Latest / The Light / Joni Table Talk Podcast (Video) - Carrying the Legacy | Kellie & Courtney Copeland

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Joni Table Talk Podcast (Video) - Carrying the Legacy | Kellie & Courtney Copeland · The Light

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♪♪♪♪♪
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Joni Lamb: Hello, and welcome
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to "Joni Table Talk," the show where we bring
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you real conversations that matter.
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I'm your host, Joni Lamb.
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Join us as we explore unforgettable testimonies,
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tackle hard-hitting topics, and uncover the truth
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that transformed lives with authenticity,
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biblical wisdom, and the heart
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for transformation.
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So, pull up a chair, join us around the table,
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and let's dive right in.
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Rachel Lamb Brown: What does it mean it leave a legacy?
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Is it something you inherit, something you choose, or both?
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Today's guests grew up in one of the most
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recognized ministry families in the world.
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But their journey hasn't always been easy.
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They'll share the defining moments
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that tested everything they believed
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and why what you build today can impact generations to come.
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Welcome to "Friends from the Table."
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I'm your host Rachel Lamb Brown, and I'm here
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with my co-host, Cindy Johnston, welcome.
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Cindy Johnston: Hello, thank you.
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I'm so honored to be here today.
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Rachel: Excited about the show today.
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And we're so excited to welcome Kelly Copeland
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and her niece, Courtney Copeland.
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Kelly Copeland: Thank you so much for having us.
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Courtney Copeland: We're so glad to be here.
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Rachel: So, Kelly, you are
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the daughter of incredible ministry giants, Kenneth
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and Gloria Copeland, who literally spread the gospel
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around the world, impacted millions.
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When you think about your parents,
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what do you think has given them
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the lasting key to longevity?
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Kelly: I really believe part of that
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and maybe the major part of it is
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the decisions they made, how they would start
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is still how they are.
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Like when they said our core values,
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you know, we're we're not gonna ask
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for a place to preach.
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In other words, God is our source.
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We're not gonna borrow money.
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God is our source.
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All of the things like that, and they said,
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"If it's in the Word, that's how we're
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gonna conform our life."
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In other words, God is our source,
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really boils down to everything they've ever done,
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he was it.
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So, if he asked them to do something impossible,
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they could go, "Okay, that might feel
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a little scary, but you just say okay,
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and you put-- you start putting
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in your mouth."
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But many times he would ask them
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to do something impossible and it would seem possible.
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And they would be, "We can do that."
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And that spirit of faith would come on them.
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So, I think when you make a decision
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and it's, I'm conforming my life
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to God's words, my dad's always said,
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"You never have to change."
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So, in the changing times, you can change methods,
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but you don't have to change your core,
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who you are, how you live with God.
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How you live with God is how you live out here.
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There's really not an accusation, really,
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that people can bring against you,
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even though none of us are perfect.
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Rachel: Yeah, it's you're unshaken.
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When you live a life of faith, it's like,
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you're unshaken because your life is rooted
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in the Word of God, and the Word of God
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doesn't change, and the promises of God
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don't change for your life.
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And that's something that you can hold on to.
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Kelly: He's so-- he's such the foundation
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that even if you fall, you're like, where'd you fall?
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Jesus. He's the foundation.
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I mean, if that's your life,
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then you're not ever afraid of failure, really,
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to fail, you fail sometimes.
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That's not the end.
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Courtney: I think something too that made them--
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because you asked like, what do you think like,
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you know, made this happen.
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I've heard my grandfather say so many times,
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"I don't have any more faith in you maybe,
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but I might be more obedient."
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And I think their obedience to what God was
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telling them to do in moments
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where it made absolutely no sense,
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resources weren't there, just take the first step,
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take the first step.
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And they were so obedient.
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They're known as faith people,
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but their obedience is astonishing, yeah.
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Rachel: You grew up in this family
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and tell us a little bit about your story, Courtney.
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Courtney: Well, we joke about all the time.
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I feel like I came out of the womb praying
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in tongues.
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I just thought everyone prayed in tongues.
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I thought everyone knew what, you know,
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miracles, lame people walking
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and blind eyes opening.
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I thought that was normal.
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And then in middle school age, you know,
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I realized, "Oh, people think we're crazy
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for believing in some of these things."
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And I was always really confident
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in my authority as a believer.
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You know, I was going through something recently
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and my mom looked at me and she was like,
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"The little girl that was telling the storm
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to leave the sky is still in you."
