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The "Let Trump Be Trump" Strategy · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau and hosting
0:22
Speaker 1: with me today, my friend, mentor, the man I miss
0:25
Speaker 1: working with every day, the brilliant David Axelrod is here.
0:29
Speaker 2: Brother, good to see you. I guess the stars are
0:33
Speaker 2: on vacation and left you to man the ship here.
0:36
Speaker 2: Those boys are off doing something.
0:39
Speaker 1: They're doing something. I got all three PSAs this week.
0:43
Speaker 1: So on today's show, we're going to talk about Kamala
0:45
Speaker 1: Harris's plans to define her economic agenda this week. Tim
0:49
Speaker 1: Walz stepping out on his own with a big union speech.
0:52
Speaker 1: We're also less than a week away from the Democratic
0:53
Speaker 1: National Convention. So we'll talk about the opportunity there for
0:56
Speaker 1: the Harris team and what we're hoping to hear. But first,
1:00
Speaker 1: Donald Trump just keeps reaching voters where they are with
1:03
Speaker 1: his hallmark message discipline, which is why I guess he
1:06
Speaker 1: appeared on a glitchy Twitter Spaces feed with red-pilled billionaire
1:11
Speaker 1: Elon Musk that took about 40 minutes to get started
1:14
Speaker 1: because of all the tech issues. Once they finally got going,
1:17
Speaker 1: it was two hours of this.
1:20
Speaker 3: Our country is becoming a very dangerous place. And she
1:23
Speaker 3: is a radical left San Francisco liberal. And now she's
1:27
Speaker 3: trying to protect. Now she's looking like she wants to
1:30
Speaker 3: be more Trump than Trump, if that's possible. I don't
1:33
Speaker 3: think it's possible. If she's going to be our president,
1:37
Speaker 3: very quickly you're not going to have a country anymore.
1:40
Speaker 3: And she'll go back to all of the things that
1:42
Speaker 3: she believes in. But she's getting a free ride.
1:44
Speaker 2: I saw a picture of her on.
1:46
Speaker 3: Time magazine today. She looked like the most beautiful actress
1:50
Speaker 3: ever to live. It was a drawing. And actually, she
1:54
Speaker 3: looked very much like our great first lady, Melania. She
2:00
Speaker 3: didn't look like Camilla, that's right. But of course, she's
2:02
Speaker 3: a beautiful woman, so we'll leave it at that, right? Now,
2:06
Speaker 3: Biden's close to vegetable stage, in my opinion. I looked
2:11
Speaker 3: at him today on the beach, and I said, why
2:13
Speaker 3: would anybody allow him The guy could barely walk. Well, you,
2:18
Speaker 3: you're the greatest cutter. I mean, I look at what
2:20
Speaker 3: you do. You walk in and you just say, you
2:22
Speaker 3: want to quit?
2:23
Speaker 1: They go on strike.
2:24
Speaker 3: I won't mention the name of the company, but they
2:26
Speaker 3: go on strike and you say, that's okay. You're all gone.
2:30
Speaker 1: Axe, did you catch any of what the Trump campaign
2:33
Speaker 1: billed as the interview of the century?
2:35
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:36
Speaker 2: Well, it felt like it took a century. I'll say that.
2:40
Speaker 2: In fact, the 40 minute delay was sort of a
2:42
Speaker 2: metaphor for where their campaign has been since Kamala Harris
2:46
Speaker 2: became the candidate because they can't get started. And it's
2:49
Speaker 2: just him out there really grieving the fact that this
2:55
Speaker 2: race that he thought he had won is now competitive.
2:58
Speaker 2: And he doesn't quite know how to handle her, how
3:03
Speaker 2: to deal with her as a candidate. And you can
3:05
Speaker 2: see him just throwing stuff against the wall, which is how,
3:08
Speaker 2: by the way, he approaches his speeches. You know, at
3:12
Speaker 2: the one of the notable things at the Republican convention was,
3:17
Speaker 2: you know, they they all said, well, this near death
3:20
Speaker 2: experience of the assassination attempt has changed him. He's a
3:23
Speaker 2: changed man and he's ripped up his speech and he
3:26
Speaker 2: really wants to talk about unity in this speech. Well,
3:29
Speaker 2: he talked about unity for about seven minutes, wasn't going
3:33
Speaker 2: over well with the crowd at the convention. So he
3:36
Speaker 2: threw it out and just went back to his rip snorting,
3:39
Speaker 2: you know, divisive. uh you know stand-up shtick uh that's
3:45
Speaker 2: what he's been there ever since he has he has
3:48
Speaker 2: and and and really i mean we could talk a
3:50
Speaker 2: little bit about this sort of strategic or lack of
3:54
Speaker 2: strategic wisdom of that but yeah the interview was a
3:57
Speaker 2: disaster and my favorite part was elon musk trying to
4:01
Speaker 2: break in you know thinking how am i gonna dragoon
4:05
Speaker 2: this guy uh away from the mic for a second
4:09
Speaker 2: here Yeah, it's.
4:10
Speaker 1: Two small egos. It does seem like some of the
4:15
Speaker 1: news out of that interview was he handed Democrats a
4:17
Speaker 1: bit of a win by praising Elon for firing workers
4:19
Speaker 1: who want to unionize.
4:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, UAW filed a complaint with the Labor Department after
4:24
Speaker 2: that for intimidation.
4:26
Speaker 3: Yep.
4:26
Speaker 1: And then the Teamsters, who the president spoke at the
4:30
Speaker 1: Republican National Convention— put out a statement calling it economic terrorism.
4:36
Speaker 1: You think that's the message the Trump campaign was going for?
4:38
Speaker 2: No, you know, honestly, it does raise a serious question
4:44
Speaker 2: or should in the minds of union workers around the country.
4:49
Speaker 2: The fact that Trump so admires union busting tactics should
4:55
Speaker 2: really tell them something. And I think it'd be harder
4:59
Speaker 2: for any labor leader with a straight face to go
5:03
Speaker 2: and talk to the members and say, you know, this
5:06
Speaker 2: is our guy after something like that. So, you know,
5:10
Speaker 2: I'm sure Musk was very excited to be lionized in
5:14
Speaker 2: that way. That probably, he felt, well, this really helps me.
5:18
Speaker 2: But no, listen, Donald Trump is out of control right now.
