Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / "Cops pulled me from my daughter's funeral for DNA test" Karina Vetrano dad reveals new details, Part 2

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"Cops pulled me from my daughter's funeral for DNA test" Karina Vetrano dad reveals new details, Part 2 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Her father, her usual running partner,
0:14
Speaker 1: stayed at home that day because of a back injury.
0:17
Speaker 1: He grew concerned after he couldn't reach his daughter shortly
0:20
Speaker 1: after she set out on her run, the retired firefighter
0:23
Speaker 1: calling the police and joining them on the search for Karina.
0:27
Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend at ABC World News tonight.
0:30
Speaker 1: That's Maria, she of a compo. Listen. He was the
0:33
Speaker 1: one to find her body based down in a marsh
0:37
Speaker 1: fifteen feet away from the trail, just four hours after
0:41
Speaker 1: she left her home. It is wrong to kill an
0:44
Speaker 1: innocent young woman, the Toronto's mother, issuing a fiery promise
0:49
Speaker 1: to the killer. I guarantee you you will pay forever.
0:55
Speaker 1: We also have DNA from her fingernails. Father as long
0:58
Speaker 1: as we have. Despite frequents to the public for help
1:01
Speaker 1: and a reward of almost three hundred thousand dollars, the
1:04
Speaker 1: case went cold and I am right now a broken,
1:09
Speaker 1: broken woman. But I will say this, I have one
1:15
Speaker 1: hundred and ten percent confidence that this parison will be caught.
1:24
Speaker 1: Vatronto's grieving parents in court Sunday at Louis's arrangement, her
1:29
Speaker 1: distraught mother shouting to the suspect in the courtroom, the
1:33
Speaker 1: mother of a beautiful young jogger, Carina Va Toronto, sobbing
1:39
Speaker 1: in a court of law, gripping across as the court
1:44
Speaker 1: hears how her beautiful daughter was thrown to the ground,
1:50
Speaker 1: brutally raped and then strangled in a marsh as she
1:56
Speaker 1: fought for her life, her fingernails breaking off, her teeth
2:02
Speaker 1: knocked out of her mouth, her fists clutching the grass
2:09
Speaker 1: as she tried to hold on to the spot where
2:12
Speaker 1: she was attacked and get out of that swampy marshland
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Speaker 1: where she was brutally raped and murdered. And today has
2:21
Speaker 1: it ended. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank
2:27
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Let me just say that
2:31
Speaker 1: Corina Va Toronto killer has been convicted. I spoke to
2:39
Speaker 1: Corna's father in depth, phil Va, Toronto, and the grief
2:46
Speaker 1: in his voice was overwhelming. Listen, Karna and myself, we
2:52
Speaker 1: weren't just you know, father and daughter. She would like
2:55
Speaker 1: my best friend and we did everything together, you know.
2:59
Speaker 1: She said, Daddy, I'm going to go for a run.
3:02
Speaker 1: And she asked me if I wanted to come, and
3:06
Speaker 1: I said I can't. Today, Karine because my back is hurt.
3:12
Speaker 1: And she was only gone twenty minutes when this feeling
3:18
Speaker 1: came over me, like like something was something was wrong.
3:22
Speaker 1: And my wife had just gotten home from the hospital,
3:27
Speaker 1: and she said, what's the matter, And I said, Karene
3:29
Speaker 1: is not answering her phone. And my wife didn't even
3:33
Speaker 1: know she went out for a run. So I went
3:35
Speaker 1: looking for her, and I walked the trail where we
3:39
Speaker 1: usually run. I stopped about two hundred feet from where
3:45
Speaker 1: she was because I didn't think we haven't went that far,
3:49
Speaker 1: and I turned around and I came out. I called
3:52
Speaker 1: a friend of mine in the p day and I
3:57
Speaker 1: told him Karine is missing. She answering our phone. And
4:01
Speaker 1: within fifteen minutes we had patrol. Cause within a half hour,
4:07
Speaker 1: we had helicopters, we had bloodhounds, We had three hundred
4:12
Speaker 1: people looking for her. They happened to unlock her phone.
4:18
Speaker 1: She had a fitting, you know, an Apple product, which
4:21
Speaker 1: was very difficult to unlock. But because Karina had asthma,
4:29
Speaker 1: they were able to unlock the phone and we found
4:35
Speaker 1: the location. And at ten thirty I went to where
4:40
Speaker 1: the phone was found, where the police were. There were
4:43
Speaker 1: about fifteen cops there at the time there was Bloodhounds.
4:47
Speaker 1: There was a helicopter with heat sensor on it, and
4:52
Speaker 1: I said, where's the phone and they pointed in a
4:55
Speaker 1: direction he said about fifty feet in and you know,
4:59
Speaker 1: they didn't touch the phone. They left it to CSI.
