Latest / More Than Before / Face the Mountain: w/ Paul Gustavson

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Face the Mountain: w/ Paul Gustavson · More Than Before

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Hey everyone, imagine surviving A mudslide, a mountain fall, a
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near plane crash, then going to lead a 450 person tech company
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shaping the future of innovation.
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That's my guest today. He's the Co founder and CTO of
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simventions, author of Breaking Average and his new book Face
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the Mountain. He is a leader who believes in
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people, that they are the heart of innovation.
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Stick around because his story will challenge you to rethink
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resilience, leadership, and what it truly means to be more than
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before. Paul Gustafson, welcome to the
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show, my brother. It is so good to have you on.
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Nathan, thank you. Thanks for the intro.
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Great to be on with you and with your guests.
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And you know, yeah, how are you doing, man?
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I'm doing great. You know, it's been a, it's been
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an interesting past week with, with everything going on
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nationally, there's a lot of heat in the nation and there's a
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lot of discussion. But you know, what's really
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interesting is through my time of reflection, it really has
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been a time of reflection of faith, of where does my faith
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stand and, and what goes before me and what will trail behind
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me. I'm excited to get into your
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story today because I think there are a lot of things in
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your story that will really help people right now who are
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searching really for that next step of what they should be
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doing with their life. I feel like you are very self
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reflective. You, you spent a lot of time
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reflecting on where you've been, but also as an innovator, you
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really do like to cast vision, not only for your life, but for
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other people of, of where to go next.
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So before we jump into maybe even where you are today,
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actually let's start there because sometimes, sometimes I
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get so, so far into the, the beginning of things, I forget to
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talk about where we are today. You actually Co founded, started
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its invention. Tell everyone a little bit about
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what that is and and what does that mean in terms of leadership
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and what you do today. Oh, yeah, for sure.
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Thank you. Yeah.
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So, you know, when I was in college, kind of I'll start
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there. I think I, I had this
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aspiration, this dream, this vision of one day, you know,
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being an entrepreneur, being a business guy.
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And you kind of park it, right, Because, you know, you got to
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graduate, you got to get through school, you got to get through
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those classes. And, you know, I had some
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challenges even in college and, you know, obviously I got
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through that. And then, but I still had this
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dream kind of parked off to the side hoping, hoping for that one
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day. And I thought, you know, OK, I
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don't know when I'm going to do that.
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Some other things percolated. Obviously you develop
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relationships with other folks. And as we're kind of grooming
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some ideas and pushing those forward, I just posed a question
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with, with a colleague who actually I, I was reporting to,
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we were working on some projects together.
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And I said, you know, how cool would it be?
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I don't know. Do you ever have an aspiration
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to start a business, to build a business based on biblical
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principles and just go after something?
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And he said, funny you mention that I was talking to Steve.
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He asked the same question today.
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I'm like, what? And I knew Steve pretty well as
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well. So the three of us got together
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and I said, hey, look, Microsoft's coming out with
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something really kind of weird. Cool.
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Maybe, you know, maybe we can take some of our skills and, and
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do it, do something with that. And I said, well, what is it?
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And I said this thing called Xbox, Nathan, you probably have
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heard of that. So we got, we're a part of the
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Xbox incubator program really on, you know, before the Xbox
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even came out. So we got, so I tried to sharpen
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up my skills and do some stuff there and we were doing some
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things there and then simulations and graphics and we
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had this game idea. And so we pursued it.
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We also had a relationship with Kodak.
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So early on, our business started off kind of from a
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commercial standpoint and it was nights and weekends, Nathan,
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that's what we did because we didn't want to, We got, we all
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had kids, right? And so we're just trying to do
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by day what we were hired to do, but also latch on to this dream
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that three of us had. And like, you know, when it, why
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not, you know, all three of us. Let's, let's just do this.
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So nights and weekends started working at Kodak Software for
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them, something called Photo Visor.
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We did websites, a few, a few of those and that paid for a trip
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for us to go out to GDC, which is the Game Developers
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Conference in 2001. And I forget when it was, what
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type of year it was, but we had a chance to sit down with
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Microsoft. We were working on that project
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with them called The Dokian. So if you ever see a video game
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called The Dokian, it wasn't us. I'll tell you why it it was, it
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was a fun project. It was this underground
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labyrinth cool video concept that we're working on, but it
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was a concept we didn't have a playable version yet.
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And so we sat down with Microsoft and they're kind to us
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and they said, well, this is cool, but you know what?
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Unless we can play it, we can't, we can't buy it.
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We can't, we're not going to be able to go forward with this.
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We need something demonstratable, playable.
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And at that time, game engines were really expensive and we
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just didn't have the funds to do it.
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But at least it was kind of a learning experience, learned a
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lot about that kind of world. We didn't give up on that
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initially, but then 9/11 happened.
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So recently we just celebrated. And I hate to say that word
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celebrated. It doesn't sound right.
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We just remembered. Maybe it's a remembrance, 24
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years of 911. That day kind of really marked
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our direction because while we were doing a lot of software and
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doing some really cool stuff, we couldn't strap on boots and
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throw, you know, go out there in harm's way and and really defend
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our nation. But we had this calling.
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We felt like, wait a minute. We've been kind of in this space
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of defense for a long time. And maybe maybe our best bet
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here in terms of who we are and what we need to do is, is to
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serve the world fighter and the decision makers, because that
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freedom is precious, you know, and, and it's not free, even
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though it's freedom. You know, there's, there's a
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sacrifices that aren't men and women in the services are
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making, but also those, you know, supporting them with
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different tools and technologies and applications and without
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that's the shift we need. Let's make that direction.
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And we did. And, and so we've been running
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ever since. So we went from 3:00 to 4:00 to
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now we're 450 employees about so.
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That's. Crazy God's been good and so
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we're we're thankful for that. But that's the story of some
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inventions I. Love it.
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It was, it's so cool to see. You know, I, I find that a lot,
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especially with people who are entrepreneurs.
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I was just hearing this recently from another entrepreneur that
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if you, if you haven't reinvented what you're doing,
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you're not an entrepreneur yet. There's, there's always a
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constant tweaking. There's always something that
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kind of changes and being willing to actually shift and
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innovate. And you know, we've, we've used
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that word innovate or I have used that word a lot so far as
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as we've been talking. But I'm curious, have you always
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been an innovator? Like who were who was Paul as a
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kid? Yeah, that's a great question.
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You know, I don't know when the word innovation really became
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that term for for us as a society and for me personally,
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it's a cool word. I love it.
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It's one of my favorite words, but.
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You know, maybe a creative. Yeah, I mean, certainly when I
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was a kid, you know, I'm AI was a Lego kid, right?
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I, I give me the Legos, I'd get up at 6:00 in the morning, turn
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on Spider Man that, you know, just the cartoon.
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It's not the same version that you see today.
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It's so much better now. But I I kicked that on because I
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would want to watch it at six. AMI was always an early riser
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and I would I would just get going, playing with the Legos
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and creating stuff. Yeah, I remember that.
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So I would say innovation. There's a part where you pull
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back, Nathan, there's a part where you're you are creative,
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but then you see other kids that are creative and you're like,
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well, that's not me, right? I can't draw.
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I can't do those kind of things that they're doing.
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And so you, you kind of peel back and a few years ago I did
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some, obviously I wrote another book called Imagine.
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And when I wrote Imagine, which which is probably the most
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fascinating element of all of this, right?
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And I can unpack that story a little bit, but I did some
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research on our imagination. And you know that the peak of
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our imagination is between someone.
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You're obviously when you're born, you're trying to figure
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things out and you, they actually measure the prefrontal
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frontal cortex in terms of brain activity related to imagination.
