Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 221 - Steve Tregay - Managing General Partner Mission Biocapital

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Episode 221 - Steve Tregay - Managing General Partner Mission Biocapital · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
Welcome back to another episode of the Biohub and Avetics
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podcast. Today I'm joined by Steve
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Tregay, managing general Partner at Mission Biocapital.
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Steve has built his career across biotech, pharma, and VC.
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He founded and LED Former Therapeutics, held leadership
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roles at Novartis, and today he helped create and invest in some
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of the industry's most exciting early stage biotech companies
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through Mission Biocapital. In this conversation, we
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discussed the story behind Former what separates great
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biotech companies from the rest, how Mission Biocapital
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approaches company creation, and the role big pharma plays in
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today's innovation ecosystem. Steve, it's a pleasure to have
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you. How are you?
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Doing great and happy to be here.
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Yes, it's really good to have you on.
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Honestly, I want to start with you and your career because it's
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been pretty varied from, you know, research, pharma, all of
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that so to now building and venture capital.
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Looking back, what what were the defining moments that ultimately
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LED you to to where you are now? Yeah.
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I mean, I think, you know, this is something that a lot of
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people ask me is, you know, as you look back in your career,
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you realize it was defined by a series of opportunities and
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where those opportunities kind of took you aren't really things
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that you necessarily planned. I did my graduate work in
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organic chemistry at Harvard. In the end, decided I really
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like more of the business side, had a great chance to array
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Biopharma to kind of start cutting my teeth in that space.
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The opportunity to come to Novartis, never at the time when
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Marc Fishman was heading research and really thinking
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about how a large pharmaceutical company could think about
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innovation and really headquartering it was one of the
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first big pharma to really put a big stamp on the Kendall Square
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ecosystem was just an amazing opportunity.
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And that kind of led to Forma and and then obviously that kind
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of experience together with building the lab ecosystem with
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Lab Central really led to this. So, you know, a series of unique
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decisions, but ones that kind of fell in my lap at the right
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time, I guess. Yeah.
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And I think some, some of them would have been you know pretty
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big plunges as well. Like we talked about Forma, you
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know that that's a company that you founded, Co founded that
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that's not like a small decision to go out and do that.
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Well, especially, yeah, the story I always like to tell
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about Forma was, you know, we, you know, I was at the Novartis
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Venture Fund at the time and really thinking about, you know,
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what innovation would look like. But this was O 8 and O 9 and the
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market was definitely tough. So it was definitely an all in
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decision to kind of go forth. But it was something I really
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believed in. And I think that's something
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that's really essential to entrepreneurship is to, you
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know, find something you're really passionate about, that
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you believe you can make a difference and really advance
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that. And so that was something I was
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really excited about. It was a big, big leap, but it
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was something that in the end turned out to be successful.
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That that experience must have been interesting as well.
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Then going back into VC, what did building Former teach you
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about what shapes the way you evaluate founders and new
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opportunities today? Yeah.
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I guess one thing is I always think about, you know, are you
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really solving, you know, a large unmet need, right.
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And that and that can be from a technological perspective,
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obviously from a patient perspective and really make sure
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what you're building is something that the market really
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needs and that you have a differentiated approach to that.
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And then the second thing that I think was really something I'm
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really proud about with Forma was the team that we built was
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just absolutely amazing. They would run through walls
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that, you know, what they can do is just absolutely amazing.
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So I'm always a big fan of really looking for those great
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entrepreneurs that can build great teams and realize that
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drug discovery is challenging where the science may take you,
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you know, may end up in very different places.
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I didn't set out to build a sickle cell company when we
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started, but that's ultimately where we found ourselves.
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So you need great teams that can really follow the science and
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make a big impact. And so it's something I
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certainly learned at form of, but it's something I, I try to
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look for in the companies that I'm evaluating for investment.
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So when you're looking at these entrepreneurs, then like what,
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what sort of qualities, experience are you looking for?
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Well, 11 interesting thing, you know, getting to a little bit of
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the lab network, right? Having this lab network where
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you're surrounded by other entrepreneurs in a densely, you
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know, location, that really gives you a great chance to
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invest in earlier stage entrepreneurs.
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I mean, it's great to have a serial entrepreneur.
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We love that. We love to invest in them.
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We see them come through the labs, you know, multiple times,
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but at the same time, everyone has to be a first time
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entrepreneur. So you you can't just rely on
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kind of seasoned entrepreneurs. And so I think you're really
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looking for that, that passion, that leadership, that ability to
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really reduce a very complex, challenging situation of sorting
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out the biology, advancing a program towards the clinic, have
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that ability to reduce that down to a series of manageable steps.
