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Savannah Guthrie Mom Missing: Day 6 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: So the rester note that was distributed to the media
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Speaker 2: did make a demand for five pm today and if
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Speaker 2: a transfer wasn't made then I think our second demand
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Speaker 2: was for next Monday. We're not going to go beyond
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Speaker 2: that with that, what's the rastmom note.
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Speaker 3: The media received the suggestion that time is up for
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Speaker 3: Savannah Guthries's mother, but the PERP issued another ultimatum, another
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Speaker 3: deadline coming up.
0:35
Speaker 1: In two days.
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Speaker 3: Breaking news Savannah Guthries' mother missing day six.
0:42
Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 3: This is Crime Stories and I want to thank you for
0:46
Speaker 3: being with us, with me an all star panel, each
0:49
Speaker 3: one an expert in their own right. Straight out to
0:52
Speaker 3: Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac heart breaking
0:58
Speaker 3: watching Cameron Guthries plea this on the heels of sister Savannah.
1:03
Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, for those of you that
1:05
Speaker 3: have only seen our friends, Savannah guthries agonizing plea for
1:11
Speaker 3: her mother to be brought home, I want you to
1:14
Speaker 3: hear Cameron Guthrie's plea for his mother to be brought home.
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Speaker 4: Listen, this is Cameron Guthrie. I'm speaking for the Guthrie family.
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Speaker 4: Whoever is out there holding our mother, we want to
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Speaker 4: hear from you. We haven't heard anything directly. We need
1:31
Speaker 4: you to reach out and we need a way to
1:33
Speaker 4: communicate with you so we can move forward. But first
1:36
Speaker 4: we have to know that you have our mom. We
1:39
Speaker 4: want to talk to you, and we are waiting for contact.
1:41
Speaker 3: Are they going to have to go old school to
1:44
Speaker 3: find Nancy Guthrie? I'm talking about dogs, drones looking at
1:49
Speaker 3: the area.
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Speaker 1: How far could she have gotten?
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Speaker 3: Are there two or more people involved this? As many
1:57
Speaker 3: speculate the purp is within or close to the family.
2:02
Speaker 1: But I just want to tell you.
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Speaker 3: Let me go straight out to you, Dave Mac. I
2:06
Speaker 3: find it very very hard to believe. Let's see a
2:10
Speaker 3: shot of Savannah with sister Annie and brother Cameron as
2:13
Speaker 3: they were making that plea. I find it very difficult
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Speaker 3: to believe, Dave Mack, that the brother and the sister
2:22
Speaker 3: and Savannah could sit there begging for the return of
2:27
Speaker 3: their mother while secretly wondering heys cousin Larry part of this,
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Speaker 3: I mean knowing something of that import I don't see it,
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Speaker 3: Dave Mac. I mean I know what the statistics say,
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Speaker 3: I know the statistics say look to those closest to
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Speaker 3: the victim.
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Speaker 1: But just looking at the.
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Speaker 3: Three siblings, I don't see it, Dave mac or maybe
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Speaker 3: is that I don't want to see it, Nancy.
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Speaker 5: It looks to me like they don't consider it somebody
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Speaker 5: that's very close to them.
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Speaker 1: But Nancy, in.
3:00
Speaker 5: All probability, the person or persons involved in this had
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Speaker 5: access to that house before. Now that leaves you with gardeners,
3:08
Speaker 5: people that come by to help out with things around
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Speaker 5: the house. There are a lot of people that had
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Speaker 5: access to that house, and they would have been familiar
3:16
Speaker 5: with camera placement and things like that that you've mentioned
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Speaker 5: before about the granny cams. So there are a lot
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Speaker 5: of people beyond that close family friend group that would
3:25
Speaker 5: have had access to that house. And maybe that's why
3:29
Speaker 5: you're seeing they just look devastated. To me, the whole
3:31
Speaker 5: family does. And all the communication is one way. It's
3:35
Speaker 5: coming from the kidnappers to them. They have no way
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Speaker 5: of contacting the kidnapper or kidnappers at this point. They've
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Speaker 5: been given no communication, way of reaching out. That's why
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Speaker 5: Cameron said, we need to know you've got or we
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Speaker 5: need pay and we need you to reach out to
3:50
Speaker 5: us to tell us how to get up with you.
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Speaker 5: They don't know who it is, but it could be
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Speaker 5: somebody They've seen a lot, you know, Dave.
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Speaker 3: Matt, You're right again, a lot of speculation swirling about
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Speaker 3: a family member somehow being involved. But when I look
4:06
Speaker 3: at those three, I just don't see it, or maybe
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Speaker 3: I'm blind, but I'm rejecting that this as the theory
4:15
Speaker 3: has swirled of a really sinister plot to go into
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Speaker 3: the home and remove the door.
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Speaker 1: Cam, the front door cam.
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Speaker 3: Let's see a shot of where the door cam would
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Speaker 3: have been like, coming in, for instance, through the back door,
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Speaker 3: coming through, reaching out the front door, and yanking that
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Speaker 3: off so you the perp are not pictured on the
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Speaker 3: door cam, and then waiting because if you look at
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Speaker 3: the timeline, now, let's see the timeline. Please, If you
4:45
Speaker 3: look at the timeline, there's.
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Speaker 1: About a twenty minute gap.
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Speaker 3: You've got her coming home from dinner in Majong with
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Speaker 3: Annie and the son in law.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 3: Then the garage door closes and we assume she's entering
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Speaker 3: through the CA kitchen door from her garage. Then look
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Speaker 3: at it. The door cam disconnects on the front door.
5:09
Speaker 3: Then you've got about twenty minutes. Did they yank off
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Speaker 3: the door cam and wait to see if police would arrive? Now,
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Speaker 3: Dave Matt creat me if I'm wrong, please, because these
5:23
Speaker 3: times are critical. Wasn't there a spike, a noticeable spike
5:30
Speaker 3: in her pacemaker, her heart monitor at two a m.
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Speaker 6: There was?
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Speaker 5: There was a noticeable spike at two am. So you're
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Speaker 5: talking about thirteen minutes after the camera is pulled down,
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Speaker 5: and that thirteen minute window, you know, the first thing
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Speaker 5: that happens when they're checking on somebody is the phone.
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Speaker 1: Call are you okay?
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Speaker 5: That's usually what happens with home security systems, and then
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Speaker 5: if nothing there, then the police at two o'clock. We
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Speaker 5: I believe anyway, that that's when the kidnapper or kidnappers
6:02
Speaker 5: were actually in her room and putting hands on her,
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Speaker 5: getting her up out of bed.
