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Killer Ideas—Crafting Murder in Cozy Mysteries · Reality Writes

0:05
SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I am author Ellie Alexander and I'm here with the tech guy.
0:13
SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh today, what are we talking about today?
0:18
SPEAKER_00: Today we are talking about murder methods.
0:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, methods of murder.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: Great.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: This one will get us banned for sure.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: We'll be on some list after this.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: But uh so before we get put on some list and uh get get our episode taken down, be sure to click the button, follow us so you don't miss an episode.
0:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, like us, give us a good review, um, you know, and like say how great the murder ideas were.
0:44
SPEAKER_01: It would be really helpful.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, we really want to hear from you.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: So drop comments in uh and uh be sure to follow us.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's awesome.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, so this idea comes to us from Cherry, um a longtime darling.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: And uh when she suggested it, I was like, oh, this is brilliant.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: However, however, we should put up front that there might be a couple spoilers in terms of how I have fictionally, fictionally um killed off characters in the past.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: And before we discuss any of those, we'll make sure to be like, you know, hey, warning, this is it.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, but enter at your own risk.
1:29
SPEAKER_01: So spoiler alert.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Spoiler alert.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: Not yet, but we there will be eventually when we get to a couple books.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Most of the murder methods we know from the back cover.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not seeing those as as spoilers, but there are a couple things that we don't understand the method until further into a story.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: So for those, I do feel like it's a spoiler.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm just trying to think of a uh uh sound that we could play for people like an alarm.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Actually, that sounds like the emergency broadcast signal.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's a good one.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh that might give people the wrong idea altogether.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: Um somebody's listening and we'll just go we'll just go verbally.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: We'll just go with verbally.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:16
unknown: Yeah.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Because I don't want that's the other thing.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to make it a siren.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: That'd be bad.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, yeah.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you got a ice coffee.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm drinking my iced coffee.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got mine too.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Boy mount, rough house.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: No, you what are you drinking?
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh I'm drinking my chogacino.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Your chogacino.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: This is your my mushroom coffee.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Mushroom coffee.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: It's got all the all the uh vitamins, minerals, everything a grown boy needs.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps could mask the flavor of a poison, is all I'm saying.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: That's why I made my coffee and didn't let you make it.
2:55
unknown: Right.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: So poisoning coffee, is that number one?
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Is that the number one murder method on the host?
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, since I write cozy mysteries, I think we should start the episode by talking about the fact that, you know, I believe that we've discussed this before, but as a general rule, the murder is not center stage, so to speak.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So yes.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: The action takes place off the page.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's gonna be a body, yes, somebody's gonna die.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but we're not gonna spend hours and hours and hours peeling all the details away at a crime scene like you would in a CSI or a thriller or true crime.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was just gonna say there's probably not going to be that level of forensic um detail, right?
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Definitely not.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: No.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: No, because again, a pastry chef or a brewer or a bookseller is gonna be invited onto the crime scene.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: So there's that.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: That happens all the time.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: I want to go back to the OG, the very first series that I wrote, um, which takes place in Portland, Oregon.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: We were living in Portland at the time.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: I knew that I wanted to write a mystery, but I didn't know what it was yet.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: I had no vision for what it was gonna be.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: And we were um fortuitously on a hiking trip one weekend, and I spotted this young woman.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: I've told this story a zillion times, so apologies, darlings, if you've heard it before.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: But um, she was dressed in hot pink and she was with these like burly big mountain guys, these Oregon mountaineers, and they're like black and their Columbia sportswear and everything.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: And I could not get her out of my head.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: But we happened to be hiking um Angel's Rest that weekend, which is beautiful.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like you hike up 2,000 feet, it's good elevation, and then yeah, yeah, you get your heart rate pumping.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's switchbacks too.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: So you get you get a few little rests, but it's it's it's a climb.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: And when you get up to the top, there's sort of this like flat, rocky outcropping with these big boulders and everything, and then you have sweeping views of the Columbia River.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: It's on the Oregon side.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: 2,000 feet below.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: 2,000 feet below.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's on the Oregon side of the Columbia River.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: So you're looking out to the entire Washington side and then the the whole gorge is there.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, I thought, you know, especially venturing in to my first attempt at writing a mystery, pushing somebody off the edge of said cliff would be sort of a good gateway drug into writing a mystery because there's there's not a lot of other things involved.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: It's just somebody's getting shoved and end of story, right?
5:45
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so you called was it the Hood County?
