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Anger What Do You Need From Me with Bronwyn Schweigerdt · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapists podcast. My name is Gimick
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Speaker 1: person I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to
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Speaker 1: helping those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank
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Speaker 1: you to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting
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Speaker 1: this show five four, three, two and one. Our folks,
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Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have as
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Speaker 1: my guests today. Bron Wren Schweigert Bronwin Welcome, Thank you awesome.
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Speaker 1: Bronwyn is a licensed psychotherapist, podcaster, and anger expert dedicated
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Speaker 1: to addressing the root causes of mental and physical illness.
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Speaker 1: Drawing from her own personal experiences with depression, she explores
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Speaker 1: the vital importance of acknowledging and managing internal feelings. Specifically,
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Speaker 1: anger is a primary catalyst for personal growth and informed
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Speaker 1: decision making beyond individual healing. Bronwin provides practical strategies for
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Speaker 1: navigating anger within relationships and examining the unique responsibility therapists
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Speaker 1: have in managing their own emotional help whilsting others. All right, Bronman,
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Speaker 1: Obviously just a little bit about you before we get going.
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Speaker 1: Share with our listeners where you're from originally and where
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Speaker 1: you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Well, my first ten years were in Ohio and ever
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Speaker 2: since i've or mostly since, I've lived in California. So
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Speaker 2: I live in northern California.
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Speaker 1: Now okay, awesome, all right, Well let's start. How the
1:25
Speaker 1: heck did all this start for you?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so becoming a psycho therapist wasn't a career I
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Speaker 2: went looking for. I already had my career. I was
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Speaker 2: about thirty nine forty, and you know, life just kind
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Speaker 2: of took a turn for the worst at that time
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Speaker 2: and I fell into a very very very severe depressive episode.
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Speaker 2: Went looking for a good enough therapist to help me
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Speaker 2: like figure out what's going on inside me, Like why
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Speaker 2: am I becoming crazy? And I could find that. So
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Speaker 2: I remember sitting with multiple different therapists at multiple times,
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Speaker 2: and every time I thought to myself, you know, Bronwin,
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Speaker 2: you are barely functioning right now, but I still think
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Speaker 2: you would make a better therapist than this person in
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Speaker 2: front of you. So I ended up going back to
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Speaker 2: school and becoming getting another master's degree in you know,
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Speaker 2: counseling and becoming a licensed therapist because I wanted to
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Speaker 2: be the therapist that I needed for me and what
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Speaker 2: I see now in retrospect, with that depressive episode I
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Speaker 2: went through in a subsequent one that was even longer
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Speaker 2: and more pernicious. Were the common denominator was my own
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Speaker 2: disassociated or suppressed anger.
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Speaker 1: If I may, if I may, just hold on right there,
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Speaker 1: because you're saying a lot of juicy stuff here. What
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Speaker 1: were you doing? You said you had you had a job.
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Speaker 1: What were you doing?
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Speaker 2: My career at that time was in nutrition. I was
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Speaker 2: a nutritionist.
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Speaker 1: Okay, okay. And what happened such that what caused this
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Speaker 1: depressive episode? This initial one.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So this first one, my family and I just
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Speaker 2: relocated about an hour and a half away, and it
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Speaker 2: might have well been the other side of the moon
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Speaker 2: because I knew no one and I was very, very lonely.
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Speaker 2: And my husband, he had just gotten a different job.
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Speaker 2: This was during the two thousand and eight two thousand
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Speaker 2: and nine recessions, so we had to move. Our daughter
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Speaker 2: was very young at the time, so my husband went
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Speaker 2: off to school. I didn't have a job at that time.
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Speaker 2: My daughter, I put her in school, she was in kindergarten.
