Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Tim Chaffey: Defending God’s Word & Misinterpretations On Genesis, Noah

Transcript

Tim Chaffey: Defending God’s Word & Misinterpretations On Genesis, Noah · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

0:00
Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
0:10
defending biblical Christianity.
0:13
No topic off limits.
0:16
And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
0:20
Welcome to another podcast episode, friends.
0:22
Thank you so much.
0:23
We're talking about good theology and how it can strengthen our defense of God's words
0:30
so needed today, even in the church with a lot of, well, how should I say it?
0:37
Biblical illiteracy seems to be off the charts today.
0:40
Well, we can be better at how we defend the faith and explain and we'll be good librarians.
0:46
But I've got our special guest today, first time on this podcast, Tim Chafee, he's the
0:50
founder of Midwest Apologetics.
0:53
He works as the content manager with the attraction's division of answers in Genesis.
1:00
He's also a great author, he's got many, many books, he's either authored or co-written,
1:05
including the defense of Easter or in defense of Easter, fallen God and cancer, the sons
1:12
of God and the Nephilim, the truth chronicle series, and the remnant trilogy that a lot
1:19
of people know of as, no trilogy.
1:23
We have a lot of great books and good information for the body of Christ, Tim.
1:28
So good to see you.
1:29
Thanks for your time today, brother.
1:30
David, great to see you too.
1:32
Thanks for having me on.
1:33
Well, thank you for your, just your voice and what you've written about and defending
1:38
the faith.
1:39
And of course, you've got a great job, which a lot of people I think are a little jealous
1:42
of.
1:43
Tell us about where your office is, where you work and what you get to do.
1:49
Yeah, I'm very blessed.
1:51
I work with the attractions design team at Answers and Genesis, which means we are the
1:56
team that develops, designs and creates all of the exhibits that you see when you come
2:02
to the Creation Museum or the Ark and Counter.
2:05
The Creation Museum is about five miles away from me right now, and the Ark and Counter
2:09
would be about 35 miles away.
2:11
So I'm not at either place, although I'm usually at each one about once or twice a week,
2:17
but my office is in the design studio that is located in Northern Kentucky.
2:22
And so I'm very blessed.
2:23
I get to interact with a lot of people who are coming from all around the world.
2:27
I've met a family from Malaysia this week that I chatted with for quite a while.
2:31
I've met people from Uganda, from Japan, Korea, Australia, New Zealand, pretty much anywhere
2:36
in the world.
2:37
And they've come to the Ark and I've had a chance to meet them, share the gospel.
2:41
It's just, I'm very, very blessed to do what I do.
2:44
And I don't, even though I work for the design team, I have zero or negative artistic ability.
2:51
God, did not give me any of that.
2:53
But I get to do the research in the writing for the exhibits and I love what I do, love
2:57
the people I work with and just, yeah, I feel very blessed.
3:02
You are.
3:03
And I've been blessed to have Ken Ham on this podcast and what a great man of God, what a
3:08
great, just how he articulates the Biblical worldview in layman's terms and really can reach
3:16
a lot of people the way he does.
3:18
You know what really I appreciated?
3:20
He did this series called Foundations and I thought that was wonderful.
3:25
That's what really got me even more engaged with what you guys are doing.
3:29
And I also appreciate his voice whenever political events, current events, things in America
3:36
happen.
3:37
For example, he spoke about how should Christians view Charlie Kirk's memorial service and things
3:43
like that.
3:44
And he speaks to these issues and he gives Christians just a way to think and approach this from
3:50
a Biblical perspective.
3:52
And Tim, I wasn't going to ask you this, but I'm kind of on that track right now.
3:57
A lot of pastors are not equipping the saints.
4:00
And they are not addressing these things like evil in the world, if God, why evil, things
4:07
like that.
4:08
Just basic things that we should be able to either understand, discern and articulate.
4:13
Would you mind speaking to that for a moment?
4:15
No, I don't mind at all.
