Latest / Pod Therapy / #443: Public Speaking, Supporting a Spouse, Come to Jesus

Transcript

#443: Public Speaking, Supporting a Spouse, Come to Jesus · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: To burn fuel off. Yeah, I was like, what is happening?
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's probably better for the environment than.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Just don't jumping it. Yeah, that's true.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I've taken some pretty environmentally friendly dumps.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I was waiting for a cue for the musical that one.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I know how Jacob does this. He worked with them
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: a while for eight years. Yet you were surprised he
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: started from Fabulous Loss. Yeah, I don't know, from fabulous
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Las Vegas, Nevada. This is pod Therapy, real people, real problems,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: and real therapists. You can submit your questions anonymously at
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: pod therapy dot next or email us at pod therapy
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from the
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: unnamed studio. That's Jim. Hello, that's Whitney. I'm next time
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: for spot Therapy. I just read whatever's on here. That's right,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Have a good evening. So this is doctor Jacob smith Y. Yeah,
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: doctor j this is the final episode of our shortened abbreviated.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Summer, shortened Summer show, shortened Shummer show.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: And so we're going to be back to our full
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: length episode, full.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Strength next week length full strength.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, episode title, all right, next week? Well then next week.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Well then, so yeah, no gym today, but that's all right.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: We still have one doctor in the house. Yes, and
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: we are ready to roll.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: We are speaking of Roland. We got public speaking. Hi Gang,
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: long time, third time. I wrote in previously about being
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: back in school after a decade and noticing that the
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: perfectionism ingrained in me as a kid was coming back.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: I would beat myself up for getting an A instead
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: of an A plus on every test and exam. I
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: took your advice, and last semester was much better. While
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: I still while I did still manage to complete all
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: of my classes with an A plus, I was much
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: less stressed and realized that I could miss questions on
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: exams and still do well in the class. Overall, I
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: still push myself to do the best that I can,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: but I'm learning that perfection is not the goal here.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: With that being said, this time through college, I am
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: taking all the opportunities that I can. My first time
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: through I went to class, spent time with friends, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: that was about it. No extra curricular curriculars I can't
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: say that word. No office hour visits, no networking, et cetera.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: This time around, I'm making a point to meet with
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: professors even though it's all virtual, and taking advantage of
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: different opportunities the college and professors have to offer. I'm
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: in the very early stages of working on my master's thesis,
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: and my research advisor suggested I attend a conference in
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: mid July to give a presentation on the research I
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: helped her with last semester and try to pepper in
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: some of the stuff that I'm working on. This will
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: be a very good experience with a big networking opportunity,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: as I will be able to meet researchers, professors, and
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: people in the conversation field. Sorry, the in the conservation field,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: not the conversation we're the conversation feel this is you
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: can't do what we do, all right?
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: As I put on my glasses, the bifle, let's see. Nope,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: nose don't make it better. However, I do not like
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: public speaking.
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  Speaker 3: I get bad anxiety when I'm the center of attention
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: and my mouth gets dry, I get all sweaty, and
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I stumble on my words. I gave a brief presentation
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: on this same material in April as a practice run
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: and did fine, but I was extremely anxious leading up
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: to it and feel like I could have done better.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: I'm also dealing with imposter syndrome a bit, knowing that
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: these are career researchers and professionals and I'm just finishing
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: an undergrad degree before moving on to grad school. My
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: advisor has said that everyone there is extremely nice and
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: genuinely wants the next generation to succeed and will help
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: in any way they can. But it's still pretty nerve wracking.
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: I feel like I just don't know the material well
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: enough to give a presentation. Do you have any advice
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: on handling public speaking when it's not your forte For
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: those who have gone to conferences, what should I expect?
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: I'm certainly gonna take Jacob's classic advice and fake it
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: till I make it nice. Everybody drink, but more tips
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: will be greatly appreciated.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Thanks for all you do. That's Adam. Okay. So a
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: while back, I remember we had this conversation on the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: show about like cringe moments. Sure, everybody has one of those,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and if you think back, it just keeps you up
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: at night and you're just in your head and reliving
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: it and you just cringe and you just feel so gross.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: And everybody had one except me, and I couldn't think
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: of one. I just remember hear it. Okay, So Adam,
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: here we go. Here's my advice. It will never be
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: as bad. That's what I did. Have you Okay, So, Whitney,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: have you ever presented at a conference?
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: No, but I've been and seen them.
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  Speaker 2: Okay, so I've In my undergrad I was involved in
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: two different research projects. Okay. One of them was we
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: were researching gambling behavior. Okay, so it was actually it
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: was really fun. So what we were gambling was, or
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: what we're experimenting or kind of researching was was known
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: as the near miss phenomenon. Okay, okay, So this idea
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: that like you need three sevens, you get two and
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: a half seven So that makes you think that you're
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: getting closer to it, to winning, and so you get
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: you get too and you see what you see the
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: next one, and the real it just moved a little
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: bit more. Yeah. So it's this idea that there's actually
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: no reinforcement of the behavior, but the behavior is reinforced anyway. Right,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So it kind of goes against what you would think
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: of as far as like operant conditioning. Yes, okay, so
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: it's it's really kind of strange in that sense, and
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: so it was it was this weird phenomena. So that's
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: what we're researching. And so we had we actually created
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: slot machines that people would play on the computer, and
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: so we had this system all set up. Anyway, did
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: you pay out? No, fucking bitch.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: No did we Funding wasn't there.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: So like psychology students, I hear you people bitch and
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: mode about funding.
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: All we pay people to participate in the research methods
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: like classes.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: If you were if you were a psychology student, I
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: think you got.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Actually got credit.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: You got credit. Oh that's not nothing. And then I
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: want to say that there were some that we were
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: able to do something like gift cards or maybe something
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: like that like hands in the back alley over the pants. Yeah,
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: so that was one of them. The other one was
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: a research project that I was working on with one
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: of the professors where he was he was looking at
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: learning styles in the classroom, and so I always thought
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: it was weird that this one professor was still using
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: an overhead projector when everyone else had switched to PowerPoint. Okay,
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: but he was doing it because it was part of
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: a research project that we didn't know about. It, and
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: so he would compare test results. Basic. Yeah, and so
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I was part of So I was part of that
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: research project. But I'm part of that research project in
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: the same way a mouse is part of a research project.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: You're not far off, because I actually did sign up
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: with him as like a research assistant. Okay, but here's
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: the thing.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: The mouse graduated moved.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: It's doctor mouse. But the gambling one was interesting, like
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: that was exciting. So it was something that I could,
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I could explain. But that's not the one
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: that we took to the conference. We took the other
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: one to a conference in Chicago, and so I had
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: to present on that and I had no idea what
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: the fuck I was doing because I was part of it.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Was there was two of us, two research assistants, doing this,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: and the other one quit.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: You're kind of reminding me.
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: I think I did present at a research thing and
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: I blocked it out because I was so terrible.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I would love to present at one
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: of these things and not know anything about what.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: There's like ten people in the audience that the one
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I went to, there's like no one.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: It was so bad.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Here's the standing there and standing there and presenting information
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: is not the difficult part. It's fielding questions.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's where they get you, because then you're like,
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: I don't know, yeah, yeah, you were right.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like this was me.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I was embarrassed.
