Latest / SPLITUP / Divorce In A Day - Talking with Kate Simonds to explain her “Divorce In A Day” mediation service .

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Divorce In A Day - Talking with Kate Simonds to explain her “Divorce In A Day” mediation service . · SPLITUP

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not legal or psychological advice.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Listening does not create a professional relationship with Split Up or any guests.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Lonnie and Robert are only licensed in the state of Arizona.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: For legal or mental health concerns, please consult a licensed professional in your state.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: Guest identities may be changed for privacy.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, welcome to Split Up.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Lonnie Sheldon, the founder of Split Up, and today we have Kate Simmons.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Kate.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Good morning.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Kate is an Arizona family law attorney who helps people navigate divorce without turning every disagreement into a courtroom battle, which is so needed.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: She has handled hundreds of contested trials, including but not limited to high-asset divorces, paternity, child support, grandparents' rights, and everything in between.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: But today we're focusing on her divorce in a day mediation service.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I'm really excited about.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, what it involves and who it's for and whether splitting up can be less stressful and more straightforward is really what we're kind of going to go over today.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um a little background, just before becoming an attorney, uh Kate spent more than a decade as a competitive dressage writer, which I had to look up just so that you know, um, and instructor.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So Kate, did you go to like law school after that?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I did.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have a college degree in equine science, and I went to law school after that.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So then she also enjoys biking, scuba diving, and training her German Shepherd, Betty.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I also have a German Shepherd.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: And Betty is nine now, so she's doing less training and more laying around, but she has got the good life.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, my my German Shepherd, same.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, although I think she's I think she's seven.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: She's seven, she was a rescue.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was um, I guess it was like a uh people who were dealing drugs, but also then bred shepherds for um for some money for their drugs.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um, hey, at least they weren't stealing.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, they were uh they they we got the dog, so I was excited about that.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I I want to talk to you about this divorce in a day because everyone wants to be like no people typically don't want to drag it out.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna say everyone, because there are people who do like to fight, and that's just what they like to do.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Those are probably not the people who come to you, but the the majority of the people I think don't want to fight, and they really kind of want to get over it and just have it done.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um I have a lot of questions for you, like a thousand probably, but um, let's just kind of go through some just so that I can understand it, and then maybe our audience can also understand it.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um so divorce in a day is a big promise.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to just are are the people leaving single or are they leaving with a signed agreement?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: What does leaving look like?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like walk us through that what happens.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: We have an intake process that can be very, very short.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: We frequently have cases that are all the way completed in one week or two weeks.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So the intake process is very regimented, very easy for people, and we set a one-day mediation session in office, or people can appear virtually.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we've had a lot of virtual success.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you're living in another state, we've had some where people, because of safety concerns or otherwise, don't really want to be even in the same building.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: We can accommodate that.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: But here's what you get at the end of the one-day mediation.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: All of the paperwork is signed.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: We use the summary consent process.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: In Maricopa County and Arizona, they have a somewhat new pack of paperwork that allows people to provide all of the dissolution documents at one time, and that starts a 60-day waiting period, which we'll talk about.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so at the end of the mediation day, all of it is signed.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not technically single, but we have a binding contract, we have binding documents, no one can change their mind the next day, and you sign an additional contract that says you understand that.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so all your paperwork is finished.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one thing that sets us apart from some other mediation firms that get the agreements, maybe sign some things, and then start drafting.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: All of the drafting is done before anyone sets foot in the office, and then we edit on the date, and it's all signed the same day, and we still have a 100% success rate for that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we have not had two people in the office and and the result being uh a failure or someone doesn't sign.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's that's shocking to me.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you why do you think that is?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I'm this is just this is not the the this is typically not the fun people that you're dealing with.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you how do you think like, and I don't want to give away any trade secrets, obviously, but why do you think, besides just your smiling face, um, that this can get done like that without failures?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want to put that out there, without full agreements in a day.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, full agreements and full, you know, agreements with consideration.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's no rushing, there's no pressure.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um the trade secret, one part of our program, which I think stands apart, is we have two attorney mediators.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: So um my law partner and husband, Chris, works with one spouse throughout the day in one area of our building, and I work with the other spouse.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's a huge time saver.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you you know the mediation process, you're a great mediator, your spouse is a great mediator.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but one person and two people who are unrepresented, there are no other lawyers, having those two attorneys that and we now have a pretty set regimen about the order in which we go, the you know, the method in which we talk through all of the issues, which we're aware of ahead.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: We've prepped the case, everything is drafted.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so having those two attorneys saves so much time that everybody has enough time to talk through what needs to be talked through.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, that 100% success rate, I'm clinging on to it.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it and really, there's been no risk.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: We people at the end of the day of their divorced in a day, frequently, I'll say more than half the time, they'll say this is way easier than I imagined it would be.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's such a great idea that you have two people.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I say that because as a previous mediator, and honestly, I'm not a mediator anymore.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really like it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm an advocate.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I don't have the patience that I think people need to be mediators.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I just I think it's a gift.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: I do, I think it's a gift, and I don't think that that's one of my gifts because I want to smack people around.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so I won't be helping.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think having the two mediators is so important because otherwise you leave the person for you know an hour.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and in that time, they're just thinking, why are they spending so much time with them?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they doing this?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Why are they doing that?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you and Chris come up with a like a plan like which you think a fair and equitable division is ahead of time and you kind of aim towards that?
