Latest / The Dr. Randi Show / The Skincare Line Backed by Jay-Z — Sophie Bai

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The Skincare Line Backed by Jay-Z — Sophie Bai · The Dr. Randi Show

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The views expressed in this podcast are for informational
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purposes only and do not constitute medical advice.
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This episode of The Doctor Randy Show is proudly sponsored by New
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Now let's get into the episode. Hello everyone, and welcome to
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the Doctor Randy show where science, strategy and skin
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collide. Today's guest, she's rewriting
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the rules of sunscreen, patented a new UV filter, she's backed by
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Jay ZS venture firm, and she's making biotech feel like beauty.
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Please welcome Sophie Bai. Welcome Sophie to the show.
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How are you today? I'm.
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Good. How are you?
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Thank you so much for having me, Doctor Randy.
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I'm so excited to be here. Well, we're thrilled to have you
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on the show. And just to dive right in,
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there's been so much about you in the media and all over social
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media as well about your new brand, Pavis.
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So I'd love to just ask you straight up front, what is Pavis
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in your own words and why is it making so much noise in the skin
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Care World? Yeah, so Pavis is a brand all
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about using cutting edge scientific solutions to treat
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the root cause of skin aging. So we're a comprehensive aging
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skin care brand using the most advanced biotechnologies
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available today. Well, Congrats and excited to
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hear more about it. And as I understand, your SPF is
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really what's shaking up the industry.
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Would you mind sharing a little bit about your SPF and what you
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have done in that space? Yeah, definitely.
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So as a chemical engineer, how we look at problems is we use
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first principle to look at what's actually causing skin
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aging and inevitably UV is responsible to up to 80 or
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almost 90% of skin aging. So that is a non negotiable when
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you think about how to really treat skin aging concerns people
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have. And then on top of that, Ros
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reactive oxygen species is so abundant in our environment
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that's created by UV and also created by UV filters, AKA other
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sunscreens. So, you know, that's how we're
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thinking, can we actually solve both the UV problem and also the
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Ros problem? That's how we invented a diamond
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core at MIT to be able to solve both issues.
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And that can make up to 90 plus percent of skin aging that we
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have concerns about. So that's how we launched Pervis
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just a year and a half ago to basically having this very
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unique technology that people can truly see visible results in
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just four weeks. Wow.
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And so when you're talking about results, tell me what that means
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to you and to the people using the product.
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Yeah. So when we are talking about
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results, right, So there's one thing a lot of people don't
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understand the skin aging, right.
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A lot of people talking about skin regeneration, talking about
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different treatment. But the moment you walk out of
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the door, out of the office, right after lasers or even more
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aggressive procedures, we don't have proper photo protection,
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it's not going to be effective. So that's why we need to have a
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build in really, really high UVA UVB protection in the product to
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be able to show the results. So when I'm talking about
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results, I'm talking about melasma, rosacea, finance and
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wrinkles, PIH, all of those common skin concerns people
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have. We published a lot of the papers
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about rosacea, about melasma, and different journals at a
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pretty large size. Clinical studies to truly
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showcase this product, topical product alone can do wonders for
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those patients. You know, that's interesting
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that you're saying this because I have so many friends that have
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gone and had these very aggressive treatments on their
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skin and they're thrilled with the results.
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And then they're like, well, I blew it because I went back out
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in the sun and now my skin went right back to where I was
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before. So I think so many people
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underestimate the effects of the sun and what happens to our
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skin. In fact, sometimes when we're
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working from the house a lot, sometimes we don't put on
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sunscreen because, you know, we're not leaving the house
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until we know we're not leaving the house until seven, 8:00 at
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night. Well, you know, I know myself
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when I suddenly have to run out to do something, right?
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I get in a panic because I'm like, Oh my goodness, I don't
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have my sunscreen on and I'll ask my husband to like pull up
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right to the front of the store so I don't have to get any sun
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exposure, right? It makes such a difference that
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even that small exposure can make that brown spot come back
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again that you worked so hard to get rid of or whatnot.
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There was a white space in our industry that needed this
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filled. So I think that that's amazing.
