Latest / Pod Therapy / #387: Less Judgmental, Anger and Resentment, Dating a Person in Recovery

Transcript

#387: Less Judgmental, Anger and Resentment, Dating a Person in Recovery · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Do you think the thunderbirds would get more respect if
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: we shot at them?
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, dodging bullets?
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: Hear me out, you keep killing, but it might be treason.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: The nerve starts.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: It's from Fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. This is pod therapy,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Real people, real problems, and real therapists. You can submit
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: your questions anonymously at pod therapy dot net or email
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: us at pod therapy guys at gmail dot com. Broadcasting
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: from the churn, that's Jim, that's Whitney on Nick signed
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: for some pod therapy.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Welcome to June.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Hey, by the way, yes, your birthday is December first,
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: it is. We're recording on June first. We are officially
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: at the halfway mark.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Oh is that?
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Would you be having a birthday party right now?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: No, I'm saying the forty to forty Yeah, we started
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the AI.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: My next question, but Jim just the documentary ad? Yeah,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: was can AI get jimmed motivated to finish his structure
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: out his forty.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: For years? Yet there near that?
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we are officially halfway through. Is there a single
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: thing we can cross off? This line?
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: One the other day that I thought I did, but
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: then I don't remember the whole list.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have the list, let me get me.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: No, I don't want to go over all forty of them.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: There was there was one the other day that I
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: was like, oh, I did one, and and I was like,
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: I'm going to tell Nick about it, and then I forgot.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: But then again, now that I'm thinking about it, the
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: vibe I remember feeling was I could do this, not
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Do that, ridden in a hot air balloon?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:41
  Speaker 4: Fuck?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: Is that really on the list?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Will ship?
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: I chickened out of that too.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: That with Ai.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: How close are you to doing a pull up? Oh? No,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: have you attempted? No? Have you thought? Whatever?
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: The distance between the floor and yeah, isn't that he
• 1:58
  Speaker 5: was about six and a half feet.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Then that Whitney has out a full ass twenty five
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: yearly planner. She has to spread her arms as far
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: as they can reach to get this thing. You've done
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: a moment ago.
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: Rewind your rewind your podcast player to a moment ago
• 2:14
  Speaker 5: when Whitney said, hold.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: On, I'll get the list.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is the list.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: That is the time that it took her to unfold it.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: We're working on something. Yeah, look, there's one boxes out
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: of January first to.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Now Okay, Okay.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Jim, Jimmothy, I got lots of time. Okay. So Peter
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: and I have this ongoing joke from our friend with ADHD,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: and we're talking with him. He was like, oh, I'm
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: getting ready for whatever, and he'll just be like, I
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: got plenty of time.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: It's never.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: It's never plenty's time. That's all I hear when said
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I got plenty of time.
• 2:53
  Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, my wife was booking a vacation for
• 2:56
  Speaker 5: us today and booked a long, a very long, multiple
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: connections flight the day before she has to fly somewhere
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: else for another gig.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, it's your gig.
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but like if everything goes perfectly, you're going to
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: be exhausted. Yeah, you're coming back from a vacation and
• 3:14
  Speaker 5: you're leaving like ten hours later to fly somewhere else
• 3:18
  Speaker 5: to go on a gig.
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: This is your like best case scenario. That sucks.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: Wow, worst case scenario.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: You just missed the gig entirely.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's uh, but you know I'm on team wait
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: till the last minute. I think that's when inspiration strikes. Oh,
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: I just remember the thing I've gotten one thing off
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: the list.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: For sure. He shot someone. I did kill that guy.
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: Dude is dead.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: I did fire gun at dolphins. Was firing a gun.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, it was firing a gun was on there.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: And I had a chance to I went to that range.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: Damn it. What you have a chance?
• 3:54
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: Fuck didn't me.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You are not very good at this.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: I really need to like walk around with that list.
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: I just set reminders. Well, where the fuck is AI
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: on this?
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: I stant to just give Ai the list and then
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: it should remind me, like, oh, Jim, by the way,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: you're at a range right now, you can knock one
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: off the list.
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: We've reminded you. You've been getting reminded.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Has not helped, you know what. This is only a
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: weekly reminder. I need something more.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: No, And that's culturally insensitive. You really shouldn't say that.
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: I got very it is. Goodbye, everybody. I got my
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: first intern, so I officially have my first therapy apprentice
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: was legally assigned to me. The whole rigamarole. So I've
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: got one out of forty. So I've got thirty nine
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: more to go. Welcome to June, everybody. Oh hold on,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: I gotta get that hello, and no I am.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: I am mister doctor Jim's a printice therapist.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: Get back in the closet. I told you don't come outside.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I'm so scared.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: You stay in there until you can come out. This
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: is part of your training.
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Now you don't eat.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: You live on the dew of flowers for forty days,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: like all of us did in our therapy training.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: Fifty days.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Take my first apprentice.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Is it's on there, It's on there, it is. I'll
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: give you that anyway. Welcome to June, you.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Know when right on the calendar.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this last week. This last week she got
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: her official therapy intern license. So it's exciting stuff. We
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: are officially in June, which means you no longer have
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: to be aware of mental health. You can just be
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: done with that shit that was May. I'm done with as.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: It also means that we have named a pony. Uh.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: The the votes have been cast, the results are in.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Now that we're done with feed the pony. Yeah, is
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: she just going to stop feeding the pony?
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: I think so. Yeah.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I think that was part of the ponies are gonna die.
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: So that's why it doesn't matter what it didn't matter
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: these ponies.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm going to read all of the nominees
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: in order from the last time to first a mood
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: like just keep drinking that whiskey.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: It'll get better.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Last place was Blue glue Shoe, a solid solid last
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: place finished right there. That one got one percent of
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: the vote. Epstein Didn't Kill Himself placed higher than that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Epstein Didn't Kill Himself did not officially get a nomination,
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: had been in the pool of suggestions but was not represented.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: You needed a delegate. The super delegates did not get
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: that one through. In second to last place with five
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: percent of the vote, Freddy five Legs I thought a
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: respectable five percent at eight percent of the vote, Heyse
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: I thought was Cue very solid. Tied at nine percent
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: was Gluey, which I thought was a good one, and
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Slurpey's Horse do not Touch?
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: Also can you do like Slurpe's horse do not touch?
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: It was Clever the finalists with twenty two percent. This
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: is second place. The runner up breaks my heart because
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: this is this. I think this was where I was
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: at fuck and I voted for this too. Did not
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: tip the scales and a lobbied heart vote because I
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: have a Patreon account I fucking voted because I wanted
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: this one. I didn't get it of the vote. This
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: is the second place George Bush hates black horses. Fuck,
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I wanted that where my heart was at.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, silver Lining still available as a baby name.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, MANU get on it. Okay, just call him George
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: for short. But we'll all know what the full Christian
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: may be the winner with forty four percent of the vote.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: Pony soprano, a solid, solidrano, solid horse, solid horse.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: So now we've got Tonka truck, Tonka truck, the pony
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: and pony Soprano like it the official horses.
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: So relieved.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I feel like down just looking at
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: our listeners, like god, damn it, Like we had a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: chance here. We could have called him George. It would
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: have been fine.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: He would have gotten away with George, but we all
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: would have known the truth. Yeah, I mean yeah, until
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: you take him to the vet.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, into any kind of competition.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: I'm sure we could have the documentation amended. But thank
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: you to everybody who voted. It was a very well
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: attended poll, and for the many people who joined us
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: in May and started doing annual membership as well, just
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: to kind of show that support year round. We really
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: appreciate it. And lots of people fed the horses and
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: we post did lots of videos on our Instagram. They
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: are lots of fun and they you know what, I'm
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: gonna leave it up there for a while. I'll take
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: it down eventually, but Emma's just going to keep feeding
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: the horses. So why not videotape this right? So, yeah,
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: we've basically just got a horse feeding only fans. Now
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: it's fifteen bucks and you can pick the treats.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: You get to give a little shout out to the horse.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: So get up there before I take it down. It's
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: still up there for now. Leave it up there for
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: a little while until Emma tells me I have to
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: take it down.
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: Emma, I want the horse to be fed with like
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: crackers or cookies or whatever whatever horses eat, but I
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: want them decorated by one of those erotic bakery shops.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: Oh yes, so you're just feeding the horses like big
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: gifts and dicks and boobs asses, but healthyhole cookies. They're
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: all yeah, very very nutrition, and the.
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Horse isn't going to care.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, if anything, they'll enjoy it.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, going to care.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll see people like it more.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you to everybody who has been so supportive
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: of us and helping us augment the message and amplify it.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: It is been great. So we are stepping into June,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: which means we're gonna be thinking all of our supporters
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: here at the end of the show, but excited to
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: have you with us. We've got a lot of new
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: people that have stepped into the Patreon circle and grateful
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: to have you as part of the group and enjoying
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: your presence in the discord and enjoying your live commentary
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: and chat on our weekly episodes and on all the
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Monday content. So thank you everybody's been supporting the show.
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: We've got some great questions for today's episode, and we're
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: leading off the order with a question about being less judgmental.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Hello pod therapist. I've been meaning to write back to
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: y'all for a while, but I just keep procrastinating. So
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: my apologies for taking so long to get this update
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: to you. I figured Mental Health Awareness Month would be
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: a good time, and I still didn't quite meet that
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: deadline enough. Yeah, you almost got there. Hopefully this job's
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: your memory, but I've written in the past, I was
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: the guy who didn't pull over so his dad could
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: buy cigarettes. Oh yeah, and then I was struggling with
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: whether I should attend Thanksgiving after the resulting blow up
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: of emotion with dad. Thanks so much for getting your
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: answer back to me so quickly. I really appreciated all
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: your insight. I did end up going to the gathering
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: and all went well, and we are fortunately all on
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: good terms to this day. Great step.
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: So you didn't take a yeah, yeah, I think that
• 11:16
  Speaker 5: wasn't I think part of the advice was go to
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: the gathering, but make sure to bring cigarettes.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: I think that was that was unfiltered. However, there's a
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: bit more to the story. Part of the reason I
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: didn't want to go back then was because a certain
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: other family member would be there that I really don't
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: enjoy being around. So I had to come to grips
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: with that as well. Not only was I going down
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: a path of forgiveness for my father, but also I
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: was trying to figure out how to be around this
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: other person. This is something that I've struggled with pretty
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: much my whole life. It's not to the point where
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: I'm a complete asshole at least not outwardly, but sometimes
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: I tend to be unkind if a person gets on
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: my nerves, even when going about my day, I'll make
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: snap judgments about a random person based solely on their appearance,
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: or end up thinking negative thoughts about them, even though
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: I really don't know anything about them. As I was
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: trying to learn to be less judgmental back in November,
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: something I read online was that those who are judging
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: others tend to be the most critical of themselves. So
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: I did look inward and tried to be more conscious
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: of accepting myself. I think this has helped quite a bit,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: and certainly gave me the courage to go to Thanksgiving
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: back then. I'm also a lot more confident, so yay.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Yet I still find myself slipping into judgments and sometimes
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: being blunt with people when I could be a bit
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: more kind. So my question today is, which I suppose
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: is twofold. Do you guys struggle with this as well,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: making snap judgments? And if you do, how do you
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: deal with it? If you don't, well, good for you,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: I guess.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: And secondly, if the judgment is unwarranted, like if you
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: know that person is just awful, but you have to
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: be around them anyways due to whatever circumstance. How do
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: you navigate that situation? I guess to put it simply,
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: I'd like to stop making snap judgments about others and
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: be more kind and compassionate. So how do you go
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: about doing that? What are your tips and tricks? Also?