5:02
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, and that's pitch black now, and
5:05
Speaker 1: I started walking deeper into the trail, you know, just walking.
5:09
Speaker 1: And then I told myself or somebody or something told
5:14
Speaker 1: me no, So I turned around and I walked in
5:18
Speaker 1: the other direction, and I just she called me, you know,
5:23
Speaker 1: she came to me and called in. And I got
5:26
Speaker 1: to about fifty feet from where the phone was on
5:30
Speaker 1: the trail, and I just stopped. You know, there's a
5:33
Speaker 1: trail to the right and there's a trail to the left.
5:37
Speaker 1: You can go in either way, and the weeds or
5:38
Speaker 1: eight feet high, and I just stopped. I turned to
5:42
Speaker 1: my right, I looked at the weeds and I just
5:46
Speaker 1: walked in and I made her about thirty thirty five
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Speaker 1: feet and that's where she was. And I just walked
5:53
Speaker 1: into the weeds and found her. You know, she she
5:57
Speaker 1: needed her father, she needed me to find her. There's
6:02
Speaker 1: no question to justice. Scott Morgan death investigator. What this
6:07
Speaker 1: guy says in court, Chanel Lewis is so disturbing. The
6:12
Speaker 1: family heard this. They have personally reviewed his videotape confessions.
6:17
Speaker 1: He says that I was mad. I saw red. He
6:22
Speaker 1: also denies a raping her and says, I guess he
6:26
Speaker 1: says he killed her. I guess what. Somebody else raped her,
6:29
Speaker 1: and so he's gonna say that coincidently, somebody just happened
6:33
Speaker 1: to raper and then he came in and killed her.
6:35
Speaker 1: Quote he says he grabbed a toronto as she ran
6:38
Speaker 1: past him through a marshy swamp, that she clawed at
6:42
Speaker 1: his face and he hit her five times before she
6:46
Speaker 1: was knocked unconscious. Quote. She didn't yell, she was finished.
6:51
Speaker 1: I finished her off. I strangled her. She fell into
6:55
Speaker 1: the puddle and drowned, he says coldly on videotape. I
7:00
Speaker 1: got up, I wiped off the blood, and she was calm.
7:05
Speaker 1: She was in the pool of water. It was like
7:08
Speaker 1: all the way over her face, he says, of the puddle.
7:13
Speaker 1: And after telling police how he quote finished her off,
7:20
Speaker 1: he seemed to think he could pay his way out
7:24
Speaker 1: of a murder one charge. He says, quote, I can
7:26
Speaker 1: straighten out my stuff. I mean, you're the d A. Right.
7:29
Speaker 1: Where do we go from here? Is this our restitution
7:32
Speaker 1: program or something? What? Quote? I finished her off. Then
7:39
Speaker 1: he goes on Joe Scott to insist he did not
7:41
Speaker 1: molest her, even though her jogging shorts had been pulled down.
7:46
Speaker 1: I did quote. I didn't do any of the stuff
7:48
Speaker 1: they said, sex assault, stuff like that, he says. He
7:52
Speaker 1: then walked home up the bike path quote shaken up.
7:56
Speaker 1: He was shaken up, Joe Scott hoping to get Napkins
8:00
Speaker 1: to quote the bleeding from the scratches on his face.
8:02
Speaker 1: And then when he was asked why he attacked the
8:05
Speaker 1: jogger who has his name, it's Karina Betrono, he says,
8:10
Speaker 1: because the guy moved into my house and the neighborhood.
8:13
Speaker 1: He said, there's been a lot of anger. Okay, Josice
8:17
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, you have been a witness in countless cases.
8:22
Speaker 1: I don't even know how many felonies I've tried or investigated.
8:26
Speaker 1: I want to hear your thoughts on this. Let me
8:28
Speaker 1: throw you one other thing that he said as well.
8:31
Speaker 1: He's also quoted as saying, Nancy, I beat her to
8:36
Speaker 1: let my emotions out. I never really meant to hurt her.