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So the behind it, could you explain for the listeners and
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the viewers how this is different from the sunscreens
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that we've all been using? Yeah.
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So we created some molecule that is nano diamond augmented zinc
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oxide. So we synthesize this unique
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composite in our lab at MIT. What this does is that not only
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provides a highest UV protection, but also it gets rid
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of all of the reactive oxygen species that are generated by
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UV, by environmental stressors, right?
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So traditional UV filters, they generate ROSROS, ages us.
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Ros is the central piece of all hallmark of aging.
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That's why people are like, oh, I wear sunscreen and you're
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still getting aged by the Ros generated by your sunscreen.
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So that's why we wanted to solve this problem.
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We want to be able to, you know, for people to have it all that
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you should not compromise in terms of when you're choosing
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what's best for your skin health.
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That's this technology has come about.
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It is actually this is the only thing on the market that not
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only is AUV filter the highest UV protection, especially in the
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UVA range, which are the rates that age us the most, which has
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nothing to do with PFS, but also the truly unique part is this
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able to scavenge reactive auction species that to stop
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aging at its root. And that's when people are
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seeing reversal of the appearances of skin aging.
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People don't like, and I'm talking about the rest, the
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Browns, the fine lines and wrinkles, skin elasticity and
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all of the things that are associated with skin aging.
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Well, I think you've got the attention of the industry.
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You've got the attention of a lot of people.
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On that note, I read that you have two very different
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investors in your company. So you have Jay-Z Venture Group
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and then also former CEO of Allergan.
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That's very interesting. So what do you think each of
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them saw in Pavis and what the future looks like?
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Yeah. So when they invested, well, I
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have to say I'm very lucky and grateful to have amazing
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investors around the table for the company.
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When they invested, it was pre Pavis.
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We haven't launched anything at that point, right.
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So it was just me and my lab that was it.
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And I think they saw different things that attracted them for
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different reasons for Marcy venture to them.
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What's unique about me was I carry this true understanding of
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consumer needs as a scientist, which is often not the case,
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right? I myself is a heavy consumer of
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this industry and I happen to be the cancer drug researcher to
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understand chemical biological processes and create molecules
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that created drugs before and to them.
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And that's a unique quality to stand out in a very crowded
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market. And for former Chairman CEO
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Brett Saunders, he saw me as somebody who is very good at
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execution and understanding both the science and business side of
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things. So I would say my different past
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experiences has led me to what I do today.
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And that really helped me to have a very different view
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compared to if I were just a scientist before or if I were
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just a business person before or if I were just the marketers.
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Yeah. So they definitely saw something
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different in you, it sounds like.
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So in this industry, it seems that everyone throws around the
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phrase clinically proven, right. So what is your standard for
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that term? That's such a great question,
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Randy, because for me, my background was cancer drug
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researcher and for us safety and clinical data, we're such high
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stake, right, that could make or break a company.
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And certainly the drug I worked on in the past were extremely
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high stake, hundreds of $1,000,000 invested just for the
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clinical data or trying to get a clinical proven point which can
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be very relaxed in the customer world.
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And you know, I think for us we uphold a very, very high
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standard. Our team are composed of all
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Harbor MIT researchers who were drug developers before and to us
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safety clinical testing what the data says, right, we don't care
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take data, we don't just say so one out of 100 person somehow
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that person worked. We don't show the factors that
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just because different lighting, right.
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So we want to be scientifically honest and we want to show
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people that what scientific credibility mean to us and how
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much we care about the real results.
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And what we put into is almost like we're creating a drug in
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the mission of saving people's lives.
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Because to us, our mission is skin care, is healthcare.
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I certainly have experienced a lot of mental distress because
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of my acne and eczema, and that is something that has bothered
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me for decades and still bother me today.
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And I just wanted to give the proper care and tension it
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deserves, even though dermatology had been kind of
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overlooked therapeutic area compared to other therapeutic
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areas that I worked for before. Sure.
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And it sounds like the term the dermatologists in this country
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are catching on and from what I have read they are very
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supportive of this being post procedure whether it's post
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laser micro needling. So right now you are selling
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direct to consumer, Are you selling this into clinics as
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well? Do you think that the terms will
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be catching on to selling this for post procedure?