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It can seem a little overwhelming to start with a
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company that's, you know, during early stage drug discovery and
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imagine yourself as a clinical stage company.
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But at the same time you need to be able to break that down into
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manageable steps and really then execute against that.
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So we're looking for people who can really kind of execute and
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have a track record at doing that maybe in different
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contexts, whether it be, you know, in their graduate career
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or maybe in other roles that they've had.
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Can they really execute in that environment?
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So you look at them and going is this the kind of person who can
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go out and fundraise? You can also drive science.
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You can be like, you can be a big driver for why overtop
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people should join this business, all of those things.
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Yeah. I think one thing to keep in
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mind is so, yes. But at the same time, I think we
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also believe or certainly I believe personally in kind of
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this concept of tours of duty, if you're familiar with that,
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where you need the right person at the right time for the
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company. And at at the end of the day,
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you don't need to run the company forever.
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I didn't run Forma forever, frankly took over for me and did
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an amazing job in taking the company public and ultimately to
6:16
its acquisition. And he was the right person for
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a late stage company with you know, multiple clinical assets,
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right. And so you're looking for the
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person who can bridge that company for the next couple
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years and maybe they transition into a different role in within
6:31
the company, or maybe they're very passionate about that zero
6:34
to 1, right, that getting that company up and going and they
6:37
want to go back and do that again.
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And so I think, you know, looking at the right skills that
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are needed by the company. So when you're an early stage
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company, there's a high premium on, you know, being able to
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execute on the science to really advance that going forward to
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advance, you know, the drug discovery efforts, fundraising
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is important, but on a very different scale than say, you
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know, a company that's going to go public, raise hundreds of
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millions of dollars in a public environment.
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You you may not necessarily need those skill sets in the person
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day one. And you can either surround
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yourself with great people or you can, you know, look to the
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ultimately transition those roles.
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You know, so I think really how you think about building
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companies over time, you, you need to think about what the
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needs are of the business at the time.
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And does that individual have the right skill sets?
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I think back to your question around and they need to at at
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all times, they need to be able to recruit and motivate great
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people because you're going to need them in different roles at
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different times. But you need to be able to
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recruit people and really speak passionately about that vision,
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right? That what that reason to believe
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as to why you're going to succeed, right?
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You know, we're in a challenging business.
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You need that. You know, I always joke that the
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most important skill of ACEO is that irrational belief you'll
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succeed against all odds, right? Because it's not an easy
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business. It's easy to kind of find 20
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reasons it's not going to work, but what you really care about
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is the one reason it will work. Yeah, Yeah, that makes sense.
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I think you raised a really interesting point where it's
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like, we'll just know where where you're best.
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There are a couple of people who complement that skill set too,
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right? I mean, I think, you know, you
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don't need to be great at everything, but if you can
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attract whether it be great board members, great, you know,
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C-Suite executives to really complement your skills and look
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at what your where your strengths are and where you're
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not. I mean, at Forma, we had an
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amazing board. We had Peter Worth who's the
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general counsel of Genzyme, Marsha Fenucci, who's the CFO of
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Millennium, you know, Paolo Paletti who is head of GSK
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Oncology, Tim Claxon who is head of very AD, you know, drug
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discover, you know, head of R&D. You know, they were great
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individuals. They're amazing to work with.
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They complemented, you know, areas that I didn't have in
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terms of experience and skill set.
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We we're all aligned with the vision of making form a grade.
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And so, you know, that was always amazing.
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You know, Rob Cerisky, who is my chief business officer, was an
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amazing, you know, at, at landing the deals and, and
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really being, you know, formal wouldn't be what it was without
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people like Rob. And so you know that building
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those teams around you, you have to be willing to really
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understand your strengths and your weaknesses and then find
9:23
people that really bring that but are aligned with the vision,
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right? I think that's always the
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essential pieces You want. People are aligned with the the
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vision and bring those complementary skill sets to
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achieving that vision. I think that's the most
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important build, just being aware of those weaknesses and
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just plugging in those gaps around you in that expertise.
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And then especially for these first time founders who don't
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really know that just just never being so naive that you think
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you're the best person. Person to make the decision
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every time. Yeah, because I don't think your
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life will be a lot. Easier.