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Speaker 2: I was alone every day all day I had I
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Speaker 2: knew no one, I mean no one, and I was
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Speaker 2: so incredibly lonely, and one of the first nights after
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Speaker 2: we moved, I looked at my husband and I think
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Speaker 2: I had tears in my eyes. This is like seventeen
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Speaker 2: years ago now, but I really needed him to just
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Speaker 2: say something like, bron Wan, I see how much this
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Speaker 2: is hurting you, and it breaks my heart to see
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Speaker 2: you suffering like this. That's what I need it. That's empathy, right,
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Speaker 2: That's what I needed. And what I got was actually
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Speaker 2: a very hardened look in his eyes, a very i'm
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Speaker 2: not going to empathize for you look, and there was
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Speaker 2: no empathy. And you know we have since, you know,
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Speaker 2: discussed this, but you know, at that time he felt
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Speaker 2: like if he had empathized for me, that would make
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Speaker 2: him feel very guilty for having made us relocate in
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Speaker 2: the first place, and so he chose to withhold empathy
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Speaker 2: for me. But you know that I think triggered in
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Speaker 2: me what I experienced as a very young child from
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Speaker 2: my mother who withheld empathy from me. And so I
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Speaker 2: not only fell immediately into a severe depressive episode, but
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Speaker 2: I was vomiting involuntarily. It was horrible. While I was
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Speaker 2: driving a I would just have to vomit in my lap.
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Speaker 2: I couldn't stop walking down a street. I would vomit.
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Speaker 2: It was so humiliating. And I also couldn't stop eating.
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Speaker 2: I felt like there was a whole inside of me
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Speaker 2: day and night. I mean, I would get up at
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Speaker 2: three in the morning and just chow, and I gained
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Speaker 2: like probably thirty pounds in a couple months. It was
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Speaker 2: so horrible. So my body, I now see in retrospect,
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Speaker 2: was re experiencing an attachment wound when there was a
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Speaker 2: withholding of empathy from my current attachment partner, something I'd
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Speaker 2: never processed from my early childhood. But the anger comes
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Speaker 2: in here because if I had had at that time
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Speaker 2: the wherewithal just to look at Steve, my husband, and say,
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Speaker 2: you know what, Steve, you're withholding empathy from me, and
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Speaker 2: that's hurtful. Right now, I need you to put me first,
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Speaker 2: to prioritize my feelings over yours. I know it's going
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Speaker 2: to make you feel guilty, but to choose my comfort
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Speaker 2: over your discomfort. If I had that anger, because anger
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Speaker 2: is really what we need to have assertive speech, to
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Speaker 2: have boundaries, to confront people, even gently and kindly, but
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Speaker 2: to confront them. If I'd had that, I would have
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Speaker 2: saved myself all of that suffering. And the second depressive
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Speaker 2: episode was very similar in that if I had had
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Speaker 2: the wherewithal.
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Speaker 1: To say and when did that happen relative to the
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Speaker 1: first one, yeah, a couple.
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Speaker 2: Of years later. It was when I started out as
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Speaker 2: an intern getting my hours to become licensed, and the
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Speaker 2: supervisor where I was working, I told him, I'm not
6:36
Speaker 2: ready to see couples, you know, because really you should
6:40
Speaker 2: be very equipped and trained to see That's a very
6:43
Speaker 2: complicated thing to address. And he had a new intake
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Speaker 2: and they wanted to only pay the lowest fee, which
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Speaker 2: was me because I was just straying out. He didn't
6:51
Speaker 2: want to lose them. He was also the clinical director,
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Speaker 2: so that was problematic because he's also my supervisor, so
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Speaker 2: very blurry boundaries. But he's like, you're going to see him.
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Speaker 2: And if I had had the wherewithal then to say,
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Speaker 2: uh no, you know, but I needed that anger to
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Speaker 2: say no, and I didn't have it. I didn't have that.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm getting Okay, So what I hear you saying
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Speaker 1: is you're getting you're experiencing anger at a particular situation,
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Speaker 1: But there's also is there not kind of an assertiveness
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Speaker 1: of speaking up right or lack of assertiveness in those
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Speaker 1: particular situations too.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I see those as synonymous. So when we
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Speaker 2: feel the anger, you know, usually we feel it here
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Speaker 2: in our chest. What our relationship to that anger, to
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Speaker 2: have a healthy relationship with it is to say I
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Speaker 2: feel you, I feel you, write in my chest, anger,
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Speaker 2: What do you need from me right now?
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Speaker 1: Oh?
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Speaker 2: You need me to be assertive and say no. And
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Speaker 2: if that no is met with you know, well that's
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Speaker 2: a problem. Then you need me to be assertive and say, well,
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Speaker 2: then I'm going to look for a different place to
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Speaker 2: work because this isn't a good fit. So that's a boundary.
