Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / [EP 373] Mazzy Star – So Tonight That I Might See (Album Deep Dive + “Fade Into You” Story) with Anthony Gomez III

Transcript

[EP 373] Mazzy Star – So Tonight That I Might See (Album Deep Dive + “Fade Into You” Story) with Anthony Gomez III · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Mazzie Starr play it through, and if you know anything
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: about this band, they played it in a way that
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: was entirely hushed. They were covered in shadows on stage.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: You couldn't see the singer on the stage, you could
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: hardly see the guitarists, couldn't really see anyone. And at
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the very end the audience kind of gave this round
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: of applause, and in a very famous moment, the lead singer,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Hope Sandival, leans into the microphone and essentially chastises the audience.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: She says, why were you clapping? You weren't even listening.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: Oh totally bummed rock and Roll. I mean gotta leave you.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: You're reading. Little hands says it's time to rock and roll.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Rec rode up, I totally booked.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Booked on Rock the podcast for those
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: about to read and Rock. Eric Senisch, Before we get
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: into this episode and introduce this episode's guests, just want
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: to let you know listeners and viewers can get fifteen
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: percent off classic rock merchandise said Oldglory dot com with
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: the code Booked on Rock the links in the show
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: notes or at booked on rock dot Com under my deals.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Anthony Gomez the third. He's the author of Mazzie Stars,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: so tonight that I might see part of Bloomsbury Publishing's
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: thirty three in a third series. Anthony, Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Eric always look forward to having authors of books as
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: part of the series. It's such a great series of books.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming you are quite honored to be part of
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: this thirty three and a third series.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's a you know, I don't know if
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: you want to hear the full story, but the initial
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: idea for this book, let me just say I think
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I came up with it probably ten years ago. Now
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I realized twenty sixteen I had picked up one of
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: which I think is still one of the coolest volumes
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: in the series, one written by Alex Nivin on Oasis.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Definitely maybe who somehow convinces you that Oasis are the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: great socialist band of the nineties. I don't know if
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: that argument has any sway, but I read it back
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: then and I'm like, oh my gosh, I got to
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: write my own I got to write something in the series,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and it's taken me a while to get there. But yeah,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: I'm super proud, super excited to be part of it.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: Well, from what I read, you were a little timid,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: in fact, too timid to take the plunge and submit
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: a proposal during the annual open call for thirty three
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: and a third. So you do think your wife say
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: she helped to push you out of that comfort zone
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and just think about this book let alone getting started
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: on it. So I'm curious as to what was holding
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: you back and what was it that your wife was
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: able to do to or say to finally get you
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: the place where you're ready to take that plunge.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: I think, like a lot of people who want to
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: write for the series, or want to write about music
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: at all. Right, you get this question, which if you're
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: not familiar with the series thirty three and a third
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: is one writer writing about one album they deem is significant,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: And you think about the kind of music you want
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to write about, You think about the album especially you
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: want to write about, and you kind of come up
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: with a few different options, a few different ideas. And
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the first time I thought about what I want to
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: write about, I thought about Mazzie Starr back in twenty sixteen,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: but I thought about their first album. She hangs brightly
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: which was the one I was kind of more honestly into,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: or the one I was more fascinated by. But I
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: was also thinking about writing on Morrissey and his album
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: You Are the Quarry from two thousand and four, which
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: is this kind of strange album in which he's on
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: one hand the little in England in the UK, but
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: on the other hand talking about Mexican Americans in LA
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: with a song like first of the Game to Die.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: And I was also thinking about my chemical romance and
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: this weird Mexican fandom they had, and I just, you know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: I was drawn to those ideas but also kind of
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: bored by them. I'd see other people do things, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I kept coming back to Mazzie Star over the years,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: but being like, do I really want to write about
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: something that's so personal to me that I care so
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: much about, And finally my wife said, just do it.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Get the proposal out there and even see if they'll respond.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: I'm one of the lucky to have submitted a proposal
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: one time and had it work out. But it was,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: like I said, a long journey to get there, and
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I'm glad I chose Massie Star.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Well, let's get into the book. You write about a
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: night in October of nineteen ninety four when the band's singer,
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Hope Sandoval reacts to the audience clapping, but not the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: way that most would expect. Take us inside that night
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: at the Mint. What was happening in that room when
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: that moment unfolded.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: The Mint is this intimate blues venue in LA and
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: that's actually still around, and they pre kind of give
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: a preview in full of so tonight that I might