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And it, it starts to climb, as you know, as a young kid to
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about 12 years old at 12, it's the peak when you're 12, then it
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after 12, it starts to slide down.
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And then it gets to this kind of resting point.
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I call it the point of, of, of really it opportunity to break
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average, right. You know, you mentioned the word
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breaking average. I think of that line a lot like
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breaking averages to get above that line because mediocrity and
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just status quo thinking, you know, it just keeps us going
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what we normally do, but innovative thinking is going to
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push us like, OK, great, I could do that, but what could I do
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more? And so when we're young, we
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actually start to think in an innovative sense, especially by
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the time we're 12. And then we start to believe
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that now we don't have what it takes.
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We're not creative, we can't do this.
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And then we kind of plateau for years and it just bumps up here
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and there. Maybe when we start playing with
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our kids, we get a little creative again, But but
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otherwise, it's just stays there until close to the end of life.
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There's this kind of peak that that perks back up.
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You know, I'm like, wow, that's interesting.
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Why is that? You know, most of those,
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especially a personal faith, they're probably getting excited
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about their next home, right? Because they they believe in it,
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eternal life, which is cool. And they're excited about
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potentially seeing a loved one that they've lost or I'm not
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sure why, but it does kind of go back up.
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Not to the level of 12 years old, though.
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Yeah. So I think the challenge for all
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of us is to think innovatively. We we probably need to get back
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to that 12 year old self and be willing to try and take risks
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again. And just because it's not as
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good as somebody else's, because Sally's drawing is better than
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yours, doesn't mean that you shouldn't take that, that risk
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and that that step forward. So just keep being creative.
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It's OK. Fail fast, right?
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Failing is the ultimate way to learn.
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And it it really is and it will and maybe even adding one more
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step that because a lot of people fail and don't learn.
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And so that reflective base to make sure you don't go back into
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the cycle of constantly, you know, going back and doing the
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same thing over and over. You know, we know we know that
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definition from Einstein, but there really is a key of life of
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having curiosity. What was what was your dream as
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a young boy? What did what did you dream of
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doing becoming? Was it, was it the astronaut?
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Was it, you know, was it the drummer?
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Like what? What was what was in Paul's mind
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as a as a young boy? Oh, yeah, great question.
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You know, it's funny and all these interviews, nobody's ever
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asked that question, but it's a good one because we do think
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about those things. Like what did I want to be when
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I was younger? I, my dad was a Navy guy, all
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right, So I was born in Illinois.
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I don't remember much of that. A few stories.
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We moved to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
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I lived in Rio and I remember the first cool Christmas present
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I got was an astronaut helmet. And I would just wear that every
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day, right? So Legos and astronauts, right?
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I mean, right. But I also was, you know, I love
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sports, Nathan. I loved sports.
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So I I played just about every sport I could that that I was
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allowed to play. I never played.
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I never played football. I played the other kind of
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football, a lot of soccer. But but I always wanted to play
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football. It's just that my parents
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thought, Oh, that's, that's going to be a little bit too,
13:04
too brutal for you. And they're probably right.
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You know, you can see all these, you know, we just got done with
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the weekends worth of football and you see a lot of injuries
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and things like that. And but nonetheless, I love
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sports. So I think my aspiration was to
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be a professional athlete, you know, go that direction.
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And then my dad being military, I kind of was interested in that
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as well. Yes, those things.
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I love that because it kind of crescendos throughout your life,
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you know, going throughout your life, there's, there, there are
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hints of all these pieces, you know, you know, as an astronaut,
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it's, it's, it's breaking average.
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It's, it's getting out of the atmosphere.
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It's, it's using innovation, you know, especially as you look at
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someone like an Elon Musk of what they're doing of, of, of
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challenging what the status quo of what we know is possible.
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So it's, it's actually quite remarkable because in some
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senses, you know, maybe you're not floating around in space or
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I don't know, maybe you're going to go out to the space station
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one day, Paul. But it, it is really remarkable
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to hear some of that stuff because there is some alignment
14:08
with a lot of the stuff, you know, you may not be in space,
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but you know, cyber warfare where a lot of that is actually
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taking place from, from a, from a, a space perspective is, is
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quite fascinating. What were you, what were you
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like in terms of socialization as a child?
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Because I find were you like the outgoing kind of sports person
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that you know you'd shine or were you kind of more of the
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team player? Interesting question.
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I would think, you know, in in the elements of areas of
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passion, I was fine socially, not a not a problem at all.
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But other times I was kind of that quiet kid in the corner, to
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be honest with you. But if I was out on the field
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just enjoying playing with, you know, my team mates and then I
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ran track in college, high school and a little bit in
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college. I really enjoy connecting with
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with other folks there. So it depended upon the
15:08
situation. Obviously, I was a churchgoer as
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well. So Sundays were filled in the
15:15
morning and the evening. But I'll be honest with you,
15:18
man, Sunday night we would go to church and I was just itching to
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come home. It was, I wanted to watch and
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I'm dating myself so you guys will know how old I am.
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I, I, I wanted to get home to watch the $6 million man.
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That's what I wanted to see. All right?
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I wanted to see the bionic man, right?
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Because that's the kind of stuff that fascinated me.
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And, and you know, my friends, if they were drawn into that,
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that was cool. I always enjoyed having spending
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time with friends, but also when I was 13, I sat down again.
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I'm dating myself. But do you remember the 1980
15:57
Olympics at least remember hearing about it.
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OK. And everybody thinks, oh, yeah.
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Lake Placid, the the the hockey. Yes, that was phenomenal.
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Miracle on Ice. But for me, the magical moment
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Nathan was watching two brothers ski for the for Team USA, Phil
16:17
and Steve Mayer. Now they're they're kind of near
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you. I think you're in the West.
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You're northwest, right? Yeah.
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Portland. Area so you should reach out to
16:26
these guys. They're still still going, but
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Phil and Steve Mayer and they had a chance for a medal for USA
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and they were going against Inglemars, Denmark, right.
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He was the best slalom skier in the world.
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Now, unfortunately, Steve had already been knocked out.
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He was eliminated, but Phil was still in it and had a chance for
16:47
a medal. And so we're kind of tuned in
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the whole family. We got the popcorn popped, we
16:53
got we're just eating Cheez, its whatever Cheetos and we're just
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watching this. This is like almost the last
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sports activity of that 1980 Winter Olympics in Lake Placid.
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And just now here's the truth of it.
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It wasn't live, it was ABC. And back in the day, you would
17:12
watch sports and it was always a, a delayed broadcast wasn't
17:17
like typically what we see today.
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So but for us, it felt real. We're we're crowded around our
17:23
television watching this. Phil has a really good first
17:26
run. He's got a second run.
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They always do on this the final day, they do two runs and he's
17:33
got a, a time he he could potentially get a gold medal.
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And so they go to a commercial break and I'm like, oh, great,
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all right, sure enough, commercial break.
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And then they come out of the commercial break.
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We're ready for Phil to ski a second run.
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But they said, hey, we're about to watch Phil on a second run.
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But before we do, oh, oh, here's a but right before we do, we had
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a chance to sit down and with Phil earlier and we want to show
18:04
you that interview. And it's an interview and it was
18:07
at the top of the mountain. And I forget who the announcer
18:10
was. And he's saying, Hey, Phil, tell
18:12
us a little bit about what it, what's it like up here?
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And, and they're talking about the conditions.
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And he said, So what do you do? How do you prepare for this
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race? What are you doing?
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And Phil said something that that stuck with me for the rest
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of my life. He said, I imagine the race from
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start to finish. I visualize every turn, every
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gate, every element of that mountain.
