is a 4-Letter Word

• 0:03
  Lori Saitz: Welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word, the podcast that empowers you to say fuck being fine. Tired of being stuck in a place where you say everything's fine when it's really not fine at all. You're not alone. I'm your host, Lori Saitz. I've been there too, and so have my guests. Here's a secret. All it takes is a conscious decision to change and then restructure beliefs so your actions take you in the right direction. That's where Fine is a 4-Letter Word comes in. Each week, you'll hear inspiring stories from people who have transformed their lives and businesses and practical tips and takeaways to move you from spinning in place to forward action so you can create a life of joy. Thanks for tuning in. Let's get started. Vulnerability is the key to unlocking the truth. That's what Kevin White discovered when he started sharing the story of his pornography addiction. It was the shame behind the addiction that kept him trapped. Kevin describes himself as a farm kid from Iowa. His strong work ethic led him to a successful IT career working for billion dollar companies. And although he had a good job, marriage and family, it wasn't until his wife set some boundaries for her own well-being that Kevin realized he had to choose healing and growth for himself. It took a village and a tremendous amount of working through fear to move from a place that was less than fine to where he is today with his ability to see the best in everyone.
• 1:47
  Now, Kevin guides his coaching clients to tap into their intuition, embrace their unique gifts and believe in their own capabilities. In this episode, we delve into the challenges of overcoming addiction and grappling with the trauma behind it because almost everyone experiences them in some way or another. We talk about why he wouldn't take away one moment of his past pain, why it's important to honor the process in healing and how men especially need to do a better job of tapping into their intuition. Of course you can go to Zen rabbit.com to get your copy of the Short Guide to Working Less and Living Better. Also known as the Five Easy Ways to Start Living a Sabbatical Life. You know what else you can get there. The newly revised and released How to Feel Comfortable, Confident and Courageous at Networking Events book. Look for the link that says Networking at the top of the home page or find the link in the show notes here. Hello and welcome to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is Kevin White. Welcome to the show, Kevin. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. We had such a good conversation in our pre-show chat, so I'm eager to see what what comes out of this one.
• 3:10
  Kevin White: Yeah, me too. Never know what I'm going to say.
• 3:13
  Lori Saitz: You never know. We're going to have fun. Let's start off with I'm curious about how you were raised and what the values and beliefs that were instilled in you as a as a child that contributed to who you became as you grew up.
• 3:27
  Kevin White: Yeah, well, I was raised definitely as a Christian. There's I think that. There's a lot of different parts to that equation somewhere along the line. I took I picked up more of the judgment side of that equation than I should have. I think that might have had some something to do with my family, but also had a lot to do with my personality and my searching for, you know, what was right rather than trusting who I really was. And so then, you know, picking different people to model and and then thinking, that's right. That tends to lead to a lot more judgment than just being yourself.
• 4:14
  Lori Saitz: When you say looking for what was right. What? Explain that a little bit more. Well.
• 4:21
  Kevin White: But some of this I don't even know. So I'll give you what I do know as best as I can. But yeah, I mean, I think that when I entered the world more with a thought of danger, having world is dangerous, having to do with some of what happened to my mom before I was born. And I guess that's that's the part I do know. And so that led towards me. Wanting to find people that I could be close to that were safe, and then modeling those that were safe. And primarily my two models, which although there's a lot that they give me and that's positive, I'm not them, was my two grandpas. So from an energetic standpoint, I took a lot from them and tried to model my life after them. But I think the key word there is tried.
• 5:22
  Lori Saitz: Yeah. Well, right, because we are all individuals. And so we can look at someone else and say, I admire those characteristics or I don't care for those characteristics and I'm going to be something different. And the way it expresses itself is always going to be unique since we are. All individuals. So yeah, yeah, I think. But I can see how when you're younger you don't necessarily understand that, correct? Yep.
• 5:50
  Kevin White: And it didn't necessarily mean. I could. I guess it didn't really it did impact me younger. But it's when we get into our late 20 seconds and beyond that, it starts to really impact us. Or at least it did for me.
• 6:09
  Lori Saitz: Yeah. So tell me more about that. What what did how did you come to that realization?
• 6:15
  Kevin White: Well, through a lot of pain.