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: see their second album, and Mazzie Starr play it through,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: and if you know anything about this band, they played
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: it in a way that was entirely hushed. They were
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: covered in shadows on stage. You couldn't see the singer
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: on the stage, you could hardly see the guitarists, couldn't
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: really see anyone. And at the very end, the audience
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: kind of gave this round of applause, and in a
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: very famous moment, the lead singer, Hope Sandival, leans into
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the microphone and essentially chast the audience. She says, why
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: were you clapping? You weren't even listening. And I talk
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: about this moment as on one hand, you could read
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: into it and be like, oh my god, this is
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the most annoying kind of self self righteous, self pretentious
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: kind of group there is. But on the other hand,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I think if you know anything about Mazzie Starr or
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: you're fascinated by this want for silence, intimacy to listen
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: to music on a kind of intimate level, on a
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: personal level, it really resonates with the fan base. And
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: I talk about it as kind of and understanding that
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: if you are a fan, it feels like a kind
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: of ticket of an admission that you want to actually
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: be on Hopeestandimal's side when she chastises the crowd. But
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: maybe that's just me.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Well, Hope and David Roback, who they've formed the band
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: together introverts. Sadly, David is no longer with his introverts, right,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I mean even even Hope says that in an interview.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I did see that on YouTube. Yeah.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: What's one of the fun parts about this book, and
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: one of the fun parts about being a Mazzi Star
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: fan is nowadays you're kind of almost spoiled. You could
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: go online. You can go on YouTube and watch their perfume,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: live performances they have, you can watch the interviews they have.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: But what's super unusual for a band this late in
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the game from the nineteen nineties is you could pretty
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: much exhaust all the material there is in an afternoon,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: if even that, maybe several hours, you know, and you
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: come back to this group and yeah, they're constantly silent.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: They were called an interviewer's worst nightmare. They hardly like
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: to talk, They hardly like to respond to anything. When
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: journalists often ask these questions, one word could suffice if
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: any word was even given. And if you really follow
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: their career and follow their interviews, it's a nightmare of
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: trying to understand what they're about, because sometimes they didn't
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: want to speak. Sometimes when they did speak, they contradicted
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: each other. Sometimes they contradicted past interviews. Sometimes they contradicted
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: things that were known to be facts. And so this
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: is introverts galore. This is introverts forced into a spotlight,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: at least in this album and at least in this
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: particular moment. But yeah, introvert is almost too kind of
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: a word, or too small of a word for.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Them, right, you say? Silence is central to Mazzie Starr's mythology.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Is their legacy stronger because they withheld so much?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I view Hope Sandoval in particular, and
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: I view the band as part of this, as part
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: of that legacy of the kind of reluctant genius or
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: the kind of quiet, introverted genius. I think of Mazzi Starr.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: I think of Hope Sandoval like the author's Donna Tart
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: or Eleana Ferrante, if you know them, people who kind
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: of don't crave the public eye, who don't let their
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: image be circulated beyond what they want. I think about
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: them like DiAngelo. You know, someone who's willing to retreat
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: even when they have all this kind of momentum or
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: potential momentum behind them. And what shyness, as I say,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: shyness and silence isn't allowing this group to do, or
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: what it's allowed them to do is become a kind
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: of totem for all sorts of people's thoughts and desires.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: People want to kind of project their fantasies onto the band.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: People unfortunately, want to project certain fantasies onto the lead singer,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: which of course happens to many a front women in bands.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: People want to sexualize it. They want to kind of
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: see this as a kind of dream play out, but
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: it's also enabled them to kind of withstand scrutiny, able
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: to withstand political change. And it's also I think, and
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: this is an intangible factor. It's made David Roback and
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Hope sand Of all just seem cool, like they just
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: seem so above it all. They seem above the kind
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: of game of hustling for your audience, hustling for the
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: kind of attention of a record company just so you
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: could have a few more bucks, or just so you
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: could get that other record out there, just so you
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: could play a bigger stadium. And I think in the
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: age of social media, I think, in the age of
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the Internet, that just seems so unusual to us. But
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: they've held onto their silence and they managed to do
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: it for a very long time, which I think is
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: something most people could not do.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: And I think that would be much more appreciated, at
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: least in the nineties because you did have bands like
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: Pearl Jam and he Veta the reluctant rockstar. He wasn't
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the only one. I mean, Kurt Cobain, you know, guys
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: like that. So I think it was probably a good
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: time for them to surface, right, do you agree, Yeah?