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: I did finally take advantage of my eap at work
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: and have asked a therapist about this on a more
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: personal level, But of course I'd still like to get
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: your thoughts as well. Thanks for all you do. You
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: are doing very meaningful work and I look forward to
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: listening each week. Sincerely, a reservoire of pillows.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: PS.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: I just watched Goodwill Hunting for the first I'm clapping.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, good masterful. I just watched Goodwill Hunting for
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: the first time. While I was watching, I couldn't help
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: but wonder what the hosts of Pop Therapy think of
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Robin Williams's portrayal in the movie. I've enjoyed hearing your
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: opinions on therapists and the media in the past, so
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: I thought i'd ask and see if you care to
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: share your thoughts on that one. Anyway, take care of
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: reserv wire of pillows?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Which question would we want to tackle?
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: What about Bob?
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: That was such a good movie, So okay, judgmental, yes,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: but I've got it, especially while driving, you know, Like
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: that's the thing where like yeah, because like you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: I'm very tolerant of people. When when we worked at
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the rehab, like, I was very well respected from our
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: patients who noticed that I just had like I was
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: very tolerant, and like so many of them would get
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: upset and angry with each other and they would just
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: be and they were just like, how do you how
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: do you deal with because I'm losing my fucking ship.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Don't give two ships about it.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Was, oh my god, if you turn into a different
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: lane and you don't use your turn sign, you.
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: Piece of ship?
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: What if you got good for you?
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah it doesn't have a gun.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know what.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: I thought about you. Last week when I was at
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: a grocery store and I watched this lady when I parked,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: she put her cart so she was like two spots
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: over to my right and the cart wrap was two
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: spots over to my left, and she just puts her
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: cart right against like near the tree I was like
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: there's one spot between.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: You can just do it. Okay. So here's what I learned.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Excuse me. It's kind of funny because we were just
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: every weekend, Laura and I will go and get coffee someplace.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: That's kind of our weekend thing. Okay, right, So we
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: drove out. We went further outside the neighborhood this time,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: went down to the southwest. Found this new coffee place.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Went down there and had coffee. It was small, green
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and white, and the signage was a mermaid.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Big old door.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, had some nautical theme. Yeah yeah. But there was
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: two couples in there, and they each they knew each other,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: like they they met there, just spent some time together.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And they each had a baby, a child. And I'm
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: not good with kids, so I'm gonna say somewhere between
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: the ages of.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: They won.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know what age they can stand up's like
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: fifteen or yeah, pre standing? Yeah no, no, no, they could stand, Okay,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: they could stand, they could walk around.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: It still seemed like a baby.
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: They could form simple sentences okay, yeah, okay, late whatever
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: that is late toddler is yeah, okay. But anyway, like
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the parents were talking doing their thing, kids are running
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: around and they go they they must this is a
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: regular thing because they know the owner of the cafe,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: they know everybody that works there, you know, and the
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: kids know the cafe, like so it's like it's their
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: little We were definitely in their house, yeah, right, type thing,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: but they had full rain of the situation, okay, And
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: like I was just kind of watching more or less,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: but I could tell Laura was starting to get a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: little frustrated and like a little anxious around the chaos
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: that was ensuing. So anyway, when we left, we kind
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: of started talking about it, and I was just like
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I kind of realized, like, the thing that's really fascinating
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: to me from like a psychological perspective is to just
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: kind of watch the child, which you have to.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: Be careful with in public.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Because saying your phone the whole time, like being like, hey, no,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I'm a psychologist, I'm interested. It doesn't work, doesn't work,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: no advice, okay, it doesn't help.
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: But the thing that was really interesting is to kind
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: of watch.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Because nikon five thousand snap and shots, because the kids
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: can't verbally express themselves.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: They can't kids learning, you see, they can't, they can't.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: They can't talk, but like but like so like one
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: kid dropped their toy and it was like it was
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: a little plastic space shuttle. Okay, I dropped it on
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the ground, concrete floor, and then the other kid like
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: saw that and had his stuffed animal and then dropped
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: it intentionally dropped.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: It, okay.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: And so like you can't you don't know what. You
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: can just watch and you can see like what they're thinking, like, yeah,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: he's exploring the world.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: Like monkeys at a zoo. You're just looking through the
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: glass look at because it's just.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Like because I can see, like I can see what's
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: going on in his head. He's like he dropped shut up,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: he dropped this way half and it made it made
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: this sound. Yes, I dropped my toy and it makes
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: a different sounds. Right. I'm on your side, buddy. I
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: want you to know. I'm swimming with.
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: Getting lost animals. That's fantastic. They are fucking animals.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: I am with you.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: This is super stuff, super smart stuff, swimming up. This
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: is really spot off.
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can round around to your point though anyway,
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: you like the behavioral psych yes.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: So like just like so you get to like instead
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: of yelling at the kid like hey you dropped your toy,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: or hey you did this. It's kind of like no,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: like they're learning, they're they're experimenting, they're learning about their environments,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and like, oh, when he drops his toy, it makes
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: this sound, but when I dropped mine, it makes this
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: sound that's different, you know. And then so I then
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that kind of got me thinking about, like, you know,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: how I was raised, and like I think I've talked
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: about this in the show, but like the word thing
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: that you could be as a child is in the way.
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: Dropping a toy in this store.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Like you know, it's just like it's just like you're
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: in the way, You're in the way, Get o the way,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: get o the way, and you're you're constantly told you're
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: in the way. You need to get out of the way, move,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you know. And after you get raised into that environment
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: so much and you kind of grow up, then now
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: even as adult, like I'm I'm so worried about being
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: in someone's way that now I go out of my way.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I inconvenience myself to make sure I'm not in somebody
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: else's way. And then that causes me a whole bunch
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: of anxiety because like I know how to go through
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: tsa quick efficiently, yeah, the car to not be in
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: someone's way. So when other people don't do that, I
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: don't think like, oh well, I'm super prepared. I think
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: what the fuck is wrong with you?
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: What's wrong with you?
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Why are you so stupid that you don't understand how
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: this works? This is not your first time on a
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: fucking airplane? Right right? And so it becomes like you
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: there is this judgmental thing that kind of comes into
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: place because of kind of how we were raised, our
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: expectation that everyone else should fit in that same kind
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: of way of thinking.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: Have you had to confront that throughout life, because clearly
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: you've connected the dots, You've done some internal work, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: you've you've looked at it and said, hey, my reaction
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: to people's may be wrong sized. Yeah, And I think
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: it has more to do with how uncomfortable I am
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: if the roles were reversed, and then I'm kind of
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: putting that energy onto them of like, hey, this is
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: careless of you, and you should be bothered, you should
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: feel shame about what you're doing, because I would feel terrible,
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: and you're doing this too the rest of us.
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: I would feel so much shame. That's what I would feel, That's.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: What Jacob would feel. So you've done some work on this.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: How do you like when when you get that itch
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: whenever you see something that kind of like cries out
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: in that way and you're like fuck, like I hate this.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Do you catch yourself now and like wind it back a.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Few But the non judgmental thing is a lot harder
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: to do, Okay, Like I've had a lot more success
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: working on myself and realizing like, Okay, no, I don't
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: have anything that I need to apologize for. This is
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: a public space. I have as much right to be
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: here as anybody else.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: Okay, I have a right to stare at your child.
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah in public, don't I said, good day, don't worry
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: about wear my hands Jesus No.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: But like it, like I said, I know he's getting
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: the bad influence. Okay, Yeah, around your we were fine.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: We were fine on this show before you came up.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: We had a clean program. Nobody listened to.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: That's all.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I've definitely made a lot more progress in that sense,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Like I catch myself being judgmental, that's a lot harder.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: So I kind of have to just be like Okay,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know their story, I don't know what's going on,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and I just got to focus back on on my shit.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I like that this self reference. It's interesting because
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are always wondering if
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: we as therapists are thinking judgmental thoughts. But I think
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: the training kicks in and like even people that you
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: might be annoyed with in the real world if you
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: were just sitting next to them on a plane, when
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: they're in the chair across from you, when you're here
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: to help them, you're so curious, right, and like you're
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: analyzing so much and you're trying to like really develop
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: that empathy and that connection. I'm sure we all have
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: had cases that are yeah, irritating or something about this
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: person and some of the behaviors they've done that. We
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: all have breaking points, Like you know, I can't work
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: with adults who have harmed children, Like it's just it's
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: out of my scope. I'm not gonna be good at it.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: It'll mess with me and not gonna work. So, like,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: you know, we all have breaking points that we just realized, Hey,
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: that's not a demographic I would do well with. But
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: like I think for the most part. People that enter
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: the profession, they do that internal work, like you definitely
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: have to catch your blind spots. Do you find that
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: even if that group of people that kind of behavior
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: annoys you in the real world old, when you're in
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: the professional work, do you find that you're actually a
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: little bit more resilient because you're just using a different
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: part of your brain.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean well, and also I'm less impacted. Yeah, exactly,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Like if I'm doing Yeah, I mean, if I'm doing
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: if I'm doing clinical work, which I haven't done in years,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: but when I was like, okay, well I'm I'm helping somebody,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and then when this session's over, it's done, right, Like
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I get to exit out of this right, as opposed
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to if I'm trying to get through t s A right,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not exiting out of this like I'm fucking stuck
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: here because you're a fucking idiot.
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because you're bad at Yeah, tell.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Me, tell me why this is wrong. I see no problem.
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: With being judgmental, Okay, just like you don't stop. We're
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: always judging, like we're always drawing conclusions.
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: So what's the problem to me?
• 24:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, you don't want to like draw a conclusion
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: and then lock it down to me.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: The thing that that I think the line is. I
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: think it's I don't think there's anything wrong with being
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: judgmental or reaching conclusions about other people. I think when
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: you're starting to carry it around, like that's becoming like
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: you're gritting your teeth, you know, Like that's where I
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: think it starts to get like, yeah, the writer says,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: like I've said shit, like I've I've had outbursts, I'm embarrassed.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: I feel like I could have done better.
• 25:21
  Speaker 5: But I think that's more of an issue with a reaction, yes,
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: and and kind of like a enemy, that's that's your
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: own action there, right, and like yeah, let's work on
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: controlling that, and let's work on helping with that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: But like just the judgmental portion itself. Sure, So what
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: probably like a nine? So I got opinions on people.
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: Some of them are good, some of them bad.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Like whatever you everybody hears somebody say something in politics
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: that they don't like, or somebody at the kitchen table
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: is and maybe you're internally bothered by that. You found
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: it ignorant, you're offended, but you didn't flip the table
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: and yell at them or break the relationship right, and
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: so like I can appreciate that, Yeah, sure you're there's
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: nothing wrong with your stand I got it, and tell yourself, like, boy,
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: do I find that bad. I don't love this opinion
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: of Uncle Frank at all, but treating Uncle Frank a
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: certain kind of way is the part where we got
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: to build that muscle. And I kind of think that's
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: what the writer's sort of referring to is like I
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: get in my head about this and then I have
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: this snap reaction where like I don't like how I'm
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: treating people right, and I need to figure out how
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: to like cut that fuse. And I kind of hear
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: you Nick kind of reflecting on it and saying one
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: thing that you did for yourself is to really ask
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: questions about why this is bothering me and go deeper
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: when you notice the theme of like, yeah, what irritates
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: me because I'm celebrated in other circles of being the
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: guy who's unshakable, but then some things really do.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and doesn't always work because like sometimes you know,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: like they I think it was Carl Jung that said,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: like anything that irritates us about other people brings us
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to a greater or better realization of ourselves, Neil young
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: or better?
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, harvest yeah yeah, well they both sang.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: But I sometimes that helpful. Other times it just reinforces things.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, does bother me?