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And I I ski that mountain in my mind before I actually ski it
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physically. If I, if I don't do that, I
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can't have my best run. And then of course, then they go
18:49
to Phil. He runs pretty well.
18:52
He does good, but he doesn't quite do as well as Ingemar's
18:54
Denmark. So he gets the silver.
18:57
But still, that thing about imagining it was the first time
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I heard a pro athlete talk about using their imagination to
19:04
visualize how they perform. And I thought, wow, this is it.
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That's what first stuck with. That's why I wrote the book
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Imagine. I was like, this is a
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fascinating topic about imagination.
19:16
And I reached out to Phil a few years ago and he responded back
19:20
and he shared how powerful that was for him and his brother.
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In fact, four years after the 1980 Olympics and I've got, I
19:29
can find the clip for you if you want it.
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There's Phil and Steve, the two brothers, They're sitting next
19:35
to each other, but they're not talking to each other.
19:39
They're actually moving their hands back and forth and they're
19:42
visualizing and imagining the whole race, both of them their
19:46
own race. And in that race, it's so cool
19:51
because those two brothers, the guys that were wanted to that
19:55
aspire to get a medal in 1980, they got this, only got the
19:59
silver. The two brothers get gold and
20:01
silver in the 1984 Sarajevo games.
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And it's so cool just to see that, you know.
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So at any rate, that that element, that that was an
20:12
important element for me too. And he asked about just
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socialization thing. But I wanted to just share me
20:17
connecting with friends, watching the game, seeing
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sports, whether it's skiing or football or whatever it is.
20:23
Basketball, I love. I love that element.
20:26
Yeah. And I can relate so well with
20:28
that because growing up, for me, if there was something athletic
20:33
or physical, I I wanted to be in it.
20:35
And much like you and my parents would not let me play football.
20:42
They let me do karate for some reason, but they didn't let me
20:44
do football. But there is something about
20:48
sports that it really does help you with a competitiveness and a
20:55
drive for life, but it also does especially team sports, it
21:00
really does bring in this aspect of, of working well with others.
21:04
You know, if we look at your life, I am curious on the the
21:09
earlier side of life, what who are some of The Who are some of
21:13
your most impactful mentors in your life?
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Whether you knew you, they were mentors to you.
21:19
I know your I know your folks were for quite some time really,
21:24
I mean, still even now probably were mentors to you.
21:29
But what were some of those mentoring moments that you
21:32
remember early on to this day? I love that you talk about Phil
21:37
and Steve. Just that that left a mark on
21:40
you, even even people that you didn't even have that
21:43
interaction with. But who were some of those early
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on mentors that you were called Going Man?
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The lesson that they taught me then is so applicable now.
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Today it ages well. Yeah, no, yeah, for sure.
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Those mentors in our life, I mean always, always have a
22:01
mentor in your life. That was that would be my #1
22:06
action item for anybody is, you know, make sure you have a
22:09
mentor near you. I had, I didn't realize they
22:14
were mentors early on. Obviously your parents, the
22:16
parents, you know, unfortunately my dad passed away in 2007, but
22:20
he was my, he was my main mentor.
22:23
And then when he passed, I needed to fill that gap.
22:28
And that's that's why I connected with the John Maxwell
22:31
team and all that. I thought, how cool would that
22:33
be them John Maxwell be a mentor in my life And and through that,
22:38
and you know, I tell I saw him a couple weeks ago and I saw him
22:43
and I said, Scotty Faye, you are you are on my Mount Rushmore of
22:49
mentors. And he was like, what?
22:51
And I said, you are man, and because he really kind of walked
22:55
through some stuff because he's an entrepreneur business guy,
22:58
and I'm really connected with me and some of his his stuff that
23:01
he taught. But earlier than that, right,
23:03
Obviously we talked about parents.
23:05
I had AI, had a coach Bergen, Jack Bergen, who was a speech
23:10
writer for Casper Weinberger. He was my soccer coach.
23:13
Phenomenal guy. He was definitely a mentor.
23:18
So John and Mike Bergen, if you're listening, your dad was,
23:21
and hopefully your dad's still alive, but your dad was such an
23:25
impact guy for me. But the other one was Lieutenant
23:29
Colonel Tom Hemingway, right? So when I was 17 for summer, I
23:36
worked at this camp called Spring Canyon and he was the
23:40
camp director. And there's not a day that
23:44
doesn't go by where I don't remember what something that he
23:48
shared with me. And there's a story behind it.
23:50
But let me just let me just tell you one of the things that he
23:53
taught all of us and he he's taught anybody that went through
23:56
there was something called the three CS.
23:59
All right, the three CS, He said if you, if you aspire for these
24:06
things, you'll be able to lead well.
24:07
If you aspire for these things, you'll be able to add value and
24:10
make impact for others. And the three CS were #1 was
24:16
just competence, just building your skills, just getting good.
24:22
It doesn't. You don't start off good.
24:24
Nobody does. Competence is something you
24:27
build. It's nurtured.
24:30
It's not natural right now. You may think, well, I got a
24:34
natural skill for K2. What?
24:35
What? No, you got to keep building it.
24:38
Even if you have a natural skill, you got to keep building
24:40
it. Competence.
24:42
And then the the second one is courage.
24:44
So the second C is courage. Like there's an opportunity, you
24:48
know, and what, what we need to do to face whatever we're facing
24:52
is courage. And then the third C is
24:56
compassion. And those three things combined
25:00
together allow us to lead well, confidence, courage and
25:08
compassion. And so I remember that, but but
25:11
I remember him most for not just the three C's.
25:14
And later in life I found out where he got those 3C's.
25:17
So it's really interesting. But what I remember most though
25:22
is what he's told me. You mentioned the start off
25:25
about me going down a mudslide. It was wasn't quite a mudslide,
25:28
but it's close. So I climbed this mountain.
25:33
I love going to Colorado. It's one of my favorite places
25:35
to go, even though I live here in Virginia and I've been with
25:40
staring at this mountain all summer long.
25:42
The same that same summer that that I was at Spring Canyon
25:47
where Tom Hemingway was, was camp director.
25:51
And there's this peak on there called the Hook.
25:54
Now, it's not the the upper hook of Mount Princeton, It's one of
25:58
the lower hooks. But it's still, it's just, it's
26:02
just it's something that draws you.
26:04
And we've been talking about like, can we climb in, have
26:07
people climb? Oh, yeah, you can climb it.
26:10
And so the challenge was this for us, me and another guy,
26:14
we're going to try to climb this thing.
26:15
I'm going to hit breakfast early and then we're going to get back
26:18
by lunch. Nobody's ever done that before.
26:21
We're not going to miss a meal. We're going to climb this
26:23
mountain. So we get started, get going.
26:26
No problem. We just to, it's a longer story
26:32
than probably I, I, I have time to tell, but basically we're
26:36
able to get to that hook. Now, what happened along the way
26:40
was we kind of got separated because when you're climbing a
26:43
hill like that, a mountain like that, you can't really directly
26:46
follow another person sometimes, especially if you're doing it
26:49
without ropes. All right, so we, we went on a
26:53
parallel track and he found a better line and got to the
26:55
ridgeline a little bit faster than I did.
26:57
So he gets he gets to the the hook before I do, takes a look,
27:02
comes back down. I'm just coming up.
27:04
He says, should I wait for you? And I said no, you can make it
27:07
to lunch. I won't be far behind you.
27:10
Now those are words I would later regret.
27:13
So he keeps going. I go up to the the hook.
27:16
There's a little book. I signed the book.
27:18
I take a look. It's beautiful.
27:20
Come back down. As I'm coming down, I'm about
27:24
halfway down the mountain and there's a scree field.