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Yeah, exactly, exactly. And at Mission Biocapital,
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you're, you've built a reputation around company
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creation. Really just just talk us through
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that process and and why you believe that's such an effective
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model for you guys. Yeah.
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And so one thing that we really think about is, you know, when
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we think about our lab network. So we now have 30 labs around
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the world. We're, you know, we have 600
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companies on this platform at once.
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And really what we're trying to do is enable, you know, the best
10:31
science to really win, right, create a meritocracy across the
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best ideas. And, and the way we do that is
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by really lowering the cost, you can really move into a lab,
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you're renting a bench a month at a time.
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You can really go amazingly far on very little money in, in
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those early stages. And a lot of times you need, you
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need to go from, wow, what if this works to, oh, you know,
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we're, we're now on track to showing it works.
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And by lowering that cost and doing, you know, we can talk
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more about things that we do like the platinum program.
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But the underlying principle of all of this is, you know,
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enabling great entrepreneurships, right,
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entrepreneurs. And so that really lets us, you
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know, focus in on, you know, supporting them in every way,
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right? Making sure they can execute on
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their science, make sure they're surrounded by great peers,
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right? You know, they can learn as much
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at the coffee machine as they will through any mentoring
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program because they're surrounded by other great
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entrepreneurs. And so by doing that and really
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finding those passionate entrepreneurs and giving them an
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environment that they can succeed, then that gives us an
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amazing world to choose, you know, a subset of those amazing
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entrepreneurs to invest in. And so really being first and
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foremost about how do we enable great science and enable great
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entrepreneurs and then, you know, investing just kind of is
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the natural, you know, logical conclusion to supporting that
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ecosystem. Yeah, but I, I love that model,
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especially for a profile like you who's been there and done it
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before. You can really get into the
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nitty gritty and the the scrappiness of what a start up
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is like and you know, lead these people through that.
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Yeah. And it's also important to
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recognize that, you know, venture, you know, as a business
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is kind of, you know, a power dynamic, right?
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You know, I, I remember this well pitching, you know, a
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venture firm, you know, in the 50th floor in Midtown Manhattan
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in a giant boardroom, you kind of know who has the money and
12:30
who's begging for money. But it's hard to, you have to
12:33
recognize that without entrepreneurs, money has nowhere
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to go, right? It has no great ideas to, to
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invest in. And so, you know, a lot of times
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we like to say we start by solving, you know, getting to
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know these entrepreneurs by solving problems they have, you
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know, welcoming them into a lab somewhere in the world that now
12:52
they can be fully operational. Making sure they have
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introductions to colleagues around, you know, the labs,
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making sure they have intros to pharmaceutical companies to get
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that early input on maybe where to take that the product.
13:05
You know, we start essentially as their friends, right?
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And then it grows to being a relationship around investing.
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And I I like that power, you know, leveling the playing
13:14
field. They bring something that we
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need, which is great ideas and we bring something they need,
13:19
which is capital, right? And and that really should be
13:21
viewed as a partnership, not necessarily as kind of a a power
13:26
dynamic of who has money and you know, who needs money, right?
13:29
And by doing that, I think it really creates a great ecosystem
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and it creates, you know, what we like to see is kind of these
13:35
self fulfilling prophecies, these companies that are going
13:38
to be successful. So talking a little bit about
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our platinum program, right? It's half $1,000,000 a bench
13:43
anywhere in the world. We want to inspire people to
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build companies. You don't even have to
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incorporate when you apply. We'll provide, you know, legal
13:50
support so you can get incorporated, so you can take
13:53
our money, right? You know, we'll provide drug
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discovery capabilities. We have pharma partners who will
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provide expertise and guidance on where to take your program to
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really, you know, say, hey, it's not so scary to found a company.
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You'll be surrounded by other people.
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Half, $1,000,000. It gives you a year to see if
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this is going to work. You know, why not give it a try?
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You know, last year, we just wrapped up this a few weeks ago,
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we got 480 applications. Those companies, we've done this
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now for a couple years are out fundraising their peers by 4X,
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right? Why?
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Because they're in a great environment, they're getting
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great feedback. We're selecting the very best
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companies and really trying to inspire people to build
14:32
companies. So it's, it's just a totally
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different way of thinking about, you know, how we support
14:37
entrepreneurs. And you got to remember there's,
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there's always got to be an entrepreneur in the equation
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somewhere, somebody who's willing, you know, and this is
14:43
what we'd like to bet on. Somebody who's, you know, got a
14:46
great academic pedigree, maybe done a company before, maybe
14:49
not, maybe they're a first time entrepreneur, but they are
14:52
willing to bet that whatever they're invested, you know what
14:55
they're they're investing their livelihood in this.