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: I think so. I think along that line and I
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: talk about this, I mean, their ability to be silent
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: for so long is certainly a privilege. They came of
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: age and they kind of appeared in the right time,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, when alternative music can actually make a splash,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: when a one huge hit single could actually not only
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: sustain your career but give you money to live off of.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Because our lead singer, Hope Sandoval is not a wealthy person.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: She's coming from this working class background, and she's kind
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: of relying on record sales, relying on the kind of
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: limited interactions in the industry to also keep her afloat,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: and there is a kind of risk that that's all
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: going to go away. But the nineties has kind of
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: enabled that. The nineties has also kind of enabled the
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: refusal to sell out as a kind of paradoxical way
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: of making your kind of fortune. And so, yeah, there's
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the kind of pearl jam, there's no Nirvana, but there's
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: also all of a sudden the emergence of women doing
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: this too, a woman being able to kind of frame
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: their own kind of music scene.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: You bring in Alvera Street, the historic Mexican marketplace in
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: downtown La Mexican Iconography in Chicano culture. Why was it
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: important to place those influences near the center of this story.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: One of the things that drew me to write the
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: book is, you know, I've always talked about Mazzie Starr.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: I was always playing it, and I thought it was
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: always understood that our lead singer was a Chicano woman.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: And I always thought it was understood that she was
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: someone who just kind of embraced a kind of LA
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: that was never really shown in the movies in LA,
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: that's the East side, the Mexican Mexicano side. And when
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I would talk to people and they wouldn't know that, One,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: it kind of surprised me. But two, I didn't think
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that Hope Standival necessarily owed it to talk about it.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I didn't think this was a kind of simple story
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: of oh my, this is someone's identity influencing the music
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: per se that I did think that element was kind
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: of there. And I think if you're going to talk
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: about Mazzie Starr, and you're going to talk about them
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: as a band that's interested in both dark in the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: light and the way the light can kind of permeate
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: through the darkness of the CD elements of the city
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: that is La. You had to talk about where she
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: was from, and you had to talk about the kind
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: of one extreme violence that happened around her in East LA.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: And you had to talk about also the kind of
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Mexican agriacnography that was everywhere, especially in the eighties and nineties.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: And you had to talk about Alvera Street, which is
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: kind of a communal center, a place where you could
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: go at all times of the year to buy kind
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: of traditional Mexican items, where you could see traditional Mexican
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: music be played by musicians, where you could hear it
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: all times of the year, where you kind of go
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: through a market that feels like it could be in
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the middle of Mexico City or Baja California. And it
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: seems so obvious that there were kind of scenes and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: kind of feelings that permeedate the music that could only
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: be felt in that side of Los Angeles and a
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: side of La. I think people don't really think about
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: unless you're from there. Otherwise you're just crossing it over
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: on the freeway.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: The album opens with that big hit Fade Into You,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: that's the first track written by Hope and David Roback.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: You suggest that Sandoval is singing both to the listener
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: and to rollback. How did that change the way you
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: heard the song?