8:40
Speaker 1: It just happened. So let me get this straight. He
8:44
Speaker 1: places himself there physically at the scene of the crime,
8:48
Speaker 1: where he apparently laid in Wait, Nancy, this is a
8:52
Speaker 1: very narrow jogging paths in a wooded area immediately adjacent
8:56
Speaker 1: to a beachside area where people take their families. This
8:59
Speaker 1: younger lived there. He's young. The lady lived there with
9:02
Speaker 1: her father, and he waited in the bushes until she
9:06
Speaker 1: jogged by, and then as he got past, as she
9:09
Speaker 1: got past his position, he attacks her while her back
9:13
Speaker 1: is to him. Then he drags her out into this
9:17
Speaker 1: marshy area. Now he says, I beat her. Let me
9:20
Speaker 1: tell you what else they're saying. She was apparently struck
9:24
Speaker 1: in the back of the head with some type of
9:26
Speaker 1: heavy object. They're thinking possibly a rock. Now I don't
9:29
Speaker 1: know this definitively, but she may very well have had
9:31
Speaker 1: a depressed skull fracture. That happens many times with these
9:34
Speaker 1: types of strikes. And then she was strangled. And he's
9:38
Speaker 1: saying that he didn't he didn't molest her at all. Nancy.
9:41
Speaker 1: You know she's wearing jogging pants. Now, as everybody can
9:44
Speaker 1: attest to jogging pants don't just spontaneously fall off. Her
9:49
Speaker 1: pants had been pulled down. This is in a very
9:52
Speaker 1: what we referred to as an asymmetrical position. She's facedown, Nancy.
9:56
Speaker 1: Can you imagine in this dirty, filthy marsh water, face down.
10:00
Speaker 1: She's been brutalized, beaten strangled, She's bruised and scratched. All
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Speaker 1: she wanted to do is go out for a job.
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Speaker 1: Her pants are down, and he, in this asymmetrical position
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Speaker 1: where he's dominant over her, finally finally just strangles out
10:19
Speaker 1: the last bit of life that she had left in her.
10:23
Speaker 1: He completely abused this woman. And to say that this
10:26
Speaker 1: wasn't sexually motivated, give me a break. It's an attack
10:29
Speaker 1: of power. He raped her and he choked her. But
10:33
Speaker 1: this we do know. He has left his DNA behind.
10:38
Speaker 1: The father of phil Vetranto led a fight to allow
10:41
Speaker 1: infamilial DNA joint to me right now, is a renowned
10:47
Speaker 1: DNA expert. It is George Skiro, director of the Skills
10:51
Speaker 1: Biological Laboratory, with over thirty years of experience as a
10:54
Speaker 1: forensic scientist and a crime scene investigator. Before I go
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Speaker 1: much further the facts, I want you to enlighten us
11:03
Speaker 1: all for those that may not be familiar with DNA
11:06
Speaker 1: deoxyribonucleic acid. Every single person has their own unique DNA.
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Speaker 1: It cannot be replicated. It's like a biological or genetic fingerprint.
11:16
Speaker 1: But what is familial DNA? George? Because they tried, and
11:23
Speaker 1: they tried, and they tried, they took the DNA off
11:27
Speaker 1: her body, George, and compared it to CODIS, which was
11:32
Speaker 1: the nationwide data bank of DNA. No matches, so it
11:36
Speaker 1: looked as if it wasn't anybody that had a record.
11:39
Speaker 1: They couldn't find the purp. It was excruciating, George. What
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Speaker 1: is familial DNA? Well, thank you for having me, Nancy
11:48
Speaker 1: familiar with DNA searching is where a database is searched,
11:52
Speaker 1: a database of DNA profiles. It searched to determine if
11:56
Speaker 1: there are any close matches that could have maybe come
11:59
Speaker 1: from a potential family member of a of a perpetrator
12:03
Speaker 1: of a crime, to see if there if a link
12:05
Speaker 1: could be made that way. Then if there's a potential
12:08
Speaker 1: link made that way, and if it's a fairly strong
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Speaker 1: familiar DNA match, what they'll then do is get a
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Speaker 1: DNA sample directly from that individual to compare directly to
12:17
Speaker 1: yet crime stories with Nancy Grace. Channel Lewis, the twenty
12:44
Speaker 1: one year old man charged in the brutal rate and
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Speaker 1: strangulation of Karena Vatranto. How did he Channel Lewis get caught?
12:56
Speaker 1: How is he identified? Because while I got DNA from
13:00
Speaker 1: Arena's body, it didn't match up to anyone. Philip Vatronto
13:05
Speaker 1: had been waging a campaign to convince New York state
13:07
Speaker 1: authorities to allow investigators to use familial DNA techniques to
13:13
Speaker 1: identify a suspect. It wasn't used in the state up
13:16
Speaker 1: to that point, but just before their decision to allow
13:19
Speaker 1: it came, Lewis was arrested. He was eventually caught by
13:23
Speaker 1: good old fashioned police work, which eventually identified him as
13:28
Speaker 1: a person of interest because he had been in the park.
