Latest / The SME Stream / Nicola Willis: Finance Minister doesn't believe New Zealand will be impacted by Donald Trump's proposed tariffs

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Nicola Willis: Finance Minister doesn't believe New Zealand will be impacted by Donald Trump's proposed tariffs · The SME Stream

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Nikola Willis, of course, is the Finance Minister. Hi Nikola, Hello,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: heav are you doing anything about this IID privacy breach?
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Look, the IID have obviously made that information known to
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: the Privacy Commissioner and it's now a matter for the
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Privacy Commissioner.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Did they explain to you how this happened.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: They have given me a briefing their view that this
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: is a small error and they are doing what's right
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: in the situation, which is they're sharing all of the
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: information with the Privacy Commissioner so that they can make
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: any findings that may be necessary.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I find weird about this and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: can't quite get my head around, is if they have
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: got all of this information on us, and they do,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: If they've got all this information on us and they
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: need to get ahold of us, why aren't they just
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: getting a hold of us. Why are they giving the
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: information to Facebook and LinkedIn and these guys try to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: get a hold of us.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Well, there's two separate things here. The first is, yes,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: they can get hold of us they want to. The
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: second thing is often what IID want to make sure
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: people have is good information about their tacks. Entitlements and obligations,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: and so they have historically used social media as a
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: way of targeting information at relevant taxpayers. They've obviously reviewed
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: the way that they've done that. They've made a decision
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: not to do that anymore, in line with their commitment
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: to upholding the higher standards of privacy. And that's a
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: good thing.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't get it. I mean, so if
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, Heather needs to HEATHERN needs to know
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that she needs to pay her taxes by the end
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of the financial year, why don't they just send me
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: an email? Why are they giving money to Facebook?
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: Not everyone opens their email? Do that? And people spend
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of time scrolling on Facebook and social media.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Think it simply about the IID trying to bring information
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: to where people are.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: But surely you're going to have a higher chance of
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the person opening the email than the person potentially seeing
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: it on Facebook.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Look. I think the nature of this kind of advertising
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: was that they were able to target particular information at
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: groups of people to whom it was BALI us.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, let's literally what you do with an email which
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: is free.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Look, I don't think the IID would have done this
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: practice unless they believe that it was a better way
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: to get information.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Really, you have too much confidence, and then they just
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: hand it over The details were two hundred and seventy
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: thousand people to these guys.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's right. They have assured me that
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: they scrubbed data in a way that no one's individual.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Not in the case of the two hundred, not in
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: the case of the quarter million, right in the case
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of the quarter million, they just hand it over all data.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Well, in this case, I want New Zealanders who are
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: listening to your show to know that their individual tax
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: information hasn't been compromised. There has been an issue here
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: that has been brought to the attention of the Privacy Commissioner,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: and IID are making sure that they are using best
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: practice in future.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Do you think can you be absolutely sure though, that
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: they are not just wasting money on advertising for the
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: sake of wasting money on advertising.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty comf about that heither, because there's a couple
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: of things that are important to me. One that people
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: are who are due tax refunds or a DOE money
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: back know that and are getting their entitlement. And two
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: that where the government is o tax IID are chasing
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: that hard, and so it's important that the IID use
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: the resources it has to go after both of those things.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: As I say, they've reviewed this practice, they're not using
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: it in future. That's a good thing, Okay, are they like? Okay?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I can understand that maybe there are some numpties out
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: there who never check the email accounts. It would be
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: a very few of them. But are the IID before
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: they're hitting Facebook and LinkedIn to try and advertise it us.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Are they first just sending us a free email and
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: then if we're not opening it and responding, then they're
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: going for the advertising.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Look, they may be. You'd have to talk to them
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: to understand the detail of their practices, But I just
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: do want to be a bit real world here. Okay.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: A lot of people get a lot of emails, and
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: it's not necessarily the case every email gets opened, but
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: sometimes we see things flash up on our social media
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: account and that can be a promptu action. So I
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: know that it's the practice of many organizations to do both,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: to do both email and advertising on other digital platforms.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's an unusual thing.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, Listen, have you caught up on this business about
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: the banks forcing our dairy farmers to emit less than
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: the Aussie dairy farmers.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Look, I have heard a little bit about that. I
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: haven't been briefed fully on it. It's something I'm interested in.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: It's one of the matters I expect the Parliamentary Selectmmittee
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: inquiry will want to delve deeper into.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Have you asked you haven't talked to the banks then