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They're giving up a job at a big pharma or another biotech or an
15:01
academic career to chase their dream to follow that science.
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We've got to accept that, as you know, that's a real convict
15:09
level of conviction. And we just want to put them in
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an environment where that conviction can translate to
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success. And I think, you know, looking
15:16
at things like the Platinum program, we've seen, you know,
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we've done about 24 of these already.
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You know, they've gone on to raise $220 million, right?
15:26
You know, and these are super early seeds, right?
15:28
These are the earliest stages ideas, but at the same time I
15:31
think that will be the next generation and especially in
15:34
today's market environment where we have everyone focusing kind
15:37
of late. I think it's important to
15:39
continue to support the innovation ecosystem because we
15:41
don't want to wake up three years from now and realize the
15:44
only place we're finding great ideas is by, you know, in
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licensing assets from China at ADC stage.
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You know, that could be a great path to to value creation.
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But I think there's lots of great science around in the
15:56
world that we need to make sure sees the light of day in this
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more challenging environment. I couldn't agree more.
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I couldn't agree more. I think you you, you touched on
16:07
it a little bit there, but like the early stage biotech
16:11
ecosystem has changed a lot over the last year.
16:14
You know, you, you, you talked about the interest whether just
16:17
moving further along into the process, into the clinic.
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What? What do you think founders need
16:23
today that they perhaps didn't need?
16:24
10 years yet. Yeah, great question.
16:27
So, yeah, what we're seeing is, you know, in a in a market where
16:31
early stage financing risk isn't necessarily being rewarded,
16:35
we're not seeing big step UPS as we go into the next rounds.
16:38
And as we look at the one element that venture capital
16:42
control, it can control his financing risk.
16:45
Meaning, you know, if the science works great and you
16:47
can't finance the company to say run a clinical trials, you know,
16:52
then it doesn't matter the science work.
16:53
If you can't finance it right now, we can't control the
16:56
science, we can't control the financing risk.
16:58
So what that shifts to and it from an outsider looking in
17:03
seems to be somewhat counterintuitive is in a risk
17:06
averse environment for early stage investing, we're seeing
17:09
bigger rounds. The reason for that is of course
17:12
they're tranche. So scientifically we're still
17:14
only putting money in to de risk the science and kind of
17:17
increments, but we know the money is around the table.
17:21
So that means it's that much harder to raise money for an
17:24
early stage round if you need to fund later and later.
17:27
It also puts a bigger demand on the entrepreneurs because, you
17:31
know, normally it used to be, you know, what's your path to a
17:34
development candidate? Well, now it's what's your path
17:37
to a development candidate And oh, by the way, what's your
17:39
clinical indication? How much is it going to cost and
17:42
how fast can you get to clinical proof of concept?
17:44
That's a lot more expertise. And again, if your expertise is
17:47
in that steeped in the biology of that target, you may not
17:51
have, you know, that perfect clinical indication.
17:54
So companies are having to kind of grow up to present, you know,
17:59
a much more comprehensive, intensive story of their journey
18:03
than they've ever had to in the past, right.
18:05
In the past, it was kind of, and we'll figure out where we're
18:07
going to take it down the road. And so that's where
18:09
relationships with pharma really early on can be really critical.
18:13
But importantly, pharma's also, you know, continues to be
18:17
externally focused for innovation into their pipeline,
18:20
which is great. They have a lot of dry powder.
18:22
They have patent expiries going off patent that are bigger and
18:26
bigger, you know, drugs. So they have a bigger and bigger
18:29
hole to fill. So it's a really nice
18:31
relationship and what's great is a lot of these partners, and
18:34
many of them are, have close relationships with their labs or
18:37
with Mission Bio Capital, you know, are doing that to to
18:41
really make sure that they're helping create the future that
18:44
they want to partake it. You know, they'll give you that
18:46
advice early on of indications that would be of high interest
18:50
to them. Why?
18:51
Because they're hoping that you might develop a drug that meets
18:54
a, a niche that they're very going to be very excited to see.
18:57
So getting to that early clinical proof of concept is now
19:00
almost a requirement or at least knowing where you're going to
19:03
go. Whereas before I think we're
19:05
willing to kind of build, you know, build it and we'll, we'll
19:08
figure out what to do with it later.