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I've always heard it, I think because of the way
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: it's used in film and TV. It's always used. I
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: call it as a cheat code for romance and nostalgia.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: It's almost always played and kind of youthful moments or
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: when people are looking back or people are kind of
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: wistful for something that may or may not happen. And
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I thought that's a great interpretation, and I don't think
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: there's any wrong interpretations, but I thought it was kind
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: of interesting how two introverts could kind of be pushed
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: into a spotlight on this song, and how two introverts
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: on this song, especially in the music video, seem constantly
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: kind of interacting with each other. And it seemed that
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: maybe there's a kind of other way of thinking about romance,
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: not just for the opposite sex, not just in the
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: kind of traditional romantic way we think of, but as friends,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: as two people who actually are able to kind of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: be comfortable with each other. I don't think there's anything
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: better than finding someone that you're able to be in
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a state of comfortable silence with that you don't always
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: have to kind of talk, You don't always have to
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: kind of find something to kind of conversate about. But
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: here are two people who are willing to kind of
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: expose themselves in a way that they didn't really have
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: in other people before, in a way that they hardly
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: even had in other bands, because these are people who
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: came from other group musical groups first. And yet what
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: does it mean to also fade into someone that you
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: really care about as a friend. And I thought maybe
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: that was another kind of interesting potential way of opening
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: the song up to a new dimension of listeners, or
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: to at least a new kind of way of thinking.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: And there are two videos, right, Two videos were made.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: There's one the Kevin Curse Lake version. That was the
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: second one made. Yeah, that was a marketing decision by
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: the label.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: It's believed to pretty much be a marketing decision. If
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: you look at the first video that they did for
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Fade Into You, which you could look on YouTube, it's
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: called the International version now. But the original cut of
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: Fade Into You was a black and white music video
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: and it had a couple of scenes of the band,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: but they were kind of covered in shadows. And when
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: it kind of zoomed away from them. It moved into
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: a building that's completely obfuscated. You can't quite tell what's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: going on. It hardly seems like thing that would have
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: wrapped up viewers on MTV back in the nineties. It's
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: kind of almost an uninteresting piece of visual art, something
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: you could see at a museum and be like, huh,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: I wonder what that's about. But instead we got a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: kind of video that's now more famous, which features the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: band David Roeback in Hope Sandaval in particular, out in
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: the southern California desert, not too far from the kind
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: of Joshua Tree area. And in the second video, which
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: was kind of a forced decision by Capitol Records, in
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the kind of terms of one critic, a kind of
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: cynical decision to kind of push our lead woman to
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the front and center to give the viewer something they
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: thought was more interesting to look at than the black
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and white fuzziness of that first video. And in the
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: second video, Mazzie Starr bring on a friend, someone that
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: they've worked with before, to help them kind of create
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: a visual image they want and that is them kind
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: of out in the desert, in which we kind of
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: see them in these kind of oft repeated, oft reposted
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: images online now, but it's a kind of interesting kind
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of and one of the few times that they're ever
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: kind of forced to do this.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: What do you think that video reveals about the band,
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe that the song alone does.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things is one it goes
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: back to that kind of Mexican agrinography, the desert, the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: kind of almost surrealist kind of landscapes that they're playing with,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the kind of ways the kind of modern world is
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: kind of crashing on the natural world is constantly happening.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: But also there's these weird, interesting slow down scenes of
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: David Roback and Hope Sandoval really kind of finding comfort
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: in each other. I think David Roback is literally driving
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Hope Sandoval across the desert at times, Hope Sandoval's looking
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: at him. I don't think necessarily romantically, but longingly happily,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: And there's a kind of comfort of them that I
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: think the song doesn't necessarily evoke on its own, but
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: by seeing them and hearing them kind of paired with
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: that song, we see that kind of friendship and we
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: see how close these people really are as a unit.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: The video the song itself. You put those together, You
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: got a big hit, reach number three on the US
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Billboard Modern Rock Track chart in nineteen eighty four, peaked
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: at number forty four on Billboard's Hot one hundred. In
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, the song eclipsed one billion plays on
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Spotify one billion. Do you think the band ever wanted
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: success on that level.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: I don't think they ever would have predicted it. I
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: hardly think they wanted it. I think one of the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: most amazing stories, if you believe it, is Fading to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: You was almost an afterthought. They claimed they wrote it
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: in an afternoon where they pretty much were walking around
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Santa Monica, Los Angeles. They go back to the studio
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: in LA and they toss off this song called Fade
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: into You, and it ends up being, of course, the
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: lead single. It's an amazing kind of coincidence, and it's
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: the most accessible track on the album. It's the most
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: radio friendly track on the album. But it's also, in
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the words of David Roback, just a great song. I
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: think anyone who listens to it, it doesn't matter the age,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: finds something that appeals to them with it. I don't
