Latest / Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew / The Merseyside Derby, Title Race and Relegation Debates | Outside the Box EP1

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The Merseyside Derby, Title Race and Relegation Debates | Outside the Box EP1 · Outside the Box with Leon Osman and Tony Bellew

• 0:00
  Welcome to the first ever episode of Outside the Box with Leon Osmond and let's just say
• 0:21
  a heavyweight Evertonian Tony value. We're back with Premier League action this weekend
• 0:26
  and there's a couple of big fixtures including the infamous Messi side derby. So let's kick
• 0:31
  off there a bit of form going into the game from Liverpool and Everton. Everton have
• 0:35
  had a two-hole draw against Brentford. Ozzy, was there a good performance for the Blues?
• 0:39
  Good results. Good results. Definitely good performance. I want to start by going back
• 0:44
  to him being a heavyweight. I like heavyweight. Let's talk about heavyweight. I was a heavyweight.
• 0:52
  Now Leon's took my place in the heavyweight. Now Leon is a heavyweight. So yeah, I'll
• 0:57
  overweight that is. No, no, it's heavyweight Leon. Once you get to say it, everybody's
• 1:01
  a heavyweight. I'm sorry to say it. I'm a heavyweight now. You are now in that weight
• 1:05
  Leon. You have bypassed the cruise weight division and you are now in the heavyweight division.
• 1:09
  You make a sweat on there. Well Tony was saying either now or on the cross-trainer.
• 1:13
  It was not today. Yes. Now we're on the cross-trainer. What did you do?
• 1:18
  As I haven't cheesed, I'm supposed to do it. I almost sweat more than it looks.
• 1:22
  I'm supposed to go myself here. Yeah, I haven't done anything energetic. We are missing the gym.
• 1:28
  When we were tired, we were training. Well, when he retired, he was training with me,
• 1:32
  helping push me. That extra mile as he likes to tell everybody.
• 1:35
  Born in the top running. Yeah. Born in the world title. Yeah.
• 1:37
  We'll meet up. You're welcome. No problem. Was he in the gym more than you when you were
• 1:41
  training. He never went in the gym. Never. I would come in and I would, these would be finishing.
• 1:49
  The usuals, let's just say, would be in the gym. The likes of Sylvan, this stand,
• 1:53
  push in and pull in and do whatever he could do. And then ours would be as far away from
• 1:58
  that place as possible. No, I've had knew you were there. I'd come down at the canteen with me
• 2:02
  cup of tea and me kick out. Just to antagonize the teams. Me and her boy stories like a cup of tea
• 2:09
  and kick out. I'd come down and see how you were doing. I just have to place a scene in the
• 2:13
  dressing room at the very end when he's, you know, getting a shower. I'm jumping into an ice bath
• 2:17
  and yeah, the good old days. But now he actually needs the gym. I do ice baths though.
• 2:23
  We used to just marvel at what he did in the ice baths. He covered it all the way.
• 2:28
  Well, he'd be up to his, literally, he'd have his chin in and his head in case he got it in the neck
• 2:31
  and the chin's and he'd be ice and knock down in the ice bath. Yeah. That's a lot of
• 2:36
  it's usually just getting the ice bath up to the waist and it's just obviously to give the
• 2:40
  legs and he was skinning bones back then. Yeah, I'm definitely not now. I mean, I'm getting
• 2:46
  them staying there for a week now. Just bringing your full circle back to the heavyweight.
• 2:49
  Yeah, there we go. Get him bones back then. He's just letting you know now the full-blown heavyweight
• 2:53
  once again. But hey, we've both done. No, you've just told me. It's not supposed to be proud about that.
• 2:58
  You should be very proud. Thank you. A lot of hard work has been endured and put through to
• 3:02
  go into this kind of shape. Thank you. Do you reckon he's like, you're back in finch,
• 3:05
  getting the gym? Hard. The best not. I wouldn't be anyone to follow at the minute my gym routine.
• 3:14
  I do need to get back into it. He is actually strong, believe it or not, Leon,
• 3:17
  he's supposed to be able to trust me when he's in the gym and he's doing it.
• 3:22
  We had our group and it was me, Ozzy, Ebo, Stubzy and we called it the J and I was waiting
• 3:28
  quietly. Because Ozzy was our coach, he was our head coach at Ebo for many years and we were all
• 3:34
  trying to get it all. Happy as Larry and Leon was very strong, very strong, very, could do everything,
• 3:40
  all of the movements, all the compound movements, all the strength, all the stuff like that he could do.
• 3:44
  So it amazed me that he wasn't actually doing it when he was a player. He was playing purely
• 3:49
  of his ability. I did regret that. When I looked back, I did regret that I wasn't doing a bit more
• 3:54
  in that sense that I could have. Football had moved on so much and you looked so quickly
• 3:59
  that, you know, looking back and down the legs of Layton Baines was doing loads of stuff in the
• 4:04
  gym and it shows you exactly why. Yeah, just to call where I can just make sure you can move
• 4:09
  what weight you've got as quick as you can. I was just... Now, have you used to always be in there
• 4:13
  doing this? Yeah. I was just more of the opinion that the more I did, the more I felt tired and
• 4:20
  heavy and I didn't want to feel like that. So I didn't do it, but you look at the benefits of it
• 4:25
  years later and I probably should have done more and one of the reasons I did seem strong to Tony
• 4:30
  is because I could do pull-ups because I was quite light back then. So I could do 10 pull-ups because
• 4:34
  I wasn't pulling that much up. Yeah, it's a bit weird. I could probably do about three pull-ups now.
• 4:38
  Well, now it's a heavyweight division. Now it's kind of a time when we do pull-ups.
• 4:43
  But now it's athleticism and sport science has gone so much further now since we were training
• 4:50
  and fighting and playing football. It's just if the importance of it is huge. Football is in
• 4:57
  no language, just football is the athlete for sure. And if you're not going to be an athlete,
• 5:00
  then you best jump enough now because that's what you need to be. Well, come back to Finch Farm.
• 5:05
  The atmosphere is going to be good around the lads at the moment after that. That's your old
• 5:11
  role. Yeah, it should be. I'm just this season as a whole. I think Ableton have been
• 5:15
  outstanding this season. Really have the expectation levels were to not be involved in a
• 5:20
  relegation fight this year. It's a progress better than last year to be kind of mid-table,
• 5:25
  but the signings have been outstanding. Jack Greenlich initially before his injury just gave us
• 5:32
  you know, it just gave us a lift in terms of people that want to sign for a quality
• 5:37
  stature and the stature and desire to come and play for us. And then the likes of Keenan Jews
• 5:42
  be all after that. He's grown into his role as one of the main players at the club. So
• 5:49
  off the field signings, we largely got it right. I think the transition has been not necessarily an
• 5:56
  easy one into into Hill Dickens and Stadium, but I think David Moises the perfect man to have come
• 6:02
  back and done it because as you're moving and things are so different and so unexpected in one
• 6:07
  sense, you've got the real security to fall back on of David Moises Everton. So that's worked
• 6:12
  out well. And results especially away from home have been brilliant. You're able to watch out?
• 6:17
  Away from home being brilliant. I think it would have been fantastic. Yes, it's been a struggle
• 6:20
  up and down and on, but ultimately I think the squad and where he's leading them to has done
• 6:25
  really, really well as I said, I was told to be forward. The likes of Keenan Jews be all
• 6:29
  been a revelation. He's been fantastic. Jimmy Garnas being the most unsung hero in the Premier League,
• 6:34
  this whole season. He's been absolutely phenomenal. Every single week, the loud plays, he's played
• 6:39
  right back, he's played left back, he's played centimetre, he's played parts and defence. He's
• 6:44
  been everywhere. He's creative, he scores goals, he's just been fantastic. And getting that England
• 6:49
  call up, it was well overdue in my opinion. Definitely. Oh, outstanding. You've got two caps now.
• 6:55
  Yeah, he called me already. Well done, Jimmy. He's got years on, yeah. He's been fantastic. All
• 7:02
  of the lads have been brilliant. I said, actually, they're just coming through the door. It gives
• 7:06
  them a tonions. And especially the younger generation of a tonions, my kids haven't really
• 7:11
  witnessed or seen anything. I haven't seen much. I'm born in 82. I mean, I know you're
• 7:15
  struggled with 85 side and stuff like that, but I was too young to realise and understand that
• 7:20
  95 is where football starts to mean things to me. And I mean, the FA Cup is the most I've seen.
• 7:26
  I've seen us go around Europe, what are the lads in there? You know, the Wolfsberg,
• 7:29
  away nights, stick with me. But ultimately, these next generation of
• 7:34
  a tonions now, they don't know much besides pain and heartache and belligation fights. And that
• 7:38
  goes with me for the kids. When Jack Riela's science, it gives them hope. Because when I play like
• 7:43
  Jack Riela's science, it tells everyone let everyone know everything on the ascendancy again.