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Speaker 2: But I didn't have that. I know I felt that anger,
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Speaker 2: but I just associated from it because of my own immaturity.
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Speaker 2: And then I went on to see these couples and
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Speaker 2: I did so horribly and that just sent brought me
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Speaker 2: into a decent where I was betraying myself. And that's
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Speaker 2: really what gets us depressed, is when we betray ourselves.
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Speaker 1: All Right, So you decide like I can't find a therapist,
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Speaker 1: that's I'm trying to find the right word here, that's
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Speaker 1: a good fit to be to be kind. You couldn't
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Speaker 1: find one that was a good fit. You're like, to
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Speaker 1: hell with it, I'm going to become that therapist that
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Speaker 1: I need. So you go to school, you go back
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Speaker 1: to school. I'm guessing you're like, I'm going to do this,
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Speaker 1: And the thinking is, Bronwin, what what do you what's
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Speaker 1: the drive there?
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Speaker 2: I think, looking back, intuitively, what I needed in that
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Speaker 2: therapist I was searching for is someone who would be
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Speaker 2: a mirror to me to help me make sense of myself,
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Speaker 2: who really listened and had enough wisdom and understanding to
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Speaker 2: help me understand myself. And that would definitely entail someone
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Speaker 2: who could validate my anger that I'm dissociating from, you know,
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Speaker 2: at my husband, like someone who had said, you know, Brahman,
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Speaker 2: it seems like when he didn't empathize with you that
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Speaker 2: that was pretty infuriating. Actually, like that's not okay. If
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Speaker 2: I had had someone to be that mirror for me
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Speaker 2: and say I could go, oh that's not okay, Oh
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Speaker 2: my god, you're right, like, yeah, I need to be angry,
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Speaker 2: that would have spared me from depression. Because depression is
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Speaker 2: anger turn inward. So is anxiety. By the way, so
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Speaker 2: are all mental illnesses in my book is when we
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Speaker 2: dissociate from our anger, we get sick meant and physically
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Speaker 2: somatically as well.
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Speaker 1: So what you're describing pretty much sounds like therapy one
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Speaker 1: on one right for the therapists to become the membor.
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Speaker 1: But you didn't get that. What were you getting? And
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Speaker 1: this is important for all the therapists listening? What were
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Speaker 1: you getting instead of that?
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Speaker 2: So I went to multiple Oh goodness, So the first
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Speaker 2: one she just kind of listened and not much more,
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Speaker 2: maybe a little bit like, you know, maybe a little oh,
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Speaker 2: have you thought about going outside? Have you thought about
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Speaker 2: hard exercise? You know, that kind of stuff, but not
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Speaker 2: really helping me understand myself, not validating my anger, not
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Speaker 2: helping me connect to my anger in a healthy way.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, all right. So you go through school and
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Speaker 1: when and how did you learn or discover that anger
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Speaker 1: was at the crux of what was going on?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't really in school. That was probably after
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Speaker 2: my second depressed episode, and and it was when I
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Speaker 2: finally started coming back to life and I started making
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Speaker 2: the association, the connection connecting these dots that my clients'
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Speaker 2: anxiety attacks, their panic attacks, their manic episodes, their depression,
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Speaker 2: their OCD all the common denominator was their own dissociated anger,
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Speaker 2: just like my depressive episode. That is what I started
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Speaker 2: seeing very clearly. And the minute they started, I you know,
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Speaker 2: my goal was to help them connect with their anger,
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Speaker 2: to know it's valid, to channel it out of their
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Speaker 2: bodies into assertiveness, boundaries, accountability and protecting themselves and that
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Speaker 2: made them healthy. That's when their symptoms you know, remediated
11:55
Speaker 2: and that so that was really my own experience and
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Speaker 2: seeing it live out in my clients was what helped
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Speaker 2: me see all this.
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Speaker 1: Can you give us a specific example of what that
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Speaker 1: might have looked like with a particular client you worked with?