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: I have blocked this, damn you, because I remember I
• 8:39
  Speaker 5: was being asked questions and I just now instead of
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: saying I don't know, I just made ship up.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: I can't correct. You were born for this.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: And so afterwards the professor pulled me aside. He said,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: you told him the exact opposite of what our finding work.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: We could have raised your hand and stuffed anytime, sir.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I just felt like a complete as.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: My gosh, I remember this.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Adam, don't do.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: That, Adam, don't don't make stuff up. Well here's what
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: they look like, an idiot, and you know what, you
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: can block.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: It out, but I'll tell you what the real answer is.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: And those in those situations when you get asked the
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: question of like, you know things that you don't know
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: about is be ready with research places, be ready with sources.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: To send people to. Yeah, very fair. That's like, hey,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I actually don't know that I'm doing the presentation.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: But I don't know that. But I tell you who
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: does know that? Doctor so and so and so and
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: so over at www dot go fuck yourself dot com. Yeah,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: and the other thing too, give them the real web
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: addressed though, don't use that one hard disagree, No, I
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: think I mean. The good thing. The important thing with
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: any good research paper that you write is in every
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: paper you have to identify your limitations. Right, So here
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: are the limitations of our studies. These are the things
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: that we couldn't test for. If you have a really
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: solid understanding of that piece of your research, I think
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: that goes a long way because then, like what Jacob says,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: you know, like you don't understand your parameters. Yeah, you
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: don't have to say like I don't know. You can
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: actually say, well, that was outside the parameters of our research,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: and you know we're looking at this. That is something
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: we're interested in looking at, but we didn't you know whatever,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: for whatever reason we're able to look into it. That
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: is a perfectly reasonable answer. Honestly, here's the thing. Like
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: I didn't I thought I could just fake it. I know.
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: It is not the same when you're up there and
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: they ask you something. Everyone's staring at you.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Like, practice it, yeah, yeah, yeah, practice practice the public
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: speaking part. Get in front of a mirror, have your notes,
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: take notes, put notes down. You're gonna forget things if
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: you don't have the notes. Yeah, So get in front
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: of a mirror, do that. If you want to do
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: it in front of a friend, do it in front
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: of a friend or loved one or anything like that.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: The other thing is whatever that like, I don't know
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: what this environment is. I don't know fuck all about
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: presenting master's thesis and everything else, but it's an educational environment,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: an academic environment. Yeah. All of these people that you're
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: presenting to have presented their their materials to other people.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And they did it when they were young. They did
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: it when they they did it, they did what you're doing.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: They get it. Especially this is an audience that is like,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: you're not going to have a more compassionate audience because
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: you know for sure that everybody in the audience, or
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: virtually everybody in the audience has gone through what you're
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: going through. And uh, I'll just tell you, nobody in
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: academia is good at public speaking. The best public speaker
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: you know in academia is not a good public speaker.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: You're fine, Yeah, yeah, they're performers at public.
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: Speaking Neil, Yes, yes exactly.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I got the people are actually good
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: at it, like that's what they do. What they're not
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: they're not researching and like, oh this researcher happens to
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: be a fantastic public speaker as well. Like, no, they're
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: doing they're doing all of it. More people are going
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: to be rooting for you at these conferences than rooting
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: against you. So I think that's the other thing that
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: I think is everybody wants you to win on this. Yeah,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: like everybody just benefits if you win. They all want
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: you to They're all going to be there supporting you, truly,
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: like everybody is just even if it's like if I
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: just walked in and watched your presentation, it doesn't affect
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: me at all. My day is just better if the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: presentation is good. Like everybody there is just going to
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: root for you.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I also I don't know if you can be part
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: of a team as well, but that's sometimes helpful. So
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: even if you can't think of something on the spot,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: you've got other people there, you know. With pod therapy,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: that's the nice thing is like, I you know, if
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: if a question comes up, hypothetically if we did a
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: live show, which we did once.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the more we did a live.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Show, you know, and oh, I mean like way before.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Oh y'all did a live show show people, Oh my gosh, that's.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: What it was just Jim and myself. Yeah, And like,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you know, when when questions come up, sometimes it's nice
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: to have a team. Then you kind of you feel
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: a little bit more relaxed, like the pressure is not
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: just like I can't think of what say. Then somebody
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: else says something like, oh, yeah, I can add to that,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: because this is the thing that you know, I remember.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: I think it's important too if you don't have a
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: team and it is just you up there to remember.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: I feel like Jacob was kind of hinting towards this.
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: Most people are kind of there one to just hear
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: what you're going to share about. They're interested in the outcome.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: They may ask questions, like we said earlier, and you
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: may have a good answer for that. If you don't,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: I like, I actually really like the idea of sending
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: them to the research or saying, hey, that's kind of
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: like outside of what we studied and just keeping it
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: very vague, like that nobody's going to keep pressing you
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: and like pushing on that. But I think remembering that
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: people are there from a neutral position. They your title
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: of your paper presenting or the researcher presenting probably caught
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: their eye or their interests, like the gambling thing that
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, that sounds interesting, Like I wonder what
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: he found out, So they're going to just hear that info.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: It's not really about you.
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: I think sometimes we think when we're public speaking, everybody
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: is just uh, what's the word, like dissecting us up
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: there focused, Yeah, like every little thing, and they're not.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: They just want to hear what you're sharing. And maybe
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: they're going to watch your slides you present. That's where
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: most of their focus is going to be. They're not
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: watching you. I think it's important to remember that no
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: one's watching me, and.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: At least forty percent of the people are making plans
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: for lunch.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: They're looking at their phone, they're doing what you are
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: just there. Yeah, exactly like I think reminding ourselves when
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: we are up there and there's a spotlight on us,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: it feels like everyone one in the room is looking
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: at us, but kind of reminding yourself not everyone in
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: here is even looking at me. I'm just neutrally here
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: presenting this information.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It sometimes helps take that pressure off
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: That may be the difference in performers, because the assumption, honestly,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: for performers is no matter how many people are on stage,
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: everybody's looking at me.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you always have to assume that everybody's looking at me, which.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Kind of makes sense if that's your job.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: It's like because then if one thing goes wrong, they
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: will be looking at you like but yeah, or if
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: you're doing something unique interesting.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: So now I have to hear what was this research
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: that you presented?
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: No, I can't even remember. I could probably go figure
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: it out. I have a little poster board rolled up somewhere.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: I know Peter has one too.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: With the Circus Act that when he's trying to put
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: together I know.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I want to say it had to do with religion.