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that's an that's one of the keys.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're exactly right about mediation and people just sitting and waiting.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And so when one of us runs into an issue and someone needs more time on one thing, the other person is looking at the banking statements, finishing the balance sheet, making sure uh a whole other topic is being addressed.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so the time efficiency.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: But absolutely, that's part of the value.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's what people are paying for.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've been a divorce lawyer more than 15 years, and I I like to tell people usually the two lawyers on a case, even if it's going to trial, they'll have a pretty good idea of here's what the court probably will do.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we can always be surprised.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's one of the negatives about going to court, is it can be unpredictable.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: So absolutely, and that's a good part of it, is I can say, let me tell you what I would say if you were my client.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Here's a really good idea, here's a way to deal with this, and we do direct.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's somewhat self-directed because part of the program is you're better off, especially with a parenting plan, you're better off coming up with your own agreement and working from those orders.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: But when people are stuck or when they disagree, if I know, you know, here's a really great option, let's consider it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: More times than not, they'll say, Wow, I never thought of that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's part of the value.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, that's a huge part of the value.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think with your experience and um, I mean, not just your experience as a lawyer, but now this experience as doing these mediations, you guys get to be so creative, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's things that judges can't do, and judges often don't know the most important thing to a person, and I'm sure you guys figure that out pretty quick.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm also gonna say it, sometimes lawyers screw it up.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like sometimes, you know, like I want to protect somebody's right.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an advocate, I'm advocating for a person, and I want them to understand their rights, and I don't want them to wake up with buyer's remorse.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to, and sometimes that's not necessarily in their best interest of settling as a lawyer, and it's not because I'm trying to increase fees, it's because I just want to make sure they're very, very, very aware of their rights, and so that in and of itself, I think is adversarial to some extent.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: You just, you know, you someone might say, No, I'm good with every other week.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And all right, but you have the right to have 50-50 and just know this is gonna affect your child, you know, like I really go into the child support aspect and all of that, and and you find out what's important to the people together, I think.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's probably works, right?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and one of my uh routines that I make sure to do, we have an intro.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: How are you feeling today?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes people come in and they have 45 minutes of things they have to get off their chest.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here for that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's important to us.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm but that will probably help me later in the day.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and when appropriate, I will usually say, we're gonna talk about all of the details of your orders, but why don't you tell me your top three goals and list them in order of importance?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm there, you know, we're at a table and I write them down, and maybe we have to go back to that or not, but that will set the stage if I know, and sometimes I'm surprised because I know a lot about the case before.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: We have, you know, all our little sheets that people do and they do a good job.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: And Chris and our paralegal Barbara handle all of that ahead.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I'm surprised, and that is helpful.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I know this is your top priority, and then after the first chunk of time, we we first sign all of the intro, all the summary, the joint petition response.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: We do all the easy stuff, we talk about the parent information program, and I say, okay, I'm going to confer with Chris, and then we will share kind of maybe some hot topics.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Here's where we have to go, here's what's really important, and I will tell the other person I'm going to tell, you know, my spouse, I'm going to tell Chris about this.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then Chris and I can stay on the same page throughout the day.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: There are no surprises.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: We we have it down to a pretty um uh predictable routine at this point.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: We run them all the same and and it's working.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: We've we've got it down.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean I love this.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So do you give them do you give them a list of things to bring to the mediation?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you what does that look like?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are they supposed to bring all their, I don't know, like bank documents?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: What do they bring?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Before we start, right at intake, they know we're going to operate on a group email.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: So nobody feels like someone's talking to Simmons Law Group before they arrive.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes there's a sensitive topic and we'll offer, okay, you can have a 10-minute call.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to do the same with the other person, but we keep it very transparent before the day.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so everybody can see.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, as you know, uh, one person handles all the finances, they're going to be in charge of the inventory form.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is shared with the other person.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just a list of what do you have and where do you think it's going?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the other person is free to do their own, or one is fine.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Then they will add to the group email if there's usually spousal maintenance or child support.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: What do I get for spousal maintenance?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And we'll share the calculator.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Chris will talk through some of these issues with them before.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: And one thing that's important that helps that that we do sometimes is say, bring your laptop to one or both and bring all your passwords.