13:30
Speaker 1: Once he was identified, detectives were able to get a
13:33
Speaker 1: DNA sample. They matched it up to some DNA found
13:36
Speaker 1: on Coarina's body, and once in custom and once in custody,
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Speaker 1: they got that confession on tape with me right now,
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Speaker 1: Phil Vatrono, who I consider to be a colleague and
13:48
Speaker 1: a friend. Karina's father, Phil, you know it hurts me
13:53
Speaker 1: sometimes and I know that some police make horrible mistakes
13:58
Speaker 1: and do horrible things, but police, prosecutors, judges are some
14:04
Speaker 1: of the most honorable people I've ever met. And yes,
14:08
Speaker 1: I know mistakes happened, but nobody ever seems to notice
14:15
Speaker 1: when they do something so incredibly right as you just said.
14:20
Speaker 1: They went through hundreds and hundreds of potential suspects, and
14:25
Speaker 1: even though you were one of their brothers, they looked
14:28
Speaker 1: at you. Of course they did. You saw her last,
14:30
Speaker 1: you found her body or her father. You're one of
14:32
Speaker 1: the closest people in the world to her. Of course
14:35
Speaker 1: they looked at you, but you knew that going into it.
14:38
Speaker 1: You knew they look at you. And instead of dodging it,
14:43
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, here I am, take my DNA, do
14:46
Speaker 1: whatever you have to until you find the person that
14:48
Speaker 1: took my daughter's life. They took my daughter's funeral, my
14:54
Speaker 1: daughter's funeral who detectives approached me and said, we would
14:57
Speaker 1: like to take a swab from you. And we took
15:01
Speaker 1: me into a back room and I said, you can
15:04
Speaker 1: take whatever you need. If you need to take my
15:06
Speaker 1: right arm, you take my right arm, I'll give you
15:09
Speaker 1: whatever you ask for. And they swabbed me at my
15:12
Speaker 1: daughter's funeral. Phil, I never knew that. I did not
15:17
Speaker 1: know that. I'm just you know, taking in what you
15:23
Speaker 1: have just said to me, but joining me right now,
15:27
Speaker 1: Prosecutor Kenya Johnson. That's the reality of prosecution. You can't
15:32
Speaker 1: spare any body's feelings and feel the Toronto's right. Everybody
15:37
Speaker 1: as a suspect until you get a conviction. Every single
15:41
Speaker 1: person is a suspect. You can't leave any stone unturned.
15:45
Speaker 1: You have to ask questions of everyone because you never
15:48
Speaker 1: know when you can get that nugget that will lead
15:51
Speaker 1: to another road. As far as the investigation, and when
15:55
Speaker 1: it comes to juries, juries are just to ask questionable
15:58
Speaker 1: as well. Them with their own baggage, their history, their
16:04
Speaker 1: education and sometimes yours just will not put two and
16:07
Speaker 1: two together, or even in the face of obvious evidence,
16:11
Speaker 1: they still have a problem to convict. And so a
16:14
Speaker 1: jury selection process is more so an elimination process where
16:19
Speaker 1: we ask questions to try to get out people that
16:21
Speaker 1: have certain biases, but certain things slipped by, and you
16:24
Speaker 1: just never know what people are holding back or what
16:27
Speaker 1: their preconceived notions are and whether they could even send
16:30
Speaker 1: someone to jail. So even after you've created the case
16:33
Speaker 1: and you've done this great investigation and you present it,
16:37
Speaker 1: you still have that final frontier of getting before and
16:41
Speaker 1: convincing every single person. And that's a challenge. And phil question,
16:45
Speaker 1: did you get to sit in the trial the whole
16:49
Speaker 1: time or did they sequester you, make you right outside
16:54
Speaker 1: because you would be a witness. Yes, I had to
16:56
Speaker 1: sit through. I couldn't go into the courtroom until I testified,
17:02
Speaker 1: so I couldn't be at jury selection. I couldn't be
17:05
Speaker 1: at the first two days of witness testimony. Only after
17:09
Speaker 1: I testified. I was allowed, you know, to sit in court.
17:14
Speaker 1: When you were sitting in court listening to testimony come
17:18
Speaker 1: from the witness stand, what sticks out in your mind?
17:22
Speaker 1: How professional and how thorough everyone was. The police officers,
17:30
Speaker 1: the detectives, the the m E, the DNA experts, the
17:37
Speaker 1: phone searches. Everything was done so perfectly and so professionally
17:45
Speaker 1: and without bias. There would be no question as to
17:52
Speaker 1: any kind of corruptness or mistakes that were made, because
17:57
Speaker 1: they were none. His miranda rights were written, were given
18:02
Speaker 1: to him multiple times, multiple times on video. He was
18:09
Speaker 1: told when they went to swab him why he was
18:13
Speaker 1: being swabbed. He was being swabbed in connection with the
18:18
Speaker 1: murder case of Karnavatrano, and will you be willing to
18:23
Speaker 1: give DNA swab And there's a consent form that he
18:29
Speaker 1: was read, and then he read himself, and then he signed,
18:33
Speaker 1: and then he gave his own DNA swab. He swabbed
18:38
Speaker 1: his own cheek, took the Q tip, put it into
18:41
Speaker 1: the vial seal the bag, and that's how everything was done.
