Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Building Stronger Academic Partnerships to Strengthen the Nursing Workforce

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Building Stronger Academic Partnerships to Strengthen the Nursing Workforce · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

0:00
- Hi, everyone. This is Lucas Voss with Becker's
0:02
- Healthcare. Thanks so much for tuning in to
0:04
- the Becker's Healthcare podcast series. It's fantastic to
0:07
- have you. I'm excited to welcome Wendy Merchant
0:09
- Scholte and doctor Holly Cottwell to our podcast
0:12
- episode today on building better hospital academic partnerships
0:15
- and creating student centered workforce pipelines.
0:19
- Wendy is vice president of nursing services at
0:21
- Orvis, where she oversees strategic and operational direction
0:24
- for nursing academic nerve services across multiple partner
0:27
- sites. She focuses on strengthening partner relationships, supporting
0:31
- site level teams, and ensuring a high quality
0:34
- student centered experience.
0:36
- Doctor Caldwell is the dean of the College
0:37
- of Nursing at Concordia University Saint Paul. She
0:40
- brings more than thirty one years of nursing
0:43
- experience across clinical care, academic leadership, research, and
0:46
- accreditation
0:47
- with prior roles spanning emergency and trauma nursing,
0:50
- nurse science, and national nursing education service.
0:54
- Wendy, it's so great to have you, doctor
0:55
- Caldwell. Welcome to the podcast.
0:58
- Thank you, Lucas. Happy to be here. Thank
1:00
- you. Thank you. It's great to be here.
1:03
- Yes. We have so much to talk about.
1:05
- And, again, such a wealth of knowledge from
1:07
- both of you for this conversation.
1:09
- And doctor Caldwell, I I wanna start off
1:11
- with you here. In the early days of
1:13
- the sort of the Concordia University Saint Paul
1:15
- Orbis partnership,
1:17
- there was a lot of challenges, right, around
1:18
- trust and scalability and certainly role clarity
1:21
- and also and we'll touch on this here
1:22
- in a little bit, site to site consistency,
1:22
- which will become
1:24
- very,
1:27
- consistency, which will become very, very important here
1:28
- in a bit. What were the first sort
1:30
- of concrete steps you took to reestablish
1:32
- boundaries, rebuild that trust, most importantly,
1:36
- and get both the academic and industry sites
1:39
- aligned on that one shared program model?
1:42
- Yeah. That's a very big question right there.
1:45
- I will have to say that all of
1:47
- this started during COVID,
1:49
- but across our partnership,
1:51
- the university's partnership with Orbis Education, what we
1:54
- really focused on from a leadership perspective
1:57
- is making sure that we had
1:59
- really clearly defined some roles and responsibilities. Because
2:02
- when you've got a partnership like this, everybody
2:05
- needs to know what the other group is
2:07
- responsible for. We also really worked on making
2:10
- sure that on the university side of the
2:12
- house, we,
2:14
- had set and maintained the academic authority over
2:16
- the curriculum,
2:18
- but then worked really,
2:19
- closely in collaboration with our Orbis team members
2:23
- in operationalizing
2:24
- that academic,
2:26
- curriculum.
2:27
- And
2:28
- we work together collaboratively
2:30
- to figure out how we could streamline decision
2:33
- making processes
2:34
- with a lot of roll up communication opportunities
2:37
- that really helped with that. Wendy, did you
2:40
- have anything there for from your side?
2:43
- I think, another important piece of that was
2:46
- we really did do this jointly, collaboratively.
2:49
- It took both Holly,
2:52
- her leadership, my leadership,
2:54
- our teams kind of coming together in a
2:56
- collaborative way,
2:58
- and us really setting that tone
3:01
- moving forward.
3:02
- And so it really was a culture shift
3:06
- and the cons constant
3:08
- student centered,
3:10
- is it scalable?
3:11
- Is it student centered? Is it collaborative? Like,
3:14
- we were constantly asking those questions as we
3:17
- were moving forward and really setting the foundation.
3:21
- Doctor Caldwell, just as a quick follow-up here,
3:24
- how important is it for leaders that might
3:26
- be listening to get this right? Why is
3:29
- it so important to get this right?
3:32
- Yeah. You know, if if you don't get
3:33
- this right, then it becomes very hard to
3:35
- do education well. And so, you know, our
3:38
- our mutual goal is, of course, to take
3:41
- care of the students and offer highly reliable
3:44
- education delivery.