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we can just look in real time what's in that savings account, what do we have, what's the number on this IRA?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then sometimes I can tell my person or Chris can tell the other spouse, Kate or I saw this account with our own eyes.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's got$552 in it.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we'll put in the balance sheet.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: So they have to be somewhat prepared.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: It depends on the case.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the inventory form and the wonders of online banking have gotten us through.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then we have a little special, um, some special instructions about pensions and 401k accounts.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I I guess and does this deal with do people go come to you that have like high asset stuff and they just agree?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, like that to me is an attorney that makes me a little bit nervous, but actually, I mean, beautiful because you're sitting there with the the computer and you open it up and you get to see the stuff.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, it's pretty hard to hide stuff, I think, or at least more difficult to hide stuff if you've got them with their computers and their passwords.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we've this program, the beauty is it works for people with almost nothing.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: So financially, this program is perfect for parties that need an awesome parenting plan.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they don't have a lot of money, or you know, the divorce that comes in.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: They have a lot of debt and they have not a lot of money.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: What a nightmare to pay two lawyers to go through the process.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, come in, get the right orders.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: You have minor children, maybe of real estate, so you should have a lawyer helping you.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is the perfect program for that family.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: This is also the perfect program.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: We've done a$15 million estate, we've done a$20 million state, they've owned a business, they've done, had all of these things.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: We had one where parties said we want to have our uh financial, um, the plan administrator of our all of our high asset accounts ready on the data mediation.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're on the telephone and we work with them.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it absolutely is available for anybody.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And once in a while ahead of time, maybe we'll have um a home appraised.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: We just arrange that for them, very simple.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if they can agree on a value of a business, we could do that ahead.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we haven't had that issue.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked through, and usually, you know, we've always had an agreement, but we'll find that out before we set the mediation date.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, about I think it's about 20%.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: It might be more now.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I know that was back in the day when I was looking at more statistics, are very high conflict people.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is this do you get a lot of high conflict people coming through?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: If we just take that term on its face potentially, and the the the the term we're looking for is cooperative.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So high conflict is okay, but uncooperative or manipulative or malicious, probably not.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's regularly, I'll have consults that come in that want to hire me for a regular case and they say, I want to do divorce in a day.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll say, Yep, great program.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'll explain it to them and I'll say, but based on what you told me about your spouse today, you probably won't qualify for the program because they're not going to be on board with all these things.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean that that person doesn't want a divorce.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: But we don't want, you know, we don't want that first failure.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: We're pretty careful and we've been lucky with, you know, the the wonderful uh families that have been willing to place their trust in us to go through the process.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't had anybody come in and try to turn it upside down, you know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the ones who are like, she must sign this or I'm out of here.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Hasn't happened yet, and we're we're somewhat careful.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: So high high conflict is okay.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we say here's the R Family Wizard, we talk through all those things.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of high conflict uh is the question, right?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so one of the things in in in listening to you talk about that, I I was thinking about the domestic violence stuff, and I actually think this is such a and I I I'm kind of going back and forth in my head ping-ponging this with domestic violence, but gosh, you know, if you can get the domestic violence stuff done quickly, uh I mean, how and and safely, and with these safeguards that I'm sure you have from your experience as a lawyer and as a mediator in place.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, this just seems like a really great idea for people in domestic violence situations.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Am I am I off?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you hate the domestic violence?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you hate them, but do you are those more difficult or what do you think?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: You're not off.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a hot topic in mediation.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people like to say, well, if there's domestic violence, you can't do mediation, or I guess if there's domestic violence, you should.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Cases with domestic violence probably get worse orders if you're in court, right?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: The courts don't have enough time.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: We have these new laws which are putting more stress on the amount of time and attention that's going to be needed.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: The judges have to make a ton of findings.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we have logistically several things in place.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: We've had cases that have gone through divorce in a day where domestic violence has been present.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: We've had success.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: We have we're careful with arranging arrivals.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: We do have uh an entrance in the front and the back of our building.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a two-story building.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: We can schedule people what time are you going to arrive?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: We can walk them in.