Latest / Sutra Squad / Ep. 30 Sutra 2.36 On the Second of the Yamas - Satya or Truth
Transcript
- Seth Barron: Hi Sutra Squad family. Before we start today's episode, we wanted to extend a special invitation for you to join us at Sacred India 2027, our pilgrimage along the sacred Ganges River in India. We'll be starting in Dev Prayag, where the last tributaries connect and the Ganga begins. We'll go down to the holy city of Rishikesh. We'll go on to Praya Graj, where the Yamuna meets the Ganges and this mystical Sarasvati River is said to join, and ending the trip in the holiest of holy cities. Varanasi, and every day we'll offer yogic practice. I'm gonna be offering power. I'll be offering satsang on the Yoga Sutra. And I'll be offering restorative yin and nature practice. Plus, if you've ever wanted to see the magic of the Sutra Squad podcast, we'll be recording a few special live episodes along the way. So all the information is live at sutrasquad.com. Click on the link for pilgrimage. You can find everything you need to know, and we really hope you'll be able to join us. On with the show. Truth is change. It is the fundamental nature of the material realm. And the nature of the spiritual realm is that which is unchanged, unchangeable, and unchanging. How do we sit with that? Hello and welcome to the Sutra Squad podcast brought to you by One Deep Breath. My name is Seth Barron, and it is a thrill to be with the Superstar Sutra Squad, Sarah Page Hall. Hello, everybody. Hello. And Sally Moore. Welcome. Sally, one word, you right now. Excited. Sarah Page? You stole it, so I'm going a little deeper, euphoric. I, ⁓ my word is optimistic. Trying not to have that be too much about expectation, but just about possibility. Okay. So it is ⁓ we are in like just such a delicious, juicy part of our study. ⁓ we are in like what I think is really, I'm gonna say this over and over again for the next several many episodes, but like we're in the we are walking up the spine of yoga. We are examining the series of the yamas. And this is in the second chapter of the Yoga Sutra, the chapter on practice, the sadhana padda. The first chapter, the samadhipada, is the instruction on the you could say what arises or the eventual outcomes of yoga. I don't I think goal is a little tricky. And then in the sadhana pada, we talk about we're talking about practice. And you know, something I love to say, especially when I teach yoga philosophy, is that even the word philosophy is a little tricky. Cause like we have that as this sort of like intellectual pursuit. And that is also a very real practice, like jnanam yoga, the yoga of wisdom and knowledge, is a very real and ancient practice of yoga. It's described in the Bhagavad Gita. And, and, and, and, ⁓ yoga is not a theoretical practice. Yoga is not A ⁓ when so, like I think in in the West, when we say philosophy, we think of it as like in a classroom and we think of like, you know, as like sitting and exploring the meaning of life. And we are, by the way, talking very much about the meaning of life. ⁓ but yoga is an embodied philosophy. It is not a philosophy of blind faith. It's a philosophy of practice and that it is discovered in action in practice. So In the sadhana paddha is where we really like get into that with more depth. Sadhana, again, it means spiritual practice. And when we after learning some of the essence of that practice and the obstacles to that practice, and we get to the heart, the ashtanga yoga of the eight limbs. Of yoga, yama, niyama, asana, pranayama, pratyahara, dhaharana, dhahyana, samadhi. And then there are five yamas and five niyamas. And yama sort of means like restraint or observance. And I think of it as the like yamas are the outward observances, like how the yogi is to be in the world. And then what we're gonna get to are the niyamas, and ni means within. So the niyamas, like the internal observances and practices. So last week we talked about the first of these yamas, ahimsa. Ahimsa means to not harm, it means nonviolence. And we talked about how ⁓ there's like, again, there's an outer and an inner sense of ahimsa. And I I love this teaching that whether That that we karm, we cause harm, we cause himsa in words and actions and in thought. And it's said that like our actions harm the physical body, our words can harm the emotional body, but our thoughts harm the spiritual body. And that all of our thoughts, words, and actions that are himsick, that that cause harm to others begin With a thought in our own mind. And so they are fundamentally himsick to the self, right? The harm we cause others begins with harm to self. And that's not telling us, that's not like a way of like raking ourselves over the coals. It is a way of acknowledging that we're accountable for that harm. And that we have to be sometimes fearlessly honest with ourselves about. The thoughts that incept all of our words and actions. And it said that when when we when w the yogi, when the practitioner is firmly established in the practice of ahimsa, all enmity around them ceases. It's like that way, like when you're when somebody's upset with you and they start yelling at you and you yell back and everything just like there's nowhere to go. Right? You fight fire with fire and you get destruction and ash. Okay. ⁓ That's all that there is. When you, if you've ever had the experience of doing the opposite, of taking a deep breath and calmly like hearing somebody and saying, I I hear that you're really upset. So often the other party is actually quite like flustered because they sort of don't know. They ex they were they were like geared up for the fight. Or when the first thing you say is, Hey, I I'm not surprised to hear that you're really upset. Can I just before you like, I want to hear what you have to say. And I just want you to know that like really sorry. I I really screwed up. And I like I I it's like I totally have like give it to me. I want to hear about the impact of my action because it's but I just want you to know that like I'm and and then all of a sudden they're like ⁓ like it's hard to be mad when somebody is treating you so kindly and res and respectfully. ⁓ and I and it and and I love the way Dr. Martin Luther King, great wisdom teacher, framed that, you know Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. And I firmly believe that is like one of the most beautiful ways that this idea of ahimsa has ever been captured in modern thought. That like hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that. And that is literally that sense, like Ahimsa Pratistayam, firmly established. And then around it, like there is no enmity. It radiates out. And this week we are talking about the second Yama, which is the principle of satya. And satya means truth or truthfulness. And so we will chant, I will chant the verse, and then we'll get into all of its amazing and complex and beautiful meanings. If it is possible, you can take a moment and just sit up nice and tall. And maybe bring your hands together in front of your heart. If you'd like you can close your eyes. Take a deep breath in with me. Let all that air out. And please feel free to join me in