3:45
- And and to do that, we really needed
3:47
- to do it together.
3:49
- This had to be a joint
3:51
- effort. This had to be a joint goal
3:53
- and process,
3:55
- because otherwise, you're gonna end up with two
3:57
- you know, the right hand is not gonna
3:58
- know what the left hand is doing.
4:00
- And this tone and the culture, like Wendy
4:02
- said, really has to be set that it's
4:04
- a it's a joint effort. We both benefit
4:07
- from each other's areas of expertise,
4:09
- academics, and operations
4:11
- that way, and you really can't do it
4:14
- well if you don't get this set right
4:15
- from the very beginning.
4:17
- Wendy, we talked a little bit about sort
4:19
- of the site to site consistency piece and
4:21
- why that's so important.
4:23
- And, again, there there's a lot of work
4:25
- that involved
4:27
- campuses in in multiple locations. Right? Portland, Minnesota,
4:30
- Colorado. So that it it gets very, very
4:32
- hard. It can get very hard. Wendy, how
4:34
- do you balance
4:36
- standardizing those operations for consistency
4:39
- while still preserving again that academic authority and
4:42
- the local identity, most importantly, of these sites?
4:46
- Perfect. Well, I definitely this is a partnership.
4:50
- So on the operation side, which is what
4:53
- my side of the house is is responsible
4:56
- for, is good at, and what we collaborate
4:59
- on,
5:00
- Operationally,
5:03
- the more consistent we can be across all
5:06
- of our programs
5:07
- creates that high reliability
5:09
- delivery in the curriculum.
5:11
- So operations
5:13
- supports curricular delivery.
5:15
- And so the more operations can move smoothly
5:19
- and be consistent,
5:22
- the better
5:23
- academic delivery can be. And the more flexible
5:27
- we can be when we need to, when
5:29
- we have different things like
5:32
- clinical,
5:32
- impact or things like that. So anything that
5:35
- can kind of come in and that's maybe
5:38
- different from
5:39
- what our norm is, and I'll give you
5:41
- an example.
5:43
- So we go we love being in the
5:45
- clinical sites. Right? It is we direct patient
5:49
- care, Holly and I both agree, is
5:51
- critically important
5:53
- to education delivery. We do we have a
5:55
- robust SIM program
5:57
- and we utilize it well, I believe,
6:01
- but it doesn't necessarily replace what we can
6:04
- get in direct clinical care either. It really
6:06
- complements, they complement each other. So with that
6:09
- said,
6:10
- clinicals are tend to be a little different
6:12
- and uncontrollable
6:14
- for us
6:15
- as an academic site.
6:17
- And so there could be a strike happening
6:20
- in our in our nursing students get sent
6:22
- back to campus or, you know, there could
6:25
- be a
6:26
- a low census on a unit or there's
6:29
- a lot of factors that happen in just
6:32
- a general health care setting that impacts students
6:35
- and impact kind of the delivery of that.
6:38
- And so those to us to me are
6:41
- are are uncontrollables.
6:43
- Right? But when we have a strong
6:46
- operational and curricular delivery,
6:49
- we can bounce and ensure we still have
6:52
- a high reliability
6:54
- product and are we have good student centered
6:57
- I don't wanna say care, but but student
7:00
- centered delivery and making sure that they're getting
7:02
- what they need when we have a strong
7:05
- foundation.
7:07
- Doctor Caldwell, we talk so much about reducing
7:09
- variability in health care quite a bit, And,
7:12
- obviously, this is this is part of that
7:14
- in in a different sense. Again, same question
7:16
- for you. How do you balance that in
7:17
- terms of standardizing these operations for consistency
7:20
- while, again, from your perspective, preserving the academic
7:23
- authority,
7:24
- certainly, and that identity?
7:26
- Some of the things that we built in
7:28
- together collaboratively
7:30
- over our partnership are standard operating procedures.
7:33
- So we really do have use a lot
7:36
- of standard operating procedures to guide
7:39
- education delivery.
7:41
- And we also try to understand and build
7:44
- in for our our teams
7:46
- that we know that there are going to
7:48
- be certain variables.
7:50
- Right? So if we end up with a
7:51
- strike in Minnesota, we have to be able
7:53
- to pivot. So, you know, it is the
7:55
- nature and has become the culture of our
7:57
- teams to not only ask is what we're
7:59
- doing student centered and how do we make
8:01
- it great for the students, but also
8:04
- how do we make sure that we are
8:06
- all moving together in the same direction using
8:08
- the same SOPs
8:10
- versus when we need to use those variable
8:13
- opportunities.