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: We certainly have a procedure for exiting.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: But you are kept 100% separate from the other person during the day, domestic violence or not.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: That I think is one of the top selling points.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Top selling point is price.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: Second top selling point of the program is you will have no contact with your spouse during the day of mediation.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel very strongly that's the best way to do mediation.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so because I'm with one spouse and Chris is with the other, we get a very good read on if there's potentially duress or coercion or how they're feeling, or all of these things.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the presence of domestic violence thus far in this program that we've been running more than five years has not been a barrier to a successful completion and good orders, parenting time and otherwise.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's I I I think the orders are what makes it so great if you've got some domestic violence victims, because they really get to set their boundaries and you get to help them with your experience set boundaries, um, which are are so important.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think victims of domestic.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Violence don't necessarily know what they don't know, especially about boundaries.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so your expertise coming in there, and not just fighting and asking the judge for something, but literally laying it out the exact plan that you want, I think is that's why I'm thinking this is so much better.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: I uh absolutely agree.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we have not faced an issue yet that has uh, you know, has shown me that this would not be an appropriate process for anybody.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm looking at your fee.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's let's back up real quick.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's this in Arizona we have a 60-day waiting period.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so what happens, so they come in, let's say they come in on um September 1st and they have a full agreement on September 1st.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they have to wait the 60 days.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like who has the papers?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Do you file the papers?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you file the papers immediately, then wait the 60 days?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Do you file the papers?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I guess that's the question.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you the one filing all the documents?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, do you just tell them, hey, you gotta wait, you know, 60 days, or what does that look like?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say the mediation happens September 1, and we have everything signed, notarized, completed in the summary consent packet.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Our office holds the paperwork within the next one or two days, it's delivered to the court.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Summary consent process delivered to the court.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: The court then files, and then their commissioner process holds the documents for 60 days, and we send the envelopes, we send the whole thing, sign, seal, delivered, and then the parties receive, so it'll be about mid-November, receives their final orders in the mail, we email them.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: In the meantime, we're helping with do we have a quadro to start?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Did you do your parent information program and all of those things?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of your mediation day here, you get a checklist.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: You get about a three-page letter that says, here's how you sign up for ECR.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: So you can follow the docket.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: You can always download these documents in the future.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Here's how you complete your name change if you want.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: We give you a one-page name change order, which is very convenient.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the instructions for that.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_02: You probably should now have a new estate plan, all kinds of things.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: We give them a wonderful little packet on the way out.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then, of course, as always, email or call with any questions.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so I I mean it's just so great.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: So then um hopefully you haven't had this happen yet.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: But have you had a commissioner sit on it at all for too long?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then did you have to call up and follow up?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: We've had it now, it's been years, but when they switched this over to commissioners doing it, we got a few rejections for things that were foolish, like, oh, there's no child support worksheet.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then you just email it back and say, yes, there was a child support worksheet, and they say, okay, and we kind of handle those things in office.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um now almost all the divisions are signing those within two weeks, and then maybe there's a straggler, and usually from us an email will will get it signed.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: But we haven't really had issues with the the 60 day um and getting that paperwork signed, and um it really can't be any faster or easier for people the way that we have it set up.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you do follow up though.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you fought if if if you have do you send yourself a copy?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you know it's happened?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, we send an envelope and we when parties sign up for divorce in a day, they're hiring our office as a neutral.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we do a neutral representation agreement, and we send the court a self-addressed envelope with the parties, and they always mail us a copy too.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll keep doing it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so now this at this time, and this is what is it, September 10th, 2026.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, your fee is$5,000.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: So how is that paid?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that paid per couple?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that just however, do sometimes they just say, all right, we're gonna take out a credit card and we're gonna put this$5,000 on this one credit card?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Is that kind of what that what does that look like?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: The fee is$5,000 all in, flat fee.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: I do not predict we're going to be moving that fee.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: It it's served us.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's been the fee since day one, more than five years ago.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: And it includes your filing fees, delivery, everything.