one vibration of Mm. Chanting Yoga Sutra two thirty six. Satisam krivan. Satisam kri Satisam kri Satya pratistayam kriya fala asra asra asrayatvam. So we talked last week about that word pratistayam to be firmly established. And there's the root in Sanskrit stha, s t a when transliter transliterated in English. And that's not stha like seth. In Sanskrit, the H's are aspirated sounds. So it's tha, right? Stha. You like make the H sound. So stha is to stand firmly. ⁓ to be firmly like grounded down into like erva upward stasana, upward stance, right? That the the way that like if you think about extended mountain pose as we call it in English, Irvastasana requires a lengthening down, like a grounding down into the four corners of the feet, and then they're like, and that like the even like the there's the tailbone moving down, the front of the pelvis lifting up. The upper body lifting up, the low ribs that stay integrated in, and then the energy going is like it feels like it's going down and up at the same time. So there's that sense of pratistayam, that stallished found like a foundation. And then this word Kriya, and we've ⁓ talked about Kriya before. Kriya Yoga is the first verse of the second chapter in the Yoga Sutra. The s the beginning of the sadhanapada starts with tapasvada ishvara pranidhana kriya yoga is the verse. And it means that tapas, austerity or heat, or burning desire, svadhyaya, the study of the self, and ishvara pranidhana is That surrender to the divine are the essence of the yoga of action. So kriya means action. Fala is like fruit, consequence, and asrayatvam is to be in harmony with. So the translation as I quite like this one from Jagannath Karera in Inside Patanjali's words, on being firmly grounded in truthfulness. Every thought, word, and deed will be an expression of the nature of sat truth, existence, that which is good, real, authentic, wise, venerable, and is in harmony with the essential nature of a being. So before we get much, much further along, Sarah Page or Sally, what is ⁓ I know I almost just said Sarah and then I was like, That's weird. I never call you Sarah. It's always Sarah Page. Who's she? Who is that? Always yeah, who's she? is there a translation of this verse that really called to your heart? There were many to be blunt. ⁓ and so I'm trying to something that I that was interesting and and a common thread through ⁓ the ones that I looked at, which were many, is that when we speak truth it becomes real. What we say in truth becomes manifest. So one of the things I got from the Jivan Mukti I have two, if that's okay. Jiva Mukti chant book, ⁓ Sharon Gannon. When one does not defile one's speech with lies, the words one says are listened to and acted upon in a positive and immediate manner. Now this is where it goes. The speaker will be able to say what they mean, and what one says becomes true. Which I love. And then in the textbook of yoga ps psychology says when the mind so glad you're gonna do this one, yeah. Yeah. When the mind is firmly grounded in truth, performed actions begin to bear results immediately. And then at the end it goes, When a yogin's mind is established in nothing but truth, his every word springs emotion becomes full of truth and a blessing to others. I love I forgot about the blessing to others. I love that. If y'all can find this book, it is well worth it. It is Yeah, it's a really good one. The textbook of yoga psychology. It's hard to find. Hard to find. But it's really good. Yeah, it is. It's really good. Sally, what about you? Is there another translation? I know there's a couple other sources you like. This one's from inside Patanjali's words. He just went on and he said, Being in a clear, unselfish relationship with the ways and wisdom of life. This is why the truth will set you free. Free from biases, misperceptions, anxiety. The mind no longer has to carry the burden of ignorance. And I really thought about it, and I can't remember in which one I read. Like, we also could be open to the truth that our truth changes, right? I was thinking about, I was thinking about this on a walk, and I was like, okay, can we say without a doubt that gravity exists on planet Earth? Like I think we can say that. Can we? I don't know on planet Earth. I mean, most of the time. Yeah. So it's I think there's some physicists in Sw in Switzerland at the at the at the large particle collider who might have some thoughts. Okay. Well, I thought about like I was considering that because then when I was considering things at different times I thought were true, you know, and this is gonna I'm just gonna share this. Whatever. ⁓ when I got divorced, my ex husband cheated on me a few times. And I created a truth that people who cheat are bad. Mm. And I held on to that truth for a while. And then I started meeting people who Have ⁓ the cheat. I'll call it cheat. I don't know what else to call it. And they're really good, wonderful people. And I started reconsidering while I was walking. And that's why I wanted to lean onto gravity. I needed to find something. I was like, okay, while I'm walking, I feel the gravity holding me onto the ground. Every step I can feel gravity under me. That feels like a a deep truth to me. But this cheating story I had, I don't know that it It's gonna sound crazy, but it has that much to do with people being good or bad. Life happens, we make choices, you know. And so that was one of the places somewhere I d don't know which book I saw it is like p be open to reevaluating what you consider true. I can't believe you went there, Sally, because I was just thinking with my personal experience, I had also been, you know, cheated on. And ⁓ I remember thinking and I was having this conversation with myself and but I was just thinking it before you said it. I forgave the cheater, the person, but I don't know that I have to really forgive the act of it. You know, I don't know that I don't know that I really have to do that. That is not a good thing. I'm not gonna and I don't love the words good or bad, but it is not a helpful thing to be dishonest, untruthful in a relationship. So but so I forgave the person and I did that in my own time. You know, I didn't bypass, I didn't say, you know, hurt people, hurt people, or any of that. I didn't do that. I let it work its way through naturally and organically, and I have forgiven them. And though, have I forgiven the action of the cheating prop and I don't know that it needs forgiveness. I don't but I don't absolve them of that behavior. Because the behavior that was was deeply ⁓ was deeply himself. Yeah. It was deep in his drive to my my was driving my grandson to ⁓ drop him off to spend time with his dad. And all three grandkids were in the back of the car, which is the cutest thing. I had to buy like a narrow car seats to get three in the back of my normal car. And I and and Bodhi was saying, 'cause we there's so much like kindergarten learning, you know. And he was telling his two year old cousin Cooper, he said, You have to play this game. And he was pretending that she was him and all this stuff. And I said, Well, I don't think she has to play that game. And he was