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Yeah. So we're so grateful for our
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derm partners. We are on track to be in 1000
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more than 1000 offices this year.
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It's going to be fastest growing as such a young brand and a lot
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of our partners, you know, not only are the cosmetic
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dermatology focused derms, but also medical derms as well
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because we're able to show a lot of improvement with skin cancer
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patients as well, especially after surgery.
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So you know, we're working on a study on that.
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But you know, I think what really resonated with the derms
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because for us, we don't have the influencer, the celebrity,
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the social media, viral, trendy things.
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But what we do is we give you very raw scientific data, very
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large amount of data. And that's what derms care the
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most about. That's what our partners care
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the most about. They care about one thing.
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It's out of all the products out there, what gives my patient the
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best care and we are able to prove that we can not only
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scientifically proven in the lab, but also in a large set of
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clinical studies to show the real improvement of people's
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skin, right? It's about aesthetics, but also
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it is truly about foundational health.
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You. Know one of the questions I was
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going to ask you is, do you feel that it's easier or harder to
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build trust when you're leading with science?
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It's such a great question. I think building this business
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has taught, has taught me a lot. You know, as a scientist, I've
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been doing science for over 2 decades and I was raised to
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believe scientific truth is the most important thing and people
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should agree on that. And that's not necessarily true,
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especially I think there's a variety of opinions, a variety
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of different educational background.
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And when everybody in the world says they have science, how do
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you differentiate that you have science, right?
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So I do think there are sometimes science can be viewed
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as a marketing term rather than science.
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And I do think that over the time I learn how to better
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communicate about the science to the audience.
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So I think to answer your question simply, is it easier or
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harder to lead with science? I would say if you want short
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term immediate revenue, it is harder to lead with science,
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right? You should go with Sydney
14:05
Switney. But if you believe long term,
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when people still see results, what's driving them to come back
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to you, what's driving them to become advocate for you is your
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products genuinely changed their skin for the better.
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And that's what I believe. Science is the way to lead.
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And do you think that it is a little bit of a balancing act
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for with innovation and consumer demand or you know what
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consumers are ready to hear or believe, right?
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Because you're coming up with the science, you actually have
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the innovation. But is the market ready to hear
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that their sunscreen that they've been using for 10 years
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may not be the greatest thing, right?
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Or may not be the answer. So is that a little bit of a
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balancing act for you? Yeah, I would say people who are
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currently using our products or their our dorm partners
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understand this is not just a sunscreen, right.
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Dorms understand sunscreen is non negotiable and we want to
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build 1 product that is all you need to correct your skin
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concerns to reverse occurrences of aging and to delay skin aging
15:24
and also prevent skin cancer. So we want to be able to create
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this one product rather than creating 10 products out there,
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right. And if if you think about iPhone
15:34
right before Apple, you will have to need Agps, you need the
15:38
camera, you need a phone, you need all of those things.
15:42
But when iPhone comes out, everything is in the phone,
15:45
right? So we are similar in that regard
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as if we can solve the problems you're experiencing with one
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product or not trying to create a product for it.
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And in terms of consumer understanding.
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So if you only understand this is a sun strain, you should not
16:02
buy our product because it's a quite expensive sun strain.
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But if you understand the core of what we do right and that is
16:14
a very affordable product and that is also the best product
16:19
out there for you to see results and for you to continue to
16:24
improve your skin health with all of the scientific, clinical
16:28
published data that we spend millions of dollars.
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Sure. I was going to ask you about the
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$148 price point and that definitely got attention, right.
16:42
And how did that, how did consumers respond to that?
16:47
What was the overall response when people saw that?
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If you think that's a sensory and I will tell you not to buy
16:54
it because it's too expensive. So I myself will tell you that,
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but if you understand how this product works, right, Diamond
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Core SUV Filter Scavenge R Us, which is the core part of agent
17:06
right now, you're spending $180 on the vitamin C, right?
