Latest / The Unconducted Curriculum / Episode 11: Guest, Eric Rath Keeping the Momentum; Motivating Students Post Region Marching Contest

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Episode 11: Guest, Eric Rath Keeping the Momentum; Motivating Students Post Region Marching Contest · The Unconducted Curriculum

• Chris McLellan: welcome to episode 11 of the Unconducted Curriculum podcast. And this week we are fortunate and blessed to have Eric Rath with us. And we're gonna be talking with Eric about how to keep our students motivated post-region contest. So as we are either getting ready for area contest or maybe we're not moving on to area, but we still want to continue to to improve past region, so Eric, welcome to the program. Eric Rath: Welcome to the program. Thanks. Chris McLellan: Well, we're excited to have you. And so just briefly give us a a a rundown about yourself just for the listeners. Eric Rath: Sure. this is my twenty-sixth year in education. my seventh year overall as the head director at Canyon High School, way up in the panhandle near Paladero Canyon, just south of Amarillo. And my thirteenth year in the cluster. So I was the junior high director before I moved up to be the head high school director. And That's been a lot of fun. I've gotten to actually go through that journey with my own kids and continuing that journey. So it's been a fun family environment for us. I started out as wanting to be the world's greatest percussion specialist and chasing drum Chris McLellan: Ha ha ha. Eric Rath: lines around and teaching all of the, you know, all the exciting hybrid rudiments and then just kind of found that I was getting more interested in junior high band and and becoming head director and getting my chops on the podium. And so here we are. And it's a great day when I get to teach full band. And it's a great day when I get to go take the battery and go warm them up. So yeah. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. and that's sounds a lot like my journey. Yeah, it was me. Yeah. I mean, tina: That's you. Like you, yeah. Eric Rath: Yeah. Right. Chris McLellan: and I'm a little bit older than you. And when I came out of college, there wasn't really a lot of percussion specialists around, And Eric Rath: Right. Chris McLellan: I was I was told throughout college, you know, you're gonna have to be a band director. You're not just gonna be able to be a percussionist. And that was really true. But then kind of once I got into it, really enjoyed that side of things, know. Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: When I was at Glenrose there for 12 years, six years as the junior high director, but I was also the percussion person, for the district. and then even when I took over when George retired and took over the high school program the last those six years as the head director, I was still the percussion guy, And so, Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: did all of that and and loved doing that and still love doing that. Both of my sons went through all that. in the Alito Band program. And so, that's that's still in our in our genes, so to speak. But yeah, so I kind of get that that whole experience that you're talking about, and and Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: being being in your position now. Awesome. Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: So we're gonna kind of talk about, just a little bit about the marching band season. You know, we've all come through summer band, come through September. It's been miserably hot this year. I know a lot of programs feel like they're behind where they wanna be just because of the heat and the precautions and the things that we've had to deal with. but what makes October different, than September and August? when you reach this point in the season, what changes, if anything, about the way you approach your students and your rehearsals? Eric Rath: Well, we always talk about August being about the excitement of the new year and everything is new and we have all these great plans and we're gonna get to see all the students come in and how things are gonna go and we start learning drill and we're taking those new baby freshmen and getting them initiated into what we do. And then we always talk about October kind of as self-motivating. There's a show almost every Saturday or some really exciting district rivalry or some important football game coming up. And so what we often have to do is navigate September a little bit that it can feel like some of the newness of August has fallen off. where we've started school, so we not only have to think about the clarinet, but we have to think about algebra. And some things like that kind of make September Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Eric Rath: more trench warfare in that way. But when it comes Chris McLellan: Yeah. Eric Rath: to October, it's really exciting because students then get to see that all of the material and all of the hard work that they have been working on is starting to pay off. And we're actually on our fall break right now and it's important in our the culture of our band program that with Friday off and Monday off, we don't do anything on Saturday. We let the kids just go be kids. We if they want to go travel, they can. We preach a lot of rest with them. and that's Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: one of the things that's really nice about where that falls in October. I know a lot of groups are out yesterday. But it gives us the opportunity to come back and hit it really hard this week, meaning that our students should not only feel motivated for what's ahead of them with region and area and state, but also feel that they have had a chance to rest and and mentally reset and then come in and hit Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: it really hard. Chris McLellan: Right. Yeah. I I I think that's super important. and you talk about September, and Tina and I did a whole episode on September, you know, and tina: Yes, we did. Chris McLellan: you're right. The newness that that is gone from August and school has started, and we're kind of getting into kind of the weekly schedule of, the same old, same old, and it's just work, work, work, work, work and school and grades Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: and all the things. And, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: yes, October should be. almost self-motivating in a way because you've made it through what I call the most difficult time of marching season, which is September to me. Eric Rath: Right. Yeah. tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: and you're getting to go to contests and you're getting to see, how your work is paying off and and some of the rewards that you might be able to earn from that. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: but also just the the satisfaction of being able to perform a show, and not just doing the work for it, but you've got the whole show hopefully. in the works here and and moving on into some, meaningful competitions and things like that. tina: you're right, they have all that satisfaction and they're going to contest, but they start to lose steam. you start to see it, they they're like you're saying, the fatigue gets in, the repetition of the rehearsal of some of them may say, Well, I already know this, and just being tired and some of them are unmotivated or they're overwhelmed with ac academics and things. So, how do you recognize the difference between students who are simply tired and students who are actually losing motivation on what they're doing? Eric Rath: Yeah, I think the tired thing is something that we address with this fall break. And I know that that may be different from a lot of other schedules. It's something that we absolutely capitalize on, but we talk a lot, and a lot of band programs do, tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: about not allowing there to just be average excuses and what's going on. And sometimes students will tell us that they're tired and we talk through that with them. Are you going to bed on time? I and I had a student tina: Right. Eric Rath: about a week and a half ago, he said, I'm just exhausted. And they're like, okay, are you going to bed on time? Well, no, not really. Okay. Are you drinking enough water? tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: No, and I'm starting to slip into dad mode a little bit with that. But Chris McLellan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. tina: Yes. Eric Rath: we we do really try to address that corporately, hey, this is a physical activity. You're getting PE credit for this. You need to be able to be well rested as you come in. But one of the tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: things that we started talking about early, early in the year is that motivation is elusive and motivation sounds like, you know, like an old Disney movie where some sort of like magical thing happens. We talk a lot about how motivation is great, but you can't sit around and wait for it. You have to take first steps tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: and you have to get out there and say, Okay, I'm doing this thing because it's the right thing to do, that volition concept of, okay, whether I feel like it or not. I know that putting my phone on the charger and going to bed is the right thing. There's a band tina: Right. Eric Rath: application to that as well. So when we get Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: tired students, we try to be really conscious of the their physical needs and talk through them a little bit more just as human beings. But when it comes to motivation, Often what I see is that students who start to lose motivation are older students because now they're starting to reach mastery in the show. And it's kind of tina: Mm. Eric Rath: simple. And where's the challenge and where's the new? So we shift Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. Eric Rath: and we talk about, hey, if you're waiting around for motivation, you haven't been paying attention through this whole marching Chris McLellan: Ha ha ha. Eric Rath: band experience. But also, what do you want your legacy to to be when you leave our program, when you graduate. And and hopefully tina: Yes, exactly. Yes. Your yep. Eric Rath: that regenerates a little bit of that. Okay, I have to do this. I mean, I might feel unmotivated, but I need to be engaged and fully bought in because there are other students who are counting on me. Yeah. tina: Right. And the tradition of what, they're a part of. It really can give Eric Rath: Yeah. tina: them pride in that for to remind them that, they're a huge part of that tradition since most of them since ninth grade. And that yes, this is your fourth year. And also motivating them to help other students more, and even before rehearsal starts that really does, I think, help the seniors realize I am a big important part and I can do other things besides just my part. Eric Rath: Right. we had a we had a rehearsal last week where we lost our juniors because they're going to go take the PSAT. Some of the freshmen and sophomores also opted in on that. And so I started looking at, okay, we're going to be missing a pretty big segment of the band, but we're going to have about 40 minutes left in rehearsal. What can we do? And so I pulled in our our squad leaders, our leadership team, and then I pulled in and our I pulled in our seniors and I said, Hey, here's what we're going to do. You've got a little group of people that are in your influence. And I'm going to give Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: you about five spots in the show. I'm going to turn on a global metronome. And I want you to go down the line and I want you to hear every kid, but I want you to play that segment for them first. And then I want you to hear them. And I'm looking at a student and I'll, I don't know if my students will ever find this or not. So I'll protect his name for anonymity's sake. tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: But I'm looking at a student who's been he's a late bloomer as a as a senior. And he's not a leader and that's there's nothing wrong with that at all. But I said, Hey, you know, listen, you're gonna have to pitch in in this way. And he just