like, ⁓ you're so wrong. Like at school, it's a rule. Like people have to play the game. And I go, Wait, are you saying that it's a rule that people need to be included? Cause I we it was like this funny conversation about, ⁓ no. Everyone needs to be included. Like in this car right now, we're all included, but nobody has to do something they don't want to do. And so it was this this conversation about being excluded and included. And then the truth he's really into no, it's a rule. I'm gonna take you. You gotta come talk to my kindergarten teacher tomorrow and she will explain to you. Anyway, I don't know if I've kind of gone course a little bit. I I want to be there. I am reciprocated ⁓ for our Bodhi Bodhi f Bodhi for president. Yeah. Wisdom. No, but you know, it just got me thinking about learning about truth and having the skill or the practices to evaluate what we believe and how how many times have I believed when I was very first teaching yoga, square your hips in in ⁓ warrior one. And then down the road, it was like, that doesn't work for everybody. Like maybe square your chest. Like there's a long rotation here, you know? And so it just was funny because I remember the first time someone suggested to me that that wasn't, I think it was Lupa, like that wasn't necessary. And I was like, but you taught me this. And once again it's like, can we keep evaluating What's true? And you know what's interesting. So let's get into this. Sorry, Sir Paige Go, but I wanna ⁓ get into this question. Yeah, because what I like too is that the truth doesn't have to hurt either. We were talking about this at the beginning of cl of, you know, in the pre our little pre-show time. You know, I I come from the lands of or the land of bless your heart. I'm from the deep south. So anytime that somebody says bless your heart or bless her heart, nothing good comes after that. And ⁓ nothing good really comes after I just have to speak my truth. Do ya? You know, is it is it, you know, I love Let's put it can we put a pin there for a second? Cause let's get into what this truth thing is. Okay. I think this is really important to to get into what does it mean? Satya, the root is sat. And it shows up in a lot of different places. Like one of the framings is sat asat. What is true and asat. What is not true? The Yah is from Satya. So like it shows up in one of my tr like really one of one of Seth's greatest hits of of mantra Asatoma Sadgamaya, Tamasoma Jyotir Gamaya, Mrityorma Amritam Gamaya. So Asatoma from that which is not true. Asatoma Sadgamaya. To the truth. So the translation is may we move from the untruth to the truth. Tamasoma jyotir gamaya. From that which is dark, dhamas, like in the gunas, like in Ayurveda and in the yogic energetic system. Tamasoma Jyotir. Jyotir is the effulgent inner light of divine presence, is one definition. So from the darkness, let us go toward the light. Mrityarma Amritam Gamaya. Mrit is the root that means death or ⁓ or like impermanence. So mrityurma from that which dies, amritam gamaya to that which is eternal. Om shanti, like in in peace. Like can we find the peace of that movement? So it but it's so so again though, it it it it's worth a moment to really consider. And I was having this conversation at the studio on Saturday about the truth. And what does it mean? What is it, what is what is really true? And someone said to me, Well, everything changes, and that's like the truth. That's the highest truth. And I was like, Is it the highest truth? It is that is like because the nature of the material realm is change and flux. Right. It said, we've talked about this in the show before, the gunas. The three material modes of energy, tamas, rajas, and sattva. Hear the root there again, sat, tamas, the mode of ignorance, rajas, the mode of action, sattva, the mode of purity, holiness, light. So there's this and it said that the gunas are all things in all prakriti, in all material nature, are these three forms of energy, and they're in constant mutation. Right. As a preview to the end of the Yoga Sutra, one of the things that it that is said is that like this whole sequence continues until one transcends even the gunas and everything returns back to original source. So there's the truth, there is a satya to that sense that everything changes, nothing is static. Even the sense that like Stillness, perceived stillness, is actually like part of the illusion of Maya of the material realm. Because at the like your body is still, but your heart is beating. So it is not still. You are breathing. So your lungs are expanding and contracting, and they are not still. Feels like you're still, but you are not still. Your blood is moving, electricity is firing. And that's like a physical motion of electrons, right, through the through the flesh computer of your brain. So there's like an external truth. This is a perfect analogy. ⁓ there's an external truth, which is my body is still like I'm in sitting in meditation and I'm not moving, I'm not fidgeting, I'm still. But the internal body has all this movement. And then at the subatomic level, it's all vibration. Because if you remember back to seventh, eighth grade chemistry and you looked at the like molecular chemical formula of of like the atomic or the periodic table, the number of protons, neutrons, and electrons in an atom, the the electrons are not like they they're in constant spinning, swirling. So like they're in constant motion. Motion is the actual truth of the material realm. So everything changes, nothing is staying the same, everything is in motion. What we appear to be sitting still, the earth is revolving. And what appears to be still is in revolution and in motion in regard to the sun, right? We're in motion and orbit around it. The sun is in a big, long extended orbit around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. The Milky Way galaxy is in motion in relation to other galactic bodies and in a web of dark matter that we don't fully perceive, understand, or know how to explain quite yet. So the material world, the nature of its truth, of that satya, is the motion. And I once heard this definition, which I quite loved spiritual truth, the truth in the realm of purusa. So this is all prakriti. Is that which is true that unconditioned by time, place, or context. And if you remember, as a throwback in our study, we talked about Ishvara, which is in English it's translated as God. And it is not God in a fixed sense the way most of us were entrained in Western ⁓ Abrahamic faith lineages, right? ⁓ where we sort of have this sense of God is this like white guy in a beard and it's this one thing and it's the only way. There's this one way to know God. Ishvara is the personal experience of the divine. And Master Patanjali in the Yoga Sutra, it's ⁓ always important to say yoga is not a religion, yoga is a deeply spiritual practice. And there is no fixed definition of God in the Yoga Sutra. It doesn't say Krishna, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma. It doesn't give a name. It just says Ishvara, which has a sense of choice and agency. But he describes the nature of Ishvara. Verse 124, and I'm going