19:10
I think we're much more laser laser focused on that
19:13
especially, you know, it might be a new platform, but the new
19:16
platform has to have applications and and line of
19:19
sight to clinical proof of concept, not just platform proof
19:23
of concept, for example. Yeah, I mean you, I mean talk
19:27
about that big far apart as well, just how pivotal they are
19:30
in biosec innovation. Yeah, it's great.
19:34
I mean, they're terrific partners across the lab
19:38
ecosystem. You know, they're sponsors in
19:40
the lab network, They're giving out golden tickets, you know, a
19:43
free bench. They're engaged.
19:45
Almost all of them have corporate venture arms of some
19:48
form, right. So they're participating in
19:50
these rounds. I, I can't think of a deal we've
19:53
done that hasn't had at least one, if not 3 or 4 different
19:56
corporate venture investors. So they're really playing very
20:00
actively in the ecosystem to make sure that the ecosystem
20:05
continues to thrive and has the right feedback.
20:07
They're very willing to meet with companies early on,
20:11
establish that relationship, give that early advice and then
20:15
continue to follow on. You know, equity investing is a
20:18
great tool for them to get to know and get closer to that
20:21
company, be involved at the board level in very constructive
20:25
ways. So you know they're.
20:27
Making sure that you're fully engaged.
20:29
And so one thing that's important for us is if you're in
20:33
Kendall Square like I am, or San Francisco, you know, in Kendall
20:36
Square, you're surrounded by every big pharma has a head, you
20:39
know, has a research presence here.
20:41
But if you're in our labs around the world, whether that be up,
20:45
you know, in the US, Europe, Canada, now, you know, bringing
20:49
those relationships to pharma, you're a little more distant.
20:52
But again, participating in investor days and things like
20:55
that, that we run across the lab network gives a chance for the
20:59
farmers to build the relationships with these
21:01
companies and geographies. They may not be visiting every
21:04
day 'cause it's not their home, you know, geography.
21:07
But at the same time, to find those companies that may become
21:10
the next great acquisition for them and bring an important, you
21:14
know, asset or more or two into the pipeline.
21:16
And so, you know, making sure that we're thinking about this
21:19
as a global innovation ecosystem and finding efficient ways for
21:23
people to interact. So when we think about, you
21:25
know, venture, it's a local business, it's an entrepreneur
21:28
building a company locally, but it needs to compete on a global
21:31
stage. And so by giving, you know,
21:34
visibility to the farmers to this global stage, but also for
21:38
the entrepreneurs, you know, just because you're the best
21:41
idea in Toronto, you need to be the best idea in the world,
21:44
right? And so making sure that you've
21:47
got that feedback of what will it take to be the best idea in
21:50
the world. Because the science, you know,
21:53
there's amazing science around the world.
21:55
It just needs to compete on that global stage.
21:57
And the sooner you know what it's going to take to compete on
21:59
that global stage, the better you can run the experiments to
22:03
inform that differentiation. Yeah, super important.
22:08
That's so, so important. How do you see Big Pharma's role
22:12
potentially changing over like the next 5-10 years?
22:15
Do you think they'll be pretty consistent in the way they work
22:17
or? Yeah.
22:18
I think increasingly, you know, we've really seen an evolution,
22:22
you know, of, you know, accessing innovation across both
22:27
internal and external. R and DI think that will
22:29
continue to accelerate. I think what they're realizing,
22:33
you know, is, you know that, you know, there's so much innovation
22:37
that's occurring. There's no way that a pharma can
22:40
execute on all that innovation simultaneously.
22:44
And by having, you know, hundreds and hundreds of
22:46
companies, right, There's 600 companies that are lab network
22:49
doing credibly innovative science.
22:51
There's no way a pharma could replicate that diversity of
22:54
biology, but for them to really be able to pick and choose and
22:57
play active, I think this will continue to to do that.
23:01
I think there's groups that are incredibly innovative on how
23:05
they're doing that and collaborating early, leveraging
23:07
even their own internal capabilities.
23:09
For example, Lilly's a good example of that.
23:13
You know, so those are great opportunities.
23:15
I think we'll continue to see that evolve over time in ways
23:19
where we're just increasingly more an interdependent
23:22
ecosystem. You know, from a biotech
23:24
perspective, it never makes sense to you know, launch a drug
23:28
in 180 countries, right? That's just an infrastructure
23:31
that for a single asset is never justified.
23:33
So I think this logical hand off, I think the one thing that
23:37
companies and as we're getting more sophisticated about early
23:40
clinical proof of concept, companies are doing a better and
23:44
better job of getting to that clinical proof of concept.