8:14
- You know, our testing center is a really
8:16
- good example of that.
8:18
- That is actually operationalized
8:20
- on, on Wendy's side of the house with
8:22
- her folks.
8:23
- But my faculty
8:24
- also had to understand and have some flexibility
8:28
- to know that not all students are going
8:31
- to be able to take the exam on
8:32
- the same day because we've got different clinical
8:35
- schedules in each of our regions.
8:37
- So our teams got together and worked out
8:39
- a process by which we have open testing
8:42
- hours
8:43
- for exams that allow
8:45
- every student, all of our 871
8:48
- students that we care for, to test within
8:50
- the same week, but not necessarily
8:52
- hem us into testing on the same day.
8:55
- So, you know, the operations of the of
8:58
- the testing center are ran through our standard
9:00
- operating procedures, but then there is flexibility and
9:04
- individual individualization
9:06
- at the campus level to account for the
9:09
- experience of the students in clinical
9:11
- and balancing all of those moving pieces together.
9:15
- Now, doctor Caldwell, for for our listeners here
9:17
- too, again,
9:18
- variability exists. Right, and and certain flexibilities exist,
9:22
- but there's also areas where that cannot happen.
9:24
- As you've just outlined, there's there's there are
9:26
- areas where standardization
9:29
- is really nonnegotiable,
9:31
- unfortunately, in in a lot of cases. How
9:33
- do you decide that? Where do you decide
9:35
- standardization
9:36
- is nonnegotiable
9:37
- versus where there's room for flexibility?
9:41
- Yeah. Again, that's a very collaborative process and
9:44
- a lot of discussions go into making those
9:46
- determinations
9:47
- across our teams. You know, we have a
9:49
- a very robust
9:51
- shared governance
9:52
- structure within the college of nursing,
9:54
- that full time faculty and our full time
9:57
- Orbis team members contribute to,
9:59
- across three different committees. So those committees really
10:02
- determine what is nonnegotiable.
10:05
- And a lot of that is set by
10:06
- our course leads through our curriculum committee where
10:09
- we're really trying to say, hey. You know,
10:11
- these policies apply to all students at all
10:14
- times.
10:15
- And how we run the simulation,
10:17
- our methodology
10:18
- applies to all students at all times.
10:21
- And that's one of the things that helped
10:23
- us achieve the Anaxel endorsements for our simulation
10:26
- centers across all of our campuses,
10:28
- is because we really have to have those
10:31
- discussions together as a group to say, this
10:33
- is absolutely
10:34
- non negotiable.
10:36
- These things have to be maintained at all
10:38
- times for all students.
10:40
- And is there
10:41
- opportunity for some variability in the operations or
10:44
- does this have to be consistent across all
10:46
- groups?
10:47
- I think that our course lead model really
10:50
- drives this, but we've also put in some
10:52
- communication loops.
10:54
- We have a lot of feedback loops and
10:57
- communication
10:59
- really drives this
11:00
- through all of our different departments,
11:03
- whether they're operational departments or curricular,
11:06
- departments.
11:07
- We do sit together and
11:10
- respect each other's input that they everybody
11:13
- brings. We have that,
11:15
- you know, we outline the processes, we walk
11:18
- through all the campuses participate
11:21
- so that if in Colorado
11:23
- there is some
11:25
- regulatory or some nuance that happens there and
11:29
- we're talking about something in Portland where it's
11:31
- Oregon,
11:32
- we have representation
11:33
- to figure out
11:35
- is this going to be a nonnegotiable
11:38
- or where can we have the most standardization
11:42
- with the little adjustments to go around and
11:45
- how does that impact the team operationally
11:48
- and then ultimately, how does that impact
11:51
- the students and the curricular delivery?
11:55
- And I think what you just mentioned, it's
11:56
- very crucial because, again, just to illustrate that
11:58
- it's not a one way street. It cannot
12:00
- be a one way street. Again, the communication
12:02
- is crucial, and it needs to happen both
12:05
- ways to be able to be effective, which
12:06
- is so important. And, Wendy, I wanna stay
12:09
- with you here.
12:10
- You've talked about, again,
12:12
- student impact and how important it is, and
12:15
- and as certainly as a lens for operational
12:17
- decisions for you too.
