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From Passion to Paycheck: Building a Creative Career Without Burning Out with Isabella Patrick · Serious Lady Business

• Isabella Patrick (00:00) you Leslie Youngblood (00:01) Welcome back to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist, and founder of Youngblood MMC, a marketing, media, and content agency. Now today, I would like you to meet Isabella Patrick. Isabella is a Manhattan-based interior designer who owns her residential interior design studio by the same name. She has become synonymous with colorful, yet elevated, livable, yet elegant interiors that surprise, delight, and support their dwellers. guests and all who pass through. She has an incredibly inspirational journey that we're going to talk about today. Isabella, welcome to Serious Lady Business. Isabella Patrick (00:38) Thank you. Hi Leslie. Thank you so much for having me. Leslie Youngblood (00:40) I love. my goodness. Thank you for joining us. I just love what we're going to be talking about today. From passion to paycheck, building a creative career without burning out. Now you started out not as an interior designer, you had a very interesting journey to get to where you are today with your own incredible design studio. The work you put out is just perfection, love every single thing that you guys do. tell us a little bit about you and your journey and then we can kind of get into some questions specifically around it. Isabella Patrick (01:13) Absolutely. So from a young age, I was always drawn to the arts and I was always involved in the arts, painting, drawing, you know, going to museums. grew up in Boston, so we had a lot of cultural ⁓ institutions and opportunities around me. But ultimately, you know, when I got to college, I was really kind of stuck and a little bit lost. didn't know what to do, but I, a turn of events, took an art history class, which is funny that it didn't like come across my radar sooner because of my, you know, history of being involved in the arts. But that class really turned me on to something that I know existed. And so I decided to major in art history, but I had no no idea what I was going to do with that. It's such a broad degree, know, like majoring in English is probably similar. Leslie Youngblood (02:05) That's what I was going to major. That's what I was going to major before I found advertising because it's like, what am I going to do? I like this, but how do you get a job in English or the arts? Right. Isabella Patrick (02:15) Yeah, what does that even mean? I'm majoring in English, I'm majoring in art history, like what am I gonna do? So I was like, ⁓ I don't know, I guess I'll work at a museum or a gallery or something. And so I did a little bit of like working for like an art consulting company in Boston. ⁓ Then I met my now husband who was working in the nonprofit sector and that sounded really interesting to me and really meaningful. And so he was moving to New York. So I moved to New York and you know, in New York, just like a wealth of opportunities but it's so funny I was remembering the other day how in the early aughts you know applying for a job meant like sitting at your computer and like typing out letters and printing them out and then like feeding your envelope through the printer and then that taking forever and swearing and then like sending out paper you know job ⁓ inquiries so I did that finally got a great job for a nonprofit art Leslie Youngblood (02:46) you Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (03:15) organization called Young Audiences, which I really, really love. They are around to this day and they bring arts programming into public schools that are, you know, most public schools don't have full-time arts programs or many of them don't, especially in New York. So that seemed really aligned, you know, with the arts and I was working in the development department, like learning about fundraising and what I mostly learned at that job was how to communicate with rich people. Leslie Youngblood (03:28) you Whoa, what a great skill and a surprising skill potentially to have to learn. Isabella Patrick (03:49) people of means not to like I feel like rich people sounds a little crass but it was like our board members were all people of means people of some kind of status which was why they were on our board you know they were also very smart and influential and like intelligent and interesting people and I was this little 25 26 year old or whatever I was and you know I was already like polished enough like I my parents raised me very you know to know how to like hold a conversation and have a conversation but I learned a lot about letter writing and finding a voice ⁓ and communicating efficiently and effectively with all different kinds of people. So there wasn't just a boilerplate that we used. We really tailored every single thing. So that was great. But I moved on from that job into another fundraising role at an organization that I did not love and I won't get into that. ⁓ And that job, that second job that I moved on to really just really turned me off. I was so unhappy there. ⁓ And I was like, why am I not, like why am I doing this? This is not my passion. I need to be creative. ⁓ I enjoyed like the cause worthy work that I was doing for a time. But like the creative need was like beckoning. And I think really being in a place where you're very unhappy makes things very crystal clear. And by that time, my husband and I had, you know, paid off our college. Leslie Youngblood (04:58) and Mm-hmm. you Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (05:19) debts and we were sort of like making a little bit more money felt a little more comfortable and I started saving and saving and saving and quit that job and Was like that's it. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go pursue interior design. I'm gonna take some courses at FIT I'm gonna get some kind of a job, you know But it's not gonna be like this kind of a job that I had at the time that was like stressful and unfulfilling and actually got a really cool job for as a personal assistant to an art dealer who was amazing, is amazing, and she's still running her firm. And it was a great fit because I had no interest in actually being in the art world as it turned out after all that art history degree experience. But I was interested in it. Like I was interested in art and I appreciated it, but I didn't want to become ⁓ an art dealer or work in a music Leslie Youngblood (06:08) It's so funny. Isabella Patrick (06:19) I didn't want to do any of that. ⁓ But I really enjoyed that environment working for her. was just the two of us and it was the perfect fit. I worked for her like four days a week and I went to school however many days a week at night and ⁓ there was a slowdown in her business. It was you know like something in the economy. Excuse me, have an itch. And she was like you know I could introduce you to some interior designers and you know if you want to get an Leslie Youngblood (06:21) huh. huh. Isabella Patrick (06:49) internship because of my work here slowing down for you and I was like that sounds great. So she introduced me to David Neto