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: It was like religion, something with religion, because we went
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: to religious school.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: But I'll have to go dig it up.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: But I actually I should not share the story, probably
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: for this author. But I feel like I remember getting
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: off off the against stage that was not really stage,
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: just the front of the room with like the twenty
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: people in the audience, and there was one person who
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: like kept asking questions. And I was like, I'm sure
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: one person in there, one guy chased you down, not
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: but they just kept like but came over to you
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: after the after the presentation, like in front of everyone,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: like they're raising their hand like here's my question, and
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: when I like didn't know or didn't know exactly how
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: to answer it, then they continued to press like they
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: were kind of an asshole. And afterwards my professor was like,
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: I'm so sorry.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: That person is like a dig Basically it was our
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: social site, professor.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I mean I've kind of done that. No, I haven't
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: actually done that. I've wanted to do that.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: You know what I made it through. I suppressed it.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: You can't too, Adam, You're going to great.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I mean I believe I could completely derail any presentation
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: with a few questions. Yeah, like I didn't want to
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: do it.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Maybe they were trying to do that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: No, but like so anyway, now there's what happened. Okay.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: It was I was at a gambling conference and somebody
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: was talking about treatment planning. Okay, all right, yeah, we
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: got golf. I started talking about about smart goals and like,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: smart goals are terrible, they're really not good, and you
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: shouldn't do this. And then he's like and then he's like, here,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: so so here's some examples. Here's a smart goal and
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: this is why it sucks. And then here's here's a
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: better way to set a goal and looking for But
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: like what he the examples he came up with were
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: smart goals, Like they didn't meet the acronym. So it's
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: like he's presenting stuff. He's presenting his straw man argument
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: like this, I've got a cow milking machine here, and
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you want to use this cow milking machine. You see
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: if I come over here and just grab this cow
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: and shake it, no milk comes out of it. That's
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: why this cow milking machine. Milk comes right on out exactly. Yeah. Oh, godfathers,
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: that's rough. But those are adam, those are exceptions. I
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: think they are. How on stage with you at y Yeah,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: couldn't if you milk, it couldn't hurt. Yeah, practice everything.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: You can take notes, go through your notes if you have,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: if you have like power point or something like that,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: practice it with the PowerPoint. Practice like actually pointing at it,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: doing things like that, don't sweat it, don't don't be
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: don't blow it.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Up into something that it's not. It's just talking. It's
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: just you talking in front of your peers. And after
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: you say I don't know for the first time, it
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: gets a lot easier.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, said earlier, you say that that was actually outside
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: of the scope of what I was doing on this.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: That's I wish I would have said that. Then they
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: can just drop it. They're like, oh, okay, you don't know.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: And if they don't, then they look like an asshole.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: If you say that two or three times in a row.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: That was outside of the realm of what we were
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: studying on this, then at some.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Point Yeah, because that's what happened afterwards, like that dude
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: was an asshole.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, maybe you should read the article.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just take that paper home with you, sir, Good.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: Luck, Adam, tell us how it goes. Check in with us. Uh, yeah,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: report back.
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: Nobody loves not very many people, I should say, love
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: public speaking.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I was in a class in college, like a for
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: for my theater degree. I had to take a like
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: a basic public speaking class where I was just in
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: with your business majors and things like that, and yeah,
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: it was it's it's the only time in my academic
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: life that I ever felt like a fucking superhero. Yeah,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: I was like, what do you what do you leave?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: This is a class like stuttering, you're up there, I
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: was in theater.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: What is Yeah, I was like, Oh, this isn't this
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: is not this is not a thing that everybody just does.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: I do have to say. I had my gen cite professor.
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: On the other hand, he had us do a presentation
• 19:59
  Speaker 4: front of our class. Was actually had more people probably
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: than my research presentation. There's like seventy people in this class.
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: But to present on your your psychology thing you were
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: supposed to research. He said, all right, I'm gonna you know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: it's basically like do you know what you're talking about?
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: So he would listen. But he did say every time
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: you say or maybe.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Like like a verbal film, a verbal.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Filler of any kind, I'm going to put a tally mark.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: And it was like every ten of those I take
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: off a point or something like that, Like he just
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: paid attention to.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Oh you you just made like a third of our
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: listeners just hate right there.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That was Jim.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: But I literally, uh, you know, when I was working
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: for the insurance company, we'd have to present these like
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: members to our doctor. And I counted only because she
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: said it so many times. Then I started listening to it,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: and I got my little tally marker out because these
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: are virtual. I'm not in front of her. I'm like listening.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: If you start listening for him, Oh my gosh, some people,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: you really notice.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: The one member she presented wasn't even all the people.
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: One member forty times she said in a presentation. And
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: I mean we're talking like a five minute or less
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: like presentation, Like.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: But I just couldn't help it. I was like, after ten,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta start.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: In the early days of pod therapy, we would go
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: through and we would delete all of the sounds and
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: we stopped doing that. We didn't involve me. Yeah we did.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: We didn't make that. Yeah how long?
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: How many did you care?
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: We probably did that, I'd say for a year, like
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: oh but like in an episode, so many, yeah, all
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: over all over, Okay, Yeah, it's easier to do that
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: than just not do it. Huh, yeah, I mean it
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: was yeah, yeah, I mean we would record for an
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: hour and a half and by the time we were done,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: that's an hour episode. It's just a half an hour.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Right, best of luck to you, Adam, and yeah, please
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: do report back in. We're gonna tell you a quick
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: break and when we come back, we're gonna talk about
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: supporting my spouse even when their family is being kind
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: of an asshole.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: You are listening to pod therapy. Today's episode is brought
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to you by Judy Schneider, Leon kassav Carolyn Albert, Sammy Scoop,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Sarah Smith, Mike elm, Darren Cunningham, Brady Malaychak, Max the Gender,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Scoop Elli, O'Dare Amy Ardvark and Edgar Allen ho And
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: if you'd like to sponsor the show, become a therap
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: producer patreons dot com slash therapy. All right, we got
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: some trivia. This will look out in honor of uh
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: the second of July, okay, which comes right before the
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: fourth of July. Yeah, two days before. I don't know
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: if that's right. We'll do math.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: You do the math, yeah, check that and.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Get back to you. Whitney, Yes, which president was born?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Gosh on the fourth of July.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Will Smith, Jimmy Carter no answer, Yes you do.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: You're gonna want options Calvin Coolidge, Teddy Roosevelt, James Monroe
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: or Herbert Hoover.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: H Teddy Roosevelt.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: No, it feels like it should be Teddy Rose.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: American.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm surprised you didn't go to U like the
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: signs of the zodiac and be like Teddy Roosevelt sanitarius today.
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know the president's He definitely is not
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: a cancer, so yeah, I probably should have gone that route.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Let's try Hoover.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: No, Coolidge was that one of them?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: It was Coolidge? Point goes to Nick. Okay, Jacob who
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: was the only person to sign the Declaration of Independence
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: on July fourth, seventeen seventy six. Madison final answer, Yes.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: No, I was trolling them. What are the options?
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson, Charles Thompson or Benjamin Franklin Jeffers No,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: point goes to Nick. It was John Hancock, it was Acock.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: It was the obvious one.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is the real trivia question. I've been I've
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: been listening to a lot of stuff about this lately,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: being the two hundred and fiftieth centennial or not centennial,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: but that anniversary. Yeah, when did Like what do we
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: celebrate on July fourth? We celebrate the decoration of independence?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Independence Day? So where did the country start? I'm gonna
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: guess eighteen seventy Uh huh.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: Oh wait are we talking years or days? Are you saying, like,
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: why is the day July fourth?
