Latest / Babes, how did you get here / Bajan by Birth, Jamaican by Heart: How I Found Love, Community & My Calling in Kingston

Transcript

Bajan by Birth, Jamaican by Heart: How I Found Love, Community & My Calling in Kingston · Babes, how did you get here

0:00
Would say, be ready to experience love.
0:05
If there are any misconceptions about living in Jamaica, what do you think they are?
0:08
I think that people believe that we're living in a place where we're living in fair.
0:16
Okay.
0:17
I think one of the biggest things is people think that Jamaica is just
0:21
crime central. Right.
0:23
And I'm not saying it's not, but I just think that you need to know how to keep your head on.
0:28
But it is, it is known.
0:30
Like when I go to Barbies, people are like always like, you can't go here.
0:34
Do you, are you, are you able to like, you don't go to the supermarket when it's dark?
0:38
And I'm like, yes, you can.
0:41
You just have to have your radars up, but that's everywhere in the world.
0:44
If somebody is thinking about what would be to Jamaica, what advice do you have for them?
0:47
Would say, be ready to experience love.
0:53
That's what I would tell them, because I think Jamaicans are filled with love and warmth.
0:57
Honestly, so I would tell anybody who plans to move there,
1:01
you're going to be welcomed with love for the most welcome to a life elsewhere.
1:06
The podcast that tells the unique stories of those who have had the courage to move abroad.
1:11
I am April Jackson.
1:13
And I'll be speaking with Jiveka Lalwani Chugani.
1:16
She goes by Jiveem.
1:17
Although born and raised in Barbados, her journey in Jamaica began as a student at university,
1:23
but transformed when she fell in love and married a Jamaican.
1:27
By profession, she's a physiotherapist.
1:29
But if you ask her, her real job, her first job is a mother.
1:34
And as a proud Hindu woman, Jiveem bodies the richness of weaving nationalities,
1:40
ethnicities and traditions into a life that is deeply rooted in love, family and adaptability.
1:47
So Jiveem, you live in Jamaica, but you are from Barbados. Tell me how you ended up here.
1:54
Okay, so in a very short story, I came here when I was 18 to study at the University of the West Indies,
2:02
where I did my physical therapy degree.
2:04
Sure.
2:05
And I should say I fell in love with a Jamaican and then decided to stay.
2:13
So I did my degree here and I met him when I was 18 and this is 22 years later.
2:19
And we're married for 16 years now with two daughters who are also Jamaican.
2:25
So when you first came for university, was the plan initially to just come here?
2:28
Is it a three or four year program?
2:30
It's a three and a half and then a year of internship.
2:33
So about four and a half years?
2:35
Yes.
2:36
And then the plan was originally to go back to Barbados?
2:38
So the thing is, Barbados doesn't require an internship with a physical therapy degree.
2:47
So here I am telling my parents, like, you know, I think I should do an internship
2:52
because, you know, the experience in Jamaica, I'm not going to get that Barbados.
2:55
You know, Barbados is so small and people say that if you do medicine in Jamaica,
3:01
you can literally practice anywhere in the world.
3:03
Okay, why is that?
3:04
And lack of resources to start with, just the amount of cases that you see,
3:11
it's very vast and so it gives you a lot more experience.
3:17
And so I remember calling my parents and saying, yeah, you know,
3:20
I think I'll just stay another year and do my intern because suppose I want to go elsewhere
3:26
and they're like, you sure?
3:29
And I'm like, yeah, just just a year, just one more year.
3:32
And they agreed and I ended up staying.
3:35
And the reason I did it was because at that point, my husband and I were, you know,
3:40
so kind of making things, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was not the internship.
3:48
But, yeah, so I ended up staying here.
3:52
I moved back after my internship for a couple of months and traveled with my parents and,
3:58
you know, did the long distance.
4:01
That was a great test as well and that's how we knew this was it.
4:04
By the way, my first love, I married my first love.
4:08
So, um, yeah, so in a, in a nutshell, I would say,
4:13
quick one. You know how CEOs lead teams with clarity, strategy and calm?
4:18
Now, imagine parenting just like that.
4:21
My course, parent like a CEO, helps you build a home that runs with confidence,
4:26
not chaos, no shouting, no guesswork, no guilt.
4:30
Just systems, structure and a mindset that works for you and your babies.
4:35
I will show you how to lead your family like I have led my teams with vision,
4:39
compassion and a plan that sticks.
4:41
This is about applying business principles to raise happy and healthy kids.
4:46
So, if you're tired of winging it and ready to parent with intention,
4:49
click the link to check out parent like a CEO.
4:52
You've got these waves and now you'll have the tools too.
4:56
I would say I lived in Jamaica for four years.
4:58
I moved away for about six or seven months.
5:01
I was traveling. I also started a private practice in Barbados
5:06
while I was there, which was phenomenal.
5:08
And then I came back to Jamaica in that time period to do a post-grad course
5:17
because Jamaica being a bigger city,
5:19
Kingston being a bigger country.
5:23
What happened is there were a lot more courses available here than in Barbados.
5:28
And so a lot of us in the diaspora would come to Jamaica to take the courses.
5:32
And so I remember ringing my husband and saying,
5:34
yes, I'll be coming up for this.
5:36
And I think in this head he was preparing to propose.
5:39
Okay.
5:39
And so that's what happened.
5:41
I came up and he proposed and it was an immediate call to my parents.
5:46
And I think they were like hoping this was going to happen.
5:50
And yeah, Jamaica's been home ever since.
5:53
So when you come as a student, had you visited us hard before?
5:57
I had, after my common entrance exam, my parents decided to take a cruise,
6:03
a royal Caribbean cruise.
6:05
And that's when it just started this whole cruise line cruise ship.
6:08
Right.
6:08
And Jamaica was one of the ports that we stopped at.