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Speaker 3: Straight up to Chris McDonough, our long time friend and colleague.
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Speaker 3: He is the director at the Cold Case Foundation, former
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Speaker 3: homicide detective with over three hundred bona fide homicides under
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Speaker 3: his belt, also host of the YouTube.
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Speaker 1: Channel of the Interview Room where I found him.
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Speaker 3: Chris, thank you for being with us regarding this whole
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Speaker 3: theory that the family is.
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Speaker 1: Involved in some way, which I reject. I'm putting it
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Speaker 1: out there.
6:39
Speaker 3: You and I have talked privately about you Fed.
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Speaker 1: You Fed.
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Speaker 3: It's a Celebrate system. It's mobile and it's carried in
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Speaker 3: a box. Usually it looks like a you know, a
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Speaker 3: messenger boy bag or a briefcase that you wear over
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Speaker 3: your shoulder that was seen being carried out of the
7:00
Speaker 3: family home. Explain what the Celebrate you Fed does in
7:04
Speaker 3: a nutshell?
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Speaker 1: Do go deathcom for on me?
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Speaker 6: So?
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Speaker 7: Well, there's a couple of things that it does. It's
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Speaker 7: a mobile device that you can bring to a particular scene,
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Speaker 7: in this case, the house, and then you're able to
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Speaker 7: download any type of forensic evidence in the house from
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Speaker 7: devices such as you know, computers or you know, phone,
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Speaker 7: cell phones, et cetera. And then that information is immediately
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Speaker 7: available through some software that Celebrate has to the investigators
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Speaker 7: on the scene.
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Speaker 3: It can get deleted texts, emails, ims, it can get
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Speaker 3: encrypted and it really came to the forefront of our
7:44
Speaker 3: national knowledge, our bubble of knowledge during the Alex Murdock
7:49
Speaker 3: trial when a secret Service witness took the stand to
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Speaker 3: explain how it was used in that case and it
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Speaker 3: worked this is what I'm that witness that observed the
8:04
Speaker 3: agent coming out with the youth head.
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Speaker 1: It was like, you know, pouring gas on a flame.
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Speaker 3: They suggest that the families involved Number one, the families
8:15
Speaker 3: always scrutinized first statistically they are involved. I do not
8:20
Speaker 3: believe at this juncture that that is the case.
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Speaker 1: Here.
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Speaker 3: I want to defend them so that is not out
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Speaker 3: of the ordinary. This is what I think they should do,
8:29
Speaker 3: Chris mcdonna. Everybody, take a polygraph. Everybody, everybody in the family,
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Speaker 3: all the granny, nannies, everyone that worked with her in
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Speaker 3: her yard, in her driveway, the handyman, the instacart person,
8:44
Speaker 3: the pizza guy, all of them, even the Sunday school teacher. Yes,
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Speaker 3: I said it, submit to a polygraph. What do you
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Speaker 3: think about that, Chris mcdonna, And then anybody that says hgb.
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Speaker 1: L No, they're at the top of my suspects.
9:00
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think almost immediately that's not a bad idea.
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Speaker 6: I think that could be a path.
9:06
Speaker 7: But you can take Savannah and the brother off of
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Speaker 7: that list right away. What the anomaly is in that
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Speaker 7: you fed problem here is who brought it to the scene,
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Speaker 7: and that was the IKAC team Internet crimes against children,
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Speaker 7: So this could be a whole other lane that's not
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Speaker 7: even being looked at here. That is kind of a
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Speaker 7: one off from the actual abduction of Missus Guthrie.
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Speaker 3: Okay, put him up. Are you saying that now we're
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Speaker 3: investigating a crime on a child? Are you actually saying that.
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Speaker 7: I'm saying that. Well, I'm saying that's possible. Yes, Yes,
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Speaker 7: it's possible.
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Speaker 3: Okay, No, No, they had the celebrates, so they brought
9:50
Speaker 3: it over.
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Speaker 1: Now, if I'm asking you.
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Speaker 3: To bring ever some case files, do you put on
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Speaker 3: a crime Stories T shirt? No, you come in what
9:57
Speaker 3: you're wearing. K No, I don't think you know what.
10:02
Speaker 3: Take him away. I'm gonna let you sit there and
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Speaker 3: think about what you just said.
10:06
Speaker 1: What But but I'll.
10:08
Speaker 6: Tell you here's the deal.
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Speaker 7: When you have a major case like this, and I've
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Speaker 7: worked many of them, and you run across something, you go,
10:17
Speaker 7: what is this? Okay, you don't have the eyekac people
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Speaker 7: show up with their you fed.
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Speaker 6: That just doesn't happen.
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Speaker 7: That is a secondary problem that they potentially could have
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Speaker 7: run into. It may not be involved with Missus Guthrie
10:32
Speaker 7: in any way, shape or form. However, these guys did
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Speaker 7: show up, and they don't show up to search for
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Speaker 7: missing eighty four year old women.
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Speaker 6: That's my point.
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Speaker 3: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, who are we looking at?
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Speaker 1: Number one? I'm calling for polygraphs.
11:02
Speaker 3: Savannah Guthrie knows exactly what's going on right now. Savannah
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Speaker 3: is not only a sweet, loving, sincere person. I know
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Speaker 3: because I worked with her. I've seen her under all
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Speaker 3: sorts of stressful conditions, nothing like this, of course, but
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Speaker 3: she knows the law people like the back of her hand,
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Speaker 3: and I guarantee you she'd be the first one to
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Speaker 3: get in line for the polly to make everybody else
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Speaker 3: do it.
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Speaker 1: So what do we do now?
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Speaker 3: Todd Shipley is with US digital cybercrime expert, former Detective
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Speaker 3: Sergeant Reno twenty five years in law enforcement, author of
11:47
Speaker 3: Surviving a cyber attack, author of investigating Internet crimes.
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Speaker 1: This is your Billywick, the whole you fed celebrate. What
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Speaker 1: do you think is going on? To me?
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Speaker 3: It's so pay standard operating procedure. Instead of parting all
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Speaker 3: the family's laptops, their desktops, their phones, everything out, they
12:13
Speaker 3: just did e fat That's what I think happened.
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Speaker 1: Todd Well, I don't.