5:51
SPEAKER_01: What what's the county out there?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: Hood River, yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: Hood River, yeah, county sheriff's office, and you just asked them what happens when you push somebody off a cliff.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: I did indeed.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: I did indeed, because I was none the wiser at the time.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: I had to start looking at our bank accounts at that point and be like, I wonder how much bail is for uh clearly this woman is planning to kill someone, so it feels like the quintessential cozy way to murder somebody, though, right?
6:22
SPEAKER_00: Because um, you know, you don't have to do a lot of focus on the crime scene.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: The body goes off the edge, so we don't really have to see it.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: There's no there's no blood or guts.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I mean, unfortunately, like the crew that has to go retrieve the body and bring it back up would.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, as far as easy crime scenes go, that was that was my entry in just a nice shove off the cliff.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: No one's the wiser, except for the Hood River County Sheriff, who I did call.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think that was two or three weeks later, because we went home from that hike.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: We got home from that hike and I started writing the book.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: And I got to the point in that book where the murder happens, and then I had no idea like who would come.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Because you're out in the middle of nowhere, you're on a hiking trail.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, who shows up?
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I can't believe this in hindsight because I did not have a I didn't have an agent, I didn't have a book deal, I hadn't even written the book yet.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: I just called up and said, Hey, I'm I'm writing this mystery and I'm curious, and they were so helpful.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, old helpful.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Oldest cover in the book.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: So for all you aspiring murderers out there, just tell tell them you're a writer and you're just researching a plot.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Just to it's research, it's all in the name of research.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: They were great.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: What is your exact response time at this location?
7:42
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
7:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: How much time do I have to run back down the trail so nobody will see me?
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, I feel like that method of murder, uh and and maybe this is unique to me, um, because a lot of my writing does incorporate the outdoors because so much of it is set in the Pacific Northwest and now California, and we spend so much time outside and hiking.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think that's just sort of a secondary part of the culture here on the West Coast.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, not the murder part, but hiking and rafting and skiing.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, the whole first series that I wrote uh is all set outdoors with an outdoor journalist.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: So um there's a piece of that.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: I do have I do have two ideas for future books in that series that I that I haven't used yet involving outdoor sports.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, save those for later.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the cliffs since we've since we've moved to California, the cliffs are not um the thing that has worried me as much as it is the number of rattlesnake warnings that we walk by every time we go on a hike.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: I'd almost rather be pushed off.
8:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, maybe not.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: I know, and how could you how could uh a killer train a snake?
9:05
SPEAKER_00: How could they get their victim in the right place?
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they would go and scope out the trail and know where like a nest is, especially with the babies, because they're the most dangerous in the new.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, the little baby rattlesnakes.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they don't have they they can't control the amount of venom that's released.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: So you definitely don't want to get bitten by a baby rattlesnake.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: No.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: See, this is what happens on reality rights.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: We are here plotting out a future murder with you, darlings.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: It's happening in front of your own eyes and ears.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: I know, but being the one that goes hiking with you, I'm more than a little nervous right now.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's fair.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so that segues me into um the second book.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even so the first book is called Scene of the Climb.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: The second book is Wait, can I caveat something for us?
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: The Pacific Northwest Mysteries and Scene of the Climb and the books you're talking about now.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: Don't go buy these.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Please don't.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: And this is a weird, you're gonna the darlings are like, What?
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, why is he saying no go buy?
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Don't go buy them because I think we've talked about this on a previous episode, but just in case, I just want to put this a PSA for everybody.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: PSA.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: We got the rights back to that five book series and are going to be releasing uh you know updated versions of them, the the Ellie's version.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Ellie's version.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: We're doing Ellie's version of all five books in that series, yeah.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so those will be next year.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: That's the goal next year, yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Which is like right around the corner.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like what's September.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: How's it September?
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but anyway, so please don't go buy those.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: You you can't find them in print uh really anywhere.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: And if you do, they're like generally really expensive uh through some reseller.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh the you'll have an opportunity to get them uh in a few months.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: So the Ellie's version, the right edition of the covers.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm giving them all a little refresher.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: It's been fun to go back in time to that first series and where it all started.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just wanted to put that out there because people are probably like right now, like, oh my gosh, another series.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't heard of that one yet.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: Just don't don't even go look it up.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: No, you'll hear about it.
11:22
SPEAKER_01: 2025, they're coming.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're coming, they're coming.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but so the second book in that series um involves a gunshot.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: And I would say that's right, it was a gunshot, right?