6:11
You stopped in Fongland?
6:12
I stopped in Otrios.
6:14
Okay.
6:14
At that time they would stop in Ochi.
6:16
And I remember climbing the Duns River and thinking to myself,
6:20
wow, what a nice place.
6:21
Okay.
6:22
You know, but never knew that this would be home.
6:26
And when you come from university, university anywhere,
6:29
it's a huge time where we're adjusting.
6:32
We're getting used to a new curriculum, new space.
6:36
What is your first impression of Jamaica at that time?
6:39
So just backing up a little bit in Barbados,
6:42
Jamaica was always kind of portrayed as being a bit scary.
6:50
Okay.
6:51
Yeah, and Jamaica is being aggressive.
6:53
And, you know, it's, you have to be careful.
6:56
And coming from Barbados, which was in comparison,
6:59
I mean, you could leave your doors open and, you know, it wasn't.
7:02
So I want to say that I was a bit clouded with that sort of,
7:08
you know, thought, but I'm not kidding when I landed here
7:13
for the second time because of course I came when I was 11.
7:15
But coming at 11 and 18, it's a totally different experience.
7:19
I just fell in love with the mountains.
7:21
I was like, this place is so green and Barbados is a flat, right?
7:25
We're surrounded just by water, which is absolutely beautiful.
7:28
But this was such a, this was such a delight to see like so much greenery
7:33
and I really fell in love with the mountains.
7:35
So I would say I immediately was like, I could live there immediately.
7:42
What was your university experience like?
7:44
I would say it was, I would, I would say it was beautiful.
7:52
Honestly, I met, I remember coming off of the plane and starting
7:59
because I had come very close to when school was starting.
8:02
And so I reached on the day of my orientation.
8:04
I'd never forget this.
8:06
Like I told my parents I'm literally reaching when orientation is going to be happening.
8:10
But that's how things played out and it was fine.
8:13
And I remember just being so accepted and received with so much warmth and so much love.
8:23
And I'll be honest, those friends that met me on that first day are friends now 22 years later.
8:30
Oh wow.
8:31
22 years later.
8:32
When your husband proposes, are you guys sure that you're going to live in Jamaica
8:36
or was it an option that perhaps you would build a family in Barbados or even elsewhere?
8:41
It was sure shot that we would live in Jamaica.
8:44
Why?
8:44
My husband was, it's very deep rooted with Jamaica.
8:49
He has his business hair that has been running.
8:51
It's a family owned business for 45 years.
8:54
And so Jamaica was it and he invested hair.
8:59
He built hair.
9:00
He, you know, so this was, this was home.
9:02
And I knew when we got married, this is where we would build our family.
9:06
It was, it was pretty sure shot.
9:09
Did you have any reservations?
9:10
Absolutely not.
9:11
No.
9:12
Absolutely not.
9:13
So you start your family before that you are, because you said you had a practice,
9:19
your physiotherapy practice in Barbados, you closed that.
9:22
So it was a partnership.
9:24
Okay.
9:25
And she knew that I was hair very temporary.
9:30
I think she from the get-go was light jivey.
9:33
Your heart is still in jimmy.
9:34
Sure.
9:35
So I always tell people, I'm, I'm, I'm Beijing by birth,
9:38
but I'm jimmy can by heart.
9:40
Really?
9:40
My heart is full jimmy can.
9:42
Okay.
9:43
You know, so I have to just say that over and over because that's how I really feel.
9:49
So yes, when I left there, it was a partnership.
9:54
So she was, yeah, it was very easy for me to just, you know, exit with no hesitation.
10:01
Sure.
10:02
And then when you're in Jamaica, do you open your own practice or do you work elsewhere?
10:06
So when I came back to Jamaica, I was working with my husband and his business.
10:11
Okay.
10:12
Co-director.
10:12
Co-director.
10:13
That was interesting.
10:16
You know, when you're a physiotherapist by profession, but the truth is,
10:20
growing up, my parents also ran a business.
10:23
Okay.
10:23
And so it was very familiar to me.
10:25
It wasn't, you know, something that I hadn't seen or know the runnings of.
10:30
But it was, it was interesting being with your partner and being in the business together.
10:36
But I think I was more of a moral support to him and the keen eye on what to purchase.
10:45
So I was that kind of helping hand or that sort of support system.
10:54
And then do you, when do you start having babies?
10:57
Because I know that motherhood is super important to you.
11:01
So two years after we got married, and we got married young.
11:04
So I was 24, and he was 26.
11:07
So, but because we were, as I told you, when I was 18, is when I met him.
11:11
And since then, we've been together.
11:13
So we did feel very comfortable that, you know, this is where we both were at.
11:19
You know, we want to be parents.
11:21
Right.
11:22
And so two years later is when we had our first.
11:27
Okay.
11:27
Yes.
11:28
And how was motherhood for you in those early stages from pregnancy?
11:32
How did you feel?
11:33
You know, I think I love being pregnant.
11:36
Oh, okay.
11:36
Yes, I actually love that feeling of being pregnant.
11:40
Okay.
11:41
All the joys that come with it.
11:43
And I know it's not for everybody.
11:44
Sure.
11:44
And we, yeah, like everyone has their own experience with it.
11:50
But for the most part, I truly embrace that.
11:54
You know, it was very, I don't know if it's because it's kind of in our blood.
11:59
That whole nurturing, you know, I think that really roots back to my Indian culture as well.
12:06
I feel like we're, you know, being a mom is such a, such a prestigious thing.
12:12
Sure.
12:12
And it's so, maybe it's cultural, I don't know.
12:15
But it was something I truly, truly enjoyed.
12:19
And I remember just enjoying the journey, you know.
12:25
And I know it doesn't look like that for everybody.
12:28
And so it's so understandable because every woman goes through different experiences with that.
12:35
But for me, it was beautiful.