• 6:20
  Lori Saitz: So that's how a lot of us get to where we are.
• 6:24
  Kevin White: I mean, I think that. Um, so leading up to that, I got married when I was 20, almost 21, and my wife was 19. We, we really right away we clicked like the first day we were pretty much engaged within while we were engaged within three months, but we were already talking about marriage and three weeks in maybe a month, a month. And it was just very natural for us. We we were very I don't know that I necessarily believe in soulmates anymore, but I do believe in compatibility. We were very compatible. And so but the issue that came out after our marriage was my addiction. I knew we knew. I told her as well that I was addicted to pornography going into our marriage. And so but we just naively and young in a young way, young love way, I would say thought that that wouldn't be a problem. And so it wasn't at the beginning. But then as stress started to increase after we had kids and things like that, then it was. And so it put me down a journey of trying to. Trying to be what I wanted to be while still hanging on to that and still struggling with that.
• 7:49
  And so I in my mid to late 20s, I had gotten to the point where I was making decent money. Finally I was I had a good career. I was in it and I, I was starting to get a lot of opportunities. I, I'm a theoretical so as a motivator. So one of my primary well, my primary motivator. So I really love knowledge and I dig into things and so I could do well while still coping right. And so I was. I was checking all the boxes in my mind that were important. Three kids. I was I found a few areas in my life where I was present, you know, And so they started to add up and I thought I was okay, but I wasn't dealing with the really real problem. I mean, I convinced myself I was I was definitely going to God. He was helping me with the issue now and then really all the time. But I was very restricted in my asking and in my belief, let's say so anyway. So that yeah, that led me into. The next stage.
• 9:03
  Lori Saitz: Were you restricted in your asking and your belief because you didn't really want to give it up?
• 9:10
  Kevin White: No, I don't. I don't think so. I. Technically. There's been things that I've found along the way where I didn't know the truth about something, and that was. The primary issue with me giving it up as soon as I knew the truth. Then it's like, you know, I don't I want out of this. Right. And so, you know what I found out in later, fast forward another ten years is that I had witnessed some abuse when I was a little kid. And my ability to understand what love was was very small, or at least I had warped it. I thought that love was very sexual, much more that it should have been in my mind. And yeah, there was some consequences to that. And one of them was addiction.
• 10:08
  Lori Saitz: So. Okay, so it took you 20 years of managing, we'll say the addiction before. So now did you? -- I don't know how to phrase it. What do you let go of? An addiction? What is that, the like? I don't know the right terminology there. Yeah. Was that before or after you found out what you had seen as a child?
• 10:35
  Kevin White: That was definitely before. So I didn't find that out until really in the last year. So I would say what you do is you start healing an addiction, right? So what we find I have an addiction podcast, the Business Addicts podcast, and what we find in our interviews and just even my own work is that there's trauma behind every addiction. The trauma could be as simple as emotional abuse, although that's a lot more complicated than it sounds. That might be one of the hardest ones to deal with because it's not as obvious. And then also the trauma could be just not embracing our gifts, you know, or or thinking that there's something wrong about ourselves. It starts to feel like trauma is just part of life to a certain extent. I mean, I don't think we can avoid it, but yes, how they all come together. I guess the question that led me to more of the truth was I it's very normal for a young man to be exposed to pornography right at 11 or 12. I was exposed by a neighbor. And, you know, that's almost everyone is no big deal. Right? Right. My best friend walked away from it. And nothing's wrong with him, as far as I know. I mean, he didn't show any interest and I did. So the question was why? And that question led me to a lot of healing.
• 12:14
  Lori Saitz: Yeah. So it's so I really appreciate you coming on and talking about this because addictions are difficult to talk about. Just they just are like as a as a whole. And then I think talking about an addiction to porn is even more difficult because society accepts it even less than addictions to drugs or to alcohol.
• 12:37
  Kevin White: Yeah, that's interesting. I definitely agree with you. What I find interesting is pornography is very accepted in society, but addiction to it is not accepted. Right. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? Um. Yeah, so it is. I definitely didn't want to do this at the beginning, but. As all addicts find out, the more we tell our story, the more we get help. And it's right that vulnerability is the key to unlock the the the truth about us and and to be and really the shame that's behind the addiction that's that's keeping us trapped.