• 7:48
  And David Moise is looking to get in better players, better calibre. Younger players now,
• 7:52
  you know, they see it like said, they're bling, we've joined those. He's obviously got to say
• 7:55
  this amount of potential. And there's just so much on the up. We've just got to now see if we can
• 8:01
  see these last few games out. Because if we can solidify and get your opinion for football,
• 8:07
  ever for football, it's right back amongst them. I've heard you call the character building
• 8:12
  always character building. Especially when you're in the car fight, you know, when your
• 8:15
  misses is a red and she's trying to turn the six-year-old into a car fight. And you're just like,
• 8:22
  it's not happened. Don't start me. That's not a fight you win that often either. No, it's not
• 8:26
  about how I refuse to lose this one. I've never been in a fight before, but trust me,
• 8:31
  like that's what it's like. Like kids probably a couple of years after I retired. We're coming back
• 8:36
  on the train and I've got the train to and from the match with them together and been beaten
• 8:40
  probably unexpectedly. And they're head down on the train and people grumbling and
• 8:45
  everything. And one of my kids, do you give me a little kid turn around to me and said,
• 8:49
  this is your fault dad. I've been retired for the years, mate. Yeah, but you could, you could
• 8:56
  you could play for anyone else. We wouldn't be going through this right now. I was like, I'm really
• 9:01
  sorry. I'm really sorry, but the character building. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough.
• 9:08
  My my kids made it. That's exactly what I look at it as well. They enjoy it. They absolutely
• 9:13
  love the new stadium. You know, the kids are just having the time with their lives and their
• 9:16
  butt. There's no good in the game. You're not going to have some kind of success. And I think
• 9:23
  I do feel like it's it's going to happen. I do feel like the most important thing for me is
• 9:27
  is the manager of the gaffer's back. I think 100% of the summer he has to be back and you believe
• 9:33
  in the process and pack 100% because if you do that, it's the success that I'm going to call.
• 9:38
  Not about I'm a David Moise. It's huge fun. Not everybody's convinced, but can you believe that?
• 9:45
  No, it's shut. It stuns me. And I remember arguing with people in the ground about when I was
• 9:50
  talking to him going, we've got to get him back for years and years and years, just before
• 9:54
  until I was on the verge of coming back before other managers and I was like, go get David Moise,
• 9:59
  go get David Moise. And the people who were in control at the time just didn't want it.
• 10:04
  And it's just it wound me up and he annoyed me. Then they went and wanted them, then they
• 10:08
  did the wrong things around them and in and amongst it, it was just disgraceful. But
• 10:13
  the main thing is, like I can't believe for us people wouldn't want them like now to stay.
• 10:18
  I heard some talks as well going, I think we should have a younger manager in.
• 10:21
  Oh, no, I don't know. We just go away, mate. Just leave me out. Just don't annoy me. I'm not in the
• 10:26
  mood. I think rightfully and the majority of the managers, this is the way I feel anyway,
• 10:31
  know that we've made so much progression this season on the David Moise. He's a good,
• 10:37
  solid pair of hands. But he's also not the same manager that I had. He's actually a little bit
• 10:42
  more relaxed. He's got even more determination to actually win something. He's furious when we
• 10:45
  got knocked out of the cups this year. Like, of course it isn't. That's what you want.
• 10:49
  Yeah. You want somebody who actually is living the same sort of emotions. There's no doubt he's
• 10:55
  living the same emotions as we are now when it comes to winning football matches and
• 11:00
  you know, trying to bring silverware. And that's why bringing it all back round to your first
• 11:04
  question. That's why he's actually taking pride in where we are at the moment. We are going
• 11:10
  into the latter stages of the season. And we are in a good position for European football. I mean,
• 11:16
  results depend. And you can actually have the Champions League right now. I'm not saying we are,
• 11:21
  but I'm saying that's the position we've got ourselves into. We could as well,
• 11:25
  typical of Excel, miss out on it all. But we've got the fact that we're talking about it,
• 11:30
  the fact that we're here, the fact that I thought six games. Yeah. The fact of going into
• 11:34
  these next two games, Brentford away, Liverpool at home, you can get four points out of them.
• 11:40
  That's that's a really good sort of return in your quest to go up the league because of
• 11:45
  you playing against rivals in the situation. Six points. No, we very well could do.
• 11:50
  Yeah, you mentioned there was a bit of a tricky period at first at home. We had a few results
• 11:54
  which were maybe disappointing. But we have actually won the last two barely. And Chelsea,
• 11:59
  that was a three and a great performance. Do you think in the Dhabi, it makes an impact
• 12:04
  that it's the first ever Dhabi held Dickinson? Yeah. I think you want to try and treat it like
• 12:12
  every other game. You want to try and make sure you don't overthink it and get too wrapped up
• 12:18
  in the occasion rather than the game. But just like the last game at Goodison, just like the first
• 12:25
  game at Hill Dickinson Stadium, this is the first Mersy side Dhabi. So there is more on it,
• 12:30
  whether you want to admit it or not, there is that thought that we win the first Dhabi in our
• 12:36
  new stadium. We wouldn't want them to win it. We want to win it. We want to have that as ours.
• 12:42
  There is a bit more pressure, responsibility on the current set of players, but I think they're
• 12:48
  built up to take that at the minute. They've got themselves in a good position confidence-wise
• 12:54
  with performances and results, even getting the last ditch equaliser last week shows the
• 13:01
  character isn't there. We did it in the last Dhabi. Goodison Park going into the latter stages.
• 13:06
  That was an incredible day. So yeah, I think it's a winnable game.
• 13:10
  It's archival for never be in my after that. I was just like to when I see Jax Jax, this is very
• 13:15
  similar. He will always be in my after. I will never forget their moments. Jax is one I swear
• 13:22
  on my kids. I ate that at the bar that day. I was in the end. I was at the game we ate at the bar
• 13:27
  and I celebrated me like I just had the weld. It was a great place. And then that last one,
• 13:35
  I'll usually leave. When I was at Goodison Park, when we were always there every year,
• 13:40
  I would leave 10, 15 minutes with them. But the last season of Goodison Park, I stayed at every
• 13:45
  game. So it was at the end of every single game. You were one of them fans? Yeah. You get in 20 minutes
• 13:51
  before the game and you're off to 10 minutes before the game. I'm not getting caught in the traffic.
• 13:55
  And I'm going to get in and out in the morning because I've got all the stuff to do.
• 13:58
  And that went hard here at that ball. That's just a kid's mistake. Just wow.
• 14:06
  It's not about that shit number. And the last minute at center-offs, we're in number six.
• 14:12
  And off the bar, last seconds of a messy sad time. You don't want we were on four
• 14:15
  seconds on Saturdays. Well, again, it's better than if Keenan takes that chance when he's
• 14:20
  through one on one. And it's a difficult chance because he's not a forward. He's not not
• 14:23
  not straight here. But you're going in, you're leading two on. Instead of going back to get it to
• 14:30
  two two. And I think whenever we go ahead in games, especially away from home, we know to
• 14:35
  shoot teams now. We do it really well. The whole side is very well drilled. There's no spare gaps.
• 14:41
  There's no spaces in the field. And I just think we defend so well once we've got a lead.
• 14:45
  It's just it's really difficult for us, I feel, especially with some of the injuries in the
• 14:49
  players that were missing at the minute to get our team from. We go behind and they showed on
• 14:54
  Saturday that you can do it twice. It's all fair play. I think it's very, very good.
• 14:57
  I've just off the top here and that's four or five times. We managed to do that away from home,
• 15:01
  get last minute game. Game decided as whether that be a last minute winner or last minute.
• 15:08
  Equalizer, we keep going to then that is such a similar sort of feeling that we used to have
• 15:14
  when under David Moe's the first time around that it's that down to the game.
• 15:17
  All you see is all is it down to the tactics, the managing implores, what's it down to?
• 15:21
  I think it's the attitude that the manager sort of sets within the squad,
• 15:25
  how competitive it's just coming down to simple things like our competitive training might be.
• 15:29
  And you know, the next goal is the winner. You know, you don't just decide to stop a game,
• 15:34
  every single train session, there's a getting back into the game of being a winner or,
• 15:38
  you know, given the benefits and the bonus to people that do. And that's when you get there on Saturday
• 15:43
  and you're behind or you're ahead, you make sure you achieve the results and you sort of set that,
• 15:47
  you're right, we've got quality within the team as well. With strikers have slowly grown into
• 15:53
  the season, there was a lot of questions about them at the start of the season, but I think
• 15:58
  if you join the goals together, there are 13 or 14 goals and you know, they've, it's always been one
• 16:03
  of the other. So that's basically like, mashing one striker together and you've got double figure goal
• 16:09
  return from strikers. So I thought there was the positive to reach George coming on. He looked
• 16:13
  really good and aggressive when he was getting forward. When he come on the pitch, he looked like
• 16:17
  he could make a difference. So I'd like to see maybe a little bit more of him before the end.