who is like the know the goat, one of the goats. I didn't know that at the time. I didn't admit it to him. I was like hi nice to meet you. I totally know who you are. And I ended up interning for him for about like just under a year and I got to work on this amazing project that I didn't even like I knew at the time it Leslie Youngblood (06:59) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You Isabella Patrick (07:19) was incredible, but I look back now and I'm like, holy shit, that was amazing. ⁓ Yeah, and then from there, just was like, okay, I've got a great name on my resume. I'm a really like a fake it till you make it person. I loved it. Like I learned so much at that internship. was like. Leslie Youngblood (07:22) Wow. Isabella Patrick (07:41) What the hell is a COM? There's all these like, you know, these industry terms like everybody has. COM is customer's own material. Like when you're getting something upholstered and you want to use your own material, it's called COM. If you want to use leather, it's called COL. And I just didn't even know what it was for so long. And I was like, yep, I got it. I mean, you know, I didn't make any, I'm sure I make any big mistakes because they kept me around, but I was figuring out a lot of stuff. And yeah, and that's Leslie Youngblood (07:46) What is this, Neon? Bye. It's needing. Isabella Patrick (08:11) continued for a few years I got I moved on from there to another you know like brand name firm through a connection that I made at FIT and it just worked out really well for me I was already in my early 30s I was about to have a baby by that point and so I was able to like have these like sort of short gigs at different studios learn a lot in a short period of time and then move on without like a big commitment which was nice and then after I Leslie Youngblood (08:32) Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (08:41) I had my second child. ⁓ I was working at Club Monaco in their retail store design team, which was made up of a lot of people that I had worked with ⁓ at my last job at Tom Felicia. And it was so fun. It was so cool. It was full-time. It was corporate. Not corporate, corporate, but it was a corporation. Club Monaco is owned by Ralph Lauren. So it was like slowly, it got more more corporate. And it was pretty. Leslie Youngblood (08:52) Bye. Sure. huh. Isabella Patrick (09:11) demanding. It was exciting. There was travel and you know, I love my team and but I was like this isn't for me. I'm like spending too much time away from my family and I started getting like little like nibbles like little like friends and family being like, hey, would you be interested in doing this or I have a friend, you know, who's looking for like some help with their living room and that kind of thing. And then, you know, it feels like it sort of just happened. Like I left the job and then all of a sudden I started this business. Leslie Youngblood (09:22) Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (09:41) It was more gradual than that of course, but I didn't leave Club Monaco being like, that's it, I'm gonna go start my own business. But it became very clear that's what was happening. It became very clear and it felt right. And so, here we are. Ta-da. Leslie Youngblood (09:44) you Mmm. you Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And what year was that, Isabella? How long? Isabella Patrick (10:03) So that was 2016 and I would say by 2017 I was picking up a few projects and by 2018 I was like fully you know invested in it and I think 2018 is when I actually went and you know got my like my resale certificate and like got a business name and opened a business bank account and Like, it was funny, somebody wrote me a check, one of my clients wrote a check, not just to my neighbor, to Isabella Patrick Interiors, and I couldn't cash it. At my bank, they're like, well, it's actually your business name. And I was like, great, I should open a business checking account. Leslie Youngblood (10:46) Yes, can we do that too while I'm here, please? Thank you. Isabella Patrick (10:48) Yeah, and while I'm here, let's make everything legit. So that was funny. And I was like, OK, well, now I have a business. Now I really have a business. have the checking book, the checkbook, and the name, and the people are writing me checks. And that's great. Leslie Youngblood (10:57) Yeah. Yeah. Well, and what I think, you too, is you had done the independent like boutique design studio. You did the corporate, you know, learned how it works in like the corporate too. And so it makes perfect sense to then take the best of those worlds and bring it to what you were doing, like have your name on the door and on the checks as well. Was there, what would you say is your biggest takeaway from each of those as like, what was the best thing that you learned from the independent? Isabella Patrick (11:25) huh. Leslie Youngblood (11:32) like studios and then what was the best thing you learned to take away from the corporate because both are good and bad, but I think you learn all the different types of ways that businesses work. And then I think as business owners, we then are kind of like, ⁓ I get to call the shots here and I can do what I want to do and not be like that or not be like this or I really want to do that or that. So what was your take from both of those sides? Isabella Patrick (11:58) I'm interested in question. So I would say from the more boutique studios, it was such an intimate environment. ⁓ Having maintaining really ⁓ healthy relationships with your colleagues is so important. ⁓ Communicating clearly and creating systems to stay organized. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (12:13) Mm. Mmm. Isabella Patrick (12:26) And, you know, meeting people where they are as well. Like if the woman, the designer that I actually worked with at David Netto at that first internship, I mean, she must have been very patient with me. I don't remember her ever getting frustrated, ⁓ you know, as I was like going with the flow. And I was exposed to so much, there was so much trust there because it's such a small space. You know, there wasn't like, you know, closed doors and boardrooms. Leslie Youngblood (12:52) you Right. Isabella Patrick (12:56) So it was really like more of that tight knit sort of a vibe and you really, you you can't just ignore, you can't just like walk past somebody. You have to say I'm having a, I just need a minute to myself or something like that. ⁓ And also when there's somebody like younger who's learning, you know, find opportunities to bring them in and like show them something, you know, give them little bits of information when you can because if someone's Leslie Youngblood (13:10) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (13:26) there and wants to learn, will really appreciate that and ultimately it'll help them and it'll help you. And also healthy styles of communication and not flipping out. I had one boss who was, you know, a little bit, he wasn't a hothead but he was just a little, he got a little excited and in a way that, in a... Leslie Youngblood (13:30) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. nice it's a nice way of