• 13:19
  Lori Saitz: Right. And the more that people talk about it, the more it gives other people the freedom to talk about it.
• 13:27
  Kevin White: Yes.
• 13:27
  Lori Saitz: And not to normalize it, but to normalize the vulnerability. Yep.
• 13:33
  Kevin White: Normalize the vulnerability and the fact that we can heal and and that it's. Yeah, I mean, I don't necessarily think we would ever, like, put it away on a shelf and never talk about it again. But it's gone. Yeah. You know, so.
• 13:50
  Lori Saitz: So you were so young when you got married. Like, that's just amazing to me because I remember my mom telling me to not get married before I was 30 because you don't really know who you are and you haven't developed into like a full human yet. If, you know, that's that's an ongoing entire lifetime thing. But her advice was that you really shouldn't it would be better to wait until you were older. And and I understand where she was coming from. Having got married at 22. I think she was and and not having it work out. So I'm fascinated that you and your wife were so young and just. And you're still together.
• 14:33
  Kevin White: Yeah, that's. That's actually another miracle. Um. Yes. So it's hard to know other than just the just the compatibility. But to a certain extent there there's a bigger plan here. Both of our moms died within a year. They were both around 45. I can't remember their exact age in 2006 and 2007. So we we got married young. And I don't know how this all works. I'm just telling you the facts that we got married young and had kids young, and they got to have grandkids before they passed. So, um, you know, I don't think. The result of getting married young is not all perfect, right? There is more struggle, but I wouldn't trade either one. Neither one of us. I think I can talk for Jamie safely here would have traded that experience of being with our moms before they passed. You know, with our kids. Yeah.
• 15:39
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it definitely works for. For some people. I know people, other people that it has worked for. And then there's a lot of other rest of us who needed some extra space before we made that commitment. Yeah. So she knew. So she knew about the addiction when you got married. Yeah. And and I guess was it part of the the naivety of being young, of not understanding what she was getting into or what you were both getting into?
• 16:11
  Kevin White: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, absolutely. And and we both didn't. There was really no way for both of us to know, you know, and certainly I wouldn't have told, you know, that's the thing that I think if, if it's possible to, you know, to impact other people on this, like we need to ask our kids, we need to especially males, but even females, we need to have this conversation more broadly. And that's the only way we're going to address it, because most people are not going to reach out to you about this type of addiction. It's very shame ridden and they won't do that very easily about alcohol, but definitely less about this. So yeah.
• 16:59
  Lori Saitz: But then as we talked about in our pre-show call, she's the reason she's the one who said, no more of this. Yeah. Yeah, you need to. Yeah. She reached a point where it was becoming a problem for her.
• 17:13
  Kevin White: Yeah. And I won't speak for her too much, but I'll just give you a general overview that in our podcast we talk about the addict and the enabler, and Jamie was one of those people that is still so positive about people. She's much more realistic about me now, but otherwise with other people she has better boundaries about herself, like about giving endlessly to people than she used to have. But she really believes and is very forgiving. So, I mean, I can't believe how long it took us to figure some of this out, really. But, um, yeah, I mean, you if you're focused on the destination, right, like coming back to the whole purpose of your podcast, if you're just trying to be fine, which we weren't fine, we were way less than fine. But, you know, I would say fine was the goal, you know, at least in my mind. And so behind that, there's there's that destination, that temptation of just going towards that destination continually instead of really, you know, okay, what's really possible? What could we do differently?
• 18:30
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, I love that question of what's really possible because when you start asking that. Opportunities come along. Doors open. It's a really productive question. Yeah.
• 18:46
  Kevin White: Yeah.
• 18:47
  Lori Saitz: Yeah. So how long did it -- it -- it was -- You said 20 years.
• 18:51
  Kevin White: Yeah. So I would say-
• 18:52
  Lori Saitz: Started really digging into finding. Finding the help.
