Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Charles Mattson: Tacoma's Oldest Unsolved Kidnapping | 1936

Transcript

Charles Mattson: Tacoma's Oldest Unsolved Kidnapping | 1936 · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:00
  From that point on, a nightmarish scenario unfolded as the intruder strode into the home,
• 0:11
  trailing the frightened little Charles Mattson.
• 0:15
  Once he had made his entrance into the living room, he shouted, "Don't you kids try
• 0:19
  anything?
• 0:20
  Because I have a bulletproof vest on."
• 0:23
  As he demanded money, which is like, "Okay, but they don't have guns."
• 0:27
  This is their packin'.
• 0:29
  Yeah.
• 0:30
  Hi, Cassie.
• 0:34
  Hi, Caitlyn.
• 0:42
  Hi, creepy people.
• 0:44
  Hello!
• 0:45
  But if you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides,
• 0:53
  where we chat about true crime, spooky things, paranormal, weird stuff, witchy stuff,
• 1:00
  kind of whatever really floats our boat in the moment.
• 1:05
  But from the Pacific Northwest, that's kind of the caveat, I guess.
• 1:10
  It's the vibe.
• 1:11
  I don't know.
• 1:12
  Yeah, that's the vibe.
• 1:13
  We're all about the vibes today.
• 1:15
  Do you know what else floats our boat and vibes are other parts?
• 1:22
  Oh boy.
• 1:23
  I didn't know where I was going with that.
• 1:26
  But I knew that I was going to say we do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for
• 1:31
  a little deeper insight into our topic.
• 1:33
  That's true.
• 1:34
  It is a long one.
• 1:38
  And it's pretty sad.
• 1:43
  So long.
• 1:44
  That's your vibe.
• 1:45
  I know.
• 1:46
  I'm really, I've caught a vibe recently.
• 1:51
  Only my bridal era is over.
• 1:54
  I'm just really back in like the sad.
• 1:58
  Sad.
• 1:59
  I'm in my feelings and they are sad.
• 2:02
  Great.
• 2:03
  Yeah.
• 2:04
  So that's something to like forward do.
• 2:07
  We can drink about it.
• 2:08
  Yeah, we're going to drink about it.
• 2:12
  Okay.
• 2:13
  Announcements?
• 2:14
  PNW.
• 2:15
  Fest?
• 2:16
  Yeah.
• 2:17
  True crime fest northwest.
• 2:18
  Thank you.
• 2:19
  I like that it rhymes.
• 2:22
  That helps me remember it.
• 2:24
  So that's Friday, August 30th, Saturday, the 31st and Sunday, September.
• 2:31
  So 3 whole days?
• 2:32
  You have to be there for three whole days.
• 2:36
  Yeah.
• 2:37
  It's actually kind of half days on Friday and Sunday, but yeah.
• 2:40
  Woo, half day.
• 2:41
  It's like school.
• 2:42
  Yeah.
• 2:43
  Yeah.
• 2:44
  We're going to half day.
• 2:45
  Much funner than school.
• 2:46
  I'm not complaining about being there.
• 2:48
  Because we haven't done a lot of festival.
• 2:51
  We came off a year of like full of festivals and then this year.
• 2:54
  Yeah.
• 2:55
  We hit like everything.
• 2:58
  And then this year, I mean, I guess we kind of had like this other festival that we were
• 3:03
  sort of supposed to go to.
• 3:07
  I was just comparing my wedding to a festival.
• 3:12
  Oh, okay.
• 3:13
  I was like, what?
• 3:14
  Did we go to one and I can't remember what it was.
• 3:17
  No, it just, no, if anything like planning for the wedding and everything was like, I feel
• 3:25
  like it was the same level of work as when we did like, I don't know, I think we did like
• 3:30
  four or five festivals the year before.
• 3:34
  It was the event of the year.
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  Woo.
• 3:38
  It was.
• 3:39
  It was so fun.
• 3:40
  We'll talk about it later.
• 3:41
  Yeah.
• 3:42
  We'll talk about it eventually.
• 3:43
  I'm like, I'm ready to be done with you.
• 3:46
  You're over.
• 3:47
  I'm so over you.
• 3:48
  Now I wish I could go back and spend a little more time there, but it goes by quick.
• 3:55
  Everyone says it and I'm like, okay, we go to, but it does.
• 4:00
  Yeah.
• 4:01
  But come see us at True Crime Fest northwest.
• 4:04
  It's going to be here in Portland.
• 4:07
  There's lots of great stuff going on at it.
• 4:10
  There's a ton of different speakers.
• 4:12
  Yeah, I'm excited and it looks like they're planning to do a drag bingo on Sunday.
• 4:19
  Oh, what?
• 4:20
  So drag bingo.
• 4:23
  What is that?
• 4:24
  I don't know, man, but I'm in you.
• 4:25
  Like drag queen bingo?
• 4:27
  Yeah, I think so.
• 4:28
  No shit.
• 4:29
  Yeah.
• 4:30
  Because I got really excited when you said drag and I was like, that can't be what she
• 4:33
  means.
• 4:34
  And I was like, no, but like, is it though?
• 4:36
  Oh, that's what she means.
• 4:39
  So excited.
• 4:40
  Yeah.
• 4:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have a discount code still.
• 4:45
  We do.
• 4:46
  In the notes, I think.
• 4:47
  Yeah, we'll put it in the notes.
• 4:48
  I think it's HAUNTS10.
• 4:50
  Don't quote me on that.
• 4:51
  It'll be in the notes.
• 4:52
  Find it in the notes.
• 4:53
  Show notes.
• 4:54
  Go to the notes.
• 4:55
  Episode description.
• 4:56
  Yeah.
• 4:57
  Then there's actually a self-defense class.
• 5:01
  It looks like on the Friday night too.
• 5:03
  I'm going to do that so bad.
• 5:05
  All programming is free.
• 5:07
  So for that.
• 5:08
  So that's a really awesome opportunity.
• 5:12
  I really want to take, I think I've said it before.
• 5:14
  I want to take self-defense like regularly because you have to keep up on it.
• 5:18
  Yeah, I heard for sure.
• 5:19
  You like forget what to do.
• 5:21
  Yeah.
• 5:22
  Well, I think now that I'm no longer planning the festival of the year, AKA my wedding, I
• 5:28
  think I probably, I could totally take up Krav Maga, right?
• 5:32
  Like what else am I doing besides working full time this podcast, which is another full
• 5:36
  time job in like feeding and clothing and bathing myself.
• 5:41
  Right.
• 5:42
  I just feel like it's time.
• 5:43
  Yeah.
• 5:44
  Enough excuses.
• 5:45
  I know.
• 5:46
  It'll turn do it.
• 5:47
  Yeah, just work.
• 5:48
  Yeah.
• 5:49
  You just got to work.
• 5:50
  Now, nobody wants to work anymore.
• 5:54
  Any who's all, I think that's all we really have for announcements.
• 5:57
  I just want to make sure we said something about that.
• 6:00
  It's at the time of recording this, just a couple of weeks around the corner.
• 6:04
  So it's real.
• 6:06
  It's coming.
• 6:07
  It's going to happen.
• 6:09
  It's going to come and go so fast.
• 6:11
  And before you know it, we'll be like, where did it go?
• 6:15
  Exactly.
• 6:16
  All right.
• 6:17
  Well, I think we've drugged this out pretty much as long as we can.
• 6:21
  Yeah.
• 6:22
  We should probably get into it.
• 6:24
  Okay.
• 6:25
  All right.
• 6:27
  The Mattson Family Home in the Point Defines Park District of Tacoma was far from
• 6:33
  Meager at a sprawling 6,400 square feet.
• 6:36
  It's a pretty big house.
• 6:38
  That is a huge house.
• 6:39
  It's a real big house.
• 6:40
  Yeah.
• 6:41
  Yeah.
• 6:42
  I don't want to clean that house.
• 6:43
  No.
• 6:44
  No.
• 6:45
  It was located at 4605 North Verde Street having been built in the mid 1920s in what I
• 6:57
  must assume was a pretty well-to-do neighborhood.
• 7:01
  I actually don't need to assume if you live in a community where they are building.
• 7:07
  That's like a manor.
• 7:08
  Yeah.
• 7:09
  That's huge.
• 7:10
  It's not the only one.
• 7:11
  Yeah.
• 7:13
  From the back of the home, their properties, Lawn, led to what sounds like almost like a park
• 7:20
  or like a community space that only Leslie Knope, could dare to dream up.
• 7:25
  Oh, sounds pretty cool.
• 7:28
  I don't get the reference.
• 7:30
  Oh my God.
• 7:31
  I mean, I know it's parks and rec.
• 7:33
  Yeah.
• 7:34
  Because Leslie Knope, is like the just most effervescent public servant and she works in the
• 7:42
  parks department, but she goes on to run for office and she's just all about doing all
• 7:48
  the things for Pawnee.
• 7:51
  Oh, it's adorable.
• 7:52
  So sweet.
• 7:53
  It's adorable.
• 7:54
  She also has a massive crush on Joe Biden.
• 7:57
  It's real weird.
• 7:59
  It's real weird.
• 8:00
  I don't know.
• 8:01
  I mean, did it, did it not?
• 8:02
  He didn't age-
• 8:03
  Sorry, let's keep going.
• 8:04
  Moving a lot.
• 8:05
  Moving a lot.
• 8:06
  Moving a lot.
• 8:07
  And I know we're not supposed to say spirit animal anymore, but if yours is a fictional white lady,
• 8:17
  is that still allowed?
• 8:20
  Just asking for a friend.
• 8:21
  I don't know.
• 8:22
  Someone tell us if you don't like it.
• 8:24
  Yeah.
• 8:25
  I feel it.
• 8:26
  I mean, it's probably fine.
• 8:27
  And I feel like it's fine.
• 8:29
  I think the majority of our audience would be like, why aren't you supposed to say that?
• 8:33
  I think our audience knows exactly why you're not supposed to say spirit animal.
• 8:37
  Okay, maybe half.
• 8:38
  Yeah.
• 8:39
  If our audience wouldn't have to.
• 8:41
  It's half sees maybe.
• 8:43
  Source material described it as a path led down to a steep 300 foot terrace embankment to
• 8:51
  a picnic ground and swimming pool railroad tracks, rust in way, and then the waterfront crowded
• 8:58
  with docks and boat houses.
• 9:01
  So, pretty fancy.
• 9:03
  I'm concerned about the railroad tracks being right in the middle of a park.
• 9:08
  I don't know if it's in the middle of the park.
• 9:10
  I'm not totally clear on that piece of the layout, but I mean, they're at the center of all
• 9:16
  the industry and all the happenings and the goings-ons and such.
• 9:22
  Yeah.
• 9:25
  The patriarch of the family was a well-known man in the local area as a respected physician.
• 9:33
  Daddy's a doctor.
• 9:34
  Dr. Daddy.
• 9:35
  Dr. Daddy.
• 9:36
  Oh.
• 9:37
  [laughs]
• 9:38
  Though he graduated from medical school at the University of Pennsylvania, he had played
• 9:44
  football at the University of Washington for three years in the early 1900s.
• 9:51
  And there are picks.
• 9:53
  So we know that did happen.
• 9:54
  Ooh.
• 9:55
  Like old school football picks.
• 9:57
  Yeah.
• 9:58
  Cute.
• 9:59
  Old-timey football uniforms with leather helmets.
• 10:01
  So they have leather helmets?
• 10:02
  I don't think at least not in the pictures, but they look like they're wearing the woleist,
• 10:09
  scratchiest clothing.
• 10:12
  And I'm like, I wouldn't wear that even if I wasn't sportsing.
• 10:17
  But if you have long johns on under.
• 10:20
  Oh, God.
• 10:21
  I can't.
• 10:22
  I can't.
• 10:24
  This dude is checking boxes like he was preparing for his old-timey Tinder profile though.
• 10:30
  Ooh.
• 10:31
  Yeah.
• 10:32
  He's kind of a catch.
• 10:33
  Did you make one for him?
• 10:34
  Because I want to see it.
• 10:35
  I did.
• 10:36
  Can we do that?
• 10:37
  I think we should mock one up.
• 10:38
  I think that'd be great.
• 10:39
  A tailored if you also have free time.
• 10:41
  Yeah.
• 10:42
  I think that'd be so funny.