11:37
SPEAKER_00: I know, yeah, and I had totally forgotten about that until I was doing the reread and refreshing them.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: It's also hilarious, it's an aside, but um, I dated myself in a lot of the language because oh wow, I didn't know where you're going with that.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: You dated what?
11:52
SPEAKER_01: I was like, wait, what?
11:53
SPEAKER_00: We were married at that time, so I'm like no, yeah, I dated myself with some of the language, so I'm going through that too, because you know, it's like circa 2012, and she's like, it's totes ridiculous.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, that doesn't really hold up.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: I guess it's historical fiction now, but it doesn't hold up.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, yeah, not in a good way.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Not in a good way.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, so lesson learned, writers, don't go too heavy on current slang unless there's a good reason for it.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, I learned that lesson the hard way.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but um in book choose laid on the slopes, they're up at the Silcox hut at Mount Hood.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're snowed in, it's a giant storm, and she thinks she hears like, you know, thunder, but it's actually a gunshot out in the snow.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: And um I would say very rarely are guns used in my writing, and certainly, you know, on a broader level, in the cozy in general, um, you just see it much less because I think there's again, then you've got forensic involved.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: You've and there's also something about like, I don't know, like it shouldn't, but if we're talking about like a little push, just a little push for harder or you know, maybe a little slip of poison somewhere, it feels slightly cosier than a gunshot.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: But my second book did involve a gunshot, albeit an old rifle.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think though like when you bring guns into it, I think then it it like necessitates like a like heavier police response.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: And so then it makes it like I know you you need to suspend belief a little bit in the cozy genre to begin with, but I think if if everybody was just getting shot, you know, there I think there would be a heavier police person.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know I know Ty down John and Ashley, the police chief left, like he's like, this never happened, like it's never in a million years, but but um I think if it you know keeping it keeping the murder method cozy helps with yeah kind of suspension of reality a little bit.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So exactly.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, and we had him on a panel for Mystery Fest last year, and um it was so much fun.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he had everybody rolling in the aisles.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: I think we talked about it briefly.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: But um, one thing that he also talked about is just sort of all of the new technology that police use, you know, like geotargeting with your phone location and all of these things that are great in real life, harder on a mystery writing perspective because it's almost like even having a cell phone is a bummer sometimes because you want to put your sleuth in peril.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: You also, for me, I don't want to write um, you know, I want to write strong female characters, so I don't want her to seem like, oh, I left my phone at home again or whatever.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the good thing about Ashland and then also setting um a series out in the wilderness is that you still don't have reception out there.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: So that's helpful.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: But um, some of the techniques that the police currently use would solve the case really fast.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: So you wouldn't have much of a book.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: But pastry chefs don't have access to that uh technology.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: True, right?
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Good point.
15:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Touche.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: I would say that real life inspires me probably more than anything when it comes to murder methods.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: So I'm thinking about Live and Let Pie in this book.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Jules is out at Immigrant Lake, which is a real place in Ashland.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Also has rattlesnakes.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Also has rattlesnakes that we didn't learn until after, like we would have Dot off the leash and running wild.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that was we were lucky.
15:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh and the lake is prone to drought.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: And when drought happens, um you and we've talked about we talked about this, I think, on another episode in terms of things that inspire me in terms of real life.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: But um, when the lake levels are low, you can see remnants of the old town that exists under the lake bed, Kalameth Junction.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: And so there was a newspaper article about these two young girls who were swimming in the lake um and came up with uh bubblegum from an old bubblegum machine.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, instead, they'll come up with a skull because you know that's what you would do.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and drowning seems like another pretty easy murder method.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: And this was an old murder, too.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And so there's no spoiler there.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: We know this in the back of the book.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh yeah, getting to use actual events or places, locations that make sense then for murder, I think, is another tool that a cozy mystery writer can use.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: Like in inspired by real life events.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, there's uh actually um there have been, despite your series, the Bake Shop Mystery series, there have been relatively few murders in the city of Ashland uh at least over the years.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's a town of about 20,000 people, so like Kurt Capita, definitely not the murder capital of the world, um, outside the pages of your your mystery series.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's like real life events, even um, like uh Mount Ashland was the inspiration for for a recent book, right?