18:47
Speaker 1: There were no mistakes made here. George Skiro, I know
18:51
Speaker 1: you're the director at the Skills Biological Laboratory, but could
18:55
Speaker 1: you please explain to me the significance of the DNA
19:01
Speaker 1: in this case? Well, in this case, according to what
19:05
Speaker 1: I've read the there was DNA from Lewis found on
19:09
Speaker 1: her cell phone and on her back. And what's been reported,
19:11
Speaker 1: it's been reported as a match, and a match usually
19:14
Speaker 1: indicates a single source. And then what will happen is
19:18
Speaker 1: whenever there's an inclusion or a match, we have to
19:21
Speaker 1: give a statistical weight to it. And in this case,
19:24
Speaker 1: the statistical weight will probably be in the trillions, perhaps
19:28
Speaker 1: quadrillions if it's a complete match, meaning that with the
19:32
Speaker 1: exception of a possible identical twin that that that Chanel
19:37
Speaker 1: Lewis is the source of that DNA sample on the
19:40
Speaker 1: back end the cell phone with me right now, Phil
19:43
Speaker 1: the Toronto who I consider to be a colleague and
19:47
Speaker 1: a friend Karina's father. Phil, question the moment, not the moment,
19:54
Speaker 1: but very shortly after Karina went jogging this one day
19:59
Speaker 1: out of a million that you did not go with her,
20:02
Speaker 1: you immediately started having premonitions for botting something was wrong,
20:08
Speaker 1: to the point where you acted on them. As I
20:11
Speaker 1: believe your wife started calling her. You started calling her,
20:14
Speaker 1: you went out, started looking for her. Since she has
20:19
Speaker 1: gone to heaven, do you feel that she has tried
20:23
Speaker 1: to reach you? Absolutely, she is everywhere. I don't know
20:28
Speaker 1: if there's different levels of angels, but my daughter is
20:31
Speaker 1: extremely powerful. She shows herself to us in many ways,
20:38
Speaker 1: many ways. Yes, she is around us, and we communicate
20:44
Speaker 1: with her the way we normally do, and she communicates
20:48
Speaker 1: back in angelic form one way or another, in signs,
20:53
Speaker 1: in sounds, in many ways. Now, Phil, I know this
20:58
Speaker 1: is very personal, but it would mean a lot to
21:01
Speaker 1: me and it would mean a lot to our listeners
21:06
Speaker 1: who have been thinking of you and Kathy and praying
21:10
Speaker 1: for you since the very beginning. Can you tell us
21:15
Speaker 1: about any communication that you've had with Karina that is
21:21
Speaker 1: too personal, that is too personal. There are certain instances,
21:25
Speaker 1: I mean, she has shown herself many ways in different
21:31
Speaker 1: forms and purple light that show up at the memorial
21:35
Speaker 1: purple orbs. But as far as direct communication, as far
21:41
Speaker 1: as whatever they call it when someone comes to you
21:48
Speaker 1: you know through the spirit life, those are personal and
21:52
Speaker 1: that is just between me and my family. But she
21:55
Speaker 1: has come. Well, I will tell you this, and I
22:00
Speaker 1: get it. I can tell you this, And all the
22:03
Speaker 1: years since my fiance Keith was murdered, all the years
22:08
Speaker 1: he was murdered in nineteen seventy nine, I know for
22:12
Speaker 1: a fact that he has communicated with me twice, once
22:19
Speaker 1: immediately after his murder, in the days following it, and
22:24
Speaker 1: then it took almost twenty five years after that. And
22:31
Speaker 1: because of that communication, it changed my life. Phil I
22:37
Speaker 1: married and was just under the line to have children,
22:46
Speaker 1: And if I had not listened to Keith, I don't
22:50
Speaker 1: know what my life would be like now. So of
22:53
Speaker 1: course I know you. I haven't had the pleasure to
22:57
Speaker 1: know Kathy yet, but I know what you're telling me
23:01
Speaker 1: is true. And you listen to her. Oh, I know
23:04
Speaker 1: you will. All I can say is that I to
23:10
Speaker 1: say I'm happy isn't correct. I guess I'm relieved with
23:16
Speaker 1: the verdict and hopeful, hopeful for you and Cathy starting
23:22
Speaker 1: another part of your life. And I guess I'm grateful.