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Speaker 8: Think you're incorrect, Nancy. I think what happened is who's
12:18
Speaker 8: available at the time. So you've got a major crime
12:21
Speaker 8: and somebody could have been on vacation or something like that,
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Speaker 8: and they said, who's got access to and who's trained
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Speaker 8: to use the tool, and so the guys go, we're here,
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Speaker 8: we can show up. What I think happened, though, is
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Speaker 8: the reason they focus on the family, if they did
12:35
Speaker 8: at that time, was keep in mind things like ring
12:38
Speaker 8: cameras and those other cameras can share the videos to
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Speaker 8: other people, and so they may have been trying to
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Speaker 8: find other evidence on those phones from the family's phones
12:49
Speaker 8: that was shared by the ring camera at the house.
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Speaker 8: So there's a lot of other things that explain why
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Speaker 8: this occurred. It wasn't that there was some of the
12:56
Speaker 8: crime occurring. The family may have had evidence that they
12:59
Speaker 8: wanted to look at the Uber receipts, all the other
13:01
Speaker 8: things that were going on. They're trying to build a
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Speaker 8: background around what happened. And it's on phones. Because we've
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Speaker 8: talked about this many times about how the phones have
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Speaker 8: everything about our lives, and it's going to describe the
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Speaker 8: mother too.
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Speaker 3: Okay, you listed and I've really liked this idea, todd
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Speaker 3: Shipley other things.
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Speaker 1: When I think of the you FED celebrate, I think
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Speaker 1: a cell phone. I think of an iPad, a desktop,
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Speaker 1: a laptop.
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Speaker 3: You're saying there are other devices and well that can
13:31
Speaker 3: be factored into the u FED, not just those devices
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Speaker 3: such as what So.
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Speaker 8: What we're talking about is the apps on the phone,
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Speaker 8: because you can share those apps with other people, and
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Speaker 8: so I can share my ring camera app with family, friends,
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Speaker 8: whoever I want to share it with, and that may
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Speaker 8: have been on the phone, and that's what they're looking for.
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Speaker 8: They're looking for the Uber connections. They're looking for all
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Speaker 8: the apps that were used to build a background about
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Speaker 8: what the mother did beforehand.
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Speaker 3: But how I would looking at their devices and their
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Speaker 3: laptops and so forth help them establish what Nancy Guthrie did.
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Speaker 8: Because you can share everything you do uber. You do
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Speaker 8: an Uber, I can share it with a family or
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Speaker 8: friend that I did it. I can share the camera
14:17
Speaker 8: itself and let other people see what's happening at my house,
14:21
Speaker 8: so I can get the notifications and get information, and
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Speaker 8: that may have been what's on their phones. It's not
14:27
Speaker 8: something nefarious. It's just that all these things can be
14:30
Speaker 8: shared between phones now, and they could have had the
14:34
Speaker 8: images or some other things, maybe even the pacemaker. I
14:37
Speaker 8: don't know how the pacemaker, this particular one work, but
14:41
Speaker 8: it could have been shared across other devices so that
14:44
Speaker 8: people knew.
14:45
Speaker 6: She was in trouble.
14:46
Speaker 3: Okay, I've got an example to boil down what you
14:49
Speaker 3: just said, and I found like parables that this made
14:54
Speaker 3: more sense to jury's Okay, we have granny cams at
14:58
Speaker 3: our home because my mother, my ninety four year old mother,
15:01
Speaker 3: lives with us. My husband has the app. I have
15:05
Speaker 3: the app, our children have the app. So you're saying that,
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Speaker 3: for instance, if the fans came and did celebrate on me,
15:17
Speaker 3: they could get anything I shared with my children, such
15:20
Speaker 3: as Life three point sixty bar exactly, they're on my Uber.
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Speaker 1: Eats they're on my Uber. Is that what you're saying?
15:29
Speaker 6: Exactly?
15:30
Speaker 8: And Lie three sixty, you know, is a great example
15:33
Speaker 8: of one of those things that are shared commonly. Amunk'st
15:36
Speaker 8: family to track and identify where people are at, especially
15:39
Speaker 8: a vulnerable senior. That's an important thing to understand where
15:42
Speaker 8: they're at, and so the family wants it to know.
15:44
Speaker 8: So their apps are going to be tracking what's going.
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Speaker 1: On with my Okay, what if they had a family
15:50
Speaker 1: phone plan? Do you know about those?
15:53
Speaker 3: How a group of people okay, explain that would that
15:56
Speaker 3: be included?
15:57
Speaker 8: Well it could potentially. It just depends on this settings
16:00
Speaker 8: that you as the user set up or the owner
16:03
Speaker 8: of that family plan. Now, some of those things those
16:06
Speaker 8: family plans, you know, share the text message and share
16:09
Speaker 8: all those things, and you can, as the owner of
16:11
Speaker 8: the plan, can go in and see activity certain activities
16:15
Speaker 8: depending on what's happening. So those are other technologies that
16:18
Speaker 8: you know, law enforcement is going to be looking at
16:20
Speaker 8: to see the behavior before and after the incident.
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Speaker 3: So bottom line, Todd Shipley, if they could you fed
16:30
Speaker 3: and I'm using that as a verb, celebrate the family's information,
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Speaker 3: they could then at the same time captured any shared
16:42
Speaker 3: apps that were shared with Nancy Guthrie.
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Speaker 8: Correct, correct, exactly. That's that's why the celebrate was there.
16:50
Speaker 8: They're looking at.
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Speaker 1: Every phone, got it?
16:52
Speaker 3: And just an example, Todd Shipley, of how important that is.
16:56
Speaker 1: The Brian Coberger, Idaho case.
17:00
Speaker 3: We know that there was a delivery I think it
17:04
Speaker 3: was a door dash around four am, three thirty am,
17:08
Speaker 3: four am, because we saw it on one of the
17:12
Speaker 3: victim's phones. That's how important this is. I'm thinking about
17:17
Speaker 3: how to go old school to find Nancy Guthrie, starting
17:23
Speaker 3: with lpr's license plate readers, redlight cams. Yes, Jeffrey Gentry
17:30
Speaker 3: joining US Forensic Certified Bloodstained Pattern Analyst, Senior crime scene Analyst,
17:37
Speaker 3: death Investigator, author of blood stained pattern Analysis for author
17:43
Speaker 3: of forensic science applications to death and crime scene author
17:47
Speaker 3: of death investigations, information to obtain during a forensic death investigation.