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And then you're spending X dollars on isosomes and other
17:13
products. And this product with a diamond
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core, the delivery system can help the penetration of paired
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ingredients. That's what you can see the
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correction of inflammatory conditions like rosacea, like
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melasma when people see those results, those that price point
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is very low. So we have probably the highest
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reorder rate in the industry just because people do see
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result and they do get on a subscription and they continue
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to use it. So coming from the industry
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before, having seen different brands, their stats, people who
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understand us are loyal customers and just because in
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the other day if your product works, people come back is
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there's nothing more expensive than your own health.
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That's very true. So what metrics are you watching
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very closely right now? Is it conversion, is it repeat
18:09
purchase? Or is it something else?
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I want to say repeat purchase is the right way to care very much
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about, especially for business in this category.
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If you don't have repeat, you don't have a business.
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So that is probably one of the most important metric we're
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watching for and we are very happy with the performance of
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our products. And I think another one is
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definitely growth in terms of number of floors as well as the
18:38
consumer population. So we're also growing very fast
18:41
which has led to three sold out incident in the past 12 months,
18:46
which is could be a good thing to talk about maybe on social
18:51
and media. However, it is a pain to have
18:54
out of stock when you're running a business.
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That is something that we try very much as possible as we can
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to avoid in the future. And what is your strategy to
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standing out in a market where now pharma companies are even
19:13
entering the chat of skin care, right?
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So how are you differentiating yourselves it in the eyes of the
19:19
consumer? Consumers are looking for
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results, right? So how can we communicate our
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science in the way that they understand and how do we create
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the product that they love to use that they can have
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compliance? And I think those two things are
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both equally important, right? Having the an applications
19:40
unique molecule is one thing, but translating that into a
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product that people love to use is a completely different skill
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set. And also convincing people to
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spend the money is another skill set, right?
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So especially your skin care is very different than makeup.
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Makeup you put it on, you see it, but skin care for you to see
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result takes time, right? So I think there are a lot of
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different touch point that needs to be done right to create a
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successful business in this category.
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And you know, we have done. A lot of I would say Tron era
20:19
based on market feedback to get to where we are today.
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And I think given the growth trajectory, where are we have
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proven product market fit and people genuinely love the
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product without celebrity endorsement, without I would say
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20 very moments. You know, those customers have
20:40
been with us since the very beginning.
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So I think that is probably one of the biggest satisfactions we
20:46
can get as scientists because for us, you know, before when we
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work on cancer drugs, we can work so hard for 10 plus years
20:53
and nothing come to fruition. But you know, our team is very
20:56
proud and it's very excited and passionate that we actually are
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creating things from lab, transferring that into the
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product that people love to use. So that's, I think, one of the
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greatest sections any scientists can have.
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Sure. And are you planning to expand
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the product line? So this is growing very well,
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right? We you definitely will not see
21:16
us becoming 100 steel brand. Part of the reason people love
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us is because we're very straightforward.
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This is your problem scientifically, this is a
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consensus of what's causing this problem.
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OK, Then what are different compounds at what delivery
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method, at what dosage, at what combination and what other new
21:35
things are coming out can solve this problem?
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We create this one thing, you know for us, we definitely are
21:41
very cognizant about only creating product.
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We believe people want to use and want to use repetitively,
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right? Like you will never see us let's
21:52
say coming out of vitamin C product.
21:55
We just there's a lot of them out there and unless we can say
22:00
our future vitamin C are 10 times plus better than current
22:03
vitamin C, we're not going to launch a vitamin C product.
22:06
We're happily to recommend the vitamin C product if you do love
22:09
a vitamin C, right. So that's our philosophy.
22:12
I think that we do have exciting pipeline in terms of what we
22:16
want to create and a lot of those are from observations from
22:20
our existing customers and our existing their partners.
22:25
So, you know, I've noticed this trend of even just watching like
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you're saying that the skin fluencers, right?
22:32
It seems like the consumers are ready for skin care that behaves
22:38
like medicine almost, right? And I think that everybody likes
22:43
that because they like the idea of a next level treatment.
22:47
And just curious how you think that consumers are feeling about
22:52
that, about skin care really going to the next level?
22:56
I want to say skin care will be more and more medicalized.
22:59
The reason is because consumers are at a stage with abundance of
23:03
information and easily accessible information.