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Speaker 2: Yes, So I have one client in particular. She's given
12:14
Speaker 2: me permission because I do I speak a lot to
12:17
Speaker 2: be my example. So I'll call her Katie. So Katie
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Speaker 2: had been going to therapy, you know, more group therapy
12:27
Speaker 2: kind of stuff, but for maybe a decade before she
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Speaker 2: came to me, and when she started telling me and
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Speaker 2: nothing had helped her. But when she started telling me
12:37
Speaker 2: how sick she was, and you know, she had had psychosis,
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Speaker 2: she had had for those ten years. She'd had a
12:43
Speaker 2: lot of hallucinations, never delusions, but hallucinations. And I'm listening
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Speaker 2: to her, I'm listening to her describe her hallucinations, and
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Speaker 2: I'm saying, those sound like, really, you know, great depictions
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Speaker 2: of your mom. What you saw, like the witch that
13:00
Speaker 2: you saw floating out your outside your window. That seems
13:04
Speaker 2: like it's describing your mother, and your brain's telling you, like,
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Speaker 2: get away from your mother. And she's like, oh my god,
13:13
Speaker 2: I think you might be right. So we've been together
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Speaker 2: now three years. She's still with me, and the minute
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Speaker 2: she was able to have those boundaries with her mother,
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Speaker 2: she completely cut off her relationship with her mother. All
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Speaker 2: her hallucinations stopped immediately, her mania stopped, her depressive episodes
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Speaker 2: started again, remediating. I mean, she is so so healthy now,
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Speaker 2: she's off all her meds, and she was oh so
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Speaker 2: many meds. So I am just yeah, So she's a
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Speaker 2: great example.
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Speaker 1: All right, So this I'm just going back to that
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Speaker 1: situation with you and your husband because I think it's
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Speaker 1: such a I mean, it's just such almost a classic
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Speaker 1: example of how oftentimes we interact with people. Right. I
14:06
Speaker 1: thought it was very interesting that you said, you know,
14:08
Speaker 1: he didn't want to kind of acknowledge your anger because
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Speaker 1: then it would reflect on him and he didn't want
14:13
Speaker 1: to have to deal with that as well. But you're there,
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Speaker 1: you're his partner. Yeah, there's something just very I don't know,
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Speaker 1: raw and emotional and human about that that's not always
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Speaker 1: easy to do.
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Speaker 2: I think this is kind of the fundamental imprint or
14:38
Speaker 2: pattern that we would see in all human relationships. And
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Speaker 2: I also think the mental illness is a result of
14:45
Speaker 2: our relationships, things like this, things that seem so small
14:49
Speaker 2: in the moment. So he was choosing his comfort over mind.
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Speaker 2: I desperately needed him to just go browm and it
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Speaker 2: breaks my heart to see how lonely you are right now.
15:00
Speaker 2: But he chose his comfort. He wanted to stay in
15:02
Speaker 2: denial because in his mind, he was causing me this
15:06
Speaker 2: loneliness because he had the job that caused us to relocate.
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Speaker 2: And you know, so denial really it's denial of reality.
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Speaker 2: And when we choose that, it will be at someone
15:17
Speaker 2: else's expense and it will hurt them.
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Speaker 1: The other thing I think that comes up for me is,
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Speaker 1: you know, everyone is there, as you well know, they're
15:29
Speaker 1: their own organism and forever. For whatever reason, he was
15:34
Speaker 1: not able to do that, because that, in turn would
15:38
Speaker 1: take a certain ownership right for him to then deal
15:43
Speaker 1: be able to deal with everything that was going to
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Speaker 1: come back from acknowledging what was going on for you.
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Speaker 1: So all right, let's just kind of switch gears a
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Speaker 1: little here. How did you begin to work through these
15:57
Speaker 1: depressive episodes? What's started helping you?
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Speaker 2: If things did, yeah, I will say that what really
16:07
Speaker 2: helped me. The second depressive episode was much more pernicious,
16:11
Speaker 2: much more complex. There were a lot of people who
16:15
Speaker 2: contributed to it. And I'm not gonna say I was
16:19
Speaker 2: immune from that because I could have said no, I
16:21
Speaker 2: could have said, hey, I'm going to find another supervisor,
16:24
Speaker 2: another place to work, and I didn't, so you know,
16:27
Speaker 2: I definitely contributed to that as well. But really it
16:30
Speaker 2: was about perspective shift. It really it was about me
16:33
Speaker 2: taking time to reflect and kind of think it through.