• 10:45
  Daddy, doctor.
• 10:46
  Doctor, daddy.
• 10:47
  His Tinder profile.
• 10:50
  Okay.
• 10:51
  Uh, buh buh buh.
• 10:52
  Are there pictures of him holding a fish?
• 10:55
  Oh, my God.
• 10:59
  I don't think so.
• 11:00
  I know.
• 11:01
  I know.
• 11:02
  I mean, honestly, how will he ever find love on Tinder without?
• 11:06
  No one's going to swipe whatever way you swipe.
• 11:08
  Yeah, which, you know, the swiping.
• 11:10
  I literally don't know which way it is.
• 11:13
  I don't know.
• 11:14
  I don't know.
• 11:15
  That's okay.
• 11:16
  That's fine.
• 11:17
  I probably will never need to know.
• 11:18
  Yeah.
• 11:19
  The internet is a dangerous place.
• 11:25
  Their live Christmas tree and outdoor light display was reported to have been recognized
• 11:29
  by the Tacoma Garden Club.
• 11:32
  But I'd wager.
• 11:33
  It would take some serious digging to find any reporting on that topic because I couldn't
• 11:37
  find it.
• 11:38
  Oh, so they weren't on the, like, PNW lights, Christmas lights.
• 11:44
  I know.
• 11:45
  Apple.
• 11:46
  No.
• 11:47
  Dang it.
• 11:48
  Yeah.
• 11:49
  No, they weren't still doing their whole thing with the Christmas tree in the light show when
• 11:54
  that was established in the mid 2000s, I believe.
• 12:02
  But obviously, I haven't made it a habit to simply bring you all the wandering diatribe's
• 12:07
  about idyllic families.
• 12:10
  Come.
• 12:12
  Univis.
• 12:14
  Clearly something not too idyllic is probably about to happen.
• 12:19
  Come.
• 12:20
  You knew this.
• 12:23
  And if that's what you were thinking, you'd be right.
• 12:26
  Because you knew this.
• 12:28
  I don't want to be right.
• 12:30
  No.
• 12:32
  What you couldn't have known is that it would happen just days after Christmas.
• 12:37
  Oh, you're a bitch.
• 12:39
  I know.
• 12:40
  You didn't save this one for Christmas.
• 12:42
  I was simply the worst.
• 12:44
  I mean, it's crazy how many crimes are committed right around Christmas.
• 12:48
  So.
• 12:49
  Yeah.
• 12:50
  No, I was just like, I think I got some other stuff.
• 12:55
  I just, I felt like I needed to talk about this case.
• 12:58
  And I think we'll get to why I felt like I identified with this so readily.
• 13:04
  It's funny that you should mention that though, because I said in my notes, next sentence,
• 13:09
  I might have saved this for that time of year had I come across it at a different time.
• 13:14
  But alas, here we are.
• 13:16
  As we record this at least, it's Christmas in July.
• 13:19
  It is no longer July.
• 13:21
  We intended to record this in July.
• 13:24
  Missed it.
• 13:25
  Overshot it by a few days.
• 13:26
  It's fine.
• 13:27
  Christmas in August.
• 13:28
  Yeah.
• 13:29
  Cheesy.
• 13:30
  Sure.
• 13:31
  Maybe.
• 13:32
  But surely by now, we all know that finding some way to present a bit of levity, if not
• 13:38
  hope, in these cases is what I strive for.
• 13:42
  You're welcome.
• 13:44
  Thank you.
• 13:46
  Please, sir.
• 13:47
  I want some more.
• 13:52
  And so it was that on Sunday, December 27, 1936, at roughly 8.45 pm, that the youngest of
• 14:00
  the three Mattson children, Charles, was enjoying popcorn and root beer in his living
• 14:07
  room with his brother, William Jr. Billy, age 16, his sister, Muriel, age 14, and her friend
• 14:18
  from Seattle, Virginia Chatsfield, age 15.
• 14:22
  Oh, big city.
• 14:24
  I know.
• 14:25
  Virginia Chatsfield.
• 14:26
  Chatsfield.
• 14:27
  Chatsfield.
• 14:28
  I'm sorry, Chatsfield.
• 14:31
  That's a name.
• 14:32
  Yeah.
• 14:33
  I can't think of what I want to put the name.
• 14:36
  Like a news reporter.
• 14:37
  Yeah.
• 14:38
  Yeah.
• 14:39
  Chatsfield.
• 14:40
  She could be a podcaster.
• 14:41
  She really could be.
• 14:44
  Oh, wait.
• 14:45
  It's 1936.
• 14:47
  Oh, well.
• 14:51
  As they did so, a masked man armed with a handgun entered their living room.
• 14:57
  I guess he decided the holidays were officially over.
• 15:02
  After thoroughly terrorizing the children, that same man would simply pick Charles up and
• 15:08
  vanish into the night.
• 15:10
  What?
• 15:13
  But not before leaving a ransom note stating his $28,000 demand.
• 15:18
  She's an odd number, but whatever.
• 15:21
  Right.
• 15:22
  You can like round up to 30 or 25.
• 15:24
  Yeah.
• 15:25
  I don't like it.
• 15:26
  No.
• 15:27
  It's comfortable with, but that's fine.
• 15:30
  It's, you know, it's his demand.
• 15:31
  Maybe 20 eighths is lucky number.
• 15:33
  I, you know, maybe who knows?
• 15:35
  I don't think it is.
• 15:36
  It's lucky number.
• 15:37
  But the virus of nothing more than his youngest child, safe return, Dr. William W. Mattson,
• 15:48
  would make every attempt to pay that ransom, but to no avail.
• 15:54
  I'll save you the suspense from this moment forward.
• 15:58
  This is the oldest unsolved kidnapping case in Tacoma's history.
• 16:03
  Holy shit, it's unsolved.
• 16:05
  Yep.
• 16:06
  Yikes.
• 16:11
  On the surface, surely this seems like another case of a kid from a wealthy family gone missing
• 16:16
  and you're not wrong.
• 16:19
  It takes me back to the Weyerhaeuser case episodes, though there's a notable difference.
• 16:25
  While I didn't examine side by side the account statements of the two households, the Mattson
• 16:31
  were surely no match compared to the monetary wealth of the Weyerhaeuser's.
• 16:38
  The Weyerhaeusers were like titans of industry.
• 16:43
  This is a wealthy family, but we're talking about, you know, a single,
• 16:49
  generation of wealth, essentially.
• 16:52
  I think it should go without saying, but I'll say it out loud.
• 16:57
  Every missing person, particularly a child, deserves to be found, regardless of their
• 17:04
  race, religion, and of course, societal status or their financial means.
• 17:10
  In some instances, even if you did have bottomless pockets, even that can't bring a loved one
• 17:18
  back, but it sure doesn't hurt.
• 17:27
  The night the Charles was kidnapped or kidnaped, as was often reported in the papers at this
• 17:34
  time.
• 17:35
  Oh, miss like they misspell it.
• 17:36
  They misspell it.
• 17:37
  It's kidnapped.
• 17:38
  Wow.
• 17:39
  How did I do?
• 17:40
  I hate hers.
• 17:41
  Who is the editor?
• 17:42
  Honestly, I think that was just the comments felling back that I think we looked at this when
• 17:46
  we did cover the Weyerhaeuser case because it came up and it was whole board.
• 17:52
  Oh, interesting.
• 17:53
  Yeah.
• 17:54
  Very strange.
• 17:55
  I don't know.
• 17:56
  I don't know.
• 17:57
  I just fell back then.
• 17:58
  Yeah, it's just old timey.
• 17:59
  Just old timey stuff.
• 18:00
  I don't know, like, go to a dictionary to check the spelling too.
• 18:02
  Right?
• 18:03
  Like, you couldn't just Google it or like, it's true.
• 18:05
  Obviously, there was an auto correct.
• 18:07
  They did not have a Google machine.
• 18:09
  No.
• 18:10
  Honestly, one of these days, I'm going to spiral down that etymological rabbit hole,
• 18:15
  with eye digress.
• 18:16
  You said a big word.
• 18:18
  Yep.
• 18:19
  It's a word word.
• 18:20
  Word of the day.
• 18:21
  Sure.
• 18:22
  That night, the Mattson children had been alone in the family home.
• 18:29
  Dr. Mattson and his wife, Hazel, had been attending a social function.
• 18:35
  While they waited, the children could hear someone knocking quite insistently on the
• 18:40
  French doors at the back of their home that led out to their terrace.
• 18:46
  So this person came in, like, into their backyard and came to the rear entrance of the home.
• 18:54
  It was Charles that volunteered to investigate further.
• 18:59
  When he returned at a running pace, he told the others that he had spotted a man wearing
• 19:04
  a mask.
• 19:06
  What was he doing out in their courtyard at this hour, you ask?
• 19:10
  Well, according to the eyewitness accounts that night, he'd been pounding on their door,
• 19:16
  which is already just a bit too much.
• 19:19
  But he'd also demanded entry to the home.
• 19:23
  That's going to be a no for me, dog.
• 19:25
  Right?
• 19:26
  That's what Charles said.
• 19:27
  Good.
• 19:28
  Yeah, he was like, oh, thanks, though.
• 19:31
  Lastly, he'd been described as muttering incoherently, which is literally never how I
• 19:38
  want to describe anyone within close proximity to my home.
• 19:44
  Even if Charles had been born at night, it wasn't last night.
• 19:49
  So clearly, he refused to allow the man entry.
• 19:53
  But it turned out that he didn't exactly need permission, as he broke the glass panes
• 19:57
  of the door with his gun, simply reaching inside to turn the latch himself.
• 20:04
  And he'd begs the question, like, if that was such an easy option, why are you bothering,
• 20:10
  giving the inhabitants of the home a heads up by knocking before making entry?
• 20:16
  Right.
• 20:17
  Like, well, you said he, like, terrorized them for a while, so maybe that was just part of his.
• 20:21
  Well, that's once he was inside the home.
• 20:23
  Yeah, but maybe that was like part of it.
• 20:25
  I can't just wanted to like scare them.
• 20:27
  I don't know.
• 20:28
  Honestly, I was reading this going like, does anybody else think this sounds like kind
• 20:33
  of some Florida man shit?
• 20:34
  Like, what's happening?
• 20:36
  I wish, because that would mean he'd probably get caught.
• 20:40
  Yeah.
• 20:42
  From that point on, a nightmarish scenario unfolded as the intruder strode into the home, trailing
• 20:50
  the frightened little Charles Mattson.
• 20:53
  Once he had made his entrance into the living room, he shouted, "Don't you kids try anything?
• 20:58
  Because I have a bulletproof vest on as he demanded money."
• 21:03
  Which is like, okay, but they don't have guns.
• 21:06
  Because they're packin'.
• 21:07
  Yeah.
• 21:09
  The aggressive intruder searched Billy's pockets.
• 21:12
  That's the older brother.
• 21:13
  Good luck, bro.
• 21:15
  He's a 1930s teenager.
• 21:17
  If you expected him to have more than a nickel, then I guess you're even dumber than I assume
• 21:21
  you look.
• 21:22
  Which isn't saying much.
• 21:24
  I assume you look very stupid.
• 21:27
  What kind of mask was he wearing, do you know?
• 21:30
  I'm not sure.
• 21:32
  I'm assuming it was some sort of like, probably similar to what you are picturing.
• 21:38
  I was picturing a Richard Nixon mask.
• 21:41
  So, perhaps not that then.
• 21:44
  I don't know why.
• 21:45
  Like a ski mask or like a, do they have those back then?
• 21:51
  Yeah.
• 21:52
  I mean, they might have been made of a different material, but yeah, I mean, they certainly
• 21:56
  had things like that back then.
• 22:00
  Or they could fashion them.
• 22:02
  Yeah.
• 22:03
  I mean, it was very common for them to just take some other, you know, garment or remnant
• 22:10
  of fabric into my face.
• 22:11
  It's got some holes in it.
• 22:15
  Like your ghost for Halloween.
• 22:16
  Oh, don't ruin that.
• 22:20
  I know.
• 22:21
  I'm sorry.
• 22:22
  The intruder demanded money and then searched Billy's pockets, finding nothing because he's
• 22:28
  a literal child.
• 22:30
  He muttered, "A home such as this should be good for some money."
• 22:34
  "Woke up."
• 22:35
  And Billy replied that they did not keep money in the house.