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: think it's a coincidence. It's used all the time because
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: it just evokes so much emotion, But whether they would
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: have predicted it and whether they wanted it, probably not
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: in both fronts, but.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: It has stood up so well over the years. If
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: somebody listens to it for the first time today, it's
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: of the times right now. It doesn't sound like necessarily
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: from a particular era, which is what makes it such
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: a great song. Now, the second track, Bell's Ring, you
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: say it's an announcement of emotional confidence. Can you unpack that?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think we'reas fade into You is read
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: as the kind of romantic song, or in my case,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the kind of song about friendship that was Ring becomes
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: a kind of emotional announcement of Hope Sandoval's kind of
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: comfortable voice. It becomes her own kind of poetry, becomes
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: her own kind of lyrics up front and center. Bell's
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Ring literally the kind of announcement of what this kind
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of album is feeding into of equal parts dark in
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: light of wanting to hear things, of wanting to notice things,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and seeing the kind of paradoxical ways humans have emotions,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: which of course unfolds across the album, and it's a
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: kind of beautiful song. It's I think one of the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: most underrated songs of the album. They try to kind
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of put it out there the record company and it's
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: just not absorbed with the same way. And there's a
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: couple of reasons why. One is they package older songs
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: for some reason with Fading to You, so everybody's naturally
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: going from Faded to You to the B side from
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: their earlier album. But Bell's Ring, I think is kind
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: of the one of the forgotten momentous tracks in that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: sequence in the second album.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for checking out the Booked on Rock podcast.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: If you've just found the podcast, welcome. If you've been listening,
• 20:06
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• 20:08
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• 20:11
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• 20:27
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• 20:29
  Speaker 2: episodes on the Booked on Rock YouTube channel. Find it
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: at Booked on Rock. Thanks again for listening. Now back
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: to the show Anthony Gohmez the Third. He's the author
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: of Mazzie Stars So Tonight that I might see. It's
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: part of Bloomsbury Publishing's thirty three and a third series.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: You present the Doors and the band Love as especially
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: important to David Roeback. You write that on Mary of Silence,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: rollback pulls a Jim Morrison for listeners who might not
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: immediately hear it. Where does that door influence show up
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: most clearly in this song?
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Mary of Silence I call like a Stephen king
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Carey story. It feels like someone's kind of a woman
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: is kind of hauntingly moving through, eager for revenge. I
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: think there's a great lyric about this character Mary literally
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: devouring hearts. And I talk about how the guitar on it,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: which is kind of this heavy, frequent, almost slowly drawn
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: out strum and strum and strum, just echoes so much
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: of what Jim Morrison and the Doors we're doing on
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: things like La Woman. This kind of willingness to think
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: about the darkness of La again, and this willingness to
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: think about the seediness and to bring it to the surface.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I think David Roeboch on that song in particular and
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: a few others, but on Mary of Silence in particular,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: makes his guitar sound so much like Jim Morrison's kind
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: of boorish, drunken singing. The way it sounds like Jim
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Morrison's emerging from a bar, David Roback's guitar sounds like
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: it's coming out of a honky talk following and soundtracking
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: that kind of you know, movement out.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you answered part of the question
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask is who is Mary? Do
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: you see her as a literal character or more of
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: a psychological presence throughout the song?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's such a funny thing. Is one
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: of the things I think people don't appreciate about so
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: tonight might that I might see is how much of
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: it is about these kind of especially female characters, just
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: taking back things, taking revenge or taking ownership of something.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: If you want to talk about the kind of Kirk
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Cobain feeling, it's right there. You know, Kirk Cobain does
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: this all the time, and like Francis Farmer wants a revenge,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: but Mary in particular is, Yeah, she's devouring all those
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: people who wronged her. She's willing to eat the hearts
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: of those who broke her romantic spirit. She's willing to
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: kind of take revenge on the men, the woman and
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: those who don't understand her. But also she's a silent person.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: She wants to be an introvert. She wants to kind
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: of stay quiet, and a world wants to make her noisy,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: make her talk, and she kind of says no. As
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: a character in that story.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: There's a cover of the love song five String Serenade,
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and you say, David stays close to singer Arthur Lee's
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: original feel, but Hope transforms it. What changes the most
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: in her version.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Arthur Lee's version is a curiosity to me, there's something
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: kind of I can't quite fully pinpoint it down, and
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I've always struggled with this. There's something paradoxical about Arthur
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Lee's voice. For as sweet sounding as it is, as
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: kind as it is, there seems to be this underpinning
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: of a darkness five String Serenade, and my estimation the
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: way he records it feels kind of heartbroken, it feels
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: kind of disjointed, it feels kind of off in a way.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Whereas Hope Sandoval makes it such an ode of devotion.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: There is a kind of sadness that underpins it, but
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it feels much more lighthearted, and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: it feels like a kind of lightness. And that ends
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: the second or the first half of the record.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: And you suggest blue Light, the next track, which leads
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: offside to may reflect the loss of a bandmate. Who
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: was that bandmate and what led you to make that connection?