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And it's like that was just so instilled in me,
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the authority that we walk in as true children of God
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was really consistent in my life.
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Where I kind of fell into just harder times
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was my understanding of God's character.
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There was things going on in my life,
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I was like, "God, how could you let this happen?
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I don't-- if you're so good, you know, why are
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these things happening or why is this so hard?"
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And I had a really amazing experience in Africa.
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I felt like I was kind of like a Jonah
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in the whale moment, where this pastor in Africa,
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you know, called me out of the group
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and just really prophesied over my life,
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spoke into my life.
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I was like, "Man, if I can't even escape you
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out here, you know, maybe there really
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is something that you're calling me
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to outside of what my grandparents' calling
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looks like."
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Because to be honest, I don't want what they have.
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The responsibility, and you know watching
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your parents, the responsibility
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that it takes to live a life and of integrity
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that they live to be on a stage and be
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responsible every day--
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Rachel: Well, I also think just the pressure--
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Courtney: Of course.
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Rachel: And the commentary from all the people,
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all the things, it's a lot.
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And the weight of it, and to steward it well
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can be difficult at times.
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Courtney: And I didn't want any part of it.
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So, it really took the Lord showing me
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that my walk with him and my calling
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even into ministry, which is definitely more
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on the business side.
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I am in the background, behind the camera
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95% of the time unless it's a day like today.
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But I'm usually in the back, and God gave me a gift
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to do that.
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And I love my job working at the ministry now,
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and I love getting what I'm doing,
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and my life looks so different from
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my grandparents, but we need both.
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And so, I think, a lot of people
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have a misconception that if their legacy
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looks one way, that the way they
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fulfill their part of the legacy has
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to look the same, and that's not really the case.
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And so, it takes all of us, you know, coming--
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people ask all the time, who's the successor
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of Kenneth Copeland, who's it gonna be?
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And when my dad answers, my dad said, "It's all of us."
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Kelly: It's even our partners.
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Our partners are as much successors.
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I mean, I look at Creflo and-- Dollar, and Creflo
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is a successful successor.
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But everybody leading their lives at work,
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in their business, in their churches,
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they are a successor, and I think dad
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always saw it that way.
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Courtney: Yeah, and that's how we see it.
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It takes, you know, we have so many
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family coming back to work at the ministry.
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It's gonna take our whole family,
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but like you said, it's gonna take
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our partners, it's gonna take our staff.
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Like, there is a legacy you can leave.
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It doesn't have to be a copy and paste though.
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Rachel: I love that.
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And for a while you were at KCM for like five years,
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like leading the missions and doing all-- you know,
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incredible work.
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But then you moved away for a season to L.A.,
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tell us a little bit about that little detour that you took.
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Courtney: I needed to touch some grass
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and get out of the bubble, get out of the KCM bubble.
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I needed to like, I just needed
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to understand why do people even need faith?
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I didn't know I needed this, but now looking back,
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I can understand what my, you know,
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trajectory was.
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And I went out to L.A.
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with no money, and I started applying for jobs.
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Like, I was applying to be a waitress.
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I like, truly was like, how do I survive out here?
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I knew my skill set was in marketing.
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I got my first big girl job.
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And the Lord just moved me so strategically
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through different businesses and places to the point
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where I ended up owning my own
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podcast studio in L.A.
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And what the Lord was doing with me in Los Angeles
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is exactly what I'm doing now here back at KCM just
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on a bigger scale.
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And he was able to trust me with those seasons
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and those times that now I'm back,
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you know, doing all of the media,
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and marketing, and all the things at KCM.
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But I needed the-- I don't think the Lord
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wanted me to struggle the way that I struggled
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in L.A., but I think looking back,
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now I can see God's faithfulness through my own scenarios
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versus believing it from all the stories
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that I had heard from the people before me.
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And so, I was able to depend on God
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and cry out to God and needed God.
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So, now that I'm back doing my job,
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it's like, "Oh, I get it because I believe
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and I've lived this."
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Rachel: What do you think is the biggest lesson
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that he taught you in that season?
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Courtney: Consistency.
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I think I've-- I was riding
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the fumes of my grandparents' anointing for so long
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that when I got out there and I wasn't grounded
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in community with family, it was like what I
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could kind of get away with through my calling
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and through my family legacy as far as just like,
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"Oh I do well under pressure," AKA,
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I don't prepare for anything, you know?
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Like, I-- the Lord put me in moments where I really
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had to do the work myself.