5:24
Speaker 2: I think he is rattled. He feels like he could
5:28
Speaker 2: lose this race. And remember, losing this race for him
5:32
Speaker 2: carries a much greater risk than it would for the
5:35
Speaker 2: normal candidate because he still has these legal issues to face,
5:38
Speaker 2: including one conviction with sentencing still awaiting. So, you know,
5:45
Speaker 2: I think that he is completely out of sync and
5:48
Speaker 2: out of sorts. And that's redounded, frankly, to Kamala Harris's benefit.
5:54
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the Trump strategy, because I noticed
5:57
Speaker 1: this morning just before we started recording that Trump is
5:59
Speaker 1: scheduling another press conference for Thursday outside at Bedminster, his
6:05
Speaker 1: country club in New Jersey. So it sort of feels
6:08
Speaker 1: like they're going with a let Trump be Trump strategy
6:12
Speaker 1: or like a more Trump is better strategy. Do you
6:14
Speaker 1: think that's smart?
6:15
Speaker 2: No. And I wonder how much that is their strategy
6:19
Speaker 2: and how much that it's his strategy. You know, because
6:23
Speaker 2: Trump believes that he is the best ball carrier. And
6:27
Speaker 2: his idea is, just call my number on every play
6:30
Speaker 2: and we'll get to the end zone. And he keeps
6:33
Speaker 2: going backwards. And he keeps getting tackled behind the line
6:37
Speaker 2: of scrimmage. And yet he wants to get up and
6:39
Speaker 2: call the same play again. No, it doesn't make any sense.
6:42
Speaker 2: You know, look, if you were over there, if you
6:45
Speaker 2: were saying, well, what would be a sensible strategy? What
6:47
Speaker 2: you'd try and do is make her the incumbent. You
6:51
Speaker 2: try and link her to, you know, Biden's economic policies and,
6:56
Speaker 2: you know, all the things that, you know, certainly the border,
6:59
Speaker 2: which they're trying to do. But what's happened and what
7:03
Speaker 2: they've allowed to happen is she has become the turn
7:07
Speaker 2: the page candidate in this race. She is the vice
7:09
Speaker 2: president of the United States, and yet she is the
7:11
Speaker 2: turn the page candidate in this race. She has changed.
7:15
Speaker 2: He is the embattled incumbent. And that is a huge,
7:20
Speaker 2: huge strategic problem for them. I suspect because they've been
7:24
Speaker 2: a very competent campaign, leaving him aside, that, you know,
7:29
Speaker 2: Chris LaCivita and Susie Wiles and some of the sort
7:32
Speaker 2: of rational professionals around him recognize this. But I wonder
7:37
Speaker 2: how much control they have over Trump right now.
7:40
Speaker 1: Doesn't sound like much. I mean, like, I think that they're,
7:43
Speaker 1: if you look at their ads... you know, they're sort
7:46
Speaker 1: of settling on a message that she's the San Francisco
7:49
Speaker 1: liberal trying to tie her to the Biden administration on
7:52
Speaker 1: inflation and the border. But you can't just run a
7:55
Speaker 1: campaign based on television ads. You need a candidate to
7:58
Speaker 1: deliver the message too.
7:59
Speaker 2: I think people miss this, that, you know, especially at
8:03
Speaker 2: this phase in a campaign where these candidates are covered
8:06
Speaker 2: wall to wall, that the candidate has to be in
8:10
Speaker 2: concert with the paid media message and Because people are
8:14
Speaker 2: going to default to what they see that's unscripted. So
8:18
Speaker 2: when he's out there and he's talking, that is the
8:21
Speaker 2: thing that's going to be the signal to people as
8:23
Speaker 2: to what the campaign is about. And so even if
8:27
Speaker 2: you thought that the spots that they're running, I have
8:30
Speaker 2: a couple of some thoughts on that, that the spots
8:33
Speaker 2: that they're running are exactly the right spots. If he's
8:35
Speaker 2: doing something completely different, it's going to erode the efficacy
8:40
Speaker 2: of those spots. I think that they're, you know, they
8:44
Speaker 2: love on their side the whole kind of Willie Horton,
8:48
Speaker 2: scary left-wing radical message. And it may be energizing to
8:53
Speaker 2: the base, but she just doesn't look or seem like
8:57
Speaker 2: that person. And the more people see of her, the
9:02
Speaker 2: less she looks like that, or the less credible that is.
9:06
Speaker 2: I suspect this convention that's coming up, and we'll talk
9:09
Speaker 2: about that in a bit, is going to be more
9:13
Speaker 2: evidence that she's very much in the mainstream and very
9:15
Speaker 2: focused on the day-to-day experiences of people. And so I
9:22
Speaker 2: think they're overshooting the runway, you know, and it may
9:27
Speaker 2: make what they're doing less effective.
9:30
Speaker 1: It seems like it's not just Trump struggling to come
9:34
Speaker 1: up with a message or an explanation for Kamala Harris's appeal.
9:38
Speaker 1: Kellyanne Conway, who was Trump's campaign manager in 16, she
9:41
Speaker 1: was on Fox last night venting about Kamala Harris. Let's listen.
9:46
Speaker 4: Kamala Harris is just one big old blind date, and
9:50
Speaker 4: everybody's making her whatever they need her to be. She's
9:53
Speaker 4: so good-looking. She's so smart. She's so wealthy. She's so funny.
9:57
Speaker 4: She's close to her mom. She goes on really cool vacation.
10:00
Speaker 4: She'll never break your heart. Everybody's making her what they
10:03
Speaker 4: need her to be.
10:04
Speaker 1: I'm Kamala Harris and I approve that message.
10:06
Speaker 3: Exactly. Exactly.
10:09
Speaker 1: It does. It reminded me a little bit of how
10:12
Speaker 1: the McCain campaign sort of approached Obama in the summer
10:17
Speaker 1: and early fall of 2008. Did you think of that too? Yes.