said, Okay, Mr. Rath, that's what you need. And one of the staff members told me later that they saw some of the very best teaching from him because he was not letting these freshmen and sophomores get away with not playing their absolute best. And he was correcting fingerings on the instrument, really talking about style. And they were blown away by what he Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: was able to do. And I think, man, that is a really cool legacy that this kid, he'll never have his name on a plaque in our band hall. But for him, there's some legacy component that's happening right there. And if you're not, I mean, I get goosebumps thinking about what that kid was accomplishing. And there's some motivation there to just leave it tina: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: better than you found it. tina: Yeah. And you gave him a purpose, know. Eric Rath: Yes. tina: He wasn't feeling purposeful and that gave him a purpose and also made even if made think about, I can teach. Maybe I'm you Eric Rath: Yeah. tina: know, I could be a really good teacher. Yeah. Eric Rath: Right. Chris McLellan: Yeah, we used to have, I used to pull the seniors and we would have, those conversations long before I would even maybe start to notice, that they're getting a little bit complacent with the show because they, they're mastering it. They're doing all the things. And we would just have those conversations about you've mastered it, but now you've got to help everybody else master it, and you may not have the the title of a leader. But you are a leader and you've got to step up and show them what the journey is, what it looks like, and all those types of things. And so I think that's that's a great thing. I mean, we have to recognize that and we have to make sure that our older students, yes, and and maybe those of who who have done it before, and have been to the area finals, the state contest and all that stuff, and they've been there and they've done that. And sometimes they start to become a little bit complacent because they think, well, we'll just do it again. It's okay. We're we're we'll get it. We'll be there. You know, Eric Rath: yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: you and you don't really, it's it's just that whole thing with, what but why are we doing this? And I always did this thing where we're not going to talk about state. State's a bad word. We're just not gonna, it's not gonna be in our vocabulary because every year it's a different band, period, And so just because last year's band did it or the one two years ago did it, doesn't mean that we're gonna make it. We have to w do the work. And so it was, you know, do the daily, take care of the daily goal. That's what it was, And so we did a Eric Rath: And so we Chris McLellan: lot of talking about the why. It wasn't, you know, yes, we talked about what we were working towards. We talked about why being our very best matters, but more importantly, why does the work matter? know, why what are we Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: learning from this? Are we just doing this to, try to win a trophy or, whatever it is? And so we had to get them to understand the why behind everything. and that was important to me to help create ownership in the program and then their performance, and connecting today's rehearsal to the ultimate goals. so really understanding that if we take care of everything we're supposed to take care of today and we do that again tomorrow and the next day, all those other things are gonna take care of themselves. You know, we're not Eric Rath: All those other things are in the scriptures. Right. Chris McLellan: gonna have to we're not gonna have to worry about that. And and yes, we secretly, had the goals of we want to make state, we wanna make state finals, we wanna do these things, but it wasn't something that we discussed as a group. wasn't just something that we discussed with our leadership team. It was just that one day at a time, take care of our goals, take care of our goals, you know. So how do you remind your students what they're working towards without constantly saying we have to get ready for area or state? Eric Rath: Well, you have to balance. I I thought what you said was beautiful about, it's it's important to have goals, but you can dwell too much on goals that you you will get completely bitten in the butt if you put all of your eggs in the goal basket because you'll fall short in some way. So I I I feel like a very similar take on things as far as how we approach that with our students. We will just very occasionally talk about. what some of our goals are for this season. But we really focus in on what are we trying to accomplish this week when we really talk about Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: that with the leadership team. So we have a leadership team meeting on Monday mornings early. And it it can be a little bit of everything from how did you feel about the procedure at the game to were there any questions about, you know, this, this thing happened. We need to talk about it. But there will just be times where we just tell the leadership team, This week, from Monday to Friday, this is what we're trying to accomplish. So they have a little Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: bit of vision throughout what that's going to look like. And it tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: helps them to be more intuitive about how they can lead through that. We will also, I know this is not a leadership podcast, but I feel like it does touch on the fact that we open about half of our meetings up to anybody in the band who wants to attend, who's maybe aspiring to be on leadership. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: So there are times when those students will even get to sit in and we just tell them, hey, you're auditing, you know, there's this is. We do care what you think, but this is not the forum for it today. This is not an open forum. And so there are times that in those open meetings, the some of the rank and file students who have leadership aspirations will also know more clearly what that looks like for the week. And we'll talk about it with our leaders. And this is what this is what Monday is going to look like and Tuesday. But also usually in a Monday rehearsal, Monday night rehearsal that we do, we'll talk about, hey, this is what we're trying to get for the week. This is what we want to Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: perform as our dress rehearsal on Friday night at halftime. And this is what we're hoping to do for Saturday. And so they get an idea that we're not just going into rehearsal blind. Of course, they see us post-the lesson plans, but they need to know there is a very clear, thought out mid-range goal that we're all working Chris McLellan: Right. Eric Rath: on, not just the daily tina: Mm, yeah. Eric Rath: and not just the season, like the big season goals. Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we, you know, that was the same for us with our leadership team. We did discuss that. We had our leadership meeting was five o'clock on Mondays before our six o'clock, rehearsal on Monday nights. And of course it was this is the goals for tonight, but also this is where we need to be by the end of the week. This tina: Right. Chris McLellan: this is what we would like to perform Friday night. This is what we like to be able to perform at the contest Saturday, whatever it was. and then within within that though, it was, but in order to do that, we have to do this tonight, we have to do this tomorrow, we have to stay on track with these things. And I think for us that worked really well. with the staff knowing what the goals were, the the leadership knowing. And I would discuss it with the band too at the beginning of the week. Like this is, this is these are our goals, but then we just get a bit more involved with it, with the leadership team. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: and we gave we did seven and a half hours of rehearsal every week. And then my leadership kids had a 30 minute block of sectional time. And that sectional Eric Rath: Yeah, that's Chris McLellan: time was mainly devoted for, the the leaders to help any student that didn't have something memorized, finish having them get that passed off, helping them play something that they they were struggling with, whatever. That was their time to to do that. And so they would also understand that during their time, this is what I need to do, this is who I need to to focus on, those types of things. tina: Well and Eric, I love that you had said that you had lesson plans that you shared with the leaders, you know, and the Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: directors. I think that's really important that it it goes day by day for that week and that everybody knows and that you let the students see that too. it really makes a huge difference because that's what Brandon Fisher does at McKinney High. I mean, like we all like we all can open that up and there's different tabs at the bottom Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: for what different things are, but they all can see it. And me walking in because I'm not there. full the whole day I'm walking in and I can before I get I know exactly what the plan is and the goal for that day it really does help it helps the mindset of everyone that's involved so yeah very important yes Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Yep. Everybody's got to be on the same page. Tina and I've talked about that kind of stuff before with, just having a shared Google Doc, and with the whole staff and, tina: Yep, and that's what this is. Chris McLellan: and that type of thing, just being able to communicate and not only, for marching band, but just for the whole week through from campus to campus. You know, just tina: Concert season, yeah. Everything. Yes. Eric Rath: Yes. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: if I'm coming to your campus today and you want me to to do something for you, put it on the Google Doc and I'll look at it before I head over. tina: Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: You and vice versa. So all those kinds of things are are great. Yeah. tina: Yeah. Really help. Yeah. sometimes we get bogged down into saying and doing the same formats, have you ever explored like changing rehearsal formats or a different location or sectionals or small groups? what are some things that you do to keep the rehearsal fresh? but also keeping the continuity there. Eric Rath: Yeah, the continuity is the biggest thing. I I love that tina: Yes. Eric Rath: word. I we often talk about the consistency of each rehearsal having maybe the tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: same sections, but there's some modularity to it so tina: Right. Eric Rath: we can change things around. And one of the things we we deal with in the panhandle, I know everybody's kind of dealing with the sun and the And less a little less sunshine in the morning and having to manage that at night. But it will probably be another week and it starts to get pretty chilly in the mornings when we start rehearsal. So we have blocks of things that happen in the rehearsal that keep keep us on task for making sure we're doing specific music fundamentals and marching fundamentals, tina: Okay. Eric Rath: but we may have to keep it fresh in the sense that it's kind of too dark for us to be able to see kids. tina: Okay. Eric Rath: on the parking lot at seven in the morning. So there is a little bit of an element of having to work through the the logistical jigsaw pieces and and put all that together. It keeps keeps my job interesting. I kind of enjoy the tina: Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: puzzle aspect of it. But tina: It is fun. last week we had so much rain coming in last week and Eric Rath: yeah. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: it looked like it was gonna rain and downpour the whole time. We we just went, we're just gonna do this. Woodwinds you're bringing your cases out there. We're just gonna go for it. And do you know Eric Rath: Yes, yes. tina: we almost got to I wanna say 90 to 90 for five percent of the the rehearsals for those three days we still could do because it really didn't rain on us. It sprinkled a little bit here and there, but we just went for it. You know, but like you say, it's that puzzle of is it gonna rain? Is it gonna be too dark? But that does change that aspect. Eric Rath: Well and Murphy's Law tells us that if you don't have a rain plan, you're gonna get rained on. Yeah, so yeah. Heck well yeah. Yeah, you better. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. W one of the tina: I know, yep. we had all the tarps to go over all the electron we had it all ready. I mean it was set. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it worked. But yeah. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Eric Rath: Keeping the keeping the rehearsals fresh or keeping this part of the season fresh, I think we do a lot of the same things that you see on social media. We, you know, we'll have freshmen of the week, we'll have students of the week, we have a section of the week and that gets announced at the game and it goes on our socials. We'll have we tina: Yeah, yeah. Eric Rath: had a parent come in a week ago and they run a coffee shop and they brought us some gift cards. tina: nice. Eric Rath: It's really nice to, we had a clinician in who was saying, I don't that student is they're on they're on your leadership team. And I said, No, they're just a they're a senior who's just really good. And so that kid needs something and I had something to give him. But this is a cool tradition. Our and I th I I don't think it's unique to us. I think there are other groups that do this, but our band parents come in usually the Thursday before the next competition and they will add and level up whatever decorating they have done in the Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: band hall. And tina: yeah. No, that's awesome, yes. Eric Rath: Yeah. And so that may not necessarily keep the rehearsal fresh, but it keeps the ecosystem fresh. And we have hall lockers. this was just an organic thing tina: it's fun. yes. Yeah. Aw Eric Rath: that happened a few years ago. We have these hall lockers that kids use quasi-locker room-ish for all their stuff and it's not in the band hall proper. And some section leader parents a few years ago started making these little signs and it just was like, hey, go trumpets. And then it had a kid's name on it. You're doing great. Little handwritten note. And they put it up on the on the locker. And so now we're tina: Mm hmm. Yes. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: starting to see that that's spread throughout all the sections. And I'll walk in if they'll if they do that on a Thursday night. I don't know how they get into the band hall, but they do that on a Thursday night. Chris McLellan: Ha ha ha. Eric Rath: I'll walk in on Friday morning and, you know, I won't tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: even have the lights turned on and there's some like strobing LED thing coming off the wall and tina: Yes. Eric Rath: It's cool for me to get tina: yeah. Eric Rath: to see it too. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Yeah, absolutely. It's it's neat. we did the same thing. I know when when I was at Glenrose, the week of UIL, our parents would start coming in every day and tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: and leaving little, good luck notes and different things on the chairs for the students and candy and tina: Mm. Yeah. Eric Rath: It's awesome. Chris McLellan: all the different things. And then it would just kind of keep escalating to where there were signs and banners and balloons and all the things throughout the week. And so every day it was kind of a new thing. it's like, what Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: are we what what are the kids gonna see today? And it was always a surprise to me. I knew they were gonna do it, but I didn't know Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: what it was gonna be, and those types of things. And and same thing when I was at Springtown. especially going into, area and state and all that stuff. I mean, it was it was crazy all the things that they did and the banners that they bought and hung up in town and all the different things that were going on, and so just all of that helps keep the Helps the kids stay motivated. It helps things be fresh. They have something to think about. just, do what you can do, and have your boosters do those things. And several of the schools that I work with right now, and I even see on social media their booster clubs or planning this and this, or we need this, we need help with this. We you know, and it's just that type of thing. It's like just it's it's that time of the year, and those kids. need to feel special, and Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. tina: as a middle school director, I always love, because you have younger siblings in the middle school band that have older siblings, in the high school band and also that connection, we would always, I would just get a big, huge poster thing and I'd tape it together and just put good luck at UIL. And I'd let the Eric Rath: yeah. tina: kids sign it and even write a note to their sister or whatever. I just, everyone couldn't do huge because but I Eric Rath: Uh-huh. tina: every kid could sign it. And every kid could like that go clarinets or go trumpets or whatever they want it to. And then I would like to sneak into the band hall, like you're saying, and we go Eric Rath: Yeah. tina: my our directors would go sneak in and hang it up in the hallway. and then see the high school kids go see that. But anything that can make that connection is tremendous. And on also that it gets you talking to the middle school classes also about this is what you're gonna do in the future. some of you are Eric Rath: Yes. tina: gonna be there next year, some of you it's gonna be a couple years Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: and how much fun is that? That connection really helps those middle school kids, know that goal of what high school could be about. But and it also helps high school kids. They love seeing that and they're like, Miss Barr, how many clarinets do you have or how many what man, that's a wall, whatever it is. So it's great. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Well, and just using the the time of the year that it is. mean, for us, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: if it was a pink out game, I would let the band really do pink out, you know. In fact, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: we even bought, different I think pink gloves for them one year, or to to pass out to everybody and different things and let them be a part of that. and then of course, Halloween, like we did. Especially when it was a non state year, we would do a a Halloween show, just different things to kinda keep it all fresh and not just the same thing day after day after day. tina: Well, isn't area almost for everyone falling on Halloween this year? I think a Yes. Yes. It's it's Halloween. We're like, okay, not this Chris McLellan: Well, two A four A six A is, yeah, I'm running that contest. Eric Rath: Yeah. Yeah, I'm running off of that. tina: time though, Chris. I don't think that's gonna work. Maybe Friday night. Maybe f no, Chris McLellan: No, no, but I mean even in our region, yeah. Eric Rath: Yeah. tina: I don't think Friday night would work either. Not this year. No. Chris McLellan: Our our region meeting, w when we were talking about area contest and everybody's like, Whose idea was it to have it on Halloween? I'm like, tina: On how like Eric Rath: Ha ha ha. tina: we can control the date, you know. Chris McLellan: Hey, that's what that's what we're given. I don't have any control over the date, you know. It's just gonna be there. And tina: No. Nope, it's just gonna be there. It'll be all in fun. Chris McLellan: and I've already told the the stadium folks, at the our our our at our site, it's like, all right, instead of while we're waiting for, finals to be announced, instead of playing the YMCA and all that stuff, we're gonna play Monster Mash and you know what we're gonna tina: Yay, that's a great idea. Eric Rath: cool. tina: I love that. Yeah. Yay. Chris McLellan: You know, we're gonna do something to have fun with it, and I'm trying to figure out if I can do something. Well, I yeah, I've got a playlist already, but I'm tina: Get a playlist going. Get a playlist going. Eric Rath: What? Chris McLellan: trying to figure out something too if there can be some just pots of gold around the stadium for kids, just little candy things that they could find or something. I don't know, just to I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I don't Eric Rath: That's cool. Chris McLellan: want it to be distracting, but tina: That's fun though. Yeah. Chris McLellan: but yeah, I've been thinking about it. It's like, yeah. I know it's Halloween. tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: okay, so getting into the next thing, which is using competition as motivation without making competition the only motivation, tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: you know, and so kind of the balance between external motivation, which would be ratings, scores, advancing placement, just competition in itself, and the internal motivation stuff, which is pride, improvement, ownership. team, personal excellence, accomplishment. and that's something that we have to balance because I've been in around folks that are, it's it's all about the contest, it's all about the ratings. And nine times out of 10, that falls short, because it's Eric Rath: Right. Chris McLellan: only, it's only external motivation, and so Eric, how do you use competition to motivate students without without allowing the score to be the only thing that they care about? Eric Rath: Well, that's such an important thing to talk about. One of the things I say that we do is we can't we were talking about goal setting earlier and how like as you said, you'll fall short often because you don't really have control over where a judge ranks you. So we Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: talk about that with the students, like, okay, man, we we would love to win this accolade or whatever. And but we'll just be we'll be really blunt with the students, like, can you choose that? And they'll say no. And I say, well, what what can you choose? What you what can you control? And they'll talk about, you know, we can we can control how hard we work during rehearsals. And so we'll say, okay, then that's that's one of those things that like you have to be in competition with who you were yesterday. And we have to be better than the band was last week. And my son Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Right. Eric Rath: Is a freshman in college this year, but he was a drum major for a couple of years. And he asked me point blank one time, he goes, You never talk to us about goals. are you not competitive? And I said, I assure you, I am the most competitive person. But it doesn't, it doesn't do us any good. And he goes, Well, tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: what were your goals for the year? And I said, Do you want me to be honest? And he goes, Yeah. And I said, To win the four A state marching contest. And he goes, Really? Well, spoilers, tina: Mm. Eric Rath: we didn't win the four A state marching contest. tina: Well. Eric Rath: And he said, Well, why didn't you say anything about it? And I said, Because at what point do I say, here's this thing that is really hard to actually numerically Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: and quantifiably achieve? And instead, it becomes a thing that consumes us in an unhealthy way when what we need to do is say, tina: Mm. Yeah. Eric Rath: we're going to take control over what we can control, and we're going to make this rehearsal one percent better. And we're going to be better than tina: Mm-hmm. Right. Eric Rath: we were at last week's competition. So, you know, that's that's important, tina: Yes. Eric Rath: but Students have to take these things into life, which is all the more reason to not be hung up on the competitive aspect of things as a teacher because these are children. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: Some of them at 14 are much more close to their childhood than those who are about to graduate. And it I take, and I know you guys do too, I take the aspect of preparing them for adulthood really seriously. So what could what can they learn Chris McLellan: Yes, yeah. tina: Right. Eric Rath: in our band program about competition, but also the things that they bring to the table with that, that they're going to go into their life? Because whether they think about it or not, job interviews, scholarships, getting into a program, if they're going into the military, maybe the particular conversation. Concentration, it's all competition. And at some point, somebody else is going to check a box or not check a box. They need to feel great about what they did to influence somebody else's opinion, or in our case, the numbers they write down on the area sheet or state sheet or whatever we're talking about. Yeah. tina: Right. No. Right. Whatever it Chris McLellan: Exactly. tina: is, yeah. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Well, and and that that's the thing, and and I always wherever I go in clinica band, at some point during the night, it may be at the beginning, it may be the end, it just depends on how things are going. But I'll always sit the band down and say, What are your goals? What were your goals for this year? What are your goals for this week? What do you want to do this weekend? You know? and you'll get different answers. 'Cause some kids, it's almost like they they know that I'm I'm wanting how I'm wanting them to answer the question, and they'll say to be better than we were yesterday. and then there's some kids that'll say, Well, we want to make state, And it's like, Okay, but how did you approach today's rehearsal? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Eric Rath: Yeah, sorry. It's just it's it's right there. It I feel like there's tina: Yes. Eric Rath: a copy of this always within reach. But like Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: you're saying, to be better than yesterday, to be one percent better, and that's the only thing that you can control. Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. tina: Right. Yes. Chris McLellan: One percent better. That's all you can control. Because I'll have bands go, well, but why should we work that hard? We can't beat so-and-so. tina: That's yeah. That's Chris McLellan: Why why why? tina: not the main goal. Have you gotten like you're saying, was this week's performance for you personally better than last Chris McLellan: Right. tina: week's? What did you improve on this week? You know, Eric Rath: Yep. Yeah. tina: it's that. It's about self improvement as a team. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Well, it it and it is. And then you also but that per that particular question rubs me the wrong way because tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: when I got to Springtown, I heard this from our kids a lot. And it was, we're from Springtown. Nobody expects very much from us. And I was just being like, What? What? Eric Rath: yeah. Chris McLellan: I don't understand that mentality, and we had to change that culture. We had to change that tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: mentality to where, and it and it became that, one day at a time, one percent better each day, whatever. However, you want to phrase that, and they totally flip the script on that. You know, it took four years, five years to get it to that point, but they flipped the script on that, And so when I visit other programs that are kind of have that same mentality, well, our bands never really achieve that much. Nobody really expects that much from us. And I have to ask them, but what are you doing to change that narrative? Because it's not gonna happen overnight. you're not gonna tina: No. Chris McLellan: go and beat so and so this weekend if you're not even close to that level at this point. But over time you can if you tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: choose to to think about how you can how you can do that. And it's all about that one one day at a time, one percent better, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, and and to me that's the most important thing. It has to be an internal thing, it has to be. an understanding of we're getting better. And I and that's why when I even want to talk with my student teachers, because this is what I did with my students. Here's today's goal. And then at the end of the rehearsal, did we meet today's goal? Yes or no? and I would have them answer. And if the answer was no, then I would ask them why? Why didn't we meet Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: today's goal? and I'd make them tell me, okay, is that going to be the case tomorrow? No, sir. Okay, let's fix it. Because every day that we don't meet our goal, we're getting a step behind. know, and so go ahead. tina: Well in in marching band, you're saying, it's I think it's very beneficial at the end of the rehearsal is to take that time to huddle up. Literally huddle Eric Rath: Yeah. tina: everybody up and ask Chris McLellan: yeah. tina: those questions like you're saying. Eric, do you do anything like that like at the end of your rehearsals? Eric Rath: We we just do a lot of announcements at the end of rehearsal, tina: Okay. Eric Rath: a lot of reminders. And it can tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: be a good time to refocus what's gonna happen for the rest of the week. But I think tina: Right. Eric Rath: there's a lot of I think there's a lot of good possibility there to say, okay, did we get everything in the lesson plan done? What were our tina: Yes. Eric Rath: goals for today? And we've will frame things a little bit more in the context of what is happening within the rehearsal. Or when Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: we have a Friday afternoon team meeting, those are often times that lend tina: Hm, yeah. Eric Rath: themselves more naturally to that. But no, our tina: Right. Eric Rath: our ends of our rehearsals, usually I'm watching the clo the clock pretty closely because I'm trying to get the last thirty seconds out of rehearsal. Exactly. Yeah. Yep. tina: Yeah, that's true too, 'cause you're doing a run through or whatever. Yeah. No, it's true. But it does Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. tina: help if you can huddle up and ask the the questions that we're asking. And then not maybe every day, but it does just cause they have that ownership of it. It's like, yeah, I did work that hard or I did accomplish this or whatever. But yeah, those are great points. Chris McLellan: Yeah, because our morning rehearsals, they were an hour long. And that's just not a lot of time to be able to spend a lot of time huddling up and talking about things. Because then tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: we had band classes and we would talk about things during band class, But on our Monday night rehearsals at the end of rehearsal, everybody came up to the drum major podium. You know, we we all stood around and we kind of we asked that because that's Monday. are we off to the start that we need to be on? And I wanted to make sure whether we were directing ourselves in the right direction on Monday, know. So if tina: Right. Chris McLellan: we had if we didn't have the most productive Monday night rehearsal, then they needed to know that. And they they did know it, but we needed to verbalize it to each other, you know, so that we could tina: Right. But that also gives the students the buy-in, then the leaders they're bought in and they're much a part of it. And so then Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: they, tell everybody else all of that. And so it just spreads that the buy-in of of doing what the goals are, which is a really good mind frame of having, instead of the goal being we're gonna make steak or we're gonna whatever, it's that it's that this is today and this is this week. So that really works well. So let's talk about the power of a video, recording rehearsals or watching performances, student self-evaluation, having students identify problems and all that. So, what's wrong, what section needs the most help, kind of how much ownership to you give the students to to identify their own problems? Eric Rath: But well, to to take the last question first, we let the leadership team have a little bit more buy-in and ownership tina: Okay. Eric Rath: than the than the rank and file students in the band program. But of course that comes with the training and the vetting process that they have gotten to be a part of that group. And so it's a little bit more trust with that tina: Mm. Eric Rath: particular group. When it goes to video judges' tapes, this is just something I feel like has evolved over the years from me releasing. every piece of media that we could possibly, here's all of the judges tapes to I'm only gonna release a couple of judges tapes. So we had a Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: contest a week ago. tina: I get it. Eric Rath: And the idea I think is not so much that we don't have students whose desire, they have a desire to listen to all those things, but band is not the only thing they do all day. And it really is the only thing I do all day. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Right. Yeah. tina: Right. That's something we do have to kinda take a step back from. You know, it's like I have to go, Yeah, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: they're yeah, they have a life. This is our life and our family. Eric Rath: I I told the kids we between the prelims and finals, one of the tapes was really good. And I said, I just want you to listen to this. And this is, you know, this is something that you need to concentrate and be engaged in. And then the fall like the next rehearsal a couple of days later, it was like, I want you to listen to the same judge and I want you to listen to their finals tape. And then I made both of those available in Google Drive for the students to Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: to listen to. We always push out what the the latest performance recording is. But if we ever take rehearsal time to do it, I make a point of saying, I think there are a lot of times that you get placed behind a screen and it's for recreational purposes. And that's not what this is. I want you to enjoy the performance. I want you to watch it maybe when you have a chance to just watch it on your phone or pull it up and and Airdrop it to the TV at your house. But if we ever watch it together, it is because you need to see this through the lens of a judge and through an educator. And you need to see it like you may, as a freshman, not fully understand the significance of what needs to be done and these parts of the shows, but our seniors will look at it and say, yeah, I see and hear this section. And that's why I'm seeing it come up in the lesson plan a lot. I mean referenced earlier that we have a team meeting. often on Friday afternoons before we go to the game and our boosters Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: will feed us and then we'll hop on buses. So we have this time that we don't really use for rehearsal, but it's good to go over game procedures. And one of the things we'll do is we'll pull the screen down in the auditorium and we'll show them either the most recent performance, that morning's run through. Or will somebody will take their iPhone, stand on the sideline, and only take video of the lower half of the students if there's a specific marching technique, leg shape, body, you know, responsibility Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Eric Rath: and just say, you know, here's look like look at this person go by. Don't we all wish we could look like that person? And and they Chris McLellan: Right. Right. Eric Rath: don't they don't even know who it is. They just know that they see five kids, one of them looks amazing and four of them needs to get assimilated to that look. Chris McLellan: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and Eric Rath: So that's how we use video, but I also try to be really conscious of not overwhelming them with the amount of media that we send out. Because also I I will get really frustrated if I get the sense that nobody's watching it. So tina: True. Eric Rath: if I can cherry pick, I feel like we might actually get more participation in that. tina: Yeah, that's a good point. Chris McLellan: Yeah, even though it was only five, six years ago now that six seasons ago was my last marching band season as a as a full time director, but the technology is so much different now than it was even six years ago. Cause at that point, we really didn't push out videos to everybody. It wasn't easy to do like it is now. And Eric Rath: Yeah. Right. tina: Yeah, it's so easy. Chris McLellan: so we would watch, usually in band class, not during marching band rehearsal. tina: Right. Chris McLellan: On the Monday following a contest, we would watch the video, and I would point out things and make them look at different things, make them listen to different things. We would listen to one or two judges' tapes, just like you said, because you they they can't listen to all of them. And and sometimes they're just saying totally different things. And so I would have to kind of go through and and go, this is what we really want the kids to hear. But then as far as video, and I do this now, even on in in a clinic, I'll just whip out my phone. And if there's a section of kids that don't look the same, I'll video it and then I'll pull them over and it's like, look at this, what do you see? And make them tell me what they see. tina: Mm. Yes. Chris McLellan: and I started doing that with one group I work with, and they're like, Man, we feel stupid. We never do that. Why don't we do that? And I'm like, Yeah, like all the time. tina: Yes. Used to do that in summer band on posture and things. Yeah. It is really good. Eric Rath: that's good. tina: And you just delete it, you know, you just show it to and delete it. Yeah. Chris McLellan: You know, because sometimes you just delete it after I show it to the kid, but because the kid does not always understand what you're saying tina: No. Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: or what they actually look like, you know. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: And even when you're looking at the full band from a press box view, they can't see the details of maybe their leg shape or their toes aren't up or whatever, And so I I like to show them that. And it's very effective. And and a lot of times I'll even have kids that just, they'll look at it and they'll go, And then the next rep they look a whole lot different, And so, it's it's really more they sometimes they know what to do, they're just not doing it because they're haven't been addressed individually to do it. And sometimes tina: Right. Chris McLellan: we're afraid to say things to individuals, It's like we'll say it to the whole band, but we really only want to talk get it through to four or five kids. Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: And we need to be able to do that, you know. We need to be able to talk to those four or five kids. So yeah. So that's that's cool. Awesome. okay, so maintaining high standards. All right. We've kind of talked about this a little bit, but ever everybody's tired, everybody's getting getting worn out, you know, that type of thing. And and I love that you guys had the fall break and that you you are letting the kids have that break. I mean, that is tina: That is awesome. That is really good. Chris McLellan: that is very good. I mean, my my son's They always had that kind of same. I think it was more like a Thursday, Friday, Monday, Tuesday. So there was a whole six days in there that Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: and I think that they still would go to a contest on that Saturday. But the rest of those those other five days, they didn't have anything. it wa it was time off. And tina: Mm. They needed it. Chris McLellan: they needed it, and it was good for them. And it was always, like the week before UIL region contest. Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Yep. Chris McLellan: So It's a good time, I think, for that to happen. And if you can, feel like you can give your kids that time, then, you please give your kids that time. But, you know, holding students accountable, like we've talked about, yes, you're tired, but are you doing this? Are you doing this? Are you drinking enough water? Are you getting enough sleep? a avoiding the temptation to lower standards because everyone Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: is tired. tina: Mm, yes. Chris McLellan: understanding when to push, understanding when to back off, the difference between high expectations and unrealistic expectations, and and I think that's something we all have to keep Eric Rath: think that's something we all have. Chris McLellan: in mind. and looking at your schedule, if you're gonna be on a a four hour road trip to a football game on Friday night and you have a five AM call for contest the next morning, it's probably not a great combination of things, Eric Rath: call for a contest the next morning. Probably not a great Chris McLellan: And so just keeping those things in mind. But for you, how do you maintain the standard without burning your students out? Eric Rath: Well, I think one of the things that works well for us is that we are not in a hurry to learn the show. And that I always kind of get to the panic part of the season because we Chris McLellan: Ha ha. Eric Rath: have yet to put the music with our closer. And I realize tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: that it is, let's see, it's October 11th. And there's just a little, there's a little palpitation right tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: there. but Chris McLellan: Ha ha Eric Rath: it's by design. And, you know, we talked about the area contest being on the 31st. Well, for a state marching contest is on November 11th. And that is one month from today. And so if Chris McLellan: Right. Yeah. tina: Yes. Eric Rath: we're not careful and we don't pace ourselves thinking about the macro aspects of the season, we will have the show on and maybe not you know, we'll always have something to work on for sure. But Chris McLellan: Yes. Eric Rath: is there a point at which we have tried to do too much up front? And then you get tina: Yes. Eric Rath: you either get complacent or you get tired of the tedium of like cleaning. I you know, I've made that mistake where you're getting close to the state marching contest and you're going, okay, well, I guess that's not gonna clean up. And I guess that's not gonna clean up, but we'll keep working on it. But let's add this horn visual. And it just seems like what's happening is the students need to have the show and know that things are not going to change and be able to really sink their teeth into it. So the way we the way we process or plan from the macro level is really important. we're we're not in a hurry to put the closer on the field. And that gives us the opportunity tina: Mm. Right. Eric Rath: to really feel like a sense of urgency to keep things moving. But we'll Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: do some things that are surprise fun things along the way that may not necessarily be directly related to standards, but keep kids motivated. So when we're in rehearsal and we're pushing high standards, they're going, Okay, well, but we got to do this cool thing, or you know, something as simple as If I know, I don't know what it is about Chick-fil-A, but if I know that we're gonna have Chick-fil-A, I I tina: Yeah, no, it is. It's a celebration. Yeah. Eric Rath: th I I I it's universally beloved by all band students on our program. tina: Yes. Eric Rath: But like if I know we're gonna have that Friday night or it's gonna be one of the meals at contest on Saturday, I'll be like, guys, you got to push really hard because of contest, because of this. And did you all know that there's gonna be Chick-fil-A and they'll get excited and it's a chance to be kind of goofy about it and then tina: Yes. Eric Rath: rein it back in and keep those high standards. I I'm letting the cat out of the bag because I think this is gonna drop before I don't again, I don't know if students are gonna hear this, but I I asked our boosters like a week ago, can you guys do a pancake breakfast for the band? And they said, What day? And so we looked at some days and of course I was like, Yeah, can you just snap your fingers and make it happen? And they're like, Can we have an extra Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: week? So sure. So this Friday, the 16th, we're shutting rehearsal down. It's gonna be a surprise. We're gonna get that we're gonna get that final run through in early. And then I'm gonna pull them in and I'm gonna say, you know what? You know what sounds good? Pancakes. We should Chris McLellan: Pancakes. Yeah. Eric Rath: go eat pancakes. And it's just those things that I think are so tangible, they're easy to overlook. But when they come back and they're fed and they're happy and you they see them telling the band parents, thank you for doing that. Thanks for taking off a little bit of work. Then when we're like on them about stuff. That there is a trade-off, that it's not we're not on them again, keeping the healthy com competition component in mind that these are kids that need to be able to go do social things with each other and be able Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Eric Rath: to enjoy just being in band. And some of that revolves around probably lots of Halloween candy on the day of area and letting our our leadership tina: god, yes. Eric Rath: team when we have our leadership team meeting on Tuesday, I'm just gonna ask them point blank, what could we do that would be fun for Halloween? Because honestly, I don't have any ideas. And if they come up with the idea and they come up with something really cool, not only is Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: it gonna be something they know will be a big hit, but also they're gonna be really personally invested. Now I know that's not a standards component, but when there is the ability Chris McLellan: No, but Eric Rath: to blow off steam and alternate that with, okay, we got to hit it really hard. I feel like there is a way to keep it rejuvenated throughout the season. Chris McLellan: Well, there is. And the kids also understand that you care about them wholly. It's not just you care about them when they're on the field or you care about them when they're in their chairs in the band hall, but you just care about them and you want them to understand that, we're gonna we're gonna take care of you, we're going to support you, we care about you, we want you to enjoy this. But they'll they'll be able to go, okay, yeah. But they're they're pushing us right now, but They care about us. We know they care about us. You know, tina: Well in Chris McLellan: I don't want to call it a trade off because it's not a trade-off. It's just the holistic approach. it's like everything has to work together and you can't just always, always, always be pushing, pushing, pushing and never really rewarding the kids for their hard work, know. tina: We you gave me an idea of we always have the snow cone truck come like Eric Rath: cool. tina: summer dan on certain days after rehearsal or whatever. Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. tina: I'm like, why can't we do this? Why couldn't we do this Thursday after rehearsal? Just bring it back. That would be great. I mean, 'cause it's like your pancake thing, but we're just gonna have snow cone and you know, they won our business and I think they would the kids would love it. You know? So yeah, I like that. Eric Rath: Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Yeah, I mean, yeah. tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: Absolutely. Absolutely. tina: so we get to where the students are like, we're good enough right now, or we've got this. and so it's like, but the staff sees more potential, or like you're saying, you're gonna add more things in there and the kids might not know that yet, but like how to challenge complacency, how do we show students evidence of what still needs to have work, or raising the standard, or helping students understand that clean isn't the same as finished. so Eric, how do you convince students that good enough today doesn't mean they're finished improving? Eric Rath: Something I heard when I did one year drum course, something I heard that one year was that the staff was trying to kind of answer that question for us late in the stretch. And one thing that they said that I now say to our students is, you know, we're gonna get on a bus and we're gonna go to finals, DCI finals. But y'all know that if we had you all on the bus the next day and we had already gotten the ratings and the final placements, that we could be driving away from that contest. pull up at a football stadium and we would still have a list of things that have to be done. And that was really powerful to me. And it just shows that, tina: Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Eric Rath: these these marching band shows are never finished. They're almost abandoned more than anything else. We get that complacency tina: Yeah. Yes. Eric Rath: component in there with students. And I'll remind them that this is unique to us in Canyon. a lot of the competition that we see head to head at state, we don't really see it until we go, two state because of our geographic area. There are many fine bands in our area and many fine four A bands, but we don't necessarily see them on a Friday night when we might compete Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: against them and not really see them at a contest. So there is an element of saying you can't come get complacent. We just finished four straight years of being in the state finals at 4A, and I have no concept in my mind That a fifth is going to be an automatic thing. And I think it's really important that the messaging from me to the students is that the moment we let up is the moment that there will not be a fifth or or whatever. And I know that's dangerous ground to stand on because of the, you know, the knock on wood element of things, but also tina: Mm-hmm. Yes. Eric Rath: just the, you know, you can't always control what somebody's gonna put on the on the page. And so what can you control? Chris McLellan: Well yeah, and now it's like for in my mind I'm like, don't be the Dallas Cowboys and take an O and four team tina: my god. Chris McLellan: for granted. You know, it's Eric Rath: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Chris McLellan: like we can't we can't think that, we're we're okay. and I haven't taught in the era where we could advance the state every year. and when I was a young director before I was fortunate enough to have bands that could go to that level. I wanted to be every year because I wanted to have more opportunities to to get to that level. And then after you've done it, six years in a row, it's or six, biennials or whatever you want to call it in a row, you're you're grateful for that off year. But in Eric Rath: Sure. Chris McLellan: that off year, it could be a letdown we well we don't have area to go to this year we don't have state to go to this year and so it's like especially with the upperclassmen and especially maybe the seniors who this is their last year last year they went to state but they can't do that this year and so then you have to fight that kind of complacency and that that letdown you know but it it's kind of my my thing was if we let down this year, it's going to be harder to get back to that next year. And on those off years, we always did a harder show than we were going to do on the state years, to push ourselves and to get better. tina: Hm. Right. Chris McLellan: we're we're going to do the, we're going to do something a little more challenging so that we can do a little bit more the next year and that growth, that growth trajectory. and so that was kind of how we approach that. And I've heard lots of people talk about that, in in when that was the thing was the every other year format. But yeah, just kind of keeping that you're never good enough. We were talking with Dex Moore from Alito a few weeks back on just some marching band stuff, you know, and he he brought up that point, too, that if we're we're going to state contest and we just want to keep going, getting better and better and better and not have that fall off. Eric Rath: Yes. And and for us to be able to say when we walk on that Chris McLellan: You know, and and for us to be able to say when we walk off that field for the last time, wherever that is and whatever it is, did we do everything we could to be the best we can be? You know, and that was Eric Rath: Yeah. That that was a that was a great episode. And I've I found myself quoting at least one thing from that episode where he's talking about, you know, when step onto the field in in area finals or at the Alamo Dome, are you gonna wish that you had given a little bit more in that rehearsal? And so even Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: since hearing that, which is such great advice, there have been a couple of times I've just stopped and been like, Hey, y'all, Fourier State marching contest is on November eleventh. What do you want today's rehearsal to look like when you're standing there? Hopefully standing there. And can we Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Right. tina: Right. Eric Rath: maybe get some re-engagement and reset this a little bit and get better buy-in from you guys? And it has been revolutionary to have a very clear sound by way to frame that for Chris McLellan: Yeah. Eric Rath: the students. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Cause that was our thing too, was you look back when you get to state or you get to the wherever it is, and and I always told the kids, for me, I want to look back and say, I did everything I could Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: to be as successful of an organization as we can be. from a performance standpoint, from a culture standpoint, from every, standpoint that we measure, I want us to be the best we can be. And if I can look back on on the end of that that time and say, yes, I feel like I did everything I could, then I don't care about the number. I don't care where we end up. I'm gonna be super happy with everything that we've done. You have to feel the same way. You have to look at it the same way. if you don't want to stand there and go, well, if I hadn't skipped three rehearsals, Would that have made a difference? And so, yeah, handling that, that, you know, we're good enough, or, did we do enough? That kind of thing. I mean, it's a challenge that we all have to deal with. And to me, if you're somebody who's aspiring to go to the next level, you're working towards, that next level, whatever that may be for you, then that's good advice is to, Did you do everything each day? Can you look back and be proud of what you've done this whole season? Because it's not gonna turn around in one rehearsal or one week or whatever if you haven't taken care of business from day one. So yeah, I think that's tina: And also having the mindset with the students that, whatever was accomplished last year, can we go with another step level higher than that? because maybe some it might not be that they make it to stake, but if they made finals at area or they, or you're ranked seventh or eighth. Yes. But that you have Chris McLellan: Or some of it's just making a first division. Yeah. Yeah. tina: that goal that they know, have you like you said, have you attended every rehearsal? Have you done the best you can do during rehearsals so that goal can be reached? So I think that just goes for any step that you are in this process to get better and better and better. So it really works well. Chris McLellan: Yes. Yeah. Eric Rath: The last couple Chris McLellan: It does. Eric Rath: of years I've thought about how we build and scaffold the whole school year. And tina: yeah. Eric Rath: Maybe it's because now my two oldest kids have graduated from Canyon High. And so I have been both a dad and a band director on graduation Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: night. But there's that inevitably tina: Mm, yeah. Eric Rath: for us, and I'm sure others too, there is that inevitable walking into the band hall, propping the door open, kids are bringing equipment back from graduation, seniors, juniors, they're they're turning in horns for summer repair, all of that stuff. And I think of it as like the Jenga Tower and And graduation is the final piece. And then as I close the door at the end of graduation and I go home, I just hear the blocks topple over, Chris McLellan: Humble. Eric Rath: which is such a like, I don't know, it's such a sad thing to say. but but there's a reality that you you just start over. You gotta start all over. And I think if you embrace that. Chris McLellan: Yeah. tina: Yes, but it's true. You start over. Yeah. Brick by brick. Chris McLellan: You gotta start over. Yeah. Eric Rath: It can be a healthy way to look at the tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: season, but we'll talk about the elements of the kids. hey, you had a great year last year. Nobody cares. You haven't put those blocks in yet. Like we tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: have blocks that need to go in and you can't already say we've done all the things when you haven't put those blocks in. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. it's true. and like I said earlier, every year's a different band. and we would had some of those, tina: Yes. Chris McLellan: started doing some of those composite pictures where you would take, individual photos of all the kids tina: Yeah. Chris McLellan: and and put that up on the wall with that big composite photo. And that was a big thing when I was in high school and stuff. And you don't see too many schools do that anymore, but we started doing that for a few years. And, I I would tell the fresh, the next year's band on day one of the summer bands look at that photo up there. At some point today, I want you to go count how many people in that band are still here. And they Eric Rath: Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: would go, they would they would do it, and a kid would come up to me and it's like, there was a hundred and sixty people in that picture, and there's only eighty-five that are still here, or there's eighty-five new people, I should say, it's like, yeah. Because you bring in a class of 60 something freshmen, and then you've got move ins and whatever it is, But yeah, there's a there's a big difference in in that group. This is not the same band. And so you have to build your legacy. You can't survive on their legacy, And that was always something that I think hit home with the kids too. it's like, yeah, it's like it's a different group. So Eric Rath: Chris, one of the things we talk about, we have these staff jerseys that we wear. They have numbers on Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: them, they're soccer jerseys. And we'll talk to the freshmen about when you step out onto the field, no one knows who's a freshman and who's a senior. Chris McLellan: Right. Eric Rath: And we, our job is for a judge to look at us and go, how do they have a band of only seniors? There is no 12 on the uniform. There is no nine Chris McLellan: Right. Eric Rath: on the uniform. And so when you get to those freshmen who are looking for like, hey, I need to step up a little bit. Well, do you look like you have two digits in your Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: in your classification or do you still look like you have one? And then you can tell you can turn around and tell those seniors, tina: Mm. Eric Rath: you can't get complacent because you have to show a ninth grader what a twelfth grader is supposed to look like because in three years, they're gonna replace you. So Chris McLellan: Yeah. Eric Rath: There that element of two, I'm sorry, you're not allowed to have a complacent, we have too much work for you to have a complacent attitude today. I think there's something to Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: be said for that. And when you think about preparing kids for the future, there are times that you just have to say, okay, we're not going to be in our feels about this. We're going to acknowledge that maybe this is not what we want right now, but the world is going to pass you. Unless you can get this under control. And so tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: we need to all get this under control and keep working Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: towards our common goal. Chris McLellan: Yeah, absolutely. I I love that. I mean, that's that's a