to quote from the translation by Sri Swami Sachidananda here just because I think it's very straightforward and it's very useful. Sutra 123 is Sarah one of Sara Paja's greatest hits. Ishvara Pranidhanadva. That's the only shortcut in the Yoga Sutra. Like you can achieve yoga if you just give it up and give it all to God. That's what that's what the verse means. Like surrender completely to the divine. Then he describes the divine. Ishvara is the supreme purusa, the spiritual energy, which is sometimes referred to as the internal energy of the divine. The prakriti is the external energy, the perceived. The purusa is the internal energy. Or the spiritual energy. Ishvara is the supreme purusa, unaffected by any afflictions, actions, fruits of actions, or by any inner impressions of desires. Klesha, karma, vipaka, ashia, unaffected by Kleshas, obstacles, unaffected by karma, beyond the cycle of cause and effect. Right. So there's this truth that the nature, like truth is constant change and everything is in constant cause and effect. And then yet there is this sense of supreme spiritual truth that transcends cause and effect. Next verse, 225. In Ishvara is the complete manifestation of the seed of omniscience. Sarvanyanbijam, that the root of knowledge is in is of the divine. And then one twenty-six. Unconditioned by time. Ishvara is the teacher of even the most ancient teachers. Unconditioned by time. So you could then say satya, the spiritual satya, is unconditioned by time, is the seed of all knowledge and true wisdom, because what has been true in this regard will always be true. This is something like isn't that like this Yoga Sutra. Touches on satya at this level. Because like, think about how like it was dr was like this was inscribed, I don't know, 2,500 years ago, it said. But like these are dimensions of the inner human mind that, you know, now people in the mindfulness movement are like expounding as if it's some new discovery. When like yogis and Buddhists have been doing this for thousands. I mean, it's said to be that the Vedic culture could be even 10,000. Or more years old. Right? The Yoga Sutra is just one text that transcribed one framing of this wisdom, but like it's just echoes of what was before, what was before, what was before, and what was before, what was and will always be, unconditioned by time. That the mind will have movement in the material realm. Chitta vritti. The nature of the material realm is constant movement. And then it's unaffected by klecha and karma, by obstacle or by cause and effect. So I'm having this conversation at the studio, and she's like, you know, the nature of the truth is that it's changed. And I said, I know. And that which is unchanged is what is truly is like another truth. And this is a yogi, like it is Amanda. and she looks at me, and I by the way, hope you're listening, Amanda. I just sent you the link to this podcast. I love you. and And we're like, and I was like, isn't that a fascinating paradox? Yeah. That like truth is change. It is the fundamental nature of the material realm. And the nature of the spiritual realm is that which is unchanged, unchangeable, and unchanging. How do we sit with that? Well, I my head exploded. Because it just did. It just like well, and I think it goes to what you were saying. Yoga is not a philosophy to be followed with blind faith. And I love that because I think sometimes and it's it is it is a little bypassy. It's a little you know, spiritual bypassy ⁓ where I'll go, well, it'll all just work out. I'll just release it and let it work out. You know, that hope I'll just let go and let God. Yeah. Yeah. But also like you have to let go and let God. You have to let And you can't let go and let But what it says here, he goes on, he goes, and it's so cool because he goes, in the beginning, it's true that confidence and trust are necessary. But as you continue to practice, every step will bring more and more hope, greater and greater confidence. If it if we are true yogis, just I love this, just for one day, we will be transformed and want more of it. It's contagious, just like any other habit. But first we must make some effort until we get the taste of the benefit. Certain like You know, certain candies might appear s a little strange and a child might say, No, no, no, I don't want it, but then the mother offers it. But if by chance the mother exerts some force to makes the child taste it, the child will want it more and more. And here's the here's the the the crux of it. When we get the taste of truth, of true philosophy, of groundedness, even if the whole world stands in our way, it will not keep us from our goal. It will not stop the manifestation of what it is that we are wanting meant to do. I just ⁓ and that's what it keeps coming back to. But I love the idea of if we just practice this like completely without any we were talking about yoga krama at the beginning of in the pre show, and it's similar to that. Breath movement, breath movement, nothing extra, nothing in between. If we were to focus on truth or on this philosophy with that kind of intention. We would want it over and over and over and over again, and nothing could stand in our way. But ⁓ how difficult to do that. So when we were talking about, we were talking about this idea of Vinyasakrama, and Krama ⁓ it means like ⁓ uninterrupted. And so it's a style of asana instruction in which like once you begin the sequence, you cue every single breath, every single movement is cued to a breath. And that does not stop until Shavasana. And there are it is really hard as a teacher. It requires so much discipline. it requires so much discipline to teach with that level of focus and specificity. That's what There's a master teacher and maybe future podcast guests. We'll see once we finally start getting podcast guests. But a a teacher named Yogeshwari. Who is in the Jiva Mukti lineage, if you ever, listeners, if you ever want to take a class with a living master, Yogeshwari is an OG Jiva Mukti yoga instructor. Her dharma is, I mean, her depth of study of Shastra is just like incredible. And when like sh when the Vinyatakrama starts, it does not stop. And every time I love it when she comes, she teaches for like a residence at at a studio here in New York City. And like I love it when I get to take her class because like in she teaches a really sophisticated and a very advanced asana practice. Now she'll say in the cues, she'll say, like, if this is as far as you go, stay here, breathe, keep going, do this. Like some right often. She'll offer. Or she just offers the full exp like again, ⁓ there's many lineages who would this is the best thing, this is the worst thing, different opinions. It's Just one way. It's not the only way or the only right way. It's one way. And she'll do it. And she just offers the deep, full expression. And she, and like, I always say, like, pretty much every class of hers I've taken, there's something I fall out of and I fall flat on my face. And it is so and somebody was like, You like that? And I was like, No, it's deeply humbling. It is such a beautiful reminder that, like, no matter how far I go, no matter how