12:19
- Can you talk about an example of a
12:21
- moment when the most efficient operational
12:24
- choice
12:25
- wasn't necessarily the best choice for students. Right?
12:28
- It happens. And how the partnership
12:30
- worked through that trade off?
12:33
- Well,
12:34
- I think I'm gonna go back to the
12:35
- testing center with Holly Yeah. Because
12:39
- while from our perspective,
12:42
- I feel like it was the faculty
12:44
- who this really didn't work well for,
12:47
- we really did put a lot of responsibility
12:51
- and ownership
12:52
- on the student.
12:54
- So before we had a testing center, the
12:57
- students were scheduled for their exams. They all
13:01
- came in as a class or a cohort
13:04
- and they tested on the same day at
13:06
- the exact same time.
13:08
- It was really scheduled for them and
13:11
- our team, the operations side, we did their
13:13
- schedule.
13:15
- Right? As we grew
13:17
- and,
13:18
- you know, as the changing happens with clinicals
13:22
- and things like that to ensure that we
13:24
- had, the modes of delivery of our whole
13:27
- curriculum between lab and sim and direct care
13:31
- clinicals
13:32
- and then testing and open labs and practice
13:35
- times, there's so much that we really get
13:38
- into a schedule.
13:40
- We needed we, as we got larger, we
13:43
- needed to
13:44
- figure out how we could have students testing
13:47
- on different days, but that put the accountability
13:51
- for testing in the week back on the
13:54
- students.
13:55
- And that was an adjustment for them.
13:58
- So from their perspective,
14:00
- I could see them thinking that was not
14:03
- very student centered because it wasn't given to
14:06
- them, it wasn't something that we scheduled for
14:10
- them.
14:10
- And from our perspective,
14:12
- we looked at it as we're giving you
14:14
- a choice and making your schedule a little
14:17
- bit more flexible. So if you have clinical
14:19
- on a Sunday night or a Sunday
14:22
- and, you know, you have a 7AM
14:24
- exam,
14:25
- you know, maybe you you have time in
14:27
- your schedule based on where in clinical lab
14:30
- and sim are to come in on a
14:32
- Thursday.
14:33
- And, you know, so we looked at it
14:35
- as a center student centered approach.
14:38
- However, from a student perspective, I could we
14:41
- could also see
14:43
- how that taking that ownership and responsibility
14:46
- and putting it on the student could make
14:48
- them uncomfortable.
14:49
- But from our perspective,
14:51
- I think it was really a lot more
14:53
- uncomfortable for the faculty.
14:55
- So the faculty had to say, you know,
14:58
- they were used to their testing on Tuesdays
15:00
- at 10AM,
15:01
- right, and they would have all their testing
15:03
- data done. Well, now they're testing in week
15:06
- five and it could be from Monday to
15:08
- Saturday
15:09
- and
15:10
- so they have to wait till the next
15:12
- week to do all their testing analysis and
15:14
- things like that and then they're recapping content.
15:18
- So it really did change the way they
15:20
- did delivery,
15:21
- right, curriculum delivery and content delivery
15:25
- And and we thought about that and that
15:26
- was probably our biggest change process,
15:30
- but really it did impact the students as
15:32
- well because we are now putting more responsibility
15:35
- and accountability on those students. So Doctor Kotwal,
15:39
- as a member of the faculty,
15:41
- I would love to give you a chance
15:43
- here too. It's a similar experience for you.
15:46
- You know, I think that one of the
15:47
- things that we've learned and, you know, one
15:49
- of our our provost at CSP is great
15:52
- about reminding us all about this as leaders
15:54
- at the university. He says, you know, we
15:56
- don't make policies based on 20% of the
15:58
- students. We make policies on 80 you know,
16:01
- the eighty twenty rule. Right? And so when
16:03
- faculty were thinking, oh, well, if if all
16:06
- of my students aren't testing on the same
16:08
- day, I'm gonna have problems with exam integrity,
16:11
- and they're gonna tell their friends what's on
16:13
- the test. And, you know, we said, yeah.
16:15
- All of those things are possible. Right? All
16:17
- of those things are possible if we go
16:19
- to this model,
16:20
- but, you know, let's think about the advantages
16:22
- of it first, and let's not make a
16:24
- policy
16:25
- that's about testing based on 20% or less
16:28
- of the students who are going to be
16:30
- dishonest or tell their friends what's on the
16:32
- exam. Let's base our policy and our operations
16:35
- on the fact that 80% of the students
16:38
- or more are gonna do the right thing
16:39
- at the right time.