• 19:00
  Kevin White: Yeah. So my help started. Well, the the years are kind of fuzzy, but let me see. I think we covered this on our podcast pretty well too, on the actual timing, but I know in 2017, 2018 is when, um, well, 2015 is when Jamie started to say. Okay, so our relationship is not good for me, so I'm going to be not. Not a typical husband and wife at, you know, for a long period of time during my starting to realize where I really was. And so that led to her choosing growth and her choosing. Um, to really step into her own gifts and, and that, you know, ultimately behind everything was going on. I really always have loved her from the beginning. She was the one that I still do, obviously. Um. It. It just a powerful thing like her. Her the beam of light that was her from the beginning was is something that God has used over and over, you know, to. And so I think most men, if they acknowledge that that's a powerful thing we can hang on to. And instead of being selfish, which ends up in divorce and, you know, I sat there several times deciding whether I wanted to go down that road and I just didn't feel like ultimately I would ever be a productive member of society if I couldn't figure this out, you know? So it started with her choosing growth, starting to work out, do coaching a bunch of different things.
• 20:46
  And really in 2017, 2018 is when that started to shift. And and I got a coach, her coach, actually, everything was led by her. And then the story goes on from there. I wouldn't say it took me a few years beyond that to even get free of addiction. Uh, not necessarily that my coach was working on that directly, but several people were helping me. I had an energy healer and him and Jamie at least, and there was others. And then beyond that, it took the last three years to really work on my everything behind the addiction, all the coping, all the. You know, there's just all kinds of mind issues because of 20 years of addiction. You really have a lot to work through.
• 21:39
  Lori Saitz: It started, though, with you following Jamie and choosing growth.
• 21:44
  Kevin White: Yes. Yep.
• 21:47
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, that's where all change happens is choosing growth because what's that book? It's called Mindset I Think by Carol Dweck.
• 21:58
  Kevin White: Okay.
• 21:58
  Lori Saitz: The fixed mindset or the growth mindset.
• 22:01
  Kevin White: Yeah.
• 22:02
  Lori Saitz: Yeah
• 22:42
  Kevin White: That's right. I mean, the fear, the thing that calls us back, or at least me back from. Our growth is fear. It's the fear of what's on the other side of that door. And at a certain at different points. I chose that. Okay. I'm afraid of what I'm going to find out. But the pain of not finding it out is greater than the than whatever's behind the door. Right. And then that was when I stepped through. And and fear is not real, obviously. It's just a figment of our imagination. But if we keep giving in to it, it'll keep us fine or less for a long time.
• 22:43
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, well, we hear that all the time. That fear is not real. But it feels real. Yes, it feels very real And how. How do you convince yourself that it's not real. Yeah.
• 22:59
  Kevin White: Well, that's why I think, you know, one of the great things about this earth is that in our lives and being a human is that there's consequences. Like I used to think that was terrible. I want to get rid of all of them, but they're here for a reason and we get in a certain. Point in our life after we've started to grow, we start to love consequences. They're good information. Like failing fast is the best way to to fail, right? Like, that's what we need.
• 23:32
  Lori Saitz: Right. They're kind of like, I don't know if guardrails is the right word, but like, they show you where to go next.
• 23:40
  Kevin White: Yes. Yep.
• 23:41
  Lori Saitz: Like, okay if I do this, this happens. If I do that, this happens. I keep saying in a lot of my episodes I've said life is an experiment. Yes. So there is no failure. You just get different results than maybe what you expected. And so the consequence is, Oh, I did that. And that happened. Huh. Interesting. What if I do this other thing? What will happen then?
• 24:03
  Kevin White: Correct, yep. Yeah. I mean, I just ran into something this week that was very draining and I couldn't figure it out right away. It took me a couple of days, and as soon as I understood what it was, it was like, Oh, man, that that makes sense. That's exactly what I need to know to move forward. And and that's after changing thousands of beliefs and millions of memories and cellular issues and emotions and just tons of growth that I've done in the last few years, especially in the last year. It's accelerated. And it really does. I mean, you think about it, if we're going to step into where our calling is and and really be all we're able to be the like we keep at least I always thought like there'd just be this magic moment and you step through a door and then everything's good, right? But that's just not the way it would be.
• 24:57
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, that'd be awesome.
• 24:58
  Kevin White: Yeah. Ultimately, it's like we choose to step through the door and then there's growth forever, right? Like, it's not going to stop. Maybe our growth will be more related to other people than ourselves at a certain point, but we're not going to be able to know when that point is.