beautiful I think my asana is, I am humbled. By her class and humbled by that practice. So, like, there is a truth to that practice. Like, it is just stripped away of all of extra. And you like it's just a movement and a breath. And all breath and movement is linked, is yoked, is joined together. So, like, there's a truth to that. It's also a truth that like it doesn't matter if you fall. You fall back in. And and that, like, the sense that life is vinyasakrama. We we chop it up in weird ways, but the reality is you come into this world and you take a breath in. The last thing you do is you will take a breath out. Every single one of us. Like that is sat, right? That is sat. And now also this in this, you know, in many l in many lineages of belief, this is just a meat sack that I'm occupying for a temporary period of time. I just chose this human birth to like work out whatever karma I needed to work out. And I'm gonna keep we're down here in the karma school, in the karma factory, and then I'm gonna let it go. Like in a lot of Hindu and like Sanatan Dharma spiritual lineages. They don't even say use the term dying. They talk about leaving the body. And they talk about appearance more than they talk about like birth. Happy appearance day. So it's like, so while we're down here, there's this like material truth that we have to contend with, which is change. Like, you know, you don't have the same body that you did 10 years ago. What is it they say? Like every seven years, every cell in your body regenerates. Or like I was saying this to ⁓ a dear friend going through a very hard time, like. Talking about this idea of the of like how to touch into something that feels a little bigger and deeper when especially when you're going through a hard time. And I said, you know, like you remember when you were a child, like you have childhood memories, but you're not that child. Like your body has grown, you're in a very different container now. But you remember, and that was you. But was it you? But like you have a sense of it as you, but it wasn't like this form of you. Like I remember Seth at 10. But like Sat at 47 looks very different. I'm different. But I'm the same. But I'm different. And it's sort of like I was, I was 'cause I was I was giving him and was offering him ⁓ we were talking about neti neti. Not this, not that. And it's a and it's a meditation practice that again encourages us to really like sit in this paradox, like neti neti, not this, not that. One way to think of it you have a body. You're capable of observing your body and you can s notice the changes in your body. Again, like you're not the Sally that you were when you were 10 years old. Sarah Page, you're not the Sarah Sarah Page who was on the playground. Neither was this neither is this body Seth who was on the playground. Not the Seth I was when I was married 13 years ago, 14 years ago. And thank God, right? I mean, honestly. ⁓ From your lips to Glazius. literally. Okay. So neti neti. I am not this and I am not that. I am I have a body. There's a truth to the experience of my body, right? Like we talk about how the body and the breath is so grounding because it is like a deeply experienced, embodied truth, but it is not the truth. It is a truth, right? So like it's a truth of the material realm, but like you're observing it, so you're more than that. So neti neti, not this, not that. And you have thoughts, like or you have emotions, you have feelings, and your emotions are a physiological felt sensation in the body. So you have emotions, and if you watch and just observe your emotions long enough, they change. And then you're like observing the emotions. So now you're you're not the emotions because you can observe them. So nitti netti, like not this, not that. And you have thoughts. And you're the thinker of your thoughts. But then you get those thoughts that just like you have no idea where they came from, and you're observing it, and you're sort of like, wow, look at my mind go. Huh. Like when you cultivate a practice of mindful attention, you can apply that mindful attention to your own mind. This is where it gets real real. And it's often very uncomfortable because you have to sort of get honest about that some of the thoughts aren't unkind. Like we talked about earlier, right? Like that they're him sick. yourself to about others, right? How many thoughts of judgment do you have walking down the street? How many thoughts of judgment have I had since the beginning of this podcast? I mean, honestly. ⁓ How dare you? How dare you? I thought I th how very dare you, ma'am. ⁓ no, it's I was honest. ⁓ totally honest. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. But you know what, Thomas Thomas Jefferson has a quote, and it's similar to this, and I love this. It's in ⁓ Nishela Joy Debbie's book, ⁓ The Secret Power of Yoga. We are not afraid, we are not afraid to follow the truth wherever it may lead. And how many times have we talked on this podcast about fear being at the very base of everything? How afraid are we of the truth to face the truth? ⁓ I've often said, you know, I'm I'm never shied away from the fact my daughter has Down syndrome. And when she was starting kindergarten, she was going to be in an included form. And so we met the case manager, we met Parents' night and she said, you know, we're excited that we have a student who's gonna be coming in and she has special needs. And one of the parents raised his hand and he goes, What has she got? You know? And I said, Down syndrome. And because I firmly believed and I said to them, I said, please tell your children what it is, because it's the truth. When you don't tell the truth, it's scary. Then it it's like a monster in the closet. And it's not scary. It's an extra freaking chromosome. It's not a big deal. She's great and will be the best friend you'll ever have for the rest of your life. If you make it scary. ⁓ my God. Anyway, so to a fault. But come and anyway, that's hereditary. But so she So anyway, but I mean and I did. I said, please don't the name and so we used to do what was called ⁓ ⁓ sensitivity training. Every year we would meet with the kids and her class, the whole class, and have sort of a training around what is Down syndrome and blah blah blah. By the time they reached, I think it was like the fifth grade, we did it and finally they raised their hand and said, You know, we know it's the extra chromosome and we know it's they were like little mini geneticists. And I'm like, Okay, good so cute. Work here is done. But if we had not been honest with them about what it was, how it was, it would have been frightening. And they would have had questions. And then that whole All you gotta do is ask the question, follow the truth wherever it is, and it's probably not as scary as we think it is. Well, tell tell the truth and shame the devil. Uh-huh. That was for you, Sarah Page. Bless you. That was for you, baby. Bless your heart. Bless your heart. No, but it shows up in almost every single faith tradition, right? Tell the truth and shame the devil. Or as a beautiful quote from the Bible, the truth shall set you free. Well, and I love Because