• 16:21
  I mean, Jack being injured, everyone's talking, everybody's put on speculation up and it looks
• 16:26
  like he's going to be hopefully staying with us for the next season. And that's what you know,
• 16:30
  everyone's saying and talking, but the likes of this study, George, it will keep hold of players
• 16:35
  like him and the development has happened. And I've got no problem with having me in a step
• 16:39
  and stone for now. We'll get back to where we're supposed to be, but if you want to come to
• 16:43
  heaven for the step and stone, that means you're going to do really well when you're there.
• 16:46
  Otherwise, you're not stepping stone anywhere else. If you come to heaven, don't do well. You go on
• 16:51
  back to your pairing club and it's just going to end there for you by them coming to heaven from
• 16:55
  the likes of Chelsea and putting on and so forth. It just gives them an opportunity to shine and
• 16:59
  I just think the look around us now and wanting to take them opportunities and that's good for the
• 17:03
  club. That's good for us. That's good for the fans because it just means we see more attractive
• 17:07
  football, more goals, more adventurous plays because it does not waste them when some of these
• 17:12
  teams are telling them, but probably more. And they just have to hold their hands and say,
• 17:17
  and they just don't want to know. But they're just happy to just sit deep and it's so hard for us
• 17:21
  to break them down at times. And it just feels like it's the way football's going now.
• 17:27
  When you're at home, it can be so negative from the team that arrived at your ground. Do you want
• 17:32
  to quiet in the crowd? Do you want to make the first 20 minutes as dull as possible? I mean, you've
• 17:36
  got people kicking it out from from from a kickoff. That do it ourselves now. I can't get me
• 17:43
  out of the league. There's an arc kickoff. Well, to be fair, we don't kick it out. We kick it. We
• 17:48
  sell the high ends of the air and send it into your box, which causes a little bit of a
• 17:52
  defense in the center. I don't know what to do with it. It's hard. Center halves have spent so many
• 17:57
  years now playing with one striker between two center halves. And everything being protected in
• 18:03
  front. They're only trying to do sliding balls. They're not competing at all. So I was just saying
• 18:07
  just kicking in the corner. Yeah. But that's why that's why long throwings are coming back because
• 18:12
  center halves now with the main guys to go and compete and be dominant and you know, go, you
• 18:18
  know, you'd be playing center for years ago. Let's think she and unless they're now we're up front
• 18:22
  together for new cast. Imagine two center halves in the modern generation trying to go and
• 18:26
  toe-to-toe with just fair and under cheer or big don't go anyone on low to Newcastle and
• 18:32
  Alan Sheer and two center halves coming up without these days. Does that okay? Which center halves
• 18:36
  you've got? They're not physically capable of handling those two anymore because of the way
• 18:41
  their education has gone for the last 15 years. Everything's in front. You compete run in the
• 18:45
  channels. You step in. Everything's a pressing game. So I think that's where it is. And I think
• 18:50
  that's how football's coming back. And that actually might suit us with regards to we want to play
• 18:56
  that kind of football. Well, we want to play largely exciting, entertaining. It's not necessarily direct,
• 19:03
  but positive, positive passes, not negative passes, not overly passing sideers. That's where
• 19:08
  Arsenal is struggling. The moment as well. They're playing too many passes for the sake of it.
• 19:12
  It won't, it just worries me that football has gone more like the NFL. Do you like the NFL? Well,
• 19:17
  that's it. We don't want a thousand. I'm a big fan of the NFL. I am. And that's what that's
• 19:22
  the only thing that worries me. I said, it's so tactical now and where they're going with it,
• 19:26
  whereas just just play football, just let them play. I mean, like I said, kicking it off from
• 19:31
  the kickoff, it sends me nuts. I mean, I remember the first time I ever seen that was when Mason
• 19:37
  Hoggett we went around football, it was some analysis, first game in charge. And Mason Hoggett got
• 19:41
  the ball. He knocked it to him and he just hit it as hard as he could. And it went out a yard
• 19:45
  away from the corner. So it was a perfectly place ball from what he was told to do. I remember going
• 19:50
  to Finch Farm to get a nice bath a couple of days after I went, what was your game means?
• 19:54
  I said, well, he said, don't just do what I was told. He said, he just said, that's what you do.
• 19:58
  It's called zone up play. If the ball is in that zone and the pitch, he can't hear us. And I was
• 20:02
  like, come on mate, don't get me wrong. I was going to get inspired by some of this. We've got to
• 20:06
  do a little tour. The mindset is through the whole as a defender. I'm just going to kick it up there.
• 20:11
  That's why you need good defenders, but you also need players with a much variation.
• 20:17
  And a bit of quality and a bit of, you know, that magic to go in and try to open the door. Like
• 20:23
  early, early at the moment. Well, we had the likes of us. We had the likes of Steven Pino.
• 20:28
  But yeah, I'll give him an honest game. He could get forward. He had a few tricks. It was,
• 20:32
  we had so much creativity. And then we had lads who could find the pass. You guys buried
• 20:37
  these people like that. Players who can find their killer pass. And I feel like we're getting
• 20:42
  near now. We've got the likes of Jimmy Garner. King and juice. We all chuck you. This has got
• 20:46
  a bit of magic. Ellie's got a bit of magic on his side. It reminds me of the old team that
• 20:52
  he's had and especially in the gaffer. I asked you know what I said to the gaffer about a month ago.
• 20:59
  I just wish he could have had another little guy with juice. If he had another little guy who
• 21:06
  had a crush on the yacht. No, the yacht. The yacht. The yacht was brilliant. And the yacht
• 21:12
  score goals for fun. But it's just the year after the gaffer goes. And the amount of goals
• 21:20
  and things that he's got. And and I'm sick of it. People like those who do score goals,
• 21:25
  that's his job. Don't not. You know, when people told us, I think I had an earling,
• 21:31
  I think I had an earling. Yeah, earling stats. Yeah. Yeah. When these people are earling. Yeah.
• 21:38
  When these people are earling, Harland, and I hear some of these pundits and they say,
• 21:42
  he's not very good at yours. He does score goals. Where does he play again, matey? That's his job.
• 21:48
  Two most important positions, probably on the pitch. I sent a forward in goalkeeper because
• 21:53
  whatever they do is going to win or lose you the game. It's going to define the game. And that's
• 21:59
  where they largely operate. So, yeah, I mean, if you're if you're a manager these days, those
• 22:04
  have got to be the first to talk in NFL, you know, if you're going to go into an NFL team,
• 22:09
  you need to go get yourself a quarterback. Yeah. If you're going to into football team,
• 22:12
  you need to get some goalkeeper and a striker. And everything else can be built around them.
• 22:16
  Because you need to get a striker that knows where the goal is. Look at Egor Thiago for
• 22:21
  Brentford at the minute, a guy who is in top form. Brentford got him. But they're not,
• 22:26
  they're not overplaying football and missing out on what he does. They're like, they've gone,
• 22:31
  what is his strengths? How can we get the ball to him to show his strengths off? How can we get him
• 22:36
  the ball in the areas he's going to be dangerous? And that's now Brentford style. He's scored
• 22:41
  brilliant. Well, don't get get your important players and go get the, he's saying,
• 22:45
  he's saying, he's well in the summer goalkeeper center goalkeeper center forward. Go build your team
• 22:51
  around him. He scored down when he goes into the season. Five. Five goals. And I'm not going to lie,
• 22:56
  people won't like this one, but say, well, I don't see him being that much better than a better.
• 23:01
  I think the only difference is he's super competent. He wants the ball, he demands it. And I just
• 23:06
  think a striker who's got his fuller confidence and his scoring goals, it just falls better for him.
• 23:12
  He gets it. I think he's got a bit, I'm not sure. I think he's got a bit of quality. He's a big
• 23:18
  bully. But again, I'm just using him how they want to use it. He has a bully, but as you said,
• 23:22
  the things want to strike it if he'd not play into a strength. He holds the ball up. He brings
• 23:28
  other people into play. It's like when I used to play with Victor and Achibi in sense of,
• 23:33
  you could just put the ball sort of up in his vicinity, flick one around the corner. And he's
• 23:36
  that big. Strong. And I took decent first touch. There actually, you can just, you can play
• 23:42
  percentage, percentage football in that way. Then you can trust yourself to make runs beyond him
• 23:47
  and around him. And because nine times out of 10, the ball's going to stick. Add to that. He gets
• 23:52
  in the box with a real hunger to go and score. So yeah, I think better, betterals doing greatly.
• 23:59
  I think he's doing fantastic. And I just hope he can continue on this streak because he's more
• 24:02
  competent. Is he only capable of sort of doing this in March onwards? Because his numbers,
• 24:06
  his numbers in March and April. But he did this last season, like when he started to score a goal.