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: And this always happens, and you can attest to this.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: We'll be out enjoying an experience, and I'll be like, hey, this would be great for murder.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it wasn't so bad in Ashland because as a small enough town, we knew a lot of people.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and people knew what like you you were generally known in terms of what you did and everything, but but like down here in California, we're walking down the street and you talk about you start talking about murder, and it's like, God, don't what are you doing?
18:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, we're totally gonna get arrested.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, definitely questioned.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Because we're we'll just be walking down the street, uh, we've got our coffees, bright sunny day, and all of a sudden she'll turn to me and say, I just thought of the perfect way to kill someone.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Just that's not what you want to hear when you're walking by a couple on the street.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's pretty great.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: So we were at um the Downhill Dummy Competition, which is a real competition that takes place in the winter in Ashland.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: Local groups, community groups, Boy Scouts, you name it, um put together these dummies and then they send them down the ski slope.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: They launch them down the ski jump.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: And the goal is to like catch big air and have them have a massive crash.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: And spectators like us line the slope and watch it happen.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: And of course, I was like, well, this is a brilliant way to kill someone.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because the dummies themselves just go flying.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's downhill, they put up safety fencing, and all the spectators stand on the other side of the fence, and then they just you send you the goal is to get the most air off the jump at the end of the ramp, and then also to have the most spectacular crash.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of these downhill dummies have life-size dummies, and when they go off the jump, that the thing just explodes, and um, and you know, it'll look like a body is flying through the air.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: And and those those are the ones that just get people out.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just like they're just like the best ones.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's I think we have some videos of it on YouTube.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, we do check it out.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's a blast.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Like if you're ever in the Ashland area in the winter and you have a chance to see it, highly recommend it.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Highly recommend it.
19:56
SPEAKER_00: Actually, we'll get back to murder methods in one second, but I do have to share for any of the darlings who are coming to the Ashland Mystery Festival here.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, the Mount Ashland is getting involved.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: So they're gonna do a haunted chairlift.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: So you'll go up and you'll ride the chairlift at night, and there are gonna be all kinds of like spooky sounds and lights and things in the forest.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: So aw, if you have a chance, be sure to get tickets for that.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so fun.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that sounds awesome.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, okay, so you know, anything that is real life is usually my launching point.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we were uh at a brewery and I was working on Death on Tap, the first book in the Sloan Krauss mysteries, and she worked on research.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Doing research.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: We're a brewery doing research.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: Important.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: We had to get the details right.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Come on.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was just looking at the big tanks, and I thought, well, gosh, like that's a great place for a body.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
21:00
SPEAKER_01: Gosh.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: That's not gonna be a good stout.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Um might be an unintentional sour.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you helped with that one because I was like, okay, well, what what could that be like?
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Because I wanted the body in the tank, and there's so much cleaning that happens in a brewery.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, but somebody had to be like up at the top, and then there's like a hatch.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And so the the killer would have had to like go up the ladder and push them in.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Again, this one's not a spoiler because this happens right away off the page.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, no, but but that's that's the beauty of the research that that um that you've always been so uh passionate about doing.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: And and I was glad that you were passionate about doing research for the beer series.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Um but we just went and talked to brewers at at different breweries.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: And and they were happy to show us everything.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: And my experience with homebrewing obviously is on a much smaller scale, but I still knew about the machines that they have at the larger craft and and uh you know size brewery.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: Um but it was great, especially like uh Blue It, like guys out at Blue It Brewing and Leavenworth were the series of set.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: They were so helpful and so and same for icicle brewing and showing us all that machinery.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: And you can see like Icicle's bigger than Blue It, so Icicle has these monstrous tanks in there, and Blue It had their their tanks are plenty big enough to fit a body.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: And so it was that was kind of like it was great because I could just see the light bulb go off in your your uh eyes when she opened the hatch, and and he's like, look in there, and you leaned over and I just kind of put my hand on your back, and you're like, Yeah, it's like yeah, that's how it would do it.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you just push him in and then quickly close the hatch, walk back down the ladder.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Done.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Done until somebody goes to pour a tasting beer, and they're like, This is weird.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I feel like the like cozy, really, because of Agatha, probably more than anyone else, it demands a good poison every now and then.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and poison is something that has shown up historically um in many of my books in the book that comes out this month, the third book in the secret bookcase, uh uh Death at the Dinner Party.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: It's already September.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: September 20th.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, September 20th.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh 30th.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: 30th?