I did notice in two commentaries from Ruben Vasquez and from The Secret Power of Yoga by Nikola Joy Devi, they talked about truth and integrity. And it's kind of what you've both been saying. And Ruben Vasquez, in part of his commentaries, living with integrity is feeling, thinking, acting, and interacting with wisdom, honesty, and sincerity. And then ⁓ Nikhila Joy Devi says Satya is a profound virtue expoused in expoused in most major traditions as a dedication to the unspoken truth that's nestled in our hearts. Through Satya, we embrace the depth of it's good, right? Through Satya. It's so good. I'll start it from it. Satya is a profound vouch expoused. By most major traditions, as a dedication to the unspoken truth that nestles in our hearts. Through Satya, we embrace the depth of truth that words can only hope to convey. And I think that's probably part of the struggle. The heart rests within when in Salja. And I really thought, ⁓ I can feel that. Like when I really have stood in my truth and spoken up and been open. My heart does rest. Our words are so very powerful that we often do not realize the benefits or consequences they bestow on others or ourselves. Another great point of reference is from Swami Vivka Vivekananda. Yes. If in doubt whether to observe Ahimsa, non harming or satya truth. Always go with Ahimsa, which I think we kind of spoke to in the beginning. Yes, there's a way to be because I want to go back. Yeah, I was just so important. That's what I want to make sure we get back to there's a way to be honest, so you don't need to go into a white lie or anything. There is a way to be honest and not create harm. And real quick, one more ⁓ quote that was in the secret power of yoga by Maya Angelo. ⁓ you're getting it. Good for you. I love this. I learned that people will forget what you say. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. And I think about that all the time. I can't remember exactly what someone might have said. Well you Satya Tananda says something also. He says, ⁓ A vow of absolute honesty means we can no longer tell white lies either. If by being honest we will cause trouble, difficulty, or harm to anyone, then we should keep quiet. You know, and then there's the Sufi saying, right? ⁓ is it necess what is it? Is it ⁓ is it necessary? Is it kind? Is it ⁓ necessary? No, is it true? Is it kind necessary? Yeah. Is it necessary? Something about necessary, kind, or helpful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All those things. Well, can I we talked about that moment of people like I just have to speak by truth. Well, do you? No. Like really, like 'cause who is that for? Like if you know it to be true, it doesn't matter if you say it to anyone because you know it in your bones and it doesn't matter and like period, it doesn't matter. And if it's gonna be hurtful to someone Heart like now, then there's all right, like it is also I had this conversation with somebody, do I want to say this? Yeah, why not? who I'm dating and one of the things we said like that we wanted to agree on was that we'd rather I'd rather like we'd I'd rather talk about it than not talk about Right. I'd rather talk about it when there's something between us than not talk about it. And now there's like this is where like we're in the relativistic like dance of all of this. Because like his truth and experience is real and lived and his own. It is not necessarily mine. And We are gonna have different diverging experiences. Because there's another point of wisdom, one of my favorite verses, that teaches that the fundamental nature of all perception is subjective. Vastu Samya Chitta Beda Tayarvi Bhaktaha Pantaha 415. Each of us experiences the same object differently according to our experience, karma, projection, right? So this is like this, like that's like another way of framing this paradox. But the question then is, and the teaching, the verse says that when one is firmly established in truth, they like truth is what manifests. But I think of it a little bit differently. It's it's not like we don't create truth. That is beyond the realm of humans. It's sort of like how we don't like, like you can believe this through the lens of like the law of. Of like conservation of matter and energy. That like that, like we can't create matter or energy. We can only trans trans we can we can shift its form, but the fundamental like stuffness of it, we can't actually generate or destroy. And you would say that from a spiritual context, that like we don't make anything, we just shuffle it around. That that that creation is the realm of the divine. So again, you can take that through the spiritual or the material lens, physics or you know, spiritual practice, it's all the same. so then you start to get it like, well, what's true? So there's this like, like we talked about that, like there's the truth that everything changes and everything is in a constant state of change. And the truth that divine truth is unconditioned by obstacles, by karma, by cause-effect, place, time, circumstance. And that that is the seed, the exalted seed of knowledge beyond. The degradation of time. Well, and can I I pulled out the the yamas and the niyamas by Deborah Adele in looking at this? Because I feel like that's a book that I haven't looked at that book in a minute. Well, I had to give her But let me share like together to me, it just was so helpful. And so in her commentary on Satya, truth demands integrity to life and to our own self. That is more than not telling a simple lie, to be real rather than nice. Nice is an illusion, a cloak hiding lies. It is an imposed image of what one thinks they should be. It is packaging of the self in a presentable box imposed by an outer authority. Real comes from the center of our unique essence and speaks to the moment from the center. Real has a boldness to it, an essence. Real asks us to live from a place where there is nothing to defend and nothing to manage. It is a contact with the moment that is not superimposed or prepackaged. Real is something we might not always like in one another, but we come to know there will be no surprises. Real, though not always pleasant, is trustworthy. Living the life that cries to be lived from the depth of our being frees up a lot of energy and vitality. She goes on to say, I often hear people say, I just don't know what to do. I think more often now we do know what to do. The cost of our realness just seems too high at the time. Truth is a dance where the rules and certainties change with the circumstances. This fluidity is what makes truth so interesting. The compassion of nonviolence keeps truthfulness from being a personal weapon. It asks us to think twice before we walk around mowing people down with our truth and then wonder where did everybody go? To be a bold person of truth is to constantly look for what we are not seeing and to expose ourselves to different views. than the one we hold sacred. You know, everybody will say this says, I don't know, we've talked about this before. You know, ⁓ Sarah Page, you're so nice. I am not nice. I'm not. I'm kind. I'm authentic. And I worked really hard to be authentic. I