• 22:40
  It was then that the intruder snatched little Charlie, stating, "I want you to come with
• 22:46
  me.
• 22:47
  You're your father's favorite, so you're worth more money."
• 22:51
  How does he know that?
• 22:55
  Interesting question.
• 22:57
  Not a lot of interesting answers in that there are no answers to that question.
• 23:03
  Making shit up.
• 23:05
  I mean, maybe.
• 23:06
  I mean, maybe he'd been casing the house family, whatever.
• 23:10
  Who knows?
• 23:11
  We see the youngest.
• 23:12
  Charlie was the youngest.
• 23:14
  Some people like the youngest the best.
• 23:17
  Yeah, the youngest is usually the favorite.
• 23:19
  I mean, I find them to be the most annoying, but I might be biased.
• 23:23
  I agree.
• 23:24
  The oldest.
• 23:26
  Any who?
• 23:28
  We're both older sisters of a younger brother.
• 23:33
  I mean, they get less annoying as they get older.
• 23:35
  They do.
• 23:36
  That is true.
• 23:37
  That is true.
• 23:38
  For my brother, anyway.
• 23:39
  No, I'm just kidding.
• 23:40
  Yeah.
• 23:41
  But I just feel like that's such a gross thing to say, period.
• 23:46
  Like, your, his favorite, your worth more money, but also dude, like, his siblings are standing
• 23:52
  right there.
• 23:53
  Yeah.
• 23:54
  Like awkward.
• 23:56
  But then, I guess that was the least of their problems at this point.
• 24:00
  Right.
• 24:01
  Like, I'm going to look past that.
• 24:04
  Trying to see the big picture about like my younger brother is literally being kidnapped
• 24:10
  before my eyes.
• 24:12
  I cannot imagine.
• 24:15
  Yeah.
• 24:16
  No, thank you.
• 24:19
  He told the children not to call the police or he'd come back and shoot them.
• 24:26
  Seems like pretty standard fare for a bad guy.
• 24:29
  And this dude was obviously a bad guy.
• 24:31
  I mean, yeah, the man, he, yeah, nice guy.
• 24:34
  It was the whole thing.
• 24:35
  Yeah.
• 24:36
  A lot of kids equals bad guy.
• 24:38
  Yeah.
• 24:39
  Voted YTA, 10 out of 10 times by the Reddit community, for sure.
• 24:44
  I know what that means.
• 24:45
  Yeah.
• 24:46
  I get the reference.
• 24:47
  Yeah.
• 24:48
  I've been listening to a lot of AITA stories recently and they've tried it our brain space.
• 24:56
  Only because Caitlyn has talked about it.
• 24:59
  I haven't like gone looking.
• 25:01
  Should we tell like my mom what it means?
• 25:03
  I don't think she knows.
• 25:04
  Oh, yeah.
• 25:05
  What's it mean?
• 25:07
  So she knows exactly what it means, but she's like, you know, I want to do you know.
• 25:13
  - Yeah. - Yes, yeah.
• 25:15
  - You, you, you challenge.
• 25:17
  - YTA is you're the asshole.
• 25:20
  There's, I think, let's see, I'm thinking of a couple of other ones
• 25:26
  that I've heard thrown around.
• 25:27
  E-S-H, everyone sucks here.
• 25:32
  - Oh, I've never heard that one. - So I've heard that one?
• 25:33
  - Yeah, it's a fun one.
• 25:34
  And then NTA is not the asshole.
• 25:39
  Those are kind of the main ones.
• 25:40
  Those are the ones you need.
• 25:42
  - You need to know. - Like, those are your kind of core.
• 25:45
  - Yeah. - There you go, Mom.
• 25:46
  - Yeah. - Welcome.
• 25:48
  - Actually, Reddit would probably be like split
• 25:50
  in a surprising turn, because Reddit is just wild.
• 25:54
  But whatever. - I never, it's, it's, I don't like it.
• 25:57
  - People have so many opinions.
• 25:59
  - They do. - Yeah.
• 26:01
  - I only like to go find a spooky thing
• 26:03
  and then like read the comments.
• 26:04
  - Yeah, she's like, "Aaaah!"
• 26:05
  - I'm gonna hurry out.
• 26:06
  - It's very specific what I look for on Reddit.
• 26:09
  (laughing)
• 26:11
  As the man fled, the children watched him flee
• 26:14
  across the backyard and down the steep embankment
• 26:17
  toward commencement bay.
• 26:19
  No small feat with a reportedly 70 pound child.
• 26:24
  A terrified kid in tow.
• 26:26
  - I was gonna say how, like, how is he holding this kid?
• 26:30
  - I don't like throw him over his shoulder.
• 26:33
  - Oh, God. - Like, Jesus.
• 26:35
  First of all, I'm not running until a cardiologist
• 26:39
  or a gangster is holding a gun to my head.
• 26:42
  (laughing)
• 26:44
  And even then, it's really gonna depend on how I feel.
• 26:48
  Also, not carrying a small, potentially screaming human
• 26:55
  while I do so.
• 26:56
  The running is hard enough.
• 26:57
  - I wonder if he said something though
• 27:00
  about like, "Hey, don't struggle," 'cause.
• 27:03
  - How? - Yeah.
• 27:04
  - Yeah. - If he told me not to like call a cop,
• 27:07
  or he'd shoot them, I wonder what he said to the kid.
• 27:09
  - Yeah, the littlest.
• 27:11
  - Either way though.
• 27:13
  Like, of course, he's gonna be hysterically crying.
• 27:16
  I don't know, I'm just saying,
• 27:18
  that's a special kind of hell to each their own, I suppose.
• 27:21
  He's got his eyes on the prize, $28,000.
• 27:25
  I'm thinking about now and I'm like, okay.
• 27:30
  Obviously inflation, but that wouldn't even pay off
• 27:32
  my student loan.
• 27:33
  So like, am I really going down this road?
• 27:36
  - No, well, he probably didn't have student loans.
• 27:38
  Doesn't seem like the student type.
• 27:42
  - Yeah.
• 27:43
  - That's fair.
• 27:44
  William phoned the police.
• 27:47
  At first, it was unclear whether that was junior or senior,
• 27:51
  but additional research revealed that it was reportedly
• 27:54
  billy, so the brother that made the call.
• 27:57
  - So he didn't listen, good.
• 27:59
  - Yeah.
• 28:00
  - No, he was like, I do not follow instructions.
• 28:04
  - Good. - Yeah, I told him.
• 28:05
  - Age boy for once.
• 28:06
  - Yeah, I know, right?
• 28:07
  (laughing)
• 28:08
  - Teenage rebellion for the win.
• 28:10
  - Yeah.
• 28:11
  - For the W-1.
• 28:12
  - Based on the various descriptions gathered
• 28:17
  from the three young traumatized witnesses,
• 28:19
  the following picture emerged of the intruder.
• 28:22
  He was a man clad in a blue zipper jacket
• 28:27
  and a light colored checkered cap.
• 28:30
  Some sources said white while another said tan.
• 28:34
  - With hairy hands.
• 28:36
  - hairy hands?
• 28:38
  - Yeah.
• 28:38
  - They had zippers back then?
• 28:40
  - Yeah.
• 28:41
  Cassie has really, like, her mind is fully blown.
• 28:45
  (laughing)
• 28:46
  - That is not where I saw it.
• 28:47
  - She was going through my head at one time.
• 28:50
  (laughing)
• 28:51
  - I just didn't think that would be the thing
• 28:53
  that you would focus on.
• 28:54
  You're like zippers and hairy hands.
• 28:57
  - I was stuck on the zippers
• 28:58
  and then you had said hairy hands and that through me,
• 29:01
  but I was like still on the zippers.
• 29:03
  Did you, like, I feel like maybe I put those two,
• 29:07
  like, descriptors too close together
• 29:08
  'cause I feel like as I'm writing it
• 29:10
  and then as I'm reading it again,
• 29:12
  I'm just picturing his hairy hand,
• 29:15
  getting like caught in the zipper.
• 29:17
  Is that just me?
• 29:18
  - Ah, am I the weirdo?
• 29:21
  - Probably.
• 29:22
  - We should start a new, like, am I the asshole,
• 29:24
  but am I the weirdo?
• 29:25
  - Am I the weirdo?
• 29:27
  - Is that a reddit?
• 29:28
  - Yeah, should we start it?
• 29:28
  - I don't think so.
• 29:29
  Am I the weirdo?
• 29:30
  - I like it.
• 29:31
  - I like it.
• 29:32
  - I like it.
• 29:33
  - It's hours now.
• 29:34
  - It's probably already.
• 29:35
  - I'm writing this down.
• 29:36
  - I feel like someone has come up with it.
• 29:38
  - I don't think so.
• 29:39
  I don't think anybody's ever, I've never seen that.
• 29:43
  I don't know.
• 29:46
  - Then I will check in it with jeez.
• 29:48
  - Yeah, you are.
• 29:50
  - Okay, but first they had zippers back then.
• 29:53
  - Yeah.
• 29:53
  - 1936.
• 29:55
  - Why do I feel like we've glued the--
• 29:57
  - 14 before, like, when zippers has--
• 30:00
  - Do I need to look it up?
• 30:01
  - Yeah, just look it up, sorry.
• 30:03
  - I just find, my brain won't go anywhere else.
• 30:05
  - Until I know.
• 30:08
  - No, it's fine.
• 30:09
  We're only three pages in to nine.
• 30:11
  (laughing)
• 30:12
  It's fine.
• 30:13
  The zipper was invented technically in 1917,
• 30:19
  but it wasn't until 1923 that the name was first used.
• 30:24
  An American company called BF Goodrich Company
• 30:30
  used Sundback's design on boots and coined the term zipper.
• 30:35
  - Okay.
• 30:36
  - Uh-oh.
• 30:38
  Goodrich came up with a name based on the noise
• 30:40
  a zipper makes when you use it.
• 30:43
  - It's the onomatopoeia.
• 30:45
  - onomatopoeia, yeah.
• 30:47
  - Okay.
• 30:49
  This is so weird to me.
• 30:50
  I feel like this is me and other things
• 30:51
  that's gonna throw you off.
• 30:52
  Maybe not, maybe I'm the weirdo.
• 30:54
  Am I the weirdo?
• 30:59
  The white rag he had dawned over his face,
• 31:02
  slipped down at some point during their encounter,
• 31:05
  revealing a full beard, high cheekbones,
• 31:09
  a dimpled chin and a dark complexion.
• 31:11
  Sworthy was the word used repeatedly in FBI statements
• 31:16
  and the man spoke with an accent later described
• 31:19
  as Southern European.
• 31:22
  So I'm guessing these kids were far more polite
• 31:25
  than many others of their time.
• 31:28
  That or they simply couldn't quite place the man is like,
• 31:32
  clearly he was Italian, clearly Spanish or Greek,
• 31:36
  neatly they weren't sure what his ethnicity was.
• 31:39
  - I'm not kind of hard sometimes.
• 31:41
  - It is and I feel like it's incredibly,
• 31:43
  if they didn't actually specifically identify
• 31:49
  an ethnicity, I feel like that was like maybe
• 31:56
  a very, well certainly a very good thing
• 31:58
  because obviously this is a point in history when it's like,
• 32:02
  oh we hate the eye, you know what I mean?
• 32:04
  Like anybody that they identify as being a threat
• 32:07
  then that whole community comes under fire.
• 32:10
  So I'm thinking like, I don't know
• 32:14
  that these kids were aware of that or like maybe
• 32:17
  it was just out of politeness that they like they don't know
• 32:20
  so they're not, you know, I have no idea,
• 32:22
  but I don't know, maybe they just didn't want to send
• 32:24
  the public at large after an entire unsuspecting
• 32:28
  ethnic community which is maybe something
• 32:31
  that people could learn from still today.
• 32:34
  - Yeah.
• 32:35
  - Perhaps but probably won't sometimes in some situations
• 32:40
  which will remain nameless.
• 32:42
  - Okay.
• 32:45
  - I'm thrown off by how they knew he had a dimpled chin
• 32:48
  if he had a whole beard.
• 32:50
  - Oh, 'cause I think even with like facial,
• 32:52
  like if he had a stubble, like if he had like the butt chin,
• 32:56
  you know, I was thinking like a full beard,
• 32:59
  he can't say that. - Well maybe he does,
• 33:00
  but maybe it was just stubble.