10:21
Speaker 2: Although they presented an alternative. What made their, yes, they
10:27
Speaker 2: said he's, you know, he's like the Paris Hilton. It's
10:30
Speaker 2: a name from the past. The Paris Hilton of politics,
10:34
Speaker 2: meaning starve, but nobody knows why. That was their And,
10:38
Speaker 2: you know, he's drawing this big crowds, but why? But
10:41
Speaker 2: the bigger, the thing that made that message actually somewhat
10:44
Speaker 2: concerning to me at that time was the flip side,
10:47
Speaker 2: which is John McCain's all about country first. You know,
10:51
Speaker 2: they had a positive message for him that made him
10:56
Speaker 2: look big and substantive and, you know, larger than life
11:01
Speaker 2: against this cartoon character that they were creating or trying
11:05
Speaker 2: to sell about. Obama and that got shattered when he
11:11
Speaker 2: named Sarah Palin as the VP candidate, which wasn't exactly,
11:15
Speaker 2: I had great admiration for John McCain, but I think
11:17
Speaker 2: even he would say that probably wasn't the country first move. So,
11:22
Speaker 2: you know, but yes, I think, listen, she's not wrong, John.
11:26
Speaker 2: I mean, she's, she, there, there is such a sense
11:29
Speaker 2: of relief in this country that there's an actual choice
11:34
Speaker 2: other than the one they feared there would be. And
11:38
Speaker 2: she is coming across really well, and people are imputing
11:41
Speaker 2: to her a lot of qualities that they hope that
11:44
Speaker 2: she has. And it's up to her to deepen that
11:46
Speaker 2: feeling through the telling of her story and the telling
11:50
Speaker 2: of other people's stories who she's connected with. So she's
11:56
Speaker 2: not wrong about that, and I'm sure it's frustrating. But
12:00
Speaker 2: the question is, Barack Obama ultimately didn't disappoint. Barack Obama
12:05
Speaker 2: was largely the person that they hoped he would be.
12:09
Speaker 2: I think the standard for her is a little lower.
12:12
Speaker 2: The race is shorter. The opponent is more flawed. I
12:17
Speaker 2: think she just needs to be an acceptable alternative to
12:20
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. I mean, a majority of people in this
12:24
Speaker 2: country do not want to vote for Donald Trump. They
12:27
Speaker 2: just want an acceptable alternative.
12:29
Speaker 3: Yes.
12:29
Speaker 1: And the story of the Democratic Party since 2016 is
12:34
Speaker 1: that at all levels, when we have nominated and put
12:38
Speaker 1: forward candidates, Senate, House, Governor, President, who are mainstream Democrats,
12:44
Speaker 1: broadly acceptable to most of the electorate, Democrats tend to win,
12:50
Speaker 1: especially running against MAGA candidates or people like Trump. And
12:53
Speaker 1: I think that's one reason why.
12:55
Speaker 2: Joe Biden- And nobody's like Trump more than Trump.
12:57
Speaker 3: Right.
12:58
Speaker 1: And obviously it's why Joe Biden won in 2020, and
13:02
Speaker 1: it seems like in 2024, he was no longer broadly
13:05
Speaker 1: acceptable to the electorate because of age concerns. And she is,
13:10
Speaker 1: you know, I saw this, Nate Cohn said this in
13:11
Speaker 1: the New York Times, she's basically like a generic Democrat now.
13:14
Speaker 1: That's not an insult. That's an asset, you know?
13:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. I will say, and you know, I've gotten scolded
13:20
Speaker 2: by your friends on social media about saying.
13:24
Speaker 1: This, Not my friends. I get scolded too. We're both
13:31
Speaker 1: in the crosshairs.
13:31
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a very close race.
13:34
Speaker 1: Okay.
13:35
Speaker 2: I'm not sure what would happen if the election were
13:37
Speaker 2: called today. She's clearly got momentum. She's closed the gap.
13:41
Speaker 2: What was a clear Trump advantage is now a coin
13:46
Speaker 2: flip race. And she's closed the gap in a lot
13:48
Speaker 2: of these battleground states. I don't think to the degree
13:51
Speaker 2: the New York Times poll suggested. But still, she's in
13:55
Speaker 2: the hunt and she could win some or all of
13:59
Speaker 2: those states. So, you know, this is a real race. But,
14:04
Speaker 2: you know, they say in baseball, look the ball into
14:07
Speaker 2: the glove. In other words, when the ball comes your way,
14:11
Speaker 2: don't assume you're going to catch it. Look the ball
14:14
Speaker 2: into the glove. There's a lot of work to be
14:16
Speaker 2: done between now and November for Kamala Harris to win
14:19
Speaker 2: this race. but she's in a position to win this race,
14:22
Speaker 2: which is an amazing turnaround in just one month's time.
14:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, my view of the race is that she is
14:29
Speaker 1: much closer now to Biden 2020 numbers than obviously Biden
14:34
Speaker 1: 2024 numbers. But Biden won 2020 by 40,000 votes across
14:37
Speaker 1: a couple of states. And I think the difference, other
14:41
Speaker 1: than the increased enthusiasm and sort of the base coming
14:45
Speaker 1: home for her with Biden is that she's opened up
14:49
Speaker 1: sort of more paths to 270 than he had because
14:52
Speaker 1: it seems like the blue wall states are still easiest.
14:55
Speaker 1: But now we got, you know, Georgia's back in play
14:59
Speaker 1: and Arizona, Nevada, maybe even North Carolina. So she has
15:03
Speaker 1: more of a chance, but it still seems like she
15:05
Speaker 1: hasn't even quite hit Biden 2020 numbers with a lot
15:08
Speaker 1: of demographic groups.
15:10
Speaker 2: I mean, there's work to be done. The convention will
15:12
Speaker 2: help do some of that work. The debate, obviously, is
15:15
Speaker 2: going to be very important. But think about this, you know,
15:22
Speaker 2: because she because this happened so late, she now they
15:27
Speaker 2: had their convention already. She has her convention. That convention
15:32
Speaker 2: will take us to the end of the month, basically,
15:34
Speaker 2: because you've got Labor Day in there. And then 10
15:37
Speaker 2: days after that, you've got the debate. And I like
15:41
Speaker 2: her chances of doing better than the last debate. that
15:46
Speaker 2: we saw. But I think, you know, Trump can call,
15:49
Speaker 2: you know, Trump for playing to, you know, race and
15:54
Speaker 2: bias and all that stuff, you know, calls her low
15:58
Speaker 2: IQ and all that stuff. I hope he goes into
16:03
Speaker 2: the debate with that attitude because what he's going to
16:06
Speaker 2: find is someone who's very, very good at forensics and
16:11
Speaker 2: at debate. So, you know, she could extend her momentum
16:17
Speaker 2: into late September. And then, you know, lots of folks
16:21
Speaker 2: are voting around this country or starting to vote around
16:23
Speaker 2: this country. So she's in a very, um, advantageous, uh, position. And, um,
16:31
Speaker 2: I mean, it turned out to be a gift that
16:33
Speaker 2: Biden waited as long as he did to, uh, I
16:37
Speaker 2: know the Trump people think it was a big conspiracy. I,
16:40
Speaker 2: to me, um, you.
