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Best Tipping Detectives, Cardinals Acquire Nats Reliever · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with Kyle Gibson and Lance Lynn and gentlemen,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: we start, as we usually do, with some good old
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: fashioned begging. We're talking about getting new subscribers. So the
• 0:22
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• 0:24
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• 0:29
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• 0:33
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• 0:36
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• 0:39
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• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: The Cardins made a trade this week, not a glamorous one,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: but they did make a deal. They sent Andre Grenillo
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to the Nets for George Soriano. Sorriana, a righty reliever,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: bounce around the waiver wire a little bit with four
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: different teams since November one hundred and eighteen big league
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: innings in his career ERA of eight last year, which
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: isn't great, and he has no options left. As for Grenello,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: we saw him a little bit last year, I think
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: fourteen games with the Cardinals, both guys relievers. Grenello actually
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: had pretty good numbers at at Triple A one point
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: twenty nine ERA fifty eight, K's forty two innings at
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: at Memphis. Kyleis start with you, So this one, I think,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: understanding that it's a rebuild and maybe you like a
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: guy you see something like in Sriano you can fix.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: But tell me your thoughts on this deal, because I
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: thought Grenello might be a guy that the Cardinals like
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: for the future.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of deals like this that
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: unless were in the inner workings and we can hear
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: exactly why they're doing it and what they like about. Uh,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: it's probably gonna be unfair speculation about both players, honestly.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: You know, I saw a Brendia when I was in
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Triple A with the Rays last summer.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: I saw him a couple of times, and he was
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: a tough a b for the Triple A guys from Tampa.
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: He he had nasty stuff, something to his delivery, hid
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: a little bit of what he was doing, and you know,
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: I thought he had really good stuff in that chance
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: to be pretty good. So obviously how I'm in the
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: front office thinks the same about Sorianto, and you know,
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: whatever it might be, they think that you know, a
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: little bit more experienced, who knows right all the speculation
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: might just be unfair.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: So you know, if we're gonna.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Trust him to make the moves for you know, with
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: Donovan and Aeronado and everybody else, then I say we
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: let this one play out and see what mister Toreana lasts.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So Lance, I think that's all given. But we're in
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: the business of speculating little in your career, and you've
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: been around baseball a long time, whether guys that you
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: know the coaching staff saw some in or you saw
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: some in where maybe the numbers had in no way
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: reflecting the ability to reflect what this kid was capable
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: of in your eyes, with a team's.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: Eyes, Yeah, I think it comes down to, uh, you know,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: the being put in the right circumstances. Maybe they see
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: a pitch ah, you know, bad usage number or something
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: like that that can boost him up and go from there. Yeah,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: you see, you see all kinds of different stuff. I
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: haven't like, dug down deep into his pitch arsenal and
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: maybe why he hasn't had success at the major league
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: level over the last couple of years. I mean, I
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: think they're both the same age. You know one of
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: them has multiple years of options left, so if you
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: look at it that way, it's kind of a scratch
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: your head move, especially where you're at you want to
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: have some roster flexibility. If Soriano comes in and has
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: a really bad camp and you know it, breaks camp
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: with the team and has a bad April, he's gone
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: and then you lose two years of controllable are or
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: pre ar years from you know, from when the Cardinals
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: gave up. So it's a if they hit on him,
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: it's a great move if he gets designated at any
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: point during this year, because you don't have a spot
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: on the roster, it's a bad moon. So that's kind
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: of where they're at. So hopefully they see something and
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: there's something that the big league staff can say, Hey,
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: this guy can be a reliable reliever. If we eliminate
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: this bitch, use this pitch more and getting maybe this pitch,
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: you'll also getting more on less strikes up kle Have.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: You seen a guy in your career where like you
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: saw something that maybe the numbers didn't bear out. I'm
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: sure you have where you're like, it's a small fix
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: for this guy and then he'll be really good because
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a lot of guys with little, little
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: defects in their mechanics that can be fixed pretty quickly.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, honestly, that's that's really most guys, Jim, you know,
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: most guys that have had big league time and have
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: struggled a little bit or a lot even Uh, they're
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: just not normally massive overhauls away from being average above average.