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Like, I had to spend my own time with the Lord.
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I had to write my own devotional time versus
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just listening to "The Believer's
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Voice of Victory" broadcast every day
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just playing in the living room.
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You know, like, it really forced me to step
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into my own consistency as my own person.
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Cindy: And I think many of us, I grew up
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in a preacher's home as well.
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And when that's all that you see
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and all that you know, there comes that point
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where you have to know it for yourself,
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and that's exactly what y'all have all done
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and I applaud you for that.
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Kelly, carrying on this legacy, what does
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that look like for you at this time?
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Kelly: You know, there's so many ways you
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could define legacy.
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And, for me, it's very tempting, I think,
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in ministry families to feel like you
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were handed something.
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And I don't guess anybody gets
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out of being a preacher's kid without, you know,
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making a-- taking advantage of that
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at some point or other.
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You know, like, "Don't you know who I am, or?"
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That never-- I tried to teach my kids not to do
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that, but Max would come in and go, "Don't you know
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who I am?"
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You know, he only did it with-- my son Max,
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he did it a couple of times.
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But he got in trouble for it, and I said,
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"Max, don't you know that because papa is papa,
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he's Kenneth Copeland, he has to serve more.
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And I think that when I was teaching my kids,
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it really landed home in me,
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that you could look at inherited-- a legacy
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as an inheritance you inherit, or you could look at it
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as I am the inheritance to Kenneth and Gloria Copeland,
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that they poured into me, they should be able
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to get something out of it in life.
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You know, that they spent time
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raising me, they spent time teaching
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me the Word, and teaching me how to walk
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and live by faith, teaching me how to get
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through hard times, you know, teaching me how
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to find my answers in the Word,
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and how to put it in my mouth
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when I didn't want to.
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And how to, you know, not be led by emotions.
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I had to learn how to live with my emotions
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in my trouble with the Lord.
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I mean, not trouble with-- I guess that was said right.
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In my trouble walking with the Lord,
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I learned how to live with my emotions
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supplying what they're supposed to.
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Information, hey, there's something going
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on down in there, and you need to talk
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to me about it.
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That's the life I got with Jesus on my own,
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and I'm passing that and the faith down
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to my daughter, Emily, who's still at home, still 15.
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She gets the benefit of all my lessons
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learned in front of her, you know,
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these last few years.
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But I feel like, it's more than--
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if I see all that coming out of her, this is
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what blesses my heart, and I think it's what
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blesses my parents when-- and when they see
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Courtney doing what she's doing, or me, or John,
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or Terry, or any of the grandkids.
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When I see Emily share with somebody what
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she's learned walking in my household,
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I feel like this is the heart of the Lord,
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when we are his inheritance.
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His inheritance is in the saints.
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And when we lead our life like that, it's less
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about ourselves and more about a walk
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with him and taking-- not turning our back.
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If I could just say a word right now
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to the next generation.
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You know, don't throw away what your parents--
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I know we didn't do it right,
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and one day you're gonna have kids
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and they're gonna tell you that you did not do it right.
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So, it's time to sow a good seed,
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be gracious to your parents, but also ask the Lord what
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did they give me?
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You know there's a lot of people
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that they did not have a good parenting situation.
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They didn't have a good dad, didn't have a good mom.
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But you did always have the Lord.
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Even if you didn't know him, he was walking with you.
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And he's been there the whole time,
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and he's there now to help.
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It's really about what's coming out of us.
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And that the opportunity to walk in the legacy
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and as an inheritance is never over
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until the day you die.
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You know, you have a chance on your deathbed to turn
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it around.
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Rachel: That's so good.
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And it's so cool to see, you know, the--
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just the generations like, the kids, and the grandkids
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and, you know, the nieces, and the nephews,
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and the uncles and the aunts,
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and everybody, it's really such
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a beautiful legacy of faith that started with your dad.
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I'm curious, Kelly, how do you honor the past,
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but still embrace the future and new things?
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Honor the old, but embrace the new?
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Kelly: I think I learned a little
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bit of a lesson in that lately
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in the last ten years, because there were things in me.
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Like, when I got healed in my emotions,
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I started talking about freedom.
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I started talking about your soul.
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I had to go find that.
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We didn't really talk about the soul.
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So, I had to go find that with the Lord,
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and then he brought me other ministries
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to listen to that I'd never experienced.
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And so, when I learned that though, it was,
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like, I felt like when I would share it,
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people would say, "Wait," and they would,
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"Aren't you word of faith?