23:29
Speaker 1: How would you describe how you feel? Pretty much the
23:33
Speaker 1: same we are. We relieved that we no longer have
23:37
Speaker 1: to go this, go through this agony of sitting in
23:42
Speaker 1: a courtroom on a daily basis, looking at him and
23:48
Speaker 1: you know, hearing you know, other people with their opinions
23:56
Speaker 1: and which nothing more than opinions, and I'm based on
23:58
Speaker 1: any kind of fact. And we don't even know where
24:04
Speaker 1: we're going to proceed from here, because for two and
24:06
Speaker 1: a half years we've just been waiting for what happened Monday,
24:11
Speaker 1: for a guilty version. And that that I am grateful for.
24:23
Speaker 1: There aren't too many things in life that I can
24:26
Speaker 1: say bring me joy and happiness other than my grandson.
24:34
Speaker 1: But we're not joyful, but we are grateful for that conviction,
24:43
Speaker 1: and it does give us the opportunity to move forward.
24:47
Speaker 1: I don't know what direction, but we're moving forward, you know, Phil,
24:54
Speaker 1: I just want you to know how much you have
25:01
Speaker 1: given an example to me, and you have renewed my
25:07
Speaker 1: inspiration to keep fighting for crime victims and your role
25:12
Speaker 1: model for so many people and parents out there that
25:16
Speaker 1: have lost their child or people that have lost their
25:20
Speaker 1: loved one to violent crime. You have no idea how
25:26
Speaker 1: you and your wife and your demeanor and your behavior
25:29
Speaker 1: from day one have inspired so many And if you
25:35
Speaker 1: don't know already, let me be the first to tell
25:37
Speaker 1: you you have changed the world. Our prayers go on
25:44
Speaker 1: Nancy to hear that, and that would be what Karina
25:54
Speaker 1: would want. That's what you would want for us to
25:58
Speaker 1: be civil and helpful and to help people. Would that
26:07
Speaker 1: would be what Karina would want. I know that, and
26:10
Speaker 1: I thank you and you have been an inspiration to me.
26:16
Speaker 1: And I just want to ask you if is anything
26:20
Speaker 1: you would like to ask Cathy at this point in time. Wow, Cathete,
26:26
Speaker 1: I had never thought that I would get to speak
26:30
Speaker 1: to you today, and you know so many secrets in
26:36
Speaker 1: your heart and you've been through so much. What message
26:42
Speaker 1: do you want to give our listeners today with me?
26:45
Speaker 1: Is Karina Vitronto's mom, Cathy, what would you tell our listeners? Um? Well,
26:52
Speaker 1: I think you and Phil covered so many things that
27:00
Speaker 1: were necessary and that we would like to convey. So
27:06
Speaker 1: basically my main message right now is to I want
27:13
Speaker 1: that jury to get my message of gratitude beyond you
27:19
Speaker 1: know that, beyond belief, beyond mere words can express that
27:26
Speaker 1: on this day is the message that I really want conveyed.
27:32
Speaker 1: There are so many things, so many things that I
27:37
Speaker 1: want the world to know about Karna and about the
27:41
Speaker 1: things that I've learned through this trial that are not
27:45
Speaker 1: pleasant and that are not right. But that's a different form. Well,
27:52
Speaker 1: I know one thing Karina is smiling down on you
27:57
Speaker 1: and feel with so much, you know when you you know.
28:02
Speaker 1: The h that I could even speak right now is
28:09
Speaker 1: because of the the majesty of God and the breasting
28:20
Speaker 1: that he has imposed. I believe to Karina to be
28:26
Speaker 1: able to reach us as she has, because I am
28:29
Speaker 1: really sure, just as you spoke about your with your fiance,
28:36
Speaker 1: I have been reassured that Karina is here in a
28:42
Speaker 1: different way, and that there is God and that she
28:47
Speaker 1: is with God, and that someday we will all be
28:50
Speaker 1: together again. And that's the only thing that has been
28:55
Speaker 1: able to help me to start functioning again because really,
29:01
Speaker 1: I was unfunctionable for a very long time. Well, the
29:05
Speaker 1: two of you really personify one of my faithful one
29:12
Speaker 1: of my favorite verses out of Timothy and it is
29:17
Speaker 1: fight the good, Fight strong to the end. Crime stories
29:30
Speaker 1: with Nancy, Grace, shock and sadnesses. People in one community
29:38
Speaker 1: learned their neighbor did not die of old age, reportedly
29:41
Speaker 1: killed by his own daughters. TBC Action Who's report of
29:44
Speaker 1: Michael plusko with why some of them are always suspicious
29:46
Speaker 1: even when deputies were not. The sheriff told us would
29:49
Speaker 1: happen inside this home was the perfect murder, and he
29:51
Speaker 1: told us that those sisters would have gotten away with
29:54
Speaker 1: killing their father if they just would have stayed quiet.