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: No? No, like the day? When did it? Because I'm
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: a federal holiday.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: No?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: No, No, It's I'm asking deeper. I'm asking a deeper question,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: like how long has this country actually been here? Oh?
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Because it wasn't really on the fourth.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: Of sixteen, right, Yeah, And they were, well, for instance,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: what year did George Washington start being president?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: That was, uh, it wasn't until seventeen seventy nine. I
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: think seventeen eighty nine, eighty nine, it was thirteen years
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: after the decoration. That's exactly right. It's all kinds of shit,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Like it's that thirteen years is really fascinating, really, Like
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: it's That's what I've been reading up on the last
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: few months, is just reading up on little tidbits of
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: history from that thirteen year period, and like it's some
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: neat stuff. I'll bet it ran better, Cohen, the country
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: ran better. Well, yes and no. I mean, for one thing,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: there were thirteen states, yeah, a lot smaller, so the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: states were all pretty much independent. The states were not
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: pretty much independent.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: They were like in the Declaration of Independence, it says
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: these thirteen United States of America. Yeah, thirteen is obviously
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: a number. Yeah, unined it the word united in that sentence.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Is that a proper uh noun? Or is that a adjective?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: That's an adjective?
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: I guess, well, it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Depends on if it's capitalized. Yeah, okay, it is not.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the thirteen United States of America is a proper noun.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: States of America is the proper noun in the Declaration
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: of Independence?
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Oh, the states is still capitalized.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: Is like, it's weird, it's not. I see why people
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: take off and go conspiratorial on this stuff. I really do,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: because it is. It's so intricate and not extraordinarily well recorded.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Because it's just like this guy in Boston wrote it
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: down one time.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like we take it.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like the Bible, right, and like one congress
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: person or that at that point, one congressman from each
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: from each state.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, Senate and Congress couldn't levy taxes. Congress couldn't
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: do the thing that they can do now, and there
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: was something they specifically could not do. Like it's it's weird,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: crazy stuff.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that is very interesting. I bet that is a
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: dark hole or like a black hole to go down,
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: like it's.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Like that thirteen years Is it a country? Oh yeah,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: kind of not in a lot of ways, kind of not.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Just floating around and that something sticks.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like more like the old Roman city states almost. Yeah, yeah,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: like yeah, here's just like a little.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Cluster, a little cluster.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is just we call it Massachusetts. I here
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: I was reading about how Salem was much bigger before
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: and the after the witch trial stuff, which was only
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: one year. Apparently in their history, a lot of the
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: surrounding areas like villages and towns took Salem off of
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: their title because they did not want to be associated
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: with the witch trials. But now ironically, like it's a
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: huge cash cowdily go visit Salem and all that, and
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: so now they're like, oh, well, this one little town
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: that's like yes.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: They would move to Salem to it's so fucking cute.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, people are really into the witch trials
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: and accidentally go to Oregon. It's not zero. There's got
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: to be a few people. I'm very, very disappointed they
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: would tie a witch to one of these trees. How
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: long did that take?
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: My god?
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Very Cool'd see we got one in here. Supporting my
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: spouse through family neglect. Hi, friends, my spouse and I
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: have been married for a couple of years. Throughout their life,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: they have never really felt valued, seen, or prioritized by
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: their biological family. This would become incredibly painful around our wedding,
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: where multiple family members demonstrated a profound lack of consideration,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: consideration for milestones, or accountability for their actions. Our anniversary
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: is particularly difficult for them because they are reminded about
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: how our wedding didn't go the way they planned. I
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: won't go into details, but let's just say we spent
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: the days immediately following our wedding taking care of a
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: selfish relative of theirs who neglected their health. YIESH I've
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: gotten over it, but my spouse is holding onto deep
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: pain and resentment.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, somebody focks up your wedding.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: That's a deep yeah, I get it.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Like there were people who were assholes at my wedding,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Like you're not really like you're not really fucking up
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: my wedding. Jay's still not thrilled with them.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Right still remember, yeah, never forget.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: That's it. That's it.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: This is incredibly This is incredibly painful for me to see,
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: since I want to remember our wedding for all the
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: joy it brought up. Yes, it is certainly causing friction
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: between us because of a lifetime of this treatment like this,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: my spouse often struggles with feelings of unworthiness, even choosing
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: to skip traditional celebrations because they didn't feel like they
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: are deserved.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It breaks my heart.
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: To see them carry this pain and anguish. While I
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: know I cannot change the past or fix their family's behavior,
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: I want to ensure that they feel entirely valued, seen,
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: and secure with me. My spouse is currently in therapy,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: but as their partner, what can I do on a
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: daily basis to help them feel deeply valued in the
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: face of these past injustices. How can I best support
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: their healing process without overstepping or trying to quote unquote
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: fix things that I can't control. Read my shitty in laws,
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: thanks for everything. That's not a spouse.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: That's too bad.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: I know, you're definitely on the right track with acknowledging,
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: not overstepping and trying to fix things. You know, that
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: obviously is where the first place that my mind went.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: So that your spouse is already in therapy, it just
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: takes that option away from a sad I.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Know, and everything right, great, let's uh, let's.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Scrap this one. Let's just go to a different letter.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I think that's the hard to say.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: It's so hard to see our loved ones like in
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: pain or frustrated and man like Jacob said, to have
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: people disrupting your wedding and it being your in laws.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: That's why probably your spouse is more upset than you
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: or you know, is feeling that heavier than you are. God,
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: that is so frustrating. And how do you set boundaries
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: for something that is like already happened. You know, that's
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: the tough part. The event has already occurred.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: It needs like what what you want? What you want
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: to happen is you want your in laws to grow
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: up and be respectful and acknowledge perhaps a past misstep
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: or two and apologize, but more importantly to change the
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: behavior going forward.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the ones do that.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: I know if you live in that space, oh my gosh,
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: it will it will wreck you emotionally if you live
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: in the like what should my in law or you know,
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: my parents be doing? As as an adult child, like, man,
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: you will go crazy in that space.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, as an individual currently planning.
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: A wedding, what's going to What can I do to
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: show up and fuck your shit up?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, don't even have listeners? There's you hit a Patreon level.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I will do whatever you want me to do. At
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: Nick's wedding, Laura was very specific. She's like, you can
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: invite two out of the three. Oh to you, I
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: don't care which, but you can't have all three of them,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: so you got to pick.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: This is actually your children, choose your two favorites.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: This has worked out perfectly. I will bow out. Uh no.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: But like it's one of those things where it's like
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: kind of explaining to Laura because you know, you're planning
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: things and the writer talks about like how the wedding
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: didn't go as they had planned, and it's sounded like
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: they were saying the wedding didn't go as the family.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Had It was kind of like, why do you care
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: if they planned?