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: There are no hidden costs, and it is for the entire case.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's for the couple, not per person.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And parties can tell us we want to split it, or we just send a link if you want to put it on a credit card.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Very simple.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: We have a cash discount because we pay the credit card fees, small cash discount.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to pay cash, it's$4,700 and no additional fees to Simmons Law Group.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it includes you two lawyers working on your case throughout, paralegal and the full-day mediation.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: We also do a kind of junior program, which is a doc prep for$3,500 flat.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's if people insist, we promise we know what we want.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want a mediation date.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: We want to see our paperwork and then negotiate a few details, and then we just want to sign.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: We don't want to come in and we do those once in a while.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: But$5,000 all in, not gonna change.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really fair, really fair price.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, very fair price.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's uh it's it's doable for the people that just have such a difficult time.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, split up is less expensive, but we don't give them your expertise.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, that's two attorneys for a day.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I I need a war story to some extent.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um what is the longest you have ever got?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's what time do they get there, Mike?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's the longest that they've ever stayed?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then do you feed them lunch in there while you're in there?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, before um before the day when we set it, parties get a confirmation letter which has all kinds of great information, like how to arrive, do the staggered entrance, etc.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: We say, please, please bring snacks, bring food if you like.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of manage the lunch situation as we go.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: At least 80% of parties are done in a half day.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's wow.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I would say average time for the the mediation session is um four and a half, five hours.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: And although more time is is welcomed, but that's because of the preparation.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's because we start looking at the paperwork right away, and it's usually I'm we're happy to be here all day.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: You paid for the day and we'll we'll go through everything.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: But people are like, I'm here to sign.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, let's get through this and let's get this handled.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, so I know that you said that you have a person and then Chris has a person.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you guys switch back and forth, or do you stay with your person and Chris stays with their person?
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then do you you gather information and then do you go meet, or do you take a computer and you guys are communicating by email, or what does that look like?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how do you know that Chris's person is agreeing?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: We stay with the same person.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Every once in a while, I'll usually I'll go chat with, you know, the other side if there's um sometimes just to kind of work through a tough issue or hear it, or sometimes somebody wants to talk to the other person, or they've been talking to Chris and they want to check in with him, fine.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I stay with one, Chris stays with one, and then they stay in their rooms and Chris and I confer separately.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And now that we just kind of have the rhythm down, I can hear if he's coming downstairs or goes in the kitchen and and we confer then privately without the parties hearing what we're talking about and um and keep it going that way.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you know, it makes sense with two lawyers that it would be a half day.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for something that might take 10 hours in a mediation with one mediator walking back and forth, um, and not just walking back and forth, but you know, having to leave and give the person time to think about it, you kind of can help them think about it, you kind of guide their thought process.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very interesting.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, I I I love the idea, but you have you had one go like 10 hours?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Just one.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Just one.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's you know, it's because of emotion, it's not because the issue is complicated.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was because every once in a while someone is just has that really tough time when it's time to sign.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: But one in five years, and so we put in the letter, you know, if you go over the full day, there you could set another day or there's an extra fee.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, that you know, went out the window that day.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're not charging them for a couple extra hours.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: So we had one that you know went later into the evening, and that's fine.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, and it really is just because it's an emotional, it's one of the worst things you'll go through.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're both willing to save the money, time, stress, don't go to court and do it this way.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: You can come and have all of your emotions right here contained.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: And if we need a little extra time, no problem by us.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I, you know, judges just don't have time for that, right?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Judges don't have time for emotions, judges don't have time to hear your story, and judges don't have time to spend a significant time listening to your story, and then, you know, we're given such short times in litigating that, you know, you get three hours, say, and you've got to less than 90 minutes, like 75 minutes for each side to put their whole life out there, and you've got to be focused and it's got to be quick, and then you have no idea what's gonna come of it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: You've got no idea what the parenting plan's gonna look like.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You've just you're sort of you're you're just such at the mercy of the court who just in in my opinion has changed dramatically in the last say 15 years that it's um I think maybe the training's not as um amazing as it was back in the day.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so there's there's just I've been seeing a lot of weird orders.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I see them from every state.