4:17
I mean, you mentioned Ken, one of the things he does such a great job of is showing how
4:21
the Bible, particularly Genesis 1 through 11, is relevant to our day.
4:27
And of course, he's from Australia, so he's got that funny accent.
4:30
So maybe people in Northeastern Wisconsin can't understand it.
4:33
I know you go all over the world now, but you and I are Northeastern Wisconsin.
4:37
So I might be speaking more to your people here than he can.
4:42
But it's such an important thing for pastors to do, to help their congregation understand
4:48
that the Bible really does speak to the issues of our day.
4:52
If you look at all of the craziness that's been going on in the last, let's say decade
4:56
or two, where people are really finding what marriage is, well, where do we find the answer
5:00
to that question in the Bible?
5:01
Well, you go right back to the very beginning and God made male and female.
5:05
He made Adam and Eve, and marriage is meant to be one man with one woman for life.
5:10
What about the issue of gender, which has been very confusing for a lot of young people
5:15
in our culture?
5:16
Well, where's the answer to that?
5:17
Well, God made male and female.
5:19
There's two.
5:20
Right back to the early chapter of Genesis, and the other thing I see is, yeah, there are
5:26
a lot of pastors that are unwilling to touch on a lot of those issues, especially, like
5:32
you mentioned, the Odyssey, why they're death and suffering, if God is good.
5:37
Because I think for some people it's complex, especially if you don't take a stand on the
5:43
Bible's foundational book back in Genesis.
5:45
If you go back there, we see the God created a perfect world.
5:48
There was no death disease suffering, and then the reason we have all those things in
5:52
the world is because of our sin, a man wrecked this world.
5:56
But if you're starting from the point of view that many pastors do, that Genesis doesn't
6:00
matter, it's a side issue, or maybe they've already bought into the idea that God used
6:05
evolution in millions and billions of years, then you've got death and suffering in disease
6:09
before God made Adam and Eve, before God called everything very good, and so you have an
6:15
inconsistent message.
6:16
It's just so much better to take God at His word from the very beginning to the very
6:20
end.
6:21
It's so important.
6:22
I really appreciate that emphasis.
6:24
To some it might be redundant, Genesis 1 to 11, Genesis 1 to 11, but it is so important
6:30
because if you get that wrong, and by the way, we are going to talk about a few misinterpretations
6:35
in urban legends that Tim sent me, I thought, well, we've got to mention a couple of these.
6:40
So I want to ask you out in Noah, but before I do that, I want to give your blog site,
6:45
it is midwestapologetics.org, that's midwestapologetics.org slash blog, and you can get some of
6:53
the latest writings from Tim.
6:57
So Noah, you could have written on all kinds of things in Genesis 1 to 11, a Tower of Babel,
7:05
you know, the Garden of Eden, you know, Abraham, you chose Noah and you wrote a trilogy.
7:10
What is called the Remnant Trilogy, book 1, 2, and 3.
7:14
So before I get to what is one of the most common questions you get, what made you decide
7:20
to dive into that topic for those three books?
7:24
Well, as we were building the Ark Encounter, you know, the one responsible for writing the
7:28
content that you read when you go through there on all of the signs, one of our exhibits
7:33
is called Who Was Noah, and how could he build the Ark?
7:35
So I was asked to write a fictional backstory for Noah and his family members that is based
7:41
on the very few details we have about them in Scripture.
7:44
And so I got this idea that maybe Noah was already a shipbuilder, you know, God had already
7:48
been preparing him over the years to do what he was going to do at some point, because
7:52
that's how God often works in our lives.
7:54
Long before we know what we're going to do, God prepares us to do that.
7:58
And when I pitched that idea, several people said, you know, that's a lot of fun.
8:02
You should write a novel about it, and I thought, I don't know, because someday I'm going
8:05
to meet Noah, and I don't want him to get upset with me for the things I did.
8:11
But I was also concerned that people sometimes have a tough time separating fiction from,
8:16
you know, from Scripture, you know, that we fill in so many different details, that's
8:20
where some of these urban legends come from.