have worked really hard. And and the reason I say that because it sounds I was raised in the deep south where You know what listen, I don't think it matters where you're raised, but as a a woman of a certain generation, we were raised, and this is my experience and this is my truth as it was, ⁓ to be a certain way. You know, and not to disrupt and all that. And that's where the bless your heart comes from, because what somebody might have wanted to say, which was, you know, that dress makes you look really awful. Go back and change it. They'll be like, Bless her heart, she tried so hard, or something like that. ⁓ I've worked very hard. I've I've really gotten rid of that. But there were a lot of times where my authenticity, quote unquote, authenticity came across as being harsh or strident or whatever, which was never my intention. So I have to look at that. And sometimes I still have to look at that. But I am kind and I but I am not nice. I really I have a knee-jerk reaction to that term. Yeah, nice feels like it's ⁓ performative. Kind feels like It's intentional, right? And compassionate. And I think, you know, we got as as we start to think about how we wrap this up, and to be clear, what we are describing is an immortal paradox. Like we are not here gonna there like if you thought you were gonna like get the answer at the end of this episode. Sorry about that. I gotta tell you, I could keep going and going and going and going. I mean, no, because like This is such an it is an immortal and immediate and eternal question of like how do we understand the truth? What does it mean to for something to be true? Because it is both true that everything changes and that all truth is relative and all experience and all our perception is relative, and that there is something, and this is a little bit of a leap of faith. And it right, like it requires some faith. But it also is faith that's informed by experience. That's what I you know, what I was talking about, embodied philosophy. Like, if you have ever had a moment where you truly felt of a a sense of the flow of of of the bigger spiritual universe. There is that sense where you're in both. That like I'm I'm in the flow of this change. I'm watching it, I'm watching it all unfold moment by moment. That the the vinyasa krama of every ksana, the smallest perceivable instance of time, is happening as exactly as it should in this beautiful dance. And that like you're over it, you're watching it or you're in it, but like you are in the river and on the shore. And that there is something that is like unconditioned by time, place, context, and bigger than yourself. You know, I I I had that feeling when I first stepped in the Ganga. Like it really is what it felt like to me. It was very deeply powerful that way. I felt this flow. It's a strong current. And it felt like I was touching something that was so much bigger. So we have no answers. Sorry about it. No, it's gonna be crying. It's gonna make me cry. Yeah. There's no answers. It's but the questions matter. And your experience, you listener, you Sarah Page, you Sally, me, Seth, like every single one of us is on like if you're listening to us, like you're on some kind of a journey in this dance. And I and I guess I would just say like there are moments when that feels terrifying. I love this quote of Pema Children. Fear is our natural reaction to moving closer to the truth. Because like the real truth means giving up a lot of s ⁓ you gotta you have to keep letting go of story and keep letting go of projection and keep letting go of certainty and like letting go and letting go. It's a deep, powerful release. Ishvara prani dhanadva. You have to like give it up and give it up and give it up. And as soon as you think you got it, it slips out of your hands. And every time you think you're gonna crack the code, you open a door and see the infinite hallway of doors in front of you. And ⁓ that can feel terrifying and it can feel exhilarating. ⁓ and often some of both, right? And there's some satya, like in that kernel of that space right between those two. It's very subtle. It's very hard in the material realm to cultivate it. But it's also like Such a beautiful part. And that and that again, like so that in the when we're firmly established in it, it's not like we're creating it, we're just calling it forth, like from the subtle into the gross, right? From the internal out to the external, just for a moment. And yogis, real yogis, like really have the power of a siddhi, of a superpower to ⁓ channel that. Like sometimes I I even say it's like it's sort of like om. Doesn't start or stop. You don't make the sound of ohm. You simply arrange yourself with the flow of breath, the complexity of like the folds in your in your larynx. Ohm was, is, and will always be. And so you just are a channel for it to manifest in a specific moment. But like it would be so arrogant to say that I make the sound of ohm. I generate or I create it. No. I'm a channel for it. Sometimes that's how I think about what we try to do here, like on a really good day. And that sounds a little, but like but it's an honest, but it's actually honest. Like I don't presume to know or have any answers. I don't presume that we have the right answer. I think we said that at the beginning. It's part of like our very intentional structure of this discourse and dialogue where like we're not telling you what we think the right answer is. And and we don't ever intend to do that. That would be so arrogant. I think we we've always said we're students and we're inviting you into our studentship. We've studied enough to have a decent sense of some questions to ask. And we're all out here in the world trying to figure out how to live it a little better every day, a little better every day, and how this wisdom informs the experience of living it in a way that likes we can maybe suffer a little less. Hi. ⁓ inquiry or teaching tip, who wants to go first? Me, I do. Sarah Pinch nominated Sally. ⁓ inquiry. Great. I'm gonna say consider the three following questions, and I did take them from the secret power of yoga as a practice to get to the truth within your very own heart. Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? And where and with whom do you sometimes say yes when your honest answer would be cute casual inquiry there? Great. Super good. Thank you, Sally. Sarah Page, some inquiry from you. Yep. And this is ⁓ you know, sort of the physician heal thyself. Where are you telling a white lie because you're afraid of what might happen? White lies are still lies. Where is it happening? And ⁓ we all do it. And what would happen if you didn't And what will happen? I mean, and it's and it's you know, i I got very interested in this idea of manifestation if we tell the you know the truth Nothing can stand in the way. So what is that lie blocking you from? I'm gonna sit with that one. Yeah, I'm gonna sit with that one. I would say for inquiry, ⁓ I don't know I've been this kick of matrix references lately. This is so weird. But it's a little bit like how Morphe says to Neo when he's like in the training ground and he says, do you think that's aerial breathing? And then they like go continue. So it's like, do you think that's aerial breathing? Like, what is the nature of the experience you're having right now? Really? Like, really? What of that is the story you're telling yourself about it? And what if it is the direct experience? And and just for yourself, start to try to pull those apart a little bit. It's not about right or wrong. We all tell ourselves stories. And the stories, and I'm a storyteller, the stories are how we categorize and confirm meaning. And we have to do that to live out here in the crazy world. Practice is to see the difference. Right? Sat asat. Like this is the glass of water. It is not the only thing that will qu for now and forever quench my thirst. But I I'm thirsty. So like or this like or that you have a story about the glass and like you go off on a like like just what is this what is what's actually happening and what is the story that you're telling yourself of it? Sat asat. And just stay in that like real curiosity. What's what's the actual direct experience versus my story of the direct experience or what I project onto it? We could go down a whole realm about how this teaching mana shows up in Buddhist lineages ⁓ in the belief or the practices of Shunyata and of ⁓ emptiness and interdependence. Same very similar paradox there. But for another day. Right now, Sally, what's a teaching tip for this week? So I'm gonna say soften. I love it came up a few times with both of you about I think what I'm loving most. most about this study is I'm not asking being asked to memorize and regurgitate. I'm asked I'm being asked to take it on, test it out. So I would soften in the physical practice, maybe soften the joints, ⁓ soften as access to getting to the truth and and check your thoughts. Are you are they kind? Are they necessary? Are they outdated? If you say yes, carry on. And if you say no, be honest and Practice Satya. Gorgeous. Sarah Page? I liked is it true or is it an opinion? ⁓ so when you're teaching, is it your opinion that something is happening or is it the truth that that is happening? And learning to understand the difference between the two is another thing I'm gonna be chewing on, is you know, because opinion is ego. So and truth is not. So Truth is concrete, opinion is is abstract and it's ego. So are you telling yourself the truth of a situation during your teaching? Because you know we don't stop the snow globe in the head just keeps, you know, being shook and shook and shook and shook. So totally. You know, so are you I think about that one when I see it, when I give it when I see people not doing what I when I see these people. When I see a room and it's like not they're not doing what I s what I what I think I said. Yeah. Yeah. And then you have this moment of like, they're not listening to me. And then that's true. Or is that your opinion? Am I not, or did I not give a an effective cue? Well, yeah. And so it's but it's also is it true that they're not listening to you, or is it your opinion, quote unquote, opinion or ego? And so it kind of ⁓ no, that's always ego. Hell yeah. But I'm just saying, you know, just get real clear around it without and I say this at the end of every single thing that I say that sounds dictatorial. It with love, with grace, yes, with compassion. You're not a bad person, I'm not a bad person, we're not. There's none of that. You want to be a good teacher and there's nothing wrong with that. And that's growth. It's growth. I'm gonna say, ⁓ we talked about at the beginning a little bit, ⁓ but I'm gonna say like I think ⁓ you can touch into a lot of powerful satya in the practice of vinyasakrama. So krama is ⁓ without interruption. And the practice of teaching vinyasakrama ⁓ in many, many, many lineages of of sort of vinyasa based, flow-based style of practice, like is that every single movement is cued with breath, and that that begins when the sequence begins and does not end until shavasana. So that's literally like inhale ortvastasana. Extended mountain, exhale, utanasana, forward fold. Inhale, ardha utanasana, halfway lift, exhale, low plank chattaranga at ndasana. Inhale, upward facing dog, erdva mukashvanasana, exhale, back adho mukashvanasana. Inhale, exhale one. You seriously, you cue every single breath. And you know, like it's that specific. And it requires you. I did it actually. Last week. Sometimes I just challenge myself to do that because it's just like no BS, no extra dharma. As much as I love talking about the Dharma, ⁓ just like nothing extra. You just have to like strip it away and strip it away and strip it away. And all you've got time for is a breath, maybe a physical cue, a point to point cue, right? Press your big toe ball mound into the mat. Exhale, pull the navel in and up. Inhale, press your knuckles down, lengthen through the whole spine. Exhale, pull in again, lengthen up, lift your heels, no breath, look forward, step or jump to the front. Now inhale, lengthen back to the halfway lift, exhale, fold down. Inhale, rise up. Like you you just there's nowhere to go. There's nowhere to hide. And it's just the thing. And for those of you who teach Baptiste power yoga, you can teach Journey into Power in that style. And people will tell you it's one of the best classes they've ever taken. It will you will rock somebody. It works. same for spiritual warrior in the Jivamukti Yoga lineage. Like these like the sequences are really well constructed. You don't have to mess with it, just deliver it as it is. And like the practice of the Vinyasakrama touches into something again that is like you could say. And it's grounded in truth. At least truth of the material realm. And then maybe there's the bigger truth too. You'll who knows? Who knows what'll happen. Okay, what has to happen though is we're gonna zip this up. Land it land the plane. I'm gonna land the plane. If you have received any benefit from hearing the sound of our words, first of all, we are so grateful for your time and for the precious gift of your attention. And we would be so dearly grateful for a review, for a comment, for a recommendation. Please like, subscribe on the platform of your choice. Please consider sharing this content with someone who might find it valuable, useful, or be a balm to their spirit, heart, mind, ⁓ or who just needs something that's not murder news podcasts. ⁓ in the feed that is not I'm not that is a little dig on you. Sorry. I love a murder podcast. I can't tell. I can't lie. I think it's Tomastic. I'm I'm giving you feedback in service of your greatness. So ⁓ so we hope, we dearly hope this has been ⁓ some sattva, some a little bit, maybe just a touch. and with that, we will say thank you, thank you, Sarah Page. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you so much. What is true is that I love you both dearly. So true. That is a truth that has only deepened. We are lucky one. Every time. Every day. ⁓ and we l and we're so grateful for every single one of you for tonight, for today, for this morning, whenever you hear it. Thank you for taking some time and listening to us on the sutra squad, and we'll be back with you very soon. Bye bye.