27:27
Now a scree field is this very steep rocky terrain area and we
27:33
had gone through it earlier no problem, but it was cooler them
27:36
it was cooler then then it was at the time was stuck.
27:43
The ground is is it felt kind of like marshmallow kind of like
27:48
quicksand a little bit. It didn't feel the same.
27:52
And so I'm like, OK, great, this isn't good.
27:56
And sure enough, I took a little lateral step to the side and the
28:00
whole mountain just broke free basically.
28:03
And, or at least I did. And I just started sliding down
28:06
that thing and rock started following me down.
28:10
And I knew what was below me was nothing but a graveyard of trees
28:13
and boulders. And I just, you know, I was
28:17
praying out. I was doing everything I could,
28:19
just everything I could to stop. And somehow, miraculously, I
28:23
stopped about 40 feet away from hitting that graveyard, but
28:28
still, you know, there was still a trail of rocks and other
28:32
things tumbling over me. So I got, I got banged up pretty
28:35
good. Concussed leg was just shredded,
28:38
man, It was, it was bad. Somehow I got off that mountain,
28:42
wandered back to camp. I look like a extra half of a
28:45
Rambo said it was not pretty. And then I walk into the dining
28:51
room. I missed lunch, missed lunch.
28:54
And there was somebody coming out cleaning.
28:56
He had a rag to clean the table. He saw me as I came up the
29:00
stairs and he realized the rag wasn't for the table, it was for
29:03
me. So he came and cleaned me up and
29:07
gave me some water. And then about an hour later,
29:10
Tom Hemingway came by just to check on me, to see how I was
29:14
doing. And once he heard my story, he
29:16
said, this is what he said to me.
29:18
He said, you know, you, you could have lost your life on
29:20
that mountain today. I said, yeah, came close.
29:24
He said, you realize that every day is a gift.
29:31
Like what? Yeah, every day is a gift.
29:33
Going forward, the question is, is what are you going to do with
29:36
that gift? And that I think about that
29:41
almost every single day, to be honest with you.
29:45
Now the truth of it was before that slide in that fall, Nathan,
29:49
my aspirations were big. I was going to go either Air
29:52
Force Academy or Naval Academy. I was going to be a professional
29:55
athlete. I was going to do all these
29:56
other. I was going to climb every 14 or
29:58
in Colorado if I could. But that scare scared me to that
30:03
that that slide scared me to death.
30:08
Not I. Those words were powerful, but
30:12
it didn't necessarily move me till later, all right?
30:15
Because I was timid at that point.
30:17
I was like, OK, yeah, the mountains, those 14 years, they
30:20
look good right there. I'll just stay right here.
30:21
I'll just look at them from over here.
30:23
Sports, you know, I mean, I did do some track after that and,
30:28
you know, continued that. But my aspiration was different
30:32
as far as being a professional athlete.
30:35
Naval Academy, Air Force Academy, you know, I'll just go
30:39
to a regular university. So I kind of took a back seat
30:43
for a while. I, I kind of, I kind of just
30:47
parked it for a bit and then, and then that fire kind of
30:51
fueled back up my senior year, my last semester of college, I
30:54
realized, what am I doing? I'm just, I'm just living status
31:00
quo. I'm just settled.
31:01
I settled for average and that's it.
31:05
I, I can't do this anymore. I got to be who I am and so I
31:09
got to be remind myself of that of of continue on that those
31:13
3C's that that Tom Hemingway taught me that summer of, of
31:17
competence, courage. I wasn't taking the courage
31:21
right? Compassion.
31:23
Maybe I had some of that, but the courage, I wasn't playing
31:25
that part. And so every day is a gift.
31:30
What am I doing with it? So that's the question I asked
31:34
myself. And really the question I'll ask
31:35
anybody is, hey, look, every day is a gift.
31:38
What are you doing with it? I love it because it even even
31:43
in the past couple years, the the question of what are you,
31:47
what are you doing with your day to make a difference in the
31:50
world? Like every day really is a gift.
31:53
And even even going at the molecular level of like every
31:57
breath is a gift. You know, that's, that's
32:00
something that I've reflected on a lot, even within the past year
32:04
or so of just every single breath, every word that you
32:08
speak. Sometimes in the evening, I lay
32:10
down and my, it drives my wife nuts.
32:13
But I'll take these huge breaths in and I'll, and I'll exhale and
32:17
do a couple and then I'll do a long extended breath hold.
32:20
And what's really interesting is when you're not breathing, you
32:25
really desire air there. There's, there's something
32:31
precious about a breath and when you, when you measure your life
32:35
in a breath that it could gone in a second, it, it really does
32:41
give different perspective. And, and I'm curious for you
32:44
because you've had a lot of near death experiences, like I know
32:48
people who have had a near death experience, one or two of them,
32:52
but it seems like you've had quite a few of them in your
32:55
life. What, what, what has?
32:58
What have you learned from not just one near death experience,
33:03
but multiple near death experiences in your life?
33:08
We, I think what I've learned is first of all, that I, I really,
33:12
you know, I'm a person of faith and I think God protects us in
33:16
ways that we don't even know that there are, there are
33:20
moments that happen in our life that maybe are closer than you
33:24
think. I mean, we are one breath away
33:27
from, you know, sometimes one step away.
33:33
And so, you know, I'm so thankful that God still had what
33:36
we're all here for a reason. We're more resilient than we
33:38
realize. You know, despite any near death
33:41
kind of experiences that anybody has, including myself, we're
33:45
still here for a reason, you know, and so it's a wake up
33:48
call, right? Every time we ponder back and
33:52
think about those moments, I think it's a wake up call.
33:54
They realize, you know what, let's step forward, let's go.
33:58
You know, it's, we're still here.
34:00
Let's, let's learn from what we can.
34:03
Let's not make it. It's not knowing.
34:06
You know, it's not because of clumsiness.
34:08
It's just there are some things that happen in life.
34:10
Circumstances happen. What makes your life aren't the
34:14
circumstances, but at the decisions you make in in in the
34:17
midst of those circumstances. That's where life is made, made
34:22
on those decision points in the midst of the challenges that
34:27
happen. Yeah.
34:29
So. Yeah, yeah, I, I love the man in
34:31
the arena, right. Teddy Roosevelt.
34:34
So Teddy Roosevelt, I think it was in 19 O 7.
34:38
He's basically he's on the world tour, right?
34:41
He's already been president of the United States.
34:43
And two years earlier he won the Nobel Peace Prize, but he didn't
34:47
he didn't pick it up. So he's finally off to go get
34:51
his Nobel Peace Prize and he gets invited.
34:56
He, he books, books a stop at Soborn University in Paris and
35:01
he gives a speech. It's the most infamous speech of
35:03
all time. It's called Citizens of the
35:05
Republic. And in that speech, there's a
35:09
segment of it that's now called the man in the arena segment
35:13
segment, right? So I don't have it in front of
35:15
me, but I'm going to, I'm going to suggest to your listeners and
35:20
watchers, go, go check it out, The man in the arena.
35:23
And in there, he talks about the challenges that we face, that we
35:28
all step in this arena and that we can be bloody and dusty.
35:33
Just kind of like me coming off that mountain, right?
35:37
And he talks about 3 different types of individuals.
35:40
It's the there's the gladiator. That's you and me.
35:44
But then there's also the spectator, right?
35:47
Just watching, observing. That's what I did for a bit
35:51
there. I told you, I just kind of
35:53
settled for average. That's spectating.
35:56
And then there's the critic. So the three different types of
36:00
individuals he's talking about is the gladiator, the spectator,
36:04
and the critic. And the critic is the one who
36:07
says, why would you do that? Right?