16:41
- And this really is student centered in the
16:43
- fact that we are giving them more flexibility.
16:46
- Most of our students are adults. They're nontraditional
16:49
- students with careers, and they've gotta keep a
16:52
- roof over their head and food on the
16:53
- table, and they work, and they go to
16:55
- school full time. And so this allows them
16:59
- to have a little bit more flexibility.
17:02
- And once they got over the discomfort of
17:04
- not having it scheduled for themselves,
17:07
- 80% of them or more step up and
17:09
- do it the right way over and over
17:11
- and over again.
17:12
- And now the faculty are not concerned about
17:15
- that at all.
17:16
- You know, yes. Do we still have one
17:18
- offs here and there that we have to
17:19
- deal with? But we probably would have had
17:21
- that even if we were having them test
17:23
- all at the same time. Because, you know,
17:25
- people who are going to lack integrity tend
17:28
- to do that regardless of what structures and
17:30
- processes you have in place is what we've
17:33
- learned.
17:34
- But the faculty really don't even think about
17:36
- that anymore. And so, you know, they really
17:38
- are centered on the fact that they can
17:40
- get this done. It's possible to deliver all
17:42
- of the tests in a week, get it
17:44
- analyzed,
17:45
- and still do a good job with a
17:47
- great sample to make sure that our tests
17:49
- are reliable.
17:50
- And, really, we've had less problems than I
17:52
- think what people than people were fearful about
17:54
- in the beginning.
17:56
- Is that eight the 80% thinking that you've
17:59
- just mentioned, is that crucial in making sure
18:02
- that these decisions that you're making
18:05
- actually show up where you want them to
18:07
- show up and they're not just on paper
18:09
- for the students to see?
18:11
- Yeah. I I do think that it kind
18:13
- of is at the core of,
18:15
- some of the ways that we operate is
18:17
- this eighty twenty rule because it keeps us
18:19
- out of the weeds and it keeps us
18:21
- from,
18:22
- making fear based decisions.
18:24
- Right? And operationally, if we're moving towards, you
18:27
- know, 80% of the time, we can do
18:29
- this really, really well. And here's the 20%
18:31
- of the time where we're gonna need to
18:32
- pivot and maneuver
18:34
- and be creative.
18:36
- It does set kind of an operational tone.
18:38
- And so, you know, when Wendy and I
18:40
- are working with our teams, we try to
18:42
- also look at it from that standpoint because,
18:44
- you know, 80% of the time is very
18:45
- highly reliable.
18:47
- I wanna touch a little bit more on
18:49
- you what you just mentioned.
18:51
- A lot of folks are are nontraditional
18:54
- today. Right? A lot of folks are are
18:56
- from different environments that we typically have not
18:58
- seen. You both presented at the annual CSP
19:01
- faculty retreat. You talked about
19:04
- the new era of health care. We certainly
19:06
- talk about workforce shortages,
19:07
- clinical placement constraints. And, again, we also think
19:11
- about that new kind of graduate that's needed
19:14
- that we're seeing across the country, that we're
19:15
- hoping to see across the country. From your
19:18
- perspective and and, Wendy, I'll start off with
19:20
- you here. How can these academic practice partnerships
19:23
- help nursing programs evolve their clinical education models?
19:26
- And, again, what should that strategy look like?
19:30
- Perfect. I
19:32
- I I would say, and I'm sorry for
19:34
- my thought process just
19:36
- goes a million miles an hour on this
19:37
- topic, and Holly knows we have this discussion
19:40
- a lot,
19:42
- because
19:43
- the practice partnership and the academic partnership
19:47
- are so very important
19:48
- because we have needs on each side. And
19:51
- unless we understand the needs on each side,
19:54
- we both can't meet them. So there's expectations
19:57
- and unless there's communication,
20:00
- we were actually talking earlier this week about
20:03
- moving from,
20:05
- more relational,
20:07
- clinical scheduling
20:09
- practices. You know, twenty years ago when I
20:11
- was a a new dean and director or
20:14
- even a new faculty, we had a much
20:16
- more relational
20:18
- type of clinical placement model,
20:21
- or relationship with our hospital partners.
20:24
- And now it's grown so much and they
20:26
- have there's more schools,
20:28
- there's more, you know, people asking for clinical
20:31
- placements that it's become a little more transactional.