17:52
Speaker 1: It goes on and on. Let's talk old school.
17:56
Speaker 3: We've heard over and over from mainstream that nobody's door
18:02
Speaker 3: cam could likely catch anything because it's the houses in
18:06
Speaker 3: that neighborhood are set far off the street, and there
18:09
Speaker 3: is a lot of foliage, trees, you name it.
18:14
Speaker 1: That's why people want to live there. You have a
18:16
Speaker 1: seclude Look at all the can I see.
18:18
Speaker 3: That aeril again, Look at all the trees, the foliage
18:21
Speaker 3: around each home.
18:23
Speaker 1: I see what they're saying.
18:25
Speaker 3: But those streets, jeff Gentry, have to have to pour
18:31
Speaker 3: out somewhere, like the stream to the river, like the
18:35
Speaker 3: river to the sea. There's an outlet somewhere, and at
18:41
Speaker 3: that outlet.
18:41
Speaker 1: I guarantee you there's a red light, bam, what about it?
18:46
Speaker 9: I completely agree at this point, six days into this investigation,
18:51
Speaker 9: if you do not have a suspect, and you do
18:53
Speaker 9: not have a solid lead, you can't just sit around
18:56
Speaker 9: and wait. I know, we have tons of people working
18:58
Speaker 9: on this. You actually have to go out, Like you
19:00
Speaker 9: said yet old school. You have to rely on traditional
19:03
Speaker 9: police work and you have to rely on science to
19:06
Speaker 9: solve this crime. This is not your typical criminal. It's
19:09
Speaker 9: not somebody that has made huge mistakes. They probably didn't
19:12
Speaker 9: have their cell phone with them where they're going to
19:13
Speaker 9: get self powered pings. They're not making major mistakes like
19:17
Speaker 9: you see in a lot of crimes of passion. This
19:19
Speaker 9: is obviously planned out. This is not your typical crime.
19:22
Speaker 9: But you see that they did make mistakes. They took
19:26
Speaker 9: things from the home, like the camera. They made mistakes
19:29
Speaker 9: by leaving bloodstains behind. So when you're talking about forensics
19:33
Speaker 9: and science, you think about every single contact leaves a trace.
19:37
Speaker 9: That's one of the foundations of forensic science. Every single
19:40
Speaker 9: contact leaves a trace. So when this person was preparing
19:44
Speaker 9: for this crime, they left forensic evidence. When this person
19:47
Speaker 9: was traveling to the scene, they left forensic evidence. When
19:50
Speaker 9: they broke into the home, and we're talking about forced entry.
19:53
Speaker 9: A lot of people don't know what forced entry means.
19:55
Speaker 9: It means like a door was either pride open, a
19:57
Speaker 9: window was broken, somebody used some kind of a mech
20:00
Speaker 9: to unlock a door. So that's what forced entry means.
20:03
Speaker 9: So they're leaving behind evidence. Looking at the front door,
20:06
Speaker 9: I don't see any fingerprint dust. So what I would
20:09
Speaker 9: do in this case is I would scrap everything, start
20:12
Speaker 9: from scratch, recreate this whole event. Try to think about
20:17
Speaker 9: how this criminal got in the home. Walk their path,
20:19
Speaker 9: how did they interact with the victim? Walk their path?
20:23
Speaker 9: Did they sit down somewhere, did they touch things, did
20:26
Speaker 9: they wash their hands? Did they eat something out of
20:28
Speaker 9: the refrigerator. All of these contacts inside the home and
20:31
Speaker 9: with the victim can leave trace evidence. They could leave bibers,
20:35
Speaker 9: It could leave fingerprints, it could leave DNA. You can't
20:38
Speaker 9: rule anything out in this case. Even if they've released
20:40
Speaker 9: the scene, they can still go back in and use
20:44
Speaker 9: blood enhancing chemicals like blue Star in the dark to
20:47
Speaker 9: see if blood stains that may have been wiped up,
20:50
Speaker 9: or maybe small blood stains that got disturbed during these contacts,
20:54
Speaker 9: you have to think like a criminal in these cases,
20:57
Speaker 9: how did this person get in? How did they exit
21:00
Speaker 9: the door cam? Most of these door cams you can't
21:04
Speaker 9: just pull them off. They require some kind of special
21:06
Speaker 9: tool to get them off. So was there some kind
21:09
Speaker 9: of a scratch or did they leave a fingerprint behind
21:13
Speaker 9: when they were reaching through the door to remove this
21:15
Speaker 9: camera so it wouldn't see when they're walking her out.
21:18
Speaker 9: Like we mentioned before, there doesn't really appear to be
21:21
Speaker 9: a struggle at that front door. We know that she
21:23
Speaker 9: was bleeding, we know she's standing there for some period
21:25
Speaker 9: of time. We believe that she was upright and walked
21:27
Speaker 9: away because the nature of the bloodstains. But why didn't
21:31
Speaker 9: she follow the ground? But what was the reason that
21:33
Speaker 9: she left that home without being dragged away or carried away?
21:38
Speaker 9: There's no evidence that she was murdered in the home
21:41
Speaker 9: to so why did she leave? You have to think
21:44
Speaker 9: about all these things. You can't rely on assumption at
21:48
Speaker 9: this point. You have to recreate everything and figure out
21:51
Speaker 9: where this person messed up, because this criminal did mess
21:54
Speaker 9: up somewhere and they will be caught.
21:57
Speaker 3: One thing I've been wondering, and I'm projecting it's really
22:01
Speaker 3: hard to pick up my mother, who's very light, she's
22:06
Speaker 3: ninety four, and move her anywhere without her walker very hard.
22:12
Speaker 3: Now Nancy uses a cane. Is her cane missing? Did
22:16
Speaker 3: she have a walker that she used at home? Is
22:19
Speaker 3: it missing? Did they take that? If they didn't, I'm
22:25
Speaker 3: wondering if there had to be two.
22:27
Speaker 1: People to help her walk. Jeffrey, that's very possible.
22:32
Speaker 9: I think about my own mom when we're looking at
22:34
Speaker 9: this case. Because she's kind of built the same way.
22:37
Speaker 9: She has thin skin. She would leave easily. And anytime
22:40
Speaker 9: that my mom has ever been in like physical distress
22:43
Speaker 9: or needed help or you know, when she had a
22:46
Speaker 9: knee surgery, I had to help her throughout the house.