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: if you've just got the first hint of what's going on,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: you haven't have a chat to them.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Yet, not yet. But as I say, this is one
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: of the issues that I think the Parliamentary Selectmmittee should
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: inquire into. They should be asking questions of the banks
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: about it. It's important we get full information about this.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Where I'm coming from is I want a growing productive
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: economy that means farmers having access to capital, that means
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: farmers being able to expand and grow and export more.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: And I don't want the bank standing in the way
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: of that.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: No, And on the face of it, do you feel
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: I feel slightly uncomfortable that banks are getting involved in
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: the climate stuff with our farmers? What about you?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Well? The thing that particularly struck me when I heard
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: your conversation with Jamie Mackay about this issue was that
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: there was a sense that there might be different rules
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: at play in New Zealand. Yes, there are than in Australia,
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: and that worries me because I want there to be
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: at the very least a level playing field, and if
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I'm honest, I want it to be even easier for
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: New Zealand farmers than Ossie farmers. And so any idea
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: that it's been made harder for our farmers to access capital,
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: that the Ossie banks are mating it making it hard
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: for Kiwi farmers, I don't like the smell of that.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: No, not at all. Okay, listen, is it true that
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: some public servants are not allowed to use Uber and
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: they have to use taxis?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I understand that there has been a guideline
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: from the Department of Internal Affairs discouraging the use of Uber.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Now this has been brought to the TAMS of the
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Public Service Commission. They're having a look at it. I'm
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: going to fess up right here right now. I use
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Uber pretty regularly. I pay for it personally, and the
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: reason I do that is it's convenient, it's cheap, and
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: I love chatting with Uber drivers?
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Did do you know why?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: So?
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Did you say it was inland revenue or who was it?
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: Internal Affairs?
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: The Department of Internal Affairs?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Why did they say no Uber?
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: Well, look, you'd have to ask them about that. But
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: as I say, this is something I'm very open for
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: change in because you know, technology changes, the way people
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: do things changes, and it seems just to me perhaps
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: a little old fashioned, too.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Right, and it's miles cheaper. Now, have you do you
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: reckon you? Or have we as a country gotten in
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: with Trump? Because Elon loves Christopher MUCKs the Christopher Luxon.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I've made one person out of two people,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Christopher Luxon, Elon loves Luxon.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Interesting that come to my mind with that description. Look,
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: both the Prime Minister and the Minister for Foreigner Fears
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: have been very careful to make sure they have relationships
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: in place with both Republican and Democratic side of politics
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: coming under the presidential election, and I think that there's
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: every reason to believe that New Zealand can have a
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: close relationship with the incoming administration. Obviously there's big points
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: of commonality between the United States of America and New Zealand.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: There's many things which are in our dual interests to pursue.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Does it help that Elon says nice things about the
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: New Zealand Prime minister on Twitter?
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Probably if Trump does go ahead and pull out of
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the Paris Accord, does that basically mean the thing falls over?
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: That's over, isn't it?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Well? Look, I wouldn't jump into judgment there. Obviously, the
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: new administration hasn't even started yet. How they engage with
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: those global treaties is yet to be seen. But for
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: New Zealand's part, we have a Zero Carbon Act and law.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: We're on track to deliver to those objectives, reducing admissions,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: having renewable affordable energy. Those are good thing regardless of
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: what happens with those international treaties.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: If he pulls the funding from Ukraine, do we pull
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: the funding from Ukraine?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I would not jump into speculating on that either. That's
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: a matter for the Foreign Affairs Minister. I'm sure that
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: it's something that he will be considering. But again, far
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: too soon to judge how the United States will respond,
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: And of course the administration doesn't start till next year.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: So but to order to go on to the bridge
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: to then, how do you rate the chances that we
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: get slapped with tariffs.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Well, look, here's what I reckon. Trade is about, the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: exchange of value. For it to makes sense, it needs
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: to benefit both sides. And when I look at New
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Zealand's growing trade relationship with the United States, whether it's
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: red meat, whether it's wine, whether it's tourism, it's clear
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: the Americans like what we're selling. Equally we import a
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: hic of a lot from the Americans. It works for
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: both sides. We have a close, positive relationship. So if
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: there's any country in the world that the United States
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: should look favorably upon in trade, I'd pick New Zealand.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Nichola, thank you, always appreciate your time. That's Nichola Willis,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: the Finance Minister. Do you get the feeling Nichola didn't
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: know that the id had handed over the private details
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: of two hundred and seventy thousand people without even encrypted,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Do you do? I felt like that was new information
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to her, that they'd made that big whoopsie with the
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: raw data and just handed it over to like, whoop,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: here you go, Facebook, here's all of her this's contact details.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like that was news to her. What do
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you think