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: I know?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: And I'm right too, you know it doesn't doesn't doesn't
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: always work, Whitney, who do you secretly judge? Who's you
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: is like your trigger out there in the world? Clearly
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: the three of us. I mean, yes, tolerance is a
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: pretty impressive I.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Want to know my answers. No, I don't feel like
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: sharing that specifically.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: We got her, We found Whitney's breaking point, boys, pedophile
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: jokes on the table, ask her what annoys her and
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: other people full stop pulls the break.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: But what I do think, I don't know. I think
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to share my thoughts on kind of what
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: you're sharing, Nick, because I think I see it a
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: different way. But told me if I'm wrong. I see
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: it as like the things that I feel judgmental towards
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: other towards others about is usually because I'm I am
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: judgmental on myself about But when I when I investigate
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: that internally, I don't know I think it softens it
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: because then I realize it is about me, and then
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I'm like, they're just living their lives, right, Who fucking
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: cares if they're slow or incompetent or whatever, like whatever
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: the thing is. I don't know. I guess it does
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: take the focus off, So I don't know when you
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: shure it then like, well, yeah, I'm fucking right. It's
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: like I don't really end up at that conclusion. I
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: end up more at like, why am I judging myself
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: on this thing that is irritating me about others? I
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: don't know. That's kind of like, yeahind.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: To get it. I think it kind of Again, I
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: guess when it goes when it kind of comes back
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: to like the TSA thing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, why do you care if you're slow?
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: What if you take forever? Who fucking cares? What's the
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: why if you're not the most efficient, are you going
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to be late for your flight? Or like if none
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: of that happens, and who cares?
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: In what sense? Like are you talking about me saying
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that from my perspective?
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for yourself, like if you are in the way,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: if you are blocking other people not being like ready.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, So here's the thing. I've made it a point
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: to never be in the way of other people, Like
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that's the thing.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: And so like by somebody being in your way, almost.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Yes, because because I'm thinking, like, why don't you get this,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I would work to be out of your way.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Why aren't you paying me that same courtesy?
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so it kind of it because it because yeah,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: it kind of makes me feel like if we all
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: were prepared for this, like I'm prepared for this, we'd
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: be in and out like this is a snap. It
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: literally if there's so when I get to the airport,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: because I do take a lot of early flights, you
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: know where I'm getting there at like four thirty five
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. When I get there and there's
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: no one there, I literally set my bag on the belt,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: walk right through, grab my bag. It's that fast, yeah,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: because everything that I couldn't take through the metal detector
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: is already in the bag. You're ready, yeah, you know,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: And so it's like it's just it's that quick. And
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: so like I just don't understand white people are like
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: they set their bag in there and then they try
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: to walk through and it's like it's going off. Yeah,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: I got my keys in my pocket. Okay, I'll take
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: that off. I'm gonna go through it again. Oh well,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: oh my cell phone too, I gotta take that. Okay,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I gotta get It's like, okay, this is tsa pre check.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: The fucker look at it like you fucking know that.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Don't hide this is not Yeah, they would love you
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: to look them up. Like so like, yes, I I
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: get that, Like like the preparedness and not being in
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: someone's way is my own neurosis. Yeah, like I totally
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: get that. But then it's hard for me to still
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: be like okay, but there's still no excuse for this
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: other behavior, like I'm fifty responsible for this.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I can't wait. So you're saying there's no excuse for
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: them having that behavior. Okay. So when the writer asked
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: about tips and tricks, that kind of leads into my
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: my tipper trick. My go to is always I will
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: create a story for that person.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Oh okay every time, Yeah, you'll write, you'll write like
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: a story of like, oh yeah, they're from Europe, they
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I have had to experiences in the last at least
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: a year or two where someone next to me did
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: not know how to buckle their seatbelt on a that.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Just happened, and I was like, what.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I had to help them.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: They're like, oh, thank you, last time coming from Reno.
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: Just touch them.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think people are just faking this.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Next to your waiting, they're like, oh my god, can
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: you put your hands on my lap? I just can't
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: seem to get it my pants room.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: But just these wors.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Get me to touch.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: She was horn dog.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: But I will always someone cuts me off on traffic.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: In traffic, yes, there's an initial judgment. There's always an
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: initial judgment. Uh no, not really. Maybe if it's something
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: very dangerous that could have harmed one. I'm like, I'm
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: gonna make you feel uncomfortable, but that's because you need
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: to feel uncomfortable if you're gonna put my life cut across.
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: If they cut me off, my rule is I will
• 32:12
  Speaker 5: honk at them until they are out of my way.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Yeahs on the continual, it just holds it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Jacob of just.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: This is my I will sit on the horn.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: The only guy who's ever had horn replacements due to
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: this is the horn of a sixty year old.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, anything like that, A.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: Cough at this, please get out of the way please.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I create a story. Somebody's like flying past me.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Hold on waiting, I gotta get the door. Hello, yes, no, no,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: you get your ass back in there. I told you no,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: back in there. Slam the door, Whinnie.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. I'm embarrassed.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: She's rude.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: I'm humiliated. She'll learn her place, she will learn. That's
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: a few days what I'm doing.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Kick her back in the Harry Potter closet in the way, Yeah, yeah,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: stay in there.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: Damn, you're offending nick. So everybody, I'm humiliated. I'm just
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: I'm horrified. And we will work on this.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: We're going to get better.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, we're going to get better.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, if I don't know them, if I'm at
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: T S A or whatever and their port, my first
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: thought is I make up a story. Okay they don't know.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Then my next thought is why is this bothering me?
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: If it's because they should have been efficient and they're not,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: I was the most efficient, my next thought is who cares?
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Am I still going to make my flight on time?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Then I'll just sit here. I'm like, all right, it
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: is what it is like that kind of overflow of acceptance,
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: like all right, this person's just going to take a while.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: I kind of make up stories a little bit, like especially, but.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: That person hates me.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: Their life will end.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: If if a Dodge Ram pick up it's a way behind,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: real close and then weaves around and cuts in front.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Thing enough in my mind, and even I've even said
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: this out loud, I'm just and I say, like he's
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: just in a hurry to get home and kiss his.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Dad in the lips, like I got him. I like
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: your so like that last trick that you mentioned, Whitney.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: I think that's that's my go to. And one of
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: the reasons I don't carry around the things that are
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: irritating me or the judgments I'm having of others is
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: like the same feeling I have about advertising. I fucking
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: hate ads. I hate it and like I, I what is.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I'm watching for you?
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: And have sense that well, especially yes and like on
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Hulu and Ship where I pay for it, but I'm
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: still in the y and like the same ship on
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Amazon Prime, like you know, okay, you get that channel
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: or whatever, but now there's ads and it's like fuck
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: you guys.
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: Like a good time to mention Patreon dot com slash
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: on this show.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: We hate ads, So like when I see ads coming, I,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: out of principle, I have this need to I will
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: climb across the couch, get the controller and mute this.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Fuck Laura does that, I will make myself inconvenience to
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: go get the controller, and I will not look at
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: the TV. Like out of principle. If I'm watching a
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: YouTube video on my phone and then I'll put my
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: phone down and like if it's unskippable, fuck you, I'm
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: not even gonna hear it.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: The same same thing happens when Laura and I are
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: watching TV and an ad comes on, because like for me,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: it's just like it's an advertisement. Yeah, and I just
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: listened to Laura. I don't care. Laura will sit there
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: and she'll just go on with her get angry and
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: she on my Finally she was like, god, damn it,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: she reaches a gas will reach over me. Yes.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: If I'm watching like I've been watching a lot of
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Adventure Brothers on Adult Swim, there's commercials every goddamn minute,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: and as soon as it comes on, I mute it.
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: I pull out my phone and I start scrolling and
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: just checking the news or whatever. Because resistent so like
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I don't like ads being thrown at me and I
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: don't like having to like carry it with me. So like,
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: especially if there's an advertisement that I glimpse and I'm like, oh,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: that's interesting, I won't click it out of spite because
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I don't want the cookie so that it knows that
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: the ad worked, because then it's gonna hit me with
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: more ads. This circles back around to your theory and
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: like this idea of like coding yourself in teflon and
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: sort of like, I don't want my irritation with that
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: person that I'm seeing out in the world to stick
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: to me, and I don't if I react to it,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: if I engage with it. If there's a family member
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: that offends me and I react as the writer reacts
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: and I say something to them and I give them
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: that little jab, I am gonna get another advertisement.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: If they said something weird and they're like, let's go
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: Brandon or whatever, and I'm like, all right, if I
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: engage with that, I'm gonna have to hear more of it.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: The topic's going to go longer, I'm gonna get more ads.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: I want to get back to the show. I just
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: want to get back to this fool party that we're
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: hanging out with. Just enjoy my beer, Like that's what
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: I want to get back to. So for me, even
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: when I feel those spikes of judgment in the scenario
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: that I'm facing or this person that I'm engaging with
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: that I might find distasteful, I don't want to click
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: on the ad because to me it's clickbait offense. Like
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: I don't want to touch it because then more is
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: gonna come. And so like for me, it's this furious
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: muting and looking away, and that's my revenge on the
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: thing that's annoying me. Like offering silence and no attention,
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: starving it of every possible reaction, feels like vindication to me.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: And it's like my little ha, you didn't get me,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: you fuck And like I walk away and I'm like,
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you wasted your money. Amazon, I'm glad you
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: wasted your money on this fucking McDonald's commercial or whatever, because.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: It takes it to a level I don't go to
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: that point just like fuck off.
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're mine.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: Gets pretty deep.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: You're you're you're The effectiveness of your technique is about
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: as effectiveness as my driving technique where I'll f flip
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: them off but below the dash.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's fine, that's fine, but you know what,
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: we're not getting arrested. Thoughts on good Will hunting. I
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: love Robin Williams. I think it's a case study and
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: a great therapist.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, yeah, it's a great because yeah, I
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: mean because he does the thing where, uh, you know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: like what's Matt Damon's character, will research all of these
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: therapists in advance, you know, yeah, to just shock him up.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: But then when he gets to him, because he's really
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: just yeah Ragerian strengths based no real no trick theory,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: no trick or anything.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: So he just fox to them about his dead wife,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: you know. And then yeah, Robin Williams fucking tries to
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: kill him. But that was authentic and that and that
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: ultimately earned like reaction, like.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: Kind of support.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Hasn't tried to kill him? Come on?
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly if he's being a douche, he's as it coming.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: But no, I thought, and like ultimately use self disclosure.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: Robin Williams meets him in the parkins is, I haven't
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: thought about you since because you're just a kid. You
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: don't know what the Sistine Chapel fucking smells like, and
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: just like walks away.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: But since yeah, every.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: Oh shit, well that's only that's the first stact. You'll
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: be fine. You'll be fine anyway.
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: Writer.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: Glad to hear you reconciled with your father. Love your
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: support of our show. Thank you for these questions, and
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: love that you found that eap therapist. Love that you're
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: doing the work, man, because each of us has had
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: to do that work. That's how we get over stuff
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: like this and we find our own you know, unique tips,
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: so awesome stuff that you're doing there. Thank you for this.
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: we are answering a question about languishing and anger and resentment.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: You're listening to pod therapy.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Smithy, Scoot, Mason, Miller,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Test Miller, Biler, t Paris, te Monico, Oscar Swanros Hannah, Marie,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Emma Kine and Myra. And if you like sponsor the show,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: you can become a therap producer and Patreon dot com
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: slash therapy. All right, we got Father's Day coming.
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: Up, right, I guess we do.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: In June somewhere we.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Got each other's fathers.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, how many times.