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What happened to you?
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You're not-- why are you talking
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about your emotions?"
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Like, I'm causing a panic to people
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because all of a sudden I'm talking emotions
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and we don't do emotions, you know?
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Or you just feel like to walk into your own
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place where God's calling you, I didn't-- I couldn't
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let go of who-- I'm-- I wanted to go,
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"I am always a word of faith girl.
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I'm always gonna be a faith girl,
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but God showed me some things that were in my way.
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And that doesn't make anything untrue.
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It just adds."
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So, what I had to realize then,
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my parents were pioneers, but I didn't look at myself
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as a pioneer.
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I look at myself as coming up under their ministry
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and speaking what they spoke and needing
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to fit into the mold.
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Nobody told me that, my dad would
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have said, "What are you talking about?
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Don't fit into my mold."
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He'd be like, "Go do your thing."
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And I always wanted him to go send me out, and he didn't.
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But if I ever said, "I feel like I'm called
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to do this, I'm gonna start a show,
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I'm starting a show."
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And he'd be so supportive.
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He wasn't trying to tell me what my calling was.
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And I love that about him and mom.
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But that place of realizing I can become,
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I can be in legacy and an inheritance
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to my parents, to the Lord,
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and I can also be a pioneer.
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Because God's always calling us.
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I don't think he ever calls anyone
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to be a copy of the person before them.
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Cindy: And it looks different in each one of us.
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Kelly: There's something you're gonna have
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to take.
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Or they might as well just listen to Kenneth
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and Gloria Copeland and not listen to me.
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Because, you know, you don't-- you can
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find them everywhere.
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So, there's something that has to come out of you,
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all of us, that is unique to how God called us.
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Rachel: Yeah, and I think it's
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so important, like, just knowing your identity
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and having a firm identity in who you are in the Lord
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and knowing that you might not be like what was
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in the past.
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You're gonna be something new, and the message doesn't change.
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We talked about that, but maybe the method will.
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And it's like we can build on the great foundation,
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but like you said, we can still pioneer new things.
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We can learn new things.
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We can grow, and Courtney, I know that's
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so much of your heart.
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This girl's like a little wrecking ball.
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She goes and she's like, "We're making
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everything new, we're just revolutionizing everything."
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How do you feel like you're passing the baton
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to the next generation?
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Courtney: Well, it's interesting because, you know,
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I'm coming back to KCM as a 33-year-old,
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and there's employees that have worked
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there longer than I've been alive.
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You know, there's employees that have worked there 38,
16:31
40 years.
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And there's been-- it's not been easy
16:36
to see change for a lot of people.
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It's my grandfather's excited.
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He said, "If I don't change, I'm just gonna become a ditch
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in someone's way to the Word."
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And it's like, if he can be--
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if he can feel that way, then we need to be open-minded.
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And so, the analogy I keep using is like,
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when you walk into the department store
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and you see Estée Lauder and its pretty light blue,
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you know, decor across the aisle
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from Mac Cosmetics with its black, you know,
17:00
strobe lights and music, but you look
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at the bottom of the bottle, they're both owned by L'Oreal.
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And it's like they're this-- they're made
17:07
in the same factory, using the same key ingredients.
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And that's what I'm trying to do at the ministry,
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is take my grandparents' teaching, not water it down,
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not make it any less true, not make it easy to digest
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so we don't hurt people's feelings,
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but we're taking it and we're changing the method
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in which we put it out.
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And we're not alienating the people and the message
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and the way that it's been going out.
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We're doing both at the same time.
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And so, I don't believe that legacy or a new,
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you know, generation of people
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looks like-- last time I was
17:40
at the studio eight years ago, the studio
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did not look like this, you know?
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But it's like, we have to never change the message,
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but we do have to change the method sometimes.
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So, my grandfather is so open to that.
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He's so excited about, like, when you walk
17:53
into the production this year at Southwest,
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like, we have more LED screens and lights
17:57
and anything that we've ever had before, but he is excited
18:01
about it.
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And it takes both sides from-- you know,
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I'm 33, it takes me honoring above
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and me honoring below in age,
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but it takes my grandfather being willing
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to change, and he is.
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Rachel: I really believe that if we're gonna
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have another great move of God, we have
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to reach people where they're at.
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We might have to change how we do things a little bit and so.
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Kelly: We will. Rachel: And we will.
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Kelly: We do have to change.