36:10
We, we had some critics early on when we try to start some
36:13
mentions. I've had lots of critics.
36:15
You know, how are you going to do that?
36:17
Why would you do that? And we've got to flip that.
36:22
Sometimes that critic is ourselves, by the way.
36:24
Sometimes we are our own worst critic and that doesn't serve us
36:27
at all. So how can we instead of be the
36:31
critic, how can we be? How can we coach ourselves or
36:37
how can we put other people around us or remind ourselves,
36:40
you know what, every day is a gift.
36:42
What am I going to do with it? And step forward with that,
36:46
right? Seek out, you know, competence
36:48
is something that's nurtured, seeked out that competence.
36:51
How can I take a step of courage?
36:54
How can I show compassion for others?
36:56
The three C's that we mentioned earlier.
36:58
So I think I think that's powerful.
37:01
And one of the lines in there is probably been the most impactful
37:04
line for me. It's not scripture.
37:06
He says this. He says there is no effort
37:10
without error on shortcoming. There is no effort without error
37:16
or shortcoming. And the reality is, is that when
37:20
we do fail and we fail often, the tendency is to be OK, I give
37:25
up, I'm done, I quit, right, Nathan?
37:28
That happens all of us. We feel that doesn't necessarily
37:32
mean that we do, but if we just remember, hey, what?
37:36
There's no effort without error for coming.
37:38
So like in this room that that I'm in right now, I remember as
37:43
I was working on this, trying to put up some paneling that you
37:45
can see back there, I was having some struggles, but I didn't
37:50
stop. I just reminded myself there's
37:53
no effort without error shortcoming, you know, and I
37:55
figured out a way to get it done right.
37:58
Same in life for all of us. Same in life for all of us.
38:02
There is no effort without error for coming.
38:04
So I really find that that's a powerful.
38:09
That whole speech is powerful, by the way.
38:13
Definitely, definitely, if you're listening, go go listen
38:16
to what he's talking about. Like there's so many things that
38:19
you've said, even even thus far, you know, and we used to have a
38:22
little bit more time, but there are so many Nuggets of wisdom
38:26
that you've just collected over the years.
38:28
And, and I and I love it. And by the way, make sure you go
38:31
check out his, his wonderful line of books, because they're
38:35
packed with just the same amount, if not more wisdom of,
38:40
of what you're listening to right now.
38:42
And I, I love this idea that you, that you were just talking
38:46
about that there's a resilience that we all have.
38:51
But there, there are points in life where, you know, there's
38:54
the moment of resilience where you go, oh, I've got to be
38:57
resilient. I got to keep going.
38:59
But then there's also moments in life that they just hit
39:02
differently. You know, there's, there's,
39:04
there, there is that moment of struggle, but then there's also
39:07
a continuous struggle. Sometimes when you were 48, you
39:11
had a diagnosis that really shifted this idea of resilience
39:18
of not just a like, this is a moment that I have to get
39:22
through, but this is something now that I, I will carry and
39:25
need to continue to move through.
39:28
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
39:30
And and how does life shift when it's no longer at, hey, let's
39:34
get through this moment, but now it's hey, let's continue to bear
39:39
this cross as we move forward. Yeah, yeah.
39:42
Thanks. Thanks so much to tell on that.
39:45
But I'll just kind of get to the heart of it.
39:48
So what Nathan's referring to is I was diagnosed with multiple
39:52
sclerosis, Ms. And that was, you know, I talked earlier about
39:59
imagination, right? Imagination is the most powerful
40:02
muscle you have. It's either going to lift you or
40:04
limit you. That was a moment in my life
40:06
initially where it definitely limited me.
40:10
I, I was in a dark space. I was thinking the worst, right?
40:15
And then when, what do, what do we do when we get a diagnosis
40:18
like that? You jump on the Internet and you
40:20
start searching and you find out all the things that could go
40:23
wrong, might go wrong, will go wrong.
40:25
That's where I was at for a little bit.
40:28
And then I, I, I'm still struggling with it that this is
40:31
early on, I was still struggling with it and I remember going in
40:36
to get a steroid injection. OK, now here's here's how it all
40:42
took place. Why would, why do they need a
40:44
steroid injection? I lost vision in my left eye and
40:48
I didn't know what it was. And then when I went in, the
40:52
ophthalmologist said, oh, you have optic neuritis.
40:57
That's a sure tell sign of Ms. That's what he told me.
41:01
I went and got an MRI. Sure enough, Ms. So the eye
41:07
still wasn't working right. So I go into, I go in to get a
41:12
steroid injection because they're trying to get to the
41:14
left eye going again. I think, well, we can get it
41:16
going again. And the nurse says to me, she
41:19
asks, well, what are you in here for now?
41:21
Most people where I was at, they're going for chemo, you
41:26
know, and I have a heart and passion for those folks that
41:28
have gone through that, that challenge.
41:31
And so I'm there in the midst of them and, you know, we're just
41:34
trying to encourage each other and just, you know, gosh,
41:37
there's some amazing people out there are going through some
41:39
tough challenges who who just will pour.
41:43
They will talk about compassion. They'll just they'll cheer you
41:48
up. This nurse and nurses as well.
41:54
This nurse asked me why I'm in in there and I tell her I said I
41:58
got optic neuritis Ms. and she goes, she says this initially,
42:04
Oh dear, that usually not the best way to start.
42:09
But she says, Oh dear, I'm sorry to hear that.
42:12
We had a lady in here not too long ago, maybe a half a year
42:15
ago, same thing, optic neuritis, Ms. and now she's sheltered at
42:20
home and she can no longer walk. Not that's not what I needed to
42:27
hear, but it was the setup for something that I did need to
42:31
hear. So then she said, But wait,
42:33
there's more Like, oh great, there's more I'm thinking.
42:37
It's going to continue to go down.
42:39
I was in a dark space Then she said to me, she says, Paul,
42:44
there's two other men that came in here.
42:46
They didn't know each other, but they became fast friends and
42:50
they both had the same thing. Ms. I guess what they now run 5
42:56
KS, 10 KS and half marathons. They didn't give up hope.
43:02
And the story she was telling me is that one gal, and you know, I
43:06
hope she's OK now, but she kind of gave up hope and she
43:10
sheltered at home. The other two didn't give up
43:14
hope and they're running 5 KS, 10 KS and half marathons.
43:18
I want to, I want that hope, right.
43:20
So that really has helped me through all of this is just to
43:23
remind myself, you know what, every day is a gift.
43:27
You know, what am I doing with it?
43:29
So yeah, I've got Ms. but you know, Ms. doesn't have me.
43:33
So I'm, I'm just working through it, trying to do take care of my
43:36
body the best I can. I could probably take care of it
43:38
better, but I'm doing all right. So it's, I just want to
43:44
encourage, you know, the Ms. story I think is it's something
43:47
that hopefully will encourage other people through it.
43:50
And, you know, who knows what happens to me in the future, but
43:56
I'm still here now. I'm not going to worry about
43:57
what happens in the future. I've got today, today.
44:02
So let's take care of today. I love that, you know, there
44:05
really is something to be said about living in the moment and
44:09
not the Yolo, you know, type of lifestyle of like, I'm going to
44:12
do whatever I want because you never know what might happen.
44:15
It's, it's living intentionally, you know, you know, a mentor of
44:19
ours has talked about intentional living for a number
44:22
of years. But until you know certain
44:25
things happen in your life, you don't really grasp the concept
44:29
of intentional living, of why it's so important to
44:33
intentionally live in a specific way, not not intentionally plan
44:37
out. Because as you know, you and I
44:38
both know our plans don't always go exactly the way we want it.