23:06
They are not easily fooled by marketing, and they're
23:11
definitely much more educated and more knowledgeable.
23:13
And once they try something that doesn't work, they move on to
23:16
the next. So they're always searching for
23:18
something that works and what works means very different for
23:21
different people. We do see the trend of younger
23:24
people getting aesthetic treatment and it's not a taboo
23:27
anymore. People are very open to talk
23:28
about it. And I think for the
23:31
discretionary spend on this category, a lot of the I would
23:36
say luxury spent are converting into in office treatment and you
23:42
have enough streaming adjacent which means that consumers want
23:46
results and they want to spend their money on results.
23:49
And you know what gets the results are very drug like
23:54
medicalized skin care with the robust data and on clinical
23:59
trials and clinical evidence. I completely agree.
24:03
I think that the audience is getting smarter and I think that
24:07
the consumer is really trying to find where they're going to get
24:11
that biggest bang for their buck and they're willing to pay more
24:14
for those that deliver the results.
24:17
And clearly you're seeing that. So on that note, where it is a
24:22
crowded space, right, Skin care spaces is quite crowded.
24:26
Is there something in skin care trends that you are watching
24:30
that you believe just a little bit scientist risky out there
24:33
that's happening right now? Scientifically risky.
24:37
Risky, like something that maybe we shouldn't be putting on our
24:40
skin and ingredients that you're seeing out in the market.
24:42
Like I saw a dermatologist the other day talking about how he
24:46
believes that hyaluronic acid is completely overrated and he
24:50
thinks that it thins the skin. It was an interesting twist on
24:54
things. So as a scientist, are you
24:56
seeing things that we are doing maybe as consumers that might
25:01
not be the right direction? Yeah, so I'm not on social media
25:07
a lot. So I'm sure there are a lot of
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crazy things that are out there that gets people's attention,
25:13
right? Because they're crazy in terms
25:16
of what people are doing. From what I've seen probably in
25:19
the past couple years, I don't know if they are so trendy or
25:21
not for people to say that beef tallow treats everything, right?
25:27
I think that's a stretch. Like beef towel, twister,
25:30
psoriasis, eczema, acne somehow works better than Botox.
25:35
I think I've seen some of those. I think for that to be a wonder
25:39
drug for skin, I think it's a stretch.
25:41
In terms of chalaronic acid, I would say it's too large of a
25:46
molecular way to get into your skin and also extremely
25:50
hydrophilic, which means it's water soluble.
25:53
So there's no evidence so far I have seen like my specialty is
25:58
drug delivery. I've worked on trust thermal
26:00
drug delivery, I've worked on different delivery technologies.
26:04
It is very, very difficult to topically get HA bypass or
26:09
Strama Corbin and what current HA product out there?
26:12
I would say when they work, they truly mean that it does retain
26:16
moisture, right? So does it change your thermos?
26:22
No, but does it give you the moisture that on the surface
26:27
that your skin need when you feel dry, some formulation
26:31
still? So I think that back to my
26:33
point, a product works means different things to different
26:36
people. And when you're dry, if product
26:38
gives you moisture, it works. You think that works, right?
26:41
You're willing to spend money on it?
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I want not to do. I would say sunscreen conspiracy
26:48
is something that I see a lot, right?
26:49
People think sunscreen cause cancer.
26:52
There's no clinical evidence of that.
26:55
I think people were referring to some of the controversies in the
26:59
past where benzene contamination, right, benzene
27:03
cause cancer, but you know, doesn't mean some screen cause
27:05
cancer or the FDA's rule on chemical UV filters not being
27:11
safe because of potential hormonal disruptions on their
27:15
own study. So I think because it's a such a
27:17
complex category when it comes to sun protection because it's a
27:21
drug in this country, unlike other skin care.
27:23
I just almost another drug, right?
27:25
All of the skin care out there is not a drug, but sunscreen as
27:28
a sunscreen faces the most scrutinized regulatory and
27:33
consumer perception when it comes to this category.