29:56
Speaker 1: Four years ago, on March sixth of twenty fifteen, his neighbor,
30:00
Speaker 1: Anthony Thomas Selly's death was not from natural causes. A
30:03
Speaker 1: buzzley guy. I heard people say that he just went
30:05
Speaker 1: downhill really fast. Guys, you could have fooled me saying
30:10
Speaker 1: something like that with him, Yeah, downhill really fast, you know,
30:13
Speaker 1: with a little helping hand from his own daughters. You
30:16
Speaker 1: just heard from our friend at w FTSTV Tampa anchor
30:19
Speaker 1: Jamison Uller talking about the death of an eighty five
30:23
Speaker 1: year old dad, Anthony Thomas Selly. But he's dead and
30:27
Speaker 1: now the sisters are suspected in his murder. All Star
30:33
Speaker 1: panel doctor Michelle Dupretty, medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation
30:38
Speaker 1: Field Guide, Renown's like Hoe Analyst's talk to Bethany Marshall
30:41
Speaker 1: out of Hollywood. Karen Smith, renowned forensics expert. Ashy Wilcott,
30:47
Speaker 1: judge lawyer anchor. You can find her at ashe Wilcott
30:50
Speaker 1: dot com. Joining me right now. Syndicated talk show host
30:53
Speaker 1: Dave mac Dave Matt, I don't get it if I
30:56
Speaker 1: could have one day back with my dad, one day
31:00
Speaker 1: that I give everything I've got except the children. Of course,
31:04
Speaker 1: David is in jeopardy on that one. Here's a catch
31:06
Speaker 1: and the reason they initially ruled this to have been
31:09
Speaker 1: from natural causes. Anthony Thomas Ellie, at eighty five, was
31:12
Speaker 1: suffering from cancer, He had dementia, he had some heart problems.
31:15
Speaker 1: Even a minute, Wait a minute, who says he had dementia?
31:19
Speaker 1: His two murderous daughters, Linda Robertson Mary Beth Thomas Elli, Well,
31:22
Speaker 1: it was actually his regular physician is the one that
31:26
Speaker 1: declared him dead from natural causes. That's why they almost
31:29
Speaker 1: got away with murder Nancy because the setup was there. Now,
31:33
Speaker 1: both of these women, Mary fast Thomas Elli who's sixty three,
31:35
Speaker 1: and Linda Roberts is sixty one, are just evil with
31:38
Speaker 1: the capital E. Bottom line. They described it as ethan
31:41
Speaker 1: asia and the only reason they got caught is because
31:45
Speaker 1: they just had to talk about it. And by the way,
31:47
Speaker 1: both girls are both women ended up dating the same
31:51
Speaker 1: man that they met at a bar. That's who they
31:53
Speaker 1: told the story too. Oh my stars, you know, Ashley Willcott,
32:00
Speaker 1: you just know it. Here they are Mary Beth Thomas
32:02
Speaker 1: Elly sixty three, Linda Roberts sixty one, blabbing trying to
32:07
Speaker 1: snare the same guy. I mean, why bother? I mean,
32:10
Speaker 1: at that point, do you need another man in your life?
32:14
Speaker 1: Another one? They had to brag like that would make
32:18
Speaker 1: them more attractive to the guy they murdered somebody. Well, again,
32:22
Speaker 1: I think that that's attributing rational thought to two very
32:24
Speaker 1: irrational criminals. And so the fact of the matter is,
32:27
Speaker 1: if they're going to kill somebody in the first place,
32:29
Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me at all. But then they choose
32:31
Speaker 1: to brag about it. So why do you say, Dave Mack.
32:34
Speaker 1: They almost got away with the quote perfect crime, and
32:37
Speaker 1: it ain't so perfect to me. Well, that's exactly how
32:39
Speaker 1: the sheriff described this. Now here's what they actually did. Nancy,
32:42
Speaker 1: eighty five year old dad in bad health. They both
32:45
Speaker 1: claimed that he would not go to an extend one
32:48
Speaker 1: of the not hospice care, but you know the kind
32:50
Speaker 1: of extended living that senior citizens go to sometimes before
32:53
Speaker 1: they passed. They said he did not want to do that.
32:56
Speaker 1: They were tired of taking care of him what it
32:57
Speaker 1: amounted to. So what they did, they actually had a
33:01
Speaker 1: plan that they were going to actually at first just
33:04
Speaker 1: drug him with an alcoholic drink with some sleeping pills.