putting it Isabella Patrick (13:52) Yeah, he got a little excitable in a way that made people feel really, you know, paralyzed and ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (13:58) Mmm. Isabella Patrick (14:00) you know, it's insulting in a way to treat people that way. And it was kind of an old guard way of doing things. And, you know, for a time I was like, well, I guess this is the way it is. And I had another job where it was even worse than that. ⁓ And I didn't stay there very long. Nobody did. ⁓ And I remember thinking, God, I never want to treat, I would never treat people that way. My very first boss in New York at Young Audiences was the most incredible, incredibly Leslie Youngblood (14:04) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm Isabella Patrick (14:30) supportive person. She appreciated me every time I did something. She like told me I did a good job and I've never experienced that kind of thing in the workplace. It was really like and it was just so such an easy thing to do to say, you know, that was great. I really appreciate that and like little by little you grow your skills. On the corporate side, I would say I learned about, you know, working on a team in a different way because we were a small team amongst many teams. Leslie Youngblood (14:41) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (15:00) and like globally like a really big team and it was really about like dollars and cents there. It was about understanding timelines, understanding how much money you've got and don't got, budgets. Leslie Youngblood (15:03) Right. Mmm. Mmm. Isabella Patrick (15:17) were looked at and scrutinized and, you know, and that's the case in any design project. There's a little more leeway maybe with a residential project where somebody's willing to, you know, shell out a little bit extra that they didn't think they would have to because they've got it saved. But when you're working for a corporation, it's a very different process. Everything has to go through like a different type of approval process. So you have to really have every Leslie Youngblood (15:34) Thank you. Isabella Patrick (15:47) everything ⁓ buttoned up and understand what you know what you can spend and where you can spend it. So understanding your numbers. Leslie Youngblood (15:56) Mm-hmm. Mm, yeah, definitely. What I think is so, I want to go back to what you were talking about with the smaller boutiques and being a young person and having, you could walk by somebody's desk and you don't have to say hi, but you should. And like, that's a skill to learn as well. But I think I was just having a conversation with somebody recently. And while it's so great that we've gone so remote because we can get worked on, you know, for as horrible as the pandemic was, we learned we can get Isabella Patrick (16:13) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (16:26) things done anywhere and remote teams and being able to harness talent from anywhere is a benefit to an organization. But with the young young professionals coming in, you lose that shadow like shadowing people not because not even that because they're like follow Leslie around or follow Isabelle around, but just being in an office and watching or being in office and like sitting at a table in a meeting and just seeing how people react or how they handle like meetings, just like the unspoken things of like being a professional in like a space. And I was like, I never really thought about that, right? Cause I'm not a young person coming anymore, but I was like, yeah, that must be, maybe they don't realize or a lot of us don't even realize that we're never gonna, we should never be fully remote. Like there's so much to be said for being in person too, and having, you know, those lessons that come from that and those water cooler, you know, camaraderie that we all have and that we miss out on because it can be. ⁓ Isabella Patrick (17:19) huh. Leslie Youngblood (17:23) lonesome, to be an entrepreneur, to be growing a small business and to even be a remote worker. So how do you, you know, cultivate those relationships and those opportunities when you're not in person all the time? And so I just think that just again, proof positive, like how important that is to developing a professional and how different would your path be if you hadn't been able to have that in and witness all those things in person to then make your business better now moving forward? Yeah. Isabella Patrick (17:50) Absolutely. I just went to an event yesterday and that's where the relationships happen as you go to events and you pick and choose and you find your social contact and human contact. It's really important to keep doing that as an independent business owner. Leslie Youngblood (17:52) Yeah, for sure. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yes, I always come back to this, you know, as much as we live AI and tech and all in metaverse and you know, all that, there's still so much of business that comes down to person to person interaction and those relationships. And I just think that is so cool because it just shows you how important human to person to person is, regardless of where we go, we're all in headsets or microchip thoughts one day. It's like there will still be Isabella Patrick (18:34) Uh-huh. Leslie Youngblood (18:37) a need, an important, inherent, natural, innate need for that person to person. ⁓ So Isabella, tell us, was there anything in the early days, were there fears or doubts that you had to push through when you were out starting your own studio? Isabella Patrick (18:53) my god, yes. I was like, what the hell am I doing? don't... You know, it's one thing when you're doing a project for a friend or a friend of a friend, which is kind of how it started out. was just starting out at Club Monaco and at the same time, I had just had a baby. And at the same time, a friend's boyfriend who owned a restaurant needed this restaurant renovated, which was very exciting. I was like, well, that's cool. And I was like, I'm on top of the world. I'm like to get this new job. And I got this gig and I had all this energy and I this newborn. So funny when you're younger what you can do. And but when it became like well this is going to be my livelihood. This is ⁓ a little terrifying but you know it's like Leslie Youngblood (19:30) ⁓ it's yummy. Mm. Isabella Patrick (19:45) It was such an exciting challenge too because I really loved it. I was able to, know, like as a mom, right? As any parent, but as a mom. And at that time I was like the parent on the ground. My husband was still going into the office every day. He always had like a real job. And he, he really, I was like, he has the real job. We have our health insurance through my husband, you know, and. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (20:00) Thank Yeah. Isabella Patrick (20:13) That's important. So when I saw how much flexibility I had with working for myself, Leslie Youngblood (20:14) Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (20:22) I I knew that I was like, there's no way I'm ever going to go back. I kind of already knew it, but I didn't really say it out loud until a couple of years later. I'm like, I'm never going to go back to an office. I can't imagine it. ⁓ My kids need me around. haven't this. I'm in my office, which is a studio apartment in my building. So I'm separate from my apartment. Now, it wasn't the case. That wasn't the case when I started out. But, you know, all these things were clear that it was it was working. And so I Leslie Youngblood (20:31) it. thing. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (20:52) I knew I would make it work. I was like, if one person hired me and then a second and then a third and then a fourth and then a fifth, there's gonna be a sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth and tenth. Like they're out there. I just have to find them. I have to figure out how to market myself. And that was probably the biggest challenge. You know, when the word of mouth sort of like fizzled out a little bit because it really was, you know, yeah, there was social media, of course, but I wasn't using that yet. I didn't have a website. Leslie Youngblood (21:02) I know. Right. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (21:22) ⁓ So my network was really limited. So that was really the, that was what was driving sort of those fears of, you know, in the early days and like the little bits of terror that, you know, I don't think it was, I say terror, but I think it was exciting then. Leslie Youngblood (21:25) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm, yes. Isabella Patrick (21:41) It was really exciting. Like I remember I was like, okay, well I have to, don't have a lot of work right now. I'm going to make, I'm going to make a website. And I was like, well, what am I going to put on this website? I was like, wait a minute. I need to photograph a project. And I knew right away that the photography had to be professional. was like, I'm not putting, you know, my own iPhone cameras on a website. So I did probably wait a little bit longer to, you know, have that kind of calling card of a website, but I, Leslie Youngblood (21:52) and right. Isabella Patrick (22:11) started getting really active on Instagram and really focusing it on my business. And people took notice, like people were sending me DMs and my best friend, who we have a lot of friends in common, she actually sat me down one day and she was like, because I was posting photos of like my cats and my kids on Instagram and she's like, what are you doing? Leslie Youngblood (22:17) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You Isabella Patrick (22:36) Why are you, I mean your kids are cute, but like you have to promote your business. You have to promote yourself. Like get your act together, you know? And I was like, okay. So when I did, I was like, okay, okay, I'm gonna figure it out. And so, you know, that was it. It was like figure it out. Leslie Youngblood (22:42) Mm-hmm. I'm not. Yeah, for sure. So would you say when you're like, have to figure out how to market yourself? And I think that is something that is so common for many entrepreneurs. You start off and you have this great momentum and you're telling people and they're like, great, I know somebody and yeah, I'm going to connect you with and you're like, whoa, I'm busy. I'm overwhelmed with work opportunities. And then you do it, do it, do it. And then it kind of like peters out, not all the way, but like it slows down and it's like, I need a pipeline. I need a CRM, I need to do this. And so I have to market myself, like you said. So what steps did you take? Was it specifically Instagram, Isabella, where you're like, yeah, you're right. I am going to pivot and go all in on Instagram. Or was it the website? Getting that up was a game changer. Tell us a little bit about that and what worked for you. Isabella Patrick (23:39) So Instagram was really big. ⁓ I didn't start getting clients from Instagram until a few years later, but it gave me lot of traction and inspired me and it helped me sort of stay on like get onto like a more focused track I would say and Shortly after that I did have a project to photograph and I guess I just started out with one No, I had a couple of older projects on there. I remember now back back before I started the business. It's funny. I had our first apartment photograph by apartment therapy I had a yeah, they did a home tour. I just forgot about that. Um It was a beautiful apartment and I really loved it and it was my first sort of like design project for myself At that level and it wasn't even like we didn't renovate we like painted and got new furniture But I was like, oh my god, this is such a big deal So I had like maybe three projects on there and then I had like I pulled together a portfolio Leslie Youngblood (24:34) you Isabella Patrick (24:41) ⁓ And so that was really helpful because people would and I didn't look at my metrics yet then on on Squarespace I didn't even like know about that stuff yet. I was like, well, it's there So it'd be interesting to see you to go back and see like who was even finding me but you know a lot of what I was doing was like going out and looking for leads, you know, I ⁓ Was using like lead sources like Leslie Youngblood (24:42) Mm-hmm. Who? Mmm. ⁓ Isabella Patrick (25:11) ⁓ Bark? Did you ever hear of bark? It's kind of like thumbtack. Leslie Youngblood (25:14) Hmm. I feel like I've heard of Bark. Yes. Isn't like you hire people to do certain things around your home for you or whatnot? Isabella Patrick (25:23) I think it's that, but I don't even know if it's around anymore, but back then it was, you know, it was like a pretty good platform. And I don't know how people that needed interior designers found out about bark. Leslie Youngblood (25:34) Mmm. Isabella Patrick (25:34) But they were, there were a ton of people looking for interior designers. And so you would, you know, buy, you would basically pay for leads. So there was like a credit system. So you would buy like a hundred credits or whatever, and then they would value each lead at a certain amount. And so I would, you know, look through and, and reach out to people that I thought were maybe going to be a good project fit. And I got some good projects off of that. got like one really great client, then another great client, and then I think a third. Leslie Youngblood (25:43) Mmm. Isabella Patrick (26:03) Maybe there was even a fourth and a fifth that I would have to go back and look at or remember. then I didn't need to do that anymore. I started getting inquiries. There was a little bit more word of mouth. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (26:20) and Isabella Patrick (26:21) I think the Instagram and you know everything feeds to Facebook like that was really my only other Avenue for marketing I didn't you know I live in Manhattan so Mike there isn't like a place that I'm gonna advertise like I'm not gonna put an ad out in a design magazine because those are nationally published and there's no like Pinpointed you know marketing ⁓ Shelter magazine here, so Or there wasn't at the time anyway, and there isn't now actually there there isn't so I really like sort of segwayed into that sort of started to take over and And I had this one client who reached out to me. She was relocating from Ireland and actually she didn't reach out. It was her relocation person. I don't know how they found me. I actually never asked, but that client was moving to Park Slope in Brooklyn and she ended up recommending me on the Park Slope Parents Facebook. ⁓ Not a Facebook group. It's well, they have a group, but there's also a website. It's like this well known people that move away from Brooklyn they're like, oh yes, I'm still on the Park Slope Parents Group because it's just like a wealth of resources and you have to pay to be a member whatever it is like I don't know maybe it's $100 a year I have no idea but that opened up like so many inquiries and so many leads that were all based in Brooklyn which is a little bit of a ways for me to travel I'm in I'm at the very top of Manhattan but it was amazing I mean it was like Leslie Youngblood (27:32) or I don't know. Sure. Hmm. Isabella Patrick (27:56) combined with like the word of mouth of like my growing business and then this one person who had a great experience. just like wrote me this glowing review and recommended me over and over again. And she's like my she's like my angel. You know, she really took. I don't think I don't know if without that the business would have really it would have kept going, of course, and it would have been great. But it would have been a very different trajectory. You know, when you say no to something, something else comes along. So I was saying yes to a lot of those things that were coming my way and not looking elsewhere. So I can't go back and speculate like I know there would have been a great business. Leslie Youngblood (28:21) Thank sorry. Mm. Isabella Patrick (28:34) here today anyway, but it would have been a very different one. And it's funny because now I'm trying to sort of like not work in Brooklyn. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (28:38) Sure. Broccoli just is obsessed with you Isabella and you can't. Isabella Patrick (28:46) Brooklyn was obsessed with me and I loved them to death, it's really far away. It's really just too far away. So yeah, I think those were the main things I did. a little bit of networking, I don't go out and do a ton of stuff, but, and also just learning how to talk to people everywhere I go. Leslie Youngblood (28:53) I don't know about that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a gift to truly, and a skill, for sure. ⁓ What I think is so wonderful there is two things. And so the first thing is that the money always comes, you like, like the, what is it? Like the money is the tail and the work is the hat, or like something, I can't remember what somebody says, but like the money always comes, which I think sometimes can be very maddening. Isabella Patrick (29:31) huh. Leslie Youngblood (29:35) especially when you're starting off and you're like, can't pay my bills and this is money really gonna come. But like when you are truly giving your best and using your gift to its highest and delivering value, it eventually comes. But the second thing is that one person can have such a profound impact on another person, not only that person, but that person's business. And that's why reviews... are so essential and word of mouth is the best kind of marketing. It's most powerful form of marketing. Again, in today's day and age where everything is digital and you have reviews here, there and everywhere, like one person in like a trusted group saying that, yes, like you can trust this person because interior design, especially, is not a low ticket item, right? And like working with you, like it's not like I'm just gonna buy a $300 chair from Ikea. It's like an investment. It's like you're going into their homes. And so, Isabella Patrick (30:20) ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (30:30) And anytime you're investing in that and working with somebody, you want to know that that person is going to be that person for you. And you're going to have a great experience. Right. Like the the end point is like a beautifully designed like home and sanctuary. But it has potential to go very wrong. Everybody, I'm sure, also has a horror story. Right. And so just to know, like the power of of paying it forward in that way, like so anybody listening to. Isabella Patrick (30:39) huh. Mm-hmm. Leslie Youngblood (30:57) you didn't ask for that review from that person, they just did it out of their own accord, but to also, to not be afraid to go to your customers or clients and say, can you give me a review here? Can I put this case study on my site? Because that really does drive so much opportunity for a growing business, such as anybody may have. So I just think that's so fantastic. And I think it's also too funny for anybody listening is, Isabella Patrick (31:08) huh. Mm-hmm. Leslie Youngblood (31:24) they hear that you're in Manhattan and think, well, Brooklyn's just right there. But Brooklyn is not just right there, especially when you're at the top of Manhattan. So it can be very hard. Isabella Patrick (31:33) It's true, Manhattan is long and tall. Leslie Youngblood (31:39) So Isabella, thank you so much for walking us through like the marketing and the growing up your business. So relatedly, as you're getting more business, more opportunities, there's additional things that come into play. The operational stuff, the business side, running a creative business, being a creative minded person. How do you protect your creative energy? Number one, but How do you deal with the business side? Do you feel like it's ever overshadowed the creative side? I would love for you to give us your take on that. Those two things. Isabella Patrick (32:10) Wow. Well. You know, recently I've heard a lot of people say in a lot of other designers, you know, say this and we're all nodding our heads. It's like, it's like 15 % design and 85 % running business. So 85 % of its operations. Um, and I think a lot of people don't realize that because they're like, Oh, it's this woman who owns her business. And they picture me sitting in my dining room table with a laptop and the latte and a puppy. Leslie Youngblood (32:26) I'm I'm. Isabella Patrick (32:42) and a few color samples. And sometimes that's true. Sometimes I'm like, I'm just going to work from home today. And that's how it starts out for sure. ⁓ That's exactly how it started out. But as your business grows, you've got to bring in people to help you run your business. Otherwise, your business won't grow. I'm sure there's people out there that are like, Leslie Youngblood (32:45) Cheers. Mm-hmm. in Isabella Patrick (33:12) maybe doing one small project at a time and that's their comfort zone and that's their business and that's fantastic. But at a certain point, like that's really fiscally doesn't work because you start to, you you're bringing in money. So you want to make sure that you're doing that legally and properly. So I think one of the first people I brought in was my amazing accountant who I don't even know. I can't even imagine and I don't want to imagine working without him. And I found him on Facebook because Leslie Youngblood (33:27) Hmm. Isabella Patrick (33:42) because I use a platform called Ivy for my client facing proposals and invoices and then it syncs with