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Blue Light is a curiosity in the album, and that
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: it could be kind of seen a couple of ways.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: On one hand, I think about it as Hope Sandival
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: kind of reflecting on one of her earlier bands, going Home,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: what she formed with Sylvia Gomez, one of her high
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: school friends, and this is a weird group, and that
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: they had success at least in the LA scene fairly early,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: but all of a sudden, despite the fact that they
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: have this momentum, despite the fact that they have this
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: kind of embrace and this kind of cult, following all
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, Hope Sandival's bandmate, Sylvia leaves. It's believed
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: to be a kind of tea or she believed she
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: went on to be a teacher, wanting to kind of
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: help the kids that she remember growing up with in
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: high school, middle school and so forth, and so blue
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Light in some ways, functions is kind of a way
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: of seeing your friend off, a way of kind of
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: seeing your friend go on and feeling kind of sad
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: about it, but also kind of accepting that kind of
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: emotional release.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: There's a great comparison you make, that image of the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: blue light in her friend's eyes compared to Jay Gatsby's
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: green light right in The Great Gatsby. What makes that
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: parallel meaningful here?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Well, if I could just say one thing too to start,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: is like, I don't know if anyone else does this,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: but as a kind of reader, as a kind of
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: literary person, like I always want to know what my
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: favorite musicians and artists are reading. And one of the
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: most frustrating things to me is that I never could
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: find out the books David Roback and Hope stand of
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: all we're reading like they never wanted to admit it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: They get asked constantly in the nineties, who are you
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: listening to? What are you reading? And they don't say,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: but there's this image in blue Light that can't be
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: I think if you're born in the US, it can't
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: be a coincidence. Hope Sandoval's narrator is looking out at
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: this water. There's movement happening of a boat, and she
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: notices the blue light in both the boat her friend's eyes.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: How can that not be so akin to Jay Gatsby
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: looking out of a dock and seeing the green light.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: That represents depending on what high school teacher you had,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: the American dream, lost love, romance, ready to bloom again, greed,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: the death of the American Empire, whatever it may be.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: But here's Hope Sandoval channeling it. I think again for
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: that kind of lost romance feeling in this case again to.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: A friend, I've mentioned the interview that I had seen
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: from mid nineties where Hope talks about a lot of
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: different things, but I think that's the one where maybe
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: she mentions I'm an introvert. But anyway, she talks about
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: the Rolling Stones being an influence early Rolling Stones, and
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: there's a particular song, going Home from nineteen sixty six
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: as her favorite, and you point out that there's echoes
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of going home in the track She's My Baby. What's
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: the clearest similarity listeners should listen for?
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: On one hand, it's the lyrics I think in one hand,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Hope Sandoval is kind of purposely cribbing lyrics from Mick
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Jagger and Keith Richards here, but she's kind of alternating then, right,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: it's a person kind of claiming she's my baby, but
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: it doesn't quite feel right, It doesn't quite feel there.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: But there's also David Roback and Hope Sandoval playing guitar
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: in a way or playing the music in a way
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: that's so much like that song going Home. The guitar
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: is literally bouncing along. There's a kind of narration for
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it too, but it subverts that kind of trend for
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones to claim ownership of a woman. Here
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: it bounces along, only for us to learn right that
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: she's not really a person's baby, because the song will
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: eventually point out.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: There's the overlook unreflected. She warns against being consumed by
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: the past. What is she cautioning against exactly?