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We should all just normalize that
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and just say that's it's-- we're also
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in the time of change where everything is changing.
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He's changed when our trajectory has changed
18:35
towards where the whole Bible is written about.
18:39
And that would require change, to have a changed church,
18:42
without spot or wrinkle, transformed.
18:44
That's all words of change.
18:46
So, I mean, we just need to say it.
18:48
Rachel: That's so hard for me though.
18:49
Can I be real?
18:51
Oh, my goodness, I hate change--
18:52
Kelly: Be real.
18:53
Rachel: It is so hard.
18:55
That's something I'm still working on with the Lord.
18:56
Courtney: It's really important though
18:57
that in people's desire to change--
18:59
because in living in Los Angeles
19:01
and I was trying to find a church,
19:02
and I finally found one, and I love my church,
19:05
I love my pastor.
19:06
But I watched people come and go from the church.
19:09
And I noticed my observation was that if truth
19:13
isn't fully being spoken from the platform,
19:15
it doesn't matter how cool the room is,
19:18
how good your coffee is, how cool your merch is,
19:21
it doesn't matter if the fruit of your life
19:24
isn't changing because the truth
19:25
isn't available to set people free.
19:28
It doesn't matter what you're cosmetically changing.
19:30
So, that's something that's really important
19:32
and one of my values in coming back
19:33
to the ministry, is the truth of my grandparents'
19:37
message will never go away.
19:39
Because the truth sets people free.
19:40
And so, that's really important
19:42
in these times of change.
19:43
Rachel: Yeah, and the reality is it's
19:45
like we don't need to water anything down,
19:47
you know?
19:48
It's like, there's this whole
19:50
discussion of, like, we gotta love everybody.
19:51
But it's like, are you actually
19:53
truly loving someone if you're not sharing with them,
19:57
like, how the thing that they're doing
19:59
is actually the thing that's keeping them in bondage.
20:01
Courtney: I sit under a pastor
20:03
that is just cutthroat and I'm just like,
20:04
how does he get away with some of this stuff?
20:06
But it's because people keep coming back
20:08
because the fruit of their life is changing.
20:10
So, it's like, if you-- and I'm not saying
20:12
everyone needs to be cutthroat, there's a body,
20:14
and there's arms, and legs, and different pastors
20:15
for different reasons.
20:17
But in my experience, in coming from L.A.
20:20
where people are so scared to say anything,
20:22
to hurt anyone's feelings, and coming back
20:25
and seeing the fruit of people's
20:26
lives change so much, that should be the goal.
20:29
Cindy: He also doesn't care what people think about it.
20:32
Kelly: And I-- when we get to caring
20:34
about what we-- people think about us
20:37
or we're changing what we're presenting
20:39
so people will look at us differently,
20:42
that's a sure sign that we're off.
20:44
It doesn't take long to get back on track
20:47
with the Lord.
20:48
It's just, you know, turn back to him.
20:50
Rachel: Well, talk a little bit about that,
20:52
because there's so many people I feel like
20:53
that feel disqualified because they've
20:56
made a mistake or they've gone
20:57
through something hard.
20:59
And they feel like that is maybe
21:01
preventing them from receiving
21:03
the inheritance that the Lord has for them.
21:05
But that's not true, is it?
21:07
Kelly: It's not true.
21:08
It's in fact-- but, I mean, let's just, again,
21:12
I like to normalize things.
21:13
Satan's always trying to disqualify all of us
21:16
and talk us into that for whatever reason
21:18
or another.
21:19
He's been trying to disqualify this ministry,
21:21
our ministry, you know, trying to talk people
21:24
into canceling us, canceling you.
21:26
He's tried to talk us into canceling
21:28
each other, hasn't he?
21:29
People say, "Oh, you shouldn't have
21:31
Kenneth Copeland on there.
21:32
Oh, you shouldn't be on Daystar."
21:34
That thought occurred to me a while ago.
21:36
I didn't know if I'd have a chance to share it,
21:38
but I heard the Lord say, "If you'll just
21:40
keep talking about me, then people will change,
21:46
and they'll grow."
21:47
It's not our job to care what they think
21:50
about you, or think about me, or think about Kenneth
21:53
and Gloria, your parents, or even where we miss it,
21:56
even where we've made mistakes, because I don't
21:58
think any of us can say we haven't,
22:00
and we absolutely will.
22:02
Rachel: Because no one's perfect, only Jesus is perfect.
22:04
And I think that's so good because it's--
22:06
to me it's like that analogy.