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: You know, that's really what separates, uh, they're good from
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: the great, you know, the blow average to the average.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean I think I definitely think that
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: there's gonna be something that you know, Dusty and and
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: him and those fans see with him, you know, after
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: having facing him possibly at multiple levels where multiple teams
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: and and what they like. You know, we're looking at
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: the pitch profile here. You obviously he's got a you know,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: a couple of pitches that move to the right, couple
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: of pitches and move one he pitched and moves.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: To the left. You know, it's it's hard to look
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: at that and say, here's what you got.
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: But you know, maybe there's something we're I don't think
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: we can underestimate what the Cardinals R and D and.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Pitching people can do.
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: With when they see a delivery and they see how
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: so you know, clearly there's something that they like to
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: to give up Vervilla who had had good stuff.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: So one of the things about Soriano is that he
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: gives up some home runs, which every pitcher gives up
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: home runs. But he gave up one point seventy five
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: homers per nine innings in his in his major league career,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: which isn't you know, a huge sample size, but over
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: one hundred innings and lance every pitcher has dealt with
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: gopher balls.
• 6:30
  Speaker 5: What's the key to not giving up home runs?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously don't put fat pitches over the middle
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: of the plate, but what's the what's the key?
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: I feel like this was like a pointed question because
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: I led the league of home runs given year. So
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: I gave up forty four home runs one year, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: you lead the league. I see how it is. But
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: you know also to like one hundred ninety seven or
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: one hundred ninety three innings that year and almost punched
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: that two hundred, so you know there's there's.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Good in the bad.
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: I think the number one thing that I got from
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: my year of leading the league at home runs, so
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: I know by experience, by giving up two home runs
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: too many home runs you know throughout a year is uh,
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: you get yourself in bad counts. You get yourself in
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: bad counts, and then you got to you gotta do
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: things that you don't want to do and come into
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: places you don't want to come into because you get predictable.
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: You try things that maybe not might not work, and
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: then you get yourself in a hitter's count and you
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: make a mistakes and then once you start feeling like
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: you have to be perfect every time, then more mistakes happen.
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: So maybe it's eliminated a pitch for him. Maybe there's
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: one pitch that just seems to get him in trouble.
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's a count, maybe it's a you know, a
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: tip or something like that. So there's a lot of
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: different things that can change. Number one thing you look
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: at is there is there a pitch that gives up
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: the most home runs? Okay, where's it give it up?
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: Or where you know, we're in the quadrants of the
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: strike zone a m I getting beaten? Why and try
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: to stay out of there? And then next thing you know, okay,
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: maybe this pitch usage after this pitch the tunnel a
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: little bit better and stuff like that that could really
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: ease some of the things, and then gives you confidence
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: because you see pictures get away with Pauls right down
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: the middle, and you see pictures give up home runs
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: on quality pitches. You' just got to be able to
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: make sure you put them in the right spots, the
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: right hitters and not you know, coming to the zones
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: that you don't want to be in, especially if you're
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: behind account. So get ahead, use your best pitches. Maybe
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: they see a sample of where they can eliminate a
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: pitch where it gets me back in the count more
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: of a picture friendly count, and then it can you know,
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: kind of expand from there and do some things from there.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Last brought up tipping pitches, which I think is a
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: fascinating thing because it's not just young pictures. Every picture
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: evolves over his career, and you see sometimes veterans end
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: up with some of they're trying tipping pitches right and
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: they know better, but they just didn't notice it about
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: what they had started to do maybe recently. So, Kyle,
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: have you ever dealt with that where like I'm not
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: talking about as a youngster where you needed help to
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: evolve to get to the bigs. But as a veteran pitcher,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: you're like, wait a minute, I'm doing this now, and
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: this might be a giveaway, Jim.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I would love to believe that every time I had
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: a bad dame, I was tipping pitches. You know, That's
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: just something that I really like to think in the
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: back of my head. Then maybe those guys knew what
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: was coming. You know, Cleveland Indians from twenty thirteen to
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: twenty nineteen, there's no doubt they knew what was coming.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: You know, everybody hit three fifty to four hundred off
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: of me. So it wasn't the fact they were big leaguers,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: is the fact that I was definitely telling them what's coming.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: I hope no, I mean I think there is.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: You know you can't it's something simple here, so I'll like,
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: I'll kind of I might lose the top of my
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: happier boy.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: You know, it's nothing simple as when you throw your curveball.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: You know, maybe you go from here and your glove
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: to here, and then you can take your glove hand
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: and your hands won't work together right, so you can
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: easily be upright then on.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Your curve boil.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: You just let your glove down because you're throwing a
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: hand lads your glove down, you know, and then as