22:48
Speaker 9: It's not easy. Even if somebody is not a very
22:51
Speaker 9: big person walking them throughout the house. They're gonna be
22:54
Speaker 9: touching different things. They might fall down, so it's not
22:58
Speaker 9: an easy thing to do. And if you're trying to
22:59
Speaker 9: remove can, if you're trying to get out to a
23:02
Speaker 9: car quickly to leave the scene, they're going to be
23:05
Speaker 9: touching things. There's going to be things disturbed. I want
23:08
Speaker 9: to know more about what's inside the house. I would
23:10
Speaker 9: love to know that and I would love to see
23:12
Speaker 9: the scene. I would love to see the area. I
23:14
Speaker 9: would love to walk around door to door ask neighbors again.
23:17
Speaker 6: What did you see?
23:18
Speaker 9: Every little piece of information is going to be critical
23:21
Speaker 9: at this.
23:21
Speaker 3: Point crime stories with Nancy Gray, police bringing out devices,
23:38
Speaker 3: bringing out evidence, They're swarming it still. This is from
23:44
Speaker 3: our friends at KOLD. The search was called off for
23:50
Speaker 3: a period of.
23:51
Speaker 1: Time, then it resumed.
23:54
Speaker 3: Much has been made about law enforcement releasing the crime
23:58
Speaker 3: scene and then having to come back to the crime scene.
24:02
Speaker 3: Does anybody on this panel disagree they released it prematurely.
24:06
Speaker 3: I didn't know what they were thinking when they did that.
24:09
Speaker 9: That was a you have everything that you need. It's
24:12
Speaker 9: not uncommon to release the crime scene, and it's not
24:14
Speaker 9: uncommon to go back to a crime scene after it's
24:16
Speaker 9: been released, after you bounce ideas off each other. For example,
24:20
Speaker 9: I think that they should probably go back in there
24:22
Speaker 9: again and open up dreams, take every single place.
24:27
Speaker 3: As I have said many times, they released a crime
24:30
Speaker 3: scene and everybody and a little sister could go over
24:33
Speaker 3: there and poke around those photos of the blood that
24:39
Speaker 3: was taken by media.
24:41
Speaker 1: That's not right.
24:43
Speaker 3: No, they should not have released that crime scene because
24:46
Speaker 3: now it's been totally compromised. You ever try to try
24:48
Speaker 3: a case when the scene's being compromised, it's hell, it's
24:52
Speaker 3: like the golden lottery ticket for the defense to claim, Oh,
24:56
Speaker 3: that wasn't there before it was planted, and so forth
25:00
Speaker 3: and so on.
25:02
Speaker 1: Can we get back to the ransom notes?
25:07
Speaker 3: We all know by now, all you legal eagles know
25:11
Speaker 3: that a fake ransom note was delivered by text to
25:16
Speaker 3: Savannah and I think her brother and or her brother
25:20
Speaker 3: and sister. That perp has been found, he's been arrested,
25:25
Speaker 3: and he's going to be prosecuted under federal law. And
25:28
Speaker 3: the theory is he used interstate commerce.
25:32
Speaker 1: What does that mean?
25:33
Speaker 3: Anything that crosses state lines has been deemed by our
25:37
Speaker 3: Supreme Court to be use of interstate commerce. Either you're
25:41
Speaker 3: driving across state lines, that's interstate.
25:44
Speaker 1: And you're using a vehicle and you bought gas, Hey,
25:47
Speaker 1: that's commerce. You may be using the phone, you pay
25:51
Speaker 1: a phone bill, that's commerce.
25:53
Speaker 3: You may text, you may send a telegraph a telegraph,
25:58
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if you're communication across the state lines
26:02
Speaker 3: or any way controlled by the federal government. You have
26:06
Speaker 3: used interstate commerce. Bam, Does that make sense to everybody. No,
26:12
Speaker 3: it doesn't, but it makes sense to the US Supreme Court.
26:15
Speaker 3: So when this guy sent a text across US airwaves
26:22
Speaker 3: to Savannah for a ransom, which is a violation of
26:27
Speaker 3: the law that's interstate commerce, he has already.
26:31
Speaker 1: Been booked and he is in jail.
26:34
Speaker 3: We have also learned Dave Mack that law enforcement has
26:37
Speaker 3: said all the fake ransoms are bogging down the investigation.
26:42
Speaker 5: There's that many, you know, Nancy, this is one of
26:45
Speaker 5: those situations where the media interest because people are so
26:49
Speaker 5: fascinated by this, mainly because of Savannah Guthrie, but also
26:53
Speaker 5: the fact that there's an eighty four year old woman
26:55
Speaker 5: missing and it's got people going crazy. So yeah, the
26:59
Speaker 5: fact that we know there are ransom notes. You know,
27:02
Speaker 5: we've had plenty of missing people cases that we've covered
27:05
Speaker 5: that didn't have ransom notes, but here we have them.
27:08
Speaker 1: So all the crazies have come.
27:10
Speaker 5: Out of the woodwork and they're flooding. All the investigators
27:13
Speaker 5: have to take everything seriously. As they said from the
27:16
Speaker 5: very beginning, you know, before they even verified the first
27:20
Speaker 5: ransom notes we heard about, they were like, we are
27:22
Speaker 5: taking every tip, every call seriously.
27:25
Speaker 1: They have to.
27:26
Speaker 5: It's an investigation, and that's what they've been doing. That's
27:29
Speaker 5: how they were able to get the guy arrested in
27:31
Speaker 5: California so quickly. They've already got him admitting that he
27:35
Speaker 5: sent the fake or that he sent the fake messages.
27:38
Speaker 5: You know, they had him tied down in a matter
27:41
Speaker 5: of twenty four hours, Nancy. So yeah, they're spending a
27:44
Speaker 5: lot of time on everything that comes into them, including
27:48
Speaker 5: fake ransom notes, trying to take advantage of a bitcoin billionaire.
27:52
Speaker 3: You know, you know, I'm thinking about technology, about going
27:57
Speaker 3: old school to solve this case. When we say old school,
28:02
Speaker 3: Todd Shipley, you were reeling off a lot of must dos.
28:08
Speaker 1: What are they? What must be happening right now?
28:12
Speaker 8: Well, from a technology point of view, what the law
28:15
Speaker 8: enforcements looking at is anything they can find where there's
28:19
Speaker 8: a record. They're looking at the tower records for all
28:22
Speaker 8: the cell phones in that area. Keep in mind, there's
28:25
Speaker 8: always going to be a lot of records, but this
28:26
Speaker 8: is the middle of the night, so they'll be less.
