Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / FAFO Parenting Is Breaking Your Connection

Transcript

FAFO Parenting Is Breaking Your Connection · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: There's a brand new parenting style that everybody seems to
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: want to talk to me about. I've been interviewed in
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the UK, in the USA and all over Australia about
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: FAFO parenting. Now, Kylie and I are non swearers, but
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the first F in FAFAX parenting is one of those
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: swear words that we don't say and you probably don't
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  Speaker 1: want your kids sayings. F around and find out. This
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  Speaker 1: is a new tough love kind of parenting style that
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: is exactly the opposite of gentle parenting. And today I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to unpack why it's all the rage, where this
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  Speaker 1: has come from, and why every journalist in the country
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  Speaker 1: has been on the phone to me in the last
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: month to talk about FAFA parenting. Stay with us. That's next. Gooday,
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  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families podcast where you get real
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  Speaker 1: parenting solutions every single day. This is Australia's most downloaded
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: parenting podcast. We are justin and Kylie Cours and the
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: parents have children and we are going to talk about
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  Speaker 1: FAFO parenting today. Kylie. Recently another reporter was in touch
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: about FAFO parenting wanting to know all the details. So
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: I've just written down all the questions that I've been
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  Speaker 1: getting from reporters over the last few weeks about this
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  Speaker 1: parenting style that is sweeping the world by storm. I've
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: handed them to you. You're going to be our reporter extraordinary.
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  Speaker 1: You might even have some comments and stories to share.
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  Speaker 1: Let's go, let's pick this apart and find out why
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  Speaker 1: this is all over social media and on all of
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  Speaker 1: the major news media sites.
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  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for spending time with me today, doctor Justin.
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  Speaker 1: When you do this, I haven't really.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Heard a lot about this fafou parenting.
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  Speaker 1: That's because you also deleted social media and you don't
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  Speaker 1: watch the news. But yes, it's everywhere.
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  Speaker 2: How would you describe it?
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  Speaker 1: So this is the tough love parenting. It's kind of
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  Speaker 1: like the pendulum has swung so, I don't know, a decade,
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  Speaker 1: maybe more ago, probably two decades ago, there was that
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  Speaker 1: whole tough love kids just have to do as they're told.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, this is all that was last generation.
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  Speaker 1: Traditional parenting is another generation. But things come in trends, right,
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  Speaker 1: like mustaches. I'm going to offend half of the male
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: population and probably a whole bunch of females.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: I talk about mullets, then if you're going to.
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  Speaker 1: Mullets, mustache is the same thing. Right in the eighties,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: everyone had them. They're stupid. I mean, why do you
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  Speaker 1: want to have this little bit of fuzz above your
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  Speaker 1: top lip and nothing else. I tried to grow one
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  Speaker 1: once upon a time, and you just said get rid
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  Speaker 1: of it, and you were right, Kylie. Just like bad
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  Speaker 1: hairdoos and bad facial hair, parenting also goes in trends.
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  Speaker 1: So over the last ten to fifteen years, we've become
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  Speaker 1: increasingly gentle. In fact, I would say that started in
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  Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties when John Gottman wrote Raising an Emotionally
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  Speaker 1: Intelligent Child and started talking about the power that comes
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: from validating our children's emotions. And what's happened since nineteen
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  Speaker 1: ninety seven. We're now I can't do maths very well,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking this is thirty years down the track.
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  Speaker 1: We have made emotions king, and when a child is
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  Speaker 1: having an emotion, we have to validate that emotion, and
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  Speaker 1: we have to therapeutically analyze that emotion with a child.
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  Speaker 1: And frankly, we tell our children that they should believe
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  Speaker 1: what their emotions are telling them, because emotions give us truth,
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  Speaker 1: which is unhealthy, unhelpful, it's a lie. Emotions are liars.
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  Speaker 1: They give us information, but that information is not always accurate. Nevertheless,
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  Speaker 1: as a result of the backlash to gentle pairing, I mean,
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  Speaker 1: if you watch Parental Guidance season one, two, or three,
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  Speaker 1: you would have seen a lot of really soft, gentle
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  Speaker 1: cotton wooling and bubble wrapping of children in some of
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  Speaker 1: those parenting styles. And what that has basically done is
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  Speaker 1: it's made a lot of people really mad about the
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  Speaker 1: way kids these days are being raised. And so the
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  Speaker 1: backlash means that we've got to go from one extreme
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  Speaker 1: to the other. So one pole is gentle parenting and
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  Speaker 1: FAFO parenting. If I won to find out is basically,
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  Speaker 1: if you really want to test me, test me, and
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  Speaker 1: I'll show you where the boundary is, and I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to do it in a really unkind, nasty way.