16:41
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, exactly. Exactly.
16:45
Speaker 5: Exactly.
16:45
Speaker 2: They're imputing too much to the Democratic Party.
16:48
Speaker 1: One quick thing before we go to break. We are
16:50
Speaker 1: so grateful that you all listen to the show. We're
16:53
Speaker 1: asking you to take it a step further and take
16:54
Speaker 1: a few seconds to share an episode with five of
16:57
Speaker 1: your friends to remind them what's at stake in November.
17:00
Speaker 1: Like one of those old email chains your kooky aunt
17:03
Speaker 1: used to send promising seven years of bad luck if
17:06
Speaker 1: you didn't share. Except instead of seven years of bad luck,
17:09
Speaker 1: it's four more years of Donald Trump and the rest
17:10
Speaker 1: of our natural lives under his Supreme Court appointees. Head
17:14
Speaker 1: on over to Apple or your preferred podcast platform now
17:17
Speaker 1: to make sure you're following our show and click share.
17:20
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. Well, let's talk about what Kamala
17:34
Speaker 1: Harris is doing to define herself this week. Even though
17:37
Speaker 1: she currently has maybe the slightest lead in the polls,
17:40
Speaker 1: Trump still has a lead in most polls on the
17:42
Speaker 1: question of who voters trust to handle the economy, and
17:45
Speaker 1: voters still rank affordability and cost of living issues as
17:49
Speaker 1: their top issues. So Harris is going to be delivering
17:52
Speaker 1: her first big policy speech on Friday in North Carolina.
17:55
Speaker 1: She's going to reportedly focus on lowering the cost of groceries, housing,
17:59
Speaker 1: and health care, according to Axios, which says this will
18:02
Speaker 1: be part of an effort by Harris to put some
18:04
Speaker 1: distance between herself and her current boss, Joe Biden. Trump's
18:08
Speaker 1: going to give an economic speech of his own later
18:10
Speaker 1: tonight in North Carolina. His campaign also took a whack
18:13
Speaker 1: at Harris in response to today's inflation numbers, which were
18:16
Speaker 1: actually pretty good, dipping below 3% for the first time
18:18
Speaker 1: since 2021. But Trump said that, quote, under Kamala Harris,
18:22
Speaker 1: everything costs 20% more than it did under Donald Trump.
18:25
Speaker 1: Working families are having to pay 30% more for baby
18:28
Speaker 1: food and the price of gasoline is up 50%. Certainly
18:31
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like Trump's voice. The statement also branded this Kamalanomics.
18:36
Speaker 2: Is that right?
18:37
Speaker 1: Kamalanomics, which it really rolls off the tongue.
18:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
18:42
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear him say that. But look, those
18:46
Speaker 2: words are the, you know, if you were running their campaign,
18:49
Speaker 2: those would be the right words, right? Try and impute
18:52
Speaker 2: everything that people hate about the economy to her and
18:54
Speaker 2: shift their, you know, their dissatisfaction from Biden to her.
19:00
Speaker 2: You know, I think, you know, when you hear some,
19:03
Speaker 2: there'll be obviously new elements to her economic program. Some
19:06
Speaker 2: of it will be familiar. The difference is, you know,
19:11
Speaker 2: in a strange way, Biden was so eager to get
19:16
Speaker 2: credit for his economic accomplishments that when he talked about
19:20
Speaker 2: the economy, he talked a lot about himself and what
19:23
Speaker 2: he had done. And what she's done very well in
19:27
Speaker 2: the first weeks of this campaign, and what I suspect
19:30
Speaker 2: she'll do well in this speech, is to talk about
19:33
Speaker 2: people and the lives that people are living and their
19:37
Speaker 2: struggles and aspirations and how we can help, how she
19:41
Speaker 2: can help, how government can help and make it prospective
19:45
Speaker 2: and make it value oriented and less about her than
19:48
Speaker 2: about them. You know, and I think that's really important.
19:51
Speaker 1: It seems like she's also going to try to be
19:54
Speaker 1: a little bit more economically populist, specifically towards corporations and
20:00
Speaker 1: price gouging. And she, of course, has a record to
20:04
Speaker 1: back that up. When she was attorney general of California,
20:06
Speaker 1: she took on the banks.
20:08
Speaker 2: You know, Biden, Joe, but on that, Favs, you know,
20:10
Speaker 2: Biden did try and do that. He just wasn't very,
20:13
Speaker 2: he didn't seem particularly wedded to the words. You know,
20:17
Speaker 2: he didn't, it didn't, it seemed sort of synthetic. Whereas it's,
20:22
Speaker 2: you know, she seems a little bit more connected to
20:24
Speaker 2: the words. And maybe it is her tenure as Attorney
20:28
Speaker 2: General where she fought a lot for consumers and against,
20:31
Speaker 2: you know, banks and, you know, for-profit colleges and pharmaceutical
20:38
Speaker 2: companies and so on.
20:40
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of that is, you know, Biden
20:43
Speaker 1: always had sort of the Scranton Joe persona at times.
20:46
Speaker 1: And I always thought that was his most effective economic message. And,
20:51
Speaker 1: you know, I was always wondering how much is just
20:53
Speaker 1: being in the White House, right? And you have all
20:55
Speaker 1: this economic policy and you have all these people trying
20:57
Speaker 1: to like get their policies in and sort of, tout
21:00
Speaker 1: accomplishments because you're, you feel like you're in a foxhole
21:03
Speaker 1: and everything, and you're beleaguered all the time by the press.
21:06
Speaker 1: And so you want to like make, you know, make
21:07
Speaker 1: sure you get credit for stuff. Yes.
21:08
Speaker 2: I know the syndrome. I think we, we were subject
21:11
Speaker 2: to it from that time.
21:12
Speaker 1: For sure. For sure. And it feels like she is, um,
21:15
Speaker 1: in a way unburdened by all that, uh, or at
21:17
Speaker 1: least has learned the lessons of that. And it's like, well, look,
21:19
Speaker 1: I got less than a hundred days left. I might
21:20
Speaker 1: as well run a campaign, you know, and I don't
21:22
Speaker 1: think it's contradictory. She can say, you know, we did
21:25
Speaker 1: some great things in the White House, but prices are
21:28
Speaker 1: too high and people are still struggling. And that's going
21:30
Speaker 1: to be my main focus.