28:28
Speaker 6: They're good.
28:29
Speaker 8: Look at all the flock cameras and any cameras that
28:32
Speaker 8: are reading license plates in and around the area and
28:37
Speaker 8: throughout Tucson, because they're trying to find any suspect that's
28:41
Speaker 8: moving at that time of night, and so that's going
28:44
Speaker 8: to limit the amount of people moving around. So I
28:48
Speaker 8: know they've already looked at all the ring cameras in
28:49
Speaker 8: the neighborhood. They're looking at all the records that they
28:52
Speaker 8: could find. Technology wise, they've gone through her phone trying
28:55
Speaker 8: to figure out other things that she's done that could
28:58
Speaker 8: lead up to a precipit something. Keep in mind, we
29:01
Speaker 8: don't know the contact she's had with other people. One
29:04
Speaker 8: of the things I talk about all the time with
29:06
Speaker 8: seniors and vulnerable people is that if you're not paying attention,
29:10
Speaker 8: they could get sucked into some kind of scam and
29:13
Speaker 8: you don't know it. So they're looking at her phone
29:15
Speaker 8: to find out if she was texting, communicating with on
29:18
Speaker 8: WhatsApp with somebody talking about bitcoin or something else, and
29:22
Speaker 8: becoming more conversion with the kinds of contacts she had
29:27
Speaker 8: towards the end there. So there's a huge amount of
29:30
Speaker 8: valuable data they're going to get from the technology.
29:32
Speaker 1: What about it, Jeffrey Gentry.
29:35
Speaker 9: I'm curious about the motive. Is it really financial at
29:41
Speaker 9: this point? Because you have a person that has obviously
29:44
Speaker 9: put out there that they want money for this crime,
29:47
Speaker 9: but they haven't been in contact with the family since
29:49
Speaker 9: they haven't been in contact with law enforcement, So I
29:52
Speaker 9: think you have to kind of start thinking about doing
29:55
Speaker 9: some profiling in this case, trying to figure out who
29:58
Speaker 9: this suspect is, what actually is their intended motive, and
30:03
Speaker 9: why haven't you heard from them?
30:04
Speaker 6: Why why aren't they reaching out?
30:06
Speaker 3: Well, I think the motive is clear. Have I missed
30:08
Speaker 3: something They said, give me millions in bitcoin quote or else.
30:12
Speaker 1: I think that's the motive which leads.
30:16
Speaker 3: Me to has anybody hit Nancy Guthrie or her family
30:19
Speaker 3: up for money? Is somebody in need financial need that
30:23
Speaker 3: they know of.
30:24
Speaker 1: I would be.
30:25
Speaker 3: Looking at every single person and their husbands and sons
30:31
Speaker 3: that need money, anybody.
30:33
Speaker 1: With a record.
30:34
Speaker 3: They've already been looking at sex predators in the area.
30:36
Speaker 3: But it's not about a sex predator. I'm telling you
30:40
Speaker 3: that right now. Agree or disagree, Chris mcdonna.
30:42
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wouldn't take anything off the table though, because
30:46
Speaker 7: she's such a low risk victim. Here there is an
30:49
Speaker 7: association between the victim and this offender. And to your point, Nancy,
30:53
Speaker 7: somewhere in this circle of influence and you always do.
30:57
Speaker 7: Start with the family, of course, and your work, your
30:59
Speaker 7: way out. This offender is familiar because if you look
31:03
Speaker 7: at the victimology of this particular woman here, you know
31:08
Speaker 7: the offender risk of just arbitrarily showing up at you know,
31:13
Speaker 7: two o'clock in the morning, ripping a doorbell off, breaking
31:16
Speaker 7: into a house, you know, taking an eighty four year
31:19
Speaker 7: old woman out of that house, and then saying, oh,
31:22
Speaker 7: by the way, I need bitcoin between two or four
31:25
Speaker 7: million dollars. That tells us a whole bunch about the
31:28
Speaker 7: unsophistication of this particular perpetrator. So that means at some
31:33
Speaker 7: point they have cross paths. And if you look at
31:36
Speaker 7: this picture here with her sitting on that chair, look
31:39
Speaker 7: at her left hand. That to me, when I first
31:42
Speaker 7: saw that photograph, I thought, okay, did she fall going
31:45
Speaker 7: outside onto that porch, Because when you look at the
31:48
Speaker 7: blood evidence there, there's also a piece of the debris
31:52
Speaker 7: over on top of the blood, and those are ninety
31:55
Speaker 7: degree droplets, which the other guests I'm sure would agree with.
32:01
Speaker 7: If you look at the upper left hand quadrant, there
32:03
Speaker 7: is a debris on top of that blood. So I
32:07
Speaker 7: went back and looked at the news reports where they
32:10
Speaker 7: showed the evidence technician photographing that, and so does that
32:15
Speaker 7: tell us that the suspect was behind her and had
32:18
Speaker 7: kicked that debris on top of that blood, and had
32:22
Speaker 7: she fallen and was trying to get back up which
32:25
Speaker 7: would create those ninety degree blood droplets there. So I
32:30
Speaker 7: think there's a possibility that you do have to go
32:33
Speaker 7: old school. The technology is going to be a bonus.
32:37
Speaker 7: But somebody knew who Miss Guthrie was.
32:40
Speaker 3: Let's analyzed what he just said about the blood, Jeff Gentry.
32:44
Speaker 6: So he's exactly right.
32:45
Speaker 9: Those are ninety degree blood stains, indicating that they were
32:48
Speaker 9: created when somebody was standing upright and bleeding. What I
32:51
Speaker 9: don't see, though, is any evidence that she was on
32:54
Speaker 9: the ground struggling at any point.
32:56
Speaker 6: So if she did fall and was.
32:59
Speaker 9: Injured in some way, I don't see any They're called
33:01
Speaker 9: transfer stains, and they look completely different than the ninety
33:04
Speaker 9: degree blood drops or the stains that you see there.
33:07
Speaker 9: And if she was on the ground actively bleeding and
33:11
Speaker 9: trying to support herself, trying to push herself back up,
33:14
Speaker 9: you would see evidence of blood transfer on the ground.