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: you come up, instead of raising your fingers up with
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: your knee lift, you're raising your thumb up with your
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: knee lift.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: There's so many things that that.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Can be done to give away one pitch or whatever
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: it might be, and it just doesn't have to be
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: your most used pitch, that's the thing.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: It can be the pitch that you throw ten to
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: twelve times a game, and if that's the wrong time
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: you throw it, the hitters can capitalize on it.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: A big one that I think I had to deal
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: with was how wide I flatter my glove when like
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: change up, you know, having bigger hands and throwing a
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: circle change up with the.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: Ball stating here, you know, it's a little bit easier.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: It can steal a fastball a little bit harder once
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: your hand opens up for a change up, you know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: and it flares that glove a little bit, so you know,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: and then this guy's got on second base, and I
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: started thinking about that more.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: I really had to can steal the opening up the
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: glove to.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Second base, and you know, worrying about that, So yeah,
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: I mean, if you're not thinking about that in weird games,
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: you know, where you give up ten twelve hens three
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: four innutes, then I think you're probably messing up, because
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: you know, little things that can give the hitter.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: A little bit of advantage, could to be a pick thing. Lance.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Of all the guys he played with, give me some
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: names the guys that had the best eye for spotting tipping.
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: Kyle was one of the good ones. It was on
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: it every day when I first came up, your Chris Carpenter's,
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: your loss, your Wainwright's we're big and too honing in
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: on it and stuff like that. And then as a
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: as a teammate of Carlos, Botron had the ability to
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: literally see things that nobody else could, and he could
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: slow it down as since where he could actually use
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: it in a box that I've never seen anyone else accomplish.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: I've seen hitters that don't want anything because it gets
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: them in between. Where where Carlos could would literally see
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: a guy's when he hands broke, he could see it
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: one of the pitches on its way. He could be
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: like what I saw him and his curveball around his back,
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: or he came straight back on his heater, so he
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: can literally look at a guy's hip to see where
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: his hand placement comes up, and then he would sit
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: on a pitch from there, and a lot of guys
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: that's impossible to do because the game's too quick. The
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: pitches are going everywhere. So he was one of the
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: best I've ever seen at in the box being able
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: to get something that late and actually use it. So
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: that was kind of wild to me as a young age.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: And you look at it, it's like he could see
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Wainwright's curveball on his break of his hand with his
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: front glove being open or closed, and it was it
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: was literally that and that it was like you'd squeeze
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: on his heater and do this and he's like, hey,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: you pop your glove on your on your breaking ball.
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: Most guys can't sit on that pitch, but if you
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: see the pop of the glove, it's like, okay, sit
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: on breaking ball or just don't swing. Guys that are
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: really good at it, it's like, hey, when I see this,
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to swing until I have to too.
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: Strike count.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: Some guys see it and they fit and they get
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: into auto swing too, so it gets them in Trouble,
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: where Carlos was like, Okay, I know you throw this
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: pitch and this pitch off off of tight glove. I'm
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: looking for those two until I have to cover. You know,
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: one of the best hitting coaches I've ever heard said, hey,
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: you can't hit slider, well, just stop swinging at it
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: until you have to, and then just fail it off.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: So when you can, you know you can't hit a pitch,
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: and you try to hit it, it's just gonna make
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: you miss other things. So Colors would eliminate one pitch
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: and not mess with it until you had to.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Boy, it's got to be vigilant. We're gonna take a
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: quick break here. You're watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul
• 13:23
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  Speaker 1: Looks very healthy. Hey, I want to circle back before
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: we talk about an old friend of ours to Kyle
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: cal do you have any stories of tipping pitches that
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: might be interesting, maybe someone that helped you or someone
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: that you believe have the best eyes to find that
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that you had ever seen.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: Brian Doser was really really good in Minnesota, and he's
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: similar to last saying about carlos Man. He could take
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it to the box and he just said that when
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: he got in the box, the little things that he
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: saw just out at him, and he was so laser
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: focused that he was able to take just the smallest things.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: And there was a prominent lefty in the American League
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: Central one year that Tory Hunter and Brian Newsier ended
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: up with a tip on and the Minnesota Twins. This
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: we had the tip on on a couple of his pitches,
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: and he struggled against the Twins and we lost nearly
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: one hundred games and twenty sixteen and every other team
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: he dominated, And yeah, I don't I think he might
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: have finished like sect or third in the side, you know,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: in that year, possibly without the Twins. I don't know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: but it was just it was one of those things
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: where dooser saw it and then he started talking about it.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: Everybody like, oh wow, there it was. And I don't know.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: We faced him four or five times and.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the best guy that I ever saw at that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: good do you have your hands raised?