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: We're gonna skip that one?
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: That one so famous fathers. We're looking for a number,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: so I'll start with actually, let's start with Jacob, so
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: we'll just go clockwise.
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: Final answer.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, you need you need a number. Okay, if you
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: get the number right on the dot, I'll give you
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: five points. If you get it within two one on
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: either direction, I'll give you one point. If you get neither,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: then it goes to the next one and you guess
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: high or low, and I'll give you a point. We're
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: talking how many children each of these individuals?
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: Fuck nine? Starting with oh you want to okay, you
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: want to just go right there or you want to hear?
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: How many points do I get if I get it
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: for none?
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: All because a lot of work, dude, answer the.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Question, Steven Spielberg, Oh got it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: I thought it was gonna be like Genghis Khan.
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: Right, four?
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, No, and you are not within the range. It's
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: only up one or up down one? Right you get
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: you get plus minus one? Yeah, okay, so higher low,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: so we know think he was higher and five is not.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: You're not within the range. Then it's not going to
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: be more.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: Well, it could be more than could be zero one
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: or two? Yeah, yeah, okay, or it could be more
• 41:38
  Speaker 4: than that.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Okay, So I have just a guess higher low?
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Do you think? Do you think the number is higher
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: or lower than Jacob's lower? No, you're wrong?
• 41:47
  Speaker 6: Wow?
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: How many?
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Seven?
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Seven?
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Seven?
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of kiddos? Is that one for every movie?
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: How many he's had? Like five? Indiana Jones? Yeah, all right,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Whitney yeah, stellin Scars Guard?
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, oh my gosh, I was just looking at I
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: was just discovering the other day how many kids exist
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: from them? And I don't even know it is something
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: like seven.
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: It's Can you remind me why this person's famous?
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Okay?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: He was?
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: He was uh, what the fun was his name? He
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: was in Thor. He was the doctor that worked with
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Natalie Portman.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: He was also one of the sorry, one of the kids,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: one of.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: The kids played it played, uh, played penny Wise, the
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: new penny Wise.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, Jacob's pulling up his face.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: That guy stellin Scar's Guard?
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: Can you oh that guy?
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: I think it seems like Hans seven six or seven.
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: Nine, you're within what.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Very good?
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: I know it's a lot of was Like, Holy.
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: Jim, please don't be Nick Cannon, wait a minute, that
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: we know of it? Does that don't count all the
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: future babies that he's probably got in fucking cryo sleep.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Not AI babies.
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Jesus, it's big babies come true. Let's go with twelve.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: No, not not up or down? Okay, and not not
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: within the range. So that goes to Jacob for a point.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: I want higher.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: That's a point for ten. Yeah, double digits.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I did not know that he guys repopulating.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, all right, that's.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: It for the So we are Whitney's in the lead, okay,
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: with Jacob and one zero? All right, linguishing and anger
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: and resentment. I'll try to keep this as short as possible.
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: We'll still give enough context and details. A few years ago,
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: I met a new friend through a shared interest. We
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: hit it off quick and fast. I'd never connected with
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: another person so intensely on a platonic level. It was
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: the first time in adulthood that I'd had a legitimate
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: best friend besides my spouse and other family and friends.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: My friend and I did everything together we'd hang out
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: multiple times a week, do a shared hobby together in
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: text all the time. It was deeply intimate, but entirely platonic,
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: an emotionally connected friendship. This person just got me, and
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I seemed to just get them. As our relationship developed
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: over the course of about six to eight months, they
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: eventually asked me to join them and their life partner
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: in their business. This business is related to the shared
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: hobby and something I'm deeply passionate about. It was a
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: huge risk, but I ended up leaving my stable, well
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: paying work from home corporate job to join them in
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: their business. I knew I was taking a risk, but
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: everyone in my life assured me that it's a good
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: thing to do in my life and that I'd always
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: land back on my feet if anything didn't work out.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: They made me financial promises, We signed legal documents and everything.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: A few months later, I'm working for them full time
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: in their small business, which is a complete one pint
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: eighty from my corporate job. I'm gone from home twelve
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: plus hours a day ensuring their business runs smoothly. At
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: this time, my best friend suffered a miscarriage after undergoing
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: I've vf treatments for two years. This sends her into
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: an absolute mental health spiral. Justifiably, However, since we were
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: so close personally and professionally at this point, it ruined
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: or it turned my life upside down. She became a
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: different person. She relied on me solely for her mental, emotional,
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: and physical support for over a year. She became suicidal
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: and in doing so, also extremely manipulative of me and
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: my time and energy. She wreaked havoc on me and
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: other personal or wreaked havoc on my other personal relationships,
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: my financial stabils, and my mental health. Without going into
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: the gory details, I stopped this person from committing suicide.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: On multiple occasions. She would require me to be with
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: her twenty four to seven to support her, and if
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: I said no, she'd fly into fits of rage and
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: tear me into bits. Keep in mind, I'm also keeping
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: her business afloat. At the same time, she constantly said
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: that no one stayed in her life for more than
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: two years, and I naively believed I could prove her
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: wrong and show her what a truly amazing friend I
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: could be, unlike those other people that failed her. I
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: truly felt that I alone could fix the broken pieces
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: inside her that I could fix her. I was so wrong.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: There are truly so many instances of unhinged things she
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: did to me that I couldn't possibly share them all here.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: Please know this was an insane situation and something I'd
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: never experienced before. I've never dealt with someone with such
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: complex mental health issues and trauma before. I ended up
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: leaving the business at the beginning of twenty twenty four
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: after issues continued to escalate. They stopped paying me on time,
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: bouncing checks and making me run in circles for them.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: I was easily putting fourteen plus hours in a day
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: into their business and being told I was never doing enough.
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: My mental and physical health suffered immensely. I started seeking
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: therapy for the situation in May of twenty twenty three
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: and have been going consistently since then. I'm back to
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: my corporate job I had before. Thank the Lord they
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: took me back. In this time of therapy, my therapist
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: has helped me work through so much of the trauma
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: I went through in the situation, and without armchair diagnosing.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: Thinks my ex best friend might suffer from something like
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: borderline personality.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Disorder, but I don't want to die.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: I know, literally was the only thing that opened my
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: eyes to how manipulative and distressing this entire situation was.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: I'm now just about a year out from having any
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: contact with her, but my anger is always at the forefront.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: I'm so goddamn angry about everything, the way they fucked
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: me over financially, lied to me, manipulated me with their
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: mental health issues, and used me up completely. I know
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: the stages of grief take different times for everyone, but
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: I have not been able to move past anger for
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: over a year now. If at any given time I
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: think too hard about the situation, I'm thrown headfirst into
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: fits of anger and rage that torment me for days
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: at a time. I've tried working through it in therapy,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: discussing it with others. Hell, I've even gone so far
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: as writing it all down and burning it in a fire,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: but nothing helps. I'm angry all the time. It festers
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: and stews, and I just can't seem to let it go,
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: even though a year later much I'm in a much
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: better place personally, financially and job wise. So how much
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: anger is normal? How do I let the situation that
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: plagued me for two years go. How do I let
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: them continue after all the hurt that they caused me.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: There was closure at the end of the relationship. We
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: both were able to say our peace about everything. But
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: I still can't let the anger go. Help signed perpetually?
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Mad m damn?
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: What a story?
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Good lord?
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tough.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: When someone's going slow at the airport, you.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: Don't use it and you remember that you.
• 49:28
  Speaker 3: Turn it off, let it out on the golf course.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: One day, you'll be good enough.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: No, I think, uh, I don't know one of the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: things that kind of stuck out to me. And I
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: don't know if this is what you're going through, But
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: I imagine as I'm hearing the story, I'm putting myself
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: in your position, and I'm trying to imagine how I
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: would feel. And I think the thing that would cause
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: me to just hold on to this resentment is the
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: feeling of not closure necessarily, but validation almost kind of
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: like there's no setting it right. But more importantly than that,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: the other person doesn't know how it fucked me over,
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Like there is a bit of that, like if the
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: person's like, ah, jeez, I know I can't set it right,
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: but I know I screwed you over Like just that
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: little bit is like it's just a it's just a relief,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: you know, and you're like, Okay, I can put this down.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And when you don't get that, and when you constantly
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: like it's almost like what reality are you living in
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: that you don't see how you fucked me over here?
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: You know, like this was such a bad situation. How
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: do you not see this? And the fact that you
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: don't see it kind of prevents me from moving on,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: So you just kind of hold on to it forever.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: They smashed into your car and every time they see
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: you in the parking lot, like, oh, that's looking really bad.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe you should be a better driver. That happen, You
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: did this, you did all of this. Oh no, it
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: couldn't have been. Yeah, And just that that denial with
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: the whole thing, you know, like that that keeps me stuck,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: and it's really difficult to move on beyond that, you know,
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: because it does kind of feel like, you know, the
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: that person's never going to You're never going to get that, yeah,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: so you kind of at some point have to be
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: able to. And the other thing too, is like it
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: does not affect them at all, Yeah, right, you know,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: like they're not staying up late at night worrying about you.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: You know, they're Yeah, they're not upset like, oh, I
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: can't I feel terrible about how I destroyed this person.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: They're the victim in their own mind, like in this
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: case the writers saying, like this person was still telling
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: me it's all my fault. I'm ruining their life. There,
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: they're everything's mine, you know, like I'm not holding I'm
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: a bad friend. Everybody else left every you know, after
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: two years, and I'm just gonna follow the pattern. It's
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: pretty rough.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Everyone is always the hero in their own story.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Right, Getting pre blamed for everything is pretty too.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so yeah, it is difficult because you're gonna
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: have to You're gonna have to realize that at the
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: end of the day, there's only one person that this
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: resentment is still affecting, right, and that's you. Yeah.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I had like two kind of separate thoughts
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: with this. One thought was when I work with clients especially,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: it tends to be younger ones in their like early twenties,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: say they've been in maybe like a a somewhat not
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: extreme abusive but like a mentally emotionally abusive relationship and
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: they come out of it. And the number one thing
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: that I hear even six months, a year, two years
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: after they've left this person is they kind of sit
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: with this idea that how is I like so stupid
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: to fall for this? Oh, and I'm reaching a little
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: bit here, writers, so like, take this with a grain
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: of salt, maybe like sit with it or talk to
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: your therapist. If this hits I could be way off.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: But I under if a little bit of that anger
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: especially don't I don't know the gender, but uh of
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: the writer, but if if they were male, like I
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: think they tend to express an anger more than anything.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: And so this idea that I'm pissed off because like
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: I was taken advantage of and it took control out
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: of your hands. And I see that in these kind
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: of mentally emotionally abusive relationships where it's hard to get
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: closure around like I let this happen, that feeling of
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: I let this happen, I should be clear. And especially
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: going back to what you shared in the beginning, You're like,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: I could I could fix this person. I could fix
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: this idea that there they could have a successful friendship.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: Like you put a lot of weight on your own
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: shoulders to like be the support person for this friend
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: of yours. And they did. They totally fucked you over.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: They took advantage of your kindness. They probably obviously have
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: their own mental health stuff going on, but they did.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: They ran you through the mud, and you didn't even
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: tell us all the things, and the things you did
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: tell us were insane to hear, like already, I exactly,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: But I wonder if kind of resolving in some ways,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: if you might have any type of like personal guilt
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: deep down about that. And what I usually go to
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: with clients I work with in that sense is trying
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: to take a sense of control back and say, well,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: that was two years of my life and they financially
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: hurt me, they emotionally hurt me, probably verbally hurt it.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of hurt that happened. And what
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: I really try and reinforce with those clients I work
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: with is what did we gain from that? What did
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: we learn? How did how could this empower you moving forward?