QuickBooks. So it's also kind of our accounting system and it's a platform based on Houzz, which a lot of people are familiar with. So Houzz now owns Ivy, but anyway, so he specializes in that. And so he is like amazing. So he was my first, he was like my first like team member. And then I was like, my God, I'm doing Leslie Youngblood (33:56) Mmm. Isabella Patrick (34:11) so many things wrong. And he's like, okay, Isabella, it's time to go from being a sole proprietor to like incorporating. You've got to do it. And after, you know, a certain number of years, I needed help. I, it was actually right. It was right as COVID was hitting us that I was like, I'm going to bring on a junior designer. So I was starting to interview people and then it was COVID. Like it was literally that day. Leslie Youngblood (34:33) Hmm. Yeah. Isabella Patrick (34:41) was like March 13th or something I had somebody come in for an interview and then everything shut down so ⁓ so eventually when I did start bringing on like junior designers I had somebody on full-time so Bradford my accountant was like okay you've got to start a payroll it's expensive to run a payroll it's not just like yeah Leslie Youngblood (34:43) Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. It's expensive to have an employee. It's expensive. Wait, uh-huh. Isabella Patrick (35:04) It's expensive, it's expensive for me to have myself as an employee. I'm now my own employee and I pay more in payroll taxes than you would even, well you probably know, but a lot of people would be like, what? So that's one thing. And then, you know, I have my financial advisor on the other end from our family side who's like, well now you own a business with Ballot, we're talk about that. Leslie Youngblood (35:12) Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Isabella Patrick (35:26) What kind of insurance do you have? I'm like, none. He's like, okay, you have to talk to Larry. workers comp, you've got to get workers comp, otherwise you will get audited and you will get screwed. You've got to have business owners insurance. I think I have three different insurance policies just that I have to have protecting me that are not cheap. But they just are part of like, they're just part of it now. Like that's huge. And just staying on top of that, understanding that. Leslie Youngblood (35:30) Hehehehe. Hehehehe. Thanks. Right. Isabella Patrick (35:57) And then another person who has been absolutely key to my business ⁓ growth and like business health is, well, first of all, I joined a coaching group years ago, like probably 2021 with an amazing coach named Desi Creswell, who I highly, highly recommend for ⁓ anybody who she's a good fit for. She's a very like, it's a very in-depth like business coach. Leslie Youngblood (36:11) Bye! ⁓ Isabella Patrick (36:26) coaching for interior designers. And that helped me identify so many areas where my business had no systems and processes where it needed it. And also my mindset. It was a very heavily mindset focused process where you discover, like, oh, wait a minute, am I a people pleaser? Am I saying yes to everything? Why am I overwhelmed? I'm overwhelmed because I'm trying to do everything all at once and that you can't do Leslie Youngblood (36:28) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (36:55) that. And so there's this pressure as a small business owner of like you have to respond to your emails right away. You have to respond to your texts right away. You have to get everything done at the same time all the time. And like that's just impossible. But you don't stop to tell yourself it's impossible. I just got to do it. I just got to do it. And it was just like it had come to a head and I was like I can't go on like this. I need to figure something out. So that's like a whole separate podcast Leslie. I can't even get into that. But that that allowed me to level up and to see Leslie Youngblood (37:07) Yeah. Bye. Yeah! Isabella Patrick (37:25) to learn how to set boundaries, which were really the things that ended up making the business the healthiest it's ever been. And I worked with Desi, I did two sessions with her. They were group sessions, it was amazing. So there was just a community of women all learning together, learning from each other. There was workbooks, there was like, I still use her workbooks now because she taught us so many different models to use for how to think about things. Leslie Youngblood (37:32) Wow, amazing. Isabella Patrick (37:54) I have a few of her phrases taped to my monitors. One of my favorite things that she always said was, there is a solution. Leslie Youngblood (37:59) Sure. Isabella Patrick (38:05) And the other thing that I love is how can I make this simple? Like when you're stuck in the thing, like, I don't know what to do. did, I could do this. But how can I make this simple? And it's really just like, take one little step and then sometimes that opens up the whole thing for you and like clears out all the cobwebs. So. Leslie Youngblood (38:08) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Isabella Patrick (38:25) That was incredible. And then I brought on, I have more of like a permanent business consultant on my team who helps me with operations. Her name is Brooke Stoll and she is incredible. And she and I meet twice a month and we go through like all of the operations things that are on the table, press. ⁓ open items, ⁓ you know, lead funnels, et cetera, like all of the things. And she holds me accountable for a lot and helps me stay motivated and supports me as my cheerleader has become my friend. And so that like team is is is critical. And yeah, I don't know if I divert like diverged from the question. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (39:09) No, that's the operational process. so you so hiring and on that help allows you to focus on the creative side that you are good at. You have these people that are good at that tactical operational business side. Because if you kept trying to split yourself into all those pieces, you would crash and burn. But you bring those experts on so you can focus on what lights you up that zone of genius, right? Like a lot of people say. So I think that's Isabella Patrick (39:18) Yes, the creative side. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yes. Leslie Youngblood (39:39) that's so important because that's why you started your business is to design and to do those things. you do have to and not to say that you're hands off in any of those, you're still very hands on. But there are experts dedicated to those helping you move the ship forward. You're not you're not running the ship solo. Isabella Patrick (39:43) ⁓ Yes. And hiring people. in their zone of genius is I love that phrase that's come out like in the last few years because it's so true. mean, people, these people that I have on my team, they are in their zone of genius. And I feel so lucky because I don't know if they're taking on new clients. I don't know what their, you know, what their rates are. don't know for, for new people, what they're charging, but like I got on board with them and I saw their value right away. And it was the same for anybody that worked for me. had so many like great junior designers that worked for me and most of them wanted to Leslie Youngblood (40:20) Thank Yeah. Isabella Patrick (40:29) go off and start their own business. And two of them have, and they're doing great, and I'm so proud of them and they're so talented. ⁓ And they also allowed me to protect my creativity. That was one of your other, the other part of the question, which is such an interesting way of putting it. I never thought of it as something that I have to protect. ⁓ I guess it's something that I believe in, and I've learned how to, Leslie Youngblood (40:31) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (40:59) ⁓ Believe in myself for not like of course. There's the imposter syndrome all the time. mean not all the time but from time to time like any business owner or anybody who's anybody who's trying to Authentically be better and doesn't have an absolutely enormous ego has got to have imposter syndrome, right? It's a check. It's you get to get a check in with yourself, you know but ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (41:19) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (41:24) Yeah, I guess just being really confident in my creativity and that's taken is my protection is knowing that I have, ⁓ you know, a vision that people would like for me to share with them, you know, and that's such an honor. Like you want me to tell you how you want me to design your home. my God, I would love to. Leslie Youngblood (41:32) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah, that's... yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's such a gift. I love it so much. just think being a creative is such a gift and that yes, people want your art, your design, like what's inside your brain. They wanna see how you, they love so much what you bring that nobody else like brings. It's like you and your unique perspective. I think it's, yeah, it's like magical, right? Like I just think it's like so magical and like spiritual like even, right? And like that design. Isabella Patrick (42:12) huh. Mm-hmm. Leslie Youngblood (42:18) come to life because you're channeling something and making it physical. I just think it's the coolest thing ever in the creative world. So we talked about protecting your creativity. We talked about you bringing and getting more inquiries in business. And you talked about boundaries, Isabella. Tell us about a time, if this is something that you encountered, about where you might have had to said no to something. Isabella Patrick (42:24) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (42:43) And was it difficult for you or like a client that you're like, I really want to work with them, but maybe my gut's telling me no, or I'm just too overwhelmed. But I really want to. And you said yes. And then you were overwhelmed. Like, was there ever a time where you had to say no in the situation that ensued from there? Isabella Patrick (43:00) There was a client that I wait listed and we had a discovery call and I said, know, this sounds great. It in Brooklyn, of course. Leslie Youngblood (43:17) Of course. Isabella Patrick (43:18) And of course, and I said, I, you know, we have a wait list right now. And so we know, would you be willing to wait, you know, till November or whatever it was? And he said, yeah, we we would like to wait. And I was like, okay, great. So the time came and we set our kickoff meeting. And I think, I don't remember if they paid me or not. It's funny, I think that was the one time where I was like, I have the contract and they signed it, but they haven't given me the check yet. You know, I took a retainer ⁓ before we start a project. ⁓ So anyway, I and met with them and, I wasn't worried. I wasn't like, they're going to run for the hills, but just note to self, don't divert from your process. was, I was really busy at the time. And so I probably shouldn't have taken that project on anyway. And I didn't. Leslie Youngblood (43:54) I don't know. Isabella Patrick (44:13) because when I met with them, I was like, I don't know what it is, but these people are lovely. I'm sure they're very nice people, but they were, we weren't speaking the same language. Like they had waited and they wanted to work with me. And the things that they wanted in their home, they couldn't see what the real problems were. Leslie Youngblood (44:13) and Isabella Patrick (44:38) So they wanted to, you know, create a certain type of space, but, and then what they were describing, I was like, I don't know how that is even possible. ⁓ You can't achieve that here because the layout is X but you want it to be Y. So what we can do is, you know, Z. And they were like, but what we really need is, you know, like they just weren't getting it. They weren't understanding like right off the bat, like the solutions that I was providing and that I was suggesting. And... Leslie Youngblood (44:50) you Mm-hmm. Hmm. Isabella Patrick (45:15) I don't want this to sound, you know, like unkind, but what I saw was like, I think they have like their young parents and they're coping with a lot. I think they're really overwhelmed and they have developed like coping mechanisms for their lifestyle that don't align with the design vision that they want. So it was like, it was, I don't know if that makes any sense, but Leslie Youngblood (45:34) Mmm. Isabella Patrick (45:43) I saw how they lived and I couldn't imagine that they would be pleased with anything I would suggest because I didn't believe that they would buy into what I thought they needed, what I saw that they needed. So they thought they needed like a dresser from West Elm to solve a problem and I said, Leslie Youngblood (45:45) This it. right. Isabella Patrick (46:03) what we actually need, what you actually would need to do here is to build a custom piece, you know, floor to ceiling. And they're like, we don't want custom. We don't want custom. And I'm like, well, then the thing that you want can't happen. You're not going to get that lifestyle solution, that day-to-day function from a dresser from West Elm. That's what you have now and it's not working for you. Like, well, what we move it over here? And I'm like, it was like that. Leslie Youngblood (46:17) Right. Right, right, got it. That's not what I do. Isabella Patrick (46:31) that it was very, it was very like, we were like not, you know, and it was, I remember I walked away and I was like, they're like, okay, great. And I had a really hard time, and this is rare, I had a really hard time like keeping them focused and like keeping them on track with like the way I would run that type of meeting. ⁓ And they also had so much stuff. Leslie Youngblood (46:36) huh. Good. Isabella Patrick (46:56) They had a lot of stuff. that was the thing. It was like people don't see how much stuff they have. And I'm not judging it, but I'm just like, I imagine that's why I'm here to help you ⁓ is to help you put some of the stuff away, find a home for it, find a way if you maybe want to get rid of some of it. Yeah. Cut it down or like organize it, you know, and like they weren't seeing it. They weren't getting it. And it's really hard. You know, I can see it was going to be really difficult. And so ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (47:02) Right. Yes. Spot it! Isabella Patrick (47:27) I was driving back from that meeting and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with these people because I think everything's gonna be an uphill battle. Leslie Youngblood (47:36) Mm-hmm. Isabella Patrick (47:38) And I was like, it's going to be awful to break up with them because we just met and they waited to work with me. And I felt terrible. But I was like, but I'm going to feel worse and I'm to be resentful the whole time we work together if I don't cut them loose. And I did. And they were not happy. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (47:51) children. Mm-hmm. you Isabella Patrick (47:59) And I just, I don't remember how I phrased it. I just said, you know what? The scope is a little bit different than what I, what you described it to be, which is true. You don't know until you get there. And you know, I was very nice about it. And ⁓ I think it was the right thing to do. I... Leslie Youngblood (48:09) Right? Isabella Patrick (48:21) feel like they found somebody else or they went another direction. I mean, they had to have because we didn't move forward. But I just knew that I didn't feel confident I could give them what they wanted because we weren't talking about the same thing. Leslie Youngblood (48:28) Mm-hmm. Right, right. That, and I think here's, you have, listen, even if they were a lovely people and you just didn't vibe with them, like you don't have to work, you don't have to choose to work with them. Like that's the beauty of being a business owner. You could decide, we get to choose. ⁓ But it's, but it's never that black and white or it's never easy regardless to say that something's not working or. Isabella Patrick (48:48) Yeah. No. Leslie Youngblood (49:01) we're going in a different direction or the bright like how do you put it nicely that I just don't think this is going to work something in my gut is telling me no when you know it's a a page it's a paycheck and like it's like a revenue for like the business but I think anytime we do do that you avoid like you said like it probably would have been a very difficult project they probably you know never would have been happy like anybody that is in b2b or service knows Isabella Patrick (49:06) Mm-hmm. Leslie Youngblood (49:27) they know when you are meeting with a potential client and you get a vibe like this person's gonna make me a little crazy. And I say yes, or because I still like them or we, for whatever reason you still do it. And it's like, you're always proven right by what you think is going to go down. And so to follow that intuition and, you know, that's so incredibly courageous, I think like too, that you did that because you didn't have to. And I'm sure, like you said, like something else, a new project came along to take that place. Isabella Patrick (49:33) Hmm. huh. Leslie Youngblood (49:56) And so think it's a very valuable lesson to share. Isabella, one question that I have as we wrap up for you today is for any woman listening right now that's just started a business or considering starting a business, what advice would you have for her? Isabella Patrick (49:59) Yeah. Yes. Wow, okay. Well, first of all, believe in yourself. You have a vision. And like Desi taught me, just like start somewhere, you know, start somewhere and talk to people. find somebody who you admire who's in that business or adjacent to that business or someone who you just trust and keep, you know, keep that like little seed growing into something, you know, and try things out because you really have to kind of throw everything at the wall. ⁓ There isn't a playbook for anybody. mean, there's a playbook for becoming a doctor, but Leslie Youngblood (50:57) Hehehehe Isabella Patrick (50:58) ⁓ So if that's what you want to do, go to medical school. ⁓ But if you want to start a business, there's like an infinite amount of resources out there now and you've got to ask for things. I met a young college student who was graduating ⁓ when I was on a business trip to North Carolina a few months ago. And I was exhausted and I wanted to walk around, so I didn't want to go to bed yet. And I wandered into this coffee shop and I got a coffee and this young woman who was a cashier Leslie Youngblood (51:01) huh. Isabella Patrick (51:28) was like so friendly and cheerful, sort of chatting, and she was like, I want to be an actress. my God, you're from New York. I'm going to New York and da da. And she's like, what advice do you have for me? And I said, ask people for things. Ask them. They can always say no. But if you walk away and you never see them again, then you'll never know. Leslie Youngblood (51:42) Right. Isabella Patrick (51:51) And so at the end of our conversation, she's like, could I have your email address and your phone number? I said, absolutely. Here it is. know, when you're in. Yeah. Yeah. So and that's where it maybe that's the start somewhere, you know, is the ask for things. Leslie Youngblood (51:54) You right? Good job. Pass. Yeah, love that because I think also too, as women were conditioned to not ask for things, right? boys and men are raised like take, ask, like, and you know, it's just a different frame of reference. so, and I feel like I recognize that once in like my last corporate job where like my direct report was just like, did something without asking. And I was like, inside I was like horrified, but I was like, it's because they're a dude. Isabella Patrick (52:12) huh. Leslie Youngblood (52:34) like, it doesn't register for them. For me, I would never think to do that, but that's because I'm a woman. I've been conditioned not to do that. And there's nothing wrong with that. They weren't out of line. It was totally normal, totally in the wheelhouse, but it just kind of like, like turned my brain a bit. And I was like, damn, like even something like smaller than they in the day to day, let alone something that can lead to success for you in your business and like your professional life too. So I love that advice so much. I love everything that you have shared today, Isabella. Thank you so much for taking the time. Isabella Patrick (52:35) Mm-hmm. yeah Thank you. Leslie Youngblood (53:04) to spend with us here on Serious Lady Business. Before we wrap up, would also love for you to share where our listeners can follow up with you outside of this podcast today. Isabella Patrick (53:12) yes, well first of all, thank you so much. This was so fun. I talk and talk and talk with you about all kinds of things. It was so much fun. So you can find me on Instagram at Isabella Patrick Interiors. It's two L's, Isabella Patrick Interiors. And isabellapatrickinteriors.com is my website. And that's pretty much where I am. Leslie Youngblood (53:17) I know. Awesome. right. And yeah, everybody go follow Isabella, go to the website, look at the incredible work that she has done, her incredible journey that she has so graciously shared with us today. Isabella, again, thank you so much. We'll be following you on Instagram and can't wait to see more of your incredible designs. Thank you. Bye. Isabella Patrick (53:53) Thank you, Leslie. Bye.