27:36
So I, I think it's a very complex category that
27:40
unfortunately when people see things, they tend to just omit a
27:45
lot of the concept and be like, OK, sunscreen constants, which
27:49
we haven't seen that evidence. So I think that's probably one
27:51
thing I see and I would like to debug.
27:54
Well, I've heard that too. I've seen a couple of
27:57
influencers get on and say I have cancer from my sunscreen.
28:02
And you're right, like I think it's just a lot of shock value,
28:05
people trying to get attention or something.
28:07
But yes, that is happening on social media.
28:10
So thank you so much for everything that you've taught us
28:13
today and brought us. So in my final question to you
28:18
is what does legacy look like for you?
28:21
What do you want this brand to stand for in the next five years
28:26
and you know have used to be known as fill in the blank
28:30
there. I think goes back to why I
28:32
started this. When I was a cancer drug
28:34
researcher, I almost created 2 cancer drugs, well still the
28:38
first 3 clinical trials. My personal view about this
28:42
world is I don't think anything as powerful as medicine.
28:46
I don't think anything as more powerful as can save somebody's
28:49
lives. So for me, I just want to do
28:54
something good in this field and to not waste all of the
29:00
privilege I have had by having the education at MIT and
29:03
Harvard. And instead, right, people tend
29:06
to think it's a pseudo sized category.
29:09
But if no people jump in who have the best scientific
29:15
background or who have the resources and money.
29:18
I mean, we have spent $10 million in R and DLO.
29:21
So, you know, for if nobody does that, yeah, it will remain quote
29:26
UN quote, pseudoscience for a lot of people.
29:28
So we want to change that and I have experienced the pain of
29:33
what skin has caused me, so I think that's why I want to do
29:36
this. I was in my legacy, my companies
29:38
legacy, like so far. It's definitely not my personal
29:41
credit to build where we are today.
29:43
We have such amazing team. We all want people to see what
29:50
good signs can do to improve your lives.
29:53
And this is our just a start by Biosciences at the parent
29:56
company or working on atopic dermatitis, which is a drug and
30:00
we fully understand having gone through drug trials, I fully
30:03
understand what it takes and I'm committed to do that.
30:06
We're also working on different skin diseases when it comes to
30:11
almost life threatening type of skin diseases that they want to
30:15
eventually cure them. So my legacy is never about
30:18
look, I had created a brand. It's so cool.
30:22
I'm not a brand person. I can't even tell you if I like
30:25
blue or red. More like you'll put me in a
30:27
room and you'll see me when I'm dead and I can't come up with an
30:30
answer for that. But what I'm good at is to
30:34
continue the scientific discovery and continue the
30:37
scientific research in the hope of saving people's lives.
30:41
Might be too grandiose, but improving people's lives that
30:44
we're very much committed to and that is behind everything we do
30:48
here today. It's, it's so great to hear
30:51
Sophie, because your passion for what you do really comes
30:56
through. And I think that it's beautiful,
30:58
beautiful to hear, beautiful to see.
31:00
I know, like in a way you're saying, well, it's not saving
31:02
people's lives. But at the same time, you know,
31:04
and I know when people have, you were saying you've had distress
31:09
from skin conditions in your life.
31:11
I went through a time many years ago where I had bad skin for a
31:15
year. I didn't want to go anywhere,
31:16
right. So it changes your life.
31:18
So when you know what you're working on, just making a
31:20
difference in the world. So congratulations for
31:23
everything that you're doing and thank you for helping our
31:26
industry and thank you so much for joining us today.
31:30
I can't wait to see a year from now what Paviz is doing.
31:34
And I hope that you'll come back and tell us all about it and
31:37
where you've gone and what's been happening.
31:40
Yeah, love to. Thank you so much, Doctor Randy.
31:42
It's such a pleasure talking with you today.
31:45
Absolutely. And thank you so much for
31:46
joining us, everybody. Thank you for joining the Doctor
31:49
Randy Show and see you on the next episode.
31:53
Doctor Randy Boyett holds a PhD and is a recognized leader in
31:56
the aesthetics and medical industry.
31:59
She is not a licensed medical doctor.
32:01
All commentary and product recommendations are based on
32:04
industry expertise and are provided for informational
32:07
purposes only.