• 25:19
  Lori Saitz: Allow me a quick moment to thank you for tuning in to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. If you're enjoying the show, please take a second to hit the follow button so you don't miss an episode. And if you haven't already, I'd love it if you would leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Podcasts. Your feedback helps the show reach more listeners like you. Fine is a 4-Letter Word is available on all major podcasting platforms, so no matter where you listen, you can stay up to date with the latest episodes. Now let's get back into the conversation. Hey, what keeps people stuck in that fear or stuck in the place where they are because they are afraid. They they consciously know if I step through this, there could be more and better on the other side. But it's comfortable here. And I say comfortable not meaning necessarily like, oh, it's all cozy. It's cozy and warm. It's familiar. Yes. And that's what makes it comfortable.
• 26:29
  Kevin White: It's very uncomfortable.
• 26:31
  Lori Saitz: Right. But you're so used to it.
• 26:34
  Kevin White: Yes.
• 26:34
  Lori Saitz: You're just like, well, this is what it is. So I so it's hard to imagine that it could be different. Yeah. And you mentioned changing things on a cellular level. So we're talking here about it wasn't just a decision like, oh, you know what, I'm going to not be how I was yesterday. Oh, I'm going to be different today. Yeah, that's a conscious decision and you have to change a lot more than that.
• 26:59
  Kevin White: Yeah. I'm so glad it's not that easy. That sounds terrible for me to say, but honestly, the growth process is the best thing. It's the best thing about life, right? And we would never want to take it away from someone. And so if you're stuck in the fear, yeah, we feel for you. But I mean, you're I just I feel a hope that the system works and our everything about this universe works. And so we can love everything about it safely. And we learn to love everything about it as we grow. And. And I'm. I'm talking as a person who has spent days, weeks, months, years in pain, you know? And I wouldn't take one moment of that away because I needed it to choose what was better and to realize the difference. Right. Because if we just automatically chose and just said, okay, I'm going to be good now. Then we would have No. You'd have no appreciation for where we've gotten. But the pain, the life in general gives us all the feedback we know we need to appreciate it to to be willing to pay the price.
• 28:25
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, well, and we live in this universe of duality, so you have to have Hot to know Cold.
• 28:33
  Kevin White: Yes. Yeah.
• 28:34
  Lori Saitz: The both sides of the coin exist at all times.
• 28:39
  Kevin White: Yeah, I think, you know, at the beginning, my wife and I, along with my sister, have started a company doing work with people, mainly with entrepreneurs and people who are starting coaching businesses. And at the beginning, we wanted to take the pain away, like we wanted to make it faster. And what we've learned over the last year is that we can't do that. And in fact. We want to be there with them as they're growing. But we we we don't have the power to take it away. And ultimately we want. Want. It's so hard for for me to say this, but we wouldn't want to take it all the way. It would be bad for them if you follow me.
• 29:24
  Lori Saitz: Yes, I do. And that is so interesting and so different from a lot of coaches who coach other coaches. They're just like, Hey, you know, you can be a success in 90 days. Just follow this path. And and then, you know, then everybody who follows is disappointed when it doesn't work for them. Yeah. And you're presenting a much more realistic approach to it.
• 29:50
  Kevin White: Yeah.
• 29:51
  Lori Saitz: And yeah.
• 29:53
  Kevin White: I anyway, we paid a lot, not just in. Natural treasure, but also in, you know, experience to figure this out. But it is it does feel way better when we just acknowledge that we need the we need the process. We absolutely need the process. And, you know, to speak to what you were talking about leading into this, around making that choice. I'll just give you an example. Last year my wife did hypnotherapy and it had a lot to do with she worked for a dad for 20 years. And then as she left, it was she had a lot of, you know, emotional pain around that and even just all the realizations around. Oh, it's a big, long story. Don't know how to sum it up. But anyway, she. She chose hypnotherapy to kind of work through it. And when she first did it, I was like. Wow. You're willing. You're just so brave. I'm amazed. And I was kind of peeking in the door a little bit as she was doing it. I was like, What's going on? Like, how is she willing to do this? And then I definitely wasn't. And then like three months later, I was I was like, I'm going to do this. I want to do it.