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: Like that sounds over simplified, but you know, really trying
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: to find almost like a silver lining to this, like
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: how is this going to help you moving forward? Because
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: that's the only thing we are in control of. Like
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Nick was saying, like who does this affect you? You can't
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: control how they're affected. Like they're living their own lives,
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: just like Jim said, like they aren't thinking twice about you,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: and they're going to sleep at night. You're the one
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: who's affected by this. So it's almost like trying to
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: that CBT, like trying to find a way to gain
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: that sense of control back for yourself. So that that
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: was one angle I thought of.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: You know, and it kind of reminds me just a
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: little plug for another podcast. I know we hate doing.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: We don't do that, I know, but we got to
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: do it this time.
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: There are other podcasts.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: There are there's well, there's one other one.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're legally obligated to recognize Jacob's at the end
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: of the.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: Seton and here's the other one.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. That one's not the one I'm referencing.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: It's not what we talked about. World's Greatest Con.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: We had Brian. We had Brian Brushwood on the show
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: World's Greatest Con. I remember like the very first season
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: of that, In the very first episode, he kind of
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: goes into a little bit about like how con artists work,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: you know, and just and the guilt that people feel
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: when they get conned, and it's just and in hindsight,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: you look back on it and you're like, oh my god,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: like that was so stupid, Like I met this guy
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: in a Walmart parking lot?
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: Why did I think?
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Hindsight, you know, it's but in the moment.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: It does be kind You're like yeah, and it's like
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: but it's like that's the con you know, like that's
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: that's what they're doing. And if it if they weren't,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: like they're good at it, why it happened.
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: Is not taking your money. That's the result of the con.
• 56:38
  Speaker 5: The con is they have gained your trust.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: That's what kN I mean.
• 56:45
  Speaker 5: You think about your life like you don't really like
• 56:48
  Speaker 5: fully trust all that many people just throughout your day
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: to day life. So giving someone your trust and to
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: find out that you've been duped is a weird thing
• 56:58
  Speaker 5: to happen.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: It is, And I guess the point that I'm kind
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: of getting at.
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: Withers like there's purpose behind it.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I'm getting at with this is
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: just the the idea and the understanding that like, well,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: you know, this works because they're good at what they do,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: you know, and so to to feel. And I agree, Whitney,
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't have I didn't think of that until you
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: mentioned it. But now hearing you say that, like, I
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: could definitely relate to a lot of that. I would internally.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: But then on the other hand, you know, I think
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: the way that you can combat that is, you know,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: the understanding of like, you know, I can't. I'm not
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: going to be upset with myself because you know, like
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: I played one on one against Lebron James and I
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: let him beat me at basketball. He's supposed to beat
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: me at basketball, Like it's not even supposed to be,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: Nancy Kerrigan.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like like you kind of you you
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: went into business with a professional here, like this person.
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Knew what they all those stops, the yes.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: And this was this was a game you were going
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: to lose, you know. And so I think give yourself
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: a little bit of a little bit of leeway on that.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: I think give you permission to acknowledge that it sucks.
• 58:16
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, sucks, fucking sucks, and like I am sorry
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: that it sucks.
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: People like that is something.
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: Like you're you're angry about it you're legitimately angry.
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: This this is this is like unjust that's the.
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: Thing is like this this is something worthy of anger,
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: but holding on to it. Yeah, it's like it's like
• 58:37
  Speaker 5: everybodys saying, like, you're only gonna You're only doing that
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: to yourself.
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to take the the I think the
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: Minority report perspective here. I agree with everything you guys
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: are what's called the movie that's the.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Charged with the Future Murder. That's where I'm going with this. Okay,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: is that what we're talking about. I want to allege
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: future crime.
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: Has my attention.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: This is what they call the weave. Yeah, this is
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: what I do. Yeah, let me show you how this
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: is done.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: Before you had my interest, now you have my No.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: No, the descent right, the small minority view or whatever
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: that is. So like when the Supreme Court justices disagree.
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: So like, I agree with everything y'all are saying. I
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: guess the only part I think that there's a couple
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: of little pieces that I would probably lean a little
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: bit different on the Fork in the Road because the
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: writer does kind of tell us some shitty things about
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: the human right and so like, hey, I liked this human.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think the writer's saying I felt deceived,
• 59:41
  Speaker 3: though the borderline kind of implies that later on. But
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: I hear the writer saying the human I loved changed.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: They went through a traumatic event. They had a miscarriage
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: after two years of IVF, which is a motherfucker, yep,
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: you know. And and like my friend, my best friend
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: was broken, and my best friend experience mental illness. My
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: best friend became suicidal, and in that desperation of suicidal
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: stuff and being an absolute train wreck and being a
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: business partner with me and all these other things, it
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: was like this flail in the writers and say this,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: but this was my visual. It's like this flailing person
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: in the ocean, right, who's like trying to climb aboard
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 3: your boat and they're flipping you and it's awful, right,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: And so like I kind of look at that a
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: little bit from that angle of like how difficult it
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: is when you love somebody and you know they are
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: going through it and then they are abusing you. And
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: that's what I hear in this letter too, Like the
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: writer says, I'm still going through the grieving process, and
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: I appreciate that point, and I think you and your
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: therapist are rite to describe this in a form as grieving.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 3: I also just think in this where I very much
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: agree with you, guys, I do think it's just straight
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 3: up trauma.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: I think you were just battered. I think you were
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: just abused, and it's like being an abusive marriage or something,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: or where you're being financially exploited, Stockholm syndrome shit, you know,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: being told that like you're the problem and you're not grateful,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: and I mean it's got all the workings of like
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: the worst parts of cults and like the worst parts
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: of just exploitative you know, kind of battered wife syndrome scenarios.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: That seems to be the story that comes out of this.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: So when I look at that amount of trauma that
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: the writer went through, this this constant abuse and mental
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: and emotional anguish with a human who was also not
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: a super villain twiddling their mustache in a cave, but
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: like a broken, mentally ill person who was going through it,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: and your love for them like held you hostage to
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: them even while they were abusing you. I guess I
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: just want to shine a light on that because I
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: think that's that's very relatable. Like, I think there's a
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: lot of people in the world who like are abused
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: by their children, or abused by a family member, or
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: abused by somebody that they love, and like, god, I've
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: seen this so many times in addictions, where like people
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: put up with fucking terror, you know, and then yeah,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: and I'll talk to them about this, like, hey, you
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: need to have some boundaries, you know, with your family member,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: and they'll be like, you know, you don't understand what
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: my family has been through, Like, oh my god, they've
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: been through so much. There's isn't so much pain. And
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: there's that old adage, right like hurting people hurt people,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean that we have to sit there
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: and suffer it. And I respect you, writer, because even
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: though it took a long time, you eventually drew that
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: boundary and you eventually did something that a lot of
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: humans really really struggle with, which is to say this
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: is inappropriate. I will not allow you to batter me anymore,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: even if I love you, I'm not gonna let you
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: torture me right and live in this perpetual jail cell
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: of feeling like I am failing you. I am the
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: cause of your problems and if only I can convince
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 3: you that I am loyal, that I am good, that
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: I am worthy of love, that then at least I'll
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: feel like you see that right? And so like the
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: therapy work that you're doing right now, I think is
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 3: so important. And if you haven't looked into things like
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: codependents anonymous, you know, groups that kind of reflect on
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: this situation where people that you know come from maybe
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: sharing those qualities that we might describe as codependent, have
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: this sensibility that they get trapped in these bad relationships
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: and they often can become the victim of abuse because
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: they they love hard and they're so desperate to make
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: it right and to satisfy the opinion of the other
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: that they are doing okay, that they are enough, that
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: I do love you enough, and we get into this
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: weird twisted logic that the abuser then has this lordship
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: over us, and yeah, it does become so bad that
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: they are kind of a villain. But I just wanted
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: to reflect on some of those beats because I do
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: agree I think that this was fundamentally abusive. I think
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: that what we're seeing is a reaction to trauma. Even
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: more so perhaps than grief. And I think the anger
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: reaction that we're seeing makes sense. Like if you've been
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: the victim of like relational abuse or sexual abuse, a
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: lot of people will talk about just feeling rage about
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: that all the time. You know, how dare you do
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: this to me? I'm still so pissed about it. I
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: think about it all the time. I'm carrying this huge
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: chip on my shoulder. My fists are always balled up.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: To me, that's a trauma reaction.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Edif he used to tell me, They're like, I see
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: now why people kill their spouses, because you know, I
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: watch like true cry stuff, and like the people who
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: report on all that, they'll be like, I still will
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: never understand why this person didn't just get a divorce.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: And I used to be like, what the hell? And
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: then I listen to some of some of my friends
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, I'm not condoning it, but
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: I see how we.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Get there at some because.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: I understand I don't, but I'm just.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: But have you ever heard him eat cereal?
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: It's not about the Cereal nicks, ye, God damn it,
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: I know, but I just mean the rages that I'm
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: just validating that that like you're your mind can go
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: some really dark places when someone has mainly emotionally it's
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: not even physically like that emotional like you've robbed me
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: of years of my life, financial like all.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: These things so deep. Yes, I poured myself out trying
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: to win you back in your moment of crisis, right
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: like I was desperately trying to fish you out of
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 3: the ocean. I knew you were drowning and you were
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: trying to kill me in this process, and I finally
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: did let me go and I climbed out, but at
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: great personal cost.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: It's insult on top of injury.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: It's so much, so much pain. So writer, I love
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 3: that you're doing that work. I mean, it's tough because
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: there's not a timeline on trauma recovery, right, and so
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: like you're doing the right things. In your letter, you say, look,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: I'm processing this, I've written it down, I've burned it,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: I'm trying so hard to release this. And I just
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: want to resonate that there are so many trauma survivors
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: in the world who relate to your letter, and you
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: know their circumstances may have been very different, but that
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: sense that they too, despite doing lots of work on
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: something cannot release it that they wish the technology exists
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: to delete memories and just to be done with this forever,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: to not let this person have it. Yeah, right to
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 3: get men in blacked, you know, with with that that
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: red light.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: That's what you were showing, right, that's what your relindments,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: pointing that red Yeah, pulling.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: That, pointing a gun at.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: Flash you're getting.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: Maced with many black.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: It's very relatable, writer, But I guess the encouragement I
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: would give you is my last thought is just leaning
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: into that continued trauma work. It does take a long time.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: I do believe that over the course of time it
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: starts to bend in a better direction. I do think
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: that is true. But I agree that like the splinters
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: are in there deep and sometimes like it just takes
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: a lot to eventually get through it. I mean, at
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: the end of the day, I'm glad that you changed
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: your life like you did the hard thing. Now, I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: think it's the trauma recovery portion, and that can be
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: a very long road.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: It can be. That was the second thing I was
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: going to say earlier, was that just with someone in
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: my own personal life that was kind of a journey
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: that the person. Even we did clear the air, like
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: we cleared it up, it should be fine, but you
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: still feel that resentment and you're like, why do I
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: still feel that? Like they've they've done the thing, they've
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: said the thing.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: I got a lot of sorry.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: I thought that would help and it didn't. And so
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: I try to.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 5: Make kind of mental note of that and try to
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: push that into intellectually anyway.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: And it's harder emotionally, but intellectually anyway.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 5: I try to push that into the you know, I'm
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 5: really good at forgiving people, but I'm not gonna forget.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I'm.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: Gonna remember it. It's it's I got it.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: It does change the relationship, it's not going to be that,
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: it's not going to.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: Be Yeah we move on to me and be really
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: fucking happy, but I'm gonna I'm gonna remember it. Yeah,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 5: It's it's just part of who I, who I think of,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: you know.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But for me, it just took it took like years,
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: and that did surprise me. So I would say that
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: to the writer, like it took a surprising amount of
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: time to finally release a lot of that, and I
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: didn't forget you're right, Jacob. Yeah, but like it took
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of years to release.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: That the emotional power has become less and not let
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: it like fester. But there wasn't one weird trick. There
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: wasn't a lever that you needed to find and then
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: once you push that button, oh wow, it's gone.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: It wasn't that. It wasn't a smoke ceremony or I
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 3: did ayahuasca in the you know, wugging desert, or I
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: burned the ceremonial torch. Like it just took the loss,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: did it?