12:38
It's funny to say about your Indian culture.
12:40
Do you ever, whenever you're traveling or maybe speaking to people that aren't aware of the
12:44
Caribbean, are people ever surprised that you are from Barbados?
12:48
Many times.
12:50
Many, many times.
12:51
And they're like, are you sure you're Beijing?
12:54
And I'm like, yes, there are certain things that I have to be.
12:57
And it's really, it's good because I like that opportunity to kind of then say,
13:03
well, yes, Barbados has people like me, you know.
13:07
And to be honest, I found in Jamaica when I came here, it was, it was of no surprise.
13:17
You know, I found that it's very cosmopolitan here.
13:22
There are so many cultural exchanges in Jamaica,
13:26
which is why I think they really stand by out of many one people.
13:29
I honestly find that they embrace the cultures.
13:34
So.
13:35
And then in Barbados, what would you say is quintessentially Asian culture?
13:41
Like, what does it mean to be Asian?
13:46
Maybe you spend most of your days surfing,
13:50
chilling on the beach, drinking coconut water.
13:53
You know, that's one side of it, yeah.
13:56
But, um, vegans are highly educated.
14:00
You know, our literacy rate is very high because
14:03
relativity is 300,000 people.
14:05
Okay.
14:05
That cover the island.
14:07
But, um, Barbados really pushes on
14:11
keeping their people very, very educated.
14:16
And, um, they support them in every way.
14:20
So being Beijing means that you are going to get health care.
14:23
And you're going to get an education because it's just part of you being a Beijing.
14:28
And by contrast, what does it mean to you to be Jamaican?
14:33
Let's have a good time!
14:35
If you're a Jamaican, that means like, let's just have a great time.
14:38
Jamaicans are such warm people.
14:42
And so I think being Jamaican people always think, wow,
14:45
Bob Marley, you know, they think, oh, patty, they always, they're like,
14:50
all my friends always say, you know, when they come to Jamaica, they're like,
14:53
this place is just paradise.
14:56
Yeah.
14:56
I do spoke about food.
14:58
How do you feel about Beijing food versus Jamaica food?
15:03
April, are you really asking me that question?
15:07
Well, to be honest, I think that if I wasn't a physiotherapist,
15:10
I would be a food connoisseur.
15:12
Really?
15:12
Yes, I'd probably be like an Anthony Bourdain traveling the world,
15:15
trying all different dishes.
15:18
There is a vast difference.
15:20
I think it still has a Caribbean flare, both of them.
15:23
So they use a lot of like these ground provisions and so on.
15:26
There's a lot of comparisons.
15:28
But Jamaican food has a little bit more spice.
15:34
And a little bit more kick because of their jerk.
15:38
And you know, so it's not that Beijing's food doesn't.
15:42
It really, but I think it's it varies.
15:46
So for example, I think Barbados has amazing seafood like they're flying fish and
15:50
you know, you can't get that here.
15:52
Right.
15:52
But then here you have your pan chicken and you're, you know, so...
15:56
What is the thing that you missed the most when you came in terms of food?
16:01
I'm going to say flying fish, yeah.
16:03
For someone that doesn't know what a flying fish is, could you describe it?
16:05
Oh my gosh, it's so interesting because they look like little silver.
16:09
I don't even want to know.
16:11
I don't know what to describe it has, right?
16:13
And they actually fly out with water like this.
16:16
But when they're fillet, it looks like a thin slither of fish.
16:22
And the best way to eat it is bread it.
16:25
Okay.
16:25
In a salt bread, yeah, with some mayonnaise and mustard and some
16:31
Beijing hot sauce, perfect, perfect, perfect.
16:35
I miss flying fish a lot.
16:36
Yeah.
16:37
Yeah.
16:38
How often do you go to Barbados?
16:40
I try to go there at least twice a year, twice a year.
16:44
Because my parents are still there, so tend to make the trip back so that my
16:48
children can also get some time with them, you know?
16:51
So...
16:52
What do you think of Barbados?
16:54
They think it's small compared to Jamaica, but they love Barbados so much for them.
17:02
And when we're here in Jamaica to get to a good beach, you have to kind of go a distance.
17:06
Sure.
17:07
You know?
17:07
Whereas in Barbados, on the left hand side of you when you're driving on the road at every
17:12
distance, you're going to see the water.
17:13
Sure.
17:14
And so I think that's what they love about Barbados.
17:16
The beaches, the accessibility, you know?
17:19
You can just go at any point in time.
17:24
When you came, was there anything that was a particular culture shock?
17:28
Because a lot of people who don't know the Caribbean as a region,
17:31
I think there's a tendency for people to kind of just say we're all the same.
17:35
And like just group a whole set of countries together.
17:40
Is there anything coming from Barbados that really struck you as particularly different in Jamaica?
17:44
Not really.
17:45
Not really.
17:45
Not really.
17:47
And I say this because I think the culture kind of translates across.
17:53
I don't, I wouldn't say that there was any shock for me.
17:57
The thing that shocked me, I've been to Barbados twice now.
18:00
The first time I went, I went for the food and wine and rum festival.
18:04
Oh, wow.
18:05
One thing I will say that Barbados has a much larger selection of restaurants
18:09
right between four walls.
18:11
Anyone who comes to visit me in Jamaica, we're going to eat pancake,
18:14
we're going to health show, we're going to somewhere on the roadside.
18:17
Like those are my favorite spots.
18:18
Yes.
18:19
Whereas especially for such a small island,
18:21
you have a high concentration of restaurants.
18:24
Definitely.
18:25
And I remember I went to an event on Sandy Lane.
18:28
And so you have to pre-pay at the time.
18:30
It was like, I want to say 2009, the first time I went.
18:33
Yes.
18:33
So it's a long time ago and the tickets were still $250 US per ticket.
18:38
Yeah.