that's a good way to think about it too. Really awesome. tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: Okay, so we've talked a lot about, how we keep students motivated and all this kind of stuff. Let's talk just for a second about directors ourselves, So because we're the ones, you know, guiding the boat, steering the boat a little bit. And sometimes, you know, we feel like we're sinking too. tina: We get tired, yeah. Chris McLellan: We get tired, know, we're Eric Rath: Sure. Chris McLellan: we're running on low fuel, So how do you keep yourself and your staff energized when you're also tired and ready for the season to wind down? Eric Rath: Well, I've had the opportunity to speak and write on director burnout, specifically band director Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: burnout before. And I always say when I get a chance to speak to a group of educators that the advice I'm about to give you is advice I need to make sure I take first. And that often Chris McLellan: Right. Eric Rath: I'm the one that's getting the the materials being preached to me. And I am a congregation of one in this weird church service we're all attending. But Chris McLellan: Ha ha ha Eric Rath: you know, there's just There are some really tangible things that I think are important in terms of electronics boundaries and technology and not letting your phone be in the same room that you sleep in. So you can actually put the phone away and you can go Chris McLellan: But yeah. Eric Rath: to sleep. And I had my I had my email, my school email on my phone for like one week one time. And I said, tina: Mm. Eric Rath: never again. I need to be able to go home and not be plugged Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: into work unless I'm making a conscious effort to do that. notification from my phone is gonna wa is gonna whack me right back into to work mode. And so there tina: Yes. Eric Rath: the band the band kids need a band director who's fresh and they're reset and they're well rested, like we've preached to the kids for this fall break weekend as well. But one of the things I'm like our staff, we get along really well. We enjoy each other. sometimes the group text outside of ours is about I forgot to mention this one thing about this set that's not hitting and this weird breathing thing. But then sometimes it's a meme. And I love that Chris McLellan: Right. Eric Rath: our staff has that playful interaction with each other. When our tina: Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Eric Rath: when our kids do the team meal before we go to a football game, the staff has a separate staff table and we just yuck it up over there and we're having a really good time. And things like that keep the season interesting and fresh. We'll go out to lunch. we'll go hopefully knock on wood, have a celebratory meal after the region marching contest. That's one of our traditions. But things like, really making sure that there are clear boundaries when it comes to email and technology and being very deliberate about, okay, I am literally walking out of the band hall and closing my day on this job for the next however many hours. And when I come back tomorrow, This job will still be here. I need to go home and be a dad. I need to see how my wife is doing. I need to be able to engage in hobbies for my own desire and for my own ability to reset. And I think it's a lot of very common sense advice. But honestly, I think the thing that doesn't get said is that. If you don't actually take the advice, knowing it doesn't make a difference at all. You have to be willing Chris McLellan: No. Eric Rath: to say, okay, I have to I have been given good advice and I know what I should do. I'm gonna actually have to take these steps and do these things. Chris McLellan: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and sometimes, in my case, it was a a big slap in the face to get me to do those things. I mean, I've written about it in my book a little bit and all these kinds of things, but when I twenty twenty hit, we went home for for COVID, we didn't go back after spring break, all that kind of stuff. It wasn't until I had that extended time off where Basically, we were stuck at home that I realized, man, I don't feel good. I just don't feel good. And I needed to figure out what was going on, and come to find out after lots of doctors' visits and tests that I was in heart failure at 50 years old, you know. And it's like, what in the heck is going on? And I was the worst about taking care of everybody else except myself, When it was family time, it was family time. And my boys were younger at the time and they were doing baseball and they were doing band. And I wanted to do this with them. And I wanted to go there with them. And I want to, go do my wife stuff, make sure I was taking care of of of that relationship, And then every other minute was band director stuff, and just didn't take care of myself. And now I can look back on that and I use that as a teaching moment for a lot of folks that I'm working with. You know, it's like I see this in you too. And you need to take care of yourself, because I was lucky. You may not be that lucky, and I had to work really hard to get out of that state. And it's not something that anybody wants to go through. So I'm looking at it from a reactive standpoint and not a proactive standpoint, which I wish was the other way around. but I'm trying to use that. to help other people at this point because I I think what you said is true, and and somebody told me this after all this happened, which was you can't take care of all these other people if you if you're not here, if you didn't take care of yourself, you know. And Eric Rath: Right. tina: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris McLellan: that resonated with me, that really did. And so that's that's something that I kind of tell everybody else too, that's kind of struggling with that balance, that work life balance, so to speak. So yeah, having that having the energy is really about taking care of yourself and being able to separate from the job when you have to, when you need to. Awesome. Eric Rath: There are priorities too that I think you need to set within the job I I've always kind of thought about this, but then somebody posted about this the other day and I thought it was a perfect analogy. You know, imagine you're holding two tasks and one is like a ceramic Christmas ornament and the other one is like a racquetball. If you were standing out on the pavement and you dropped that Christmas ornament, it would shatter. And you could not get that back and it would be a problem. And you cannot have let that drop. But if you drop that racquetball, it's gonna bounce around. It might bounce right back up into your hand, or somebody might come along and say, Here, can I grab that for you? And ever since reading that, it has made me think about some emails and some tasks being like, okay, this is the one, like for instance, I got to get a form one. Into my principal and signed and Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: turned into the contest. That's a Christmas ornament that cannot get dropped on the pavement. So Chris McLellan: That right. Right. Eric Rath: there is that element too of like being very clear about Chris McLellan: Yes. Eric Rath: not allowing certain tasks to seem important or seem urgent when they really aren't. tina: Not Eric Rath: This thing can wait until tomorrow, or better yet, this thing can I I know this is gonna be the most controversial thing I say, but not every email requires a response. And some Some emails that have been given had sent to me directly that would demand a response. I have actually let myself go. Okay, no, wait a second. I addressed this in the weekly email. I'm Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: just not going to respond to this. And I had a parent send me an email the other day and said, This is my second time trying to email you about this. And I had just missed the first the first time. They were, it was like trying to tina: Right. Eric Rath: get something out of a hotel room that we were staying in. And I wrote back and I said, Well, I I Googled the address and the phone number for the hotel. Here you go. And I'm not trying to be unprofessional or blunt, but there is kind of the element of like, hey, this was just not a ball that needed to have, you know, this was not an object that could not be dealt with in that Chris McLellan: Right. Eric Rath: moment. Chris McLellan: Yeah. And I've gotten a lot better at that too. And and tina: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: as a region executive secretary, you you kind of have to do that sometimes and in my region, I set up a spreadsheet. So when I receive an entry item from you, whether it's your form one or your your script or your you know compliance form, whatever it is, I check it off. And that is visible to everybody who's entered the contest. Right. They can go on there and they can check at any time what I have received from them. But I will inevitably get emails. Did you get this? Did you get this? I will not respond to those emails. and and normally most of the time, either a few hours later or a day later, they'll go, I saw it on the spreadsheet. I forgot about that. You know, and it's like Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: it's just you're in the moment, you're tina: Right. Chris McLellan: you're doing all the things, and sometimes it's just easier to to ask than to. think about where can I find the answer to that, Or if it's a a rule, I get a lot of rule questions. You know, it's like, well, CNCR, here's the link. Eric Rath: Yep. Right. Chris McLellan: You know, because it's like part of me feels like, well, I've got to teach you how to be resourceful. it's like you can't always just ask a question because maybe it's more convenient for you at the time. But I've I've I learned that a lot. and and there's just times when you have to say and I I love that analogy of the Christmas ornament and the and the racquall. I I I haven't thought of that before, but that's tina: Do too. That's good. That is good. Chris McLellan: perfect. That is perfect. Really good. All right. So let's let's skip down because we are at that hour and fifteen minute. let's just do a few rapid fire questions for Eric and then we'll tina: I know. To final in Okay. Eric Rath: Sure. Okay. Chris McLellan: we'll we'll end this out. Okay. So Eric. Just your first thought on these questions. Best way to motivate a tired student. Eric Rath: Chick fil A. tina: Ha ha ha love that. It's true. It's true. They will. Chris McLellan: Ha ha. Best best rehearsal strategy late in the season. Eric Rath: Well, don't don't change. I this is kind of a two-parter. The first one is if you're changing your rehearsal schedule late or your your rehearsal process late in the season, you might not have had a great rehearsal process early in the season. But I had some really good advice and it was, you know, you get to a point where everything is cleaning up and cleaning up and you just have to find what are the three things I'm gonna focus on today. And let's run the show. But don't abandon the lesson plan. Don't, don't sell the horse that you rode in on. If marching fundamentals are important to you, we do marching fundamentals in the warm-up room in the Alamo Dome. It's that important. And you're getting judged tina: yeah, yes. Eric Rath: on it. You better make sure that it's part of your fundamental time. Chris McLellan: Yes. Eric Rath: So yeah, don't don't abandon, don't change things wildly. I will say one thing that we talk about internally with the staff is we s we become less. direct with like the negative feedback. And what we start to do is say, okay, we're gonna we're gonna either praise the kids or we're gonna offer reminders. And that's it. And so nothing Chris McLellan: Yeah, yeah. Eric Rath: is combative in the last week and a half, you know, last seven rehearsals, it becomes Hey, did you did you remember that you have to have a straight leg when you make that direction change? yeah, that's right. Okay, cool. And then when it's good, hey, you did a really good job on that. Instead of it being like, How many times have I told you to have that straight Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: leg, that sort of