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I follow a lot of people, uh a lot of attorneys at different in different states also.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not, you know, just Arizona.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's national.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's just kind of this national issue where there's just not enough time to take care of all these family law matters.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now let me ask you this.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do do you take care of people who are not necessarily married but are splitting?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like so if you just do just custody and just parenting time and child support and and taking the time to create just a beautiful parenting plan.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: This program would be ideal and work just the same for paternity or establishment of paternity case, and absolutely that's available.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, because I I do think that that's it that might just be so much easier than having to go to court and do this the paternity establishment.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there are so many people in the family courts that weren't ever married, so I just want to make sure that you don't differentiate.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can help, you can help everybody.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, that would be um really uh uh a benefit to them, and we do have if when those come through, there's a little discount on the price as well, because there's um no asset or debt division, and so um yeah, they're perfect for it as well.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: So and just from my opinion, as an attorney and as somebody who just really likes helping people at less cost, when you create a parenting plan with an experienced attorney, the chances of coming back every month or two to fight, to change, to, you know, modify something a little bit here and there.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I mean, I I know there's statistics that say if you mediate, you're less likely to go back to trial.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have them in front of me, but I know that they they are out there.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I just I just want the people listening, listen, you don't have to be married to use this service, um, or have you don't have to have been married.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, do you ever do modifications too?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then like a would you do like a Rule 69 agreement?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: We have, and we have uh we really charge people like a reduced hourly to do that.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: So because our office is a neutral, they both have to come back and say, okay, we want to make a little change to child support or we have a little parenting plan change.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Chris handles those and we charge, I mean, he'll do it for less than like$200 an hour to say, great, we'll draft the STIP for you and submit those.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you're absolutely right.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: If it mediation of any kind, if parties start their orders, if your original orders are agreed upon, you are very unlikely to just file a modification and go into court because you already know the value.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and it all the fear is gone.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: People come in with a lot of fear and very nervous when they arrive and they leave feeling empowered.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, we are going to have these agreements, we chose them, and so modifications here post-judgment are very easy to do.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: We're happy to do that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um like I said, and I love that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of getting like a 90-minute trial, you actually get people, one who are gonna listen, two who can be creative, um, and three who can kind of get this process done quicker.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, even look at the, you know, look at a parenting plan that was maybe done, you know, there's some really I've seen some very bad parenting plans out there.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people online actually that sell the service of creating parenting plans, and um, it's a little scary.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've seen some decent ones, but I've seen some very bad ones where they they they think that they want something that they just shouldn't have done.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I I again I just love this idea for that too.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is just the the coming in as a neutral and and handling both people at the same time is what I love.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's just you don't have the person sitting there for an hour and negotiating back and forth with their attorney, which again is it that's the normal way that's done.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying that's a terrible thing to do, but I do love this setup that you've got.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, so do you have you had anyone, and and maybe you just haven't had this because your intake's so good, um, that when one person controls the money and the other person really doesn't know much about it, I mean, if are they just learning it for the first time in your office, or is that something like you said, you know, we're emailing everybody and this is what's gonna happen?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I know that there's people out there who just have never handled it, you know, they took care of the kids, there was money in the account, they used a credit card, it was paid.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was just what they did.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had any issues where maybe somebody wasn't completely honest about the the money and and the other person's like, yeah, yeah, they are, and then you just kind of resolve it there.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's very common that that's how families run.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we run into that a lot.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And one of two things will happen.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we deal with it before we set the mediation date as much as we can to make sure that people qualify.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: And if you pay and do the intake and we find out shortly thereafter you don't qualify, we just give you a full refund and decline.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's happened maybe one or two times that something kind of unusual has come up.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: So usually we will suggest and we'll tell both of them this other person needs a summary overview of all of the assets before we go any further.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it could be completely innocent.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: One party just handles the money and that's all there is to it.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're not hiding money, they're just the only ones over the years, you know, who have handled all the brokerage.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes, usually, it's at one place.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's at Charles Schwab or it's at Fidelity or it's the 401k plus, just show them the summary, send it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, maybe they have a spreadsheet or maybe they have things.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Can we cure this right up front?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Usually, yes.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: If there is, you've had the consult, I've had the consult a hundred times.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so clueless, I don't know at all what we have, and the other person is really hiding things, they just don't qualify.