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: Go ahead, lance Lynn, I'm guessing the player Chris sale.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Christa was him. I don't know why I can seal
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: the name right, like I mean, I felt like I
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: was being a secret. I think he's probably fixed. Yeah,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: he fixed it since then. But I'm telling you what.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: You go back and look at twenty sixteen.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I think it was twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen when our
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: guys fought Oh.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: My gosh, it was like, I don't know. It wasn't
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: like he never got through five innings.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: He would always get through five innings, but it'd be,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: you know, the only games of the month that he'd
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: give up four or five roads. And without the Minnesota Twins,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: I think he had like a low two.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: And I think maybe he had like a seven or
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: a seven and a half against the Twins that year.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: And if he starts, you're a good guy.
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: You don't want to give it up. But years have
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: gone by. All is good? Now, all right, Well, I
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: don't just want to say.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, Like if it was Lance,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: I'd put it all out there and then i'd get
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: a text from Lance.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I'd better what you do about it. I don't know
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: Chris so like, I don't know if he really likes
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: that to be brought up. You know, I don't want to.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I'm sure somebody could bring up a nice oh hey,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: do you remember the time you give a four string
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: homers to the Cardinals? He somebody could do that to me,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: And yeah, that's the way fun.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: But your tipping, though, I could have been tipping like
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Jim Edmonds was great. Jim Edmonds had eyes. He could
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: be up in the booth and see the spin on
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: the ball, like he must have the greatest eyes in
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the history of baseball. But that guy could pick up anything. Lance,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: did you ever see any of that?
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: I mean we played with I mean, if you play
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: with Albert, Carlos and YACHTI they were like that. Just
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: every hitter was different at being able to put a
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: quality swing on it and getting the you know, the
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: results they want. So those guys were able to do that.
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: Yatta's ability when he first came up was not the
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: best offensive guy, but then Albert taught him how to,
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: I guess, set on pitches, read, read, you know, tips
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: and do all that and that's when you know Yatti,
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: you know, really did what he did. But Albert was
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: great at it too, where it was like, hey, I
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: see this, this and this. Albert and Yatti could do
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: that on a guy on the mound where he's like, hey,
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: it been when he starts his delivery and they had
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: the invisible cloak where they get still second base and
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: you're like, how you know how two guys that are
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: not the fastest still bags, but they knew exactly that
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: they're not paying attention. I would not paying attention when
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: they start their wind up or they're from their stretch
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: when they start to go, and they and then they
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: timed it perfectly every time. So there's a few players
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: like that on every team that can do it. And
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: then there's guys that just hey, I got a seatball,
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: hit ball, and then I'm looking for this spot this zone.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: So as a pitcher, you got to know who's you know,
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: capable of doing those things too, and pay attention as
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: the game goes on.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Speaking a little bit is staragant. You're gonna have to
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: war for a second. You know what's.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Interesting is players last year, how few number of the
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: young guys are actually looking for that. And I just
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: don't think it's something that's taught anymore. It's something that's put,
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: you know, as a premium. Whereas before iPads, before all
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: this stuff, where you could go back and watch every
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: one of your spleens super school to make sure your
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: hands weren't doing this, you know, they were going here.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: They just watched the picture and I felt like you
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: always tried to get something off the picture and sent
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: it off yourself all the time. I mean, there was
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: a couple of times this past year where you know,
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: one of the mode of the guys is out there
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: doing something I mentioned one of the young years. I'm like, hey,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: watch when he does this, tell me if you see it.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: And I'm talking something as simple as when he raises
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: his glove, he gets below his team logo on a heater,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: and when he raises his glove and he's wind up
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: above his team logo, it's up off speat, like something
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: as simple as that, And like, oh, you know, I
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: really don't steel.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, all right, well I guess you're just
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: not gonna stee it too.