• 24:13
  I just think it's a confidence thing with strikers. I think with strikers, it's not confidence.
• 24:17
  It shows tenfold on the pitch. TNL body gets a bit of confidence. I just think better is a
• 24:23
  completely different player than what he was in January of February. He wants to ball. He's
• 24:27
  telling folks, give me the ball. He's got a direction. And I think that's the exact same with
• 24:32
  that he got to go. I just think but every week that boy knows he's playing every week. He's
• 24:37
  aggressive. He's had it. I mean, I mean, it's just running slamming into the tax. I just
• 24:40
  lost your afternoon at you. You are. You just want it when he comes to the whole Dickinson.
• 24:45
  I love stress out of forwards. You want to go and just fight. But keep it on the right side.
• 24:48
  Yeah. You know, you know, when you leave, the laps keeps balled a line getting into Tussles to get
• 24:53
  sent off. There is there's a there's a fine line to to go to. Tell you who's doing it as well
• 24:58
  at the minute. Probably for Sunderland, me and I can just fight in and wanting to go and enjoy
• 25:06
  that side of the game now and still scoring goals off the back of it. It doesn't have players
• 25:09
  who do it, but that's how I go really specialises on it. And I think it's first touch. I mean,
• 25:15
  it's finished. I think yeah, he's a good player, but I see similar traits in better. I just hope
• 25:23
  you can keep that confidence because he's scoring goals before the minute. And if he keeps
• 25:27
  confidence and he made, he could lead us to your genuine believer. I hope so. In this class.
• 25:33
  James, he's big games coming up. Well, you know, listen, who's the one forward who gives
• 25:37
  Vegemondike all the problems? Every single time he plays against him, every party he's just rough.
• 25:43
  And you know what it is? It's because Vegemondike is the most precious sensor forward in the world.
• 25:47
  It's like you can't touch him. You can't tackle him. You can't do anything. His hands are in the
• 25:51
  80s. Winding as soon as someone showed the barges him. He is always need to do that. I mean,
• 25:54
  he says, he's an amazing player. I'm not saying he's not. Vegemondike is one of the best
• 25:58
  sensor backs I've ever seen. But it's like when he plays against him during autumn. You know, I've
• 26:03
  ever, I remember Trudini talking about saying he's the best sensor back ever played against
• 26:07
  even smelt nice. Gong, Gong, William. Gong absolutely, William. Gong kick him as hard as you can in
• 26:13
  the first five minutes and get him, let him know you're in a fight today. And I think that's what
• 26:17
  better does. He doesn't necessarily enjoy playing against a better one because he's physical.
• 26:23
  Two, he wants to do that better. He wants to say the fight to him. Three, he doesn't always know
• 26:28
  what he's doing either with regards to where he's running and what's happening, where the ball's
• 26:32
  going to bounce. Is that a confidence issue? No, he doesn't know what he's doing. That's more of a
• 26:36
  quality issue. I understand that exactly. Show me down there, Leon. Where the ball's going to go,
• 26:42
  but that doesn't mean that he's not good at what he's capable of in terms of getting the ball
• 26:48
  up to nice to, you know, played with a few center, set the forwards down the day, going all the way
• 26:53
  back to Danny kind of battery through to, through to other ones that were the strach. Yeah.
• 26:58
  Oh, yeah, the strach as well. Big Dennis. The ball would come up to, but you were sort of,
• 27:04
  as you the balls come into you, you're thinking he's just going to clap him, you know, he's going to
• 27:08
  clap to me and you can't help it. I've got the ball there first. He's sort of, they've allowed
• 27:11
  me to have it and then training as well. Yeah, well mostly because they can't help with Danny
• 27:16
  kind of actually give you dead legs without me into like literally, you know, everyone be walking
• 27:20
  off because he's just so powerful. Yeah. He's huge and his knees, I think, were sharp. I actually
• 27:26
  think his knees were sharp and he used to get dead legs and that's the kind of, that's the kind
• 27:31
  of thing Beto does well. He worries center offs. Center offs might come out on top against him,
• 27:37
  but they're generally worried about getting clattered. Yeah. They're generally because what he does as
• 27:41
  well, if the, you're going challenge for a ball in the air quite early, center half might head it
• 27:47
  and then he'll just go and give him a whack. And then the next ball that comes up, the center half's
• 27:51
  thinking he's going to get, he's coming again, he's coming again and even if he does it, suddenly
• 27:55
  that's something in the mind, which might put them off and maybe that's something that Beto's
• 28:00
  been doing some edge of undying. May I think, yeah, I'm seeing plugins that will be really good.
• 28:05
  So I just hope that form continues. I really, really do. Yeah, it's definitely a key battle.
• 28:12
  Moving on to Liverpool. The form's been inconsistent. I know you've watched some
• 28:16
  couple of times where, over where you do Aussie, what would you say is the problem there?
• 28:23
  I don't know. I think that even Liverpool fans had agreed it's been an underwhelming season.
• 28:31
  I expected to do another title, get another title under the belt this year. They spent an awful lot of
• 28:37
  money. One of the things is definitely the squad depth, right? They've, you know, you look at cities
• 28:44
  bench at the weekend and it is stacked. You look at Chelsea's, maybe not so much stacked. Oh,
• 28:50
  some stacked. Liverpool's got three minimum kids on the bench and that's probably not including
• 28:57
  Ungamoa who's 17, but actually right on the cusp of being an important member of the first team.
• 29:05
  It's probably not included in him. And they've only got a couple of injuries, Bradley,
• 29:10
  Endow, who's not really playing that much anyway. There's not many more.
• 29:15
  I've got the only that the centre half he's been at a miss for them, even though we didn't see
• 29:19
  much of them. I don't know what they've got, but maybe I know they spent five, six hundred
• 29:22
  million. Yeah. So I was the bench then. Well, at least he put it all onto two or three players,
• 29:27
  the need to be brought here to has done okay. But the price tag is, is putting a lot of weight on
• 29:36
  his shoulders that is, that is, that is unnecessary and unexpected. I mean, well done to the
• 29:41
  selling club overpaying on the buying club. And it's, I think it's sort of costable because I'm
• 29:46
  looking at their squad. Now I'm thinking they look like they need a reinvestment. Next year,
• 29:51
  they need another 250 pounds bent on, especially if Salas come out and said he's going.
• 29:55
  Robertson says he's going. There's, there's places you need to comment your figures in you.
• 29:59
  Cover already. I think they're, they've been, I mean, I'm not talking, I'm not trying to
• 30:05
  negatively talk about this before the derby and get, you know, look stupid. Next year,
• 30:09
  just talk about Liverpool's, just season. They've been quite slow in possession of the ball
• 30:14
  under club. They literally just ran all over you. They were so energetic and enthusiastic and so
• 30:19
  quick. Actually, you couldn't recover in time or they physically worried. I don't know. They had
• 30:23
  that many attacks that in the end, one got through was they're quite slow and they get into
• 30:28
  the final third and then probably have too many passes, which doesn't suit a team at the moment
• 30:36
  in the Premier League. You were talking before about the style of football when teams come to
• 30:40
  Hill Dickinson and when teams go away from home, they just basically sit on the edge of the box.
• 30:44
  That's not suit and Liverpool's modern style of control, not in the Premier League.
• 30:49
  They're not having enough efforts to goal. So it's, it's all, it's not been exactly what
• 30:55
  Liverpool fans want. I mean, you'll be hearing the Memorans as well of real frustration with
• 31:02
  with what they're seeing this season. So it's been,
• 31:06
  it's everyone complicating it and just going right in a sphere season, he brought no one.
• 31:12
  He basically had a year in club team and in the second season, he's tinkered with it,
• 31:17
  he's messed around and that's his team now. That's his team in the second season.
• 31:21
  The first season, the first season, it wasn't his. Did he bring anyone in after that?
• 31:24
  After the Ebookiser in that first season, I don't think he very played any in that season.
• 31:30
  No, he didn't change much. I compare it, this is just again my, my mental thoughts.
• 31:36
  I compare it to where the Beto Martins joined us after a Moises 10 year of so long and we were all
• 31:42
  very well set in our ways. Exactly. We were drilled, we got four, we got back,
• 31:47
  but actually when the Beto came in, he gave one or two players a bit of freedom. We started
• 31:52
  to the full backs in particular, which meant that me as a central midfielder at the time,
• 31:57
  so it didn't get, didn't get forward so much, but it actually caught other teams out because we
• 32:02
  were attacking in different ways, but we were all recovering. So our full backs got forward,
• 32:07
  but by God they got back. The wide men, when the full backs overlapped them,
• 32:12
  then wide men would, you get Moralesis would run back and get back.