• 31:09
  And the thing was like, when I quit my job. Last June. May I? I thought everything would just go flow really well. I had a good business coach, my wife, I had my sister who was helping me with my podcast and who was a great like online business manager. I figured I had everything right, but I didn't realize what I was going to really go through and work for me from 12, 11, 12 years old was was how I coped. You know, I, I loved work. I loved everything I did. Everyone I worked for, every job I had, whether it was picking rocks, detasseling all the all the miserable jobs I loved. And suddenly I didn't have a job. And so. That process led me to be like, you know what? I need to know what I don't know and I don't have the time to experience. You think about it, if we're going to grow. Do we really have the time? Through experiences to find every little thing along the way. And I realized I don't and I can't I don't have enough funds to support that. So I chose to do hypnotherapy. And that was one of the things that made a big difference in in the last year.
• 32:36
  Lori Saitz: So is that something that you offer now in your coaching business or do you leave that to somebody else?
• 32:41
  Kevin White: Yeah, we leave that to someone else. Yeah. Serena Talbot is who did hypnotherapy with? She's here in Wisconsin. Okay. I think that just like anything like you want to find the person that's right for you. Right. Like I wouldn't necessarily recommend you just go find a coach that's on a list and say, Oh, I want to work with this person. Coaching is and definitely hypnotherapy and serene is very special, but we want to find the person that's right for us. Right. And that's and she was right for me. She's a good friend.
• 33:14
  Lori Saitz: That's that's cool. That's what everybody needs to do, whether it's finding a coach, finding a hypnotherapist. Finding a meditation practice or any spiritual practice because we can listen to what other people are doing and say, Huh, that's interesting. Like learn from them and then try it out and go. But it's not for me. And I'm always recommending that people continue. Testing, if you will, out trying out different things to find what works for them. And there's no shame or. You know, don't be discouraged if the first five things don't work. Yeah, keep going. Because there is something that will work and you will find it. Yeah.
• 34:04
  Kevin White: Yeah. I think maybe we have to get more intuitive, right? Like you say, the testing, this is for guys. Women are naturally more intuitive because-
• 34:14
  Lori Saitz: But they don't always listen to.
• 34:16
  Kevin White: It. I know they don't. But I think one thing culturally, it's safe for you guys, like from you as women, to a certain extent, that's how you survive even. But guys have been and I'm not saying there is no generalities here that will work for sure. We have been sedated when it comes to intuition, really like we haven't we haven't ones how many of us have really been in battle or anything that would cause us to realize it's the only way recently, like we've I'm not saying there's a lot of guys that are intuitive in some ways, but we need to rediscover our as as a gender at a much higher level what intuition is for guys. And that's one of the things I'm working on with a few of them.
• 35:07
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, that that's really important work because I think you're right. They everybody is intuitive regardless of gender. It's just a matter of tapping into it, allowing yourself to tap into it, being exposed to the fact that it even exists. You know, you hear the term women's intuition all the time, but. But we all have it, so.
• 35:31
  Kevin White: Yeah.
• 35:32
  Lori Saitz: Yeah.
• 35:33
  Very cool. So you now what you're doing is you are working with are you working exclusively with men as, as a leadership coach. Right.
• 35:43
  Kevin White: No, I, I thought I, I thought it would be, but I'm definitely supporting some women, especially women coaches. More from a coaching standpoint, I guess with guys I. I'm working as an executive coach, doing both what I would call like mental healing and energy work and coaching. That's what that's where my gifts are, is not just in coaching, but it's kind of a combination of all of them that I've gained through this process of healing myself With women. I mostly do coaching just because they've already got especially I'm already working like the ones I'm working with so far are healers or coaches, and they've got a lot of intuitive people in their network that can help them, and they're more intuitive like we already talked about. So I help more from a coaching standpoint, just coming alongside them and believing with them in the process, you know, because too many women are not. Really have not fully allowed themselves to believe in what they offer. Know you guys feel it. Sorry. I don't want to again generalize, but this is the people I'm working with. It's like there's like all this talent and then they we don't fully see it and got to step into that.