22:07
It's like crows will peck on the back of eagles' necks,
22:10
and there's really nothing that they can do.
22:12
So, all that they can do is fly higher.
22:14
And they actually have-- they have a larger
22:17
lung capacity.
22:18
And so, the eagles literally just,
22:19
like, fly higher until they get so high
22:22
that the crow runs out of oxygen
22:24
and literally falls off their back.
22:26
And to me, in this season the Lord
22:27
has said to me, he's like, "You have to fly higher.
22:29
You just have to stay focused on what I've called you
22:32
to do, where I'm wanting to bring Daystar,
22:34
the people's lives that I'm trying to impact
22:36
and people's lives that I'm trying to change."
22:39
And it's like, we can't get stuck down here.
22:43
Kelly: I do love that it's an opportunity
22:45
for us to-- I've had a lot of
22:48
life-changing moments that I had to go to the Lord.
22:51
There was no one else to help me, you know,
22:55
in the middle of divorce.
22:57
And then the last time it was very refining.
23:02
But the last time, the last divorce,
23:04
and I said before, like, it's not only
23:07
was my last one, I will never have another one.
23:10
I'm declaring it, I won't.
23:11
It's not ever gonna happen.
23:13
And I'm not married, so I have a lot of power
23:16
to hold that promise true with the Lord.
23:17
But-- or the death of my grandson.
23:22
Any of the-- those things were
23:24
very hurtful and very ref-- but yet because I was
23:29
in the mode of turning to the Lord as my shepherd--
23:34
in fact, I had gone so deep with him
23:37
on that divorce that when my grandson died
23:40
when he was two, he drowned.
23:43
And he--or three, he was almost three.
23:46
When he drowned, that was just, I mean,
23:50
we all were walking very tightly with the Lord.
23:53
It wasn't like we had to try to find a place
23:55
to come back.
23:56
It just was so tight with him, like,
23:58
he ushered us through the entire thing.
24:01
But it was still very refining to me.
24:04
And to know I don't ever wanna go
24:07
through something like that to need to be refined.
24:10
Not that God did it, and I'm-- if you're in something,
24:13
let him, get with him, he will heal you,
24:15
he will refine you.
24:16
You'll come out with a power you didn't have.
24:19
But you could also be refined in trouble at work,
24:23
or in a fight with your children,
24:25
or your brother, or your dad, or you can be refined
24:29
in a moment because Jesus says,
24:31
"Hey, look how you talk to that person.
24:34
Let me take you deeper into why you got mad at that,"
24:37
or whatever.
24:38
He can refine us in any moment
24:40
if we present ourselves for that walk.
24:43
So, if we're in ministry, I think he's refining us
24:47
in the midst of all these things.
24:48
He can refine me because some other ministry
24:51
is going through something.
24:52
And I can go, "Lord, talk to me about that."
24:55
Not about them, about me.
24:58
And if we are willing to walk through refinement
25:01
with him, we'll get it in a lot easier ways
25:04
than the trouble that we could be facing
25:07
that people are being-- exposure's here.
25:12
Like, you can do that with the Lord
25:13
or you can be exposed by somebody on YouTube.
25:16
Really, that does not end your ministry,
25:19
it does not end your life.
25:20
There's nothing here that can end that.
25:23
There's no disqualification that could come.
25:26
If you have to be-- if God restores you
25:28
and you fell in ministry and he restores you,
25:32
ministry may not look like it used to.
25:34
Ministry is what you do that God tells you to do.
25:37
The saints are supposed to be doing
25:39
the bulk of the ministry right now.
25:42
And we've been so selfish as pastors
25:44
and preachers and teachers to hold
25:46
that as we're the ones that do the ministry.
25:48
But I just wanna encourage everybody, like,
25:51
fly with Jesus.
25:52
Go do what he said to do today.
25:54
Rachel: Yeah, that's so good.
25:55
And I love-- one of the things I love
25:56
about you, you've always been so transparent
25:58
and vulnerable and not hiding
26:00
any of the struggles that you walked through.
26:02
And I think that's so good because when people
26:03
authentically share their story,
26:06
other people find freedom.
26:09
But you have gone through divorce,
26:10
and for a lot of people in the church,
26:13
that's like wearing the like letter, you know,
26:16
the scarlet A or whatever on your shoulder,
26:19
the scarlet D, however they say it,
26:22
I don't know what the--
26:23
Kelly: Not the A.
26:24
Rachel: Not the A. Let me say that again.