• 32:15
  And that's the course of the season went on. Obviously we had a brilliant season,
• 32:20
  that's the course of season went on. By the time we got to March, those sort of things within
• 32:27
  the team had started to stick. Roberto was telling, give Morales not to track back anymore,
• 32:31
  he was telling other people not to track back anywhere, it'd be on the pit.
• 32:34
  But Spacers, he'd get back and get back on. Man, it just told me not to anymore.
• 32:38
  And suddenly, those little things sort of stick, that actually instead of 11 men running back.
• 32:43
  Now you've only got six men running back and you get caught out a little bit and things
• 32:48
  aren't quite moving or the standards that you'd had are slowly slipping away. And I felt
• 32:55
  that I'm just seeing similarities with Liverpool. That's why Roberto never really recovered
• 33:03
  after that. We were never able to get back up to the same height that we started.
• 33:07
  We were, I think we finished 10th and 11th the next few seasons and he got, he got the sack and
• 33:12
  just look at slot and wonder if he can actually get them back on track.
• 33:15
  Seeing the same things happen that he's allowed Liverpool to not attack as quickly.
• 33:20
  And to try and be slow on the ball. And now suddenly he's trying to speed them back up.
• 33:24
  You've took a year, slow on them now. Now it takes, it took a club two years to get him
• 33:30
  sped up. But when Bobby comes in also, a massive part is I thought our squad was one of the
• 33:34
  fittest in the Premier League. And it always sticks with me. I think we must have had about
• 33:40
  seven hamstrings go after, after about 10 weeks. And he had more hamstrings go in, in them
• 33:47
  few weeks, the Moise at that and about five years, the last five years, which that lets you know
• 33:52
  that you know what the fitness levels just aren't at the same level. The training levels isn't as
• 33:57
  intense. They weren't, she'd that to me guessing that we trained, we trained off the ball with
• 34:04
  Moise to start with, you know, it was first week, especially at the start, preseason, you didn't
• 34:09
  see a ball that started to change as he, as he progressed, but Roberto came in and brought the ball.
• 34:14
  That was all fine, but the difference in my opinion was when we were training under Moise,
• 34:20
  we trained until the fittest amongst us got exhausted, which then meant like I might not be the
• 34:27
  fittest, so I'd probably fell off the cliff 10 minutes before with the end of the session and
• 34:32
  couldn't move any more, but we kept going because we needed such a body whoever's the fittest
• 34:36
  and squad to actually feel this session as well, to push and get through this session as well,
• 34:39
  which kind of brings everyone along and gets you all there was once we started getting all of those
• 34:45
  injuries, mostly the likes of James McCarthy, for instance, we were training until James McCarthy
• 34:52
  had had enough and it would be then right, that's enough, James you've done enough right and we'd
• 34:56
  we'd kind of all stop and that was the end of training session because he wanted to keep us,
• 35:00
  but we were sharp in that, let's just say it was 35, 40 minutes, we did do that sharp and we did
• 35:05
  training, we did a few sprints in there, but once that 40 minute mark came then, don't want anyone
• 35:10
  to get injured and we'd kind of stop at that point, so I can't, I'm in a game that was kind of,
• 35:14
  because in a game you're going to have to keep playing, well that's where the injured
• 35:17
  at that time, we did seem to stop after a while, so maybe it's mad, it's just different coaches,
• 35:24
  with different philosophies, different theories or how do you want to set up and how do you want
• 35:27
  into play, but it just amazes me sometimes, it really does, like I said, that's a perfect example,
• 35:35
  I've said Jagen, Jagen Klopp's team slots up at the test, yeah, and Leon's talking about
• 35:40
  Roberto Martínez, I'd David Moise's team in that first year, which he did and the fitness
• 35:45
  levels, and it just shows you how quick when someone gets control, you can disrupt every one of
• 35:50
  the team, and it happened in our second year, under Bobby, and it's happening now in slots up,
• 35:56
  it's been a great first season, let's take on a throne away from Anas Lott, not sat in
• 35:59
  fashion, I mean, when the title in his first year and congratulations to him, although it hurt,
• 36:05
  an awful lot, congratulations, I didn't even know, I didn't even know, I didn't even want to
• 36:09
  see a culture, I didn't know, didn't know you wanted to, but congratulations to him, but
• 36:15
  if you're looking at Liverpool still, the boot room all them years ago, they went from
• 36:21
  from Shankley to Paisley to Bagan, right through the boot room to try and keep it as similar as
• 36:27
  possible, whereas Jürgen Klopp to Anas Lott, German mentality and thought about football to the
• 36:35
  Dutch, they're so different, so I think you're starting to see the progression and maybe slots
• 36:42
  is building a Dutch style of pool team. Do you think that'll work? No, I'm not sure it's
• 36:49
  meant, it's built for Premier League football, as it stands, yeah, I don't know, I think European
• 36:55
  football, I think it does suit them, don't say that please, because there's still in the
• 36:59
  Champions League, just that, I'll talk about this next week, I was going to say, I don't need that.
• 37:04
  They've got PSG this week, yeah, so we're filming prior to that and then obviously they've got
• 37:09
  the bottles. Never write them off, mate, never write them off, don't even whisper it, don't
• 37:14
  even say it because it's not their place, it's right. Trust me, anything can happen at that
• 37:19
  round. Yeah, that's not so sweet though. Yeah, that's just leave it be, just leave them alone,
• 37:22
  let's talk about it next week. Don't do it, mate. It's gone too many times, don't laugh at them.
• 37:29
  I was one of them feeling that I think I don't talk to them. Yeah, don't do it. I was one of them
• 37:33
  Plumpots texting people at half time in Istanbul, mate. I was one of them Plumpots after Messi was
• 37:39
  having a laugh at the come now, laughing at them saying, what are you doing? Just retire
• 37:44
  before the second leg could start, so I was one of them Plumpots messaging me, mate,
• 37:48
  telling them, I don't do that anymore. I'll never do it again, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I apologize,
• 37:53
  I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I don't tell you, I don't tell you. Anything's
• 37:59
  possible at that horrible ground, so I will never do it again. So yeah, yeah, just leave it there.
• 38:04
  I'll end on this with the ever-and-liberal chat, a risky question. Are ever in favour
• 38:09
  going into this game, giving them the form? What do you think? Yeah, I do. I think I have them
• 38:16
  up the odds on, that's a way. I must say though, a lot depends on someone at night. They lose
• 38:23
  someone at night. Equipiality, equipiality job. Really? Yeah, before the derby. That's what
• 38:30
  worries me, I need them in the job. I need them in that job, I need them at the hill diggerson
• 38:37
  with that shiny head on that front row maze. So you're tempting fate again? You're doing it
• 38:44
  already. I need them there, like the crystal maize that fellow there is, I just need them sitting
• 38:49
  on that front row. He goes, you're just like the fellow crystal maize. I need them sitting there
• 38:54
  on that front row maze at the hill diggerson and whatever happens happens to them. I don't,
• 38:57
  I pay very little attention to Liverpool. I did, I was part of a debate this morning, I must say,
• 39:03
  they were talking about real in the mower and about should he play, should not,
• 39:09
  there's some people over complicating things that I make it hard and football by giving all
• 39:14
  these fans these talks and this jargon of these spells. It's quite simple if he's good,
• 39:20
  if he's good enough, he's old enough. As simple as that. I mean, if you're good enough,
• 39:26
  you're old enough, just downplay, let him play. Yeah, I think it's a certain
• 39:33
  position on the team, yes. I think you can do that at the top end of the pitch. I think there's
• 39:40
  a lot of freedom to sort of go and do what you're going to do at the top end of the pitch because
• 39:45
  you can take your chances, you can make your mistakes and your mistakes won't hurt us.
• 39:50
  It gets a little bit harder as you move further. I get that, I've sent it off a goalkeeper,
• 39:53
  a central midfielder, I get it. But this kid, I've only seen the goal, I didn't watch the
• 39:59
  game at all. But by looking at him, he makes a difference, he's energetic, he's got loads of
• 40:06
  pace, he's our people, he doesn't have 3,000 steps, always in two seconds, it doesn't matter.
• 40:11
  If he's good enough, he's old enough, let him play. Simple as that.
• 40:15
  I don't know what he's saying, with regards to favourites, I don't think it matters.
• 40:22
  People can say favourites are not favourites, it's a derby. The old adage for them goes out
• 40:27
  the window, it's so true. I have actually been in teams that have been in better form,
• 40:32
  in the league or feeling favourites going into the game and Liverpool still turn up or we don't
• 40:41
  turn up. And there's been the same case either way when we've been underdogs and beat them.