21:31
Speaker 2: And Biden tried to do that, but it always was
21:33
Speaker 2: sort of an afterthought, you know, after a litany of,
21:40
Speaker 2: you know, accomplishments and insistence that, which is statistically true
21:45
Speaker 2: that the U.S. has outperformed all the other countries and
21:48
Speaker 2: so on. Even that, you know, you would advise a candidate,
21:52
Speaker 2: give the credit to the American people And their hard work,
21:56
Speaker 2: you know, but be that as it may. Yeah, I
22:00
Speaker 2: think that I think she's going to push forward. And
22:04
Speaker 2: what she's going to try and do is say, here's
22:06
Speaker 2: what I am going to do. I think she'll do
22:08
Speaker 2: the same, by the way, on immigration. She's doing the
22:10
Speaker 2: same on immigration. She's pushing the conversation into the future,
22:16
Speaker 2: giving people a sense of what she would do. And
22:18
Speaker 2: she's definitely carving out her own identity as a candidate.
22:23
Speaker 1: How detailed do you think she should get on economic proposals?
22:28
Speaker 1: I saw the New York Times story about this, and
22:30
Speaker 1: it basically said she's going to be light on details. And,
22:33
Speaker 1: you know, of course, the downside of that is then
22:35
Speaker 1: the press complains that you're not detailed enough in your agenda,
22:38
Speaker 1: and maybe it opens you up to attacks from Republicans,
22:41
Speaker 1: though Donald Trump is not so detailed on his agenda either.
22:44
Speaker 1: But the upside is that you know, you're talking in
22:48
Speaker 1: values and, and also like, you want to give yourself
22:52
Speaker 1: a little room and not, you're not sort of debate
22:55
Speaker 1: yourself and, and, and open up a debate within the
22:58
Speaker 1: party over like details of a healthcare plan. We all
23:02
Speaker 1: want to do that in 2020.
23:03
Speaker 2: I say this behind your back and I will say
23:05
Speaker 2: it on your podcast. You are one of the great
23:09
Speaker 2: presidential speech writers of all time. And it was such
23:12
Speaker 2: a pleasure to work with you and read your prose and,
23:16
Speaker 2: which often was poetry to me. But you remember, because
23:22
Speaker 2: you wrote a lot of these speeches, when Barack Obama
23:24
Speaker 2: was in a deep hole in the fall of 2011
23:29
Speaker 2: after the debt ceiling debacle of the summer of 2011.
23:34
Speaker 2: And we were looking forward to a race that we
23:35
Speaker 2: thought would be with Mitt Romney at a time when
23:38
Speaker 2: people were very jaundiced about the economy, angry at Wall Street,
23:42
Speaker 2: angry at the the people who had precipitated the financial crisis.
23:47
Speaker 2: And you wrote a series of speeches, including one that
23:53
Speaker 2: he gave at Osawatomie, Kansas, where Teddy Roosevelt gave his
23:58
Speaker 2: new nationalism speech. And yes, there were specifics in those speeches,
24:06
Speaker 2: but there was a fundamental sense of values, of identification
24:13
Speaker 2: with people working people, and so on, that were so
24:17
Speaker 2: much more important. Because at the end of the day,
24:19
Speaker 2: even on election day, Mitt Romney won the polling on
24:23
Speaker 2: who is best suited to manage the economy. Barack Obama
24:28
Speaker 2: won the day on who's going to fight for me.
24:32
Speaker 2: And that was what was conveyed in those speeches. So
24:36
Speaker 2: I wouldn't worry about the spectators on the sideline who were...
24:39
Speaker 2: And it also gives her a chance to unpack some
24:42
Speaker 2: of the things that'll be in that speech and offer
24:45
Speaker 2: a little more detail down the line and focus on,
24:48
Speaker 2: you know, a specific economic challenge. So I'm fine with it.
24:54
Speaker 1: Now, Trump is leading her on the question of who
24:57
Speaker 1: do you trust to handle the economy, manage the economy
25:00
Speaker 1: by certainly more than Romney did Obama on election day.
25:05
Speaker 1: Do you think that she needs to narrow that gap
25:07
Speaker 1: a little? Or do you think she just needs to
25:09
Speaker 1: sort of reframe the choice about who's on your side?
25:12
Speaker 2: I think you've got to stick to the fight that
25:16
Speaker 2: you can win and that ultimately I think will be
25:20
Speaker 2: more determinative in terms of the people's votes who you
25:23
Speaker 2: need to get. And that is, you know, is she
25:29
Speaker 2: connected to my life? Does she understand my struggle? And
25:32
Speaker 2: will she try and do things to help me? to
25:35
Speaker 2: help me in my life and people like me and
25:37
Speaker 2: my kids and so on. I think that one of
25:41
Speaker 2: the things that's coursing through this race is whatever Donald
25:44
Speaker 2: Trump says, and yes, people say, I did better when
25:47
Speaker 2: he was there. He still has a patina of economic
25:50
Speaker 2: mastery that flowed from 14 years of a bullshit reality show.
25:55
Speaker 2: But there is this lingering feeling that he augments every
25:59
Speaker 2: day that really what he cares about is himself. And
26:03
Speaker 2: if you want to get into a fight about the economy,
26:05
Speaker 2: Understand that the centerpiece of his economic plan is another
26:10
Speaker 2: huge tax cut for the same people he gave a
26:13
Speaker 2: huge tax cut to the last time. And the question is,
26:16
Speaker 2: that reflects his economic priorities. Elon Musk is his economic priority.
26:25
Speaker 2: So I think there's a great contrast to be set
26:28
Speaker 2: up here. And you shouldn't get focused on the things
26:30
Speaker 2: that you may not win. Just focus on the things
26:33
Speaker 2: you need to win the race.
26:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. Tim Walz made his solo debut
26:38
Speaker 1: with a speech to a convention of public sector union members.
26:42
Speaker 1: Here's a little bit of what he said. You heard
26:44
Speaker 1: the story.
26:45
Speaker 5: You knew Vice President Harris grew up in a middle
26:47
Speaker 5: class family, picked up shifts at that McDonald's as a student.
26:51
Speaker 1: I keep asking this to.