23:48
SPEAKER_00: 30th.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna look it up real quick.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm right.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: Look it up.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: Keep talking about poison.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay, prove me right.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: Prove me right.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, so in this book, Annie and Pre, her best friend, are hosting an immersive murder mystery dinner party at um Penny Penny, who is Pre's girlfriend, um, at her estate.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And they have actors, and somebody's supposed to drop dead in terms of one of the actors, but then one of the guests actually drops dead.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: And you guessed it, they have been slipped poison in their wine, which is, I mean, I don't think you can get more cozy than that.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a it's a touch of clue.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: It always feels just um kind of like a winner.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: Of course, then you have to figure out like, how did the killer procure the poison?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: And then all of like the details of how do you like have sleight of hand to slip it in a drink when you're at a dinner party with 40 people watching?
24:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's always the fun challenge part of writing.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: But um, poison feels like if you're writing a cozy at some point in time, you gotta slip a little poison in.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: Or and it is September 30th.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: You were right.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Was it did the last space shop come out on the 20th last month?
25:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: You have too many books.
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh have we we haven't given any spoiler alert warnings?
25:16
SPEAKER_00: The next one.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: No, I know the next one is a spoiler.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: The next one is a spoiler.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: All the all the others that we've talked about, you would have read on the back cover of the book, right?
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this one is a spoiler.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay, spoiler alert.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Spoiler alert, spoiler alert.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: This is from Fudge and Jury.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we're going all the way back to book five of the big shop mysteries series on this.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Five of the big shop mysteries.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm working on like an idea for this book.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: I know that it's going to be set at the annual chocolate festival in Ashland, which is again a real thing.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: And I was doing an appearance, a book signing at a spice shop in Portland.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I just remembered which one this was.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: I was doing a signing and um I was chatting with the owner.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was great because they had all these delicious like snacks and tastings for the spices, and then we were just talking about spice in general.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: And he casually mentioned that um people who have a nut allergy are also usually deathly allergic to pink peppercorn because pink peppercorn is actually a nut.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So if you have a nut allergy, a tree nut allergy, it's most likely that you are also allergic to pink peppercorn.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And he was telling me the story about how um they had to put like warning labels and everything on it.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm frantically taking notes in my mind because I'm like, what?
26:51
SPEAKER_00: This is brilliant.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just yeah.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: I have to kill somebody this way.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: So somebody in that book ingests pink peppercorn and they have a nut allergy and they don't know it.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: But then after the fact, I felt kind of guilty because I'm like, I feel like I should this should be a public service announcement.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: I shouldn't be telling people about this, right?
27:11
SPEAKER_01: That's not I mean, I was just saying, like, thank you, English language.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Like it shouldn't be peppercorn nut.
27:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I kind of feel like it it should include that word because people are nuts, nuts are like no joke.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Like that is that is a good way to um murder someone if you they have a nut allergy.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh unfortunately.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: No, it's severely allergic reactions very clever and cunning from a writing perspective, but also terrifying.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: I think that you know, if you have a severe nut allergy, that that's in the ethos out there.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: But um definitely well it's one of those things, right?
27:52
SPEAKER_01: You're not allergic to nuts, I'm not allergic to nuts, or son's not allergic to nuts, so it's just like it's one of those things you probably don't know.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you're you're probably right.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: If if somebody in like if any of the darlings out there are definitely allergic to nuts or have family members who are, they probably know this.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: But I would I would say that one's probably not widely known.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't think it was widely known.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I remember the comments that came after that book came out.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: People were like, What?
28:17
SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So exactly, yeah.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Or you just think like and and um pink peppercorn was kind of having a moment at that point, you know.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I felt like it was like everywhere on pastas that we went.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh but of course, this horse my shop owner is like, you know, being lovely and giving me all this information.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: And I then am just in my head the whole time, like, oh my gosh, okay, how do I like get out of here and start writing this right now?
28:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you said to kill somebody, and they're like, what?
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh in my book.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: In my book.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the other thing that I would say before we wrap up our murder methods episode is that once I started writing mysteries, and Cozy's in particular, our friends and family, without fail, suggest murder methods all of the time.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: It is funny.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a little scary, honestly.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Like the the number of people we know who just like I because I kind of wonder like, have you always been thinking about ways to kill people, or did you just start after Ellie started writing books, right?
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I just like it's a little it's sometimes it's a little concerning, actually.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: Some of the ideas that people have come up with where I'm like, oh, I you've put some thought.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: Are you going to you gotta tell the one about your dad?