• 40:46
  So it really doesn't matter as much, all that matters is who turns up on the day, who shows
• 40:52
  enough hunger, desire, who's got that look in their eye to go out and make things happen,
• 40:58
  one way or the other, put through all of that and this applies for both teams. Whoever shows more
• 41:04
  quality, it will be a good fight and a battle and there will be percentage football getting
• 41:10
  it for winning second balls, but within there there'll be sprinkles of quality and whoever shows
• 41:15
  more of them will win the game. Do you think it means they're the team and they're the squad
• 41:21
  with the superstars and the big money sign and stuff like that? Does it mean as much to them
• 41:26
  players as well? Will it be put across to them, them signs that have come in for them, the big
• 41:32
  money signs have listened, this is important, this means everything to us, this is everything to us.
• 41:37
  I expect so because there'll be people within the squad like, it's Jones and people who've been
• 41:43
  at the team a long time like Robertson and even they're like Salar and Van Daiku,
• 41:48
  aren't from the area originally, but I've been here that long that'll know the importance of the
• 41:53
  game. Just like on our side, there'll be players in our dressing, Jimmy Garmes, Chimis that will be
• 41:59
  saying look to those who are new to it. This is not just about you guys now and this is, I say,
• 42:05
  both sides of the divide. This is about the fans, this is about the fan base, this is more than
• 42:12
  this is about individual pride being able to go home happy, then you've got the three points,
• 42:19
  then you've got the quest for European football, then you've got the factors to first
• 42:23
  Arby and Hill Dickinson Stadium, they'll be getting told the importance of this game,
• 42:27
  that it's more than a three points. Yeah, it's definitely going to be an interest in occasion
• 42:31
  and hopefully it's a three points for the softies. There's a couple of other big games going on
• 42:37
  on the weekend, arguably one, well, Rose, this is the big game because we haven't been fans,
• 42:40
  but Arsenal are paying Manchester City a visit to the ASEAD.
• 42:45
  Big game, big game because Arsenal are getting criticised at the minute.
• 42:50
  Not like the Stumbling, don't they? Not like the Stumbling.
• 42:54
  You're all made under the bed of fire, Nanny.
• 42:57
  Michael, yeah, he's still brilliant, by the way. Again, Arsenal fans, I'm hearing
• 43:02
  I want him out because he can't seem to get them over the line, and I'm thinking
• 43:08
  when he took over, you were in disarray, you've now become this squad that you have,
• 43:12
  you're on the cuffs, yes, you're going to keep going. Deep into the Champions League,
• 43:16
  look like you're going to get to a semi-final, you are in pole position to get the title,
• 43:21
  albeit you have to get over the line. It's in his hands. What more can Arsenal fans,
• 43:25
  that's what it's in your hands? The one thing that worries me about them at the minute,
• 43:30
  though, is nobody just listening to fans, nobody seems to want Arsenal to win it.
• 43:38
  I know everyone I talked to says they want them to lose, they want City to come back and win
• 43:42
  the league, and I'm like, I get it for the fact that it'd be a great story, but I don't mind
• 43:46
  someone new way. The only people I haven't seen say the one Arsenal to lose it was Nihibot
• 43:53
  and Paul Skulls, because they were the only people I have seen say want Arsenal to win.
• 44:00
  I was like every other person, and I'm talking every other football fan from different teams
• 44:07
  all around the country when I'm working, when I'm out of the oil. I don't hate Arsenal, I just think
• 44:13
  I'm none of it. I don't even hate it. They've pulled anyone I'm passed on, I'm passed
• 44:16
  keen. I'm just off the basis of whoever deserves to win, should win.
• 44:23
  I don't know, you just want to see the best team. I'd say if they don't win it this year,
• 44:26
  that will scar them for life. Yeah, it'll scar them if they don't win at least one of these two
• 44:33
  competitions they're in. I mean, they got close and they've they've actually been to pick which one
• 44:38
  would they pick? I think they pick Premier League this year. Yeah, I'd never won the Champions League
• 44:43
  though. I know they haven't, but they haven't won a European Cup? Yes, they've won it. Not the European,
• 44:48
  they've won. Yes, they've won, but we've won European Cup. One of European trophies would have been
• 44:54
  never won the biggest one. They've got to the final, didn't they? In 2006, 2008, somewhere like that,
• 45:01
  got to a final. Yeah, they would have been in Barcelona. They've lost that great team.
• 45:10
  Yeah, I'm doing that game, yeah. I just think they want to win the Premier League. I think
• 45:15
  having got yourself into such a good position if you don't get over the line because they've
• 45:19
  done well last couple of seasons, but they were always chasing whereas this season they got themselves
• 45:23
  out ahead bit like there's another sport. I'm on like Rory did at the end of Masters. That was a good
• 45:28
  loss. That was a great loss last time. That was a good loss. I was fantastic. Or he getting himself
• 45:32
  ahead and then got pegged back and you're like, whoa, he's about to lose it. He's not going to
• 45:36
  recover, but just shows you it's never going away. And I just think Arsenal might be able to do that.
• 45:40
  I think I think the game against City might be a good thing for them because it's a game that is
• 45:47
  toe-to-toe. I think the pressure has been building on them amounting because the
• 45:50
  playing in games are expected to win. Is it at the ASEA? Those are at the ASEA.
• 45:57
  I think they're going to go there. It's a shut up shot. I think they're going to win.
• 46:03
  I think if Arsenal Arsenal, I've got defensive capabilities to go to a shut up shop anyway.
• 46:07
  I think if they go there to draw and shut up shop, they'll lose. I think they have to go make a
• 46:11
  game of it. They can't just let City, especially with the form of Cherokee. Cherokee is playing out
• 46:16
  playing football with them as it is. He's asked to wait until I win. If you see, if you see,
• 46:20
  it is. Harlan's on fire. Harlan's on fire. That Gabrielle and the other fellow just need to be
• 46:26
  kicking him. Gabrielle, you've seen the stats of Arsenal and Manchester's form in April.
• 46:34
  I don't know the exact thing, but it's something like Arsenal and Michele Arteta have won one game in
• 46:39
  April in four seasons or five seasons, whereas it's Manchester City's favorite month. They always
• 46:44
  win all the games in April, which the precious stuff, if you're not, you're going to panic
• 46:50
  for the season. It's the time and there's pressure. I think Pech came out and said it's because it's
• 46:54
  warm. It's, yeah, it's team likes it better when it's warm. It's warm. It's warm. So we just
• 47:02
  win games. It's warm. Yeah, we don't win in cold. It's unbelievable, but it's, um, but as a manager,
• 47:09
  that's incredible. You just, you just have to hold your hands up and admire, because he literally
• 47:15
  he rebuilt this team from scratch. Like, they had such a downpour here that at the time,
• 47:20
  they were absolutely dreadful. Everyone was bouncing them. They were losing game after game,
• 47:25
  they, and he just found a way. I don't even know how he's done. He just found a way to stay
• 47:29
  in and amongst it. What did he call up my golfers? Is he scramble and scramble?
• 47:34
  It's that, that's what he's done. Sometimes you've got to scramble through games and then he got to
• 47:38
  January and he thought, actually not far off this. So within this, for the first time I've seen him
• 47:43
  do in, in many occasions, he went and bought big in January, bought some in you and gave you two
• 47:48
  actual game changes for a much of a mess up, but that Liverpool back, back stuff is that because
• 47:56
  he was, he should have been the priority. How have you missed him? You know, finally,
• 48:02
  Slack gets the sack. Them two have to be gone as well, because they are just as culpable as him
• 48:09
  without a shadow of it. How can you leave out a cent or a half? And you've gone and spent
• 48:14
  on two forwards, because Eckert's UK looks like he's exceptional. He looks really good. Is that
• 48:19
  we know what he can do? Why do you need to? Why do you need to go and prioritise what you need at the
• 48:25
  back? Because I actually think Mark Gay has gone so much up in my estimation. I think he is one of
• 48:31
  the best years in the world. Never mind the Premier League. I think he is exceptional. So calm on
• 48:36
  the ball. He's a goal threat. Defensive abilities are fantastic. His position or play, he's very,
• 48:43
  rarely caught out. I just think how have you missed him? It's surprising. You seem like he's going to
• 48:51
  have a relative value, didn't he, because as his contract was going down, his value was sort of
• 48:56
  going down as it will do, as times go and buy. Liverpool didn't want to overpay. They've just
• 49:03
  thought we had a big Liverpool. Even though it had been at a three-year contract left, it had been
• 49:07
  worth, let's just say, 60, 70 million. They wouldn't pay, and then Manchester City decided to pay,
• 49:14
  which for his contract left was definitely paying over the odds, but it seems worth it.
• 49:20
  And if you look at it, you just buy in a play, you bought him for X amount of money, and I just
• 49:24
  think they probably got caught up with Dan City saw through it, and saw the opportunity there
• 49:29
  because he's right. He's a brilliant player. They're actually, if those two signings, him in particular,
• 49:35
  help win City the title. So many of us being phenomenal as well. He had the
• 49:39
  ground on him, didn't he? He had the ground on him. He's a top player. He is. But just last
• 49:43
  one on Gaye, if Liverpool didn't get him because they didn't want to pay over the contract price,
• 49:48
  but City do get him for that price, even though it's overpaying, it's not. It's definitely underpaying
• 49:55
  to win the Premier League title. I just thought him there, and I think, I just think it's
• 49:59
  that one. Yeah, arrogance of Liverpool. I think it's like, listen, where the big Liverpool
• 50:02
  football could be your way for us till the end of the season, your way for us. No, he won't.