16:38
Speaker 2: Because when my supervisor said you're going to see the
16:42
Speaker 2: client or you're going to see this couple, you know,
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Speaker 2: I betrayed myself. But to look back and go, oh,
16:49
Speaker 2: he was doing that because he didn't want to say
16:51
Speaker 2: no to these incoming clients. He was the clinic director.
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Speaker 2: He wanted numbers I'm going to feel some angry about
16:58
Speaker 2: that because that's not okay. He was my super and
17:00
Speaker 2: that was a betrayal of his job. So really kind
17:03
Speaker 2: of reflecting back and really putting all the blame where
17:07
Speaker 2: it belonged. I'm owning some of that too. It was
17:10
Speaker 2: not that I'm just an innocent victim. I was just naive, really.
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Speaker 2: But yeah, so seeing all that, feeling that anger one
17:19
Speaker 2: person that was very much a contributor to my depression
17:22
Speaker 2: at that time. She was a different supervisor at a
17:25
Speaker 2: different place that I worked, a different internship site, but
17:29
Speaker 2: she had been my friend prior to that, and she
17:33
Speaker 2: as a supervisor was so belittling. I mean, I look
17:36
Speaker 2: back and I actually wrote her an accountability letter. So
17:41
Speaker 2: I encourage my clients write a fantasy letter, say everything
17:46
Speaker 2: you want to say, raw and unfiltered, and then if
17:50
Speaker 2: you need to edit it, edit it, and then you
17:52
Speaker 2: might want to consider pressing send and sending an email.
17:56
Speaker 2: And I did that with her, and I said, hey, Kristen,
17:58
Speaker 2: I just need you to know you're a bully. And
18:01
Speaker 2: I'm documented specific things she did that made her a bully,
18:05
Speaker 2: and I said, at the end, I'm not interested in
18:07
Speaker 2: a dialogue on this. If you respond, it will go unread.
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Speaker 2: This is a one way piece of communication. I just
18:15
Speaker 2: needed to set the record straight, and doing that release
18:19
Speaker 2: so much suppressed anger from my body. It allowed me
18:24
Speaker 2: to get back my dignity. I didn't disparage her. I
18:28
Speaker 2: just said the truth. I just set the record straight.
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Speaker 1: So, yeah, was among my guess is you held all
18:36
Speaker 1: this inside forever?
18:39
Speaker 2: Yeah?
18:39
Speaker 1: I did, so growing up bottled up anger was bottled
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Speaker 1: up for you? Or you weren't. You weren't able to
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Speaker 1: assert yourself to a certain degree? Is that is that
18:52
Speaker 1: true or what?
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Speaker 2: Not? So much? You know, I that's such a great question, guy,
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Speaker 2: I would say for me, the religious background I came
19:02
Speaker 2: from kind of taught me to not be angry and
19:07
Speaker 2: you know, not be an agitator or what have you.
19:11
Speaker 2: And you know, again, I own I take ownership of
19:14
Speaker 2: that too because I adhered to that, I believed it,
19:17
Speaker 2: and now I see it was just so much bs.
19:20
Speaker 2: So yeah, that was very much. I think for me
19:23
Speaker 2: that taught me to be a nice person. And now
19:25
Speaker 2: I talk about do you want to be a nice
19:27
Speaker 2: person or a good person? Because those are two distinct things.
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Speaker 1: All right, So let me just remind me. When I'm
19:36
Speaker 1: speaking with bron Win Schweigert, we're talking about anger, and
19:42
Speaker 1: how would you phrase it. We're talking about the importance
19:46
Speaker 1: of what owning our anger, releasing our anger, what I.
19:51
Speaker 2: Would say, connecting to our anger, and more importantly, developing
19:55
Speaker 2: a healthy relationship to anger, because we all have anger.
20:00
Speaker 2: You know, I hate the phrase when people say, oh,
20:03
Speaker 2: she's not an angry person. I'm like, well, is she
20:05
Speaker 2: a breathing person? We all have anger, right, is.
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Speaker 1: Part of living.