23:47
And then thinking about a pharma partnership that's one that can
23:51
then bring a global development perspective, a global launch,
23:55
global commercialization. But getting to that early
23:58
clinical proof of concept can be really critically important
24:02
because it gives that pharma partners or partners that are
24:05
evaluating the opportunity a real visibility into that line
24:10
of sight to what could be a commercial product.
24:12
They understand what indications, what type of
24:15
efficacy they might be able to expect.
24:17
So they can really envision that in their pipeline.
24:20
And you know, and as they're looking at managing their loss
24:23
of exclusivity and remember these are bigger and bigger
24:26
drugs that we're seeing, right? You know, IO drugs going, going
24:31
off patent, you know, when the GLP ones go off patent, right?
24:34
Those are going to be massive, you know, things that need to be
24:37
filled. So I think one thing we're also
24:39
seeing is creativity from pharma looking at white spaces.
24:43
They got large unmet medical needs that haven't been
24:46
addressed. So I think that's a great
24:47
opportunity as we continue to move the innovation forward for
24:52
the diseases that need, you know, still need better
24:55
solutions. And as those drugs go off
24:57
patent, those become available, you know as low cost generics
25:02
and we don't need to solve those problems again, right,
25:04
cholesterol lowering, right? We don't need to go solve early
25:07
stage, you know, you know, find new targets and cholesterol
25:11
lowering, we have great drugs for that.
25:12
So we can focus on more of the refractory patient populations,
25:15
for example. Yeah, yeah, it's exciting.
25:19
I think the future is definitely bright.
25:22
You know, biotech sort of came through a harder spell, but
25:27
wait. When you look at the public
25:29
markets, the one thing I would say is if you're really focused
25:33
in on that innovation, pharma is kind of unrelenting in their
25:39
need for new assets in their pipeline because of this loss of
25:43
exclusivity, right? I mean, there's a window where
25:45
they derive their profits and then there's a window where they
25:49
need to find the next big blockbuster.
25:52
So if you focus in on delivering that kind of value, sure, if the
25:57
public markets are available, then great, you can take
25:59
advantage of that. But if you're only building your
26:02
companies to be kind of public company value drivers, that can
26:06
be challenging because as we've seen the markets come and go,
26:09
there's periods of markets look pretty good right now, but
26:12
obviously we've come through an extended period of time where
26:15
they didn't. And but through that period,
26:17
pharma has been incredibly active.
26:19
So I think there's always, if you build towards that end
26:22
point, you'll always have a path to liquidity whether there's
26:25
public markets or not. And that's how we really think
26:28
about building companies in this, in, you know, in markets
26:31
where we may or may not see a public opportunity.
26:34
We always make sure that we have a path to liquidity in the
26:37
absence of a public market and take advantage of it if it makes
26:41
sense to at the time. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
26:45
I know. That brings us to our final
26:47
question. See, which is the one I ask
26:50
every one of our guests. If you could have dinner with
26:53
any scientist to renovate a past or present, who would it be and
26:56
why? Well, so with Forma, I had the
26:59
great chance to work with a lot of folks that had kind of grown
27:02
up in the Genzyme era, Peter Werth, Marsha Fenucci, Mike
27:06
Wizka. And it was great just hearing
27:08
kind of the, the stories of Genzyme and, and the leadership.
27:12
And I had a chance to meet Henry Chamira a few times of, of just
27:15
in that case, pioneering rare diseases.
27:17
So I think the one I would always love to go back in time
27:20
would be Bob Swanson and thinking about the formation of
27:23
Genentech. You got to imagine in that era,
27:26
biotechnology, right? The idea that we weren't going
27:29
to, we're going to create a drug that wasn't a small molecule was
27:32
completely revolutionary and, and just completely
27:35
unprecedented. So I always like the idea of,
27:38
of, of we stand on the shoulder of giants who pioneer things
27:43
that just seemed impossible. Genzyme with rare diseases,
27:46
Genentech with, you know, antibodies, those moments in
27:50
time where you were doing something that no one in the
27:53
world ever thought could be done, you know, would be the
27:56
people that I think we can learn the most from.
27:58
And we should certainly celebrate their achievements,
28:01
but also take that as inspiration for what we can do
28:04
in the future. Yeah, I love that.
28:07
Thank you so much for coming on, Steve.
28:08
It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me, this is
28:10
great fun. And look, everyone please like
28:13
and subscribe to the Bio Hub and thank you so much again, Steve.