20:35
- Right? And so,
20:37
- you know, how do we get back to
20:38
- some of that relationship but utilizing technology to
20:42
- help with the transactional
20:43
- pieces because
20:45
- there is a lot of critical thinking that
20:47
- really does or can go on when you're
20:50
- placing students, you know, from a hospital perspective
20:53
- or from an academic perspective
20:56
- and there's ways that we can work together
20:59
- to brainstorm what that looks like because our
21:01
- curriculum is broad
21:03
- and we have faculty
21:05
- that can
21:07
- help with really make any clinical experience
21:10
- meet
21:11
- curricular objectives. It's just that conversation piece is
21:15
- missing.
21:16
- I don't know if you wanna add in,
21:17
- Holly. I know we were just talking about
21:19
- this, but I think this is a really
21:21
- important relationship
21:23
- that we have been talking about and we
21:25
- talk about often. Yeah. Doctor Caldwell, go ahead.
21:28
- Yeah. I think that's true. We definitely have
21:31
- seen a shift as, you know, we grapple
21:33
- with the nursing shortage across all regions of
21:35
- The United States. We have seen more of
21:37
- a transactional.
21:38
- You know, we request placements, they give us
21:40
- placements,
21:42
- but some of those numbers are getting smaller.
21:43
- And I think a a lot on the
21:45
- health care facility side, everybody's trying to be
21:47
- fair to the number of programs that are
21:49
- out there trying to find good clinical experiences
21:52
- for students.
21:53
- But in that in a true, truly
21:56
- highly developed and functional academic and nursing education
22:00
- program partnership,
22:02
- some of those things that we used to
22:04
- do have sort of been lost along the
22:06
- wayside, like, interdisciplinary
22:08
- clinical opportunities.
22:10
- So, you know, we used to be able
22:11
- to get a group of six or eight
22:13
- students into a facility and and have some
22:16
- students have
22:17
- rotate off experiences. So you may only have
22:20
- four or five students on the med surg
22:22
- unit, but the other three to four students
22:25
- would
22:26
- be shadowing a pharmacist. They might be going
22:28
- with RT.
22:30
- They might spend some time with the nurse
22:32
- manager that day. So it it allowed the
22:35
- students to have more of a systems
22:38
- perspective
22:39
- of where nursing fits in and also see
22:42
- and become familiar with the roles of the
22:44
- other, allied and interdisciplinary
22:47
- healthcare professionals in that environment.
22:49
- So, you know, I think because in the
22:51
- trying to give placements and grant
22:54
- placements,
22:55
- we've
22:56
- kind of moved away from
22:58
- how we can really help each other and
23:00
- help students learn the systems perspective
23:03
- of where they fit into a health care
23:05
- setting
23:06
- and getting to know who who their future
23:08
- teammates will be.
23:10
- And we've also seen a shift of a
23:12
- lot of clinical placements now fall into human
23:15
- resources departments and not so much with the
23:18
- nursing personnel.
23:20
- They may ask the nurse managers if they're
23:21
- willing to have nursing students, but the actual
23:24
- coming up with the creative ways that we
23:27
- used to manage
23:29
- how students were placed in units and throughout
23:31
- the facility
23:32
- has shifted and changed in a way where
23:34
- we're kind of boxed in.
23:37
- So
23:38
- we also used to look for opportunities where
23:40
- we could support the health care facility.
23:44
- You know, how can my doctorally prepared faculty
23:47
- assist their the health care partner with their
23:50
- magnet status? Can we help with research? Can
23:53
- we help sit on committees that are going
23:55
- to help you?
23:56
- So there used to be a
23:58
- lot more give and take and opportunities
24:01
- where we it was a two way street,
24:03
- really. So you've got very valuable student help
24:07
- and faculty help, not just us taking clinical
24:10
- placements from you, but it was a true
24:12
- partnership and collaboration.
24:14
- Wendy and doctor Collins, it's so great, doctor
24:16
- Caldwell. It's so great to have you both
24:18
- here. I wanna close this out just really
24:20
- briefly here.
24:22
- Putting this all together,
24:24
- and, doctor Caldwell, I'll start off with you.
24:27
- Why is it so critical for health care
24:29
- to do this right now, to scale these
24:32
- partnerships, to work on these partnerships, and certainly
24:34
- also from both the faculty and
24:37
- student perspective to embrace them?