33:17
Speaker 9: You would see contact stains on the wall, maybe where
33:19
Speaker 9: she was trying to reposition herself. He's exactly right that
33:24
Speaker 9: the debris is on top of the blood stains, so
33:27
Speaker 9: that gives you an element of timing. But I do
33:30
Speaker 9: know that the weather there in that area is told
33:32
Speaker 9: that it was. It's rather windy on a regular basis,
33:35
Speaker 9: and so it's not uncommon for things to blow onto
33:39
Speaker 9: the porch. So it's possible that those debris items.
33:43
Speaker 3: Were but gravel. I don't see wind blowing rocks or gravel,
33:49
Speaker 3: little pieces of gravel. I don't see that. Maybe a leaf.
33:53
Speaker 1: So what is your analysis about he's saying debris.
33:57
Speaker 3: It looks like the gravel that was beside the ornamental
34:00
Speaker 3: that was beside the wallway.
34:01
Speaker 6: There's an era.
34:02
Speaker 9: So if you look two bricks out from the wall
34:05
Speaker 9: or two tiles out from the wall, there's an area
34:08
Speaker 9: where there's multiple blood drops and then little tiny individual
34:12
Speaker 9: satellite stains. And I talked about this the other day.
34:14
Speaker 9: That's it's called a blood into blood pattern or a
34:17
Speaker 9: drip pattern, and that's where somebody is stationary and the
34:21
Speaker 9: blood dripping into the blood source or the blood pool
34:25
Speaker 9: creates those little satellite stains. So that's that's going to
34:29
Speaker 9: indicate that she was standing in that position for some
34:31
Speaker 9: period of time, dripping blood onto the ground, so actively
34:33
Speaker 9: dripping blood on the ground. And then next to that,
34:36
Speaker 9: coming out one tile, you see what looks like possibly
34:38
Speaker 9: a footwear pattern in that. So whoever was assisting her
34:43
Speaker 9: or if she was wearing shoes, we.
34:44
Speaker 1: Hold on, where do you see a footwear pattern?
34:46
Speaker 9: A third tile out from the wall, there's several drip
34:50
Speaker 9: stains and then what looks like a footwear impression there,
34:54
Speaker 9: or a partial footwear impression.
34:56
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Gentry, what do you make of they gravel disruption That.
35:01
Speaker 9: Could definitely be somebody walking through it or kicking it,
35:04
Speaker 9: or like your other guest said, you know, if she
35:07
Speaker 9: was struggling in some way or maybe even trying to
35:09
Speaker 9: get away, that's definitely possible that the gravel was disturbed there,
35:15
Speaker 9: or whether they were trying to help her up if
35:16
Speaker 9: she fell, or if she was injured or trying to
35:19
Speaker 9: resist in any way. But if she was on the
35:22
Speaker 9: ground actively bleeding, you would see different blood patterns to
35:26
Speaker 9: indicate that. I don't see anything that to me would
35:29
Speaker 9: suggest that she was.
35:30
Speaker 3: You know what it indicates to me, Just go with
35:32
Speaker 3: me for a moment. Pull back out if you don't
35:34
Speaker 3: mind on the picture. I want to see the picture
35:36
Speaker 3: at a greater distance. It looks to me like somebody's
35:39
Speaker 3: walking beside her and maybe trying to hold her up,
35:43
Speaker 3: and they've gotten into the gravel.
35:44
Speaker 1: The gravel is two our right. It would be her.
35:48
Speaker 3: Left holding her maybe under the arm, and she's walking
35:52
Speaker 3: forward and somebody is on her left in that gravel.
35:56
Speaker 1: We know her.
35:57
Speaker 3: Cane was in the hull, so she needs help walking.
36:04
Speaker 3: According to Jeffrey Gentry, who's a blood spatter analyst, she's
36:08
Speaker 3: upright and walking based on the blood spatter, so we
36:13
Speaker 3: know at least one person, if we're reading this correctly,
36:17
Speaker 3: is helping her out the front door. Are there to
36:22
Speaker 3: people another question? Let me throw it everyone on the panel.
36:26
Speaker 3: I've gotten a lot of questions on social about her pacemaker,
36:33
Speaker 3: and yes, I had thought about it. I researched it,
36:35
Speaker 3: I spoke to a doctor. There's no GPS and a pacemaker.
36:40
Speaker 3: That's the way I understand it. So we're not going
36:42
Speaker 3: to find her. Somebody even on Twitter tweeted me the
36:47
Speaker 3: novel idea of putting her phone, which was in the home,
36:52
Speaker 3: onto a dog and letting the dog with a handler
36:56
Speaker 3: go through the area and see if the pacemaker alone.
37:01
Speaker 3: That would be a very rudimentary experiment. It probably would
37:05
Speaker 3: not work. With the point is well taken. Is there
37:10
Speaker 3: a way to track that pacemaker? Does anybody have an idea?
37:14
Speaker 3: Because what I've been told the answer is no.
37:17
Speaker 6: There's probably not.
37:20
Speaker 9: I've dealt with pacemakers a lot because during the death
37:22
Speaker 9: investigations you have to remove people's pacemakers to have them
37:26
Speaker 9: analyzed so the doctor can do it in the office.
37:29
Speaker 9: But when somebody is deceased, obviously you don't take them
37:31
Speaker 9: to a doctor's office, so you remove their pacemaker.
37:34
Speaker 6: To have it analyzed.
37:36
Speaker 9: But in her case, it sounds like it's still working
37:39
Speaker 9: and could possibly connect if her device is close enough.
37:43
Speaker 9: But I think it has to be within several feed
37:45
Speaker 9: or a pretty close distance to her and the pacemaker
37:49
Speaker 9: to get any reliable information from it.
37:51
Speaker 3: Well, the other thing is is I understand it the
37:54
Speaker 3: pacemaker feeds information back to let's say the doctor's office
37:59
Speaker 3: or the clinic or the pacemaker administrator, but you have
38:05
Speaker 3: to be near the device. The pacemaker doesn't send it
38:10
Speaker 3: out across the airwaves. You've got to be near the device,
38:15
Speaker 3: like her device would be at home or it would
38:17
Speaker 3: be her.
38:18
Speaker 1: iPhone that would count.
38:21
Speaker 3: The pacemaker in no way is able at this juncture
38:25
Speaker 3: to send information about her, whether she's had a heart event,
38:29
Speaker 3: or where she is now that she's away from the
38:33
Speaker 3: Bluetooth at the home cannot trace her through that. Does
38:37
Speaker 3: a pacemaker continue to work post mortem? Anybody knows?