26:52
Speaker 5: Make a contrast here. Can you simply picture Donald Trump
26:57
Speaker 5: working at a McDonald's trying to make a McFlurry or something?
26:59
Speaker 1: It's Oh, he knows, he knows us, he knows us.
27:03
Speaker 5: He couldn't run that damn McFlurry machine if it tells
27:06
Speaker 5: him anything. So he sits there and tells his friends,
27:09
Speaker 5: you're rich as hell and we're going to cut your taxes.
27:13
Speaker 5: I believe him when he says that. But he also
27:16
Speaker 5: turns around and tells workers their wages are too high.
27:20
Speaker 5: I keep bringing this up.
27:22
Speaker 1: Who do you know.
27:24
Speaker 5: Who's asking to cut taxes on billionaires while stiffing working people?
27:29
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody. how do you think Walsh did there?
27:32
Speaker 1: What do you, and what do you think about him
27:33
Speaker 1: as a messenger?
27:35
Speaker 2: Well, he's obviously a, he is a very, very talented communicator,
27:39
Speaker 2: you know, um, and that's why he is where he is.
27:42
Speaker 2: He basically talked his way into this position by doing
27:46
Speaker 2: every network, but the home and garden network, uh, in
27:49
Speaker 2: the weeks leading up to the vice presidential decision. And
27:52
Speaker 2: what you see is a guy who he speaks in
27:54
Speaker 2: a colloquial way that is very accessible to people. And, um,
28:00
Speaker 2: So he is a, you know, I mean, there'll be
28:02
Speaker 2: debate about the vice presidential pick if Kamala Harris loses
28:07
Speaker 2: the race and she loses it by the margin of
28:10
Speaker 2: losing the state of Pennsylvania. And there'll be a revisiting
28:13
Speaker 2: of this. But Walsh is a he's he is one
28:18
Speaker 2: of these sort of he sneaks up on you.
28:22
Speaker 4: Right.
28:22
Speaker 2: He's he's like he is a great communicator who is
28:27
Speaker 2: comes in the package of every man. And so I
28:31
Speaker 2: think he's good. I will say when he was talking, though,
28:33
Speaker 2: that Trump may not have worked in a McDonald's, but
28:39
Speaker 2: he certainly patronizes McDonald's. And probably more than Kamala Harris does,
28:45
Speaker 2: from what I can see.
28:47
Speaker 1: He's much more on the other side of the counter. Exactly.
28:50
Speaker 2: As usual, he's the consumer.
28:54
Speaker 1: I thought that the McDonald's hit, the way that Walls
28:58
Speaker 1: did the comparison, was funny and great. I also liked
29:02
Speaker 1: the latter half of that clip where he really got
29:04
Speaker 1: into the, what you were saying is Trump wanting to
29:07
Speaker 1: give a tax cuts to his friends. Because then I
29:09
Speaker 1: think it sort of connects the character of each with
29:12
Speaker 1: the policy, which is probably the connection you want to
29:14
Speaker 1: make there.
29:15
Speaker 2: This is why the debate is so important, because she
29:19
Speaker 2: can really prosecute this case on that stage. I mean,
29:24
Speaker 2: the fact is that, you know, Trump, you know, policy
29:29
Speaker 2: is pretty meaningless to Trump. And he doesn't go very
29:33
Speaker 2: deep on it. But this is the centerpiece of his
29:36
Speaker 2: first term, this tax cut. And he's promised to make
29:39
Speaker 2: it permanent. $ 4. 5 trillion over the next decade. And I
29:44
Speaker 2: think there are a lot of folks in America who
29:46
Speaker 2: probably have a different set of priorities. And it's just
29:51
Speaker 2: hanging there for her.
29:53
Speaker 1: Do you think that his position on tariffs, the sort
29:56
Speaker 1: of the across the board tariff on everything imported that
30:01
Speaker 1: would obviously be quite a price hike for consumers. Do
30:05
Speaker 1: you think that's like fertile territory or do you think
30:07
Speaker 1: it's too confusing for people?
30:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think this is a really good question.
30:11
Speaker 2: I did a podcast that'll go up Thursday with Ezra
30:14
Speaker 2: Klein and Ezra went into a long, who's brilliant, obviously,
30:19
Speaker 2: went into a long disquisition about tariffs and the impact
30:23
Speaker 2: of tariffs and so on. you know, and what 10%
30:26
Speaker 2: tariffs on China would mean and on all products and this.
30:30
Speaker 2: And like, I don't think people understand tariffs and I'm
30:34
Speaker 2: not sure that, I'm always loathe to be involved in
30:37
Speaker 2: trying to educate the public in the last 90 days
30:40
Speaker 2: of a campaign about something. I think it's fair to
30:43
Speaker 2: say that when you add up all of Donald Trump's
30:46
Speaker 2: economic policies, it's gonna raise costs on people by X
30:51
Speaker 2: number of dollars. You don't have to get into the
30:54
Speaker 2: sort of mechanics of how that happens, but you should
30:57
Speaker 2: make that assertion because it's true. And, you know, look,
31:01
Speaker 2: he wants to take over the Fed and hold interest
31:03
Speaker 2: rates down artificially. That may sound positive to people, but
31:07
Speaker 2: the result of it is going to also be more inflationary.
31:11
Speaker 2: I mean, he has an economic program that would explode inflation.
31:16
Speaker 2: And I would assert that. I would not get into
31:20
Speaker 2: the ins and outs because it's easy for him to say, look,
31:23
Speaker 2: I know you want to give a pass to China.
31:25
Speaker 1: I don't. All right, Democratic National Convention is next week
31:41
Speaker 1: in your hometown of Chicago. Can't wait to be there.
31:43
Speaker 3: Can't wait, yeah.
31:44
Speaker 1: Full lineups have not been released, but it looks like
31:46
Speaker 1: we'll hear from Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton on Monday night,
31:49
Speaker 1: Barack Obama on Tuesday night, Bill Clinton and Tim Walz
31:52
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, and Kamala Harris, of course, on Thursday. We
31:56
Speaker 1: will be doing a reaction show every night. Pod Save
31:58
Speaker 1: America will be there. Axe, you've been involved in a
32:01
Speaker 1: lot of these. Big picture, what does the Harris campaign
32:04
Speaker 1: and Democrats more broadly need to accomplish here?