thing, or you're not taking a big enough first step on the backwards march, all that stuff. But just don't abandon the things that have gotten you successfully through the season. Chris McLellan: Great, awesome. Yeah, very good. How about the best way to regain focus? Eric Rath: Chick-fil-A? No, kidding. tina: Ha ha ha Eric Rath: you know, sometimes a water break is good. Sometimes playing a piece of Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: music over over the speaker while you're doing a water break is good. Jumping jacks are great. I've found that there's a way to this, this, I don't know. I just kind of stumbled onto this this year, but I would start to think, okay, I really need to find freshmen who are doing this really well, but I don't need Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: for the upperclassmen to feel like. they're not getting theirs as well. And so Chris McLellan: They're not doing it well. Yeah. Yeah. Eric Rath: I I've I'm gonna use two names and these are actual trombone players in our program, but there's this freshman trombone girl named Izzy and she was really starting to get To where she was demonstrating consistent mastery. And so in between reps, I said, who's doing a really good job? Isabella, you're doing a really good job. You know who you remind me of? Is you remind me of Lacey when she was starting to get as a freshman. And what was cool was connecting those things from freshman Chris McLellan: Yeah. Eric Rath: to senior, but then a freshman got to have their name announced. And then that senior got to go. Well, heck yeah, you noticed me too. And and yeah, I've been there, Izzy. I can help you with that. I think that's a cool way of doing it. This is Chris McLellan: Awesome. Eric Rath: an accident, but I'm gonna keep using it. Chris McLellan: Yep, yeah, yeah. That's that's tina: Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Chris McLellan: really good. That's really good. Is there anything Eric Rath: Yeah. Chris McLellan: you would start doing? Something that you've learned that you haven't implemented yet? Eric Rath: We made a big change in the way that we teach and implement choreography this year. And it has been really good. And I'm not I mean, I'm I'm really happy with what has happened. But now having gone through most of the season and seeing how that process has gone, I just have things I want to clean up and improve upon for next year with that and how we approach that. We're always looking I mean, tina: Hmm, that's good. Eric Rath: I don't mean to be a broken record with the atomic habits thing, but most of the time the things that we wanna adjust are small one percent changes that really compound out over time. Chris McLellan: Cool. Yeah, that's true. Last question. Anything, is there one thing every director should remember during this final week leading up to UIL? Eric Rath: well, I it's I I think it's age-old advice, but these are children who need to know that they're cared for, they're seen, and they're loved, all in an appropriate way. And even though we are going to be at our most intense, these kids are not gonna necessarily remember placements or what we said to them, but they're gonna remember how we made them feel. And because we've talked several times about preparing these students for adulthood, we want them to to turn back on their band experience and say, I'm really glad I did that. And it helped me be a better adult. And so we could get that tunnel vision. And if we're not careful, we'll forget that these are children who, you know, we are we are taken care of. And yes, band is the medium, but we are trying to help these students grow into productive citizens that they're going to be when they become adults. Chris McLellan: Well, and I will say that out of everything in my career, the one thing that I hold most dear is when I get those, I I I see a former student out in public or something happens on social media and they write me about something, or I run into them at a contest, or they just text me or or whatever, and say stuff like, I realize today or this happened today that made me realize how much band impacted my life, and there's not a better feeling in the world than than that as a as a band director, to hear a student go, and and I've had a few that, man, it's like they were challenging students. And I Eric Rath: Yes. Chris McLellan: didn't know, I didn't know if they were ever gonna, look back on band as something that taught them something. But they have, you know, and it's like, wow, Eric Rath: Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: that that makes you feel good. You know, Eric Rath: Yes. Chris McLellan: that's that's what it's all about. Okay, so final takeaways. Tina, let's let you start off with that. tina: Okay, so Eric, want to give us three things that directors can implement immediately. Eric Rath: Take take the comments that you're hearing on Saturday from judges' tapes, compile those and find the comments that are being mentioned from multiple sources, and that has to be the first thing that you start working on. That's gotta be the first tina: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: thing. tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: We we're blessed to have a big staff and have a a really bought-in and invested staff. I would say specifically for head directors, this is something we talk about a couple of times a year. And we just talked about this last week at our staff meeting. But every one of our staff members has a different idea of what the number one priority should be. And so I said, I just want to remind you that as I build out the lesson plan. I'm taking into acco into account what I'm seeing, what judges are saying, and what you guys are are saying. And I said, take out your phone and I want you to if if for whatever reason somebody handed you my keys tomorrow and you said, Okay, I have to develop the lesson plan and I gotta start, what are the first two things that you would fix? And they all stood there and they texted me separately and I went through and I said, You know, there's very little overlap in these things. We're all kind of hitting on different things. And I said, that's great, because it means that we have eyes on everything, but it also means it's really hard to lesson plan. So there are times that you have to look at all of that, find where the overlap is. But as a head Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: director, you have to have what your true north is. And you go, Okay, I need to know that at the end of the day, I lesson planned for this because to me, this is the number one most important thing that needed to be done today. And yes, I am hearing. and taking into account what everybody else is saying. Chris McLellan: Right, because your percussion person is gonna have their their priorities, your guard person's gonna have their priorities, and I've been there, you know. We tina: Yes. Mm-hmm. No, it's true. Yeah. Eric Rath: Yeah. Yeah. Chris McLellan: we all talk about those things and it's like, yes, let's but let's go back to this latest performance and let's listen to these tapes and what is being said the most, and and let's hit that first. Yeah, awesome. Anything else that you would implement immediately? Eric Rath: no, I would say that this is the time of year that if you are feeling like there are elements of the season that you wish you could have gotten back, that it would be wise to take notes, to journal a little bit, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Yeah. Eric Rath: to find I I'll even do this because you can do this. I'll I'll go into a an itinerary that I send out to the kids, a schedule of events. And if it's in Google, I can create comments in that that are only visible to me. So when I pull it up next year to kind of see what I did and pull that information forward, tina: yeah. Eric Rath: I have those comments and I can say, yeah, this was not enough time right here, or this was too much time. But I think if this is the point in the season where you're saying, I wish I had done things differently. Don't just sit on that emotion, but really write yourself for the future and tina: Yes. Eric Rath: say, if you don't like how this is going, you may not be able to do it right now. But what you can do right now is talk to your future self about, okay, I wish Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: I had made this a higher priority, or I wish I had not brushed this off, or I wish I had really given more time to this. We always take time after we get back from the state marching contest. knocking on wood and we'll we take a morning off all of our staff we go have breakfast everybody has an assignment and we sit there with pancakes and laptops and we go through all of this stuff and it is like that's what I go back to in June and I'll look at it and I go, Okay, yeah, Chris McLellan: Mm-hmm. tina: Debrie thing, yeah. Eric Rath: this was good. I remember us talking about this. Okay, no, that's right. But I think that's gonna be better because we made a design change here. And just having that information, you're you're doing yourself a favor. By informing your future self about what needs to change. Chris McLellan: Yeah, it I think that's that's awesome. And we've we've talked about Tina and I on this podcast before, and I I I'm a big believer in journaling. I did I did it every single day. I I work with my student teachers, I give them a journal, you know, at the beginning of our semester and I'm like, I want you to use this. Here's how I want you to use this. and for me, when I was when I was working at Glenrose, I had an hour drive to school and back every Eric Rath: Mm-hmm. Chris McLellan: day, And back then I had my little voice recorder, in my car. And at going home going home every day, I would just kind of talk to myself in the voice recorder about what went well that day, what I needed to work on the next day, what I don't want to do again, you know, all these types of things. And then the next morning on the way back, I'd I'd back to school, I would listen to that just Eric Rath: Mm. Chris McLellan: to remind myself of you know what I need to prioritize and things like that. Well, I I would keep all of that. And nowadays, I'm not going back to school and and stuff every day, but if I'm going to work with a student teacher, if I'm going to minor at a school, if I'm going to do a clinic somewhere on my way home, now I have my little AI recorder that I use. And sometimes it's putting in, comments that I want to send to the director post clinic. I did that this past Friday night. I was working with Santo High School. And they did a run through at the end and and the director said, Hey, I want you to send me your your comments, And so on the way home, I'm AI, voice recording. And then that thing puts it into bullet points, it puts it into charts, whatever I want it to do, and I just email it to them, Those are great habits to get into, you Eric Rath: Yes. Chris McLellan: just so that you can remember and so that you can apply that next year. and I save all that stuff, and it's so easy to save because it's all digital. It doesn't take up any space, But you can access it, you can go back and look at it. so I I think that's wonderful. journaling is something that unfortunately I don't think a lot of people do on a regular basis. And I think that that's the best way to learn and to remember what we do want to do and what we don't want to do. So we want to thank you, Eric, for joining us tonight. Really appreciate your insights. Yeah, some really good conversations on tina: Yeah, thank you. It was great. Yes. Mm-hmm. Eric Rath: Yeah, thank you guys. Chris McLellan: some things. And I'm hoping that this will help some folks who are entering into mid-October and maybe struggling with motivation, struggling with continuing to push forward. maybe some ideas on how to do that. So if you're a band director heading into area or state, we'd love to hear from you. What are you doing to keep your students motivated? What strategies have worked, what haven't? And please follow the Unconducted Curriculum podcast on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and all the other platforms. And please share this episode with a director who needs a little extra motivation during the final stretch of marching season.