18:39
And so we go in, there's like chefs from America.
18:41
It's a very grand event.
18:43
And so you're seeing like your favorite TV chefs and they've come to Barbados
18:46
to put on this beautiful fair food.
18:49
And before the dinner, there is like an open bar.
18:52
And so I'm trying to get a drink.
18:53
And nobody would serve me.
18:55
Nobody would serve me at the bar.
18:57
And I was like, oh, this is really strange.
18:58
And I said to this guy, beside me, it's a tall white guy from New York.
19:01
So do you mind just ordering a drink for me
19:03
because I can't get a drink on a Y.
19:05
And he's like, oh, I'm not sure why this is happening.
19:07
It's a bit awkward, but I'll order the drink.
19:09
On my flight back, I lived in New York at the time.
19:12
And I said to the guys on JetBlue, I was like,
19:13
this was really strange experience.
19:15
And he said, well, it was because you're on Sandy Lane.
19:17
I was like, really?
19:19
There's not her place that I've ever been in Jamaica
19:21
where somebody wouldn't serve me.
19:23
And it was kind of like any invasion that I spoke to,
19:26
just accepted was because I was on Sandy Lane
19:29
and so that's why I couldn't get a drink.
19:31
You know, this is very interesting.
19:32
And maybe April, because I left there so young,
19:36
and I probably didn't experience,
19:38
because I probably didn't do as much, I think,
19:43
because I spent most of my time here.
19:44
Sure.
19:45
But I wouldn't doubt that because, yes, there is still some of,
19:51
some of, I think I will want to say there is a bit of classism still.
19:55
Sure.
19:55
But Jamaica is very classist.
19:57
Yeah.
19:57
I think, right?
19:59
I always tell people that I think Jamaica's class is before racist.
20:03
And so I thought that that was a really stark difference,
20:05
especially because you're in a place that you've had to pay to be.
20:08
100%.
20:09
So I thought that was just weird.
20:11
And I guess I was more taken aback
20:13
that nobody else seemed surprised.
20:15
I think from Barbados.
20:16
Yeah, from Barbados.
20:17
You mean the locals were like,
20:18
yeah, well that's where, because of where you were,
20:20
as if it was like my problem for being in Sandy Lane
20:24
and expecting different.
20:26
But I know Sandy Lane is a beautiful place
20:28
and it's very, very wealthy property
20:30
and it's all very pristine.
20:32
100% and so on.
20:33
And I didn't even see Sandy Lane like that
20:36
because I left at the time where, of course,
20:38
it was still the golf course and still very known as,
20:41
oh yes, prestige and,
20:43
but the development after I left was so much more.
20:46
Right more.
20:47
Yeah, so much more.
20:49
Cool.
20:49
So then when you're in Jamaica and you're living here,
20:52
is there any point that you're like,
20:55
maybe this isn't the place for me?
20:57
No.
20:57
Raising your kids with your family far away,
21:00
I know that that can be a challenge.
21:01
I've experienced it myself.
21:03
Were you able to easily make your own community
21:05
here that was able to support you?
21:08
Yeah, definitely.
21:09
And I think because I was hair as a student,
21:12
that made the big difference for me.
21:15
Because as I told you,
21:16
some of those friends are still my friends up till today.
21:19
And when I say friends, I mean friend friend,
21:21
you know, like real, the ride or die friends, you know.
21:25
And even they have a big Indian community here in Jamaica.
21:28
Okay.
21:29
And so I thought this was something so special
21:32
because I was still able to keep with traditions
21:35
that I wanted to.
21:37
And my girls still get to grow up
21:39
knowing their Indian roots.
21:42
Can you tell me some of these traditions
21:43
that are important to you?
21:44
Oh.
21:45
Well, number one, I think the food is very important.
21:48
Okay.
21:49
So in Indian culture, food is like a love language.
21:54
We believe so much that food brings people together.
21:57
You could be upset with somebody,
21:58
but when you serve them a beautiful dish,
22:01
that's just saying, I'm so sorry.
22:03
Sure.
22:03
You know, forgive me.
22:06
So it is something that we still keep very tight
22:10
in our household.
22:12
Also, a lot of the festivals,
22:17
like the Valley Festival of Lights,
22:18
holy, the renewal of evil goodness over evil
22:23
that's still celebrated in Jamaica,
22:25
absolutely.
22:27
And so we definitely still keep with those cultures.
22:32
And how would you say that you weave
22:36
in this beautiful different nationalities,
22:38
different ethnicities,
22:39
and you still seem to almost weave it in seamlessly
22:43
into your home in Jamaica?
22:46
I'm going to say that my husband also.
22:50
So we're kind of on the same page with that.
22:52
And I think that is the game changer
22:54
when your partner is also very focused
22:59
on keeping traditions
23:00
and wanting that to be part of the children's lives.
23:04
And also we're very lucky to have his mom and dad
23:08
that are in the home as well.
23:10
And so, you know, grandparents are going to give
23:12
your children a completely different experience than you.
23:16
And I feel that a lot of the cultures
23:18
kept because we have their grandparents around them.
23:23
Amazing.
23:24
Yeah.
23:24
And how do you think of Indian food in Jamaica?
23:27
Is it as good as?
23:29
Is it what you need?
23:30
Is there any time that you're like,
23:31
oh, this is quite right?
23:32
Because someone else said that they love Indian food in Jamaica.
23:36
So I'm wondering with your expertise,
23:38
do you agree?
23:39
I agree 100%.
23:40
You do.
23:41
I do.
23:41
And the reason is because I just know these people
23:45
so intimately because I am such a foodie.
23:48
And so if I have to customize a little bit and say,
23:51
well, could you just put a little bit more?
23:53
You get exactly what you want.
23:54
Okay.
23:55
And for the most part, it is super authentic.
23:58
Really?
23:58
Yeah, because a lot of these chefs come from India.