32:08
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I said this earlier, but look,
32:12
Speaker 2: if it were a Biden convention, this would be 80%
32:17
Speaker 2: just assault on Trump, carpet bombing on Trump, because the
32:23
Speaker 2: mission there would be to make Trump so unacceptable that
32:29
Speaker 2: whatever misgivings they had about Biden, that they would vote
32:32
Speaker 2: for Biden. And there would be some stuff about his
32:35
Speaker 2: accomplishments and so on. This is an entirely different task.
32:40
Speaker 2: The task here is to tell the Kamala Harris story
32:44
Speaker 2: in a way that builds on what she's been doing
32:47
Speaker 2: and makes people feel more comfortable and give them a
32:50
Speaker 2: deeper sense of what it is that she is fighting
32:53
Speaker 2: for and who she's fighting for. It's a much more,
32:59
Speaker 2: I think, a much more energizing kind of prospect for
33:04
Speaker 2: the folks who are planning the conventions. if you come
33:06
Speaker 2: out of the convention with a deeper, richer sense of
33:11
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris as someone who identifies with people, fights for people,
33:15
Speaker 2: and has an idea about the very tangible things that
33:20
Speaker 2: need to be addressed to improve people's lives or help
33:24
Speaker 2: people improve their own lives, I think that would be
33:26
Speaker 2: a big win. And I think, you know, it is very,
33:31
Speaker 2: it's much less complex than it would have been. Clearly,
33:35
Speaker 2: there's going to be contrast drawn with Trump and there
33:39
Speaker 2: should be. But I kind of think people have made
33:42
Speaker 2: a judgment about Donald Trump. I don't think you have
33:44
Speaker 2: to do that much work on Trump. Yeah.
33:49
Speaker 1: I feel like the only work you have to do
33:51
Speaker 1: on Trump is they've made up their minds on his character,
33:54
Speaker 1: who he is, what he's done in the past. I
33:57
Speaker 1: wonder about his second, his potential second term agenda and
34:01
Speaker 1: how much work you need to do, sort of just
34:03
Speaker 1: laying out the choice for people on, you know, if
34:06
Speaker 1: he gets another term, he'll do X, Y, and Z.
34:08
Speaker 1: But I go back and forth.
34:10
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that Bill Clinton is speaking Wednesday night
34:12
Speaker 2: because you remember the role he played at our convention
34:15
Speaker 2: in 2012, where he did a lot of that. I'm
34:18
Speaker 2: sure he'll do a lot of that again. And I
34:21
Speaker 2: think particularly on economics, the discussion we were just having,
34:26
Speaker 2: doing some good work on that. You know, yes, and
34:30
Speaker 2: on rights and abortion rights in particular and reproductive rights,
34:37
Speaker 2: there's work to be done there. You know, I'm not
34:41
Speaker 2: like a huge believer in just uttering the words Project
34:46
Speaker 2: 2025 again and again. I don't think the average person
34:48
Speaker 2: knows what it is. I don't think you should waste
34:50
Speaker 2: a whole lot. But I take some of the things
34:52
Speaker 2: from it. that are particularly egregious and extreme. And I
34:57
Speaker 2: would certainly raise their salience and create that contrast. But
35:03
Speaker 2: in the main, I think that this is Kamala Harris's
35:07
Speaker 2: great chance to introduce herself to the country. And when
35:12
Speaker 2: you're the sitting vice president, yes, you're a national figure,
35:15
Speaker 2: but you're really not known. And a great example is
35:20
Speaker 2: George H.W. Bush in 1988. was, you know, the cover
35:25
Speaker 2: of Newsweek at the beginning of the campaign was, is
35:28
Speaker 2: Bush a wimp? Because he was like the understudy to
35:32
Speaker 2: Ronald Reagan. And that convention really, really broadened people's sense
35:38
Speaker 2: of who George H.W. Bush was, the war hero, the
35:43
Speaker 2: guy who's really attached to, you know, his family and
35:46
Speaker 2: to American values. And it was a hugely important uh,
35:53
Speaker 2: event for him. So vice presidents are known, but they're
35:57
Speaker 2: not known. This is a chance for her to be
35:58
Speaker 2: better known.
36:00
Speaker 1: Let's talk about her speech specifically. You and I have
36:03
Speaker 1: worked on a lot of these convention speeches. Uh, I
36:06
Speaker 1: remember in 2008, there's just like a lot of business
36:10
Speaker 1: to get done in all of these speeches, right?
36:13
Speaker 2: Like I was a particularly hair raising.
36:15
Speaker 1: Uh, well, it's, They're State of the Union-esque in that
36:21
Speaker 1: you want to talk about yourself. You want to talk
36:23
Speaker 1: about your opponent. You want to lay out your agenda,
36:25
Speaker 1: but you don't want to lay out too much of
36:27
Speaker 1: the agenda. You want to talk a little bit about
36:28
Speaker 1: your opponent's agenda and what the choice is. You want
36:31
Speaker 1: to wrap it up in, unlike a State of the Union,
36:33
Speaker 1: you want to make it a little tighter and wrap
36:35
Speaker 1: it up in sort of inspirational rhetoric, uplifting its crowd.
36:38
Speaker 2: And you don't have to deal with a bunch of
36:39
Speaker 2: bureaucrats trying to get their pet project into the speech.
36:41
Speaker 1: Right, right. But I also remember, you know, that those
36:45
Speaker 1: first couple drafts of the 2008 speech were very long
36:50
Speaker 1: because there was so much business to get done. What
36:53
Speaker 1: would you focus on specifically if you were her?
36:57
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, again, I think more than even
37:01
Speaker 2: Obama needed to, because remember, he had a two-year campaign.
37:06
Speaker 2: She is literally one month into this race, or she'll
37:10
Speaker 2: be one month into this race. So she needs to
37:13
Speaker 2: tie her own story to the values that she's fighting for.
37:19
Speaker 2: I think that's one big thing. But I actually think
37:22
Speaker 2: that they're touching on some of this. She also needs
37:25
Speaker 2: to ask people, what kind of country do we want?
37:28
Speaker 2: You know, that's what elections are about. And what kind
37:31
Speaker 2: of country do we want? And contrast her vision with
37:36
Speaker 2: the vision of a Trump redo, a Trump 2.0, and
37:42
Speaker 2: really cast herself as a hopeful woman forward-looking alternative. And
37:47
Speaker 2: I think if she does those things, it'll be a
37:50
Speaker 2: successful speech. Yeah, you have to resist the temptation to
37:56
Speaker 2: make it a State of the Union speech. This should
37:59
Speaker 2: be as much poetry as prose. It has to have
38:02
Speaker 2: enough content to support the poetry and give people a
38:06
Speaker 2: sense of where you're going. But I think people want to...