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: That's my.
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: That's fascinating stuff. That is fascinating.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to ask you about our old friend.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Miles michaelis thirty seven years old, gets a one year
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: deal with the Nats. They're looking for a veteran guy.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: And look, last season was a little runp for Miles,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: but there were also good stretches. I'm gonna ask you first, Kyle.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: One of the nuts getting at of Miles Michael is.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: They're getting a veteran guy who's you know, which I
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: believe is becoming more and more appreciated, is the ability
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: to post every five.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Days, every six days, whatever it is, and.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: You know that if he has a rough first or
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: second inning, he's gonna be there in the fifth.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: He's gonna possibly get into the sticks and he's not
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: gonna he's not gonna crush the hope.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: But on the bad days, you know, and then he's
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: gonna have good days where he's really located and he's
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: able to pitch.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: We know that. You know, he's got feel first pitches.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: And I think he's gonna be a good mentor for
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: the young guys that they have over there. You know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: he's he's got a different old school approach a little bit,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: you know, And and I think that can be a
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: real benefit to young guys who spend a lot of
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: time once again, like I just mentioned, watching the iPads,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: seeing if there's spin rates this, seeing if they're spin
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: accesses this, and it's like, listen, man, you can look
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: at that in a bullpen all you one, but on
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: game day you don't need to be looking at that.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: You're not gonna be able to go out on the
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: mound and think about how you're gonna take your sleeper
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: from negative eight to negative fifteen in the middle of
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: an inny like you got what you got today? How
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: are you gonna go get out? And I think that's
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: a real strike of Miles. And you know, I think
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: he's gonna be able to have some good conversations with
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: those guys about that. And like I said, he's a
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: guy that posts and he goes out there and is
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: a professional on what he does. You're not gonna find
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: a guy that works harder on to keep himself healthy.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: So I think that'll be a good example for the
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: young guys. And he's a fun guy to talk to
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: me who likes to play golf as well. He's I
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: think it'll be great for those young guys and and
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: you know, bring us out of that cultural low.
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: He likes to fetch too.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Lenz, tell me tell me a Miles Michael List story
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: if you have one.
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: The best, I mean, the best thing that we had
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: going on is we had Miles and Sunny together. When
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: you want to say, they're kind of the polar opposites
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: the way that they think, but they're also very similar
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: in a lot of ways that they went about things,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: they had their way of doing it. They were very,
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: you know, routine oriented. They were there for anybody in
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: any situation. But they had their beliefs and they stuck
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: to them. At the same time, some of their beliefs
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: are a little different, and it was funny to see
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: how that played out as teammates. But you know, Miles
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: is is just a beautiful creature. There's really no other
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: way to say it. He brings all the nuances to
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: a teammate that you need, especially when they have a
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: young team. He's got a guy that you know that
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: you can pencil in for, you know, thirty starts in
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty innings and and he's going to
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: tell you if he doesn't do that, then he had
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: a terrible year. And that's kind of gone away a
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: little bit in this game.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: So you need that.