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I view Unreflected as kind of a goodbye to the
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: kind of history of early Mazzie Star. For those who
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: don't know, Mazie Star form out of the ashes of
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: David Roback's prior band, and Hope Sandoval replaces that band
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: ople's lead singer and they kind of tour for several
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: years under the name of Opal, and there's a kind
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: of punishment to that, because, oh my gosh, I finally
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: have a band, I finally have comfort, I finally have musicians.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I enjoy that, I respect, But I'm singing all these
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: other person songs and it takes them a while to
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: break out of it. But I view unreflected, which comes
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: from that time, as a kind of willingness to kind
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of forget the past or to cut it off, and
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to think about how important it is to unreflect, to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: think about the present, and to simply kind of accept
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: that and move forward. And that's a kind of valuable lesson,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: especially when this lead singer is like, you know, losing
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: a friend who wants to be a teacher, when she's
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: kind of forced into the front woman role and not
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: just the songwriter and so forth, and when she's kind
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: of forced to kind of figure out her voice in
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: a band that's starting to rise up.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: An accusation often lobbied at mas you stars, that the
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: music is too dark, too miserable. Right, that's the confrontation
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: and the willingness to engage in the dark sides of
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: life that is present in track like Marry of Silence,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: but it's also in that next track Wasted. What do
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: you think people miss when they reduce the band to
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: that label.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I think they miss the fact that, in the word
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: of David Roeback's friend Susannah Hoffs, who's eventually the lead
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: singer of the Bengals, that there is light that pierces
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: through any kind of darkness. David Roback, the guitarist, was
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: always looking in her terms for the Rose and the Pavement,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: and there's something about this album in particular, and I
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: make a note of this, and I still believe it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: true that the band is never actually as bright again, right,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: the other albums are much more dark, much more kind
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: of bleak in a way. But here, whether it's a
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: song like Wasted or We'll eventually get to so Tonight
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that I might see, there's light constantly breaking through and Wasted,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: which is kind of again goes back to that doors
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: feeling of kind of the boorishness, the kind of drunken
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: seeding feeling of being in this kind of overcrowded, weird
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: city of La contains a momentum to get out of it.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: It contains the feeling like you're going to be going on.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: You're not just wasted. Actually, you're gonna be coming out.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: You're gonna be sobering up to see something eventually beautiful
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: or what could be beautiful to you.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I gotta say I'm mesmerized by the track Into Dust
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: that Now. I didn't listen to this album until we
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: agreed to do this interview. I only knew of the hit,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: and so I listened to the whole album and just
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: blown away at how great it is. But that particular
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: track just, I mean, it mesmerized me. As I said.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: It's followed by the final track, which is the title
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: track you just mentioned. And you describe the shift from
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Into Dust into the title track as moving from bleakness
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: to something almost like a plea. What's happening emotionally here
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: in that transition between Into Dust into the title track.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Into Dust is like this long sequence of a song, right.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: It has this poetic, haunting quality in which are kind
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: of hope Sandovollar's narrators kind of issuing this kind of poetic,
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: very poetic set of lyrics out. And I have to say,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: just before I fully answer your question, Into Dust is
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: weirdly enough, like the second most popular song on this album,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: and I've never fully been able to understand why other
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: than the fact that it's such an interesting, powerful, mesmerizing song.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: But it's also kind of used in movies and TV
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: shows in a very kind of interesting way. But it
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: reminds you, I think when you listen to it is
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the way the album flows and the way you move
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: into the title track of the album, how important it is,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: even for those completely introverted, even for the shy, even
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: for those who only want kind of a few friends,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: how important a small community is to you. And so
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: we have this track of seeing things like dust a
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: feeling like you're fading away, only for the album eventually
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: eventually to remind us that other people make you whole.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: And as we get to so Tonight that I might see,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: we begin to see all of a sudden sunshine on
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: a rainy day, just kind of this refrain that closes
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: the album, and I think that's kind of that feeling.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: It's like you're waking up to a new dawn or
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: whatever state you're in right, sun's going to rise again
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: Find the book down rock web site at booked on
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: rock dot com. Therein can find all the back episodes
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: of the show, the latest episode in video and audio.