38:09
Speaker 2: What we've seen in the last three weeks is People
38:12
Speaker 2: want to be inspired. They want to feel like there's
38:16
Speaker 2: a better day ahead that, you know, we're not, you know,
38:20
Speaker 2: this is now a battle between hope and cynicism. And
38:26
Speaker 2: she just needs to make a great case for hope here.
38:30
Speaker 2: And I think that she will. I think she will.
38:33
Speaker 1: I also think, you know, they are going to try
38:36
Speaker 1: to define her as other hope.
38:39
Speaker 3: Right?
38:39
Speaker 1: She's, whether it's radical, whether it's flip-flopper, she's, you know, it's,
38:44
Speaker 1: whether it's Trump talking about her, you know, biracial identity
38:47
Speaker 1: or it's more policy oriented, the message is the same,
38:51
Speaker 1: which is she's not like us. And I think she
38:54
Speaker 1: has an opportunity here to really sort of reclaim patriotism
38:59
Speaker 1: and talk about her love of country and how this
39:02
Speaker 1: country sort of made her story possible. And she wants
39:04
Speaker 1: to make that story possible for everyone.
39:06
Speaker 2: And she's doing that, by the way, on the road.
39:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:08
Speaker 2: She should be doing that. You know, she has a
39:11
Speaker 2: disadvantage because, and it's not that so much because her
39:15
Speaker 2: parents are, you know, Jamaican immigrant and Indian immigrant, so
39:21
Speaker 2: much as she is a cosmopolitan person. I mean, she's
39:25
Speaker 2: a coastal cosmopolitan person. You know, Biden had an advantage.
39:29
Speaker 2: Scranton was a huge advantage. And in his convention, that
39:34
Speaker 2: was the touchstone. That was the thing that certified him.
39:38
Speaker 2: And so she has to approach it a little differently.
39:43
Speaker 2: And I mean, part of the challenge of the Democratic
39:46
Speaker 2: Party is that it's become too much of a coastal
39:48
Speaker 2: cosmopolitan party So really reconnecting with or connecting with fundamental
39:56
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, the dignity of just hardworking folks
40:00
Speaker 2: across this country who care deeply about their family and
40:04
Speaker 2: their communities. And just, you know, they want their leaders
40:09
Speaker 2: to be on their side and to help them do
40:12
Speaker 2: the things that they want to do in their lives.
40:16
Speaker 2: And I think again, just looking at the speeches she's making,
40:20
Speaker 2: I think she's really touching on those themes and just
40:23
Speaker 2: expanding on those, I think will be really important. So
40:28
Speaker 2: you're right. If she, you want people to feel when
40:30
Speaker 2: she comes out of this, I get her and she
40:32
Speaker 2: gets me.
40:34
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, for sure. Finally, uh, for anyone who's, uh, listening,
40:38
Speaker 1: who's headed to Chicago and might have some free time, any,
40:41
Speaker 1: any recommendations on restaurants, uh, uh, uh, In addition to Manny's,
40:45
Speaker 1: of course.
40:46
Speaker 2: Well, you just took away my number one choice. I'm
40:50
Speaker 2: not going to, I'm going to duck the question as
40:53
Speaker 2: only a experienced political consultant can because I don't, I
40:58
Speaker 2: have some favorite restaurants, but I don't want to insult.
41:02
Speaker 2: This is a great restaurant town. I guess my bottom
41:06
Speaker 2: line is this is one of the great restaurant towns
41:08
Speaker 2: in the world.
41:09
Speaker 3: It really is.
41:10
Speaker 2: And you can't go wrong. And there'll be a million
41:13
Speaker 2: sort of guides to restaurants. But there's a lot of
41:16
Speaker 2: great ethnic, you know, there's still ethnic neighborhoods, ethnic foods.
41:20
Speaker 2: This is a really diverse city, you know. And if
41:23
Speaker 2: you get a chance to move around a little, I'd
41:25
Speaker 2: experiment with those. But if Haute Cuisine is your thing,
41:29
Speaker 2: there's plenty of it here. And I'm not going to
41:33
Speaker 2: bias you. You will find them. But I think you
41:36
Speaker 2: should send into Pod Save America your favorites when this
41:38
Speaker 2: is over. And there should be a Pod Save America
41:42
Speaker 2: guide to Chicago.
41:43
Speaker 1: You can't go wrong, and you also can't go light.
41:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
41:48
Speaker 1: You're not going to Chicago to sort of cut calories.
41:50
Speaker 2: Well, in fairness, they call it the Windy City. It's
41:54
Speaker 2: actually not about the wind, but it does get windy here.
41:56
Speaker 2: And so we like to bulk up here in case
41:58
Speaker 2: a big gust of wind comes along. You don't want
42:01
Speaker 2: to get blown away. So we eat well here, and
42:05
Speaker 2: you will eat well here when you come. I can't
42:07
Speaker 2: wait to see everybody. I love this town. And it's
42:10
Speaker 2: never more beautiful than in August. So, you know, visit
42:14
Speaker 2: the lakefront, you know, go, you know, walk through the
42:19
Speaker 2: parks on the lakefront, you know, just enjoy the city.
42:23
Speaker 2: And in no way to denigrate Milwaukee, which is, I think,
42:27
Speaker 2: in its own way, a really charming town. But Chicago
42:31
Speaker 2: is the best city there is, and I think you'll
42:33
Speaker 2: find it.
42:34
Speaker 1: Look, I'm excited to go check out some of our
42:36
Speaker 1: old haunts from when we lived there during the Obama campaign.
42:39
Speaker 1: And Chicago in the summer, I always say there's no
42:42
Speaker 1: better city.
42:43
Speaker 5: Yes, yes.
42:44
Speaker 1: Axe, thanks for doing this today. Thanks for being here. Oh, yes, man.
42:47
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure to chat with you.
42:49
Speaker 1: This is great. And Dan and I will be back
42:51
Speaker 1: with a new show on Friday morning. We will talk
42:53
Speaker 1: to you then. David Axelrod, thanks again.
42:56
Speaker 2: Good to be with you, brother.
42:59
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