24:00
Okay.
24:01
And they reside here and this becomes home as well.
24:04
Sure.
24:04
For a short period of time.
24:06
And they actually bring the authenticity to Jamaica.
24:11
Is there a difference?
24:12
Because for example, Chinese Jamaican food
24:14
is very, very different to like Chinese food in the UK.
24:18
It just tastes very different.
24:19
It is very different.
24:20
I remember the first, I used to love Vindaloo.
24:22
That was that dish here, right?
24:23
And then I go to London and have Vindaloo.
24:25
And it is the hottest thing ever.
24:28
To the point where I genuinely thought
24:29
that there was some miscommunication.
24:31
And maybe I said Vindaloo, the way to didn't hear Vindaloo,
24:34
but what came, resemble nothing of what I would have
24:38
Vindaloo here.
24:39
And so I was just wondering, would you say that Indian food here
24:42
has a particular Jamaicanness in the way
24:44
that Chinese food does?
24:45
I do think so.
24:47
You do?
24:48
How would you describe it?
24:49
I would say that they have catered to the taste
24:53
in a way that they're not so.
24:56
So the masala that they use here, and those
24:59
are like the spices, they have curated it
25:03
knowing the flavor of Jamaica.
25:04
And I think that they really, it's not something
25:07
that they just come, they test.
25:08
They do so many things, when they launch new dishes,
25:11
they call people to come and that too from every walk of life
25:16
so that they get a true picture of what really works.
25:20
And funny enough, Jamaican Chinese food
25:24
is very different than Beijing Chinese food.
25:26
Oh really?
25:26
In what way?
25:28
It's completely different.
25:30
The flavors different, how they do certain sauces
25:34
are completely different than marbados.
25:36
Yeah, I would never get Sashuan eggplant,
25:40
aubergines in Barbados, and you can find that
25:43
at every Chinese restaurant in Jamaica.
25:45
Like I never thought that aubergines or eggplant
25:48
could be cooked in that way until I came to Jamaica
25:52
just to give you an example.
25:54
Yeah, that's really interesting.
25:55
That's really interesting.
25:57
And so food, clearly you love food,
25:59
it means a lot to you.
26:00
Is there a favorite Jamaican dish that you have?
26:03
Favorite Jamaican dish.
26:05
I am going to say roast breadfruit.
26:07
I love roast breadfruit, and I love roast breadfruit,
26:12
and I love it with a good steamed fish,
26:15
with the okra.
26:16
I was going to say, do you like okra?
26:18
Yes, love it.
26:19
Because that's a staple in Indian cooking.
26:21
Yes, okra is something that we can do in a million ways.
26:24
Yes, I went to an Indian restaurant in the UK
26:27
and they had breaded the okra.
26:29
Yes, and fried it.
26:30
And so I then took that on my menu
26:33
because I hadn't seen it in that way.
26:34
The okra was steamed fish, right?
26:37
And then I see it all crispy,
26:38
and I served it with like a peanut spicy sauce,
26:41
and I had people who didn't eat okra
26:43
because some people find it too slimy,
26:44
definitely.
26:45
Definitely.
26:46
And now that we have deep fried it,
26:47
they're like, I'm sold.
26:48
So okra is a vegetable.
26:50
I mean steamed is so slimy,
26:52
and so it's a very acquired taste
26:55
like my children,
26:56
don't like okra in steamed fish.
26:58
Ok.
26:59
But now if I do it,
27:00
stir fried with potato,
27:02
aloo, and I put all the dry masala,
27:04
then I serve that with a hot roti.
27:06
You have it?
27:07
They're sold.
27:08
Oh gosh, I'm sold.
27:09
They're slimy, right?
27:11
We've got to have an Indian cook date.
27:13
Oh man.
27:14
So your kids go to school here,
27:16
and how do you think,
27:18
is there a difference
27:19
with the education system
27:20
in Jamaica versus Barbados?
27:22
Yes, there is.
27:24
And I've seen that in recent times,
27:26
so it was on par.
27:27
I think for the most part,
27:29
but I would say in the last five years,
27:31
I think Jamaica has taken the education system up
27:34
a different notch.
27:35
Ok.
27:36
And they have moved past
27:38
the whole parrot learning.
27:40
Ok.
27:41
What we call parrot learning,
27:42
is re-gurgitate.
27:43
Yes, re-gurgitate,
27:44
and you're just basically swatting.
27:45
Because I remember Jamaica's used to tell me,
27:47
girl, we've got a squat match.
27:48
You know?
27:49
Squat match.
27:50
It's actually for subjects like anatomy,
27:52
where the bicep is where the bicep is.
27:55
You can't change that.
27:56
So you better swat it.
27:57
You know?
27:58
Never heard that word in Barbados.
27:59
Never.
28:00
So I think in Jamaica now,
28:03
they have changed the exam.
28:05
The format.
28:06
The format.
28:07
Completely.
28:08
And I think that they are using
28:10
a lot of critical thinking.
28:11
Ok.
28:12
In the aim that children should, you know,
28:15
be able to go anywhere and be able to do anything.
28:18
But that's a love hate,
28:20
because it can be pressuring.
28:22
Mm-hmm.
28:23
Yeah.
28:24
I can see that you want the children to reach a certain level.
28:27
Sure.
28:28
But you know, with like everything,
28:30
there's other things that can creep in with that.
28:33
So it's on a different level.
28:35
Jamaica has definitely taken up the education system
28:38
a notch.
28:39
And another reason why I say that is because they have a lot of
28:41
exchange programs.
28:42
And so two of my friends,
28:43
their children came up here and did an exchange.
28:46
Ok.
28:47
And after talking to them, they were like,
28:49
wow, you guys are way ahead.
28:51
Really?
28:52
They were like, this curriculum is,
28:54
you guys are doing way more here.