8:22
And so if there was a way that I could do it that would drive people back to Scripture
8:26
and help them separate the story, you know, the artistic license that I'm taking with,
8:31
you know, separate that from Scripture, then I would do it.
8:34
And so I figured out a way to do that in a couple of ways and, uh, and liberating that
8:39
trilogy, which has been a lot of fun.
8:41
That's great.
8:42
I love that.
8:43
And Ken would always talk about how we've got sometimes a misinterpretation of Noah thinking
8:49
it's just a story or allegory, whatever, because we see kids' toys with the ark and all
8:54
the animals hanging out, like the ark is not big enough, which leads me to one of the
8:58
most common questions you guys get.
9:01
It took Noah 120 years to build his ark.
9:06
So how long did it take you to build the ark and counter?
9:10
Yeah, we do get that a lot.
9:12
And so I question the, I question the question, where does the Bible say that it took Noah
9:17
120 years, because it doesn't say that there, there is a reference to a 120 year period
9:22
in Genesis 6.3.
9:24
Some people think that that is meant to be a countdown of the flood.
9:28
God scholars would say, no, that's a, uh, God judging mankind.
9:31
It's like a reduction in man's lifespan.
9:33
But either way, nothing there says like Noah started building the ark at that point.
9:37
When God told Noah to build the ark, he said, I'm going to make my covenant with you,
9:41
your wife, your sons, and your sons' wives with you, which means it sounds like the boys
9:45
are already grown up and married when God told Noah to build the ark, which means it
9:49
has to be 100, less than 100 years for him to build the ark, because Noah's oldest son
9:55
was born when Noah was 500, and the flood came 100 years later.
9:58
So you have to allow enough time for the three boys to be born to grow up, to get married,
10:03
and then you can subtract that from the 100 years.
10:05
So we usually say Noah had a maximum build time of about 50 to 75 years.
10:11
It took us two years and two months from the time that we broke ground to the time that
10:14
we opened.
10:16
And I would probably also add that I'm sure you've explained this.
10:20
I know I didn't have the equipment that we have today in modern America, and you know.
10:26
But yeah, we don't know what he had.
10:30
We don't think that he had all the big gas-powered cranes, all those different.
10:35
We don't think he had all of that stuff.
10:37
But if we look at what ancient people were able to do, people that built the great pyramid
10:42
and other things, we marvel at what they could, how ingenious they were, because people
10:46
have been intelligent from the beginning.
10:47
We didn't.
10:48
We're not getting smarter and smarter coming up from the apes.
10:51
We just, man had been intelligent from the beginning.
10:54
We're probably getting dumber, actually.
10:57
So we've been historically.
10:59
Well, yeah, if you look at the government school system too, that's part of that argument.
11:05
I wouldn't even go in there, but yeah, that's for sure.
11:10
You might be old enough to remember Tim when it was Jay Leno that you used to do these
11:15
man-on-the-street interviews, and he would often go to college campuses or college graduation
11:21
ceremonies and ask them basic questions about world history or America, and you're going,
11:26
oh my goodness, these people are graduating and they, so yeah, to prove your leaders of
11:33
America.
11:34
Oh gosh.
11:35
Yeah.
11:36
And this has been going on for decades.
11:37
That's we have the leaders we do now in corporations and Hollywood, but that's for another
11:43
podcast.
11:44
Back to interpretation of misinterpretations.
11:48
What else do you get from Genesis 1 to 11?
11:51
Because you rightly say that there are some, there are some difficulties and some areas
11:56
in Genesis 1 through 11 that biblical creationists don't always get right.
12:02
And then some pastors even misinterpret it.
12:06
And I'd love for you to speak to at least one or two of the big ones.
12:10
Yeah, there's quite a few things going on there.
12:13
I mean, sometimes it's one of the things I've been thinking about lately, it's some
12:16
of the things we get right, but we don't necessarily defend it the best way, but that
12:20
would just a little complicated.
12:21
So let's take one of the ones where maybe we just, maybe we are getting right, or maybe
12:25
we're not.