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: We would, we would not take that case for a divorce in a day because of exactly, I would be too nervous.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, I don't want after discovered assets out there.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: I want to make sure that all every one of the decrees that we put out there from this program are gonna stick, are gonna be good.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if any, I mean, nobody's tried to reopen, nobody's tried to withdraw.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would not want that out there.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we're pretty careful about that situation that you mentioned, which is not common, the common situation of ignorance, easy to fix.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you you do keep talking about your intake process.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't want you to have to give us all, again, all your all your trade secrets, but how long does that last?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like how long does that intake take?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's really there's one important document that we spend a lot of time producing that's a fillable form that sets the stage.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: And if both parties say, yep, this is this is what we have, this is it, and then we part of the intake is we have a lot of fillable items about parenting plan options, thoughts, opinions, and we draw from that, here's about where we're going.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then we say, okay, looks like we have everything, let's set your date.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you ask, how long does that take?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: We can do it very fast.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: We've had parties sign up and been done that weekend.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: We'll set you this Saturday if you really are ready to go.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's incredible.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we get them good to get them while they're ready and they're not scared and backing down too.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I not that good to get them, that doesn't seem right, but but but it's good to get be able to get people in quickly because when they're finally brave enough to maybe go and do something that they were really scared about, it's great that they don't have to wait very long.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's good because even if they think afterwards, oh, you know, we really did that quickly, if I know they're gonna get the same orders after a year and a half fighting in court, then it is a benefit.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: Then it is a good thing that they got in and in and signed and got it done.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm looking at the math and the child support and maybe the spousal maintenance, and that they'd have to each pay$20,000 to$50,000 for a lawyer to go to trial or more on these issues, then it is good.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: Hurry up and sign it because that's what you're gonna get.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's uh it's so great.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: And again, the going to trial is such a crapshoot um that you just you just don't know.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: So after having done hundreds of trials um and then these mediations, what do you think that the biggest fights are about or the sticking points?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Usually parenting time is gonna be the top.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Before Arizona got our spousal maintenance guidelines, for sure spousal maintenance, because it was so unpredictable.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: So spousal support or alimony, uh, now that we have a calculator, is so much easier to deal with in a mediation setting.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it's no longer, I'll just take the risk because who knows what a judge will give you.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you're in trial, the biggest fights usually parenting time, I think.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's usually because the other party doesn't have a realistic or resolution oriented lawyer, in my opinion.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: The trials that I have set now, the trials I've done in the last year, are because opposing counsel is not settlement focused.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's always a good answer.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: There's always a good answer for these cases.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe they have a very difficult client that they just can't control.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because I do see that quite a bit where somebody wants what they want, even if it's not doable.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's sometimes why people bring their cases to Steve, um, because they want the judge, the judgy voice to be said, you know, to really get on someone and tell them like you're not getting this.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: I have an unpopular opinion, and I have a different opinion about that type of lawyering, which I know happens, and colleagues of mine will probably disagree with me.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't think that family lawyers should allow that.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I really don't.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: I will never go into a courtroom with someone and just say, well, I couldn't control or I couldn't help them see why this isn't a good idea.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it happens all the time.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: I litigate against, you know, these types of attorneys, but I feel strongly that that you have to tell your client from day one and you have to continue to give them good advice.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think you said it earlier, and this is what I do.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I prep, I also prep people for, you know, trials, custody evaluations, um, depositions.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I still do that a little bit, not as much now, but a little bit for other attorneys that need some some help if they're super busy or um if they just prefer that I do it, I will do it.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you ask them what their goal is.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And basically you can turn someone around pretty quick by saying, uh, you know, for example, um, I had a case where the the the person had been using corporal punishment on a child, and I was trying to prep him for trial, I think.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I have the right.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you absolutely have the right.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if your goal is to use that right, that then that's fine.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is your goal to do that?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is your goal to get parenting time?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is your goal to have a good relationship with your child?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is your goal?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because of course you can do that, you know, you're you you you're within the bounds of the law.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Judges hate it, mental health professionals hate it, your child's going to hate it, the other parents going to hate it, and now you could either stop doing it and move forward and use a different form of punishment, you know.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you need to understand, you know, set your is your goal, what is your goal?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is your goal to do it no matter what, or is your goal to, you know, have a better relationship and all these things?