26:26
Kelly: But that is the case for some people,
26:27
but it's not any different.
26:28
Rachel: Let me say it again, okay.
26:30
So, especially for you being in ministry,
26:32
going through divorce, that's something
26:33
that often has, you know, could carry a lot of shame.
26:36
How did you go through that and how was
26:39
that, especially being like on a platform
26:41
with everybody's opinions and walking through
26:44
so much grief and heartache yourself?
26:46
Kelly: Well, I-- with my-- I was married
26:50
for almost 20 years.
26:52
And I never thought we would ever get a divorce.
26:55
And when that happened, it was heartbreaking,
26:58
but yet I found it not difficult to forgive
27:03
and I found it not difficult to move on.
27:05
Now, I know that was the grace of God.
27:07
I forgave, I felt-- now I wish I had
27:11
a refined way back then, you know, because it
27:13
might have saved some trouble.
27:14
But I could genuinely say the Lord told me one time
27:18
to call and apologize.
27:20
And I said, "Lord, for what?"
27:24
Because I felt so wounded.
27:26
And I said I-- what-- I was so hurt.
27:30
And he said-- I said it was so much worse,
27:33
and he wanted me to apologize for something
27:34
that I felt was minor.
27:36
And he said, "But that's if you have a scale."
27:41
He said, "Can I not take that plate
27:44
off of your side of the scale and put it
27:45
in front of you and say I need you to deal
27:47
with this?"
27:48
And that day I said, "Yes, you can, every day,
27:52
all day."
27:54
And it really-- I didn't realize it then,
27:55
but that was an invitation to him to really
27:57
refine my heart.
27:59
And I cannot find any regret for what I've been through
28:03
because of my walk with him.
28:06
That he took care of things that were ancient in my life.
28:08
Like, from when I was little, he would take me back there
28:11
and help me get rid of it.
28:12
And that's where the freedom has come in my life.
28:15
So, walking with him is how I handle it.
28:19
Nobody else can say if I'm qualified to minister.
28:22
If I'm doing what the Lord says,
28:24
and it really only matters what he thinks,
28:26
if there's one person in the audience,
28:28
if I'm helping one person, two people, three people,
28:30
ten people be free, I don't really care about that.
28:34
I told him, I said, "I don't care
28:35
if my ministry is in the back office
28:38
or on a television set or--" when I got free of that,
28:42
because that's a real temptation.
28:43
The microphone has-- is a loud voice
28:46
until you just command it away from you
28:48
and the Lord delivers you from it,
28:49
I think, if you grow up in these things
28:52
and you feel like the microphone
28:53
makes you somebody.
28:55
Now that's a lie.
28:56
And finding out the truth of that is
28:58
the most freeing thing.
28:59
So, I can really found a way in him to let him build me,
29:04
move me, set me up in a ministry that looks
29:08
like he wants it to do-- look like.
29:10
Cindy: And you're more effective
29:12
by what you've been through as well because you
29:14
have understanding and empathy for people
29:17
who have been through divorce
29:18
or the death of a grandson.
29:20
I mean, that has to be so difficult,
29:23
but you can see that, I'm sure,
29:25
and then sense that in someone else.
29:27
Kelly: Well, I won a battle. Cindy: Sure.
29:29
Kelly: And when you win, you can share
29:31
if you're willing to just not be the story
29:34
about you, but the story is about Jesus.
29:37
If the story is always about Jesus,
29:38
then who can say a word against that?
29:44
Rachel: What would you say to someone right
29:45
now that's watching, maybe they're going
29:48
through a hard time and they don't know the Lord
29:50
as their Savior, and maybe they wanna
29:52
invite him into their lives, what would you say?
29:56
Kelly: I would tell you this is an invitation
29:58
to you if you've known the Lord even,
30:00
or you don't know the Lord, or you-- we all wanna--
30:02
need to know him deeper, so let's all just ask him,
30:06
Lord Jesus, come into my heart, my mind,
30:11
my will, my emotions, my body, recreate
30:15
my spirit, come inside my spirit and live in me.
30:20
Take my life, do what you wanna do
30:23
with it today.
30:24
I give it to you in Jesus's name.
30:26
And receive what he did for you.
30:29
Receive life with him.
30:32
It doesn't have to be a complicated prayer.
30:33
My mother genuinely only prayed, "Take my life
30:37
and do something with it."
30:39
So, it's not a religious thing.