33:08
Speaker 1: But there was too much alcohol and it broke down
33:10
Speaker 1: the sleeping pills and they didn't work. So and that
33:12
Speaker 1: didn't happen. They tried, they tried to suffocate him with
33:16
Speaker 1: a pillow on the couch, but they weren't strong enough.
33:19
Speaker 1: He was too strong. Now that's how bad off this
33:21
Speaker 1: guy was. He was strong enough to fight off two
33:23
Speaker 1: younger women who were trying to suffocate him with a pillow.
33:26
Speaker 1: He was able to fight back from that. When that
33:28
Speaker 1: didn't work, one of the sisters held his arms at
33:31
Speaker 1: his side, and they crammed a dirty rag down the
33:34
Speaker 1: man's throat and pinched his nose until he died. Oh
33:37
Speaker 1: my stars, Doctor Bethany Marshall, help me out before I
33:43
Speaker 1: get into the rag down the throat and they pinched nose.
33:47
Speaker 1: In my mind I thought that they had drugged him.
33:51
Speaker 1: But that is a violent death. But doctor Bethany, I
33:55
Speaker 1: want to go back to you. Why are these two
33:57
Speaker 1: trying to impress a man at a bar that they
33:59
Speaker 1: both want to leap with by telling him they both
34:02
Speaker 1: were they fighting for credit that they kill their father.
34:06
Speaker 1: I mean, well, how is that supposed to impress a guy?
34:08
Speaker 1: He probably thinks, gee, I guess I'm next. I'm sure
34:11
Speaker 1: it would take a drink they offered me, you know, Nancy,
34:13
Speaker 1: I think that I have a scenario I've seen in
34:16
Speaker 1: my practice quite a bit in my psychology practice. Adults
34:19
Speaker 1: coming in who are preoccupied with his parents, and they
34:23
Speaker 1: are preoccupied with their parents' money, so they're like, hey,
34:27
Speaker 1: my my dad has three hundred thousand dollars. But doctor Bethanie,
34:30
Speaker 1: there's a big difference. In my mind, they're both evil,
34:33
Speaker 1: But to give somebody sleeping pills and alcohol, and then
34:37
Speaker 1: having the wherewithal to hold your own father's arms down
34:42
Speaker 1: while the other sisters stuff so rag down his throat
34:45
Speaker 1: and pinches his nose. I mean, that's a whole other
34:48
Speaker 1: level of depravity. Yes, it is. But they probably had
34:52
Speaker 1: toxic hatred for him. They were angry at him for
34:56
Speaker 1: wanting to go to a retirement facility. They felt that
34:58
Speaker 1: he was going to spend all the family resources, and
35:01
Speaker 1: they wanted to get rid of him at any cost
35:03
Speaker 1: so that they could have the money for themselves. He
35:05
Speaker 1: is such a big motivator of hanifide. It's that's a
35:09
Speaker 1: motivation we always have to look at, and I think
35:12
Speaker 1: that's why they tainously, Nancy. They put a pillow over
35:15
Speaker 1: his face, and when that didn't work, they put the
35:18
Speaker 1: rag down his throat and pinched his nostrils for what
35:21
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Well, what does that
35:24
Speaker 1: say to you about their motivation, the fact that they
35:26
Speaker 1: would try three different ways to kill that is not
35:30
Speaker 1: just for the money, but they hated their dad. Well,
35:32
Speaker 1: of course, the man they're trying to impress at the
35:35
Speaker 1: bar went immediately to police, and not that quickly. He
35:41
Speaker 1: was quote romantically involved with him. I think he had
35:44
Speaker 1: sex with both of them, but he goes to police
35:46
Speaker 1: and reported after what they said. And I don't understand
35:50
Speaker 1: what they hope to gain from him by telling him this.
35:56
Speaker 1: This is why I said they were preoccupied with hatred
35:59
Speaker 1: towards the dad. They even after they killed him, they
36:02
Speaker 1: still couldn't stop thinking about this. The profile of the
36:06
Speaker 1: adult child who stalks the parent for money. I'm telling you, Nancy,
36:10
Speaker 1: I have seen it in my practice. It does happen.
36:13
Speaker 1: Kids can become preoccupied with trying to get things from
36:18
Speaker 1: the parent, and when they want to get things from
36:20
Speaker 1: the parent, that's all they can think about. So I
36:22
Speaker 1: would imagine that the story was still going on. Was
36:25
Speaker 1: there a property they were trying to sell. I wouldn't
36:28
Speaker 1: be surprised if they were talking about this, because they
36:30
Speaker 1: still hope to gain something financially from the father. Nancy
36:36
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories, signing off Goodbye friend,