• 33:02
  I don't know, like that's still a full beard
• 33:04
  'cause beard if like describes like where?
• 33:06
  - Full beard.
• 33:07
  - Yeah, no, I think they were just describing
• 33:10
  the location of the facial.
• 33:12
  - It wasn't like a goat.
• 33:14
  - Yeah.
• 33:15
  - That's a goat's ear for short.
• 33:16
  (laughing)
• 33:17
  - You shouldn't, no, you need to say goat's ear
• 33:20
  because goat means something else.
• 33:22
  - No, yes. - Not if you're clearly referencing beards.
• 33:27
  - I'm just saying people get confused
• 33:29
  and some things mean other things and maybe, you know.
• 33:32
  - Everyone knows what I mean.
• 33:33
  - Just saying that when we're talking about
• 33:37
  the greatest one of all time.
• 33:38
  - Yeah, no, that's not what I'm talking about
• 33:39
  'cause he's clearly not.
• 33:41
  - No. - If he can't even grow
• 33:42
  a beard, it covers dimpled chin.
• 33:45
  (laughing)
• 33:46
  - Oh man.
• 33:47
  Okay, also like, I know I'm recently married,
• 33:51
  but does this dude sound vaguely hot?
• 33:54
  Kind of a little.
• 33:56
  I'm gonna be honest, I think it's fine.
• 33:59
  Okay, we can be honest, right?
• 34:01
  'Cause this guy, hot or not, at the time,
• 34:04
  is super dead by now, but I'm gonna be honest.
• 34:07
  It kind of sounds like the FBI had a crush on them too.
• 34:10
  Which is like, ew, FBI, be better.
• 34:13
  I'm a simple, I'm a person, okay.
• 34:16
  You're an entire organization.
• 34:18
  Do better.
• 34:19
  - Yeah. - Do better.
• 34:20
  We all know the beard, the weakness for beards, but.
• 34:25
  - Yeah, I don't really, that's not really a thing for me.
• 34:27
  - It was more that swarthy.
• 34:29
  - I don't know, something about that.
• 34:31
  Like if you say swarthy, I'm like, do you mean sexy?
• 34:35
  I wonder if it maybe had more of a negative connotation about that.
• 34:39
  - I think it did. - Yeah, I think it did.
• 34:41
  'Cause now we've just turned everything bad boy to sexy.
• 34:43
  - Yeah, I'm like, oh my god, it's so hot.
• 34:46
  - Yeah.
• 34:47
  (laughing)
• 34:49
  - We've got something we're really excited to share with you guys.
• 34:53
  Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties.
• 34:55
  - Do you love true crime and travel?
• 35:01
  Having traveled the world so low the last couple of years
• 35:04
  and being obsessed with true crime?
• 35:07
  I found myself researching others who took the same vacations,
• 35:10
  but never made it home.
• 35:12
  The Last Trip is a true crime podcast covering missing
• 35:15
  and murdered people that were living their best lives on vacation.
• 35:19
  I'm your host, Jamie Beebe.
• 35:21
  And each week I'll bring you on the last trip,
• 35:24
  taking a deep dive into vacation culture and travel spots,
• 35:27
  tips on staying alive while traveling,
• 35:29
  and ultimately recreating someone's last days and paradise.
• 35:33
  What led to their last trip?
• 35:35
  What are the hard facts?
• 35:36
  What is the final outcome?
• 35:38
  And could you be next?
• 35:40
  David Smedin was a 24-year-old college student from Utah,
• 35:43
  attending Mandarin classes in Beijing
• 35:46
  when he mysteriously disappeared
• 35:47
  while hiking Tiger Leaping Gorge.
• 35:50
  Chinese authorities said he drowned in the gorge
• 35:52
  and US authorities agreed,
• 35:54
  although his body was never found
• 35:56
  and his parents didn't believe that.
• 35:58
  Seven years later, out of the blue,
• 36:00
  they got a phone call from a former US official
• 36:03
  who had evidence David is still alive.
• 36:06
  This case sounds like a Hollywood movie,
• 36:08
  but evidence doesn't lie.
• 36:10
  So where is David Smedin?
• 36:12
  Famous rugby player and celebrity ex-factor contestant,
• 36:16
  Levi Davis, went missing in Barcelona last year
• 36:19
  while on a backpacking trip through Europe.
• 36:21
  Just days before he vanished,
• 36:23
  he posted a 15-minute video to his Instagram account
• 36:26
  saying his life was in danger and people were after him.
• 36:30
  After he disappeared, several theories emerged,
• 36:33
  but what really happened to Levi Davis?
• 36:35
  Join me, Jamie Beebe,
• 36:37
  co-host of the popular True Crime series, Strictly Stalking,
• 36:40
  as I embark on a brand new adventure
• 36:42
  combining True Crime and Travel.
• 36:44
  Listen to The Last Trip wherever you get your podcast.
• 36:48
  Check them out, creepy people.
• 36:52
  You can find their info in our show notes.
• 36:54
  Any hosel back to the story.
• 36:59
  Within minutes, the police were at the Mattson Family Home,
• 37:03
  followed by Dr. Mattson and his wife Ruth
• 37:05
  returning from their social function.
• 37:08
  Thankfully, detectives were able
• 37:10
  to collect a good description from the children
• 37:12
  who had seen the kidnappers mask slip.
• 37:15
  The FBI then generated a drawing of the kidnapper
• 37:19
  that would be distributed far and wide on posters
• 37:23
  in newspapers, as well as the law enforcement bulletin
• 37:27
  produced by, say, magency of the FBI.
• 37:31
  They were like, we're so good, we make all the stress.
• 37:34
  (laughs)
• 37:36
  (sighs)
• 37:37
  - They had the FBI back then?
• 37:38
  - Yeah.
• 37:39
  - I'm like, yeah, I'm already talking about that.
• 37:44
  (laughs)
• 37:45
  - Like, I already talked about how they were just good.
• 37:48
  - God, God, like you don't even listen to me.
• 37:51
  Anyways, try not to.
• 37:53
  (laughs)
• 37:55
  - Thank you.
• 37:56
  - The Tacoma Police Department worked quickly,
• 38:00
  searching that nearby area for Charles,
• 38:03
  as well as his assailant.
• 38:05
  They believed the man to be roughly middle aged
• 38:08
  in his mid-30s to early 40s,
• 38:10
  standing about five-seven,
• 38:13
  weighing roughly 145 pounds.
• 38:15
  The man, if quickly discovered,
• 38:18
  would presumably still be accompanied
• 38:21
  by his victim standing at just four-six.
• 38:24
  - No.
• 38:25
  - Barely, barely.
• 38:27
  Oh, barely dollar that in this kid.
• 38:29
  (laughs)
• 38:31
  So basically within a margin of error compared to my own height,
• 38:34
  I say, in my notes.
• 38:37
  We're different, but James is.
• 38:39
  - Little Charles had been seen wearing a gray sweater,
• 38:44
  blue knicker bockers and house slippers.
• 38:47
  And you guys, if you're not totally sure
• 38:49
  what knicker bockers are,
• 38:50
  they're really a sight to behold.
• 38:52
  - No.
• 38:53
  - Wikipedia says they're a form of baggy need breaches,
• 38:57
  particularly popular in the early 20th century United States.
• 39:02
  But honestly, if it weren't for the fact that
• 39:04
  most of the ones that I saw looked like they were made
• 39:06
  out of straight burlap sacks,
• 39:08
  I'd have to swear they were something smuggled off the set
• 39:13
  of a production of Aladdin.
• 39:14
  (laughs)
• 39:17
  All of the pictures, you're like,
• 39:18
  why would you make Aladdin pants out of like wool?
• 39:23
  Like something scratchier than wool.
• 39:26
  What scratchier than wool?
• 39:27
  Like burlap sacks.
• 39:28
  - Yeah.
• 39:29
  - They look like they're, oh my God.
• 39:31
  It's so cute and old-timey, but they look so uncomfortable.
• 39:36
  - Yeah.
• 39:37
  - So hot, so itchy.
• 39:39
  - You're very focused on the clothes in this episode.
• 39:41
  - I mean, I just was like, I don't know,
• 39:44
  that I fully understand what knicker bockers are.
• 39:47
  I understand they're like pants, but then I was like,
• 39:50
  all right, we gotta look further into this,
• 39:52
  'cause obviously that's gonna be the weird thing
• 39:54
  that Cassie and I focus on.
• 39:55
  (laughs)
• 39:57
  - We were talking about the football clothes being scratchy.
• 40:00
  - Everything was so fucking scratchy.
• 40:02
  - But now I get like why they wore long johns
• 40:05
  under everything because they--
• 40:07
  - Now I get why everybody looked fucking miserable
• 40:09
  in every picture they ever took.
• 40:11
  They were hot and itchy.
• 40:14
  - Entire, 'cause they're wearing like 50 pounds of clothing.
• 40:19
  Police were quickly able to piece together
• 40:22
  that the kidnappers most likely escape route
• 40:24
  was getaway car on Rustin Avenue,
• 40:27
  which also suggested he may have had an accomplice.
• 40:31
  - Oh.
• 40:32
  - And though they were certainly near enough
• 40:35
  to a body of water that might have otherwise
• 40:37
  aided in the kidnappers escape,
• 40:39
  it was unlikely that he had utilized a boat.
• 40:43
  As it turns out that on that particular Sunday night,
• 40:46
  it had been one of the lowest tides to occur
• 40:49
  all of that year.
• 40:50
  - Did he use an inner tube?
• 40:55
  (laughs)
• 40:57
  (laughs)
• 40:58
  - I don't think he would have been able to get away
• 41:00
  quickly in an inner tube.
• 41:01
  Have we not learned that?
• 41:02
  - He didn't talk to a DB-tuber.
• 41:04
  He didn't rig a pulley system.
• 41:06
  - Oh my God.
• 41:07
  - I think, yeah, no.
• 41:09
  (laughs)
• 41:11
  - I had to.
• 41:13
  Of course, the search would not prove fruitful in any case,
• 41:17
  but that didn't mean they had nothing to go on.
• 41:20
  The note recovered by detectives written by the kidnapper
• 41:23
  that had been left in the home proved interesting,
• 41:26
  if not necessarily particularly helpful to their case.
• 41:31
  It appeared to have been written on a child's toy typewriter,
• 41:35
  which I had no fucking idea existed,
• 41:38
  but it makes sense, given the time, listen, do me a favor.
• 41:42
  If anyone has one of these little curiosities
• 41:44
  just sitting around collecting dust, let me know.
• 41:48
  I will send you a prepaid shipping label 'cause I won't sit.
• 41:52
  - Who uses typewriters anyway?
• 41:54
  - No one does.
• 41:55
  It's a kid's typewriter, though.
• 41:56
  - Taylor Swift lyric.
• 41:57
  (screams)
• 41:59
  That is so cute.
• 42:00
  - I like you used it for the worst thing ever.
• 42:03
  - Yeah, kidnap a kid.
• 42:05
  - What a dick.
• 42:07
  - Yeah, I mean, he is garbage, but toy typewriter adorable.
• 42:12
  And I want one.
• 42:14
  I want one.
• 42:15
  - It would be perfect for your size.
• 42:17
  - It really would.
• 42:19
  The note had been typed up in a reportedly odd color ink,
• 42:22
  not sure what color, but since it was probably dictated
• 42:25
  from a kid's typewriter, I feel like that probably checks out.
• 42:29
  At a glance, it seemed a little wandering and disjointed,
• 42:32
  but in truth, the in-depth analysis of the letter
• 42:36
  revealed that it was fairly well written.
• 42:39
  And to the point, like most of my AP comp assignments,
• 42:43
  clearly I have since diverged ever so slightly
• 42:47
  from Ms. Cole's typical coursework.
• 42:50
  - I was gonna say, that makes one of us.
• 42:51
  - Yeah.
• 42:52
  - I don't think mine were coherent at all.
• 42:54
  - Yeah.
• 42:55
  - I'm not being given college credit
• 42:57
  as a motivating factor for this podcast,
• 43:00
  but I am still driven by the one to five scale rating system.
• 43:05
  - Five stars, people.
• 43:06
  Five stars.
• 43:07
  - We're in a son apple spot-a-by,
• 43:10
  or anywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 43:12
  - Exactly.