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah? But like that's the thing I was kind of
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: explaining to Laura is like you have to go into
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: this with the understanding that something is not going to
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: go as planned and yeah, and you have to just
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: embrace that, you know that, Like and you kind of
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: have you you think of it as in like, oh,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: and we're going to have a great story to tell later.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: The groom, yeah, pretty much. Yeah, the groom was not ready.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: Uh, just getting up.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Together. But there's always something like you know, but like
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: as I'm thinking this, I'm thinking of something like you know,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the flower girl was didn't want to do it, cry
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: like stuff like that. You can like the DJ was
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: an asshole to my father in law at my wedding.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: That was, Yeah, Like the DJ was an asshole to
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: my father in law and like just a jerk to
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: him for no reason when he was when he was
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: telling him something like just like that's rude, that's it. Yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: But like that all that stuff is different than get
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: into a fight.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, because tell me this when and I don't
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: know what it's like for you both, but for me
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: and for Peter, I think like and I'll.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: Speak on his behalf because that's what I do.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: What we wanted for our wedding. You're thinking about what
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: are my guests going to enjoy or want?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Like, yes, it's what I want, but you.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: Are thinking of your guests like, you know, I don't
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: want shitty cake.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Because we didn't do it at my house exactly exactly.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: So I think that is what feels maybe like the
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: gut punch, because deep down we're hosting an event that
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: you're inviting people to be because you want them to
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: enjoy it. And when it's somebody as close as your
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: in laws or again for your spouse, it's his family,
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: when they are not enjoying it, it almost like feels
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: like a little knife twisting. It's just like a little
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: you know, right in your gut.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: I'm doing all of this.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: This is a big day for me, and you can't
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: even just enjoy yourself correct.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: What's even? Yeah, Laura had this experience at a friend's
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: wedding recently that we went to where she just started
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: getting really uncomfortable and anxious because she was worried that
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: other people at this other person's wedding weren't having a
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: good time, you know, kind of like Laura was, Yes,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: it's like more people should be dancing like we more.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like they got this DJ and this
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: dance floor. No one's using this. When I say that
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Laura needs to drink.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: More, that's advanced.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Settle down, La drink. But like I totally get that
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: because it's it's kind of this feeling of like, you know,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: you you want everybody to have a good time, You
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: want them to have fun and you want to go perfectly,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: and if you perceive that they're not, then it becomes
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: like a personal But.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: Honestly, you also at your weddings, you know, just just
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: my opinion, if you're throwing a wedding, you want to
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: have people like Laura at that wedding because they will
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: fix things for you before things get out of hand. Yes,
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: like some of those family members, like you have those
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: couple of cousins that are always there for you, Like
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: you want them there because like they're gonna take care
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: of shit.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I do agree.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: That is kind of nice to like, oh, at this table,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have enough seats at it. Cousin Roy, he's
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: in care of it. Yeah, yeah, he's on it.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Gosh.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: As far as how you feel after the event, I mean,
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: I think going back my only Like I guess advice
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: is going back into you are not responsible for other
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: people's enjoyment. I think if you had the wedding that
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: you both wanted and enjoyed, I think really trying to
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: let go of feeling that responsibility for other people's enjoyment
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: or their complaints or anything the negatives or the positives.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Did you get what you wanted out of their experience?
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: And if they did not, I think you have to
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: decide what you want to do in the future. We
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: can't change the past. You can't change how things went
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: at the wedding and their response to that. But what
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: can you do in the future, Because I think Nick
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: said this is for the best prediction of future behavior's
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: past behavior typically, So kind of prepare yourself. What's the
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: next event that you think you may end up with
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: your family is at a holiday? You know, what are
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: you going to decide to do going into that holiday?
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: To make sure you yourself are taken care of, You
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: kind of have to be a little more selfish going forward.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: It sounds like because your family is not going to
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: think of you.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: So and how the writer deals with their spouse, So
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: spouse has felt unseen unprioritized in their biological family. Yeah,
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: the writer seems like, uh, this, you're doing awesome an
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: a spouse to just even be aware of this and
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: to just be making an effort to try to ensure
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: that your spouse feels this way. I'm gonna be really
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: honest with you. I feel like a not a spouse.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: It's kind of brown nosing here a little bit, just
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: looking for just looking for Yeah, I think that's I
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: think a good job at a pat on the back is
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: all a not a spouse is looking for here, not
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: a spouse. You're clearly doing everything you need to be doing.
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: You're perfect. I don't know what else to tell you. You're fantastic. Yeah,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: well it's not. If that's what you're looking for, you
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: got it. Maybe we shouldn't draw attention to it. Then.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: No, I think that's kind of underrated to like being
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: that person for your spouse, Uh, over over years, I
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: mean if they struggle with that and you have a
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: supportive partner, I mean I don't. I think it's hard
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: to measure how far that goes and it really.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I think I think the over years part is important,
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: and like setting setting that new home standard. Yes, saying this,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: this is what life, yeah is, this is this is your.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Love and support and everything, and like, this is just
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: what we're going to do this, this is what it's
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: going to be going forward.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and if you think about it, like, I
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: don't know how long these two have been together. I
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: don't know if you said that, but like, is it
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: less than eighteen years that they've been together? Because if so,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: like your spou PLA's had eighteen years of perfecting this behavior, yes,
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: of really rooting and like and hardwiring this way of
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: thinking and this belief system. So don't feel like if
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: you're not seeing changes in a couple of years that
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: it's not working, because it's going to take just as
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: long to undo this as it to create it. So
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I think you're doing a great job, and I think
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: you should definitely, you know, just do your best to
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: try to you know, continue to show that they're valued
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and that you support them.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Like you see them.
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know they aren't feeling seen by your family,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: by their family, you're the one seeing them. I think
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: that goes a really long way, and you won't necessarily
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: see that result quickly or very very clearly right away,
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: but it does. I've seen that with couples working with
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: one partner, you know, seeing how that affects them in
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: a positive way.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: I think the best thing that you can be is consistent. Yes,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: kind of like it reminds me of like, yeah, we
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: worked with adolescents, right, Whitney and I, and it's like
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: and Jacob and thank you, different way in different ways,
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: but I think it worked. But I think like the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: most important thing that I took from working with adolescence
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: is consistency because it's the thing that they were lacking
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: in their life.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: And you're not going to see the result right away.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And you're consistent, you're consistent and you're
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: thinking like this is not working, this is not working,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: this is not working, but you stick with it because
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: it's not the it's not like I did this behavior
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: and then that creates this other behavior. Right, it's I've
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: done this behavior for three years and now Yeah, it's
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: it's it's the consistency that causes the change. You're creating
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: an expectation, yes, and it takes a minute to do that, yes,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, I think an a spouse, I think
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: you're doing a great job. It's it's frustrating. In the meantime,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: don't neglect yourself. Make sure that you know, because I
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: would hate for you to devote your entire life to
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: I need to make sure that my partner feels deeply valued. Yes,
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: that's important, and you need to feel valued as well.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: That's great, I think. Yeah, you need to find some
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: way yourself that you can be able to build that
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: support and have those outlets for yourself. Yeah.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I like that that they're in in therapy themselves too.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and maybe maybe see if you can maybe
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: ask if you could sit in on a session. Yeah. Honestly,
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: you know, when you're talking about, like, what's the best
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: way to support my spouse, sometimes the best way is
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: ask the spouse is therapist. Yeah, what is the best way? Yeah,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: you could sit on a session and ask that question.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: That'd be that that might be really nice. Yeah, that'd
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: probably be more useful than what we can tell you. Yeah.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: I can't see how it could be less. Yeah, thank
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: you for writing it. Yeah, Yeah, let's do it. We're
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: gonna take you.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: A quick break and when we come back, we're going
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: to talk about finding religion.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: You're listening to pod therapy. Yes, Today's episode is brought
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: to you by Judy Schneider, Leon Kassav, Carol and Albert
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Samy Scoop, Sarah Smith, Mike Hilm, Darreny Cunningham, Rating, Malay
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Check Max the Gender Scoop Eli O'Dare, Amy, Ardberg and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Edgar Allen. Oh, and if you like to become a
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: therap producer, head on over to patreon dot com slash
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: therapy and sign up. Which signer of the declaration was
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: the oldest your mom? Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams, Roger Sherman, John.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Hancock, Ben Franklin, Yes, all.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Right, bonus points. How old was he?