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: You need a guy that can make innings, make starts,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: especially on a team where you don't really know how
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: your your rest, your rotations get to go down, and
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: stuff like that, and a very young team. So he
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: can be very beneficial all the way around for a
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: group like that.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: And one thing about Miles is over his career, he's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: adapted right, always gave the innings and everything. But he
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: changes a pitcher college and that's something you had to
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: be around baseball as long as he has. Unless you're
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: still throwing ninety nine miles an hour, don't you have
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: to change and sort of reinvent yourself every season or two.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Lance alluded to it a little bit ago about
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe what the Cardinals stall and story one
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: and what we traded for him. You know, one thing
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: that the Cardinals talked to me a little bit about
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four was, you know, protecting my thinker
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: a little bit. And you know that might be kind
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: of a nuanced statement to say, but you know it's
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: the best fastball I threw. You know, got the most
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: round balls, you know, randing on the rioties. You know,
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: good ground ball pitched down the way to the Rioties,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: good front him to lefties. But the more you throw
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: some pitch pitch, sometimes you can expose it in the
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: wrong situations. That could be part of Miles's issue at
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: times is you know, he exposes the wrong pitch at
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: the wrong time in a vacuum.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: That pitch is really really good, and he could use
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: it in certain places in the zone like that, that's
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: a safe.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: And then as a pitcher, sometimes it's really easy on
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: a good day to fall in love with a pitch
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: in a location and then before you know it, you
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: kind of stick with it. You've given up a couple
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: of runs in an inning because maybe you're a little
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: bit stubborn and didn't go away from it.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: So there could based on pitches to stuff and some.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Locations, stuff that Miles can adapt to and to really
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: protect certain pitches and keep it from being overexposed. But
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: Miles is a guy that looks at a lot. You know,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: he knows the strengths really well and he pitches to
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: him over and over again. And like I said, I
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: think that's something that young guys can can learn from.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And you know who you are on the mind, and
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: how can you take what you have that day and
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: go get as many outs as possible.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: I think the next thing's going on with you You
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: should figure out if Castellanus was a fit for the Cardinals?
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Was the next on the agenda?
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: If I'm not mistaken, tell me how you would think
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: you would fit to the Cardinals, And do you think
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: that's even a possibility with their with their being shedding
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: of the payroll that they've done so far. It was offseason, man, Lance.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: I said early on when we were doing serving it up.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I believe.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: That I thought Castellanos was a good fit for the Cardinals,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: And I think I caught some heat on social media
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: from fans say like, we don't need to bring it
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: in an older outfield or YadA.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: YadA, YadA.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Be like Man, I mean, if if he gets to
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: release or d fade like it's looking like it is,
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: I think it's a good fit.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Now, Cassidy's probably.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Gonna want to go to a team that is, you know,
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: looking to win instead of you know, looking to the future,
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: So maybe this wouldn't be a spot that he'd pick.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: But you know, you have talked a lot about a
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: right handed bat. I think Casti still has a lot
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: in his bat. He can he can go and play
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: the outfield and d h and and be that betterroom
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: presence offensively, And like Miles.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: He's a different thinker.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: He would be really to not come back, but really
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: good to bounce ideas off of for young guys because
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: he's been through a lot. Man One situation that stuck
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: out to me in twenty twenty two was when Alec
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Bohme he had a tough game at home in Citizens
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Bank and he got Colorado camera staying I hate this plays.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: Casi was one of the guys after the game going
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: up to him talking to the media and saying, hey,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I've struggled defensively. I've been the guy that has gotten
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: you know, taken out defensively and moved positions like listen,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: this game's hard. And he went to bat for bone
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: a lot in that situation. So I think as a veteran,
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: I think he's a guy that would fit well. And
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: if he plays well, you know, you have a situation
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: where if you're winning, then he's probably a reason why.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: And if you're losing, then you can trade him at
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: the deadline and get something for it.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: So Casianos, who's it's thirty three, obviously good baseball, but
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: he got sideways with his manager, like unrepairably. Have you
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: ever seen that with players and managers getting sideways. I have,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: but they usually patch it up.
• 27:06
  Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean, that's that's tough too, I have stated,
• 27:11
  Speaker 9: But yeah, I don't know that I've stayed to this
• 27:15
  Speaker 9: beause kid, Honestly, I don't know what all happened. But
• 27:21
  Speaker 9: I mean, both of those guys are able to get along.
• 27:24
  Speaker 9: That's the crazy thing.
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Rob Thompson is, you know, a really great guy, and
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: I never had an issue with Nick at all, but
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: every now and then.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: You know, it happens. So yeah, it's definitely not the
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: first time that's happened, that's for sure.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: But I kind of liken this a little bit to
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: the Aeronauto situation, where they were very upfront that they're
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: going to get rid of him, And now I think
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: MLB teams are going to make them get rid of
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: him before trading for him, and I think it might
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: have it might have helped to be able to keep
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: this a little bit more hushed USh.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: On their end.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I agree. I think that that ship
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: has already sailed, he's out of there.
• 28:03
  Speaker 5: That's gonna do it. For this edition of Cardinal Territory.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: We made it to the end.
• 28:07
  Speaker 5: We will see on the next episode, and hopefully that
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: one won't suck.