• 43:13
  - I was like, how do I find myself here?
• 43:16
  I was like the most bizarre of tangents, but here we are.
• 43:21
  The demands of the kidnapper or neighbor.
• 43:25
  - I don't like it.
• 43:26
  I really hate it when they say kidnapper.
• 43:28
  - Stop it.
• 43:29
  - We're stated clearly in the note,
• 43:33
  the price is $28,000.
• 43:37
  $10,000 in fives and tens.
• 43:40
  $18,000 in fifties and hundreds.
• 43:44
  Old bills, please,
• 43:46
  D.
• 43:48
  That's how it's spelled.
• 43:49
  - Please.
• 43:50
  - Please D.
• 43:51
  P-L-E-A-S-D.
• 43:53
  Could be a typo?
• 43:55
  - I was wondering if he had-
• 43:57
  - The typewriter made a bunch of typos
• 44:00
  and had to keep ripping it out and restarting.
• 44:02
  - Yeah, he's like nah,
• 44:03
  ain't nobody got time for that.
• 44:05
  Old bills, please, no new ones.
• 44:08
  Put ad in Seattle Times, personal column,
• 44:12
  read,
• 44:13
  mabel.
• 44:14
  What's your new address, Tim?
• 44:18
  Put this ad times no other paper.
• 44:22
  If no answer from you within week,
• 44:24
  price goes up,
• 44:26
  Goes up,
• 44:28
  Gos up,
• 44:29
  g-o-s,
• 44:30
  Gos up,
• 44:31
  double,
• 44:33
  and double
• 44:35
  that each week after.
• 44:37
  Don't fail.
• 44:40
  And I won't.
• 44:41
  The boy is safe.
• 44:44
  Tim.
• 44:45
  - So his name is Tim.
• 44:47
  - Allegedly.
• 44:48
  - He's brought it twice.
• 44:50
  - He's, yeah.
• 44:52
  I mean,
• 44:53
  I don't know how likely it is that his real name is Tim,
• 44:56
  but it's weird.
• 44:58
  - Yeah.
• 44:59
  It's riddled with spelling and grammatical errors,
• 45:01
  whereas my writing only contains careless typos.
• 45:06
  So you can see why it'd be perturbed.
• 45:08
  - I thought you said it was coherent.
• 45:11
  I feel like you're relying on those.
• 45:12
  - I mean, kind of,
• 45:12
  like the point of it was there,
• 45:14
  but it's really hard to read
• 45:16
  without getting distracted by the grammatical
• 45:19
  and spelling errors.
• 45:20
  - Yeah.
• 45:21
  - Yeah.
• 45:22
  - That's upsetting, you know,
• 45:23
  aside from the whole thing of the life of a child
• 45:26
  hanging in the balance.
• 45:27
  Priorities may be spelled correctly,
• 45:32
  and people will take your ransom note seriously.
• 45:36
  But honestly, they took it seriously regardless.
• 45:39
  - Yeah.
• 45:40
  - Whoa.
• 45:41
  A few things to keep in mind regarding this case
• 45:44
  before we make our way to the conclusion.
• 45:47
  The ransom note appeared to not only be old,
• 45:51
  but dirty and lacking in specifics,
• 45:55
  leading investigators to believe
• 45:57
  it may have been drafted to use
• 45:59
  in a future kidnapping of convenience.
• 46:02
  - Oh, so you didn't type it up there.
• 46:04
  - Kidnappings were real popular.
• 46:07
  - I was thinking he typed up that thing there,
• 46:09
  like on their toy typewriter.
• 46:11
  - Oh, like why would you,
• 46:13
  I think he used his own kids typewriter.
• 46:16
  - Oh God.
• 46:18
  - Yeah.
• 46:19
  Though there was a theory that the kidnapper
• 46:22
  may have originally intended to abduct John Franklin,
• 46:27
  the young son of George G Franklin,
• 46:30
  Jr., and wife Margaret,
• 46:33
  who had been the current residents
• 46:35
  of Hadaway Hall at the time,
• 46:37
  which happened to be the former residents
• 46:41
  of John Philip Weyerhaeuser Senior.
• 46:46
  - No shit.
• 46:48
  - Yeah.
• 46:49
  - What?
• 46:50
  - In fact, there were multiple break-in attempts
• 46:54
  by a man matching the kidnappers description
• 46:58
  that lent credence to this theory.
• 47:01
  One of the two encounters also bore a striking resemblance
• 47:07
  to the Lindbergh baby case,
• 47:10
  as a latter had been used in an effort
• 47:13
  to enter the young child's bedroom.
• 47:17
  In the second, the intruder appeared in a banner,
• 47:21
  far more bold, firing a weapon as they fled.
• 47:25
  - Wow.
• 47:26
  - Both incidents were kept secret from the public,
• 47:30
  and the Franklin family left for an unscheduled sojourn
• 47:34
  to California shortly after.
• 47:37
  They're like, okay, bye forever.
• 47:39
  - God damn dude.
• 47:41
  - Yeah.
• 47:42
  - So it's possible that even though I'm sure
• 47:47
  they themselves were maybe quite wealthy,
• 47:51
  they may have been mistaken for members
• 47:54
  of the Weyerhaeuser family.
• 47:55
  - Wow.
• 47:57
  - Wild.
• 47:57
  - That is intense.
• 47:59
  Like that could be--
• 48:00
  - Wild.
• 48:00
  - Not that I wanted to happen to another family,
• 48:02
  but like that could have happened to their family again.
• 48:05
  Like, yeah.
• 48:07
  (gasps)
• 48:09
  - Well, Senior was, I believe the grandpa,
• 48:12
  so I don't know that any of the Weyerhaeuser children
• 48:16
  would have been living in that home at that time.
• 48:19
  - Yeah.
• 48:20
  - But I mean, yeah, I'm just fucking wild.
• 48:23
  The parallels.
• 48:24
  Like, I mean, these cases happened so close together
• 48:29
  to wild.
• 48:31
  - Weird.
• 48:33
  Speaking of crazy.
• 48:35
  Actually, this is like the most same thing
• 48:38
  that Congress has done, probably, so.
• 48:40
  J.K., Congress passed the Federal Kidnapping Act,
• 48:45
  also known as the Lindbergh Law,
• 48:48
  on June 17th, 1932,
• 48:51
  making Interstate Kidnapping a Federal felony
• 48:55
  under the jurisdiction of the FBI.
• 48:58
  The law was in direct response to what appeared to be
• 49:02
  an increasingly profitable and popular racket
• 49:06
  that of kidnapping for ransom,
• 49:09
  particularly that of the Lindbergh baby,
• 49:12
  which is not a case that ends well, either.
• 49:15
  Until the kidnapping of Charles Mattson,
• 49:20
  there have been no major kidnappings involving the FBI
• 49:25
  since the kidnapping of none other than George H.
• 49:30
  Weyerhaeuser in Tacoma, also in fucking Tacoma.
• 49:36
  On May 24th, 1935, this was not that long after.
• 49:42
  - Yeah, well.
• 49:44
  - We're talking like May 1935,
• 49:47
  and then December 1936.
• 49:51
  - I can't remember, did those people get caught?
• 49:54
  - Sure did.
• 49:55
  - They did, okay, it's the only one.
• 49:56
  - What would you want to do it again if they got caught?
• 49:58
  - Well, I mean, it's different people.
• 50:00
  It's different people, it's not the, I mean.
• 50:02
  - Yeah, but we know.
• 50:03
  - But we know, there could be some crossover,
• 50:04
  but we're not sure.
• 50:06
  - Yeah.
• 50:07
  - Oh.
• 50:08
  - The intrigue.
• 50:09
  - Woo!
• 50:10
  - But it's like, I mean, that made it a very,
• 50:12
  very serious crime.
• 50:14
  It's also funny to me too, because
• 50:18
  until Charles was kidnapped,
• 50:21
  there had been no major kidnappings involving the FBI
• 50:25
  since George, and it's like, yeah,
• 50:27
  there was like six months ago, man.
• 50:29
  - Yeah.
• 50:29
  - It's like, wait, is that right?
• 50:32
  - No, there was like 18 months ago.
• 50:34
  - Still. - J.K.
• 50:35
  - 18 months.
• 50:36
  - I'll tip my, she can, man.
• 50:38
  - I can, man.
• 50:40
  - I just feel like that isn't really saying much.
• 50:42
  It's not that long of a period of time in between,
• 50:45
  but it is, it's like, that is what kind of earmarks
• 50:48
  this case as like the next like super high profile crime
• 50:53
  in that era involving kidnapping and ransom.
• 50:58
  So, but in any case, once the FBI was notified
• 51:02
  of the abduction, they determined that the federal
• 51:05
  kidnapping act had likely been violated.
• 51:09
  And immediately sent nine agents to Tacoma
• 51:12
  to assist the police in the hunt for the kidnapper,
• 51:15
  who was declared public enemy number one.
• 51:19
  - Oh, not in a good way.
• 51:23
  - No.
• 51:24
  - Which feels like an understatement
• 51:27
  when considering that within a week,
• 51:29
  FBI director, John Edgar Hoover,
• 51:32
  dispatched roughly 40 agents to Tacoma.
• 51:38
  And it's like, what?
• 51:41
  There was like, he sends like 50 people within like a week.
• 51:45
  So he's like, okay, we're gonna send like nine
• 51:47
  and then we'll send like 40 more.
• 51:49
  - That you could bet you do it.
• 51:51
  - Yeah.
• 51:52
  Jesus Christ.
• 51:54
  Along with the assistant director, Harold Nathan,
• 51:58
  to take charge of the investigation.
• 52:01
  Notably, Inspector Earl J. Connolly,
• 52:05
  who had successfully directed the warehouse or case,
• 52:09
  roughly 18 months earlier was sent from bureau headquarters
• 52:13
  to support the investigation.
• 52:14
  - Shit, dude, he's probably like, again.
• 52:18
  All the same, journalists were all but foaming at the mouth
• 52:23
  to get the next bit of coverage pertaining to the case,
• 52:26
  just as had been true in the warehouse or case.
• 52:30
  Sadly, those shadowing his every move
• 52:33
  made it very difficult for Dr. Mattson
• 52:36
  to negotiate with the kidnapper.
• 52:38
  However, just days after Christmas on Monday,
• 52:43
  December 28th, 1936,
• 52:47
  an advertisement appeared in the classified section
• 52:49
  of the Seattle Times, which read, "Mable,
• 52:53
  please give us your address and."
• 52:56
  Although the Mattson's denied knowledge of the ad,
• 53:00
  a special delivery letter arrived at the Mattson home
• 53:03
  Tuesday morning, which said that anyone could deliver
• 53:08
  the ransom money as long as the courier was alone
• 53:11
  and driving a Ford automobile.
• 53:13
  Further instruction said, "Agnore all messages delivered to you
• 53:18
  unless they are written in the same letters
• 53:21
  and the same ink as this.
• 53:24
  Tim."
• 53:24
  - Was there a lot of cars besides Ford's back then?
• 53:28
  - I don't really think so.
• 53:30
  - Or did it just mean it had to be in a car?
• 53:32
  - I'm not really sure.
• 53:34
  - Interesting.
• 53:35
  - In this case, the authorities agreed to back off
• 53:38
  until such a time that the safer turn of Charles
• 53:41
  could be secured, but still the media persisted,
• 53:45
  attempting to report every last detail.
• 53:48
  By January, dropping temperatures combined
• 53:53
  with increased snowfall in the area had the FBI concerned
• 53:57
  that the kidnapper might hold Charles indefinitely
• 54:00
  for fear of being easily tracked on account
• 54:03
  of the fresh flurries falling to the ground.
• 54:06
  Still, even as the weather cleared on Wednesday,
• 54:10
  January 6, their fears could not be aswaged
• 54:14
  as the kidnapper still remained eerily silent.
• 54:18
  - Silent night.
• 54:19
  - Yeah. Unholy night.
• 54:21
  - Unholy night for certain.
• 54:26
  The following day was the 11th day of Charles' captivity,
• 54:30
  and the family had no idea whether he might already be dead,
• 54:34
  or in fact remained alive and unharmed.
• 54:38
  The news media continued to madly spiral,
• 54:42
  indeed essentially stalking the grief-stricken family.
• 54:45
  - Jesus.