44:44
I do want to ask you this question because you know, as a
44:47
father, you, you learn a lot about your kids growing up and
44:51
they teach you a lot about yourself too.
44:53
But I'm curious, you have, you have two older boys, they have
44:56
their own things going on in life.
44:58
They're doing well. I'm curious, what are you
45:01
learning from your boys right now in life?
45:05
I I'm both, you know, our kids are different, right?
45:09
And I think I probably speak to most parents that are, are
45:13
watching this, right? Your, your children, they're not
45:15
the same. They're different.
45:17
And there's something to learn from them, right?
45:19
And they're learning from you. First of all, they're learning
45:22
from you as a dad or a mom. And so continue to, to model
45:27
that out. But the truth of it is, is that
45:29
you're learning from them too. And especially as they get into
45:34
that, that adult age, it's an opportunity for you to say, you
45:38
know what, here's, here's the impact that you've made in my
45:40
life. And, and I want to thank you for
45:42
that. So for my oldest son, Michael,
45:45
if you're watching this, you know, the impact you've made for
45:49
me, you know, through his challenges, his own physical
45:52
challenges, he, he taught me the meaning of not giving up.
45:56
All right, Like, you know what, there's, there's ways around it.
46:00
No matter what I'm reminded of as I'm sharing this, I'm
46:04
reminding of an old movie, a Pixar movie called A Bug's Life.
46:08
I don't know if if you remember that.
46:10
Do you remember that? Yeah.
46:12
And there's a leaf that kind of floats down early on in the
46:15
movie and it it lands on the ground and all these ants,
46:19
worker bee ants that are carrying payloads to to the
46:23
sacrifice I. Don't know where's the line?
46:26
Yeah, yeah, they're all messed up.
46:29
And so, so there's a this leaf that falls down like, Oh no,
46:33
what are we going to do? What are we going to do?
46:34
And then the leader aunt says, do not panic, do not panic.
46:40
Go around the leaf. And he always found a way around
46:45
the leaf that despite all the, the different challenges that he
46:49
had and, and you know, he just his, his ability just to
46:55
overcome stuff that's been really impactful for me, for
46:59
Ryan, he's, he's probably more, more creative, but he's my
47:02
youngest. I just love the fact that he's
47:06
rediscovering his creativity that he thought, you know,
47:09
remember I told you at 12, you kind of, and I think, I think
47:14
he, he, he was up above the line, way above the line early
47:18
on. And, and he's, he's got that
47:21
creative juice back again, which I love to see.
47:23
So that excites me. And it just reminds me like, you
47:26
know what? We're, we're never too old to be
47:28
creative no matter who we are. So even though he's, he's only
47:32
in his 20s, right? We, we think once we're, we're
47:36
done with high school, well, that's it.
47:37
I'm not the creative type. No, actually, you're #2 you're
47:42
never too old. You're never too young, and
47:45
you're never too old to be creative.
47:46
Yeah, there really is something about this concept of the adult
47:50
learning brain in there. You know, in in the world that
47:54
you and I live in, there's a lot of learners, people that are
47:57
passionate about learners. They want to, they want to know
48:00
more every single day. They want to become a little bit
48:03
better. And it's interesting because
48:06
when I was growing up, it was, it was kind of not common to
48:11
find someone who loved to learn, people who love to learn and
48:16
grow and develop themselves. And, and I always, I always
48:19
thought to myself growing up like this is really strange.
48:22
Like I'm, I'm, I'm weird because I want to grow, I want to learn.
48:26
I want to become the best version of myself.
48:28
And you know, my, my parents weren't necessarily the ones of
48:31
like, you know, listening to Tony Robbins and, and those
48:34
kinds of things, but there was something deep down inside of me
48:39
where I wanted to progress. I wanted to learn.
48:43
And something that is so beautiful about what you were
48:47
just saying is, you know, that I love the Bugs life picture, by
48:51
the way, like you hit the leaf. And I remember very distinctly
48:55
as you were saying this, like follow me.
48:57
And the, the, the if you go watch the movie, it's it's so
49:02
memorable to me right now. I can see it.
49:04
The Ant puts both hands forward and says, look into my eyes.
49:08
Follow me. Don't look away, but just follow
49:12
me. Any, any slowly brings everyone
49:14
back to the line. There are people in the world
49:18
that are really good at that. They, you know, there's a lot of
49:22
chaos going on and they say, look at, follow me.
49:27
Just just keep your eyes on me and let's keep going this way.
49:30
Focus is a really important aspect of life.
49:35
And in the world that we live in, our focus is pulled left and
49:40
right all over the place. You know, even even just sitting
49:44
here, you know, for a brief moment, you know, right now
49:48
it's, it's 5:00 in the morning here.
49:50
And even when I woke up this morning at 3:00, my mind, my
49:55
attention was being pulled by my phone or by other things, not
50:00
even just digital things, but our our attention is always
50:02
being pulled away. What have you learned about the
50:07
importance of focus and having a clear vision on purpose and
50:13
desire moving forward? Yeah, that's a great question.
50:17
I love it. Wow.
50:19
And first of all, kudos to you, man, getting up for this, you
50:24
know, that's pretty awesome. It just shows that, by the way,
50:29
it just shows the passion that you have for for people and and
50:33
adding value. And I appreciate that so much.
50:36
Focus is is a great word. I love it.
50:42
You know, Stephen Covey says start with the end in mind.
50:45
So when we're talking about, you know, taking opportunities of
50:50
the day that we have in front of us, it doesn't mean neglecting,
50:54
neglecting that There's two elements, their strategy and
50:58
they're there. There's tactical, like what we
51:01
do right now every day. We got to eat and all that, and
51:03
then they're strategic. So we got to think strategically
51:07
each day, think strategically each day, think strategically.
51:12
And so for me, focus means, all right, OK, if I need to think
51:16
strategically, what are the things that need to be done?
51:20
All right? And I use something called a
51:23
combine board or without a scrum board, right?
51:27
And what happens is I can easily get distracted.
51:32
Like the scroll on social media is probably the worst thing
51:37
ever, right? Because I'll get distracted.
51:41
But the same is in true in life, right?
51:43
There's a lot, a lot of noise, a lot of things that are
51:46
happening. How do you collect that?
51:47
How do you stay focused and get done what you need to get done?
51:53
So what I have on my combine board, just for all, all your
51:56
viewers and listeners is 3 columns actually have 4 columns.
52:00
I'll describe them. Each first column is called A to
52:03
do column. It's just like what you think,
52:07
nothing special, but it is a little different.
52:10
So the to do column is OK, there's something I got to do.
52:13
Maybe somebody's giving me a task.
52:15
They've they've put a monkey on my back and I've got to go take
52:17
care of that. Whatever it is, I've got it.
52:20
I'll I'll add that to my To Do List and I won't give it a
52:24
second thought. I'll just throw it over there.
52:26
Doesn't mean I'm doing it. Doesn't mean I'm doing it.
52:29
I just threw it over there. All right, we call it and soft
52:32
the software world call it a product backlog.
52:36
The next column is called a doing column.
52:38
Now these are the things that I'm doing and guess what,
52:41
Nathan? I only have up to three items on
52:44
a good day. Now they're bad.
52:45
They're days where I'm I go off the reservation.
52:48
So but there's only three things I only have on there at one
52:54
time, Max one to three things, because if I put more things on
53:01
there than I ought, man, I'm not, I'm going to lose focus
53:04
right away because that's a lot of things happening, right?
53:08
We're on these amazing computers that have, gosh, a gazillion
53:14
apps up right now and tabs up on your, you're right, a Chrome.