• 50:07
  No, he won't. You know, why he won't? Because he's got commercial value and he's a commodity,
• 50:11
  and they've seen that in him. They've given him what he wants. He'll get everything he needs.
• 50:15
  See you later. And I think that's pure naivety. And like I said before, it's just, it's just Liverpool.
• 50:23
  Why do you think like you're special? So who's winning the title?
• 50:28
  I still think I'll win it. What a city win. Oh, wow. I feel for Miguel. I like Miguel.
• 50:35
  Miguel's turned over at the right amount. So fair play to him, but I've got a lot of love for
• 50:40
  the kind of, that would be very, I thought would be about. Arsenal can't lose that game.
• 50:45
  They've asked to lose that game. Yeah, they lose to me. Let me tell you, the reds have gone,
• 50:49
  the legs have gone. If for any moments, it's in cities and people will argue at this moment,
• 50:53
  now it's in cities and right now, but really it's not. No, no, no. I still think it's in Arsenal's
• 50:58
  answers. And with, even though you've got games and other games to play, they've played them,
• 51:02
  so they've got the points on the board. I just think it's all on that game.
• 51:07
  Yeah, they better go to the ass, you haven't got something. And the white pep drives them up,
• 51:11
  and I just think they'll be at it. They will be at it. But I don't think there's a better defensive
• 51:18
  units in the Premier League than Arsenal. So when they're on it and they don't want to concede,
• 51:21
  they will, they won't concede. It's just as he's saying, do you need to get a goal? Do you need
• 51:26
  to go out there and play a bit? If he does go out there to play, I think that could be done
• 51:32
  I think it could be an absolute time because the way they're playing the forward boys,
• 51:36
  that dog who's quality, that chick, he's quality Harland, the creativity is all over the pitch.
• 51:41
  Rodry's not even adding them is playing well at them. And it's like he's, he still looks like
• 51:46
  the injury's affected him. He's like, he's a six out of 10 each week. You know he's got
• 51:50
  a lot of them. But now they're still very good. Just trying to get out of Turkey. As I said,
• 51:54
  a stepped up, perhaps sort of allowed. So he didn't trust Cherokee at the start of the season,
• 52:00
  but he's just allowed him to go and get on the ball and play kind of plays him as a free role.
• 52:05
  He counted the minute, just going to have a goal. Just go and find yourself the ball and he's
• 52:11
  repaying him 10 fold at the minute, especially in a big moment. I just think it all comes down to
• 52:15
  this game as we end. Like I said, if Michele goes there and wants to draw, I think he'll get his draw.
• 52:22
  I think they can defend. I think that Gabriel Saliba, I think Declan Rice is phenomenal.
• 52:28
  What a player. What a player. Bill O'Shaubner, by any means, at West Ham.
• 52:32
  Bill O'Shaubner said to me, I think he's the best football that he's ever seen.
• 52:36
  So they're harsh. I worked with Dave for another year. They're harsh, but okay. I'll phone him on the
• 52:42
  way up. And you know what the thing he said to me was, he said to me, you know, only seeing
• 52:48
  50% of what he's got. And I was like, he said, just coaches having an affinity to play.
• 52:53
  He probably was Declan once in the gym and I'm awake, but then he was like, like this bison.
• 52:58
  He was sparesed in the gym and last half-declan. I was probably one of them.
• 53:01
  Oh, I sell David Biori. David Saliba, both sales sales. So, so man's the greatest
• 53:05
  defender of the world's ever seen. Yeah. Who was an amazing defender, by the way, as well.
• 53:09
  But that's what he's like and what it literally came to fruition. And it was, it was last season
• 53:14
  at some point. I think them for the kicks against, against Ramadrid. He started a couple of
• 53:19
  the kicks. And Bill always says, I can do everything. I can score. I can pass. I can create. I can
• 53:24
  defend. I can do the whole lot. And it was only until I get my thoughts. Oh, so man's off in
• 53:29
  the end, but Bill always said that moment's all I'm used to going to thought in that line.
• 53:34
  And he just, I just think they've got it going over the line. They look like they're really shaky
• 53:38
  months at the moment. They look like they're suffering the struggling with it. I wouldn't say the
• 53:43
  nerves. I just think they're struggling with the expectation. That's what I think these
• 53:47
  Arsenal players are struggling with. And I think once they get it over the line, I think if they
• 53:51
  come out of that game with a point against City, they'll see the light at the end of the tunnel.
• 53:55
  That'll be the one that gets them over the line. But if they're to get dealt with in that game. Oh,
• 54:00
  that's that's a harsh one. Yeah. Not even spoke about spurs. I was going to say that's the last
• 54:06
  picture. We'll have a look at this. I just can't back to his old club. I can't see the eyes. I just
• 54:12
  can't see them on that. You can't have the two big. I don't know what you're going to say. But I
• 54:16
  don't. How do you feel about any spurs fans that are experiencing now for a year? What we've
• 54:24
  actually been through? I've had them laugh and I've had them laugh and be over the years. Yeah.
• 54:28
  When I go to work and work the box and so we're the one fan base that can understand what really
• 54:32
  is. Yeah. I feel for them. I do really feel for them. But I think they're going to be okay.
• 54:39
  Don't ask me why I think that. Don't ask me how I think what belief I've got now. I just
• 54:44
  I just think the spurs are too big. I just I'm not having that ground in the championship. I'm sorry.
• 54:49
  I don't know the way. I don't know if it works. I know. I know that sounds childish. I don't know
• 54:55
  it's long to say. I know they didn't get as many points. But they've got a really good stadium. So
• 54:59
  you're up. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to let the next one go. I'm sorry. I'm going to let the
• 55:03
  small couple down. They've got a little stadium. You're just going to have to go.
• 55:06
  Do you agree with that in terms of spurs? Are they too too big to go down? I wouldn't say the
• 55:11
  performance as well as well. They are playing some terrible football. There's no sort of
• 55:17
  fight about them. They've got to win at least two games and I'm saying at least they've got wolves
• 55:22
  put away from home. They've got Brighton this weekend at home, which they can get behind maybe.
• 55:28
  That's where the problems are going. They've got leads at home as well, which is huge for
• 55:33
  for both teams. The thing about spurs that worries me from a spurs point of view is they've
• 55:40
  got a lot of players who like to play football. So when you come into then scrapping it, they've
• 55:44
  got players who want to get on the ball and try and find a pass. I don't know. I compare them to us.
• 55:52
  I don't know if they've got enough fighters. Dogs of war as we would call it in terms of
• 55:57
  this is going to be ugly. This is going to be get the ball forward, kick them, jump on them, win
• 56:04
  second balls, force the ball into the back of it. They need six points. I think they need it.
• 56:08
  They're on 30 now. Yeah, I think they need at least two wins, right? Because West Ambroth
• 56:14
  32 is it? As is another team, I think West Ambroth, get a game and I'll have everything.
• 56:18
  I've tried to speak, I've got a game and now I'm saying games and I just don't think when I'm
• 56:23
  looking at them going to Sunderland, when I'm looking at them, they'll probably play against Brighton
• 56:27
  next week and try and outplay Brighton. Whereas when you're down there, you only need one nervous
• 56:32
  passing that all that play goes out the window and I just worry in terms of I don't see enough
• 56:39
  fighters. I don't see enough dogs of war. I don't see enough second ball winners. They're actually
• 56:43
  go right. The chips are down yet. Let's fight our way through this. It's going to be no quality.
• 56:48
  We're going to hook every ball on. We're going to go win the press. We're going to go do this.
• 56:52
  I see them trying to play the way out of it and it's hard to do when you're down there.
• 56:58
  It's hard to do when you're at the top. Never mind down it. And he's a controversial manager.
• 57:02
  He's going to like them up in certain ways that some of them are kind of liking.
• 57:06
  I think the best thing for Spares is you've gone and said to him, he's our man for five years.
• 57:11
  Yeah. Because none of these players are going to go listen, none of them want to go down
• 57:16
  and financially it's a huge hit for all of them. But when you've got a manager who's coming in
• 57:21
  like he got chewed or and you know, right, he's coming in as a caretaker. He'll be gone next week.
• 57:25
  Yeah. But I'm not having any. And I just think a part of me just thinks, by giving this
• 57:30
  desire, be it easier, easier, and you better, you better form to his ways.
• 57:37
  You're right, but even that contracts don't mean an awful lot these days.