24:40
- We know we have, a critical nursing shortage
24:43
- going forward,
24:44
- and we know that there are not going
24:46
- to be fewer nursing programs in The United
24:48
- States. We are going to continue to try
24:51
- to meet
24:52
- this workforce pipeline need by having more nursing
24:55
- students in nursing programs.
24:57
- And so now is the time for us
25:00
- to really reflect on how we can
25:02
- leverage the relationship
25:04
- style clinical placement
25:06
- to produce competent graduates,
25:09
- not just graduates that have hours under their
25:11
- belt, but how can we actually ensure that
25:14
- they're competent
25:16
- through observable,
25:18
- demonstratable
25:19
- behaviors,
25:20
- knowledge, and skills in that clinical environment. At
25:23
- the same time, when we know we have
25:25
- shortages, staff
25:27
- nurses are tired. You know, now is the
25:30
- time we need to get together and really
25:31
- figure this out and be creative in our
25:34
- solutions,
25:35
- and have nursing education operations also
25:38
- that support flexibility where flexibility is warranted.
25:42
- Right? And then stem still maintain those nonnegotiables
25:45
- to make sure that we're delivering highly reliable
25:48
- education that's going to help
25:50
- fix,
25:51
- hopefully, having competent, compassionate,
25:54
- and,
25:55
- confident nursing students out there when they graduate.
25:58
- Wendy, anything to add here?
26:00
- Yeah. I agree with what Holly just said,
26:03
- and I'll just add on that, you know,
26:05
- our hospital and clinical
26:08
- partners are looking for ways to reduce orientation
26:11
- times,
26:12
- for ways to get nurses more practice ready
26:14
- coming out of school
26:16
- and that really is a partnership
26:19
- with their local
26:20
- academic colleges
26:23
- because that each area is different, each area
26:26
- of the country, I mean we all have
26:28
- similarities.
26:29
- I have partnerships across the West Coast,
26:32
- and into the Midwest
26:34
- and
26:35
- there are a lot of similarities,
26:37
- but there are a lot of, you know,
26:39
- little nuances
26:40
- in each area
26:42
- that
26:43
- we they we could partner. Academic and health
26:46
- care can partner to have better outcomes on
26:49
- both sides. How do how do we, you
26:51
- know, work to decrease,
26:55
- their orientation
26:56
- times and how can they help with developing
26:59
- our nurses?
27:00
- Because as Holly said earlier,
27:02
- things are tightening up. Another example that Holly
27:06
- didn't give is there are a lot of
27:07
- restrictions on our students
27:09
- going into clinical facilities and those get more
27:12
- and more every year from
27:15
- new nursing, you know, nursing students cannot give
27:17
- meds
27:18
- to some places will not let them start
27:21
- IVs and do skills
27:22
- and things like that. But then we hear
27:24
- on the other side that they're not practice
27:26
- ready. So it's a double edge and that
27:29
- conversation's
27:30
- gonna have to happen and that communication
27:32
- needs to open up so that
27:35
- each side is getting what they need
27:37
- out of, you know, it's a relationship whether
27:40
- we want it to be or not, you
27:41
- know, or whether somebody does, we enjoy it.
27:44
- But whether you want it to be a
27:46
- relationship or not, it really is because we
27:48
- are trying to produce the future of nurses
27:51
- and you need and the hospitals need that
27:53
- future of nurses.
27:55
- And so how can we come together and
27:57
- really look at
27:59
- what are the policies? So what why are
28:02
- you saying that you don't want them to
28:03
- do this? Is there a way that we
28:05
- can help come together
28:07
- and figure out the the little nuances so
28:10
- that
28:11
- the students are getting the experience they need
28:13
- and you're getting a more practice ready or
28:16
- a shorter, you know, orientation
28:18
- time, whatever it is you're looking for.
28:21
- But I think that the conversation,
28:24
- like doctor Caldwell Caldwell said, is is very
28:27
- appropriate and the time is now.
28:29
- Again, we come back to the two Way
28:31
- street like we've talked about earlier in our
28:32
- conversation. So so crucial. Wendy, doctor Caldwell, thank
28:36
- you so much for being here, for taking
28:37
- some time for us. What a fantastic conversation.
28:39
- I also want to thank Orbis Education for
28:41
- bringing us together for this conversation, for sponsoring
28:43
- today's conversation.
28:45
- You can tune in to more podcasts from
28:46
- Becker's Healthcare by visiting our podcast page at
28:49
- beckershospitalreview.com.