12:26
Maybe we're just assuming too much of the text, for example, and this one.
12:31
I hope the email you, not me otherwise, there's going to be a lot of emails on this one.
12:36
The Bible never says that Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden in the cool of the
12:41
day.
12:42
We hear that over and over and over again.
12:45
And I've got a blog post on that and I, the amount of vicious responses that I get from
12:52
people, it really is stunning.
12:53
I'm not opposed to the idea that they could have.
12:56
It just never says that it says that after they ate the fruit, they heard the sound of
13:00
the Lord God moving in the garden in the cool of the day is how our English reads it.
13:04
And they hid from him and never said anything about them taking walks in the cool.
13:08
It's just not in there.
13:10
And yet we hear people retell that all the time, a similar one is with Noah building
13:14
in the ark.
13:15
We hear all the time that, you know, he, he's telling people there's going to be a flood
13:19
and it never even rained before.
13:21
And one, where does it ever say it never rained before the flood?
13:24
It says it hadn't rained up until God made man on Genesis 2.5 says that, but it never
13:29
says before the flood there was no rain.
13:31
And it says that then people say, well, everybody was laughing at Noah.
13:35
They were making fun of him.
13:36
And while he was preaching and pleading with them to come on the ark, none of that is in
13:39
the Bible.
13:40
It never says he invited anybody on the ark.
13:42
In fact, God had already told him there's eight people going.
13:45
So why would he start inviting a bunch of other people?
13:48
And it never says they made fun of him, even though that's a very reasonable assumption.
13:52
If there are people around and Noah is a godly man living in a very ungodly world, they
13:58
probably did mock him.
13:59
I think that's a pretty safe assumption, but remember that's what it is.
14:02
It's an assumption.
14:03
The text doesn't say that.
14:05
So we have to learn to separate those two things.
14:06
No matter how reasonable our deductions are, there's still not on the level of scripture.
14:13
So those are some of the things that I like to point out because what it does, it forces
14:17
you to be a Berean.
14:18
And I hope some of the people listening are saying, I'm going to open my Bible right now and
14:21
check what he's saying.
14:22
Good.
14:23
Please do.
14:24
Yes.
14:25
That's what I want you to do.
14:26
Yes.
14:27
And the whole point of that was corruption on the earth and that's a very good point.
14:32
Look for what is specifically stated in context is so important.
14:36
And a lot of these…
14:37
Well, go ahead.
14:38
If I can finish that thought too, the context is so important.
14:42
What we want to do, and I think this is one of the problems, is that we want to make
14:46
every Old Testament passage, like an evangelistic message.
14:51
We want to tie the ark and the flood to the gospel in Jesus Christ, which there are ways
14:57
to do that.
14:59
Because we want to see Noah inviting people on board the ark, because then they could
15:02
be saved, well, from the flood, how does that save them eternally?
15:06
That's not the gospel, but no one is family being on the ark, being spared from the
15:13
flood is a picture of salvation, sure.
15:16
But it's not like a one-to-one correspondence.
15:19
We're never told that all eight people on board were saved individuals, and we're going
15:22
to see them in the New Jerusalem.
15:24
I hope that we do, but that just isn't anything we're not told that in Scripture.
15:30
And so I think we want to see people, we want to know it and invite people on board the
15:33
ark, because then if they believe, they can go on the ark.
15:37
But even if they believed, or does the Bible ever say they get to go on the ark, you know,
15:41
if you share the gospel with somebody in Saudi Arabia today and they have Muslim and
15:45
they get saved, does that mean that God has great plans for their life, and that he
15:50
knows the people, the verse that people quote out of context during my 20-91, I know
15:54
the plans I have for you plans, the props for you plans for you.
15:57
They might die that day.
15:58
He's got great plans and eternally for them, but God never prom, well, since they never,
16:04
there are people in the Bible that are guaranteed to live a certain amount of time, but God
16:08
doesn't promise us a carefree, long life if we are converted.