38:44
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, And they're designed Nancy for to report once
38:49
Speaker 7: a day to the doctor's office. Typically, I mean the
38:53
Speaker 7: scheduling could be a variance based on the patient's history.
38:57
Speaker 6: However, they typically you.
39:00
Speaker 7: Have to be near that device I either phone or
39:04
Speaker 7: an Apple Watch or something to that effect. And of
39:06
Speaker 7: course now we know at least she was separated from
39:10
Speaker 7: that device around two twenty seven am or two twenty
39:14
Speaker 7: eight am, so she could still that pacemaker could still
39:18
Speaker 7: be functioning, but it's not reporting, so she very much
39:23
Speaker 7: could be alive.
39:25
Speaker 3: So Todd Shipley, you're telling me license plate reader's cell
39:29
Speaker 3: phone data dumps obviously, cameras at red lights for those
39:36
Speaker 3: early morning hours when there's less traffic. Any other old
39:40
Speaker 3: polygraphs on everybody, And if you're not willing to take
39:44
Speaker 3: a polygraph to Hay with you.
39:46
Speaker 1: You're now on the suspect list. Am I missing anything?
39:48
Speaker 8: Shipley, Well, the cameras are going to tell a story.
39:52
Speaker 8: Whether it's going to have a complete story as we
39:54
Speaker 8: know it's probably not, but there are going to be
39:57
Speaker 8: a lot of information that they're still trying to go
39:59
Speaker 8: through because we're talking hours of the multiple.
40:02
Speaker 3: Games, and there were cameras in the home. Todd, there
40:04
Speaker 3: were cameras in the home. Hey, I want you to
40:07
Speaker 3: hear this fact, Dave mac tell them about the status
40:10
Speaker 3: of the cameras at the home.
40:11
Speaker 5: Well, we were told, or what has been reported, is
40:14
Speaker 5: that cameras inside the home that were there, and they
40:17
Speaker 5: were placed at different angles to cover all areas inside
40:20
Speaker 5: the home so that they could be checked on by
40:23
Speaker 5: family members in case Nancy were to fall or become incapacitated.
40:26
Speaker 1: They could then see inside the home.
40:29
Speaker 5: It has been reported that, yeah, they didn't pay for
40:31
Speaker 5: the subscription service, and so the cameras didn't record anything
40:35
Speaker 5: other than for eight hours and then it just continued
40:38
Speaker 5: to tape over, So there is nothing saved. By the
40:41
Speaker 5: time the police were involved, you aready been.
40:43
Speaker 1: Gone nothing and very quickly.
40:47
Speaker 3: Jeffrey, what is the difference in the wide pattern of
40:50
Speaker 3: blood drops and the tight groupings. Is that where you're
40:53
Speaker 3: saying blood into blood. So she's standing in one place,
40:59
Speaker 3: what is that what you are saying, there's droplets and
41:01
Speaker 3: then their satellite droplets. Exactly right, Okay, Chris mcdonna. Other
41:06
Speaker 3: than canines, and if you'll recall Chris mcdonna, a canine
41:10
Speaker 3: tracked Lacey Peterson from her home all the way to
41:15
Speaker 3: the San Francisco Bay and she was in the back
41:19
Speaker 3: of a boat we think right this far. So if
41:24
Speaker 3: she could be traced that way, I'm wondering why cadaver
41:27
Speaker 3: dogs can't at least give me a direction in which Nancy.
41:31
Speaker 7: Went well, and that's where they the US Customs and
41:35
Speaker 7: Border Patrol canine teams, the BORAC team was brought into
41:38
Speaker 7: this because those dogs are trained not only in tracking,
41:43
Speaker 7: but they may also have other dogs that are cross
41:45
Speaker 7: trained into the cadaver aspect. So they're going to put
41:48
Speaker 7: those dogs in a thirty foot lead and they're going
41:51
Speaker 7: to get some type of sense inside of the house
41:55
Speaker 7: that belonged to Nancy, typically a shirt or rag, a shoe,
41:59
Speaker 7: something like that, and then they're going to let the
42:01
Speaker 7: dog run. So the fact that those dogs are there Nancy.
42:05
Speaker 7: They're really stepping it up because those dogs are really
42:09
Speaker 7: super good at what they do.
42:10
Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to you, Dave, Matt Nancy.
42:13
Speaker 5: Earlier today, Tucson TV station KOLD received an email having
42:18
Speaker 5: to do with Nancy Guthrie. The FBI is working to
42:21
Speaker 5: confirm if the note came from the same sender as
42:24
Speaker 5: the first reporter ransom note referencing Nancy Guthrie, and officials
42:27
Speaker 5: caution it could take some time to verify due to
42:30
Speaker 5: technical factors. It still hasn't been verified that the first
42:34
Speaker 5: note came from someone who may have taken Nancy from
42:37
Speaker 5: her home. In a statement, the Pma County Sheriff's Department
42:40
Speaker 5: says the FBI and Pma County Sheriff's Department are aware
42:44
Speaker 5: of a new message regarding Nancy Guthrie. Investigators are actively
42:48
Speaker 5: inspecting the information provided in the message for its authenticity.
42:52
Speaker 5: While this is one new piece of information, the FBI
42:55
Speaker 5: and the Pema County Sheriff's Department are still asking anyone
42:58
Speaker 5: with tips to contact the fa at one eight hundred
43:01
Speaker 5: call FBI. The FBI continues to offer a reward of
43:05
Speaker 5: up to fifty thousand dollars for information leading to the
43:07
Speaker 5: recovery of Nancy Guthrie and or the arresting conviction of
43:10
Speaker 5: anyone involved in her disappearance and Nancy, that's not all.
43:14
Speaker 5: Investigators are back at Nancy Guthrie's house. They are closing
43:18
Speaker 5: down the road and they're moving all media out of
43:21
Speaker 5: the area for what they say are investigative purposes.
43:24
Speaker 3: If you know or think you know anything about missus
43:29
Speaker 3: Guthrie's disappearance, please dial toll free eight hundred two two
43:34
Speaker 3: five five three two four. If you wish to remain
43:38
Speaker 3: anonymous five two zero eight eight two seven four sixty three,
43:44
Speaker 3: there's a fifty thousand dollars reward five two zero eight
43:48
Speaker 3: eight two seven four six three, And please again tonight
43:55
Speaker 3: join us in prayer for the safe return Nancy Guthrie.
44:01
Speaker 1: Good night, friend,