53:21
And it's so easy to get distracted, right?
53:23
Or the news alert happens or as a moment ago, my phone rings.
53:27
I had it in my pocket. I should have not had my phone
53:29
in my pocket, right? Easy to get distracted, OK, but
53:34
that doing column, if I just focused on those three things,
53:38
the things that matter most that that need my attention, that
53:42
need to be done, not worrying about the other things on the To
53:46
Do List. Let me get those three things
53:47
done and then I have a third column called done.
53:50
So when I'm done with that, all right, this is a whiteboard.
53:53
I've got one of in the corner over here.
53:55
I got one in the office. All right, now what I
53:58
accomplished, there's a kind of a chemical neurochemical, you
54:04
know, just, it fires me up to to see what I've done, you know,
54:13
that oxytocin, that, that element of that, that's really
54:16
cool when you when you accomplish something.
54:19
I have a fourth column in there called daily schedule, right?
54:23
And I need that for myself, but I really need that for other
54:26
people too, if they're coming into my office, because if I
54:30
don't lay out my my schedule, I mean, yeah, we all have our
54:34
phones and our calendars there, but I need a physical space and
54:39
a place just to remind myself of what's coming up on on the day,
54:43
right. So for me, it's 7:00 here, East
54:46
Coast. So I've got that right, 7:00
54:49
Boom. Nathan.
54:50
All right. So those are the kind of things
54:52
that I do that really helps helps get focused for me.
54:56
And you know, and every day I look back at that To Do List.
55:00
I may not have gone through that whole To Do List in one day.
55:03
In fact, if I had, then I probably wasn't as efficient as
55:06
I needed to be or as effective. Efficient and effective are two
55:10
different things. All right, Effective means, OK,
55:14
I really did something there that added value to and
55:17
efficient might be, well, I just checked the box.
55:21
That's not really efficient. That's to me.
55:24
There's there's a lot more to it.
55:26
So I want to make I'll go back and look at my To Do List what's
55:29
left on the board and then then pick, pick and choose what needs
55:33
to be done. You know what's most important?
55:36
I love it. You know, one of the things that
55:39
you've talked about before, and I want to touch on this because
55:43
first of all, systems are really important to have in life.
55:47
There's a lot of people that go through life that don't use a
55:51
system at all. Well, let's just say this.
55:53
They have a system they don't know exists in their life and
55:56
it's not necessarily serving them.
55:59
For you, you have something called the flywheel, and I'd
56:02
love for you to unpack this just a little bit.
56:04
I know, I know we're almost at that time here, but you know
56:08
what? Let's go through the most
56:09
complicated. Yeah, I'm glad you brought
56:13
brought that up. Tell everyone about the
56:16
flywheel, specifically how you use that in your own life, and
56:21
then why it's important for other people to have something
56:25
like that in their life. That is an easy go to.
56:28
This is how I operate. Yeah, this is, I remember seeing
56:33
my wife go through this process, but basically Jim Collins good
56:38
to great, right? Are you familiar with All right,
56:41
built to last. He, he came up with this
56:44
flywheel concept based on research.
56:46
I love it. I heard him earlier this year
56:49
too, at a Dave Ramsey event talking about the flywheel.
56:52
And I feel like this is probably one of the more effective tools.
56:56
You know, we talked about focus. This is the other element of
56:58
focus that I've been using more recently.
57:01
Very helpful. A flywheel is something that's
57:04
going to build momentum for you. My flywheel and yours may be
57:07
different, should be different, right?
57:10
So my flywheel that I have is #1 cast vision.
57:15
So that's the first item in it, right?
57:18
Because I think every great story begins with imagination.
57:23
All right, cast vision. That's why I wrote the book
57:26
Imagine. Then the second one is
57:30
communicate truth. Communicate truth, All right?
57:35
My thought is that vision only lasts if it's clearly shared.
57:40
So, you know, the Bible says without vision, the people
57:45
perish. Well, that vision needs to be
57:47
communicated. So we got to communicate truth.
57:50
And #3 is choose impact. Choose impact.
57:55
All right. And yeah, so big dreams demand
58:01
collaboration. So I, I can't do this by myself.
58:05
I need, I need Nathan. I need other people in my life.
58:08
We we get to share with you guys today some some thoughts and
58:12
ideas, but he obviously has a platform allowing me to share
58:18
this stuff with you right now. But really there's opportunities
58:21
that we each have choose impact, but it requires collaboration.
58:26
The 4th 1 is cultivate faith and grit.
58:28
Now I'm a person of faith. I truly believe it.
58:32
I've had too many experiences in my life to show, to show me and
58:36
reveal to me that God is real, you know, and our country, I
58:41
think needs more than any time ever.
58:44
We need to, to kind of step forward with faith.
58:47
And then, you know, for me, that's I'm just praying for our
58:50
country. The time that we're recording
58:52
this, we, we had some really tragic events that happened here
58:56
in the United States. And that's tough, but we get to
59:00
cultivate faith and grit. I think faith and grit are
59:03
paired together. You can't have faith without
59:06
grit. You can't really shouldn't have
59:08
grit without faith. And perseverance fuels momentum.
59:13
So that's my 4th. So this flywheel just kind of
59:16
goes around the last bit before we come back to cast vision has
59:20
changed the world. We get to have an impact on the
59:23
world and change the world. Every mountain you face.
59:26
All right, so my book Face the Mountain, the most recent Every
59:29
mountain you face isn't it is an invitation to grow.
59:33
It's an invitation to grow. So you know, it's like the man
59:36
in the arena. So and then we come back to cast
59:39
vision again. All right, cast vision,
59:41
communicate truth, choose impact, cultivate faith and
59:44
grit. Change the world so.
59:49
I love it and it's the visualization of the flywheel is
59:54
is really impactful on it and I love that you brought that up.
59:57
You know, the, the good, the great book I actually I've
59:59
looked over from I was like, I'm pretty sure.
1:00:01
Yep, it's right there. It's I literally have it over on
1:00:03
my shelf right over here and. This right there.
1:00:07
See that? Yeah.
1:00:10
But the, the flywheel, it's, it's such a a, it looks so
1:00:16
simple, but yet it is so impactful in its execution and
1:00:22
how it works. And having that momentum builder
1:00:25
in your life is important. And if you don't know what that
1:00:28
momentum builder is, that's definitely something that both
1:00:31
Paul and I would encourage you to take some time to figure that
1:00:35
out today. But what are the things that you
1:00:38
can focus on that are going to build that momentum up?
1:00:41
Like he said, it may not be exactly what Paul thinks.
1:00:44
It may not be exactly what Nathan thinks or what Nathan
1:00:46
needs. But you have a flywheel in your
1:00:50
car and the thing that you're driving right now your life and
1:00:54
you got to figure out what that is.
1:00:56
Paul, I have one more question here for you.
1:00:59
But before I ask it, I want to encourage each and everyone of
1:01:02
you listening right now to go check out the breaking average
1:01:05
podcast with Paul Gustafson and his his Corky friend, Barry
1:01:11
Smith. I love Barry I I like to give
1:01:14
that guy a hard time, but go check out the podcast.
1:01:18
It truly is a great listen because they talk about some
1:01:24
heavy subjects, but they also have a ton of fun talking,
1:01:28
communicating, sharing ideas. It it's not the normal podcast.
1:01:33
I feel like like usually it's like super serious with one
1:01:36
podcast or it's it's really funny with one with another one.
1:01:40
Like they have a really great amalgamation of both of, of
1:01:45
levity, but both also of growth and and and and learning.
1:01:50
So go check out that podcast, the breaking average podcast.