16:15
And so we just have to be careful with how we, what we're reading into the text.
16:19
That's an excellent point, and I understand how people want to make it something to use
16:24
it for an analogy.
16:26
You can save, you know, like you can feed somebody, but that doesn't give them the bread
16:31
of life or the gospel if you give them food.
16:34
This like saving people from the flood is not saving them eternally as far as salvation
16:39
goes.
16:40
But I want to go to, maybe think about this as you were talking, second Peter 3, that's
16:46
where I don't believe it says it in Genesis, but I could be wrong.
16:49
Second Peter 3 says Noah, a preacher of righteousness, that's where I think a lot of people go, well,
16:55
he must have been preaching the gospel.
16:57
But it's a preacher of righteousness.
16:59
But if you want to comment on that, you can, but the point I wanted to get to was lot.
17:03
It does mention that lot was, oh, godly, and lot was oppressed by the sensual conduct
17:13
of unprincipled men, called lot righteous, and it says verse 8, for by what he saw and
17:20
heard that righteous man while living among them, get this, friends, and we can relate
17:25
to this, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds.
17:33
So Tim, what I want to ask you to speak to is the difference between the days of Noah
17:39
and the days we're living in now, because a lot of people try to make that draw that
17:42
maybe comparison or parallel.
17:45
And part of that was they were carrying on with life as if there wasn't any urgency,
17:50
nothing mattered.
17:51
It wasn't necessarily that they were more evil, correct?
17:55
Yeah, I think that's largely true.
17:58
I mean, yeah, second Peter 2, it talks about Noah being a pro-claimer of preacher of righteousness,
18:04
but we shouldn't think of preacher in the same way that we do today in the sense of Noah
18:08
didn't know the gospel in terms of Jesus dying on the cross for us in, being buried
18:13
in the dead.
18:14
He didn't have that message.
18:16
What he could have told people is to turn from their wicked ways and follow what the
18:20
creator says.
18:22
But he wouldn't have known the full content of the gospel, but the gospel has always been
18:26
about trusting God.
18:27
It's always been about salvation by grace through faith, and we know that he found grace
18:34
in the eyes of the Lord.
18:35
He was a righteous man.
18:37
As far as his days, if you Genesis 6 makes it very clear, the people that they were exceedingly
18:43
wicked, every thought of man's heart was only evil continually, we're told, that God
18:47
was grieved that he had made man.
18:49
The world was filled with violence because of man that it's all flesh had crept at its
18:54
way on the earth.
18:55
We see all three of those phrases in there, it's just a very, very wicked world.
18:59
And then God tells Noah, I've seen that you alone are righteous before me in this generation.
19:03
Can you imagine if you were the only faithful believer in the world, I don't think we're
19:10
at that point.
19:11
I don't think it's quite as wicked as Noah's world was, but what Jesus said in Matthew 24
19:17
when he says of that day and hour, no one knows.
19:19
So for the people that were looking for the rapture of the last couple of days, maybe they
19:23
should read the Bible a little more instead of listening to YouTube videos.
19:27
Exactly.
19:29
And he said, as the day of Noah, we're so also will be the coming of the Son of Man.
19:34
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving
19:37
a marriage until the day that Noah entered the ark.
19:39
And so a lot of people think, oh, our days have to be exactly like what was going on in
19:42
Noah's day.
19:43
It's going to be just like that.
19:44
Well, Jesus is making the comparison that people are going to be going about their daily
19:48
business, not paying attention to the signs of the time, basically, because they're ignoring
19:54
the warning signs.
19:57
And it doesn't mean that every detail has to be exact for the saying that really wasn't
20:00
what he was saying.
20:01
Amen.
20:02
Like the men of Issaqar who had understanding of the times, boy, we need that today.
20:07
We need to discern more discernment in the church, but we're going by really fast today,
20:12
Tim.
20:13
Let's jump to something else.
20:14
Another misinterpretation, dragon or dinosaur, because the word translated as dragon,
20:21
and this is a misinterpretation in the King James version, can refer to dinosaur, but
20:26
as you say, that's not the case.