• 54:46
  - Worried for the young Charles,
• 54:48
  while the authorities continued their non-interventionist
• 54:52
  strategy, very popular in America,
• 54:55
  in the 1930s and up to a certain point in the '40s as well.
• 55:00
  - So the '40 people were just sitting up there,
• 55:03
  chilling?
• 55:05
  - I mean, they just were trying not to step on too many toes.
• 55:10
  They were there and they were trying to investigate,
• 55:13
  and I mean, they were really,
• 55:14
  they were trying to do everything that they can,
• 55:16
  but I think at that point,
• 55:19
  we don't have the same level of experience and data
• 55:24
  and expertise that we do now about these types of scenarios.
• 55:28
  So they're like, well, I don't know,
• 55:30
  maybe if we just back off, like everything will be fine.
• 55:33
  - It's hard to know what to do.
• 55:34
  It's kind of like literally if someone is holding a hostage
• 55:37
  at gunpoint right there,
• 55:38
  you can't shoot at them, like what do you do?
• 55:41
  - I mean, you can, sometimes they do.
• 55:44
  That's supposed to, right?
• 55:46
  - I mean, it really depends, it's very situational,
• 55:49
  but yeah, by and large, yeah,
• 55:51
  they're not gonna fire on someone who,
• 55:54
  but I don't know, I don't,
• 55:57
  it's like you can't project someone.
• 56:01
  - No, you don't, I mean,
• 56:02
  and even if they don't see it coming,
• 56:05
  this could be something where it's like a twitch
• 56:07
  or a jerk once they're impacted by,
• 56:11
  listen, I'm gonna spiral,
• 56:13
  I'm gonna go into a very dark place.
• 56:16
  Darker than is already standard for all up in here.
• 56:20
  I'll, I'll, I'll pull you out.
• 56:22
  - You can't.
• 56:25
  - No, I'm like the unicorn in.
• 56:26
  - We're fun.
• 56:27
  - What is that, the never ending story?
• 56:30
  - I'm nursing it.
• 56:31
  - Oh my God.
• 56:33
  Okay, anyways, we have to move on.
• 56:35
  - We have to move on.
• 56:37
  - Sorry.
• 56:39
  - A fifth classified ad was run by the Mattson family
• 56:43
  in the Seattle Times on Friday, January 8,
• 56:47
  which read, "Mabel, we are still waiting.
• 56:51
  All arrangements have been carried out
• 56:52
  in accordance with instructions contained in notes received.
• 56:57
  Be certain to give me information
• 56:59
  so I may guard against imposter and hijackers
• 57:03
  and be more specific in your instructions."
• 57:06
  Ann.
• 57:07
  On Sunday, January 10th,
• 57:11
  and the following Monday, the same ad appeared
• 57:14
  with the addition of one sentence.
• 57:17
  "In view of laps of time,
• 57:20
  "also desire, new proof my son is alive and well."
• 57:25
  Ann.
• 57:26
  However, though the family remained unaware,
• 57:32
  sadly it was already too late for Charles.
• 57:36
  A rabbit hunter by the name of Gordon Morrow
• 57:42
  would later discover his body on January 11th,
• 57:46
  1937, just a few short miles from his family's home
• 57:51
  in a Snohomish County field.
• 57:54
  Gordon had stumbled across the body of a young boy
• 57:58
  in a state of undress lying in the snow.
• 58:02
  He immediately ran home,
• 58:05
  alerting his father, Charles Morrow,
• 58:08
  to his horrific finding.
• 58:10
  Once he had inspected the scene,
• 58:14
  Charles sent his son to a gas station about a half mile away
• 58:18
  to reach the Snohomish County Sheriff by phone
• 58:22
  to inform him of the gruesome discovery.
• 58:24
  Now remember, not everybody has a phone
• 58:27
  in their home at this point.
• 58:28
  - Wow.
• 58:29
  - A lot of people, maybe,
• 58:31
  and certainly in a wealthy community, you know,
• 58:35
  not everybody.
• 58:36
  That poor kid, he was being run ragged.
• 58:40
  - Yeah.
• 58:42
  The area where the body was discovered
• 58:44
  was just about a half mile from Pacific Highway
• 58:47
  or 99 as literally everyone refers to it to my knowledge.
• 58:52
  It had been left amongst a growth of older saplings
• 58:57
  because there were both tire tracks
• 58:59
  and footprints found at the scene in the fresh snow.
• 59:03
  The investigators believed that the boy's body
• 59:07
  had been left there either late Sunday night
• 59:09
  or early Monday morning, having been killed elsewhere.
• 59:14
  Gordon Morrow thought the body was probably left
• 59:19
  about 9 p.m. on Sunday when his bulldog Nick
• 59:23
  started barking excitedly and running from door to door
• 59:26
  trying to get out of the house.
• 59:28
  - Oh.
• 59:28
  (laughing)
• 59:30
  He's like, "Someone needs my help!"
• 59:36
  "Someone, something is afloat!"
• 59:38
  - "Listen, your dog!"
• 59:40
  - "I know, I know."
• 59:42
  - I mean, it wouldn't have changed things.
• 59:45
  - No, it wouldn't.
• 59:46
  - But I'm saying like they know something is going on.
• 59:49
  - Yeah. - Yeah.
• 59:51
  The young boy's body was kept in an ambulance
• 59:53
  at the crime scene until it was identified as Charles
• 59:58
  by Paul H.
• 1:00:00
  "Siva, I'm gonna guess on the pronunciation."
• 1:00:03
  He was a close family friend.
• 1:00:06
  And James Gowdy, a relative of the Mattsons.
• 1:00:10
  A preliminary examination of the remains
• 1:00:14
  conducted by Snohomish County Corner,
• 1:00:18
  which, wow, we're guessing on the pronunciation here
• 1:00:21
  a little bit, stole, shallochome,
• 1:00:24
  and King County Corner, Auto H Middlestedt,
• 1:00:30
  was able to determine that the boy's likely cause of death
• 1:00:34
  was blunt trauma to his head with a heavy instrument.
• 1:00:38
  The report further detailed the condition of Charles' body.
• 1:00:42
  Stating that the bruises on the body indicated
• 1:00:46
  he had been handled roughly,
• 1:00:48
  which I think we could have told you that
• 1:00:52
  from as soon as he was taken from the home.
• 1:00:55
  And marks on the wrists showed his hands
• 1:00:59
  had been bound tightly with rope.
• 1:01:02
  They thought Charles had died no later than Thursday,
• 1:01:06
  and possibly only a short time after his abduction.
• 1:01:10
  Abrajians, grease marks, and dirt on the skin
• 1:01:15
  indicated the frozen body had been hauled around
• 1:01:19
  in the trunk of an automobile.
• 1:01:21
  - What the fuck is the point?
• 1:01:24
  - I thought you wanted money.
• 1:01:26
  - I mean, sometimes they think they can still get money,
• 1:01:30
  and a lot of times they use the ransom as a guise
• 1:01:34
  because what they really want to do is take a child.
• 1:01:37
  - It seems like it.
• 1:01:39
  - Yeah.
• 1:01:40
  On Monday night, at the FBI's direction,
• 1:01:46
  pathologist performed a formal autopsy
• 1:01:49
  at the Buckley King funeral home in Tacoma,
• 1:01:52
  which revealed that in addition to the massive head injuries,
• 1:01:57
  Charles had also sustained a stab wound in the back
• 1:02:01
  with a long-bladed knife.
• 1:02:03
  - Cheers.
• 1:02:05
  - Below freezing temperatures had prevailed
• 1:02:08
  in the region for nearly a week,
• 1:02:11
  keeping the body from decomposing
• 1:02:13
  and making it impossible to determine the time of death.
• 1:02:16
  But blue clay on the boy's face and hands
• 1:02:21
  indicated the body had probably been hidden
• 1:02:24
  on a riverbank or near mud flats.
• 1:02:27
  During a press conference on Tuesday,
• 1:02:31
  Paul Siva, that's the family friend who acted as
• 1:02:36
  a spokesman for the family,
• 1:02:38
  told reporters that the weary kidnapper had communicated
• 1:02:41
  at least three times with Dr. Matzen by mail and telephone.
• 1:02:46
  But as days passed, his communications were confusing
• 1:02:50
  and conflicting, and Dr. Mattson was unable
• 1:02:53
  to get clear instructions on how to deliver the ransom.
• 1:02:57
  In early January, Dr. Mattson attempted a rendezvous
• 1:03:02
  at a secret location on Beacon Hill in Seattle.
• 1:03:06
  But there had been a snow-related traffic accident nearby,
• 1:03:11
  attracting the attention of several passers-by,
• 1:03:15
  and kidnapper apparently fearing a trap
• 1:03:19
  failed to appear and the negotiations ended abruptly.
• 1:03:23
  No.
• 1:03:25
  On January 14, the funeral for Charles H. Mattson
• 1:03:32
  was held at the Buckley King funeral church.
• 1:03:35
  The 25-minute service conducted by Reverend Harold B. Long,
• 1:03:41
  pastor of the Emanuel Presbyterian Church,
• 1:03:45
  was attended by family and some 200 friends,
• 1:03:50
  after which the body was interred in a crypt
• 1:03:53
  at the Tacoma mausoleum.
• 1:03:55
  - About 200 people?
• 1:03:58
  - Over well over 200 people.
• 1:04:01
  - That's crazy.
• 1:04:02
  - Included among the scores of floral tributes
• 1:04:06
  was a large arrangement of roses and gardenias
• 1:04:09
  from FBI director J. Edgar Hoover.
• 1:04:13
  - Oh.
• 1:04:14
  - Still a dick.
• 1:04:15
  - Meanwhile, both local police and FBI agents
• 1:04:20
  were still working to collect any information or evidence
• 1:04:23
  and pursuing any lead they could find.
• 1:04:26
  They tracked down the usual suspects,
• 1:04:30
  such as numerous known criminals,
• 1:04:32
  questioning scores of possible suspects,
• 1:04:36
  they even looked for stolen cars or potential hideouts
• 1:04:39
  and literally any other clue.
• 1:04:42
  While search parties had found a number of items
• 1:04:46
  that appeared promising that were then collected
• 1:04:49
  and analyzed by the FBI,
• 1:04:52
  it all seemed to lead precisely nowhere.
• 1:04:55
  By January of 1937, the story was no longer front page news
• 1:05:01
  and the leads began to slowly dry up.
• 1:05:05
  Among the items discovered were a stolen,
• 1:05:10
  blood-stained automobile, a kitchen knife,
• 1:05:14
  as well as a shack where a number of clothing items
• 1:05:18
  both boys and men's clothing, some of them bloody,
• 1:05:22
  were found.
• 1:05:23
  It was believed that any of these items
• 1:05:26
  may have been used by the kidnapper,
• 1:05:28
  but still nothing more materialized.
• 1:05:31
  - It seems like they literally found all of the things,
• 1:05:34
  but the guy who did it.
• 1:05:35
  - Yep.
• 1:05:36
  We can talk about it after when you're done.
• 1:05:39
  - On Saturday, January 16th, 1937,
• 1:05:44
  Dr. Mattson issued his first written statement
• 1:05:47
  about the kidnapping, which was both published
• 1:05:51
  in newspapers and broadcast on the radio.
• 1:05:54
  First, he thanked the public for its support
• 1:05:58
  and praised law enforcement or their tireless efforts.
• 1:06:02
  Then, Dr. Mattson commented on the behavior
• 1:06:06
  of the news media.
• 1:06:08
  True enough, I did have to beg the press to lay off
• 1:06:12
  and it was trying at times to carry on
• 1:06:17
  under an overly, under an overly,
• 1:06:21
  average news service.
• 1:06:24
  But they did withdraw when I requested them to
• 1:06:27
  and continue to cooperate with me in every way.
• 1:06:31
  And for this, I am thankful.
• 1:06:34
  - Wow.
• 1:06:35
  - Yes, some other people, we'll talk about it
• 1:06:38
  in the Patreon mini-sode.
• 1:06:41
  There are some other people with other opinions.
• 1:06:43
  And not just me.
• 1:06:47
  (sniffing)
• 1:06:49
  Although law enforcement authorities make every effort,
• 1:06:52
  the kidnapping and murder of Charles Mattson
• 1:06:55
  has never been solved and remains an open case
• 1:06:58
  at the federal bureau of investigation.