28:56
Ok.
28:57
So that's how I knew that this is really what's happening.
28:59
Sure.
29:00
Are there any words that we use in the same,
29:03
what have different meanings?
29:04
Yes.
29:06
Number one, April,
29:07
Aki.
29:08
We going back to food.
29:09
Aki.
29:10
Y'all call Aki.
29:11
Aki.
29:12
Aki.
29:13
And what y'all call Ginnips,
29:15
we call Aki and Barbados.
29:16
Oh, really?
29:17
Yes.
29:18
But you don't use our Aki at all,
29:20
so you don't need a word for that.
29:21
No, so Ginnips.
29:22
Yes.
29:23
In Jamaica.
29:24
Yes.
29:25
Equals.
29:26
Aki and Barbados.
29:27
Ok.
29:28
So that's like, number one,
29:29
when I came here and people were like,
29:30
we want to eat Ginnips.
29:31
And I'm like, you mean Aki, right?
29:33
You're like, no Ginnips.
29:35
Ginnips.
29:36
I'm like, are you sure they're like,
29:38
yeah, what are you talking about?
29:40
So I remember that being the first thing that I was like,
29:44
I'm sure about, you know?
29:45
Is there anything else that was a particular culture shock,
29:48
not necessarily language, but maybe something that happens
29:51
in the way of life that we might take for granted?
29:53
Like my cousin, my friend came from New York to visit me,
29:57
and we were by a man apart, and I'm waiting to give way,
30:00
and there were some goats that crossed the road,
30:02
and she says to me,
30:03
if I were a goat in a city,
30:05
and I swear to you,
30:06
I would have been about 20 at the time,
30:08
and it had never occurred to me that it was straight,
30:10
I didn't even notice the goats.
30:12
Yeah.
30:13
It was only until she said,
30:14
I was like, that is a bit strange,
30:16
that there were goats crossing the road.
30:18
Yeah.
30:19
So there was one thing that really shocked me when I came
30:23
in terms of that, and that was like the window washers
30:26
that stand at the stoplight.
30:28
You don't see that in Barbados.
30:30
Okay.
30:31
And so initially, but I remember traveling
30:33
and going to India and seeing that,
30:35
like it was a norm.
30:36
Right.
30:37
You know, and talking about sheep on sheep, you know,
30:39
cows walk around the streets of India.
30:41
Yeah.
30:42
Just talking about our sacred, though.
30:43
Very sacred.
30:44
And so you're absolutely not moving that cow.
30:46
You let the cow stay, you know?
30:49
So I remember being very shocked at the window washers.
30:53
Yeah.
30:54
I can see it going back to India.
30:56
Yeah.
30:57
So there is a difference in terms of how Indian culture
31:00
has translated as it's moved across the world.
31:03
100%.
31:04
Yeah.
31:05
100%.
31:06
In a way.
31:07
I would say that, so based on geographic location,
31:12
I think, from how you choose to live.
31:17
Okay.
31:18
How within our scene, you know, how we eat.
31:24
In India, a lot of the time that you hear, like,
31:26
eating with your hands is such a big thing.
31:28
But across the diaspora now, it's not, I mean,
31:31
we still do it with certain meals because, like,
31:33
rice and spinach together with yogurt mixed with your hands tastes
31:37
100 times better.
31:39
There are certain things that you have to.
31:41
Yeah.
31:42
There's no doubt about it.
31:43
Sure.
31:44
And that channa batura, you need to eat the chickpea
31:47
with that fried-
31:48
I love eating with honey.
31:49
Yeah.
31:50
It's such a, you know,
31:51
it's a very different experience.
31:52
Very.
31:53
And the taste is completely different.
31:54
Yeah.
31:55
And we still do it, you know.
31:56
But what I'm trying to say is that it has,
31:59
has very short.
32:00
Something as small as that has changed across the world.
32:03
And then I remember, like, going to New York the other day
32:07
and my cousin was eating roti with, with his, like, you know,
32:13
biting the roti and eating a scoop of, I'm like,
32:16
but it just doesn't taste the same.
32:18
You need to, like, break the roti and, like,
32:20
especially with roti.
32:21
You want to, right?
32:22
But I mean, I think it's just because of where you are.
32:25
Okay.
32:26
And how you're raised.
32:27
Sure.
32:28
So it, like, something like that has definitely changed.
32:31
And I would also say, on the flip side, though,
32:36
I will say something.
32:38
And I remember visiting India and my cousin saved me,
32:42
well, you see more traditional than us.
32:46
And I was like, oh, in what way?
32:48
Just like, well, you, you know, you know,
32:50
certain mantras and prayers that we don't ever know.
32:53
And we live here.
32:54
And I think what it is is that when you're in this part
32:58
of the world, the West, because you want to still hold on
33:03
to that culture, you make so much more of an effort.
33:06
Sure.
33:07
And so you make it part of a priority.
33:10
Whereas in India, because you're kind of immersed in it,
33:13
you don't necessarily make the effort to say,
33:15
oh, I need to teach my children this for this.
33:18
Sure.
33:19
There's a prayer we say before we eat,
33:21
or there's a universal prayer we love to say.
33:23
So I remember them telling me, like,
33:25
I think you're more traditional than us.
33:27
And you live in the Caribbean.
33:28
You know?
33:29
Sure.
33:30
So there's so many things that vary, I guess, geographically
33:35
for the better.
33:36
Right.
33:37
For the better.
33:38
And then when you think of raising your children here,
33:43
do you think that you are different as in your personal experience
33:48
has been different?
33:49
You know, you came here as a student, you then got married.
33:52
There are very different stages in your life.
33:55
How do you think that living in Jamaica has influenced
33:58
those different stages?
34:00
Well, I would say that it wasn't so different
34:05
because I was born in Barbados.
34:07
Okay.