• 37:16
  Lori Saitz: That happens a lot. Yes. That that we can't see our own power, our own gifts. And I remember a mentor of mine saying many years ago that something to the effect of he was holding belief in me until I could see it for myself.
• 37:34
  Kevin White: Yeah, that's great. That's beautiful. Yeah. He's obviously knows what he's talking about. That's really powerful.
• 37:41
  Lori Saitz: Yes. Learned a lot from him.
• 37:44
  Kevin White: Yeah.
• 37:44
  Lori Saitz: So thank you again so much for joining me in this conversation. Before we go. My my. I was going to say my favorite question. I love asking all the questions, but I am especially interested in this this question. And you, you you have just such a low key energy about you. So when you need an extra boost of energy, do you have a hype song? And what is it?
• 38:14
  Kevin White: Oh, wow. Huh? You know, that's interesting. I probably should. I'm like a I sing. I'm a barbershopper. Don't force me to. I'm not.
• 38:26
  Lori Saitz: I know. I won't ask you to, but I could totally picture that.
• 38:30
  Kevin White: Um. I think that right now, anything that home free sings, just partially because they are some of them are in my voice range. Um, would be my go to. But I love so many different types of music that it's hard for me to pick. I just. I appreciate. I mean, I could probably say just as much to jazz or now that I understand opera. Yeah, it's all beautiful. One of my favorite artists, just because she's so inspiring is I'm not going to remember her name now that I've brought it up, but. Yeah, I totally forgot. That's a young lady that's. That started at, like, four singing and she inspires me. So there's so many singers that that inspire me. It's hard to answer that question, but I guess right now, probably the biggest ones are either home free or or the Oak Ridge Boys, because I've seen them in person. And I remember the 82 year old the last time I saw him, which was right during COVID jumping and and dancing and running around the stage and just so happy to be out again after COVID. And so he's inspiring for me, too. Anyone that's older that really is living their purpose is is very inspiring.
• 40:00
  Lori Saitz: Is there a particular. Oak Ridge Boys song that. You like better than the others.
• 40:08
  Kevin White: So I think for home free would be one. One is in the blood. Okay. Some good questions in that song. And for the Oak Ridge boys, there's. Oh, sorry. Names and me. Song names. And that's okay. It's so hard. But there's. They have a new album. And there is. I think there's. Like a railroad song. Sorry. So that's the closest I can get. I have to look it up.
• 40:37
  Lori Saitz: We can put that in the show notes so people can find it there. How about that?
• 40:41
  Kevin White: I'll email you.
• 40:42
  Lori Saitz: All right. And if they want to continue a conversation with you, Kevin, where's the best place for people to find you?
• 40:49
  Kevin White: Well, I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me also at Kevin Whitcomb and then believe Jcrew.com.
• 40:57
  Lori Saitz: Okay, cool. I'll put links in the show notes for that as well.
• 41:03
  Kevin White: All right. Thank you very much. Nice to talk to you
• 41:04
  Lori Saitz: Again, thank you so much for joining me here on Fine is a 4-Letter Word.
• 41:09
  Kevin White: Thank you. Appreciate it.
• 41:14
  Lori Saitz: Kevin brought up an interesting point about pornography that I think applies to all types of addiction, that pornography is societally accepted, but addiction to it is not. That's what keeps people trapped in the shame. What an honor to participate in this conversation. I'm so grateful for Kevin's willingness to share his story. Here are the key takeaways. Number one, trauma is a part of life. None of us avoid it. What we can do is acknowledge it and then heal. Number two, for people suffering from addiction, there's power in sharing your story. By being vulnerable, you uncover your own truth and overcome the shame that keeps you trapped in a negative cycle. Number three All change in life comes from consciously choosing growth. Number four, when you start asking yourself what's possible? More opportunities come along. Number five, instead of wishing it away, find gratitude for your pain. It's a required part of the process of upleveling your life. Thanks for listening to Fine is a 4-Letter Word. If you've enjoyed the show, please follow and share it with a friend. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite platform to help others discover it too. You can find links to my socials on my website Zen rabbit.com. And before you go, take a moment to reflect on what you're grateful for today. Remember, you have the power to create a life you love, and I'm proud of you. Thanks for joining me. Take care.