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  Speaker 2: Would you suggest that this is a direct result of
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  Speaker 2: parents just feeling really burned out and looking for permission
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  Speaker 2: to just let the kids do whatever they want? Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: is that where we're going?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, partly, yes, this might sound a little odd,
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  Speaker 1: but I think it's also a reflection of our times.
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  Speaker 1: It's a reflection of our broader socio political climate. So
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  Speaker 1: we're seeing increasingly that people like Nigel Farage in the
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  Speaker 1: UK and Donald Trump in the US and strong men
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  Speaker 1: and I'm using the word men on purpose because they
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  Speaker 1: generally are strong men kind of political leaders are shifting
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  Speaker 1: the political discourse and hardening it and coarsening it and
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  Speaker 1: making people feel like, well, it's a dog eat dog
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  Speaker 1: world out there, and we need to be top dog.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that that kind of trickles down into
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  Speaker 1: things like business and our living rooms. So to me,
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  Speaker 1: this is a little bit political, it's a little bit
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  Speaker 1: socio cultural. And yeah, I think sometimes parents are just
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  Speaker 1: so sick of going hang on these little people who
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  Speaker 1: are knee high or waist high or chest high. They
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  Speaker 1: don't dict eight terms, And I'm sick of being dictated
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  Speaker 1: to by an eleven year old or an eight year
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  Speaker 1: old or a three year old. I'm the adult in
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  Speaker 1: the in the relationship, and I'm just going to stamp
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  Speaker 1: my authority. It's really ineffective, by the way, But I
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  Speaker 1: kind of think there's a confluence of all of these factors.
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  Speaker 2: So from what I understand, everything you've shared FAFO parenting
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  Speaker 2: claims to allow children to experience the consequences of their
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  Speaker 2: own actions.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah kind of yeah, yeah, Well are they really experiencing
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  Speaker 1: the consequences of their actions or are they experiencing parents
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  Speaker 1: who are just sick of who are going to impose
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  Speaker 1: consequences because they don't like what the kids are doing.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it could be a bit about it.
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  Speaker 2: I kind of get the impression, and maybe I've got
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  Speaker 2: it completely wrong. But if we're going to just allow
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  Speaker 2: kids to do whatever they want, right and then experience
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  Speaker 2: the consequence the consequences, then this is actually just neglectful,
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  Speaker 2: disengaged parenting.
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  Speaker 1: In some ways. But there's there's a bit of acrimony,
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  Speaker 1: there's a bit of animosity. There's a bit of anger
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  Speaker 1: associated with as well.
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  Speaker 2: Well, are we creating the consequence for our chu?
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  Speaker 1: It's both.
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  Speaker 2: Are they experiencing it? Because so I'm.
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  Speaker 1: Going to start calling it matho parenting, because mess around
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  Speaker 1: and find out just is more consistent with our values, right,
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  Speaker 1: So matho parents will approach these challenges in a couple
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  Speaker 1: of ways. First off, there's the you want to touch
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  Speaker 1: the hot stove, well mess around and find out. You
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  Speaker 1: want to play with a ball in the house, Well
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: mess around and find out, right, So there's just the
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  Speaker 1: you're going to experience the consequences. You don't want to
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  Speaker 1: do your essay, you don't want to do your assignment,
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  Speaker 1: you don't want to do your homework, mess around and
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  Speaker 1: find out you don't want.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, So my seven year old decides that they're going
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  Speaker 2: to play cricket in the house and they smash the
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  Speaker 2: front window.