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: But it helped?
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it just took him being drunk did help, like
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: the long hard work of trauma. Yes, that's right.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I think Also for me at least, it was like
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: a kind of a final straw. Like I again, maybe
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: this is a control thing for me. Maybe that's what
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: helps me that like like feeling and control, Like all right,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give this one more Sean, I'm gonna
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: set up expectations. I'm going to like feel a little
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: more in control. Which if you're not in contact with
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: this person, you don't want to be absolutely please do
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: not does not sound like a great idea, but just
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: finding a way to gain a sense of like control
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: over that, I think because we can't control the other person, which.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: Took Yeah, by cutting off that person, getting better their
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: power back. But yeah, I think we all are showing respect,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: you know, to what you're going through. Writer, We're honoring
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: it by not pretending that there's one cool trick about
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: letting go of this so much resentment after years of physical, emotional, psychological,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 3: and financial abuse. All I can tell you is that
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: it is a long road to recovery, but people do recover,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: and I'm glad that you're doing the work. I think
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: you're a good example of somebody who did the hard thing.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: You drew the boundary, you escaped, and that is the
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 3: hardest fucking part. We talk to people all the time
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 3: that are in the midst of this kind of shit,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: and we're the ones begging them like, hey, we're gonna
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: help you, empower you, try to get you out of this,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: and a lot of times we watch as they just
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 3: keep reaching back into that fucking water, trying to pull
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: this person out, and it takes time before that finally
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 3: dawns on them, like I think this is not going
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: to get better, and you got you escaped and to me.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: That's everything. So and you let it got back on
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: your feet too, which is tremendous. And now the healing
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 3: begins and it persists anyway, But anyway, we'll leave it there.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: Thank you writer for this question. It's a really good one.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: We're gonna take quick break and when we come back,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 3: we're gonna talk about dating a person in early recovery
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: from addictions. You're listening to pod Therapy.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: Today's episode brought to you by cry Baby Scoop, Mason, Miller,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: Test Miller, Biler, Team Paris, Team Monico, Hoss, Hannah, Marie
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: and McCain and Myra and if you like Swas's show,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: become a thera producer. Shron dot Com Trio babys scene
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: song is deep in my brain stem now.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: Making dreams come true?
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 3: Babies.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: Oh man, Jesus must be at the edge of that generation.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: Yes I am, yeah, so.
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Much older than me.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 3: A couple of months are really getting me there. Okay,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: here we go, Jacob, You're up all right, Eddie Murphy,
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: Oh Jesus, I think it is quite a few, really.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, so far the numbers have been going up,
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: They've been going higher and higher. He's going to effect.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: Let's go ten.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: On the nose.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: Whoa for? I know Eddie's Murphy's children.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: Don't worry about it, that's right, I'm one of them.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 4: I do know one of them. One of his kids
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: used to sit in the sound booth with me. Oh cool, yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 5: He has a daughter with Melby one and their daughter
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 5: used to sit in the sound boots with the rehearsals. Yes,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 5: she was so sweete She was great because I had
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 5: like a little break room under the booth, so her
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: girls would like hang out in the breakroom down there
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 5: playing Xbox and hang it out during.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: And the kid's name was number ten.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: That's say, you were like.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 3: I think that's it. I think that's the last one. Wow,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: tax break number seven? Okay, Whitney. So it's a little.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: Challenging, a little tricky, all right. The Handsome Brothers collectively,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: I think these are not the Paul Newman in nineteen
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: seventies slapshot movie Handsome Brothers.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: Differentiation. Yes, I knew responsible.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: One of my friends just posted, like last week they
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: went to their concert.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: They're still Oh yeah, yeah, they're killing it. Yeah they are.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: They're they're good.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 4: I believe they are. Weirdly good at what they do.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, so there's three handsome boys. To be clear, they.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Somehow, somehow to collectively they were all able to have children.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, biologically. I don't know how.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: That was the miracle of something. Yes, it was Margarita's bird.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: A Turkey based.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Guess ten.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: Wow, No, sorry, you're not within the window up or down?
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: Let me go low?
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, No, I thought that was going to be I
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: thought that was going to be people, and it's not. Sixteen.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, between the three of them, collect my hands in points.
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah okay, Jim Yes, Nick Cannon.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: God, damn it a ship. I knew he was going
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: to be in there.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: Dude.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to say.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 4: I think I just know this one.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: I thought I did, But now I'm down. Some of
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: these numbers are insane.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 3: Give I'll take twenty okay, no lower, correct. I believe
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 3: it's twelve.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: Started a couple of months ago, and they talked about
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: the kids.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: Jacob nos celebrity children. He's delivered many of the celerity.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: I shall say.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: He hung out a lot of P Diddy parties and
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: he was there when they were.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: Consisted under his desk.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 4: Don't worry about it.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Christ let's do another round real quick.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Jacob, all right, duncan on us Eastwood,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: Oh oh.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: Six, No, not a window. Okay, what are you going?
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: You're gonna go hire one point eight?
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 4: Whoa?
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: I thought more than that.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, goes to Whitney, Whitney Rod Stewart.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Fifteen.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know these, Okay, I'm gonna go lower.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: It is lower?
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: Yes, also eight.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: Theo very famous number here.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: Jim, Yes, Christopher Walking.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: Does I'm gonna go with a sensible five?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: Less? Yes, No, I'm just playing the game. I figured
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: there'd be a twist.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: There is a twist, children, Christopher Walking. That's why it's
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: so rich as Okay, it's the end of the game.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: Nick's gonna throw at a twist.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: This is gonna be I've got three more, but the
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 3: next one. Dating a person in early recovery, Hey all,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: I've recently met someone let's call her Baguette, and we've
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 3: had a great Yeah, we've had a couple of starter dates.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: She has a substance use disorder and is in recovery,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 3: working her twelve step program, has a sponsor, is a
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: sponsor to another person in her and generally seems to
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 3: be in a great place in herself. However, I am
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: a total outsider to sober community, if that's even if
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: that's even the right term. I've searched the interwebs and
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: found resources for people who have a history with an addict,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: but nothing for someone entering a sober person's life post recovery.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: I know that talking to Baguette is the best way
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: to get her specific answers, but if things continue to
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: go well, I'll eventually meet others within Begette's social circle,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 3: and I don't currently have the tools in my belt
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: to keep from making an ass of myself, and I'm
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: pretty good at doing that without trying to anyway. For
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: what it's worth, I could be totally happy living a
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 3: sober lifestyle along the right person, but I know my
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: choice to be sober is in no way equivalent to
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 3: sober for someone with a substance use disorder. I am,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: of course talking with my therapist about this, but she
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 3: doesn't have an addiction's background, so I'm still looking for
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: more advice, good sarcastic or otherwise. I know who I'm
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: asking A maybe dryer but not stale, crusty croissant.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 4: Got to hate that word, but they're so delicious.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Now entering relationships after the person's already then in recovery,
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 2: like you met them there.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: It sounds like they're pretty well established to because they're
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 3: sponsoring somebody else.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 6: Well, yes, I would hope, so yeah, yeah, what does
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 6: it mean?
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: We all know that that's not the case.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: But the writer, I'm.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 5: Assuming that they are in a fairly good space because
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: the writer is saying like, oh, they are someone else's sponsor,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 5: that they're They're clearly trying to communicate that the writer
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 5: feels like this person that Yeah.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: What I'm saying is.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: Seeing people, seeing people put in positions that they have
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: got a sponsor, and like, dude, you were drinking.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 3: Two weeks ago, you graduated from rehab.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: The ink is wet on.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: But for general knowledge, though, people usually will not sponsor
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 3: until they've completed the twelve steps. The twelve steps are
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: something that do not have a precise timeline, but usually
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: in the twelve step community, they're usually not talking about
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: sponsorship until you've got about a year. Yeah, you might
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 3: be a co sponsor with a sponsor like you, and
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: you might help out your brother or sister kind of
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: person at your peer level, but usually they're not encouraging
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: you to sponsor other people, and other people shouldn't really
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: be asking you to sponsor them until you've got at
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: least a year, and usually you're not sponsoring for a
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: little while after that too. So, based on just what
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: the writer's telling us the plane reading, probably this person's benefit.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Of the we will assume not in early recat, oh
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: says in early recovery, does it say you have a
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: title dating a person in early records?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: Is?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: I wrote that that's not that's not their title. Oh yeah,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: I glanced at it and thought that was the thesis. Sorry,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 3: writer's an idiot. Yeah, it's a new relationship. They were good.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 4: I've read the email by myself.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I just glance at them and try to figure
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: out the title, and I make.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: It up fair enough.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: That's more more than what I do.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: You're still this week's episode.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: Al Right, here's the thing. Yes, I think you're spot
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: on correct, and that like your partner will guide you
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: in this, you know, and will kind of help set
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: those parameters. But uh, since you wrote in anyway, let's
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: give you some some feedback and some things that I
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: think because you brought up a really good point like, Okay,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: you're kind of as far as working with her, going
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: to take her lead on this and everything, but you
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: will eventually meet her group in the community, and it
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: is an interesting community to kind of really be a
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: part of. And I say this like not and again
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not talking about like people who are currently in
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: their addictive life and not people who are new in recovery,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: but I mean people who are well established at their recovery.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: They've got time.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: They're the most fascinating people you'll ever meet people. You know,
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: I worked with so many people that had, you know,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: fifteen twenty twenty five years in the program and have
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: not touched anything in that amount of time. And just
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: a wealth of knowledge and just perspective, the way that
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: they look at things, the way that they assess situations,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's you know, risk all about you know,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: avoiding high risk situations and you know, putting a lot
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: of thought into things that the average person doesn't have
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: to think about.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, being very introspective. It's like talking to somebody who's
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: been through a shitload of therapy and she probably has,
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: you know, and like I think you'll notice little things
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: like they tend to be very comfortable getting group feedback
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: on whatever they're feeling or whatever their decisions are. Like,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 3: I doubt very much that this person started dating you
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 3: and their recovery group never heard about it. Their home
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: group has knows all about you, dude. Yeah, and the
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: sponsor knows all about you. And people assessed whether this
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 3: was a good thing, and probably this girl sought advice,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 3: you know, and like got feedback from people. That's one
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: thing I think that's unique to people coming out of
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 3: that community. Another one I think is being very like
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: comfortable because of the program and the way the program
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 3: teaches people to like notice what they're feeling and identify
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 3: it and like talk it out, you know, like tell somebody, hey,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: I have a resentment towards you right now. I remember
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: the first time a person that we had worked with,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: long term person in recovery, and they came up to
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 3: me and they said, I need to talk to you
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 3: about something. I have a resentment towards you. And I
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: remember thinking to myself.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, use it in a sentence, yeah,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: another sentence.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: Besides what I remember thinking to myself. On one hand,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: I thought, like the therapist in me thought, gosh, that
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: is so advanced like that is just you are so enlightened.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: I am literally a therapist. I don't have that lexicon.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 3: I don't have that grasp or that comfort level that
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 3: I've done this enough in my life that I would
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: I could walk up to somebody, as a fucking mature
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: adult and say, can I talk to you about something
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 3: I'm finding that I'm I have a resentment with you,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: and I like you and I don't want to resent you.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: Can we talk about that? I just remember thinking wow.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: On one hand, I thought wow. On the other hand,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 3: I thought, I'm your fucking boss. I don't give a
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: ship with yours, and I don't need to hear them.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: Hold on, I got to check the door here. I
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: don't know why I put this goddamn doorbell on this
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: this little pantry underneath the Hello, Hello, God damn it,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: you get the fuck back in that place.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: No, No, give me that spray bottle, Whitney, that's a
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: that's a crime.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, she melted.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: She was a witch the whole time.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the recovery community has a lot of maturity and yeah, yeah,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 3: but that's another thing though, is like sometimes they'll say, hey,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: look and I need to talk to you about something