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: He was thirty.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was saying it.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I got really yeah, it's like it's going to be
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: shockingly young.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which, honestly, seventy is the oldest.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, all right, I've read I don't know how
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: true it is. Somebody somebody might correct me. I've read
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: that the life expectancy thing like people live longer. Now,
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: it's not really that people live longer, it's that less
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: children die. Yeah, Okay, it's like the average lifespan goes
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: up because it's fewer child deaths, not because people are living.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, necessarily longer.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: In general, I think you're on well, I believe you.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true or not, but I've
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: been told that, and like it seems reasonable.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: I thought about this visiting in Boston and Salem because
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: there were tons of stories and you'd see on gravestones
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: people were living to like seventy eighty plus years old,
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: and I'm like, wow, is that it doesn't seem that unique.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: If they'd live past thirty, yeah, or in the past three.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: Probably yes, yeah, if you didn't die from disease, then
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: you were making it to eighty. I was like, all right,
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: it surprised me, so I think you're onto something.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe. All right, Jacob, which state was the last of
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: the original thirteen colonies to ratify the US Constitution? Gosh,
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: this is like, are you smarter than a fifthe I definitely,
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I definitely know this. This is in my head somewhere.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Give me the options. Okay, there's thirteen of them. Virginia,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Rhode Island, New York, or North Carolina. Rhode Island is
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: is what was in my head. I'll say Rhode Island correct,
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: all right, Wow, I guess that that was my guess
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: All right, we got here, come to Jesus moment. I
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: don't know if this is actually about religion or not.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: Saw the title of the leather.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Hi everyone, I am at a loss and I don't
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: know why I'm writing this. I just need to let
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: it all out. I'm not much of a religious person,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: but my partner is. This past Sunday, we end up
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: visiting his church, which we do every month or so.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: As the sermon was getting started, the pastor was doing
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: his usual crowd work thank you, saying things like after
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: something obvious or I know, late on today's topic. I
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: mentally rolled my eyes and thought, here we go again.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: But then the sermon turned to rest, not just physical rest,
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: but rest for your soul.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: He talked about how we do all.
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: These things to make ourselves feel comfortable for fresh or okay,
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: but more often than not, those things don't really work.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: He said that true rest only comes through Jesus, and
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: he kept going on from there. Sorry, I can't read
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: that without saying it that way. The true rest, it
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: only comes through jess Jesus.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: You are from the South.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: That I can't. I cannot, Oh I could do it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: I can just give me a sermon and I can
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: just do it. I can just do the thing.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: I can't wholly explain it, but that hit me like
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: a bag of bricks. I just started crying. My substance
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: use has gone back and forth, and right now I'm
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: coming out of a pretty severe binge. My doctor recently
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: told me that my liver is going sideways. I work
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: three jobs, I'm getting my doctorate, and man, I am
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: just tired. I am so tired. Tired of waking up hungover,
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: Tired of using for reasons I convinced myself or necessary,
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: Tired of working my ass off and trying to balance
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: every piece of my family life. Tired of trying to
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: hold everything together while feeling like I'm coming apart. I've
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: signed up to an attend and I've signed up to
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: attend an addictions meeting at the church, but I'm not
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: sure if I'll attend. I've got to be honest. If
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: step one is me relinquishing my power to Jesus or whatever,
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: it's going to be a non starter. If I'm remembering correctly.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: There were some pretty strong words said about this in
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: a recent episode.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah it's true.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: We just talked about this not too long ago, something
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: like the religious aspects shouldn't matter. Sure, that's maybe an oversimplification,
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: but bottom line, if it's your health versus uh, dealing
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: with it in a religious way, would prefer your health
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: get better if those are the only two options. But seriously,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: what am I to do when the first step is
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: doing something that I don't believe?
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Him?
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Why would a religiously prepared, propelled program want someone there
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: who isn't engaging with it properly? Thank you for your thoughts,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: he him.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, I love this one. I do too. Yeah. Uh,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: where do you want to start? Let's let's actually start
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: at the end. Let's start with our our our take
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: on twelve steps self help.
• 47:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, a little refresher stuff like that. What if it's
• 47:49
  Speaker 4: at the church, Yeah.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: So at the church, it's going to have probably a
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: little bit more of as more like. But also there
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: are churches that just let people just help. Definitely churches
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: they just use there that just give their space. That
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: is definitely true. So I mean I would just say
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: check it out, like, don't decide whether or not to
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: go yet, but decide to check it out, like dig
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: into this program, see what they're all about, See if
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: they are kind of religious propelled or maybe it's just
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: an aspect of it that you can kind of take
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: or leave. And I bet if you just call someone
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: and have a conversation with them, they're going to tell you, uh,
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: like if you call and say, hey, look is it
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: is it really jesusy? Like you know what I mean, Like,
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: just just tell me.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: I'm not religious, but I want to work on this
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: and this is an a this is an avenue that
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: I found and I'm seeing if it's right for me,
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: So just give it to.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Me straight and I and I bet they will. And
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: they're used to helping people. That's what they're That's what
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: they're doing, whether whether it's through a way that really
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: you think it would work for you or not. I
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: mean there, they are there to help people and they're
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: they're there. They are there to help people who are
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: going through what you're going through.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: They just truly believe that that's the best way.