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  Speaker 1: Well, that's where it switches from. You're going to experience
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  Speaker 1: the natural consequences of doing dumb things like saying horrible
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  Speaker 1: words to your friends, or being rude to the teacher,
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  Speaker 1: or mess around and find out. There's that. But then
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  Speaker 1: the second one is if you mess around with my rules,
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  Speaker 1: you'll find out what the consequences will be. So there's
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  Speaker 1: that that punitive approach as well. It's not just an
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  Speaker 1: abrogation of parental responsibility. Just socialize your kids and you're
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  Speaker 1: just going to say you figure it out, jump on
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  Speaker 1: the e bike and ride down the street on the
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  Speaker 1: wrong side with three people on the back. Just mess around,
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  Speaker 1: find out, and then the police will pull you over. Well,
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  Speaker 1: your problem, your fault. Now you've learned your lesson, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: So that's the this is not my problem approach. But
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  Speaker 1: then there's also the this is my problem approach and
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  Speaker 1: you've messed around and now you're going to find out
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  Speaker 1: how I feel about it, So it actually goes in
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  Speaker 1: both directions.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm just really curious about how we're going to
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  Speaker 2: move forward, like, how do parents navigate this? Yeah kind
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  Speaker 2: of trend because it's going to come up more and more, right,
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  Speaker 2: We're going to we're going to be experiencing it as
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  Speaker 2: our children socialize with other families. How do we safeguard
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  Speaker 2: our kids against it? How do we work through it?
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  Speaker 2: How do we come to our own conclusions?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about that right after the break Solutions
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  Speaker 1: for MATHO slash FAFA Parenting, We're back. This is the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast where you get real parents solutions every
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: single day. Is this parenting style working? I mean, when
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: you hear this, you've been married to me and heard
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  Speaker 1: me go through the books and the podcasts and the
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: talks and all that sort of stuff for years. I'd
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  Speaker 1: love to get a non expert perspective when you hear
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  Speaker 1: about this Before I sort of step into what I
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  Speaker 1: would really like to say, what's your initial response to
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  Speaker 1: this style of parenting? This hard? Nosed.
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  Speaker 2: It just makes me angry, like, it makes me really angry,
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  Speaker 2: I feel, and I said it earlier in my comments.
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  Speaker 2: I feel like this is just an abdication of parental
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  Speaker 2: responsibility because I'm allowing my kids to make their own
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  Speaker 2: choices and they'll find out for themselves what's right or wrong.
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  Speaker 2: Without recognizing developmental appropriate stages of life, cognitive function and development,
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  Speaker 2: there's no safeguard. There's no security in that for our children.
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  Speaker 1: It feels like there's a lack of warmth. It's this,
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  Speaker 1: it's just this really harsh concept. I mean, this could
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  Speaker 1: actually be done nicely and it could be healthy. And
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  Speaker 1: I've not had this thought at all until today. I've
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  Speaker 1: done too many interviews and not even said this once.
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  Speaker 1: But like, mess around and find out has an implicit
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  Speaker 1: threat in it, right, there's this idea that you can
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  Speaker 1: mess around and it's going to hurt you too bad,
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  Speaker 1: so sad you should have listened to me, but you
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  Speaker 1: chose not to. There's that kind of I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: there's almost like an arrogance.
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  Speaker 2: There's an but there's also lots of things that our
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  Speaker 2: children could participate in that don't necessarily hurt them in
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  Speaker 2: the moment.
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  Speaker 1: Or other people, right, and they can learn great lessons
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  Speaker 1: from them.
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  Speaker 2: Well, no, they're not going to learn anything because there's
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  Speaker 2: no consequences in the moment.
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  Speaker 1: Well there's that too, Okay, Okay, But if.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: My child starts smoking a vape as a seven year old,
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  Speaker 2: I mean, that's what we're dealing with. Right, You've got
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: a parent who's saying you can work it out. My
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: child starts doing that, they don't recognize any significance and
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: impact in their decision in the moment, of course, right.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: But over three years, four years, five years, six years,
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  Speaker 2: fifty years of that behavior, that's when the consequence is
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  Speaker 2: really hit. There's no security, there's no safeguard. It just
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  Speaker 2: feels like you're throwing them into the big wide world
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  Speaker 2: without any preparation. That's what it feels like.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, sometimes it's caring, other times it doesn't.
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  Speaker 1: Like I had a surf trip last year. I went
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: to Sumatra, Indonesian Ireland, and like, if you've driven in Indonesia,
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  Speaker 1: it's an experience. But in the particular place that I went,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: had a fly to the airport and then it was
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  Speaker 1: a six hour drive and this road like there's just
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  Speaker 1: houses everywhere along this road. There's people all over the place.