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Speaker 2: We get angry human right, we shouldn't see that as
20:15
Speaker 2: a negative. Really, what we need to do is cultivate
20:18
Speaker 2: a healthy relationship with our anger. And what makes it unhealthy,
20:24
Speaker 2: like you kind of insinuated, guy, is our childhood and
20:28
Speaker 2: the imprince the templates that were formed during our early
20:32
Speaker 2: childhood about anger. And I would say a lot of
20:36
Speaker 2: that is formed probably in what we would call the
20:39
Speaker 2: terrible twos, when we first start as a little child,
20:42
Speaker 2: to show anger, to have boundaries, to be assertive, to
20:46
Speaker 2: differentiate from our parents. And if we have parents who
20:49
Speaker 2: aren't informed about how important that phase is, which most
20:53
Speaker 2: parents are not informed, they see that as something to
20:57
Speaker 2: be corrected, so they'll shame the child. Maybe they'll do
21:02
Speaker 2: silent treatment or time out, and the child's like, oh,
21:05
Speaker 2: I can't afford to be angry because that's going to
21:08
Speaker 2: get me abandoned. And so that template is formed in
21:12
Speaker 2: our brain and that will stay there and very much
21:16
Speaker 2: influence our behavior, our relationship with our anger, for a
21:20
Speaker 2: lifetime unless we kind of wake up and start to
21:25
Speaker 2: unlearn that that harmful template.
21:28
Speaker 1: How do you well, oftentimes we hear of when people
21:35
Speaker 1: talk about kids having behavioral issues, it's oftentimes people say, well,
21:44
Speaker 1: there's anger beneath that, right, how do you said? Anger
21:50
Speaker 1: maybe at the root of a lot of mental illness.
21:54
Speaker 1: How are you seeing Where are you seeing anger showing
21:57
Speaker 1: up in people's lives? How is it showing up kind
22:00
Speaker 1: of indirectly in a sense.
22:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, one answer might be that a need
22:05
Speaker 2: is going unmet. So when you say with children, yeah,
22:09
Speaker 2: a needs not being met for attachment stuff, it's really
22:13
Speaker 2: I don't feel seen. I don't feel like I matter,
22:17
Speaker 2: you know that kind of thing. Children need to feel
22:20
Speaker 2: like they matter, They need to feel seen. They need
22:22
Speaker 2: to be heard. You know, they being heard is how
22:26
Speaker 2: we feel seen, So they need to be listened to.
22:28
Speaker 2: They need to be attuned to and if they're not
22:31
Speaker 2: getting that, or if they're seeing the parent giving more
22:35
Speaker 2: attunement to a sibling than they are, that kind of thing. Yeah,
22:39
Speaker 2: there's going to be a lot of anger. Of course.
22:41
Speaker 1: You mentioned also that anger had a relationship with anxiety too.
22:47
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that.
22:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, so most of my clients have quite a bit
22:53
Speaker 2: of anxiety. And those are you know, some of the
22:57
Speaker 2: most lovely people in the world, but they have been
22:59
Speaker 2: very conditioned to believe their anger is shameful, that it
23:04
Speaker 2: will get them abandoned, and so they very much learn to,
23:08
Speaker 2: you know, quash their anger. And you know that comes
23:13
Speaker 2: just from believing or being kind of taught I'm responsible
23:18
Speaker 2: for other people's feelings. And when we believe that, when
23:22
Speaker 2: we are conditioned to believe that implicitly, we cannot simultaneously
23:27
Speaker 2: be responsible for our feelings. It is really an either or.
23:32
Speaker 2: And so you know, one of the things I help
23:34
Speaker 2: them do is I work with their inner child and
23:37
Speaker 2: help them let their inner child know, you know what,
23:41
Speaker 2: we are only responsible for our feelings. We are responsible
23:46
Speaker 2: to other people, but never for other people. Once we
23:50
Speaker 2: live within those healthy universal parameters, there's going to be
23:56
Speaker 2: order brought back to our lives.
24:00
Speaker 1: One of the things that I mentioned in your bio
24:04
Speaker 1: that I think is pretty interesting is you said that
24:08
Speaker 1: therapists have responsibility in managing their own emotional health while
24:12
Speaker 1: supporting others. That seems it seems like that's so important,
24:21
Speaker 1: very important for you. For you, why, oh yeah.