30:41
So, just ask him today, say, "Lord, take my life,
30:46
all of me."
30:47
I didn't give him my mind, will, and emotions
30:49
till later in my life.
30:50
I didn't know how to do that, but all I had to do
30:52
to start that was start a conversation
30:54
with him and say, "Lord, what about this?
30:57
Why did I get angry?
30:58
Why did I blow up at so and so?
31:01
What is wrong with my marriage?
31:03
What is wrong with me?"
31:04
That's a great place to start,
31:05
and he will answer you, and it'll be a--probably
31:08
a years-long journey, and I'm still walking.
31:12
Rachel: We all are still walking that out,
31:13
but it's the greatest prayer that you could ever pray.
31:15
And Courtney, it really is that simple.
31:18
How has praying that prayer changed your life?
31:20
Courtney: When I heard my aunt Kelly
31:23
tell me what she had been through on the other side
31:25
of her testimony for the first time,
31:26
she said, "I found myself on the floor
31:28
and I realized Jesus is not unfamiliar
31:31
with the floor."
31:33
And the prayer that I wanna encourage you
31:36
to pray, like she said in my grandmother's
31:38
prayer, "God, take my life, do something with it.
31:43
I receive you today as my Lord and Savior."
31:46
And then make a decision to walk that life out.
31:50
Listen to him in the moments.
31:51
My grandfather has been talking about, you know,
31:54
if you don't know how to hear from God,
31:56
start with the little things, "Lord, what shirt
31:58
should I wear today?
32:00
What socks should I wear?"
32:01
And he says, you know, you hold them up to your--
32:03
just hold and you just listen.
32:04
He's so cute when he gives his example.
32:06
But he'll just hold his socks up to his chest
32:08
and he'll say, "Which pair do you want me
32:11
to wear today?"
32:12
Because if you can learn to trust God
32:13
as your Savior, which feels really big,
32:16
but if you can learn to trust them with
32:17
the little things, you can grow into
32:19
the bigger things when you have a crisis
32:21
or you need God as your source,
32:23
you can remember that, "You've taken my life,
32:25
you're doing something with it," and it starts
32:27
by just obeying the next step.
32:30
Cindy: And, you know, I heard that word
32:31
from Sheila Walsh, who told her testimony.
32:35
And I just bawled all the way through it.
32:38
You can go find that and listen to it.
32:40
It-- she met the Lord on the floor
32:42
in an insane asylum after sitting
32:44
on an interview couch that morning.
32:47
So, we can fall far, but we can't fall away
32:50
from Jesus.
32:51
He's, like, he's there. But I learned that.
32:54
So, I just wanted to encourage people,
32:55
listen to the teachers, listen to the preachers,
32:58
listen to the testimonies, then you're exposed
33:00
to what God can do in your life.
33:02
Listening to people preach the Word,
33:04
asking him to send you people to listen to that you need
33:06
to hear.
33:08
He can anoint YouTube to bring you the right people.
33:11
I know that by experience.
33:12
You just ask, we just have to ask.
33:14
Rachel: It's really just that simple.
33:15
The Lord is drawing you today, and I hope
33:18
that you've been so encouraged.
33:19
And it's really about a personal
33:21
relationship with him.
33:22
It's not about a religion.
33:23
It's not about a set of rules.
33:25
It's really just simply, like Courtney said,
33:27
learning to know Jesus as your Father.
33:29
And as we close, I just want you to remember
33:31
that a lasting legacy, it begins with
33:33
that personal relationship with Jesus.
33:34
And no matter where you've been
33:37
or what mistakes you've made,
33:38
they don't disqualify you from the calling God
33:41
has placed on your life.
33:42
It's by his grace that as you trust him,
33:45
he'll be faithful to use your story
33:47
to impact generations to come.
33:49
And if you need prayer today, please call
33:51
that toll-free number on your screen, 1-800-329-0029.
33:54
Our prayer partners are standing by ready
33:57
to pray and believe with you for whatever it
34:00
is you might be going through.
34:01
And I wanna thank Kelly and Courtney for
34:03
joining us today.
34:04
For more, you can visit them online at KCM.org.
34:07
As always, make sure to follow us on social media,
34:09
subscribe on YouTube, and listen
34:12
to the podcast wherever you stream.
34:13
Thank you so much for joining us.
34:15
Until next time, bye-bye for today.
34:19
female announcer: This episode honors the legacy of our late
34:22
president, Joni Lamb.
34:24
Until next time, bye-bye for today.