1:01:53
Make sure you also go and get a copy of Paul's newest book, Face
1:01:57
the mountain. It really is powerful.
1:02:00
He even talked about a couple of the concepts that we were
1:02:02
talking about today of the three CS.
1:02:05
So make sure you go get grab a copy of that book too.
1:02:09
Paul, There are a lot of people who just lack self belief.
1:02:14
They lack the belief in themselves on who God has really
1:02:18
created them to be. You know, you and I would look
1:02:20
at them and we say, wow, wow, you have amazing gifts, you have
1:02:24
amazing talents and, and, and we see them, We go use those go
1:02:28
out, make a difference in the world.
1:02:30
Go, go, go, go make a splash, fail forward.
1:02:35
And yet there's still this struggle, this internal
1:02:39
struggle. What, what is your advice to
1:02:45
maybe one, from the people that want to communicate to those
1:02:49
people their value, But two, what would you say to that
1:02:53
person that maybe wrestles with this idea of, I don't feel like
1:02:57
I have something that I bring to the table.
1:02:59
I don't feel like I have a gift that is going to, you know, make
1:03:03
a difference in someone's life. What would you say to that
1:03:06
person? Yeah, I, I appreciate.
1:03:09
Yeah, it's, it's a good question and it's 1.
1:03:11
I think all of us, first of all, I would say to anybody who who's
1:03:14
been there, hey, we've all wrestled with that.
1:03:17
We have all wrestled with that, that feeling of inadequacy, not
1:03:23
enough that we don't have what we don't have what that person
1:03:27
has and so forth and so on. That's something I think every
1:03:30
one of us is, is faced and experienced.
1:03:32
And I just want, I just lean into you and like, you know
1:03:35
what? You, you're made for this,
1:03:38
right? My favorite phrase is built for
1:03:43
this. And there's this element of
1:03:47
confirmation bias that can actually typically we see the
1:03:51
negative stuff and we confirm that we can't do something.
1:03:55
But what if we flip the switch the other way and are like, you
1:03:58
know what, go in with the idea and the mentality.
1:04:02
Just even if you half believe it, even if you have to believe
1:04:06
it, that you do have what it takes, that you're built for
1:04:10
this because you are, you wouldn't be here otherwise.
1:04:14
There's a purpose and a reason for you to be on this planet.
1:04:17
All of us. You know what's what is that?
1:04:21
Well, it's hard to figure that out, but just recognize the fact
1:04:24
that there's going to be opportunities for you.
1:04:26
And here's the deal. Here's what happens every single
1:04:28
day, every single day is that there is something that I call
1:04:32
divine appointments. There are moments that happen.
1:04:35
There's going to be encounters that you have with other people
1:04:38
that you didn't expect that weren't necessarily on your
1:04:40
schedule, wasn't on your appointment, wasn't on your,
1:04:43
your calendar. Now you're going to talk to
1:04:45
somebody. It might be the some you go to
1:04:48
the local convenience store and you pick up something there and
1:04:51
he sees just a person and at work in the register, I don't
1:04:55
know. But there's going to be some
1:04:57
unbelievable amazing experiences and you're made for this.
1:05:03
You're built for this. Look for those opportunities
1:05:06
just to encourage them. Remember the three C's and if
1:05:10
anything else, start with the third one.
1:05:13
Compassion. Show compassion to somebody
1:05:15
else. You know what?
1:05:15
Because our world needs it. They need your compassion.
1:05:20
That means kind of hearing them out.
1:05:23
You know, seek to understand before being understood.
1:05:26
I would start with that, but show compassion because if you
1:05:29
show that kindness to somebody else, that might be just what
1:05:32
they need there. May they may be going through a
1:05:35
really bad day and you can just show them just a little bit of
1:05:39
balance of just kindness and gratitude.
1:05:43
Wow. All right.
1:05:46
And with that, because you have compassion, I think courage kind
1:05:50
of gets triggered, right? That's the second C.
1:05:52
So I'm going to actually walk through these backwards.
1:05:55
That second C that gives you a little bit of courage, right?
1:05:58
That's going to be a little bit more of a bounce in your step to
1:06:00
be able to do that next, because there's going to be another
1:06:03
divine appointment. Something else is going to
1:06:05
happen. All right?
1:06:07
And then confidence starts to build, right?
1:06:11
Confidence comes through that learning process.
1:06:15
So when we when we just start working through it, we realize,
1:06:20
wait a minute, I've got something.
1:06:21
You do have something. Each of us has something.
1:06:25
One of my favorite tools is Lencioni's working genius.
1:06:28
I would encourage you to go through that.
1:06:31
You have some genius in you. You know, for me, it's I'm I and
1:06:37
W invention, innovation or invention and wonder, those are
1:06:42
my areas. There's other areas that drain
1:06:45
me a little bit. Doesn't mean that I can't do it.
1:06:48
It just means that it just zaps me a little bit more, but fine.
1:06:53
You're working genius take take time.
1:06:56
So I'm plugging Lanchione's book, Working Genius.
1:06:58
Just this assessment. He's got an assessment test that
1:07:02
I think that will help you. I've got one as well because I
1:07:05
believe it. And this is before you,
1:07:06
Lanchione did his I, I think there's three types of
1:07:11
imagineers, right? So an Imagineer, I think you're
1:07:14
either a dreamer, a designer or an implementer.
1:07:21
And we're one of those three things.
1:07:23
All right. And just explore that, find time
1:07:27
to explore what those those are because you have some strengths.
1:07:31
But go in there, look for those divine appointments.
1:07:33
And at the end of the day, and as you review the tape to see
1:07:36
how was my day, think about those divine appointments that
1:07:40
took place, that the connections that you had with other
1:07:43
individuals. Those are meaningful, you know.
1:07:46
So yeah, that that's, that's what I'll encourage folks to do.
1:07:52
Absolutely powerful and go back and listen to even just the last
1:07:56
five minutes of what we were, what we've been talking about
1:07:59
because it it's such a powerful message.
1:08:01
And, and Paul, I really appreciate you coming on and and
1:08:04
sharing your wisdom. I love this idea that we that
1:08:08
you're built for this, but not only that you're built for this,
1:08:11
but you're being developed for that catch that that that you're
1:08:16
being you're you were built for this moment right now.
1:08:19
Everything in your past has LED you up to this point.
1:08:22
Every pain, every every piece that you've had to overcome has
1:08:26
brought you to a place right now that you were built for every
1:08:30
situation that you're going through currently right now, but
1:08:34
that that's not that that's not the end point.
1:08:36
You're also being developed for that, for that of the future of
1:08:40
what is to come. And so remember that it's not
1:08:44
just about where you are today. It's about overcoming today to
1:08:48
continue to pursue and move towards what is coming tomorrow
1:08:52
to become more than before, because that's what we we've
1:08:55
been talking about here, Paul and I, it's, it's not about just
1:08:59
today, but it's also about moving forward to what you're
1:09:03
going to do. And God is developing you for
1:09:06
something wonderful, something amazing to speak into someone's
1:09:09
life, to make a difference, whether it's the gas station
1:09:12
attendant, whether it's the person that's bagging groceries
1:09:14
at the store, or whether it's someone that you see every
1:09:18
single day that you don't know that you're having an impact in
1:09:22
their life. So Paul, this has been such a
1:09:25
wonderful time. I really do appreciate you
1:09:27
coming on the program. Make sure you go check out all
1:09:31
of Paul's content, share and like this episode of the
1:09:34
podcast. It really does help and I would
1:09:37
love to share Paul's story with the world.
1:09:40
So let's get it out there. Share, like subscribe.
1:09:43
Until next time, remember to be more, see more, and experience
1:09:47
more than before.