• 33:07
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• 33:09
  Speaker 2: to the podcast, plus all the social media platforms were
• 33:12
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• 33:16
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• 33:20
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• 33:23
  Speaker 2: before you go, check out the booked on Rock online store.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Pick up some booked on rock merch. It's all at
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: booked on rock dot com. After they broke up in
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: ninety seven, they did reform. In twenty twelve, they released
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: their fourth studio album, Seasons of Your Day, and then, sadly,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: David Roback passed twenty twenty at the age of sixty one.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: He lost a battle with cancers. Hope Santoval continues to
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: create and collaborate, but is Mazzi Star pretty much done.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: It's a weird thing. And I have to say, one
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: of the most unfortunate things about the book is, you know,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: there are other band members too. They don't play necessarily
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a central songwriter role, but they were always kind of
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: there on the few tours they ever did, or kind
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: of in the background. And I have to say, David
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Roback's passing in some ways it's like losing part of
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the soul of the group heavily. But other band members,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: like Keith Mitchell, who's a drummer who did some drum
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: tracks for this album, he passed away too, several years before,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and so it seems to me though that without Keith Mitchell,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: but especially without David Roeback, how can there be Mazzie Starr.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I view David Roeback as essentially a kind of co narrator.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: His guitar playing, his piano, playing whatever instrument he hopped
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: on is always the equally, I think, the powerful thing
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: you hear besides Hope Sandraval's voice. And so I think
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Mazzie Starr is kind of a live project. As in
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a live project maybe gone now I know. And I
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: think it's been known that there's a treasure trove maybe
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: out there. We don't know how much music there is,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: we don't know how much of an archive there is,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: but maybe one day it will be released. And so
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: if Mazzie Star continues, it's going to be in the
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: form of like a ghost in other words, maybe it
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: will happen while Hope's alive in her words, maybe not,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: or probably when all.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Is said and done, how should Mazzie star and more specifically,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: this album be remembered?
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: That such an interesting question, right. It's like, I hope
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: people think about Fading to You. I hope people think
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: about the other songs. But I think what this song
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: should be remembered for is not just as it's canonical
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: place in the dream pop kind of cannon or tradition.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: But I hope people think about it as truly a
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: kind of album about a time and place when you're
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: willing to kind of be alone, as I say in
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the book, to drift off into the twilight zone, when
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you're willing to kind of let a kind of powerful, slow,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: quiet music just consume you, and you're willing to let
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: these kind of shy, introverted narrators essentially tell you a
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: story in a way I don't really think is echoed anymore.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: I haven't really found something that feels this kind of
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Nazzistar hole. There's just something uniquely emotional and powerful in
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: these forces coming together in this album.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: So Tonight that I might see. It is part of
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Bloomsbury Publishing thirty three and a third series, and the
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: book is out now. You can get it wherever books
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: are sold. You can also look forward at your nearest
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: independent bookstore if you have one nearby. You can find
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: out at booked on rock dot com. And can people
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: find you online? Anthony I am.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Inspired by Hope Sandoval and David Roback. I am not
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: much online. I have an Instagram out there easy to
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: find Anthony gom As eighty eight. I'm super inactive though,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: but please follow if not my website Anthony gom As
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: third dot com, Anthony Gomesi dot com.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I'd like to.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah updating you from Mazzistar you know, news public event.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: I have to plug it legally but also personally. May sixteenth,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: official La launch party for this book in Highland Park,
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: not too far from her. Hope sand of all grew
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: up and that'd be great. Yeah, And I think you know,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: one last note, let me just say too, I forgot
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: if people want to remember think about this album too.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I hope they remember it as an album about La
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: in a way chronically in a kind of history that's
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: just unfortunately kind of forgotten, gentrified out and that just
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't exist in that city anymore.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: And as with every great book that's written about an album,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: or a song or a band. You read the book
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: and you then appreciate that music or that band or
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: that song so much more. And so you did that
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: for me. This is a band again I knew about
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: I knew about Fading to You, and that was pretty
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: much it seeing an MTV listening to it on the radio.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: So to be able to invest in this entire album
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: because of this book after reading the book, just thank
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: you for a great, great job on the book.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Very kind of you. Thank you. And can I just
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: add one thing about the thirty three and a third series. Sure,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if any of your listeners have ever
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: wanted to write one, If they have or if they
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: wanted to, everybody knows. The funniest thing about the thirty
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: three and a third series is every reader thinks they
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: could have written it better. And so it's very kind
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: to get good news. But also like I love seeing
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the different reactions, positive and negative, people being like, why
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: didn't you say this about Mazzie Starr? Why'd you add
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: this about it? It's absolutely exciting and it's very cool.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: But you know what, I wrote the book about Mazzie Starr.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I would have wanted to read. I'm glad that you
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: enjoyed it. Eric, so very exciting.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Anthony Gomez the third, thank you so much, thank you.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: That's it. It's in the books.