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you tell it.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh well.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: So he's at our niece's uh choir concert at a church, no less.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's sitting there watching his granddaughter sing up on stage and just looks up at you know the really vaulted ceiling, and there's just this massive chandelier there, this giant ornate chandelier.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: And the first thought that comes to his mind is not, oh, that's an amazingly beautiful chandelier, or I wonder how they got that up there or anything.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: No, it's like that's a great way to kill somebody.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: You just drop that thing right down.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not a particularly religious person myself, but there are things I don't think you think about in church, and that would be one of them.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I'm gonna go out on a limb.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but I just like that one, and he was so excited to tell you about that.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: He called me on the way home, and he was like, You're not gonna believe this.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I've got a great idea for you.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: And I just wow, yeah.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was uh um we were driving with a couple of friends uh up uh Mount Hood.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: Um so for the darlings who don't know, it's it's a mountain.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Um it's got it's got a lot of forests.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh we're driving and we were back on uh we were going for a hike and we were back on like kind of a service road.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: And so it was kind of in the middle of nowhere.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: And and my friend just turns to me and he's like, You could totally hide a body out here, and nobody would ever find it.
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, What?
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Why is that what you're thinking about right now?
31:29
SPEAKER_01: Like what you're thinking about where you can hide a body?
31:32
SPEAKER_01: Whose body and why?
31:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, I have so many questions.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't understand.
31:39
SPEAKER_00: I think it's great.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: I hear from the darlings all the time, too.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not just friends and lots of email suggestions about ways to murder people.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: And I do think there's something about like, you know, you kind of get to explore your shadow side, you get to look into this piece of you that you probably, you know, don't spend a lot of time thinking about and do that on like a fictional level is probably healthy, I think.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, as long as you're yeah, yeah, fictional, fictional is the way it's uh fictional, fictional, yeah.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: No, I yeah, totally I get it.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody's being creative.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Um uh I do appreciate it when people share ideas with you.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do get a little nervous when you like want to test things out.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, kind of like hey, what do you think?
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Do you think like if yeah dear or here, taste this?
32:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, wait, why?
32:30
SPEAKER_01: What is this?
32:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm thinking about a way that I can kill somebody.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: Can you taste the whatever in this?
32:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, what?
32:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, yes.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: Um but but uh I guess I mean one question uh I have that I know other people would would probably love to hear though is if so you the Pacific Northwest mysteries five books, uh Swing Cross Mysteries, six books plus three shorts.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: Three shorts.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: The Big Shop Mysteries book 21 is coming out February, right?
33:06
SPEAKER_01: Something like that.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, 20 early 2025.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: 20 comes out in February, then 20.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's right.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: We're only trying.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then uh the secret bookcase mysteries is this is gonna be the third book that comes out, but but four, maybe more coming.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: Um are you running out of ways to kill people?
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: No.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: No.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that was that was a little too fast.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: You were just instantly like bam, nope, nope, no problem.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: No problem.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm the most excited about um a current idea that I have that I can't share yet because it would be a big spoiler.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: But that is just completely terrifying.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited about how I offer this person.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh interesting.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: So all those books, and you you're still you've got, you've got like, do you keep these all in a notebook?
34:03
SPEAKER_01: I've never asked because I kind of want to find it.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh I just don't know what to look for.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I should have when I started, but I've never really, I haven't.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I've thought before, like, oh, did I just use that too like a few books ago?
34:16
SPEAKER_00: I I sometimes have to go back and think.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, I think after you've written a lot, and this has happened with like some of our favorite shows, like Midsummer Murders that's long running.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: You kind of get to like 800 episodes.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: You get to be a little bit more outlandish as you go too, because it's sort of like, you know, it's a little tongue-in-cheek, I would say.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Which yeah.
34:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, and if people have already suspended belief enough to think that like in a town of 20,000 people, like 30 murders have taken place in the span of 10 years, then yeah, it's probably it's probably okay to be a little outlandish.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, on that note, darlings, uh uh until next time and send me your murder methods.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: And again, uh please, uh, if you get uh enjoyment out of this uh podcast or learn anything new like how to kill somebody, um please follow us.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh like the podcast.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: And if you wouldn't mind dropping a review, that'd be great.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, especially before we get pulled off the air after all these talk, all this talk about killing people.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, of course.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: The uh required caveat uh every time.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
35:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean the thing is kill your darlings, so yeah.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: It's right there, it's right there in the right-in window.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: All right, until next time.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Until next time.