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: Twelve steps, That is us giving benefit of the doubt.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Sure we know. Twelve step meetings to me kind of
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: remind me of like medications and how you figure out
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: what medications do, because like so many medications were created
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: and they worked and they we just started using them,
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: Like we started prescribing them without knowing that we have
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: no idea why this works, but it seems to work.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: And it's not until later that you realize that, like, oh,
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: this is why it worked, not because of this thing
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: that we thought, but because of this other thing. Right,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: And we thought chewing on this just got the bad
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: spirits to leave your body. Yeah, it turns out it's penicillin. Yeah, exactly, exactly,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: case in point. So like that's kind of what I
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: think of when I think of like twelve step programs,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: because like the twelve steps themselves, they're like, oh my god,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: we stumbled across this in this belief system and believing
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: in the higher power, and this is why this works.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: And in reality it's like, well, no, it worked, but
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: it works for different reasons. I think part of just
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and this is what we talked about in that episode.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: So I would encourage you to go back find that
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: episode again and listen to it again, because I think
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: our take on it was a little bit different than
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: the way you had described it, because if I remember correctly,
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: I think our big thing was kind of like Jacob said, like,
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater just
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: kind of be a little bit open minded when it
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: comes to it. But also just the understanding of if
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: they're saying I need to give up power to Jesus Christ,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: what is actually beneficial in that step? And what's actually
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: beneficial in that step is understanding your human limits. That's
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: the key, Like, that's the important piece, whether that be
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: that you are giving up your your power up to
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: this God or that God, or an empty chair in
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: the room or the fellowship itself or whatever the thing is,
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: it's really just understanding your human limits. That's how I
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: take it. And so I think there's some value in that.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: So I wouldn't throw it out completely just yet.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: It's not nothing, I mean, it has it's certainly you know,
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: if you're start looking at numbers of twelve step stuff
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: and everything like it, it's not something that does.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Bang up numbers. You know, nothing in this field does
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: bang up numbers as far as I know, right, Like,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: there's not like a there's not a cure that like
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: people just aren't that they're just ignoring in favor of
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: the twelve step program that has you know, like a
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: whatever success rate that it has. And I don't know
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: the number I don't want to say the number because
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: I know it's not a great number, but I know
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: the number is also disputed because also, like what is success? Right?
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: Do you mean, Nick when you say that? Like being
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: aware of like what you're in control of?
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yeah, like understanding that. Okay. So if we're
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: gonna get specific about like the let's say, let's just
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: pick alcohol, Okay. Yeah, So it's kind of this like
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: understanding that I don't have control over this, which really
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: rubs people the wrong way, right because when the layman
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: hears this, they're like, yeah, you do, you just don't drink, right, Yeah,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: And yes they're not completely wrong, that makes sense. But
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: what it really is is it's a reaction to how
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: your specific body reacts to this substance. Right, I can
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: have an alcoholic drink and I'm going to be done,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: and I may not drink again for another month or
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: two months or whatever, you know. And there's also like,
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: you know, Jacob can eat peanut m and MS and
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: won't break out in hives. You know, other people aren't deadfortunate,
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: That's it, right, And that's really what it comes down to.
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: So it's like, if I compare this to like my
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: peanut allergy. It's not that I'm saying like I am
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: powerless over peanuts. Well I cannot eat the first one, right,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: but I'm power over the effect that it has on me.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: And that's really a better way to describe addiction. I
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: really like this. I have just stumbled across an AI
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: summation of the twelve steps that I think kind of works. Ok,
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: it's not. It's not talking in chek.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: This is just a so steps one through three basically
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: you're looking at acceptance and surrender. So through those steps,
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: the goal is admitting powerlessness, seeking help from a higher power.
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: There's that one, and deciding to change. Okay, but so
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: admitting powerlessness and deciding to change. Fuck, that's it.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: That's it, And why is that important? Because not doing
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: that keeps you stuck? Like those are the people that
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: are just like you know what, No, I think I
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: can do this. I think I can I can still drink,
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I can still do this other all of these things
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: I'll just avoid, you know, the negative consequences. It's clearly
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: saying like, no, you can't. We need to accept that.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: Go on steps four through seven, reflection and transformation, taking
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: a more inventory admitting wrongs and addressing character defects with humility.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: So that makes sense.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: Good Steps eight through ten making amends, listing those harm
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: making direct amends, and maintaining accountability. The maintaining part always
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: the trickiest part. There Steps eleven and twelve, Growth and service,
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: using prayer slash meditation for spiritual growth and carrying this
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: message to others.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: There you go. So I think you can have all
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: of that without the religious components.
• 54:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like if I take the word prayer out of that,
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: then it's not slash meditation, it's just meditation. And if
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: I take the words seeking help from a higher power
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: out of it and just change that to admitting powerlessness,
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: seeking help and deciding to change, you're done.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: There's also another component here, treatment, Yeah, like you don't
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: have to do this the self help method, like that
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: is a method. There's also treatment available, like and it
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to mean different levels. Yeah, it doesn't have
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: to mean residential treatment or in patient treatment.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: But everyone things like go to going for thirty days.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, no, no you don't you could you know
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: you can treat this on an outpatient basis. Yeah, there's
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of So, yeah, there's a lot. You should
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: definitely go in and at minimum get an evaluation. And
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: just because why the fun not right? Yea, why the fun?
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Go in?
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Sit down? It'll take you an hour?
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: Do you go to like I know my answer view,
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: but for you Nick, like, is that going to a
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: hospital or to a residential center to get where are
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: you getting to see?
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: You can? Uh, you can just google in your area
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: substance use treatment programs, okay, yeah, and then you can
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: probably find an outpatient treatment program. Also. I bet if
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: you go to one of those AA meetings, I bet
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: they'll have a lot of that information available at that
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: AA meeting.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: Usually, especially your insurance, if you have insurance in the
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: United States, they'll cover a.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Lot of times. That's covered a lot of times.
• 55:59
  Speaker 4: A lot of that's and there are things like IOP,
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: which is intensive outpatient. There's partial hospitalization, which is not
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: really being hospitalized.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: Just to throw that out there.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's out through the hospital, right, it's yeah, it's
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: day treatment. Yeah, it's like you's.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Few hours a day and go home tonight.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And you said in your letter you're tired,
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: like you're tired of waking up hungover, tired of using
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: all these reasons that you convince yourself or necessarily tired
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: of blah blah blah blah blah. You keep saying you're tired.
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: So if you're really tired, then why not fight this
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: on all fronts? Like you You've got ammunition there through treatments,
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: through self help, like why not use it like fire
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: everything you have at this problem. If you're truly tired
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: with it? You know why not?
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: And it is I was I was talking to a
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: friend today that there is no reason to name, but
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: I was talking to a friend today. I've been talking
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: a lot.
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I've been talking at social about about being and about
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: because I haven't been sleeping. I've been the last several months.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: I have not been sleeping, well, at least not consistently.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: I'm actually kind of in an upswing right now. I'm
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: getting like six and a half hours, which I can
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: function pretty well in six and a half hours, But
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: then on the low end, like when when I cycled
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: back the other way, it'll be like two and a
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: half to three and a half. No, and I and
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: I'll sit on that for like a month and a
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: half or so. Oh no, I.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Would.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: I've been doing like sleep studies and stuff to try
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: to get around all this. Oh my god.