• 1:07:01
  As of 1961, over 25,000 suspects
• 1:07:07
  have been investigated and eliminated
• 1:07:11
  according to the final page of the piece entitled,
• 1:07:15
  protecting the innocent.
• 1:07:17
  Law enforcement's sacred task.
• 1:07:20
  By none other than J. Edgar Hoover,
• 1:07:24
  housed in the Notre Dame.
• 1:07:26
  - Notre Dame.
• 1:07:27
  - Notre Dame.
• 1:07:28
  - I like Dame.
• 1:07:29
  Notre Dame, law review.
• 1:07:32
  - 25,000?
• 1:07:35
  Is that normal?
• 1:07:37
  I'm gonna go with no.
• 1:07:39
  - A lot of people.
• 1:07:41
  - When it's presumably a stranger abduction,
• 1:07:44
  you have a much larger pool.
• 1:07:47
  Wow.
• 1:07:49
  So for anybody that finds themselves obsessed
• 1:07:54
  with the JonBenét Ramsey case, I mean, I get it,
• 1:07:57
  but also like, uh, lurrr.
• 1:08:01
  I mean, we know who did it.
• 1:08:02
  I have theories, but we're not gonna get into that.
• 1:08:08
  All I'm saying is pineapple kills people.
• 1:08:10
  - What?
• 1:08:14
  - Pineapple is a major aspect of that case.
• 1:08:17
  - I don't remember that part.
• 1:08:18
  - Oh my God.
• 1:08:19
  - Yep.
• 1:08:20
  - Nope.
• 1:08:20
  - It's all last thing.
• 1:08:22
  - Been a while.
• 1:08:23
  - Maybe we'll have to talk about that.
• 1:08:25
  I'd be okay with that.
• 1:08:26
  - Yeah.
• 1:08:28
  I've never really, I've never really thought
• 1:08:31
  about covering JonBenét.
• 1:08:32
  - I don't know where it's at.
• 1:08:34
  Colorado, I believe.
• 1:08:35
  - Oh.
• 1:08:36
  - Yeah.
• 1:08:37
  - Technically in our jurisdiction.
• 1:08:38
  - No.
• 1:08:41
  - Our jurisdiction.
• 1:08:42
  (laughs)
• 1:08:44
  - Yeah, I mean, I'm just reading so much
• 1:08:46
  of J. Edgar Hoover's stuff here
• 1:08:49
  that I think I got a little woo.
• 1:08:51
  - Did you love it?
• 1:08:52
  - Ugh, it was the best thing you ever heard.
• 1:08:54
  - He's kind of the worst.
• 1:08:55
  I mean, he definitely like tried to do right
• 1:08:58
  by this family, but I mean, he's that sour.
• 1:09:02
  He had his assistants and plumber.
• 1:09:04
  - Yeah.
• 1:09:05
  - Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  - Yeah.
• 1:09:06
  - Yeah.
• 1:09:08
  Any who's all, should we get to some tarot?
• 1:09:11
  - Yeah, let's do tarot.
• 1:09:12
  - Let's get, I'm happy to do tarot.
• 1:09:14
  - She's like, okay, bye.
• 1:09:15
  - Okay, bye.
• 1:09:16
  - Bye.
• 1:09:16
  (laughs)
• 1:09:18
  - I know, that was so sad.
• 1:09:19
  - I know.
• 1:09:20
  - The poor, I know.
• 1:09:22
  - The poor family.
• 1:09:23
  - The youngest child too.
• 1:09:25
  Can you imagine?
• 1:09:28
  And then they have a friend there.
• 1:09:29
  - Yeah, I would just think that.
• 1:09:30
  - They have a friend there that witnesses that like,
• 1:09:33
  holy shit, is she your BFF forever?
• 1:09:36
  - I don't know.
• 1:09:37
  - I don't know.
• 1:09:38
  - I'm a bonded, we've talked about it.
• 1:09:39
  - We talked about it.
• 1:09:40
  - You don't have to stay together, but.
• 1:09:42
  Or does that just like become this thing that like,
• 1:09:45
  is so huge, your relationship just cannot bridge that divide?
• 1:09:50
  Oh.
• 1:09:53
  (sighs)
• 1:09:55
  And I actually have in the Patreon mini-sau,
• 1:09:59
  there is something so incredibly tragic about this case
• 1:10:03
  that predates even Charles's birth.
• 1:10:06
  And I don't wanna give too much away,
• 1:10:08
  but holy fucking shit,
• 1:10:10
  when will people stop fucking with the Mattsons?
• 1:10:13
  I can't, I can't.
• 1:10:15
  This poor family.
• 1:10:18
  - I wish they would never fuck with them.
• 1:10:20
  - Yeah, like, zero fucking about with the Mattson family.
• 1:10:25
  Shhh, stop it.
• 1:10:26
  So so sad.
• 1:10:29
  (whimsical music)
• 1:10:32
  (Cards shuffling)
• 1:10:34
  (Cards shuffling)
• 1:10:40
  - So three of wands in the reverse?
• 1:10:44
  - Yeah.
• 1:10:45
  - Red-tailed hawk adult.
• 1:10:49
  - Yeah.
• 1:10:50
  - It's specifying it's an adult.
• 1:10:51
  - Okay, I think we've gotten this one before
• 1:10:53
  and we've read about the hawk.
• 1:10:54
  - Oh, 'cause we've got, the two of wands
• 1:10:56
  is a red-tailed hawk, a fledgling.
• 1:10:59
  - Oh.
• 1:11:00
  - That's not an adult.
• 1:11:02
  - I assume that's not an adult.
• 1:11:04
  (laughs)
• 1:11:06
  - A fledgling, is that like an adolescent?
• 1:11:09
  Like a baby?
• 1:11:10
  Just a little baby.
• 1:11:12
  - It's not close.
• 1:11:12
  - Oh, check.
• 1:11:13
  - I can't know when I'll, oh well.
• 1:11:15
  All right, we're gonna keep it moving.
• 1:11:18
  Our keywords for the three of wands are creativity
• 1:11:23
  and skill, self-expression, growth, competence
• 1:11:28
  and manifestation.
• 1:11:30
  - It's interesting.
• 1:11:33
  - Okay.
• 1:11:33
  - Now is the time to show the world what you can do.
• 1:11:38
  You've worked hard to develop your talents
• 1:11:40
  and have confidence in your abilities.
• 1:11:42
  You, I really hate this in the application
• 1:11:45
  of like a kidnapper.
• 1:11:46
  - It is reverse, so I'm curious about
• 1:11:48
  the reverse interpretation of this.
• 1:11:51
  - Oh, okay.
• 1:11:52
  - You feel passionately about what you do
• 1:11:56
  and believe you can inspire others, express yourself.
• 1:11:59
  - Hmm, okay.
• 1:12:01
  - We've definitely gotten this before.
• 1:12:03
  I think we have the same like reaction.
• 1:12:04
  It's like, ooh.
• 1:12:05
  - Yeah, itki.
• 1:12:08
  - Okay.
• 1:12:08
  - Ooh.
• 1:12:11
  - Okay, there's an extra excerpt
• 1:12:13
  before the reverse interpretation.
• 1:12:16
  It says, hidden alliances, work to move you
• 1:12:20
  into your authentic vocation,
• 1:12:23
  as soon as you begin to commit to it.
• 1:12:25
  - Hmm.
• 1:12:28
  - I get automatically reminds me of what you said
• 1:12:32
  about how there might have been like a getaway driver,
• 1:12:35
  like other people might have been involved.
• 1:12:38
  And he stayed like hidden, like he had a mask.
• 1:12:42
  - Ooh, I hate that.
• 1:12:42
  - Obviously like this part is putting like a positive spin
• 1:12:45
  on it, but we know we're gonna relate it to this story
• 1:12:49
  and it's not.
• 1:12:50
  - Yeah.
• 1:12:51
  - Okay.
• 1:12:52
  - You still have work to do before you go public
• 1:12:55
  with your ideas.
• 1:12:57
  - Oh no.
• 1:12:58
  Like maybe your generic poorly written demand letter
• 1:13:01
  isn't ideal.
• 1:13:03
  - I needed work.
• 1:13:04
  - Definitely.
• 1:13:06
  - Perhaps you could benefit from honing your skills.
• 1:13:10
  - Honing your kiddo tie-freader skills.
• 1:13:12
  - Oh no, I hate that.
• 1:13:15
  Some areas of an undertaking still need clarification.
• 1:13:19
  Oh my God, they literally asked for clarification
• 1:13:22
  in the instructions from, yeah.
• 1:13:25
  And it's resolved.
• 1:13:26
  - Cookie.
• 1:13:29
  - Or you may need to win the support
• 1:13:32
  and blessing of others in order to advance.
• 1:13:36
  - Okay, I'm gonna read the bullet points
• 1:13:38
  and then I might wanna draw in their card.
• 1:13:41
  - In a question about money,
• 1:13:42
  this card can mean the financial support you need
• 1:13:45
  isn't there at this time.
• 1:13:47
  - What?
• 1:13:48
  (laughs)
• 1:13:50
  - You might have to work extra hard for a while
• 1:13:52
  to make ends meet.
• 1:13:54
  Be prudent in spending.
• 1:13:55
  - Oh gosh.
• 1:13:57
  - In a reading about work, the reverse three
• 1:14:02
  suggests you're not ready yet to market your project slash ideas.
• 1:14:07
  You feel passionately about what you're doing,
• 1:14:09
  but you still have to convince other people to get on board.
• 1:14:13
  - Yeah.
• 1:14:14
  - For artistic people, this card advises,
• 1:14:18
  don't give up your day job yet.
• 1:14:20
  - Well, yeah, don't kidnap people.
• 1:14:24
  - Yeah, don't do that professionally or otherwise, ideally.
• 1:14:29
  - I should say kidnap and murder because it was not.
• 1:14:31
  - Yeah.
• 1:14:32
  - It just reminds me of something that you're trying to do
• 1:14:36
  that isn't going right, basically.
• 1:14:38
  - Yeah, stop trying to make that happen.
• 1:14:40
  - Ooh, a hawk.
• 1:14:43
  He was maybe watching the place.
• 1:14:46
  - Oh yeah, that's a really good connection.
• 1:14:48
  This one also has birds.
• 1:14:50
  - Interesting.
• 1:14:51
  - Yeah.
• 1:14:52
  - Oh, it's a two of cups.
• 1:14:54
  Oh, that's like the really happy card.
• 1:14:56
  - It is, it was in reverse.
• 1:14:58
  - Okay.
• 1:15:01
  - Okay.
• 1:15:02
  Oh no, oh, this makes sense though, I think.
• 1:15:07
  Oh.
• 1:15:08
  Okay, two of cups, keywords are partnership, harmony,
• 1:15:13
  creative exchange and cooperation.
• 1:15:17
  In many decks, the two of cups shows a man
• 1:15:19
  and woman holding chalices as if toasting each other.
• 1:15:23
  The card represents joining forces with someone
• 1:15:27
  either romantically or in a creative slash spiritual endeavor.
• 1:15:32
  - The card keeps coming up when we're talking
• 1:15:34
  about your wedding.
• 1:15:35
  - Yeah, that's true.
• 1:15:36
  Ooh.
• 1:15:38
  You share a common dream, interest or passion
• 1:15:41
  and can work together to bring it into being.
• 1:15:44
  We kept getting it in the upright.
• 1:15:47
  I feel like as opposed to now we're doing it in the reverse.
• 1:15:50
  Both of these cards are in reverse.
• 1:15:52
  - It just makes me think that he did
• 1:15:53
  how to have like a partner.
• 1:15:56
  - Yeah.
• 1:15:57
  - I think that seems like maybe a fair assumption.
• 1:16:02
  I don't know.
• 1:16:04
  - I don't know, I mean, I don't have all of the evidence,
• 1:16:07
  but yeah, but I think it makes sense.
• 1:16:10
  And the fact that the investigator is believed that
• 1:16:13
  based on the fact that it looks like he fled to a car,
• 1:16:15
  you know, right around the corner essentially.
• 1:16:18
  - And the tarot is saying it.
• 1:16:19
  So like it must be true.
• 1:16:20
  - Yeah, so I mean, the backs, am I right?
• 1:16:24
  Mutual respect and equality exists between you.
• 1:16:27
  All right, so our reversed interpretation.