24:26
Speaker 2: Well that's really what I couldn't find. I couldn't find
24:29
Speaker 2: a therapist who had a healthy relationship with her own anger.
24:34
Speaker 2: And therefore, as therapists, we are not able to validate
24:38
Speaker 2: our client's anger. We're not able to help them heal
24:42
Speaker 2: their relationship with their anger because we haven't done that
24:45
Speaker 2: for ourselves.
24:48
Speaker 1: All right, So let's talk about your own punk podcast,
24:52
Speaker 1: Angry at the Right Things. How did this come about
24:55
Speaker 1: for you?
24:56
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, it was kind of like a weird coincidence
25:00
Speaker 2: where someone just told me literally like three minutes before
25:05
Speaker 2: that I should have a podcast, and I was like,
25:07
Speaker 2: that would be kind of fun. And then I checked
25:10
Speaker 2: my email, and my email I got we were donors
25:15
Speaker 2: to this charity, and the charity's like, oh, we're training
25:18
Speaker 2: up donors to have podcasts, you know, as a fundraising
25:22
Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, yeah, that just seemed like too
25:25
Speaker 2: much to be a coincidence. So I just started doing
25:28
Speaker 2: it about three years ago. But my favorite guests where
25:33
Speaker 2: I've guested on other podcasts have been like yours, where
25:36
Speaker 2: we're talking just where the person that the host it's
25:39
Speaker 2: all about psychology or therapy because we can have the
25:42
Speaker 2: best conversations. There's so much more in depth. And over time,
25:45
Speaker 2: I just started doing trainings like continuing education for therapists,
25:51
Speaker 2: and then now I have I founded the Center for
25:54
Speaker 2: Anger and Integration, so I do ce continuing education trainings
25:59
Speaker 2: on anger on integration for other therapists.
26:02
Speaker 1: Now wow, how cool is that? So give us a
26:08
Speaker 1: little more about that. What is that training?
26:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have two one hour trainings now of
26:15
Speaker 2: my own. I have a couple others through other training
26:18
Speaker 2: platforms on there as well. So anger it's really psychoed
26:23
Speaker 2: about how dissociate anger causes somatic illness like headaches, gut disorders,
26:30
Speaker 2: autoimmune disorders, like that's what a lot of research is
26:34
Speaker 2: showing from what we call alexothymia. So a lot of
26:37
Speaker 2: psychoad But then I actually lead the therapist in how
26:42
Speaker 2: to do this modality I developed called an integration exercise
26:47
Speaker 2: where we lead the client to do an imaginary exercise
26:53
Speaker 2: where they are connecting with their inner child and integrating
26:57
Speaker 2: with them.
26:59
Speaker 1: Now, is it always.
27:03
Speaker 2: What was that?
27:04
Speaker 1: Is it always inner child? Do we always have to
27:07
Speaker 1: go back to that?
27:08
Speaker 2: We all do?
27:09
Speaker 1: We do well?
27:10
Speaker 2: I mean there's plenty. Sometimes we're integrating with ourselves from
27:14
Speaker 2: six months ago, but there's always things in the past
27:17
Speaker 2: that we kind of need to heal and dislodge shame
27:22
Speaker 2: from things that we have experienced.
27:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, Bronwin. How do people learn
27:29
Speaker 1: more about you what you're doing these trainings and your podcast?
27:35
Speaker 2: Sure so, yeah, So my website is integrateannger dot com
27:40
Speaker 2: all one word, and the trainings are on there. My
27:43
Speaker 2: podcast is on there too, so lots of stuff about
27:46
Speaker 2: me and yeah, I guess that's kind of it. I'm
27:48
Speaker 2: on social media as well. I have a YouTube channel
27:51
Speaker 2: as well.
27:52
Speaker 1: Awesome, Okay, we'll have all that link up here at
27:54
Speaker 1: the show notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. Bronwin,
27:58
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Appreciate your just showing up and
28:01
Speaker 1: being open and honest about what's going on with you.
28:03
Speaker 1: Appreciate it.
28:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me.
28:05
Speaker 1: Guys, all right, take care, okay, you too.