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: and you're like wow. But also, and this is not
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: a dig on the community, but we're talking about humans
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: who have struggled with the way emotion can control their lives, right,
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: and being impulsive and being spontaneous, and with a lot
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: of recovery, those things may have died away. But sometimes
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 3: I've noticed, with my patience and long term recovery, when
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: they start getting into those big relationships, especially if it's
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: the first big relationship in recovery, the emotions really test
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 3: some of those self moderation skills because they're feeling big
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: stuff and sometimes they're really offended or they're really hurt.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: And it's not that they want to drink or like use,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 3: but just like it can sometimes come out big and
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 3: the energy can be big, and I think like the
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: normy in their life is like what the fuck is
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 3: going on? Whereas somebody else in the program would recognize
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: that behavior and be like, Okay, I know to put
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 3: a lit on this, or like, why don't we both
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 3: go talk to our sponsors, like let's let's breathe. That's
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 3: come back to this. So I mean, that's another little
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: tip that you know, again not to the stereotype and
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: entire community of people. But you know, they're in recovery
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 3: for a reason, and one of them was emotional difficulty.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: I think one of the other things that they're a
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: skill set that a lot of people in long term
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: recovery have that most average people don't have, and also
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: most people in early recovery don't have, is the ability
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: to identify small things and understand how it affects them. Yeah,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: like the ability to identify small changes in patterns of
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: their own behavior. Yeah, like, you know, oh I noticed,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: you know, I was I was five minutes late for
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: work this morning. I was, you know, three minutes late
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: for work. Yesterday I was two minutes late for work.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Us something's wrong. I need I need to get back
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: into my patterns. You know. The average person, I think,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: is just looking at that and just kind of like,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: oh whatever, I was just late, you know. But somebody
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: with long term recovery who has created a pattern of
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: behavior that that supports their recovery, they notice shit like that.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: I love.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: That's how they've been able to get fifteen twenty twenty
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: five years. Yes, so you know that's just another little
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: thing that you're probably gonna notice.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 3: Well, and you got to you gotta respect that kind
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: of person because if they have some time that did
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: not happen by accident, and if they got into the
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: community and this person sponsoring other people, you need to
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: respect this up there with like it's a religion to them,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: but even bigger than that, because sometimes I feel like
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 3: that's dismissive of the whole thing. It's medicine. This is
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: their insulin and they have a fucking disease, and like
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 3: you need to respect that when they're like, anything I
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: put before my recovery, I will lose. That includes this relationship.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 3: And that can be hard for people because you know,
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: whenever you date somebody and like, you meet somebody with
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: sustained recovery, these are some of the most awesome human
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 3: beings you'll ever be because.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: In a relationship, it's wonderful to hear the other person
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: say you're the most important thing in my life. Yeah,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: but when you're when you're dating something in long term recovery,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: you're going to hear that You're not. You're gonna hear
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: my sobriety, my recovery is the most important thing in
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: my life.
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: They won't write that in your birthday card. But they will,
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: they will live it, and you will notice that writer,
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 3: And it can be very easy to be like, gosh,
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: sometimes I feel like I I ask you if you
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 3: want to go out on Friday night, and you tell
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 3: me you've got a commitment, you know, and you've got
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 3: a meeting you've got to go to, or you've got
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: a sponsor you've got to meet with. And that's another
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 3: thing I think we're not always used to in dating
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: relationships is discovering how close and how intimate your your
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 3: partner is with a lot of other people. It's usually
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: same gender, but like they're gonna have deep roots with
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: people in their life. And sometimes you're gonna hear about
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: that and think, huh, I think you're a little enmeshed
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: with these people. And I think that's you need to
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 3: have some boundaries and and you have to understand that,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 3: like recovery is a team sport, Like they're swimming together.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: They're all linked in arms and kicking like hell to
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 3: stay above the water. I need them and they need me,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: and and anything we put in front of our recovery
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 3: will will lose. And so that means you've got to
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 3: like show respect for that and you're allowed to still
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 3: have needs and you're allowed to still communicate to this
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: partner and in recovery, like, hey, sometimes I do feel a
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 3: little back burnard, I feel a little unimportant, I feel
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 3: a little neglected. Can you think on that for me,
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: and and just make sure that you're checking in on
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 3: yourself and how much room you're able to make for
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 3: me and just where that fits inside of all this,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 3: because I'll go with you to the meetings if that's okay.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 3: Which also we should probably talk a little bit about etiquette,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: like the etiquette of dating somebody, because there's the obvious stuff,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 3: like you're with somebody who has a gluten allergy, like
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: maybe don't always fucking recommend places they can't go, you know, like.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: Never mind you can't red bulls in town.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So I mean there's some obvious etiquette of.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: Like taking from a little experience.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean hypothetically, like you obviously don't want
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: to say things like oh we should go to this pub,
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 3: or like I want to try this place, or like
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: there's some obvious stuff New Year's Eve, not buying champagne
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 3: for you and apple juice for them, like just give
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: it up. Like just don't have it in the house,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 3: purge it from your calm. If you're a person like
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 3: keep some nice liquor somewhere, like okay, just put that
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 3: in storage, like you just don't need it for a while.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 3: There's some basic etiquette, but I think there's also some
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 3: etiquette when it comes to like understanding the culture of
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 3: like this person's life, you know, and just I don't know,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: just like showing some respect and deference for their program,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 3: for their ways of thinking, and checking in with their
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: level of comfort too, I think is a big thing
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: as well.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: A friend of mine and I were out a couple
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 5: of weeks ago, and he is in recovery. He's in
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 5: recovery for alcohol. And we were at an event and
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: we were sitting directly across from our places, were directly
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 5: across from each other, splitting a small table between us,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 5: and we were both like sitting at the table, you know,
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 5: for for this event, and you know, the waitress came
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 5: around and said, you want a cocktail, you want anything,
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 5: and uh, And while she was taking the other orders,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 5: I just kind of leaned over to my friend. I
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 5: was like, Hey, I've never done this before, but because
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 5: it's going to be under your nose, Like it's gonna
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 5: be sitting on the table just directly under your face
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 5: because you know, there's like a foot between us and
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: it's just one of those small little tables, not like
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 5: a big dining table or anything. So it's gonna be
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 5: right under your nose. Is that gonna bother you? And
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 5: of course it's like absolutely not. You know, it's been
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: so so many years. Whatever it is, Uh, you know,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: don't worry about it. But I mean, sure, it doesn't matter. Good,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 5: just fucking ask. Yeah, it's it's okay. Yeah, it doesn't
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 5: have to be a big thing. I probably made a
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 5: bigger thing out of that than it needed to be
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 5: because I didn't know how to ask the question.
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 3: And if you were an important question to.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 5: Ask, and I don't have to have a drink right now,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 5: And if it's going to bother you sitting under your nose,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 5: because this is a bit intrusive, you know, this is
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 5: a weird one.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: So what do you think, Well, if you were also
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: going to make out with that person that night, you know,
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 3: like you could end up being intimate with them, Sure
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: carry that in mind. That that and like this.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: Is another thing because I want to be able to
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 4: give consent.
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, legally right, that's important. But you know, is that
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: not what you meant? You know what I do want
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: to mean that. I want that to be part of
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 3: what I mean. I'm gonna include that. I'm gonna adopt
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: that message. But writer, another thing you think of is
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 3: it isn't I know that we make it sound like
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: everybody's this shaky little branch and at any moment they
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 3: could just plunge and spiral their lives. Long term recovery
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 3: actually starts to bend the other direction where they find
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: it repulsive. Uh, this hurt them, this traumatized them. They
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 3: don't like it. And so a lot of people in
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 3: long term recovery they don't like it the way people
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 3: that don't smoke don't want a date a smoker. And
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: so whenever you're like, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna order
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: something and I'm not gonna bother you with it, it
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: may be a turnof And so that's something to think
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 3: about too, is you know, going back to this etiquette.
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 3: It might not offend them, but they may be less
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: attracted to you if if you're going to keep fiddling
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 3: with this stuff, and you know, you said in the letter, Hey, look,
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: I don't care at all like I'll be sober, but
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: I also appreciated your note here writer where you said
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: I also want to show respect because me choosing to
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: be sober is not the same as what they had
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: to go through to choose to be sober. That is
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: when Nick tells me he knows what it's like to
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: be a dad because he has two dogs, Like, don't
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 3: do that. You say it too, and you don't even
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: have dogs.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: It's like to be a dad because Nick has two dogs.
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 3: Very they are very needy dogs, the kind.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: Of and they're loud.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: It's a solid argument.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: And I do have a I do have a college
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: funds good. Good, it's a financial yeah.
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: Part of that I noways you have them insured under
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: your health and yeah, that's very important, and they're in
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: your will and trust.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm teaching my bagle how to drive.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: That's exciting. Sixteen, Oh my god, is she already well?
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: The milestones?
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 4: But it is.
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 5: I mean, there is kind of an easy path to
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 5: answer that question though, too, and that is you you
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 5: know that you're not giving up, but you know that
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 5: you know what you're doing. You know you know how
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 5: much or how little you are giving up by saying
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 5: that you won't drink, and you know that you were
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: doing that as part of her recovery and not something
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 5: that that you necessarily need to do for your own life.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Also quickly, there's a gajillion pieces of etiquette to this,
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 3: So definitely keep learning from the community, and like I
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 3: would recommend going on subreddits and just like learning from
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: the community to listen to the way they talk about things.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 3: Don't out hurt. That's another thing. Yeah, Like sometimes people
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 3: will think that's the right thing to do. Oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: So you're bringing your new girlfriend to hang out with
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 3: your boys, do you want to drink?
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: Guys, Guys, guys, don't do that because she's in recovery.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 3: Don't do that. Don't do You might be thinking, oh,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: that's a courtesy. I'm getting ahead of this. That's extra
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 3: loving and polite of me.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 4: No thanks is fine.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: Sometimes people are just like, that's my truth, man, that's
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: one of the most intimate details of my life. Like
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 3: I've chosen to tell you that.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 1: But she's supposed to be wearing an armband.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: Right right, right, yeah, yeah, the hospital band. Yes, that's
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: how you know. Yeah, but there's a gajillion little pieces
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 3: of etiquette that go with this. I love that you're
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 3: taking a curious posture and yeah, just showing a lot
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: of respect for the journey. It is one of the
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: harder things a human being can do. And the fact
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: that she's been able to get into long term recovery that,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 3: as Nick said, means that she has a program that
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: she is working to this day. She has not taken
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: her foot off the gas.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 4: She's got a routine.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: You've got to respect that. It's the same as dating
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: somebody as a chronic illness who says, hey, look like
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 3: it or not. I have to measure my blood sugar
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: this many times a day. It will affect when I
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 3: go to bed, it will affect what I'm available for.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 3: If that doesn't work for you. But you said you
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: were an alcoholic, right, yeah, but it's important. I still
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 3: have to measure all these things that be excellent. That
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 3: does so anyway, writer, a lot of respect brought to
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 3: the game, I think is huge. And just familiarizing yourself
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 3: with some of the culture, some of the if you
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: could go on an AI bot and ask like, give
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: you a list of you know, fifty words or phrases
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: that are commonly used in twelve step recovery groups. I
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: think that would be a great like area to think,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: even just learning what the steps are and what those
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 3: actually are, because reading them doesn't do a good job
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: of telling you what the hell that's all about. Like
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: taking the Fearless Moral inventory sounds like all right, you
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: make a list. It's like, oh no, this I feel
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 3: extremely depth work.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: I feel like you can go a little too far
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: with that sometimes too Okay, good point. Yeah, in the
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: sense that, like, you know, if I was in her position,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want, you know, my person who I'm dating
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: to be like, oh well, I read this article on it,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: so I get what you're thinking about. I understand. It's like,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: let's slower role here, Like I know what I'm doing. Yeah,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: I'll help kind of guy us in this in the
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: like area, you know.