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: And what I was telling my friend today is what
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: I've been discussing with a sleep specialist and what I'll
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: probably I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow as we're recording this,
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: and I bet this will come up as part of
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: that as well, because he's just gotten all the sleep
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: study back as well, so that'll be part of our
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: appointments tomorrow.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: And what everybody is just saying so far is you
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: got a lot going on and you're stressed, and that's
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: kind of it, and you might just need a bit
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: of a reset and you might and I mean, writer,
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: this might be you. I don't know.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: But what my people are telling me and what I
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: was talking to my friend today about is like, not
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: a vacation, but I might just need like a week
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: or two where I'm just at home, not working and
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: you know, all of that stuff gone, and you're going
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: to sleep when I get tired waking up and getting
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: up when I wake up, you feel hungry, that's it,
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: and just letting all of those little clocks and everything
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: try to reset.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: And that is a big ass. That's a big ass
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: for me. That's a big ass for anyone, because a
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: lot of people, I think you definitely fall in this
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: camp too, where if you're home, you have something that
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: you can work on, definitely, and it's really hard to
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: just be home and not do that.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: Or if I'm going to plan to not have anything
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: for a week, then I want to go do something.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, You're like, now I have time to do the
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: things that I've been wanting to.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: If I'm going to take the time, then I want
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: to take the time to go do something fun. I
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: want to I want to go somewhere. I want to
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: go do something.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Those too where I'm like, I could just be home.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: I just want to do nothing.
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: Then when I have nothing, I'm like, well, now I
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: could in mete my friend I haven't seen, and so
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: I'm like, no, just don't do that.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Or I could just go to the club and go
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: on a fucking bender. Now let me ask you this, Jick.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. I know you're not religious either, uh huh.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: But hypothetically I know because it's a big shot and
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: going to going through this month of two to three
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: hours of sleep per night, Uh, would you say you
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: are more or less likely to feel touched by the
• 59:42
  Speaker 2: Holy spirits? On no sleep than you were if you're
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: well rested, because I think if you get delusional, because
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: I think if you were, if you're stressed, like that's
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: what religion like. Yeah, And I don't want to say
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: as like in a in a like a predator kind
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: of like like they're like they're doing it intentionally, like, oh,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: we need we need to get some of these people
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: in here, so they I'm not saying that not none
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: of them are doing there's a number of them who
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: are doing that. But I think, like you know, mole full.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: Stem, there's a reason the Mormons go to a certain
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: part of the world to do their mission trips.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, good point. But I think, yeah, you're definitely
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: more susceptible. And I think you know, like when you
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: go to church and you hear sermon like that and
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: you're in this emotionally stressed, vulnerable state. Yeah, it's three
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: jobs and.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: A doctor is what they're working on. That is insane.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: It's a lot that is insane. Yeah, No, wonder you're drinking.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah they said drinking some sort of sub.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: No wonder you're substancing, substancing. But Jacob kind of actually
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: does bring up a good point, like what is leading
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: to this substance use? Were you using substances when you
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: were like chill, you know, not having stuff you r
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: Is this turning into kind of.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is this is this new? Or is was this
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: like recreational before and it's become coping.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: Now the pers you will ask the question.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Thank you exactly? This is all stuff that I would
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: go through in an assessment, like I'm trying to figure out,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: like I'm looking at patterns. Yeah, you know, so I
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: get some sort of idea of what you say, the
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: liver is going bad livers?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: What made me think, Yeah, that's the liver processes a lot.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Right, And like with all that, I would think because
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: I would think like stimulat I'd be thinking like coke
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 4: I mean, it almost sounds like going to this meeting
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 4: might possibly be training. Great, it'll keep you up for
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: hours so you can get all your stuff done.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: You would not be surprised at how many people drinking
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: alcohol have tried stimulants to get off the alcohol, right really?
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean it tried to make sense. It
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: doesn't make no sense.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's kind of like if Jacob, we're sitting
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: here telling us I'm not sleeping, and he's like, you
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: know what, I'm gonna try ambient right instead of like
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: sleep studies and adjusting, Like what my oh try right?
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: Is there an underlying thing to me not sleeping? Is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: it because I'm stressed? Or is it because I'm actually
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: even when I don't have any stress, I'm still not sleeping.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: You know, then you might want to look into something else.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: But I feel like potentially this going to a meeting,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: it feels like serendipitous a little bit. You're at church,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: they presented you with an opportunity to come to this meeting,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: So like, maybe I'll go to the meeting, but I
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: like what Nick said, maybe just go get assessed and
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: see if there can be a better option. If it is,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: if not, if you you know, I have to pay
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: out a pocket for these services, and you're like, I
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: just can't do it right now. I need I need
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: the AA meetings or the NA meetings, whatever you're choosing
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 4: to go to. Then then yeah, do what you can do.
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: But it seems like maybe getting a more in depth
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 4: assessment or evaluation of what's going on would be helpless.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, large doses of cocaine or chronic use can damage
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: the liver. There you go. So same with meth myth
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: does a lot. Yeah, also will keep you up stimulates.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Right, that is true, Yes, yes it does.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: So probably noticed that in your your dental care as well.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: So you know so, yeah, writer.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: I you know, good question.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean as far as the religious component of it,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember what the question.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Was, Well, like, why why would a religiously propelled program
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: want someone there who isn't engaging with it properly?
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know that they care a lot of Yeah,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of these programs are surprisingly tolerant.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: They want you there, They just want to Yeah.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: I mean from all of the twelve step meetings that
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: I myself have been to. I have and let me
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: tell you, folks, he's been to alcoholic because I used
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: to take all my alliance and so I really honestly
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: have been a ship ton of meetings. I mean, we
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: might have to get Nick to go to a meeting
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: to stop going to all these meetings, an anti meeting meeting. Yeah,
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: there's people all throughout the the U, throughout the continuum
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: of like very religious, strictly religious all the way to
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: you know, not believing anything at all. And everyone in between.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: And for the most part, I have not seen many
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: times in meetings when there's been any kind of pushback.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I can think of individual examples, like individual people, but
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: never entire meetings, you know, like maybe somebody in the
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: group said, well, like no, no, no, well you're you're worshiping
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: the wrong right, like, you know, something stupid like that,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: But that just never happens. As a group, they are
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: surprisingly tolerant of of your beliefs compared to church people
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: in general. Exactly. Yeah, honestly, honestly, going to a meeting
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: is probably where you're going to find the most tolerant
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: people in a church. True.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually true.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: Not even making it. It's people who are there genuinely
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: helping people, yes, yeah, yeah, or he's trying to. Yeah.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: So that's my take on that. But keep us posted,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: keep us updated. I'd like to hear more about this.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: How that goes. Do we take a break, We take
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: a little break, and then we yeah pod therapy, Yeah,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: pod therapy. Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider,
• 1:05:35
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• 1:06:04
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• 1:06:06
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• 1:06:11
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• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: that's not a real email address, but you can make it. Yeah,
• 1:06:19
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• 1:06:21
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• 1:06:23
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• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: And then we can refill this apology section that's always
• 1:06:28
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• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: I gets still an apology section that never gets filled anymore.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: There's like eighty percent of this that we just don't
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of filler.
• 1:06:37
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• 1:06:39
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• 1:06:42
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• 1:06:45
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• 1:06:49
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• 1:07:00
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• 1:07:09
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• 1:07:14
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• 1:07:19
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  Speaker 2: Thanks and we'll see you for the appointments next week,
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  Speaker 2: Doctor Dracob in the his ey see you Bye.