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  Speaker 1: And as we drive along this road with no shoulder
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  Speaker 1: and no footpaths because the infrastructure just doesn't exist in
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  Speaker 1: this part of Indonesia, probably most of Indo, there's kids
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  Speaker 1: right next to the road, right next to a thousand
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  Speaker 1: million mopeds and motorcycles and cars and trucks. And I
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: said to the driver, did you grow up here? He
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: said yeah. I said, how did your parents teach you
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: about road safety? And he didn't say it in these words,
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  Speaker 1: but he basically gave me this fa faux mafo idea
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: mess around and find out. He said, they didn't. They
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: just let us figure it out and kids. I mean,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: I guess some kids end up worse for wear as
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: a result of that, But he said, most kids just
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  Speaker 1: figure it out. They learned that it's not safe to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: be on the roads. Now, this does my head in.
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  Speaker 1: But there's no explicit teaching. There's no parental stepping in
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  Speaker 1: and actively teaching children to stay away from the road.
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  Speaker 1: I can't comprehend this.
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  Speaker 2: No, But each of the times we've visited villagers and
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: things like that, families are very insular. They stick together.
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  Speaker 2: They're quite especially in the heat of the day, which
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: is when you're going to see traffic.
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  Speaker 1: Well maybe, I mean I was watching kids on the side.
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking two year olds on the side of the
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  Speaker 1: road with no adults in sight. Like it was doing
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  Speaker 1: my head in. So I'm not arguing that we should
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  Speaker 1: do that, by the way, and not even slightly. But
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  Speaker 1: what I'm highlighting really is that children will learn life's lessons.
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  Speaker 1: Natural selection will select for genetics that orient us away
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  Speaker 1: from dangerous things. Apparently, although again this e byte thing
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  Speaker 1: that's going bonkers everywhere we turn at the moment maybe
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: argues against that.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Well. A couple of weeks ago, we had a conversation
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: all about resilience specifically in our children and how it's relational.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I just feel like, based on everything we're talking about today,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: where's the resilience for our children? Because it's the tough
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: en up princess kind of, you know, white knuckle it
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: through life kind of conversation we're having here because there's
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: no one guiding them.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the critical thing if we were
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: to bring it right back to basics, and we need
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: to because we can't talk all day. Children need security,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: they need predictability. They need clear rules and boundaries. They
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: had parents who work with them rather than do things
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: to them, and FAFA is fundamentally about I'm going to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: do things to you or I'm going to live do
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: things to you, depending on which way it goes. If
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you want to mess around, if you don't want to
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: follow the rules, it's just this this blase a. Oh well,
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I mean I've told you what's going to happen. You're
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: going to do the wrong thing and to stay on screens. Well,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to take your phone off. You're going
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: to cut it off. I'm emotionally distant and uninvolved. I
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: don't know that that's a healthy way to be. Like
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I said, we've gone from one end of extremes to
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: the other. The stuff we talk about consistently on the pod.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Build a relationship with the kids, work stuff out, recognize
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it when they're having big emotions. It's not usually about you,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: it's about them. Just be with them and say, I
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: know this is hard, we'll figure it out once you're
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: feeling okay, and then problem solved. So that they understand
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: that there are expectations and rules. Get them to make
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: those rules as much as possible, and then support them
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: to live them. I don't know why we keep on
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: complicating parenting and why the media, Well, the media loves
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: these narratives because it gets eyeballs. That's my take. I
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: don't know if that's helpful, but I wanted to talk
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: about FAFO parenting, MATHO parenting, mess around and find out,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: don't do it. Don't do it unless you're exhausted and
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: you've had enough and you're having a bad day. But
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: then apologize and don't do it again. That's that's kind
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: of well.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time to say, just.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: So that you've got back to report mode.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I am going to assume that if we want to
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: have strong, healthy relationships with our children that last well
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: and truly once they leave our home into that adulthood,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: that finding a way to develop an autonomy supportive.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or explain in power, you got.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: It, We're going to experience a lot more joy and
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: happiness in our families.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, FAFO breaks the connection. You said it before,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: and you'll bang on. Connection is the heart of relationships
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: and the heart of what makes families tick. The Happy
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
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• 15:00
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• 15:03
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• 15:06
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