• 57:40
  In terms of he might decide he's walking out and they might sack him. They might be an
• 57:43
  understanding in terms of that. Possibly, but I just think I just think that too big of
• 57:49
  too much quality. I mean, how? They do have quality. They do have quality.
• 57:55
  One thing that one thing that again, but yes, he'll get about the pitch and fight, but he's not
• 58:00
  someone who wants to hook the ball on. He's not somewhere. He's one of these footballers at once.
• 58:05
  That's to be clear. He's in Ritchie. Cool as Evsky being out injured.
• 58:10
  That's one thing to say about deserve being his first game, though. He left out,
• 58:14
  Shabby Simmons, and he left out Tell, and he left out. Yeah.
• 58:18
  You more imaginative flow team, and he did put sort of three strikers on the front and more
• 58:22
  of your grafted. So maybe in the next couple of games, another week working with them and just
• 58:27
  maybe getting them, because you know, when you're down, you make the pitch as small as possible,
• 58:31
  and you play in areas and you're trying to overwhelm teams, maybe just might take another weeks
• 58:36
  where the train, because they were really open against something, and they let them play through
• 58:40
  at times, and yeah, I mean, it's Romero out. Now I came up to pitching tears last week. I don't
• 58:46
  know if that was because of a few seasons overall. Do you think they go or do you think they stay?
• 58:52
  I think I think they might go in on. Who would you say goes down? They might.
• 59:00
  Well, obviously, the two that are down there at the minutes, wolves and barely.
• 59:04
  Wolves and barely, if I don't do, you should look. West Dumber in a good bit of form. West Dumber
• 59:08
  playing really well, and I love the foundation as well. The leads are having a tough time,
• 59:12
  and forests are scrapping, but things keep going. They've got a lot to answer for.
• 59:19
  That man and Alex has got a lot to answer for. How have you let that brilliant manager do what
• 59:24
  he done with you, and then it just what a manager he is. Wouldn't it be sort of strange if the wolves
• 59:34
  manager at the start of the season is now in charge of forest. No, no. Yeah, and they had the
• 59:40
  not only had the worst record up until December in the Premier League's ever seen, and he's put him
• 59:45
  in charge of forest. Now, no, no, who you had who gave you a great season may keep West Dumber.
• 59:51
  Your expense, that would be. He got them into your. They were playing, but then because he
• 59:58
  doesn't conform to what you say, or it may just leave the football. That's why people upstairs
• 1:00:03
  just leave it to the manager and leave the footballs of the footballers. You make the club
• 1:00:08
  a brilliant commercial commodity. That's your job as the chairman, the owner, whatever. Leave
• 1:00:13
  the commercial stuff to you. Leave the football to me. That's how football should be, and it's not
• 1:00:18
  now. It's going more and more. Everyone's dipping in and poking the toe in here. I'll do a bit of this.
• 1:00:23
  I'll do a bit of that. No, leave of manager to manage. Leave the people above to manage the
• 1:00:28
  commercial commodities of the club to make us more attractive to make us a bigger deal to make
• 1:00:32
  us more money. That's great. Just be able football. You want everything to be going brilliantly
• 1:00:39
  within your setup. You want the owners to be honest. You want the director. You want the
• 1:00:43
  monster to all of that, and we've had a tough couple of years, and I'm certainly not
• 1:00:50
  laughing at anybody or putting anybody down in terms of being laughter. It's great not to be,
• 1:00:55
  it's great not to be as our club telling you. It's great not to be down there and see
• 1:00:59
  another club's imploding or having a tough time not to say they're having a tough time, but
• 1:01:05
  just glad not to be involved. And we can actually sit back and watch what's the drama unfolded
• 1:01:09
  in the game. We're going to take play football manager with our club. I thought he was on
• 1:01:14
  football. He's on football managers unbelievable. And it's just extraordinarily ruined us.
• 1:01:20
  Now he killed us, but it's just that this is why you need football people in football.
• 1:01:25
  You look at now what's with the position of our clubs and what we've endured for the last
• 1:01:29
  10 years has just been chaos. Absolute chaos. The revolving door of managers being sacked out
• 1:01:35
  are given. I mean, I think at one say he spends a hundred million on sacked managers.
• 1:01:41
  And then, you know, everyone else is doing long. Let's just deduct 10 points of
• 1:01:45
  effort because it's evidence and that's what we do. And then it's just it goes on and on and on.
• 1:01:51
  But ultimately, you're now in a position where you see you're getting a good football manager
• 1:01:55
  in David Moist, where we can be. You're getting proper businessmen who know also run a football
• 1:02:00
  club in the fleeting group, I say the own role met, the own various organisations in America.
• 1:02:05
  These are a prop out run business and you know what to do when it comes to football,
• 1:02:10
  when it comes to business. Everyone now looks like they're doing a job and you look at
• 1:02:14
  everything that's been transformed in the last 18 months since the buying of the club.
• 1:02:18
  And where we're at now. That's what I chose when proper businessmen, proper people are giving
• 1:02:22
  the jobs to do. You've got a specific job doing this, doing it. You've got your job doing this,
• 1:02:28
  you do it. And just compliment each other along the way. And I feel like, you know,
• 1:02:32
  at other clubs, they're suffering from what we did. That man and I, this is nuts. He's nuts.
• 1:02:37
  I mean, it makes me laugh sometimes. It's great seeing a passionate chairman run on the
• 1:02:42
  pitch and start shouting, but you can't be happy with your manager. It's not great to watch for you
• 1:02:47
  with your part of that club. It's not an argument running on the pitch. It's wrong. You know,
• 1:02:51
  they're going and dressing them. You can't, sorry mate, you can't have that. A chairman can't
• 1:02:55
  be going into the dressing because it just gives the wrong, it gives the wrong thing. As you've
• 1:03:00
  been a player, you know, imagine the chair. I mean, and this need to come in every now and again,
• 1:03:03
  blue moon, but you knew the boss was chairman's and owners yet. Look, that's, that's what it is. It's
• 1:03:11
  about who, who the book stops with with you. Yeah. You, you should, players should always
• 1:03:16
  answer to the managers that should not be a feeling that it's all right because this manager,
• 1:03:21
  what we hear for that long because the owner of the chairman is coming on the pitch. So
• 1:03:26
  I don't even need to, I don't even need to work that hard for him anymore. Oh, it doesn't matter.
• 1:03:29
  Yeah. You know, yeah, as soon as that kind of feeling comes in, there will be players out there
• 1:03:35
  that will buy into it and will be okay with it. So they should always be separate for me.
• 1:03:40
  So you're saying if things stay the same, you think it's going to be spares down there?
• 1:03:46
  Oh, I can't believe what say I've said that, but then yeah, I'm going to have to stick with it.
• 1:03:49
  Just, I'm worried for them. I'm not seeing enough fight. We need to get a graphic
• 1:03:53
  up of the game's remaining and then I'll tell you what we've got to say at the season. We
• 1:03:56
  could send them down. So they play Brighton. We're not sending spares down. Wolves are way.
• 1:04:03
  They've got leads at home, Chelsea away and then they've got us at home. Yeah. Oh, you know,
• 1:04:09
  what we need, you know, I need to see leaders. For me, I think West Ham have got enough
• 1:04:14
  and they've got enough fighting. And by looking at recent results in game, watching them a
• 1:04:17
  little bit, I think there's enough about West Ham. I think it's between leads and spares.
• 1:04:24
  And they play each other? Yeah, that's what I didn't know they played each other. So yeah,
• 1:04:28
  it's definitely between them too. And if I'm going to put my neck on the line,
• 1:04:34
  I think it could be leads to Colton. How many points, how many points ahead of leads?
• 1:04:39
  I've already talked with many. A full three points. Yeah, gold differences in spares.
• 1:04:42
  Very breath think I'm where's the game at. It's right out. Yeah, I'm going to have to go with
• 1:04:53
  you can stick your neck out. I'm not that I'm going to have to go with something. Oh,
• 1:04:58
  it's changed. I'm going to stay up. Stay up. Stay up. You think leads at this moment of time,
• 1:05:03
  you think leads. I just the one shining light leads have got going for them. Believe it or not,
• 1:05:08
  has been done in a couple of years season. He's got goals. He's got important goals for them at
• 1:05:12
  times. And I think he's been a bright light for them at times, but I just think if it comes down
• 1:05:19
  to that game, I think Tottenham, I've got more than one leads have. Watch this space.
• 1:05:24
  Well, and that stayed and that stayed him can't go on the championship, by the way.
• 1:05:29
  Well, it's certainly going to be an interest in running for the end of the Premier League season.
• 1:05:33
  Thank you very much for watching the first episode of Outside the Box. Please follow and
• 1:05:37
  subscribe. And if there's somebody you think will enjoy the conversation, make sure you share
• 1:05:40
  with them. For me, Leon and Tony, ahead of the meds side, Derby.