20:29
Yeah, particularly when we're talking about the old, well, I would say the New Testament
20:32
as well.
20:33
So the Greek were in the New Testament.
20:34
So like in Revelation 12 and Revelation 20, where Satan is called this red dragon that
20:39
John sees in his vision, that's the word dracon in Greek.
20:43
But obviously not meant to be a dinosaur, because he's got seven heads and ten horns
20:46
that, as far as we know, that's not any dinosaur.
20:50
In the Old Testament, there are about 32 uses, yeah, 32, I think it is.
20:56
Uses of the word tonneen with an iron as a nancy ending or tonneen, which is the plural form
21:01
of that previous word, the masculine plural, or the word tonneen with iron ending.
21:08
And a lot of times creationists have conflated all of those terms thinking of the same thing,
21:11
but they're very different.
21:13
The first word tonneen is a serpent.
21:16
It can be, you know, some translations would use the word dragon there, some older ones,
21:21
but it really just has serpentine creatures.
21:23
It's used in parallelism in Hebrew poetry with other types of snakes.
21:27
It's what Aaron's rod became, when he threw it down before Pharaoh, became a serpent,
21:32
then Pharaoh's magicians threw down their rods, and they became tonneen, which is the masculine
21:37
plural of that first word, the word tonneen, which sounds similar in some older Bibles
21:44
was translated the same way, but most of our newer Bibles were translated as jackals
21:48
or wild dogs, and the reason is that's the right way to do it.
21:53
The tonneen is already a masculine plural noun of the singular tonne.
21:58
It refers to some sort of mammal that howls and inhabits wilderness places or abandoned
22:05
places, so it's like a jackal or wild dog.
22:09
So just because we want to see a dinosaur there, as creations, we'd love to have this extra
22:17
biblical evidence that dinosaurs were there at the same time as man, we don't get to change
22:22
the meaning of word, it's just because of what we want it to mean, and we have to allow
22:27
the Bible to be the authority, and what we shouldn't have been expect, you know, sometimes
22:34
people say, why don't I find the word dinosaur in the Bible?
22:37
When is it talking about a group of land reptiles?
22:41
We do have a creature, a singular creature called the behemoth, which a lot of us believe
22:45
was probably some sort of sauropod dinosaur that's mentioned in Job 40, but as far as looking
22:50
for the word dinosaur, well, we shouldn't expect to find it, just like we shouldn't expect
22:53
to find, we don't see the word mammal, it doesn't mean that, it doesn't mean mammals don't
22:58
exist.
23:00
So the other one, and I wasn't going to ask this, but I'm just just trying to follow
23:04
up on some of the, maybe misunderstandings we have about Noah, that one of them is, and
23:11
we can't speak to this now, but one of them is, he went out and gathered all the animals,
23:15
he didn't do that because God called the animals to the ark, but what do we ask?
23:20
Yes, tell us.
23:21
Only in Genesis 620, the animal that come to him, go ahead.
23:25
So people ask this a lot, I'm sure you get this as well.
23:29
How could all those animals fit on the ark and they're thinking, you know, all the different,
23:37
the massive amounts of dogs and all the different tiger, you know, and I know the answer, but
23:43
I know you're good at condensing that for us, talking about kinds.
23:47
So please explain that because people go, yeah, how could all the millions of animals go
23:51
ahead?
23:52
Right.
23:53
Yeah, usually when you hear that, that idea that there were millions of animals and you
23:56
look at, like the, if you had people list them, they would never get that high of a number.
24:01
The journal science said in 2013, there's 1.5 million species on earth today, and then
24:07
they said plus or minus 3 million, but so, but the, so they asked me to, there'd be five
24:16
plus or minus 3 million, but they said we know about 1.5 million that are named, but
24:22
that's including all of the bacteria, one-celled organisms, plant life, that's including all
24:28
of the marine creatures, which, you know, that's where the vast majority of life is on earth,
24:31
that includes 1 million species of insects, and NOAA doesn't have to bring these things.