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: Yah, doing a little basic background research but using that
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: more as field work.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just just be there to learn, you know, and uh,
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: you know, I agree with I agree with you, Jim though,
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Like if you're I wouldn't have it at home. Like
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: if you don't feel the needs to drink, I wouldn't drink.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: I geah, it's just not you know, and you're gonna
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: have to kind of make a decision like this is
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: the relationship you're gonna if this is a relationship you want.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: Every relationship comes with sacrifices, you know, and if this
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: is one of those things, not to say that, you know,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: you can't if you go out golfing with your buddies
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: on Saturday, you can't have a beer. Yeah, you know,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: just come home and you know, just be I don't.
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 4: Have to be sober, but yeah, you might not want
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 4: to keep it in the house.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: And also so there's there's this argument that and I
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 3: think this is a good question for the writer to
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 3: ask themselves, is do I want to go ahead and
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: just choose to be sober for a while while I'm
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 3: in this relationship, Because I think if we put a
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 3: lot of energy on this, we could be like, well,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 3: I just all, here's how I'm going to show respect.
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 3: Here are my special rules, and here's what I will
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 3: and here's when I won't and if I do, I
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 3: will not see her for twenty four hours. And it's like,
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: at some point it starts to become this thing where
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: it's like, hey, ask yourself if you just would like
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: to just try matching lifestyles for a while and see
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: how that goes.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: How am I supposed to numb my feelings if I
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: can't drink the beer?
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: Push it way down? Okay, So this is actually really funny.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: There's this I was talking with one of the guys
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: that a golf with and there's there was this video
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: that kind of went viral many years ago and it
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: was about Phil Nicholson, and so somebody was doing an
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: interview and somebody asked him, you know, questions, and he's
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: very scientific about the game of golf, and you know,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: he's they were asking a question like, okay, you got
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: this many yards into a you know, part three, what
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: club are you going to hit or whatever? He's like, well,
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: what's the temperature? Yeah? What time is? It's what's the point?
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: Because he's like what He's like, He's like, you got
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: to know, like you know, like, well is it wet out?
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: Because we because moisture gets between the ball and the
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: club face, so it's going to take been off of it.
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: You have to understand the humidity. You have to understand
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: you know which way the sun is going, so you
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: know which way the grass is bending and you know
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: all this stuff. Like he was just like that's just
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: the way his mind, Like he goes into all of
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: this to calculate a single shot. And I was talking
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: to my buddy, and I'm like, that's funny because I
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: do the exact same thing, except how to manage my.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 3: Buzz because like like like there's I can have.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: I can have too much beer and then I'm a
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: shitty golfer, and I can have no beer and be
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: a shitty golfers a razor's.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: Edge, which I'm fucking amazing. I'm really good.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: But it's the third beer is in Well, no, it's
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: not that simple. It's the same science. I gotta beer
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: and a half for breakfast. There's a lot of stuff that.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: Goes in the documenting everything.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: What's the alcohol.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: That's all right?
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 3: Was this a mixed drink?
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: Is there?
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 4: I said it.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: That's gonna factor in there with a breathalyzer on every
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: fucking team. Anyway, writer, great question, glad, and need a
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: cup of coffee.
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 3: We're taking a break. When we come back, we are
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 3: saying thank you to all of our patrons. You're listening
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: to pod therapy.
• 1:37:21
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• 1:37:25
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• 1:37:33
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• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: com slash therapy. Jacob. How many kids does Mick Jagger have?
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, Mickey McCoo, Mick Jagger, that's not what he said.
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: You guys know it.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 4: What I said.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 3: Don't you gaslight me, you sons of bitches.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 4: Ah how he kisses Mick Jagger?
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 3: Hat that's Mick Yegger.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 4: Four.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: No, I'm gonna guess ten.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 4: So higher?
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: Oh higher, sorry, sorry higher? I forgot what we're doing.
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, eight? Okay, okay, all right, Whitney okay, Alec Baldwin.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 2: Oh, oh my god, him and Hilaria that's his wife's name.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's just another one.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 2: It's least seven.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: Seven, Well, he's Irish, that's within the range.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 4: It's eight.
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, damn, it's eight, yeah, ship, I gave him the
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: extra with the seven. I thought it was six.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: Jim for the wind. Kevin Bacon what okay?
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: These are his children? Not children? He's stolen correct.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, alright, those numbers in one thousand.
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's everywhere because it's go ahead and
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: give me.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: Six.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: I'll take six.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: No, yes, higher, No, this is another tricky only two.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 3: Sensible number of children, Bacon.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: Just just replacements, that's all you need.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: Replace the population. Well, we want to thank a.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 4: Most children have ties to Kevin Bacon.
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 3: That's all six degrees. You'll always get back to Kevin.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: Thank you to those who have been signing up at
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 3: patreon dot com slash therapy. We know that Mental Health
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 3: Awareness Month is over, but guess what, we keep doing
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 3: the show anyway, and so you should answer of the
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 3: show and help power it, make it possible because we
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: are super grateful. And so we've got some new friends
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 3: that have joined the Thera party. Who's new to the bunch there, Nick, We.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: Got a new therapeal, Cynthia. Welcome to the show, Cynthia.
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: We got two new therap pods. We got the the Wittle,
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: the Little Shitty Titty Kitty. Thank you for that.
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 6: And and Gavin Hart gravin Heart, welcome to the party
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 6: to our new therapods.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: And we got three new theodactyl we got I okay,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: there you go.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: Wow, thank you.
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: We have a new theodactyl A Krusty crossant welcome, welcome back,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: and Casey mentor.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 4: You shouldn't have.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: Told us that, because now we know that.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: We have contact information from freshman year randomly being placed together.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: We last all four years.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: Can we make a special the show, She finally brings
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: on us.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: Can we dodactyl? I think you should do a get
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 3: to know a theradactyl.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: We're talking about get to know a the host.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 3: I remember this idea.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, as soon as they get vacation, I'm gonna do that.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 3: We've got a bunch of therapods who support us. You.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: That's you, buddy.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 3: We like to think all of our therapods every month,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 3: and Theradactyls and of course their producers and partners are
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 3: every episode. But our therapods who power the show. We
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 3: sure do appreciate you. People like the dark Lord himself,
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 3: Jim's Fasha University, Jeff Robert Paulson, Linda Brandmeyer, Scoopsure Not,
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 3: Joseph Bengrazio, Corey Owens, Christine Phillips, Gavin Bristow, Carrie ter
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 3: Hark Kiwi Fruit Scoop take It Eat Witman didn't Gavin
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 3: Bristow just isn't that somebody else can't move it?
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 4: I don't know?
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 3: Yep, all right, never mind Carrie tar Here We Fruit Scoop,
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 3: take an Evy Podcast.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: James K.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: Craig, Little Don Door, Jim Hunter Scoopa, Tron Todd Canfield,
• 1:42:06
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• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: Katie Chibbakowski, Adam Pettanouzo, Matt's Lennigren Scoop Itter Ascending, Lee Popsicle,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 3: Ian Sotoe That Josh Guy Mom and Ninja Scoop, James Dawson,
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 3: Sarah Olo, Grumpy Lake Meat Park Ranger, Sam Buck, Karen McCulloch,
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 3: What Weekend, Lila be Gay do Crimes, Kelly Gagner, Nippy,
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 3: Brian Emra, Matthew Johnson, Alec Lancaster, Congratulations Alec Alick got hitched?
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so beautiful wedding photos all over the Discord.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 3: We're super excited for you. Buddy Rich must have gotten lost.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: Out there somewhere he didn't want to get.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 3: Jad Kung and Julius Cappell, Stacey A literal Pickle, Matthias
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 3: Van de Brandt, Max the Ginger, Scoop, Ken Tinsley Protect
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 3: and Scoop Smells Funny, Matthew Cubic, Duffy The Slowly getting
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 3: their Therapist, Bear, Chad, Chad the Safety Lad, Joel McMillan,
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 3: Wall Walker Flew nailed it, Kirka Grim, Philip Guiton, Tim
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: Mystery Almost Doctor Nurse, Joey, Chris Conway, Melissa l. Geisler,
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 3: Christopher de Gersey, Trisha Ortiz, Kirsten Johnson, Freya Lawson, d J.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 3: Sewert Mississippi Hippie Listen Scott A, Patty Glad, Phefee, Anthony Camarata,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: Heather W.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: Kyle.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 3: This fucking name is written in wing dings. I can't
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 3: possibly pronounce that. David Williams k Police Frontastic, Buddy Dobbins,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 3: Eric Dyer, Ceronel Pillar, Glitch, Scoop, Nathan Mookie, bug Nuts,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: Steven Landon, Aletta Balaize, Kenneth Wong, John Finlayson, Mysterious, analid
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 3: Adam ballaz k, Pizzle Dizzle, Robert Cole, Persephonie Hazzard, kJ
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: Karen car Carmen Perry nailed it. Mister Poffsen, Situm, Temporary Reality,
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  Speaker 3: Jeff Darnell, Jimibi, Jacob hurt Ray, j Shark, Silka Daniels
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 3: Recreated What does Scoop Mean? Jenny Rose, Jacob Billingsley, Alex Jardine,
• 1:43:56
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• 1:44:00
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• 1:44:04
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• 1:44:10
  Speaker 3: Grace Any, Bitty Chicken Farmer, Jagan Keeley, sam Ka, Matthews,
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 3: Chill Food, John Cavaradas, Zachary w Fish, Bumfish, j W. Reynolds,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 3: Michael f Cloudy Pies, Foxy Sally ty Evans, Neck Pubes,
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: Matthew Connor, john s Winter Scoop, Andreas Zukusus with the Widdle,
• 1:44:31
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• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: And Our Third actyls Ice Blue Scoop, Brian Lehman and
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: Andrea Anderson, lori Elsroth Sayshaunagan Scoopy, Scoopy, Jesses Okie Scoop,
• 1:44:43
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• 1:44:47
  Speaker 2: Jim and Monnu, the Offices of Counselor and Counselor, Manuel Cavassos,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: A Krusty Croissant Quathor, Chad mag R T B B Hermit,
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: Mommy Damate, I.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's gonna throw that one time.
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: Spot.
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: If you would like to hear this episode uncut and unedited.
• 1:45:13
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• 1:45:16
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  Speaker 3: To that's all the time we got for this week's session.
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  Speaker 3: I'm Nick Sangeman. George Bush hates black horses.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks and we'll see if you're planning legally. Yes, like
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• 1:47:03
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• 1:47:04
  Speaker 4: Bye Bye,