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so um when you said that you checked their goals at the beginning, I think that's how you reel in the the pretty difficult people.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: And the the issues that come up at the end of the day.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wait, I owe, you know, we gave my sister money and I want that back.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: I thought of$500 more dollars I want for some random reason.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, all of what do you do about that?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we keep it all contained.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: We everything is contained, everything is discussed when they have early on in the day their first draft of the consent decree.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's got everything in there because that can spin forever.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: You could be there for two days if we're just gonna keep adding on.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then I want the this for child support and just moving that.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: We absolutely don't allow it.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't allow someone to to kind of overtake at the last minute.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'll only sign if this.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's not part of the good faith mediation process.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna pop something on you, and I hope it's okay.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I wonder if there's a tip you know that you can kind of leave people with.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I always like mine is always look, if you're fighting over child support, take both numbers and see what a difference that is, right?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people are literally fighting over$20 and split the difference.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, what what do you have a tip that you do for people to help them sort of you know live with results and come to the table with like a certain expectation or like what tips do you have for people going through this?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, either through your mediation, through another mediation, or just by doing it themselves?
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, 85 to 90 percent of people are unrepresented.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is a tip that you can give them?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you are willing to set the emotions aside at least a little bit, or say this is the goal, all of the orders are pretty pragmatic.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: So you figured it out for child support and spousal maintenance.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Here's the tip: here's what you do.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about all of the factors, all of the inputs right off the bat.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do an income analysis with parties as we're sitting there just like I would do in a consult, just like I would do with my own client, and talk about one party's income, the other party's income, how we arrive at those numbers, how we calculate the insurance for the kids.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Income is a little bit different for child support and spousal maintenance, how we get those numbers, and then show them a worksheet, show them three worksheets to show them that it doesn't move.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: But if you keep your eye on productivity and what's going to go into these orders, you are correct.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: What we're trying to do through this process is get a set of orders that you can live with.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: No one's gonna love the orders at the end of the day, no one is going to win, no one is going to lose.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is absolutely what you can tolerate for today.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: You're not going to get every single thing that you want.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Keep your eye on those goals.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: But the emotions, it's a no-fault divorce state.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: All of the bad behaviors.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can tell me about it.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: I want to hear it.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: I want to help you through those.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: All emotions are welcome at divorce in a day.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: Trust me, it's good, bad, and otherwise.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I always tell every party, you're going to feel unusual tonight.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to go home tonight and probably feel uh unexpected.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even if you're ready for this, even if you've been thinking about it for 10 years, it's it's tough to sign your decree and go home.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the point is that it is a no-fault state and it is not worth the money and the stress.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: If you have minor children, the stress alone, if you have minor children, don't let them see you argue.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let this be a year-long thing that they know you're going through.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Mediation of any kind, some kind of um cordial, peaceful end to your marriage, which is very difficult, is the only way to go.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I I love that and and thank you.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I I agree wholeheartedly.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I, you know, it doesn't matter who wants it, it's still that night, it's gonna suck.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna, there's gonna be some feelings.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, especially when you've done it so cordially and you're just like, you know, wow, that's that's done.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I would imagine I listen, my divorce was pretty cordial, uh, and it was it was still emotional.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I it it is just I like how you said it.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're it it's an unexpected feeling.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's you're not, it's it you almost can't understand it.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um so thank you so much, Kate, for for coming here.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna put Kate's contact information down at the bottom um that you can click on.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll just put your website out there and you know call her if you need to go through a mediation or if you need a divorce, you're over on the west side, but you do stuff online anyway, right?
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: That is one good thing that that came out of COVID, is now we just don't have to like see each other ever, right?
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: Face to face.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can always do so much online.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: You could be in somebody could be in Gilbert and and they can have you as their attorneys just by you know peering telephonically or um through the video.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna put that contact information and thank you so much.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love this idea, I love this whole project.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I just I I think you've done just such a great job.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for that.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that very much.