34:08
And yes, I was raised completely with my roots
34:12
of Indian culture.
34:14
And you know what happens, April, is that when you're a season
34:17
that way, automatically, you end up translating that
34:21
with your children, because it's almost as if this is what you know.
34:26
You're passing that back.
34:27
And you're kind of just passing it on.
34:29
Yeah.
34:30
So it didn't change much in Jamaica because it was very similar
34:33
to growing up in Barbados where we still had to keep the culture alive.
34:38
You know, we have to keep the culture alive by doing things
34:41
and you know, having a community that celebrates everything
34:45
that's Indian or so I think for me,
34:48
it wasn't that much of a difference having raised my girls here
34:52
as opposed to when I grew up in Barbados.
34:54
I think that I have literally carboned that here
34:58
and lucky enough that there's still the availability of Indian community
35:04
and just Indian, a simple Indian store,
35:08
Indian grocery store where you can still cook your food
35:11
and still do everything.
35:13
It might sound so trivial, but those are the small things
35:15
that still keep everything alive.
35:17
For 100%.
35:18
Yeah.
35:19
Switching to gears about working and being a mom.
35:22
I know you took some time out when you had your first baby.
35:25
Yes.
35:26
And then seven years afterwards, you went back into work.
35:29
Yes.
35:30
You're practicing physiotherapy at this time.
35:32
Why did you decide that that was the time?
35:35
Why did you decide that you wanted to do that at all?
35:38
I actually, you know, with physiotherapy,
35:42
it's such a hands-on job and there's so much that you put into
35:47
physically, mentally, with your patient.
35:50
And I remember when I first got married,
35:53
I was practicing in the public sector,
35:55
so I was working at Mona Rehab and I did a couple of hours
35:58
at Boston Monty, you know, some sessions,
36:01
because I had specialized in neurophysiologists.
36:05
So a lot of, you know, children with cerebral palsy
36:10
or the ones at Mona Rehab that had spinal cord injuries.
36:13
So I also did a lot of exercise therapy.
36:16
So those were, you know, avenues that I could, you know,
36:20
disseminate what I had to share.
36:22
Sure.
36:23
And then I remember my husband and I having the conversation
36:26
saying, well, you know, your job requires you to do
36:29
so much hands-on physically.
36:31
And, you know, of course, no one knows what to expect
36:34
when you first get pregnant and it's your first pregnancy.
36:37
And you're worried about, is the cheese too soft?
36:40
Does it have bacteria, you know?
36:42
So I'm so beating that.
36:43
So I decided to take a break.
36:46
And it was 100% support of my husband,
36:49
who also was like, I think this is the time to just
36:53
give yourself, you know, enjoy the pregnancy,
36:56
enjoy being with kids.
36:58
And for some, it might seem like, you know,
37:03
you've given up your career and whatever.
37:08
And you will hear all that noise sometimes.
37:11
You will hear that, like, oh, that was such a waste.
37:14
And, you know, why?
37:16
But I consider myself very lucky to be able to take that time
37:21
to devote to my children with the support of the people
37:25
who really matter.
37:26
Sure.
37:27
Yeah, my partner, my family, my friends, who really matter.
37:30
And so I took seven years because we decided to have back to back.
37:33
So we had our first, and then two years later I was pregnant
37:36
so when one was coming out of pamper,
37:38
I had the next one, one was starting preschool
37:41
and wondering why is she being kicked out
37:43
because there's this new baby in the house.
37:45
But it was seven years of complete fulfillment as a mom.
37:50
And I would never trade that for anything.
37:53
Never trade that for me, anything at all.
37:56
But when the girls reached some sort of independence
38:00
and they were both in what we call big school,
38:03
I decided to switch hats and get back into the physio game.
38:10
Okay.
38:11
And funny enough, not to bring back this horrific time.
38:14
But it was two weeks before COVID started.
38:17
But really?
38:18
Two weeks before COVID started, I was ready.
38:20
I had bought my equipment from December
38:23
because my daughter had now started big school in September.
38:26
So I was like, okay, let me start.
38:27
You know, let me prepare, let me get myself together.
38:29
Sure.
38:30
And it wasn't easy April because seven years of being a stay at home mom,
38:35
being the chauffeur, being everything, being the nurse,
38:38
being the cook, being everything for your children.
38:41
And mind you, I'm still 100% all of that.
38:44
But it was scary.
38:47
There was fear.
38:48
Scary in what way?
38:50
I hadn't done this for seven years.
38:53
Okay.
38:54
You know, do I remember everything?
38:57
Yeah, it creeps in on you because here you are.
39:00
This is not paperwork. This is not a desk job.
39:03
Sure.
39:04
This is life.
39:05
This is someone's life.
39:06
And you are dealing with helping them.
39:09
And most times it's from a position of very weak to get strong.
39:13
Sure.
39:14
And so if you're not confident in your own skin,
39:16
how do you even attempt to help someone else?
39:20
And so there was fear, definitely.
39:23
There was excitement though, because I'm here thinking to myself,
39:27
I finally get to do what I was born to do.
39:30
Okay.
39:31
This was my feeling.
39:32
Yeah.
39:33
Oh yeah, this was my calling.
39:34
Okay.
39:35
I was put here to do what I do.
39:38
I was actually put here to improve the quality of life.
39:45
And I'll tell you a really big change that happened for me when I started back
39:51
was finding out how much I love working with geriatric patients.
39:55
Okay.
39:56
The elderly.
39:57
Yeah.
39:58
I realized that that's where I get fully inspired.
40:03
And that's what makes me look forward every single day to go to work and to see my patients.
40:09
Because they are so wise.
40:12
And when they talk about what time used to be, you gain so much.
40:18
You gain so much because it was a different realm.
40:22
They were living in a different realm.
40:25
They were living in a world that was completely different.