24:36
When you count the number of animals, NOAA actually has to bring the various land dependent
24:41
species, you're left with about 40,000 species, which is still too high for putting all of them
24:48
on the ark, but you don't have to, NOAA doesn't have to put two tigers and two lions and
24:52
two bobcats and two panthers and two cougars, or anything like, he just needs two members
24:57
of the cat kind, and those other things are post-flood varieties, all those different species
25:02
we just looked at, and the easy way to understand that is if you think about dogs, we have
25:06
colleagues and poodles and chihuahuas and great-dans, these are just different breeds of the common
25:12
dog that have come about in the last two to three hundred years as we're selecting certain
25:16
traits that we want for whatever reason, and then you can also throw into the mixed wolves
25:20
and coyotes and dingos, which we, even though we classify as different species, they're still
25:26
just dogs, and so NOAA just needs two members of the dog kind, and when you start to understand
25:31
that you're left with about 1,400 kinds, which all of them fit nicely on the ark, people say,
25:36
what about like the dinosaurs? Well, you bring the juveniles, I'm six foot eight, David,
25:41
you know I'm a tall guy, I have a tough time fitting in cars, but you know what, when I was 10,
25:46
I fit a lot easier into cars, and the same thing with the larger animals, you bring the juveniles,
25:52
and then they have more years to reproduce after the flood too. Bring the juveniles, the babies,
25:56
the puppies, yeah, great explanation, and I always love the fact that, you know, just people
26:03
miss something so simple about kind, and they just think, well you got to, and then see creatures too,
26:08
you don't need fish on the ark, right? Tim, is your author page on Facebook, does just people just
26:14
look up Tim, Chafee, C-H-A-F-F-E-Y? Yeah, I think it's actually just Facebook.com slash, and then
26:22
I think it's just Tim, Chafee author. Okay, Tim, yeah, you got it, Tim, Chafee author, there it is,
26:27
his author page, you want to get in touch with him and follow Tim there, again, his blog, midwest
26:33
apologetics.org. Brother, final minute, I know we could have said so much more asked you about,
26:39
all kinds of different other questions. What do you have coming up, what things are you working on
26:43
for people that maybe never been down there? Well, the big project we're working on right now,
26:48
maybe some people would recognize the big picture behind me, if you can see what that is, that
26:53
that is a, well it's actually a giant puzzle, 3,000 pieces of modern Jerusalem, what we're doing is
26:59
building a huge model, a first century Jerusalem from the time of Jesus, so we're setting it in
27:05
AD-33 to coincide with the timing of the crucifixion resurrection, well shortly after that, and it will
27:12
be by far the most accurate, most up-to-date research-based model of its kind anywhere in the world.
27:19
We've been working on it for about four years, some of our team members have been, and it is going
27:24
to be, it's going to blow people away, it's going to be so extraordinary. I get super excited about
27:29
it because, one, I love the topic, but just what we get to do, we're going to really help the
27:35
Bible come alive for so many people, especially in the gospel accounts and in Acts, you're going to
27:39
get to see what that place was like that Jesus walked through. I know people always say, hey,
27:44
if you've seen that model in Jerusalem, yeah, I've been there a few times, and I kind of want to say,
27:48
yeah, it's cute, but it is extraordinary, it's a great model, but it's sterile, and I don't
27:53
mean that in a negative way, it's just there's no life, everything made out of the same brick,
27:56
ours is going to be so lifelike down to the, down to the details of which sides of the building
28:02
have the most mold or moss growing on them because of how the sun, and it's just so detailed,
28:08
and yeah, it'll be extraordinary, so a couple years away because it's a huge project, but it's
28:13
a great undertaking though. Tim, thank you so much, Lord willing, we will do this again, so
28:18
many other topics to discuss. Thanks for your time today, brother, good to see you again.
28:22
David, thanks so much, great to see you too. God bless you. Thank you. Friends, God bless you,
28:26
and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.