• 1:16:34
  When the two of cups appears reversed,
• 1:16:37
  it suggests disharmony and a lack of cooperation.
• 1:16:41
  I'm picturing two kidnappers just kind of bickering.
• 1:16:46
  Like the guys from home alone or something.
• 1:16:49
  - Yeah. - You know, just like real dumb.
• 1:16:51
  - It just seems like it because of all of the
• 1:16:54
  miscommunication with the ransom and stuff.
• 1:16:58
  Maybe one of them did want to hurt the child
• 1:17:02
  and one of them didn't.
• 1:17:03
  And I mean, you see that a lot where just kind of they're not aligned.
• 1:17:08
  They're both interested in collecting ransom or a reward,
• 1:17:13
  but they don't have the same values in terms of like,
• 1:17:17
  I don't want to hurt the kid.
• 1:17:18
  And the other guys like, I don't really care.
• 1:17:20
  - Yeah, so maybe just like don't do crime.
• 1:17:22
  - Yeah, so just like don't.
• 1:17:24
  - So just maybe don't.
• 1:17:26
  - Oof. - Okay.
• 1:17:30
  - It may mean a partnership takes a while to get going
• 1:17:33
  or that you run into obstacles.
• 1:17:36
  In some cases, it indicates dwindling affection,
• 1:17:39
  inequality or a lack of supportiveness in a relationship.
• 1:17:43
  In a reading about money, the reverse two can signify
• 1:17:48
  an uneven investment of resources.
• 1:17:52
  It can also represent complications or a delay
• 1:17:55
  in receiving money.
• 1:17:56
  - Wow, okay, yes.
• 1:17:58
  - Especially from a joint venture, trust,
• 1:18:01
  divorce settlement or legacy or ransom.
• 1:18:04
  - That's a little, yeah, that feels kind of on the nose.
• 1:18:07
  - Wow.
• 1:18:09
  - If the reading is about your job,
• 1:18:10
  this card may mean you don't feel a business partner
• 1:18:14
  is pulling his or her weight or you don't get the support you desire.
• 1:18:19
  It can also point to a lack of cooperation in your workplace.
• 1:18:24
  In a reading about love, the reverse two sometimes represents
• 1:18:27
  a secret liaison or it may point to a period of disharmony
• 1:18:32
  or cooling affection.
• 1:18:35
  Perhaps there's a lack of balance or equality in a relationship.
• 1:18:39
  - All of that sounds great.
• 1:18:42
  - Yeah, I think so.
• 1:18:44
  And I feel like the kind of the takeaway
• 1:18:47
  from both of those cards now kind of makes a little bit more.
• 1:18:50
  It feels like that hits.
• 1:18:52
  - Okay, I was thinking like what if he is someone
• 1:18:55
  who migrated over here but with no paperwork or something,
• 1:18:59
  that's why they couldn't find him.
• 1:19:00
  - Oh.
• 1:19:01
  - Because he had no record.
• 1:19:03
  - Maybe.
• 1:19:04
  - I feel like that's back then.
• 1:19:06
  - Yeah.
• 1:19:07
  - It was easier to get into the country without anyone knowing.
• 1:19:10
  - That's true.
• 1:19:11
  Yeah, there's a lot more tomfoolery that could be afloat.
• 1:19:15
  And it's this travel here.
• 1:19:16
  So interesting.
• 1:19:19
  I think I solved it.
• 1:19:21
  - Solved it.
• 1:19:22
  You're welcome.
• 1:19:24
  - The hawk hopped off the ledge idly,
• 1:19:26
  unperturbed that their motion was more falling than taking flight.
• 1:19:31
  Oh my God.
• 1:19:32
  That's like kind of funny.
• 1:19:34
  'Cause it's like he's just like fumbling through this thing,
• 1:19:37
  like knocking on the door and then deciding to break it.
• 1:19:40
  - Well, and then not to mention too,
• 1:19:42
  like they talked about that really steep embankment
• 1:19:45
  at the back end of their property.
• 1:19:47
  - It reminds me like Princess Bride
• 1:19:48
  where they just like rolled in the hills.
• 1:19:51
  - Little bit, right?
• 1:19:52
  I mean, oof, I don't know.
• 1:19:54
  That's kind of, it's interesting.
• 1:19:56
  The visual aspect of that is.
• 1:20:00
  - It also reminds me of myself getting out of the car
• 1:20:03
  'cause I'm like really bad at getting out of the car.
• 1:20:04
  I just kind of like fall out.
• 1:20:06
  - I'm really bad at getting out.
• 1:20:08
  - I don't know why it's so hard.
• 1:20:09
  - Mostly bad, but like sometimes the car, I don't know.
• 1:20:15
  They smoothly extend their wings into the turbulence,
• 1:20:18
  calmly feeling for the familiar support of the air.
• 1:20:22
  Catching it in their feathers,
• 1:20:24
  they directed the momentum of their fall into an upward curve.
• 1:20:29
  On a rising wind, they circled higher
• 1:20:32
  until they could see the curvature of the horizon
• 1:20:36
  and the world laid out before them.
• 1:20:38
  - Oh wow.
• 1:20:39
  - Once stepping from solidarity into the sky
• 1:20:43
  had been daunting and dangerous.
• 1:20:46
  Now the hawk knew that the risk was not
• 1:20:49
  in taking the leap, it was in staying still.
• 1:20:52
  - Oh, that's very interesting.
• 1:20:55
  - Yeah.
• 1:20:56
  'Cause that like it, like ransom,
• 1:20:58
  you can't just sit there.
• 1:21:01
  - Well, yeah.
• 1:21:02
  - You have to do something.
• 1:21:02
  - Yeah.
• 1:21:03
  - Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  It reminds me of like all the FBI agents there too,
• 1:21:08
  like trying not to get in the way too much,
• 1:21:13
  but it's not wanting to like sit there and do nothing.
• 1:21:16
  - Yeah.
• 1:21:17
  - Like the push and pull of the situation.
• 1:21:21
  - That's interesting.
• 1:21:22
  - And like the risk too of, you know,
• 1:21:24
  this bird leaping into the air and trying to fly,
• 1:21:27
  it's like the risk of doing something
• 1:21:29
  and risking this child's life.
• 1:21:31
  - Yeah.
• 1:21:33
  Wow, I hadn't really thought about it from,
• 1:21:37
  I guess that perspective, that's interesting.
• 1:21:41
  - That's what I'm here for.
• 1:21:43
  - Yeah, this is a rough one.
• 1:21:44
  - Yeah.
• 1:21:46
  - Sorry.
• 1:21:46
  - I don't know why I'm apologizing.
• 1:21:48
  I didn't do this.
• 1:21:49
  - She did it.
• 1:21:50
  - I do worse.
• 1:21:51
  - No.
• 1:21:52
  - Yeah, I do worse.
• 1:21:53
  - I'm not true at all.
• 1:21:54
  - I don't know if it's debatable.
• 1:21:55
  - No.
• 1:21:56
  - Debate a bone.
• 1:21:58
  Do you have anything else?
• 1:22:02
  - No, I have some other notes that I'm gonna,
• 1:22:05
  we'll go through and we'll do our little mini-sode
• 1:22:08
  for Patreon, but.
• 1:22:10
  - Okay, other than that.
• 1:22:13
  No, we have like so many mini-sodes to catch up on too.
• 1:22:16
  So, Patreon, we're coming.
• 1:22:19
  - Good time.
• 1:22:19
  - It's gonna be on the Patreon.
• 1:22:21
  - We did just do a Patreon bonus.
• 1:22:23
  We released one on, I think it was Friday,
• 1:22:25
  but I posted it.
• 1:22:26
  - That sounds right.
• 1:22:28
  - That was yesterday.
• 1:22:29
  Oh my God, it's Saturday.
• 1:22:30
  - Oh, what is happening?
• 1:22:31
  - Oh, seriously.
• 1:22:33
  - You know, back on Friday when I posted that.
• 1:22:36
  - Well, and when did that episode come out?
• 1:22:38
  'Cause I was like, oh, that's like a little while back.
• 1:22:40
  - It was, it was the targeted terror
• 1:22:43
  the hornstein family.
• 1:22:44
  It's night.
• 1:22:46
  - Ooh.
• 1:22:46
  - It was a bonus about that.
• 1:22:47
  So, another fun case that I have covered.
• 1:22:51
  - But the bonus, what it's not as terrifying
• 1:22:54
  at the original.
• 1:22:55
  - No, I've been trying to find,
• 1:22:57
  do a little bit of like kind of a deep dive
• 1:23:01
  and sometimes you just come across like an article
• 1:23:04
  that talks about a case or like someone involved in it
• 1:23:08
  from a totally different angle
• 1:23:10
  than everything else that you're reading
• 1:23:12
  or a very specific point in the timeline
• 1:23:16
  or I don't know, something that just doesn't always
• 1:23:18
  fit neatly.
• 1:23:20
  - Yeah.
• 1:23:21
  - And sometimes I'm like, I'm not gonna make this a two-parter,
• 1:23:24
  especially because it's like, this is like 1.125 parts,
• 1:23:29
  really, if you, you know, if you add it all up,
• 1:23:33
  but yeah, there's a lot of, I'm super excited
• 1:23:38
  for you to hear this mini-side because
• 1:23:41
  I think there's some synchronicity stuff
• 1:23:44
  that's gonna like kind of,
• 1:23:46
  - Oh.
• 1:23:47
  - And then knock your sacks off, baby.
• 1:23:49
  - All right, well let's do it.
• 1:23:51
  - Show it.
• 1:23:51
  - Let's go do that.
• 1:23:52
  - All right, should we say goodbye to the people?
• 1:23:54
  - Yeah, okay.
• 1:23:54
  - Say goodbye to the regular creepy.
• 1:23:56
  - Where are our manners?
• 1:23:58
  (laughing)
• 1:24:01
  - Have a creepy ass day.
• 1:24:04
  See you next Tuesday.
• 1:24:05
  - See you next Tuesday.
• 1:24:07
  - Please don't ask for a ransom, I guess.
• 1:24:09
  Like a, it's like a, it's like a,
• 1:24:11
  - Falling down a hill, yelling for $28,000.
• 1:24:15
  Come see us instead.
• 1:24:16
  - Wait, wait, I, I, I, I,
• 1:24:19
  I've been come like, watch us listen to us,
• 1:24:22
  be normal person, don't be an asshole.
• 1:24:24
  - I was like, are you not fighting, kid, that's normal.
• 1:24:26
  - No, no, no, what I meant.
• 1:24:30
  - Listen to creepy stuff, don't be the creepy stuff.
• 1:24:33
  - That's true.
• 1:24:34
  - Yes.
• 1:24:34
  - Okay.
• 1:24:35
  - Am I the weird one?
• 1:24:36
  (laughing)
• 1:24:39
  - I really do think that's our news, yeah.
• 1:24:40
  - We're gonna go ahead and reddit.
• 1:24:42
  (upbeat music)
• 1:24:44
  - Kind of, yeah, it was like,
• 1:24:49
  - Not a, okay.
• 1:24:50
  - Toyota.
• 1:24:51
  - Yeah.
• 1:24:52
  - Do you bring a Mitsubishi?
• 1:24:54
  (laughing)
• 1:24:55
  - A Mitsubishi.
• 1:24:56
  - I was gonna say that so funny,
• 1:24:58
  'cause I wanted to say that,
• 1:24:59
  but I knew like my mouth couldn't get the word out.
• 1:25:02
  - I was like, God damn it, I was so close.
• 1:25:04
  - I didn't even wanna see the intent that word.
• 1:25:08
  - Mitsubishi.
• 1:25:09
  - Mitsubishi.
• 1:25:10
  - You're wrong.
• 1:25:13
  - I did.
• 1:25:14
  - I did wanna see, yeah.
• 1:25:14
  I know I feel like if you say it with an Italian flair,
• 1:25:16
  it's all wrong, but be fun.
• 1:25:18
  - It's all wrong, not right at all.
• 1:25:20
  - No.
• 1:25:21
  - Don't cancel me, please.
• 1:25:22
  - Listen, if saying Mitsubishi that way is wrong,
• 1:25:26
  I don't wanna be right.
• 1:25:28
  - If you win anything, it's like a vowel, like an eye
• 1:25:31
  or something.
• 1:25:32
  - I wanna give it the flourish. (pnwhauntsandhomicides.com)