40:29
And being able to give them longevity, so to speak, or improve their quality of life for the final lap is very, very, very fulfilling.
40:42
And so, yes, it was, fit happens birth from seven years of being a mom and being at home.
40:50
And now it has just taken flight and I can never ask for anything more.
40:54
It has been such a beautiful day.
40:56
Is it hard to operate a business in Jamaica?
41:00
It can be.
41:02
In what way?
41:03
It can be.
41:04
If you have to try to go into the formalities of it, it becomes a bit difficult.
41:10
But because my business is very part time, I haven't faced that because I only work when the girls are in school.
41:19
So my time is very part time.
41:22
And so, again, that's a choice.
41:25
I always say when people say, yeah, find the work and life balance.
41:28
It's not about finding work and life balance because balance is not something you find very easily.
41:33
But I think it's of what you prior to rise.
41:36
And when I stepped back into this, I had said that my children and my family are first and everything else secondary.
41:43
Even when I took on my clients, I always let them know, these are my hours.
41:47
Are you able to do it within that time frame then?
41:50
I'm all yours.
41:52
But as soon as that 230 bell rings, I'm flipping my hat back to being home again.
41:58
And so I haven't faced such deep issues with setting up a business because mine is very part time.
42:07
If there are any misconceptions about living in Jamaica, what do you think they are?
42:13
I think that people believe that we're living in a place where we're living in fair.
42:22
Okay.
42:23
I think one of the biggest things is people think that Jamaica is just crime central.
42:28
Right.
42:29
And I'm not saying it's not.
42:31
But I just think that you need to know how to keep your head on.
42:35
Okay.
42:37
It is known.
42:38
Like when I go to Barbados, people are like always like, you can't go here.
42:41
Do you drive at night?
42:43
Are you able to go to the supermarket when it's dark?
42:47
And I'm like, yes, you can.
42:49
You just have to have your radars up.
42:51
But that's everywhere in the world.
42:53
Sure.
42:54
That's everywhere in the world now, April.
42:55
Like Barbados is not as safe as it used to be either.
42:58
And it's just how the world is turning.
43:00
If somebody is thinking about moving to Jamaica, what advice do you have for them?
43:06
I would say be ready to experience love.
43:16
That's what I would tell them.
43:19
Because I think Jamaicans are filled with love and warmth.
43:22
Honestly, that's been my experience living here 22 years.
43:26
I have been in Jamaica longer than Barbados, right?
43:29
Because I left at 18.
43:31
And I've been here now 22 years.
43:34
So I would tell anybody who plans to move here, you're going to be welcomed with love for the most part.
43:40
Very cool.
43:41
Yeah.
43:42
And in general, what do you think living abroad does for somebody?
43:48
It frees you.
43:50
It frees your mind because I feel that when you step away and you're living abroad,
43:55
you're able to experience different things.
44:00
When I moved away, I felt a bit liberated in a way.
44:05
In a way where I was able to experience a different culture,
44:11
but at the same time trying to keep within mind.
44:15
So you learn to kind of figure things out.
44:19
I think when you move abroad, it seasons you for challenges,
44:25
because it's not always easy.
44:27
And I'm saying all these beautiful things about Jamaica and Jamaica is a beautiful place.
44:31
But as anywhere else, there are going to be challenges that come in front of you.
44:36
And it's about how you work through it.
44:41
And I feel that it's a learning curve.
44:44
What was the most challenging thing?
44:46
The money.
44:47
Okay.
44:48
I never understood it because Barbados is like one US dollar to two Beijing dollars.
44:54
And when you're buying a bottle of water and it's like,
44:57
well, when I moved back then, it was $20 or $30.
45:01
I never understood how do you have $100 bill as being one of your least, you know?
45:08
I mean, I just want to smell like $50 and $100.
45:11
I never understood it because for us, $50 and $100 was one of our largest,
45:15
it's actual real money.
45:17
So that, I would say, completely shocked me.
45:21
But when I came here, I was like, I don't understand this money.
45:24
I remember walking around with a calculator, like trying to say,
45:27
like, even when I was buying supplies for university and going to the,
45:30
and they were like, $200,000.
45:33
And I was like, what?
45:35
$200,000 for what?
45:36
You know, because in Barbados, that's big money.
45:39
Right.
45:40
So I remember that being such a shock for me when I came here.
45:46
Some quick five questions.
45:47
Do you prefer tasty or juicy patty?
45:49
Tasty.
45:50
Any day.
45:51
Oh, okay.
45:52
Any day.
45:53
Corrigot or oxen.
45:54
No, you don't eat oxen.
45:55
I don't eat oxen.
45:56
Yeah.
45:57
The beef.
45:58
Yes.
45:59
I don't know.
46:00
I don't know the color.
46:01
Do you prefer jerk chicken or pan chicken?
46:05
Jerk chicken.
46:06
Casava or, um.
46:08
Casava.
46:09
Coconut water or cane juice?
46:10
Coconut water.
46:11
Do you drink?
46:12
No.
46:13
Okay.
46:14
I'm not.
46:15
Do you like sour?
46:16
I love sour.
46:17
So you have a version of sour in Barbados?
46:19
We do, but it's nothing like...
46:21
So you still use the flowers?
46:23
They try, but I don't think that it's made the same way as hair with the ginger.
46:27
Yeah.
46:28
Then it feels like you're chopping that ginger in that pot and boiling and boiling.
46:32
Like, sour is a thing.
46:34
Christmas.
46:35
I only love the sour.
46:37
So.
46:38
I look forward.
46:39
I have it without the white rum, though.
46:40
Sure.
46:41
Yeah.
46:42
If you're in life with a postcard, what would the picture look like?
46:44
A beautiful sunset, too.
46:48
From a bird's eye view.
46:50
Very cool.
46:52
Overlooking the ocean.
46:54
Thank you very much.
46:55
Thank you, April.